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Speaker 1: Body das, but Joseph's got more. As many of you know,

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Speaker 1: I've always had a fascination with the fire service. I

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Speaker 1: think that maybe a lot of it has to do

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Speaker 1: with a little boy in me. When I was a

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Speaker 1: little boy. Actually, my uncle, who my dearly loved, bought

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Speaker 1: me a Texaco fire chief fire helmet that actually had

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Speaker 1: a radio inside of it. Now this is in the sixties,

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Speaker 1: this was really high tech stuff. But just the pure

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Speaker 1: bravery of what these people do. The old adage of

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Speaker 1: while everyone else is running away from a burning structure,

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Speaker 1: they're running into it. But just for a moment, think

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Speaker 1: about this. A fire at a home, a mansion as

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Speaker 1: it's been referred to, was so big that it took

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Speaker 1: almost twenty fire companies to come and knock this thing down.

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Speaker 1: And when they finally got it knocked down, they discovered

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Speaker 1: the bodies of three individuals inside of that home. And oh,

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Speaker 1: by the way, outside of that mansion, another decendent lying

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Speaker 1: in the front yard with five gunshot wounds. I'm Joseph

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Speaker 1: Scott Morgan, and this is body bags. I've got a

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Speaker 1: pretty good relationship with the firefighters here in where Kim

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Speaker 1: and I live in Jacksonville, Alabama. And I have taken

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Speaker 1: my grandson, who is six years old, to the fire station.

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Speaker 1: When he comes in visits Papa and Gammy, and he

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Speaker 1: thinks that he is in heaven, and it brings me

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Speaker 1: joy because I always felt the same way when I

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Speaker 1: was a little boy. And you know, they'll let him

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Speaker 1: stand on the rails on the side of the thing

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Speaker 1: and get inside the cab and look at all the hoses.

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Speaker 1: They'll show him how everything works. Oh my gosh. But

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Speaker 1: the only thing, Dave, is there's no dalmation. Yeah, I guess. So. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: if you watch that, Oh god, that that that movie.

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Speaker 1: Glad you brought that up. That movie really disturbed me.

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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, who would do that? I'm such a

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Speaker 1: dog lover. But yeah, yeah, I always been fascinated by

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Speaker 1: by firefighters. I've had the privilege in the honor of

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Speaker 1: teaching firefighters relative to death investigation because it's a unique

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Speaker 1: skill set that you have to acquire along the way

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Speaker 1: being able to assess to assess bodies that have been burned.

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Speaker 2: And so anyway, you said unique skill set, and all

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Speaker 2: I can think of is whenever I see one of these. Now, yeah,

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Speaker 2: from what you've told me it really is. I've always

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Speaker 2: had a great feeling for those who serve others, whether

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Speaker 2: it's police, fire rescue, but knowing how involved they are

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Speaker 2: in the process after the fact, there's so much information

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Speaker 2: that you get from a fire and what happens to people.

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Speaker 2: It just is really beyond. It's a whole lot more

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Speaker 2: than just pouring water on the fire.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it is. And here's another little insight into fire

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Speaker 1: service of folks. It's not just arsonal investigators that are

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Speaker 1: out there. I have learned just as much from the

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Speaker 1: most junior person that's on a truck and when I'm

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Speaker 1: inside of a dwelling and working a case about points

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Speaker 1: of origin, or they're not really designating points of origin.

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Speaker 1: They're saying they'll say, hey, look here, there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of damage. And of course, for most of us, you know,

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Speaker 1: when you're in that environment, if you can kind of

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Speaker 1: suss out those particular areas where there is the most

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Speaker 1: damage at a location, that gives you an idea that

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Speaker 1: that's where the fire burned the hottest, and most of

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Speaker 1: the time, by deduction, you believe that that's where it's

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Speaker 1: been burning longest airgo that's where the fire may may

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Speaker 1: have started and with what we're going to discuss now

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Speaker 1: in today, Dave, relative to this, I'll go and say

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Speaker 1: it quadruple homicide. How many of these do we actually cover? Dave?

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Speaker 1: This is something that's been lingering since twenty eighteen, and

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Speaker 1: just let me just let's take a step back and

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Speaker 1: just think about this. First Off, this podcast did not

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Speaker 1: exist when these events went down. Secondly, the if I'm

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Speaker 1: not mistaken, the current administration that we have in Washington

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Speaker 1: was not in power at the time. This is before

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Speaker 1: the COVID lockdowns. And I mean just go on and on.

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Speaker 1: So we're talking now, we're six years down range from

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Speaker 1: a quadruple homicide that still has not gone to trial.

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Speaker 1: And of course we're talking about the Mansion murders what

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Speaker 1: has become the mansion murders in New Jersey day.

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Speaker 2: We're almost six years to the day that the events

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Speaker 2: that we're going to talk about happened in November twentieth

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Speaker 2: of twenty eighteen, six years ago Donald Trump was in office.

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Speaker 2: You mentioned the administrations and how things have changed. The

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Speaker 2: six years is a long time to go to trial.

