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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds and Maga is melting down.

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Speaker 2: Over a woke Marxist American pope from Chicago. We have

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Speaker 2: such a great show for you today. The Lincoln Project's

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Speaker 2: own Stuart Steven stops by to talk about how it's

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Speaker 2: going in Trump's America not very well. Then we'll talk

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Speaker 2: to congressional candidate Dajia Fox about her run for Congress

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Speaker 2: and why we need gen Z energy in Congress. Plus,

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Speaker 2: we have a special bonus from our YouTube channel where

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Speaker 2: we talk to investigative journalist Carol Kyle Dwalder about how

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Speaker 2: AI is taking over all our lives. But first the news.

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Speaker 3: So, Molly, I'm going to shock you here. The guy

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Speaker 3: who wrote the book on deals, he only makes the

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Speaker 3: best deals. He's hedging again because he's not very good

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Speaker 3: at deals. That's the thing that happens all the time.

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Speaker 3: It's really not shocking at all.

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Speaker 2: You know, It's funny because it's like we've been covering

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Speaker 2: this fucking guy for almost a decade of our lives,

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Speaker 2: and during that time we've all gotten a lot older.

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Speaker 2: My youth. I've seen my youth squandered by covering Donald Trumps.

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Speaker 2: So here's the deal. We're in a trade war with China.

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Speaker 2: The problem is we cannot onshore manufacturing by making things

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Speaker 2: more expensive. We need to onshore manufacturing by building manufacturing

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Speaker 2: plants in America. I mean, the whole thing is just

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Speaker 2: completely dumb and poorly thought out, like so many things

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Speaker 2: in Trump world. Now Trump is starting to see you'll

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Speaker 2: remember Peter Navarro ninety deals in ninety days. So we

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Speaker 2: have one deal so far, and it's with Britain, which

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Speaker 2: is like our seventh or eighth biggest trading partner, which

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Speaker 2: is very nice, but it is also a country where

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Speaker 2: we actually buy more from them than they from us.

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Speaker 2: So whatever. Anyway, the point of this whole thing is

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Speaker 2: that he's starting to feel the walls close in, and

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Speaker 2: as the walls close in, he realizes that, in fact,

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Speaker 2: he really does need to deal with China. Ergo, he

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Speaker 2: is suggesting cutting the tariffs already, which is, by the way,

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Speaker 2: a sign of weakness. And I don't know if you

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Speaker 2: know this about Xijingping, but I think he's going to

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Speaker 2: end up winning the trade war. I think like signs

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Speaker 2: of weakness before negotiating. Makes me think that one hundred

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Speaker 2: and forty five percent levy, which is going to go

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Speaker 2: to eighty percent, will ultimately go down to a lot less.

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Speaker 2: So we're in a trade war and we're already losing

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Speaker 2: and it hasn't even really started. This is a pretty

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Speaker 2: good sign that Trump is rethinking the what's going on

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Speaker 2: and good except the only thing is that, as we've

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Speaker 2: seen from port traffic, there's going to be a shock

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Speaker 2: here and it's going to be inflationary, and just coming

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Speaker 2: back from it is probably going to put us in

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Speaker 2: a recession. So stagflation for everyone.

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Speaker 3: Great. So, Molly, we have a reoccurring character on this show,

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Speaker 3: particularly our old show. We'd have to talk about this

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Speaker 3: one all the time. We've named we've nicknamed her Judge

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Speaker 3: Box of Wine now that.

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Speaker 2: Is from season one.

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Speaker 3: Yes, the wine, you know, can be spelled two different ways.

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Speaker 3: We're gonna go out record and say it's w h

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Speaker 3: I an E because we don't want to cast any

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Speaker 3: aspersions on our Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yes, as a sober alcoholic, it's a self diagnosed disease.

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Speaker 2: And far be it from me to diagnose almost every

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Speaker 2: person in this administration with a drinking problem. We would

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Speaker 2: never do that. It's not every person, it's just a

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Speaker 2: few prominent.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, there's just just a few who display strong,

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Speaker 3: strong signs. Anyway, So miss Piro to say that the

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Speaker 3: people who have worked with her in the past have

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Speaker 3: bad things to say about her whole leadership style is

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Speaker 3: a rastic, drastic understatement. But mister Trump's like, now she

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Speaker 3: should be the interim DC attorney.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, judge, box of wine going to US attorney in

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Speaker 2: Washington is great for any number of reasons. One the

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Speaker 2: Ed Martin pushback worked, Okay, all that had to happen

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Speaker 2: was vulnerable North Carolina Republican Tom Tillis had to say,

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Speaker 2: I'm not sure about this. And by the way, RFK

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Speaker 2: is right now fucking up every kind of thing he

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Speaker 2: possibly can with the health stuff. It's a complete and

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Speaker 2: utter disaster. And so I want to point out how

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Speaker 2: easy it would have been just to torpedo that nomination

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Speaker 2: had Republicans just had a tiny bit of a spine. Instead,

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Speaker 2: we have children dying of measles. Okay, So just want

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Speaker 2: to point this out when we look at this story,

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Speaker 2: which is these incredibly cowardly Republicans could have punted on

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Speaker 2: the RFK junior nomination and children who have died of

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Speaker 2: measles would be alive today. Okay, So I want you

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Speaker 2: to put that in your PA. That's you know that

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Speaker 2: there are a number of Republican senators, maybe all of them,

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Speaker 2: with the exception of Cindy Hyde Smith who know and

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Speaker 2: Tommy Tuberville, who know better than having RFK in that job.

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Speaker 2: And they did it anyway because they didn't want a headache,

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Speaker 2: and because they took this job because they're lazy and

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Speaker 2: not good in anything. So the point of this story

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Speaker 2: is we're going to have Judge box of Wine as

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Speaker 2: the interim US Attorney in Washington. It's going to be

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Speaker 2: destructive and fucked up, but also, as with so many

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Speaker 2: things in the Trump administration, inadvertently hilarious. So we will

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Speaker 2: try to grab the humor from this situation. Well, you know,

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Speaker 2: we will laugh to keep from crying. We will delight

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Speaker 2: in the stupidity, but we will also know that this

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Speaker 2: is not how any of this is supposed to happen,

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Speaker 2: and that this is degrading our great democracy. You know,

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Speaker 2: he puts in these very loud and competent people and

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Speaker 2: thank God for that.

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Speaker 3: Speaking of incompetence, we are seeing one of the most

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Speaker 3: major blowbacks this administration has seen so far, with Trump

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Speaker 3: picking Casey means for Surgeon General. Casey means for those

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Speaker 3: who don't know, is an RFK Junior. Lackey, particularly known

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Speaker 3: for as Laura Lumer, leaked this week publishing a newsletter

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Speaker 3: on how she manifested her husband.

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Speaker 2: Yes, who among us has not manifested their spouse? I

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Speaker 2: manifest all the time For Matt Greenfield, We've gone down

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Speaker 2: the fucking rabbit hole here of serious fucking craziness. You

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Speaker 2: open the door to RFK Junior, you put him in

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Speaker 2: charge of your healthcare, and you're going to have things

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Speaker 2: like this. So she's a best selling author. Everybody likes that.

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Speaker 2: She's a wellness influencer. Who doesn't like that she has

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Speaker 2: written a book called This Surprising Connection between Metabolism and

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Speaker 2: Lemonless Health. Oh, we're definitely all going to die. So

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Speaker 2: work with our wonderful Secretary of Health and Human Services,

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Speaker 2: Robert F. Kennedy Junior, to ensure successful implification of ore.

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Speaker 2: We are so incredibly fucked. The good news is that

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Speaker 2: they don't like pharmaceuticals. They don't like food industry, they

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Speaker 2: don't like vaccines. They think the FDA is corrupt. We

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Speaker 2: are so incredibly fucked up.

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Speaker 3: I think there is good news though, that this is

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Speaker 3: really seeming like this is putting up the hackles of

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Speaker 3: a lot of people. Even rfk's old running mate is

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Speaker 3: really disappointed about this pick.

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Speaker 2: Yes, but also I want to point out my favorite

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Speaker 2: part of this whole story is involved in this is

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Speaker 2: ronan On Johnson. Of course he's involved because he's a

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Speaker 2: fucking incredible lunatic. We should not be suppressed. Stuart Steve

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Speaker 2: There's a legendary campaign manager and the author of the

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Speaker 2: conspiracy to end America five ways my old party is

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Speaker 2: to driving our democracy to autocracy. Welcome to fast Politics,

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Speaker 2: Stewart Stevens.

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Speaker 4: Thanks for asking me to the party.

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Speaker 2: So another day in Trump's America.

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Speaker 4: This is doing great.

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Speaker 2: It's going great. It's like every time we make this

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Speaker 2: guy president, it's a fucking disaster.

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Speaker 4: You know he's going to get to It's just it's

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Speaker 4: a bit of personally. If I stay away from Newark, it's.

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Speaker 2: Not we laugh to keep from crying. But talk to me,

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Speaker 2: they'll be around.

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Speaker 4: Anybody that has measles. Look, you know, I think it's

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Speaker 4: the sort of most disheartening thing about all this Trump

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Speaker 4: stuff is it's not just the Republican Party that collapsed

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Speaker 4: in Bennett's snee back in sixteen. The way we've seen

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Speaker 4: these other institutions, like so much of the legal because

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Speaker 4: some of the legal community do it, some of the

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Speaker 4: great universities like one up the street from U Columbia.

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Speaker 4: And I think it's just a little parable or lesson

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Speaker 4: in how fragile this thing we call democracy is and

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Speaker 4: how much it's based upon goodwill. Now there's the flip

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Speaker 4: side of that is you do have people fighting back.

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Speaker 4: I think that the twenty four election was greatly misunderstood.

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Speaker 4: You know, it was an election that any non incumbent

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Speaker 4: had a great chance to win. The approval rating of

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Speaker 4: Biden was at forty No candidates ever gotten two points

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Speaker 4: higher than incumbent party's president. The right Track was at

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Speaker 4: twenty seven, which is just a saggering number. No incumbent

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Speaker 4: parties ever won when it was below forty five, which

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Speaker 4: is why we see Nikki Haley. She was doing a

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Speaker 4: lot better than Trump. And I think that that's been

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Speaker 4: confused with the idea that there was some reordering of

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Speaker 4: our politics. No, there wasn't that there was some great

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Speaker 4: breakthrough the Republican Party and that it was an endorsement

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Speaker 4: of Trump is And I think that you know what

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Speaker 4: we're seeing is they knew and campaign that's Project twenty

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Speaker 4: twenty five was poised, and then now they're making people

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Speaker 4: drink it and they gotten any better. So I look

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Speaker 4: at the Democratic Party like this incredibly valuable company that's

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Speaker 4: just under bad management. It's like they were Apple and

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Speaker 4: they fired Steve Jobs and Rovin Scully, but the value

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Speaker 4: is still there, and you know, hopefully they'll be able

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Speaker 4: to get it together.

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Speaker 2: So let's let's go down that rabbit hole for a minute. First,

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Speaker 2: let's talk about kind of what Trump is trying to enact.

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Speaker 2: I feel like we're not getting a lot of intel

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Speaker 2: on this. People aren't talking about it because nobody gives

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Speaker 2: a shit about Congress because they made themselves so incredibly

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Speaker 2: irrelevant by rubbers camping everything that Trump wants to do.

