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Speaker 1: It's Thursday, April tenth, a much needed schedule off day

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Speaker 1: for the Saint Louis Cardinals. Welcome back to Cardinal territory.

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Speaker 1: I'm Katie woo Hee with Bernie Nicholas. The Cardinals went

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Speaker 1: one and five on their first road trip of the season.

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Speaker 1: They have won two games in April. It was a

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Speaker 1: grueling trip to the East Coast. Bernie, your thoughts on

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Speaker 1: what was a rather disappointing first road trip of the

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Speaker 1: season for Saint Louis.

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Speaker 2: Well, I gotta throw a curveball at you right away.

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Speaker 2: So what about for you? Was it a grueling road trip?

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Speaker 2: It was the birthday weekend, you had family in town,

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Speaker 2: you had you had your girls in town. What did

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Speaker 2: you survive it? Okay, I want to I need to

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Speaker 2: know that before we continue.

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Speaker 3: Do you see me right now?

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Speaker 2: Fine?

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Speaker 1: Well, it was I had a lot of fun in Boston, obviously,

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Speaker 1: and I can rally. This is the big leagues. If

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna go out, I'm still gonna post the next day.

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Speaker 3: Come on. But I will say this this road trip.

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Speaker 3: I use the word grueling and my series recap on

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Speaker 3: the Athletic and that's how it felt. And it wasn't

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Speaker 3: the It was a six day road trip.

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Speaker 1: You know, we've done ten eleven games straight on the

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Speaker 1: road and I have not felt this exhausted, So I

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Speaker 1: can't even imagine how the players do. But it was

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Speaker 1: so much in terms of the weather, to rain now

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Speaker 1: or a rain now, a doubleheader, two extra inning games.

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Speaker 1: When was the last time a baseball team played thirteen innings?

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Speaker 3: Come on, what are we doing?

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Speaker 1: I thought that's why we had the automatic runner, the

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Speaker 1: elements for freezing thirty or three straight thirty degree games.

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Speaker 1: It was a tough one, all the fun aside because

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Speaker 1: that was my own doing all the things I couldn't control,

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Speaker 1: the baseball, the.

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Speaker 3: Weather, the games. It was tiring.

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Speaker 1: I definitely feel everyone could use this off day, but

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Speaker 1: that's no excuse, and I know we're not making excuses

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Speaker 1: for what was a poor showing from the.

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Speaker 3: Old ball club.

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Speaker 1: Again, one in five on the road, first roach trip

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Speaker 1: of the season. If Boston can swing it there a

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Speaker 1: good club you'd like to be able to take the

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Speaker 1: series from Pittsburgh on top of being able to beat

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Speaker 1: Paul Skins on Tuesday, and they weren't able to do it.

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Speaker 1: Your thoughts, Ernie will start with you, because I'm sure

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Speaker 1: there's a lot to go over over the last week

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Speaker 1: of games.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought it was disappointing because, first of all,

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Speaker 2: they should have won the Pittsburgh Series. And I'm not

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Speaker 2: saying two and four means you had a great road

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Speaker 2: trip and they there was one in Boston that got away.

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Speaker 2: I mean, a rare off form day by Hellsley. It's

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Speaker 2: going to happen. I can't be rough on that guy.

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Speaker 2: So they let some opportunities slip away. And I think

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Speaker 2: that's really disappointing for them because it could have been

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Speaker 2: a better road trip, and the last nine games that

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Speaker 2: you know, in general, could have been better as well.

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Speaker 2: But I listen, I'm not saying this just because you

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Speaker 2: brought it up, but I actually think it is exhausting

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Speaker 2: to watch them play. It is because there were so

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Speaker 2: many times during and I know we're focused on the

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Speaker 2: road trip, but I'm also looking at like this this

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Speaker 2: block of games where they're too and seven and the

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Speaker 2: road trip was primarily that, but there's just so many

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Speaker 2: games where you're kind of like, oh my gosh, is

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Speaker 2: this ever going to end? It's like what next? What

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Speaker 2: are they going to do? What? What? What? Is what

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Speaker 2: is Pop Warner sending Siani home for on a on

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Speaker 2: a on a I was going to use a phrase

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Speaker 2: I won't use, but it's like, what is he doing?

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Speaker 2: He's sending Tim to his demise automatically, Like what, like,

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Speaker 2: what are they thinking? What are they doing? It's you know,

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Speaker 2: the games were draining to watch, you know, unless you're

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Speaker 2: a robot, they were draining to watch, and I felt it.

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Speaker 2: I was just kind of like, my gosh, what an

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Speaker 2: ordeal these games. A couple of these games were, and

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Speaker 2: and I think that kind of is why the Cardinals

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Speaker 2: came home frustrated and very tired. And again, no one's

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Speaker 2: copping an excuse for them. They're pros, they go through stuff.

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Speaker 2: We get it. But I think by number one takeaway

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Speaker 2: other than that, just the fact they're an exhausting team

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Speaker 2: to watch and you're never really sure what you're going

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Speaker 2: to get from day to day, a personality change or whatever.

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Speaker 2: But the pitching was just awful. Now a couple of

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Speaker 2: different exceptions, of course, but the pitching by and large

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Speaker 2: was awful. The bullpen was spent, the bullpen ran out

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Speaker 2: of depth, the bullpen was almost non competitive. You know,

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Speaker 2: not every player but you know what I'm saying, So

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Speaker 2: they've they're they're not. They're even with this offense being

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Speaker 2: as good as it has been, they can't be expected

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Speaker 2: to score six and a half front sprigade. This pitching

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Speaker 2: has got to get better. Except the scary thing is,

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Speaker 2: as I don't know how, there's not a lot of

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Speaker 2: depth in Memphis right now. They sent Roycroft down. I

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Speaker 2: know we're going to talk about that, but it's easy

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Speaker 2: to say, well, the pitching's got to be better. How

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Speaker 2: do you make it better? How does it get better?

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Speaker 2: It's got to happen soon, especially with the Phillies coming

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Speaker 2: to town.

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Speaker 1: Yeap, you're spot on. As I was watching these games,

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Speaker 1: I felt the same way.

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Speaker 2: It was.

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Speaker 3: You know, we are I've said this before.

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Speaker 1: We are prepared to ride the roller coaster with the

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Speaker 1: Saint Louis Cardinals and the fan base as part of

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Speaker 1: our job. You know, the highs and the lows that

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Speaker 1: come one hundred and sixty two game season, that's part

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Speaker 1: of it. These are going to be some extreme highs

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Speaker 1: and lows, and it's going to be dependent on the pitching.

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Speaker 1: You know, I thought Sunny Gray's outing was much better.

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Speaker 1: His last two have been good. Eric Fetty was effective.

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Speaker 1: You know you're gonna let a lead off guy on

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Speaker 1: to just make sure they don't score.

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Speaker 3: He did that.

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Speaker 1: It's I agree with you about the bullpen looking spent.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it was evident they were spent before they

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Speaker 1: even left for the road trip, and even with that

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Speaker 1: off day last Thursday, it was hard for them to

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Speaker 1: rally and get back together. It just seems like there's

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Speaker 1: no other options though, to help this team get better.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 1: I know that immediate argument is Michael McGreevy and I

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Speaker 1: do not disagree, but you have to think about the

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Speaker 1: long term plan of the season. The Cardinals have to

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Speaker 1: make sure they like are definitive on what they do

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Speaker 1: with the Miles Michaelis or a Steven matt Those guys

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Speaker 1: can't go to Triple A. You can't send them down

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Speaker 1: and bring him back up right. You can't like set

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Speaker 1: him to hope they get right and bring up them

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Speaker 1: a Greevy or bring up somebody. Yet they have to

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Speaker 1: almost go through this trial and error period in April,

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Speaker 1: and that's what fans don't want. They don't want this

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Speaker 1: like highs and lows. You know, oh, michaeliss is in

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Speaker 1: today or Oh, here comes Steven Matt's at the bullpen,

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Speaker 1: another somewhat shortstop from Andre Polante go down the list.

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Speaker 3: Fans don't want that, and it's.

