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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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Speaker 2: Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election,

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Speaker 1: Good morning, Welcome to Counterpoints. Emily Broke, Liberated, liberated.

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Speaker 4: How liberated are you today?

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Speaker 1: I'm not retiring for a while ever, so not even

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Speaker 1: I'm not even gonna.

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Speaker 4: Look sonsco of one to ten.

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Speaker 5: You're very liberated, look quite liberated, full full revolution, liberate,

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Speaker 5: EL Day.

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Speaker 1: I really celebrated EL Day. For sure. You're gonna be

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Speaker 1: another L Day today. Probably it would taut And we're

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Speaker 1: going to talk about this in a moment. China justin

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Speaker 1: nownounced that it is retaliating against the American tariffs. Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump's plan was he was going to put tariffs on

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Speaker 1: the entire world and then warn them not to retaliate. Yes,

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Speaker 1: he does not. I don't know if he had a

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Speaker 1: plan B. I hope he does. Because Plan A did

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Speaker 1: not work. The world is retaliating, and we'll talk. We'll

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Speaker 1: talk a little bit about that. There's full blown warfare

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Speaker 1: inside the Trump administration. Although it's funny because it's like,

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Speaker 1: do David Sachs and Elon Musk like, do they count

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Speaker 1: as the administration? You know, in the old days, you

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Speaker 1: knew who the senior government officials were, and if they

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Speaker 1: were out on cable attacking each other, then you had,

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Speaker 1: you know, staffer on staffer violence. David Sachs is the

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Speaker 1: cryptos are for the White House. Elon Musk is was

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Speaker 1: the co president and sort of running DOGE, but not

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Speaker 1: running DOGE a special government employee. But is he a

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Speaker 1: government employee or has Trump kicked him out? Or is

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Speaker 1: he actually still running things and he's going to fire

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Speaker 1: hundreds of thousands of people over the next several months.

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Speaker 1: Is not totally clear. So does that count as an

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Speaker 1: administration official criticizing another one? I don't even know. Because

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Speaker 1: the membrane between what is the administration and what is

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Speaker 1: the oligarch class is just so thin that they just

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Speaker 1: move right in and out of it. Whatever. In any event,

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Speaker 1: Musk thinks Navarro's moron. We're going to talk. We're going

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Speaker 1: to talk more about that. The Supreme Court a little

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Speaker 1: bit of a victory sort of, you know, so far

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Speaker 1: for the Trump administration's effort to keep these probationary employees

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Speaker 1: that they fired from being hired back, except for the

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Speaker 1: ones they need to hire back because they accidentally fired them.

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Speaker 5: And these people's jobs just keep ping ponging through the court.

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Speaker 1: Really absurd, not efficient.

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Speaker 5: And so then Ryan, you've well on Capitol Hill right now,

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Speaker 5: Republicans are actually raging against Donald Trump's budget, his big, one,

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Speaker 5: big beautiful bill. He met with some of them last

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Speaker 5: night and they are still not super pleased.

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Speaker 1: But lose three.

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Speaker 5: He can only lose three. And Freedom Caucus at least

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Speaker 5: as it yesterday, was saying he might lose up towards

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Speaker 5: a dozen.

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Speaker 1: They always say that, but we'll get into it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, we'll get into that. And then Ryan, you have a.

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Speaker 1: Guest for us, Yes, Congress and the Luzio from Pittsburgh

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Speaker 1: Rust Belt Democrat. He has really been making a lot

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Speaker 1: of Democrats angry by not just completely towing the party

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Speaker 1: line that Trump bad, therefore tariff's bad, and Trump's tariff

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Speaker 1: plan obviously dumb, therefore all tariffs are dumb. He's trying

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Speaker 1: to find a middle ground where he's saying no, like, actually,

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Speaker 1: we do need some industrial policy, and it's got a

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Speaker 1: lot of people mad at him. So this is a

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Speaker 1: refuge for those kinds of people.

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Speaker 5: Well said, we will talk to him all about that.

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Speaker 5: Drop site scoop as of this morning.

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Speaker 1: Also, yes, so Hamas filed with a lawyer in the

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Speaker 1: UK a one hundred plus page brief to demand that

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Speaker 1: the UK delist it from its terror designation. And so

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Speaker 1: we're going to go through the We're going to go

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Speaker 1: through some of the pleading, because it's an absolutely fascinating

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Speaker 1: document no matter where you stand on the question, because

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Speaker 1: they talk about they talk about anti Semitism, they talk

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Speaker 1: about the role of Zionism and Israel, they talk about

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Speaker 1: what their position is when it comes to a future

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Speaker 1: settlement in the region, and they make a straightforward argument

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Speaker 1: that we do not belong on this terror list. And

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Speaker 1: here's why.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, that'll be pretty interesting to go through.

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Speaker 1: It's an interesting, interesting indication of the way that Hamas

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Speaker 1: is increasingly relating to Western institutions in a way that

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Speaker 1: where it used to be more standoffish and consider all

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Speaker 1: of them to be considered all of them to be

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Speaker 1: just enemies.

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Speaker 5: N you had a really interesting conversation with Naomi Klin,

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Speaker 5: and I'm excited for everyone to see and we'll talk

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Speaker 5: about it a little bit as well. But Ryan sat

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Speaker 5: downe with Naomi Klein yesterday actually to get I mean,

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Speaker 5: it's interesting because I think her work was really formative

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Speaker 5: for you back in late nineties early sure, for many,

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Speaker 5: many many people.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Naomi Klin was the man back then, and you know,

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Speaker 1: nineties we still had a bit of a monoculture and

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Speaker 1: so and she was, I mean, she still is a

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Speaker 1: very big name, obviously in left spaces and in journalism

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Speaker 1: in general, but in the nineties she was almost hegemonic

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Speaker 1: when it came to representing the anti globalization side of

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Speaker 1: the debate over you know, the post post Soviet Union

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Speaker 1: world order, which and so it was your idea and

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Speaker 1: I thought it was a really good one to get

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Speaker 1: her take on this wild arc from you know, Seattle

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Speaker 1: to Trump and because you've got some people on the

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Speaker 1: right being like, ha, you guys got what you wanted.

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Speaker 6: Now.

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Speaker 1: Look And there was this line that said, you know,

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Speaker 1: one of the chants in Seattle was another world as possible,

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Speaker 1: like well, hey, here's another world. But look, we didn't

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Speaker 1: mean all other worlds are better, Like we always acknowledged

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Speaker 1: things could get worse, and it does appear that that

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Speaker 1: was always going to be the better bet. Things getting

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Speaker 1: worse is always the most likely outcome.

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Speaker 5: I had a chance to watch.

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Speaker 1: It's on her own that that's what's happening.

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Speaker 5: People should Yeah, I had a chance to watch the

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Speaker 5: interview and it's really really interesting through that lens, so

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Speaker 5: exciting segments. Stay tuned for that.

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Speaker 1: Let's jump into our gondo this morning. She lives in

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Speaker 1: Canon on the West coast, so right, that's like six

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Speaker 1: am for her.

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Speaker 5: That would be absurd, that would be unkind but globalization

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Speaker 5: zoom prerecorded.

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Speaker 4: Let's jump into the A block.

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Speaker 5: China is now retaliating retaliatory tariffs is a day zero.

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Speaker 5: We can put it up on the screen. This was

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Speaker 5: announced last night early this morning. It's been developing. They've

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Speaker 5: slapped hertalitary tariffs of eighty four percent on US goods

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Speaker 5: in response to Trump takeaways just from the CNBC breakdown here,

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Speaker 5: they said, this has arise from eighty four percent to

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Speaker 5: thirty four percent.

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Speaker 4: It is starting on April.

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Speaker 5: Tenth, and we export about one hundred and forty four

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Speaker 5: billion dollars worth of goods to China. That's as of

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Speaker 5: twenty twenty four, so obviously this is very significant. This

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Speaker 5: is a statement from Treasury Secretary Scott Bestent on Wednesday

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Speaker 5: after this announcement. He said, I think it's unfortunate that

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Speaker 5: the Chinese actually don't want to come and negotiate because

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Speaker 5: they are the worst defenders in the international trading system.

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Speaker 5: They have the most imbalanced economy in the history of

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Speaker 5: the modern world, and I can tell.

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Speaker 4: You this escalation is a loser for them.

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Speaker 5: Ryan, you made an interesting point as we're opening up

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Speaker 5: here that this is what Trump said everyone can't do.

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Speaker 4: This is America has the upper hand.

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Speaker 5: And you see a little bit of that in Bestent

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Speaker 5: statement that the United States has the upper hand, and

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Speaker 5: so if you want to retaliate, you're going to get

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Speaker 5: something so much worse that it's probably worth you coming

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Speaker 5: to the table. I think I think that's probably an

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Speaker 5: argument he's going to find to be a winner with

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Speaker 5: the EU, with Australia, with Japan. I don't know that

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Speaker 5: he probably had high hopes for China, but it probably

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Speaker 5: had some hopes for China.

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Speaker 1: I guess I don't know IM. I've kind of given

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Speaker 1: up trying to get into this guy's head. At this point,

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Speaker 1: China has spent the last twenty years building up its

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Speaker 1: manufacturing capacity. It's it's capital markets as well, it's it's

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Speaker 1: supply chains and its ability to operate distinct from the

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Speaker 1: United States. Like, we can't we can't live without them.

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Speaker 1: They currently they can live without us. We start a

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Speaker 1: war trade war with them. At that point, he's like,

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Speaker 1: all right, what do we like? So what's the point

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Speaker 1: of even analyzing any of this? Like they're just gonna

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Speaker 1: whoop us, and like they need they have all the

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Speaker 1: things that we need for our manufacturing capacity. There's an

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Speaker 1: article in one of these clean tech trade publications that

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Speaker 1: talked about how just a few days ago they added

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Speaker 1: export license requirements to a bunch of things. I've never

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Speaker 1: even heard of, dysprosium, turbium, tungsten, that one, I've heard of, indium, yttrium,

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Speaker 1: a bunch of others. These are the rare earth minerals

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Speaker 1: that they produce that they export to US for us

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Speaker 1: to use to complete the assembly of automobiles, electric vehicles,

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Speaker 1: solar panels, all the things of the modern economy. Like

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Speaker 1: they have the productive capacity to produce it.

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Speaker 5: Hippies like you prevent us from mining here.

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Speaker 1: Mine at all you want, go for it an well,

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Speaker 1: we don't have it yet from Ukraine.

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Speaker 4: It's an important distinction with Ukraine.

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Speaker 1: Lie, they don't even have a bunch of that stuff.

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Speaker 5: The distinction with trying to think those importantly, the reason

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Speaker 5: that they just go comple it puddled to the metal

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Speaker 5: on a lot of this stuff, including labor corosts. I mean,

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Speaker 5: it's one of the most important contrasts is that it's

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Speaker 5: been the way that they have built up their industrial

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Speaker 5: capacity is you know, the way we built up our

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Speaker 5: industrial capacity wasn't all sunsets and roses, was not great.

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Speaker 5: What they've done is also really, really really not great

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Speaker 5: and is still happening under our noses to some extent

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Speaker 5: right now.

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Speaker 1: They've done it like they are they're ready for this,

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Speaker 1: and we're not. They're smart, We're not. They have the

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Speaker 1: world with them, we've lost the entire world smart smartest,

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Speaker 1: like the smartest in like they have a meritocracy, like

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Speaker 1: the people who are the most talented at economic policy

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Speaker 1: rise up in the ranks. In China, we have Peter Navarro,

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Speaker 1: Elon musk and and Wharton graduate Donald Trump. Yes, we're

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Speaker 1: not sending our best into this battle.

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Speaker 5: King of Wharton's finest. Donald Trump last night was at

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Speaker 5: the National Republican Congressional Committee's at dinner here in Washington, DC,

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Speaker 5: and he talked about some of this. Again, this is

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Speaker 5: just from the last like twelve hours. So let's take

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Speaker 5: a listen to President Trump.

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Speaker 7: If we follow through this agenda, we will be rewarded

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Speaker 7: with a phenomenal economy and a massive victory at the

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Speaker 7: ballot box in twenty six because we will have a

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Speaker 7: record of triumph like no president has ever had, like

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Speaker 7: no Congress has ever had. They will not be able

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Speaker 7: to even touch your seat. Your seat is secure, and

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Speaker 7: we'll pick up forty fifty or even sixty seats, and

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Speaker 7: we'll have something that's going to be smooth sailing for

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Speaker 7: years to come. If we don't get it done because

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Speaker 7: of stupidity or a couple of people that want.

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Speaker 1: To show how great they are.

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Speaker 7: You just have to laugh at him, or smile at him,

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Speaker 7: or cry right in their face. But it is the

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Speaker 7: largest transaction in the history of our country. And don't

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Speaker 7: let some of these policies to go around and say,

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Speaker 7: you know, because I'm telling you, these countries are calling

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Speaker 7: us up, kissing my ass. They are dying to make

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Speaker 7: it you please, please make it to you. I'll do anything.

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Speaker 7: I'll do anything, sir and criticized because the globalists will

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Speaker 7: go after you. For seven decades, American ships have patrolled

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Speaker 7: the seas, American troops have kept the pace and peace,

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Speaker 7: and American wealth has enriched the globe. But despite all

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Speaker 7: we have given to them, you will not find an

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Speaker 7: American car in Berlin, in Tokyo, in Seoul and Shanghai.

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Speaker 5: Not a car.

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Speaker 7: Beautiful guys, I didn't want to have any arm wrestling

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Speaker 7: contests with any of them. I can tell you that

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Speaker 7: they're good, strong guys. That's what they want to do.

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Speaker 7: They love to dig hole, that's what they want to do.

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Speaker 5: They don't want to do.

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Speaker 7: Gidgets and widgets and wadgets. They don't want to build

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Speaker 7: cell phones with their hands. Their big strong hands doing

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Speaker 7: a little thing. Remember when Hillary Clinton went to West

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Speaker 7: Virginia and she had decimated them three weeks before in

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Speaker 7: like sub state where they make little tiny circuit boards.

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Speaker 5: The gidgets and wadgets and they're big strong hands.

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Speaker 1: Guy's mentally ill.

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Speaker 4: Even for Trump.

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Speaker 5: That was a hell of a riff.

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Speaker 7: Guy.

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Speaker 1: The guy's just.

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Speaker 5: He's talking about the big strong hands, like hours before

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Speaker 5: the tariffs actually went into effect. And obviously that's the

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Speaker 5: reality that we've woken up to this morning. We're filming

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Speaker 5: this before markets have opened.

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Speaker 1: It makes me think of all of these when you

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Speaker 1: read through history and you there are periods of time

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Speaker 1: where people had a mad king and you're like, god,

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Speaker 1: that must have sucked, like literally a mad king, not

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Speaker 1: like a king where like he's like ridless. You disagree

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Speaker 1: with him on this issue, but this is this is

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Speaker 1: the king's prerogative at this moment, like an absolute mad

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Speaker 1: king where he's just nuts. I think this guy's lost it.

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Speaker 1: This guy's nuts. You say he's gonna win, He's gonna

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Speaker 1: win fifty seats, are you like, are you insane? Yes,

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Speaker 1: like you're you are on the cusp of a financial

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Speaker 1: crisis that you have sparked for no reason. You're going

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Speaker 1: to go down as like the worst president in American history.

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Speaker 1: If you continue with this and he's you're not going

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Speaker 1: to touch us, we're going to win fifty seats.

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Speaker 5: Well, so that's the I mean, if you continue with

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Speaker 5: this is the I was gonna say a million dollar question,

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Speaker 5: but multi trillion dollar question.

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Speaker 1: She shows no signs of back and down.

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Speaker 5: So I want to get in all of that after

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Speaker 5: we roll through some of what else happened yesterday, because

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Speaker 5: Jameson Greer was testifying in front of the Senate, and

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Speaker 5: Andrew ross Orkin will start with us is going to

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Speaker 5: be a two made quite an interesting point on CNBC

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Speaker 5: yesterday that I think we'll probably probably learn more about

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Speaker 5: like a year or two from now.

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Speaker 4: So let's roll into ross Orkin.

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Speaker 8: Given what the government's been doing and this administration's been doing,

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Speaker 8: it would not shock me, and I hate to speculate

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Speaker 8: if we were to find out that a whole bunch

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Speaker 8: of people who work in Washington as a elected leaders

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Speaker 8: one way or the other, ultimately sold stocks last week

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Speaker 8: or potentially worse than that short of the market.

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Speaker 5: Okay, so Ryan, they don't have to disclose this, what

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Speaker 5: is it, thirty days they're supposed to disclose their trades Washington.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, what's I think something like that for the executive Yeah, right, yeah.

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Speaker 5: They're supposed to. This came out of the Stock Act

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Speaker 5: of was twenty twelve, after the revelations about Nancy Pelosi.

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Speaker 5: They passed this saying that they would disclose their trades

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Speaker 5: within and John Bayner and John Bayner within thirty days.

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Speaker 5: And so we have no idea.

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Speaker 1: And what's his name, Max bought Spencer Spencer. Baucus was

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Speaker 1: the Financial Services chairman or ranking member on the Financial

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Speaker 1: Services Committee. Came out of the meeting with Bernanke and

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Speaker 1: Hank Paulson in two thousand and seven when they told him, like, hey,

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Speaker 1: this thing is about to go down. He walked out

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Speaker 1: of the meeting and sold his stocks. And that one

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Speaker 1: in particular rattled the public to a point where they're like,

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Speaker 1: all right, you got it, Like you need to do

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Speaker 1: something about it. In Congress is like, sure, we'll let

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Speaker 1: you know what we're doing after we do it, but

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Speaker 1: we're not going to stop doing it. Yeah.

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Speaker 5: And by the way, if we don't disclose it, it's

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Speaker 5: not that big of a deal. It's fine. Get over it, right, Okay,

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Speaker 5: So that's just something to keep in mind. Obviously, people

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Speaker 5: could be short in the market, they could be doing

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Speaker 5: all kinds of things. A lot of times, the way

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Speaker 5: that members do this is they say that their wife

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Speaker 5: was trading or their husband was trading, or you know,

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Speaker 5: they have a really flimsy excuse and say, my broker

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Speaker 5: does all of this. It's not a blind trust.

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Speaker 1: I don't have no members of Congress of the issue here.

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Speaker 1: It's more the White House.

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Speaker 5: And people in the White House potentially. Right, let's put

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Speaker 5: a three up on the screen. This is from David Sachs.

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Speaker 5: I think we have this here. Black Monday hoax is over.

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Speaker 5: This is a post from cryptos are As David Sachs.

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Speaker 5: And then there was a community note, and I say,

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Speaker 5: what was because if you go to this tweet there

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Speaker 5: is no longer The note readers added contexts they thought

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Speaker 5: people might want to know, as a three forty five

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Speaker 5: easter in the same day this was this tweet was written.

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Speaker 5: The SMPA is down two point six percent for the day,

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Speaker 5: racing overnight gains and down.

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Speaker 4: About six percent.

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Speaker 1: So he posted this in the morning six percent.

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Speaker 5: From when the tweet was written, yeah, and so now

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Speaker 5: if you go to this post, actually, he added.

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Speaker 4: He added an additional tweet to the threat.

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Speaker 5: He said, after wrongly predicting a crash yesterday, some people

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Speaker 5: are gloating. This is around six pm yesterday because the

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Speaker 5: Dow Jones Industrial Average closed down point eight four percent

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Speaker 5: today on the real black Monday, the DJIA plunged by

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Speaker 5: twenty two point six. People use these terms without having

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Speaker 5: a clue what they mean.

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Speaker 1: He is right about that, and what he's talking about

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Speaker 1: is that throughout the day there was there was a

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Speaker 1: bounce like that, and the markets were actually up for

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Speaker 1: a while, and there was some hope that maybe the

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Speaker 1: countries wouldn't retaliate very quickly and that Trump might revisit this.

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Speaker 1: And it was the same false hope that led them

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Speaker 1: to kind of, you know, run up the market in

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Speaker 1: January and February, and then when it became clear that no, no,

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Speaker 1: this guy's dug in on this thing and China is

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Speaker 1: going to retaliate, then the market crashed again.

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Speaker 5: So we still don't know how it's going to open today,

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Speaker 5: of course, But Jameson Greer was testifying before the Senate

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Speaker 5: yesterday and got some really some genuinely very tough questions

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Speaker 5: from Democrats, no surprise there, but Ryan some interesting question

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Speaker 5: from Democrats that we wanted to roll through as well.

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Speaker 5: So let's go This is questions from Mark Warner, a

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Speaker 5: question from Tom tillis obviously at establishment Republican, and then

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Speaker 5: we'll have other clips to get through with jameson Greer

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Speaker 5: as well. He is the US Trade Representative, so he's

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Speaker 5: basically the guy in the office who's tasked with managing

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Speaker 5: the US's trade relationships across the world. So hell of

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Speaker 5: a time to be Jamison Greer. He is very much

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Speaker 5: of this kind of new right world, very much on

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Speaker 5: board with this agenda, is not being forced to be

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Speaker 5: in this situation. He's a kind of true believer in

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Speaker 5: restructuring these global trade relationships.

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Speaker 4: So let's go ahead and roll a four here.

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Speaker 9: We already have a free trade agreement, we have a

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Speaker 9: trade surplus, so getting the least bad Why did they

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Speaker 9: get whacked in the first place.

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Speaker 10: We're addressing the one point two trillion dollar deaths in

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Speaker 10: the largest in human history that President Biden left us with.

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Speaker 10: We should be running up the score in Australia.

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Speaker 9: And the question on Australia they banner have a trade

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Speaker 9: surplus with Australia, we have a free trade agreement. Why

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Speaker 9: they are incredibly important national security partner? Why were they

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Speaker 9: whacked with a tariff?

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Speaker 10: Senator, despite the agreement. They ban our beef, they ban

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Speaker 10: our pork. They're getting ready to impose measures with your company, with.

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Speaker 9: Your Greek letter formula. The fact that we have a

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Speaker 9: trade surplus, we.

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Speaker 10: Have a global tariff on everywhere we're trying to address

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Speaker 10: the one point two trillion dollars.

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Speaker 1: I think that Biden left us with.

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Speaker 9: I think that answer, Sir, You're a much smarter person

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Speaker 9: than that answer.

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Speaker 1: I'm assuming this all got gamed out, because because it's

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Speaker 1: a novel approach, it need to be thought out.

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Speaker 5: Whose throat do I get to choke if this proves

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Speaker 5: to be wrong?

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Speaker 10: Well, Senator, you can certainly always talk to me, but

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Speaker 10: I won Are you at the tip of the spear? Well,

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Speaker 10: I'm at the tip of the spear.

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Speaker 5: It's an interesting insight into how Republicans are thinking about

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Speaker 5: all of this, which is, who do I get to

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Speaker 5: blame if it all blows up in our face? And

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Speaker 5: that if is a huge.

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Speaker 1: And Mark Warner is asking a reasonable question, but he's

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Speaker 1: asking it into a completely unreasonable environment. Like he and

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Speaker 1: I don't normally defend Mark Warner, but he's an insane

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Speaker 1: person in an insane asylum. He's like and so I

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Speaker 1: get why he's yelling. He's like, guys, you said that

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Speaker 1: if we have a trade deficit with the country, then

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Speaker 1: if so facto they have trade barriers against us, and

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Speaker 1: then we're going to screw them Australia. We have a

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Speaker 1: trade surplus with them, So what is your problem? And

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Speaker 1: it's just talking points.

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Speaker 5: Well, I think that's interesting because the yeah, soccer, if

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Speaker 5: soccer were here, he would be going through the roof

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Speaker 5: because the beef is beef. One of the things beef.

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Speaker 5: It's insane. We are pushing the beef x sports are

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Speaker 5: like hormone Leyden beef exports on other countries and expecting

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Speaker 5: them to just take it. But I think there's so

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Speaker 5: we have another clip here. Actually that will be helpful too.

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Speaker 5: This is a finance committee, so same committee that you've

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Speaker 5: been here.

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Speaker 1: We ship a cow all the way to Australia. By

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Speaker 1: the way, what kind of global system is that? Nobody

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Speaker 1: around here? And he's the eat beef.

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Speaker 5: Our food system is so insane. I mean, we don't

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Speaker 5: have to open up that Pandora's box, but.

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Speaker 1: Cow is I don't know really heavy?

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Speaker 5: How much could a banana cost? Michael ten dollars? Here

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Speaker 5: is Senator Bennett talking to Jamison Greer. We can roll

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Speaker 5: this next club.

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Speaker 11: I understand your position is that the long term gain

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Speaker 11: is worth the short term pain. But what is that

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Speaker 11: short term pain that'll look like?

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Speaker 10: So, Senator, I think we can look at I think

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Speaker 10: we should look at history and data for this. You know,

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Speaker 10: it's hard to project what's going to happen with prices,

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Speaker 10: but we know in the first term, first Trump term,

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Speaker 10: the President imposed historic tariffs on China on an enormous

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Speaker 10: amount of goods coming from China, and during that time,

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Speaker 10: inflation went down.

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Speaker 11: And I know you're smart enough to know that the

439
00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:21,040
Speaker 11: likelihood is that prices are going to go up for

440
00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:24,000
Speaker 11: the American people as a result of the tariffs that

441
00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:24,800
Speaker 11: you put in place.

442
00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:25,800
Speaker 1: Do you disagree with that?

443
00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:30,080
Speaker 11: I mean, when you say that the American in your testimony,

444
00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:33,679
Speaker 11: that you expect the American people will bear the burden

445
00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:37,040
Speaker 11: or that, and I'm sure they will bear any burden

446
00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:40,679
Speaker 11: on some level, But what do you think that what

447
00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:43,000
Speaker 11: do you think that burden is actually going to look like.