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Speaker 2: And the reason is it's a complicated case and there

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Speaker 2: are a lot of different personalities running in here, family members,

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Speaker 2: what have you? We have Keith Canaro, his wife Jennifer,

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Speaker 2: their children, Jesse eleven at the time and Sophia eight

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Speaker 2: at the time. Those are the victims. It even gets

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Speaker 2: a little worse when you look at Keith Canaro was

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Speaker 2: actually shot in the head his multiple times. His wife

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Speaker 2: was shot and stabbed, the two children were stabbed and

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Speaker 2: full disclosure. I reached out to Joe in talking about

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Speaker 2: this and I said, what does that all mean? I mean,

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Speaker 2: does this mean there's a closeness when we've talked about killing,

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Speaker 2: you know, strangling and stabbing and things like that, those

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Speaker 2: seem to be so much more personal than shooting. Some

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Speaker 2: But the case didn't end right there with the quadruplehamicide

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Speaker 2: because on the same day, at the same time roughly

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Speaker 2: another fire took place at another house. But it was

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Speaker 2: Keith Kannaro's older brother, Paul, Yeah, his wife and two daughters.

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Speaker 2: Adult daughters were at home in bed when the fire

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Speaker 2: breaks out at their house early in the morning, and

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Speaker 2: Paul Canero, in their eyes, is a hero. Paul saved

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Speaker 2: his family from the fire that was engulfing their home.

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Speaker 2: Didn't take Fire Department long to realize this is not

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Speaker 2: the same as what took place at the other Knaro home.

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Speaker 2: Part one, Part two. There's a bunch of gas cans

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Speaker 2: of this house.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, there were, Dave. And first off, I got

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Speaker 1: to tell all of our friends, I've got the best

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Speaker 1: producer in the business. You would not believe the detail

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Speaker 1: that my buddy Dave Mack went into and kind of

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Speaker 1: laying out the show. And it's incredible. And one of

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Speaker 1: the things that Dave that you actually pointed out, which

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Speaker 1: is very insightful in this case, is the fact that

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Speaker 1: when you look when you look at Paul's house where

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Speaker 1: the secondary fire was set, which by the way, is

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Speaker 1: ten miles away from the mansion, and it's no small

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Speaker 1: house either. I mean, it's a house that most people

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Speaker 1: would be proud to have. But you mentioned something very

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Speaker 1: specifically about the fires, because there were multiple fires, and

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Speaker 1: you zeroed in on the idea that these are kind

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Speaker 1: of peripheral. These fires are they're they're externalized, they're peripheral.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't look like what you have at the mansion

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Speaker 1: on any level. And I think that that and you know,

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Speaker 1: when when you begin to see this kind of complex

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Speaker 1: and Buddy is it complex, this relationship that these two

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Speaker 1: brothers had with one another. It's gonna I'll put it

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Speaker 1: to you this way, as mildly as I can. It

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Speaker 1: will give investigators pause. Wow, you know, because they're they're

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Speaker 1: gonna be running down the list, running down the list

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Speaker 1: of you know who, who in the world, you know

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Speaker 1: would want to do this. And early on I think

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Speaker 1: that at Paul's home they determined pretty quickly that this

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Speaker 1: is a fire that was started with purpose by an individual.

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Speaker 1: This is not an act of God. Uh, this is

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Speaker 1: not a malfunction with an electrical outlet. Uh. This is

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Speaker 1: not somebody that had an oil an oil heater that's

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Speaker 1: a into a bunch of old, dirty, dry rags. That's

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Speaker 1: not what this is. And so the police are looking

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Speaker 1: for this thing very carefully, and they're going to look

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Speaker 1: at all the principles because Dave the fireback of the mansion.

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Speaker 1: Remember I was talking about how extensive this thing is

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Speaker 1: and how vast it is. You're calling in all of

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Speaker 1: these companies, fire companies to put this thing out. They're gonna,

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Speaker 1: you know, they'll say, my Lord in Heaven that how

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Speaker 1: intense was this thing and how did it get so big?

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Speaker 1: That it would take all of this power to put

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Speaker 1: this fire out.

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Speaker 2: I'm glad you pointed that out, Joe, because the difference

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Speaker 2: in the size of the homes actually explains the difference

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Speaker 2: of the brothers in the dynamic we have. Oh, Paul

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Speaker 2: Canaro is the older brother. Keith Canaro is the younger brother.

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Speaker 2: They're close in age, though they're like a year and

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Speaker 2: a half apart, kind of thing like my brother and

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Speaker 2: I in that regard, and that brings about a very

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Speaker 2: different scenario for both men. Keith is a very smart

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Speaker 2: man in intellectually guy, this is a man's man first

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Speaker 2: of all, loves his family, but he's very very smart.

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Speaker 2: The same cannot be said for the older brother, Paul,

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Speaker 2: not saying he's a dullert or anything like that, but

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Speaker 2: there was some jealousy that was right there. Because the

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Speaker 2: brothers together owned a company called Ecostar Pest and Ecostar

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Speaker 2: Pest Management. This was a company they owned together. It's

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Speaker 2: the kind of job that you could put together based

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Speaker 2: on studying insects and basic things around your house that

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Speaker 2: you have to get rid of. That kind of thing.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't require a mental giant to do this. It

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Speaker 2: does require some effort on the part of both men,

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Speaker 2: and they put the time in. It's the second business

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Speaker 2: that actually requires intelligence. It is education. It requires an

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Speaker 2: ongoing learning experience to stay on top. Talking about an

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Speaker 2: IT business called venture, it's an IT venture that is

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Speaker 2: called Square One. Now, Square one was started by Keith Canero.

