1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:13,239 Speaker 1: Disgraceland is a production of Double Elvis. 2 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:18,320 Speaker 2: The stories about Chuck Berry are insane. 3 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:23,880 Speaker 3: He was imprisoned numerous times, a victim of violent systemic racism, 4 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 3: and accused of horrific acts of sexual depravity. He also 5 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:32,440 Speaker 3: invented rock and roll, but more on that later. Chuck 6 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:35,600 Speaker 3: Berry was as complex a character as he was influential 7 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:38,840 Speaker 3: as a musician, penning some of rock and roll's earliest 8 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:42,640 Speaker 3: and most consequential hits, as well as an autobiography that 9 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:45,520 Speaker 3: reads like a first person account of the genre's big 10 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:49,760 Speaker 3: bang theory. Throughout his career, he found himself in numerous 11 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:52,879 Speaker 3: dust ups with authorities, some of it justified, most of 12 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:56,280 Speaker 3: it not. And through it all, whether he cared or didn't, 13 00:00:56,560 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 3: Chuck Berry made great music, literally some of the greatest 14 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:03,440 Speaker 3: music ever made. Unlike that music I played for you 15 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:06,280 Speaker 3: at the top of the show that wasn't great music. 16 00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:10,440 Speaker 3: That was a preset loop for my mellotron called Kinicki's 17 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 3: cab Kiss MK. 18 00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:12,959 Speaker 2: Two. 19 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:16,400 Speaker 3: I played you that loop because I can't afford the 20 00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:20,200 Speaker 3: rights to Another Day in Paradise by Phil Collins, And 21 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:24,479 Speaker 3: why would I play you that specific slice of but seriously, cheese? 22 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:28,320 Speaker 3: Could I afford it because that was the number one 23 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:32,040 Speaker 3: song in America on December twenty seventh, nineteen eighty nine, 24 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 3: and that was the day the Saint Louis Dispatch ran 25 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:39,959 Speaker 3: the headline Chuck Berry tape women suit charges, leading to 26 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:42,760 Speaker 3: a series of events that would land Chuck Berry in 27 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 3: prison for a fourth time and most certainly do irrevocable 28 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 3: damage to his legacy. On this episode, systemic racism, sexual deprevity, 29 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:57,120 Speaker 3: the invention of rock and roll in Chuck Berry, I'm 30 00:01:57,240 --> 00:02:30,680 Speaker 3: Jake Brennan, and this is Graceland. Chuck Berry couldn't sleep, 31 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 3: not on his government issued mattress anyway, not in the 32 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:37,519 Speaker 3: fifteen by fifteen foot cell with two other prisoners he 33 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 3: was forced to shack up with, and not without sex. 34 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:46,000 Speaker 3: Horny wasn't strong enough a word. Chuck Berry was driven 35 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:49,720 Speaker 3: to distraction. Who thought it wise to staff this place 36 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:54,440 Speaker 3: with female security officers? There weren't a lot, but hell, 37 00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:57,959 Speaker 3: one female was one too many, and these women were 38 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 3: easy on the eyes, long hair, heels, curves for days. 39 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:07,360 Speaker 3: Chuck knew he was in trouble, so he wrote Chuck 40 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:10,120 Speaker 3: Berry loved words the way they showed up for him, 41 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:12,320 Speaker 3: and then rolled off of his tongue and out onto 42 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 3: the page, first as poetry, then later in life as 43 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:20,520 Speaker 3: songs and behind bars he wrote both. The aptly titled 44 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:23,880 Speaker 3: No Particular Place to Go, Nadine is a You, Carol, 45 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:26,679 Speaker 3: and You Never Can Tell were among the songs Chuck 46 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 3: had written during his second Stretch and lock Up back 47 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 3: in nineteen sixty two. This curR instant was different. He 48 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 3: was older, wiser, and had more mileage in the rear view. 49 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 3: It was nineteen seventy nine and Chuck Barry was hellbent 50 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:44,520 Speaker 3: on using his time away to write his autobiography and 51 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:45,800 Speaker 3: to set the record straight. 52 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:48,680 Speaker 2: But the women changed everything. 53 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 3: Chuck couldn't focus keeping his thoughts off sex, the kind 54 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:55,520 Speaker 3: of sex that lands you in jail or keeps you 55 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 3: in jail. That was a problem. There was only so 56 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:01,400 Speaker 3: much of the mess around he could do by himself, 57 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:05,880 Speaker 3: so he wrote what his fellow inmates called Chuck's Good Stories. 58 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 3: They were pure sex, bluer than a red Fox party record. 59 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 3: Chuck Berry America's greatest cultural exports since jazz, in an 60 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:16,839 Speaker 3: effort to keep himself from spinning off of the planet 61 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:20,839 Speaker 3: from a lack of sex. In the pen hand down 62 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:26,880 Speaker 3: in dirty Fuck Fiction and as far as prison was concerned, 63 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:31,280 Speaker 3: Charles Edward Anderson Barry aka Chuck Berry, aka the man 64 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 3: who invented rock and roll wasn't really bothered by him. 65 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 2: It was the reason he was locked up that bothered him. Emensely. 66 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 3: Sentenced to one hundred and twenty days for tax evasion 67 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:43,720 Speaker 3: in nineteen seventy nine, was bunk. 68 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:44,839 Speaker 2: He was guilty. 69 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:47,919 Speaker 3: Sure, one hundred and twenty grand or so unreported to 70 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:52,479 Speaker 3: Uncle Sam is legit tax evation. But come on, despite 71 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 3: previously serving two prison sentences, one a ten year stint 72 00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:58,960 Speaker 3: of which he served three for armed robbery at the 73 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 3: age of seventeen, and one for violating the Man Act, 74 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:04,479 Speaker 3: a beef that sent him to the federal pen for 75 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:06,800 Speaker 3: a year and a half in nineteen sixty two to 76 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:08,400 Speaker 3: serve legit hard time. 77 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 2: We'll get to that later. 78 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 3: Chuck couldn't help but think that had he not been 79 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:14,839 Speaker 3: Chuck Berry, the rock and Roller, he would have been 80 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 3: given the opportunity to work out a deal with authorities 81 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 3: for the relatively harmless white collar crime he had committed. 