Speaker 1: This is Gavin Newsom and this is Charlie Kirk. By
Speaker 1: the way, what brings you to California? Your favorite state?
Speaker 2: It is this thing's falling. It is my favorite state
Speaker 2: in the Union. You're doing such a great job here.
Speaker 2: By the way, No, I'm honored to be on the show.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 1: And you were just down at USC.
Speaker 2: I was at USC yesterday, drew a big crowd. By
Speaker 2: the way.
Speaker 1: I knew you were at USC early because my niece,
Speaker 1: who's gradually.
Speaker 2: She was going with the Maga hat on.
Speaker 1: She was by the way, I do have to watch,
Speaker 1: but she was down there and she was like, she said,
Speaker 1: you never know, these kids are going to the right.
Speaker 1: I'm aware, she said, this crowd's crazy. He said. She
Speaker 1: said she had and the only reason said she would
Speaker 1: have said it perhaps otherwise, but she knew you were
Speaker 1: coming on the worst part though, Charlie no bes true story.
Speaker 1: Literally last night, trying to put my son to bed,
Speaker 1: He's like, no, Dad, I just what time? What time
Speaker 1: is Charlie going to be here? What time? And I'm like, dude,
Speaker 1: you're in school. Tomorrow's thirteen. He's like, no, no, no, this
Speaker 1: this morning wakes up it sixs up. Then he's like,
Speaker 1: I'm coming. I'm like, he literally would not leave the house.
Speaker 2: Did you let him to take off school?
Speaker 1: No? He did, of course not. He's not here for
Speaker 1: a good reason. But the point is the.
Speaker 2: Canceled school for like two years on.
Speaker 1: The point is the point, which is you are making
Speaker 1: a damn dead Thanks.
Speaker 2: I'm kidding, no, but I know, and I but.
Speaker 1: I appreciate that. I mean, it's the reason you're here
Speaker 1: because I think people need to understand your success, your influence,
Speaker 1: what you've been up to, and the fact that you're
Speaker 1: on these college campus stores. And to your point, then
Speaker 1: you just open up. I mean you're like, ask me.
Speaker 2: Anything anything, Challenge me, challenge me whatever.
Speaker 1: When did this whole thing? When did you start putting
Speaker 1: us together?
Speaker 2: I've been at this for thirteen years and it's been
Speaker 2: a wild movement, really accelerated once President Trump kind of
Speaker 2: came on the scene, right around i'd say twenty twenty one.
Speaker 2: We had a goal, could we move the youth vote
Speaker 2: ten points over ten years? And when it was.
Speaker 1: It literally you sat down and put that new miracle.
Speaker 2: Together, like, can we move at ten points over ten
Speaker 2: years ish? You know, approximate? Because our whole hypothesis was,
Speaker 2: and we you know, we did this alongside President Trump
Speaker 2: and his great team, was that this demographic is disproportionately
Speaker 2: to the Democrat side. We believe Democrats were taking them
Speaker 2: for granted. We think that your side had no message
Speaker 2: whatsoever and an ideological monopoly. We saw some of the
Speaker 2: fault lines there, and to President Trump's credit, he also
Speaker 2: harmonized with the strategy by going on podcasting and using TikTok.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean, we did it in four years,
Speaker 2: not ten, large in part thanks to you guys.
Speaker 1: And we'll go get to that, and I sincerely get
Speaker 1: to that because I want, you know, I want to
Speaker 1: stress test as some of those fault lines as relates
Speaker 1: to the reality of our party and where we are today. Yeah, Visa,
Speaker 1: you you're ascendency, not just individually as an organization, But
Speaker 1: where was that sort of moment for you? Because it's interesting.
Speaker 1: I mean, you're such a young guy. So it's not
Speaker 1: a deep biography here. It's not like twenty years in
Speaker 1: the wilderness writing his first book, getting a TV show
Speaker 1: that was canceled, coming back. It's more just this immediacy
Speaker 1: of ascendancy, was it. I mean, were you always you're
Speaker 1: sort of born and bred with an ideological mindset. Are
Speaker 1: you more open minded? And you start to realize a
Speaker 1: lot of bsos out there.
Speaker 2: I've always been conservative, obviously grown in that over the
Speaker 2: last ten ishu years was more libertarian, I'd say in
Speaker 2: the first couple of years, as to be expected as
Speaker 2: I got married and have kids, become more conservative. But no, look,
Speaker 2: just one of the things we saw in the last
Speaker 2: couple of years that the Democrats completely ignored and your
Speaker 2: side was basically not acknowledging it was happening, was the
Speaker 2: crisis that young people were experiencing that I mean, just one,
Speaker 2: this is the first time in America's history that a
Speaker 2: thirty year old is going to have it worse off
Speaker 2: than their parents. It's a breakdown of the social compact.
Speaker 2: They are the most alcohol addicted, most drug addicted, most suicidal,
Speaker 2: most depressed, most medicated generation and history, and the message
Speaker 2: that was largely being fed to a lot of young
Speaker 2: people was lower your expectations. You're not going to have
Speaker 2: the same American dream that your parents would have. And
Speaker 2: we saw this as an opportunity, especially with young men,
Speaker 2: and again it's got ridiculed a lot by the press
Speaker 2: that oh, you know, they're creating this manosphere thing. Look,
Speaker 2: they're half of the population and necessary for any society
Speaker 2: and civilization to succeed, which is to have both strong
Speaker 2: men and strong women. And we went about that in
Speaker 2: a very unique and creative way. And again the president
Speaker 2: became a cultural phenomenon where no matter what you threw
Speaker 2: at this guy, he rosebuve and you would even have
Speaker 2: to give him credit. I mean, basically seven hundred years
Speaker 2: in federal prison. You know, States tried to kick him
Speaker 2: off the ballot. I know you spoke out against it,
Speaker 2: but California did have a faction that tried to kick
Speaker 2: him off the ballot, right, And despite all of that,
Speaker 2: of course being shot, and that was kind of the
Speaker 2: crescendo of all of it. He kind of became this
Speaker 2: figure of an American comeback story. So he personified what
Speaker 2: a lot of young people, especially young men, wanted back
Speaker 2: in their politics, which was an ascendant rebel attitude against
Speaker 2: these institutions that have failed them so miserably.
Speaker 1: It's interesting, So what would you keep saying we, which
Speaker 1: is interesting, and that's the organization that you created to yes.
Speaker 2: We would be like conservative movement. Maga, But yes, I
Speaker 2: have turning point you say a turney point action Charlie
Speaker 2: Kirk Show. But when I'm saying we, I mean more
Speaker 2: specifically kind of those of us that saw this political
Speaker 2: moment three or four years ago.
Speaker 1: But you were at this even before then, correct, Yeah,
Speaker 1: So when did you when did you decide to sort
Speaker 1: of just shift your gear? I mean you were working
Speaker 1: for another Kirk for campaign Mark Kirk. So you had
Speaker 1: a political obviously had strong political leanings or at least
Speaker 1: desire to sort of be in the political sphere, but
Speaker 1: not in elected office necessarily. You don't want to be
Speaker 1: behind the scenes.
Speaker 2: I mean, like the biography has been written about a
Speaker 2: million times, but I mean didn't didn't go to college,
Speaker 2: wanted to go to West Point, didn't get in. I'm
Speaker 2: an entrepreneur. Love it started this organization and it became
Speaker 2: far more successful than I ever could have realized. And
Speaker 2: the kind of as we started to grow the organization,
Speaker 2: I recognized that there was an ideological imbalance on a
Speaker 2: lot of these college campuses, and we wanted to go
Speaker 2: about trying to offer a counterpoint of conservative you know,
Speaker 2: pro freedom, pro liberty, you know America first Udy, and
Speaker 2: you saw the.
Speaker 1: College campuses as sort of the underbelly of the opportunity
Speaker 1: or is it just more just experiential in terms of
Speaker 1: your own sort of animus towards me.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, you have a sitting population about twenty
Speaker 2: million kids that are there for four years.
Speaker 1: There's that.
Speaker 2: And also again you'd nowhere to go about up. I
Speaker 2: mean seventy percent when we started in twenty twelve, seventy
Speaker 2: five percent of kids on college campuses would vote for Democrats. Now,
Speaker 2: fast forward today the saus election cycle. Democrats lost the
Speaker 2: youth vote in Michigan, nearly lost it in Wisconsin, nearly
Speaker 2: lost in Arizona. So our goal was, hey, let's move
Speaker 2: at ten points. We moved at thirteen points. And this
Speaker 2: is important for your audience to know and for Democrats
Speaker 2: to reckon with of which I see no signs that
Speaker 2: Democrats care at all that they're losing the next generation.
Speaker 2: We're drawing record crowds or ranks are expanding. The most
Speaker 2: support that President Trump has is voters under thirty. Sixty
Speaker 2: percent of voters under thirty support President Trump. It's according
Speaker 2: to Rasmus. And you might say that's a little rich.
Speaker 2: It might be, but it's directionally true. And one of
Speaker 2: the main reasons that this has all been happening is
Speaker 2: that baby boomers have actually seen their wealth increased the
Speaker 2: last four years. They don't buy into this whole idea
Speaker 2: that our institutions are broken or that they're in need
Speaker 2: of massive bottom up revolutionary change. And we see that
Speaker 2: actually Kamala Harris did three points better with baby boomers
Speaker 2: than she did in twenty twenty. And the number one
Speaker 2: story that you know, James Carville, who everyone takes seriously
Speaker 2: for some reason, should have been saying is like, all
Speaker 2: Kamala Harris had to do was just do the same
Speaker 2: with younger voters that Joe Biden did in twenty twenty,
Speaker 2: and she would be president right now.
Speaker 1: And remind us what Joe Biden did in twenty twenty.
Speaker 2: Thirteen points better in terms of just like America, kind
Speaker 2: of a combination of exit polling. So it's really it's
Speaker 2: a difficult science to pinpoint.
Speaker 1: So that goes back then, I mean to your point.
Speaker 1: In order to do that, you've got to stand for something,
Speaker 1: You've got to assert yourself, you got to have a strategy,
Speaker 1: and you got to implement it.
Speaker 2: You also have to not believe crazy stuff.
Speaker 1: And not believe crazy I mean, and so for you,
Speaker 1: I mean it's interesting just you know, this last week,
Speaker 1: I guess you were at USC. You were at the
Speaker 1: University of Florida, thousands and thousands of folks. You get
Speaker 1: to your point, your crowds are growing. Twenty twelve, where
Speaker 1: were you were coming in and people were I mean
Speaker 1: you were taking I mean, yeah, you were like getting threats.
Speaker 1: I mean you still get tons of threats, yep, But
Speaker 1: it was I mean, what was it like just to
Speaker 1: paint a picture of you walk into college that.
Speaker 2: Had no money, no connections, and no idea what I
Speaker 2: was doing. And yeah, I mean we were I didn't
Speaker 2: even have a social media account. I mean, it was
Speaker 2: just the ultimate startup.
Speaker 1: And would you do say I'm available and you started
Speaker 1: at this sort of debate.
Speaker 2: No, it was even more scrappy. I would literally show
Speaker 2: up to u W. Madison with a card table and
Speaker 2: a big cardboard sign saying debate me. You know, like
Speaker 2: here's some provostery twenty something. You know, I wouldn't even
Speaker 2: film it. It was I was eighteen or nineteen.
Speaker 1: Eighteen or nineteen and what you just what by the
Speaker 1: way where does that and sincerely to be able to
Speaker 1: debate anybody at any time, anywhere in that environment. It's
Speaker 1: just just I mean just you can you can say
Speaker 1: it's just confidence or it's just absolutely I mean narcissist.
Speaker 1: What is it?
Speaker 2: I mean just or just do I hope it's not
Speaker 2: the other, But no, I mean I guess it would be.
Speaker 2: I mean, at the most charitable reading, it could be confidence.
