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Speaker 4: Hey Daniel, do people ever send you their personal theories

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Speaker 4: of the universe?

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Speaker 1: Oh? Yeah, I get plenty of those.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, what do you think they're hoping for?

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Speaker 1: A lot of them want to prove Einstein was wrong?

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Speaker 4: Really game high? I guess after all these years aren't

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Speaker 4: we convinced Einstein was right.

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Speaker 1: Actually, I'm pretty convinced Einstein was wrong.

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Speaker 4: Wait, what you think you know better than Einstein.

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Speaker 1: I don't have a better theory of the universe, but

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Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure his theory general relativity is not a

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Speaker 1: correct description of nature.

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Speaker 4: Well, you should come up with your own theory then, yeah,

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Speaker 4: and then I could send it to myself and then

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Speaker 4: you can answer it on the podcast Done Nobel Prize

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Speaker 4: for the two of Us chu Ching. Hi am Moreham,

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Speaker 4: a cartoonist and the creator of PhD comics.

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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist, and I would

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Speaker 1: love if somebody out there proved Einstein wrong.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, maybe even the ghost of Einstein.

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Speaker 1: Einstein's grandchildren, son of Einstein, or daughter of Einstein. Einstein

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Speaker 1: had a pretty scandalous family situation, so I wouldn't be

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Speaker 1: surprised if some of his kids or grandkids or great

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Speaker 1: grandkids were a little grumpy at him.

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Speaker 4: Well, they definitely inherd. It a nice brand name. So

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Speaker 4: I mean, can you imagine going for a job and

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Speaker 4: putting Eisin on your resume and people are like, yeah,

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Speaker 4: he's probably not or she's not, probably not smart enough,

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Speaker 4: not likely to happen, right.

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Speaker 1: It's a lot of pressure. What if you want to

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Speaker 1: be a basketball player and your name is Einstein and

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Speaker 1: they're like, get off the core of Einstein.

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Speaker 4: Go back to your talk board there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly what did they call it? When an actor

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Speaker 1: can only get one kind of rule type cast? Right?

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Speaker 1: Like Einstein and all of his generations are all going

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Speaker 1: to be forced to be doing fundamental physics, right.

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Speaker 4: I haven't seen a lot of stand up comedians, right,

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Speaker 4: or artists named Einstein.

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Speaker 1: Well, they probably change their names, right, they have stage names,

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Speaker 1: you know, the comedian formerly known as Einstein.

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Speaker 4: I guess that would help them. But anyways, welcome to

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Speaker 4: our podcast Daniel and Jorge Explain the Universe, a production

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Speaker 4: of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: In which we make everybody out there in Einstein by

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Speaker 1: explaining to you everything that we do know about our crazy, beautiful, hot,

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Speaker 1: and wet and weird universe and everything that we don't

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Speaker 1: yet understand from the tiniest little bits of space and

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Speaker 1: how they fit together to make this incredible, emergent, bonkers,

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Speaker 1: beautiful world to the vast nature of the cosmos. How

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Speaker 1: far does it go on? What's outpassed? There will we

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Speaker 1: ever see it, we wrap up all those questions and

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Speaker 1: explain them to you.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, because it is a vast universe full of intricate

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Speaker 4: secrets and lots of wonders for us to discover hiding

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Speaker 4: and playing sight sometimes right even around our own neighborhood.

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Speaker 1: It is exactly. I look at the universe like the

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Speaker 1: biggest murder mystery or the grandest detective novel ever written.

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Speaker 1: It's like a big puzzle figuring out how does it work.

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Speaker 1: We're gathering clues and trying to narrow it down and

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Speaker 1: figure out, like what really makes the universe tick?

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Speaker 4: What does it have to be a murder mystery?

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Speaker 1: Daniel?

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Speaker 4: I feel like you just went kind of dark there,

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Speaker 4: like like somebody had to die to make the universe.

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Speaker 1: Well, you know, the universe is going to kill you, joorhe.

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Speaker 4: I'm sure it's not the universe itself, but maybe my

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Speaker 4: eating habits.

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Speaker 1: Well, I just think it adds some drama. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's always more fun to work on a mystery if

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Speaker 1: there's a body involved, I suppose. I don't know. That's

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Speaker 1: why there's that whole genre of murder mysteries, right, It's

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Speaker 1: not like you know who got gently tapped on the

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Speaker 1: head in the library with the candlestick. You know, it's

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Speaker 1: like who got killed? So, yeah, this is a big mystery.

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Speaker 1: We want to understand what is the fundamental nature of

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Speaker 1: the universe, what are the rules by which it runs?

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Speaker 1: How can we figure that out? And frankly, I'm amazed

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Speaker 1: that we really made any progress at all.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. I guess if the mystery was just word that

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Speaker 4: I put my reading glasses, that wouldn't attract a lot

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Speaker 4: of viewers there, or physicists, to be honest, yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: Or true crime novelists named Einstein.

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Speaker 4: All right, Well, we like to talk about all the

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Speaker 4: great mysteries out there on the universe, and also we

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Speaker 4: like to talk about what scientists are doing to uncover

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Speaker 4: those secrets and figure out what's really going on, because

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Speaker 4: there are a lot of interesting projects and interesting science

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Speaker 4: experiments going on right now as we speak, trying to

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Speaker 4: peer further into the universe and closer to the very

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Speaker 4: nature of matter.

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Speaker 1: That's right, because even though folks like Einstein gave us

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Speaker 1: a beautiful glimpse into how the universe might work, we

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Speaker 1: are still figuring out whether his vision is correct or not,

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Speaker 1: whether it describes the way the universe actually works, or

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Speaker 1: if it's just like a very effective approximation which from

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Speaker 1: some point of view seems to be successful in predicting

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Speaker 1: what happens in weird situations.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and so you're convinced that Einstein is wrong, you

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Speaker 4: said earlier, like you're pretty sure he's wrong, or you

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Speaker 4: think he's wrong.

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Speaker 1: I think he's got to be wrong. I mean, there's

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Speaker 1: no way general relativity is correct. Why not, Well, it

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Speaker 1: flies in the face of the nature of the universe

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Speaker 1: as we know it. We know that the universe is

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Speaker 1: quantum mechanical. We know that nothing is smooth and continuous.

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Speaker 1: But general relativity assumes that the universe is smooth, it's continuous,

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Speaker 1: that you can like slice up space and time into

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Speaker 1: infinitely small pieces, that you can know everything about the

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Speaker 1: configuration of particles, for example. It just ignores the fundamental

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Speaker 1: nature of the universe that's been revealed to us over

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Speaker 1: the last one hundred years. And that's why it breaks down.

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Speaker 1: For example, we have singularities at the hearts of black

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Speaker 1: holes and at the beginning of the universe. Those singularities

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Speaker 1: reflect a failure of the theory. So it just can't

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Speaker 1: be right and yet it works.

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Speaker 4: So darn well, well you don't think it works. But

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Speaker 4: maybe there is a singularity. I don't know, isn't that possible.

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Speaker 1: Well, we talked about this in our fun episode about singularities.

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Speaker 1: But singularity is like a mathematical oddity. It's like an infinity.

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Speaker 1: It's a failure. It's like when the theory is going,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, you know, it's not a real prediction,

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Speaker 1: Like you can't actually have infinite density. It's nonsensical.

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Speaker 4: It's like, it's like having an infinite universe, which I

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Speaker 4: hear you support as a theory.

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Speaker 1: That's true, And it certainly could be that weird mathematical

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Speaker 1: features of the universe that we dismiss as artifacts could

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Speaker 1: actually be real. Right, it wouldn't be the first time

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Speaker 1: that had happened. But it seems to me like a failure.