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Speaker 2: But they are trying to pass a budget and it

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Speaker 2: is a fucking disaster, and they believe they're going to

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Speaker 2: pass it in fifteen days or something, and FYI, they

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Speaker 2: have not agreed on anything. The only way to pay

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Speaker 2: for these tax cuts is to basically close every rural

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Speaker 2: hospital and nursing home and politically just commit supuku discuss.

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Speaker 4: It's a great way to put it. Yeah, you can't

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Speaker 4: get there unless you were committed to deep cuts in

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Speaker 4: the military. They're not. That's the dirty little secret of

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Speaker 4: the budget. This is why we have a deficit. People

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Speaker 4: like the stuff that they get from the government. And

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Speaker 4: you know, I think the greatest irony here and this

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Speaker 4: is then true for a long time, but it sort

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Speaker 4: of gets highlighted in these moments. The states that most

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Speaker 4: depend upon the federal government are these poor red states

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Speaker 4: like my home state of Mississippi. About forty percent of

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Speaker 4: Mississippi state budget forty percent comes from the federal government,

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Speaker 4: which I really don't understand why we don't call it socialism,

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Speaker 4: and you make these cuts and these are the people

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Speaker 4: that are going to be hurt. I mean, I was

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Speaker 4: looking at a map that talking about closing some social

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Speaker 4: security offices in Misissippi. Well they aren't closing them. They're

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Speaker 4: not talking about it now. They are because of the

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Speaker 4: date when one closed first of May. I was doing

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Speaker 4: like a little Google Maps thing you know, you're going

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Speaker 4: to have to drive a lot of people one hundred

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Speaker 4: plus miles to get their such security office will at

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Speaker 4: the same time, they're cutting the backstaff that would answer

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Speaker 4: the phone and do all these helplines. And that's not

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Speaker 4: going to affect anybody who's not dependent upon Social Security.

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Speaker 4: And that's just it. Scott Galloway made this point, I thought,

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Speaker 4: really precisely as he is a way of doing this

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Speaker 4: is the fundamental definition of a cryptocracy. You know, you

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Speaker 4: have a group of people around Trump who are making

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Speaker 4: a lot of money and who are using the government

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Speaker 4: to make themselves richer while others are going to be poorer.

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Speaker 4: And that's it. I mean, there really is a blueprint.

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Speaker 4: If we sat down, as sort of a social science experiment,

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Speaker 4: said how do you make them America poorer? Well, we've

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Speaker 4: lost thrillions of dollars of wealth since Trump took office.

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Speaker 4: These terror servants saying, how do you make America less healthy?

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Speaker 4: Will you put some lunatic like RFK in charge of

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Speaker 4: national health? How would you make America less competitive in

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Speaker 4: the world and have a darker than brighter future. You

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Speaker 4: would cut research, You would make our educational institutions, which

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Speaker 4: really are the great driver or certainly one of them

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Speaker 4: of wealth in America. Why is there so much money

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Speaker 4: in Boston? Why why is Massachusetts so rich? And you

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Speaker 4: know what, it was a great driver in California. And

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Speaker 4: you're going to cut these research budgets. It's really what

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Speaker 4: would you do if you're trying to make the world

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Speaker 4: more unstable and more dangerous? You would cut the greatest,

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Speaker 4: most successful alliance in history, NATO. And you know, Republicans

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Speaker 4: have just gone along with it. I don't think it's

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Speaker 4: complicated or hard to understand, because I think it's just

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Speaker 4: sheer cowardice and we should just accept that cowardice is

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Speaker 4: probably a norm that all of us who are human

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Speaker 4: reset too, and we should be surprised by courage.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Another person who said it was a cryptocracy was

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Speaker 2: Ken Griffin. He is the biggest Republican donor, not a

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Speaker 2: Trump donor, but the biggest Republican donor there is. Said

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Speaker 2: it's a cryptocracy. So clearly things are not going great,

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Speaker 2: right because for things, you know the fact that you

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Speaker 2: have people like this saying what the fuck are you

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Speaker 2: doing is probably a bad sign. I mean, and honestly, again,

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Speaker 2: I think you and I can agree, thank god, right,

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Speaker 2: because if it were going great, we'd be they'd be

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Speaker 2: just disappearing grad students left and right, and we'd be

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Speaker 2: really on our way to orbone it's hungary, whereas right

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Speaker 2: now we're sort of in a weird period where my

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Speaker 2: man is doing anti democratic things but also destroying the economy.

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Speaker 2: So let's talk through. I thought the incredible hail Mary

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Speaker 2: passed yesterday, Donald Trump said he would like to tax

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Speaker 2: people who make over five million dollars. This is the

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Speaker 2: only reason he got elected, as far as I can tell,

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Speaker 2: was to protect these people's money.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. You know, I've never seen a poll in all

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Speaker 4: my life, and we used to put this on polls

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Speaker 4: where taxing people who make over even a million dollars

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Speaker 4: didn't test to the good and the higher you put

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Speaker 4: that number, I mean, if you ask people, should billionaires

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Speaker 4: pay more in taxes, it's like a ninety five to five,

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Speaker 4: you know, I mean everybody, of course they take that,

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Speaker 4: of course. And I think this is Trump, in this

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Speaker 4: jumbled mess of a mind, in this jumble collection of

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Speaker 4: weirdos and freaks that he has around him. You know,

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Speaker 4: it's always the last person in the room. Somebody sticks

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Speaker 4: a poll in front of him and says, look, you're

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Speaker 4: the first president well except the previous Trump administration that

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Speaker 4: is less popular one hundred days after you took office

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Speaker 4: than you were an election day, which is really interesting

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Speaker 4: to think about. You know, it's a very American thing

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Speaker 4: to say after I didn't vote for this person, but

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Speaker 4: I'll give them a chance. So you know, at this point,

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Speaker 4: Biden was near sixty, Obama was in the mid sixties.

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Speaker 4: Even Bush in after the two and four election was

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Speaker 4: higher than the he was an election day. Trump is lower.

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Speaker 4: So what does that mean? That means people who voted

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Speaker 4: for Trump are having a lot of doubts about it.

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Speaker 4: And that's that's difficult to do this quickly. It's always

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Speaker 4: difficult to get any of us to admit that we

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Speaker 4: made a mistake. So you've got this problem. You have

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Speaker 4: these congressional candidates out there who are beginning to panic.

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Speaker 4: I mean, they know what happened in twenty ten to Democrats,

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Speaker 4: they know what happened in nineteen ninety four, and they're

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Speaker 4: looking at this and seeing this could be a blood bat.

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Speaker 4: You know, we can move thirty to forty seats. What

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Speaker 4: is it that we're supposed to campaign own, how is

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Speaker 4: anyone's life better that's been accomplished here? So he says, oh, look,

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Speaker 4: you know, I'm going to go out and say this,

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Speaker 4: maybe it'll help. At the heart of it is that

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Speaker 4: there's no governing philosophy to the Republican Party anymore. Knowing

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Speaker 4: can and good faith articulate this is a theory of

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Speaker 4: government and say what you will. He used to be

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Speaker 4: able to do that. You could say, well that those

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Speaker 4: are the worst ideas I've ever heard in my life. Right,

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Speaker 4: A lot of people said that, you know, but you

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Speaker 4: can have a debate between some conservative and Elizabeth Warren

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Speaker 4: and it could be an interesting debate and she could

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Speaker 4: defend one another. But there's not now there's not a

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Speaker 4: center right party in America. And I think that that

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Speaker 4: lack of any sort of coherent theory of government, a

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Speaker 4: purpose of government, is at the root of all this,

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Speaker 4: because if you don't believe in anything, if you don't

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Speaker 4: have any idea that government should work this way, it's

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Speaker 4: just a series of these chaotic missteps, and it's just

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Speaker 4: you end up with this mess that we have now,

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Speaker 4: a government that is failing it its basic purposes.

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Speaker 2: So you don't think Trump is going to increase taxes

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Speaker 2: for people who make over five million dollars a year.

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Speaker 4: No.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's such a great thing for him to say,

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Speaker 2: because it's like, yeah, but of course he's not going

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Speaker 2: to do it. No. Look, so then we get to

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Speaker 2: the question of is it malpractice that Democrats aren't pulling

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Speaker 2: better when they're running against someone who is literally doing

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Speaker 2: all the most unpopular things. So I'm going to ask you.

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Speaker 2: I know you're a Republican. Jesse and I both pretty lefty.

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Speaker 2: I'm right, I'm less lefty than Jesse is because I

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Speaker 2: come from a lot of privilege, but I'm still lefty.

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Speaker 2: I want you to sort of explain to us why

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Speaker 2: you think democrats can't like it's clear there's a populism.

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Speaker 2: It is not so different than what Democrats want to do,

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Speaker 2: and yet somehow it's not working.

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Speaker 4: So discuss Yeah, you know, I've been thinking about this

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Speaker 4: a lot, and I think it's a really interesting question.

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Speaker 4: Argument can be made, a case can be made that

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Speaker 4: the Democrats are still trapped in this mindset that we

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Speaker 4: have news cycles. When we had news cycles, you could

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Speaker 4: at least attempt to push a message that was unified.

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Speaker 4: I mean, all these campaigns we said around, we'd let's

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Speaker 4: have an education week now, right. I never really could

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Speaker 4: do it, but we could at least pretend that we

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Speaker 4: could do it. I mean, I can't remember. In two thousand,

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Speaker 4: when I was working on the Bush campaign, then the

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Speaker 4: New York Times went online at midnight East Coast time.

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Speaker 4: You could sit there, so that was eleven o'clock in Austin.

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Speaker 4: You could sit there and you could look at your watch,

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Speaker 4: and by eleven fifteen you would be getting calls from

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Speaker 4: reporters that were basically using the New York Times as

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Speaker 4: assignment editors for what they were going to work on.

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Speaker 4: So we don't have that anymore. That's been shattered. They're

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Speaker 4: no gatekeepers all of that. So what does that mean

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Speaker 4: to me? I think it means you shouldn't If you're

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Speaker 4: asking yourself, is that the right thing to do to

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Speaker 4: go out was like a Bernie an AOC campaign Or

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Speaker 4: should you be talking about just gas prices? That's the

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Speaker 4: wrong question, because you should be doing everything, because different

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Speaker 4: things are going to be heard by different people, because

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Speaker 4: our entire media is so fragmented. Smart you should just

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Speaker 4: flood the zone with all of these messages and I

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Speaker 4: think the one thing, if there's one lesson out of

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Speaker 4: the last year in politics, it's the power of passion.

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Speaker 4: And you know, there still is this really unfortunate assumption

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Speaker 4: inside a lot of consulting community. I think it's worse

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Speaker 4: on the Democratic side because consulting community on the Republican

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Speaker 4: side has kind of been reduced to just following Trump.

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Speaker 4: You can focus group your way out of this, you

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Speaker 4: can test it your way out of this. And the

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Speaker 4: super Pac Future Forward that was started to support Biden

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Speaker 4: and then went to Harris is a perfect example. I mean,

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Speaker 4: I think they're really smart. I think they made some

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Speaker 4: good ads, but they had almost a billion dollars to

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Speaker 4: spend and they were testing everything. They had this system,

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Speaker 4: We're going to test every ad three times. So it's

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Speaker 4: like it was just so clear that these transgender attacks

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Speaker 4: were hurting Democrats across the board because it was a

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Speaker 4: perfect example to sort of use as a hyperbole of

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Speaker 4: Wochism or whatever, and it was the easiest thing in

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Speaker 4: the world to push back on. This was a policy

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Speaker 4: that was adopted under Trump by his handpicked head of

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Speaker 4: prison and as far as anybody can figure out, only

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Speaker 4: happened once, right, So you know, we made an ass

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Speaker 4: and take very long the Lincoln Project to put back

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Speaker 4: on it. Gave it to the folks at Future four

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Speaker 4: because super pacn coordinated. They said that we love this.