Speaker 2: It also just be that I wanted to try and
Speaker 2: challenge the predominant view. I always loved debate and this agreement.
Speaker 2: I love the kind of spar and yeah, I also
Speaker 2: find it to be exciting, and I wanted to try to,
Speaker 2: you know, figure out where my idea is actually that
Speaker 2: good and to kind of draw stress tests.
Speaker 1: Yeah, ten x better than you were in twenty twelve
Speaker 1: at the format probably probably, And you study it where
Speaker 1: you just participate it. I mean what I when you
Speaker 1: look at the old great debates or you're reading debating books, you're.
Speaker 2: Watching yeah, and I mean less about debating. I mean,
Speaker 2: debating is a practice that can really only be refined,
Speaker 2: you know, with lots of routine and reps and repetition.
Speaker 2: Just more about studying, you know, the great books, philosophy, right,
Speaker 2: all those.
Speaker 1: Things, and so you and you make a point prior
Speaker 1: to that, I mean you to the point you never
Speaker 1: you know, went to community college.
Speaker 2: And I didn't even graduate community college, and you.
Speaker 1: An't even community which is great. By the way, I
Speaker 1: was going to college and marine. I got lucky, got
Speaker 1: a baseball coach that called me and allowed me to
Speaker 1: get to four year university. I was joking with you
Speaker 1: before we started nine to sixty SAT. I asked you
Speaker 1: about your SAT.
Speaker 2: To the act to the act, which proves two.
Speaker 1: Things, how young you are and how different things were
Speaker 1: you were. You grew up in Illinois.
Speaker 2: I grew up in which Midwest was traditionally more of
Speaker 2: an act.
Speaker 1: But this has been a point of pride for you
Speaker 1: that you didn't do a four year degree.
Speaker 2: Because I represent most of the country. Is that actually
Speaker 2: still the majority of the country does not have a
Speaker 2: college degree. And if I may, you know bluntly critique
Speaker 2: the Democrat Party. You guys have become so college credentialed
Speaker 2: and educated that you guys snobbishly look on the muscular
Speaker 2: class of this country, the people that kept things afloat
Speaker 2: and running during COVID and yeah, I mean the majority
Speaker 2: of the country didn't go to Harvard, Princeton, Yale, Stanford, Caltech,
Speaker 2: or cal Berkeley. Right, and the Republican Party has become
Speaker 2: far more representative of them, large in part thanks to Trump.
Speaker 2: But yeah, and look I say it with some pride
Speaker 2: also because as an entrepreneur, I tried to build something, right,
Speaker 2: not just zeco credential.
Speaker 1: Love that and what And they're what eleven million folks,
Speaker 1: there are million jobs out there. You make this point
Speaker 1: all the time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, open jobs that don't require college.
Speaker 1: Do not require college degree. So when you say, and
Speaker 1: it's interesting because there's sort of that critique of the
Speaker 1: Democratic Party that we are captured by the sort of
Speaker 1: college elite in what respect I mean stress tests that
Speaker 1: for a second. Allow me to what specifically are you
Speaker 1: referencing in that.
Speaker 2: Your voters, Your voters have become nearly I mean unan.
Speaker 2: The higher you go up the education ladder, the higher
Speaker 2: the correlation it is that you vote for the Democrat Party.
Speaker 2: And it's almost a one to one with PhD. It's
Speaker 2: like seventy five percent for master's degrees, and it's sixty
Speaker 2: five percent.
Speaker 1: Why why do you think that's the case, what are
Speaker 1: the issues that sort of are identifying.
Speaker 2: The line in that respect, the sloppy analysis like, oh,
Speaker 2: they're smarter, therefore they must be Democrats, right, And I
Speaker 2: think that's silly and insane, but an insulting I totally agree.
Speaker 2: The more, the deeper, and more profound analysis is that
Speaker 2: a lot of ideological bubbles that exist on these college campuses.
Speaker 2: They are homogeneous, not heterodoxs when it comes to what
Speaker 2: ideas are expressed. And then secondly, the value system that
Speaker 2: you leave on college campuses is high trust of institutions.
Speaker 2: So the biggest divide in America is not right versus left.
Speaker 2: It's whether or not you generally trust institutions or you
Speaker 2: don't trust institutions. And this has been largely inverted the
Speaker 2: last twenty years. So back in the early two thousands,
Speaker 2: Democrats were low trust of institutions, iraq war, anti Bush,
Speaker 2: anti NSA, anti Patriot Act, and that's when you guys
Speaker 2: had a lot of activist spark and energy. That has
Speaker 2: been completely inverted. So the right is now low trust
Speaker 2: of institutions, where the left is high trust institutions. We're
Speaker 2: the ones that challenge the COVID vaccine. We're the ones
Speaker 2: that think that public health authorities might have lied to
Speaker 2: us during COVID. We're the ones that don't necessarily believe
Speaker 2: the government when it says that we should keep on
Speaker 2: sending money to Ukraine. Again, that's a general rule. There
Speaker 2: are some exceptions to that. But when you go to college,
Speaker 2: you are trained to trust the experts, trust the scientists,
Speaker 2: trust the people that are leaders of authority, and the
Speaker 2: Democrat Party is largely the gatekeepers of that kind of
Speaker 2: ideological and intellectual regime.
Speaker 1: It's interesting and so from your perspective, I mean, do
Speaker 1: you advocate for people to sort of open up a
Speaker 1: worldview that is life without a four year degree and
Speaker 1: all the opportunities that present themselves anew in that respect,
Speaker 1: are you arguing for the disestablishment the end of higher education?
Speaker 2: I think it's going to happen, no matter what I mean,
Speaker 2: And in ten years, artificial intelligence is going to change everything,
Speaker 2: and I don't know what these four year degrees are
Speaker 2: actually doing to prepare these kids for that. But now,
Speaker 2: as far as like I'm not, I mean my advocating
Speaker 2: for the end of the pursuit of learning, of course not.
Speaker 2: That's one of my big critiques is that at a
Speaker 2: lot of these schools, they're not pursuing what is good,
Speaker 2: true and beautiful. It's become the oppression Olympics and a
Speaker 2: weaponized complaint seminar of people sitting in the circle and
Speaker 2: finding out who's been offended the most that day. That's
Speaker 2: not doing anybody any good, no, and in fact, it
Speaker 2: creates a very weak political movement, which I think plays
Speaker 2: into one of the reasons why we were able to
Speaker 2: steamroll you guys back in November, is that once there's
Speaker 2: a little opposition against a group of people that have
Speaker 2: never actually been you know, had to build the muscle
Speaker 2: mass of a very difficult and unpredictable world. Whereas those
Speaker 2: of us that are conservatives, we're insulted all the time.
Speaker 2: So think about the experience of a kid on a
Speaker 2: college campus. They say they're graded differently because of their views.
Speaker 2: They may or may not be right. I think they are,
Speaker 2: but they're definitely in the ideological minority. Right, you wear
Speaker 2: a Trump pat on a college campus. At least until
Speaker 2: we came around, that was like a big sign of
Speaker 2: cultural rebellion. So you have two choices. You can either
Speaker 2: stop fighting for what you believe in, or you become
Speaker 2: really tough, and you create that muscle that allows you
Speaker 2: to then carry and shoulder a heavier burden.
Speaker 1: And so just and I don't want to blame the
Speaker 1: issues of the establishment plot called higher education. It's some
Speaker 1: have not you referred to it, though maybe you align yourself.
Speaker 2: I wrote a whole book called the college scamp cause,
Speaker 2: so it's.
Speaker 1: Sort of it's sort of stress testing that in the
Speaker 1: context of some would argue the contra argument is, you know,
Speaker 1: a million dollars more in lifetime earnings, more likely to
Speaker 1: get married, less likely to get divorced, more likely to
Speaker 1: be civically engaged, and longer life spans with college degrees.
Speaker 1: And you would say.
Speaker 2: All of those is true. It's just let's not everyone
Speaker 2: that goes to college graduates the national graduated. Yeah, forty
Speaker 2: one percent drop out, exactly right. Also, half the kids
Speaker 2: that graduate college will not even end up using their
Speaker 2: degree when it comes to the affiliated job. So the
Speaker 2: numbers are true. At the highest incomes, about ten percent
Speaker 2: of kids that go to college stretch out the averages
Speaker 2: to be really really high. And so, for example, you
Speaker 2: go to cal Tech to study computer engineering and applied AI.
Speaker 2: Next man, you're crushing it right, You go to cal
Speaker 2: to go study North African lesbian poetry, Like, is that
Speaker 2: an actual degree there? You tell me, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I mean we fund in front of the fact that
Speaker 2: you don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't know every single day.
Speaker 2: I know it's the largest, but it's if the fact
Speaker 2: it's a maybe we got some problems, well.
Speaker 1: The fact that a lot of people have explored different disciplines,
Speaker 1: like that's fine, it's.
Speaker 2: Just the taxpayer shouldn't have to fund it.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I mean increasingly the individuals are funding is
Speaker 1: you know, it's relates to the talk about the inversion
Speaker 1: of how we fund education. And by the way, just FYI,
Speaker 1: having just put together a career master plan. We had
Speaker 1: a master plan in the state of California that created
Speaker 1: the uc systems, the CSUS in the community college system
Speaker 1: half century ago. We've applied the same discipline to a
Speaker 1: career master plan in the state of California. And so
Speaker 1: I'm completely aligned with you in terms of a focus
Speaker 1: and energy there and looking at pre apprentice apprenticeships, looking
Speaker 1: not even apprenticeships in the traditional sense, but valuing and
Speaker 1: highlighting and signaling the value of a life without a degree.
Speaker 1: Et cetera. So I'm not as far off on this
Speaker 1: as you are. That said, I've just I've got to
Speaker 1: admire what you've been able to do, not to weaponize,
Speaker 1: but to organize on these college campuses. A different point
Speaker 1: of view. And again let's talk about some of that
Speaker 1: when you go to these college campuses. I love watching
Speaker 1: your TikTok, which is next level, and clearly that's expressed
Speaker 1: by my thirteen year old son.
Speaker 2: I want to meet this guy. Yeah, I actually it's
Speaker 2: coming to a turning point event this summer Tampa, Florida
Speaker 2: Student Action Summit.
Speaker 3: Actually, because by the way, if you should be concerned,
Speaker 3: but let me say here, here is why I'm concerned,
Speaker 3: because you have expressed that I should be concerned as
Speaker 3: a Democrat that we're getting Oh we're getting blobbard.
Speaker 1: Yes, that you've you've figured something out.
Speaker 2: It's not me. The president first deserves the credit.
Speaker 1: But why no, no, hold on, you were at this
Speaker 1: before Trump was trying to know, but he was a
Speaker 1: Democrat back in twenty eleven.
Speaker 2: The president deserves huge credit. And I just have to
Speaker 2: say that as an obligatory thing, because without him, our
Speaker 2: Mason would be small. And you can appreciate that. In politics,
Speaker 2: you have to appreciate the person.
Speaker 1: Who you for you, that's what you sort of attached.
Speaker 2: It was also just the catalyst. It was a cultural
Speaker 2: moment that just opened us up.
Speaker 1: But wait, but go back just on that, because I'm
Speaker 1: curious in twenty twelve, thirteen fourteen, who were you identifying
Speaker 1: with From the time.
Speaker 2: I mean, I was more like, as I mentioned, Ron
Speaker 2: Paul Ran Paul, Libertarians, that's where the energy really was, right,
Speaker 2: and then President Trump comes on again. I was still
Speaker 2: very early in my political journey. So you're looking up
Speaker 2: a lot. You know, who's the top voices, what do
Speaker 2: you believe? Why do you believe it?
Speaker 1: Yeah? So more the libertarian friend.
Speaker 2: It was more and I still have some libertarian leanings
Speaker 2: on something.
Speaker 1: And when Trump came down that escalator, you're like, oh.