448
00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:45,439
Speaker 10: Well, I think the challenges, frankly, are going to be

449
00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:51,000
Speaker 10: more for companies that are largely dependent on imports from

450
00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:53,239
Speaker 10: from China and Asia, where they have to adjust their

451
00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:54,960
Speaker 10: supply chains in a quick set of time.

452
00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:56,919
Speaker 4: Right, and you're laughing, I'm just going to toss right

453
00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:57,080
Speaker 4: to you.

454
00:22:57,240 --> 00:22:59,719
Speaker 1: Well, that's great news. So these tariffs are only going

455
00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:01,679
Speaker 1: to be a problem for companies that have, you know,

456
00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:04,840
Speaker 1: global entanglements in their supply chains. That's good. I'm glad

457
00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:07,520
Speaker 1: to hear that. Let me let me check which company. Oh,

458
00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:11,320
Speaker 1: that's all of the companies, that's every company. Okay, Well,

459
00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:13,919
Speaker 1: guess we're back back to square one with that on

460
00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:16,160
Speaker 1: your point. By the way, on the on Dow futures

461
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:20,560
Speaker 1: based on this China news that we opened with DW

462
00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:24,480
Speaker 1: Nasdaq SMP all down about two percent. But here's the

463
00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:27,920
Speaker 1: good news. As your wealth shrinks every day as a

464
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:30,480
Speaker 1: as a country and as a person, when you lose

465
00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:33,640
Speaker 1: two percent every day, you're actually losing just a little

466
00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:38,639
Speaker 1: bit less in absolute numbers. Okay, So there is really

467
00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:40,600
Speaker 1: in light at the end of the tunnel. Well, let's

468
00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:41,760
Speaker 1: put this and it's a big zero.

469
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:44,520
Speaker 5: Well, so as how long this goes on, let's put

470
00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:46,640
Speaker 5: this Kaitlin huey Burns post this is the next album.

471
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:49,439
Speaker 1: Yeah. If you have nothing and the Dow crashes two percent,

472
00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:50,520
Speaker 1: you didn't lose a thing.

473
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:52,040
Speaker 5: You will own nothing and you will be happy.

474
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:52,760
Speaker 6: Wow.

475
00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:53,680
Speaker 1: Genius.

476
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:56,600
Speaker 5: Kaitlyn huy Burns says. She asked s gott Best on

477
00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:59,600
Speaker 5: the Hill yesterday whether the tariff's going into effect tomorrow,

478
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:01,119
Speaker 5: so they are in effect right now? Are set in

479
00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:05,120
Speaker 5: stone or negotiating tactic? And Bessent replied, quote, they are negotiable,

480
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:11,960
Speaker 5: but not a negotiating tactic. There's a lot to get

481
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:12,560
Speaker 5: into with that.

482
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:16,240
Speaker 1: I kind of I'm with Bessent on this one. All

483
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:19,000
Speaker 1: the let me stand up for Besson.

484
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:20,159
Speaker 5: Here, stand up for Beson.

485
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:24,480
Speaker 1: I get what he's saying there. He's saying, look, all right,

486
00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:28,080
Speaker 1: the tariff is fifteen percent, or it's eighty five percent

487
00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:33,199
Speaker 1: on Lesotho, maybe it could be seventy five. Like the

488
00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:38,000
Speaker 1: number is negotiable, yes, but the idea that we are

489
00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:40,639
Speaker 1: putting forward, that we are going to break the back

490
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:44,080
Speaker 1: of the global trading system and create something new in

491
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:48,000
Speaker 1: its place, that's not negotiable. That's what he's saying, yeah,

492
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:51,320
Speaker 1: we don't believe him, because like Trump in that speech

493
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:53,480
Speaker 1: was like, they're all begging me for a deal, and

494
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:55,720
Speaker 1: you know, he's going to make some deals and he's

495
00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:58,760
Speaker 1: I think he's eventually going to have to either back

496
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:01,440
Speaker 1: off this reforced off of it, because you can't break

497
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:07,159
Speaker 1: the global system as one person. Yeah, without or we

498
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:08,160
Speaker 1: just have no system left.

499
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:10,280
Speaker 5: I mean, you can break the global system.

500
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,320
Speaker 1: But he's breaking it. What I mean is at some

501
00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:14,600
Speaker 1: point Republicans have to step in. I mean they would

502
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:17,320
Speaker 1: need sixty seven votes to override his veto. Yeah, but

503
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:22,000
Speaker 1: you keep shaving two three percent off every single day,

504
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:26,520
Speaker 1: So there's gonna that that's gonna that pressure is gonna build.

505
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 1: So here's where people spent too long building up. People

506
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:33,760
Speaker 1: spent their entire lives building up what they have. And

507
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:35,680
Speaker 1: I don't think they're going to let this mentally ill

508
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 1: guy just take it away. Maybe they will though.

509
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 5: Well so Politico, I think this was in playbook the

510
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:44,800
Speaker 5: other day. I was talking about how Republican. The incentive

511
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:48,720
Speaker 5: for Republicans, this is the implication I'm paraphrasing it right now,

512
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:53,439
Speaker 5: is they know they're voters trust Donald Trump. Republican voters

513
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,000
Speaker 5: trust Donald Trump. That may chip away, that trust may

514
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,840
Speaker 5: trip away, but right now, Republican voters trust Donald Trump

515
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:03,000
Speaker 5: more than when they trust his opponents. When it comes

516
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:05,400
Speaker 5: to I mean, he's his numbers. Harry Entton has pointed

517
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:06,960
Speaker 5: this out. We'll get to it. His numbers on the

518
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:10,920
Speaker 5: economy are slipping. But Republican voters have confidence in Donald

519
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:13,000
Speaker 5: Trump to the extent that it means they trust him

520
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:15,679
Speaker 5: more than other people. And so if the choice is

521
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 5: Donald Trump or you know someone who opposes Donald Trump's approach.

522
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:22,560
Speaker 1: We'll talk about this polling more in a minute, but

523
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:24,639
Speaker 1: here's a good one for it that backs up your point.

524
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:29,080
Speaker 1: You Gov asked April second, will forever be remembered as

525
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:32,200
Speaker 1: the day American history was reborn, the day America's destiny

526
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:34,400
Speaker 1: was reclaimed, in the day that we began to make

527
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:37,960
Speaker 1: America wealthy again. Do you agree or disagree with that

528
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:43,879
Speaker 1: following statement regarding tariffs. Republicans, by seventy to fourteen either

529
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 1: strongly or somewhat agree with that independence. Fifty one percent

530
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 1: of independence disagree with that. Forty one percent strongly disagree. Obviously,

531
00:26:55,080 --> 00:27:00,439
Speaker 1: Democrats are like spitting to spittake to that one and

532
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:05,399
Speaker 1: so you know, overall the country does not agree with

533
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:08,160
Speaker 1: that statement, but Republicans still do.

534
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:10,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, And so I just think this is important because,

535
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:13,600
Speaker 5: like I think Trump's tactics and this is a question

536
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 5: we'll have for the that I'll definitely have for the

537
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:20,119
Speaker 5: congressman later. I think Trump's tactics are completely like bananas.

538
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:22,680
Speaker 5: There's no disagreement on that. I think a lot of

539
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:26,880
Speaker 5: voters make the calculus that it's between these banana tactics

540
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:31,680
Speaker 5: or the status quo, which is shocking levels of debt

541
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:34,240
Speaker 5: and deficit raising under the Biden ministry. You really the chart,

542
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,600
Speaker 5: just the skyrocketing. It wasn't Jess Biden, but after COVID

543
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:42,480
Speaker 5: Trump contributed to that as well. It was just crazy levels.

544
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:45,679
Speaker 5: And people feel like that contributed to inflation. And they

545
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:47,600
Speaker 5: look at the establishment and status quo, and then they

546
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:51,560
Speaker 5: look at Donald Trump and they look at for example,

547
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:54,320
Speaker 5: China's you know, they look at China, they look at

548
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:56,200
Speaker 5: different places in the world, and they say, this is unfair.

549
00:27:56,440 --> 00:28:01,760
Speaker 5: Trump taps into that, and the response it's it's not

550
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:04,720
Speaker 5: persuasive the opponents of Donald Trump. For a lot of

551
00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:08,920
Speaker 5: Republican voters, it's not persuasive, and so I think also

552
00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:12,600
Speaker 5: there's a genuine question as to whether, and this speaks

553
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:13,840
Speaker 5: poorly to our politics.

554
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:15,680
Speaker 4: You have Jamison Greer, who I.

555
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:19,520
Speaker 5: Think was pretty it was a pretty capable defender of

556
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:24,400
Speaker 5: a weird process, a bad process that is a policy

557
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:27,959
Speaker 5: in and of itself. But when did you see how

558
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:30,880
Speaker 5: the tweet, the Walter Bloomberg tweet shift of the market

559
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:33,640
Speaker 5: day before yesterday? It was the craziest thing in the world,

560
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:39,320
Speaker 5: predictable but insane, and I think part of what may

561
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:41,920
Speaker 5: happen here. I'm not saying it will happen, but I'm

562
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 5: saying there is still a possibility that we see a shift.

563
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 5: Trump pulls back, probably a month from now. I shouldn't

564
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:55,160
Speaker 5: say probably, but let's just say hypothetically a month from now,

565
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,479
Speaker 5: a few weeks from now, Trump pulls back. There was

566
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:01,320
Speaker 5: a shock for a long time, and then markets go

567
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 5: back up and we see companies having maybe there are

568
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 5: significant layoffs, maybe there are jobs brought back in. That's

569
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 5: what we see right now is this push and pull,

570
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:16,560
Speaker 5: Big Stalantis temporary layoffs, and then the Honda Civic manufacturing

571
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 5: coming back to Indiana, for example. And I just I

572
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 5: don't want to discount the possibility that this is better

573
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 5: in the long run than the status quo. I'm not

574
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:28,640
Speaker 5: saying it's the possibility. I'm not saying it's the thing

575
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:32,040
Speaker 5: that's actually going to happen. But I still think that

576
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:36,240
Speaker 5: there's what we have no idea where Trump stops, and

577
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 5: I don't think he has any idea where he stops,

578
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 5: so that, I mean, I think a lot of voters

579
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:42,960
Speaker 5: are probably making that calculus too. I think that's what

580
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:46,960
Speaker 5: allows him politically to keep stringing Republicans along with it.

581
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 4: But that's not going to last forever.

582
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:50,720
Speaker 5: I mean, I think you can get away with that

583
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:53,720
Speaker 5: for another two to three weeks maximum maximum.

584
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:58,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, the problem with Trump's approach here, besides the approach,

585
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:03,480
Speaker 1: is the sudden nature of it and the way that

586
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:07,240
Speaker 1: it has struck fear in everybody. So even if he

587
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:09,480
Speaker 1: was completely right about the fact that you need to

588
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 1: put these blanket tariffs on everybody, including Canada and Australia like,

589
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 1: which he's not. But let's say he was doing it

590
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:19,200
Speaker 1: the way he did it without getting buy in from

591
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:22,480
Speaker 1: Wall Street, from union, well, he got some buy in

592
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:25,600
Speaker 1: from some unions, from some members of the Democratic Party.

593
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:32,400
Speaker 1: Has meant that there's this fear among the public that

594
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:37,840
Speaker 1: we're going to have a recession, and these are self

595
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 1: fulfilling situations in an economy like ours that is based

596
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:46,680
Speaker 1: so heavily on consumer spending and business investments. So if

597
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:50,680
Speaker 1: you are a business now, you're not hiring, you're probably

598
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:52,800
Speaker 1: laying off and trying to build up your cash reserves

599
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 1: to the extent that you can. If you're a custom

600
00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:58,040
Speaker 1: if you're a consumer, you're out. You might actually be

601
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 1: out there trying to buy that washer that you've needed

602
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 1: before it doubles in price, but in general, you're not

603
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:08,720
Speaker 1: spending money. And in fact, this poll said that one

604
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:11,720
Speaker 1: fifth of one out of five people were considering a

605
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 1: quick purchase because of the looming tariffs and so like

606
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:19,880
Speaker 1: that could give a little sugar high, and it said

607
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:23,680
Speaker 1: another one in five we're stopping purchases because of them.

608
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 1: But the overall all the coime means people aren't going

609
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:30,160
Speaker 1: to spend it. So then now all these businesses that

610
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 1: rely on anything going on overseas are going to start

611
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:37,360
Speaker 1: getting hit with duties and in order to pay, like,

612
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:42,360
Speaker 1: in order to pay this tariff, you need cash. You

613
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:45,680
Speaker 1: haven't sold your product yet. This whole thing we've got

614
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:51,040
Speaker 1: here relies on cash flow and credit. You can't really

615
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:52,560
Speaker 1: throw in it. Oh like, oh, by the way, you

616
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:55,240
Speaker 1: own extra twenty percent right now, and it's still well, whoa,

617
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 1: I don't have that. I only have exactly what I

618
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 1: need to make it. Everyone's just you know, gasping for.

619
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 5: Air in the China tariffs. So we started talking about

620
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:07,480
Speaker 5: our fifty percent increase, like thirty four to eighty four

621
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:10,280
Speaker 5: percent increase, And I'll skip ahead to a ten here

622
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:11,959
Speaker 5: and put this element up on the screen. The Law

623
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:14,200
Speaker 5: Street Journal reported on a survey the Chamber of Commerce

624
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:17,480
Speaker 5: did which was very very interesting and said most businesses

625
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 5: were still or many businesses were still planning to keep

626
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:25,760
Speaker 5: their financial entanglements with China. Interestingly, this survey also saw

627
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:29,880
Speaker 5: many of those companies see China as like the biggest

628
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 5: geopolitical risk. And that's the line that Donald Trump is

629
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 5: telling between saying, hey, you see China as a risk,

630
00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:41,920
Speaker 5: so bet on the United States. The problem with that

631
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:46,480
Speaker 5: is the tactic here has created uncertainty. Donald Trump sees

632
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 5: the uncertainty as his leverage to get people to bet

633
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 5: on the US. But that uncertainty is precisely why people

634
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 5: are just being risk averse and not taking risks at all.

635
00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 5: So maybe this, this retaliatory tariff changes the calculus for

636
00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:04,800
Speaker 5: some of those companies in the survey. It's obviously taken before,

637
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:08,000
Speaker 5: but I mean, it just it's it's very, very hard.

638
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:10,440
Speaker 5: The possibility that it just laid out is just that

639
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:12,720
Speaker 5: it's a possibility. I think it's a possibility that's not

640
00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:16,320
Speaker 5: being treated a series. It should be in the media.

641
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 1: Who's but who's financing that? Like who? Like the major

642
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:27,360
Speaker 1: companies are not they don't expect Trump's tariffs to be

643
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:32,479
Speaker 1: here four years from now. Yeah, so they wouldn't. They

644
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:37,640
Speaker 1: would have no reason to build a plant. The he

645
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,440
Speaker 1: hates the Chips Act, he hates industrial policy from the

646
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:40,960
Speaker 1: top down.

647
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 5: So it's a huge problem.

648
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:46,880
Speaker 1: So then like who's right, Who's Who's who's financing these

649
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:50,360
Speaker 1: these projects? You just had Microsoft that you saw this

650
00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:54,280
Speaker 1: announced that their their billion dollar three data centers in

651
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:57,480
Speaker 1: Ohio that they're they're pulling out of those. So the

652
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 1: conditions aren't just the economic conditions aren't right for it. Yeah,

653
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 1: not good timing for that, So like who just theoretically,

654
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:08,600
Speaker 1: who would who's betting who would lead this renaissance? Would

655
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:11,319
Speaker 1: Who's who's who's putting their chips in on the US here.

656
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:14,880
Speaker 5: Yeah, Greer laid out the case that he thinks plenty

657
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:17,239
Speaker 5: of the pointing of the Honda Civic. And what's the

658
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 5: other one that they've pointed to you so far. There's

659
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:20,640
Speaker 5: they have a couple of things that happened just in

660
00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:26,760
Speaker 5: the last week or so, but certainly are offset by Stilantis,

661
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:30,960
Speaker 5: by Microsoft, and by some of these other like negative

662
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:33,799
Speaker 5: effects as well. So it's pretty it's pretty hard to

663
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 5: make the case that it's, you know, on like that

664
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 5: there's some objective metric by which it's it's clearly already

665
00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:43,000
Speaker 5: a roaring win.

666
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:45,279
Speaker 1: Yeah. And if you I mean, if you know, why

667
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:48,960
Speaker 1: why would a company bet on us over China? Given

668
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:53,800
Speaker 1: their education system compared to ours, their manufacturing capacity compared

669
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:56,920
Speaker 1: to ours, their supply chain access compared to ours, their

670
00:34:56,960 --> 00:35:03,080
Speaker 1: stability and like leadership compared to We're a basket case.

671
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:09,360
Speaker 1: We have authoritarianism but instability. We're rounding people up and

672
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:12,080
Speaker 1: throwing them in gulags, but we can't even get a

673
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:19,080
Speaker 1: stable system. Is it's the point of the gulags? What

674
00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:21,680
Speaker 1: are you talking about criticized Israel?

675
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:24,319
Speaker 4: Oh, you're which gulags are you talking about.

676
00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:26,640
Speaker 1: There are a couple of salvador Ones, but also the

677
00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:29,080
Speaker 1: detention centers all around the rest of where students are

678
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 1: being rounded up for op eds and participating in protests

679
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:35,080
Speaker 1: and sent to.

680
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 5: Let's watch this clip of Harry Enton on CNN reacting

681
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 5: to this was going pretty viral on the right yesterday.

682
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:46,799
Speaker 4: I saw it when Charlie Kirk posted it.

683
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:48,279
Speaker 1: But let's a eight.

684
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:51,400
Speaker 5: This is a eight. Let's rule Harry Enton on CNN yesterday.

685
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:54,320
Speaker 12: So Trump's approach here, what are we talking about Trump's

686
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:57,840
Speaker 12: approach to presidential power? I think the American people recognize

687
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:01,359
Speaker 12: what he's doing here is completely from we're talking Get this,

688
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:04,920
Speaker 12: eighty six percent of the American public believes that Trump's

689
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 12: approach to presidential power is completely different from past presidents,

690
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:11,920
Speaker 12: compared to only fourteen percent who believe it is in

691
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:14,479
Speaker 12: line with president And we're talking about at least seventy

692
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:19,040
Speaker 12: nine percent of Democrats, Independents, and Republicans. So again, you

693
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:22,520
Speaker 12: can agree or you can disagree with Donald Trump, but.

694
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:23,480
Speaker 5: What you can't.

695
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:26,480
Speaker 12: Disagree with is that he's doing things very differently.

696
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:27,720
Speaker 1: And this is interesting.

697
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:31,040
Speaker 12: So Trump's presidential power is too much the right amount,

698
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:34,440
Speaker 12: too little. Well, forty seven percent say too much, but

699
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:36,720
Speaker 12: then you get thirty six percent who say the right amount.

700
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:38,400
Speaker 12: Then you get seventeen percent.

701
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:39,000
Speaker 5: Who say too little.

702
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:41,800
Speaker 12: So you're essentially dealing with a majority of the American

703
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:44,479
Speaker 12: public fifty three percent who do not say that Trump

704
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:45,440
Speaker 12: has too much power.

705
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:48,359
Speaker 5: Ran I think it's funny that some I Maga world

706
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:50,400
Speaker 5: saw that as like a brief glimmer of hope, the

707
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:53,880
Speaker 5: Harry Enton thing, which is basically just voters saying we

708
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:57,560
Speaker 5: think the guy is doing things differently. Charlie Kirk pulled

709
00:36:57,560 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 5: out the tweet the quote Trump is not a lie

710
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:03,759
Speaker 5: him duck. If anything, He's a soaring eagle. But the

711
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:07,560
Speaker 5: context of it was Harry Enton basically saying that, yeah,

712
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:09,719
Speaker 5: voters look at or looking at Donald Trump being like,

713
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:12,560
Speaker 5: this dude's doing all kinds of different stuff.

714
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:14,480
Speaker 1: I mean I'd have been in that, just like, yes,

715
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:16,279
Speaker 1: I would have been in that eighty seven or ninety

716
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:20,319
Speaker 1: percent or whatever. Yeah, yeah he is. Yeah, he's the

717
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:24,440
Speaker 1: first one to ship people to dungeons and El Salvador

718
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:27,080
Speaker 1: and then to suggest that he might do it to

719
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:30,600
Speaker 1: American citizens too, That is, he wants to yeah, he

720
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:33,719
Speaker 1: wants to Bush is like Wow, I could do that.

721
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:38,239
Speaker 5: He's like, whoa, that was a possibility that was on

722
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 5: the table.

723
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:41,040
Speaker 1: We had to use that Guantanamo thing. Well, they send

724
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:42,759
Speaker 1: him anywhere. Here's the way to do I thought we

725
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:44,160
Speaker 1: had to do it secretly and send him to the

726
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:48,279
Speaker 1: Egyptian dungeons where they torture them, and but pretend that

727
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:49,040
Speaker 1: we didn't do it.

728
00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:49,800
Speaker 5: Well, here's the difference.

729
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:50,800
Speaker 1: Just do it out loud.

730
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:51,359
Speaker 5: George W.

731
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:53,040
Speaker 4: Bush now gets lots of press.

732
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 5: His daughter's on Today's show, and people think very warmly

733
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:00,919
Speaker 5: about George W. Bush in you know, men Hattan and

734
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:05,160
Speaker 5: you know these these newsrooms whereas and he could send

735
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:09,360
Speaker 5: people to you know, torture sites and black sites. But

736
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 5: Donald Trump is actually honest about what he's doing.

737
00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:15,440
Speaker 1: And so he's hated and again Obama.

738
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:17,399
Speaker 4: The answer is why not dislike both?

739
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:22,360
Speaker 1: Obama not prosecuting the people responsible for the torture program

740
00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:24,440
Speaker 1: continues to aunt us.

741
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:25,760
Speaker 5: That's a good point.

742
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:27,879
Speaker 1: Let's put this one would at the time.

743
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:30,560
Speaker 5: Let's put this poll on the screen. This is a

744
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:34,680
Speaker 5: nine as you go polling results. Ryan, did you take

745
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:37,760
Speaker 5: a look at these as are some post quote Liberation

746
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:42,320
Speaker 5: Day polling fifty one to thirty eight agreement with Republicans

747
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:44,520
Speaker 5: are crashing the American economy in real time and driving

748
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:47,320
Speaker 5: us to a recession. And then fifty one to twenty

749
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:50,359
Speaker 5: agreement with the tariffs of the largest peacetime tax hike

750
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:54,200
Speaker 5: in US history. Those numbers are the combination of strongly

751
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:56,839
Speaker 5: in somewhat degree on both. So that's where you get

752
00:38:56,880 --> 00:39:02,279
Speaker 5: the both fifty one numbers and eight. So I don't

753
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:03,560
Speaker 5: find that particularly surprising.

754
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:06,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you go if you go through this entire poll,

755
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:11,960
Speaker 1: you see a public that you see a public where

756
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:16,600
Speaker 1: Democrats are like massively against all of this, Independence are

757
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:19,040
Speaker 1: hugely against all this by like two to one margins,

758
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 1: and Republicans are pretty squeamish on it. They still like Trump,

759
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:28,319
Speaker 1: But when you dig into Republican support for what's going

760
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:31,960
Speaker 1: on here, it's not that great. I noticed one here

761
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:35,719
Speaker 1: where they said they asked why do so, they asked

762
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:40,200
Speaker 1: why Trump was doing this, And one of the theories

763
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:44,880
Speaker 1: that they asked people about, they said, the tariffs are

764
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:48,799
Speaker 1: a means to compel loyalty from every business that will

765
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:52,600
Speaker 1: need to petition Trump for relief. That's a theory I've

766
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:56,640
Speaker 1: seen Crystal put out that this is part and parcel

767
00:39:56,680 --> 00:40:02,720
Speaker 1: of Trump's consolidation of power. That now, if just exactly

768
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:05,920
Speaker 1: what they said, If you're Apple, or if you're a

769
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:10,160
Speaker 1: small company from Columbus, Ohio, and you're like, look, I'm

770
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:13,120
Speaker 1: going to go under, then you call your congressman, you

771
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:18,440
Speaker 1: call whoever you know who knows Trump, and you plead

772
00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:22,040
Speaker 1: to the king for mercy, and the King grants you mercy,

773
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:27,279
Speaker 1: or else your whole town goes up in amphetamines. And

774
00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:31,719
Speaker 1: the independence said by a forty six to twenty two.

775
00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:34,160
Speaker 1: You know, the rest are like, I'm sure forty six

776
00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:36,640
Speaker 1: to twenty two so more than two to one. Independence

777
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:40,000
Speaker 1: are like, yeah, that's why he's doing this. He's consolidating

778
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:45,000
Speaker 1: his own power. And it fits with what people understand

779
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 1: to be his personality that he loves to be the

780
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:51,920
Speaker 1: guy who's like, you're fired or you're the man, and

781
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:53,759
Speaker 1: he loves to keep people in suspense and to have

782
00:40:53,800 --> 00:41:00,439
Speaker 1: control over them. And I don't think people want their

783
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:03,880
Speaker 1: lives at the being messed with for that reason.

784
00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:06,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, nobody wants their I mean that's the reason

785
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:08,440
Speaker 5: we have the system we have. You shouldn't be at

786
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:12,520
Speaker 5: the whim of a president. I mean, this is congressional power.