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Speaker 4: Like a week later it wasn't running. I was like, hey, guys,

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Speaker 4: what's going on? They got well, he didn't test well,

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Speaker 4: and you know, I just want to say to him,

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Speaker 4: do you think Willie Horton tested well? Like people were like,

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Speaker 4: you know, I really liked that bit about the guy

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Speaker 4: that shot somebody in the face. No, people are never

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Speaker 4: going to say that, but it does work. And you

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Speaker 4: can use a kind of social science experiment. Every Democratic

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Speaker 4: Senate candidate who was attacked with this who responded on

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Speaker 4: camera pushing back on it one and everyone who was

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Speaker 4: attacking didn't lost. So that's a lesson in this.

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Speaker 2: That's how you get to a Reuben Diego Trump voter. Right.

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Speaker 2: What I think is so sort of lightning in a

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Speaker 2: bottle about what Trump did was that he went everywhere

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Speaker 2: he promised every time he did that politics is downstream

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Speaker 2: of culture. He became part of the culture. He influenced

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Speaker 2: the politics, and it just worked. It worked so well

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Speaker 2: that people came out, they filled out for him, They

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Speaker 2: voted for him, and then they left the bottom of

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Speaker 2: the ticket blank in a lot of states. So that

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Speaker 2: is really the thesis, right A Brightbarn.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Look, I think this has been true and really

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Speaker 4: obvious since the Clinton Bush election. You know, I can

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Speaker 4: remember as a Republican when Clinton went on our senior

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Speaker 4: hall played the saxophone and we said, well, this race

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Speaker 4: is over. No one wants to president in the United States.

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Speaker 4: Who's going to put on sunglasses and play a saxophone

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Speaker 4: on a late night showed.

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Speaker 2: Oh you guys thought you'd win on that.

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Speaker 4: And well you were smarter. By the end of the campaign,

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Speaker 4: Bush would have played a banjo in his underwear someplace,

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Speaker 4: you know, because they realized it was working. So I

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Speaker 4: think this has been apparent to people. And you know,

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Speaker 4: in two thousand at the Lincoln Project, when we started

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Speaker 4: a podcast, we had a lot of friends and support

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Speaker 4: us going like, Gus, what are you doing starting a podcast?

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Speaker 4: We started a streaming show because we saw this that

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Speaker 4: you had to communicate in these different ways, and now

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Speaker 4: you have twenty four people go it was the podcast

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Speaker 4: literally wasn't the caest election, but you know, it just

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Speaker 4: shows the difference that has occurred here. But look, the

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Speaker 4: thing that frustrates me most about the Democratic Party is

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Speaker 4: a lack of swagger, a lack of affirmative assertion. We're

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Speaker 4: right there wrong And I hate this stuff. I read

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Speaker 4: like we're going to go out and have these listening

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Speaker 4: tours and try to figure out what we did wrong.

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Speaker 4: I don't know. I mean, if you do that stuff,

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Speaker 4: I wouldn't talk about it. And they're talking about it

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Speaker 4: because they think that they have to do a certain pendance. Bosses,

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Speaker 4: our donors are mad. But look, we're going to go

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Speaker 4: through this. You have to. I mean, nobody ever wins

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Speaker 4: the super Bowl if you walk out and think maybe

433
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:45,600
Speaker 4: we have a chance. I mean you have to believe

434
00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:47,919
Speaker 4: in a start that you're going to win and that

435
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:51,000
Speaker 4: you're right. And they need to use a language here

436
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:56,680
Speaker 4: that is accusatory and broad sweeping. Trump is a crook.

437
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:59,399
Speaker 4: It is the most corrupt administration by far in history.

438
00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:02,960
Speaker 4: Trump is portraying the greatest generation of what he's doing

439
00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:08,440
Speaker 4: in Ukraine and the way he's trying to demand basically

440
00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:12,439
Speaker 4: a protection racket with Ukraine. I mean, it's disgusting. You

441
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:15,439
Speaker 4: need to say these things. Don't be afraid of going

442
00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:18,919
Speaker 4: too far, and I think that element is inside the

443
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:22,800
Speaker 4: Democratic Party, and I think it really is not so

444
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:26,720
Speaker 4: much ideological. I mean, Fetterman's not bad at it, and

445
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:28,919
Speaker 4: he's sort of a different place than Bernie and AOC

446
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:31,960
Speaker 4: on all of these issues. So it's not a time

447
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:35,159
Speaker 4: for timidity. It's a time for boldness, and it's a

448
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:39,280
Speaker 4: time to if you really believe that democracy is a threat,

449
00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:42,480
Speaker 4: which you should to act like it to respond. It's

450
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:45,320
Speaker 4: still this confusion that the Democratic Party has, which is

451
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:48,360
Speaker 4: understandable and there's something admirable about this in a way

452
00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:51,280
Speaker 4: that their role is to be a governing party. No,

453
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:54,280
Speaker 4: I mean Johnathan last wrote about this brilliantly thought their

454
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:56,920
Speaker 4: role should be to be a dissident movement, and that's

455
00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:59,960
Speaker 4: what they should be looking at. How did dissident movements operate?

456
00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:02,639
Speaker 4: And they should be trying to stop all of this.

457
00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:05,920
Speaker 4: They shouldn't be worried that they're going to be seen

458
00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:10,159
Speaker 4: as uncompromising or they're not getting anything doing. You know,

459
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:14,919
Speaker 4: they should do what used to be Buckley said of conservatism,

460
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:17,280
Speaker 4: that stand in the wake of history and say no,

461
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:20,600
Speaker 4: that's what they should be doing, and doing it loudly.

462
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 2: Stuart Stevens. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you,

463
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:25,320
Speaker 2: thank you.

464
00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:25,680
Speaker 3: Molly.

465
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:32,760
Speaker 2: Dija Fox is a congressional candidate in Arizona seventh District.

466
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:37,320
Speaker 2: Welcome to Fast Politics. Oh my god, I'm so excited, Dija.

467
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:39,440
Speaker 5: Hello, thank you for having me.

468
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:42,200
Speaker 2: We just did the math and we have known each

469
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:44,480
Speaker 2: other very rufually. I mean, we don't know each other well,

470
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:47,399
Speaker 2: but for eight years. I'm going to embarrass you and

471
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:51,679
Speaker 2: tell the story of when I met you. Can I

472
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 2: do that for a minute, go for it. So we

473
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:59,399
Speaker 2: were at an event and Women's magazine honoring you. You

474
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:05,960
Speaker 2: have incredible story of your upbringing and how you grew up,

475
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:08,760
Speaker 2: and again you can tell I'm sure I'm making mistakes

476
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:10,879
Speaker 2: here because it was like almost a decade ago, but

477
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:17,160
Speaker 2: you grew up very modest circumstances, sometimes doing your homework

478
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:19,200
Speaker 2: in your car where you were living.

479
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:22,120
Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah, we didn't have Wi Fi at my home,

480
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:24,480
Speaker 5: so I would often have to take you know, go

481
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:28,840
Speaker 5: to the library and sometimes even sit outside to use that.

482
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:32,880
Speaker 2: But you did end up getting a scholarship to.

483
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 5: Barnard, actually to Columbia. But yes, Tywambia moving to New

484
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:41,160
Speaker 5: York on a full ride. At Columbia in twenty eighteen

485
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,880
Speaker 5: and became the first of my family to go to college.

486
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:46,879
Speaker 5: It could not have been more of a one to

487
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:49,240
Speaker 5: eighty from where I was at. Right. I wrote my

488
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:52,399
Speaker 5: college essays on my phone while working at the gas

489
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:58,920
Speaker 5: station after school, and I've since graduated and moved back

490
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:01,480
Speaker 5: to Arizona, where I'm now running for office.

491
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:06,800
Speaker 2: Let's talk about what it looks like in Arizona right now.

492
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:09,720
Speaker 2: Arizona is such an interesting state. The really one of

493
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 2: the very few states where you had Trump Reuben Diego voters.

494
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:16,439
Speaker 2: What does it take to win in Arizona and what

495
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:20,120
Speaker 2: does Arizona look like? And also, you're running in a primary,

496
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:22,480
Speaker 2: I want you to talk us through what your race

497
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:23,000
Speaker 2: looks like.

498
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:28,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, Arizona is an interesting place, right and

499
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:30,280
Speaker 5: it's one of the things I love most about it

500
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:35,000
Speaker 5: is that people here think really critically. But also, you know,

501
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:40,199
Speaker 5: we have a real group of independence out here. And

502
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:43,280
Speaker 5: so you're right to say that this last election showed

503
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:46,600
Speaker 5: us some interesting numbers, right that Trump ended up winning

504
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:50,440
Speaker 5: out here in Arizona. But we also saw Reuben Diego,

505
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:53,359
Speaker 5: a Democrat, pull through in the Senate. And you know

506
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,159
Speaker 5: what I think is maybe most interesting of all is

507
00:27:56,200 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 5: that we saw our abortion initiative, our citizens ballot initiative

508
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:05,359
Speaker 5: pass and with a historic number of signatures to qualify,

509
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:09,399
Speaker 5: they gathered something like eight hundred thousand, and so I

510
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:12,240
Speaker 5: think it's safe to say that here in Arizona, people

511
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:16,400
Speaker 5: are with us on the issues. And when we look

512
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 5: at a race like mine, I'm running for congress in

513
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:24,000
Speaker 5: Congressional Districts seven here in Arizona that includes parts of

514
00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:29,400
Speaker 5: South and West Tucson, my hometown, two neighborhoods up in Phoenix,

515
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 5: and hundreds of miles of the US Mexico border. And

516
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 5: my district is one of the safer and bluer congressional

517
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:42,160
Speaker 5: districts in Arizona. And so what's really on the line

518
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 5: in this race and in this primary is an opportunity

519
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:51,400
Speaker 5: to one make history by electing one of the youngest members,

520
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:55,160
Speaker 5: the youngest member, and the first woman of my generation.

521
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:55,760
Speaker 2: Right.

522
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:58,240
Speaker 5: And then you know, the other piece that I'll point

523
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:02,160
Speaker 5: out here is that in this primary I'm running against

524
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:06,360
Speaker 5: two other folks, and I think what makes me stand

525
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 5: out is I'm the break from the status quo. I'm

526
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:11,479
Speaker 5: not a career politician. I got my start as an

527
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 5: activist a decade ago, and so I know power from

528
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:19,600
Speaker 5: the other side of the diis.

529
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:19,320
Speaker 4: You know.

530
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:23,240
Speaker 5: And I think in this moment where Trump has really

531
00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:26,840
Speaker 5: thrown us into a sense of lawlessness, right where it

532
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:30,480
Speaker 5: feels like rules suddenly don't matter, we need someone with

533
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:34,400
Speaker 5: an advocacy lens right, with an activist's experience, to be

534
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 5: an obstructionist to his agenda and to make people at

535
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 5: home feel like somebody is fighting for them.

536
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:42,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would love you to talk about that, because

537
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 2: as a member of Congress, you have power, but you

538
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:48,360
Speaker 2: also don't have that much power. So how do you

539
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:53,400
Speaker 2: feel like you could use this congressional seat to really

540
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:54,960
Speaker 2: push against this?

