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Speaker 1: This is Unbreakable with Jay Glazer, a mental health podcast

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Speaker 1: helping you out of the gray and into the blue.

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Speaker 1: Now here's Jay Glazer. Welcome into Unbreakable, a mental health

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Speaker 1: podcast with Jay Glazer. Luckily I'm Jay Glazer. That's why

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Speaker 1: I'm sitting here today. And you know, doing this podcast

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Speaker 1: allows me to meet people I never would have met.

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Speaker 1: And that's the one thing about living in the gray.

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Speaker 1: It's really attached me to people that I never would

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Speaker 1: have come across in life. And you know, me opening

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Speaker 1: up talking about this, I didn't know how many teammates

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Speaker 1: I really had out there. So for so many years

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Speaker 1: I just sat there and suffering silence and just you know,

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Speaker 1: hit it and created this other character about myself, the

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Speaker 1: glaze that you all see on on television, um to

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Speaker 1: hide what was really going on behind my eyes. But

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Speaker 1: it turns out I got a lot more teammates out there,

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Speaker 1: and welcoming in one of them right now who reached

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Speaker 1: out to me after one of these podcasts, and man,

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Speaker 1: it was just so moving and touching and really for

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Speaker 1: everybody out there who's afraid to open up, this shows

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Speaker 1: you how alone you're not when you do let yourself

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Speaker 1: be so vulnerable, and with that, I'm gonna welcome in

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Speaker 1: my dude, Christian Lee Navarro. You may know him from

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Speaker 1: Thirteen Reasons Why, you may have know him from a

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Speaker 1: host of other things a long time after, and he's

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Speaker 1: now my new teammate. So welcome in and kind of,

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Speaker 1: you know, let's give a little background first before we

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Speaker 1: get into you know, what prompted you to reach out.

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Speaker 1: I think it was after the Frank Grillo episode, right.

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Speaker 1: My dad had sent me that episode, and he had

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Speaker 1: been my dad, Mena Varo, who's a cop, retired cop

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Speaker 1: now twenty years in New York. He kept telling me,

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Speaker 1: you gotta listen to this podcast. And honestly, I knew

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Speaker 1: what the subject matter was, and I don't think I

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Speaker 1: was at a place to listen to it. I was

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Speaker 1: still in a fragile place, right. I knew that it

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Speaker 1: would make me look in the mirror and make me

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Speaker 1: think about things and and help ultimately, right, And I

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Speaker 1: think I was sort of in in a place where

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Speaker 1: I didn't I didn't know I wanted to help yet,

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Speaker 1: and I had sort of gotten off my ask final

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Speaker 1: least try to get back in the gym after suffering

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Speaker 1: with depression, and anxiety. And I'm listening to this podcast

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Speaker 1: and I'm listening to Frank, who I admire as an actor.

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Speaker 1: I've seen him countless things. He's a certified badass March

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Speaker 1: law in his boxer, UM, just a real man's man's right.

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Speaker 1: And I'm I'm I'm listening to him talk about his

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Speaker 1: his friend's suicide and dealing with his mental health as

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Speaker 1: a as a result of that, and after that, and

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Speaker 1: opening up about his journey generally in the business, and

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Speaker 1: you with him and really feeling this teammate vibe right,

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Speaker 1: And I thought, I need to reach out immediately and

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Speaker 1: and let this guy know that he's making a difference

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Speaker 1: in my life personally, right, just in case. You know,

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Speaker 1: sometimes whatever we do is as and I will consider

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Speaker 1: you an artist, my friend. Um, as artists, whatever we do,

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Speaker 1: sometimes we put that out there into the world and

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Speaker 1: we don't know what's coming back at us. And I

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Speaker 1: thought I got to reach out and say thank you,

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Speaker 1: because I did feel included, I felt heard. It was Um.

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Speaker 1: It was the first time in a while that I thought, man,

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Speaker 1: they really get you know. I'm in therapy. I've been

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Speaker 1: in therapy, but it's it's good to have the validation

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Speaker 1: amongst your peers and people you look up to this way,

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Speaker 1: and I think your show validates a lot of people's journeys.

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Speaker 1: What led you to be in such a dark place? Well,

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Speaker 1: it's a it's two fold, man. I I took this

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Speaker 1: incredible ride with this show Thirteen Reasons Why, you know,

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Speaker 1: number one show on the planet for a while. Half

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Speaker 1: a billion people tuned into this thing on Netflix. For

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Speaker 1: for people who don't know, it's a show about suicide. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's it's a show about suicide prevention. It's to show

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Speaker 1: us a show about mental health awareness. And whilst on

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Speaker 1: this show, I I all over the world that people

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Speaker 1: who shared their stories right, and and it was a

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Speaker 1: privilege to be in that position. A lot of people don't.

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Speaker 1: They didn't feel like they had anyone else who could understand.

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Speaker 1: And because I portrayed this character. Uh and my character

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Speaker 1: on the show is is sort of a little bit

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Speaker 1: more even Keel, and he's there for everyone, you know.

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Speaker 1: I they felt like they could bring their their pain

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Speaker 1: to me and I would listen to it and you know,

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Speaker 1: really empathize. But I never during this four or five

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Speaker 1: years we did this thing, I never once stopped thought

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Speaker 1: about me, my mental health and where I was. I

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Speaker 1: was just writing this high. You know. For ten years

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Speaker 1: I was auditioning and getting bits here and there, and

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Speaker 1: then this thing happened and thinking, fuck, it's the dream,

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Speaker 1: right to see it. I'm on the top of the mountain.

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Speaker 1: And then it ended, right, the show ended. Pandemic happens

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Speaker 1: two years. No one's calling, nothing's happening. Um And I

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Speaker 1: think what I allowed to happen was this thing that

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Speaker 1: I loved and still love so much. I let it

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Speaker 1: become me. I let it become the thing that defines me.

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Speaker 1: So when I didn't have work coming in, I didn't

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Speaker 1: understand it. I'm watching people who are you know, they

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Speaker 1: say comparison is the thief of joy, right, and social

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Speaker 1: media screws us all it does, it does, and that's

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Speaker 1: the era we live in, right, it's in now era.

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Speaker 1: It's a social media era. I'm watching all of my contemporaries, Excel.

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Speaker 1: You know what I'm going, Well, I I know, I

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Speaker 1: work harder, I have the work ethic. I know, why

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Speaker 1: isn't it happening for me? You know? At the same time,

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Speaker 1: I met this woman who was everything I had ever

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Speaker 1: asked for in a person, and I allowed the one

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Speaker 1: to poison the other. You know, my I had never

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Speaker 1: dealt with depression, anxiety, I certainly never had self confidence issues,

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Speaker 1: and all of these things were compiling on top of

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Speaker 1: each other. Whilst I'm trying to hold on to this

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Speaker 1: person who was and you know, I still love her

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Speaker 1: very much, but I couldn't do it. I allowed that

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Speaker 1: to poison the one, you know, one to poison the other,

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Speaker 1: and it took me to places I didn't know I

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Speaker 1: could go in that regard, and for the first time,

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Speaker 1: I realized, holy shit, I'm not I worked on the

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Speaker 1: show and I never once thought about my own mental health,

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Speaker 1: and never they offered it to us, you know, Universal,

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Speaker 1: excuse me, Paramount and Netflix. They we had counselors on set,

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Speaker 1: they had research, but yeah, yeah, we had I mean

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Speaker 1: everything from therapy, dogs and psychiatrists. I call it everything

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Speaker 1: diligent about taking care of the actors as we were

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Speaker 1: trying to tell his story. But I never thought I

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Speaker 1: needed it. I think part of that is growing up

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Speaker 1: the way you grow up as young man in the society,

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Speaker 1: and I think part of that is I really felt

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Speaker 1: like I was on a high right, I and I

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Speaker 1: didn't feel bad until it was taken away from me.