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Speaker 2: I say started by Keith Canaro because it's very important

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Speaker 2: to this. Together they had Ecostar Pest Control Management. But

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Speaker 2: Keith started Square One by himself and hired his brother.

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Speaker 2: So the older brother now is an employee of the

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Speaker 2: younger brother. They are not partners. And from the looks

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Speaker 2: of everything that we're going to tell you about today,

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Speaker 2: that has everything to do with motive. And I have

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Speaker 2: to ask you this, Joe. You've been around so many homicides,

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Speaker 2: and you know the legal aspects of what the prosecutors

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Speaker 2: are looking for and what the defense is looking for.

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Speaker 2: In your discussions with these guys, do they ever talk

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Speaker 2: about motive with you?

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Speaker 1: No, it's something you know. And our friend Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: always says, you don't have to prove motive, but in

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Speaker 1: order to many times understand the dynamics of everything that

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Speaker 1: are going on. You know, at a scene that the

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Speaker 1: motive will float around in the air. All right, the

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Speaker 1: courts don't require you to prove motive. But when you're

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Speaker 1: trying to put together a case, and particularly one that

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Speaker 1: is so very complex, is this, as a matter of fact,

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Speaker 1: on a little side, I'd like to just say this.

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Speaker 1: I was listening to a motion that was before the

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Speaker 1: court and one of Paul Canaro's attorneys, one of his

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Speaker 1: public defenders, was saying to the judge, Judge, we we

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Speaker 1: have to have the prosecution tell us what their goal

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Speaker 1: is that they're going to prove. We we can't. We

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Speaker 1: don't have the ability to sort through what she uh,

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Speaker 1: she referred to as a term I've never heard before

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Speaker 1: as a dump truck approach. Where they've got she she

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Speaker 1: termed it as terabytes of data that are being dumped.

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Speaker 1: And the data is so vast because you're talking about,

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Speaker 1: you know, obviously the scenes. We've got bodies, right, we've

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Speaker 1: got methods of homicide here, we've got fires, multiple fires,

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Speaker 1: and multiple locations. And oh, by the way, we've got

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Speaker 1: complex finance considerations and just a little add on here

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Speaker 1: that just occurred a few days ago with this case,

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Speaker 1: is the validity of whether or not certain types of

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Speaker 1: DNA testing can be admissible. They've got a guy that's

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Speaker 1: that's offering pre trial testimony that's all the way in

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Speaker 1: from New Zealand. And so it gives you an idea

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Speaker 1: how complex this thing is. But yeah, I mean you

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Speaker 1: think about motive, and you know, motive is kind of

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Speaker 1: this this house if you if you think about it

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Speaker 1: this way that is created, you know, with you know,

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Speaker 1: the why how do you purpose this death? And all

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Speaker 1: of the little you know, uh, peripheral items that come

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Speaker 1: along the forensics and the financials, and financials can be forensics. Uh,

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Speaker 1: even electronic data. They're kind of the murals that are

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Speaker 1: painted on the wall of this house. You know that

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Speaker 1: you're walking through and you're looking at it. So you

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Speaker 1: know the motive though it does not have to be proved,

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Speaker 1: is sometimes that singular bit of data are information that

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Speaker 1: kind of frames everything out.

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Speaker 2: The shocking part of all this, Joe, is when you

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Speaker 2: have family members that do have a relationship and you

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Speaker 2: start talking about DNA and where it's collected. Isn't it

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Speaker 2: expected that people you have a relationship with that you

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Speaker 2: would have especially if you're dealing with children where you

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Speaker 2: pick children up and you hold them and things like that.

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Speaker 2: Wouldn't there be a reasonable expectation that your DNA could

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Speaker 2: end up on their clothing or on their toys or

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Speaker 2: anything else. I mean, wouldn't there be a reasonable expectation

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Speaker 2: that the DNA from the suspect here could be found

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Speaker 2: on or around the victims because they're related.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it is. But you know, people make so much

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Speaker 1: of that, and we have to go back to sourcing, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, there's an expectation. I don't know, if

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Speaker 1: you're holding you know, your niece or your nephew and

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Speaker 1: they sneeze on you, for instance, Okay, well, uh, you're

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Speaker 1: gonna have you know, obviously, uh, mucus and saliva and

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Speaker 1: everything that's mixed with that. Okay, But it's it's it's

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Speaker 1: it's intellectually dishonest, I think. Uh, for someone to say, well,

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Speaker 1: DNA is DNA, well you have to go back to

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Speaker 1: the sourcing. In this particular case, you're talking about commingling

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Speaker 1: of Keith and his wife's DNA. Oh and by the way,

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Speaker 1: the source is blood, all right, So even if you're related,

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Speaker 1: you know, and of course you know, Keith is related

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Speaker 1: to his sister in law by marriage. You don't expect

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Speaker 1: to find his sister in law's blood on an item

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Speaker 1: of clothing commingled with your with his brother's blood. So

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Speaker 1: you have to be very exacting about this, uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: because we're often you know, we're off in this land

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Speaker 1: now relative to DNA, where we're talking about touch DNA.