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Speaker 1: And also it seems to me impossible to reconcile general

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Speaker 1: relativity's view of the universe as smooth and continuous with

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Speaker 1: this quantum mechanical nature of the universe. We see that

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Speaker 1: it's discrete, we see that there are smallest bits, We

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Speaker 1: see that there is limited information. So we're desperate to

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Speaker 1: know the true story of the universe how it actually works.

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Speaker 1: But to do that, we need to see Einstein's theory fail.

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Speaker 1: We need to find a place where it's wrong.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's really hard because so far as you said,

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Speaker 4: Einstein's theory is pretty good. It's past every test with

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Speaker 4: flying colors.

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Speaker 1: It's got an A plus plus plus plus plus plus, Like,

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Speaker 1: nobody's ever seen general relativity get anything wrong. No matter

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Speaker 1: what configuration of matter or weird effects you study, or

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Speaker 1: crazy intense things going on in the distance universe like

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Speaker 1: black holes colliding, general relativity gets it spot on.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. And so there's a big question of whether or

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Speaker 4: not Einstein's theories are ultimately correct or not. And there

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Speaker 4: is one experiment right now, right above you, most likely

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Speaker 4: trying to figure that out.

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Speaker 1: That's right. We physicists are inventing more and more crazy

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Speaker 1: scenarios to try to test the details of these predictions

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Speaker 1: of general relativity, hoping to get it wrong, hoping to

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Speaker 1: find a scenario where Einstein's theory fails and forces us

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Speaker 1: to come up with another theory, or like gives us

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Speaker 1: a clue as to how to formulate that next theory.

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Speaker 4: So today on the podcast, we'll be talking about what

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Speaker 4: is frame dragging? Now, I have to say, Daniel, it

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Speaker 4: feels like a disappointing title. After all that build up.

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Speaker 4: I felt like we should have, you know, probing the

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Speaker 4: mysteries of the nature of space and time. But know

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Speaker 4: you were going with what is frame dragging?

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Speaker 1: Well, that's because frame dragging is one of the mysteries

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Speaker 1: of space and time. It's one of these bizarre effects

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Speaker 1: predicted by in our relativity that people go out to see,

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Speaker 1: like is this actually real or is it just a

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Speaker 1: mathematical artifact or was Einstein wrong?

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Speaker 4: Or it could just be that you're taking a picture

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Speaker 4: frame and dragging it across the floor. It could go

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Speaker 4: either way.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it doesn't really conjure up the gravity of the

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Speaker 1: situation if you ask me.

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Speaker 4: But coincidentally, it does have to do with gravity, right,

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Speaker 4: and Einstein's theory about how it all works.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and reference frames like this idea of where you

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Speaker 1: put your axes, your X, Y and z and how

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Speaker 1: you measure your position and your velocity is absolutely fundamentally

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Speaker 1: central to the whole concept of relativity. And so you

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Speaker 1: know that gives you clues to what it might be about.

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Speaker 1: And I think this is a super fun topic and

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Speaker 1: I especially hope that it's being enjoyed by one particular

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Speaker 1: listener out there. Heis from the Netherlands. He wrote to

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Speaker 1: us last week and he said that he really liked

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Speaker 1: our podcast, but that it had led to more than

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Speaker 1: one occasion in which he burned dinner.

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Speaker 4: Oh no, well out of frustration or of just not

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Speaker 4: paying attention.

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Speaker 1: Apparently, he listens to our guests while he's cooking, and

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Speaker 1: when things get really complicated or interesting, he ignores what's

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Speaker 1: on the stove and these things go up in flames. Wow.

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Speaker 4: I feel like we're destroying this person's family life here,

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Speaker 4: if not his actual at home.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. He also said that his kids know not to

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Speaker 1: ask him anything or for anything when he's listening to

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Speaker 1: the podcast, because he'll just ignore them.

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Speaker 4: He or she should invite their kids to listen with

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Speaker 4: him her which kid doesn't want to know about frame dragging.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so pay attention to the podcast, learn the secrets

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Speaker 1: of the universe, but also don't burn your dinner.

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Speaker 4: Sorry, flip the chicken right now, good before it gets overcooked.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, let's pause so that he's can finish the dinner.

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Speaker 4: All right, Well, this is an interesting question, and so

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Speaker 4: as usual we were wondering how many people out there

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Speaker 4: had even heard of this question and what it might

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Speaker 4: mean or even have an answer. So, as usual, Daniel

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Speaker 4: went out there and ask people on the internet what

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Speaker 4: is frame dragging?

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Speaker 1: So thanks to everybody who was willing to play along.

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Speaker 1: And if you have listened to the podcast and chuck

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Speaker 1: along with these answers but never contributed your own, please

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Speaker 1: write to me to questions at Danielanjorge dot com and volunteer.

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Speaker 1: I promise it's fun.

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Speaker 4: Here's what be glad to say.

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Speaker 5: I'm going to guess that it has something to do

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Speaker 5: with photography, maybe photographing of planets in a three dimensional

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Speaker 5: space where we can only view them in a two

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Speaker 5: dimensional aspect. We take enough pictures of the two dimensional

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Speaker 5: aspects to drag them together to create a three dimensional picture.

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Speaker 1: Frame dragging is when it's moving day and none of

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Speaker 1: your friends show up to help. Frame dragging. From Phazic's

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Speaker 1: point of view, I don't know.

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Speaker 4: I have no idea frame dragging nothing, all right, Not

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Speaker 4: a lot of people seem to have a good idea here,

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Speaker 4: like the one who said it's moving day and none

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Speaker 4: of your friends want to help you move drag your

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Speaker 4: art frames around.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a great one. Should have ordered more pizza man, sorry.

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Speaker 4: Or yeah, you know, hired perhaps so. Yeah, it's a

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Speaker 4: pretty interesting question because it doesn't sound physics z. But

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Speaker 4: I'm guessing it has something to do with maybe like

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Speaker 4: frames of reference or coordinate systems or something like that.

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Speaker 1: Exactly, it has to do with a really bizarre prediction

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Speaker 1: of general relativity. Remember that general relativity is Einstein's theory

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Speaker 1: of gravity and replaced Newton's theory. Newton says two objects

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Speaker 1: with mass will pull on each other, that gravity is

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Speaker 1: a force, but Einstein tells us that gravity shouldn't be

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Speaker 1: seen as a force. It's actually just due to the

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Speaker 1: fact that space and time curve around massive objects. And

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Speaker 1: if you can't see those curves, like we can't detect

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Speaker 1: them directly, then things will move in a surprising way,

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Speaker 1: and they move as if they were under some force.

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Speaker 1: And that's what gravity is. It's the effect of the

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Speaker 1: curvature of space time itself. Most of the time, those

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Speaker 1: two things totally agree. Like you could treat gravity as

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Speaker 1: a force like Newton did, or you could treat gravity

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Speaker 1: as the bending of space time like Einstein does. It

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Speaker 1: doesn't really change the way the Earth moves around the Sun,

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Speaker 1: for example. But there are some cases where they disagree,

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Speaker 1: and that lets us probe Einstein's theory as different from

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Speaker 1: Newton's theory.

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Speaker 4: Really, I thought it was sort of like mathematically burned

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Speaker 4: in that it was the same thing. But no, there

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Speaker 4: are exceptions.

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Speaker 1: No, they are fundamentally different ways of seeing the universe,

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Speaker 1: and they give different predictions in some cases. In almost

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Speaker 1: every case they don't, which is why Newton's theory worked

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Speaker 1: so well. Right, Newton got a lot of stuff right,

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Speaker 1: because for the most part his theory is correct, and like,

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Speaker 1: that's a lesson getting a bunch of experiments right, And

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Speaker 1: like nailing predictions for hundreds of years in a row

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Speaker 1: doesn't mean that your theory is fundamentally true. It doesn't

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Speaker 1: mean that it's an actual description of nature. It just

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Speaker 1: means the experimentalists having come up with a way to

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Speaker 1: break your idea. Yet.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And I imagine for Einstein it was a little

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Speaker 4: bit like it is now for us with him in

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Speaker 4: that you know, at the time, Newton was like the

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Speaker 4: eyesight of this day and for him to be like,

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Speaker 4: I think Newton's wrong, people were like, what you think

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Speaker 4: you're smarter than Newton.

