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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grease.

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Speaker 2: Bonschell in the prosecution of Brian Coburger in the slaughters

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Speaker 2: of four Beautiful University Idaho students. In the last days

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Speaker 2: we learn, the defense for Brian Coburger has asserted that

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Speaker 2: male DNA belonging to at least three other males other

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Speaker 2: than Brian Coburger has been found at the crime sat repeat.

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Speaker 2: According to the defense, DNA belonging to some other guy

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Speaker 2: other than Coburger has been found at the murder scene.

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Speaker 2: Is this a torpedo to the state. I'm Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us

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Speaker 2: here at Foxination and series sixem one eleven. First of all,

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Speaker 2: take a listen to our friendsic km VT, a.

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Speaker 3: Lawyer for suspect Brian Colberger, filed a court dogment that

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Speaker 3: says no connection exists between Colberger and the four victims.

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Speaker 3: The defense argued investigators found DNA evidence of two other

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Speaker 3: men at the house where the victims died last November,

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Speaker 3: and Kolberger's lawyer argued the defense has been kept in

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Speaker 3: the dark about testing done on those samples and the

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Speaker 3: genetic genealogy method used to link Colberger to the murders.

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Speaker 3: Prosecutors have argued Colberger has no right to FBI data

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Speaker 3: collected from the method.

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Speaker 2: I have a really hard time believing the defense has

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Speaker 2: evidence being withheld from them about the DNA, because they're

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Speaker 2: the ones that have brought up the allegation that DNA

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Speaker 2: belonging to three other guys has been found at the scene.

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Speaker 2: Joining me an all star panel, But first I want

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Speaker 2: to go to Alexey Petrovitch, host for Live Now from

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Speaker 2: and you can find that at livenow Fox dot com. Alexia,

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Speaker 2: thank you so much for being with us. You've been

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Speaker 2: on the case from the very beginning. Now we just

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Speaker 2: heard the number two two other guys? Where is I

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Speaker 2: always called it the sad defense. Some other dude did it.

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Speaker 2: We're hearing now that DNA from three other guys, not two,

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Speaker 2: but three has been found at the scene. Is it

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Speaker 2: a torpedo to the state. I'm not so sure that

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Speaker 2: it is. But you tell me, Alexia, where's the DNA

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Speaker 2: coming from?

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Speaker 4: Well, Nancy, of course the DNA that the defense is

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Speaker 4: now bringing up. Anything that they can say that will

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Speaker 4: help their case is relevant at this point.

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Speaker 2: Oh girls, stop stop. Alexiya Petrovitch, you are so right.

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Speaker 2: You know, my husband always says, I'm like, why does

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Speaker 2: so and so do so and so, And he always says,

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Speaker 2: it's a right. On a sinking ship, they'll grab onto

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Speaker 2: anything just to try to live. So I'm so glad

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Speaker 2: you said that, But there's always this scary spectacle possibility

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Speaker 2: that maybe they're right. Okay, sorry, go ahead. I just

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Speaker 2: had to get the rat on the sinking ship thing

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Speaker 2: out there going.

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Speaker 4: Now, that's a great, great observation. And for them to

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Speaker 4: be able to show jurors at some point that there

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Speaker 4: were three other bits of DNA at the scene, two

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Speaker 4: inside of the home and another bit of DNA found

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Speaker 4: on a glove outside of the home days after the murder,

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Speaker 4: that could cast reasonable doubt forgers to think that maybe

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Speaker 4: there were other people that police didn't look enough into

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Speaker 4: outside of Brian Coberger. At this point, they continue to

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Speaker 4: say that there was no connection between him and the victims.

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Speaker 4: So you have to remember that the biggest piece of

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Speaker 4: evidence still remains the DNA on the knife sheet that

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Speaker 4: was not only found at the crime scene, but also

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Speaker 4: underneath the body of one of the victims, Matty Mogan.

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Speaker 4: And it was not only on the knife sheet case.

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Speaker 4: But it was also on the button of that knife sheet.

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Speaker 4: You think about it, whoever did this, whoever committed this crime.

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Speaker 4: Obviously prosecutor say it's coburger, touched the knife sheet, took

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Speaker 4: it off, touch that button piece on the nice sheaf

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Speaker 4: case and that was found directly under a victim at

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Speaker 4: the crime.

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Speaker 2: Then okay, I'm dissecting everything you just said because that

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Speaker 2: was a lot of information. First of all, there's so

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Speaker 2: many places to go from what you just said. But

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Speaker 2: first I want to clarify, not that you're wrong, you're right,

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Speaker 2: but I want you to clarify what you're talking about

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Speaker 2: to everybody that hasn't seen the knife sheet when you

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Speaker 2: say DNA was found on the button.

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Speaker 4: So a knife sheaf case is essentially a slip that

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Speaker 4: goes over it. So when you take it out of

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Speaker 4: the case, there's a button that holds it in place.

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Speaker 5: They had to pop.

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Speaker 2: Off that button. Give me like a snap, Yes, a snap?

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Speaker 2: So is it a snap hold on? Chris mcdunna joining me,

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Speaker 2: Director the Cold Case Foundation, former homicide detective, has investigated

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Speaker 2: over three hundred homicide host of the Interview Room on YouTube,

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Speaker 2: which is where I found him. Chris is it a

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Speaker 2: snap or a button. It's a snap, right.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a snap.

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Speaker 2: Okay, hold on, hold on, guys. I know you may

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Speaker 2: think it's crazy. I had never really observed that many

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Speaker 2: people walking around with a knife sheath on their waist

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Speaker 2: until my twins went to Scout camp. And of course,

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Speaker 2: when I heard Scout camp, I'm like, oh no, nobody's

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Speaker 2: going to Scout camp without me there to guard over them.