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Speaker 1: These partial bits that are out there, and yeah, you

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Speaker 1: can acquire those from anywhere. But if you're sourcing DNA

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Speaker 1: a DNA profile from a very rich source, which in

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Speaker 1: fact is blood, you know, I probably the richest source

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Speaker 1: that you can obtain it from. It is dishonest, I

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Speaker 1: think intellectually to say that, oh, this, this is just

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Speaker 1: a passive deposition of this. No, that's not the case.

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Speaker 1: That's not the case. And I think, but defense attorneys

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Speaker 1: do the defense attorney thing, and they're going to try

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Speaker 1: to raise reasonable doubt case on this day. David, I

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Speaker 1: know for a fact that you have been a business

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Speaker 1: person your entire adult life. This is something that runs

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Speaker 1: completely contrary to the course of my career that I

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Speaker 1: have had. You know, I if you're a government employee,

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Speaker 1: which I essentially have been my entire life, you know,

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Speaker 1: even starting you know, in the army at eighteen years old,

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Speaker 1: you know that you're going to have a steady paycheck

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Speaker 1: coming in. But when you're when you're a businessman, there's

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Speaker 1: fast and uh, there's famine.

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Speaker 2: Right, No, you're right, there's feast and famine. Generally, feast

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Speaker 2: and famine the dice on your own paycheck, you know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there's feast and famine. And so you take the

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Speaker 1: highs with the lows, right, and so there's not always

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Speaker 1: going to be a guarantee that you're going to be,

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Speaker 1: you know, kicking it in the Beverly Hillbillies mansion. You know,

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Speaker 1: every day of your life, you know, you have hard times.

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Speaker 1: What's the old the old adage my granny used to use, Uh,

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Speaker 1: we're going to have poking grits tonight. You poke your

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Speaker 1: head under the table and grit your teeth. Sometimes sometimes

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Speaker 1: you run, you run short, but you know you have

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Speaker 1: to prepare, you know, prepare for those times. And one

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Speaker 1: of the things that I'm hearing over and over and

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Speaker 1: over again with the mansion murder case or cases again,

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Speaker 1: is that there is a financial motivation, you know behind

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Speaker 1: Let's just face it, Uh, these the slaughter that has

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Speaker 1: taken place at this home day.

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Speaker 2: And that's why I was asking you earlier about motive,

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Speaker 2: because I'm conditioned to as a as someone who follows

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Speaker 2: along with crime related news and things, I need to

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Speaker 2: know why something happened. Not that the court needs it,

295
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Speaker 2: I need it personally. I have to know what made

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Speaker 2: this person this side this was the best course of

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Speaker 2: action for them. And in this case, I actually, at

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Speaker 2: first looking at it, I went, this is way beyond

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Speaker 2: and it still is, by the way, way beyond what

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Speaker 2: I would have thought, because we do have a jealousy

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Speaker 2: scenario playing out. It happens with brothers a lot. These

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Speaker 2: two men are in business and there is a separation

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Speaker 2: of money. As I mentioned earlier, Joe, the brothers are

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Speaker 2: partners in the pest control company. They are not equal

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Speaker 2: partners in Square one the tech company. The tech company

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Speaker 2: is beyond what Paul Canaro could actually be involved in

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Speaker 2: at the inception, But Keith brought his brother along and

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Speaker 2: paid him a quarter of a million dollars a year

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Speaker 2: to be a part of this company.

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Speaker 1: Now too shabby, by the way, No.

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Speaker 2: Not too shabby. They do live in New Jersey, so

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Speaker 2: it's a little bit different than it is in you

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Speaker 2: know where you and I live. But it's still but setting.

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Speaker 1: On the income he's sharing, he's profit sharing in the

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Speaker 1: insect or the oh extermination business obviously, so we're talking

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Speaker 1: more money than simply what would come from the IT business, right.

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Speaker 2: Yes, And there was something else going on in their

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Speaker 2: dynamic that Keith, well, Keith didn't feel like Paul was

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Speaker 2: pulling his own weight when it came to the IT company.

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Speaker 2: He felt like Paul was spending too much money. And

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Speaker 2: this is a divide because Keith came up with the company.

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Speaker 2: Keith was the brains behind the company. He brought his

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Speaker 2: brother in as a partner to help him out. But

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Speaker 2: his brother was not pulling his fair share of the weight,

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Speaker 2: and his brother was spending money that Keith didn't think

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Speaker 2: he was entitled to spend from the companies. So there

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Speaker 2: was a real thing going. But when you look at

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Speaker 2: it even goes a step further. Keith and his wife

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Speaker 2: were putting they were I say, younger brother, but he

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Speaker 2: wasn't that much younger. I mean their ages are a

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Speaker 2: year and a half separated, Okay, but still it means

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Speaker 2: something in disregard Keith Canaro and his wife Jennifer actually

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Speaker 2: had accounts set up for their children's college education and

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Speaker 2: Keith Ivy League education. So he's putting the money away

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Speaker 2: so his children can experience the same type of education

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Speaker 2: he did. That is not small change.

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Speaker 1: Holy smokes, it's not.