82 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:22,280 Speaker 2: Chuck knew that. 83 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 3: The real reason he was in jail was because he 84 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 3: was a black man who enjoyed his freedom just a 85 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:30,599 Speaker 3: little too freely in a white man's world. But being 86 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 3: alone now it wasn't all that bad. 87 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:37,800 Speaker 2: Chuck was used to it. In fact, he preferred it. 88 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 3: From an early age he learned to occupy that big 89 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 3: brain of his first with the family radio, sitting alone 90 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:45,680 Speaker 3: as a twelve year old in his living room at 91 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:48,960 Speaker 3: four three one nine Lavity Street in Saint Louis, Missouri, 92 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:52,719 Speaker 3: listening to various jazz, blues, big band and boogie woogieyart 93 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:56,240 Speaker 3: as popular at the time. Ella Fitzgerald, Big Joe Turner, 94 00:05:56,279 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 3: Benny Goodman, Jelly Roll Morton, and Fatz Waller were among 95 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:03,400 Speaker 3: his favorites. Then with his camera, his friend Harry had 96 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:06,680 Speaker 3: a dark room, and Chuck loved it. The solitude, the 97 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 3: attention to detail, the way had slowed down the world 98 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:12,279 Speaker 3: around him, and of course, the way it sped up 99 00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:15,600 Speaker 3: his heart rate. Whenever pinup photos circulated through in need 100 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 3: of development, women, some of them white and nearly see 101 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:22,920 Speaker 3: through lingerie, flirting with him from beyond the lens. Out 102 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:26,040 Speaker 3: of the dark room, they were strictly off limits. But here, 103 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:29,320 Speaker 3: among the smell of the Eastman Kodak chemicals and within 104 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:32,640 Speaker 3: the climate controlled temperature, he could at least speak to them. 105 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:37,279 Speaker 3: If nothing else, Chuck dug the singular nature of it all. 106 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:39,480 Speaker 3: It gave him time to think about the things that 107 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:42,599 Speaker 3: teenage boys think about, to think about where he was, 108 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 3: who he was, and what he wanted out of his life. 109 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 3: And it gave him time to think about poetry. He 110 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 3: put poems together in his head to pass the time, 111 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:53,360 Speaker 3: and soon he would begin to think about that poetry 112 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 3: as music. Being alone was where it was at. 113 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 2: It was how Chuck liked it. 114 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 3: Even years later, while he was at the height of 115 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:07,400 Speaker 3: his success and financially able to employ bands big enough 116 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:11,440 Speaker 3: to rival his beloved count Basis Orchestra, Chuck preferred no 117 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 3: insisted on traveling alone with no band, just him his 118 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:19,240 Speaker 3: guitar in an open road. He didn't even carry a 119 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 3: guitar court never mind an amplifier. He'd roll from town 120 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 3: to town in one of his late model coffee colored Cadillacs, 121 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:29,680 Speaker 3: stone alone, no manager, no roadie, no handlers, and no 122 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 3: accompanying musicians. At about thirty minutes before showtime, he'd pull 123 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:36,880 Speaker 3: up to whatever ten to twenty thousand capacity venue he 124 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 3: was headlining that night, near the backstage entrance park wherever 125 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 3: the hell he wanted, waltz into the promoter's office, confidently 126 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 3: and politely demand payment in advance in cash, and, usually 127 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:50,880 Speaker 3: under the threat of not performing, extored an extra thousand 128 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:57,120 Speaker 3: dollars cherry on top before going on stage. Once satisfied 129 00:07:57,120 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 3: that the pockets of his polyester bell bottoms were proper lined, 130 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:03,240 Speaker 3: he'd walk on stage with his Gibson the S three 131 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:06,720 Speaker 3: thirty five, straight past his backing band, a combo of 132 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 3: local musicians he'd yet to meet, who stood scared shitless 133 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:13,240 Speaker 3: with their instruments ready for the Great Chuck Berry's cue. 134 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 3: Chuck would then plug his guitar into whatever amp the 135 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:18,320 Speaker 3: promoter had set up for him, and proceeded to tune 136 00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 3: his guitar loudly in front of the entire auditorium, and then, 137 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:25,080 Speaker 3: without having said one word or making any eye contact 138 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 3: at all with his new band, he'd launch into one 139 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 3: of his classic opening riffs and drag the terrified musicians 140 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 3: along with him for a clumsy but exhilarating ride. Even 141 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:37,880 Speaker 3: on stage playing with other people in front of thousands 142 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 3: of fans, he was alone in his own head while 143 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:42,720 Speaker 3: playing the hits and mugging. 144 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:43,040 Speaker 2: For the crowd. 145 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 3: Occasionally allowing himself to get lost and tearing the ass 146 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 3: out of one of his guitar solos if he was 147 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:52,200 Speaker 3: really feeling it. By mid set, he turned to his 148 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:55,640 Speaker 3: band and playfully shout play for that money, boys, and 149 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:58,000 Speaker 3: if they were lucky and good, he'd kick a grand 150 00:08:58,040 --> 00:08:59,840 Speaker 3: back to them after the show, on top of what 151 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:04,680 Speaker 3: the promoter was paying. But more often than not, he 152 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:08,320 Speaker 3: was gone after the last encore without a word, usually 153 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:11,320 Speaker 3: before the house lights were even on, sometimes before the 154 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 3: band had even finished the outro to his last song, 155 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 3: drifting off down some American highway into the night, words 156 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 3: moving through his head in slow motion, his guitar in 157 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:24,960 Speaker 3: its case, strapped in vertically in the passenger seat to 158 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:49,600 Speaker 3: his right, but otherwise totally loone. Chuck Berry didn't need 159 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:53,600 Speaker 3: a band. He was Chuck Berry. Bands were just another expense, 160 00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:57,680 Speaker 3: another hassle, and who needed more hassle? Life was filled 161 00:09:57,679 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 3: with them, going back as far as he could remember, 162 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 3: especially in Saint Louis, Missouri in the nineteen thirties and forties. 