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Speaker 1: And you gotta look in the mirror and who are

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Speaker 1: you if all that ship's gone? Right? That's that's the

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Speaker 1: tough question I was coming up against. But but it's

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Speaker 1: also interesting because your character, right, you're you're basically there

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Speaker 1: to spread the message and the word of why someone

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Speaker 1: else committed suicide, and then the rest of the world

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Speaker 1: comes to you like you're really that person. That's a

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Speaker 1: big burden take on in the real world, and I

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Speaker 1: take it on here doing a mental health podcast. People

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Speaker 1: act like I'm your therapist. I'm not. I'm just the

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Speaker 1: dude who's fucked up, who's learning to be good with

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Speaker 1: this fuck upness, and God bless me with the ability

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Speaker 1: to communicate about it. And I think that, you know,

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Speaker 1: there's this this great line I heard recently, the pressure

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Speaker 1: is a privilege, um, and it's it's hard sometimes to

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Speaker 1: really see that, but it is true. Now, the flip

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Speaker 1: side of that is these people think that you have

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Speaker 1: it all figured out too right there coming to you,

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Speaker 1: You're saying, this is my story, thank you for helping

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Speaker 1: me get through this, and then retrospectively, I'm going out.

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Speaker 1: I'm just as fucked up as all of you, right,

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Speaker 1: I'm just get through this thing we call life, just

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Speaker 1: like everybody else. Um and still, I was just in

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Speaker 1: England at a convent, thirteen thousand fans, you know, meeting

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Speaker 1: coming up saying hi, thank you, telling me there's stories,

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Speaker 1: and I got this this letter in this lady handed

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Speaker 1: me a six page letter telling her what she's been through.

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Speaker 1: And that's like, that's a that's a regular occurrence because

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Speaker 1: of the show we were on. But it is it's

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Speaker 1: a bit of a burden. Uh. And you know, you

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Speaker 1: take on, if you're empathetic, you take on what's happened

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Speaker 1: and you and you really live with it. And so

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Speaker 1: it can be it can be a bit much, but

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Speaker 1: it is a privilege. Also, you know, listen, you know

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Speaker 1: one of the things because you're talking. Also, look, doing

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Speaker 1: what you do is hard to what I do, because

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Speaker 1: you're you know, kind of beholding to what somebody else

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Speaker 1: thinks of you. Right, that's how you get your job,

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Speaker 1: which fucking sucks. Right. So I always marveled at actors saying, like, man,

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Speaker 1: the most successful ones have been rejected ninety nine of

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Speaker 1: the time. A lot of rejection doing for me to

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Speaker 1: get to where I got to the first eleven years

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Speaker 1: of my career. People who know this, and I wrote

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Speaker 1: this in my book and Breakable. I was rejected for

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Speaker 1: eleven years. I was making nine thousand, four and fifty

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Speaker 1: a year, live in New York City, try to out

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Speaker 1: work the world. I just decided I'd be rejected more

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Speaker 1: than anybody else and I'd be relentless in my pursuit.

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Speaker 1: But man, that rejection, folks, it sucks with the like,

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Speaker 1: be careful what you wish were when you want to

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Speaker 1: get to this level, because it definitely fucks with you

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Speaker 1: behind your rib gage, between your ears, and it gets

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Speaker 1: to you. But I'm in a different case. Once I

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Speaker 1: got somewhere, I'm there. You have to constantly do it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: It's it's really strange. It's the only business where you

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Speaker 1: gotta constantly prove yourself. For instance, I'm this I was

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Speaker 1: talking to you earlier on in the process of in

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Speaker 1: the running for this show. It's been six months I've

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Speaker 1: been auditioning for this thing, and uh, I think to myself,

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Speaker 1: there's already fifty sixty seventy hours of my work on TV,

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Speaker 1: you know, And I started in one of the in

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Speaker 1: this show, and it just it doesn't matter, None of

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Speaker 1: it matters. You just gotta show up and prove yourself

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Speaker 1: every day. And if you're not mentally tough, if you

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Speaker 1: don't take care of your mental health and check in

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Speaker 1: with yourself and check in with your therapists and with

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Speaker 1: your friends, and conversations like these, I mean, yourself with plummets.

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Speaker 1: And I was able to ride that high and never

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Speaker 1: had self confidence issues. But then my ex left and

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Speaker 1: that was really the trigger for for all the spiral, right,

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Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden, I started going in,

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Speaker 1: I worth its. Self confidence starts creeping in, and then

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Speaker 1: the audition started becoming desperate, right, because you become beholding

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Speaker 1: to this job. I need this next job instead of

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Speaker 1: it'd be nice if I get this, I really need

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Speaker 1: this thing, and you can feel that desperation and it

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Speaker 1: becomes a domino effect. And yeah, it's it's tough to

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Speaker 1: deal with the nose, but that's the business really, And

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Speaker 1: I think also, look, you kind of got hit with

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Speaker 1: something where a lot of us get hit with as

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Speaker 1: we get success. Like I think I was happier mental

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Speaker 1: health wise when I was broken. Yeah, I know, people

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Speaker 1: after they are gonna go shut the funk up, Glazer.

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Speaker 1: You don't know what's I've been on both sides, like

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Speaker 1: I've had. Right when I was making my ninety four

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Speaker 1: bucks a year, I had to decide, is my electricity

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Speaker 1: to get it turned off this this month from my

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Speaker 1: guests gonna get turned off? And am I just gonna

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Speaker 1: get fine for not paying my rent? Am I gonna

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Speaker 1: have to worry about getting evicted? I knew my phone

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Speaker 1: bill how to stay on because I'm an investigative, you know,

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Speaker 1: NFL reporter, so I that have to stay on. But

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Speaker 1: I had nothing to lose, so I didn't give a fuck, right,

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Speaker 1: and now I have so much to lose. And saying

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Speaker 1: with you, you've you've hit that peak, You've had that pinnacle.

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Speaker 1: Now all of a sudden you have to try to lose.

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Speaker 1: You start, like you're saying, almost acting from a place

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Speaker 1: of fear of losing something instead of just being relentless

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Speaker 1: because you have nothing to lose. I think it's a

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Speaker 1: journey that every actor probably goes on, and everyone in

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Speaker 1: this business probably goes on. Right, There's always another a mountain,

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Speaker 1: And I don't think you know that as a young

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Speaker 1: person just trying to get to that peak, and then

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Speaker 1: once you get there, you know there's just as many

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Speaker 1: oh shit, I gotta keep climbing. I thought I worked

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Speaker 1: ten years to get to that point to have that show.

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Speaker 1: It happens, and now it's like, okay, but I'm only

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Speaker 1: only one. There's another ten years in front of me.

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Speaker 1: I gotta keep working and keep going. And I think

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Speaker 1: it's normal to have those roadblocks and have those pitfalls.

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Speaker 1: I just wasn't prepared. I didn't have the tools. Even

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Speaker 1: though I had been working on a show that was

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Speaker 1: giving me the tools, I didn't have the tools. I

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Speaker 1: wasn't ready to use it if I had them. So

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Speaker 1: for people are first time listeners this show. I'm hosting

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Speaker 1: the show because I have what I call the gray.

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Speaker 1: I have depression anxiety, a d D, bipolar. I got

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Speaker 1: it all but my depression anxiety. I had a choice.