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Speaker 2: So I made my husband take the volunteer train and

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Speaker 2: go along with me, and we went as volunteers to

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Speaker 2: help every adult male and a lot of the young boys.

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Speaker 2: Lucy was there too, because girls can now get their

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Speaker 2: Eagle Scout as well. But they all had nice seats

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Speaker 2: on their belt, and I thought that was a little excessive,

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Speaker 2: but once we started all the classes, they were really

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Speaker 2: using them to cut things and make fires and just

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Speaker 2: all sorts of things. So the snap has got to

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Speaker 2: be something easy. It gives you easy access to the knife.

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Speaker 2: And there's usually everyone that I looked at because in

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Speaker 2: most of my knife murders, nobody had a sheath. There

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Speaker 2: are a lot of switchblade murders and kitchen knife murders

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Speaker 2: no sheath, but in every sheath that I saw there,

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Speaker 2: and since the coburger cases happen, I now of course

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Speaker 2: research them. There's a flap of leather or fake leather

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Speaker 2: that goes over the top of the knife and snaps

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Speaker 2: on the front side of that knife sheath. So in

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Speaker 2: order to access the knife, you have to grab it.

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Speaker 2: Like you're hearing Alexeiya Petrovitch described, you grab the nap

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Speaker 2: and pull it off, and then when you snap it back,

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Speaker 2: you touch it again. Do I have that right, Chris McDonough.

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Speaker 6: You absolutely do, Nancy, And typically it takes two hands

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Speaker 6: to do that because you have to hold the receiving

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Speaker 6: end and then push on the snap end. So this

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Speaker 6: DNA on that snap is you know, the elephant in

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Speaker 6: the living room for the defense team here. And that's

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Speaker 6: why we see the two declarations that were declared in

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Speaker 6: reference to the DNA collection processing and the lab processing.

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Speaker 6: Obviously one from the gal out of California, out of

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Speaker 6: Berkeley and then eventually out of Cornell and then the

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Speaker 6: other attorney out of Maryland. They're going to attack. They're

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Speaker 6: on the attack, you know.

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Speaker 2: Hold on. Alesiya Petrovitch joining us from Live Now at Fox,

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Speaker 2: Tara Mallick is with us, high profile lawyer out of

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Speaker 2: the Coburger jurisdiction which is Idaho and partner of Smith

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Speaker 2: and Malick law firm. Tur thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 2: You know what, I would always work late at the

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Speaker 2: District Attorney's office and there'd be nobody else there by

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Speaker 2: the time I finally left, and I typically didn't want

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Speaker 2: to hear any sound like vacuum cleaners or anything because

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Speaker 2: I've been trying to read something. And I will never

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Speaker 2: forget the whoosh of defense motions coming under my door.

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Speaker 2: I don't know how they got in the DA's office,

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Speaker 2: but that would happen a lot at night, and I'd

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Speaker 2: look at the motion. It would be a huge stack

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Speaker 2: of motions and they would many of them would be

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Speaker 2: pro forma like I'm challenging the defendant statement because he

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Speaker 2: didn't have the miranda. I mean, you get that in

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Speaker 2: every single case, but when you get to court and

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Speaker 2: the hearings begin, it's the issues that hurt them the

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Speaker 2: most that they scream the most about. And that is

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Speaker 2: why this DNA just like Alexi just told us that

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Speaker 2: this case may hinge to a large degree on the DNA.

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Speaker 2: That's why they're screaming about it so much because this

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Speaker 2: is the twisting of the knife, pardon the pun to them.

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Speaker 2: This is what's hurting Coburger, is this DNA. He can

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Speaker 2: explain away a lot of the other stuff, a lot

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Speaker 2: of it, but not the DNA. That's the hardest issue

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Speaker 2: for them. Would you agree, Tarah?

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Speaker 7: Absolutely?

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Speaker 8: I mean I think that you know, DNA evidence now

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Speaker 8: is generally relied upon. You know, the general public knows

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Speaker 8: what DNA evidence is. It is the strongest piece of

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Speaker 8: evidence I think against Coberghre, especially in the case, you know,

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Speaker 8: in a case like this where you don't have any

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Speaker 8: sort of admission from him or a partial admission from him.

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Speaker 8: So they're going to go after the strongest piece of evidence,

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Speaker 8: and they're going to try and poke whatever holes they can.

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Speaker 8: You know, how did you get the DNA evidence? Are

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Speaker 8: you sure it's the right person? How many people did

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Speaker 8: you check? You know, what's the methodology of doing it?

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Speaker 5: So I'm not.

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Speaker 8: Surprised that they're going after the DNA evidence first. Now,

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Speaker 8: whether or not they're going to be successful here big

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Speaker 8: question that remains to be seen. And just because there's

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Speaker 8: DNA evidence from you know, a couple other people in

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Speaker 8: that house doesn't necessarily think the state's case. You know,

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Speaker 8: what we understand from this house is that it was

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Speaker 8: kind of a party house, as a typical college house.

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Speaker 8: People were in and out all the time, so not surprising.

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Speaker 8: It's certainly an area that the prosecution will have to

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Speaker 8: ultimately explain if they get all the way to trial,

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Speaker 8: but something that the prosecution does need to keep their

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Speaker 8: eye on and really work hard to combat that defense strategy.