787
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:16,080
Speaker 5: He's evoking emergency authority to do this. This is Article

788
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:19,520
Speaker 5: one power and that's part of the problem that's probably

789
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:21,040
Speaker 5: going to come back to him. It is just like

790
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:25,200
Speaker 5: just final point the strange position that people like myself

791
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:27,879
Speaker 5: and probably Stagger to some extent find themselves in, which

792
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:30,279
Speaker 5: is and on the left as well, that it's like

793
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:32,839
Speaker 5: these there's there's something very serious here. And I don't

794
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 5: discount the possibility at all that you know, I'm not

795
00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:39,400
Speaker 5: saying it's a huge possibility, the possibility that there's some

796
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:41,359
Speaker 5: some good that comes out of this because he can

797
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:45,040
Speaker 5: reverse course on a whim. And that's the sort of

798
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:48,760
Speaker 5: strange situation that we find ourselves in in the United States,

799
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:54,239
Speaker 5: is that he's he's he's consolidated emergency authority to do this,

800
00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:57,520
Speaker 5: and I mean where we just kind of have to

801
00:41:57,560 --> 00:42:00,480
Speaker 5: wait to see if he blinks and what that if

802
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:02,799
Speaker 5: he does blink, what it looks like in the particulars

803
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:05,360
Speaker 5: of it. And we're talking to seventy countries that he

804
00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:08,959
Speaker 5: says are bagging to make deals. The amount of power

805
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:12,960
Speaker 5: there is just enormous. So it's just we have no idea,

806
00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:15,919
Speaker 5: We have no idea what's coming down the next few weeks,

807
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:18,120
Speaker 5: which is why we will be here covering all of it.

808
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:21,320
Speaker 1: Maybe, yeah, that's true.

809
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:23,960
Speaker 5: Let's move on to the feud between Peter Navarro and

810
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:29,360
Speaker 5: Elon Musk. If you haven't heard how the feud is

811
00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:33,000
Speaker 5: escalating between Elon Musk and Peter Navarro, you are going

812
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:36,359
Speaker 5: to want to stay tuned for this because I dare

813
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:39,240
Speaker 5: I say, Ryan, it's been a little bit entertaining. Carolin

814
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:42,640
Speaker 5: Levitt at the White House Press briefing yesterday weighed in

815
00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:45,879
Speaker 5: on that rift. Elon Musk is coming from a more

816
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:49,799
Speaker 5: libertarian basically pro free trade. He said he wanted a.

817
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:52,600
Speaker 4: Free trade zone between the United States and the EU.

818
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:56,040
Speaker 5: The other day he has been posting videos of Milton

819
00:42:56,040 --> 00:43:01,080
Speaker 5: Friedman talking about the many benefits of free trade libertarian

820
00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:04,160
Speaker 5: economist Milton Freedman. That is so. Peter Navarro, on the

821
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:08,560
Speaker 5: other hand, is one of the more vocal protectionists who

822
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:12,239
Speaker 5: some people feel is pushing Trump in the direction that

823
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:16,720
Speaker 5: he's gone, maybe to the chagrin of advisors like Scott

824
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:22,960
Speaker 5: Bessant and Howard Lutnik, who probably would prefer a policy

825
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:25,279
Speaker 5: that has pauses and all of that built into it

826
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:28,200
Speaker 5: and hasn't effected stock markets quite in the same way

827
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:30,680
Speaker 5: that it has. So let's roll Carolyn Lovett getting asked

828
00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:34,399
Speaker 5: about that relationship, which is spilling into the public a bit.

829
00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:38,440
Speaker 13: Yesterday, there's been some public sparring between Elon Musk and

830
00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:39,440
Speaker 13: the President's.

831
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:41,400
Speaker 6: Trade advisor Peter Navarro on some of these tariffs.

832
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:44,440
Speaker 13: Must actually refer to Navarre jay as being quote dumber

833
00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:45,520
Speaker 13: than a sack of bricks?

834
00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:48,600
Speaker 6: Are you what of our is the administration? The President

835
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:49,520
Speaker 6: all concerned that.

836
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:52,720
Speaker 14: This is maybe impacting the public's understanding of these tariffs,

837
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:54,480
Speaker 14: It might be messing with the message on it.

838
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:57,520
Speaker 13: You know, look, these are obviously two individuals who have

839
00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:02,440
Speaker 13: very different views on trade tariffs. Boys will be boys,

840
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:05,799
Speaker 13: and we will let their public sparring continue. And you

841
00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:07,440
Speaker 13: guys should all be very grateful that we have the

842
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:11,000
Speaker 13: most transparent administration in history. And I think it also

843
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:14,360
Speaker 13: speaks to the President's willingness to hear from all sides

844
00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:17,040
Speaker 13: that he has people at the highest levels of this government.

845
00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:20,120
Speaker 13: In this White House, you have very diverse opinions on

846
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:23,600
Speaker 13: very diverse issues, But the President takes all opinions in mind,

847
00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:26,239
Speaker 13: and then he makes the best decision based on the

848
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:27,960
Speaker 13: best interests of the American public.

849
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:28,719
Speaker 9: Ryan.

850
00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:32,680
Speaker 5: I don't think that's completely crazy that it's in some

851
00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:36,960
Speaker 5: ways beneficial for us in the public to see where

852
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:41,759
Speaker 5: Elon Musk actually is on trade, and to see how

853
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:45,360
Speaker 5: he treats other people in the administration, and to see

854
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:48,560
Speaker 5: the tension that exists within the administration not just over

855
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:52,160
Speaker 5: the question of trade, but actually over the particular tactics

856
00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:55,480
Speaker 5: of this approach. I don't know. I'm curious how Elon

857
00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:58,520
Speaker 5: Musk would be reacting if, say Bob Lelittheiser had been

858
00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:01,319
Speaker 5: in charge of this I approach. I think there's a

859
00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:04,440
Speaker 5: sense that maybe with Leithheiser in the administration obviously he

860
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:05,960
Speaker 5: was with the first Trump administration, he was with the

861
00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:08,920
Speaker 5: Reagan administration, he seen this kind of a serious policy

862
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:13,560
Speaker 5: type guy who has Trump's ear, would this would this

863
00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:16,400
Speaker 5: rollout have been less chaotic? I don't know. The chaos

864
00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:18,719
Speaker 5: is also clearly part of the point here, But wood

865
00:45:18,719 --> 00:45:20,440
Speaker 5: Elon must be reacting this way.

866
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:21,799
Speaker 4: Under those circumstances.

867
00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:23,759
Speaker 5: I don't know. I think maybe he just really hates

868
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:24,360
Speaker 5: Peter Navarro.

869
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:24,920
Speaker 7: Well.

870
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:27,359
Speaker 1: I also think it's the policy. Like you know, he

871
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:32,280
Speaker 1: is like probably the world's greatest more on at this point,

872
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:36,759
Speaker 1: he invested all of his energy, and you know, many

873
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:41,920
Speaker 1: millions of dollars into electing a guy whose stated policies

874
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:43,560
Speaker 1: would destroy his companies.

875
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:44,480
Speaker 5: That's quite interesting.

876
00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:47,440
Speaker 1: And then he then enacted those stated policies, and the

877
00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:49,919
Speaker 1: guy lost his mind. Now he's talking about a free

878
00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:53,600
Speaker 1: trade deal with Europe, after he has spent the last

879
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:57,560
Speaker 1: year savaging all of the neoliberals who would agree with

880
00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:00,480
Speaker 1: him in making that kind of a free trade deal

881
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:06,160
Speaker 1: and propping up far right wing nationalists across Europe, and

882
00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:09,720
Speaker 1: then and then being shocked when those leopards eat his face.

883
00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:12,440
Speaker 1: It's like, you can't be this stupid. And yes, it's

884
00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:15,239
Speaker 1: nice that we're getting some transparency, but it's also come on,

885
00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:20,600
Speaker 1: it's Elon Musk. It's impossible to not know his every thought.

886
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:22,439
Speaker 1: He forces it right in front of your face.

887
00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:24,200
Speaker 5: Right, it's not an intentional.

888
00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:25,880
Speaker 1: Everybody knows his stupid thoughts.

889
00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:28,040
Speaker 5: It's not an intentional strategy of transparent. It's not like

890
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:30,200
Speaker 5: we are going to finally let the American people in.

891
00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:30,879
Speaker 6: Now.

892
00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:33,160
Speaker 5: The consequence of it, I think is helpful for the

893
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:35,840
Speaker 5: American people. But yes, it's not them being like we

894
00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:38,920
Speaker 5: are so we have such pure heart that we are

895
00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:42,360
Speaker 5: going to let you do this. So we're going to

896
00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:45,680
Speaker 5: play a clip now of Peter Navarro talking about Elon Musk.

897
00:46:45,719 --> 00:46:49,200
Speaker 5: Elon Musk responded to it, and man does that spiral

898
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:51,760
Speaker 5: from there? So let's go ahead and roll this next element.

899
00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:55,520
Speaker 15: When it comes to tariffs and trade. We all understand

900
00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:58,360
Speaker 15: in the White House and the American people understand. And

901
00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:02,360
Speaker 15: Elon's a car manufacturer, but he's not a car manufacturer.

902
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:04,920
Speaker 15: He's a car assembler. In many cases. If you go

903
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:09,080
Speaker 15: to his Texas plan, a good part of the engines

904
00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:13,200
Speaker 15: that he gets, which in the EV case is the

905
00:47:13,239 --> 00:47:16,920
Speaker 15: batteries come from Japan and come from China, the electronics

906
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:21,400
Speaker 15: come from Taiwan. The tires come what we want and

907
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:24,879
Speaker 15: the difference is in our thinking and elons On this

908
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:28,279
Speaker 15: is that we want the tires made in Akron, we

909
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:32,280
Speaker 15: want the transmissions made in Indianapolis, we want the engines

910
00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:37,560
Speaker 15: made in Flint and Saginaw, and we want the cars

911
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:42,680
Speaker 15: manufactured here. It's like this business model where BMW and

912
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:47,040
Speaker 15: Mercedes come in to Spartansburg, South Carolina and have us

913
00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:51,960
Speaker 15: assemble German engines and Austrian transmissions. That doesn't work for America.

914
00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:55,759
Speaker 15: It's bad for our economics. It's bad for our national security.

915
00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:57,839
Speaker 15: We want them to come here. And with the Eon,

916
00:47:57,960 --> 00:48:01,600
Speaker 15: it's fine. He's a car man. If he's a car person,

917
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:04,439
Speaker 15: that's what he does. And he wants to achieve foreign

918
00:48:04,520 --> 00:48:07,040
Speaker 15: parts and we understand it. But we want him home.

919
00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:11,560
Speaker 15: We want him home. National security, I'm sure, and everything's good.

920
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:16,719
Speaker 5: That absolutely said Elon musk Off, and not yeah, there's

921
00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:19,279
Speaker 5: nothing surprising about that setting Elon musk Off. So Elon

922
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:22,320
Speaker 5: musk responded to post of a post of that clip,

923
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:25,880
Speaker 5: and you know, put the little asterisk in his response

924
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:28,960
Speaker 5: to someone who posted the clip and said, this is

925
00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:32,480
Speaker 5: what Peter Navarro said, he put little ascaris Peter Ritardo.

926
00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:34,959
Speaker 1: Well, I hope Musk is happy. He at least gets

927
00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:35,800
Speaker 1: to say that.

928
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:39,640
Speaker 5: He gets to say that golden age. And then he

929
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:43,440
Speaker 5: also replies Navarro is truly a moron. What he says

930
00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:48,640
Speaker 5: here is demonstrably false. Tesla has the most American made cars.

931
00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:52,319
Speaker 5: Navarro is dumber than a sack of bricks. And then

932
00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:55,080
Speaker 5: he tagged the account I find retards and then he

933
00:48:55,239 --> 00:49:00,319
Speaker 5: tagged Peter Navarro's account in his response. There that's what

934
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:05,400
Speaker 5: set off the Caroline Levitt exchange. So again, like it

935
00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:08,840
Speaker 5: makes sense that this is how they're responding to one another.

936
00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:12,279
Speaker 5: And Peter Navarro is somebody who there are a lot

937
00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:15,600
Speaker 5: of people in Trump's orbit who are quite uncomfortable with

938
00:49:15,719 --> 00:49:20,839
Speaker 5: Elon Musk's aggressive libertarian economic policy, particularly because it's led

939
00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:24,520
Speaker 5: him to have deep financial entanglements with China, and a

940
00:49:24,520 --> 00:49:27,920
Speaker 5: lot of people actually just have you saw this, Like

941
00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:29,960
Speaker 5: you saw this spill into the surface with Deep Bannon

942
00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:31,920
Speaker 5: over the HMB stuff.

943
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:34,440
Speaker 4: A lot of this is like simmering.

944
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:38,360
Speaker 5: It doesn't it doesn't erupt every day, but it's shimmering

945
00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:41,080
Speaker 5: beneath the surface between a lot of true believers in

946
00:49:41,239 --> 00:49:47,520
Speaker 5: Trump protectionist circles Trump like the sort of maga industrial

947
00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:51,520
Speaker 5: policy realignment circles who have a deep distrust of Elon Musk.

948
00:49:51,520 --> 00:49:53,600
Speaker 5: And I think that's where you get. Peter Navarro asked

949
00:49:53,640 --> 00:49:57,640
Speaker 5: publicly about Musk, just openly saying like Elon's fine, you know,

950
00:49:57,840 --> 00:50:00,759
Speaker 5: it's all fine, We're glad he's in the administration, but X,

951
00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:03,959
Speaker 5: Y and Z, he's just shooting from the head, and

952
00:50:04,239 --> 00:50:07,680
Speaker 5: that created this public controversy.

953
00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:11,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, and consumers of this news program would never kind

954
00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:14,920
Speaker 1: of mistake me for some Elon Musk fanboy. But he

955
00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:18,200
Speaker 1: does assemble a lot of the batteries here because he

956
00:50:18,239 --> 00:50:21,920
Speaker 1: has a big plant in Nevada that makes batteries for Tesla,

957
00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:25,600
Speaker 1: and Navarro does sound like a moron when he starts

958
00:50:25,640 --> 00:50:30,040
Speaker 1: talking about the difference between an EV car assembler and

959
00:50:30,120 --> 00:50:34,480
Speaker 1: an EV car manufacturer, because the problem that a lot

960
00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:37,799
Speaker 1: of unions and the UAW for instance, has with the

961
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:43,080
Speaker 1: transition from the from the kind of cars they've been

962
00:50:43,120 --> 00:50:47,160
Speaker 1: making for one hundred years to the evs is that

963
00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:49,920
Speaker 1: there's so much easier to assemble. Like an EV is

964
00:50:50,080 --> 00:50:52,600
Speaker 1: it's like a battery and some and some wheels and

965
00:50:52,640 --> 00:50:56,600
Speaker 1: then a really you know, advanced software system wrapped around it,

966
00:50:56,640 --> 00:50:59,000
Speaker 1: and then some panels that fall off as soon as

967
00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:02,239
Speaker 1: you drive the car off the lot. But it he

968
00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:05,840
Speaker 1: keeps kind of reverting back to language about that that

969
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:09,839
Speaker 1: it that that fits better with the old Detroit, like

970
00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:11,960
Speaker 1: we're going to do the transmission and okay, yeah, like

971
00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:14,920
Speaker 1: anyv technically, I guess it has a transmission, but it's

972
00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:17,239
Speaker 1: like a one speed transmission. It's like that's it, Like

973
00:51:17,280 --> 00:51:19,520
Speaker 1: you press the gas and it and it goes. Doesn't

974
00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:21,560
Speaker 1: have the multi speed transmission. It's not you know, you're

975
00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:24,520
Speaker 1: putting the putting the collutch, you know, in V six

976
00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:26,440
Speaker 1: and V eight and like all of these, all of

977
00:51:26,440 --> 00:51:32,799
Speaker 1: the fine tuning that requires sophisticated manufacturing isn't there with

978
00:51:32,880 --> 00:51:36,239
Speaker 1: the quote unquote engine of an EV, which is just

979
00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:42,320
Speaker 1: the battery and it goes so uh yeah, more on

980
00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:45,200
Speaker 1: is fair. I think in this point. I think Muscus

981
00:51:45,320 --> 00:51:47,600
Speaker 1: Muscle's right. There are a lot of musks. Chinese production

982
00:51:48,600 --> 00:51:51,200
Speaker 1: is for the Chinese market and for other markets like

983
00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:54,719
Speaker 1: Tesla's a gold global brand, and you know, the other

984
00:51:55,239 --> 00:51:58,080
Speaker 1: American auto companies should maybe try to figure out why

985
00:51:58,120 --> 00:51:58,480
Speaker 1: that is.

986
00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:00,640
Speaker 5: It's not that he was to your point, it's not

987
00:52:00,680 --> 00:52:06,760
Speaker 5: that he doesn't import materials. It's that he does it last.

988
00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:09,319
Speaker 1: Than Chinese where Earth's and other you know, he needs

989
00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:13,480
Speaker 1: other elements of the Chinese supply chain, but not necessarily

990
00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:15,360
Speaker 1: the ones that Navar was talking about here.

991
00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:18,040
Speaker 5: It's so this is the last element, be five.

992
00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:20,600
Speaker 1: This is also what I mean by we're not bringing

993
00:52:20,600 --> 00:52:23,239
Speaker 1: our best against the Chinese and these negotiations. These these

994
00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:24,480
Speaker 1: are morons, all of them.

995
00:52:26,360 --> 00:52:31,160
Speaker 5: These two. You can just see there's something like this

996
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:33,600
Speaker 5: is what happens internally in every presidential It's like the

997
00:52:35,120 --> 00:52:38,280
Speaker 5: long running bit here in DC about how actually Washington

998
00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:40,080
Speaker 5: is viep. It's not west when it's not house of

999
00:52:40,120 --> 00:52:42,319
Speaker 5: cards like it is, it is veep. It's completely true,

1000
00:52:42,360 --> 00:52:44,239
Speaker 5: it's at this point. But this is the type of

1001
00:52:44,239 --> 00:52:47,520
Speaker 5: stuff that happens internally all the time. Now we can

1002
00:52:47,560 --> 00:52:49,760
Speaker 5: put the next element up on the screen. Caroline Levett

1003
00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:53,600
Speaker 5: total Daman jabbers yesterday, we are the most transparent administration

1004
00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:57,920
Speaker 5: expressing our in history, expressing our disagreements in public. You

1005
00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:02,520
Speaker 5: know again, this this is whatever, I love it whatever.

1006
00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:05,680
Speaker 5: That's basically I mean, that is the best possible response,

1007
00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:07,279
Speaker 5: right Like they're not even trying to spin it and

1008
00:53:07,320 --> 00:53:10,920
Speaker 5: saying everyone is united here this is a totally a

1009
00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:13,080
Speaker 5: white house or everybody's on the same page. We're running

1010
00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:15,440
Speaker 5: like a well oiled machine. And the reason I think

1011
00:53:15,520 --> 00:53:18,360
Speaker 5: is important, which is fundamentally, this is Donald Trump's policy.

1012
00:53:19,120 --> 00:53:21,759
Speaker 5: I don't think Scott Bessett knows or Howard Lutnik knows

1013
00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:23,960
Speaker 5: where Donald Trump wants to stop with any of this.

1014
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:26,839
Speaker 5: I don't think they know. I don't think Jamison Greer

1015
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:30,719
Speaker 5: knows what Donald Trump wants to see in negotiations with

1016
00:53:30,840 --> 00:53:34,920
Speaker 5: Australia and what that means, how long that means he'll continue.

1017
00:53:35,239 --> 00:53:37,520
Speaker 5: You know, they might know that he wants them to

1018
00:53:37,560 --> 00:53:40,560
Speaker 5: address non tariff barriers, great, I don't think they know

1019
00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:44,920
Speaker 5: when he's willing to say that's enough. We have struck

1020
00:53:44,920 --> 00:53:49,040
Speaker 5: a deal with Australia and we will you know, completely

1021
00:53:49,800 --> 00:53:53,279
Speaker 5: come to the table finalize this thing. And tariffs are

1022
00:53:53,280 --> 00:53:56,000
Speaker 5: off or tariff's are much lower than they were, Tariff

1023
00:53:56,040 --> 00:53:58,160
Speaker 5: increas is much lower than it was. And I think

1024
00:53:58,200 --> 00:54:00,000
Speaker 5: that's what this reflects at the end of the day,

1025
00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:02,360
Speaker 5: is like they can't be on the same page because

1026
00:54:02,560 --> 00:54:05,720
Speaker 5: there's one person whose opinion on all of this matters,

1027
00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:08,600
Speaker 5: and he plays it close to the best, and he's

1028
00:54:08,600 --> 00:54:11,120
Speaker 5: doing that because he thinks it's his leverage. But at

1029
00:54:11,120 --> 00:54:13,560
Speaker 5: the same time, they have no idea. Like that's what

1030
00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:14,719
Speaker 5: that means at the end of the day, is that

1031
00:54:15,040 --> 00:54:16,959
Speaker 5: it's just this is what we were talking about this earlier.

1032
00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:21,160
Speaker 5: It's what Donald Trump decides, and he's speaking of not

1033
00:54:21,280 --> 00:54:24,440
Speaker 5: being transparent, like we actually don't really know because he

1034
00:54:24,480 --> 00:54:26,080
Speaker 5: hasn't said where this stops.

1035
00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:27,719
Speaker 1: It's good enough, And in the end, this is a

1036
00:54:27,800 --> 00:54:32,440
Speaker 1: rare moment where it doesn't it doesn't matter, like the

1037
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:36,880
Speaker 1: propaganda doesn't matter, the messaging doesn't matter the infighting, the

1038
00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:42,680
Speaker 1: ex fighting, none of that really matters. What matters because

1039
00:54:42,760 --> 00:54:47,440
Speaker 1: it's the public is not going to experience this refracted

1040
00:54:47,480 --> 00:54:50,640
Speaker 1: through the media. They're going to experience it. And this

1041
00:54:50,680 --> 00:54:52,440
Speaker 1: stuff is either going to work or it's not going

1042
00:54:52,520 --> 00:54:55,120
Speaker 1: to work. And it doesn't work, it does not matter

1043
00:54:55,160 --> 00:54:57,640
Speaker 1: what they say about it. And if it works, people

1044
00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:03,880
Speaker 1: will be very happy. So far not working, and that's

1045
00:55:03,960 --> 00:55:07,400
Speaker 1: all that's going to matter. Like if we get a

1046
00:55:07,520 --> 00:55:11,239
Speaker 1: financial crisis cent a recession out of this, it's it

1047
00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:14,280
Speaker 1: really isn't going to matter how the White House messaged

1048
00:55:14,320 --> 00:55:16,280
Speaker 1: it and whether they were on the same page, whether

1049
00:55:16,280 --> 00:55:20,200
Speaker 1: their fights were internal and leaking or playing out on Twitter,

1050
00:55:20,480 --> 00:55:23,080
Speaker 1: won't matter. If you lost your job, you don't care.

1051
00:55:26,040 --> 00:55:28,280
Speaker 5: Let's move on to this big decision from the Supreme

1052
00:55:28,320 --> 00:55:32,080
Speaker 5: Court yesterday. We can put c one up on the screen,

1053
00:55:32,680 --> 00:55:35,040
Speaker 5: the Supreme Court. This is the CNN headline, Supreme Court

1054
00:55:35,120 --> 00:55:39,080
Speaker 5: backs Trump for now on fired probationary federal employees. We'll

1055
00:55:39,120 --> 00:55:42,839
Speaker 5: read a bit from CNN's reporting. They say Supreme Court

1056
00:55:42,840 --> 00:55:46,560
Speaker 5: allowed the Trump administration to keep several thousand probationary federal

1057
00:55:46,600 --> 00:55:49,919
Speaker 5: employees it is attempting to fire off the payroll while

1058
00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:53,840
Speaker 5: lower courts wig whether the downsizing efforts are legal. The

1059
00:55:53,920 --> 00:55:55,759
Speaker 5: latest in a series of wins for the White House

1060
00:55:55,800 --> 00:55:58,880
Speaker 5: at the Conservative High Court, and so that's referencing obviously

1061
00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:04,640
Speaker 5: the decision the day before that Amy Conny Barrett dissented from,

1062
00:56:04,680 --> 00:56:09,040
Speaker 5: but the rest of the Conservative justices agreed on and.

1063
00:56:09,040 --> 00:56:11,839
Speaker 1: The argument what they the argument they made was that

1064
00:56:11,880 --> 00:56:14,920
Speaker 1: the unions don't have standing to sue here.

1065
00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:15,880
Speaker 5: Oh in yesterday's decisions.

1066
00:56:16,040 --> 00:56:18,640
Speaker 1: Yeah right, yeah, So it's not that they didn't rule

1067
00:56:18,680 --> 00:56:21,600
Speaker 1: on the merits of the case. They said, which to me, like,

1068
00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:24,040
Speaker 1: how could a union not have standing? Like what is

1069
00:56:24,080 --> 00:56:27,120
Speaker 1: the point of a union if not to be the

1070
00:56:27,120 --> 00:56:29,720
Speaker 1: representative of the workers in a lawsuit like this? But whatever,

1071
00:56:29,880 --> 00:56:34,200
Speaker 1: they that's where the Republican court is. The unions don't

1072
00:56:34,239 --> 00:56:36,720
Speaker 1: have standing in a case that involves all the firing

1073
00:56:36,760 --> 00:56:40,200
Speaker 1: of all of these workers. But also one kind of

1074
00:56:40,200 --> 00:56:42,520
Speaker 1: funny quibble I would have with the payroll, the point

1075
00:56:42,520 --> 00:56:46,799
Speaker 1: about whether they're on the payroll. These firings involved first

1076
00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:50,719
Speaker 1: putting people on these long administrative leaves, then giving them severance,

1077
00:56:51,640 --> 00:56:55,320
Speaker 1: and then once that's wrapped up, then they're on unemployment benefits.

1078
00:56:56,160 --> 00:56:59,600
Speaker 1: So if you think you taxpayer are saving money. You're

1079
00:56:59,640 --> 00:57:03,279
Speaker 1: not just that these people are not working, You're still

1080
00:57:03,320 --> 00:57:08,040
Speaker 1: paying them. By the end of this, the process of

1081
00:57:08,080 --> 00:57:14,000
Speaker 1: firing these people could be the most costly example of

1082
00:57:14,040 --> 00:57:16,640
Speaker 1: waste fraud abuse in government. Like ever, you're going to

1083
00:57:16,760 --> 00:57:21,840
Speaker 1: end up paying billions of dollars to many thousands of

1084
00:57:21,880 --> 00:57:28,800
Speaker 1: people to not work, which, by anybody's definition is waste

1085
00:57:28,840 --> 00:57:30,600
Speaker 1: fraud and abuse.