Speaker 2: Not day one, No, I was. I was mystified at first.
Speaker 2: Why are you saying this guy's there's no chance? It's funny.
Speaker 2: I actually sent out a tweet very like twenty eleven
Speaker 2: when I was high school saying Trump should run for office.
Speaker 2: But I was not mystified. Negatively, I was like, can
Speaker 2: this really happen? Can a guy that has no political experience,
Speaker 2: come down an escalator. He challenged the whole establishment.
Speaker 1: Right, But you didn't expect Donald Trump to come down
Speaker 1: the escalator and start talking about illegal aliens or you know,
Speaker 1: I disagree with it. What you didn't?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I get that being and again this is well docmanted.
Speaker 2: Early in my journey, I underestimated the silent majority that
Speaker 2: really wanted a rebalancing of the American political landscape.
Speaker 1: So interesting, So Trump then became the catalysts, and so
Speaker 1: turning point became sort of next level. You're a first
Speaker 1: start that's going oranize around that turning point.
Speaker 2: Action becomes the political arm. So one is more educational,
Speaker 2: one is more political. And we did ballot chasing in
Speaker 2: Arizona and Wisconsin. We were successful in that alongside the
Speaker 2: Trump campaign. Arizona was the best performing swing state.
Speaker 1: And you're not modeling yourself at anything because the flatness
Speaker 1: of the surrounding terrain, meaning we're the Democrats, had other organizing.
Speaker 2: We were modeling off of some of the ballot chasing
Speaker 2: ballot harvesting practices of the left. But I mean there's
Speaker 2: again that's a self limiting principle. You can't ballot chase
Speaker 2: if no one wants to vote for you. So, I mean,
Speaker 2: you could have the best organizers in the world and
Speaker 2: you have two thousand people chasing ballots in Arizona and
Speaker 2: you're runn Kamala Harris in Arizona. You actually was. And
Speaker 2: what we ended up tracking through our data is that
Speaker 2: the Democrats were chasing for us, is that they were
Speaker 2: chasing low propensity Hispanics, thinking that they were all for
Speaker 2: Kamala And in fact, we were looking at the precinct
Speaker 2: numbers of areas we didn't hit that moved like twenty
Speaker 2: points in Trump's direction. We're like, well, thank you very much,
Speaker 2: ca a campaign for getting out and chasing our ballots.
Speaker 2: And you know, for all this, these Hispanic men that
Speaker 2: are mechanics, we appreciate it. Thanks for making sure that
Speaker 2: we also won Dave McCormick's Senate seat, right right, So again,
Speaker 2: chasing is only one part of the like, Democrats, of course,
Speaker 2: are better organizers than us. I mean, it's in your blood.
Speaker 2: Barack Obama is a community organizer. We make fun of it.
Speaker 2: It's who you guys are. You guys have labor as
Speaker 2: a backbone, clipboard and tennis shoes.
Speaker 1: However, labor less and less we can talk about for.
Speaker 2: Sure and moment. Yeah, but what we always felt that
Speaker 2: we had as we felt we had better ideas and
Speaker 2: a better message and all that the idea was, can
Speaker 2: we combo a little bit of organizing practices with a
Speaker 2: mass movement, which is how you get a national popular
Speaker 2: vote victory and an overwhelming electoral landslide.
Speaker 1: And so what do you see just? I mean I
Speaker 1: sort of talked about the flatness of the surrounding terrain,
Speaker 1: meaning the Democratic parties party in some respect as it
Speaker 1: relates to appreciate your point about organizing, but also corrosion
Speaker 1: versus you know, sort of forcing people to vote versus
Speaker 1: an enthusiasm and a desired actually proactively.
Speaker 2: That actually that has a backfiring effective.
Speaker 1: I totally I appreciate that. And so what what do
Speaker 1: you see right now? I mean, you know, I think
Speaker 1: you talked about it the other day. A lot of
Speaker 1: folks were talking about that Carvil article where he talked
Speaker 1: about over rollover in SNCA.
Speaker 2: I think it was a strategic.
Speaker 1: Retreat, right that we need to come back. Trump's starting
Speaker 1: to plode a numbers are getting soft, and this was
Speaker 1: even before the tariff issues et cetera, and then come
Speaker 1: back and strike when hot, and I immediately nobody else
Speaker 1: thought about you, who's just twenty four to seven flooding
Speaker 1: the zone. Back to my thirteen year old owning this
Speaker 1: space every day, getting a convert every day, picking up
Speaker 1: one to ten thousand folks, continuing the momentum coming out
Speaker 1: of this damn election. And then I'm thinking about, we're
Speaker 1: going to stand back and watch you run circles around
Speaker 1: us for six months, the next two or three years,
Speaker 1: waiting for the moment to finally strike. Strike struck me
Speaker 1: as not necessarily the best advice. And it's not a
Speaker 1: knock on Carvil, who I have deep respect for.
Speaker 2: That's okay, so I don't have to he was He's
Speaker 2: right about one thing in the last forty years. It's
Speaker 2: economy stupid, and boys, he spent that He spent down
Speaker 2: that one line pretty amazingly. But yeah, look, I'll say,
Speaker 2: I don't want to make this about Carville, but like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I hope you guys retreat you kind of like that
Speaker 2: for us. I mean, if there's no opposition, there's no
Speaker 2: arctivist activist spark, if like you guys are posting these
Speaker 2: cringe videos on social media are the ones I don't
Speaker 2: know this like har harmonious thing of like twenty two
Speaker 2: senators all saying the same thing like that, Yeah, I
Speaker 2: didn't like it. What do you go ahead, go do
Speaker 2: more of that? What are you doing?
Speaker 1: But what do you do? Seriously, Charlie Kirk, give us
Speaker 1: some of.
Speaker 2: The better ideas governor, Like for example, I mean, like
Speaker 2: if you want to, like, you have an opportunity to, like,
Speaker 2: you know, run to the middle and see this man's
Speaker 2: obviously you're talking to me about people, So like you
Speaker 2: right now should come out and be like, you know what,
Speaker 2: the young man who's about to win the state championship
Speaker 2: in the long jump in female sports, that's that that
Speaker 2: shouldn't happen. You as the governor should step out and
Speaker 2: say no, no, And I appreciate and but like, would
Speaker 2: you do something like that? Would you say no men
Speaker 2: in female sports?
Speaker 1: Well, it's I think it's an issue of fairness. I
Speaker 1: completely agree with you on that. It is an issue affairs.
Speaker 2: So it's deeply would you speak out against this young man,
Speaker 2: baby Hernandez, who right now is going to win the
Speaker 2: state championship in the long time, I can see you
Speaker 2: wrestling with it.
Speaker 1: No, I'm not wrestling. I'm not relaction with the fairness issue.
Speaker 1: I totally agree with you. By the way, as someone
Speaker 1: with four kids, you got to think two daughters, right,
Speaker 1: two daughters and a wife that went God forbid to Stanford,
Speaker 1: played on the junior national soccer team, and a guy
Speaker 1: who got into college only because I was left handed
Speaker 1: and could throw baseball a little bit or hit the
Speaker 1: ball for a little bit. So I revere sports, and
Speaker 1: so the issue of fairness is completely legit. And I
Speaker 1: saw that the last couple of years. Boy did I
Speaker 1: saw how you guys were able to weaponize that.
Speaker 2: Issue at another weaponize Don't that's that's.
Speaker 1: Webinized, maybe Pajordan of You're right, but you were able
Speaker 1: to shine a light on highlight it in a way
Speaker 1: that frankly, there are not that many we're talking about.
Speaker 1: I think two, five hundred and ten thousand. No, No,
Speaker 1: but I just didn't realize.
Speaker 2: It's eight hundred ninety medals in trophies that we know
Speaker 2: of in the last five years. That's a lot.
Speaker 1: No. So I'm gonna let me step back saympletely fair
Speaker 1: on the issue of fairness. I completely agree. So that's
Speaker 1: easy to call out the unfairness of that. There's also
Speaker 1: a humility and a grace. You know that that these
Speaker 1: poor people are more likely to commit suicide, have anxiety
Speaker 1: and depression, and the way that people talk down to
Speaker 1: vulnerable communities is an issue that I have a hard
Speaker 1: time with as well. So both things I can hold
Speaker 1: in my hand. How can we address this issue with
Speaker 1: the kind of decency that I think you know it's
Speaker 1: inherent in you, but not always expressed on the issue. No,
Speaker 1: I get it. At the same time, deal with.
Speaker 2: The unfair you're asked. You asked a good faith question,
Speaker 2: like how do we Democrats get out of the wilderness? Yeah,
Speaker 2: this one is an eighty twenty issue in your time's poll, right,
Speaker 2: that's all.
Speaker 1: I agree with you.
Speaker 2: We're getting crushed on and like crush and you have
Speaker 2: an opportunity in the state to be like, Look, I
Speaker 2: have a heart for Aby Hernandez. I have a heart
Speaker 2: for the San Jose volleyball player. Yeah, let's give them compassion.
Speaker 2: But it's not fair. Is just for like a woman's
Speaker 2: entire woman's sports. I agree you know, by.
Speaker 1: The way I agree with you, I agree with you,
Speaker 1: and it's interesting I stress tested this child. I was wondering,
Speaker 1: I said, you know, in California, and I've been a
Speaker 1: leader in the LGBT few places as face as you know,
Speaker 1: back in two thousand and four, was marrying same sex couples.
Speaker 1: And I know we have different opinion on marriage equality,
Speaker 1: and so I've been at this for years and years.
Speaker 1: I take a back seat to no one, But I
Speaker 1: was actually on the issue of sports, which in the
Speaker 1: last few years has just exploded. Trying to understand and
Speaker 1: understand the ten athletes in the NC TWOA five hundred
Speaker 1: and ten thousand athletes, but ten athletes, but how profound
Speaker 1: And even my own friend Cohort people saying, the hell
Speaker 1: is going on? Why aren't you calling this out? When
Speaker 1: did this happen? So in two thousand turns out in
Speaker 1: twenty fourteen, years before I was governor, there was a
Speaker 1: law established that established the legal principles that allow the
Speaker 1: allow trans athletes and women's sports. But the issue of
Speaker 1: fairness is completely jit. So I completely align with you,
Speaker 1: and we've got to own that and we've got to
Speaker 1: acknowledge it. I don't say that through the prism of
Speaker 1: politics because you disagree with same sex marriage on principle,
Speaker 1: and so I'm not And by the way, I value
Speaker 1: the fact that you're not trying to walk away from
Speaker 1: that principle because elector I'm in the minority of that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I don't want to walk away from this principle
Speaker 1: because of electoral But it is an issue of fairness,
Speaker 1: and I think Democrats, I.
Speaker 2: Think that the I wish that we would have done
Speaker 2: this podcast last week because well, because the US Senate
Speaker 2: just vote. Every Democrat voted against that bill. And I'm
Speaker 2: just telling you, like again, I'm not one to give
Speaker 2: Governor new some advice. You guys are giving us an
Speaker 2: eighty twenty issue that is just permeating the country. It's
Speaker 2: and is such an uffront to our senses. And you
Speaker 2: look at these videos, Governor, because it's not just that
Speaker 2: it's okay you read an article about it, but these
Speaker 2: young men that are you know, are in these sports.
Speaker 2: They're throwing around girls, and it is an issue of fairness.
Speaker 2: But it goes to a broader arch narrative there, which
Speaker 2: is important now and I want to hear this, which
Speaker 2: is this that that that you that the Democrats, you
Speaker 2: guys will tend to view an incident through an oppressor
Speaker 2: of press Blens. Yeah, it's your training. It comes from college,
Speaker 2: it comes from and we as conservatives tend to view
Speaker 2: things through right or wrong, or just or unjust, and
Speaker 2: the country is going far more in our direction and
Speaker 2: away from your direction, because the problem with oppress or
Speaker 2: oppressed is eventually you run out of oppressors and you
Speaker 2: start creating them out of thin air, and you start
Speaker 2: trying to say, well, these people must to be blamed
Speaker 2: for all of our problems. Or that's where you get
Speaker 2: a lot of the let's just say a lot of
Speaker 2: For example, there's Wall Street Journal editorial like when will
Speaker 2: the white men shut up or stop complaining? That does
Speaker 2: no good for anybody? Right, So what I'm what I'm
Speaker 2: getting at, though, is it's a worldview difference, right, And.