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Speaker 1: I could let my depression anxiety tap me out, or

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Speaker 1: I could say, Okay, you know what, I'm gonna use

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Speaker 1: it to motivate me for something else. So I'm not

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Speaker 1: able to know what it feels like to love myself

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Speaker 1: in the inside out. I just never felt worthy of it,

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Speaker 1: and that's what my depression anxiety told me. So it

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Speaker 1: forced me to go do all these big, great things

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Speaker 1: to get love from the outside in. And I hope

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Speaker 1: they met at the middle. But when I got there,

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Speaker 1: you know, it was the first every minute I meant

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Speaker 1: a breaking news guy in this country when the internet

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Speaker 1: thing first came out, which I think it's gonna take off.

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Speaker 1: I think it's gonna be hit one day, give us

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Speaker 1: some time. And man, all of a sudden, you know,

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Speaker 1: I got my first six figure gig and seven figure gigging. Man,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna Television Hall of Fame now with foxing Able Sunday.

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Speaker 1: And I thought it'd be all rainbows and unicorns when

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Speaker 1: I got there, and it wasn't. If you don't know

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Speaker 1: how to love yourself on the inside out, if you're

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Speaker 1: not able to live in the blue like something I

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Speaker 1: stopped to do, all the successful world doesn't get you there.

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Speaker 1: Do you not know now the work you've done it yourself?

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Speaker 1: Has it always been there for you? Or is it

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Speaker 1: as a result of how tumultuous your career has been.

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Speaker 1: I think that all particularly actors were all sort of

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Speaker 1: bastards and broken things. Right. I think when I analyzed

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Speaker 1: why I got into this thing, I'm a pretty smart guy.

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Speaker 1: I had a lot of options in high school, going

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Speaker 1: into college. This seemed crazy to my parents, to myself

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Speaker 1: even to get into this field. But I think I

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Speaker 1: loved it because I got to be other people. I

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Speaker 1: got to explore other aspects of humanity. I wasn't really

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Speaker 1: happy with who I was all the way back, right,

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Speaker 1: because that's what That's what got me into it. And

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Speaker 1: then I went to college at Conservatory of an acting Conservatory,

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Speaker 1: where I continued that that that sort of through line.

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Speaker 1: I just got to be other people. I got to

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Speaker 1: explore being other people, and I was good at it. So, Okay,

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Speaker 1: now I can make the living at other people. I

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Speaker 1: don't ever have to be myself. So I was running

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Speaker 1: away from myself. I think since I was a kid,

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Speaker 1: I've been running away from myself. And I'll tell you

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Speaker 1: what it was. That the last season of Thirteen Reasons Why,

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Speaker 1: I had a director. She came in for three episodes.

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Speaker 1: I think Brenda Strong, incredible woman, incredible director, and I

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Speaker 1: had all of these things that really started to hurl

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Speaker 1: in on me at the same time, and I was

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Speaker 1: working on a scene with her, having a really hard time,

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Speaker 1: and she pulled me aside and she said, everything that

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Speaker 1: you've been has gotten you to this point, and it

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Speaker 1: served you, but it can't serve you anymore. And that's life.

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Speaker 1: You gotta learn who you're going to be now. And

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Speaker 1: it was birth chattering to me because I was the

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Speaker 1: Puerto Rican actor from the Bronx who left, moved to London,

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Speaker 1: got classically trained, came back and worked harder than everybody else.

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Speaker 1: That's all I cared about. That's that's all I gave

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Speaker 1: a ship about, was being the hardest work in the room,

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Speaker 1: like Rock said, and proving myself every day as a

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Speaker 1: minority in this business. Um, it didn't matter anymore. All

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Speaker 1: of that didn't matter. And I had to figure out

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Speaker 1: who am I if I'm not this to in this role,

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Speaker 1: doing this room, in this room, you know. And that's

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Speaker 1: when I really that's when I really started to kick

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Speaker 1: in that I had been running from myself for all

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Speaker 1: these years and I wasn't trying to be me. And

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Speaker 1: so that's deep. We all have a chance to be

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Speaker 1: a therapist. So you never know. And what I mean

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Speaker 1: by that is you don't have to be a license

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Speaker 1: therapist to teach somebody something for so for her to

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Speaker 1: come up with that, like you never know what lies

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Speaker 1: around next Tuesday, and to hear that to change you.

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Speaker 1: So when you heard that, what step did you take

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Speaker 1: to help you from the inside out? The show ended.

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Speaker 1: I moved down to Los Angeles. We shot in San

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Speaker 1: Francisco for four years, five years, and I had moved

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Speaker 1: down to l A. And I delayed it right. I

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Speaker 1: had looked in the mirror and I said, it'll come

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Speaker 1: to me in my own time. It'll come to me

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Speaker 1: in my own time. Um. And then I met a

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Speaker 1: woman and it's supplanted the therapy that I needed, but

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Speaker 1: all of my energy into that. We need that outside love. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I do the same thing, and it wos up every

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Speaker 1: relationship I have exactly. That's exactly what happened to me.

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Speaker 1: I didn't with that I needed to do. I focused

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Speaker 1: on this relationship. I put a hundred percent into it. Um.

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Speaker 1: I funked up and made mistakes and all that, but

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Speaker 1: that one, that nagging thing of you don't have the work,

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Speaker 1: so you're nothing right. It's that voice in your and

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Speaker 1: your it's what you talk about sometimes too, having those

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Speaker 1: those sometimes friends sometimes enemies in our brain going you're

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Speaker 1: not good enough. Yeah, the roommates in your head. If

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Speaker 1: I had those roommates going, you know, yeah, you had

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Speaker 1: this thing, it's gone. What are you if you can't

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Speaker 1: do that again? You know, who are you if you

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Speaker 1: can't provide for this woman is relying on your responsible

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Speaker 1: You know that you're responsible for And that just kept

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Speaker 1: getting louder and louder and louder until depression and anxiety

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Speaker 1: really sunk in and she left because who the funk

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Speaker 1: wants to deal with that, you know? And then that's

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Speaker 1: what spearheaded me and I contacted an organization called Better Health.

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Speaker 1: Fantastic organization. They do all my therapy sessions, but you

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Speaker 1: get to choose your therapist, you get, I mean you can.

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Speaker 1: They're sponsor of this show. Oh so there you guys,

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Speaker 1: there you go. I reached talk to them and I

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Speaker 1: wrote them similarly. I reached out on Instagram and I said, listen,

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Speaker 1: I need help. I don't really feel like going through

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Speaker 1: the ordeal of going to one therapist isn't in my insurance.

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Speaker 1: Blah blah, blah blah blah, all this bullshit. You guys

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Speaker 1: seem like it will work for me. Day and I

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Speaker 1: worked together. They gave me a couple of months of

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Speaker 1: therapy and it was it became life changing. Wow, better help,

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Speaker 1: but absolutely saved my life at that point, I mean

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Speaker 1: I was ready. Wow. Yes, they are the sponsor of

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Speaker 1: the show, and it's incredibly you're you're saying this, it's

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Speaker 1: just um. But also look, it's so brave you. It's

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Speaker 1: braver for you to reach out to somebody or something

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Speaker 1: you don't know saying I need help. And I want

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Speaker 1: others to hear that also and say, look, i's two badasses,

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Speaker 1: like the two of us could say that that we

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Speaker 1: do this. You can't too, Like, no one's gonna question

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Speaker 1: your manhood. I think therapists are like coaches, right, So

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Speaker 1: like anything we do in the gym or athletically, there's

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Speaker 1: no shame on us talking to a coach and going

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Speaker 1: to a coach. In fact, you gotta go to a coach,

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Speaker 1: there shouldn't be any shame and us going to a

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Speaker 1: feelings coach, a mental coach, a you know, a coach

