1 00:00:01,560 --> 00:00:05,080 Speaker 1: Hey, Welcome to Big Fish Small Pod. I'm Andrew Erdahl. 2 00:00:05,680 --> 00:00:10,520 Speaker 1: Today is August twenty fourth, and the Marlins face off 3 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:13,760 Speaker 1: against the Oakland Athletics today at three point thirty seven 4 00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:19,640 Speaker 1: pm Eastern Standard Time. Heads up to ye jesus Lozardo 5 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:25,279 Speaker 1: getting a start against his former team should be yeah, 6 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:32,520 Speaker 1: ball game. But for now, I have some information about 7 00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:38,639 Speaker 1: the Oakland Athletics that I've found. Knowing not a lot 8 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:43,960 Speaker 1: about the Oakland Athletics myself, I'm really even kind of 9 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:48,519 Speaker 1: using Moneyball as a bit of an access point to 10 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 1: the Oakland A's hearing about them through that, reading the book, 11 00:00:54,720 --> 00:01:00,080 Speaker 1: seeing the film, and watching these games into Oakland, and 12 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:08,720 Speaker 1: definitely what I've noticed is the crowd or uh, well, 13 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:14,040 Speaker 1: I don't I don't want to make any jokes, but yeah, 14 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 1: it's been prominent. This doesn't seem like some like cutting 15 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:24,760 Speaker 1: edge franchise doing the most with what it has, like 16 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:30,120 Speaker 1: Moneyball kind of portrays it really like Moneyball. We're talking 17 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 1: about like a two thousand and two book about the 18 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 1: one hundred and three wins season the Oakland A's had. 19 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:39,600 Speaker 1: They lost in the National League Divisional Series. Their team 20 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:43,199 Speaker 1: had some stars to it. Barry Zito was the Sally 21 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 1: Young Award winner that year, Miguel tay Hota the al MVP, 22 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:55,840 Speaker 1: among other like star caliber players like Ted Lilly Eric 23 00:01:55,920 --> 00:02:02,280 Speaker 1: Chavez certainly prominent players in their time. And if you're 24 00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:05,640 Speaker 1: unfamiliar with the story, the whole real like conceit is 25 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 1: that the Oakland A's can't afford to keep around their 26 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:15,079 Speaker 1: good players, their Jason Giambi, So how can they replace 27 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 1: them without giving up ground in the standings and without 28 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 1: spending the money that it would take to keep those 29 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:28,280 Speaker 1: players around. So it's a story of innovation written. The 30 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:30,919 Speaker 1: book Moneyball of the Art of Winning an Unfair Game 31 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:34,400 Speaker 1: by Michael Lewis came out in two thousand and three, 32 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:38,919 Speaker 1: and it did follow Billy Bean, the then gm current 33 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:44,120 Speaker 1: executive vice president of the Oakland A's in their process 34 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:46,640 Speaker 1: of the twenty twenty two season, like getting into the 35 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 1: draft class, synthesizing that like scouting old school perspective of 36 00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:56,680 Speaker 1: watching the game and seeing what happens there, and then 37 00:02:56,680 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 1: the new school like analytic perspective of what did the 38 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:05,919 Speaker 1: stats say, who's doing what when? Pretty key to their 39 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 1: perspective at the time was favoring on base percentage, valuing 40 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 1: like the walk being a valid way to get on 41 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 1: base in tandem with like batting average. The walk really 42 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 1: just was not considered to be such a big thing 43 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:27,320 Speaker 1: at the time, and so this was something of like 44 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:30,120 Speaker 1: an innovation for the as they were like get ahead 45 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:34,520 Speaker 1: and find good players for their team that other teams 46 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 1: weren't valuing. Following moneyball in two thousand and two, that 47 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:44,960 Speaker 1: whole thing caught on at the major league level, like 48 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:49,280 Speaker 1: with teams actually like taking on individuals that like were 49 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 1: primarily skilled as like database developers or like analytical thinkers, 50 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 1: just people who could ask those questions and then find 51 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:03,800 Speaker 1: the answers to help support like front office decision making, 52 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 1: like your contract signings, like your roster construction, stuff like that. 53 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 1: It isn't clear exactly like what the ultimate influence of 54 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 1: like sabermetrics is in baseball, but it is like certainly 55 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 1: the case