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Speaker 1: Time Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: I want to go back to Alexia Petrovitchose for Live

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Speaker 2: Now at Fox. Alexia, the reason I'm so interested in

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Speaker 2: where this other male DNA was found. Let me give

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Speaker 2: you an example I learned working with jury's Rather than,

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Speaker 2: for instance, read the black and white letter of the law,

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Speaker 2: it's easier to give an example for everybody. So, Alexia,

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Speaker 2: we've had painters in our house. Okay, so let's just

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Speaker 2: pretend my husband has found knife dead. Poor David. He's

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Speaker 2: been killed so many times in the bedroom, and of

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Speaker 2: course everybody thinks it's me because it's always the spouse

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Speaker 2: or the ex or some love relationship. But I can

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Speaker 2: prove that another unknown male DNA has been found in

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Speaker 2: the bedroom where he was stabbed dead. Sorry, David, but

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Speaker 2: as it turns out, where the DNA is, the painters

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Speaker 2: would have removed light switches to paint around the light switch.

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Speaker 2: What if the male DNA was back on the light switch.

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Speaker 2: So yes, DNA is found at the crime scene, but

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Speaker 2: on the light switch, So who cares? Do we know

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Speaker 2: where the DNA was found? I know on one glove

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Speaker 2: found outside, which may have been the glove you identify

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Speaker 2: Chris McDonough. But where what about the other two DNA samples? Alexia?

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Speaker 4: All that we've heard so far is that two pieces

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Speaker 4: of DNA were found inside of the house near the

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Speaker 4: crime scene. The only other detail outside of that is

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Speaker 4: that there was a third piece of DNA found outside

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Speaker 4: of the house a few days after the murders, and

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Speaker 4: that it was found on a glove. But the defense

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Speaker 4: continues to say, why was this never brought up? You

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Speaker 4: focused your search on Coberger right from the beginning. You

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Speaker 4: were set up on him as your prime suspect in this.

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Speaker 4: But did you interview these other people? Because this is

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Speaker 4: obviously very relevant.

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Speaker 7: To the key.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so how are we going to combat that? Joining me,

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Speaker 2: Doctor Michelle Dupre, forensic pathologist, medical examiner, former detective, and

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Speaker 2: literally she wrote the book Homicide Investigation Field Guide. Doctor

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Speaker 2: Michelle Dupre, How is the steak going to handle this?

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Speaker 2: You've dealt with so many DNA cases.

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Speaker 7: Well, I think that this is really, you know, as

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Speaker 7: we've all sort of said, it's a red herring. This

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Speaker 7: is it's not unusual to find other DNA in the

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Speaker 7: same residence. It's going to be critical where that DNA

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Speaker 7: was found. And I think that they're going to really

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Speaker 7: play up the information that Coburger's DNA was found not

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Speaker 7: just at the crime scene, but where the victim was.

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Speaker 7: That's what's important. If this other DNA is found outside

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Speaker 7: on a glove or downstairs in the kitchen, or wherever

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Speaker 7: it may have been, that's going to be very important.

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Speaker 7: The location will be very important.

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Speaker 2: Location, location, location, Chris mcdonok, you've investigated over three hundred

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Speaker 2: homicide jump.

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Speaker 6: In so Nancy, I think the interesting thing here is

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Speaker 6: if they follow the investigative protocol of asking why versus

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Speaker 6: you know, how, then what we're going to see is

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Speaker 6: the question always arises, why is Coburg's DNA on that

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Speaker 6: snap in that bedroom? Now the glove outside that was

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Speaker 6: from Thanksgiving Day. I was up there, you know, looking

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Speaker 6: at the crime scene. I observed this glove outside behind

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Speaker 6: the tape. I notified an officer that was there. They

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Speaker 6: came over and eventually collected it. So the other piece

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Speaker 6: of this is the video from the body camera of

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Speaker 6: the calls of loud party at that house. So when

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Speaker 6: the officers get there, we see Mattie, she comes out,

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Speaker 6: you know, makes contact with the police, and you can

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Speaker 6: see another male and unknown mail with her. So I think,

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Speaker 6: you know, to doctor Duprees's point there, it is a

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Speaker 6: red herring because there's going to be a lot of

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Speaker 6: male DNA in that house, and we have two videos

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Speaker 6: to prove it from the body camera.

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Speaker 2: You're so right, So doctor Bethany Marshall, I'll see this

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Speaker 2: as a double side, two sided coin. Doctor Bethany Marshall

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Speaker 2: is joining us renow psychoanalyst joining us out of Beverly

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Speaker 2: Heels at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com, Doctor Bethany number

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Speaker 2: one at matt Location location location is the other male

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Speaker 2: DNA found on the kitchen island. Is it found on

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Speaker 2: the front door knob. Is it found in one of

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Speaker 2: the bedrooms where the victims are killed. That as you

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Speaker 2: get closer to the scene, to the bodies, it matters more.

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Speaker 2: It becomes more critical. We don't know that much less

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Speaker 2: on a glove outside. I'm not even concerned with an

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Speaker 2: outside glove. When I was there at the scene, I

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Speaker 2: saw a frosty mitten outside, and you know what did

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Speaker 2: that mean? Probably nothing, So that matters a lot. So

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Speaker 2: also we've gotten the fact that the state's going to

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Speaker 2: have to argue it was a party house, and thereby

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Speaker 2: the defenses could and they usually do, make out the

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Speaker 2: girls to be party girls, which has no barrier on

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Speaker 2: this case at all.

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Speaker 5: Nancy, you were so right.

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Speaker 7: My first thought about this.

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Speaker 5: I'm not a crime scene investigator or a homicide detective.

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Speaker 7: I am a.