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Speaker 1: for what's behind our rib cage. So it's beautiful that

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Speaker 1: you did that. Man, I thank you. Yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you what it was that that spearheaded that

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Speaker 1: moment my dad showed up on my doorstep. My best

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Speaker 1: friend Jack commins, he hears from me all the time, right,

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Speaker 1: He hadn't heard from me in a couple of months,

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Speaker 1: and he reached out to my dad and he said, listen,

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Speaker 1: I'm worried about your son. And my dad hadn't heard

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Speaker 1: from me as frequently either, and that time they didn't

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Speaker 1: know this was happening. But during that time, I'm I'm

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Speaker 1: here doing everything but what I should be doing. Right,

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Speaker 1: I'm drinking too much, I'm started. I've always smoked weed,

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Speaker 1: but I started to really use it as a coping mechanism, right,

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Speaker 1: and not think about things. And I'd sit on this

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Speaker 1: couch and pretty systematically, day by day I'd go, what's

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Speaker 1: keeping me here? Um? Here? I mean a lie? And

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Speaker 1: I would reason out these things like, okay, whatever the

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Speaker 1: responsibility was, well, it'll be okay you know if I

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Speaker 1: if I go. And I started to really the thought

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Speaker 1: of suicide became real for me in a way that

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Speaker 1: it had never been. It became this thing that I thought, Um,

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Speaker 1: if I can just logic out all of the things

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Speaker 1: that would prevent me for doing this thing, I'd be

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Speaker 1: okay with it, right. And the last thing that was

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Speaker 1: standing in my way where my dogs. I got three

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Speaker 1: beautiful fucking dogs. Um, and I love him. I get

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Speaker 1: emotional when I talked about because during the darkest days

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Speaker 1: of my life, you know, it was waking up and going,

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Speaker 1: I gotta take care of this this thing that needs

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Speaker 1: me and love me that that wroll me through, you know.

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Speaker 1: But I had gotten to this place where I was

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Speaker 1: starting to go, you know, my dad will take care

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Speaker 1: of the dogs, he loves him, so and so will

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Speaker 1: take care of him he loves And the next day,

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Speaker 1: my dad showed up in l A unbeknownst to me.

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Speaker 1: You know, he's retired and just do that. So I

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Speaker 1: had to have these conversations with him. Right he saw me,

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Speaker 1: He knew his son, he knows what I looked like,

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Speaker 1: and um, I wasn't in a good place right and

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Speaker 1: he I saw him have the heartbreak of I can't

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Speaker 1: help him. And I never wanted to make my father

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Speaker 1: feel that way again because he's my superhero, you know.

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Speaker 1: And then that was it for me. I said Okay,

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Speaker 1: no more. You gotta pour your bootstraps up. And my

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Speaker 1: dad's always been of that ilk right, poor you bootstraps up,

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Speaker 1: go to work, be the best guy in the room.

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Speaker 1: Excellence is the best to turn against racism. And these

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Speaker 1: are all things he always taught me, you know. And

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Speaker 1: I saw him go I can't help him right now. Uh,

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Speaker 1: And I didn't like that feeling, and I thought, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I gotta come back out of this for him. But

425
00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:13,600
Speaker 1: because he taught me better. Wow, the fact that you

426
00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:16,840
Speaker 1: did a show about suicide and then you started thinking

427
00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:21,840
Speaker 1: about suicide, was there any correlation? Only in irony? You know,

428
00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:23,960
Speaker 1: I would think about it. That show was all about

429
00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:25,959
Speaker 1: having a reason to live, right and that there are

430
00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:29,879
Speaker 1: so many reasons to live um and and I was

431
00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:33,080
Speaker 1: sitting here eliminating those reasons. It was ironic, it was.

432
00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:36,560
Speaker 1: It was dark, a sort of sardonic kind of humor

433
00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:39,199
Speaker 1: to it. But ultimately I think havn't worked on That

434
00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:41,480
Speaker 1: show reminded me in the end of all of the

435
00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:43,480
Speaker 1: reasons I do have to stick around, right, And and

436
00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:46,960
Speaker 1: since you continue to create as you go on, we

437
00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:49,280
Speaker 1: all have reasons that Look, you know again, I have

438
00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:51,080
Speaker 1: a whole chapter on book about you never know what

439
00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:53,760
Speaker 1: lies around next Tuesday. You never know, like, because you're

440
00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:56,800
Speaker 1: still here, somebody may hear this podcast. You may save

441
00:19:56,840 --> 00:20:00,800
Speaker 1: somebody's life. You know, you'll definitely affect someone's life, and

442
00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:03,399
Speaker 1: you never know when that love can come around the

443
00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:05,879
Speaker 1: corner and how much you could be of service to people,

444
00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:08,320
Speaker 1: and when your next thing may happen, or you know,

445
00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:10,920
Speaker 1: like you may not give a funk whether it's acting

446
00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:13,160
Speaker 1: or not acting. That's something that could make you happy

447
00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:15,399
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, And we just gotta stick around

448
00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:18,440
Speaker 1: for those reasons. You say, you know, I'm always trying.

449
00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:21,359
Speaker 1: I'm trying to villainize suicide because it's it's too glorified

450
00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:24,359
Speaker 1: right now. And it's a little controversial that I say this,

451
00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:27,720
Speaker 1: but it's too often, you know, people look at and

452
00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:30,520
Speaker 1: they go, man, somebody else tells himself and everybody's loving

453
00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:32,320
Speaker 1: that person up, and you're saying, well, my life sucks

454
00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:34,680
Speaker 1: right now, I'll come You know, I don't feel loved,

455
00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:36,440
Speaker 1: so ship if I want to love, I'm gonna do

456
00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:38,680
Speaker 1: the same thing. And that's not our answer. That can't

457
00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:41,000
Speaker 1: be the answer. We've got to stick around, if not

458
00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:44,480
Speaker 1: for us, for everybody else, and it's hard to feel that, uh,

459
00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:46,640
Speaker 1: no one, you know, you get and I've gotten so

460
00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:49,360
Speaker 1: dark and suicidal myself, where no one's gonna miss me

461
00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:52,639
Speaker 1: if I'm God, Yes we will. We'll absolutely miss you

462
00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:55,280
Speaker 1: if you're gone. And and I think you know, I

463
00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:57,840
Speaker 1: mentioned that convention and these letters and things, and I

464
00:20:57,880 --> 00:20:59,600
Speaker 1: called my dad when I was in England. He was

465
00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:01,480
Speaker 1: in of the pool, and I said, you know, if

466
00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:04,919
Speaker 1: nothing else in my short time on this planet, I

467
00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:09,120
Speaker 1: have affected a lot of people and and save lives.

468
00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:12,159
Speaker 1: And all I'm doing is acting, you know, I'm just

469
00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:15,160
Speaker 1: I'm portraying characters, someone else's words. I'm giving my law

470
00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:17,359
Speaker 1: to it, but I'm just acting. But it's made a

471
00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:19,679
Speaker 1: difference in a lot of lives. And I'm telling them like,

472
00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:22,480
Speaker 1: that's that's enough, isn't it? You know that should be enough.

473
00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:25,520
Speaker 1: Right to be here and and someone else is made

474
00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:29,320
Speaker 1: better by your presence, by something you've done. It's easy

475
00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:32,520
Speaker 1: to forget that. But I'm lucky enough to get these

476
00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:36,520
Speaker 1: these flinders every day, so absolutely, And that's you know.

477
00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:38,440
Speaker 1: The other thing is when when people do and I

478
00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:40,800
Speaker 1: bring this up also like and I say this to

479
00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:42,959
Speaker 1: a lot of our combat veterans. When you know, I

480
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:45,200
Speaker 1: have a charity called m VP Emerging Vets and Players.