Speaker 1: So that is why the issue is so much more powerful.
Speaker 2: Of course it is because, but it's also pattern recognition.
Speaker 2: It's pattern recognition of a Democrat party that post twenty
Speaker 2: twenty decided to go all and we call it woke,
Speaker 2: you might call it you know, justice or whatever it is,
Speaker 2: but it's so outside of what we would consider traditional
Speaker 2: Americans norms and customs. A Democrat strategist would say, oh, Charlie,
Speaker 2: you're weaponizing stuff, not you, but like that's a typical,
Speaker 2: typical thing. But the most effective ad of this election cycle,
Speaker 2: the most effective ad, you know what it.
Speaker 1: Is, Yeah, and devastating. Trump's for you, She's for them.
Speaker 2: And devastating again in the state, devastating and devastation.
Speaker 1: She didn't even react to it, which was even.
Speaker 2: More Why was devastating? Number one, it was the trans
Speaker 2: issue that was just you know, monopolizing.
Speaker 1: And this was this was even more challenging because there's
Speaker 1: issues of people that are incarcerated and illegal and illegal
Speaker 1: incarcerated individuals getting taxpayer funded yes, and gender reassignments agents
Speaker 1: that is a ninety ten not an age, right.
Speaker 2: And then she's like enthusiastically defending dragging, being like, I'm
Speaker 2: all for this, all all for this.
Speaker 1: And then you had the video that it was a
Speaker 1: validator brutal. Yeah, and so tensi millions brutal. And then
Speaker 1: the targeted focus from the from the Trump campaign next.
Speaker 2: Level, and then Charlotte Ma comes out on Breakfast Club
Speaker 2: is like, this is insane and they ran it on
Speaker 2: in a football brilliant yes, And so you're trying to
Speaker 2: reach men. It's it's not like, it's not this a
Speaker 2: brilliant campaign.
Speaker 1: Commercial was brutal. DEBI doesn't require the way we were
Speaker 1: running around just in the for the what the hell
Speaker 1: it's worth for you? She was ag at the time
Speaker 1: she was addressing the issue of a legal settlement. The
Speaker 1: courts were interviewed, still happening, but she had the video
Speaker 1: where in the video she was obviously expressed support and
Speaker 1: so she was being a cheerleader for a very popular thing.
Speaker 1: It was, and it was it was a great ad.
Speaker 1: And I say that lightly.
Speaker 2: This is political and I want to make sure this
Speaker 2: it's not just that this was like the Willie Horton
Speaker 2: ad of the twenty twenty four. It wasn't just like
Speaker 2: a leatwater brilliance. It's that it reflected truth that the
Speaker 2: voters felt. Yeah, I appreciate it, and that because because
Speaker 2: voters felt as if their country was slipping away. Now
Speaker 2: you have the Democrats have a choice. You could say
Speaker 2: to those people you're racist, your Nazis, your fascists, you're terrible,
Speaker 2: or you can listen and be like, why is it
Speaker 2: that a steel worker in Pittsburgh who's voted Democrat. His
Speaker 2: entire life is voting for Trump despite all of you know,
Speaker 2: the stuff that's been thrown at him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and rhetoric that he's thrown it at us.
Speaker 2: Yes, context, but it's it's it's a pattern, and the
Speaker 2: trans thing is just one of those things. But the
Speaker 2: second element was also what we saw under Joe Biden,
Speaker 2: was if you came to the southern border from any
Speaker 2: country and you spoke the magic words, you could go
Speaker 2: to any city You're choosing right CBP one border app
Speaker 2: And all of a sudden, that steel worker in Pittsburgh's like,
Speaker 2: why am I paying all these taxes? And I'm getting
Speaker 2: my I can't afford beer, I can't afford anything. And
Speaker 2: so I guess my question is to you, what are
Speaker 2: the Democrats going to do about it?
Speaker 1: So I went and let me I'm going to answer
Speaker 1: that in a second, but let me just let me
Speaker 1: let me pull a few more threads. You said twenty
Speaker 1: twenty is when you started to seeing the Democrats sort
Speaker 1: of advanced this notion of wocism.
Speaker 2: So when THEO the awokening, the awokening really started, what
Speaker 2: was it? You know what I'm talking about?
Speaker 1: But so is it the LATINX stuff that By the way,
Speaker 1: not one person ever in my office has ever used
Speaker 1: the word LATINX.
Speaker 2: So can we finally put that to bed?
Speaker 1: Yeah? But what did that even?
Speaker 2: Know?
Speaker 1: More?
Speaker 2: Everybody?
Speaker 1: Well, I just didn't even know where it came from,
Speaker 1: And like, what are people talking about? Was it the pronouns?
Speaker 1: By the way, once once you'd think California invented the
Speaker 1: frame of the problem. Now I mean literally I had
Speaker 1: one meeting where people started going around the table protests one.
Speaker 1: There's been a hell of a lot of days between
Speaker 1: twenty twenty and today and one meeting, So it's not
Speaker 1: like this is I'm like, what the hell is? Why
Speaker 1: is this the biggest issue?
Speaker 2: Well, in corporate America's everywhere? Okay, all right, in college campuses.
Speaker 1: And must college see that's where you reside a lot
Speaker 1: in the college campus. You made a defund the schools
Speaker 1: if they're doing like Jesus okay, and it's a number
Speaker 1: number three? What else? I mean did you started me?
Speaker 1: What was also the big wokeism thing?
Speaker 2: I mean, I mean, first of all, it wasn't just
Speaker 2: it wasn't just the projection of certain narratives, which we
Speaker 2: could obviously go through but it's when policy started to
Speaker 2: come forward and what kind of policies hiring practices when
Speaker 2: it was there was We're not.
Speaker 1: There was de kides ago.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it was just what we saw. We
Speaker 2: saw mass adoption. What we saw and not only that,
Speaker 2: we saw pledging of billions of dollars of donations to
Speaker 2: racial justice from the biggest types of corporations imaginable.
Speaker 1: For the point.
Speaker 2: And then it was sort of post George Floyd That's
Speaker 2: what I'm saying, that's when that's when that's what you had.
Speaker 2: You had a combustible Was that wrong?
Speaker 1: I mean to address the issue of racial I mean
Speaker 1: there was there's legitimate issues as it relates to past practice.
Speaker 2: Was what was insulting. What was insulting to a lot
Speaker 2: of people is number one, where's the money going? Because
Speaker 2: the top premier BLM charity ended up being a racket,
Speaker 2: right with Patrice Colors, Like where'd that hundred million bucks go?
Speaker 2: So all of a sudden we learned that and all
Speaker 2: these pledges of corporate dollars, We're going to this woman
Speaker 2: that's like hiring her like brother for personal security, and
Speaker 2: that like a lot of and you would even agree
Speaker 2: like that that that became the number two. But number two,
Speaker 2: which I think was most important, was that it was
Speaker 2: it elevated then this scholarly community that was otherwise fringe,
Speaker 2: like Robin DiAngelo and other people, and her book White Frigid.
Speaker 2: Literally the entire premise of her book is that white
Speaker 2: people need to stop being so fragile about race. You
Speaker 2: need to sit down and shut up and hear how
Speaker 2: racist you are. And she was brought on tours to
Speaker 2: corporations across the country. And by the way, just you understand,
Speaker 2: this was a phenomenon over months and months, and it
Speaker 2: didn't quite catch up in turn in time for the
Speaker 2: twenty twenty election. I do believe that if you guys
Speaker 2: would have been a little less insane on crime in
Speaker 2: the summer of twenty, you would have completely clavered us.
Speaker 2: In November of twenty, it was like the it was
Speaker 2: the riots that even made twenty twenty close. But then
Speaker 2: it was the extension of all of the what we
Speaker 2: would call woke stuff.
Speaker 1: And defund police.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean Minneapolis literally had to hold a special
Speaker 2: vote saying like should we still have a police department?
Speaker 1: Yeah? That's I mean, I mean, that's that was lunacy.
Speaker 1: I mean, but governed by the way, by the way,
Speaker 1: you're talking to someone who's never supported the defense. But
Speaker 1: I was explicit, but.
Speaker 2: Also like you did support Prop sixteen and twenty twenty,
Speaker 2: which would have legalized racial racial prejudice.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: Prop sixteen literally would and to go back to not
Speaker 2: a year. You know, you're no sixteen.
Speaker 1: Until a nine to sixty sat so little hum.
Speaker 2: You're the governor of the largest state in the country. No, no, no,
Speaker 2: I saw your debate against the Santis. You're good at
Speaker 2: this stuff. You know I'm talking about. Props sixteen would
Speaker 2: have had legalized racial prejudice, which it got defeated by
Speaker 2: sixteen points despite all the institutions. So you're asking me,
Speaker 2: what did wokeism look like when California, when all the
Speaker 2: institutions yourself included, with all due respect, embraced this insane
Speaker 2: ballot measure. Guess what even the people of California didn't want.
Speaker 1: Yeah, II, racial dismember. California since nineteen ninety six has
Speaker 1: had Prop two oh nine. So the affirmative action case
Speaker 1: came from the Supreme Court as well. It's the institutions
Speaker 1: of hire learning had no impact on California, so we've
Speaker 1: Actually it's an interesting California also codified as a constitutional
Speaker 1: amendment marriage between a man and a woman, and that
Speaker 1: was in the two thousand. So California runs an interesting
Speaker 1: I saw.
Speaker 2: A contractinating though that despite I mean, there was really
Speaker 2: like no opposition. It was like a couple hundred like
Speaker 2: Asian ratiativists, honestly, go back to it. But I just
Speaker 2: want to say, if you asked the question what did
Speaker 2: wokeism look like? Prop sixteen in California that would have
Speaker 2: had legalized racial discrimination.
Speaker 1: That was not a major There was a broader no
Speaker 1: just I'm.
Speaker 2: Gonna bring it home to you. There were hundreds of
Speaker 2: such ballot referendums.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: There was you know, city council meetings where they said
Speaker 2: the white people aren't allowed here, right, and what's not good?
Speaker 2: I know it's not good. And so what that ends
Speaker 2: up happen. What ends up happening is a broader question
Speaker 2: of sensible not racist suburban moms that are like, wait
Speaker 2: a second, I have a eight year old white son.
Speaker 2: Are you trying to say he's a racist? And it
Speaker 2: creates a backlash that then bubbles up.
Speaker 1: Right, I appreciate I appreciate that perspective, and know I
Speaker 1: appreciate not just the perspective, I totally appreciate what you
Speaker 1: just said as an explicit statement of fact to make
Speaker 1: an eight year old feel like the racist is absurd.
Speaker 2: Governor, with all the respect that's happening right now in
Speaker 2: California policy. And I'm not trying to drill you on you.
Speaker 2: I'm just being honest, Like you could say that, but
Speaker 2: like maybe you should like convene a special session and say,
Speaker 2: like no more you know, race based teaching against white
Speaker 2: people in the schools of California or Asians. I'm just
Speaker 2: saying though that, like this is not a conjecture, it's
Speaker 2: not hypothetical. It is embedded into the DNA of the
Speaker 2: Democrat Party.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, I appreciate, I mean the whole how the
Speaker 1: CRT stuff, Yes, I mean where I was trying to
Speaker 1: find it. You think we have CRT and K through
Speaker 1: twelve and.