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Speaker 5: Psychoanalyst, social psychologist, and my first thought was, this is

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Speaker 5: an attempt to discredit these girls. They're going to say

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Speaker 5: that the DNA was semen that was found on the

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Speaker 5: bed or somewhere in the bedroom, and what that's going

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Speaker 5: to do, in the mind of the defense attorneys is

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Speaker 5: discredit the girls, make them seem You said party girls,

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Speaker 5: but I'm gonna say promiscuous, like lots of men were

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Speaker 5: coming in and out. Maybe girls who are in pair, drinking,

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Speaker 5: using drugs. You know, whatever they can do to discredit

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Speaker 5: and humiliate the victim that you know, this is the

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Speaker 5: the seed has such a strong case against Brian Coberger,

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Speaker 5: and there's so much antagonistic set that towards him. You know,

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Speaker 5: I think this could backfire on the defense attorneys if

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Speaker 5: they try to discredit the victims. But what it is

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Speaker 5: going to do for the families, Nancy, is it's going

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Speaker 5: to be painful to hear their daughters being painted as

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Speaker 5: promiscuous as semen in the bed, as all these different

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Speaker 5: men's DNA around the house. You know, it's just it's

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Speaker 5: just it's painful, and it really you know, it's like

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Speaker 5: opening up a health record after a victim is gone,

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Speaker 5: after a victim has died. There's allll kinds of things

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Speaker 5: in there the victim would not have wanted their family

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Speaker 5: or the public to know. So it kind of drags

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Speaker 5: the victims through the mud as well. So too, to

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Speaker 5: maybe the scientists on this panel, it's you know, it's

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Speaker 5: a piece of scientific evidence. To me, it is a

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Speaker 5: story that drags the victims through the mud again and

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Speaker 5: again and again at the family's expense.

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Speaker 2: Guys Not only is there a claim that other male

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Speaker 2: DNA was found at the scene, it may very well

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Speaker 2: be true. The defense is also climbing there is no

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Speaker 2: connection between Coburger and the victims in this case. Take

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Speaker 2: a listen to Aaron McLaughlin at NBC.

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Speaker 9: Coburger's lawyers argue for the release of materials they say

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Speaker 9: they need to defend the suspected killer. Coburger's lawyer also

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Speaker 9: went even further in the court filing, saying, quote, there

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Speaker 9: is no connection between mister Coburger and the victims.

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Speaker 2: There is no.

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Speaker 9: Explanation for the total lack of DNA evidence from the

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Speaker 9: victims in mister Coberger's apartment, home, office, or vehicle.

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Speaker 2: Okay, we're gonna have to deal with that as well.

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Speaker 2: That was an oj Simpson defense as well, that Simpson,

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Speaker 2: if he had been actually guilty, would have been covered

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Speaker 2: in blood. Well, just let me point out that the

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Speaker 2: victim's blood was found on his socks in his bedroom

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Speaker 2: at home, both victims. So how was the blood from

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Speaker 2: both victims on his socks in his bedroom in his home?

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Speaker 2: How that happened? But the defense argued, and they argued

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Speaker 2: it really well, that he should have been covered head

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Speaker 2: to toe with blood. And that's what's going to be

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Speaker 2: argued here. Okay, back to you, Chris McDonough, how is

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Speaker 2: this going to go down that as of right now,

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Speaker 2: we don't I don't know of any of the victims

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Speaker 2: DNA blood or anything else found in his car or apartment.

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Speaker 6: Well, right now, as we know, Nancy, that the prosecution

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Speaker 6: has obviously turned over everything to them. It sounds like

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Speaker 6: because they are, you know, on the offense here. However,

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Speaker 6: they also have to deal with the cellular footprint that

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Speaker 6: ties him to that residence multiple times, twelve times, I believe,

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Speaker 6: as you recall it. And so you know, the fact

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Speaker 6: that there isn't necessarily blood that we know.

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Speaker 2: Of, say that again about the evidence found it the

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Speaker 2: same and say it really slowly. I don't want that

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Speaker 2: to get lost in the sauce.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, So that they also have a motion to go

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Speaker 6: after the cast team, the FBI agent who collected all

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Speaker 6: the cellular data, which is going to be another huge

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Speaker 6: footprint for him to overcome. And so the fact that

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Speaker 6: there isn't necessarily any transferred blood from the crime scene

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Speaker 6: into a vehicle we have to take into account. He

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Speaker 6: also cleaned that vehicle exceptionally well while he was under surveillance.

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Speaker 6: So they have that testimony of the officers or whoever

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Speaker 6: that surveillance team was to say, yeah, I saw him

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Speaker 6: cleaning that vehicle. So again we go back to that

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Speaker 6: question not to how, but why was he cleaning that vehicle,

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Speaker 6: which is going to be an interesting testimony to hear

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Speaker 6: as the case goes on.

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Speaker 2: You know what I think, Terah Mallik, that it can

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Speaker 2: hurt the state's case. There's no DNA from the victims

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Speaker 2: in his car or his apartment, if that is in

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Speaker 2: fact true.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, I think certainly in the lack of DANNY evidence

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Speaker 8: there weakens the state's case a little bit. You know again,

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Speaker 8: I think that there are ways the state can deal

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Speaker 8: with that. In this case. The timeline, you know, it

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Speaker 8: wasn't that Coburger was arrested right away. Coburger was across

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Speaker 8: the country when he was arrested somewhere else. He certainly

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Speaker 8: had enough time to clean out his car if there

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Speaker 8: was any sort of DNA evidence in there.

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Speaker 5: So the state can.

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Speaker 8: Go and point out things like that to say, yeah,

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Speaker 8: there's no no DNA evidence, for instance, in this car

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Speaker 8: or his apartment. But you know, look at this long delay.

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Speaker 2: You're right, you got this huge long delay. But I

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Speaker 2: also want you to hear our cut five one three

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Speaker 2: from NBAC.