541
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 5: I mean, I think first things first, Right, just by

542
00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:01,280
Speaker 5: the nature of me being in this seat, the dynamics

543
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 5: of power in Washington would look different. As it stands,

544
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 5: something like one in five Americans are of my generation

545
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:12,400
Speaker 5: Gen Z, and yet we have a single representative in Congress,

546
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:16,160
Speaker 5: Like that is a true representation problem, right, And by

547
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:19,320
Speaker 5: the nature of having someone not just a young person

548
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:22,960
Speaker 5: for whom the climate crisis is not theoretical, right, for

549
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:25,720
Speaker 5: whom I am a part of the first generation of

550
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:28,440
Speaker 5: women to have less rights than our mothers, right, Like,

551
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 5: I bring a different perspective to this work by the

552
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 5: nature of my age. The other thing I'll say, as

553
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:36,760
Speaker 5: it relates to age and how I would do this

554
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:39,520
Speaker 5: job differently, is that Donald Trump has been running for

555
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 5: president since I was fifteen years old. The entirety of

556
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:48,600
Speaker 5: my sort of political consciousness has been affected by this

557
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:51,360
Speaker 5: man and the circus he is running up in DC.

558
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:55,640
Speaker 5: And so when we ask how would I do things differently,

559
00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:58,840
Speaker 5: I think you're right to say that under a Trump trifecta,

560
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 5: it feels like even people holding some of the offices

561
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 5: with the most power seem to have their hands tied

562
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:08,959
Speaker 5: on what they can do. My commitment is that I

563
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:12,920
Speaker 5: would learn the ins and outs of Capitol Hill, right,

564
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:17,120
Speaker 5: things like parliamentary maneuvers, to be a true obstructionist to

565
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 5: his agenda, especially when it comes to tax cuts for

566
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:24,280
Speaker 5: the billionaires and most wealthy among us.

567
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:24,600
Speaker 4: Right.

568
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:27,560
Speaker 5: And then the next thing I'll say, and I think

569
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 5: this can't be understated, is that we need more effective messengers.

570
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:36,760
Speaker 2: Right. I was actually about to bring that up.

571
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:40,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, go on, I mean I have interviewed these electeds, right,

572
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:42,840
Speaker 5: I've gone up to DC with my mini mic and

573
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 5: questions in hand, even you know, most recently at the

574
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:49,120
Speaker 5: joint address the State of the Union, if you will,

575
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:54,120
Speaker 5: and I left disappointed these folks are not keeping up

576
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:58,160
Speaker 5: in our own party with the changing media landscape. Right,

577
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:02,320
Speaker 5: something like thirty nine of adults under thirty get their

578
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:05,000
Speaker 5: news on TikTok, And so if we're going to stay

579
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:09,000
Speaker 5: competitive with the right, we need to build a more

580
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 5: effective media ecosystem and have the kind of representation and electeds,

581
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:20,600
Speaker 5: especially in these safe blue seats, who can meet the moment,

582
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:25,239
Speaker 5: who can translate a message into digital spaces, and our

583
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:28,800
Speaker 5: campaign is doing that already. We have over four million

584
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 5: organic views in the last month on Instagram and TikTok

585
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 5: and a special election primary in Arizona, right, Like, imagine

586
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:39,600
Speaker 5: what we could do with the power of that seat.

587
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:42,560
Speaker 5: And at a time where Democrats have an approval rating

588
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:45,960
Speaker 5: in the twenties, we should be looking to say, who

589
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:48,680
Speaker 5: are our new voices, what does new leadership look like,

590
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:51,760
Speaker 5: and who can we send into these these safer and

591
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:54,520
Speaker 5: bluer seats to make people at home feel fought for

592
00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:55,959
Speaker 5: so we don't lose them.

593
00:32:56,440 --> 00:33:01,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I also think that some of the problem that

594
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 2: we're seeing is just that there's just not enough explaining

595
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:11,160
Speaker 2: that goes on, and you can't necessarily explain the stuff

596
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 2: if you are using traditional platforms. So I'm thinking about

597
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:20,240
Speaker 2: AOC as ranking member of Oversight. One of the really

598
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 2: big enforced errors I think that Democrats did was they

599
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 2: refuse to make AOC ranking on Oversight, and the thinking

600
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 2: was it wasn't her turn because Jerry Connolly had been

601
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:34,200
Speaker 2: on oversight for a long time and a lot of

602
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:35,960
Speaker 2: people felt they owed him discussed.

603
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:38,760
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean that resonates with me. That kind of

604
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:42,400
Speaker 5: thinking out in DC is exactly what I'm going up

605
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:46,239
Speaker 5: against right now in my primary. Right this idea that

606
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 5: we need to wait our turn, that the Republican Party

607
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:51,160
Speaker 5: is going to go back to normal if we just

608
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:53,480
Speaker 5: give it some time, which young people like me know

609
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:58,239
Speaker 5: is not true. Right, that politics has forever changed in

610
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:01,240
Speaker 5: this country, and we needeople who are willing to meet

611
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:04,200
Speaker 5: that moment, who are willing to be the messengers who

612
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:07,000
Speaker 5: are going to do that explaining to help people understand

613
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:10,880
Speaker 5: what is happening in DC and not just the awful

614
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:13,520
Speaker 5: things that are being done on the right in real

615
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:17,279
Speaker 5: time and at a frequency that is impossible to keep

616
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:21,080
Speaker 5: up with but on our side, right, how are we

617
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:23,480
Speaker 5: fighting for them? And I think one of the I

618
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:26,440
Speaker 5: liked this phrase used unforced errors, right, sort of. One

619
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:28,480
Speaker 5: of the things I think Democrats are leaving on the

620
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:32,919
Speaker 5: table is they're failing to even explain what they're doing well. Right,

621
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:36,760
Speaker 5: But you know, you're right to say that our party

622
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 5: has a deficit of leadership in this moment, and we

623
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:44,760
Speaker 5: see it in moments where folks like AOC are denied

624
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:49,480
Speaker 5: leadership positions despite coming in at the top when asked.

625
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:52,040
Speaker 5: You know, there was a CNN poll I believe that

626
00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:56,719
Speaker 5: asked who in the Democratic Party which elected best represents

627
00:34:56,800 --> 00:35:00,160
Speaker 5: our core values? And AOC rose to the top right.

628
00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:04,560
Speaker 5: And so instead of listening to the people right and

629
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:11,120
Speaker 5: mirroring that in our leadership structures, DC has constantly and

630
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:15,400
Speaker 5: consistently tried the top down approach that they know better

631
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 5: than people, right, And we're seeing that been in elections

632
00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:22,560
Speaker 5: like mine, where there's pushback on having a true primary.

633
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 5: Right would rather have selections than elections because it feels safer,

634
00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:34,120
Speaker 5: more predictable people who are really entrenched in this establishment.

635
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:37,160
Speaker 5: But for folks like me, right, I am at the

636
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 5: doors listening to constituents and online right reading the TikTok comments,

637
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 5: taking a pulse for where our party and where young people,

638
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 5: in particular the future of our party are at. And

639
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:53,960
Speaker 5: we know that we need newer and younger voices if

640
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 5: we're going to have a party for my generation to inherit.

641
00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:01,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I'm wondering if you could explain to us

642
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:05,040
Speaker 2: one of the things that I think that traditional Democrats

643
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:08,320
Speaker 2: don't feel comfortable with is doing the kind of media

644
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:12,319
Speaker 2: that they probably need to explain to us what that

645
00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:14,200
Speaker 2: looks like and how they should do it.

646
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:18,000
Speaker 5: The media landscape has changed so much, even in the

647
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 5: last ten years. I had my first viral video in

648
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 5: twenty seventeen going toe to toe with my former senator,

649
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:30,440
Speaker 5: a Republican, Jeff Flake, over his attempts to defund planned parenthood. Right,

650
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:33,880
Speaker 5: I shouldn't fit his town hall, which Republicans do not

651
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:35,480
Speaker 5: seem to be hosting anymore.

652
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:38,359
Speaker 2: When they used to do town hall right in the.

653
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:41,960
Speaker 5: Era in which Republicans had town halls and like would

654
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:45,120
Speaker 5: go and be face to face with their constituents, a

655
00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:48,759
Speaker 5: bygone era of democracy. I fear, and I asked him

656
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:51,160
Speaker 5: why he is a middle aged white man was making

657
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:53,359
Speaker 5: decisions about me and my body, right, And he says

658
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:55,440
Speaker 5: this thing about how he supports policies that support the

659
00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 5: American Dream, and I ask him why he would deny

660
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:01,160
Speaker 5: me the American Dream. And millions of people overnight on

661
00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:05,600
Speaker 5: Twitter and Facebook saw that video, and I share that

662
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:08,400
Speaker 5: story to say that in the last what is that

663
00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 5: eight years since we've known each other, the landscape on

664
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 5: which we are meeting people, in which they are developing

665
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:20,359
Speaker 5: their political understanding has shifted. And for someone like me, right,

666
00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:24,360
Speaker 5: who has been ear to the ground, following each platform

667
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:28,319
Speaker 5: as it develops and really working in digital strategy, right

668
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:31,560
Speaker 5: for candidates even like Kamala Harris, I've been able to

669
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:33,840
Speaker 5: keep up with that shift. But for a lot of

670
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:40,240
Speaker 5: these legacy folks, establishment Dems on our side, they're failing

671
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:44,919
Speaker 5: to see the movement of attention and political understanding. There's

672
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:48,799
Speaker 5: a bit of even an elitism, if you will, around

673
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:53,960
Speaker 5: who builds political understanding right that there's no way that

674
00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:57,960
Speaker 5: someone like me, with hundreds of thousands of followers on

675
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:01,440
Speaker 5: TikTok and Instagram, there's no way that I could be

676
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:06,000
Speaker 5: the one building people's political understandings over something like you know,

677
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:09,400
Speaker 5: a more traditional CNN or MSNBC, which is behind a

678
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:13,319
Speaker 5: paywall for most people of my generation and inaccessible, and

679
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 5: so you know, I think it will take candidates like

680
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:19,799
Speaker 5: me who are taking a new media approach right, who

681
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:22,880
Speaker 5: are hopping on the podcasts and doing the substack live

682
00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:28,240
Speaker 5: streams and consistently pumping out viral content with organic views

683
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 5: all across the country and in district to change their minds.

684
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:35,560
Speaker 5: We still have to prove concept to some of these

685
00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:39,840
Speaker 5: more traditional folks. But I think what is scarier is

686
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:42,800
Speaker 5: that we may not have time that if we don't

687
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:47,560
Speaker 5: start being competitive in these digital spaces. We already saw

688
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:50,359
Speaker 5: an indicator of this in twenty twenty four, but the

689
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:54,319
Speaker 5: other side already has a head start. And if we

690
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:57,400
Speaker 5: don't start closing the gap now by electing people who

691
00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:01,279
Speaker 5: are strong messagers in new media and digital spaces, if

692
00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:05,360
Speaker 5: we don't start investing in the creators who have strong

693
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:09,200
Speaker 5: podcasts and interview series and live streams right by giving

694
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:13,359
Speaker 5: them access to our electeds and letting them ask real questions,

695
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:17,840
Speaker 5: and if we don't start investing in that media ecosystem overall,

696
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:19,959
Speaker 5: like we are going to be in a really bad

697
00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:21,840
Speaker 5: spot in twenty twenty eight.