481
00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:47,720
Speaker 1: We work with a lot of combat vets and emerging

482
00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:50,440
Speaker 1: with X athletes, and it's a very high suicide read

483
00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:52,760
Speaker 1: amongst our vets. And you know, we've had a couple

484
00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:55,720
Speaker 1: of close calls, if you will, or a brother of

485
00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:58,960
Speaker 1: one of our members actually commit suicide, and the whole

486
00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:01,760
Speaker 1: rules crying. And I always say, hey, do you think

487
00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:04,840
Speaker 1: your brother right now is whatever afterlife you believe in?

488
00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:08,159
Speaker 1: Looking at seeing all of us crying, us in the

489
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:11,639
Speaker 1: room crying, celebrating, they were all prying like yes, or

490
00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:13,879
Speaker 1: do you think he's up there saying like, oh funck? No,

491
00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:15,800
Speaker 1: what did I do? I didn't want to do this

492
00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:17,680
Speaker 1: to these people. No, I didn't. I was just trying

493
00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:19,600
Speaker 1: to take my own pain out. I didn't mean to

494
00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:22,199
Speaker 1: do this to everybody else. And I think if we

495
00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:24,479
Speaker 1: kind of can look at it that way, I don't know,

496
00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:26,840
Speaker 1: maybe we can help prevent somebody else from doing that too.

497
00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:29,840
Speaker 1: I think at the heart of that Jay's is acts

498
00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:32,200
Speaker 1: of service, right, like the thing that holds us through

499
00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:35,280
Speaker 1: You might not ever be okay right were not we

500
00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:38,480
Speaker 1: might not ever be okay with sitting alone, right and

501
00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:44,440
Speaker 1: feeling okay, Like happiness is an illusion sometimes, right, I'll write,

502
00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:46,280
Speaker 1: I'm always gonna be in pain, I'm never just not.

503
00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:49,119
Speaker 1: I was born like this if it isn't about us,

504
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:51,399
Speaker 1: and in my thinking, it camp be about us, because

505
00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:54,880
Speaker 1: we're only here for a split second. Right, It's got

506
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:56,840
Speaker 1: to be about the impact you leave on other people,

507
00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:00,880
Speaker 1: and when in doubt helps someone out right, Like any

508
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:03,840
Speaker 1: time I've ever committed an act of service, I've walked

509
00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:07,840
Speaker 1: away feeling better about myself. Absolutely is a pillar to

510
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:10,800
Speaker 1: get us through that gray. Yeah, absolutely, I love that

511
00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:12,920
Speaker 1: that that phrase in the gray because I feel like

512
00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:16,280
Speaker 1: more people than not are in the gray. Yeah, people

513
00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:18,560
Speaker 1: and not are walking there. And I think what what

514
00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:20,720
Speaker 1: shifts in a little bit, even for just a moment,

515
00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:22,679
Speaker 1: is having someone else's in the gray go up to

516
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:24,080
Speaker 1: you and be like, I'm here with you, buddy. And

517
00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:25,680
Speaker 1: then there's a little bit of color in that. And

518
00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:28,000
Speaker 1: I want people to understand too, like it just you know, like,

519
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:29,720
Speaker 1: look at us, we're bonding over this. It's the first

520
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:31,760
Speaker 1: time we've met, right, we we We've reached out, and

521
00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:34,080
Speaker 1: I appreciate you reaching out because now you're my brother

522
00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:36,000
Speaker 1: walking in this gray with me, Like now you're fucking

523
00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:38,520
Speaker 1: stuck with me, whether you like it or not. But

524
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:41,760
Speaker 1: my friends are the baddest motherfucker's in the planet. It

525
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:44,679
Speaker 1: is the Rock and Stallone and Randy Guttur, Chuck Lidell

526
00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:46,720
Speaker 1: and Michael Strands and how he longs, And this is

527
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:48,679
Speaker 1: who I work with. This is my cruit right, Not

528
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:51,560
Speaker 1: one of them. I've cried every one of them. I've

529
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:53,360
Speaker 1: gone to each one of them when I need help.

530
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:55,760
Speaker 1: I've gone each one of them when I'm having my

531
00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:59,320
Speaker 1: gray days. Not fucking one of them have called me.

532
00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:01,720
Speaker 1: It was told me to suck it up, or said,

533
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:03,359
Speaker 1: oh Jay, what do you have to be sad about?

534
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:06,359
Speaker 1: Your life is so great? In fact, it's done the other.

535
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:09,600
Speaker 1: It's gotten us all so much closer together, And we

536
00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:12,679
Speaker 1: as dudes really need to do a better job of

537
00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:15,560
Speaker 1: understanding that's what's gonna get us close together. Me me

538
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:18,159
Speaker 1: having the next round Randy Guttur in the cage is

539
00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:20,879
Speaker 1: not what gets us closer. Me and him sitting around

540
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:25,080
Speaker 1: afterwards talking about ship and crying to each other, that's

541
00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:27,280
Speaker 1: what gets us closer. So it's okay, And I want

542
00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:29,560
Speaker 1: people to understand that, Like, look at the bottom that

543
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:33,720
Speaker 1: you and I are forming over this. And if you

544
00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:35,840
Speaker 1: and I were just talking sports or talking fighting, or

545
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 1: talking football, talking acting, it wouldn't be as close. It

546
00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:41,320
Speaker 1: wouldn't be this type, this bomb, wouldn't be the strong.

547
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:43,560
Speaker 1: And that's where somebody like you and somebody like me,

548
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:47,280
Speaker 1: we we can be of service well passed what our

549
00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:50,119
Speaker 1: jobs are. Yeah, I thought, and I said when I

550
00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:52,400
Speaker 1: reached out to you. I think it's important for young

551
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:55,840
Speaker 1: men specifically. There's many figures out there right now in

552
00:24:55,960 --> 00:25:00,119
Speaker 1: social media, on TV politics that preach a certain out

553
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:03,800
Speaker 1: of lifestyle right, very vitriolic, etcetera, etcetera. And I think

554
00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:06,760
Speaker 1: it's important for young people all over to understand that

555
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:09,719
Speaker 1: it's not wrong to be empathetic, that in fact, it

556
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:13,000
Speaker 1: makes you stronger to be vulnerable. To be empathetic, to

557
00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:17,640
Speaker 1: killer about your brother and sister is a fucking superpower. Uh.

558
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:20,840
Speaker 1: And I sit sometimes and think, imagine if all of

559
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:23,240
Speaker 1: us gave a fun the way that you give a fuck,

560
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:25,719
Speaker 1: the way that the rock cares, the way that you know,

561
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 1: imagine if we all had that effort, where we would

562
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:33,080
Speaker 1: be Um. I think oftentimes dissenting voices can be the loudest, uh,

563
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:35,719
Speaker 1: and and so they cause a lot of trouble, and

564
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:39,280
Speaker 1: they bang a lot of posts and pains. But your voice,

565
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:42,359
Speaker 1: our voices, it cuts through all that bullshit because it's true.