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Speaker 1: A lot more difficult to understand where the Cardinals are

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Speaker 1: going because there is a clear option that looks better

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Speaker 1: from a fan perspective in Triple A and it's not

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Speaker 1: time to bring him up yet, So I understand why

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Speaker 1: fans are frustrated there. The bullpen is a little even

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Speaker 1: more dicey to me because you have Hallsley yes off

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Speaker 1: day in that game, want.

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Speaker 3: Of that doubleheader. That's not going to happen.

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Speaker 1: It was evident when he came out first batter he

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Speaker 1: didn't have his fastball command. Not sure what else you

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Speaker 1: can do in that situation except bride there's a doubleheader.

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Speaker 1: Can't pull him out, then you earned two believers and

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Speaker 1: you have nobody for what ended up being just a

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Speaker 1: disastrous game too. Ryan Fernandez is working on some things.

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Speaker 1: It hasn't looked so good, but it looked much better

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Speaker 1: in that Wednesday finale against Pittsburgh.

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Speaker 3: Jojo Romero is looking better. Kyle Layy, if there's one

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Speaker 3: person that we should be praising over the start of

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Speaker 3: the season. It's lay He He's.

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Speaker 1: Looked excellent, But it just seems like the Cardinals are

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Speaker 1: gonna have cover or trouble covering innings. And it makes

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Speaker 1: me a little nervous because in six days they're going

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Speaker 1: to implement that so called six man rotation. And I

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Speaker 1: asked Ollie, if Steven Matt' is supposed to be your

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Speaker 1: length guy and you're gonna put him back in the

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Speaker 1: rotation to help ease, you know, And it's important to

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Speaker 1: note that this is not going to be a traditional

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Speaker 1: six man rotation. There's gonna be built in skip starts

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Speaker 1: for certain guys where they'll have like a I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: call it a five and a half man rotation where

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Speaker 1: sometimes they'll skip Steven Matts and he'll still be in

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Speaker 1: the bullpen. Sometimes they'll skip somebody else and Matt's will

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Speaker 1: take that as a spot start. But they're essentially proceeding

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Speaker 1: after this week with down a reliever. They're only gonna

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Speaker 1: have seven relievers. And I asked Ollie, how is that

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Speaker 1: gonna work when the bullpen's already been spent and showed

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Speaker 1: that with an eight man ordeal, this is going to

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Speaker 1: be difficult for them.

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Speaker 3: He looked at me and he just said they're gonna

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Speaker 3: have to cover.

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Speaker 1: So he is not like a great strategy, And to

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Speaker 1: be fair, I don't think he said it or implied

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Speaker 1: it as you know, as if either. But there are

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Speaker 1: so many different dynamics with this transition plan, with this reset,

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Speaker 1: with emphasizing development, and it just doesn't bode well because

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Speaker 1: I really do think this offense can be the backbone

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Speaker 1: of this club, but this pitching is going to be

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Speaker 1: its demise if they can't figure out a way to

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Speaker 1: be effective.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I don't know, I agree with you about McGreevy.

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Speaker 2: I get it, and it's not easy to like. It's

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Speaker 2: not a simple thing to understand. It's pretty it's kind

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Speaker 2: of complex. But they also, you know, and I realize

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Speaker 2: it's very easy to kick Miles Michael is around. But

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Speaker 2: one thing that I feel compelled to point out is

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Speaker 2: I know he has a rep as an innings eater,

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Speaker 2: and by and large, even the last couple of years

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Speaker 2: that's true. You know, he's been mediocre or worse, but

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Speaker 2: he does provide a lot of innings. But that's changed.

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Speaker 2: I went back to late last season, you know, beginning

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Speaker 2: in all you know, August and then September and then

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Speaker 2: carrying over to this year, like his last twelve starts

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Speaker 2: he's averaged less than five innings. It's like four and

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Speaker 2: a half innings, and his ERA is six ninety nine,

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Speaker 2: and he's got the he's got the worst RA and

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Speaker 2: the worst strikeout rate and the worst swing and miss

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Speaker 2: rate in the majors, you know, going back to early

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Speaker 2: August last season. And my question, you know, we asked

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Speaker 2: Oli about this and you know, kind of put him

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Speaker 2: on the spot on Guest House Gang the other day,

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Speaker 2: and I just said, like, he doesn't have anything a

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Speaker 2: pitcher can survive with. Like tell I said, you know,

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Speaker 2: what is it that gives anybody down there with the

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Speaker 2: belief that, well, he can do this and then it'll

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Speaker 2: get better. He's just incredibly he's so easily hittable. Now

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Speaker 2: there's there's not much defense there. You have to like

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Speaker 2: say a little baseball prayer that he's going somebody's going

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Speaker 2: to hit it right on the fielder. And Ali was saying, like, listen,

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Speaker 2: we're trying, you know, we're gonna we're talking about this

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Speaker 2: where you know, we suggest things, we try on everything,

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Speaker 2: but at some point he's got to get it done.

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Speaker 2: And that was the first time I ever heard Marvel

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Speaker 2: in effect just leave that door open and like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: he's He didn't say, well, he's on the clock, but

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Speaker 2: he made it clear like that this can't go on forever.

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Speaker 2: So the reason I'm bringing this up is because it

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Speaker 2: fits into this six man rotation thing. I mean, if

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Speaker 2: you're six man rotation like you haven't you have guys there,

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Speaker 2: it can't cover enough innings. And the one guy that

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Speaker 2: is getting paid eighteen million dollars almost this year to

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Speaker 2: give you a lot of innings isn't. So how is

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Speaker 2: that going to help the bullpen When you're carrying Miles

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Speaker 2: Michaelis Now you're you're going to bring matts into the rotation.

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Speaker 2: Like you said, it's not a traditional setup, but it's

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Speaker 2: going to be even tougher for the bullpen to cover

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Speaker 2: if these guys are getting bounced out of games early

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Speaker 2: or they can't go deeper into games. It's a real predicament,

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Speaker 2: real predicament.

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Speaker 3: It is.

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Speaker 1: And that's why I think this upcoming start for Miles,

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Speaker 1: which will be Saturday against the Philadelphia Phillies, yikes, it's

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Speaker 1: going to be very telling. And I think the next

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Speaker 1: couple of weeks as we approached the April sixteenth start line,

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Speaker 1: if you will, for the six man rotation, it will

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Speaker 1: be telling about where Miles lands. You know, could he

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Speaker 1: go to the bullpen? Could him and Matt's swap rolls?

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Speaker 1: And Miles is the long man. You know, he's making

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Speaker 1: eighteen million dollars to perform. I know the Cardinals want

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Speaker 1: him out there to eat innings, but there's a difference between,

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Speaker 1: as you said.

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Speaker 3: Eating innings and eating innings of quality, and there has

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Speaker 3: not been much quality lately for Miles. So that's something

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Speaker 3: I'm keeping my eye on as the next homestand begins.

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Speaker 3: Phillies astros.

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Speaker 1: Phillies can swing at Astros are struggling at big time,

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Speaker 1: So we'll see how the offensively, I should say, we'll

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Speaker 1: see how the pitching shapes up. But this is something

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Speaker 1: I'm absolutely monitoring because of the trickle down effect into

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Speaker 1: the bullpen, and we're always going to focus on the

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Speaker 1: efficiency of the bullpen. It's nature as a fan because

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Speaker 1: when games are lost late, who are we looking at

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Speaker 1: the relievers? And so it's just I'm not quite sure

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Speaker 1: how sustainable this strategy is going to be for Saint Louis.

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Speaker 1: But I think we'll get a better idea as we

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Speaker 1: approach the home stand and see how these starters fare.

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Speaker 1: Some minor news to get into with the bullpen speaking of,

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Speaker 1: but first let's hear from our sponsor png AJ.

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Speaker 5: Right, no doubt. I was there today, I've been there before.

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Speaker 5: Last time I was there, they gave me this killer gap.

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Speaker 1: Weag.

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Speaker 5: You look at that sweet spot, Scott. It is worn out.