698
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:24,480
Speaker 2: You know, it's funny because I actually don't think it

699
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:28,200
Speaker 2: necessarily matters what the questions you ask people are. Has

700
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:30,719
Speaker 2: someone who has been doing interviewing for a long time.

701
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:33,560
Speaker 2: I actually think people just say what they want to

702
00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:36,759
Speaker 2: say and you want to sort of direct them. But

703
00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:39,719
Speaker 2: there are certain people who will tell you more on

704
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:42,960
Speaker 2: a staff than other people. And I think one of

705
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:45,920
Speaker 2: the things that I have been really struggling with is

706
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:50,600
Speaker 2: this sort of mckinseying of democratic speak, so where you

707
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:54,320
Speaker 2: interview someone but they really refuse to tell you anything

708
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:58,680
Speaker 2: that is particularly relevant. And look, sometimes that's been used

709
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:01,200
Speaker 2: to great effect, but at this point, I think it's

710
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:03,919
Speaker 2: losing more elections than it's winning for Democrats.

711
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:05,879
Speaker 5: Yeah, I couldn't agree with you.

712
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:06,360
Speaker 4: More.

713
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:11,359
Speaker 5: People's bs radar is up right and what they expect

714
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:18,480
Speaker 5: not only from politicians but from celebrities right influencers. Even

715
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:22,040
Speaker 5: because of the nature of social media, where anyone can

716
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:25,279
Speaker 5: leave a comment for the entire world to see, or

717
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:29,000
Speaker 5: send a DM in real time to anyone they want

718
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:32,080
Speaker 5: anywhere in the world. Right, there is a new expectation

719
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:37,719
Speaker 5: of transparency and accountability in our culture because of the

720
00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:40,839
Speaker 5: structures of these social media platforms and the ways they

721
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:46,160
Speaker 5: have affected our social relationships. And one thing I'm really

722
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:49,680
Speaker 5: proud of on our campaign is the level of transparency

723
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:52,720
Speaker 5: we're bringing to this process. I once again will stress

724
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:56,080
Speaker 5: that this is a special election primary in the middle

725
00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:58,960
Speaker 5: of summer in Arizona, with like one hundred days in it.

726
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:04,680
Speaker 5: There is absolutely no expectation from like an establishment point

727
00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:07,520
Speaker 5: of view of bringing new people into this process. This

728
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:09,680
Speaker 5: is the kind of election where they're like, focus on

729
00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:12,680
Speaker 5: the high efficacy voters and leave everybody else behind. And

730
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:15,279
Speaker 5: that is absolutely not what we are doing over here.

731
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:18,320
Speaker 5: We are doing what you said earlier, which is explaining

732
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:19,200
Speaker 5: the process.

733
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:19,520
Speaker 4: Right.

734
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:22,800
Speaker 5: We took people along as we gathered signatures. We showed

735
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:26,319
Speaker 5: them the process of literally submitting those signatures to the

736
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:29,680
Speaker 5: Secretary of State's office, and then showed them the receipts

737
00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:32,560
Speaker 5: of how many we had, right, like the actual receipt

738
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:35,360
Speaker 5: from his office. We've taken them behind the scenes on

739
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:38,920
Speaker 5: things like fundraising. You know, there is probably hundreds of

740
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:42,840
Speaker 5: thousands of more people that know now what rolodexing and

741
00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:46,920
Speaker 5: call time are because of our videos, and so, you know,

742
00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:50,120
Speaker 5: I think pulling back a little bit of that rather

743
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:52,680
Speaker 5: one of the benefits of our campaign, and the way

744
00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:55,120
Speaker 5: we are doing things differently by the nature of being

745
00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:59,719
Speaker 5: a candidate who is transparent and available online, is that

746
00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:02,920
Speaker 5: we are making this process more transparent as we go.

747
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:05,640
Speaker 5: And I think the effects of that are still yet

748
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:07,960
Speaker 5: to be seen, but we know that it's one of

749
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:11,960
Speaker 5: the issues that democrats and our democracy at large are facing.

750
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:15,680
Speaker 5: Right There is an issue of transparency, of people feeling

751
00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:18,520
Speaker 5: like they're included in the process. And the other thing

752
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:21,200
Speaker 5: that is still left to be seen but will will

753
00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 5: know shortly, is how it will affect other young people

754
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:28,600
Speaker 5: who are considering a run for office. I get, I'm

755
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:31,799
Speaker 5: not kidding you, hundreds of dms of young people who

756
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:35,080
Speaker 5: are interested in running for office because of the content

757
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:39,279
Speaker 5: they are seeing on my platform around this election, right,

758
00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:42,920
Speaker 5: who want to know more about the process, who are

759
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:46,400
Speaker 5: frustrated and fed up, and who want to take action.

760
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:49,600
Speaker 5: And I think it can't be understated that after losing

761
00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:52,600
Speaker 5: so many young people in this last election to apathy

762
00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:55,920
Speaker 5: or to the other side, that we need leaders who

763
00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:59,600
Speaker 5: are inspiring young people to get involved, right, who make

764
00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:03,799
Speaker 5: it feel possible, not more folks who you know, through

765
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:07,120
Speaker 5: the means of legacy and establishment, make this feel even

766
00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:10,239
Speaker 5: further away and affirm what people already believe, which is

767
00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:12,279
Speaker 5: that this political process isn't for them.

768
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:16,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you, thank you, thank you for joining.

769
00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:18,080
Speaker 5: Us, thank you for having me, and thank you for

770
00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:20,960
Speaker 5: your thoughtful questions. Nobody said it was going to be easy.

771
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:23,640
Speaker 5: It's hard work and it's good work. And I hope

772
00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:26,759
Speaker 5: that people will join in to support our work and

773
00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:29,839
Speaker 5: our campaign because we really have a shot to make

774
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:31,759
Speaker 5: history over here in Arizona. But we only got a

775
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:32,560
Speaker 5: few weeks left.

776
00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:33,880
Speaker 2: Who are you running a hand?

777
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:37,680
Speaker 5: There are two other folks in this Democratic primary of note.

778
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:42,359
Speaker 5: One is a former state legislator and the other came

779
00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:45,800
Speaker 5: off the board of supervisors and is the former congressman's daughter.

780
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:48,800
Speaker 2: Oh wow, yeah. And is she young?

781
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:52,560
Speaker 5: No, she's in her fifties. And I think what you

782
00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:55,000
Speaker 5: need to know about the difference between me and them

783
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:59,640
Speaker 5: is that when it comes to experience, mine is in

784
00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:03,319
Speaker 5: an act advocacy realm right, you know. The experience that

785
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:05,120
Speaker 5: I bring is advocacy.

786
00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:10,880
Speaker 2: Carol Cadwalder is an investigative journalist and the author of

787
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:15,040
Speaker 2: The Family Tree. Welcome to Fast Politics.

788
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:19,280
Speaker 6: So nice to be here, great fan, great fans.

789
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:23,680
Speaker 2: Well, it's very mutual so your atjourney started with the

790
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:26,120
Speaker 2: journey of Braxit.

791
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:28,960
Speaker 6: Which journey are we talking? Well?

792
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:31,240
Speaker 2: I feel like I want you to give us your

793
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:34,799
Speaker 2: for those who are not as dialed in as Jesse

794
00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:35,480
Speaker 2: and I are.

795
00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:38,439
Speaker 6: The hell is this British chick of what you're doing

796
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:39,200
Speaker 6: on your podcast?

797
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:43,479
Speaker 2: Is that all right? Yeah? You can do this with Yeah.

798
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:48,520
Speaker 6: So basically who am I? I am an investigative journalist.

799
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:53,840
Speaker 6: I was until three weeks ago a Guardian journalist, but

800
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:57,279
Speaker 6: I have been expelled now from mainstream media. I've been

801
00:44:57,280 --> 00:45:01,799
Speaker 6: clinging on but anyway, they the Guardians, sold my bit

802
00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:06,319
Speaker 6: of the organization and so anyway, long story, but I'm out.

803
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:10,360
Speaker 6: But I'm enjoying my liberty and freedom I have to

804
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:13,520
Speaker 6: tell you, which enables me to be quite punchy. Which

805
00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:16,960
Speaker 6: is I mean, I've been pretty punchy, but I feel

806
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:19,360
Speaker 6: that I don't know something about age is becoming more so.

807
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:24,040
Speaker 6: But to answer the question, I essentially my beat became

808
00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:28,759
Speaker 6: in twenty sixteen. My beat really became this thing which

809
00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:32,480
Speaker 6: was the intersection of technology and politics, and of course

810
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:36,759
Speaker 6: that means technology and democracy. And I was kind of

811
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:39,960
Speaker 6: just terrified. I'd been reporting on tech for quite a

812
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:43,799
Speaker 6: long time. By that stage, but very much from as generalist,

813
00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:47,120
Speaker 6: like I'm a feature writer, that's my background. It's very

814
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:50,799
Speaker 6: much about like explaining to the world how this stuff worked,

815
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:53,040
Speaker 6: rather than doing the sort of like my new who

816
00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:56,600
Speaker 6: is a great new product. Anyway, in that sort of

817
00:45:56,920 --> 00:46:00,600
Speaker 6: I sort of became terrified about what I discovered in

818
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:04,879
Speaker 6: the twenty sixteen. It was really actually the thing which

819
00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:07,280
Speaker 6: really sent me down the rabbit hole was the election

820
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:09,920
Speaker 6: of Trump. And then that I started pulling on a

821
00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:14,439
Speaker 6: string and I discovered this really shady data company called

822
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:16,280
Speaker 6: Cambridge Analytica.

823
00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:19,319
Speaker 2: And little by little I pulled that.

824
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:22,719
Speaker 6: String and sort of discovered this huge scandal, the Facebook

825
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:26,880
Speaker 6: Cambridge Analytica scandal, which was this massive data breach in

826
00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:32,319
Speaker 6: which eighty seven million people's Facebook profiles were harvested and

827
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:36,680
Speaker 6: then used essentially to help elect Trump and the same

828
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:39,680
Speaker 6: company and the same people. It was very much there

829
00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:43,520
Speaker 6: was this totally kind of twin operation you could see

830
00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:48,440
Speaker 6: between Brexit and Trump and just it was the same people,

831
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:50,640
Speaker 6: it was the same companies, it was the same data.

832
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:55,240
Speaker 6: We had the same kinds of bad actors, the same

833
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:59,160
Speaker 6: foreign interference, and so that sort of question of how

834
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:05,000
Speaker 6: these tech plans platforms essentially facilitated a complete revolution in

835
00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:08,800
Speaker 6: the way that we do campaigning and politic completely opaque,

836
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:13,840
Speaker 6: completely unaccountable and uh and have you know, caused a

837
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:17,160
Speaker 6: convulsion in what we think of as democracy. And I

838
00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:22,040
Speaker 6: would argue doesn't really, you know, it's a very big

839
00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:24,840
Speaker 6: question about whether that still exists in that in this

840
00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:26,839
Speaker 6: online world. Was that did that work?

841
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:30,160
Speaker 2: It did work? But it's pretty heavy. I mean it's

842
00:47:30,239 --> 00:47:32,000
Speaker 2: very it's quite heavy.