163 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:07,440 Speaker 3: It wasn't quite the Deep South, but it was a 164 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:10,800 Speaker 3: racist social construct filled with hassles. From his earli as 165 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 3: Chuck could remember, white cops were suspicious of everything you did, 166 00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:15,760 Speaker 3: everywhere you went. 167 00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:17,439 Speaker 2: Chuck learned to live with it. 168 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:19,840 Speaker 3: He had to, and there was no other choice, but 169 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:23,160 Speaker 3: it wasn't easy, especially as he hit puberty. A young 170 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:26,200 Speaker 3: man's hormones don't see in black and white, but any 171 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:30,240 Speaker 3: sort of interracial romantic relationship was strictly taboo and likely 172 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:32,880 Speaker 3: to land a young black man in jail, or werese 173 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:35,880 Speaker 3: swinging from a rope at the end of a poplar tree. 174 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:38,200 Speaker 3: In Saint Louis at the time, if a black man 175 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:40,680 Speaker 3: and a white woman were stopped by a cop, there, 176 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:43,440 Speaker 3: at the very least immediately hauled into the police station 177 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:49,240 Speaker 3: for mandatory venereal disease shots. A young Chuck tried not 178 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:52,319 Speaker 3: to stare at the bat. If he fixated on it, 179 00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:55,559 Speaker 3: they'd be more likely to use it under the high 180 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:58,520 Speaker 3: wate fluorescent light bulb in the Saint Louis District Police 181 00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:02,319 Speaker 3: headquarters interrogation. He tried not to look at anything at all, 182 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:05,880 Speaker 3: but his eyes just couldn't help glancing back to the bat. 183 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:10,679 Speaker 3: The nineteen forty nine Louisville Slugger was an especially strong 184 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:14,040 Speaker 3: baseball bat, but in the years following World War Two, 185 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:17,480 Speaker 3: after having served its country by supplying the US Army 186 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:21,320 Speaker 3: with wooden gunstocks and billie clubs. The Louisville Slugger Company 187 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:24,720 Speaker 3: took its wartime knowledge and improved upon what was previously 188 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:25,760 Speaker 3: considered perfect. 189 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:27,559 Speaker 2: The Model won twenty five. 190 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 3: Turning it out of select second growth ash wood, Louisville 191 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 3: Slugger created a new batch of incredibly powerful bats, the 192 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:38,880 Speaker 3: stick of choice for Alzheimers like Joe DiMaggio and Ted Williams. 193 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:42,559 Speaker 3: Oil tempered with a distinct saddle tan finish. The nineteen 194 00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:46,280 Speaker 3: forty nine Model one twenty five, being born from war, 195 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:48,400 Speaker 3: was imbued with violence. 196 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:51,200 Speaker 2: Chuck Berry knew. 197 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:53,200 Speaker 3: None of this as he sweated and kept looking to 198 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 3: and fro, trying to find some appropriate place for his 199 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:58,200 Speaker 3: eyes to land. As he tried not to stare at 200 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:01,000 Speaker 3: the men across the table from him in a carfrontational way, 201 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 3: or at that damn baseball bat. All he could think 202 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:06,840 Speaker 3: of were his brains being painted onto the wall. The 203 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:09,840 Speaker 3: police sergeant positioned above him with the Model one twenty 204 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 3: five Louisville Slugger cocked on his shoulder, decided to get 205 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:16,080 Speaker 3: all stam musel and swing at Chuck's skull for the 206 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:21,760 Speaker 3: cheap seats too on. Nobody else, did you, fugger, asked 207 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:25,480 Speaker 3: the police captain, Sergeant stand. The man kept the bat 208 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:28,520 Speaker 3: held high, staring right through Chuck, sitting hot in the box, 209 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:32,000 Speaker 3: daring him to say the wrong thing. Chuck lobbed one 210 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 3: straight down the middle. No, sir, a white woman, No sir. 211 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:39,080 Speaker 3: Chuck was scared. He'd been informed, after being picked up 212 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:41,440 Speaker 3: by the cops on a tip by a jilted boyfriend 213 00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:43,840 Speaker 3: of a white girl he'd been messing around with that 214 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:47,079 Speaker 3: if one word of his statement was a lie, sergeants stand, 215 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:52,040 Speaker 3: the man would swing for the fences. Even then, Chuck 216 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:56,040 Speaker 3: knew what his audience wanted. They wanted fear. The racist 217 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:58,520 Speaker 3: white cops needed to feel like they were in control, 218 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:01,680 Speaker 3: so Chuck gave them what they wanted. He was indeed 219 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:04,920 Speaker 3: legitimately frightened, but now he played to the cheap seats, 220 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:08,040 Speaker 3: laying it on thick over, dramatizing a WinCE here and 221 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:10,960 Speaker 3: a shudder there, until finally both the captain and the 222 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:15,079 Speaker 3: sergeant broke into laughter, amused at what they thought they 223 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:17,680 Speaker 3: had done brought a young black man to his knees. 224 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:21,800 Speaker 3: He was eventually let go, but the gravity of the 225 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:24,680 Speaker 3: incident was never lost on him. He knew the cops 226 00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:26,840 Speaker 3: could have killed him at their will, and no doubt 227 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:30,560 Speaker 3: frame it up as justifiable. From then on, Chuck would 228 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:33,240 Speaker 3: think twice about which women he slept with and where, 229 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:37,760 Speaker 3: But regardless, thinking about sleeping with women was most of 230 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:40,720 Speaker 3: what he did in prison. There was lots to think about. 231 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:43,720 Speaker 3: Chuck Berry had been a successful entertainer for most of 232 00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:47,240 Speaker 3: his adult life. Women were never a problem, or, depending 233 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:50,280 Speaker 3: on how Chuck looked at it, women were always a problem. 