1086
00:57:31,360 --> 00:57:32,520
Speaker 4: Not I'm true, although is it.

1087
00:57:32,680 --> 00:57:33,920
Speaker 1: Imagine if I came to you and I was like,

1088
00:57:34,360 --> 00:57:37,200
Speaker 1: I found a government agency that is spent, that is

1089
00:57:37,240 --> 00:57:41,240
Speaker 1: actively and purposely spending billions of dollars to get people

1090
00:57:41,280 --> 00:57:44,520
Speaker 1: to not work on your behalf, You'd be like, Wow,

1091
00:57:44,560 --> 00:57:47,840
Speaker 1: that's a scandal. It's called doge, it's.

1092
00:57:47,720 --> 00:57:50,400
Speaker 5: Called doggie, it's called doggie. So the question is whether

1093
00:57:50,520 --> 00:57:55,320
Speaker 5: it's waste running an abuse that justifies the end of

1094
00:57:56,360 --> 00:57:58,720
Speaker 5: the means of waste abuse, to justify the.

1095
00:57:58,760 --> 00:58:01,440
Speaker 1: End of that limiting ways for musc of these oligarchs,

1096
00:58:02,120 --> 00:58:05,520
Speaker 1: that is a feature like these people not working. If

1097
00:58:05,560 --> 00:58:09,000
Speaker 1: they are regulating them, if they're enforcing laws on companies,

1098
00:58:09,800 --> 00:58:12,120
Speaker 1: that is a feature for them, not a bug. They

1099
00:58:12,120 --> 00:58:15,600
Speaker 1: don't want these people at the EPA telling you, oh,

1100
00:58:15,600 --> 00:58:17,520
Speaker 1: by the way, you can't do this thing to this river.

1101
00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:23,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, so this is more from So, this is

1102
00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:25,920
Speaker 5: more from the CNN article. They say labor unions and

1103
00:58:25,960 --> 00:58:28,800
Speaker 5: other groups had challenged the OPM so Officer Personal Management's

1104
00:58:28,880 --> 00:58:31,120
Speaker 5: rule in the firings, which affected thousands of employees and

1105
00:58:31,120 --> 00:58:33,600
Speaker 5: sent shockwaves through various federal agencies, some of which later

1106
00:58:33,640 --> 00:58:36,960
Speaker 5: rehired the workers. US District Judge William also nominated by

1107
00:58:37,000 --> 00:58:40,240
Speaker 5: Bill Clinton, ordered the administration to immediately offer over sixteen

1108
00:58:40,280 --> 00:58:43,880
Speaker 5: thousand probationary employees their jobs back. Each agency had and

1109
00:58:43,920 --> 00:58:47,280
Speaker 5: still has discretion to hire and fire its own employees. Here,

1110
00:58:47,320 --> 00:58:50,640
Speaker 5: the agencies were directed by OPM to fire all probationary employees,

1111
00:58:50,640 --> 00:58:53,840
Speaker 5: and the executed. They executed that directive to staunch the

1112
00:58:53,880 --> 00:58:57,960
Speaker 5: irreparable harms to organizational plaintiffs caused by OPM unlawfully slashing

1113
00:58:58,160 --> 00:59:01,560
Speaker 5: other agency staff required immediately reinstating those employees. And so

1114
00:59:01,560 --> 00:59:04,160
Speaker 5: with the Supreme Court said here is that the unions

1115
00:59:04,520 --> 00:59:07,880
Speaker 5: didn't have standing to make that case to the point

1116
00:59:07,880 --> 00:59:11,360
Speaker 5: you were making earlier on So what this means is

1117
00:59:11,480 --> 00:59:15,640
Speaker 5: thousands of probationary employees. By the way, the probation employees

1118
00:59:15,680 --> 00:59:20,880
Speaker 5: have been a subject of controversy among people supportive of

1119
00:59:21,000 --> 00:59:25,440
Speaker 5: DOGE because the probation probationary employees oftentimes are people that

1120
00:59:25,480 --> 00:59:27,840
Speaker 5: maybe recently got a raise and so we're on probationary

1121
00:59:27,880 --> 00:59:30,400
Speaker 5: status in this new position, and so they might be

1122
00:59:30,440 --> 00:59:32,360
Speaker 5: some of the best and brightest. The second of all,

1123
00:59:32,560 --> 00:59:36,480
Speaker 5: they're new employees in many cases who are just coming

1124
00:59:36,520 --> 00:59:39,880
Speaker 5: in to the administrative state and haven't been molded by

1125
00:59:40,000 --> 00:59:46,360
Speaker 5: the decades of bureaucratic procedure and processes and ideology, just

1126
00:59:46,400 --> 00:59:49,200
Speaker 5: the ideology of the bureaucracy in and of itself. And

1127
00:59:49,280 --> 00:59:52,480
Speaker 5: so if you're DOGE, you might look at probationary employees

1128
00:59:52,520 --> 00:59:56,960
Speaker 5: and say, these are the people to keep, These are

1129
00:59:57,000 --> 01:00:00,320
Speaker 5: the better people to keep. So even within DOSH goals,

1130
01:00:00,320 --> 01:00:04,080
Speaker 5: the fate of these probationer employees is a question in and

1131
01:00:04,080 --> 01:00:06,080
Speaker 5: of itself. But right now, what they're trying to prove,

1132
01:00:06,480 --> 01:00:08,600
Speaker 5: and they're excited to keep proving through the courts, is

1133
01:00:08,640 --> 01:00:11,120
Speaker 5: that they can do this because that is the unitary

1134
01:00:11,160 --> 01:00:15,120
Speaker 5: executive theory that Trump is and rust Boat and others

1135
01:00:15,160 --> 01:00:19,080
Speaker 5: are borrowing from Richard Nixon and saying this is the

1136
01:00:19,120 --> 01:00:22,600
Speaker 5: president's administration. It is under the will of the president.

1137
01:00:22,720 --> 01:00:26,000
Speaker 5: The president can do what he wants, and he can,

1138
01:00:26,240 --> 01:00:28,400
Speaker 5: you know, do it through the process that he wants.

1139
01:00:29,120 --> 01:00:31,400
Speaker 5: That's what they're the point that they're trying to make

1140
01:00:31,440 --> 01:00:34,480
Speaker 5: through the courts right now, And what it means in

1141
01:00:34,880 --> 01:00:38,280
Speaker 5: practical terms for these employees is that their jobs. It's

1142
01:00:38,320 --> 01:00:40,960
Speaker 5: like incredible whiplash. I know a lot of people don't

1143
01:00:41,000 --> 01:00:43,640
Speaker 5: have sympathy for bureaucrats in Washington.

1144
01:00:44,320 --> 01:00:44,520
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1145
01:00:44,560 --> 01:00:48,000
Speaker 5: People, Well, it's not a particularly sympathetic group of people

1146
01:00:48,120 --> 01:00:51,760
Speaker 5: in the aggregate. When you dive into some of these individualations,

1147
01:00:51,760 --> 01:00:53,720
Speaker 5: you're like, oh, my gosh, that's what this person is doing.

1148
01:00:53,800 --> 01:00:56,840
Speaker 5: That sounds very important, like VA work, for example, some

1149
01:00:56,880 --> 01:00:59,000
Speaker 5: work at the VA. Like, oh, maybe we should keep

1150
01:00:59,040 --> 01:01:01,880
Speaker 5: that person. But the aggregate not the most sympathetic group

1151
01:01:01,920 --> 01:01:05,200
Speaker 5: of people. But nevertheless, their livelihoods are just pinging through

1152
01:01:05,240 --> 01:01:06,000
Speaker 5: the courts right now.

1153
01:01:06,480 --> 01:01:07,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, not ideal.

1154
01:01:08,240 --> 01:01:09,320
Speaker 5: Not I deal.

1155
01:01:09,800 --> 01:01:10,000
Speaker 7: Ryan.

1156
01:01:10,520 --> 01:01:14,560
Speaker 5: Let's move on to Capitol Hill, where a mutiny, to

1157
01:01:14,680 --> 01:01:18,840
Speaker 5: quote Politico is brewing, and that's actually the correct terminology here.

1158
01:01:18,840 --> 01:01:21,640
Speaker 5: There really is a mutiny brewing on Capitol Hill at

1159
01:01:21,680 --> 01:01:25,479
Speaker 5: the moment over Trump's one big beautiful bill. They want

1160
01:01:25,480 --> 01:01:29,120
Speaker 5: this pass before Easter, which gives them House Republicans, Republican

1161
01:01:29,160 --> 01:01:31,440
Speaker 5: leadership on Capitol Hill in the House and Senate forty

1162
01:01:31,480 --> 01:01:34,360
Speaker 5: eight hours to get this through the House of Representatives

1163
01:01:34,920 --> 01:01:40,200
Speaker 5: before the House leaves for a two week recess. Right now,

1164
01:01:40,760 --> 01:01:43,440
Speaker 5: this is we could put d one up on the screen.

1165
01:01:43,920 --> 01:01:47,080
Speaker 5: The state of affairs is pretty bad for Trump. So

1166
01:01:47,160 --> 01:01:50,240
Speaker 5: this is the chairman of the Freedom Caucus yesterday before

1167
01:01:50,280 --> 01:01:52,160
Speaker 5: going into a meeting with Trump saying he's just not

1168
01:01:52,280 --> 01:01:54,240
Speaker 5: going to change my mind. And actually I correct myself,

1169
01:01:54,280 --> 01:01:56,760
Speaker 5: Andy Harris did not go to the meeting. Other people

1170
01:01:56,800 --> 01:01:58,440
Speaker 5: went to the meeting. Andy Harris said he's not going

1171
01:01:58,480 --> 01:01:59,760
Speaker 5: to change my mind. So I'm not even going to

1172
01:01:59,800 --> 01:02:03,440
Speaker 5: meet with Donald Trump over this bill. And there's a

1173
01:02:03,480 --> 01:02:07,959
Speaker 5: new political article out this morning from Meredith Lee Hill

1174
01:02:08,520 --> 01:02:11,280
Speaker 5: about that mutiny where they this is actually really well said.

1175
01:02:11,320 --> 01:02:12,800
Speaker 5: In the lead of the piece, it says, first they

1176
01:02:12,800 --> 01:02:14,880
Speaker 5: caved on the speaker election, then last month they fell

1177
01:02:14,880 --> 01:02:16,640
Speaker 5: in line on a budget vote and again on divisive

1178
01:02:16,680 --> 01:02:19,160
Speaker 5: government funding bill. But now it seems House Conservatives are

1179
01:02:19,280 --> 01:02:22,800
Speaker 5: ready to make a stand. Dozens of House Republicans are

1180
01:02:22,880 --> 01:02:25,920
Speaker 5: undecided or outright opposed to rubber stamping a Senate approved

1181
01:02:25,920 --> 01:02:30,200
Speaker 5: budget blueprint for the GOP's domestic policy megabill and an

1182
01:02:30,240 --> 01:02:33,360
Speaker 5: all out whip effort from Johnson. Mike Johnson and his

1183
01:02:33,480 --> 01:02:36,640
Speaker 5: leadership team has only produced modest gains. If Johnson and

1184
01:02:36,680 --> 01:02:39,840
Speaker 5: Trump can't flip most of those members in the next

1185
01:02:39,880 --> 01:02:42,920
Speaker 5: forty eight hours, lawmark makers will start to board flights

1186
01:02:42,960 --> 01:02:45,520
Speaker 5: for a two week recess, denying the president a show

1187
01:02:45,520 --> 01:02:48,880
Speaker 5: of legislative progress as financial markets wobble over his tariffs.

1188
01:02:48,920 --> 01:02:52,080
Speaker 5: And that's exactly the question here. Trump wants this bill

1189
01:02:52,120 --> 01:02:56,200
Speaker 5: passed right now. He applied more pressure throughout the day

1190
01:02:56,280 --> 01:02:58,720
Speaker 5: yesterday at that meeting and then at the National Republican

1191
01:02:58,720 --> 01:03:05,160
Speaker 5: Congressional Committee dinner. Is very very intent on getting this

1192
01:03:05,200 --> 01:03:08,520
Speaker 5: bill passed because they think it's something that can And

1193
01:03:08,560 --> 01:03:10,640
Speaker 5: I'm curious for your take on this, Ryan Steady, the

1194
01:03:10,640 --> 01:03:14,320
Speaker 5: markets a little bit that can, you know, be something

1195
01:03:14,360 --> 01:03:16,640
Speaker 5: that shows if you get the corporate tax rate permanent,

1196
01:03:16,920 --> 01:03:19,840
Speaker 5: it helps with restoring et cetera.

1197
01:03:20,560 --> 01:03:22,000
Speaker 4: And that's why they want this right now.

1198
01:03:22,120 --> 01:03:24,840
Speaker 5: They want it before Easter two week recess, within forty

1199
01:03:24,880 --> 01:03:28,600
Speaker 5: eight hours. And what we're starting to see is both

1200
01:03:28,800 --> 01:03:32,040
Speaker 5: establishment pushback on Trump. We posted that clip of Tom

1201
01:03:32,080 --> 01:03:34,520
Speaker 5: Tillis yesterday saying whose scalp can I have to jamis

1202
01:03:34,520 --> 01:03:39,360
Speaker 5: secure USTR. So you see Republicans who are actually uncomfortable

1203
01:03:39,840 --> 01:03:43,320
Speaker 5: with the tariff and sort of libertarian perspective, and now

1204
01:03:43,520 --> 01:03:48,000
Speaker 5: Republicans who are uncomfortable with the way Trump is handling

1205
01:03:48,120 --> 01:03:53,120
Speaker 5: the budget from almost a libertarian perspective, but on the

1206
01:03:53,160 --> 01:03:54,080
Speaker 5: populace side.

1207
01:03:54,800 --> 01:03:58,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so this is the this is more of

1208
01:03:58,520 --> 01:04:02,320
Speaker 1: the reconciliation, right, This is where they're they're writing the

1209
01:04:02,440 --> 01:04:06,920
Speaker 1: underlying reconciliation bill, which is only kind of the guideline

1210
01:04:06,960 --> 01:04:09,720
Speaker 1: then for the next bill that they where they end

1211
01:04:09,800 --> 01:04:11,600
Speaker 1: up where they fill in the details about what the

1212
01:04:11,640 --> 01:04:14,640
Speaker 1: tax rates would be and what the different different policies

1213
01:04:14,840 --> 01:04:17,200
Speaker 1: would be. So which makes it a little easier for

1214
01:04:17,280 --> 01:04:21,760
Speaker 1: Trump to say, look, just just vote yes on this,

1215
01:04:22,400 --> 01:04:26,120
Speaker 1: and then I promise you when we do the final bill,

1216
01:04:26,720 --> 01:04:30,640
Speaker 1: I'll make sure that I take care of your your

1217
01:04:30,880 --> 01:04:33,240
Speaker 1: your demands here on the tax rates and on and

1218
01:04:33,280 --> 01:04:37,200
Speaker 1: on the spending cuts and what Andy Harris, you know

1219
01:04:37,240 --> 01:04:40,160
Speaker 1: that is saying I don't trust I don't trust the

1220
01:04:40,160 --> 01:04:41,680
Speaker 1: president to be able to do that. Not that I

1221
01:04:41,680 --> 01:04:44,600
Speaker 1: don't trust the president, but I don't think that he

1222
01:04:45,120 --> 01:04:49,120
Speaker 1: has the power really to go to go forward and

1223
01:04:49,160 --> 01:04:52,040
Speaker 1: do that, especially as he's floating that he's going to

1224
01:04:52,080 --> 01:04:54,760
Speaker 1: raise taxes on the rich m hm, when whereas the

1225
01:04:54,840 --> 01:04:57,800
Speaker 1: Freedom Callers generally wants them to, you know, either keep

1226
01:04:57,840 --> 01:05:01,160
Speaker 1: the taxes on the riches saying, or cut them and so.

1227
01:05:02,600 --> 01:05:06,600
Speaker 1: But but the Freedom Caucus, I'm curious why you think

1228
01:05:06,640 --> 01:05:09,600
Speaker 1: this is different. I'm just so used to the Freedom Caucus.

1229
01:05:10,440 --> 01:05:11,720
Speaker 1: I mean, I have a theory for why this could

1230
01:05:11,760 --> 01:05:14,880
Speaker 1: be different. I'm curious for yours. I'm just so used

1231
01:05:14,880 --> 01:05:18,040
Speaker 1: to the Freedom Caucus talking this huge game and then

1232
01:05:19,000 --> 01:05:21,360
Speaker 1: the night before the vote, they're promising that this time

1233
01:05:21,360 --> 01:05:24,120
Speaker 1: they're really going to hang together against and it's this

1234
01:05:24,160 --> 01:05:26,360
Speaker 1: is against Trump, like against Bayner. You know, they got

1235
01:05:26,360 --> 01:05:30,080
Speaker 1: a spine against McCarthy. They've got a spine against Trump.

1236
01:05:30,440 --> 01:05:30,680
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1237
01:05:31,920 --> 01:05:35,600
Speaker 1: They have always just uh talked to talk, and then

1238
01:05:35,640 --> 01:05:38,440
Speaker 1: when a time comes time to walk to walk, they

1239
01:05:38,160 --> 01:05:42,240
Speaker 1: they they get just enough no votes that it still passes.

1240
01:05:42,360 --> 01:05:44,360
Speaker 1: So why I have a theory, But I'm curious for

1241
01:05:44,400 --> 01:05:45,560
Speaker 1: why you think this is different.

1242
01:05:45,600 --> 01:05:47,480
Speaker 5: Well, my theory is that they feel like they've been

1243
01:05:47,480 --> 01:05:50,080
Speaker 5: taken for Trumps for the last roughly.

1244
01:05:49,920 --> 01:05:53,320
Speaker 1: The last every time they are Chumps.

1245
01:05:53,400 --> 01:05:55,040
Speaker 5: Well, I'd say that's they would say that every time

1246
01:05:55,080 --> 01:05:58,000
Speaker 5: over the course of the last year. Whereas before, I mean,

1247
01:05:58,000 --> 01:06:01,400
Speaker 5: when you're in opposition, you know, it's it's easier. But

1248
01:06:01,840 --> 01:06:06,400
Speaker 5: whereas before they feel like they were being they were

1249
01:06:07,360 --> 01:06:11,240
Speaker 5: able to make more significant concessions, whereas because of the

1250
01:06:11,280 --> 01:06:14,480
Speaker 5: Trump factor they have acquiesced and said we trust Trump.

1251
01:06:15,160 --> 01:06:16,600
Speaker 4: There's this new thing where.

1252
01:06:16,440 --> 01:06:19,960
Speaker 5: Conservative media used to be like conservative media itself, not

1253
01:06:20,000 --> 01:06:23,560
Speaker 5: like Fox News. But you know, the ecosystem of alternative

1254
01:06:23,560 --> 01:06:25,240
Speaker 5: conservative media used to be very in favor of the

1255
01:06:25,280 --> 01:06:27,880
Speaker 5: Freedom Caucus and still is for the most part. But

1256
01:06:29,320 --> 01:06:31,960
Speaker 5: when Trump is on the other side of the Freedom Caucus,

1257
01:06:32,200 --> 01:06:34,400
Speaker 5: a lot of that mediabal side with Trump, right, you know,

1258
01:06:34,440 --> 01:06:37,160
Speaker 5: you get the bright parts of the world, well or

1259
01:06:37,200 --> 01:06:39,440
Speaker 5: the Bannons of the world, will get on board with

1260
01:06:39,480 --> 01:06:41,160
Speaker 5: Trump and say this is Trump's plan.

1261
01:06:41,680 --> 01:06:43,440
Speaker 4: We're going along with Trump. This is the point that

1262
01:06:43,440 --> 01:06:44,200
Speaker 4: Trump is making.

1263
01:06:45,080 --> 01:06:47,640
Speaker 5: But at this point that's going on so long that

1264
01:06:47,720 --> 01:06:52,160
Speaker 5: the Freedom Caucus is like, hey, we cannot pass this

1265
01:06:52,320 --> 01:06:58,320
Speaker 5: budget resolution without spending cuts that offset what's going on,

1266
01:06:58,520 --> 01:07:01,560
Speaker 5: Like you just this is a quote to the Hill

1267
01:07:01,840 --> 01:07:04,280
Speaker 5: from Eric Burleson, who's a Freedom Caucus member who called

1268
01:07:04,360 --> 01:07:08,720
Speaker 5: Trump's budget bill quote financially immortal. They're not, you know,

1269
01:07:08,800 --> 01:07:12,800
Speaker 5: quibbling with the bill. They see it as being like

1270
01:07:12,960 --> 01:07:19,520
Speaker 5: really significantly messed up. And that's where this is Lloyd's

1271
01:07:19,560 --> 01:07:21,800
Speaker 5: smucker quote. We've got to that's a hell of a name.

1272
01:07:22,040 --> 01:07:24,280
Speaker 5: We've got to reduce spending to put the country on

1273
01:07:24,320 --> 01:07:27,480
Speaker 5: a better path fiscally. Yeah, I think the disagreement is

1274
01:07:27,520 --> 01:07:29,200
Speaker 5: some of us really believe that the resolution is an

1275
01:07:29,200 --> 01:07:31,880
Speaker 5: important foundation on which to build a good bill, and

1276
01:07:31,920 --> 01:07:33,480
Speaker 5: so we want to ensure that some of the principles

1277
01:07:33,480 --> 01:07:39,040
Speaker 5: that all of us agree to are included. Man, good luck,

1278
01:07:39,160 --> 01:07:40,000
Speaker 5: that's all I can say.

1279
01:07:41,080 --> 01:07:45,479
Speaker 1: Yeah. My theory for why they would they might hold

1280
01:07:45,520 --> 01:07:48,680
Speaker 1: the line here is that it's not a big it's

1281
01:07:48,720 --> 01:07:51,360
Speaker 1: not the stakes aren't that high. Like if you don't

1282
01:07:51,360 --> 01:07:56,040
Speaker 1: pass this reconciliation instruction now, you can still do it

1283
01:07:56,080 --> 01:07:59,280
Speaker 1: in two weeks. There's not gonna be a government shutdown.

1284
01:07:59,640 --> 01:08:04,919
Speaker 1: Like there's there's no Trump wants it. But it's as

1285
01:08:04,960 --> 01:08:06,760
Speaker 1: my kids say, or I would say to my kids,

1286
01:08:06,760 --> 01:08:10,400
Speaker 1: it's a want, not a need. So he doesn't need it.

1287
01:08:10,720 --> 01:08:12,920
Speaker 1: And so he doesn't need it. It's like what leverage

1288
01:08:12,920 --> 01:08:14,320
Speaker 1: does he have? And also I think Trump is going

1289
01:08:14,400 --> 01:08:19,439
Speaker 1: to find out something about the law of political capital

1290
01:08:20,400 --> 01:08:24,880
Speaker 1: in Washington that there's only there's only so much you

1291
01:08:24,920 --> 01:08:28,600
Speaker 1: can do to your own approval rating and to the

1292
01:08:28,720 --> 01:08:32,080
Speaker 1: hopes and the feelings of the American public. Like if

1293
01:08:32,080 --> 01:08:34,680
Speaker 1: they turn and they're like, we think we're headed for

1294
01:08:34,680 --> 01:08:38,240
Speaker 1: a recession and this all sucks. You don't have as

1295
01:08:38,320 --> 01:08:41,240
Speaker 1: much power. When you call up Andy Harris and they're like,

1296
01:08:41,240 --> 01:08:43,519
Speaker 1: I really need you here, it's like, well, you know what,

1297
01:08:43,680 --> 01:08:45,840
Speaker 1: maybe you shouldn't have like wrecked the country in three months.

1298
01:08:45,880 --> 01:08:49,160
Speaker 5: It's completely true that, you know, one of the people

1299
01:08:49,240 --> 01:08:54,360
Speaker 5: leading this current resistance from Trump's right flank is chip

1300
01:08:54,479 --> 01:08:57,320
Speaker 5: Roy and Tip Roy and Trump have had many differences

1301
01:08:57,560 --> 01:09:01,320
Speaker 5: and trade barbs and sort of it's baked into their relationship.

1302
01:09:01,320 --> 01:09:04,160
Speaker 5: But chip Roy is a leader in freedom coucice circles.

1303
01:09:04,200 --> 01:09:06,920
Speaker 5: Hee's somebody even in like conservative media that people look

1304
01:09:07,000 --> 01:09:10,640
Speaker 5: to as kind of a weather vein, you know, to

1305
01:09:10,680 --> 01:09:13,960
Speaker 5: see what the conservative take is or the kind of

1306
01:09:13,960 --> 01:09:18,280
Speaker 5: hardcore conservative take is on a given situation on Capitol Hill.

1307
01:09:18,439 --> 01:09:21,280
Speaker 5: And he's being really adamant right now. And I think

1308
01:09:21,400 --> 01:09:25,240
Speaker 5: ran part of the reason is while there is support

1309
01:09:25,400 --> 01:09:29,800
Speaker 5: for industrial policy protectionism even from people who would have

1310
01:09:29,920 --> 01:09:33,280
Speaker 5: previously in the Tea Party Arab been very skeptical of that.