843
00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:34,160
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's quite heavy. I mean it it's this this,

844
00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:37,200
Speaker 6: I mean, it's it's amazing. Actually, weirdly, as I have

845
00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:41,520
Speaker 6: this thing of that, I actually weirdly feel more cheerful

846
00:47:41,719 --> 00:47:44,960
Speaker 6: right now than I did for really long periods of

847
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:48,400
Speaker 6: this time. And it's because the threat is now visible,

848
00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:52,480
Speaker 6: right that the at least done us all a favor

849
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:57,640
Speaker 6: in like oh okay, Silicon Valley, these tech companies, what

850
00:47:57,640 --> 00:48:02,360
Speaker 6: they're doing. What the aar like, the centralized power, the

851
00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:06,919
Speaker 6: totally unaccountable power. We now get it in a way. Yes,

852
00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:09,799
Speaker 6: we're sparing on the journey. I feel like we're now

853
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:12,480
Speaker 6: starting on the journey of at least getting it.

854
00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:16,640
Speaker 2: So you had an incredible TED talk that where you

855
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:22,040
Speaker 2: talked about techno authoritarianism, right, that's what it really is,

856
00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:25,520
Speaker 2: getting your data, using it to control you meet, you know,

857
00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:29,359
Speaker 2: sort of the worst of authoritarianism and the worst of

858
00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:34,080
Speaker 2: data mining coming together. You know, that's the Elon Musk

859
00:48:34,160 --> 00:48:38,319
Speaker 2: part and the Heritage Foundation part coming together to rule

860
00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:40,719
Speaker 2: the world. Talk us through kind of how you got

861
00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:41,719
Speaker 2: to this thesis.

862
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:44,360
Speaker 6: I don't think it's a thesis. I think it is reality.

863
00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:48,200
Speaker 2: I mean, no, no, but it is reality. But it's yeah, yeah, yeah.

864
00:48:49,120 --> 00:48:52,120
Speaker 2: To sum it up, sort of, you know, to sum

865
00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:56,200
Speaker 2: it up is that we live in a surveillance society.

866
00:48:56,960 --> 00:49:01,759
Speaker 6: Right. Every single thing, our entire econ, the entire online

867
00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:07,560
Speaker 6: economy is predicated on knowing what we're up to online

868
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:13,200
Speaker 6: and tracking that and monetizing that, and that underpins these

869
00:49:13,760 --> 00:49:17,839
Speaker 6: you know, trillion dollar tech companies. That's their model, that's

870
00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:20,960
Speaker 6: what they're based on. They're based on knowing who we are,

871
00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:25,160
Speaker 6: and they know who we are by gathering this data

872
00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:29,799
Speaker 6: about us, and you can everybody was sort of like

873
00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:32,719
Speaker 6: had different. Oh I don't care anyway, Like I don't

874
00:49:32,760 --> 00:49:35,000
Speaker 6: care about my privacy. It doesn't manter to me. Oh,

875
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:37,600
Speaker 6: I've got nothing to hide like That was the sort

876
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:42,800
Speaker 6: of mentality which built Silicon Valley, but now Silicon Valley

877
00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:46,800
Speaker 6: is it's you know, we've seen this merger take place

878
00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:52,040
Speaker 6: between Silicon Valley and the most powerful superpower in the world,

879
00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:56,360
Speaker 6: and those two things have now come together. And so

880
00:49:57,239 --> 00:50:02,600
Speaker 6: that power that all see being all knowing power coming

881
00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:07,719
Speaker 6: together with a superpower with nuclear weapons, which is reshaping

882
00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:14,440
Speaker 6: the world order. This is if you're not terrified, it

883
00:50:14,520 --> 00:50:17,240
Speaker 6: is because you are not paying attention. And I actually

884
00:50:17,239 --> 00:50:20,560
Speaker 6: I feel really bad saying that because I am based

885
00:50:20,680 --> 00:50:25,000
Speaker 6: here in London and I am one degree removed from

886
00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:28,760
Speaker 6: what is happening in America. But it's only one degree removed.

887
00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:31,719
Speaker 6: You don't have to apologize for things not being as

888
00:50:31,840 --> 00:50:34,880
Speaker 6: bad where you are than where we are. And I

889
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:38,080
Speaker 6: think we talked when we were talking offline before you

890
00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:40,840
Speaker 6: were saying, you actually feel a little better. And I

891
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:45,040
Speaker 6: actually feel a little better too because some of the

892
00:50:45,080 --> 00:50:48,279
Speaker 6: stuff we saw. And I had a similar experience with

893
00:50:48,440 --> 00:50:52,320
Speaker 6: Project Toy twenty five, which is I was like, holy shit,

894
00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:56,279
Speaker 6: this is going to gut the entire federal government, Like

895
00:50:56,480 --> 00:50:59,200
Speaker 6: if they enact this, it is going to be the

896
00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:02,160
Speaker 6: end of rural hospitals and we're all nursing homes and

897
00:51:02,239 --> 00:51:05,880
Speaker 6: this and that, and I was like, and the you know,

898
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:09,480
Speaker 6: administrative state, I mean, the goal is to dismantle everything

899
00:51:09,520 --> 00:51:13,080
Speaker 6: you get from the federal government. And now that it's happening,

900
00:51:13,239 --> 00:51:15,800
Speaker 6: I'm like, oh, I'm not crazy, Like this was actually

901
00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:17,200
Speaker 6: what it was. And I feel like you have that

902
00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:21,960
Speaker 6: same thought. So I've been Britain's premier conspiracy theorist for

903
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:24,760
Speaker 6: a decade. I mean I sort of hold that title.

904
00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:29,000
Speaker 6: I've been a cultural hate figure because I investigated Brexit,

905
00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:32,080
Speaker 6: which you know, it was an it was a totally

906
00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:37,080
Speaker 6: evidence based journalistic investigation. However, because it was into a

907
00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:42,400
Speaker 6: political matter with such divisiveness in Britain, I got tird

908
00:51:42,560 --> 00:51:46,600
Speaker 6: and smeared and feathered, trd and smothed and feathered. I

909
00:51:46,760 --> 00:51:49,839
Speaker 6: was like hung out to dry and multiply harassed and

910
00:51:49,920 --> 00:51:53,160
Speaker 6: all the rest of it. Because the way of undermining

911
00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:56,160
Speaker 6: my reporting was to undermine me, and the way of

912
00:51:56,239 --> 00:51:58,560
Speaker 6: undermining me was to go after me in this very personal,

913
00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:04,160
Speaker 6: misogynistic way. And yeah, the conspiracy theory of around this

914
00:52:04,239 --> 00:52:07,480
Speaker 6: stuffs has been you know, it's kind of interesting. I

915
00:52:07,480 --> 00:52:09,359
Speaker 6: actually haven't had that for a little while. I mean,

916
00:52:09,719 --> 00:52:11,759
Speaker 6: I'm sure it will come back to another footwear but

917
00:52:12,440 --> 00:52:15,040
Speaker 6: it turned out it turned out it wasn't a conspiracy theory,

918
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:16,360
Speaker 6: it was a conspiracy.

919
00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:19,880
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, and I mean I think that's like Brexit

920
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:23,960
Speaker 2: is a great example because it's over and it's clearly

921
00:52:24,160 --> 00:52:27,800
Speaker 2: was a disaster. Right. They didn't want Polish plumbers coming

922
00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:31,319
Speaker 2: into the country, so they sanctioned themselves and it's been

923
00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:32,920
Speaker 2: a complete disaster, right.

924
00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:35,279
Speaker 6: I wish I could say that's the thing is is

925
00:52:35,320 --> 00:52:38,160
Speaker 6: that we haven't because of the sort of nobody has

926
00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:41,799
Speaker 6: any consensus of reality anymore, because of the way that

927
00:52:41,840 --> 00:52:45,640
Speaker 6: the tech platforms, the way that we consume information. So

928
00:52:45,719 --> 00:52:49,640
Speaker 6: there is no consensus of reality in Britain that Brexit

929
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:54,200
Speaker 6: was a disaster to such to such a degree that

930
00:52:54,280 --> 00:52:59,160
Speaker 6: our left, supposedly left wing labor government can't even talk

931
00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:03,880
Speaker 6: about this. Right, that's still is of a boaten subject

932
00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:06,640
Speaker 6: which they just don't want to go near. Because also

933
00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:11,520
Speaker 6: in Britain, our media landscape is totally dominated by still

934
00:53:11,640 --> 00:53:15,160
Speaker 6: powerful less powerful than it was, but it's still powerful

935
00:53:15,719 --> 00:53:19,000
Speaker 6: right wing, corporate and sort of oligarchic media and they

936
00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:23,239
Speaker 6: you know, they've made the political agenda for years, for decades,

937
00:53:23,560 --> 00:53:25,440
Speaker 6: and they still have this sort of huge amount of

938
00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:30,719
Speaker 6: power that way, So yeah, so sadly, sadly, although by

939
00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:37,839
Speaker 6: every demonstrable, demonstrable and measurable index, yes, it has been

940
00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:41,000
Speaker 6: a disaster, but we still can't get people to own that.

941
00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:45,439
Speaker 2: That is so incredibly sharking way, But okay, I want

942
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:47,960
Speaker 2: you to talk about the data and what it looks

943
00:53:48,040 --> 00:53:52,719
Speaker 2: like to you. So in twenty sixteen it was Facebook.

944
00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:56,680
Speaker 2: I think of Mark Zackerberg as like significantly more evil

945
00:53:57,000 --> 00:54:00,440
Speaker 2: than Elon Musk, despite the fact that Elon Musk reads

946
00:54:00,560 --> 00:54:03,759
Speaker 2: us more evil than Mark Zuckerberok, because Elon Musk and

947
00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:07,400
Speaker 2: again this is this idea, So Elon Musk is out

948
00:54:07,520 --> 00:54:09,960
Speaker 2: about what he's doing, so talk to us about that.

949
00:54:10,560 --> 00:54:12,880
Speaker 6: Why So I'm really curious, why do you think Zuckerbog's

950
00:54:12,920 --> 00:54:14,239
Speaker 6: more evil? Go and give me we.

951
00:54:14,239 --> 00:54:18,160
Speaker 2: All because he pretends to not be evil. Whereas Elon

952
00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:21,080
Speaker 2: is like full on, you know, we want you know,

953
00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:24,680
Speaker 2: for you know, it's like, why do these four people

954
00:54:24,960 --> 00:54:28,320
Speaker 2: get food when we could just be giving tax cuts

955
00:54:28,360 --> 00:54:32,920
Speaker 2: to huge corporations, Whereas I feel like Mark Zuckerberg is like,

956
00:54:33,480 --> 00:54:37,160
Speaker 2: we're here to connect everyone. We are here for connection,

957
00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:39,920
Speaker 2: and then it's like and the Rahingan genocide.

958
00:54:40,520 --> 00:54:41,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, ye know.

959
00:54:42,360 --> 00:54:44,880
Speaker 6: Also as well, it's got. The thing about Zuckerberg is

960
00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:49,400
Speaker 6: that there's a slight of hand with him in you know,

961
00:54:49,480 --> 00:54:52,600
Speaker 6: they keep renaming shits, so it's refused to call it meta.

962
00:54:52,640 --> 00:54:55,319
Speaker 6: I'm still calling it Facebook. They renamed it meta to

963
00:54:55,360 --> 00:54:58,239
Speaker 6: sort of like wipe the stink off all the Facebook scandals.

964
00:54:58,239 --> 00:55:01,080
Speaker 6: But I'm sorry that I'm not flying with And the

965
00:55:01,400 --> 00:55:05,880
Speaker 6: slides of hand is that Facebook is Facebook, it's Instagram,

966
00:55:05,960 --> 00:55:09,120
Speaker 6: it's WhatsApp, it's and those people always forget that.