234 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:53,760 Speaker 3: What wasn't a problem was his prowess and innovation as 235 00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 3: a guitar player and songwriter. Chuck Berry invented rock and roll. 236 00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:02,040 Speaker 3: There I said it needed to say it come at me, Aliauan, 237 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:05,720 Speaker 3: about Ike Turner and Sister Rosetta, Little Richard, Elvis Presley, 238 00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:08,000 Speaker 3: and whoever else you want. The fact of the matter 239 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 3: is that the Chuck Berry rift, the rhythm rift he 240 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:13,960 Speaker 3: nicked from his piano player Johnny Johnson, not the two 241 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:17,200 Speaker 3: string lead riff, the Chuck Berry lick that introduces many 242 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:19,360 Speaker 3: of his greatest hits and is the guitar part he 243 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:23,200 Speaker 3: is most identified with. But Chuck's rhythm rift is the 244 00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:26,360 Speaker 3: thread that ties together the most influential rock and roll 245 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:29,320 Speaker 3: artists of all time, and this rift did not fully 246 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:33,240 Speaker 3: exist before Chuck Berry. Guitar players know it well. It's 247 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:36,120 Speaker 3: the root six or Root five power chord that stretches 248 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:38,000 Speaker 3: the pinky up two frets. 249 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:38,120 Speaker 2: On the neck. 250 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:41,640 Speaker 3: Non guitar players think of the rhythm guitar part appropriated 251 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:44,160 Speaker 3: by Marty McFly and the movie Back to the Future. 252 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:47,680 Speaker 3: This is the same rift that the most consequential rock 253 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:51,040 Speaker 3: and roll guitarist from the most influential groups could not 254 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:54,800 Speaker 3: and will not leave alone. It is everywhere in rock 255 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:57,200 Speaker 3: and roll music, from Chuck to the Beatles, to the 256 00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:00,920 Speaker 3: Stones Clapped in Hendrick Zeppelin to the sex Pist the Ramones, 257 00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:03,400 Speaker 3: all the way up to Green Day, White Stripes, Black 258 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:07,160 Speaker 3: Keys into today's low cut Connie. The riff is everywhere. 259 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:09,800 Speaker 3: It is synonymous with the sound of rock and roll, 260 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:13,040 Speaker 3: and it didn't exist before Chuck Berry. And though the 261 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:15,400 Speaker 3: term rock and roll had been in use for years 262 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:19,000 Speaker 3: before Chuck Berry started recording, the riff he invented, had 263 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:21,200 Speaker 3: not been used in tandem with the term rock and 264 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:24,200 Speaker 3: roll or with any other distinctive rock and roll elements 265 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:26,920 Speaker 3: like the straight ahead, back beat and youth oriented appeal 266 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:31,000 Speaker 3: until Chuck Berry's recording and release of his song rock 267 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:35,280 Speaker 3: and Roll Music in nineteen fifty seven. This song is 268 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:38,080 Speaker 3: rock and roll's big bang. It is the first rock 269 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 3: and roll song, and it has nothing to do with 270 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:44,200 Speaker 3: the song's title. It's about everything else, the beat, the lyrics, 271 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:47,680 Speaker 3: and the production, but it's especially about Chuck's rhythm guitar. 272 00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 3: It's the first recorded appearance of his signature riff on 273 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 3: the airwaves, the riff that he took out of his 274 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 3: piano player's hands and then shredded through his tiny, distorted amp. 275 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:00,360 Speaker 3: For a more detailed defense of this argument that I 276 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:02,480 Speaker 3: can already tell has annoyed the shit out of my 277 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 3: music's nob listeners, I encourage you to read the Chuck 278 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 3: Berry chapter in my book Disgraceland Musicians Getting Away with 279 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:12,480 Speaker 3: Murder and Behaving Very Badly, where I further qualify the 280 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:15,800 Speaker 3: overwhelming influence of Chuck Berry's riff and the fact that 281 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:20,160 Speaker 3: he Charles Edward Anderson Barry, without a doubt, convented rock 282 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:26,840 Speaker 3: and roll. But before attaining such influence, Chuck Berry needed 283 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:30,200 Speaker 3: a record contract. A chance meeting with his hero blues 284 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 3: musician Muddy Waters led to a recording contract with Chess Records. 285 00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:36,680 Speaker 3: In his first single for Chess, Maybelene was quick to 286 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:42,240 Speaker 3: blanket the airwaves. Chuck was on his way. Maybelene hit 287 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:44,560 Speaker 3: number one on the R and B charts and number 288 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:47,120 Speaker 3: five on the Pop chart, and it was largely due 289 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:49,160 Speaker 3: to the efforts of a DJ in New York named 290 00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:52,200 Speaker 3: Alan Freed. Freed spun the song one night on his 291 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:56,480 Speaker 3: show for two hours straight, one song over and over 292 00:16:56,520 --> 00:17:00,960 Speaker 3: again for two hours straight. When Chuck he was shocked 293 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:02,640 Speaker 3: at the passion for you to had show him for 294 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:05,600 Speaker 3: his song, but that wore off quickly when Chuck learned 295 00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:08,399 Speaker 3: that the DJ was credited alongside Chuck as one of 296 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:11,439 Speaker 3: the songwriters of Mabeli and a scam set up by 297 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:14,720 Speaker 3: Leonard Chess, owner of Chess Records, who gave Freed the 298 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:17,920 Speaker 3: DJ songwriting credit as an incentive to spin the song 299 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:20,639 Speaker 3: and rack up publishing royalties to line his pockets with. 300 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:24,679 Speaker 3: Chuck Berry had just learned the most important lesson in 301 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:28,280 Speaker 3: the music business, the hard way, never trust your record label. 302 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:31,960 Speaker 3: Regardless the song was a hit, and Chuck was a 303 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:36,200 Speaker 3: star and touring frequently all over America, from the Midwest 304 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:38,800 Speaker 3: to New England to the deep South, where life for 305 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:42,560 Speaker 3: a successful young black man could be downright dangerous. 306 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:50,840 Speaker 2: We'll be right back after this word word word. 307 00:17:56,840 --> 00:17:59,800 Speaker 3: Chuck didn't mean to kiss her. She threw herself at her, 308 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:04,040 Speaker 3: right there on stage, in front of everyone. Chuck was 309 00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:07,720 Speaker 3: feeling loose, his set was tight, and the crowd was jazzed. 