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Speaker 2: And they had found out, they being Keith and Jennifer,

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Speaker 2: they found out that over the last several months, maybe years,

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Speaker 2: that Paul was actually siphoning money from his niece and nephew,

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Speaker 2: his brother's children. He was siphoning money from their college

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Speaker 2: accounts and putting it into his own college accounts for

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Speaker 2: his children. He has two adult daughters, Paul does. It

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Speaker 2: came to the tune of about ninety thousand dollars Joe,

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Speaker 2: ninety thousand dollars that Paul is accused of taking from

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Speaker 2: his brother's children. It's a lot of money, Yeah, it is.

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Speaker 1: And here's another thing. You know, you were talking about motive.

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Speaker 1: I think, well, let's don't focus on motive. Let's focus

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Speaker 1: on within the family dynamic response. Any father that has

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Speaker 1: been squirreling away Nichols to fund the education of their

351
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Speaker 1: child or children moving forward, because these kids are not

352
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Speaker 1: necessarily you know, toddlers, but they're at that critical point

353
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Speaker 1: where if you don't have a fund set up by

354
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Speaker 1: this time, you're really behind the curve, particularly when you're

355
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Speaker 1: talking about an ivy league education. Yeah, there is just something. Yeah,

356
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Speaker 1: and just the fact that he is working at this

357
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Speaker 1: in order to put moneies toward his children's education. Can

358
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Speaker 1: can you imagine when he finds out and his wife

359
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Speaker 1: finds out, the rage that would be involved in this,

360
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Speaker 1: and the anger you know that comes about because this

361
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Speaker 1: is not It's one thing if somebody comes after you,

362
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Speaker 1: but but you're not just siphoning money away from you know,

363
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Speaker 1: paying some you know, the registrar's office, you know for

364
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Speaker 1: or you know for for tuition. You're actually you're ruining

365
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Speaker 1: your potentially or this is the way apparently you're ruining

366
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Speaker 1: their opportunity, you know, in the future. I mean, that's

367
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Speaker 1: the way I would look at it as a dad,

368
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Speaker 1: and I'd have a I'd have a pretty uh, pretty

369
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Speaker 1: robust response. Team had tried to go in and pick

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Speaker 1: my pocket, I don't care if they're my brother, sister

371
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Speaker 1: or my granny, I don't care. There will be a

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Speaker 1: robust response. And do you think, perhaps, Dave, that this

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Speaker 1: is what had occurred.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely one percent, because it was bad enough being talked

375
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Speaker 2: about by Jennifer and Keith that Jennifer talked to her

376
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Speaker 2: dad about it. It was beyond just we're not just

377
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 2: discussing it as a couple now, it's now gone to

378
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 2: I'm telling my daddy kind of thing. You know, Jennifer

379
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:20,480
Speaker 2: was telling her father and her father. And this is

380
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Speaker 2: where you mentioned earlier. We've got a six year difference

381
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Speaker 2: between when this happened and where we are now. And

382
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Speaker 2: I want to throw something out there that there is

383
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:35,119
Speaker 2: a civil suit that is being filed along with us.

384
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Speaker 2: Hadn't even got to the criminal trial yet of Paul Canaro,

385
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:42,880
Speaker 2: but there's a civil suit that has been filed by

386
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Speaker 2: Jennifer's father, and it's about the money that was taken.

387
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:52,080
Speaker 2: And so Paul Canaro has been accused of the murders

388
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Speaker 2: of his brother and his brother's family, and he's accused

389
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Speaker 2: of arson. He's now accused of stealing money from his

390
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:05,439
Speaker 2: own niece and nephew's college fund. Paul Canaro is not

391
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:08,320
Speaker 2: in good shape right now, Joe. And this is what

392
00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:12,359
Speaker 2: was happening in the world, okay at that time of

393
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:16,639
Speaker 2: twenty eighteen. In November, on November twentieth, Paul Canaro was

394
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:20,919
Speaker 2: staring right down the highway and there are a number

395
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:29,400
Speaker 2: of lights heading towards him, and he decided to stage

396
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 2: two fires, one to take out to cover up the

397
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 2: murder of his brother and his brother's wife and children,

398
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:38,440
Speaker 2: and the other to make it look like he also

399
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:40,800
Speaker 2: was a victim, like somebody was coming after both of

400
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:42,680
Speaker 2: the Canaro brothers and their families.

401
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:50,880
Speaker 1: Joe, Yeah, and I've heard people allude to various things.

402
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:56,080
Speaker 1: There's been chatter, you know, in social media. Lord, there's

403
00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 1: never chatter, and so is there and it's all true.

404
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and it's all true. You you know, of course,

405
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:06,600
Speaker 1: one of the things that always raises its head, it

406
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:10,239
Speaker 1: raises its head is the specter of organized crime. You know,

407
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:12,800
Speaker 1: that has been hinted at over a period of time

408
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 1: other individuals within the circle that had felt slided in

409
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:21,800
Speaker 1: business deals, all these sorts of things, you know, and

410
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:26,040
Speaker 1: that that swirl around this case, you know, goes to,

411
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:31,560
Speaker 1: you know, whatever defense is being offered up on behalf

412
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:37,960
Speaker 1: of the accused, where you can generate enough reasonable doubt

413
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:43,520
Speaker 1: to put that into the minds of potential jurors. And

414
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 1: you know, you this case, which by the way, again

415
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:52,520
Speaker 1: has still yet to come to trial, which we believe.

416
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Speaker 1: Now there will be a date set and we will

417
00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 1: see this thing come to fruition unless it gets delayed again.