967
00:55:09,160 --> 00:55:09,640
Speaker 2: You always have.

968
00:55:09,680 --> 00:55:11,600
Speaker 6: These youngsters saying, oh, I'm not on Facebook, I don't

969
00:55:11,600 --> 00:55:13,879
Speaker 6: having things to do meta, and it's like, yeah, do us.

970
00:55:14,320 --> 00:55:17,680
Speaker 6: Of course they use Instagram, so it's and then of course,

971
00:55:17,760 --> 00:55:20,160
Speaker 6: you know and like I am I have of boten

972
00:55:20,640 --> 00:55:23,399
Speaker 6: policy on you know too, And now i am I'm

973
00:55:23,440 --> 00:55:26,440
Speaker 6: on WhatsApp and actually I've just joined Instagram. He in

974
00:55:26,560 --> 00:55:31,040
Speaker 6: terms of the world's population and use of product his products, yeah,

975
00:55:31,080 --> 00:55:35,279
Speaker 6: he does win. And that's there is actually global domination there.

976
00:55:35,680 --> 00:55:37,880
Speaker 6: And you know, there is a really interesting case happening

977
00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:40,280
Speaker 6: at the moment, which is they are looking to break

978
00:55:40,360 --> 00:55:41,680
Speaker 6: up anti trust.

979
00:55:41,800 --> 00:55:43,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, the anti trust thing.

980
00:55:43,120 --> 00:55:45,680
Speaker 6: And of course it's not a coincidence that he's cozying

981
00:55:45,800 --> 00:55:49,560
Speaker 6: up to Trump, right, I mean, it's he's got a

982
00:55:49,560 --> 00:55:51,719
Speaker 6: lot to lose. He's got a lot to lose. I

983
00:55:51,719 --> 00:55:54,840
Speaker 6: think the difference is is that back in twenty sixteen,

984
00:55:54,920 --> 00:55:57,000
Speaker 6: the reason why that was such a moment and why

985
00:55:57,040 --> 00:56:01,000
Speaker 6: he was so culpable is because it was Facebook, which

986
00:56:01,080 --> 00:56:05,160
Speaker 6: was where politics, where campaigning was being conducted. That we

987
00:56:05,239 --> 00:56:08,719
Speaker 6: had much more centralized sort of social media landscape at

988
00:56:08,760 --> 00:56:11,920
Speaker 6: that time. Now it's much more scattered. There's so many

989
00:56:11,920 --> 00:56:15,520
Speaker 6: other it's you know, there's there's the guy, yeah, the

990
00:56:15,560 --> 00:56:17,560
Speaker 6: TikTok of it in the YouTube and all the rest

991
00:56:17,600 --> 00:56:19,359
Speaker 6: of it. Like that's where a lot of the sort

992
00:56:19,400 --> 00:56:23,000
Speaker 6: of money is being spent. Now, what's interesting about this Cambridgealytics.

993
00:56:23,120 --> 00:56:25,400
Speaker 6: It's a good thing in a way. It's a model.

994
00:56:25,400 --> 00:56:30,000
Speaker 6: It's a parable for what Musk has been doing inside

995
00:56:30,040 --> 00:56:33,759
Speaker 6: the government, which is that you know, Cambra Reganalystic. It

996
00:56:33,800 --> 00:56:38,160
Speaker 6: was hoovering up this Facebook data to then to then

997
00:56:38,360 --> 00:56:42,399
Speaker 6: build algorithms to to really understand who these people were

998
00:56:42,480 --> 00:56:47,279
Speaker 6: to then target them politically. So why is Musk hoovering

999
00:56:47,360 --> 00:56:52,120
Speaker 6: up all of this data from inside government? What's he doing?

1000
00:56:52,160 --> 00:56:52,319
Speaker 4: It?

1001
00:56:52,400 --> 00:56:56,120
Speaker 6: The most valuable resource in the world for you know,

1002
00:56:56,200 --> 00:56:59,319
Speaker 6: the competition the game now is all AI. You want

1003
00:56:59,320 --> 00:57:02,120
Speaker 6: to build the best AI, you know, that's where the

1004
00:57:02,200 --> 00:57:04,640
Speaker 6: race is on. And to build the best AI, you

1005
00:57:04,719 --> 00:57:07,520
Speaker 6: need the best sources of data. And here he you know,

1006
00:57:07,600 --> 00:57:11,239
Speaker 6: has been inside the US government with absolutely kidd in

1007
00:57:11,239 --> 00:57:16,560
Speaker 6: a candy shop with you know, the entire population's highly

1008
00:57:16,680 --> 00:57:22,040
Speaker 6: highly sensitive different pieces of data, including financial and social

1009
00:57:22,040 --> 00:57:24,440
Speaker 6: security and all the rest of it. That's the thing

1010
00:57:24,520 --> 00:57:28,440
Speaker 6: I find the most terrifying in the sense like you

1011
00:57:28,960 --> 00:57:31,160
Speaker 6: capture that, you capture the future in a way.

1012
00:57:31,400 --> 00:57:34,960
Speaker 2: On Twitter already we're seeing like fake tweet by fake people.

1013
00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:37,919
Speaker 2: So what's the But just explain to me the goal here.

1014
00:57:38,520 --> 00:57:43,360
Speaker 2: Fake people create fake tweets that real people read and

1015
00:57:43,560 --> 00:57:46,560
Speaker 2: think that more people believe something than really do.

1016
00:57:46,920 --> 00:57:49,919
Speaker 6: I mean, just explain to me. It's basically it's because

1017
00:57:49,960 --> 00:57:52,240
Speaker 6: it's a very complex landscape. And it was really funny.

1018
00:57:52,280 --> 00:57:56,160
Speaker 6: There was this quite senior political journalist during the Brexit years.

1019
00:57:56,160 --> 00:57:59,520
Speaker 6: He was just he went was on some political program

1020
00:58:00,040 --> 00:58:03,600
Speaker 6: and he said, a Russian bot didn't tell my granny

1021
00:58:03,680 --> 00:58:06,360
Speaker 6: to vote for Brexits, and that was his why this

1022
00:58:06,480 --> 00:58:08,520
Speaker 6: is all a load of rubbish and it just like

1023
00:58:08,640 --> 00:58:11,479
Speaker 6: it the way that the different ways that there's sort

1024
00:58:11,480 --> 00:58:15,440
Speaker 6: of these mechanized forms work and now so much more

1025
00:58:15,440 --> 00:58:17,960
Speaker 6: sophisticated because of AI. Is a lot of what they're

1026
00:58:18,000 --> 00:58:21,760
Speaker 6: doing is manipulating reality. So the cast on Twitter would

1027
00:58:21,800 --> 00:58:26,480
Speaker 6: be those nameless people and things they would like, you know,

1028
00:58:26,560 --> 00:58:31,000
Speaker 6: they'd glom onto different hashtags. You get the hashtags to

1029
00:58:31,040 --> 00:58:34,480
Speaker 6: trend and then and then real people look to see

1030
00:58:34,520 --> 00:58:37,520
Speaker 6: what's happening. It's ways, you know, there's lots of different

1031
00:58:37,560 --> 00:58:43,960
Speaker 6: ways of manipulating people's sentiments and we don't realize it's invisible,

1032
00:58:44,040 --> 00:58:47,040
Speaker 6: but they do really impact things like the news agenda.

1033
00:58:47,680 --> 00:58:50,400
Speaker 2: So here's a question for you, because I definitely have

1034
00:58:50,600 --> 00:58:53,680
Speaker 2: you know, I come from internet circa nay, I come

1035
00:58:53,680 --> 00:58:58,400
Speaker 2: from the nineties, right, and and what has happened with

1036
00:58:58,480 --> 00:59:01,720
Speaker 2: me is I've just stopped trusting doing things I see online.

1037
00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:03,880
Speaker 2: So if I see a picture of Donald Trump as

1038
00:59:03,880 --> 00:59:06,760
Speaker 2: the pulp, I don't assume Donald Trump is the new

1039
00:59:06,760 --> 00:59:10,320
Speaker 2: pulp because I know that there's and you know, AI

1040
00:59:10,480 --> 00:59:12,840
Speaker 2: looks a little different. You can tell what it is.

1041
00:59:13,200 --> 00:59:17,440
Speaker 2: But is that isn't that what everyone is just going

1042
00:59:17,520 --> 00:59:21,400
Speaker 2: to not trust anything because there's no fact checking.

1043
00:59:22,640 --> 00:59:25,640
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's and that's what we're seeing happening. I mean,

1044
00:59:26,080 --> 00:59:30,800
Speaker 6: that's where and this loss of trust which goes along

1045
00:59:30,840 --> 00:59:32,720
Speaker 6: with that is a loss of trust in everything, isn't

1046
00:59:32,760 --> 00:59:36,080
Speaker 6: It's a loss of trust in institutions, It's a lot

1047
00:59:36,160 --> 00:59:39,600
Speaker 6: of trust in news organizations with it, It's a lot

1048
00:59:39,720 --> 00:59:43,280
Speaker 6: of trust in you know, government bodies. This is across

1049
00:59:43,360 --> 00:59:48,600
Speaker 6: the board. And you know that's that in itself is terrifying,

1050
00:59:48,640 --> 00:59:51,000
Speaker 6: isn't it? And you know, this is where I sort

1051
00:59:51,000 --> 00:59:55,040
Speaker 6: of say, it's that we these terms which we started

1052
00:59:55,120 --> 01:00:00,600
Speaker 6: learning in twenty and sixteen, misinformation and disinformation, like that's

1053
01:00:00,800 --> 01:00:04,440
Speaker 6: gone like forget that now like this is you know,

1054
01:00:04,480 --> 01:00:07,480
Speaker 6: I sort of talk about sort of total information collapse

1055
01:00:08,080 --> 01:00:13,920
Speaker 6: like this now we are in total information chaos and

1056
01:00:14,120 --> 01:00:16,720
Speaker 6: that's you know, it's it's it's it's why it's so

1057
01:00:17,200 --> 01:00:20,040
Speaker 6: hard for any of us to like process and navigate

1058
01:00:20,120 --> 01:00:23,280
Speaker 6: what on earth is going on, because we just face

1059
01:00:23,480 --> 01:00:28,720
Speaker 6: this chaotic cacophony of voices and noise and you know,

1060
01:00:28,920 --> 01:00:36,120
Speaker 6: funny memes and cat video and but you know, weirdly, Molly,

1061
01:00:36,240 --> 01:00:39,120
Speaker 6: I actually do feel like there is something here which

1062
01:00:39,400 --> 01:00:43,360
Speaker 6: gives me. It's bizarre, how like more optimistic I am

1063
01:00:43,400 --> 01:00:47,040
Speaker 6: at the moment than I will meet because now that

1064
01:00:47,120 --> 01:00:49,320
Speaker 6: we can see the problem, and now we can see

1065
01:00:49,320 --> 01:00:53,760
Speaker 6: the crisis, we can actually now start thinking about solutions.