310 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:10,800 Speaker 3: The adrenaline from everyone on and off stage was pumping. 311 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:14,200 Speaker 3: It was a small, intimate dance for some college students 312 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:17,800 Speaker 3: in a renovated army barracks and Meridian, Mississippi. A girl 313 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:21,040 Speaker 3: couldn't have been younger than a key. Didn't matter. Her 314 00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:23,639 Speaker 3: tongue when it hit his took him completely out of 315 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 3: the moment and delivered him to some place far away. 316 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:30,560 Speaker 3: His mouth sunk into hers, right there on the stage, 317 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:32,960 Speaker 3: under the house slights that were now on and blasting 318 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:36,760 Speaker 3: down upon the couple. The moment didn't last. Chuck snapped 319 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:39,800 Speaker 3: himself out of it and pulled away. This was Mississippi. 320 00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:45,080 Speaker 3: She was white, he was black. When he opened his eyes, 321 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:47,200 Speaker 3: she was staring at him as if to say, what's 322 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:51,520 Speaker 3: the matter, don't you want me? A question he would 323 00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:53,800 Speaker 3: have happily answered, if it weren't for the staring eyes 324 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 3: of the rest of the crowd, which now a few 325 00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 3: minutes removed from his performance, had snapped back to reality. 326 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:02,040 Speaker 3: The crowd had just witnessed a black man kissing a 327 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:04,600 Speaker 3: white girl in a segregated hall where the black kids 328 00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:06,200 Speaker 3: weren't even allowed to sit next. 329 00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:08,200 Speaker 2: To white kids. That was Chuck's q. 330 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:11,960 Speaker 3: He unplugged his guitar, quietly stepped off the stage and 331 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:14,760 Speaker 3: made his way to the side door the makeshift auditorium 332 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:16,280 Speaker 3: under the glaring eyes of the crowd. 333 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:19,440 Speaker 2: The place was stone cold quiet. 334 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:22,439 Speaker 3: Chuck was nearly at the door, nearly free, until a 335 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:25,000 Speaker 3: frat boy rose up in front of Chuck, flanked by 336 00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:30,399 Speaker 3: seven of his brothers, Big white dumb Chuck, did you 337 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:34,159 Speaker 3: try to date my sister? Chuck was quick to the point, No, 338 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:37,280 Speaker 3: of course, not another lunkhead, this one to the side 339 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:39,600 Speaker 3: of the original frat boy pointed to Chuck and shouted, 340 00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:39,960 Speaker 3: he did. 341 00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:42,160 Speaker 2: He's a Yankee like the rest of them. 342 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:44,520 Speaker 3: This was a cue for the other frat boys to 343 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:46,800 Speaker 3: chime in with their own racist accusations. 344 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:48,720 Speaker 2: The crowd turned on Chuck. 345 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:52,520 Speaker 3: Boos were swelling up throughout the auditorium, and Chuck could 346 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:54,879 Speaker 3: feel the fear. It cooled, the sweat on his skin, 347 00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:57,520 Speaker 3: and that's when he saw it. The gleam of the 348 00:19:57,560 --> 00:20:01,480 Speaker 3: swish play extended menacingly from the hand of the first lunkhead. 349 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:04,600 Speaker 3: The promoter saw it too. Fearing the worse, he decided 350 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:07,240 Speaker 3: to play peacemaker and jump between the knife and Chuck, 351 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:08,480 Speaker 3: pushing him aside. 352 00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:11,520 Speaker 2: Chuck, while being dragged away out of the mob. 353 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:15,120 Speaker 3: And backward toward the exit, started singing it was an unconscious, 354 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 3: visceral attempt to quash the violence in the air. The 355 00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:22,199 Speaker 3: booze continued, and so did the shouting, and Chuck shouted slash, 356 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:26,560 Speaker 3: saying back. Lunkhead wasn't having it. Enraged and now being 357 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:29,719 Speaker 3: held back by a small basketball squad and still holding 358 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:32,679 Speaker 3: his switchblade, he was quick to get lippy. I'm a 359 00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:35,920 Speaker 3: Mississippian and this black boy asked my sister for a date. 360 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:39,480 Speaker 3: Lunkhead grew more upset and struggled to break away from 361 00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:43,200 Speaker 3: his classmate to tear Chuck limb from limb. Chuck shouted, 362 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:45,960 Speaker 3: sang more lyrics at him, and Chuck was pushed out 363 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:48,160 Speaker 3: of harm's way and out the exit door into the night, 364 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:51,600 Speaker 3: where he was soon greeted by Mississippi's finest and hauled 365 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:55,320 Speaker 3: in for what exactly He wasn't told. He was kept 366 00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:58,399 Speaker 3: in jail overnight, but he was alive in the morning. 367 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:00,760 Speaker 3: He was driven to the airport, but only after being 368 00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:03,159 Speaker 3: relieved of the seven hundred dollars he'd made from the 369 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:05,480 Speaker 3: previous night's show by the cops. 370 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:06,960 Speaker 2: Say Leavie Chuck thought. 371 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:13,919 Speaker 3: Chuck experienced plenty of racism back home in Saint Louis 372 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:16,800 Speaker 3: as well, despite his growing fame, and not just from 373 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:21,560 Speaker 3: lunkhead frat boys judges, particularly the judge presiding over his 374 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:24,280 Speaker 3: appeal for the charge that he violated the Man Act. 375 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:28,080 Speaker 3: Chuck was hauled in before a gig at Club Bandstand, 376 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:30,880 Speaker 3: the club he owned in Saint Louis, on December twenty third, 377 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:32,120 Speaker 3: nineteen fifty nine. 378 00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:34,280 Speaker 2: Violating the Man. 379 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:37,000 Speaker 3: Act was a serious charge designed to cut down on 380 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:40,880 Speaker 3: human trafficking and prevent the transport and thus spreading of prostitution. 381 00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:44,760 Speaker 3: It was nefariously used by authorities to target high profile 382 00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:48,040 Speaker 3: black men see boxer Jack Johnson as Exhibit A to 383 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:53,200 Speaker 3: Chuck Berry as Exhibit B. Chuck was fucked. The cops 384 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:57,400 Speaker 3: said she was only fourteen in white Ish. Chuck thought 385 00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:00,720 Speaker 3: she was Native American. The authorities didn't care she was 386 00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:02,840 Speaker 3: under age, and thus she was the hammer they were 387 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:05,520 Speaker 3: going to use to bust up Chuck Berry in his nightclub, 388 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:07,960 Speaker 3: the one that cops viewed as a black mark on 389 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:10,760 Speaker 3: the image of white purity that the city wanted to project. 