that like that there isn't some metric that 56 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 1: can really go in and measure like performance and the 57 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:28,680 Speaker 1: relative worth of a player and like measure that from 58 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:31,719 Speaker 1: like the pitch off the bat and to hot dog 59 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:35,760 Speaker 1: sales as like. I mean that to say that it's 60 00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:40,719 Speaker 1: tough for any like mathematical answer to such like a 61 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 1: big question such as, like what should the team do 62 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 1: to be generating more revenue and bringing more fans to 63 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:52,720 Speaker 1: the stadium, Like I think we can say the Oakland 64 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:57,160 Speaker 1: ace haven't despite the fact that in two thousand and two, 65 00:04:57,200 --> 00:05:01,400 Speaker 1: the Oakland A's were ahead of their competition, and it 66 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 1: does feel like they've like skated on that competitive advantage. 67 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:08,240 Speaker 1: Looking at the history of the A's, they haven't been 68 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 1: to a World Series since nineteen ninety totally regardless of 69 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:16,839 Speaker 1: like Billy Bean's Moneyball, totally regardless of who's owned the 70 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:20,360 Speaker 1: A's in two thousand and five, well, since two thousand 71 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 1: and five, the owner of the Oakland A's has been 72 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:31,039 Speaker 1: John Fisher, whose parents owned Gap Apparel, and he has 73 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:34,800 Speaker 1: like not had much of an influence on the team 74 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:37,279 Speaker 1: going back, being that he took over in two thousand 75 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:40,200 Speaker 1: and five, and he certainly wasn't a presence in the 76 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:45,360 Speaker 1: Moneyball years, where the overall narrative was that the A's 77 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 1: couldn't pay to keep their best players. He in some 78 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 1: way has just like inherited that franchise and that like 79 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 1: organizational philosophy, perhaps because it really wasn't until recently that 80 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:03,479 Speaker 1: the A's act actually had the lowest payroll in the 81 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:08,880 Speaker 1: American League, twenty eighteen being the most recent year I 82 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:11,800 Speaker 1: could find, being that the data I found went back 83 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 1: to nineteen ninety on Baseball Cube, and that like has 84 00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:19,840 Speaker 1: come with a bit of a crash in attendance now 85 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:24,040 Speaker 1: the lowest numbers in the American League. From the outside, 86 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:27,000 Speaker 1: it does seem like the Oakland Athletics have had like 87 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 1: a bit of a like competency in the organization to 88 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:32,800 Speaker 1: be like ahead of the curve and to get good players. 89 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 1: They've like routinely fielded like good baseball talent and they've 90 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:42,359 Speaker 1: routinely won games since two thousand two. They've made the 91 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:49,680 Speaker 1: postseason three straight years twice, most recently twenty twenty. But 92 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 1: even in that lowest payroll in baseball twenty eighteen year, 93 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:59,120 Speaker 1: the A's made the postseason, acting somewhat out of rhythm 94 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:03,159 Speaker 1: with the rest of these like front offices a BOCAL, 95 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:07,039 Speaker 1: which have gotten into tanking to cut costs and secure 96 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:10,120 Speaker 1: like draft talent to then contend like the Astros of that, 97 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:15,120 Speaker 1: the Cubs the Nationals all got their titles with tanking first, 98 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 1: or if you look at the Tampa Bay Rays, another 99 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:22,640 Speaker 1: like low budget organization, that really has shown no inclination 100 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:28,280 Speaker 1: to spend on payroll ever, became contenders in part because 101 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 1: their like early adaptation of spin rates as a key 102 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:37,560 Speaker 1: difference maker in pitching. It's definitely all really dry to 103 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:42,440 Speaker 1: talk about. I get certainly like interesting and like fascinating 104 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 1: that there are these things that are overlooked and then appreciated. 105 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaker 1: But it does seem like the fans haven't seen ownership 106 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:58,960 Speaker 1: in Oakland make that belief in their like players clear. 