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Speaker 5: That is right in the sweet spot right there. So

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Speaker 5: I went and got new clubs today, new irons. But

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Speaker 5: more importantly, I got this bad boy. I got me

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Speaker 5: to the Allen putter. They talked me into it because

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Speaker 5: I was draining some putts today. Bob, the guy who

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Speaker 5: helped me out, he helped me with my irons. He

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Speaker 5: got them teed up perfectly. But then we went to

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Speaker 5: the putting green. I was draining them putts because that's

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Speaker 5: the most important part of Golf.

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Speaker 3: All right, those are our pals, PCHG.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for that. Let's get into the minor news on

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Speaker 1: the off day. Kind of saw this one coming. Chris

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Speaker 1: Roycroft option to Memphis this morning. That is official. It's

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Speaker 1: on the MLB transaction page, so the Cardinals have not

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Speaker 1: announced it themselves. Roderie Munos will be the corresponding move.

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Speaker 1: I was told it was gonna be between him and O'Brien.

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Speaker 1: We'll see. Let me pull up Munos's stat line. Memphis

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Speaker 1: has had some real bad weather lately, so there haven't

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Speaker 1: been a.

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Speaker 3: Ton of games to go off of. But Munos has

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Speaker 3: appeared in four games, pitch five innings for Memphis, three

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Speaker 3: hits one and run walked five.

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Speaker 1: You don't love that struck out seven. You do love

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Speaker 1: that he is a former starter for the Marlins. He's

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Speaker 1: a big arm, he's got a big arsenal. The idea

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Speaker 1: here is to just be able to cover and be effective.

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Speaker 1: I think we'll see, and I've brought about this in

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Speaker 1: the Athletic this morning. We'll see Kyle lay He get

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Speaker 1: more of a higher leverage role now again he's been excellent,

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Speaker 1: and we'll.

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Speaker 3: See Munos come in when needed.

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Speaker 1: But as we saw, there's a huge difference in the

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Speaker 1: Cardinals trailing by two and bringing in a reliever that

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Speaker 1: can hold that to two, or the Cardinals trailing by

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Speaker 1: two and bringing in a reliever and all of a

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Speaker 1: sudden they're down five. So I think the idea for Munos,

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Speaker 1: and we'll know more when this move becomes official probably tomorrow,

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Speaker 1: will be to kind of just hold the gap in

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Speaker 1: a deficit while the Cardinals look towards Lady to kind

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Speaker 1: of mirror Ryan Fernandez in that setup role. But I

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Speaker 1: think Phil Aton and Ryan Helsley in the eight and

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Speaker 1: nine that's a lock and that's looks really good at least.

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Speaker 2: And Mundo's is interesting because he does have that firepower,

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Speaker 2: but he also doesn't seem to know where the ball

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Speaker 2: is going to go either, and that's a problem. But

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Speaker 2: you know, one of the main issues with the Cardinals bullpen.

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Speaker 2: I mean, Helsley's can strike out anybody. I mean, Helsley's

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Speaker 2: got a great strikeout rate. You know, Kit Ridge had

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Speaker 2: had a really good one last year, Fernandez was starting

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Speaker 2: to have a really good one, and he's, you know,

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Speaker 2: as you said, working on some things. I know we're

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Speaker 2: only twelve games in here, but I was I was

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Speaker 2: stunned to, like, look at how poor of a strikeout

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Speaker 2: rate this bullpen has. And that's one of the problems.

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Speaker 2: The balls in play a lot, and they're walking people too.

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Speaker 2: And again I don't I don't want to jump on

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Speaker 2: Ryan Halsey. That was just a bad day at the office.

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Speaker 2: The guy's an awesome, awesome closer. But there's some really

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Speaker 2: bad habits down there or some things that sort of

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Speaker 2: expose their lack of capability. And there's not a lot

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Speaker 2: there's not enough swinging miss there's not enough punch outs.

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Speaker 2: And I think in today's baseball it's been this way

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Speaker 2: for a while. Now. You need that, you need you

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Speaker 2: need heavyweight punches. You need to just okay, you got

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Speaker 2: a dangerous hit or up, you got to get punch outs.

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Speaker 2: You know you don't. You don't give them a chance

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Speaker 2: to hit the ball hard somewhere, and you know the

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Speaker 2: strategy shouldn't be, well, you know, we can get some

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Speaker 2: ground balls and get out of this. When you're relying

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Speaker 2: on batted ball luck. I mean, for a bullpen, that's

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Speaker 2: a disaster waiting to happen. And I think we're seeing

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Speaker 2: the early signs of that. So and I listen, I'm

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Speaker 2: gonna be insufferable here for about thirty seconds. I don't

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Speaker 2: mean to be that guy. I apologize, but I was saying, like, listen,

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Speaker 2: they're that bullpen cannot be as good as it was

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Speaker 2: last year. And I was just like warning people that

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Speaker 2: consume my work. It's just not realistic. It's not fair.

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Speaker 2: That was that bullpen was one of the greatest ones

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Speaker 2: they've had in a season in the history of the franchise.

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Speaker 2: Everything fell into place history shows and I did a

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Speaker 2: study when you have a killer bullpen like that, it

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Speaker 2: almost always regresses the following year, and sometimes dramatically. So

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Speaker 2: I hate to be that guy saying, well, I try

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Speaker 2: to warn everybody, but I guess I'm being that guy

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Speaker 2: for now. I'd like to see, these guys do a

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Speaker 2: lot better because it makes it more interesting when they're

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Speaker 2: a lot better. Because these late games, there's hope that

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Speaker 2: the Cardinals can you put one away. I mean, they

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Speaker 2: lost one game after leading in the eighth inning all

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Speaker 2: year last year, forty nine to one. They've already lost

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Speaker 2: one this year and the season is twelve games old.

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Speaker 3: Is crazy, I know.

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Speaker 2: See, there's there's no way that can be replicated. It

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Speaker 2: just can't happen.

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Speaker 3: And listen to you, Bernie, because I was a bullpen believer,

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Speaker 3: and I'm sorry to doubt. I'm sorry.

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Speaker 2: Like I said, I did say I was being insufferable,

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Speaker 2: so at least I owned up to it.

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Speaker 1: But no, I get it, and I think you're spot on.

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Speaker 1: And here's the problem with this pitching staff as a whole.

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Speaker 1: We already knew the starting rotation was again despite years

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Speaker 1: and years of this not working, a pitch to contact

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Speaker 1: staff the bullpen, with the exception of Brian Helsley and

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Speaker 1: to an extent, film Aiton to an extent slightly, is

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Speaker 1: a pitch to contact staff. These guys hells excluded. They

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Speaker 1: do not have any overpowering stuff. He plays this day

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Speaker 1: and age. The Cardinals are still stuck ten years ago.

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Speaker 1: Stop me if you heard that before on a pitch

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Speaker 1: to contact philosophy. That does not play. And they got

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Speaker 1: away with it for so long because they were exceptional

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Speaker 1: at defensive positioning and they're athletic, and this club defensively

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Speaker 1: is really sound, and it's going to help guys like Polante.

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Speaker 1: It's gonna help guys like Betty McGreevy when he gets

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Speaker 1: up here. But to you know, let's point out Miles

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Speaker 1: Michael's to start last Sunday. They're hitting the ball and

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Speaker 1: it's not at someone you're in trouble. And that's the staff.

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Speaker 1: That's the definition of the Saint Louis Cardinals' pitching staff,

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Speaker 1: whether you're a starter or a reliever, pitch to contact

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Speaker 1: average VLO guys are sitting ninety two ninety three. That

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Speaker 1: doesn't play in this day and age. When you see

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Speaker 1: it every single day, I think the Saint Louis Cardinals

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Speaker 1: are like the easiest team to game plan against because

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Speaker 1: we're seeing the same pitcher every single day, every single inning.

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Speaker 3: Oh the same guy.

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Speaker 1: Maybe a little different arsenal, but hey, they've got weaker stuff.

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Speaker 1: They pitched to contact and it's easy to game plan

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Speaker 1: against so that I don't know. I think it's frustrating, definitely.