1311
01:09:33,360 --> 01:09:37,840
Speaker 5: There's some support for restructuring our trade relationships, there's not

1312
01:09:37,960 --> 01:09:45,200
Speaker 5: support for this indefinite testing of the market and of

1313
01:09:45,360 --> 01:09:50,719
Speaker 5: these major companies' bottom lines because to a certain extent,

1314
01:09:50,840 --> 01:09:53,320
Speaker 5: it doesn't it gets away from popular. We've talked about

1315
01:09:53,360 --> 01:09:54,960
Speaker 5: this entire show, but like at a certain extent, it

1316
01:09:55,120 --> 01:10:00,639
Speaker 5: doesn't become populist, it becomes like oligarchical. So I think

1317
01:10:00,680 --> 01:10:05,040
Speaker 5: that's right now probably factoring in and this is I

1318
01:10:05,040 --> 01:10:07,679
Speaker 5: think the point you're making is probably factoring into why

1319
01:10:07,680 --> 01:10:13,120
Speaker 5: there's a sort of invigorate, reinvigorated wave of frustration among

1320
01:10:13,240 --> 01:10:16,200
Speaker 5: folks in Freedom Caucass circles like, hey, we have to

1321
01:10:16,240 --> 01:10:19,360
Speaker 5: codify these spending cuts. These spending cuts can't just we're

1322
01:10:19,400 --> 01:10:23,120
Speaker 5: cutting all these taxes. Great, if we don't codify these

1323
01:10:23,120 --> 01:10:26,680
Speaker 5: spending cuts, now, when are we ever going to do that?

1324
01:10:27,600 --> 01:10:29,880
Speaker 1: So Freedom Caucus might wind up with some of the

1325
01:10:29,920 --> 01:10:32,640
Speaker 1: same bad luck that the Democratic populists wound up with,

1326
01:10:32,720 --> 01:10:37,479
Speaker 1: which is that the moment that they they had like

1327
01:10:38,120 --> 01:10:42,519
Speaker 1: had neoliberalism on the run, they've and they've got the

1328
01:10:42,560 --> 01:10:45,519
Speaker 1: American Rescue Plan, and they've got the child tax credit,

1329
01:10:45,640 --> 01:10:48,240
Speaker 1: and they've got all of this kind of industrial spending.

1330
01:10:49,800 --> 01:10:54,679
Speaker 1: The exact moment that they're that they're notching win after

1331
01:10:54,720 --> 01:10:59,760
Speaker 1: win after win. The economy is coming back from a pandemic.

1332
01:11:00,840 --> 01:11:03,400
Speaker 1: You've got all these corporations jacking up prices, you've got

1333
01:11:03,400 --> 01:11:06,880
Speaker 1: supply chains collapsing, and you've got these price increases. So

1334
01:11:08,120 --> 01:11:12,200
Speaker 1: it was the most difficult political environment to push a

1335
01:11:12,200 --> 01:11:16,080
Speaker 1: lot of new federal spending, even popular federal spending, into

1336
01:11:16,920 --> 01:11:22,439
Speaker 1: the economy and into in the public, and a lot

1337
01:11:22,439 --> 01:11:24,000
Speaker 1: of it was rolled back as a result. People were

1338
01:11:24,080 --> 01:11:27,400
Speaker 1: very angry then when it was rolled back. Now, just

1339
01:11:27,520 --> 01:11:32,040
Speaker 1: as the Freedom Caucus is getting the ability to really

1340
01:11:32,200 --> 01:11:35,920
Speaker 1: slash spending in a serious way, they might be doing

1341
01:11:36,000 --> 01:11:39,080
Speaker 1: it into the teeth of a fierce recession, which is

1342
01:11:39,120 --> 01:11:44,559
Speaker 1: the absolute last time the public wants to hear about austerity. Yeah,

1343
01:11:45,320 --> 01:11:48,000
Speaker 1: it's just unfair. The world isn't fair.

1344
01:11:48,120 --> 01:11:49,400
Speaker 5: The world is not fair.

1345
01:11:49,800 --> 01:11:51,400
Speaker 4: Life lessons from Ryan Grinn.

1346
01:11:52,200 --> 01:11:54,519
Speaker 5: Ryan Grinn, I just said I was trying to say

1347
01:11:54,560 --> 01:11:57,880
Speaker 5: Ryan grimm on counterpoints, and it turned out to be

1348
01:11:58,000 --> 01:12:02,880
Speaker 5: Ryan Grin counterpoints. So either way, I think it works great.

1349
01:12:03,320 --> 01:12:05,600
Speaker 5: Let's move on to this interview set up with Congressman

1350
01:12:05,640 --> 01:12:08,639
Speaker 5: de Lucio, who has taken some arrows in a really

1351
01:12:08,680 --> 01:12:12,000
Speaker 5: interesting way for his criticism of Donald Trump, while also

1352
01:12:12,040 --> 01:12:13,519
Speaker 5: supporting just.

1353
01:12:13,479 --> 01:12:15,400
Speaker 1: The idea that may be some tariffs are okay, well

1354
01:12:15,439 --> 01:12:17,519
Speaker 1: maybe a little bit. Yeah, all right, stick around for that,

1355
01:12:20,320 --> 01:12:22,880
Speaker 1: all right, to talk more about these tariffs and the

1356
01:12:22,920 --> 01:12:27,959
Speaker 1: Democratic response, Joined by Pittsburgh Democratic Congressman Chris Deluzio. Congressman,

1357
01:12:27,960 --> 01:12:28,879
Speaker 1: thanks for joining.

1358
01:12:28,720 --> 01:12:30,720
Speaker 6: Us, Thanks Yan, thanks for having me on.

1359
01:12:31,160 --> 01:12:33,080
Speaker 1: So you found yourself kind of at the center of

1360
01:12:33,120 --> 01:12:36,280
Speaker 1: this controversy as somebody who has you know, actually cares

1361
01:12:36,320 --> 01:12:42,120
Speaker 1: about industrial policy and manufacturing. All of a sudden, the

1362
01:12:42,280 --> 01:12:47,080
Speaker 1: entire world is focused on this. You wrote a piece

1363
01:12:47,080 --> 01:12:48,840
Speaker 1: in the New York Times that got a lot of

1364
01:12:48,920 --> 01:12:54,080
Speaker 1: attention fairly recently and also had a post go kind

1365
01:12:54,120 --> 01:13:00,519
Speaker 1: of viral on the interwebs where you made the case that, Okay,

1366
01:13:00,600 --> 01:13:03,680
Speaker 1: Trump's tariffs are wrong, but here's where tariff policy and

1367
01:13:03,720 --> 01:13:06,840
Speaker 1: industrial policy you can play a role. And man, I

1368
01:13:06,880 --> 01:13:11,439
Speaker 1: was stunned to see how many Democrats were furious about that.

1369
01:13:11,479 --> 01:13:12,400
Speaker 1: They're like, how dare you?

1370
01:13:12,800 --> 01:13:12,880
Speaker 7: Like?

1371
01:13:13,360 --> 01:13:16,200
Speaker 1: What all we should be saying is that Trump had

1372
01:13:16,760 --> 01:13:18,599
Speaker 1: So we want to get get into that in a moment,

1373
01:13:19,120 --> 01:13:22,519
Speaker 1: But I wanted to start with Carolin Levitt over in

1374
01:13:22,680 --> 01:13:27,599
Speaker 1: the White House talking about iPhone production in the wake

1375
01:13:27,680 --> 01:13:31,880
Speaker 1: of some news that if we completely reshored all of

1376
01:13:31,880 --> 01:13:35,200
Speaker 1: our iPhone production and iPhone would cost something like twenty

1377
01:13:35,280 --> 01:13:38,040
Speaker 1: nine thousand dollars. I don't know what kind of deal

1378
01:13:38,080 --> 01:13:39,720
Speaker 1: you get from your carrier that makes it a little

1379
01:13:39,760 --> 01:13:42,639
Speaker 1: bit cheaper. Maybe you can get that down to twenty

1380
01:13:42,720 --> 01:13:45,439
Speaker 1: five thousand with the right bargaining in the Verizon store.

1381
01:13:45,600 --> 01:13:48,559
Speaker 1: But let's roll miss Levitt here, and I want to

1382
01:13:48,560 --> 01:13:49,960
Speaker 1: get some of your response to this.

1383
01:13:50,479 --> 01:13:52,920
Speaker 14: Does the President endure something that Howard let They've said

1384
01:13:52,920 --> 01:13:55,400
Speaker 14: on television this weekend, which was that the army of

1385
01:13:55,439 --> 01:13:58,120
Speaker 14: millions and millions of human beings screwing in little screws

1386
01:13:58,160 --> 01:13:59,880
Speaker 14: to make iPhones, that that kind of thing is going

1387
01:14:00,080 --> 01:14:01,760
Speaker 14: to be moving to the US. Is that how the

1388
01:14:01,760 --> 01:14:05,160
Speaker 14: President envisions manufacturing shifting and if so, how.

1389
01:14:05,000 --> 01:14:05,760
Speaker 16: Long would that take?

1390
01:14:05,880 --> 01:14:09,160
Speaker 13: Roughly, the President wants to increase manufacturing jobs here in

1391
01:14:09,200 --> 01:14:11,240
Speaker 13: the United States of America, but he's also looking at

1392
01:14:11,320 --> 01:14:15,200
Speaker 13: advanced technologies. He's also looking at AI and emerging fields

1393
01:14:15,240 --> 01:14:17,559
Speaker 13: that are growing around the world that the United States

1394
01:14:17,560 --> 01:14:19,200
Speaker 13: needs to be a leader in as well. So there's

1395
01:14:19,240 --> 01:14:23,280
Speaker 13: an array of diverse jobs, more traditional manufacturing jobs as

1396
01:14:23,280 --> 01:14:27,000
Speaker 13: you discussed, but also jobs in advanced technologies. The President

1397
01:14:27,040 --> 01:14:28,040
Speaker 13: is looking at all of those.

1398
01:14:28,080 --> 01:14:29,240
Speaker 5: He wants them to come back home.

1399
01:14:29,400 --> 01:14:32,160
Speaker 14: But iPhones specifically, is that something that he thinks is

1400
01:14:32,160 --> 01:14:32,559
Speaker 14: the kind.

1401
01:14:32,400 --> 01:14:34,000
Speaker 6: Of technology that can move to the US.

1402
01:14:34,120 --> 01:14:36,919
Speaker 13: Absolutely, he believes we have the labor, we have the workforce,

1403
01:14:37,120 --> 01:14:39,439
Speaker 13: we have the resources to do it. And as you know,

1404
01:14:39,520 --> 01:14:42,360
Speaker 13: Apple has invested five hundred billion dollars here in the

1405
01:14:42,439 --> 01:14:44,880
Speaker 13: United States. So if Apple didn't think the United States

1406
01:14:44,920 --> 01:14:46,400
Speaker 13: could do it, they probably wouldn't have put up that

1407
01:14:46,439 --> 01:14:47,560
Speaker 13: big chunk of change.

1408
01:14:47,720 --> 01:14:50,639
Speaker 1: So is this talk of three thousand or thirty thousand

1409
01:14:50,640 --> 01:14:56,679
Speaker 1: dollars iPhones? Is this fear mongering to push back against

1410
01:14:56,840 --> 01:14:59,840
Speaker 1: a decent industrial policy or is this something that needs

1411
01:14:59,840 --> 01:15:01,639
Speaker 1: to be be taken into consideration. Where do you come

1412
01:15:01,640 --> 01:15:07,000
Speaker 1: down on this questions of costs versus the ability to

1413
01:15:07,320 --> 01:15:09,040
Speaker 1: make a living right?

1414
01:15:09,160 --> 01:15:10,920
Speaker 17: Like your question gets to the heart of this, which

1415
01:15:10,960 --> 01:15:13,120
Speaker 17: is why the President's across the.

1416
01:15:13,120 --> 01:15:14,920
Speaker 6: Board blanket approach has been terrible.

1417
01:15:15,240 --> 01:15:17,880
Speaker 17: You cannot use this one tool of tariffs, throw them

1418
01:15:17,920 --> 01:15:20,440
Speaker 17: on everybody and expect you're going to magically at manufacturing

1419
01:15:20,439 --> 01:15:22,439
Speaker 17: in this country. You got to look where there are

1420
01:15:22,520 --> 01:15:24,639
Speaker 17: trade sheets and be tough on enforcing them. And that's

1421
01:15:24,680 --> 01:15:27,840
Speaker 17: communist China around things like steel, for instance. You've got

1422
01:15:27,920 --> 01:15:31,080
Speaker 17: to have the industrial policy. You've got to incentivize manufacturing

1423
01:15:31,120 --> 01:15:33,680
Speaker 17: in this country. You need real policy from Washington to

1424
01:15:33,800 --> 01:15:37,599
Speaker 17: do it, especially when you've got sectors and companies here

1425
01:15:37,680 --> 01:15:41,280
Speaker 17: that have to compete with foreign competition that's being propped

1426
01:15:41,360 --> 01:15:42,160
Speaker 17: up by their governments.

1427
01:15:42,200 --> 01:15:44,599
Speaker 6: This is not some equal playing field. And I come

1428
01:15:44,640 --> 01:15:45,040
Speaker 6: back to the.

1429
01:15:45,120 --> 01:15:48,240
Speaker 17: Fundamental problem of what Trump did, grow in tariffs on

1430
01:15:48,320 --> 01:15:52,720
Speaker 17: everybody friend and foe alike, does not work. You've got

1431
01:15:52,840 --> 01:15:55,320
Speaker 17: to be specific to the sector. You've got to have

1432
01:15:55,439 --> 01:15:58,560
Speaker 17: industrial policy with it. And we're seeing the cost of

1433
01:15:58,640 --> 01:16:00,519
Speaker 17: this right now and the way markets are responded, the

1434
01:16:00,560 --> 01:16:01,800
Speaker 17: way workers are responding.

1435
01:16:02,640 --> 01:16:03,080
Speaker 1: This isn't it.

1436
01:16:03,560 --> 01:16:06,240
Speaker 17: And that doesn't mean that you should ignore when a

1437
01:16:06,320 --> 01:16:10,519
Speaker 17: country like China breaks the rules. Tough enforcement includes things

1438
01:16:10,600 --> 01:16:13,800
Speaker 17: like targeted tariffs. I don't think people are comfortable with, say,

1439
01:16:14,240 --> 01:16:17,000
Speaker 17: slave labor making goods that get important to this country.

1440
01:16:17,400 --> 01:16:20,080
Speaker 17: But that is so far afield from what Donald Trump

1441
01:16:20,240 --> 01:16:23,400
Speaker 17: just did. We can't turn the blind eye to getting

1442
01:16:23,400 --> 01:16:25,479
Speaker 17: industrial policy right in this country, and.

1443
01:16:25,640 --> 01:16:27,439
Speaker 5: If I were to channel a sentiment, I think some

1444
01:16:27,600 --> 01:16:29,479
Speaker 5: of the voters in your district to are still with

1445
01:16:29,760 --> 01:16:31,800
Speaker 5: Donald Trump. I don't know how many it is, but

1446
01:16:32,439 --> 01:16:36,800
Speaker 5: I presume some people just knowing the Republican electorate will

1447
01:16:36,880 --> 01:16:40,200
Speaker 5: probably say to you, Congressman, well, if it's not Donald Trump,

1448
01:16:40,439 --> 01:16:43,760
Speaker 5: then what is it? Is it, Connala Harris, is you know,

1449
01:16:44,120 --> 01:16:49,600
Speaker 5: is my alternative some moderate Republican? Nobody else wants to

1450
01:16:49,880 --> 01:16:52,800
Speaker 5: take on these problems quite like Donald Trump. And this

1451
01:16:52,880 --> 01:16:56,000
Speaker 5: gets to the point that Ryan was making when we

1452
01:16:56,080 --> 01:16:59,160
Speaker 5: were speaking earlier, that this is I mean, you're almost

1453
01:16:59,400 --> 01:17:02,200
Speaker 5: an outlier in your own party, and it has to

1454
01:17:02,240 --> 01:17:06,080
Speaker 5: be sort of tough to convince other Democrats that there's

1455
01:17:06,439 --> 01:17:09,519
Speaker 5: a nuance that's important to talk about. Right now. We

1456
01:17:09,600 --> 01:17:11,479
Speaker 5: were talking before we went to air that you were

1457
01:17:11,560 --> 01:17:14,280
Speaker 5: on the front page of Politico and an article that's headline,

1458
01:17:14,280 --> 01:17:17,360
Speaker 5: Democrats find Trump's haphazard tariffs are uniting them on trade.

1459
01:17:17,600 --> 01:17:19,839
Speaker 5: But there's a quote in that piece from Charlotte Climber

1460
01:17:20,360 --> 01:17:22,680
Speaker 5: that says Democrats are pretty uniform.

1461
01:17:22,439 --> 01:17:24,560
Speaker 4: If not entirely or this is from you.

1462
01:17:24,640 --> 01:17:26,880
Speaker 5: You say Democrats are pretty uniform, if not entirely uniform,

1463
01:17:26,920 --> 01:17:27,559
Speaker 5: and making the case that.

1464
01:17:27,560 --> 01:17:29,120
Speaker 4: What's happening right now is really dangerous.

1465
01:17:29,400 --> 01:17:32,560
Speaker 5: Charlotte Climber says, trying to offer nuance on Trump's disastrous

1466
01:17:32,560 --> 01:17:34,479
Speaker 5: tariffs policy in this moment is like telling someone with

1467
01:17:34,520 --> 01:17:37,240
Speaker 5: alcohol poisoning, you know, red wine and moderation is actually

1468
01:17:37,280 --> 01:17:40,080
Speaker 5: good for heart health. It's missing the point. It's bad messaging.

1469
01:17:40,520 --> 01:17:42,519
Speaker 5: Can I just get you to respond to that, because

1470
01:17:42,600 --> 01:17:45,280
Speaker 5: I think there are probably a lot of Trump fans

1471
01:17:45,360 --> 01:17:49,599
Speaker 5: in your own district who say, well, what is my option?

1472
01:17:49,840 --> 01:17:53,519
Speaker 5: What's the alternative? Maybe this is crazy, but the alternative

1473
01:17:53,560 --> 01:17:54,320
Speaker 5: seems crazy.

1474
01:17:54,120 --> 01:17:54,479
Speaker 9: To me too.

1475
01:17:55,520 --> 01:17:57,040
Speaker 17: Well, I think you get to the heart of whether

1476
01:17:57,080 --> 01:17:59,320
Speaker 17: they're saying the other guy's bad is just enough. I

1477
01:17:59,320 --> 01:18:02,480
Speaker 17: don't think it's good policy. I think it's good politics.

1478
01:18:02,640 --> 01:18:04,400
Speaker 17: Right we now have Donald Trump in a second term

1479
01:18:04,439 --> 01:18:06,400
Speaker 17: and the presidency and Democrats have lost the House in

1480
01:18:06,439 --> 01:18:06,840
Speaker 17: the Senate.

1481
01:18:07,400 --> 01:18:08,400
Speaker 6: I don't think us saying the.

1482
01:18:08,439 --> 01:18:10,360
Speaker 17: Other guy is bad, which we should say, and I

1483
01:18:10,439 --> 01:18:12,360
Speaker 17: am saying, is a guy from the rust belt. Trade

1484
01:18:12,360 --> 01:18:14,439
Speaker 17: policy right now is reckless and dangerous.

1485
01:18:14,720 --> 01:18:15,320
Speaker 6: We should say that.

1486
01:18:15,800 --> 01:18:17,280
Speaker 17: We got to tell the American people what the heck

1487
01:18:17,320 --> 01:18:18,920
Speaker 17: we're going to do if they trust us to govern

1488
01:18:19,200 --> 01:18:20,519
Speaker 17: in two years and four years.

1489
01:18:20,920 --> 01:18:23,760
Speaker 6: There is never a bad time to say what.

1490
01:18:23,840 --> 01:18:25,800
Speaker 17: You're doing to protect your people when they're getting hurt,

1491
01:18:26,040 --> 01:18:28,000
Speaker 17: and what you will do if you're trusted to govern.

1492
01:18:28,160 --> 01:18:29,680
Speaker 6: And I don't shy away from that ever.

1493
01:18:30,560 --> 01:18:33,040
Speaker 1: To that point, let's put up E three, which is

1494
01:18:33,080 --> 01:18:35,599
Speaker 1: your New York Times article. This ran about a month ago.

1495
01:18:35,840 --> 01:18:38,280
Speaker 1: You know you could see you could see this coming

1496
01:18:38,320 --> 01:18:40,280
Speaker 1: at a time. I'm a rust belt Democrat from a

1497
01:18:40,320 --> 01:18:45,560
Speaker 1: swing district, anti tariff, absolute absolutism is a mistake. And

1498
01:18:45,640 --> 01:18:49,040
Speaker 1: then let's put up E four. Let's play this, this thought,

1499
01:18:49,120 --> 01:18:53,920
Speaker 1: which is what got the likes of Charlotte Clymer and

1500
01:18:54,040 --> 01:18:57,120
Speaker 1: others just absolutely lived at you. It's about it's about

1501
01:18:57,160 --> 01:19:02,160
Speaker 1: a minute, and let's roll that here.

1502
01:19:02,640 --> 01:19:05,959
Speaker 17: Chris Deluzio here from Western Pennsylvania, proud son of the Rosspelt,

1503
01:19:05,960 --> 01:19:08,200
Speaker 17: and I think are wrong. For decades, can sens us

1504
01:19:08,240 --> 01:19:11,000
Speaker 17: in Washington on free trades been a race to the bottom.

1505
01:19:11,080 --> 01:19:13,960
Speaker 17: It's hollowed out our industrial power, cost us good jobs.

1506
01:19:14,120 --> 01:19:17,280
Speaker 17: The president's tariff announcement, though in his trade strategy, has

1507
01:19:17,320 --> 01:19:20,719
Speaker 17: been chaotic but inconsistence. We should not treat our economic

1508
01:19:20,880 --> 01:19:24,760
Speaker 17: allies like Canada the same as trade cheats like communist China.

1509
01:19:24,960 --> 01:19:27,840
Speaker 17: I do not want to see corporations use the cover

1510
01:19:28,040 --> 01:19:30,640
Speaker 17: of these tariffs to now price gouge families. Terifts are

1511
01:19:30,680 --> 01:19:33,320
Speaker 17: a powerful tool. They can be used strategically or they

1512
01:19:33,360 --> 01:19:36,160
Speaker 17: can be misused. They've got to be used in sectors

1513
01:19:36,200 --> 01:19:38,519
Speaker 17: that make sense. They've got to be paired with real,

1514
01:19:38,720 --> 01:19:42,840
Speaker 17: meaningful industrial policies, pro worker policies. I'm talking about tax

1515
01:19:42,920 --> 01:19:46,960
Speaker 17: incentives to Jews American manufacturing, get those supply chains back

1516
01:19:47,040 --> 01:19:50,880
Speaker 17: home to go after corporate price gouging and stock buybacks,

1517
01:19:51,160 --> 01:19:54,400
Speaker 17: and better protections for workers, have the freedom.

1518
01:19:54,080 --> 01:19:55,280
Speaker 1: To form and join a union.

1519
01:19:55,439 --> 01:19:57,839
Speaker 6: We've got to get a better trade approach in this country.

1520
01:19:58,240 --> 01:20:00,439
Speaker 1: We've got to put workers in American fas families at

1521
01:20:00,439 --> 01:20:03,080
Speaker 1: the heart of it. For me, from the left, it

1522
01:20:03,240 --> 01:20:05,519
Speaker 1: was kind of depressing to see something that seemed to

1523
01:20:05,640 --> 01:20:10,200
Speaker 1: me to be fairly straightforward and sensical treated as some

1524
01:20:10,360 --> 01:20:14,560
Speaker 1: type of capitulation to Trump. Like like you listen to that,

1525
01:20:14,600 --> 01:20:19,640
Speaker 1: You're like, yeah, that all makes sense? Was that viral response?

1526
01:20:19,760 --> 01:20:23,439
Speaker 1: Do you think not real life and isolated on the internet.

1527
01:20:23,479 --> 01:20:29,120
Speaker 1: Does that represent a significant faction within the Democratic Party

1528
01:20:29,160 --> 01:20:33,240
Speaker 1: that is genuinely still you know, dug In on you

1529
01:20:33,439 --> 01:20:37,320
Speaker 1: pure free trade and against any industrial policy. How have

1530
01:20:37,400 --> 01:20:41,160
Speaker 1: your colleagues responded to this versus how it was received

1531
01:20:41,560 --> 01:20:44,439
Speaker 1: by the kind of blue sky public. Yeah.

1532
01:20:44,479 --> 01:20:46,280
Speaker 17: I mean, look, I'll say from where I sit Western

1533
01:20:46,320 --> 01:20:49,400
Speaker 17: Pennsylvania and communities like mine across say the rust belt

1534
01:20:50,080 --> 01:20:53,080
Speaker 17: people want us to have more manufacturing jobs, they want

1535
01:20:53,160 --> 01:20:56,280
Speaker 17: us to have a better trade policy, and overwhelming they

1536
01:20:56,320 --> 01:20:58,560
Speaker 17: think what Donald Trump just did is not it that

1537
01:20:58,760 --> 01:21:01,640
Speaker 17: it is a mistake, and we can chew gum and

1538
01:21:01,720 --> 01:21:03,360
Speaker 17: walk at the same time, we got.

1539
01:21:03,320 --> 01:21:05,040
Speaker 6: To be able to criticize the other guy and say

1540
01:21:05,120 --> 01:21:06,719
Speaker 6: also what we think and believe.

1541
01:21:07,320 --> 01:21:10,040
Speaker 17: And I don't know who the heck thinks it is

1542
01:21:10,160 --> 01:21:13,439
Speaker 17: smart policy or politics to tell people that what we

1543
01:21:13,520 --> 01:21:16,040
Speaker 17: shouldn't have manufacturing jobs in America, that we should turn

1544
01:21:16,080 --> 01:21:19,680
Speaker 17: the blind eye to exploited workers and environmental pollution that

1545
01:21:19,800 --> 01:21:20,439
Speaker 17: we all pay for.