390 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:14,360 Speaker 3: Club Bandstand was where the girl worked after Chuck brought 391 00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:17,920 Speaker 3: her up in his Cadillac from El Paso across state lines, 392 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:22,600 Speaker 3: thus committing, according to the Man Act, white slavery. Her 393 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:25,600 Speaker 3: age wasn't the only problem. Saint Louis cops got wind 394 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:27,920 Speaker 3: of her because they'd heard about the young, quote unquote 395 00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:31,119 Speaker 3: exotic looking girl working over at Chuck's place who was 396 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:36,080 Speaker 3: tricking herself out. Chucks diod trial and faced ten years 397 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 3: in prison hard time. After two weeks, the all white 398 00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:43,360 Speaker 3: male jury found him guilty and the racist judge gave 399 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:47,720 Speaker 3: him five years. Chuck appealed, successfully claiming improving bias on 400 00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:50,400 Speaker 3: behalf of the judge, and had his sentence dropped down 401 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:53,399 Speaker 3: to three years. He eventually had the sentence reduced to 402 00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:54,960 Speaker 3: a year and a half, but in the end, the 403 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:58,879 Speaker 3: cops got what they wanted in Chuck's absence. Club Bandstand 404 00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:02,359 Speaker 3: went under and closed. Chuck served his time, but he 405 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:03,919 Speaker 3: was never the same afterward. 406 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:06,040 Speaker 2: He was no angel, but he. 407 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:09,160 Speaker 3: Wasn't what authorities claimed he was either. He was a target, 408 00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:12,200 Speaker 3: He was a marked man. It was unjust, and Chuck 409 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:16,000 Speaker 3: was unable to accept it. He would never be the same. 410 00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:35,320 Speaker 3: It was one of those headlines that thoroughly did its job. 411 00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 3: It screamed at you off of the page. It forced 412 00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:40,520 Speaker 3: you to pick up the paper it was printed on. 413 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:44,200 Speaker 3: Fork over your fifty cents and dive In the Saint 414 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:49,840 Speaker 3: Louis Dispatches front page read Chuck Berry taped women suit charges. 415 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:56,440 Speaker 3: By the late eighties, Chuck Berry, despite his various legal troubles, 416 00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:59,960 Speaker 3: was a very rich man. Constant roadwork in a nineteen 417 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:03,920 Speaker 3: seventy two smash with the novelty Song Mike Dingling kept 418 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:08,720 Speaker 3: the bread coming in, as did various other investments. Chuck 419 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:11,760 Speaker 3: invested in a real estate venture called Barry Park, where 420 00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:14,880 Speaker 3: he would rent rooms, trailers, and homes to locals while 421 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:17,760 Speaker 3: he resided in the property's quote unquote big house. 422 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:18,800 Speaker 2: Like the boss that he. 423 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:22,000 Speaker 3: Was, Chuck Berry, the man who invented rock and roll, 424 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:24,120 Speaker 3: as big a BMOC. 425 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:24,639 Speaker 2: As there ever was. 426 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:29,520 Speaker 3: Chuck also indulged his childhood photography hobby and invested in 427 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:33,800 Speaker 3: a new company he'd incorporated called chuck Berry Communications Systems, 428 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:36,359 Speaker 3: in spending as much as three quarters of a million 429 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:40,080 Speaker 3: dollars on sophisticated video editing equipment to take his hobby 430 00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:44,480 Speaker 3: to the next level. And Chuck also invested in local restaurants, 431 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:48,200 Speaker 3: namely the Wentsville Southern Air Restaurant. And it was there 432 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 3: that the confluence of Chuck's investments all came together to 433 00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:54,439 Speaker 3: create one giant mess of a situation for the. 434 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:55,639 Speaker 2: Rock and roll pioneer. 435 00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:59,560 Speaker 3: Chuck owned the property, He owned the restaurant. He was 436 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:05,359 Speaker 3: the boss, and he also owned the video equipment, the 437 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:08,960 Speaker 3: equipment that his employee Hasana Huck alleged Chuck used to 438 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:11,679 Speaker 3: videotape her and other women in the bathroom of the 439 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:15,920 Speaker 3: restaurant he owned. The suit Miss Huck brought specifically alleged 440 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:19,440 Speaker 3: that the videotapes were created for the improper purpose of 441 00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:23,360 Speaker 3: the entertainment and gratification of what it describes as Barry's 442 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:29,360 Speaker 3: sexual fetishes and sexual predilections. Oh yeah, and there were videotapes, 443 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:35,600 Speaker 3: lots and lots of videotapes. How they surfaced and came 444 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:37,959 Speaker 3: into the hands of authorities as a matter of debate. 445 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:41,520 Speaker 3: Miss Huck, who filed the initial claim against Chuck, made 446 00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:45,080 Speaker 3: her statement to authorities after her husband, a handyman who 447 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 3: also worked for Chuck, supposedly found a box of videotapes 448 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:52,439 Speaker 3: and a trash dumpster on public Wentsville property, not on 449 00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:56,080 Speaker 3: Chuck Berry's property. And when he stumbled upon this cardboard 450 00:25:56,160 --> 00:26:00,159 Speaker 3: box of lude and scandalous VHS tapes that happen and 451 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:03,719 Speaker 3: to contain videos of his own wife. There just happened 452 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:06,199 Speaker 3: to be two of Saint Louis's finest on hand to 453 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:09,280 Speaker 3: witness mister Huck's discovery. It could not be claimed that 454 00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:11,560 Speaker 3: mister Huck took possession of the tapes illegally. 455 00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:12,359 Speaker 2: How could it. 456 00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:15,119 Speaker 3: He found them in a public place and there were 457 00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:19,040 Speaker 3: cops there who could back him up. The tapes told 458 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:21,440 Speaker 3: their own story, and it was not a good one. 459 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:29,479 Speaker 3: There were numerous recordings featuring hundreds of women, most of 460 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:33,640 Speaker 3: them blonde, all of them white, and in the act 461 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:38,760 Speaker 3: of relieving themselves. The women were filmed surreptitiously from cameras 462 00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:40,600 Speaker 3: position behind toilet. 