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Speaker 1: Or for sure. And remember that Einstein is further in

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Speaker 1: time from Newton than we are from Einstein. So I

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Speaker 1: think Newton was probably like an even grander, you know,

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Speaker 1: person in the history of science due to the passage

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Speaker 1: of time, like his ideas had stood longer, and whereas Einstein, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, you can see movies of the guy, you know,

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Speaker 1: he's like a real person.

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Speaker 4: Well, they are the effects of internet relativity, which you

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Speaker 4: know makes time seem to go faster, all right, So

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Speaker 4: there are instances where Einstein's theory of special relativity is

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Speaker 4: different than Newton's, and so we can test whether or

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Speaker 4: not the theories are correct exactly.

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Speaker 1: And it really comes down to things spinning. Like for Newton,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't really matter if the Earth is spinning, its

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Speaker 1: gravitational pull on the Moon is the same. Like for Newton,

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Speaker 1: the only thing that gravity depends on are the masses

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Speaker 1: of the two objects and their relative distance. If you

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Speaker 1: know Newton's equation gmm over R squared, there's no factor

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Speaker 1: in there that can be influenced by the fact that

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Speaker 1: the Earth is spinning. It's irrelevant because like the configuration

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Speaker 1: of the mass doesn't actually change. Right, If you have

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Speaker 1: a perfect sphere and you spin, it doesn't change the

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Speaker 1: distance between any of the objects. But for Einstein's theory

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Speaker 1: it does matter.

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Speaker 4: Right, But as long as the I guess the center

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Speaker 4: of mass of the Earth is kind of on the

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Speaker 4: spin axis, right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, If you have a perfect sphere and it's spinning

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Speaker 1: around its center, then its gravity is totally unaffected by

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Speaker 1: its spin, according to Newton, because the only thing that

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Speaker 1: Newton cares about is the relative distance between two little

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Speaker 1: bits of mass, and so if that's not changing, then

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Speaker 1: the gravity shouldn't change at all, right.

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Speaker 4: And specifically like between the center of masses of the

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Speaker 4: two things. Right, that's the only thing that counts for Newton.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, for Newton, that's all that counts. You can treat

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Speaker 1: the Earth, for example, as if it was a point

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Speaker 1: particle with the same mass, and you put that point

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Speaker 1: particle at the center of mass, and all the other

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Speaker 1: effects of some things being closer and some things being

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Speaker 1: further away cancel out, which is a pretty cool, nice simplification.

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Speaker 1: It makes a lot of physics much easier to do.

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Speaker 4: But Einstein's special relativity is not the same.

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Speaker 1: Einstein's theory of general relativity says that spin does matter,

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Speaker 1: that the way an object spins affects the way that

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Speaker 1: it bends space and time, and that will change the

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Speaker 1: gravitational effect on objects moving around a spinning Earth versus

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Speaker 1: a non spinning earth, and we can do experiments to

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Speaker 1: see if that's correct.

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Speaker 4: Wait, what you mean the spinning somehow changes the way

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Speaker 4: it's bending space around it. Yes, even for a perfect sphere.

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Speaker 1: Even for a perfect sphere, what it does is it

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Speaker 1: drags the space around it a little bit. It pulls

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Speaker 1: the space itself, and that's why they call it frame dragging.

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Speaker 1: It's sort of like if you had a ball and

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Speaker 1: you dipped it in honey, and then you spun the

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Speaker 1: ball a little bit. You would get the honey dragged

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Speaker 1: along with the ball, right, There'd be a little bit

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Speaker 1: of friction, they would pull it along with it. Einstein

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Speaker 1: says that if you have a really big massive object,

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Speaker 1: then you spin it, then you drags space itself along

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Speaker 1: with the object. So they should have called it like

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Speaker 1: space dragging or something, but they call it frame dragging.

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Speaker 4: You said it and not I. It should have called

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Speaker 4: it a better name, for sure. But what do you mean,

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Speaker 4: like a drag space. How can you drag space?

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Speaker 1: Long?

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Speaker 4: Like, how can you pull on space?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? How can you pull on space?

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Speaker 6: Right?

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Speaker 1: Well, what is eu in space? We don't know. But

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Speaker 1: space can do a bunch of weird things, right. It

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Speaker 1: can bend, and it can ripple, and it can twist.

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Speaker 1: So what we talk about when we say space is curved,

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Speaker 1: really what we mean there is not that it's like

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Speaker 1: curved like a big sheet relatives to some other direction.

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Speaker 1: But we're changing the relative distances between points in space,

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Speaker 1: so that, for example, the shortest path from A to

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Speaker 1: B is no longer what you would imagine to be

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Speaker 1: a straight line, but a different path because the distances

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Speaker 1: between the points along the way have been shrunk. So

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Speaker 1: in the same way, you can talk about dragging space

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Speaker 1: with you as this weird effect an additional sort of

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Speaker 1: curvature of space, Like when an object is spinning, it

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Speaker 1: curves space differently around it than if it isn't spinning.

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Speaker 4: Does that due to the fact that, you know, maybe

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Speaker 4: the particles or the masses at the surface of the

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Speaker 4: sphere have some kind of velocity and so there's some

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Speaker 4: sort of you know, sort of lag in its effect

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Speaker 4: to the things around it, or how would you explain

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Speaker 4: what's causing that dragging of space?

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Speaker 1: You're right that Newton assumes that gravity is instantaneous. Like

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Speaker 1: in Newton's world, if an object disappears, then it's gravity

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Speaker 1: disappears instantaneously, even for objects really far away. But in

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Speaker 1: Einstein's world, gravity takes time for information to propagate. So

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Speaker 1: if the sun disappears, we don't notice that for eight minutes.

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Speaker 1: In this situation, I don't think that's the explanation for

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Speaker 1: frame dragging, because frame dragging exists even in a object

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Speaker 1: that's been spinning for like a long long time, and

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Speaker 1: then it's no change, no update, you know, like information needs

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Speaker 1: to propagate, so it can be like a steady state situation.

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Speaker 1: It's not like a transient effect. A better way to

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Speaker 1: think about it is as the gravitational version of electromagnetic induction,

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Speaker 1: if you're familiar with that concept.

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Speaker 4: All right, well, let's get a little bit deeper into

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Speaker 4: this frame dragging and most importantly, how could we measure

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Speaker 4: it and potentially prove Einstein wrong. But first, let's take

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Speaker 4: a quick break.

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465
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468
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470
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471
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472
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474
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Speaker 4: All Right, we're talking about proving Einstein wrong, and there's

483
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:59,080
Speaker 4: a bunch of people out there trying to do this. Right,

484
00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:03,040
Speaker 4: there's an official government funded experiment trying to prove his

485
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:03,800
Speaker 4: theories wrong.

486
00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:07,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's lots of ways that we've been testing Einstein's theories. One,

487
00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:09,480
Speaker 1: of course, was just like looking for black holes. That

488
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:12,000
Speaker 1: was a prediction of Einstein's theory, which turned out, of course,

489
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:15,960
Speaker 1: to be correct. Another is gravitational waves. People were looking

490
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:19,480
Speaker 1: to see if space itself would ripple when two black

491
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:22,280
Speaker 1: holes orbit around each other and then finally gobble each

492
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:25,080
Speaker 1: other up. And you know, we saw those. That's pretty awesome.