Speaker 2: Do you have principles of it? I mean, of course,
Speaker 2: critical theory is like a PhD that's sort of different
Speaker 2: by Derek Bell and Kimberly Crenshaw, but of the same
Speaker 2: way that you have advanced physics and the theories of
Speaker 2: physics in eighth grade. It's like saying that, but for example,
Speaker 2: I mean, it's very simple.
Speaker 1: And at least that explains why, because I'm just trying
Speaker 1: to find it.
Speaker 2: And we know over at least fifty schools in California
Speaker 2: that do things called privilege walks. Do you know what
Speaker 2: privilege walks are?
Speaker 1: What privileged?
Speaker 2: Where they make kids walk ahead based on certain questions
Speaker 2: and they try to make a point saying, well, you
Speaker 2: see the white people are ahead, they must have white privilege.
Speaker 1: Okay, I get it. Yeah, No, like, all right, I
Speaker 1: got to get back to back into the classroom that
Speaker 1: I got to get. You got six million kids, get
Speaker 1: your allocations. One thousand and fifty school this's the largest
Speaker 1: resting play. But no excuse because these things are important.
Speaker 1: And by the way, it's the reason we're having this conversation.
Speaker 1: I'm this is very illuminating and I ful to me
Speaker 1: to understand sort of the animus. What is it about?
Speaker 1: You know that? Anime? I joke with people, I said,
Speaker 1: what you know, you guys don't like DEE I, C
Speaker 1: R T, E, S G D O J FBI.
Speaker 2: It's a acronym.
Speaker 1: It's all the nam three letter acronyms. What's what the
Speaker 1: hell is the issue? What's going on with all that?
Speaker 2: You know? I can I do you miss some which ones?
Speaker 1: Which others? Whatever? I missed?
Speaker 2: E p A. Of course you can can't study the
Speaker 2: Employment Prevention Agency.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, you're about to get that sixty five percent.
Speaker 2: That's what Look I mean, look, I mean the So
Speaker 2: it's not just acronyms that we dislike, for the record,
Speaker 2: but it's it's what goes like that subtimes.
Speaker 1: I mean, how about the book band stuff. On a
Speaker 1: serious note, forty forty and forty books or titles, libraries
Speaker 1: and schools are banned in twenty twenty three? Is that
Speaker 1: not as a as a conservative?
Speaker 2: Well it depends. I mean, I think we can both
Speaker 2: agree pornography should not be did nine year old a
Speaker 2: fair point?
Speaker 1: Okay, so that's a book band, all right? Well there
Speaker 1: are some other books No, no, no.
Speaker 2: That was the Moms for Liberty contention timeout like Ivory
Speaker 2: and Bill Radley. The Mom's for Liberty movement that you
Speaker 2: made a big thing of was just no porn to
Speaker 2: ten year olds we agread. So those bands should be
Speaker 2: those book should be banned. So what we should do, right,
Speaker 2: now is every California school that has porn in their
Speaker 2: library should be kicked out the Bible. Well, I wouldn't
Speaker 2: say the Song of Solomon is porn.
Speaker 1: But I thank some have made that point. Is that
Speaker 1: a fair I don't think that's fair as a man
Speaker 1: of faith, and I deeply admire that about you.
Speaker 2: Thank you, yes, sir, But no, I mean again, the
Speaker 2: Song of Solomon is rather risky. But what we're talking
Speaker 2: about in these books is not just the words, it's
Speaker 2: also the images. And again your audience can look at
Speaker 2: the images themselves. It's highly graphic. But again, what.
Speaker 1: It seems a banning binge, I mean at next level
Speaker 1: sort of cancel culture.
Speaker 2: But why do you think moms are doing that? Do
Speaker 2: you think it's because they want to have mind control
Speaker 2: or do you think that they have come across I
Speaker 2: think the incident of incident of highly provocative material moms.
Speaker 1: But this mom's I mean, I don't have to get
Speaker 1: into mods for liberty. You brought up the book band
Speaker 1: deeply organized for a larger agenda. But that's my humble opinion.
Speaker 2: But I but for ex but let me just you know,
Speaker 2: kind of complete. The point is that it's easy to
Speaker 2: just call it kind of a book ban, but when
Speaker 2: you actually have to read some of these books, it
Speaker 2: will take your breath away of some of this stuff. Right,
Speaker 2: You're like, Okay, you know we're teaching attendants to what
Speaker 2: a condom on?
Speaker 1: I know, I just have a problem with you know,
Speaker 1: who the hell is going to decide that government, I mean,
Speaker 1: doron Desanta is going to decide what I can read
Speaker 1: or say. I mean in the boardroom.
Speaker 2: And this is the exercise of politics, though the exercise
Speaker 2: of politics is the highest form of community because it
Speaker 2: blends morality and sociability. So what we do is we
Speaker 2: have discussion and elections, and we have boards and commissions, right,
Speaker 2: and we as a people say okay, no porn for
Speaker 2: ten year olds. Yeah, and that's politics, right. I mean again,
Speaker 2: I'm not saying that there's.
Speaker 1: Something we've got to stress test where the Bibles including that.
Speaker 1: I don't even want to go forward any more of this. No,
Speaker 1: it's tough, but this is that comes then this OA,
Speaker 1: I just becomes a dialector.
Speaker 2: I have heard a lot I've never heard that's interesting though,
Speaker 2: I know, I mean, it's a it's a I don't think.
Speaker 1: I don't take it deeply. Don't mean offense by the
Speaker 1: way if father, cause would be offended if you But
Speaker 1: there's just there's but there's most of these books are
Speaker 1: critical on that portogram. There's sections that are that some kind.
Speaker 2: Of of images that are very violated to young kids.
Speaker 1: Some we would agree on that, but.
Speaker 2: Can one of you if you want to learn, Governor.
Speaker 2: And I'm happy that there is a movement of moms
Speaker 2: that is not that's growing where they feel as if
Speaker 2: our kids are being hyper sexualized, and I agree with
Speaker 2: them that they are being that they have to hear
Speaker 2: topics social media well, both in the social media and
Speaker 2: the plasticular. And I mean, look again, you signed a
Speaker 2: law where school districts can't even tell parents if their
Speaker 2: kids are trans. Not true, Actually okay, then.
Speaker 1: No they can. They just can't get fired for not
Speaker 1: doing that. And it wasn't just there was. The law
Speaker 1: was explicit said you can't be fired for not snitching
Speaker 1: on a kid, not just for being trans, for being gay.
Speaker 1: And my point is, how the hell but parents know
Speaker 1: they have everybody by the way, parents snitching. No, the
Speaker 1: teachers themselves have the right. The law is they can
Speaker 1: do that. They can do that We're not saying you
Speaker 1: can't do that. We're saying you shouldn't be fired if
Speaker 1: you choose not to say Johnny was talking about, you know,
Speaker 1: liking some other chad charitable. But let me freedom not
Speaker 1: let me tell.
Speaker 2: You the other way to say this that a teacher,
Speaker 2: of course should be fired if you don't notify a
Speaker 2: parent of what's happening to their kid. But I meant
Speaker 2: they should be terminated for that if the teaching.
Speaker 1: I want these kids to teach. I want these teachers
Speaker 1: to teach, and by the way they feel like the
Speaker 1: health or safety to the kid, they have a responsibility
Speaker 1: to communicate that. They still can't. By the way, we're
Speaker 1: not selling these teachers they can't. We're saying they won't
Speaker 1: be fired if they don't look around and say in
Speaker 1: the recess, there were two boys, Why didn't you see that?
Speaker 1: You're fired? You should have said something because they're talking about.
Speaker 2: Two different things. You're but there, of course should be
Speaker 2: a penalty measure, whether it be termination or whatever, if
Speaker 2: a teacher withholds information from a parent, Because what you're
Speaker 2: saying is that there's no way to hold them accountable.
Speaker 2: You're saying you're.
Speaker 1: Accountable to what though accountable two kids talking about the
Speaker 1: fact that this is a talking about subject matter all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, now we have to have teachers policing.
Speaker 1: I think beach or conversation.
Speaker 2: You would agree, Governor, that is an over extreme example
Speaker 2: what we're talking about. It's but the extreme example we're
Speaker 2: talking about is if which happens a lot, unfortunately, is
Speaker 2: if a young girl says that, hey, I want to transition,
Speaker 2: and the teacher accommodates and affirms it and the parent
Speaker 2: doesn't even know. I have met parents like that, and
Speaker 2: I heard.
Speaker 1: Of Trump and then they come back in there. But
Speaker 1: I think there's so much extreme.
Speaker 2: Right, I will say, and we don't have to, you know,
Speaker 2: we don't have to wrestle too much on this topic.
Speaker 2: But you guys will lose on these topics. No, I disagree,
Speaker 2: but but but I'm one of those guys.
Speaker 1: In child I appreciate and I, by the way, appreciate
Speaker 1: the cibility which we're engaged in this conversation. Sincerely, I
Speaker 1: don't mind losing. Sometimes you lose on Prince. It's one
Speaker 1: of those things. Everything's not political, is the point. And
Speaker 1: sometimes in principle and by the way, matter. Respect for
Speaker 1: you abortion and same I experienced us. The American people
Speaker 1: don't agree with me exactly and I but I admire
Speaker 1: that on principal. But for me, it's not just political,
Speaker 1: and I appreciate you you're making that point. I deeply
Speaker 1: am mindful of the politics of this, which are very unhelpful.
Speaker 1: I personally, it's unhelpful. More broadly professionally the Democratic Party
Speaker 1: in our brand and one of the reasons to your point,
Speaker 1: the Democratic Party brand has just been crushed.
Speaker 2: And so is your self. Awareness is helpful to know
Speaker 2: because it is deeply unpopular, and I think that that
Speaker 2: is that is an ascendant political force, right, that is
Speaker 2: not going away.
Speaker 1: No, I appreciate, but I also appreciate you hold deeply
Speaker 1: unpopular beliefs.
Speaker 2: Of course I do, but I I know, but you're
Speaker 2: not running for office. I'm not going to run as
Speaker 2: a moderate.
Speaker 1: What do you When do you when you're running for office?
Speaker 1: I saw running. I saw a poll in Arizona that
Speaker 1: you were like one or two. Yeah, the highest name
Speaker 1: ID and a favorability. When are you running? Is is
Speaker 1: that what this is all about?
Speaker 2: It's definitely no.
Speaker 1: You're not even old enough to be president. You're only
Speaker 1: thirty one years old.
Speaker 2: You got to be I mean, running anything you're going
Speaker 2: to run against I'm running for you know, head of
Speaker 2: most popular TikToker. But I'm not running for anything.
Speaker 1: But would we ban TikTok? Are you?
Speaker 2: No? It should?
Speaker 1: Now?
Speaker 2: I used to say that, and then I started.
Speaker 1: Why did you change your position because it's literally interesting
Speaker 1: or Trump told you to?
Speaker 2: Well, no, it definitely was not Trump. I sent out
Speaker 2: a tweet, and I'm perfectly honest about this. I think
Speaker 2: you'd respect this is that I was so mad at
Speaker 2: them because they would ban me all the time. And
Speaker 2: I sent out a tweet saying like, hey, if you
Speaker 2: guys are really for free speech as a creator, like,
Speaker 2: let's see it. Get a call from TikTok a couple
Speaker 2: hours later. We're going to show you that we're for
Speaker 2: free speech. We're going to show you the power of
Speaker 2: the platform.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: And I saw real changes where our campus interactions went
Speaker 2: from being banned to now well over two and a
Speaker 2: half billion views on TikTok. And so I wouldn't say expedient,
Speaker 2: I'd say impact. And also they now have changed some
Speaker 2: of their speech codes, They've changed some of their Hey,
Speaker 2: enough for your son. Some finds my content somehow.
Speaker 1: Look, I used TikTok. I was just out that wasn't
Speaker 1: out there. Try to jump in conversion. It's a it's
Speaker 1: a hell of a conversion.