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Speaker 9: A key part of the case Coburger's DNA. While prosecutors

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Speaker 9: say his DNA was at the scene of the murders,

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Speaker 9: Coburger's lawyers argue investigators did not find any victim DNA

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Speaker 9: in his apartment, office, home, or vehicle.

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Speaker 10: There's multiple ways to explain the lack of DNA in

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Speaker 10: his vehicle, in his apartment. There's not a lot of

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Speaker 10: ways to explain his DNA on the sheath of the

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Speaker 10: murder weapon.

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Speaker 9: At the moment, the trial is said to begin October second.

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Speaker 9: Given that this is now a death penalty case, legal

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Speaker 9: experts expect it to be delayed.

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Speaker 2: To you, Chris McDonough joining US former homicide detective, do

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Speaker 2: you agree with Steve Kramer that you just heard his voice?

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Speaker 2: With a former FBI lawyer, There's a lot of ways

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Speaker 2: to explain lack of victim DNA in his car or home.

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Speaker 2: There's not a lot of ways to explain his DNA

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Speaker 2: not just at the scene of the crime, but in

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Speaker 2: the bed with one of the crime victims. Matty Mogan

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Speaker 2: and think about it, Chris McDonough, not only had time

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Speaker 2: passed before the apartment of the car were searched, a

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Speaker 2: lot of time. By the way, he's a criminal procedure specialist.

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Speaker 2: He's getting his PhD in that, don't you know? He

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Speaker 2: basically hermetically sealed himself to go and commit this crime.

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Speaker 2: He have all people would know how to get rid

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Speaker 2: of evidence and as far as the DNA from other

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Speaker 2: males at the crime scene, depending on where it was,

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Speaker 2: they may have been people that were there a lot

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Speaker 2: for parties or friends or studying, who knows what. But Coburger,

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Speaker 2: to our knowledge, had never been there. So why is

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Speaker 2: his DNA there here? You attack whichever prong of that

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Speaker 2: you want, but jump in man, Well.

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Speaker 6: Absolutely, Nancy, I mean how many cases have you had,

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Speaker 6: you know where you you if you had this evidence?

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Speaker 6: I could only imagine how you would argue this in

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Speaker 6: front of the jury, because he's got to be in

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Speaker 6: a place thinking, and the defense knows it. They're they're

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Speaker 6: on the they're on the you know, attack here to

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Speaker 6: to somehow you know, paint this big picture of well,

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Speaker 6: there's nothing else you know, connecting him to that crime scene.

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Speaker 4: A I E.

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Speaker 6: Away from the crime scene. You know, his apartment, his car,

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Speaker 6: et cetera. What there is this huge you know, fifty

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Speaker 6: two point whatever it is octillion, you know this is

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Speaker 6: the guy got to go to another planet and find

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Speaker 6: him under one of these victims. So you know this

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Speaker 6: is this is just you know, they're doing their job,

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Speaker 6: The defense is doing their job. But I think it's

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Speaker 6: going to be a very high bar to overcome because

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Speaker 6: of the other evidence that's going to come supporting Well.

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Speaker 2: I've thought about this, and I hate to get give

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Speaker 2: the defense and the ideas, but it could have been

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Speaker 2: argue that he bought the knife at one of those

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Speaker 2: knife and gun shows, you know, where thousands of people

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Speaker 2: trooped through to either look at stuff, they don't have

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Speaker 2: to buy anything. What if they had touched this evidence

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Speaker 2: and then the knife was stolen. How do we even

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Speaker 2: know it was Coburger's knife? So what if Coburger can

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Speaker 2: argue I went to this knife and gun show, I

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Speaker 2: looked at a lot of knives and a lot of guns.

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Speaker 2: I didn't buy anything. That's where the knife came from.

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Speaker 2: The pert bought the knife after I touched it. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I know it's a stretch, but all you need is

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Speaker 2: one gerrr to hang the whole hang up the whole verdict.

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Speaker 6: Mag Donna, Well, you know, and the odds on that.

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Speaker 6: I'd like to see the odds on that, you know,

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Speaker 6: play out. But you are right, he could argue that.

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Speaker 6: But again it's a very difficult argument because now you

435
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,040
Speaker 6: have to say that the universe is on schedule and

436
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:30,520
Speaker 6: it somehow went from that knife show to underneath that

437
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:34,120
Speaker 6: poor victim, and Brian just happened to be the guy

438
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:37,159
Speaker 6: you know in the neighborhood twelve separate times through a

439
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:40,080
Speaker 6: cell phone, you know technology.

440
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:43,199
Speaker 2: Including the night of the murders, and had had to

441
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:46,800
Speaker 2: try contact with some of the victims before that and

442
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:49,560
Speaker 2: never heard back from them. I mean, just there's just

443
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:53,199
Speaker 2: so much. It's all circumstantial. Though this DNA is the

444
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:57,760
Speaker 2: strongest thing they've got. And now hold on, I think

445
00:26:57,800 --> 00:26:59,439
Speaker 2: I heard doctor Bethany trying to jump in.

446
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:03,360
Speaker 5: Bethany, Well, I worry about jurors getting confused just hearing

447
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:06,320
Speaker 5: one thing that they latch onto, and I think that's

448
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:09,040
Speaker 5: what the defense is hoping for. You know, this is

449
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:13,719
Speaker 5: a very sophisticated discussion we're all having, but we are

450
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 5: all human beings. Where one thing stands out and we

451
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:19,879
Speaker 5: think about that one thing again and again. So there's

452
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:22,880
Speaker 5: no DNA in the car or his home. There's no

453
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:26,000
Speaker 5: DNA in the car or his home. That gets repeated

454
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:31,119
Speaker 5: enough times. It's like what the public remembers about the

455
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 5: menentous case the father molested them, the father molested them

456
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:39,240
Speaker 5: or O. J. Simpson if it's is you must have quit.