493
00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:28,520
Speaker 1: And so all of these things are tests of Einstein's relativity.

494
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:31,920
Speaker 1: But there's a series of folks developing like hyper sensitive

495
00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:35,280
Speaker 1: tests to look for like these like small little deviations

496
00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:38,680
Speaker 1: because we can't like organize our own black hole experiment

497
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:41,280
Speaker 1: where we're like shoot one black hole at another, so

498
00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:43,679
Speaker 1: we have to do the experiments here on Earth. And

499
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:47,240
Speaker 1: because gravity is so weak, the effects are really really small.

500
00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:50,120
Speaker 1: Effects that are like really dramatic when black holes are involved,

501
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:53,240
Speaker 1: are really not very dramatic when ping pong balls are involved.

502
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:55,000
Speaker 4: What about black pingo balls?

503
00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:57,000
Speaker 1: Oh my god, we didn't try that.

504
00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:01,560
Speaker 4: Hold on a second, yeah, yeah, noble price please. All right,

505
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:03,359
Speaker 4: So one of these effects that you're trying to test

506
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:07,160
Speaker 4: is called frame dragging, which is how a spinning object

507
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:10,320
Speaker 4: kind of drags space around at the edges. But there's

508
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:12,800
Speaker 4: another effect that has to do with gyroscopes, right.

509
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:15,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, All these effects can be well measured by gyroscopes

510
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:18,320
Speaker 1: because what they do, in effect is makes something spin.

511
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:21,719
Speaker 1: Like the Earth has its gravity, it's pulling on you,

512
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:25,080
Speaker 1: but if it's spinning, its gravity will also give you

513
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:27,760
Speaker 1: a little bit of a twist. And so we measure

514
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:30,440
Speaker 1: these things by using gyroscopes. And you're right, there are

515
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:33,520
Speaker 1: two different effects that can happen to a gyroscope. Here,

516
00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:36,119
Speaker 1: one is this frame dragging effect, and the other is

517
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:40,119
Speaker 1: this really awesome effect, this geodetic effect. It's called that

518
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 1: lets you measure the curvature of space directly. You can

519
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:47,399
Speaker 1: exactly measure whether or not space is curved by putting

520
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:49,760
Speaker 1: a gyroscope in orbit around a planet.

521
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:52,440
Speaker 4: Now, a gyroscope, again, is just like a spinning mass,

522
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:53,159
Speaker 4: right exactly.

523
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 1: You take something and you spin it, and you try

524
00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:57,600
Speaker 1: to make it really precise so it doesn't wobble, and

525
00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:01,040
Speaker 1: because of a conservation of angular momentum, if nothing touches it,

526
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:03,280
Speaker 1: it should keep spinning. Right, So, if there are no

527
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 1: external forces on a spinning object, it should keep spinning

528
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:08,639
Speaker 1: the way like if you push something in outer space,

529
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:12,120
Speaker 1: it should keep going forever unless something stops it. Because

530
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:14,760
Speaker 1: of angular momentum. If you spin something like the Earth,

531
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:17,240
Speaker 1: and the Earth is a gyroscope, it should keep spinning.

532
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:19,919
Speaker 1: And so you can measure if there's any force on

533
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:23,359
Speaker 1: a gyroscope by seeing if the angle of its spin

534
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:25,160
Speaker 1: changes or if its spin rate.

535
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:28,200
Speaker 4: Changes, and also like if it starts tilting too right.

536
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:30,760
Speaker 1: Mm hmm exactly, they call that precession. So if you

537
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:32,800
Speaker 1: put some force on a gyroscope, you could slow it

538
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:35,359
Speaker 1: down or you could change the angle of its spin

539
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:36,440
Speaker 1: if it tilts a little bit.

540
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 4: And so that's what these experiments are. There's one in

541
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:41,360
Speaker 4: particular called the gravity pro B experiment.

542
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, these are really fun experiments. Basically, somebody said, what

543
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 1: if we take a gyroscope and we put it out

544
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:50,920
Speaker 1: in space and we orbit the Earth. Now, Newton says

545
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:53,639
Speaker 1: that if the gyroscope is perfect and the Earth is

546
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:56,240
Speaker 1: the spear, et cetera, et cetera, that gyroscope, once you

547
00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:59,720
Speaker 1: started spinning, will spin forever the same way, and orbiting

548
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:01,720
Speaker 1: the Earth Earth will have no effect on it. Right

549
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:04,320
Speaker 1: because orbiting the Earth just pulls on it and it

550
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 1: has gravity. It makes it orbit, but it shouldn't change

551
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,919
Speaker 1: the direction of the gyroscope. That's what Newton says. That

552
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:12,919
Speaker 1: the gyroscope will forever point the same direction, but the

553
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:16,240
Speaker 1: geodetic effect and the frame dragging effect, both of them

554
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:18,960
Speaker 1: will twist this gyroscope a little bit. So they came

555
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:22,600
Speaker 1: up with this experiment, gravity probe B, which is basically

556
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 1: nothing but like a really super duper precise gyroscope in

557
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 1: space in orbit.

558
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:30,280
Speaker 4: Around the Earth on a like a satellite, right.

559
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:32,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's its own space craft. It's its own satellite

560
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 1: just dedicated to actually these four spinning balls moving around

561
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:37,960
Speaker 1: the Earth.

562
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 4: So it's a pro because it's an experiment and it's

563
00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 4: probing gravity, and it's B because it's the second one. Right.

564
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:46,400
Speaker 4: Gravity Probe A was another experiment.

565
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:49,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. Gravity Probe A was a different space

566
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:53,040
Speaker 1: based experiment to probe gravity, but it was probing a

567
00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:55,879
Speaker 1: different feature of gravity, and it used like a totally

568
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:58,639
Speaker 1: separate setup. It had like a hydrogen maser on it,

569
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:02,119
Speaker 1: and it was measuring the equivalent principle whether gravity is

570
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:04,480
Speaker 1: really the same as the acceleration. You know, the whole

571
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:08,920
Speaker 1: idea of Einstein's general relativity is that gravity, this force

572
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:12,119
Speaker 1: we feel, is just the curvature of space. And so

573
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:14,280
Speaker 1: they were out there to measure whether you could tell

574
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:18,119
Speaker 1: the difference between like the curvature of space and other accelerations,

575
00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 1: and of course they found that you couldn't.

576
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:22,919
Speaker 4: Yeah, so the Gravity Probe A confirm Einstein's theory, so

577
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:26,119
Speaker 4: it didn't prove him wrong. And now we have launched

578
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:28,639
Speaker 4: this Probe B to further test that, and that was

579
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,120
Speaker 4: launched a while ago, right, almost fifteen years ago.

580
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was launched in two thousand and four, and

581
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:36,720
Speaker 1: they sent it up there and they studied these gyroscopes

582
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:38,920
Speaker 1: for a couple of years before they got the results.

583
00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 1: But this is a really really hard experiment. Like, not

584
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:45,080
Speaker 1: only is it really complicated, because like even understanding the

585
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:48,479
Speaker 1: general relativity of whether testing is complicated, but building a

586
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 1: gyroscope that's sensitive enough to see these effects, which are

587
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 1: really really tiny effects is just like a huge technical challenge.

588
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:59,560
Speaker 4: Because I guess these effects of gravity are not that

589
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 4: strong around us like here and on Earth, because the

590
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:07,240
Speaker 4: Earth is not that massive, you know, astronomically speaking, like

591
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:09,120
Speaker 4: if you were in a black hole. Around a black

592
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 4: hole would be easier to measure these things.