418
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:05,959
Speaker 1: And you think about this, Dave, we're talking six years.

419
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:10,720
Speaker 1: How many people you know, these these two cases, this,

420
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:14,840
Speaker 1: these two fires happened only ten miles apart. Do you

421
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 1: think the people that are going to occupy the jury

422
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:21,960
Speaker 1: space up there have heard about these cases? It's six years,

423
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:25,960
Speaker 1: you know. We talk about a lot of cases where

424
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:29,720
Speaker 1: you know, uh, the defense will say, well, the jury

425
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:32,320
Speaker 1: pool is going to be tainted because it's been inflamed

426
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:37,080
Speaker 1: by uh, you know, media coverage and all that. Dude,

427
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 1: this is like media coverage. Now add on to this

428
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:47,720
Speaker 1: this idea of time, and how much more impactful that's

429
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 1: going to be to the pool that will be brought

430
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 1: in and some of this, some of this data that

431
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 1: they're going to be presenting in this trial, particularly the

432
00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:00,320
Speaker 1: forensic data, is going to be very very complain x.

433
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 1: The financials are going to be very complex, or they

434
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 1: will be made at least to appear very complex, which

435
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:08,720
Speaker 1: to me, I mean if you sit me down in

436
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 1: a lab and you start talking to me about toxicology

437
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 1: and DNA. Though I'm not an expert in DNA, I

438
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:20,640
Speaker 1: understand it and I can communicate it. You start talking

439
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:23,240
Speaker 1: to me about financials and I, first off, I'll go

440
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:26,880
Speaker 1: to sleep, and secondly, I don't. I don't. I don't

441
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:31,080
Speaker 1: understand it most of the time, and understand the movement

442
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:33,680
Speaker 1: of moneyes uh though you know in that way, So

443
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:36,120
Speaker 1: you're talking about bringing in a whole other group of

444
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:38,160
Speaker 1: experts that are going to have to you know, there

445
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:40,800
Speaker 1: will be a pantheon of these people that will that

446
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 1: will come across the stage in the courtroom. And that's

447
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:46,960
Speaker 1: that's very important to remember. You know. It's just like

448
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:51,560
Speaker 1: I mentioned earlier, there's actually a gentleman from New Zealand

449
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:55,239
Speaker 1: that's offering, you know, pre trial testimony right now in

450
00:30:55,280 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 1: these motions relative to admissibility of this rather complexity and ate, Well,

451
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 1: how much more do they have that they're going to

452
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:06,720
Speaker 1: be talking about. Well, we're going to have ballistic information

453
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:08,880
Speaker 1: that's going to be coming out because you know, two

454
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:13,840
Speaker 1: of the victims in this case, one has shot multiple times,

455
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 1: another has shot a single time. And oh, by the bye,

456
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:21,200
Speaker 1: we've also got stab wounds that are involved in this case.

457
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 1: And oh, by the way, we're going to have to

458
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:29,400
Speaker 1: have opinions rendered about the complexity of fire and how

459
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:33,680
Speaker 1: fires initiate and how they're maintained, and oh, by the way,

460
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 1: were they alive or were they dead when the fires

461
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 1: were started? You know, all of those dynamics are going

462
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 1: to come into play here, Dave. And this is not

463
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:46,440
Speaker 1: I don't think that this this trial just from an

464
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 1: evidentiary standpoint, just from the forensic stuff, this is not

465
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 1: something that is going to be over and done with

466
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:56,520
Speaker 1: really really quickly. This is going to be something that

467
00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 1: will take quite a while to kind of make it

468
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:20,720
Speaker 1: through everything that happened that night in New Jersey. Hey, Dave, look,

469
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:25,160
Speaker 1: let's just back up a little bit. Can you, in

470
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:27,720
Speaker 1: your the way you do things, can you take us

471
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 1: back to that night in November twentieth, twenty eighteen, when

472
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 1: you know, this whole thing just kind of it develops

473
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 1: out of nowhere because you know, you've got kind of

474
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:46,360
Speaker 1: a wonky timeline here it is, and it's very it's

475
00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 1: very confusing I think for many folks.

476
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:52,440
Speaker 2: Well Joe is it was very confusing to me. And

477
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:56,240
Speaker 2: I was making notes on the timeline because what we

478
00:32:56,360 --> 00:33:03,640
Speaker 2: have is Vember twentieth is the day, twenty eighteen, and

479
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:13,480
Speaker 2: at twelve thirty in the afternoon, Keith Canaro, his wife Jennifer,

480
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:18,800
Speaker 2: and daughters and son and daughter, Jesse and Sophia. They

481
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 2: live in the mansion. That's why it's called the New

482
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:25,360
Speaker 2: Jersey Mansion murders. A next door neighbor around twelve thirty

483
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:32,120
Speaker 2: sees smoke coming from the Canaro mansion. At first, it

484
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 2: was noticed earlier, but they thought maybe they we had

485
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 2: just lit a fire we are talking about New Jersey

486
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 2: in late November, and thought it was that. But as

487
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 2: the fire continued to get bigger, that's when they looked, hey,

488
00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:46,719
Speaker 2: there's more smoke than should be and they call police.

489
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:50,560
Speaker 2: That's at twelve thirty in the day, ten minutes away,

490
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:57,960
Speaker 2: ten miles away. At five thirty that morning, Paul Canaro's

491
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:02,360
Speaker 2: home has a fire going on and police are called.