457
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:44,720
Speaker 5: You know, there are these one sentences that become almost hypnotic,

458
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:49,360
Speaker 5: mesmerizing if they get drummed into the brain of the

459
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 5: public and of the jurors. And so that's how I

460
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:56,240
Speaker 5: think about this, that all this the scientific evidence is

461
00:27:56,359 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 5: one thing, but beliefs that can get inculcated in the

462
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:04,080
Speaker 5: jurors or another, and that that may be what the

463
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:05,280
Speaker 5: defense is hoping for.

464
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:09,800
Speaker 2: Back to Alexia Petrovich, host from Live Now at Fox,

465
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:13,360
Speaker 2: I was throwing out the knife and Gun show as

466
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 2: an example of some sort of argument the defense can make.

467
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:23,639
Speaker 2: But we know that Brian Koberger bought akbar knife from

468
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:29,320
Speaker 2: Amazon months before the stabbing of the Idaho students. Now

469
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:32,880
Speaker 2: can we match the sheath up to the one he

470
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 2: bought on Amazon? Very likely? Alexia Petrovic, can you talk

471
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:45,080
Speaker 2: about the kbar knife and knife sheath he bought from

472
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 2: Amazon seven months before the stabbings.

473
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 4: Well and Nancy, I think that's a huge point that

474
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:54,040
Speaker 4: they're going to continue to bring up there. And also

475
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 4: the fact that, as was mentioned earlier, the DNA was

476
00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:00,560
Speaker 4: five point three seven of tillion times more more likely

477
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:04,080
Speaker 4: to be coburgers on that night sheet than any other

478
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:07,880
Speaker 4: random person from the general population. The defense can say

479
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 4: there was no evidence at his apartment, there was no

480
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:12,600
Speaker 4: evidence in his car, but it doesn't take away from

481
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:15,280
Speaker 4: the fact that it was at the crime scene and

482
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:18,920
Speaker 4: in a place that was very difficult to discover under

483
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:22,200
Speaker 4: one of the victim's bodies. The attorneys, though at this point,

484
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:25,720
Speaker 4: are doing anything they can to try to cast doubt here.

485
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 4: They're talking about they don't understand how investigators have been

486
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 4: able to identify the suspect's car. But there were other

487
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 4: pieces of evidence even outside of the DNA too. There

488
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:39,040
Speaker 4: was that cell phone data, There was surveillance video. There

489
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:42,520
Speaker 4: was neighbor video that began circulating as well, where you

490
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:45,200
Speaker 4: could hear some it was very difficult to listen to,

491
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 4: but voices very distantly in the background from the evening

492
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 4: that this happened, or the early morning that this happened.

493
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:55,000
Speaker 4: So there are other pieces, but the DNA is definitely

494
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 4: the most compelling.

495
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 7: You're right, Nancy, jump in, Nancy, this is stock. This

496
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:02,360
Speaker 7: is very to me. It's very analogous to the Alex

497
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:06,720
Speaker 7: Murdoch case. There was a defense answer for everything. But

498
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:09,440
Speaker 7: in law enforcement we have the saying that we look

499
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:13,600
Speaker 7: at the totality of circumstances, and when we look at everything,

500
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 7: the electronic data, the DNA, he bought the k Bar

501
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:21,920
Speaker 7: knife akbar knife earlier. When we put everything together, I'm

502
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 7: hoping that it's going to be very much like the

503
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 7: murder case, that the jury is going to be able

504
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 7: to see that, yes, it's circumstantial, but this is just

505
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:32,320
Speaker 7: way too many coincidences.

506
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:39,240
Speaker 2: The model k bar sounds familiar to many legal eagles

507
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 2: following this case. It was a specific k bar sheath

508
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:49,480
Speaker 2: left behind at the scene that contained Coburger's DNA on it,

509
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:55,520
Speaker 2: and we now know that law enforcement has obtained a

510
00:30:55,680 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 2: record of Coburger purchasing the most crucial piece of evidence

511
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:07,560
Speaker 2: so far, a Kbar knife and sheath from Amazon. Now,

512
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:14,960
Speaker 2: how likely is it that another exact sheath was found

513
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 2: at the scene other than the one he purchased. But

514
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:26,760
Speaker 2: are we now facing the horrible possibility that we are

515
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:31,719
Speaker 2: losing any other DNA evidence. Take a listen to our

516
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 2: cut five, one, eight our friends at crimeonline dot com.

517
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 11: The home where four University of Idaho students were murdered

518
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 11: has cleaning crews again on site. On Tuesday this week,

519
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:44,120
Speaker 11: a large truck was seen at the three story home.

520
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:46,680
Speaker 11: The home now belongs to the University of Idaho. It

521
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:49,280
Speaker 11: was gifted to the university by the owner. It is

522
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:52,280
Speaker 11: slated to be demolished sometime this summer. The cleaning company

523
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:54,960
Speaker 11: is removing all the items inside the home to return

524
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:58,080
Speaker 11: to the victims' family members ahead of a demolition. No

525
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 11: timetable has been said yet, but the process may take

526
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:01,719
Speaker 11: several weeks.

527
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:19,320
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace to you, Chris McDonald.

528
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:22,720
Speaker 2: You have processed a lot of crime scenes, as have you,

529
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:27,200
Speaker 2: Doctor d Pray. What if anything, does this mean professional

530
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:31,360
Speaker 2: cleaners back at the scene. If there was any DNA

531
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:33,440
Speaker 2: that hasn't been found already, it's gone.