593
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:13,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you had stronger gravity experiments, these things would

594
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 1: be obvious. And also if these things were obvious in

595
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 1: our environment, we would have noticed them, right. Newton would

596
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 1: have had to incorporate them into his theories just to

597
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:23,880
Speaker 1: get like the orbits of the planets right and stuff.

598
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:26,360
Speaker 1: And so these are very very small effects, which is

599
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:29,920
Speaker 1: why you need very very sensitive experiments because remember gravity

600
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:33,280
Speaker 1: is actually a very very weak force, like it dominates

601
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:36,640
Speaker 1: the universe in the end, controlling its structure. But it's

602
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:39,680
Speaker 1: a very weak force compared to everything else. You know,

603
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 1: you can overcome gravity with a simple kitchen magnet. Every

604
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:45,200
Speaker 1: bolt of lightning has a lot more energy than the

605
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:48,560
Speaker 1: gravitational field of the Earth, and so it's hard to

606
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 1: see a very small effect gravitationally because you have to

607
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:53,520
Speaker 1: isolate it from everything else.

608
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:56,080
Speaker 4: I guess maybe it wouldn't have been easier to send

609
00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:59,120
Speaker 4: these pros like to orbit Jupiter or something, just something heavier.

610
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 1: It's so easy to orbit Jupitery or the Sun, Right,

611
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 1: why don't just send it into the Sun.

612
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:08,840
Speaker 4: Why don't they put me in charge here?

613
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:12,360
Speaker 1: No, you're right. It's definitely would have been an advantage

614
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:15,680
Speaker 1: to have a more massive object, But it's also just

615
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 1: harder to control and communicate with a satellite that's much

616
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 1: further away, and it's just it takes years to get there,

617
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:24,640
Speaker 1: and you need propellant and you can't repair it and

618
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 1: all this kind of stuff. So it's just easier to

619
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:27,920
Speaker 1: work in near earth orbit.

620
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 4: All right, So let's just maybe describe for folks how

621
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:33,160
Speaker 4: this experiment works. I mean, we know it's got a

622
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 4: little tiny gyroscope inside of it, but how does that work?

623
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:37,720
Speaker 4: What does the gyroscope look.

624
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 1: Like, so the gyroscope has to be super super accurate.

625
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:43,400
Speaker 1: What you really would love to do is just have

626
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 1: a spinning ball in space and nothing around it, just

627
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 1: like totally isolated. Have a ball spinning in space and

628
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:52,920
Speaker 1: measure as it goes around the Earth whether it's direction

629
00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:54,960
Speaker 1: of spin is changing. But of course you can't just

630
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:56,720
Speaker 1: put a ball in space. You have to measure it somehow,

631
00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:58,520
Speaker 1: and you have to protect it. So they built this

632
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:02,239
Speaker 1: whole spacecraft round this spinning ball, and they want this

633
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 1: ball to be spinning, but they don't want the spacecraft

634
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:06,000
Speaker 1: to touch it. So what they do is they have

635
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:09,600
Speaker 1: this ping pong ball sized sphere of quartz, and it

636
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:13,360
Speaker 1: has to be really super spherical because if it's lopsided

637
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:15,760
Speaker 1: in any way at all, then it will like develop

638
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:17,880
Speaker 1: a wobble and then you won't be able to measure

639
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:21,000
Speaker 1: these really small effects. So they spent like a decade

640
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 1: perfecting how to make the roundest object in the history

641
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:26,320
Speaker 1: of humanity.

642
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 4: What they spent ten years just polishing this little ball.

643
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:34,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, they'd mine this perfect quartz in Brazil and then

644
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:37,520
Speaker 1: they have this factory in Germany which can like polish

645
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 1: them and melt them and get them in exactly the

646
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:43,760
Speaker 1: right configuration. And this thing is I'm not joking, the

647
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 1: most spherical object ever manufactured. Like it has its own

648
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:49,720
Speaker 1: entry in the Guinness Book of World Records.

649
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 5: Wow.

650
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:52,840
Speaker 4: Well, so, first of all, it's a perfect crystal like

651
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:58,920
Speaker 4: it's one perfect lattice of quartz atoms, and then it's

652
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:02,960
Speaker 4: been polished and shape to be this the roundest thing ever.

653
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:06,600
Speaker 1: The roundest thing ever. It's three ten millions of an

654
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 1: inch from perfect sphericity. Like the difference between you know,

655
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:13,120
Speaker 1: the radius at one point and the radius anywhere else

656
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 1: is this infinitesimal amount. It's amazingly smooth.

657
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 4: Wow, I'm imagining some you know, old German person with

658
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 4: a little polishing cloth going r rub for ten years.

659
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:24,800
Speaker 4: Is that how they did it?

660
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's basically it. That's basically it. And they have

661
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:32,520
Speaker 1: to make four of these things because they wanted independent measurements.

662
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:34,480
Speaker 1: So they have four of these things. And like to

663
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:36,760
Speaker 1: give you a sense of how smooth this is, if

664
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:38,480
Speaker 1: you took one of these things and you blew it

665
00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:40,600
Speaker 1: up to be the size of the Earth, then the

666
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 1: difference between like the highest mountain and the deepest trench

667
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 1: would only be eight feet.

668
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 4: So it's like it's smooth at the atomic level.

669
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's forty layers of atoms. Difference between the highest

670
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 1: peak on this thing and the deepest like scratch on it,

671
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:58,000
Speaker 1: forty atoms. So that German lady over there polishing it,

672
00:32:58,040 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 1: you know, she's doing it atom by atom.

673
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,400
Speaker 4: So then you take these small quartz balls and then

674
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 4: you spin them up. Then that's your gyroscope. Do you

675
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:06,480
Speaker 4: put four of them and you spin them up before

676
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 4: you launch them, or do you spin them up once

677
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 4: you get the space.

678
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:11,840
Speaker 1: You spin them up down here on Earth, right, because

679
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:13,960
Speaker 1: you've got to test them. But then you also spin

680
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:16,040
Speaker 1: them up and get them started up there in space.

681
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 1: But you can't just like touch them. You can't, like

682
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 1: if you touch this thing, then you'll ruin it, right,

683
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:24,040
Speaker 1: And so they spin them up first, they levitate them

684
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:28,440
Speaker 1: electrostatically by you know, having this like electric field, and

685
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:31,160
Speaker 1: then they spin them up by shooting a stream of

686
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:34,880
Speaker 1: helium at them. They get them going four thousand revolutions

687
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:35,479
Speaker 1: per minute.

688
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:38,239
Speaker 4: Wow, Like it's got little jets of helium, you know,

689
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:39,800
Speaker 4: hitting it kind of on the sides.

690
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:42,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. It provides a little torque by shooting this

691
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:45,360
Speaker 1: stream of helium at it and then it evacuates the

692
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 1: chamber so there's no helium left. So you have this

693
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 1: whole spacecraft and it's sort of surrounding this levitating ball

694
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:55,560
Speaker 1: of spinning quartz, but it's not touching it.

695
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:57,880
Speaker 4: Oh, I see, it's just floating in space. But it

696
00:33:57,920 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 4: doesn't drift to the size or anything.

697
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 1: Have these electrostatics to try to keep it from drifting

698
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 1: to the side, because the spacecraft can drift a little bit, right,

699
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:08,160
Speaker 1: or something hits the spacecraft, then it might bump into

700
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:11,759
Speaker 1: the ball. So they have these little like electrostatic controls

701
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:14,360
Speaker 1: to try to like push it along with the spacecraft.

702
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:16,680
Speaker 1: It's sort of like that game operation. You know, you

703
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 1: got to like not touch the sides ever, or you

704
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:20,560
Speaker 1: got a big buzz.