492
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:06,320
Speaker 2: Police and fire are called to his house. The reason

493
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:08,799
Speaker 2: I'm telling it to you that way is because that's

494
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:15,160
Speaker 2: how it was reported you had the mansion murder that

495
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:18,000
Speaker 2: they get. The coverage begins at you know, eleven thirty,

496
00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:21,800
Speaker 2: twelve thirty that day, but actually everything started much earlier.

497
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 2: And this was my question to you, Joseph Scott Morgan.

498
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:31,520
Speaker 2: We have Paul Canero, the older brother of Keith. His house,

499
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:35,400
Speaker 2: Paul's house is on fire at five thirty in the morning.

500
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:39,840
Speaker 2: He gets his wife and kids out of the house, kids,

501
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:43,120
Speaker 2: his adult daughters. He gets his family out of the house.

502
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:46,640
Speaker 2: To them, he's a hero. I mean, he heroically got

503
00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:49,799
Speaker 2: them out before sun up, saved their lives. The fire

504
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:54,080
Speaker 2: company came in extinguished the blaze. There were two specific

505
00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 2: places of fire at this house, Joe, and one was

506
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:03,400
Speaker 2: near the garage on the outside perimeter. The other was

507
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:09,000
Speaker 2: in the opposite direction but in the perimeter. Neither one

508
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:12,719
Speaker 2: of these fires was particularly large. Neither one of the

509
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:17,160
Speaker 2: fires caused a lot of damage. They did flame and smoke,

510
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:20,960
Speaker 2: but there wasn't a lot of damage done to the home.

511
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:24,560
Speaker 2: And as I mentioned, Paul, his wife and two adult

512
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:28,359
Speaker 2: daughters got out of the house. As the firemen are

513
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:32,920
Speaker 2: walking around the house and looking around, they notice a

514
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:36,840
Speaker 2: bunch of gas cans at this home, Joe, and that

515
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:45,600
Speaker 2: immediately makes them curious. As they're investigating this fire at

516
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:50,640
Speaker 2: the home of Paul Canaro ten miles away, the mansion

517
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:57,120
Speaker 2: fire is reported six hours later, and it's a much

518
00:35:57,239 --> 00:36:01,040
Speaker 2: different fire Joe. Whereas the fire at Paul Canaro's home

519
00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:05,600
Speaker 2: was put down and put out pretty quickly, wasn't even

520
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 2: completely damaged. The fire ten miles away at his brother's house,

521
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:16,719
Speaker 2: Keith Canaro, this fire has engulfed the mansion and it

522
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:18,759
Speaker 2: is so bad. It's not something that they can put

523
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:21,400
Speaker 2: out by one group. As a matter of fact, it

524
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:27,160
Speaker 2: took twenty different departments involved, twenty different fireplate that have

525
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:29,360
Speaker 2: had to be involved in putting out this fire.

526
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:29,680
Speaker 1: Joe.

527
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:32,760
Speaker 2: Granted, it is a mansion, it is a big home,

528
00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:36,760
Speaker 2: but the fire was so intense and burned for so long.

529
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:41,120
Speaker 2: It took hours of these guys working. And by the way,

530
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:46,320
Speaker 2: they found Keith Canaro out in the front yard murdered.

531
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:49,680
Speaker 2: He was dead from a gunshot. Went well, multiple gunshot

532
00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:50,640
Speaker 2: wounds to the head.

533
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:53,960
Speaker 1: They don't know. He's got one round in the back too,

534
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:55,360
Speaker 1: So he got.

535
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:57,480
Speaker 2: Four to the head and one to the back right

536
00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:00,160
Speaker 2: or something along those lines. He got multiple gunshots and

537
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:04,480
Speaker 2: he's out in the front yard. Keith Canaro is They

538
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:07,719
Speaker 2: don't know. They being the fire department, They don't know

539
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:11,239
Speaker 2: where his wife and two children are because Joe, it's

540
00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:14,040
Speaker 2: too messed up inside the house for them to go

541
00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:19,120
Speaker 2: in and find out the home was not safe For

542
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:22,120
Speaker 2: six or eight hours after they got the fire not

543
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:24,000
Speaker 2: just under control, but got to knock down. They were

544
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 2: afraid the roofline was going to fall the floors. It

545
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:29,479
Speaker 2: was that bad of a fire. They could not even

546
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:31,680
Speaker 2: get in to find out what happened.

547
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:37,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, and this I was taking. Took a look at

548
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:41,320
Speaker 1: quite a number of the photos from from the mansion.

549
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:44,400
Speaker 1: And you know, when I, you know, most of us,

550
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 1: I think that when we think about New Jersey, we

551
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:55,600
Speaker 1: think about we think about an area that's very, very congested,

552
00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:58,400
Speaker 1: and that you've got people living on top of one another.