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Speaker 1: I don't think we'll see a lot of performances like

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Speaker 1: that from Helsley again, but you might. You might have

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Speaker 1: been onto something Burnie about the bullpen, and I'm not

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Speaker 1: yet going to say that I was wrong, but I'm

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Speaker 1: getting very close. We'll see again, We'll see how they

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Speaker 1: can cover innings. We'll see about the patchwork job. I

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Speaker 1: did think this is an unpopular take. People are gonna

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Speaker 1: hate this. Sorry about it. I thought Ali Marmel did

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Speaker 1: a nice job managing Sunday, not Sunday's game, Wednesday's game.

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Speaker 3: I know they lost in thirteen innings, but that, to

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Speaker 3: me exemplified what this bullpen is capable of doing when

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Speaker 3: everyone's clicking. And that was a like all hands on

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Speaker 3: deck situation.

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Speaker 1: You have Betty for six, you applaud him, he got

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Speaker 1: through four walks and allow a hit, a raised five

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Speaker 1: out of six lead off batters that got on, Like,

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Speaker 1: that's pretty effective. And then you come in and you

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Speaker 1: have Mayton do his job. Great stuff from Helsley or

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Speaker 1: not Helsley Lady in the eighth first time in high

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Speaker 1: leverage that we've seen him in that high leverage of

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Speaker 1: a game, in a scoreless ballgame, and then you just

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Speaker 1: deploy your guys because you know you're going to extras.

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Speaker 3: And this is not like a home game. You have

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Speaker 3: to save your closer for when you have a lead,

432
00:19:58,680 --> 00:19:59,800
Speaker 3: because I'm.

433
00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:01,440
Speaker 1: A home If you're pitching in a tie game, there's

434
00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:04,520
Speaker 1: no bottom of the ninth, tenth, whatever, right, But if

435
00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:08,160
Speaker 1: in away games you have to save Hellesley and they do.

436
00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:11,520
Speaker 1: You see Fernandez come in fix the stuff looked a

437
00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:13,840
Speaker 1: lot better. Great job by Jojo to get out of

438
00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:16,560
Speaker 1: the jam. And by that point, though, Helsey's been up twice,

439
00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:18,760
Speaker 1: and once the reliever gets up twice, you have to

440
00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:20,720
Speaker 1: put him in the ballgame. You can't have him get

441
00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:22,800
Speaker 1: hot a third time and then have him go in.

442
00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:25,560
Speaker 1: You can't have him get up hot twice and pitch multiples.

443
00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:28,000
Speaker 1: That was the inning for Hellsley. I asked Allie Marmal

444
00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:29,320
Speaker 1: about that after the game. I know a lot of

445
00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:31,080
Speaker 1: you on Twitter think that I don't ask all any

446
00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:33,600
Speaker 1: questions after the game, but I'm here too.

447
00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:35,520
Speaker 3: Let you know I do actually do my job.

448
00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:38,520
Speaker 1: And he said Helsey was getting in this game regardless

449
00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:41,320
Speaker 1: he'd sat two days because he'd pitched thirty seven pitches

450
00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:43,760
Speaker 1: on Sunday. But we did not want him to sit

451
00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:46,200
Speaker 1: after a bad outing like that into and off day

452
00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:48,320
Speaker 1: and then the next time he pitches his Friday. Once

453
00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:50,720
Speaker 1: he got up twice, he was going in the game regardless.

454
00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:53,240
Speaker 1: Obviously we had hoped to have a lead to use him.

455
00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:55,480
Speaker 1: That's why he got up twice. But after he got

456
00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:57,639
Speaker 1: hot twice, I'm not doing that to him. He's getting

457
00:20:57,680 --> 00:20:59,920
Speaker 1: in the game, and then after that you're just hoping

458
00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:02,520
Speaker 1: something works. You see Steven Matz come in, nothing you

459
00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:04,240
Speaker 1: can really do with a deep fly ball to write

460
00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:06,800
Speaker 1: and that automatic runner, and then of course Chris Roycroft

461
00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:07,280
Speaker 1: just didn't have it.

462
00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:08,240
Speaker 3: That game spet up on him.

463
00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:10,840
Speaker 1: But in that situation, I'm not quite sure what Alli

464
00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:13,480
Speaker 1: Marmal could have done differently. They scored one run in

465
00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:14,359
Speaker 1: thirteen games.

466
00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:17,000
Speaker 3: I get it, you know, the offense is probably due

467
00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:17,560
Speaker 3: for an off night.

468
00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:19,760
Speaker 1: I don't really want to spend too much time clamoring

469
00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:21,440
Speaker 1: about what has been a very good offensive to start

470
00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:23,720
Speaker 1: the year. I do not think bullpen management was why

471
00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:24,960
Speaker 1: they lost that game on Wednesday.

472
00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:27,720
Speaker 2: Well, you and I totally agree on this, and I

473
00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:31,040
Speaker 2: was just almost taken aback, which is weird to say

474
00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:35,040
Speaker 2: you're taking it back by anything you see on social media.

475
00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:37,600
Speaker 2: But people are just losing their minds over stuff that

476
00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:39,280
Speaker 2: to me, had nothing to do with the fact they

477
00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:43,399
Speaker 2: lost the game. Like people were just going bonkers, just

478
00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:47,240
Speaker 2: going bananas over the fact that he pulled Fetti after

479
00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:52,080
Speaker 2: six innings, and I'm like, well, did we watch a

480
00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:56,840
Speaker 2: different game? What in the hell did that have to

481
00:21:56,880 --> 00:22:00,639
Speaker 2: do with them losing in thirteen innings? I mean, I

482
00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:05,119
Speaker 2: didn't because of Eric Fetti and because Marmel didn't put

483
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:07,480
Speaker 2: him out there for another inning. And I had people,

484
00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:09,920
Speaker 2: even people that I actually respect, saying well, if you

485
00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:12,239
Speaker 2: get an extra inning out of Fetti, then you'll have

486
00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:15,600
Speaker 2: one of your better relievers still available. Everybody gets pushed back,

487
00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:19,520
Speaker 2: and I'm like, wait a minute, So what you're saying

488
00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:22,760
Speaker 2: is like any manager in baseball when he's got a

489
00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:25,120
Speaker 2: decision to make weather to pull the starter, a starter who,

490
00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:26,800
Speaker 2: by the way, was out of gas by that time.

491
00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:28,200
Speaker 3: He was he was tired.

492
00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:30,560
Speaker 2: It was it was a really tough six innings. People

493
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:32,800
Speaker 2: see the no hits and they think, oh, he was

494
00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:35,680
Speaker 2: he was domidating. He was, No, he wasn't so no,

495
00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:37,359
Speaker 2: he wasn't. He had a walk. He had to really

496
00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:39,760
Speaker 2: fight his way out of jams. He walked for five

497
00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:43,000
Speaker 2: of the first five, five leadoff men in the inning,

498
00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:47,560
Speaker 2: got on in six innings. But the people that were

499
00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:50,080
Speaker 2: saying well he should have, yeah, well you see, you know,

500
00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:52,879
Speaker 2: I know baseball, And if you move him, if you

501
00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:54,960
Speaker 2: give him another inning, well then you're going to have

502
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:58,520
Speaker 2: an extra bullet in the chamber later. And and I

503
00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:00,800
Speaker 2: know I'm randy, but my point being is, like what

504
00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:03,800
Speaker 2: manager in the history of the game sits in the

505
00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:06,960
Speaker 2: sixth inning and he's got his bullpen lined up to

506
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:11,760
Speaker 2: cover the seventh, eighth, ninth, tenth, even eleventh. What manager

507
00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:15,200
Speaker 2: sits there says, well, I better get an extra inning

508
00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:19,399
Speaker 2: out of Fetti even though he's gassed, because I know,

509
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:24,119
Speaker 2: I know this game's gonna go thirteen innings, Like.

510
00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:27,080
Speaker 3: It's gonna make that same reference. Who does that?

511
00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:31,080
Speaker 2: Like what manager sits It's like you sit there, like

512
00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:36,200
Speaker 2: what manager is thinking six innings ahead at the end

513
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:37,960
Speaker 2: of the sixth right exactly?