107 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 1: It's just like ownership didn't meet the team on the 108 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 1: field with their belief in their ability to succeed and 109 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 1: with their power to do something to change the outcomes 110 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:13,840 Speaker 1: on the field. Looking at like twenty eighteen and twenty nineteen, 111 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:16,600 Speaker 1: which were years in which the Oakland A's made it 112 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 1: to the Wildcard game and lost and just had single 113 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:25,680 Speaker 1: game postseason stunts, those are like high tension and like 114 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:32,439 Speaker 1: devastating losses that certainly leave like room for just slightly 115 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 1: more invested into the team, just like another, it doesn't 116 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:40,480 Speaker 1: even really matter what, Just like another, anything seems like 117 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:42,840 Speaker 1: it could take the team over the edge, and the 118 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:48,679 Speaker 1: Oakland A's have been certainly biased against doing that. I've 119 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 1: definitely heard a lot of talk about the Oakland A's 120 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:55,160 Speaker 1: looking to move out of the Coliseum as it were 121 00:08:55,880 --> 00:09:00,640 Speaker 1: too Vegas, or to a different seemingly like fully developed 122 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:07,000 Speaker 1: district of Oakland that would be like luxury apartments around 123 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 1: a stadium development, reclaiming some like industrial land, or literally 124 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:18,839 Speaker 1: leaving and going to Las Vegas. An article in the 125 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:23,800 Speaker 1: Las Vegas Review Journal titled Las Vegas Strip gets Closer 126 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 1: to its Major League Dreams talked about how Major League 127 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 1: Baseball was even willing to forego collecting relocation piece which 128 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:35,600 Speaker 1: are often in like the hundreds of millions of dollars 129 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 1: from the A's in their potential move to Las Vegas. 130 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:44,000 Speaker 1: So like the analysis and the article is that it 131 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:46,760 Speaker 1: seems like an indication that Major League Baseball wants the 132 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:50,160 Speaker 1: move to happen. But the other end of that is 133 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:55,199 Speaker 1: totally like scapegoating the fan as as why the team 134 00:09:55,800 --> 00:10:00,640 Speaker 1: can't succeed in their status quo. But the whole conceeat 135 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:03,679 Speaker 1: of Moneyball, that whole status quo that they've been in 136 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:07,880 Speaker 1: for the last twenty years as an organization, is that 137 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:10,840 Speaker 1: the team cannot spend and that the team is not 138 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:15,160 Speaker 1: worth the investment of the owner, which just begs the 139 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 1: question why is it worth the investment of the fan? 140 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 1: Like I said, it sounds like they are scapegoating the fan, 141 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 1: And you'd think with the Gap apparel pedigree, there'd be 142 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 1: more of an effort to just sell more clothing at 143 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:35,559 Speaker 1: the stadium or more A's merchandise, said Gaps all across America. 144 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 1: As a podcaster, I definitely feel like I'm opining for 145 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 1: like a maximalist effort here, and certainly I'm also encouraging 146 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:53,359 Speaker 1: more innovative processes that are difficult to develop and actualize 147 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:57,120 Speaker 1: and make sure are worthwhile. And I only do really 148 00:10:57,160 --> 00:11:00,839 Speaker 1: know about the A's a bit, maybe from my arm 149 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:03,559 Speaker 1: chair where I can look at fangrafts in Baseball Savant, 150 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:06,320 Speaker 1: it seems as those sabermetrics is something of like a 151 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 1: salt field for at least those interested in the sport 152 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:13,960 Speaker 1: as a fan. As a fan, it also feels like 153 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:19,320 Speaker 1: organizations have become less like respectful of the art of hitting, 154 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:23,319 Speaker 1: and that's led to more of the three true outcomes 155 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 1: and less offense and less interest in markets like Oakland 156 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:32,000 Speaker 1: when teams don't hold tight to the players that we 157 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:36,720 Speaker 1: all see as stars. So for big Fish, small pod 158 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 1: I've been Andrew wrdall again. The Marlins play today at 159 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:47,080 Speaker 1: three thirty seven Eastern Time. It's a weird one, so 160 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:54,320 Speaker 1: be prepared as you can. Maybe also catch the just 161 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:59,040 Speaker 1: dropped interview with Jeff Conine, also on the Fish Stripes 162 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:03,400 Speaker 1: podcast network. So I'm Andrew Verdall signing off. I'll be 163 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:09,199 Speaker 1: back with you on Friday.