553
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:03,359
Speaker 1: And I appeared on a podcast two years ago, I

554
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:08,040
Speaker 1: think with my friend Julian Dory. If you get a chance,

555
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:11,880
Speaker 1: check out his podcast, and I talked about my career

556
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:15,600
Speaker 1: on there, and he was actually and Julian is still

557
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:19,799
Speaker 1: in in Jersey, but his he had picked me up

558
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:22,399
Speaker 1: from the airport I think in Philly, and we went

559
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:28,200
Speaker 1: to his home in South Jersey and he said that

560
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:31,600
Speaker 1: people refer to it as the Alabama of New Jersey,

561
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:34,879
Speaker 1: that area where he lived. And you know, me, I'd

562
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:36,920
Speaker 1: never really spent that much time flowing in and out

563
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:42,040
Speaker 1: of airports, flown into Newark, flown into Trenton before, and

564
00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:45,040
Speaker 1: my gosh, when he was taking me through the countryside,

565
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:47,239
Speaker 1: I was like, wow, this, I understand why you say this.

566
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:52,440
Speaker 1: You know, there's like agricultural feels, and it's it's beautiful.

567
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:54,480
Speaker 1: You know, it's not what I mean. They call it

568
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:57,880
Speaker 1: the Garden State for a reason, and.

569
00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:01,759
Speaker 2: Thought that was kind of like a marketing thing, you know.

570
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:07,040
Speaker 1: No Jerseys. Jersey's quite quite beautiful. I mean it really is.

571
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:11,759
Speaker 1: And you know, he when I saw these images, Dave,

572
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:14,439
Speaker 1: I don't know if people have had time to take

573
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:17,719
Speaker 1: a look to see what this looks like. Why any

574
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 1: no one noticed? Really this this mansion as they're calling it,

575
00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:27,040
Speaker 1: and it is big. I mean, it's massive, it's isolated.

576
00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:30,240
Speaker 1: I can you can see one house kind of off

577
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 1: in the periphery. The house itself, the structure itself is

578
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:37,279
Speaker 1: so vast it literally has wings to it, you know,

579
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:39,799
Speaker 1: and they're kind of it's kind of horseshoe shaped in

580
00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:45,680
Speaker 1: a way. So you've got multiple levels to this thing.

581
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:49,200
Speaker 1: Obviously there's a basement and then there's multiple floors in

582
00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:52,760
Speaker 1: this thing, and then it's out on its own, big

583
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:56,319
Speaker 1: plot of land. And here's the thing that kind of

584
00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:59,719
Speaker 1: struck me about this is that if this had been

585
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:05,520
Speaker 1: in a really congested area, you would think that with

586
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:10,040
Speaker 1: the report of multiple gunshots being fired.

587
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:12,120
Speaker 2: Outside that house early in the morning.

588
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:16,640
Speaker 1: Someone would have heard it. But it didn't raise an

589
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:20,239
Speaker 1: alarm necessarily. You know, this time of year, I don't know,

590
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:23,680
Speaker 1: I think that you can deer hunt in you know,

591
00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:28,160
Speaker 1: in New Jersey, you can hunt for you know, other game.

592
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:32,839
Speaker 1: Perhaps we're in November when this is going on. Maybe

593
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:36,880
Speaker 1: it didn't draw the attention of anyone. It's not like,

594
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:39,400
Speaker 1: you know, it's like a you know, some kind of

595
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:41,920
Speaker 1: brownstone walk up, you know that you might see in

596
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:45,600
Speaker 1: you know, closer to the city, closer to New York,

597
00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:48,640
Speaker 1: you know, like over in Hackensack or something like that,

598
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:51,840
Speaker 1: where if you fire a gun, you know, multiple times

599
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:54,319
Speaker 1: like that, somebody is going to take note of it.

600
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:58,480
Speaker 1: But the fact that this man is found executed and

601
00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:00,880
Speaker 1: I'll go ahead and use that term, he's apparently executed

602
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:03,759
Speaker 1: on his front lawn, will draw the attention. Here here's

603
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:08,200
Speaker 1: another thing too, Dave, because you know, I've had cases

604
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:12,319
Speaker 1: in the past where I've had an individual that has

605
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:16,960
Speaker 1: killed their family set the house on fire and then

606
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:20,520
Speaker 1: gone out onto the lawn and taken their own life. Okay,

607
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:28,000
Speaker 1: and that does happen, And so I would imagine that firefighters.

608
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:31,320
Speaker 1: First off, if you happen to see a dead body

609
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:35,240
Speaker 1: at the scene and it's laying out in the yard,

610
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:41,879
Speaker 1: the first goal of a fire company is to get

611
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:44,480
Speaker 1: the fire put out. And I'm not saying they're going to,

612
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:51,560
Speaker 1: you know, disrespect the dead, but they're you know, somebody,

613
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:54,319
Speaker 1: a paramedic might roll up and check and see if

614
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:58,200
Speaker 1: this individual has a pulse. If they're dead, they're not

615
00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:00,440
Speaker 1: going to start processing the scene while you've got this

616
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:04,760
Speaker 1: raging inferno that's going on. And that's very important to understand.

617
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:08,600
Speaker 1: But I can tell you this, when they approached this

618
00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:14,759
Speaker 1: gentleman's body, they knew from the beginning that this was

619
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:20,160
Speaker 1: in fact not a self inflicted gunshot wound because there

620
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:26,600
Speaker 1: wasn't just one gunshot wound. There were multiple gunshot wounds

621
00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:35,279
Speaker 1: in atypical regions and no weapon to be found. This

622
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:40,279
Speaker 1: is episode one. Please join us for episode two. I'm

623
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:43,680
Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body by