514
00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:39,600
Speaker 1: And when was the last time, seriously, when was the

515
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:41,639
Speaker 1: last time the Cardinals on thirteen innings? Because by the

516
00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:45,800
Speaker 1: eleventh I was getting both annoyed and also scared because

517
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:47,800
Speaker 1: all three of the Cardinals beat writers on that trip

518
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:49,600
Speaker 1: had a seven pm flight out of Pittsburgh.

519
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:52,000
Speaker 3: Oh, we're looking at the clock and we're like, uh

520
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:53,120
Speaker 3: oh oh.

521
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:59,600
Speaker 2: No, I just my goodness. It's like, listen, I Ole

522
00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:02,880
Speaker 2: and I you have a unique relationship because he knows

523
00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:06,119
Speaker 2: that I jump on him for stuff. I mean, he

524
00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:09,320
Speaker 2: knows that I really get after him on stuff. But

525
00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:14,520
Speaker 2: let's try to be fair, you know, like, why are

526
00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:18,040
Speaker 2: people going nuts over what I thought were inconsequential things?

527
00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:22,040
Speaker 2: My good friends, they scored one run in thirteen innings,

528
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:24,840
Speaker 2: they went three for fifteen with runners in scoring position,

529
00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:27,560
Speaker 2: They lost three runners on the basis.

530
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:31,360
Speaker 3: They didn't play well and not play the good baseball game.

531
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:33,679
Speaker 2: And we're talking about Eric Fetti.

532
00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:34,920
Speaker 3: What yes?

533
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:37,480
Speaker 1: And it's so funny, Bernie, because I was thinking the

534
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 1: same thing, Like I had a couple of fans, and look,

535
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:43,520
Speaker 1: I love fan engagement and sometimes I kind of want

536
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:45,080
Speaker 1: to pull my hair out, But I also like, I

537
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:46,720
Speaker 1: understand you care about the sport.

538
00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:49,040
Speaker 3: You're not watching this podcast. We don't care about the Cardinals,

539
00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:49,879
Speaker 3: So I get it.

540
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:52,440
Speaker 1: And I will never stop trying to answer questions as

541
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:53,320
Speaker 1: often as I can.

542
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:55,560
Speaker 3: You guys could ask them a little bit more nicely

543
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:55,879
Speaker 3: to me.

544
00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:59,760
Speaker 1: But other than I will always try to find if

545
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:01,800
Speaker 1: there's something that you want to know or an explanation,

546
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 1: I will do my best to get it. But when

547
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:07,240
Speaker 1: you're asking me why Chris Roycroft was in the game

548
00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:10,960
Speaker 1: after the Cardinals have already used seven other pitchers, who

549
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:13,080
Speaker 1: else is supposed to be there? Luke and Baker like,

550
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:15,840
Speaker 1: I get it, you want the best for your outcome

551
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:18,119
Speaker 1: for your team, but really in that case, there was

552
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:21,800
Speaker 1: nothing anyone could do except someone try to score, and

553
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:24,760
Speaker 1: eventually the Pirates did. So we'll get to I think

554
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:27,560
Speaker 1: a big concern and it's a hot topic in Cardinals

555
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 1: land about Wilson Contreras.

556
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:33,800
Speaker 3: But first we need to hear from our pals.

557
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:35,919
Speaker 1: It's time. It's time for me to forget where I

558
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:44,080
Speaker 1: put it on this sight our friends at fandel Sports Network,

559
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:48,960
Speaker 1: you can now stream the Saint Louis Cardinals through FanDuel

560
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,440
Speaker 1: Sports Network and if you use the promo code Baseball thirty,

561
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 1: you can start it off with a thirty day extended

562
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:58,520
Speaker 1: free trial at fanduelsportsnetwork dot com slash packages. This deal

563
00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:01,239
Speaker 1: expires May second, twenty two, twenty five, nineteen ninety nine,

564
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:03,840
Speaker 1: a month after your free trial canceled. During your free

565
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 1: trial to avoid charges, eligibility restrictions apply. Visit fanduelsportsnetwork dot

566
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:13,800
Speaker 1: com for details. We are going to launch right in

567
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 1: to our player to watch, presented by Fandelsports Network. That

568
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:23,320
Speaker 1: player is Wilson Contreras. It has not been a good

569
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:26,280
Speaker 1: start for the Saint Louis Cardinals first baseman.

570
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:31,240
Speaker 3: He is a ghastly what is it? Five four forty nine?

571
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:35,160
Speaker 3: Am I right? I think I'm one three.

572
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:39,440
Speaker 1: I know that I nine with twenty two strikeouts. That

573
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:41,960
Speaker 1: is not what you want from your number two hitter.

574
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:46,440
Speaker 1: We talked to Wilson after the game on Wednesday because

575
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:48,400
Speaker 1: I think the big question that we're seeing, other than

576
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 1: the normal bullpen whatever you guys want to call it discourse,

577
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:56,639
Speaker 1: I would call it something else, has been is a

578
00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:59,399
Speaker 1: time to move Wilson controllers down in the lineup, and

579
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:01,639
Speaker 1: that is a question been asking around.

580
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:04,120
Speaker 3: But I want to talk to Wilson first to see

581
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:04,959
Speaker 3: how he was feeling.

582
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:07,439
Speaker 1: So talked to him after the game yesterday and he

583
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:10,119
Speaker 1: was asked if this was a surprising start to the

584
00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:13,639
Speaker 1: season for him, given how well his spring training went, contrarists,

585
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 1: if you remember hit nearly five hundred in spring training,

586
00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:20,960
Speaker 1: and this is I'm going to read the quote from Contraras,

587
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 1: spring doesn't mean shit, oppose it, which is true. Opposing

588
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:27,640
Speaker 1: pictures aren't game planning. They are just throwing fastballs down

589
00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:30,119
Speaker 1: the middle. If you watch my advice, I'm not getting

590
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:32,600
Speaker 1: any fastballs and I'm not getting a good pitch to hit.

591
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:35,760
Speaker 3: I'm probably over swinging trying to do something I need

592
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:36,680
Speaker 3: to get better at that.

593
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:39,919
Speaker 1: There are no excuses for me to not get better,

594
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 1: and Contraras here is spot on. If you watch how

595
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 1: opposing pictures are sequencing against him, he is rarely seeing

596
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:50,200
Speaker 1: a fastball. It's breaking ball, breaking ball, slider, off speed,

597
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 1: anything except a fastball because he cannot pick up the spin.

598
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 1: And the more that opposing pictures know that, the more

599
00:27:57,800 --> 00:27:59,320
Speaker 1: they're going to throw it at him, and the more

600
00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:00,960
Speaker 1: he's going to be come in this. I have to

601
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,240
Speaker 1: swing hard to get out of it. He doesn't look

602
00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:07,440
Speaker 1: comfortable in the box at all. He looks frustrated. We

603
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:10,440
Speaker 1: asked him, you know, hey, Ollie has said and yours

604
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 1: prior you maybe have broken a couple things. Maybe there's

605
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:17,359
Speaker 1: been a batrack displaced from the wall or you know,

606
00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 1: broken chair or something, and he goes, yeah, I haven't

607
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:22,680
Speaker 1: done that this year. Maybe that's hurting me. Actually, maybe

608
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:24,880
Speaker 1: it's not helping me like I think it is. So

609
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:27,280
Speaker 1: sorry in advance to the clubhouse attendance at Bush Stadium.

610
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 1: But I'm wondering, Bernie, from your perspective, given how the

611
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:33,680
Speaker 1: rest of the lineup shapes out and is looking, is

612
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 1: it time to drop Controra's in the order, And if so,

613
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:37,359
Speaker 1: why aren't the Cardinals doing it.