Speaker 2: Hey, I'm I'm open about it.
Speaker 1: I appreciate. Back to the Democratic Party, we talked about
Speaker 1: just that we're not aligning with them. They don't trust us.
Speaker 1: I think we have thirty one favorability, fifty percent on
Speaker 1: favorability and by the way, thank you, thirty one percent
Speaker 1: favorability is not good enough. So I mean, what back
Speaker 1: to back to just the basics. So you you talked
Speaker 1: about wokeism broadly defined. We talked about some specific examples
Speaker 1: of that. You you began on the transport, which is
Speaker 1: interesting and I respect and appreciate.
Speaker 2: Want you to speak out against that one.
Speaker 1: I appreciate what we just did of all of you.
Speaker 1: I mean, and I've been by the way I've been
Speaker 1: saying that so interesting gets picked up and that maybe
Speaker 1: goes to the question we live in these filter bubbles.
Speaker 1: We're talking to ourselves. We're in the sort of yeah,
Speaker 1: it's Newsmax one, American News, Fox, and then it gets
Speaker 1: into all the stuff that you guys are doing and
Speaker 1: everybody else, And meanwhile I'm safe over here at MSNBC
Speaker 1: and CNN, reading the New York Times, feeling really great
Speaker 1: about things and having a nice class of chardonnay, listen
Speaker 1: to Rachel matdow self medicating and just going yes, yes,
Speaker 1: the press, laundry, the French that's of course the only
Speaker 1: place I eat. And you know, give me a great
Speaker 1: takeout in the whole thing where I should have been
Speaker 1: at Applebee's. I get it, Applebee's America. I read that.
Speaker 2: Come on, man in and out.
Speaker 1: And here's a guy who makes twenty five times more
Speaker 1: money than I do and sitting here with it with
Speaker 1: a jacket, and I'm sitting here with it.
Speaker 2: And you control the fifth largest economy.
Speaker 1: On the planet. We don't control the people control the
Speaker 1: fifth largest economy. And by the way, proud that you
Speaker 1: know it's a three point Any population went last year,
Speaker 1: A population went up last.
Speaker 2: Year because of the illegal border we'll talk about.
Speaker 1: That's just factually and true. And that was, by the way,
Speaker 1: three hundred and ninety four National Guard that I put
Speaker 1: down at the border six years ago. You should be
Speaker 1: championing that. As governor of three hundred ninety four. We
Speaker 1: have down at the border. We've been focused on I've
Speaker 1: been breaking.
Speaker 2: Out anyway, You're you're getting somewhere compliments.
Speaker 1: Stay no, yeah, I was going back to.
Speaker 2: You're talking about your your wining and dying at French laundry.
Speaker 1: Yes, I was talking about the importance of of of never. Well,
Speaker 1: I can't help you with the reservation. I've been very nice.
Speaker 1: By the way. We couldn't have this conversation with that conversation.
Speaker 1: Dumbest bonehead, move my life, okay, own it, move on,
Speaker 1: grow up.
Speaker 2: And I'm trying that you talking to you to be
Speaker 2: talking to myself.
Speaker 1: I'm just looking. I'm staring. I'm looking right you and
Speaker 1: the eyes as I say that, just to get your
Speaker 1: reaction that said, we we are We're losing. We have
Speaker 1: this I Field's asymmetry of Donald Trump and Elon Musk
Speaker 1: and on tweets. Are you doing social media and for
Speaker 1: me doing a three minute hit at three o'clock in
Speaker 1: the afternoon on CNN, I mean, how the hell will
Speaker 1: we compete?
Speaker 2: We're toast well, I mean part of it. And credit
Speaker 2: to you for doing long form podcasting, because long term
Speaker 2: podcasting does penetrate different audiences, right, and our show does
Speaker 2: very well. But part of the problem of the Democrat
Speaker 2: Party that for the health of the country, would be
Speaker 2: great to change, is that Democrats cannot survive in long
Speaker 2: form podcasting environments. It's too unscripted. It's too masculine, honestly,
Speaker 2: and the Democrat parties because what.
Speaker 1: I'm masculine about a podcast honestly, because I get the
Speaker 1: whole manosphere.
Speaker 2: That growth to go into the wilderness with no rules
Speaker 2: and duel it out and see who's better or who's strong. Seriously,
Speaker 2: I mean like getting I mean like we don't do it.
Speaker 1: You're right for whatever reason, don't do it.
Speaker 2: You can laugh. But like who in the Democrat Party
Speaker 2: you're right?
Speaker 1: Will go?
Speaker 2: I mean maybe Bernie Sanders, but he only he was
Speaker 2: a Democrat, Bobby Who's now hhs. But like, there's something
Speaker 2: to be said that if you want to earn the
Speaker 2: respect of forgotten America, you have to show them that
Speaker 2: you can intellectually joust with no script no hardbreaks, no
Speaker 2: producers in the ears, no teleprompters. That's where new media
Speaker 2: is going now, Will I will only challenge one thing,
Speaker 2: you say. I am reaching new audiences. I'm not talking
Speaker 2: to my bubble because our content is so appealing. It
Speaker 2: goes in a decentralized way. And it's not just political,
Speaker 2: no it's not. But like again, our conversation here is
Speaker 2: going to go far and wide right. A lot of
Speaker 2: people are going to see a lot of people are
Speaker 2: going to consume it because it's also politics entertainment have
Speaker 2: begun to overlap right right, And the old adage is
Speaker 2: while politics is downstream from culture, I think politics and
Speaker 2: culture are indecipherable from one another. Now Donald Trump became
Speaker 2: a cultural phenomenon. Right. You go into you know, inner
Speaker 2: city Compton, you'll see guys with Trump shirts with you know,
Speaker 2: the hand up, you know, fight fight fight. So what
Speaker 2: democrats are doing is you're still playing in a very old,
Speaker 2: hyper sanitized media environment. And my advice is you got
Speaker 2: to go where it's Unpredictablehere it's treacherous, where it's dangerous. Now,
Speaker 2: I would make a more provocative argument that you wouldn't
Speaker 2: necessarily resonate with, which is that that you guys have
Speaker 2: not You guys have not built the intellectual muscle over
Speaker 2: thirty years because you all agree with each other all
Speaker 2: the time.
Speaker 1: Well, not like conservatives are or massively disagreeing this. I
Speaker 1: Trump is completely collapsed on the conservative I would push
Speaker 1: back a little bit. I would disagree. We have a
Speaker 1: robust discussion. It seems like Congress is really doing great
Speaker 1: oversight of Trump right now. They're just holding out.
Speaker 2: That's an important but separate issue. I just want to
Speaker 2: finish the point when we could talk about Congress, which
Speaker 2: is that in the Republican Party we have immense and
Speaker 2: vocal and public spats all the time. I think you
Speaker 2: would agree we fight about form. Look at Ukraine, right,
Speaker 2: we're talking about primary challenging some of these senators that
Speaker 2: were meeting Zelenski last week. The Democrat Party would never
Speaker 2: do that. Now, I think that is a symptom of
Speaker 2: an underlying thing we are. We're constantly trying to find
Speaker 2: the approximation of what truth is. We're trying to use
Speaker 2: dialogue towards hey, who's right? What do you believe? Why
Speaker 2: do you believe it? And it's by no coincidence that
Speaker 2: out of the long form podcasting genres in the top ten,
Speaker 2: eight of them are conservatives, center right Rogan Megan Kelly,
Speaker 2: Theo Vaughn, The Paul Brothers Program, Ben Shapiro, Matt Walsh.
Speaker 2: There's a singular one on the left, which is Pod
Speaker 2: Save America, which is just like a bunch of Obama
Speaker 2: bros agreeing with each other for ninety minutes and saying
Speaker 2: that we're not very smart and you know, and so anyway, But.
Speaker 1: I appreciate no, but it's an objective truth, right, I mean,
Speaker 1: you just dominate this media. It's medium, but so what
Speaker 1: I mean, But it's interesting you're making a deeper that
Speaker 1: we're not and you didn't say it again in in
Speaker 1: a maligning way, but that we're just not capable because
Speaker 1: we're not why hardwired?
Speaker 2: Well, I think it's to be able to participate it. Well,
Speaker 2: I think that it's two things. Number One, your upbringing
Speaker 2: in college campuses does not foster debate like it used to.
Speaker 2: It just doesn't. It's that it's about silencing the critic
Speaker 2: and the elevation of the victim. So you do not
Speaker 2: have the practice of robust having to defend your position.
Speaker 2: It's very monolithic, it's very centralized, it's very top down.
Speaker 2: It's quasi of thought oritarian. And then secondly, I would
Speaker 2: just say that the philosophy on the worldview, as I
Speaker 2: mentioned earlier that you guys have adopted is that THOU
Speaker 2: which is oppressed will get the most points. You guys
Speaker 2: don't have Thou that has the best idea wins. And
Speaker 2: because of that, you guys have an elevation of like, hey,
Speaker 2: we're going to eventually, we're just going to have a
Speaker 2: small subset of a minoritarian, hectoring, hall monitor, assistant principal
Speaker 2: vibe of people telling you that you're not allowed to
Speaker 2: say these words and you can't say that, And we
Speaker 2: call that political correctness, which in and of itself is
Speaker 2: hyper authoritarians. So if you seek to understand why young
Speaker 2: men are rebelling, it's like, no, I'm not going to
Speaker 2: go along with this anymore. Like maybe I'm going to say,
Speaker 2: for an example, maybe I'm going to send out a
Speaker 2: stupid tweet when I'm seventeen years old. When I'm twenty six,
Speaker 2: I shouldn't have to get fired.
Speaker 1: Be that right now. I've never liked this, Cancel Calle.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm glad to hear you saying. I remember
Speaker 1: back when I was a lieutenant governor. I think Bill
Speaker 1: Maher was trying to get on the UC campus or something.
Speaker 1: They were saying Bill maher was too conservative voice, and
Speaker 1: we called that at the time it completed said, but
Speaker 1: it's equally insane that people are boycotting bud Light. I mean,
Speaker 1: how is that not culture?
Speaker 2: So I don't drink, but yeah, I mean.
Speaker 1: Like you don't drink at all. I mean, by the way,
Speaker 1: I'm just that's interesting. You don't never have I have. Yeah,
Speaker 1: what happened a couple of years ago? You stopped what
Speaker 1: you were stopped? Why'd you stop?
Speaker 2: I just wanted to be more successful.
Speaker 1: I love that. What were you drinking?
Speaker 2: Uh? Napa velly wine?
Speaker 1: Oh Jesus Christ, here we go. Right, are we going
Speaker 1: to get a little My Lord forgive by the way,
Speaker 1: forgive me. I I deeply respect. And by the way,
Speaker 1: do you respect to drink? Observed?
Speaker 2: Like the fourth time? Come on, No, no, I don't drink.
Speaker 2: But yeah, look, but first of all, we have the
Speaker 2: agency to boycott whatever we want. But understand, but.
Speaker 1: I mean in that cancel culture is reverse. I mean
Speaker 1: a lot of cancel culture.
Speaker 2: Hold right, it's something completely different. First of all, cancel
Speaker 2: culture is someone in power using their power to cancel
Speaker 2: somebody that doesn't have power. That's cancel home time out,
Speaker 2: hold on bud Light was people that don't have a
Speaker 2: lot of power, consumers using their agency to say no,
Speaker 2: powerful corporation, I'm not going to voluntarily associate with you.
Speaker 2: But cancel culture is always been the incumbent person with power,
Speaker 2: a governor, a principle, a boss, a CEO, a corporate board,
Speaker 2: going against the weaker. What we did with bud Light
Speaker 2: was just a bunch of decentralized folks doing a good
Speaker 2: old fashioned boycott.
Speaker 1: Completely different, but boycott is not I mean, whether there's
Speaker 1: boycotting speakers, there's boycotting, that is a derivative.