705
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I guess if Newton was right and Estein

706
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:26,680
Speaker 4: was wrong, then this little quartz ball would keep spinning

707
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:29,239
Speaker 4: for a really long time, Like you know, it would

708
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 4: just be spinning in space, no friction, no air resistance,

709
00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:35,239
Speaker 4: so it just spin for a really long time. Right.

710
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:38,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, if we've done it perfectly, it would spin forever. Right.

711
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 1: They've not done it exactly perfectly, but they estimate that

712
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 1: once they spin this thing up, it shouldn't slow down

713
00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:48,480
Speaker 1: due to friction or impurities for fifteen thousand years, which

714
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:50,840
Speaker 1: is a pretty awesome feet of engineering.

715
00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 4: And then you said they put up four of these,

716
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:57,279
Speaker 4: there's like four different spacecraft or like one spacecraft with

717
00:34:57,360 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 4: four little quartz balls.

718
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:01,759
Speaker 1: It's one spacecraft with four little quartz balls in them.

719
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:04,600
Speaker 1: And that way they get like not totally independent measurements,

720
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:07,600
Speaker 1: because four totally separate spacecrafts would cost a lot more.

721
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 1: This way, if one of the balls goes wonky or

722
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:12,320
Speaker 1: has an impurity in it, they have like three backups.

723
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:14,400
Speaker 1: But they ended up all four of them working and

724
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:17,399
Speaker 1: giving them measurements. And then they combine the information from

725
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:19,880
Speaker 1: all the balls in that one spacecraft to give them

726
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:22,320
Speaker 1: a measurement of these procession effects.

727
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:25,160
Speaker 4: Okay, so I guess then the question is, once you

728
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:27,560
Speaker 4: get these little balls spinning, do they spin like that

729
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:31,440
Speaker 4: for fifteen thousand years or do they start wobbling and

730
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:36,120
Speaker 4: wiggling due to general relativity? So let's get into how

731
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:39,480
Speaker 4: they measured that wobble and what does it all mean, Daniel,

732
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:42,600
Speaker 4: But first let's take another quick break.

733
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:48,919
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734
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735
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736
00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:58,920
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737
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738
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739
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740
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741
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742
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743
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Speaker 4: All right, we're talking about frame dragging and the gravity

790
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:45,200
Speaker 4: pro b experiment and how it's trying to prove Einstein wrong.

791
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:47,120
Speaker 4: All right, I said, so far, we've put these four

792
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:49,839
Speaker 4: perfect quartz balls up into space, we spun them up,

793
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:53,080
Speaker 4: and now we're trying to see if somehow the dragging

794
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:57,120
Speaker 4: of space by spinning Earth will somehow make these balls

795
00:38:57,440 --> 00:38:58,480
Speaker 4: wubble exactly.

796
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:00,800
Speaker 1: So there's two effects we're looking for here, one is

797
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:04,480
Speaker 1: the geodetic effect, which measures the curvature of space itself,

798
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:07,440
Speaker 1: because a gyroscope going around the Earth direction it's spinning

799
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:10,160
Speaker 1: will actually twist a little bit because the space in

800
00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:13,400
Speaker 1: its vicinity is a tiny bit curved, and that applies

801
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:16,880
Speaker 1: basically a little force different from the actual just force

802
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:19,320
Speaker 1: of gravity pulling it towards the center of the Earth

803
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:21,600
Speaker 1: and gives it a little twist. Right, the force of

804
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:23,799
Speaker 1: gravity just pulls towards the center of the Earth. This

805
00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:26,680
Speaker 1: geodetic effect gives it a little spin. And the frame

806
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:30,480
Speaker 1: dragging is a separate effect that's pulling space along with it,

807
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 1: and it gives it a different kind of spin. So

808
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:36,719
Speaker 1: we're looking for two different sort of spin changes in

809
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:39,960
Speaker 1: these gyroscopes. One tells us about the geodetic effect and

810
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:43,520
Speaker 1: the other one orthogonal to it, tells us about frame dragging.

811
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:46,360
Speaker 4: And so we're trying to measure really small wobbles in

812
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:48,879
Speaker 4: these spinning balls. And so how do we measure these things?

813
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:51,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a real challenge, right, You got these spinning balls,

814
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:53,719
Speaker 1: you don't ever want to touch them. So how do

815
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:57,000
Speaker 1: you tell how a perfect sphere is spinning? If you

816
00:39:57,040 --> 00:39:59,279
Speaker 1: can't even touch it right. So what they do is

817
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:03,640
Speaker 1: they coat the spheres with super conducting niobium. It's this

818
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:07,400
Speaker 1: weird element and if you get niobium really really cold,

819
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:11,160
Speaker 1: and when it spins, then the charges niobium generate a

820
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:14,800
Speaker 1: magnetic field, and so you can measure the direction of

821
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:18,320
Speaker 1: the magnetic field, which tells you exactly how this sphere

822
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:21,000
Speaker 1: is spinning without touching the sphere itself.

823
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:23,600
Speaker 4: Oh interesting, it's like you cod it with sort of

824
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:26,280
Speaker 4: like a magnet type of thing, and then since it's spinning,

825
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:29,480
Speaker 4: it generates a magnetic field that you can measure if

826
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:30,239
Speaker 4: it wobbles or not.

827
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:33,640
Speaker 1: But it's a very very slight magnetic field because it's

828
00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:35,960
Speaker 1: a very thin layer of niobium, and you want to

829
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:37,680
Speaker 1: put a very thin perfect layer on it so you

830
00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:40,279
Speaker 1: don't ruin, you know, the polishing job that your germ

831
00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:42,680
Speaker 1: and buba has done. And so they have to use

832
00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:47,240
Speaker 1: these really cool magnetometers called squids that are these fun

833
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:50,200
Speaker 1: quantum magnetomic devices that we should do a whole other

834
00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:54,640
Speaker 1: podcast about. But they're very very sensitive to very small

835
00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:58,319
Speaker 1: magnetic fields. These are magnetic fields or like one ten

836
00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:01,560
Speaker 1: billionth of the earth magnetic field, so you can't just

837
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:03,520
Speaker 1: like put up any compass up there, you've got to

838
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:05,480
Speaker 1: have a really sensitive magnetometer.

839
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:09,000
Speaker 4: Oh wow, but doesn't man like probing this magnetic field

840
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:11,680
Speaker 4: also affect the spinning ball, Like, isn't there like a

841
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:15,120
Speaker 4: danger of like accidentally pushing it when you're when you're

842
00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:15,719
Speaker 4: trying to poke it.

843
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:18,279
Speaker 1: Absolutely, And that's why you don't want to have like

844
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:21,280
Speaker 1: another magnet up there. So you have this squid device

845
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:24,880
Speaker 1: which is very very sensitive and minimally feeds back to

846
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:27,640
Speaker 1: the spinning sphere. Which you're right. You can't measure anything

847
00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:31,040
Speaker 1: in this universe without affecting it, and that includes magnets. Right,

848
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:33,400
Speaker 1: use a magnetic probe to probe magnets, it's going to

849
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:35,759
Speaker 1: have a little bit of a feedback effect. But here

850
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:38,640
Speaker 1: they think that that feedback effect is negligible compared to

851
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:40,840
Speaker 1: the magnetic field it's being generated.

852
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:44,239
Speaker 4: All right, So then these magnetometers are super sensitive. If

853
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:47,960
Speaker 4: the little ball's wobble by even a one tenth of

854
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 4: a milli arc second, which is like like a billions

855
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:54,040
Speaker 4: of a couple of billions of a degree, right, then

856
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:55,359
Speaker 4: they would notice.