614
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 2: That's a great question. And I'm usually inclined to say, well,

615
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:44,760
Speaker 2: you know, what's the hurry, what's the rush? Except the

616
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:48,480
Speaker 2: memory of Paul Goldschmith stays with me. Oli stayed with

617
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:50,240
Speaker 2: him in the two hole or moved him to the

618
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 2: three hole and put him at clean up, like he

619
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:54,080
Speaker 2: was trying to find a spot for me, and Goldie

620
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:56,400
Speaker 2: was just not producing. He was putting a lot of

621
00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 2: pressure on himself when he was bat like second, third

622
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 2: and fourth right. Ollie finally backed off that and he

623
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:04,560
Speaker 2: started moving him down in the lineup. And I looked

624
00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 2: up these numbers today. I'm not going to read the numbers,

625
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 2: but when when Goldie last season batted fifth, sixth or seventh,

626
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:16,120
Speaker 2: his numbers were fantastic. And I really think that contraras

627
00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 2: it would be a good mental break for him. Not well,

628
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:22,200
Speaker 2: you're batting second. That's a really important role because that's

629
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 2: in the way baseball is now. As you know, and

630
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:27,160
Speaker 2: a lot of people know, the belief as you put

631
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 2: your best hitter second. Okay, that also means you bet

632
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:33,479
Speaker 2: your best hitter. If he's batting second, if he's not

633
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:38,080
Speaker 2: getting anything done, then they're fortunate the offense hasn't suffered,

634
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 2: because the offense has been really good except for yesterday.

635
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 2: But I think it would do him well. This is

636
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 2: much like it did Goldie well to get out of

637
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:50,000
Speaker 2: that hotspot. It gives him a chance to regroup if

638
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 2: you're you know, batting lower in the order. And I

639
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,480
Speaker 2: think that that is it's just it's a move that

640
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:58,520
Speaker 2: makes sense. It just makes sense. The other thing is

641
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 2: what Wilson is going to have to do. Is Wilson

642
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 2: part of the cliche. He's getting himself out. He's got

643
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 2: a forty one percent strike rate, He's swinging at everything,

644
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 2: and his his control of the strike zone is so bad,

645
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:13,680
Speaker 2: you know, Statcast has a thing where, you know, you

646
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 2: can look at the pitches that go to the heart

647
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:18,160
Speaker 2: of the plate, the meat balls right down the middle,

648
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 2: what every every hitter wants. Wilson is so messed up,

649
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:27,160
Speaker 2: you know, just in between swinging its stuff way off

650
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:30,240
Speaker 2: the plate, letting not being able to do anything with

651
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:32,600
Speaker 2: stuff that comes down the middle on those heart of

652
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:36,360
Speaker 2: the plate pitches. So far, he's oh for eighteen, I mean.

653
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:39,200
Speaker 3: That's not that's not Wilson as a hitter. That's no.

654
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:39,360
Speaker 1: No.

655
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 2: So I mean he's he's going, you know, he's lunging

656
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:45,200
Speaker 2: after stuff he shouldn't swing at. And then he and

657
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 2: then he it's like when he gets one right down

658
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:50,360
Speaker 2: the middle, it's almost like he's surprised or something. It's

659
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 2: his head's not in a good space right now. And

660
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:56,240
Speaker 2: I think very highly of this guy. He's a very

661
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 2: proud man. But his head space ears needs to be

662
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 2: cleared out of a little bit, moving him down and

663
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:03,160
Speaker 2: the order would do that, It would help do that.

664
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:05,440
Speaker 3: Anyway, I don't disagree.

665
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 1: My counter argument is, and here's where the Cardinals are at.

666
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 1: Who do they have to put in the two hole?

667
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:14,440
Speaker 1: This is an entirely different situation. If Yvonne Herrera was

668
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 1: not injured. By the way, I was vindicated. I was

669
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:19,920
Speaker 1: vindicated for those who missed it for about three innings

670
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:23,240
Speaker 1: when yvon Herrera was the number two hitter on Sunday

671
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:24,600
Speaker 1: in game one of the doubleheader.

672
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 3: Now, did he get hurt that game, yes, but for

673
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:30,720
Speaker 3: three innings. I was smart, dam I just wanted to

674
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:31,320
Speaker 3: point that out.

675
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:34,920
Speaker 1: But if they have a hitter like Herrera still on there,

676
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:36,520
Speaker 1: levon Herrera in case you missed it. By the way,

677
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:38,560
Speaker 1: we'll miss at least four weeks with a bone bruise

678
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:41,080
Speaker 1: in his left knee. No structural damage, so that's good,

679
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:43,840
Speaker 1: but a significant blow to the offense. He was on

680
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 1: fire before his injury.

681
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:45,760
Speaker 2: There.

682
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:48,680
Speaker 1: If they have Herrera, that's an easy swap. You put

683
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:51,040
Speaker 1: Herrera up in the two hole, you drop Contreras down

684
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 1: to maybe five or six.

685
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:54,000
Speaker 3: We've talked about this before.

686
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:56,520
Speaker 1: I like how all the stacks is line up lefty, righty,

687
00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 1: left you righty. It's very difficult to game plan against.

688
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:02,440
Speaker 1: It works well, it clicks, but there's no one that's

689
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:05,240
Speaker 1: screaming at me. That's a right handed bat that can

690
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 1: go be in the two hole. Now, the County argument

691
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:10,440
Speaker 1: is well new Bar and Donovan are hitting really well.

692
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:11,800
Speaker 3: I mean really well.

693
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 1: Donovan was thirteen for twenty three on the road trip,

694
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:16,280
Speaker 1: maybe like the lone bright spot of that trip. So

695
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:17,960
Speaker 1: could you stack your lefties one two?

696
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 3: You could?

697
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 1: But then it becomes really easy to game plan because

698
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 1: you think about when that lineup turns over and you

699
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 1: have you go Victor, Scott Mason Win lefty lefty and

700
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 1: new Bar, Donovan, whomever, and with Nolan Gorman on the bench,

701
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:34,240
Speaker 1: it's really hard to game plan against that if you're allie,

702
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 1: because opposing managers are going to look at that lefty

703
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 1: lane and that's where they're going to bring in their.

704
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:41,040
Speaker 3: High leverage relievers. So then you're going to go to

705
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:43,000
Speaker 3: your bench and you're going to put in Luken Baker

706
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 3: and then you're going to take away in a bat

707
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 3: from Lars Newbar or Brendan Donovan.

708
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:50,760
Speaker 1: Is that really what you want to do because it's

709
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 1: easier to play the matchups and you don't have Nolan

710
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:55,600
Speaker 1: Gorman to combat that as a left handed bat off

711
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 1: the bench to reverse it. So it's a complicated thing

712
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 1: and it's a little nitpicky, but I understand where the

713
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:02,480
Speaker 1: Cardinals are coming from. They want to make sure that

714
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 1: Nubar and Donovan keep finding themselves in positions to succeed,

715
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:07,640
Speaker 1: and they found that in the leadoff spot and the

716
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:10,480
Speaker 1: three hole Donnie and down lower a course against lefties.

717
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:12,600
Speaker 1: But I don't know if there's a right handed bat

718
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 1: that profiles better right now in the number two hole.

719
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:21,400
Speaker 2: Do you well at this moment? No, But what about

720
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 2: Mason Wyn if he continues to hit well, like he's

721
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:27,000
Speaker 2: on a bit of a heater now, if he continues

722
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 2: to hit well, I don't want him batting line batting first,

723
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:31,720
Speaker 2: but I could see him batting second in the lineup

724
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:34,200
Speaker 2: for reasons that you just kind of laid out. I'm

725
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 2: just saying he's a candidate, you know, the.

726
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:38,400
Speaker 1: Candidate, but there's not many I don't think they would

727
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:39,960
Speaker 1: do that to him, and I don't think that's good

728
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:43,160
Speaker 1: for Mason, given that he's just now figuring it out. Also,

729
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 1: I just love the victor of Mason tandem at the

730
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 1: bottom of the order.

731
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:50,400
Speaker 2: That's true too. And this gets into sort of the

732
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:54,080
Speaker 2: they're overloaded with left handed bats. And I'm not saying, oh, well,

733
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:56,960
Speaker 2: Thomas A. Jac would be that guy. I'm not saying that,

734
00:33:57,320 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 2: but he's a right handed hitter. He's got some talent,

735
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:03,120
Speaker 2: and at some point he'll be a regular part of

736
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:05,600
Speaker 2: the team. He just has to wait in line for now.