566
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:45,640
Speaker 1: Uh and and it's about sticking together, right and coming

567
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:47,639
Speaker 1: out on the other side stronger. You're never gonna be

568
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:50,000
Speaker 1: weaker again, you know, it's always gonna make a strong

569
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:52,800
Speaker 1: Give me a story of again. I'm not an actor,

570
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:55,840
Speaker 1: so I don't have these experiences. Give me that experience

571
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:58,040
Speaker 1: for you were like, fuck, man, here's my moment. I'm

572
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 1: there and it didn't happen like you thought you made it,

573
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:02,640
Speaker 1: you know, like Frank Briller was saying, right, he got

574
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:04,720
Speaker 1: he thought it was a minority report and he went

575
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:08,080
Speaker 1: to walk the red carpet and he found out during

576
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 1: the premiere that he was cut out. I've had those

577
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:12,679
Speaker 1: moments too. Yeah, man, I'll tell you this is a

578
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:15,200
Speaker 1: more recent one, and I'm sort of able to laugh

579
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:17,200
Speaker 1: about it now. But at the height of the success

580
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:19,400
Speaker 1: of the show, you know, you try to strike while

581
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 1: the island's hot. As a Puerto Rican First of all,

582
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 1: there are not many people that I can look to

583
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:27,160
Speaker 1: as examples in the business. There There hasn't been traditionally,

584
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 1: right second, the roles that we typically play are asked

585
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:32,760
Speaker 1: to play or not the kind of roles that called

586
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:34,480
Speaker 1: to me. I'm not a thug or a drug dealer

587
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:36,240
Speaker 1: or so there's a certain amount of doing that because

588
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:38,119
Speaker 1: you gotta pay the bills. But then you know at

589
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 1: a certain point and you're like, now I can do

590
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:41,359
Speaker 1: this at the highest level. I don't want to do

591
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:45,439
Speaker 1: this to serve this narrative, right, so you start trying

592
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,200
Speaker 1: to make things happen. And I reached out to Warner

593
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:51,439
Speaker 1: Brothers d C at the time, because there's not very

594
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:54,880
Speaker 1: many Latino superheroes, but there's one. And I had start

595
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:57,440
Speaker 1: to write a treatment forward and I bought the comics

596
00:26:57,480 --> 00:26:59,119
Speaker 1: and I immersed myself in it because I don't do

597
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:01,439
Speaker 1: anything half asked in that regard. And I got a

598
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:04,040
Speaker 1: meeting with him, you know, with these two guys I

599
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:06,239
Speaker 1: won't name them, but they were running the company over there,

600
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:07,840
Speaker 1: at the DC unit over there at the time of

601
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:10,159
Speaker 1: Warner Brothers and the fucking when it makes them r

602
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:13,040
Speaker 1: an amazing meeting. They're thinking, I'm hearing them tell me

603
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:15,360
Speaker 1: and as you know in Hollywood, they say one thing

604
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:17,240
Speaker 1: and it could be another thing. Right, but I'm hearing

605
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:19,400
Speaker 1: them say, uh, you know, we love you for this.

606
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 1: The blue Beetle is the character. Uh and uh, I

607
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:25,359
Speaker 1: pitched my ideas and say, you know what, we got

608
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:27,480
Speaker 1: a script. Go on, it's in development. When we when

609
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:29,320
Speaker 1: it's done, we'll give you a call. Fast forward a

610
00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:31,400
Speaker 1: year later. I mean, and this it really did hurt.

611
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:34,760
Speaker 1: They they didn't have a casting process. There was nothing.

612
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:36,960
Speaker 1: They had just announced. They went with this other guy. Um,

613
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,760
Speaker 1: and I thought, man, that's humbling, right, Like you think

614
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:41,439
Speaker 1: I got my foot in the door this way at

615
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:44,919
Speaker 1: least maybe the same role. Yeah, they just there was

616
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 1: no audition process. They just gave it to this guy.

617
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:48,920
Speaker 1: I'm sure he had to read for it and things

618
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:51,480
Speaker 1: like that, but it just went to this other guy. Um.

619
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:53,920
Speaker 1: And I felt gutted, right, I felt like, oh my god,

620
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:56,040
Speaker 1: they didn't even call me in to read for this thing.

621
00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:58,159
Speaker 1: You know, I'm I'm on this show. I'm starting in

622
00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:00,080
Speaker 1: the show blah blah blah blah, and you eat it

623
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:03,159
Speaker 1: starts to get on. Uh. So that that broke me

624
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:06,000
Speaker 1: for a while, because after that it was sort of

625
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:08,960
Speaker 1: a domino effect of getting really really really close um

626
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 1: and and then not getting anything at all. Right, And

627
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 1: now I've learned, and I think it's trial by combat certainly,

628
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:17,960
Speaker 1: But now I've learned that you've got you get the

629
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:19,640
Speaker 1: ones you get by and large, you know. I think

630
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:21,040
Speaker 1: a lot of actors will tell you that you get

631
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:23,120
Speaker 1: the ones you're supposed to get. I read a story

632
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:25,639
Speaker 1: about Christian Bale, one of the best fucking actors on

633
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:28,160
Speaker 1: the planet. He just had an Esquire article out about

634
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 1: how he's only gotten roles that Leo DiCaprio has turned down. Yeah,

635
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:38,720
Speaker 1: and you're thinking, Christian Bale, he's one often, he's incredible, right,

636
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 1: and he's staying for the longest fucking time. I would

637
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:44,320
Speaker 1: only get work that Leo turned down, you know, and

638
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 1: it puts it puts him in perspective. So I've I've

639
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:49,720
Speaker 1: mellowed out a little bit about the audition process and

640
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:52,280
Speaker 1: also learned that, uh, I'm not just an actor. I

641
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 1: had to figure out who I was outside of that,

642
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 1: you know, which led me to Johnny Stanton, football guy

643
00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:00,080
Speaker 1: and d n D enthusiast Unders and Dragons enthusiasts. I

644
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:02,240
Speaker 1: fallen in love the last three years with Dungeons and

645
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 1: Dragons and uh table top gaming and all of that

646
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 1: and it's opened me up to an incredible group of

647
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:10,120
Speaker 1: people and they've really saved me. Man, that these folks

648
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 1: a critical role and the Dungeons and Dragons universe, and

649
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:16,239
Speaker 1: that's aw, that's that's incredible. And think about something that

650
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:18,640
Speaker 1: as a kid we just idolized that it would come

651
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:22,480
Speaker 1: back and serve you, you know, decades later. I never knew,

652
00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 1: you know, I grew up in the South box. Uh

653
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:27,320
Speaker 1: my dad's a cop on my lifelong martial artists. I

654
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 1: grew up hitting people and getting hit. I didn't know

655
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:31,200
Speaker 1: about Dungeons and Dragons. I didn't know about any of

656
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:33,720
Speaker 1: that ship. And it's funny. I talked to the people

657
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:35,280
Speaker 1: in the world now and I go and I mean this,

658
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:37,960
Speaker 1: if I would have been introduced at nine or ten

659
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:40,440
Speaker 1: or eight, you know, two two Dungeons and Dragons, I

660
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:42,400
Speaker 1: would have tried to make it my whole fucking life

661
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:44,600
Speaker 1: because I love it, you know. Uh, I went into

662
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 1: acting and now it's coming around a little bit later

663
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:49,200
Speaker 1: in life. But I'm really happy that I've met the people,

664
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:51,120
Speaker 1: have met and have been steeped in that world now,

665
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:53,280
Speaker 1: you know, So there was something I kind of I

666
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 1: guess mind games you've played my games. When you are

667
00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 1: going for for jobs constantly, that you're again. It took

668
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:02,240
Speaker 1: me eleven years, eleven years a rejection to get a

669
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:06,000
Speaker 1: full time job, and it fucking sucked. It takes so

670
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 1: much out of your soul. But I read something in

671
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:10,920
Speaker 1: a prayer book and it said, appreciate the toil of

672
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 1: the climb, and that really became on man. For all

673
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:17,080
Speaker 1: those years, it was like, okay. In other words, you know, hey, man,

674
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:19,240
Speaker 1: I was interning at this place. I'm interning at w

675
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:21,080
Speaker 1: f a M Radio New York, and I'm getting to

676
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 1: go to press conferences. This is the cool thing. It's

677
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:25,320
Speaker 1: the pot of goal of the end of the rainbow.