857
00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:58,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. And so it's just super incredible that

858
00:41:58,120 --> 00:41:59,839
Speaker 1: they even built this thing. And you know, it took

859
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:02,440
Speaker 1: decades and decades. People have been thinking about this for

860
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:05,960
Speaker 1: a long time, but they're all these engineering problems, like

861
00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:08,319
Speaker 1: how do you get a gyroscope this smooth, how do

862
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:10,160
Speaker 1: you measure it, how do you keep it from bumping

863
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:12,719
Speaker 1: into the spacecraft? How do you develop a magnetometer or

864
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:15,640
Speaker 1: this sensitive? So all of these different problems were like

865
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:18,600
Speaker 1: total roadblocks for a long time, and then one by

866
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:21,399
Speaker 1: one they were able to overcome them and actually put

867
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:23,840
Speaker 1: this thing together and actually build it and send it

868
00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:26,399
Speaker 1: into space and make it work. So it's a real

869
00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:29,240
Speaker 1: tourative force of engineering and physics together.

870
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:32,080
Speaker 4: So it went up into two thousand and four, and

871
00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:34,200
Speaker 4: they got results in two thousand and seven, so we

872
00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:35,280
Speaker 4: know what happened.

873
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:39,040
Speaker 1: We do know what happened, And because Einstein is still

874
00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:41,759
Speaker 1: taught in school, then you'll know the answer already, which

875
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:45,440
Speaker 1: is that they confirmed Einstein's prediction. So Einstein's theory can

876
00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:48,279
Speaker 1: be used to predict exactly the curvature of space as

877
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:50,719
Speaker 1: you go around the Earth, and the geodetic effect is

878
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:53,520
Speaker 1: twist on the gyroscope. It can also be used to

879
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:57,480
Speaker 1: predict how much space is being dragged along by the

880
00:42:57,560 --> 00:43:01,000
Speaker 1: Earth and this gives a smaller effect in a different direction.

881
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:03,920
Speaker 1: And so they saw both of these and both effects

882
00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:07,120
Speaker 1: are totally consistent with what Einstein predicted.

883
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:10,560
Speaker 4: No way, So like we send these things up there,

884
00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:14,200
Speaker 4: and they did exactly what Einstein predicted, Like you can

885
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:18,680
Speaker 4: see how these things wobble due to the bending of space, exactly.

886
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:22,560
Speaker 1: You can see these things get twisted by space itself.

887
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:26,160
Speaker 1: It's hard to think about how gravity can make something twist, right,

888
00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:28,840
Speaker 1: Like we're familiar with gravity making something move in a circle,

889
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:32,239
Speaker 1: but actually, like also given a twist, it's because it's

890
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:35,760
Speaker 1: twisting space as well, right Like when space gets dragged

891
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:38,319
Speaker 1: along by the Earth, it makes these weird, sort of

892
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:41,600
Speaker 1: sheer effects in the fabric of space itself, and those

893
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:43,920
Speaker 1: come out to be like a little twist. I think

894
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:46,480
Speaker 1: it's also maybe helpful to try to visualize what's going

895
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:49,440
Speaker 1: on with the geodetic effect. You're probably familiar with, Like

896
00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:53,040
Speaker 1: how you can measure the curvature of space if you

897
00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:55,919
Speaker 1: take like a triangle and you add up all the angles,

898
00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 1: and on flat space, if you add up all the angles,

899
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:00,760
Speaker 1: then they all add up to one hundred eighty degrees.

900
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:03,839
Speaker 1: But on a curved surface, you might get different angles. Well,

901
00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:06,640
Speaker 1: there's another even cooler way to think about how space

902
00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:09,279
Speaker 1: is curved, and that's by thinking about a circle. You

903
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:11,960
Speaker 1: take a circle that's on a flat space and you

904
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:16,759
Speaker 1: compare its radius to its circumference. Then the relationship is tupi. Right.

905
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:19,640
Speaker 1: That's famous, of course, But if space is curved, then

906
00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:23,239
Speaker 1: that no longer holds because, for example, the radius can

907
00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:26,440
Speaker 1: get longer if space is curved. So imagine, for example,

908
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:29,120
Speaker 1: a circle around the Earth, and if the Earth wasn't there,

909
00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:32,560
Speaker 1: you could measure the radius of that circle. You know

910
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:34,760
Speaker 1: where the center of the circle would be sitting nominally

911
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:37,319
Speaker 1: at the center of the Earth, and that would be

912
00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:39,640
Speaker 1: the radius of the Earth, and the circumsance of the

913
00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:42,359
Speaker 1: circle would be the circumference of the Earth. But because

914
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:45,040
Speaker 1: space is bent, then the path actually gets a little

915
00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:48,160
Speaker 1: bit longer, right, because like imagine, for example, you have

916
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:50,520
Speaker 1: like a circle with a bubble in it. If you

917
00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:53,880
Speaker 1: move along the bubble, then you're going to measure larger

918
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:56,800
Speaker 1: radius than if you're just moving exactly towards the center.

919
00:44:56,920 --> 00:44:58,799
Speaker 4: Right. It's like trying to measure the equator from the

920
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:01,040
Speaker 4: north pole. You'd have to sort of go around the

921
00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:01,959
Speaker 4: curvature of the Earth.

922
00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:04,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so what we're doing here is we're sort

923
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:08,520
Speaker 1: of measuring, you know, pie in some sense, we're measuring

924
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:10,920
Speaker 1: whether moving around the Earth sort of lines up with

925
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:13,440
Speaker 1: the radius of the Earth. So that's one thing that

926
00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:17,319
Speaker 1: the geodetic effect is measuring, is the local curvature. And

927
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:20,319
Speaker 1: if there was no curvature in that space, then moving

928
00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:23,200
Speaker 1: around the Earth a gyroscope wouldn't process at all. But

929
00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:25,839
Speaker 1: because there is that little bit of curvature, then things

930
00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:27,920
Speaker 1: don't quite line up. You know, the radius and the

931
00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:30,360
Speaker 1: circumference don't have the right relationship. So you get this

932
00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:33,120
Speaker 1: very small effect that's the geodetic effect.

933
00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:36,040
Speaker 4: Cool, and so the gravity pro b confirmed this, like

934
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:40,200
Speaker 4: these are super tiny, subtle effects. But this instrument actually

935
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:42,759
Speaker 4: wasn't able to measure this bending of space. I feel

936
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:45,439
Speaker 4: like it brings it all really home, you know, it's

937
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:48,360
Speaker 4: not just something that's happening around the edges of black holes.

938
00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:51,200
Speaker 4: It's like, you can measure the bending of space around

939
00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:54,160
Speaker 4: the Earth, like a few miles from where you are

940
00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:54,600
Speaker 4: right now.

941
00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:57,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you have thirty years, eight hundred million dollars,

942
00:45:57,080 --> 00:45:59,840
Speaker 1: you too can measure the curvature of space.

943
00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:03,359
Speaker 4: Yea Bezos could do this a couple of times.

944
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:06,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, you could do it before lunch, but you're right,

945
00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:09,080
Speaker 1: it's a real Twitter forest. It's amazing. It's a big

946
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:11,960
Speaker 1: effect at black holes, and it's a really almost negligible

947
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:15,799
Speaker 1: effect here. Like, nobody needs to include these calculations even

948
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:19,279
Speaker 1: in their satellite navigation problems. You know, nobody needs to

949
00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:20,799
Speaker 1: worry about these things now.

950
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:23,960
Speaker 4: But they're included in the GPS calculations, right, Like the

951
00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:27,560
Speaker 4: GPS in your phone takes into account the curritual space

952
00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:29,520
Speaker 4: or the effects of relativity.