Speaker 2: But the culmination of cancel culture is somebody who has
Speaker 2: a power position wrongly canceling.
Speaker 1: I appreciate that respect. So let's go back to Democrats
Speaker 1: being totally incompetent, incapable of spending thirty, let alone forty
Speaker 1: five to an hour, glad having a conversation broadly on podcasts.
Speaker 2: You're you're becoming the exception.
Speaker 1: In the process of becos.
Speaker 2: It's like becoming Gavin, It's like becoming Michelle's right coming.
Speaker 1: But so what I mean, who do you are the Democrats?
Speaker 2: You do?
Speaker 1: Forget literally any Democrats you admire out there right now?
Speaker 1: I mean even beyond just the podcast thing that you
Speaker 1: look in, say, Jesus, there's hope forgive me there. We
Speaker 1: can edit that out. No, I don't care. You can
Speaker 1: keep it that.
Speaker 2: I used to have respect for Bernie on his anti
Speaker 2: war stance, and now he's a complete and was going
Speaker 2: to he's a complete in neocon now, so he's he's
Speaker 2: not there. Democrats, I respect you, Oh, Bobby Kennedy, I
Speaker 2: respect Tulsi Gabbard.
Speaker 1: Why are you laughing?
Speaker 2: Because the team now because you guys kicked out like
Speaker 2: your best people. It's like the people that were into
Speaker 2: This is a great point, though, Governor, is that Bobby
Speaker 2: Kennedy was a heterodox opinion on a thing that a
Speaker 2: lot of people are concerned about. Get him out. He's
Speaker 2: an anti vaxxer. Tulsi Gabbard, who is an anti wark,
Speaker 2: Get her out. She's a Russian agent. If you, guys,
Speaker 2: see how you have an unhealthy purification process where eventually
Speaker 2: you're left with just a thirty one percent approval rating
Speaker 2: and a bunch of people that are talking to each other.
Speaker 2: And meanwhile, we're the ones that have Democrats in our cabinet,
Speaker 2: winning the electoral majority vote because there needs to be said,
Speaker 2: we're if Democrats are serious about being a majority party.
Speaker 2: Ever again, when somebody has a disagreement, for example, if
Speaker 2: there's a pro life Democrat, is there a place for
Speaker 2: a pro life Democrat and the Democrat Party, I.
Speaker 1: Mean there should be. Okay, that's on principle, there should that.
Speaker 1: That's a bit, that's a big thing we held personal
Speaker 1: point of view. God blessed, I agree.
Speaker 2: Not in every party or Democrat official would say that, right,
Speaker 2: and so certain states have different opinions on that, and.
Speaker 1: I say, this is one of the biggest champions. I
Speaker 1: got them on the planet.
Speaker 2: Yeah, trust me, I know that, I know. But like
Speaker 2: the the issue though, is that that is like a
Speaker 2: that is a one stop purity test, Like we have
Speaker 2: pro choice Republicans. That is a pro choice Republican.
Speaker 1: No, and Trump himself decided to pivot a little bit.
Speaker 2: Pro choice than I am, like for sure. But what
Speaker 2: I'm saying though, is what you see in the Republican
Speaker 2: Party is the best, in my opinion, culmination of modern
Speaker 2: politics and doesn't get appreciated. Look at that ideological diversity.
Speaker 2: We have people that you know, geez, they want to
Speaker 2: go to war with every country that says something bad
Speaker 2: against us. And then we have people that are far
Speaker 2: more dubvish, you know, like Rand Paul, but that that
Speaker 2: is a better more Dare I say diverse picture? You
Speaker 2: could say diversity is our strength.
Speaker 1: Oh, look at you, Look at Charlie Kirk. Diversity is strength.
Speaker 1: I mean I want to end the podcast right there.
Speaker 1: But first I said you could say you could I
Speaker 1: want to do we have ultimate editing here.
Speaker 2: I'm going to know.
Speaker 1: We're not going to edit any of this. And and
Speaker 1: by the way, uh uh, no reason to edit any
Speaker 1: of this despite my use of inappropriate words here and there.
Speaker 1: Let me ask you just on the on the Democratic
Speaker 1: Party side, forgive me. I do want to just look
Speaker 1: where so our effort to get out of the wilderness,
Speaker 1: you know, on the woe culture wars, on some of
Speaker 1: these issues, on providing a more diverse uh campus. Dare
Speaker 1: I say of opinion?
Speaker 2: Uh?
Speaker 1: And pulling people in? But what what else do you?
Speaker 1: I mean do you feel this party? I mean, you
Speaker 1: be one point that the Republican Party is now going
Speaker 1: to be the dominant and send apart.
Speaker 2: I know I'm not saying you're rid. I don't I
Speaker 2: don't have that kind of pride. I'm not saying. I'm
Speaker 2: saying right now we are the ascendant worldview. We could
Speaker 2: screw this up easily. It might be you have to
Speaker 2: have the humility to say that. But like as of
Speaker 2: the recording of this podcast, we have a majority approve
Speaker 2: we're winning w onon the electoral I mean all that.
Speaker 1: Stuff, right any both houses. I mean, we could screw
Speaker 1: it up and you guys could adjust to adapt. Okay,
Speaker 1: So this is what this was my This was the
Speaker 1: question that I'm not articulating very effectively. But I remember
Speaker 1: so many of the similar contours of this conversation we
Speaker 1: were having. In two thousand and four and two thousand
Speaker 1: and five, you just got Schelac both houses of Congress Republicans.
Speaker 1: You had a Republican president that won the popular vote,
Speaker 1: the last Republican president to win the popular vote, and
Speaker 1: two years later you had Speaker Nancy Pelosi. Four years
Speaker 1: later you had fifty three percent of the vote, the
Speaker 1: highest since nineteen one.
Speaker 2: I don't say that's impossible.
Speaker 1: So so what if if you were in my camp,
Speaker 1: what is not going to give you.
Speaker 2: My best advice? I'll give you. I'll give you like
Speaker 2: the B or C level.
Speaker 1: Okay, give me, give me the B plus.
Speaker 2: Because the secret stuff I'm not sure.
Speaker 1: No, when you got what is your secret stuff there?
Speaker 2: That's secret for it?
Speaker 1: Is it? Is it technical? Or is it?
Speaker 2: It's all that I can design your presidential run in
Speaker 2: a way and we're.
Speaker 1: This is not no, you got by the way. You
Speaker 1: guys are so obsessed with the idea that every goddamn
Speaker 1: thing I do. I said it again. Yeah, I said
Speaker 1: it again because I needed your emotional reaction that everything
Speaker 1: I do has is framed in that context. It's it's
Speaker 1: a talk about you can trump derangement syndrome. I think
Speaker 1: you got one with No. With California.
Speaker 2: First of all, it's not it's not new to have
Speaker 2: someone from California to run for the presidency. We just
Speaker 2: beat someone from California presidency. California is California is to
Speaker 2: politics to the Democrat Party as Florida, it's our party.
Speaker 2: You guys have the speaker that the former Speaker of
Speaker 2: the House, Nancy Pelosi, right, you have you have a
Speaker 2: lot of the ascendent political voices come out of the state.
Speaker 2: So it's not derangement syndrome. It's no, it's knowing your
Speaker 2: enemy and looking at the horizon and understand what's coming.
Speaker 2: But anyway, if I were to give you or B
Speaker 2: and C level stuff, it just gets if you have
Speaker 2: to go to war with your own party on three
Speaker 2: major things, you got to say we are not going
Speaker 2: to do this illegal immigration thing anymore, which includes like
Speaker 2: are you going to work with ICE?
Speaker 1: We do work with us. So let me by the way,
Speaker 1: I want to make sure people do this. We we
Speaker 1: have been I in fact directly we actually put out
Speaker 1: the data. I was actually reached out to the administration.
Speaker 1: So are you not aware that California coordinates and cooperates
Speaker 1: with all CDCR releases over ten thousand? Explain the state
Speaker 1: you got the state wide sanctuary state and yeah, which
Speaker 1: in the state wide framework allows us to work as
Speaker 1: it relates to issues of criminals and coordinating the release
Speaker 1: of criminals from our federal or from our state prison
Speaker 1: populate prison system. We coordinate with ICE on the deportation.
Speaker 1: We've done that over ten thousand times since I've been governor.
Speaker 1: We're not denying access, we're not denying coordination. I'm glad
Speaker 1: to criminal That's why for criminals sanctuary, Well, I mean
Speaker 1: it was never would.
Speaker 2: I would say, if you break into the country illegally
Speaker 2: in eight USD thirteen twenty five, is of breaking.
Speaker 1: Up I get all right, civil not criminal, but it
Speaker 1: is a federal lot. But I get it.
Speaker 2: So what I'm saying, So, by the way, if if
Speaker 2: you're serious about moditating the party eight USC one third,
Speaker 2: three two five vast majority Americans.
Speaker 1: So we're gonna just go through.
Speaker 2: No, No, I can Jordan.
Speaker 1: Americans want mass deportations. It's just the thing until until
Speaker 1: they don't. Well, okay, that's my humble opinion, until they
Speaker 1: don't okay, ten years. You might be right in taxes,
Speaker 1: I don't buy it. You might well, but at the
Speaker 1: moment you're right.
Speaker 2: You might be right. The number bardo, we'll see number two.
Speaker 2: We mentioned the Trands stuff. It's in affront all of
Speaker 2: our senses. It's out of control. You.
Speaker 1: I don't believe it in a fundamental it's not just sports,
Speaker 1: it's not stole. You just don't.
Speaker 2: I mean, get back to Charlie Kirk's US are separate
Speaker 2: than the political advice. Again, but if you'd like me
Speaker 2: to should do a whole No, I get it, Charlie
Speaker 2: Kirk asked me, anything, and you could show up to
Speaker 2: cal State North.
Speaker 1: I've already got twenty five, by the way, talks of
Speaker 1: what your feelings are. So actually that was a question,
Speaker 1: a question I didn't need to know.
Speaker 2: If you want it, it's fine. I just don't think
Speaker 2: that's the best use of that time. But on the
Speaker 2: political advice is that Americans increasingly believe that their good
Speaker 2: heartedness and charitable nature towards the LGBT issue has overblown,
Speaker 2: especially with youth sports, youth curriculum, and the chemical castration
Speaker 2: of our kids. When it comes to this medical arity,
Speaker 2: and you seem that you want to really I encourage you,
Speaker 2: governor to learn about some of the butchery under the
Speaker 2: guys of healthcare that is happening under chemical castration in
Speaker 2: this state and in other states. We don't spend a
Speaker 2: lot of time on that, but the American people are
Speaker 2: overwhelmingly against it. They're overwhelming against it.
Speaker 1: No, I think we have to be more sensitized to
Speaker 1: that youth.
Speaker 2: Should be off limits. I think that's that's the political
Speaker 2: direction things are going. You might be right on deportations.
Speaker 2: I know I'm right on this. I know that this
Speaker 2: is this issue is picking up steam there is no
Speaker 2: good counter to it. The CAST Report, the United Kingdom
Speaker 2: Cast Report, the NHS came out and said there's no
Speaker 2: good reason to ever operate surgically on a young person.
Speaker 2: You can pre have the problem. Puberty is a solution.
Speaker 2: I think, I encourage, but I appreciate you, but I'm
Speaker 2: saying politically, it's a super turbocharged issue that is kicking
Speaker 2: the tail of Democrats. The third one that is quality
Speaker 2: of life is quality of life. I agree with you
Speaker 2: on this one especially, but like I mean, look, no,
Speaker 2: I know.
Speaker 1: Out of control, unacceptable.
Speaker 2: Issues of just you know where I'm going with this.
Speaker 2: Why is it you were able to clean it up
Speaker 2: for gigiping guys.
Speaker 1: That was the dunest thing I've ever by the way,
Speaker 1: you guys weaponized that. I saw them in twenty five things.