678
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 1: Isn't getting the job at the end, isn't getting your

679
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 1: dream job. It's the journey itself. And I did train

680
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:34,480
Speaker 1: myself to believe that, like, and it seems like you're

681
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 1: going through the same thing of the journey. That's the richest.

682
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:42,240
Speaker 1: That's the richest, not what you get. Are the jobs

683
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:44,760
Speaker 1: that you get hired for the journey itself. Are you

684
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:47,360
Speaker 1: able to live that a little bit more? Now, I'm

685
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 1: coming out of my dog days, right and I'm starting

686
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:51,240
Speaker 1: to see the light there and you can see behind me.

687
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:53,520
Speaker 1: My favorite act on the planet is al Pacino. He's

688
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:55,640
Speaker 1: got this quote that I've I've heard a thousand times.

689
00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 1: It's just now starting to really seek in and it's it.

690
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 1: I'm gonna paraphrase, but actors hate auditioning. But if you're

691
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 1: not auditioning, you're not acting that week, right, Like the

692
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,360
Speaker 1: five minutes I get in front of a camera and

693
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 1: these people is the only time that I get to

694
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:12,640
Speaker 1: do what I fucking love more than anything else on

695
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:16,000
Speaker 1: the planet. So that shift for me the last couple

696
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:18,320
Speaker 1: of months auditioning for this project I've been talking about

697
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:21,520
Speaker 1: with you, It's made it so much more rewarding to

698
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 1: just be processed right, And I'm really starting to look

699
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:27,480
Speaker 1: at life that way. I'm not one to make friends easy.

700
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 1: I've had the same group of friends for a leaven

701
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:32,880
Speaker 1: years now. I've been forcing myself to you know, I

702
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:35,160
Speaker 1: mentioned Dungeons and Dragons. I reached out to this group

703
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 1: of people, put myself out there. I said, man, listen,

704
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 1: I've never played. I love you guys. You've helped me

705
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:42,680
Speaker 1: through some dark days. I'd love to meet you guys.

706
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:44,960
Speaker 1: You know, taking that sort of initiative, it's just not

707
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 1: who I am. It's not well, I should say it's

708
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 1: not who I've been, but it does mean it can't

709
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 1: be who I am now. Uh, And I've sort of

710
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 1: been living by that, you know, and trying to be

711
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:58,120
Speaker 1: one percent better every day and getting back in the

712
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 1: gym was a big deal. Listening to podcast like yours

713
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:02,640
Speaker 1: is a big deal for me because you gotta want

714
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:06,200
Speaker 1: to help yourself. You know, your cast of thirteen Reasons.

715
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:08,400
Speaker 1: Are you guys a close the group? Have you guys

716
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:10,960
Speaker 1: remained close? I think the show ended and we went

717
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,000
Speaker 1: our separate ways because it was a lot of time

718
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 1: altogether all the time. But I will say that I've

719
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 1: worked on a bunch of shows and I've never had

720
00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 1: the experience that I had with these guys in the trenches.

721
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 1: There's a lot of controversy, there was a lot of gammoil,

722
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 1: and we were all there for each other. Um So

723
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 1: I don't think, you know, I haven't seen some of

724
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:31,000
Speaker 1: them in months, some of them in years. But I

725
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:33,840
Speaker 1: know if they called me and said I need you here,

726
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:35,760
Speaker 1: I'd be there in a heartbeat. And and I know

727
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:39,200
Speaker 1: in my heart that it's reciprocated. We're a family. How

728
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:40,960
Speaker 1: are you able to deal because again, you're an actor,

729
00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 1: You're not therapist or not in this, and all of

730
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:46,400
Speaker 1: a sudden you're thrust in the middle of suicide talk

731
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:48,760
Speaker 1: and there was a lot of controversy. How are you

732
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:50,719
Speaker 1: guys able to handle that because that's not what your

733
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:53,160
Speaker 1: training is in. No, Well, we had to get training

734
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:57,640
Speaker 1: real fucking fast. UM. I was disappointed, honestly in just

735
00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 1: how much they relied on us to in front of

736
00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 1: the firing squad. You know, I remember that happening and

737
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:07,000
Speaker 1: thinking this is not this dims all with the lights

738
00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:08,640
Speaker 1: right now, you know, like, this is not what we

739
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:11,680
Speaker 1: should be dealing with. Um, you wrote words on a paper.

740
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:14,320
Speaker 1: I spoke unbelievably and it had an impact and now

741
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 1: I'm answering for the words that you wrote. Right. So

742
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 1: it was it was difficult to navigate at first. But again,

743
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:23,000
Speaker 1: and and I really mean this, the pressure is a privilege.

744
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 1: I think some of us handled it better than others. Um.

745
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 1: But we realized pretty quickly that we weren't just actress

746
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 1: on the show. It was a movement that that we

747
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:35,920
Speaker 1: had started inadvertently, whether we knew it or not, we

748
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:39,000
Speaker 1: were we were now responsible for this thing, this labor

749
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 1: of love. That we created in six months, talked away

750
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:46,080
Speaker 1: and fucking San Francisco, uh in Valetjo. We didn't know

751
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:47,960
Speaker 1: what we were doing, and then it came out and

752
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:50,800
Speaker 1: it was like here. So we all had to stand

753
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:52,920
Speaker 1: by it and stand up for it. And it made

754
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:55,720
Speaker 1: us closer as a group. And it makes every other

755
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:59,400
Speaker 1: project pale in comparison. Right, I hope at least I'm

756
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:01,120
Speaker 1: not gonna have to go through the ringer with some

757
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:03,560
Speaker 1: of those things the way we did with that show. Um,

758
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:05,280
Speaker 1: So it's a life lesson. It makes it tougher. Right,

759
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:07,240
Speaker 1: It didn't knock us out. It could have, but it

760
00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 1: didn't be. We kept going talk about life lessons. My

761
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:12,680
Speaker 1: last question to you ask all my guests, give me

762
00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:14,800
Speaker 1: your own breakable moment, like that thing that should have

763
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:16,759
Speaker 1: broken you didn't. You came through the other side of

764
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:18,560
Speaker 1: that tunnel. And now you could use that for the

765
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:20,919
Speaker 1: rest of your life. Yeah, here's the story. Not many

766
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:23,719
Speaker 1: people know. I mean, I've I've mentioned I think one

767
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:26,799
Speaker 1: of them more recent was my bout with my my

768
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:29,840
Speaker 1: struggle with these suicidal thoughts and my dad coming to

769
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:32,680
Speaker 1: the rescue there and spearheading it. This is another one.

770
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:36,359
Speaker 1: My freshman year College Conservatory in New Jersey. Me and

771
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:38,840
Speaker 1: some of my friends. We we were broken, hungry, and

772
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:41,480
Speaker 1: we figured out that we could steal from Target, food, clothes,

773
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:43,920
Speaker 1: all of this ship. Over the course of six months,

774
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 1: we took twenty dollars and ship. I mean, we would

775
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:50,960
Speaker 1: take lists on Rutgers University where I went, who needs underpare,

776
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:53,400
Speaker 1: who needs clothes, who needs blah blah blah blah, and

777
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:55,400
Speaker 1: we made it happen. So you're good thieves, is what

778
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:57,520
Speaker 1: you're saying, if you're gonna do something to be good

779
00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:01,400
Speaker 1: at Yeah. We we we were that. And we had

780
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:04,880
Speaker 1: a rule nobody drove twice in the same week, etcetera, etcetera.