737
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:08,360
Speaker 2: But that's a right handed bet that could be useful

738
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 2: to you down the road. But in this moment in time, No,

739
00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:15,040
Speaker 2: I wouldn't say let put JC batting second, because, first

740
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:16,640
Speaker 2: of all, how many games is he going to start?

741
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:21,520
Speaker 2: So you tip of the cap, You brilliantly have diagnosed this.

742
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:23,600
Speaker 2: It's not as easy if it's just a lot.

743
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:25,799
Speaker 1: Of people telling me I was stupid and explaining it

744
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:27,080
Speaker 1: to me all the way around.

745
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:29,080
Speaker 2: No, and I'm not even I don't even have a

746
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:31,960
Speaker 2: cheat sheet because I'm wondering why I'm forgetting somebody. But

747
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:32,759
Speaker 2: I don't think I am.

748
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:34,879
Speaker 1: Actually No, I mean, you're not gonna put Jordan Walker

749
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:37,560
Speaker 1: on the two hole. He looks great where he's that's

750
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:40,640
Speaker 1: the problem. Everyone else looks great where they're at.

751
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:42,880
Speaker 3: So if you messed that, if you mess up with that,

752
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:45,839
Speaker 3: you risk hurting the offense in a different way.

753
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:50,800
Speaker 1: The easy, easy fixed to this is Contrara's just figuring

754
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:52,760
Speaker 1: it out, and that's what they're going to keep doing.

755
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 1: If if Herrera was still here, if Herrera was available,

756
00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:57,200
Speaker 1: we saw it already.

757
00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:57,880
Speaker 3: They would have done the switch.

758
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:00,840
Speaker 1: And the only reason Contrara's is batting in that lineup

759
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:03,560
Speaker 1: was because they were facing a lefty and Sean newcom Now,

760
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:05,839
Speaker 1: if they're facing a righty, I think only Marma would

761
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 1: have dropped Contrarasts even lower but still kept Herrera in

762
00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:10,239
Speaker 1: the two hole. They're not going to have Herrera until

763
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:13,840
Speaker 1: at least another month. Their best line here is to

764
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:16,840
Speaker 1: just hope Contreras can figure it out. And to his credit,

765
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:20,520
Speaker 1: he's working at it and he's you know, players like

766
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:21,920
Speaker 1: that after a series like that.

767
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:23,440
Speaker 3: Can easily blow off the media.

768
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:24,920
Speaker 1: And I could tell from his face he kind of

769
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:27,320
Speaker 1: wanted to, but he didn't, and he answered the questions.

770
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:29,120
Speaker 1: And you just have to hope he gets on track

771
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:31,120
Speaker 1: because he's such a key piece to this ball club.

772
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:34,560
Speaker 2: Well, and maybe you know, we're all very impressed by

773
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:36,560
Speaker 2: the quality of walkers at bats.

774
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:37,279
Speaker 3: We are.

775
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:43,200
Speaker 2: It's really impressive his patients. Even that RBI single yesterday's

776
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:45,960
Speaker 2: coming off the bench. Now, look, I know he he

777
00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:49,000
Speaker 2: sort of chopped one through the right side, but the

778
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:51,520
Speaker 2: picture was on the mound for the Pirates, a right

779
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:55,440
Speaker 2: handed side arm guy who's throwing stuff that tails away

780
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:58,600
Speaker 2: from right handed hitters. That's his weakness, and that's his weakness.

781
00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:01,600
Speaker 2: I mean, he hung in there really really well, and

782
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:03,960
Speaker 2: when he got something to hit, it's not like he

783
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:05,760
Speaker 2: hit a bomb. It's not like he hit a gapper,

784
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 2: but he knew he did enough to know, Okay, I've

785
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:11,640
Speaker 2: just got to if nothing else, punched this ball through

786
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:13,600
Speaker 2: the right side. And that's what he did. That was

787
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:15,600
Speaker 2: a hell of an at bat. It made him not

788
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:17,440
Speaker 2: been the most beautiful hit, but it was a hell

789
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:21,879
Speaker 2: of inn at bat. So maybe Walker would be When

790
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:25,440
Speaker 2: do you entertain, hypothetically, when do you entertain the possibility

791
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:27,760
Speaker 2: of him moving into a more prominent spot in the lineup?

792
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:31,200
Speaker 2: Is that something that you would speed that up if

793
00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:34,960
Speaker 2: he has another couple of good weeks. It's just kind

794
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:36,840
Speaker 2: of stuff to put on the table to talk about.

795
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:40,280
Speaker 1: I don't know, I'm not sure I wouldn't, just because

796
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:42,960
Speaker 1: this is such a critical year to get Jordan Walker right.

797
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 1: You know, why rush him into a different situation or

798
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:49,480
Speaker 1: a new situation if he's finally finding success where he is.

799
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:51,719
Speaker 1: And I mean, I think a perfect example of this

800
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:54,239
Speaker 1: is the catch he made Tuesday night Final play of

801
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:55,600
Speaker 1: the game, so we didn't have a lot of time.

802
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:57,920
Speaker 3: To talk about it. It saved the game. That was

803
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:00,959
Speaker 3: a catch off the baut the sound on a barrel.

804
00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:03,319
Speaker 3: Full disclosure. I closed my eyes because of how we

805
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:05,480
Speaker 3: were going extras, and I.

806
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 1: Didn't hear I mean, there were like four people at

807
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:08,799
Speaker 1: the game. I didn't hear any crowd cheering, and so

808
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:11,960
Speaker 1: I like, oh, my eyes, and game's over. So I'm like, okay,

809
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 1: and I go back and I watch it.

810
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:19,000
Speaker 3: And if you can just see the read, Jordan Walker's

811
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:21,880
Speaker 3: first step off contact is right where it needs to be.

812
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:23,640
Speaker 3: It's a great route. He's running.

813
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:25,279
Speaker 1: He's running and he puts his arm up and you

814
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:27,279
Speaker 1: think he's like flailing, he's not going to get it,

815
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:30,080
Speaker 1: snags it easy money, cracks a joke to Victor Scott,

816
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:31,840
Speaker 1: and I'm like, that is a play he would not

817
00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:34,279
Speaker 1: have made last year. And he knew off the bat

818
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 1: exactly where to go, what to do, because he's finally

819
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:37,600
Speaker 1: being put.

820
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:40,279
Speaker 3: In a position to succeed. If you've read my work

821
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:40,440
Speaker 3: at the.

822
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:42,840
Speaker 1: Athletic for a while, that was a common point I

823
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:45,040
Speaker 1: was making in twenty four that the Cardinals were not

824
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:47,040
Speaker 1: ever putting Walker in a position to succeed.

825
00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:47,680
Speaker 3: Now.

826
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:49,759
Speaker 1: They are a lot of work from John Jay in

827
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:51,920
Speaker 1: the outfield, a lot of time spent with Olie Marmel

828
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:53,000
Speaker 1: trying to figure him out.

829
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:54,960
Speaker 3: I see the same thing offensively.

830
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:57,440
Speaker 1: It's going to take some time, but I don't see

831
00:37:57,480 --> 00:37:59,160
Speaker 1: the need to kind of rush him around. I really

832
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:00,719
Speaker 1: like where Jordan Walker is that right now.

833
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:05,200
Speaker 2: I you know, correct me if I'm wrong, please, because

834
00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:08,040
Speaker 2: I can't claim that I've watched every at bat of

835
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:11,040
Speaker 2: every game they've played. I have a short attention span

836
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:14,799
Speaker 2: and I'm always doing different things. But anyway, has there

837
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:17,600
Speaker 2: been one play in right field this year so far

838
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:21,040
Speaker 2: where you're kind of holding your breath or even if

839
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:23,319
Speaker 2: he makes the catch, it just looked wobbly, It looks

840
00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 2: kind of shaky. It looked almost like lucky. For all

841
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:29,919
Speaker 2: the plays that I've seen, he just seems like very

842
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:34,400
Speaker 2: self assured, very calm. Yeah, confident.