532
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:36,200
Speaker 6: Yeah, you know, you know, Nancy, I think that is

533
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 6: a mistake, just my personal opinion that that's this is

534
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:43,880
Speaker 6: such a high profile case, and you can already see

535
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:46,440
Speaker 6: the motions you know, going here.

536
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:47,760
Speaker 7: I think it.

537
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 6: Would be wise for the prosecution just to hold this

538
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 6: scene because they're in there cleaning any biohazard, you know,

539
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 6: such as blood or you know, any other fluids to

540
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 6: your point that could potentially uh, if they had missed it,

541
00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 6: there could be something more in there. But more importantly,

542
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:09,520
Speaker 6: I think you made the point a while ago about

543
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 6: having the jury come down and look at that, because

544
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:15,160
Speaker 6: you look how powerful it was in the Ernock case.

545
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:18,640
Speaker 6: From what doctor Dupre just said, I think this is

546
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:20,800
Speaker 6: going to be as powerful, and to tear it down,

547
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 6: in my opinion, I think is a mistake.

548
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:26,400
Speaker 7: I agree, I agree, but I think that it's probably

549
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:29,680
Speaker 7: already contaminated. That's why the defense would argue.

550
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 2: Well contaminated, Yes, But what about the possibility of a

551
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:34,719
Speaker 2: jury visiting the crime scene?

552
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:37,040
Speaker 7: Absolutely, I think that would be priceless.

553
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:38,960
Speaker 2: I think for the state. I think it would benefit

554
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:42,600
Speaker 2: the state. Guys. Not only that we're learning of another

555
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:46,400
Speaker 2: attack by the defense on the DNA evidence. Take a

556
00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 2: listen to our cup five zero six our friends at today.

557
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:53,760
Speaker 9: In new court documents, Coberger's attorney accusing the State of

558
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:57,560
Speaker 9: hiding its entire case by seeking to protect information about

559
00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:01,480
Speaker 9: the genetic genealogy investigation you say led them to Coburger.

560
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:04,160
Speaker 10: The state here is using a relatively new kind of

561
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:07,440
Speaker 10: DNA technology. So this is exactly the kind of thing

562
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:10,640
Speaker 10: the defense will argue that they need because if this

563
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:13,919
Speaker 10: is emerging technology, they need all the facts they can

564
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:15,200
Speaker 10: if they're going to challenge.

565
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:22,799
Speaker 2: Okay, straight back out to Alexia Petrovich. Alexia, describe the

566
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:28,960
Speaker 2: defense motion, Well, give me details regarding their claim that

567
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:36,439
Speaker 2: the state is improperly shielding genealogical family tree members from

568
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:43,680
Speaker 2: their purview. Also, I'm very, very curious that the defense

569
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:48,200
Speaker 2: is also attacking the actual DNA technology that was used,

570
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:51,960
Speaker 2: because I don't think it's that new. It's been used

571
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:54,680
Speaker 2: in many, many other cases. But let's first start with

572
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:59,880
Speaker 2: protecting the genealogical members of Coburger's family tree. Explain what

573
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 2: what's happening.

574
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 4: So initially the DNA that they had gathered was from

575
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:09,520
Speaker 4: his family home and expected it to Coburger's father in this.

576
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:12,640
Speaker 4: But then most recently we learned that police had used

577
00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:17,160
Speaker 4: some of this relatively new and of full genetic genealogy,

578
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 4: and the FBI also looked into it and were able

579
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:26,200
Speaker 4: to determine that it was a statistical match to Coburger from.

580
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:26,840
Speaker 2: A cheek swap.

581
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:29,759
Speaker 4: So now the defense is saying, well, you can't do

582
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:32,280
Speaker 4: that legally, you're not allowed to do that. You're withholding

583
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:34,839
Speaker 4: a lot of evidence in addition to that, and they

584
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:37,560
Speaker 4: keep going back to this point of we don't know

585
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:41,120
Speaker 4: why they initially focused this investigation on Coborger because of

586
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:44,440
Speaker 4: their claims that they didn't have evidence that was tied

587
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:47,719
Speaker 4: to the nicktims at Coburger's home, or in his car,

588
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:51,239
Speaker 4: or in his office. So they're continuing to argue that

589
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:56,000
Speaker 4: they shouldn't even be allowed to use these websites that

590
00:35:56,200 --> 00:36:00,879
Speaker 4: can connect Coburger in his DNA to these and then

591
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 4: going back even further to their initial argument of you

592
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:08,359
Speaker 4: don't even have information to explain to us of why

593
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:11,280
Speaker 4: Coburg was your prime suspect when you didn't look into

594
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:12,400
Speaker 4: other people.

595
00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:15,040
Speaker 2: So this is a two pronged attack that we're talking

596
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:17,799
Speaker 2: about right now. In the Coburger DNA. First of all,

597
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:20,680
Speaker 2: they're going to claim, well, somebody else's DNA has been

598
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 2: found on the scene, so you can't really say the

599
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:27,759
Speaker 2: killer's Coburger. That's the first attack, then they're going to

600
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:31,680
Speaker 2: say you didn't investigate the other males whose DNA was

601
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 2: found around the house, for one on a glove outside

602
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:40,040
Speaker 2: the house, which we think may have been like an

603
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:44,400
Speaker 2: outdoor mitten. Those are two attacks on the DNA. The

604
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:47,120
Speaker 2: third attack on the DNA is that the state is

605
00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 2: withholding members of Coburger's distant family tree that were used

606
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:58,160
Speaker 2: in the genetic genealogy match to Coburger. The fourth argument

607
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:02,799
Speaker 2: is that emerging technol was used. That has not been accepted.

608
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:06,120
Speaker 2: That same argument was used for DNA to start with.