953
00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:31,799
Speaker 1: Still they the GPS in your phone definitely takes into

954
00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:35,120
Speaker 1: account the effects of relativity, but that's mostly the time dilation,

955
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:38,080
Speaker 1: the fact that down here on Earth we're closer to

956
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:40,800
Speaker 1: the Earth's gravitational well, and so time moves a little

957
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:44,200
Speaker 1: bit slower. So relativity is all sorts of effects. These effects,

958
00:46:44,239 --> 00:46:47,000
Speaker 1: the geodetic effect and the frame dragging effect don't need

959
00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:49,600
Speaker 1: to be included in GPS. If they did, then we

960
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:52,560
Speaker 1: could just use GPS directly to measure them. But you

961
00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:56,360
Speaker 1: need like a special, super isolated, complicated experiment just to

962
00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:59,240
Speaker 1: prove that these effects even exist, so we can safely

963
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:02,720
Speaker 1: ignore them in GPS calculations. But You're definitely right. GPS

964
00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:05,120
Speaker 1: uses other effects of relativity.

965
00:47:04,719 --> 00:47:06,640
Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, I guess. I mean, you know, like the

966
00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:11,279
Speaker 4: basically that bending on spacetime that Einstein figured out, it is,

967
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:12,520
Speaker 4: it's in our everyday lives.

968
00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:12,880
Speaker 7: It is.

969
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:15,080
Speaker 1: It affects our lives. It determines whether or not we

970
00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:15,919
Speaker 1: get where we're going.

971
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:19,000
Speaker 4: All right, So then Einstein was right. No surprise there,

972
00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:21,840
Speaker 4: I guess. I guess we're people expecting him to be wrong.

973
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:24,680
Speaker 4: They were they hoping he was wrong? Or are they

974
00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:25,600
Speaker 4: happy to confirm it.

975
00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:28,680
Speaker 1: I think that the guys who built this satellite wanted

976
00:47:28,719 --> 00:47:31,560
Speaker 1: him to be right because they set out to measure it, and,

977
00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:34,200
Speaker 1: you know, to prove that this effect is real. So

978
00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:36,719
Speaker 1: I suspect they wanted him to be right. But I

979
00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:40,120
Speaker 1: was rooting against Einstein. I definitely wanted him to be wrong.

980
00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:42,920
Speaker 1: Oh man, I got nothing against the guy. I mean,

981
00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:44,759
Speaker 1: I don't know him at all. But it would be

982
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:47,319
Speaker 1: super cool to measure a different effect, right, to go

983
00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:49,920
Speaker 1: up there and have these super sensitive devices that can

984
00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:52,440
Speaker 1: measure the curvature of space and you see something weird,

985
00:47:52,520 --> 00:47:56,400
Speaker 1: something non Einsteinian, something that gives us a clue about

986
00:47:56,440 --> 00:47:59,480
Speaker 1: how the future theory of gravity needs to look.

987
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:01,440
Speaker 4: So you always I want everyone to be wrong, Daniel,

988
00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:06,000
Speaker 4: that seems like a difficult perspective to have as a collaborator.

989
00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:09,080
Speaker 1: No, but together we all want to discover flaws in

990
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:12,160
Speaker 1: our theory because those are the potential learning moments. Right.

991
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:15,280
Speaker 1: When our theory predicts something that doesn't happen, or fails

992
00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:18,000
Speaker 1: to predict something that does happen, that's a time when

993
00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:20,520
Speaker 1: we can pull on that thread and unravel some mystery

994
00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:24,160
Speaker 1: and reveal something deep about the universe. So it's cool

995
00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:27,400
Speaker 1: that Einstein was right. It's awesome. It's need kudos to

996
00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:29,640
Speaker 1: these folks who built this experiment. But I think would

997
00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:32,279
Speaker 1: have been much more cool if they saw something weird

998
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:34,600
Speaker 1: and new that gives us a clue about how to

999
00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:36,480
Speaker 1: build a theory of quantum gravity.

1000
00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:38,279
Speaker 4: Right, or at least maybe like a clue as to

1001
00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:45,239
Speaker 4: how to put together you know, general relativity and quantum mechanics, right,

1002
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:48,759
Speaker 4: because that's still the big mystery, and probably confirming this further,

1003
00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:51,960
Speaker 4: it just makes it harder to figure out what's going on.

1004
00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:55,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're sort of stuck, right. I deeply believe that

1005
00:48:55,080 --> 00:48:58,239
Speaker 1: Einstein's theory can't be a real description of nature. But

1006
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:01,040
Speaker 1: until it fails, we don't really know what to replace

1007
00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:03,719
Speaker 1: it with. We don't really have a better idea, and

1008
00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:06,279
Speaker 1: people are working all sorts of stuff string theory and

1009
00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:09,200
Speaker 1: loop quantum gravity, and we have podcast episodes on that

1010
00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:11,439
Speaker 1: you can check out. But so far none of those

1011
00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:15,160
Speaker 1: really work. None of those succeed in unifying quantum mechanics

1012
00:49:15,200 --> 00:49:17,880
Speaker 1: and gravity, and so we're still a lot of loss.

1013
00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:20,680
Speaker 1: And you know, we could continue to work theoretically, just

1014
00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:23,400
Speaker 1: like waiting to have a good idea, but I'm hoping

1015
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:26,120
Speaker 1: to get a clue experimentally. I'm hoping to break one

1016
00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:28,719
Speaker 1: of these things to see some new weird effect that

1017
00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:31,600
Speaker 1: requires us, that inspires us to come up with a

1018
00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:32,160
Speaker 1: new theory.

1019
00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:34,320
Speaker 4: Right, and you're a quantum physicist, so I'm going to

1020
00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:37,360
Speaker 4: assume that you're just going to by default, root for

1021
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:38,800
Speaker 4: the other team to be wrong.

1022
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:41,879
Speaker 1: That's what experimentalists try to do. Right. We're not out

1023
00:49:41,920 --> 00:49:44,160
Speaker 1: to just confirm people's theories as correct. We're out there

1024
00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:47,239
Speaker 1: to discover new stuff, to see weird things in the

1025
00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:50,560
Speaker 1: universe that give you clues just about how things really work.

1026
00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:53,480
Speaker 4: Well, in this case, they confirm Esein's theories, and it's

1027
00:49:53,520 --> 00:49:56,520
Speaker 4: pretty cool that you can go out there and see

1028
00:49:56,520 --> 00:49:58,880
Speaker 4: the bending of space, or at least measure it with

1029
00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:02,440
Speaker 4: really acrid balls made out of course, but you know

1030
00:50:02,520 --> 00:50:04,880
Speaker 4: it's something you can measure and test and probe and

1031
00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:08,200
Speaker 4: get data on and know that it's actually happening in

1032
00:50:08,239 --> 00:50:08,840
Speaker 4: this universe.

1033
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:12,040
Speaker 1: Weird stuff like that predicted by this beautiful mathematical theory

1034
00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:15,600
Speaker 1: is real. Like space really is getting twisted around the Earth.

1035
00:50:15,719 --> 00:50:18,880
Speaker 1: This is not just a calculation. This is our universe.

1036
00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:21,280
Speaker 4: All right. Well, we hope you enjoyed that, and please

1037
00:50:21,320 --> 00:50:24,480
Speaker 4: remember to turn your chicken or turn off the stove

1038
00:50:24,840 --> 00:50:27,640
Speaker 4: as you listen to this podcast. We don't want to

1039
00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:30,719
Speaker 4: cause any accidents out there, at least not here on Earth,

1040
00:50:30,760 --> 00:50:31,440
Speaker 4: maybe in space.

1041
00:50:31,520 --> 00:50:33,400
Speaker 1: It's all right, and pay attention to your kids.

1042
00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:36,560
Speaker 4: Well, thanks for joining us, See you next time.

1043
00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:47,280
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening, and remember that Daniel and Jorge Explain

1044
00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:50,640
Speaker 1: the Universe is a production of iHeart Radio. For more

1045
00:50:50,680 --> 00:50:55,319
Speaker 1: podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

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