843
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:38,759
Speaker 1: That's Ali is confident. Because we talked about this a

844
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:40,879
Speaker 1: couple of days ago. He said, no, he's confident. There,

845
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:43,560
Speaker 1: more more comfortable, and it's going to continue to get better.

846
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:44,960
Speaker 1: And I'm not saying that he is going to be

847
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:47,239
Speaker 1: some all star right fielder, but I'm saying that for

848
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:49,359
Speaker 1: the first time in two years, it looks like this

849
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:52,480
Speaker 1: could work for them. And that's a testament a lot

850
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:53,880
Speaker 1: of it to Jordan and a lot of it to

851
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:54,600
Speaker 1: John Jay.

852
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:57,799
Speaker 2: And and you know, I'm sure Bran Brown's helped clear

853
00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:00,760
Speaker 2: has had a little bit from the hitting side. Coaching

854
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:04,720
Speaker 2: does matter. And to me, Jordan Walker was a victim

855
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:07,680
Speaker 2: of all of the things that were wrong with their

856
00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:11,560
Speaker 2: player development system. And just here, you know, they just

857
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:14,479
Speaker 2: they just plopped the guy in right field after never

858
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:16,799
Speaker 2: even giving him much time at all in the minor

859
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:20,040
Speaker 2: leagues to work at playing right field. It's just like, oh,

860
00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:23,440
Speaker 2: double A, you had two or three weeks of games

861
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:25,520
Speaker 2: in right field down in Double A. Oh you're starting

862
00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:27,160
Speaker 2: right fielder in the major league. He didn't even know

863
00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:28,800
Speaker 2: how to play the visit, he didn't know how to

864
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:31,560
Speaker 2: play the position. You know, how do you do that

865
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:34,440
Speaker 2: to a guy? They did it. It tells me. It

866
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:40,279
Speaker 2: tells me Walker's got a lot of character, a lot

867
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:43,759
Speaker 2: of desire to be really, really good. And he I

868
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:46,680
Speaker 2: must say, Katie, I've wondered about him in the past.

869
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:51,000
Speaker 2: He's a good person, don't get me wrong, But was

870
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:54,799
Speaker 2: he someone who was receptive to coaching, you know, and

871
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:57,480
Speaker 2: I wondered whether some of it is like they're telling

872
00:39:57,560 --> 00:39:59,960
Speaker 2: him some decent things and he's just sort of reject

873
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:03,879
Speaker 2: thing everything where he's not buying into it. I think

874
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:06,840
Speaker 2: the winter warm up we saw when he appeared on

875
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:10,040
Speaker 2: the podium, you know, whoa where did this guy come from?

876
00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:12,760
Speaker 2: He's breaking down his Yeah, he's breaking down his swing

877
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:16,279
Speaker 2: and he's excited about what he's worked on. So this

878
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:18,680
Speaker 2: the coaching has made a world of difference for him

879
00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:22,640
Speaker 2: so far. And it also just makes me sick that

880
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:25,319
Speaker 2: how poorly they brought him along.

881
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:26,600
Speaker 3: On this one.

882
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:28,440
Speaker 1: Don't give me tired on this one because I have

883
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:32,319
Speaker 1: a lot to say, none of it nice, but I'm

884
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:35,239
Speaker 1: with you. Let me just say I'm with you last

885
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:38,600
Speaker 1: thing before we head out. Okay, the Cardinals will welcome

886
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:42,520
Speaker 1: the Philadelphia Phillies, who are They play the Atlanta Braves

887
00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:46,040
Speaker 1: tonight in Atlanta. They will face the probables for the Phillies,

888
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:51,480
Speaker 1: Maar Nola, Christopher Sanchez, and Zach Wheeler, So go get

889
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:51,920
Speaker 1: them boys.

890
00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:54,080
Speaker 3: That will be a good test for the offense.

891
00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:56,360
Speaker 1: The Cardinals, on the other hand, will throw Andre Polante,

892
00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:57,480
Speaker 1: Miles Michaelis and.

893
00:40:59,120 --> 00:40:59,880
Speaker 3: That's the Liberatory.

894
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:04,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, well all right, Hey, if you want to recover

895
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:06,319
Speaker 2: from that road trip, you win the Philly series, right,

896
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 2: you feel a lot better about yourself you.

897
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:12,480
Speaker 1: Winning, given how the problems I just read. If a

898
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:14,480
Speaker 1: Cardinals take two or three out of Philly from Philly,

899
00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:18,200
Speaker 1: that would be a very impressive feat.

900
00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:20,920
Speaker 2: Can I ask you one thing? And I don't you know,

901
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:22,440
Speaker 2: I know you want to tight schedule. It's a quest.

902
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:24,239
Speaker 2: I'm not going I'm not horsing around with this one.

903
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:26,480
Speaker 2: I'm not going to ask you about your social plans

904
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:26,879
Speaker 2: or whatever.

905
00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:28,960
Speaker 3: No, I'm going to take an out.

906
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:33,959
Speaker 2: Did you see anything during this road trip or during

907
00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:37,440
Speaker 2: the last nine games that tells you that confident, you know,

908
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:39,640
Speaker 2: cocky in a good way team that came out of

909
00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:41,680
Speaker 2: spring training. We're going to show the world and them.

910
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:44,759
Speaker 2: Have you seen any any signs of that wavering a

911
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:45,200
Speaker 2: little bit?

912
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:48,799
Speaker 3: I that's a good question. I don't want to say

913
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:52,480
Speaker 3: it was wavering. I think they just wanted to get

914
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:55,560
Speaker 3: out of Pittsburgh, and I get it. I mean it

915
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:58,839
Speaker 3: was miserable outside, and I just think they were like, man,

916
00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:00,920
Speaker 3: I want to go home. I want to go back

917
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:02,480
Speaker 3: to Saint Louis. Like, let's figure it. I think they

918
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:04,400
Speaker 3: just needed to recharge, They needed a reset. It was

919
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:08,480
Speaker 3: not a good road trip. If the doubleheader really.

920
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:11,440
Speaker 1: Like killed some or crushed some people, killed their spirits.

921
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:15,600
Speaker 1: I ran into Nolan Arnatto before Monday's game and he

922
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:18,360
Speaker 1: I was like, are you good? He goes this doubleheader

923
00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:20,840
Speaker 1: crushed me and he's like, I think I'm sick. And

924
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:22,880
Speaker 1: then he was ended ended up being scratched. So I

925
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:24,480
Speaker 1: don't want to say it's wavery and I still think

926
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:27,240
Speaker 1: they're a confident bunch. I liked the fight that they showed,

927
00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:28,880
Speaker 1: even in that blowout on ESPN.

928
00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:31,040
Speaker 3: We'll have a good test to see where they're at

929
00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:33,359
Speaker 3: after an off day. I would not read too much

930
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:37,759
Speaker 3: into the results from a you know, personality standpoint, if

931
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:39,360
Speaker 3: you will. I just think the team really wanted to

932
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:40,719
Speaker 3: go to Pittsburgh.

933
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:43,440
Speaker 2: Makes sense, makes kind of look kind of looked like it.

934
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:47,200
Speaker 3: Uh, it looked like a getaway game yesterday. Not both

935
00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:47,880
Speaker 3: from both teams.

936
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:51,399
Speaker 1: Both teams were like this enough already to the point

937
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:53,160
Speaker 1: where they just couldn't put it away either side.

938
00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:57,839
Speaker 2: And there's that word again, reset, Reset time for.

939
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:02,320
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, season, all right, that's always It was a pleasure.

940
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:04,200
Speaker 3: Anything else no, no, no.

941
00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:06,399
Speaker 2: Wonderful to talk with you as always. Thanks for having

942
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:08,760
Speaker 2: me on with you one Cardinal Territory.

943
00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:11,400
Speaker 3: Love it, part of my favorite one of my favorite

944
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:11,960
Speaker 3: things of the week.

945
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:14,000
Speaker 1: We'll be back with you at some point next week

946
00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:18,399
Speaker 1: Philly's in Town Astros after for Bernie Nicholas. I'm Katie

947
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:31,240
Speaker 1: wo Thanks for watching Cardinal Territory.