1546
01:21:21,120 --> 01:21:21,960
Speaker 6: That's not the answer.

1547
01:21:22,439 --> 01:21:26,639
Speaker 17: And we even saw President Biden, I think correctly respond

1548
01:21:26,800 --> 01:21:30,559
Speaker 17: to trade cheats and breaking the rules and chining around

1549
01:21:30,600 --> 01:21:33,559
Speaker 17: steel for instance, to do strategic targeted tariffs there pair

1550
01:21:33,640 --> 01:21:35,760
Speaker 17: it with some incentives here at home that is so

1551
01:21:36,000 --> 01:21:39,400
Speaker 17: far afield from what Donald Trump just did. And yet

1552
01:21:39,840 --> 01:21:42,360
Speaker 17: I think you finally see some Democrats saying, Okay, what

1553
01:21:42,439 --> 01:21:45,960
Speaker 17: he did was wrong. Here's what we think the Democratic

1554
01:21:46,040 --> 01:21:50,280
Speaker 17: Party ought to do to revitalize American manufacturing. And I

1555
01:21:50,360 --> 01:21:52,479
Speaker 17: serve on the Armed Services Committee. There's a lot of

1556
01:21:52,520 --> 01:21:55,040
Speaker 17: time sped over there worrying about our defense industrial base.

1557
01:21:55,320 --> 01:21:57,160
Speaker 17: If you don't have an industrial base in this country,

1558
01:21:57,240 --> 01:21:59,519
Speaker 17: you are not ever going to be able to mobilize

1559
01:21:59,560 --> 01:22:01,720
Speaker 17: the way you had to and say the Second World War,

1560
01:22:01,840 --> 01:22:04,800
Speaker 17: god forbid, we're in something like that again. You have

1561
01:22:04,920 --> 01:22:06,600
Speaker 17: to have an industrial base in this country for a

1562
01:22:06,640 --> 01:22:08,720
Speaker 17: lot of reasons. In national security. It's a big part

1563
01:22:08,760 --> 01:22:08,920
Speaker 17: of it.

1564
01:22:09,760 --> 01:22:15,240
Speaker 5: How optimistic are you that Democrats are? Let'ld say, there's

1565
01:22:15,280 --> 01:22:16,799
Speaker 5: a concern that a lot of people have that because

1566
01:22:16,840 --> 01:22:19,080
Speaker 5: of the way that Donald Trump has approached this tariff

1567
01:22:19,160 --> 01:22:21,560
Speaker 5: is now going to become a culture war word that

1568
01:22:22,280 --> 01:22:24,879
Speaker 5: people are going to kind of polarize in elite spaces

1569
01:22:25,360 --> 01:22:28,840
Speaker 5: even further than they already were against tariff's period. And

1570
01:22:29,000 --> 01:22:33,240
Speaker 5: I guess are you optimistic? Joe Biden had an industrial policy.

1571
01:22:33,439 --> 01:22:37,639
Speaker 5: He kept Trump's first term China tariffs, but that feels

1572
01:22:37,640 --> 01:22:39,880
Speaker 5: almost like a relic of the past of the Democratic Party.

1573
01:22:39,920 --> 01:22:44,439
Speaker 5: And I'm curious if you think that's true, especially as

1574
01:22:44,600 --> 01:22:47,639
Speaker 5: as Democrats have sort of, to paraphrase this political article,

1575
01:22:48,040 --> 01:22:50,560
Speaker 5: unified against the Trump tariffs. Is there a risk that

1576
01:22:50,800 --> 01:22:54,000
Speaker 5: Democrats just sort of become not just anti tariffs, but

1577
01:22:54,200 --> 01:22:59,160
Speaker 5: disinterested in industrial policy, disinterested in balancing some of these

1578
01:22:59,240 --> 01:23:01,000
Speaker 5: genuinely problem matic relationships.

1579
01:23:01,840 --> 01:23:02,280
Speaker 1: I hope not.

1580
01:23:02,720 --> 01:23:05,280
Speaker 17: We still have to make stuff in America, and you know,

1581
01:23:05,360 --> 01:23:07,240
Speaker 17: we can't just be focused on the past. We got

1582
01:23:07,320 --> 01:23:10,560
Speaker 17: to make stuff that we can compete and that we

1583
01:23:10,680 --> 01:23:14,400
Speaker 17: need in the economy of tomorrow. I think it would

1584
01:23:14,400 --> 01:23:17,759
Speaker 17: be a mistake for Democrats to walk away from caring

1585
01:23:17,760 --> 01:23:20,519
Speaker 17: about manufacturing jobs. Isle sense that either right. I think

1586
01:23:20,560 --> 01:23:23,400
Speaker 17: it's fine to criticize the president. I criticize the president here,

1587
01:23:24,080 --> 01:23:25,679
Speaker 17: but I think there are a lot of us, most

1588
01:23:25,720 --> 01:23:28,240
Speaker 17: of us, many of us who want to have strong

1589
01:23:28,360 --> 01:23:33,400
Speaker 17: manufacturing jobs and have that industrial policy with labor alongside.

1590
01:23:33,439 --> 01:23:35,360
Speaker 6: At the heart of putting those policies together.

1591
01:23:36,200 --> 01:23:38,640
Speaker 17: That's the Democratic Party coalition that I know that is

1592
01:23:39,320 --> 01:23:42,160
Speaker 17: rock solid in Western Pennsylvania places like it, and it's where.

1593
01:23:42,040 --> 01:23:43,200
Speaker 6: We go in the future to win.

1594
01:23:45,280 --> 01:23:46,880
Speaker 1: How is this going to end? Do you have any

1595
01:23:47,080 --> 01:23:50,880
Speaker 1: for people who are scared watching this? Do you are

1596
01:23:50,920 --> 01:23:52,680
Speaker 1: you in touch with the White House at all, Like,

1597
01:23:52,760 --> 01:23:55,000
Speaker 1: what does democratic leadership think about this?

1598
01:23:55,160 --> 01:23:55,320
Speaker 5: Like this?

1599
01:23:56,240 --> 01:23:58,599
Speaker 1: How do where do we go from here? Like Walster,

1600
01:23:58,680 --> 01:23:59,960
Speaker 1: it seems to think it's going to back down. I

1601
01:24:00,040 --> 01:24:00,479
Speaker 1: don't think so.

1602
01:24:01,360 --> 01:24:02,920
Speaker 17: And I don't think you say, the White House man,

1603
01:24:02,920 --> 01:24:04,840
Speaker 17: I don't think there's one one there.

1604
01:24:04,960 --> 01:24:06,479
Speaker 6: What the heck they're doing? I mean, that's that's the

1605
01:24:06,560 --> 01:24:09,280
Speaker 6: other problem here, and our allies and our adversaries and

1606
01:24:09,400 --> 01:24:12,759
Speaker 6: like see that. And even you talk to business leaders,

1607
01:24:13,680 --> 01:24:14,400
Speaker 6: they don't know how the.

1608
01:24:14,400 --> 01:24:17,360
Speaker 17: Heck to plan investment if they want to bring manufacturing

1609
01:24:17,439 --> 01:24:19,920
Speaker 17: back when they've got the trade environment changing day to day.

1610
01:24:20,320 --> 01:24:23,120
Speaker 17: You need certainty to even make the kind of investments

1611
01:24:23,160 --> 01:24:26,200
Speaker 17: you'd want to grow American manufacturing. So this is also

1612
01:24:26,320 --> 01:24:30,320
Speaker 17: reckless and nuts and is divorced from any real meaningful

1613
01:24:30,320 --> 01:24:33,479
Speaker 17: industrial policy or strategy that you would actually need to

1614
01:24:33,560 --> 01:24:35,639
Speaker 17: supercharge the kind of jobs we want in this country.

1615
01:24:36,280 --> 01:24:38,040
Speaker 1: All right, well, thank you so much, is right?

1616
01:24:38,080 --> 01:24:40,000
Speaker 17: And I say that as a guy from the rest

1617
01:24:40,000 --> 01:24:42,639
Speaker 17: special investimania who wants to see these jobs grow.

1618
01:24:42,720 --> 01:24:43,479
Speaker 6: It's just nuts.

1619
01:24:43,800 --> 01:24:46,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's how that's how I feel too. It's

1620
01:24:46,080 --> 01:24:48,840
Speaker 1: like you're given a bad name to the entire idea

1621
01:24:49,160 --> 01:24:51,559
Speaker 1: of trying to do this like the next as you're

1622
01:24:51,840 --> 01:24:55,040
Speaker 1: kind of finding out that the next person that comes

1623
01:24:55,080 --> 01:25:00,439
Speaker 1: forward with ideas about how to revitalize American manufacturing people

1624
01:25:00,479 --> 01:25:03,280
Speaker 1: are gonna be like, that's cool, but are you going

1625
01:25:03,360 --> 01:25:05,640
Speaker 1: to make it so I can't retire again? Because that

1626
01:25:05,800 --> 01:25:12,200
Speaker 1: wasn't fun so sucks. Anyway, thanks for joining us.

1627
01:25:13,439 --> 01:25:14,280
Speaker 5: Thank you tigers Man.

1628
01:25:17,280 --> 01:25:20,479
Speaker 1: Hamas, through attorneys in the United Kingdom, has filed suit

1629
01:25:21,160 --> 01:25:25,120
Speaker 1: to have its terror listing delisted. We can put this

1630
01:25:25,479 --> 01:25:28,439
Speaker 1: first element up on the screen. This is reported in

1631
01:25:28,479 --> 01:25:31,720
Speaker 1: drop site News by Jeremy ska Hill this morning. It's

1632
01:25:31,760 --> 01:25:33,559
Speaker 1: a there's a it's a more than a hundred page

1633
01:25:34,040 --> 01:25:40,439
Speaker 1: legal filing that includes several components, one of which we

1634
01:25:40,560 --> 01:25:43,120
Speaker 1: want to go. I want to go just go through

1635
01:25:43,160 --> 01:25:45,800
Speaker 1: here because it is kind of a historic and kind

1636
01:25:45,840 --> 01:25:51,800
Speaker 1: of fascinating document. One of the one of the founders

1637
01:25:52,080 --> 01:25:57,840
Speaker 1: of Hamas, Musa Abu Marzouk, filed a kind of eleven

1638
01:25:57,880 --> 01:26:03,840
Speaker 1: or twelve page kind of accompanying letter along with it,

1639
01:26:04,840 --> 01:26:08,519
Speaker 1: in which he makes the case for why Hamas should

1640
01:26:08,560 --> 01:26:11,040
Speaker 1: not actually be listed as a terror group.

1641
01:26:11,479 --> 01:26:11,599
Speaker 7: UH.

1642
01:26:11,760 --> 01:26:16,720
Speaker 1: The the basis for the case is, uh Hamas has

1643
01:26:16,840 --> 01:26:19,200
Speaker 1: never this is this is the argument that that they

1644
01:26:19,320 --> 01:26:23,120
Speaker 1: make Hamas has never engaged in any attacks, you know,

1645
01:26:23,320 --> 01:26:27,160
Speaker 1: outside of history what they call historic Palestine.

1646
01:26:27,800 --> 01:26:27,920
Speaker 9: Uh.

1647
01:26:28,439 --> 01:26:34,120
Speaker 1: They specifically note that despite the UK's role in facilitating

1648
01:26:34,280 --> 01:26:36,800
Speaker 1: the ongoing genocide they have, they have never and will

1649
01:26:36,880 --> 01:26:40,880
Speaker 1: never attack Britain in any way. They said, if if

1650
01:26:40,960 --> 01:26:43,680
Speaker 1: a if a British citizen signs up for the I

1651
01:26:43,760 --> 01:26:46,200
Speaker 1: d F and comes into Gaza, then their fair game.

1652
01:26:46,800 --> 01:26:51,799
Speaker 1: But otherwise they they they, unlike some other Palestinian factions,

1653
01:26:52,560 --> 01:26:55,519
Speaker 1: have never engaged in any terrorism or milton action outside

1654
01:26:55,560 --> 01:27:01,000
Speaker 1: of what they would call historic Palestine or the zionistdentity

1655
01:27:01,120 --> 01:27:04,200
Speaker 1: or whatever. They also have and we want to go

1656
01:27:04,240 --> 01:27:07,000
Speaker 1: into detail of this because it's because it's I think

1657
01:27:07,000 --> 01:27:11,000
Speaker 1: it's really interesting. They also talk about free speech, the

1658
01:27:11,120 --> 01:27:14,479
Speaker 1: threat that Zionism poses to free speech in the West.

1659
01:27:15,479 --> 01:27:19,640
Speaker 1: They talk about anti Semitism, and not only do they

1660
01:27:19,880 --> 01:27:25,439
Speaker 1: decry the scourge of anti Semitism, they argue kind of

1661
01:27:25,560 --> 01:27:30,400
Speaker 1: echoing arguments that you've hear on this program that conflating

1662
01:27:31,240 --> 01:27:35,639
Speaker 1: anti Zionism and anti Semitism, conflating anti semitism with criticism

1663
01:27:35,720 --> 01:27:40,960
Speaker 1: of Israel waters down the definition of anti Semitism and

1664
01:27:41,040 --> 01:27:44,519
Speaker 1: actually makes it more likely that you're going to see

1665
01:27:44,560 --> 01:27:51,680
Speaker 1: more anti Semitism. They Hamas specifically praises Jewish students who

1666
01:27:51,760 --> 01:27:56,960
Speaker 1: have participated in protests around the world and in the US,

1667
01:27:57,800 --> 01:28:03,680
Speaker 1: and even praises Jewish Israelis who have protested against the

1668
01:28:04,600 --> 01:28:08,759
Speaker 1: slaughter of civilians. That I don't think any Hamas official

1669
01:28:08,800 --> 01:28:12,519
Speaker 1: has ever done that before, ever praised an Israeli citizen

1670
01:28:12,800 --> 01:28:15,519
Speaker 1: who's a Jewish Israeli citizen, like I think that, I

1671
01:28:15,600 --> 01:28:17,840
Speaker 1: think that's a they think that as a first. They

1672
01:28:17,920 --> 01:28:21,679
Speaker 1: also talk about what they would see as quote unquote

1673
01:28:21,720 --> 01:28:26,519
Speaker 1: national liberation. There they do not in this document they

1674
01:28:26,560 --> 01:28:29,479
Speaker 1: do not recognize Israel, say they will never recognize Israel,

1675
01:28:29,680 --> 01:28:33,439
Speaker 1: say that the only solution long term is complete liberation,

1676
01:28:34,840 --> 01:28:39,120
Speaker 1: meaning no Israel, no Israel. That is that's their political line.

1677
01:28:39,280 --> 01:28:40,880
Speaker 1: The very next line, and we can get into this.

1678
01:28:40,960 --> 01:28:44,080
Speaker 1: The very next line says, however, and you know they

1679
01:28:44,120 --> 01:28:47,920
Speaker 1: always say ignore everything that comes before the butt. So

1680
01:28:48,200 --> 01:28:54,000
Speaker 1: Hamas's butt is, but we are willing to accept a

1681
01:28:54,200 --> 01:28:58,559
Speaker 1: long term truce that is a basically a two state

1682
01:28:58,680 --> 01:29:02,560
Speaker 1: solution along nineteen six the seven lines, and what and

1683
01:29:03,160 --> 01:29:06,600
Speaker 1: the reason they call it a long term truce is

1684
01:29:06,680 --> 01:29:11,320
Speaker 1: that it allows them to maintain their pride of not

1685
01:29:11,520 --> 01:29:14,040
Speaker 1: having to say that they are willing to recognize Israel

1686
01:29:15,000 --> 01:29:18,720
Speaker 1: and accept a two state solution while still accepting it

1687
01:29:19,120 --> 01:29:22,599
Speaker 1: as an objective reality, because they would be saying, well,

1688
01:29:22,640 --> 01:29:26,760
Speaker 1: this is just a long term truce. Of course, that's

1689
01:29:26,840 --> 01:29:30,559
Speaker 1: all anything is in this world is a long term

1690
01:29:30,600 --> 01:29:32,800
Speaker 1: troops that's all. That's all you get. And then after

1691
01:29:32,920 --> 01:29:36,280
Speaker 1: this long term truce, they there would be negotiations that

1692
01:29:36,360 --> 01:29:40,280
Speaker 1: they could that you do then enter into that that

1693
01:29:40,800 --> 01:29:44,800
Speaker 1: yields an actual you know, so it's two state solution

1694
01:29:44,920 --> 01:29:47,280
Speaker 1: and actual recognition. But they're not going to not going

1695
01:29:47,360 --> 01:29:49,639
Speaker 1: to do that preemptively, and they think that Arafat doing

1696
01:29:49,720 --> 01:29:54,439
Speaker 1: that preemptively recognizing Israel without getting the recognition of a

1697
01:29:54,520 --> 01:29:59,839
Speaker 1: Palestinian state was a mistake that led to the currency

1698
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:04,920
Speaker 1: wa endless occupation. I can read some parts from this,

1699
01:30:05,000 --> 01:30:07,760
Speaker 1: but I'm curious if you have any any thoughts in

1700
01:30:07,840 --> 01:30:11,560
Speaker 1: general on this. The notion of even the notion of

1701
01:30:11,600 --> 01:30:16,000
Speaker 1: Hamas engaging with attorneys can't pay them because they'd be

1702
01:30:16,080 --> 01:30:21,960
Speaker 1: under sanctions if they got paid pro bono, and but

1703
01:30:22,120 --> 01:30:26,160
Speaker 1: engaging with the West in this way suggests kind of

1704
01:30:26,200 --> 01:30:28,040
Speaker 1: a shift in strategy.

1705
01:30:28,479 --> 01:30:31,719
Speaker 5: I mean, it seems clearly to suggest a shift in strategy,

1706
01:30:31,800 --> 01:30:37,559
Speaker 5: and one that perhaps could be attributed to the West,

1707
01:30:38,160 --> 01:30:43,280
Speaker 5: especially the United States, shifting perspective on Israel. It's not

1708
01:30:43,400 --> 01:30:46,040
Speaker 5: to say the West is embracing Hamas, although some of

1709
01:30:46,240 --> 01:30:52,160
Speaker 5: the some of the Israel backers would certainly say that's

1710
01:30:52,160 --> 01:30:56,080
Speaker 5: what's happening and gets equated anti Zimism gets equated conflated

1711
01:30:56,160 --> 01:31:01,360
Speaker 5: intentionally with support for Hermas, but because or increasingly skeptical

1712
01:31:02,560 --> 01:31:05,800
Speaker 5: of fully backing Israel, not just on the kind of

1713
01:31:06,080 --> 01:31:09,839
Speaker 5: far left, but we see in opinion pools that creeping

1714
01:31:10,160 --> 01:31:13,320
Speaker 5: more and more into the kind of mainstream public perspective,

1715
01:31:13,560 --> 01:31:16,960
Speaker 5: especially here in the United States. I actually I'm very

1716
01:31:17,000 --> 01:31:19,240
Speaker 5: careious for your perspective on this, right if that seems

1717
01:31:19,240 --> 01:31:26,160
Speaker 5: to be something that's that's juicing Hamasa's I guess approach

1718
01:31:26,479 --> 01:31:29,040
Speaker 5: to negotiating with the West, as they feel as though

1719
01:31:29,160 --> 01:31:34,280
Speaker 5: now they're in a position where Israel's narrative is slipped

1720
01:31:34,280 --> 01:31:37,400
Speaker 5: a bit, for better or worse in the West and

1721
01:31:37,960 --> 01:31:42,400
Speaker 5: they can now come in and operate like a state.

1722
01:31:43,120 --> 01:31:45,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, that is that kind of yeah, I think, and

1723
01:31:45,160 --> 01:31:48,320
Speaker 1: I think they have been heartened to see the amount

1724
01:31:48,400 --> 01:31:52,919
Speaker 1: of support from the global public from so many countries

1725
01:31:53,040 --> 01:31:55,839
Speaker 1: joining South Africa's I see JKS for instance.

1726
01:31:56,120 --> 01:31:59,880
Speaker 5: So support not for Hamas though, because what you just said,

1727
01:32:00,240 --> 01:32:03,040
Speaker 5: people would say, you're saying Hamas is heartened by the

1728
01:32:03,040 --> 01:32:03,479
Speaker 5: support for.

1729
01:32:03,520 --> 01:32:06,679
Speaker 1: Her, for the support for resistance against Israel.

1730
01:32:06,800 --> 01:32:06,960
Speaker 10: Yeah.

1731
01:32:07,040 --> 01:32:09,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they a lot of them equate that to

1732
01:32:09,640 --> 01:32:12,760
Speaker 1: some support for Hamas because as like Hamas argues.

1733
01:32:12,640 --> 01:32:14,840
Speaker 5: Hamas poins that was support for her masque, even though

1734
01:32:14,880 --> 01:32:17,200
Speaker 5: many of the people who are backing.

1735
01:32:17,360 --> 01:32:21,479
Speaker 1: A support mus Hey and Hamas makes Hamas actually addresses

1736
01:32:21,520 --> 01:32:24,560
Speaker 1: that in this legal filing or or at least in

1737
01:32:24,680 --> 01:32:27,320
Speaker 1: this in this side letter. What they say is, look,

1738
01:32:27,680 --> 01:32:29,719
Speaker 1: a lot of what they say is we understand people

1739
01:32:29,720 --> 01:32:32,599
Speaker 1: are against the genocide, people are against what Israel is doing,

1740
01:32:33,400 --> 01:32:36,479
Speaker 1: and we are the ones that are fighting against that,

1741
01:32:37,040 --> 01:32:39,920
Speaker 1: like literally fighting against it. So therefore you've got to

1742
01:32:39,920 --> 01:32:44,560
Speaker 1: give us some credit for doing that. But the anti there,

1743
01:32:44,640 --> 01:32:48,559
Speaker 1: the discussion of anti Semitism is truly fascinating. So let's

1744
01:32:48,640 --> 01:32:50,200
Speaker 1: let's roll through some of this and you can put

1745
01:32:50,240 --> 01:32:53,120
Speaker 1: that first element back up on the screen. For some ofime,

1746
01:32:53,280 --> 01:32:56,800
Speaker 1: they'd say they're right, or he writes, we reject any

1747
01:32:56,840 --> 01:32:59,439
Speaker 1: allegations that we are anti Semitic or that we target

1748
01:32:59,520 --> 01:33:02,040
Speaker 1: Jewish peace. And this is a fascinating line. He says,

1749
01:33:02,240 --> 01:33:05,720
Speaker 1: I appreciate that there is a level of controversy surrounding

1750
01:33:05,800 --> 01:33:08,920
Speaker 1: some of the wording of our founding Charter. The Founding

1751
01:33:09,000 --> 01:33:16,040
Speaker 1: Charter includes explicit antisemitists. Yes, so he explains then or argues,

1752
01:33:17,000 --> 01:33:20,800
Speaker 1: this was drafted without consultation with the senior leadership, who

1753
01:33:20,840 --> 01:33:23,200
Speaker 1: were either in prison or in exile at the time.

1754
01:33:24,040 --> 01:33:27,280
Speaker 1: Hamas has published a series of other documents since then,

1755
01:33:27,760 --> 01:33:30,800
Speaker 1: culminating in our Document of General Principles and Policies of

1756
01:33:30,840 --> 01:33:35,720
Speaker 1: twenty seventeen, all of which expressly distinguished between Jews and Zionists.

1757
01:33:36,320 --> 01:33:38,920
Speaker 1: I have incorporated parts of that policy within this witness

1758
01:33:38,920 --> 01:33:42,240
Speaker 1: statement as continuing to reflect the positions of the movement.

1759
01:33:42,479 --> 01:33:44,320
Speaker 1: So that is as close as you're going to get,

1760
01:33:44,439 --> 01:33:47,920
Speaker 1: I think, to an apology for the language that the

1761
01:33:48,000 --> 01:33:51,080
Speaker 1: anti Semitic language that was in the original charter documents.

1762
01:33:51,400 --> 01:33:53,840
Speaker 1: And then so then he goes on to say explicitly,

1763
01:33:54,520 --> 01:33:57,200
Speaker 1: our struggle is not against Jewish people because of their religion,

1764
01:33:57,280 --> 01:34:00,479
Speaker 1: but against the Zionists who occupy Palestine. It is the

1765
01:34:00,600 --> 01:34:05,160
Speaker 1: Zionists who constantly identify Judaism and the Jewish people and

1766
01:34:05,840 --> 01:34:09,600
Speaker 1: with their own colonial project and illegal entity. We acknowledge

1767
01:34:09,600 --> 01:34:12,479
Speaker 1: and appreciate the solidarity shown to our people and our

1768
01:34:12,560 --> 01:34:16,200
Speaker 1: struggle by many Jewish people around the world, including within

1769
01:34:16,360 --> 01:34:21,120
Speaker 1: quote Israel, whose stance against Zionism exposes the dangerous lies

1770
01:34:21,560 --> 01:34:25,439
Speaker 1: that conflates Judaism with Zionism. And that that's the line

1771
01:34:25,439 --> 01:34:27,960
Speaker 1: that I was saying. I was talking to Jeremy about

1772
01:34:27,960 --> 01:34:30,080
Speaker 1: this this morning, and he was saying, he thinks that

1773
01:34:30,200 --> 01:34:35,599
Speaker 1: that's kind of an unprecedented statement from a member of Hamas,

1774
01:34:35,600 --> 01:34:38,400
Speaker 1: a founding member of Hamas, even to say to say

1775
01:34:40,520 --> 01:34:44,200
Speaker 1: we acknowledge and appreciate the solidarity shown to our people

1776
01:34:46,439 --> 01:34:49,080
Speaker 1: by many Jewish people, including within Israel. I mean they

1777
01:34:49,080 --> 01:34:50,519
Speaker 1: put it is reel in quotes because that's what they do,

1778
01:34:50,560 --> 01:34:53,800
Speaker 1: because they don't recognize it officially, but that is that

1779
01:34:54,240 --> 01:34:58,760
Speaker 1: is that is a significant step. Then so they go on,

1780
01:34:58,920 --> 01:35:01,120
Speaker 1: we are particularly appo and this is the part that

1781
01:35:01,200 --> 01:35:05,559
Speaker 1: I said, sounds like they're watching this program. We are

1782
01:35:05,600 --> 01:35:09,439
Speaker 1: particularly appalled by the weaponization of antisemitism to attempt to

1783
01:35:09,640 --> 01:35:14,120
Speaker 1: silence those standing against apartheid, occupation, and genocide. The Zionist

1784
01:35:14,280 --> 01:35:17,479
Speaker 1: entity and its supporters have completely undermined the struggle against

1785
01:35:17,600 --> 01:35:21,840
Speaker 1: genuine anti Semitism by manipulating the term to protect the

1786
01:35:21,960 --> 01:35:25,559
Speaker 1: Zionist entity from criticism and censure. Over the past year,

1787
01:35:25,720 --> 01:35:30,120
Speaker 1: Zionists have accused numerous officials and institutions of being anti Semitic,

1788
01:35:30,200 --> 01:35:35,240
Speaker 1: including the UN Special Rappertoire, the UN General Secretary UNRA,

1789
01:35:35,600 --> 01:35:39,800
Speaker 1: the ICJ, the ICC, the Government of South Africa, the

1790
01:35:40,920 --> 01:35:45,679
Speaker 1: Irish Dousach Simon Harris, and the President of Ireland Michael Higgins.