609
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:11,200
Speaker 2: It was used for fingerprints, it was used for tire casts,

610
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:14,680
Speaker 2: it was used for voice identification. Hey, that's too new,

611
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:17,600
Speaker 2: we can't do that. Well, that's all BS. You can

612
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:24,280
Speaker 2: use it. And the particular DNA technology that was used,

613
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:28,880
Speaker 2: in my mind, is not that new. It's been used

614
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 2: many many times before. It's called S t R st

615
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:39,919
Speaker 2: R analysis, and it's been used over and over. As

616
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:44,879
Speaker 2: far as the genetic genealogy argument, that's been used over

617
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:49,080
Speaker 2: and over and has been upheld by appellate courts, let

618
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:52,520
Speaker 2: me point out the Golden State killer Joseph DiAngelo, that

619
00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:55,839
Speaker 2: was one of the first times genetic genealogy had been

620
00:37:55,960 --> 00:38:01,759
Speaker 2: used to identify the defendant. The reaction is, I'm not

621
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 2: quite sure how to say this. Let me go to

622
00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:11,880
Speaker 2: Tara Mallick that this is Coburger's DNA. So regardless of

623
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:19,000
Speaker 2: the specific type of test used to identify it, it's

624
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:23,200
Speaker 2: his DNA one way or the other. Whether it was

625
00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:27,680
Speaker 2: a direct let's just say, mitochondrial match through his mother

626
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:31,960
Speaker 2: that's accepted in court, or a direct match regarding his father,

627
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:35,640
Speaker 2: which we know there was, whether they use genetic genealogy

628
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:38,640
Speaker 2: or not, it's his DNA. They're not going to win

629
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:39,680
Speaker 2: on this, Tara.

630
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:40,440
Speaker 6: No, they're not.

631
00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:45,120
Speaker 8: And I like to call this the armwavy defense strategy.

632
00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:47,680
Speaker 8: It's like if I wave my arms hard enough and

633
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:50,360
Speaker 8: jump up and down, then maybe everyone will be distracted

634
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:53,960
Speaker 8: and think about something else. And it is his DNA

635
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:56,239
Speaker 8: at the end of the day, Nancy or exactly right.

636
00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:59,839
Speaker 8: So they can sit there and, you know, throw all

637
00:38:59,880 --> 00:39:04,120
Speaker 8: these questions out about this new technology and how was

638
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:07,480
Speaker 8: it that they actually got this information. But it doesn't

639
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:10,880
Speaker 8: change the outcome. The outcome remains the same, And I

640
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:14,879
Speaker 8: think the prosecution's job in this type of scenario is

641
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:18,719
Speaker 8: to refocus the jury because the danger is that the

642
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:22,239
Speaker 8: jury is going to focus on one of those you know,

643
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:25,080
Speaker 8: kind of feed bumps of the defense is thrown out

644
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:28,520
Speaker 8: and say, hmm, maybe that does cause me, you know,

645
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:31,960
Speaker 8: to think that there's reasonable doubt here. And so even

646
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:34,560
Speaker 8: though I think that it's a red herring, I think

647
00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:37,080
Speaker 8: you're exactly right. I think that you know, the DNA

648
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:40,080
Speaker 8: is the DNA. It's his, no one else's, it's his.

649
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:45,400
Speaker 8: The the you know, the real risk here is, like

650
00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 8: was mentioned before, confusing the jury to the point and

651
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:51,880
Speaker 8: making them hesitate because the state has a really high burden.

652
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:54,520
Speaker 8: It's got to prove this case beyond a reasonable doubt,

653
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:57,440
Speaker 8: which is not all doubt. But you know, if the

654
00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:00,719
Speaker 8: defense can create reasonable doubts, they yeah.

655
00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 2: And I think that's kind of what happened in the

656
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:05,600
Speaker 2: top Mom Casey Anthony case. I think the jury got

657
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:09,359
Speaker 2: mired down in the air sample evidence and some of

658
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:13,759
Speaker 2: the medical examiner evidence because it was just very confusing

659
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:16,839
Speaker 2: when it could have been stated in very simple terms.

660
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:20,480
Speaker 2: But I want to remind everyone of a DNA issue

661
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:24,160
Speaker 2: in this case. The defense is now claiming that the

662
00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:29,520
Speaker 2: genetic genealogy info has been hidden from them, but there

663
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:34,440
Speaker 2: were two DNA tests in this case. Remember when Coburger

664
00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:39,239
Speaker 2: was followed to his parents' home for Thanksgiving break and

665
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:44,399
Speaker 2: the state waited and cops got abandoned trash and they

666
00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:48,200
Speaker 2: got a DNA sample from his father and they matched

667
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:51,400
Speaker 2: that to the DNA on the knife sheath found under

668
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:56,080
Speaker 2: a murder victim, and that DNA showed that the only

669
00:40:56,400 --> 00:41:02,120
Speaker 2: possible donor of the knife sheath the DNA had to

670
00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:08,200
Speaker 2: be the biological son of Coburger's father. Coburger's father only

671
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:12,879
Speaker 2: has one bio son, and that's Brian Coburger. After they

672
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:17,720
Speaker 2: got that match, they went back and did the SDR

673
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:22,600
Speaker 2: DNA test. They backtracked and then did genetic genealogy with

674
00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:26,040
Speaker 2: a family tree, and that is how they came up

675
00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:32,160
Speaker 2: with the one N five point three seven Octillian match.

676
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:39,440
Speaker 2: So there's two DNA matches to Coburger. There's so much

677
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:43,560
Speaker 2: else happening in the Coburger case, but we'll save that

678
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:46,560
Speaker 2: for another day. Goodbye friend,