463 00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:41,760 Speaker 2: Seats and Chuck's restaurants. 464 00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:46,720 Speaker 3: Close ups from the front and the back footage was 465 00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:50,000 Speaker 3: expertly spliced together with a second camera positioned above the 466 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:52,760 Speaker 3: toilet to capture the wide shots of the women before 467 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:57,919 Speaker 3: and after relieving themselves, and these clips were all edited 468 00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:01,879 Speaker 3: together into compilation reels with various shots frozen in time 469 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:06,000 Speaker 3: for lasting effect. The women, for the most part, were adults, 470 00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:08,840 Speaker 3: but there was also footage of girls under the. 471 00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:09,440 Speaker 2: Age of ten. 472 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:13,840 Speaker 3: After the tapes were found, Barry Park was raided small 473 00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:16,440 Speaker 3: amounts of marijuana what looked like hash, one hundred and 474 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:20,000 Speaker 3: twenty two grand in cash, and fifty nine more VHS 475 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:24,879 Speaker 3: tapes were hauled out of Chuck's home. County Prosecutor William J. 476 00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,639 Speaker 3: Hannah took too big a swing and tried to claim 477 00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:31,080 Speaker 3: that not only was Chuck Barry's sexual predator, but also 478 00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:34,919 Speaker 3: a major drug player dealing millions of dollars in cocaine. 479 00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:38,080 Speaker 3: Chuck maintained his innocence in the matter. As far as 480 00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:41,280 Speaker 3: he was concerned, nothing had changed since the fifties. Saint 481 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:43,919 Speaker 3: Louis authorities were still about to break him because he 482 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:45,560 Speaker 3: was a success, because. 483 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:47,359 Speaker 2: He was black, because he liked white women. 484 00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:52,200 Speaker 3: Nevertheless, Chuck was charged with marijuana possession and child abuse. 485 00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:56,359 Speaker 3: Missouri law stated that featuring young people naked on video 486 00:27:56,520 --> 00:28:05,840 Speaker 3: constitutes to child abuse. Chuck turned himself in, and then 487 00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:10,159 Speaker 3: he turned his lawyers loose. He sued for the return 488 00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:13,640 Speaker 3: of his tapes. He sued the lawyers. He sued the plaintiffs. 489 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:16,160 Speaker 3: The women spoke up, and what they had to say 490 00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:19,479 Speaker 3: did not help Chuck Barry's cause they had had it 491 00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:24,840 Speaker 3: with the man known around Barry Park as Charles Scharisa Kissner, 492 00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:27,000 Speaker 3: who lived on Chuck's property with her mom and one 493 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:29,600 Speaker 3: of the trailers, claimed that Chuck approached her one day 494 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:31,040 Speaker 3: and told her that he could see her in her 495 00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:34,600 Speaker 3: room from the big house. According to Sharisa, he said quote, 496 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:37,200 Speaker 3: I was thinking of you yesterday while I was playing 497 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:43,080 Speaker 3: with myself. What a fucking creep. Chuck sued who he 498 00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:46,520 Speaker 3: thought was a grand standing prosecutor. At the same time, 499 00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:49,840 Speaker 3: the prosecutor lost his reelection bid, and with that, the 500 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:53,720 Speaker 3: prosecutor's office dropped the child abuse charges. In turn, Chuck 501 00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:56,880 Speaker 3: dropped his suit against the prosecutor and pleaded guilty only 502 00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:59,600 Speaker 3: to the marijuana charge. He got what amounted to his 503 00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:02,760 Speaker 3: slap on the wrist, two years probation for the weed, 504 00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:05,560 Speaker 3: and an agreement to pay five thousand dollars to a 505 00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:10,080 Speaker 3: local substance abuse program that took care of the authorities, 506 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:13,280 Speaker 3: but it didn't take care of the women. They rolled 507 00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:16,640 Speaker 3: their multiple beefs concerning Chuck's toilet tapes into one class 508 00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,760 Speaker 3: action suit. Chuck paid out a reported one point two 509 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:22,760 Speaker 3: million in settlement fees to make the case go away, 510 00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:31,040 Speaker 3: and that was remarkably that Puff gone the case the beef. 511 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:34,600 Speaker 3: Chuck's reputation and subsequent legacy barely took a hit. 512 00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:37,680 Speaker 2: Afterward, and for. 513 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:40,160 Speaker 3: The rest of his life, Chuck was defiant in the 514 00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:43,880 Speaker 3: face of his critics, who was downright trumpion years before, 515 00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:45,840 Speaker 3: the unreliable narrator in chief? 516 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:47,680 Speaker 2: What do they know about it? Anyway? 517 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:52,560 Speaker 3: Videography to Chuck was merely self expression, just like music 518 00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:54,000 Speaker 3: and poetry and sex. 519 00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:56,000 Speaker 2: Rock and roll had once been. 520 00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:58,080 Speaker 3: His outlet in the early days anyway, when he was 521 00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:01,400 Speaker 3: younger making young people's music, But for the majority of 522 00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:04,400 Speaker 3: his life, rock and roll, the music he invented, was 523 00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:07,400 Speaker 3: just a job. Chuck Barry was the position he made 524 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:10,840 Speaker 3: for himself and filled. Charles was who he really was. 525 00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:16,160 Speaker 3: Chuck Berry was defiant, but he wasn't angry. Later in life, 526 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:19,240 Speaker 3: his critics, the ones from the Big newspapers and magazines 527 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:21,960 Speaker 3: back East would from time to time attempt to get 528 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:25,120 Speaker 3: Chuck to cop to that rock and roll racial resentment rap, 529 00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:27,640 Speaker 3: the white man stealing from the black man. How did 530 00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:31,200 Speaker 3: Chuck feel about being appropriated that sort of thing? Chuck 531 00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:33,720 Speaker 3: never took debate, even if he knew he had a case. 532 00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:37,080 Speaker 3: The critics take was lazy and simple. They didn't get it. 533 00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:40,240 Speaker 3: Chuck knew what his contribution was. He didn't need the 534 00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:43,360 Speaker 3: king of rock and roll moniker that Elvis had. Sure 535 00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:46,080 Speaker 3: he wouldn't mind Elvis's bank account or the freedom Elvis 536 00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:48,120 Speaker 3: was allowed to come and go as he pleased, to 537 00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:51,000 Speaker 3: sleep with whoever he wanted to be, whoever he wanted 538 00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:54,040 Speaker 3: to be. But Chuck was content with what he'd accomplished. 