1791
01:35:45,760 --> 01:35:49,719
Speaker 1: In the process, Zionists have debased and degraded the important

1792
01:35:49,760 --> 01:35:54,559
Speaker 1: definition of antisemitism until it means almost nothing. Zionists, many

1793
01:35:54,640 --> 01:35:58,639
Speaker 1: of them not Jewish, have deliberately fashioned an utterly warped

1794
01:35:58,720 --> 01:36:01,960
Speaker 1: definition of anti Semitism, and they consciously wield it to

1795
01:36:02,040 --> 01:36:06,040
Speaker 1: shield Zionism and Israel from entirely legitimate criticism at a

1796
01:36:06,160 --> 01:36:09,400
Speaker 1: time when actual anti Semitism is on the rise. This

1797
01:36:09,560 --> 01:36:14,360
Speaker 1: shameless crying wolf is a staggeringly irresponsible and dangerous policy

1798
01:36:14,439 --> 01:36:17,800
Speaker 1: to pursue. It diminishes our ability to combat anti Semitism

1799
01:36:18,200 --> 01:36:24,519
Speaker 1: when and where it does actually arise. Where's where's the lie?

1800
01:36:26,280 --> 01:36:30,000
Speaker 5: I mean, there's plenty of genuine anti Semitism.

1801
01:36:31,000 --> 01:36:35,040
Speaker 1: That's and that is Hamas's point, which is fascinating. Hamas

1802
01:36:35,880 --> 01:36:40,240
Speaker 1: is calling out the rise, No, no, no, Hamas is

1803
01:36:40,320 --> 01:36:43,400
Speaker 1: saying anti Semitism is on the rise, Genuine anti Semitism

1804
01:36:43,479 --> 01:36:46,760
Speaker 1: is on the rise, and this conflation of Zionism and

1805
01:36:46,800 --> 01:36:51,000
Speaker 1: anti anti Semitism is fueling it, which is true.

1806
01:36:51,560 --> 01:36:53,240
Speaker 5: And their argument is going to be that they are

1807
01:36:53,360 --> 01:36:54,679
Speaker 5: now the bulwark.

1808
01:36:54,840 --> 01:36:59,960
Speaker 1: There they are, they are arguing more than the anti Semitism.

1809
01:37:00,240 --> 01:37:05,200
Speaker 5: Yes, I mean that's I feel like the you know,

1810
01:37:05,240 --> 01:37:08,920
Speaker 5: the galaxy brain meme where it's like the game of

1811
01:37:09,000 --> 01:37:09,679
Speaker 5: forty chess.

1812
01:37:11,080 --> 01:37:17,920
Speaker 1: The but if you step back, like why is like

1813
01:37:18,439 --> 01:37:24,720
Speaker 1: Hamas's argument is our problem is with the Zionists.

1814
01:37:25,600 --> 01:37:26,599
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it's interesting.

1815
01:37:26,800 --> 01:37:30,840
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm just like skeptical that it's actually representative of Hamas'

1816
01:37:31,040 --> 01:37:35,080
Speaker 5: leadership's views. It sounds like tactically it's I think tactically

1817
01:37:35,120 --> 01:37:38,200
Speaker 5: it's very clever. I'm just genuinely skeptical that you know

1818
01:37:38,240 --> 01:37:41,160
Speaker 5: that charter was changed what in twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen.

1819
01:37:42,200 --> 01:37:45,439
Speaker 1: Except well twenty seventeen is when it was codified, Like

1820
01:37:45,520 --> 01:37:47,840
Speaker 1: he was saying, there were many steps taken in that

1821
01:37:47,920 --> 01:37:50,920
Speaker 1: direction right to move away from that anti Semitic language

1822
01:37:50,960 --> 01:37:53,280
Speaker 1: that was that was inserted in the beginning.

1823
01:37:53,680 --> 01:37:58,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean we could talk about there is a

1824
01:37:59,640 --> 01:38:03,479
Speaker 5: non significant portion of people who are in the godless

1825
01:38:03,479 --> 01:38:06,639
Speaker 5: trip who aren't even in Hamas, who have I would say,

1826
01:38:06,720 --> 01:38:10,960
Speaker 5: like deep bigotry, and it doesn't I'm not saying it

1827
01:38:11,000 --> 01:38:13,280
Speaker 5: doesn't exist on the other side, but have deep bigotry

1828
01:38:13,520 --> 01:38:17,960
Speaker 5: towards Jews. And so I suppose I think it's it's

1829
01:38:18,280 --> 01:38:23,360
Speaker 5: both substantively important and interesting that they're making this tactical

1830
01:38:24,560 --> 01:38:27,559
Speaker 5: I think you're right, like tactical shift. I also think

1831
01:38:28,600 --> 01:38:34,080
Speaker 5: I'm skeptical of how genuinely that represents their position.

1832
01:38:36,320 --> 01:38:39,840
Speaker 1: And so they spell they spell this, They go further

1833
01:38:39,880 --> 01:38:42,760
Speaker 1: into the h's really interesting of the history here and

1834
01:38:43,080 --> 01:38:49,880
Speaker 1: make the point, which historically is an accurate point that

1835
01:38:51,240 --> 01:38:54,160
Speaker 1: there was there has been, that there has been far

1836
01:38:54,280 --> 01:38:58,080
Speaker 1: far more anti Semitism in Europe, and if you include

1837
01:38:58,120 --> 01:39:02,599
Speaker 1: Russia and Europe than in the Middle East over the years.

1838
01:39:03,960 --> 01:39:08,200
Speaker 1: That's just been the case. So here they write the

1839
01:39:08,280 --> 01:39:11,600
Speaker 1: Palestinian people have always stood against oppression and justice and

1840
01:39:11,680 --> 01:39:14,680
Speaker 1: the committing of massacres against civilians, regardless of who commit them,

1841
01:39:15,040 --> 01:39:17,400
Speaker 1: based on our religious and moral values. We clearly stated

1842
01:39:17,439 --> 01:39:20,680
Speaker 1: our rejection to what the Jews were exposed to by

1843
01:39:20,760 --> 01:39:23,200
Speaker 1: the Nazi Germany. Hamas is of the view that the

1844
01:39:23,320 --> 01:39:26,760
Speaker 1: quote Jewish problem, anti Semitism, and the persecution of the

1845
01:39:26,840 --> 01:39:30,840
Speaker 1: Jews are phenomena fundamentally linked to European history, and not

1846
01:39:31,000 --> 01:39:33,360
Speaker 1: to the history of the Arabs and the Muslims or

1847
01:39:33,400 --> 01:39:36,200
Speaker 1: to their heritage. The Arab and Islamic environment was an

1848
01:39:36,200 --> 01:39:41,000
Speaker 1: example of coexistence, cultural interaction, and religious freedoms. The current

1849
01:39:41,120 --> 01:39:44,000
Speaker 1: conflict is caused by the Zionist aggressive behavior and its

1850
01:39:44,040 --> 01:39:48,160
Speaker 1: alliance with the Western colonial powers. Therefore, we reject the

1851
01:39:48,280 --> 01:39:51,800
Speaker 1: exploitation of the Jewish suffering in Europe to justify the

1852
01:39:51,840 --> 01:39:55,559
Speaker 1: oppression against our people in Palestine. The Zionist movement, which

1853
01:39:55,640 --> 01:39:59,120
Speaker 1: was able with the help of Western powers to occupy Palestine,

1854
01:39:59,560 --> 01:40:02,200
Speaker 1: is the most dangerous form of settler colonialism. That form

1855
01:40:02,200 --> 01:40:04,320
Speaker 1: has already been defeated and eradicated from much of the

1856
01:40:04,360 --> 01:40:09,200
Speaker 1: world and must similarly be defeated and eradicated from Palestine. So,

1857
01:40:10,479 --> 01:40:15,080
Speaker 1: and that's an argument. You hear a lot that obviously

1858
01:40:15,320 --> 01:40:18,920
Speaker 1: Nazi Germany was a European that this was that was

1859
01:40:19,000 --> 01:40:22,400
Speaker 1: Europe And you'll often hear people, So what does what

1860
01:40:22,479 --> 01:40:25,040
Speaker 1: did Palestine have do with that? Why did why did

1861
01:40:25,120 --> 01:40:31,719
Speaker 1: Palestine pay for the genuine sins of Europe which flowed

1862
01:40:31,760 --> 01:40:34,479
Speaker 1: out of their their history of anti Semitism? M hm

1863
01:40:35,080 --> 01:40:39,360
Speaker 1: like what Yeah, the Ottoman Empire, you know, Ottoman Empire

1864
01:40:39,400 --> 01:40:44,360
Speaker 1: compared to Europe, far far better place for I mean, indeed,

1865
01:40:44,439 --> 01:40:49,320
Speaker 1: Jewish people, Jews were fleeing anti semitism in Europe to yeah,

1866
01:40:49,360 --> 01:40:51,679
Speaker 1: and to the Automan Empire and being recruited to go there. Yeah.

1867
01:40:52,400 --> 01:40:55,519
Speaker 5: No, I mean there's gonna be interesting. So there's this.

1868
01:40:55,800 --> 01:40:57,720
Speaker 5: This is the point I was making. This was back

1869
01:40:57,760 --> 01:41:00,720
Speaker 5: in twenty nineteen, a Hamas officially.

1870
01:41:00,840 --> 01:41:04,280
Speaker 1: When did's Spain really kick off its real anti Semitic

1871
01:41:04,320 --> 01:41:06,320
Speaker 1: purge when the Muslims left?

1872
01:41:09,479 --> 01:41:13,439
Speaker 5: This Hamas official back in twenty nineteen, Fatihamad had said,

1873
01:41:14,880 --> 01:41:17,240
Speaker 5: all of you, seven million Palestinians abroad, enough of the

1874
01:41:17,280 --> 01:41:20,040
Speaker 5: warming up. You have Jews everywhere, and we must attack

1875
01:41:20,200 --> 01:41:24,240
Speaker 5: every Jew on theory. This is a twenty nineteen quote

1876
01:41:24,280 --> 01:41:27,800
Speaker 5: from a Hamas official, Fatihamad, who said, all of you,

1877
01:41:27,920 --> 01:41:29,960
Speaker 5: seven million Palastins broad enough of the warming up. You

1878
01:41:29,960 --> 01:41:31,720
Speaker 5: have Jews everywhere. We must attack every Jew in the

1879
01:41:31,760 --> 01:41:34,000
Speaker 5: globe by way of slaughtering, killing, if God permits enough

1880
01:41:34,040 --> 01:41:36,120
Speaker 5: of the warming up. Well back in twenty nineteen, so

1881
01:41:36,200 --> 01:41:40,400
Speaker 5: before October seventh, obviously he walked that back. The point

1882
01:41:40,439 --> 01:41:44,160
Speaker 5: that you're making, he was clearly under pressure from Hamas's

1883
01:41:44,200 --> 01:41:47,320
Speaker 5: pull up the leadership. You right, and he's a policy

1884
01:41:47,880 --> 01:41:51,040
Speaker 5: and he said in a statement that was posted on

1885
01:41:51,400 --> 01:41:54,599
Speaker 5: Hamas's website, Hamas is consistent adopted policy of limiting its

1886
01:41:54,640 --> 01:41:57,680
Speaker 5: resistance the Zionist occupation that U SERPs Palestine's land and

1887
01:41:57,760 --> 01:42:02,240
Speaker 5: defies defiles its holy sites. That he said, that's what

1888
01:42:02,320 --> 01:42:05,760
Speaker 5: he supports now, limiting its resistance to the Zionist occupation

1889
01:42:05,960 --> 01:42:09,120
Speaker 5: that he serves Palestine's land. And this is both the

1890
01:42:09,200 --> 01:42:11,280
Speaker 5: point you're making and I think the point that I'm making,

1891
01:42:11,400 --> 01:42:15,160
Speaker 5: which is it's not new for Hamas to start trending

1892
01:42:15,200 --> 01:42:18,120
Speaker 5: in this direction, but this represents a significant tactical shift.

1893
01:42:18,439 --> 01:42:20,280
Speaker 5: On the other hand, my point is just that I

1894
01:42:20,360 --> 01:42:22,360
Speaker 5: don't think you go from point A to point B

1895
01:42:22,720 --> 01:42:26,880
Speaker 5: if you were Fazi Hamad because you've suddenly had a

1896
01:42:26,960 --> 01:42:29,320
Speaker 5: change of heart and don't think Palestinians everywhere should kill

1897
01:42:29,400 --> 01:42:32,160
Speaker 5: Jews everywhere. I think you do that because you're under

1898
01:42:32,200 --> 01:42:34,600
Speaker 5: political pressure, and so all I'm saying is that I

1899
01:42:34,880 --> 01:42:40,760
Speaker 5: am skeptical that this represents some type of genuine, some

1900
01:42:40,880 --> 01:42:46,360
Speaker 5: type of genuine dissolution of bigotry among the ranks across

1901
01:42:46,400 --> 01:42:46,679
Speaker 5: the board.

1902
01:42:46,920 --> 01:42:49,200
Speaker 1: Let's say there is anti Semitism and hatred in the

1903
01:42:49,240 --> 01:42:52,800
Speaker 1: hearts of some members of a MOSSU, which I don't

1904
01:42:52,800 --> 01:42:57,559
Speaker 1: doubt for a second. The question is whether that as

1905
01:42:57,600 --> 01:43:03,000
Speaker 1: a policy is suppressed or whether it is encouraged.

1906
01:43:03,200 --> 01:43:05,800
Speaker 5: Right, No, I agree, Yeah, I think that's a good question.

1907
01:43:05,920 --> 01:43:08,400
Speaker 1: In the US, for instance, there's there are all kinds

1908
01:43:08,439 --> 01:43:13,120
Speaker 1: of ugly sentiments that some American people have. Whether whether

1909
01:43:13,200 --> 01:43:17,080
Speaker 1: the government and a political movement is celebrating those and

1910
01:43:17,760 --> 01:43:22,080
Speaker 1: exact pouring gasoline on them, versus whether they're telling you

1911
01:43:22,280 --> 01:43:27,639
Speaker 1: and there, through education and through messaging and and through

1912
01:43:27,720 --> 01:43:31,280
Speaker 1: modeling good behavior, are saying no, that's not actually how

1913
01:43:31,400 --> 01:43:35,559
Speaker 1: we as Americans are going to treat immigrants or you.

1914
01:43:35,560 --> 01:43:37,320
Speaker 5: Know whoever cultural norms.

1915
01:43:37,520 --> 01:43:41,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, just let's do the British part for a second.

1916
01:43:41,840 --> 01:43:46,320
Speaker 1: Marzook writes the British government's decision to proscribe Hamas as

1917
01:43:46,320 --> 01:43:49,200
Speaker 1: an unjust one that is symptomatic of its unwavering support

1918
01:43:49,280 --> 01:43:52,800
Speaker 1: for Zionism, apartheid, occupation at the cleansing and Palestine for

1919
01:43:52,840 --> 01:43:55,800
Speaker 1: over a century. Hamas does not and never has posed

1920
01:43:55,840 --> 01:43:58,720
Speaker 1: a threat to Britain, despite the latter's ongoing complicity in

1921
01:43:58,800 --> 01:44:01,280
Speaker 1: the genocide of our people. Is perhaps out of colonial

1922
01:44:01,360 --> 01:44:04,919
Speaker 1: guilt that Britain fears that one day those it oppresses

1923
01:44:05,040 --> 01:44:08,080
Speaker 1: will strike back against the sponsors of the Zionist entity.

1924
01:44:08,479 --> 01:44:13,040
Speaker 1: Britain should have no such fear unquote like, look, guys,

1925
01:44:13,080 --> 01:44:15,400
Speaker 1: we're like our beef and they're like, look, our beef

1926
01:44:15,479 --> 01:44:19,760
Speaker 1: is not with you think it's so.

1927
01:44:20,040 --> 01:44:23,639
Speaker 5: I mean, I think from like a realist perspective, there's

1928
01:44:23,680 --> 01:44:27,720
Speaker 5: a there's an argument for dealing with Hamas as a

1929
01:44:27,880 --> 01:44:32,559
Speaker 5: state entity that makes negotiating. We saw this with actually

1930
01:44:32,600 --> 01:44:35,880
Speaker 5: Steve Whitkoff and Whitcoff got a ton of flack for

1931
01:44:36,560 --> 01:44:41,880
Speaker 5: actually stepping in when the Biden administration's negotiations with Hamas

1932
01:44:42,160 --> 01:44:44,760
Speaker 5: had stalled for a long time, so that you can't

1933
01:44:44,800 --> 01:44:47,120
Speaker 5: talk to Hamas, you can't deal with mass you can't

1934
01:44:47,200 --> 01:44:53,280
Speaker 5: negotiate with Hamas, and Whitcough came in actually yielded result

1935
01:44:53,560 --> 01:44:57,720
Speaker 5: to have direct negotiations. I mean, it was going through

1936
01:44:57,800 --> 01:45:01,040
Speaker 5: cutter obviously, but to have more direct negotiations with Hamas.

1937
01:45:01,840 --> 01:45:06,040
Speaker 5: Does that put the world on a better track to

1938
01:45:06,640 --> 01:45:10,840
Speaker 5: some lasting peace. I think, as you know, uncomfortable as

1939
01:45:10,840 --> 01:45:14,880
Speaker 5: it is for the West, it probably does.

1940
01:45:15,479 --> 01:45:19,360
Speaker 1: And while we're talking about uncomfortable things, let's let's do

1941
01:45:19,560 --> 01:45:23,280
Speaker 1: let's do another one. Here. They have a section on prisoners.

1942
01:45:25,320 --> 01:45:28,080
Speaker 1: So I want people to hear this, whether they agree

1943
01:45:28,080 --> 01:45:31,439
Speaker 1: with it or not. It is a tragic reality that

1944
01:45:31,560 --> 01:45:34,759
Speaker 1: almost every Palestinian household has a family member being detained

1945
01:45:34,840 --> 01:45:36,880
Speaker 1: in an Israeli prison. Well, they forgot to put the

1946
01:45:36,960 --> 01:45:40,599
Speaker 1: quotes around Israeli there. I guess they just recognized Israel.

1947
01:45:41,720 --> 01:45:46,200
Speaker 1: Since nineteen sixty seven, over eight hundred thousand Palestinians, including children,

1948
01:45:46,240 --> 01:45:49,600
Speaker 1: have been incarcerated by the Zionist military. The thousands of

1949
01:45:49,640 --> 01:45:53,600
Speaker 1: Palestinian political prisoners or prisoners or hostages currently languishing in

1950
01:45:53,720 --> 01:45:58,800
Speaker 1: Zionist prisons, where they are routine routinely tortured, raped, and mistreated,

1951
01:45:58,920 --> 01:46:01,880
Speaker 1: include hundreds of women and children, many of whom are

1952
01:46:01,960 --> 01:46:06,000
Speaker 1: subject to administrative detention, which can be renewed indefinitely. That

1953
01:46:06,120 --> 01:46:09,519
Speaker 1: is true. The release of the Palestinian prisoners is a

1954
01:46:09,640 --> 01:46:13,439
Speaker 1: consensus position. This is where it gets uncomfortable for Western ears.

1955
01:46:14,880 --> 01:46:17,479
Speaker 1: The release of the Palestinian prisoners is a consensus position

1956
01:46:17,600 --> 01:46:20,959
Speaker 1: among Palestinians, with strong support from all sectors of society.

1957
01:46:21,560 --> 01:46:25,200
Speaker 1: Where appeals to the international community to release our prisoners

1958
01:46:25,240 --> 01:46:28,960
Speaker 1: have fallen on deaf ears, our experience has demonstrated that

1959
01:46:29,040 --> 01:46:32,760
Speaker 1: the most effective method of liberating our prisoners is through

1960
01:46:32,840 --> 01:46:37,640
Speaker 1: the prisoner exchange process. So in case that needs translation

1961
01:46:38,200 --> 01:46:41,439
Speaker 1: for anybody. They are explaining to the public and to

1962
01:46:41,479 --> 01:46:45,960
Speaker 1: the British government here why they take hostages. That there

1963
01:46:46,000 --> 01:46:50,920
Speaker 1: are thousands of Palestinian prisoners riding away an administrative detention facing,

1964
01:46:50,960 --> 01:46:54,760
Speaker 1: according to human rights groups, torture, sexual assault in a

1965
01:46:54,800 --> 01:47:00,200
Speaker 1: systematic way. The world public has been unable to get

1966
01:47:00,240 --> 01:47:02,960
Speaker 1: them out, so they're going to take them what they have.

1967
01:47:03,080 --> 01:47:04,920
Speaker 1: What they're saying, what they have found is the most

1968
01:47:04,920 --> 01:47:07,960
Speaker 1: successful way to get them out is to take hostages

1969
01:47:08,000 --> 01:47:12,639
Speaker 1: and then exchange the hostages. And that has that's true,

1970
01:47:13,280 --> 01:47:15,720
Speaker 1: like that you know that that has been and that

1971
01:47:15,880 --> 01:47:18,040
Speaker 1: was the that was the real goal of October seventh,

1972
01:47:18,120 --> 01:47:20,080
Speaker 1: was to take a lot of hostages, right and then

1973
01:47:20,120 --> 01:47:23,479
Speaker 1: exchange them for the thousands of prisoners. They're saying the

1974
01:47:23,600 --> 01:47:27,719
Speaker 1: root cause of their hostage taking is your hostage taking?

1975
01:47:27,880 --> 01:47:30,800
Speaker 1: Like that's the that's the argument that they're that they're

1976
01:47:30,840 --> 01:47:34,160
Speaker 1: making here. Like I said, that's not going to be

1977
01:47:34,240 --> 01:47:37,400
Speaker 1: a comfortable one for Western years. No, no, no, no,

1978
01:47:38,160 --> 01:47:41,200
Speaker 1: But it's that's what's what people mean when they say

1979
01:47:41,640 --> 01:47:43,200
Speaker 1: history didn't start on October seventh.

1980
01:47:44,240 --> 01:47:47,720
Speaker 5: Well, it's also the problem with just putting everybody into

1981
01:47:47,800 --> 01:47:51,760
Speaker 5: this like a box that can't be opened or dealt with,

1982
01:47:52,240 --> 01:47:56,160
Speaker 5: is you end up flattening people and not understanding they're

1983
01:47:56,880 --> 01:48:00,800
Speaker 5: like how they see their intentions and intentions and which

1984
01:48:00,920 --> 01:48:04,360
Speaker 5: if you want to quote defeat Hamas or crush Hamas,

1985
01:48:04,880 --> 01:48:08,200
Speaker 5: you have to actually understand Hamas. You can't just dismiss

1986
01:48:08,840 --> 01:48:12,519
Speaker 5: how they see their intentions and motivations. So have to

1987
01:48:12,560 --> 01:48:14,360
Speaker 5: say those intentions of motivations are right. It is to

1988
01:48:14,439 --> 01:48:18,440
Speaker 5: say it's actually useful to understand their intentions and motivations.

1989
01:48:18,720 --> 01:48:24,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, a couple other couple other pieces they try to

1990
01:48:24,640 --> 01:48:26,840
Speaker 1: take credit for the Great Marsh Return. This was the

1991
01:48:27,000 --> 01:48:32,280
Speaker 1: twenty eighteen non violent Civil Society led demonstrations that every

1992
01:48:32,360 --> 01:48:35,280
Speaker 1: Friday would kind of march to the fence and Picnick

1993
01:48:35,320 --> 01:48:37,640
Speaker 1: and it was kind of celebratory, and it was the

1994
01:48:37,760 --> 01:48:42,040
Speaker 1: kind of nonviolent resistance that defenders of Israel have always said,

1995
01:48:42,120 --> 01:48:43,760
Speaker 1: this is what the Palestinians should do, This is what

1996
01:48:43,840 --> 01:48:46,599
Speaker 1: we would respect. This is like Gandhi, this is like Mlka.