1066
01:00:54,120 --> 01:00:55,960
Speaker 6: That's the thing. And so it is this like out

1067
01:00:56,000 --> 01:00:59,480
Speaker 6: of crisis comes opportunities. So for me, and it's kind

1068
01:00:59,520 --> 01:01:02,240
Speaker 6: of what I've a particular skin in this game. But

1069
01:01:02,320 --> 01:01:06,560
Speaker 6: for me, what's now so important is that we have

1070
01:01:06,640 --> 01:01:10,960
Speaker 6: to build proper independent media that people trust. Right, And

1071
01:01:11,800 --> 01:01:14,600
Speaker 6: we've seen the way that these big corporates, you know

1072
01:01:14,800 --> 01:01:17,960
Speaker 6: in America bowing down to Trump. They you know, they

1073
01:01:18,000 --> 01:01:20,640
Speaker 6: can't stand up things They've got, you know, their theme

1074
01:01:20,720 --> 01:01:21,880
Speaker 6: park to worry about.

1075
01:01:21,720 --> 01:01:26,120
Speaker 7: Right, and their space stuffing Molly is to you, aren't

1076
01:01:26,120 --> 01:01:28,600
Speaker 7: they like this is the kind of this is where

1077
01:01:28,800 --> 01:01:32,400
Speaker 7: the you know, actually you've got to be out there,

1078
01:01:33,080 --> 01:01:35,720
Speaker 7: like being popular than Joe Rogan Molly.

1079
01:01:35,800 --> 01:01:36,919
Speaker 6: That is now your job.

1080
01:01:38,800 --> 01:01:40,920
Speaker 2: I have to tell you. The funniest part though, just

1081
01:01:41,280 --> 01:01:45,520
Speaker 2: on this information idea is I started putting on Instagram

1082
01:01:45,600 --> 01:01:48,840
Speaker 2: like tweets that I thought were important for people because

1083
01:01:48,840 --> 01:01:50,360
Speaker 2: I knew that there were a lot of people who

1084
01:01:50,360 --> 01:01:53,080
Speaker 2: couldn't stay on Twitter anymore and that there were things

1085
01:01:53,080 --> 01:01:55,320
Speaker 2: that were relevant and important that they might never see.

1086
01:01:55,360 --> 01:01:58,000
Speaker 2: I mean, this is the fundamental problem. So I started

1087
01:01:58,000 --> 01:02:00,840
Speaker 2: putting them on Instagram. And I was at White House

1088
01:02:00,840 --> 01:02:04,560
Speaker 2: Correspondence weekend like two weeks ago, and a number of

1089
01:02:04,680 --> 01:02:10,040
Speaker 2: like real television people like anchors and you know whatever

1090
01:02:10,160 --> 01:02:17,160
Speaker 2: intellect We're like, I find your Instagram very useful. But

1091
01:02:17,280 --> 01:02:19,800
Speaker 2: that's because like the problem is, we don't have a

1092
01:02:19,840 --> 01:02:24,160
Speaker 2: great aggregation entering anymore. Yes, so it is like we

1093
01:02:24,240 --> 01:02:26,920
Speaker 2: are like it's and unless you spend twelve hours a

1094
01:02:27,000 --> 01:02:30,680
Speaker 2: day online, which luckily I do, you don't have like

1095
01:02:30,720 --> 01:02:35,000
Speaker 2: a pastisee yeah, of everything that is happening. So you

1096
01:02:35,120 --> 01:02:38,760
Speaker 2: miss like, you know, you miss Elon Musk melting down

1097
01:02:38,920 --> 01:02:44,600
Speaker 2: about his you know, possible child with the possible influencer,

1098
01:02:44,640 --> 01:02:46,400
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. You miss all of that,

1099
01:02:46,960 --> 01:02:49,080
Speaker 2: and then you'll see something else and it won't make

1100
01:02:49,160 --> 01:02:51,320
Speaker 2: sense because you won't have the entire story.

1101
01:02:52,160 --> 01:02:55,080
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's so funny because my first Instagram post was

1102
01:02:55,120 --> 01:02:58,920
Speaker 6: like a screenshot of my tweet. Okay, Yeah, it was

1103
01:02:59,000 --> 01:03:00,840
Speaker 6: very funny because a friend saw it and she was like,

1104
01:03:01,040 --> 01:03:02,960
Speaker 6: she was like no, she was like, no, you need

1105
01:03:03,000 --> 01:03:05,480
Speaker 6: to be like you need to be showing your eyebrows

1106
01:03:05,560 --> 01:03:08,400
Speaker 6: and like doing a selfie with like and I was like.

1107
01:03:08,440 --> 01:03:18,440
Speaker 2: No, anyway, is culture is downstream of politics. Politics culture discussed.

1108
01:03:18,760 --> 01:03:20,840
Speaker 6: So this was yeah. So I used this line in

1109
01:03:20,880 --> 01:03:25,160
Speaker 6: my Ted talk, which is Steve, I say, Steve Bannon's.

1110
01:03:24,880 --> 01:03:27,600
Speaker 2: Bannon, but it's really from bray Bar. It's from me.

1111
01:03:28,120 --> 01:03:32,480
Speaker 6: It's I think this thing which is that most people

1112
01:03:32,680 --> 01:03:37,360
Speaker 6: honestly don't care about politics, and but yet you know

1113
01:03:37,440 --> 01:03:40,440
Speaker 6: they're not watching the political news, they're not watching the

1114
01:03:40,480 --> 01:03:44,480
Speaker 6: political pundits. This isn't where the important stuff is being discussed,

1115
01:03:44,960 --> 01:03:48,560
Speaker 6: but where the thing which ahead of the you know,

1116
01:03:48,640 --> 01:03:53,200
Speaker 6: the election, the us that it's the podcast bros, like

1117
01:03:53,280 --> 01:03:57,160
Speaker 6: it's the YouTube bros. And at the moment those bros

1118
01:03:57,360 --> 01:04:02,120
Speaker 6: who are on browie platforms with algorithms built by bros

1119
01:04:02,640 --> 01:04:08,600
Speaker 6: to which prioritizes bro content, that is where the sort

1120
01:04:08,600 --> 01:04:12,840
Speaker 6: of conversation is. That's where the dial is shifting, and

1121
01:04:12,920 --> 01:04:16,160
Speaker 6: that is culture, and that for me is the sort

1122
01:04:16,160 --> 01:04:18,320
Speaker 6: of key thing about it. To go back to the

1123
01:04:18,520 --> 01:04:23,160
Speaker 6: tech of it, right, which is the YouTube algorithm, kind

1124
01:04:23,160 --> 01:04:25,800
Speaker 6: of terrifies me in that way. YouTube is the round

1125
01:04:25,920 --> 01:04:28,760
Speaker 6: zero of the manosphere, and misogyny is wrapped up in

1126
01:04:28,880 --> 01:04:31,920
Speaker 6: everything that we're seeing now. But I feel that like

1127
01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:35,000
Speaker 6: in order to reclaim that space, we need people like

1128
01:04:35,160 --> 01:04:40,000
Speaker 6: you out talking to and for as many people listening

1129
01:04:40,000 --> 01:04:43,080
Speaker 6: to you as possible. And yeah, we have to in

1130
01:04:43,200 --> 01:04:46,160
Speaker 6: order to reclaim the politics, we need to kind of

1131
01:04:46,200 --> 01:04:49,000
Speaker 6: first regain the culture. And part of the way that

1132
01:04:49,040 --> 01:04:51,760
Speaker 6: we have to reclaim the culture, the long view is

1133
01:04:52,120 --> 01:04:55,240
Speaker 6: we need to build better platforms which are not owned

1134
01:04:55,400 --> 01:04:59,440
Speaker 6: by these terrible Silicon Valley tech companies. That's a long yep.

1135
01:05:01,120 --> 01:05:04,080
Speaker 2: I'm so excited, thank you, thank you, thank you. This

1136
01:05:04,280 --> 01:05:08,040
Speaker 2: was amazing. I really appreciate you just exactly what I

1137
01:05:08,040 --> 01:05:10,880
Speaker 2: want to talk about. So thank you, thank you for having.

1138
01:05:10,600 --> 01:05:13,880
Speaker 6: Me on and I really forward to seeing you in

1139
01:05:13,920 --> 01:05:15,360
Speaker 6: London and talking about your.

1140
01:05:15,240 --> 01:05:23,160
Speaker 2: Book now perfectly, Jesse Cannon.

1141
01:05:23,400 --> 01:05:27,160
Speaker 3: PI judged fast. Who would have thought that the Supreme

1142
01:05:27,240 --> 01:05:30,760
Speaker 3: Court repealing the Voting Rights Act back in the day

1143
01:05:31,480 --> 01:05:34,360
Speaker 3: would not go so well and things would be bad.

1144
01:05:34,920 --> 01:05:37,160
Speaker 2: I would not have thought that. I actually would have

1145
01:05:37,160 --> 01:05:40,280
Speaker 2: thought that. I am not surprised if Federal court ruled

1146
01:05:40,320 --> 01:05:45,480
Speaker 2: Thursday that Alabama engaged in intentional discrimination when it refused

1147
01:05:45,480 --> 01:05:48,880
Speaker 2: to draw a congressional plan with a second black majority district.

1148
01:05:49,360 --> 01:05:53,680
Speaker 2: After courts, including the Supreme Court, repeatedly rejected maps with

1149
01:05:53,760 --> 01:05:56,440
Speaker 2: one such district when the finding the courts that it

1150
01:05:56,440 --> 01:05:59,600
Speaker 2: would consider whether to put by the way Alabama is

1151
01:06:00,320 --> 01:06:03,640
Speaker 2: this is they are fuck it. I mean, let's just

1152
01:06:03,800 --> 01:06:09,760
Speaker 2: look at the Alabama senators for a minute. Okay, Tommy Tuberville, Right,

1153
01:06:09,880 --> 01:06:14,000
Speaker 2: that guy he didn't even live in Alabama, Right, he

1154
01:06:14,120 --> 01:06:18,640
Speaker 2: lives somewhere else. Tommy Tubervel, Katie britt Right, Alabama is

1155
01:06:18,680 --> 01:06:22,360
Speaker 2: a super diverse state. These Republicans are just trying to

1156
01:06:22,400 --> 01:06:26,600
Speaker 2: hold onto power here. Of course, they're jerrymandering, they're trying

1157
01:06:26,600 --> 01:06:29,760
Speaker 2: to hold onto power. They're doing all of the tricks

1158
01:06:29,800 --> 01:06:33,320
Speaker 2: that we know so well, and it's just, you know,

1159
01:06:33,400 --> 01:06:37,240
Speaker 2: there we go. So the Voting Rights Act opened, you know,

1160
01:06:37,600 --> 01:06:40,360
Speaker 2: this is Roberts. Roberts is how we got here, right,

1161
01:06:40,440 --> 01:06:43,280
Speaker 2: cutting away at the Voting Rights Act, this is how

1162
01:06:43,280 --> 01:06:47,720
Speaker 2: we got here. So if Democrats win back the political zeitgeist,

1163
01:06:47,760 --> 01:06:52,080
Speaker 2: we're going to need desperately to enact anti corruption laws.

1164
01:06:52,120 --> 01:06:56,440
Speaker 2: We're going to need desperately to end partisan jerrymandering. It

1165
01:06:56,640 --> 01:06:59,880
Speaker 2: is the moment for them. That's it for this episode

1166
01:07:00,240 --> 01:07:07,000
Speaker 2: Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday and Saturday

1167
01:07:07,160 --> 01:07:10,480
Speaker 2: to hear the best minds and politics make sense of

1168
01:07:10,800 --> 01:07:15,040
Speaker 2: all this chaos. If you enjoy this podcast, please send

1169
01:07:15,040 --> 01:07:18,720
Speaker 2: it to a friend and keep the conversation going. Thanks

1170
01:07:18,760 --> 01:07:19,440
Speaker 2: for listening.