Speaker 1: The thing that was that was, you know what, I
Speaker 1: will happily, happily revert back to your can I at
Speaker 1: as weaponized in this case weaponized? Can in this case
Speaker 1: can I weapon.
Speaker 2: I guess itulous give me a point, but governed me
Speaker 2: with all due respect. I saw a beautiful picture of
Speaker 2: San Francisco that looked like Singapore, by the way, and
Speaker 2: then leaves and the walking Dead come down.
Speaker 1: By the way, it was I pack you had dozens
Speaker 1: and dozens of foreign leaders in California is not San Francisco.
Speaker 1: But I am the governor of California, the mayor of California.
Speaker 2: You want the mayor you ever were the mayor, But
Speaker 2: I just want to say that, But you have to
Speaker 2: admit there's it's emblematic as something that if enough important
Speaker 2: people show up, it can get clean. So why not
Speaker 2: make it clean all the time?
Speaker 1: That's exactly, by the way, that's my energy. I think
Speaker 1: you've missed a lot of my press conferences. I've been
Speaker 1: saying that to all these mayors. But the state vision
Speaker 1: is realized at the look at the level, it's about accountability, transparency.
Speaker 1: If you can't clean up the streets, we're going to
Speaker 1: redirect the money. He seems to be more moderating. The
Speaker 1: progress is being made. By the way, what's going on
Speaker 1: with homelessness and all these red states. You're seeing it
Speaker 1: through the roof eighteen the country. I'm not here defending
Speaker 1: every red state, but I'm making the point. This is
Speaker 1: I'm sure there's a lot of daughters in a Quali.
Speaker 1: Life's huge, right, Yeah, And then like, look the number
Speaker 1: one thing, which I know you're gonna agree with, and
Speaker 1: I'm sure you'll have a super slick response, right, that's
Speaker 1: that's about half true, but which is a three quarter
Speaker 1: the cost of housing average home in California here her
Speaker 1: fifty thousand bucks. I like what you said about black
Speaker 1: Rock So yeah, I mean I but that was interesting
Speaker 1: to me. I think that is.
Speaker 2: But again, that's not a majority of house purchasing. About
Speaker 2: one in four houses bought by private equity. Would you
Speaker 2: agree to say that black Rocks should not be able
Speaker 2: to own homes in California?
Speaker 1: I think, and then turning around and rent it.
Speaker 2: It's insane.
Speaker 1: This is a huge problem.
Speaker 2: You just to post a bill in the California state.
Speaker 1: We've had one and didn't get very far last year,
Speaker 1: and there's more conversations.
Speaker 2: Right, tennillion dollars fund shouldn't be able to come in.
Speaker 2: It's not just black Rocks specifically, mass mass asset managers
Speaker 2: that have a billion dollars fifty billion dollars ascent our
Speaker 2: management are now competing against our college grad from by
Speaker 2: the way, cal State Fullerton.
Speaker 1: I lovely you say this, by the way, just in
Speaker 1: that spirit don't you agree. One of the dough things
Speaker 1: should be dealing with the one and a half billion
Speaker 1: dollars of subsidies on carried interest.
Speaker 2: Oh, I carried interest. I think it's a huge problem.
Speaker 2: And by the way, you know President Trump has proposed
Speaker 2: in his tax building.
Speaker 1: Everybody proposes it all the time, but in actually, I mean.
Speaker 2: Joe Biden, get rid of carried interest. That is the
Speaker 2: holy rail of private equity. You know that, right, carried interest.
Speaker 2: I mean, I get it.
Speaker 1: But let's go back to hide.
Speaker 2: By the way, you're gonna have a revolt in Palo
Speaker 2: Alto if you get rid of carried interests. Yeah, they're
Speaker 2: going to light torches and like run to Sacramento.
Speaker 1: On the issue of housing, you couldn't be more right.
Speaker 1: It's the original sin in the state of California, affordability period,
Speaker 1: full stop. And it has more more impact on the
Speaker 1: issue of homelessness than any other issue because of the
Speaker 1: cost of living. By the way, we had one hundred
Speaker 1: and eighty thousand people in two thousand and five, twenty
Speaker 1: years ago on the streets and homeless and our point
Speaker 1: in time count so this is hardly unique to moderate California. Help.
Speaker 1: It's been a long term issue and housing is at
Speaker 1: the court.
Speaker 2: We ran the problem. But here, help me understand this.
Speaker 2: You guys control the House, the Senate with suit majorities.
Speaker 2: You control everything. Why can't you fix it? You said
Speaker 2: you were going to build three and a half million homes.
Speaker 2: You're building like one hundred and eleven five O.
Speaker 1: There is something called a pandemic that may have had
Speaker 1: a little impact. Issues of interest rates may have had
Speaker 1: a little impact. And housing production guys.
Speaker 2: Are outpacing every other So hold on, hold on.
Speaker 1: Except forty two secre reform bills created a housing accountability.
Speaker 2: Has it work?
Speaker 1: And we're making We're making big progress. We've done all
Speaker 1: that zoning. We've been pounding in this space. There's no
Speaker 1: administration in modern California history that's done more to reform
Speaker 1: the housing space and the regulatory space as it relates
Speaker 1: to the issue of housing. The biggest challenge right now
Speaker 1: is nimbism. The biggest challenge we have is local planning
Speaker 1: and zoning. And that's why we've been very grippy. Is
Speaker 1: a disaster that I mean, and so I have a
Speaker 1: Ymbi mindset on all this stuff. I'm in the front
Speaker 1: lines of this. Your friends. They are your friends down
Speaker 1: in Huntington Beach that I'm suing. Their conservators are the
Speaker 1: whole city council, whole day. They love you.
Speaker 2: They literally the MAGA ninety nine point ninety living and
Speaker 2: who's had I'm one of the one all of your towns.
Speaker 1: We're suing them because of their rank, nimbiism. We have
Speaker 1: been very aggressive in this space. I'm waiting for one
Speaker 1: big thing we all are waiting for, and I think
Speaker 1: it had the biggest, perhaps one of the biggest impacts
Speaker 1: that we don't focus on enough. In the last election,
Speaker 1: I was insure interest rates as interest rates.
Speaker 2: I believe there wasn't.
Speaker 1: And you're going to see an explosion of housing production.
Speaker 1: I'm very confident in that in California.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you also might see an increase in housing prices.
Speaker 2: Of course. Well it's to me, it's it's all to supply,
Speaker 2: right ek one on one, supply them. Yeah, it's just
Speaker 2: the biggest issue in our biggest California Hawaii have the
Speaker 2: two highest housing prices in the country. Hawaii has an
Speaker 2: obvious excuse they only have so much land. No, you
Speaker 2: guys don't have a lack of one.
Speaker 1: By the way, I haven't been governor for a century, Okay,
Speaker 1: I mean Jesus, I mean whole hold on. But six years.
Speaker 2: And by the way, no excuse, I get it. You
Speaker 2: can't take credit from all the outsets. You know, number
Speaker 2: one AI, number one nanotechnology AI is. But you also
Speaker 2: got to take responsive for.
Speaker 1: Some of the more more novel I take a little
Speaker 1: more credit of the generative. Yeah, thirty time to.
Speaker 2: Balance both both the credit and the and the blame.
Speaker 2: But I appreciate but quality of life, right, so we
Speaker 2: So when I talked to a college kid, one of
Speaker 2: the reasons they saw Trump as a vessel for a
Speaker 2: better life is that under President Trump those first four years,
Speaker 2: we saw a material increase in their livelihood, wages, easier
Speaker 2: to buy a home four years, four years, Like just
Speaker 2: the facts are the average wage to be able to
Speaker 2: own a home in LA to be able to own
Speaker 2: a home, Oh yeah, it used to be eight seventy
Speaker 2: five thousand dollars years. Now it's one hundred and forty
Speaker 2: five thousand dollars a year. So I mean what it does,
Speaker 2: and this is again, it's creating this kind of belief
Speaker 2: system of Russian serfs of a generation that will never
Speaker 2: have the material American dream that their parents once enjoy it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, And I look and I think it's a
Speaker 1: full circle on this conversation where you began by identifying
Speaker 1: circle back. No, but it's a point. But the point
Speaker 1: you're making, Scott Galloway and others have been making as
Speaker 1: it relates to this generation. Yes, he's spot on on this,
Speaker 1: and I think there's there's so much validity to and
Speaker 1: you recognizing that problem and how one it's a diagnosing.
Speaker 1: It's one thing.
Speaker 2: But and President Trump as well, he deserves credit. And
Speaker 2: I mean I think, yeah, he's he's there's I mean,
Speaker 2: I'm going to get you to say the words.
Speaker 1: By the way, I just spent almost ninety minutes with
Speaker 1: him in the Oval office a couple of weeks ago.
Speaker 2: Isn't he the greatest?
Speaker 1: And you know, I think it was the first Democrat
Speaker 1: invited in.
Speaker 2: And Trump too got to admit, there's so magical that
Speaker 2: guy Joe Biden couldn't do five minutes.
Speaker 1: By the way, I did almost ninety minutes with Biden
Speaker 1: right before he left in the Oval that I remember.
Speaker 1: By the way, that'd be a hell of a book.
Speaker 1: One hundred and eighty minutes I should do a book
Speaker 1: of the two. That book mark, by the way, percent
Speaker 1: was Oh, come on, god, just a fact.
Speaker 2: It's it's just you could do you think there was
Speaker 2: any mental there's okay, no, no, seriously, you went around
Speaker 2: the country being like, he's I'll take him at one hundred.
Speaker 1: There was one exception and I and the debate that no, no, no.
Speaker 1: Before the debate, I was about to say uh. And
Speaker 1: that was the big fundraiser down in LA where I
Speaker 1: saw a different the Clooney and Clooney called Jack black right,
Speaker 1: But it was not that was but you know, so
Speaker 1: much of that focus was all right, he just got
Speaker 1: back from Europe. But that was the one one time
Speaker 1: we don't need to get it.
Speaker 2: But I'm not sure, but I just say, Governor, I'm
Speaker 2: just on that one topic we saw with our own
Speaker 2: eyes for three years and the media told us no, no,
Speaker 2: he's perfectly fine. Yeah, And then we saw the debate,
Speaker 2: and look, it makes us not trust our leaders when
Speaker 2: we say everyone is perfectly fine. It's the empers five.
Speaker 1: Are you seeing any mental decline in Donald Trump?
Speaker 2: Right now? I see the more sharp aque. Do you
Speaker 2: tell me you sat with them in the Oval office
Speaker 2: for ninety minutes. The guy has a memory.
Speaker 1: I'm asking. I mean, I know, I'm just I'm just asking,
Speaker 1: you know, I think he's how often do you talk
Speaker 1: talk to Trump?
Speaker 2: By the way, once or twice a week?
Speaker 1: Is he checking for advice ors you you give him too?
Speaker 2: It depends if there's something I want to talk to
Speaker 2: him about. But I mean, he's just the machine. He'll
Speaker 2: take every call. You gotta give him credit and amazing.
Speaker 2: He'll take every cold thing's big, right, It's amazing. And
Speaker 2: he'll listen to every idea. He'll joust it out, he'll
Speaker 2: talk about it. He always goes back to what I
Speaker 2: promised the voters.
Speaker 1: What was the last idea? You gave him?
Speaker 2: The last idea?
Speaker 1: Always like, mister President, here's here's what you need, or
Speaker 1: here's the thought. I'm sad.
Speaker 2: Actually it was interesting. I said, I don't think Canada
Speaker 2: should be the fifty first date. We already have California,
Speaker 2: and we have enough libs in our country. Jesus on
Speaker 2: that Charlie Kirk shall not take the Lord's name in
Speaker 2: vain No.
Speaker 1: On that that. I thank you.
Speaker 2: This was new.
Speaker 1: This has been Gavin Newsom for uh think this was fun.
Speaker 2: Thanks man