781
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:07,759
Speaker 1: We got caught somebody, somebody sucked it all up, which

782
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:10,279
Speaker 1: was a good thing, right. And I'm sitting in the

783
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:14,080
Speaker 1: jail cell in a middle Middlebrook County, New Jersey. Uh,

784
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:16,919
Speaker 1: And I remember thinking, my dad told me a long

785
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:19,359
Speaker 1: time ago, if you ever get arrested, don't call me.

786
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:21,719
Speaker 1: I'm a cop. It will be the height of embarrassingment

787
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:23,359
Speaker 1: for me, and I will leave you in that fucking GM.

788
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:25,879
Speaker 1: This is going through my mind going. I got one call,

789
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 1: so I didn't call him. I called my best friend,

790
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:30,120
Speaker 1: I said, I got enough money in my bank account,

791
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 1: go to them, trying to explain what the situation. Of

792
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:34,359
Speaker 1: course I didn't know at the time. I was young

793
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 1: and naive. I'm thinking they're gonna git my money right there.

794
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:40,640
Speaker 1: So everyone else got bailed out. The next day, I

795
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:42,960
Speaker 1: sat there because I was Adam, and I said, whatever

796
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:45,919
Speaker 1: you do, do not tell my parents. My mom's a cop,

797
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 1: my dad's a cop, my uncle's a cop, like everybody's

798
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:51,719
Speaker 1: a cop. Don't tell him. I'll be here forever, you know. Um.

799
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:54,120
Speaker 1: So they're trying to collect the money amongst themselves to

800
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 1: bail me out. Finally, you know, he has to call

801
00:35:56,760 --> 00:36:00,359
Speaker 1: my mom, and uh, my mom comes in bail me out.

802
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:03,319
Speaker 1: I remember oursel was on the first floor, so I

803
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:06,359
Speaker 1: could see people coming in to pick other people up right,

804
00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:08,560
Speaker 1: and you'd hear the name coming in so and so

805
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:10,960
Speaker 1: you're leaving, blah blah blah. And I heard my name

806
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 1: and I saw my mom and I turned to my

807
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 1: my selmmate Rick, and I said, funk, I want to

808
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:18,200
Speaker 1: stay in here, like she's gonna kick you know, I

809
00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:19,799
Speaker 1: don't want to go. I don't want to go. And

810
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:23,080
Speaker 1: I get in that car with her very sobering experience. Right,

811
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:25,480
Speaker 1: my mom and I. My mom and dad divorced. We

812
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:27,160
Speaker 1: didn't see each other much at that time. This was

813
00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:29,480
Speaker 1: the first time in a long time that I had

814
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:33,040
Speaker 1: seen her this way. And she came, no questions asked,

815
00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:34,959
Speaker 1: and did this thing for me. Um, And she goes,

816
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:37,000
Speaker 1: we're gonna take you back to school the day you're

817
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 1: gonna pack up your ship. You're coming home because your

818
00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:41,160
Speaker 1: dad wants to see him. All my heart sack, right,

819
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:44,000
Speaker 1: obviously she told him. Next day comes I go to

820
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:46,360
Speaker 1: breakfast Willem and he sits there and he says, I

821
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:49,240
Speaker 1: told you what would happen if if you ever got arrested,

822
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:51,680
Speaker 1: especially something like this. I don't ever want to talk

823
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:55,760
Speaker 1: to you again. Mat. Yeah, my dad is my best friend,

824
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:58,319
Speaker 1: my whole world. Right now, looking back, there's no way

825
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:00,120
Speaker 1: we were gonna go. Are the rest of all live

826
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:03,239
Speaker 1: without speaking? He was teaching me a lesson and and

827
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:06,160
Speaker 1: I came out of that experience. I had one more

828
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:08,480
Speaker 1: meeting with the school conservatory. I was in one of

829
00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:11,520
Speaker 1: the best acting conservatories on the planet, Rutgers, Mason Gross

830
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:13,720
Speaker 1: and they met with all of us. They got arrested,

831
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:16,680
Speaker 1: and I'll never forget. The man's name was Israel Hicks.

832
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:18,839
Speaker 1: He was the head of the program. He said, that

833
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,759
Speaker 1: woman over there, Barbara Marshawn and acting teacher, she's the

834
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:24,919
Speaker 1: only reason I'm not kicking you all out. Actors used

835
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:27,720
Speaker 1: to be on the same par as prostitutes and thieves,

836
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 1: and today you proved all of that. Right. I don't

837
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:33,839
Speaker 1: think you'll ever amount to anything, but she thinks you will.

838
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:36,239
Speaker 1: I don't want to again. And he got up and

839
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:38,360
Speaker 1: he left right JA. This is one of the biggest

840
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 1: regrets I have in my life. That man died that summer,

841
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:44,719
Speaker 1: Israel Hicks. He had cancer. No, when you're very strong. Man.

842
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:47,400
Speaker 1: He's a in the theater world. He's a fucking legend,

843
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:49,279
Speaker 1: titan of a man. Um he died. He was the

844
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:51,239
Speaker 1: head of our program. He died that weekend that summer.

845
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:53,880
Speaker 1: Excuse me, and I looked back every day and I

846
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:56,719
Speaker 1: think I wish he lived long enough for me to

847
00:37:56,800 --> 00:37:58,960
Speaker 1: prove to him that I was worth the time, that

848
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:01,319
Speaker 1: I was worth the effort. You know, that moment that

849
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:03,960
Speaker 1: that summer, everything that happened as a result of that arrest,

850
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:06,919
Speaker 1: the entire world thought I wasn't gonna come out on top.

851
00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:09,160
Speaker 1: I thought I wasn't gonna come out on top, and

852
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:11,480
Speaker 1: I had to make the decision to to prove to

853
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:14,640
Speaker 1: my dad, to prove to Israel, to prove to myself

854
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:17,239
Speaker 1: you're worth more than the mistakes you make. I think

855
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:19,680
Speaker 1: he was real. Season Yeah, I think we just read

856
00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:22,040
Speaker 1: these bodies the souls of vomb Forever. I'm sure he

857
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:24,560
Speaker 1: sees it. I'm sure he's proud. I hope he's frob

858
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:27,839
Speaker 1: but he you know, he never knew how big that

859
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:30,360
Speaker 1: moment was for me and how he changed my life.

860
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:32,279
Speaker 1: And I think about him often, you know, I think

861
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:35,400
Speaker 1: about him often. That's incredible, brother man. I appreciate you

862
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:37,920
Speaker 1: man so much. This is uh, like I said, this

863
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:40,200
Speaker 1: is us all. Diving into mental health is going to

864
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:42,480
Speaker 1: give us bonds stronger than we ever thought we could

865
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:45,279
Speaker 1: have had. So you know, Michael Phelpson had him on

866
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:48,200
Speaker 1: two weeks ago, and you know he now when he's struggling,

867
00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:51,600
Speaker 1: he reaches out to me. And I was struggling the

868
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:54,200
Speaker 1: other day. He saw something I posted and he reached

869
00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:57,120
Speaker 1: out to me, and you know, just check it out.

870
00:38:57,160 --> 00:38:58,920
Speaker 1: So you and I now, you and I gonna be

871
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:01,000
Speaker 1: walking this walk together and appreciate the bonds we have

872
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:03,719
Speaker 1: brother likewise, bro your family now and I appreciate you

873
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 1: and I have some people today and it means the

874
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:08,239
Speaker 1: world for me. So thank you you two. Brother man,

875
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 1: I appreciate you. Let's keep walking and swalk together. Love

876
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:10,879
Speaker 1: you brother,