539 00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,040 Speaker 3: He'd admitted as much to The New York Times. Once, 540 00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:00,520 Speaker 3: had I've been pushed like Colonel Parker pushed out Elvis, 541 00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:02,600 Speaker 3: had it been a white boy like Elvis, sure it 542 00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:05,640 Speaker 3: would have been different. He regretted the comment as soon 543 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,400 Speaker 3: as he left his lips. Why let him see his sweat, 544 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:12,040 Speaker 3: Why give him the satisfaction? Besides, what really bothered him 545 00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:15,040 Speaker 3: was how racist attitudes affected who and how you could 546 00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:18,000 Speaker 3: love free love was always a joke. 547 00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:20,480 Speaker 2: Asked Sammy Davis Junior about free love. 548 00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:23,760 Speaker 3: Chuck was unable to love how he wanted, and unlike 549 00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:25,920 Speaker 3: the white artists who were starting out at the same 550 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:29,440 Speaker 3: time as him, Chuck couldn't express this injustice through music. 551 00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:33,840 Speaker 3: Rock and roll was just that rock and roll. It 552 00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:36,000 Speaker 3: stayed the same no matter how much it changed, no 553 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:38,200 Speaker 3: matter who was playing it or what they were wearing, 554 00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:41,120 Speaker 3: no matter what year it was, There was only one constant, 555 00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:45,640 Speaker 3: Chuck Berry, one thread, his riff, and Chuck had other 556 00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:48,800 Speaker 3: interests he could rely on, explore, tinker with, and dabble in. 557 00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:52,600 Speaker 3: Chuck was writing again and thinking about music. He wasn't 558 00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:55,160 Speaker 3: writing about sex, and he wasn't writing poems. He was 559 00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:57,360 Speaker 3: giving his hand a spin at music criticism. 560 00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:02,120 Speaker 2: And why not? What did the critics action? We know anyway? Nothing. 561 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:04,760 Speaker 3: That's what he was Chuck Berry, and he invented rock 562 00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:06,920 Speaker 3: and roll. So who better an authority to opine on 563 00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:08,840 Speaker 3: this new type of music that the kids are all 564 00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:09,400 Speaker 3: telling him. 565 00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:12,000 Speaker 2: Was going to make rock and roll obsolete? Punk rock. 566 00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:15,760 Speaker 3: Chuck was approached by some local kids who had a 567 00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:18,760 Speaker 3: handmade zine called jet Lag and asked to give his 568 00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:21,400 Speaker 3: take on some of the more popular punk records that 569 00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:24,880 Speaker 3: had come out over the past couple of years. Chuck 570 00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:27,520 Speaker 3: thought that writing some record reviews would be fun, and 571 00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:30,400 Speaker 3: it was, but as he expected, it was all just 572 00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:33,960 Speaker 3: rock and roll. Chuck said of the ramone Sheena is 573 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:36,840 Speaker 3: a punk rocker, a good little jump number. These guys 574 00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:39,640 Speaker 3: remind me of myself when I first started. I only 575 00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:42,960 Speaker 3: knew three chords too. And on God Save the Queen 576 00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:46,160 Speaker 3: by the sex Pistols, Chuck stated, can't understand most of 577 00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:48,280 Speaker 3: the vocals. If you're going to be mad, at least 578 00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:53,480 Speaker 3: let the people know what you're mad about. Chuck Berry 579 00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:57,719 Speaker 3: wasn't mad. He was Chuck Berry, Charles Anderson, Edward Berry. 580 00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:01,520 Speaker 3: Now that guy had a legitimate beef. He also had 581 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:04,280 Speaker 3: some videotapes to edit and a second book to write. 582 00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:07,640 Speaker 3: Chuck Berry said so in the pages of his autobiography, 583 00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:11,480 Speaker 3: penned from behind Bars quote, now that I know much 584 00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:14,360 Speaker 3: more about the writing of a book, strangely enough, I 585 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:17,360 Speaker 3: intend to go for another one that I will enjoy. 586 00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:21,360 Speaker 3: The true story of my sex life shall not infringe 587 00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:24,440 Speaker 3: on anyone or thing but me and my excessive desire 588 00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:28,680 Speaker 3: to continue melting the ice of American hypocrisy regarding behavior 589 00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:31,880 Speaker 3: and beliefs that are now in the closet an only 590 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:38,320 Speaker 3: surface in court, crime or comical conversation. End quote Chuck Berry, 591 00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:44,480 Speaker 3: a reliable narrator or a disgrace. I'm Jake Brennan and 592 00:33:44,720 --> 00:34:03,320 Speaker 3: this is Disgraceland. Disgraceland was created by Yours Truly and 593 00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:05,120 Speaker 3: is produced in partnership. 594 00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:05,680 Speaker 2: With Double Elvis. 595 00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:08,160 Speaker 3: Credits for this episode can be found on the show 596 00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:12,120 Speaker 3: notes page at disgracelampod dot com. If you're listening as a. 597 00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:15,279 Speaker 4: Disgraceland All Access member, thank you for supporting the show. 598 00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:18,120 Speaker 4: We really appreciate it, and if not, you can become 599 00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:21,520 Speaker 4: a member right now by going to disgracelampod dot com 600 00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:25,879 Speaker 4: slash Membership. Members can listen to every episode of Disgraceland 601 00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:29,880 Speaker 4: ad free, Plus you'll get one brand new exclusive episode 602 00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:34,160 Speaker 4: every month, weekly unscripted bonus episode, special audio collections, and 603 00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:39,080 Speaker 4: early access to merchandise and events. Visit disgracelampod dot com 604 00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:42,279 Speaker 4: slash membership for details, rate and review the show, and 605 00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:46,359 Speaker 4: follow us on Instagram, TikTok, Twitter, and Facebook at disgracelampod 606 00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:51,160 Speaker 4: and on YouTube at YouTube dot com slash at disgracelampod, 607 00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:52,040 Speaker 4: rock a roller. 608 00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:55,960 Speaker 2: He Thebann