1997
01:48:46,800 --> 01:48:50,160
Speaker 1: Do that and we'll give you your liberation. Instead they

1998
01:48:50,160 --> 01:48:52,960
Speaker 1: gave them bullets in their knees and create an entire

1999
01:48:53,040 --> 01:48:58,040
Speaker 1: generation of crippled people in Palestine. Hamas initially kind of

2000
01:48:58,280 --> 01:49:01,519
Speaker 1: resisted the Great March of Return, but because it was

2001
01:49:01,560 --> 01:49:04,400
Speaker 1: so popular in Gaza that eventually endorsed it the way

2002
01:49:04,439 --> 01:49:06,400
Speaker 1: they covered here. As they say, Hamas has a history

2003
01:49:06,439 --> 01:49:10,320
Speaker 1: of both armed and unarmed resistance. The latter was manifested

2004
01:49:10,360 --> 01:49:13,479
Speaker 1: in its support and facility and facilitation of initiatives like

2005
01:49:13,520 --> 01:49:18,760
Speaker 1: the Great March of Return and Hamas's involvement in parliamentary elections. Unfortunately,

2006
01:49:18,840 --> 01:49:22,040
Speaker 1: such initiatives were only met with further military assaults by

2007
01:49:22,080 --> 01:49:26,320
Speaker 1: the Zionist entity and Gencile sanctions imposed by the Western world.

2008
01:49:27,479 --> 01:49:29,720
Speaker 1: Let's I think we can finish with Let's touch on

2009
01:49:29,800 --> 01:49:35,160
Speaker 1: their their writing of October seventh, because this is also

2010
01:49:35,720 --> 01:49:40,280
Speaker 1: at the center of obviously everything. This is why, eighteen

2011
01:49:40,320 --> 01:49:45,479
Speaker 1: months later is still being flattened. So he writes on

2012
01:49:45,560 --> 01:49:50,040
Speaker 1: the morning of October seventh, Cassam Brigades executed a military

2013
01:49:50,120 --> 01:49:53,560
Speaker 1: maneuver targeting the Gaza division of Israel's Southern Commands, so

2014
01:49:53,720 --> 01:49:57,519
Speaker 1: very clearly situating it in as a as a military effort,

2015
01:49:58,040 --> 01:50:02,439
Speaker 1: not at civilians. So that's the point he's trying to make.

2016
01:50:02,520 --> 01:50:05,280
Speaker 1: There much has been said and written about the operation,

2017
01:50:05,360 --> 01:50:07,759
Speaker 1: but there has been little coverage in the English speaking

2018
01:50:07,800 --> 01:50:11,560
Speaker 1: world about the intended nature of the operation, as articulated

2019
01:50:11,640 --> 01:50:13,920
Speaker 1: by the movement itself in its various written statements and

2020
01:50:13,960 --> 01:50:16,880
Speaker 1: interviews over the past seventeen months. I've prepared a separate

2021
01:50:16,920 --> 01:50:21,200
Speaker 1: witness statement focusing on the operation. Suffice to say here

2022
01:50:21,400 --> 01:50:24,599
Speaker 1: that the instructions given to our elite forces, our Nukba,

2023
01:50:25,080 --> 01:50:28,080
Speaker 1: were to kill and capture Zionist soldiers and not to

2024
01:50:28,240 --> 01:50:31,680
Speaker 1: target women, children, and the elderly. To the extent that

2025
01:50:31,800 --> 01:50:35,320
Speaker 1: any individual crimes were allegedly committed by our soldiers, we

2026
01:50:35,400 --> 01:50:39,120
Speaker 1: have internal mechanisms for investigating and disciplining them. Unlike the

2027
01:50:39,200 --> 01:50:42,320
Speaker 1: Zionist entity, we take justice and accountability very seriously, and

2028
01:50:42,400 --> 01:50:45,439
Speaker 1: to that extent, we remain as always prepared to cooperate

2029
01:50:45,560 --> 01:50:49,080
Speaker 1: with any international investigations and inquiries into the operation, even

2030
01:50:49,080 --> 01:50:53,919
Speaker 1: if Israel refuses to do so. As we know, hundreds

2031
01:50:53,960 --> 01:51:03,639
Speaker 1: of civilians were killed, particularly those attending UH their festivals,

2032
01:51:03,880 --> 01:51:07,200
Speaker 1: as well as people who were in the in theki

2033
01:51:07,400 --> 01:51:10,519
Speaker 1: in the kibbut seem uh this so this is there,

2034
01:51:10,640 --> 01:51:15,560
Speaker 1: This is their effort to say that that was not

2035
01:51:15,680 --> 01:51:17,800
Speaker 1: their policy, that they regret it, and that they're open

2036
01:51:17,840 --> 01:51:23,200
Speaker 1: to investigations. I don't know what investigations they have now.

2037
01:51:23,240 --> 01:51:25,120
Speaker 1: Their claim they're sort of claiming here that they would

2038
01:51:25,120 --> 01:51:27,800
Speaker 1: have carried out some internal investigations and found people who

2039
01:51:30,320 --> 01:51:33,680
Speaker 1: committed these war crimes and brought them to justice. I

2040
01:51:33,800 --> 01:51:36,880
Speaker 1: haven't seen any evidence that that has happened. Doesn't mean

2041
01:51:36,920 --> 01:51:38,960
Speaker 1: it has, hasn't, has or hasn't, but I haven't seen

2042
01:51:38,960 --> 01:51:43,439
Speaker 1: any evidence. A lot of those soldiers would have been killed,

2043
01:51:43,840 --> 01:51:47,000
Speaker 1: like never actually made it back to Gaza to face

2044
01:51:47,040 --> 01:51:52,800
Speaker 1: that alleged inquiry. But anyway, how do you, how do you?

2045
01:51:52,960 --> 01:51:57,240
Speaker 1: How do you? How do you read that writing of

2046
01:51:57,400 --> 01:51:58,240
Speaker 1: October seventh?

2047
01:51:59,800 --> 01:52:06,120
Speaker 5: I mean, I don't find it surprising, it's a it's all,

2048
01:52:06,600 --> 01:52:11,000
Speaker 5: this is the the report here overall is just a

2049
01:52:11,560 --> 01:52:16,160
Speaker 5: I think indicative of something changing, and that's why it's

2050
01:52:16,200 --> 01:52:18,800
Speaker 5: not entirely surprising. But it does seem new.

2051
01:52:19,120 --> 01:52:23,760
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's it's it's it's it's it's something new. Yeah,

2052
01:52:23,760 --> 01:52:28,360
Speaker 1: it's it's trying to meet it. It's trying to acknowledge it.

2053
01:52:28,760 --> 01:52:31,080
Speaker 1: Actually it is what it is. And they use the

2054
01:52:31,120 --> 01:52:33,360
Speaker 1: word alleged, but what they're doing is acknowledging that war

2055
01:52:33,439 --> 01:52:37,280
Speaker 1: crimes were committed, Yeah, and that there should be an

2056
01:52:37,360 --> 01:52:43,560
Speaker 1: investigation into those, into those war crimes. The the the

2057
01:52:44,920 --> 01:52:49,439
Speaker 1: the fact that the rave was happening there has changed

2058
01:52:49,520 --> 01:52:53,120
Speaker 1: history in such a profound way. And we've been working

2059
01:52:53,160 --> 01:52:56,240
Speaker 1: on investigation and we'll have out soon a drop sight

2060
01:52:56,400 --> 01:53:00,639
Speaker 1: I hope about why that rave was given an extra night,

2061
01:53:00,960 --> 01:53:02,960
Speaker 1: Like do you know the story here, Like it was

2062
01:53:03,000 --> 01:53:06,439
Speaker 1: not supposed to even be there on Saturday, and by

2063
01:53:07,040 --> 01:53:11,360
Speaker 1: Friday there were all sorts of intel warnings that something

2064
01:53:11,520 --> 01:53:15,800
Speaker 1: was happening, and they applied for an extra night and

2065
01:53:17,240 --> 01:53:19,280
Speaker 1: they're like a mile from the fence and were granted it.

2066
01:53:19,800 --> 01:53:21,360
Speaker 1: What were they doing there in the first place when

2067
01:53:21,400 --> 01:53:24,599
Speaker 1: there was there's like so much area in the desert

2068
01:53:24,680 --> 01:53:28,040
Speaker 1: where they could be Like what if they had not

2069
01:53:28,160 --> 01:53:31,120
Speaker 1: been there, the number of civilian casualties would have been

2070
01:53:31,680 --> 01:53:34,599
Speaker 1: met many hundreds less and the number of passages many

2071
01:53:35,040 --> 01:53:41,599
Speaker 1: significantly less. That does not forgive or excuse the decision

2072
01:53:41,680 --> 01:53:46,920
Speaker 1: by the Bilitins there to teraris there to kill innocent

2073
01:53:47,000 --> 01:53:50,360
Speaker 1: people or just their celiberty. Doesn't forgive that. For a second,

2074
01:53:52,600 --> 01:53:55,080
Speaker 1: last last piece, I'll just so I can because I

2075
01:53:55,560 --> 01:53:57,800
Speaker 1: went over this, but I'll just read it. This is

2076
01:53:58,000 --> 01:54:02,760
Speaker 1: This is their proposed sixty seven solution. Hamas believes that

2077
01:54:02,840 --> 01:54:05,320
Speaker 1: no part of the land of Palestine shall be compromised

2078
01:54:05,400 --> 01:54:08,759
Speaker 1: or conceded, irrespective of the causes, the circumstances, and the pressures,

2079
01:54:08,800 --> 01:54:11,679
Speaker 1: and no matter how long the occupation lasts. Hamas rejects

2080
01:54:11,720 --> 01:54:14,400
Speaker 1: any alternative to the full and complete liberation of Palestine

2081
01:54:14,640 --> 01:54:18,840
Speaker 1: from the river to the sea. So there is there's

2082
01:54:18,880 --> 01:54:22,760
Speaker 1: the peace that devendors of visuals say. See, I told

2083
01:54:22,800 --> 01:54:25,920
Speaker 1: you they all they want is the eradication of Israel,

2084
01:54:26,360 --> 01:54:33,920
Speaker 1: complete total genocide of Israel. However, without compromising its rejection

2085
01:54:34,040 --> 01:54:37,440
Speaker 1: of the Zionist entity, and without relinquishing any Palestinian rites.

2086
01:54:38,200 --> 01:54:40,560
Speaker 1: And this is where their compromise comes when they say

2087
01:54:40,560 --> 01:54:44,600
Speaker 1: they're not compromising. Hamas considers the establishment of a fully

2088
01:54:44,680 --> 01:54:48,280
Speaker 1: sovereign and independent Palestinian state with Jerusalem as its capital,

2089
01:54:48,840 --> 01:54:51,200
Speaker 1: along the cease fire line of the fourth of June

2090
01:54:51,400 --> 01:54:54,240
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty seven, with the return of the refugees and

2091
01:54:54,320 --> 01:54:56,480
Speaker 1: the displaced to their homes from which they were expelled

2092
01:54:56,720 --> 01:55:00,760
Speaker 1: to be a formula of national consensus. Hamas on numerous

2093
01:55:00,760 --> 01:55:05,520
Speaker 1: occasions for over two decades, proposed to hudnah or long

2094
01:55:05,640 --> 01:55:08,760
Speaker 1: term truce on this basis. It's goodwill has been abused

2095
01:55:08,760 --> 01:55:12,120
Speaker 1: by Desionists who have assassinated members of its leadership to

2096
01:55:12,240 --> 01:55:14,920
Speaker 1: undermine such efforts. So that's a reference to there have

2097
01:55:15,000 --> 01:55:19,880
Speaker 1: been internal there are internal fight schisms within Hamas over

2098
01:55:20,000 --> 01:55:23,400
Speaker 1: this question. There are people who support this basically what

2099
01:55:23,560 --> 01:55:27,760
Speaker 1: is a two state endgame within Hamas, and then there

2100
01:55:27,760 --> 01:55:31,640
Speaker 1: are those who do not. And Israel has systematically assassinated

2101
01:55:32,520 --> 01:55:34,240
Speaker 1: all of the ones who are in the moderate camp

2102
01:55:35,600 --> 01:55:39,600
Speaker 1: in order to elevate the extremist camp and then to

2103
01:55:39,720 --> 01:55:41,640
Speaker 1: point to the extremists as the reason that you need

2104
01:55:41,680 --> 01:55:45,680
Speaker 1: to do you to do endless war. And notice how

2105
01:55:45,760 --> 01:55:48,160
Speaker 1: what they call they don't say they support it. What

2106
01:55:48,280 --> 01:55:52,400
Speaker 1: they say they consider it a formula of national consensus

2107
01:55:53,040 --> 01:55:55,640
Speaker 1: because they're really being pulled to it, yeah, kind of

2108
01:55:55,680 --> 01:56:00,480
Speaker 1: being forced. They're like, they're like, we understand that outstanding

2109
01:56:00,480 --> 01:56:02,960
Speaker 1: a national consensus is that this would be an acceptable

2110
01:56:03,000 --> 01:56:05,120
Speaker 1: outcome and we're not going to get in the way

2111
01:56:05,160 --> 01:56:10,000
Speaker 1: of that. So anyway, that's so, anyway, that's well, the

2112
01:56:10,040 --> 01:56:11,960
Speaker 1: rest of the Arab world and the right of return,

2113
01:56:12,160 --> 01:56:15,680
Speaker 1: that's like the Israelis will also say, well, they're they're

2114
01:56:15,800 --> 01:56:17,720
Speaker 1: they're calling for the return of hostages to their homes,

2115
01:56:17,840 --> 01:56:20,520
Speaker 1: which makes it impossible because you'd have to uproot people

2116
01:56:20,520 --> 01:56:24,040
Speaker 1: who are in there currently in their homes. But that's

2117
01:56:24,080 --> 01:56:26,320
Speaker 1: where you negotiate, what is that? What is it? What

2118
01:56:26,440 --> 01:56:28,120
Speaker 1: do you do with that right? Like you have that right,

2119
01:56:29,400 --> 01:56:31,360
Speaker 1: but is that right? Can that right then be assigned

2120
01:56:31,400 --> 01:56:34,880
Speaker 1: to a different home, Like you're not you're not going

2121
01:56:34,960 --> 01:56:38,800
Speaker 1: to actually physically remove people from their homes like settlers

2122
01:56:38,880 --> 01:56:40,440
Speaker 1: do in the West Bank on a regular basis.

2123
01:56:42,320 --> 01:56:44,480
Speaker 5: More great reporting from drops It Ryan. Thank you.

2124
01:56:44,680 --> 01:56:46,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, interesting stuff, that's for sure.

2125
01:56:46,520 --> 01:56:49,120
Speaker 5: Truly. Speaking of very interesting stuff, let's move on to

2126
01:56:49,320 --> 01:56:52,880
Speaker 5: your interview with Naomi Klein. Maybe you can set this

2127
01:56:53,040 --> 01:56:55,560
Speaker 5: up because you had you had a great conversation. She

2128
01:56:55,840 --> 01:56:59,840
Speaker 5: was name checked in a Compact Magazine SUBSEAC article. But

2129
01:57:00,160 --> 01:57:03,280
Speaker 5: Jeff Stollenberger, who's a really interesting writer and was reflecting

2130
01:57:03,400 --> 01:57:06,120
Speaker 5: on his own memories of what the left was like

2131
01:57:06,320 --> 01:57:08,480
Speaker 5: at the end of the nineties and in the early aughts,

2132
01:57:08,600 --> 01:57:12,000
Speaker 5: when the No Logo movement that Naomi Klein obviously gave

2133
01:57:12,120 --> 01:57:17,120
Speaker 5: name to but was inspired by and then became a

2134
01:57:17,160 --> 01:57:21,800
Speaker 5: part of through the work of No Logo, was reflectingcy

2135
01:57:22,080 --> 01:57:25,840
Speaker 5: this was a real push against globalization. And I went

2136
01:57:25,920 --> 01:57:29,680
Speaker 5: back and watched a documentary that Naomi Clem did. I

2137
01:57:29,760 --> 01:57:31,120
Speaker 5: think she tells you in this interview that it was

2138
01:57:31,160 --> 01:57:33,760
Speaker 5: back in two thousand, where there's a clip of her

2139
01:57:33,840 --> 01:57:38,280
Speaker 5: talking about globalization's impact. Much of the documentary is focused

2140
01:57:38,320 --> 01:57:41,200
Speaker 5: on globalization's impact on spoatshop labors, and they'll be very

2141
01:57:41,240 --> 01:57:45,400
Speaker 5: familiar to people who remember these these days, but a

2142
01:57:45,480 --> 01:57:47,920
Speaker 5: lot of it also was focused on what happened to

2143
01:57:47,960 --> 01:57:50,560
Speaker 5: American workers. And there was the slice of the interview

2144
01:57:51,280 --> 01:57:55,560
Speaker 5: about a minute long where she sounded back in two

2145
01:57:55,600 --> 01:57:58,320
Speaker 5: thousand a lot of the same notes that people on

2146
01:57:58,360 --> 01:58:01,760
Speaker 5: the right are sounding now in defense of Trump's tariff

2147
01:58:01,760 --> 01:58:06,040
Speaker 5: policy overall, if not the particular tactics, but of the policy.

2148
01:58:06,720 --> 01:58:09,280
Speaker 1: Right. Yeah, and credit to you for suggesting this interview.

2149
01:58:09,520 --> 01:58:11,320
Speaker 1: We wanted to have her on the show this morning,

2150
01:58:11,400 --> 01:58:13,280
Speaker 1: which she lives on the West coast of Canada. So

2151
01:58:13,760 --> 01:58:16,760
Speaker 1: it's like way too early for that. So I interviewed

2152
01:58:16,800 --> 01:58:24,000
Speaker 1: her yesterday afternoon. Well let's roll some of that, all right,

2153
01:58:24,080 --> 01:58:28,400
Speaker 1: joining us now to talk more about this global collapse

2154
01:58:28,680 --> 01:58:31,720
Speaker 1: of the New World Order or whatever we want to

2155
01:58:31,760 --> 01:58:31,960
Speaker 1: call it.

2156
01:58:32,840 --> 01:58:34,840
Speaker 16: I think they call it a great reset, right.

2157
01:58:34,920 --> 01:58:38,880
Speaker 1: The Great reset? This is the Great Reset. Is none

2158
01:58:38,920 --> 01:58:44,800
Speaker 1: other than Naomi Klein, who, relevant to this conversation, is

2159
01:58:44,920 --> 01:58:48,920
Speaker 1: the author of many books, but in particular No Logo,

2160
01:58:49,120 --> 01:58:53,760
Speaker 1: published in nineteen ninety nine, which kind of drew inspiration

2161
01:58:54,080 --> 01:58:58,800
Speaker 1: from and also provided inspiration to the burgeoning anti globalization

2162
01:58:59,120 --> 01:59:02,000
Speaker 1: movement at the time. I don't know if I told

2163
01:59:02,000 --> 01:59:05,600
Speaker 1: you this. I got my kind of radical political awakening,

2164
01:59:05,840 --> 01:59:10,280
Speaker 1: you know, from that and from the from Seattle, and

2165
01:59:10,360 --> 01:59:12,440
Speaker 1: then I ended up going. You know, Seattle was end

2166
01:59:12,480 --> 01:59:14,880
Speaker 1: of nineteen ninety nine. I was in college on the

2167
01:59:14,920 --> 01:59:17,480
Speaker 1: East coast, so I was not about to go to Seattle,

2168
01:59:17,840 --> 01:59:20,959
Speaker 1: but I did go to They called it A sixteen.

2169
01:59:21,120 --> 01:59:25,720
Speaker 16: This was the Yes, it was IMF World Bank in Washington,

2170
01:59:25,800 --> 01:59:25,960
Speaker 16: d C.

2171
01:59:26,200 --> 01:59:29,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, April twenty twenty, this like two or three day protest.

2172
01:59:30,160 --> 01:59:33,280
Speaker 1: One day was beautiful, another day it was like forty

2173
01:59:33,320 --> 01:59:36,360
Speaker 1: degrees in raining, and I remember just getting drenched the

2174
01:59:36,520 --> 01:59:38,880
Speaker 1: entire day and then they finish it off by pepper

2175
01:59:38,920 --> 01:59:42,440
Speaker 1: spraying everybody, tear gassing. Were you at the did you

2176
01:59:42,520 --> 01:59:43,440
Speaker 1: go to the Washington One?

2177
01:59:43,600 --> 01:59:46,280
Speaker 16: I was at the Washington One. Yeah, yeah, I actually

2178
01:59:46,360 --> 01:59:48,520
Speaker 16: wasn't in Seattle. I was no logo, was at the

2179
01:59:48,560 --> 01:59:51,280
Speaker 16: printer i and you know, I was writing about it,

2180
01:59:51,360 --> 01:59:54,440
Speaker 16: but I couldn't convince anyone to send me because at

2181
01:59:54,480 --> 01:59:59,320
Speaker 16: that point you couldn't you couldn't convince sort of mainstream

2182
01:59:59,640 --> 02:00:02,440
Speaker 16: editors that this there was a possible story to be

2183
02:00:02,560 --> 02:00:04,720
Speaker 16: told because the movement had yet to sort of write

2184
02:00:04,800 --> 02:00:07,640
Speaker 16: first onto the world stage.

2185
02:00:07,400 --> 02:00:10,520
Speaker 1: As Seattle was kind of the yeah, the introduction of

2186
02:00:10,640 --> 02:00:12,720
Speaker 1: that movement to the world. Then they understad okay, okay,

2187
02:00:12,760 --> 02:00:14,240
Speaker 1: there is something going on here, which and then it

2188
02:00:15,040 --> 02:00:17,520
Speaker 1: and then and I'll put this piece up real quick

2189
02:00:17,520 --> 02:00:21,560
Speaker 1: because they talk about this, this phenomenon, this this compact

2190
02:00:21,680 --> 02:00:27,720
Speaker 1: magazine piece that has a very funny headline, what did

2191
02:00:27,800 --> 02:00:32,480
Speaker 1: y'all think post neoliberalism meant? Vibes? Papers essays the strange

2192
02:00:32,520 --> 02:00:36,320
Speaker 1: career of anti globalization politics and this is a reference

2193
02:00:36,360 --> 02:00:39,560
Speaker 1: to you know, obviously this famous kind of I guess

2194
02:00:39,600 --> 02:00:42,960
Speaker 1: it was a tweet on October seventh. What did y'all think,

2195
02:00:43,480 --> 02:00:47,600
Speaker 1: you know, post colonialism or decolonialism? You know, meant so

2196
02:00:47,680 --> 02:00:49,920
Speaker 1: it's a it's a kind of satirical riff on this.

2197
02:00:50,560 --> 02:00:55,280
Speaker 1: But they mentioned that after September twenty September eleventh attacks,

2198
02:00:56,320 --> 02:01:01,520
Speaker 1: the energy around the anti globalization movement really moved into

2199
02:01:01,600 --> 02:01:07,120
Speaker 1: anti war politics, trying to stop the looming invasion of

2200
02:01:07,160 --> 02:01:14,080
Speaker 1: a racks unsuccessfully trying to stop that, and you know,

2201
02:01:14,120 --> 02:01:16,720
Speaker 1: obviously failed to do so and didn't really bubble back

2202
02:01:16,800 --> 02:01:21,760
Speaker 1: until twenty ten. And so now here we are more

2203
02:01:21,800 --> 02:01:25,640
Speaker 1: than twenty five years later, and the biggest wrecking ball

2204
02:01:26,240 --> 02:01:28,720
Speaker 1: that's brought to the system of global free trade is

2205
02:01:28,760 --> 02:01:33,560
Speaker 1: brought by Donald Trump and brought in a way that

2206
02:01:33,720 --> 02:01:37,120
Speaker 1: is I don't want to put any words in your mouth,

2207
02:01:38,000 --> 02:01:40,200
Speaker 1: what's been so I'm just curious, like, what's been your

2208
02:01:40,240 --> 02:01:48,440
Speaker 1: reaction to seeing the arc from Seattle to Trump.

2209
02:01:49,200 --> 02:01:51,160
Speaker 16: I mean, I have to say that quite a few

2210
02:01:51,200 --> 02:01:54,360
Speaker 16: of the think pieces I'll put that in air quotes

2211
02:01:54,360 --> 02:01:56,880
Speaker 16: a little bit, including the one that you just put

2212
02:01:56,920 --> 02:02:01,160
Speaker 16: up there, are based on a bunch of really wrong

2213
02:02:01,320 --> 02:02:04,960
Speaker 16: assumptions about what that movement was in the first place.

2214
02:02:05,400 --> 02:02:08,160
Speaker 16: Not to say that there weren't protectionist elements to it.

2215
02:02:08,360 --> 02:02:11,240
Speaker 16: It was always a kind of an awkward coalition of

2216
02:02:11,360 --> 02:02:16,960
Speaker 16: more nationalists, trade unions and internationalists, human rights activists, environmentalists.

2217
02:02:17,360 --> 02:02:17,520
Speaker 7: You know.

2218
02:02:17,600 --> 02:02:23,000
Speaker 16: The slogan in Seattle was Teamsters and turtles together again,

2219
02:02:23,040 --> 02:02:25,920
Speaker 16: which was a reference to the fact that there was

2220
02:02:26,000 --> 02:02:30,240
Speaker 16: this coalition between big unions like the Teamsters that were

2221
02:02:30,360 --> 02:02:37,040
Speaker 16: more interested in just protecting American jobs and environmentalists who

2222
02:02:37,080 --> 02:02:41,120
Speaker 16: were looking at how environmental deregulation or a race to

2223
02:02:41,200 --> 02:02:45,000
Speaker 16: the bottom was impacting in this case, turtles who are

2224
02:02:45,040 --> 02:02:50,040
Speaker 16: being caught up in fishing. The point is we spent

2225
02:02:50,160 --> 02:02:54,839
Speaker 16: a ton of time back in the day actively correcting

2226
02:02:54,880 --> 02:02:57,240
Speaker 16: the record that we were not opposed to trade. We

2227
02:02:57,360 --> 02:03:00,240
Speaker 16: were opposed to the phrase we used that the time

2228
02:03:00,360 --> 02:03:02,879
Speaker 16: was corporate rule, you know. And there was huge teachings

2229
02:03:02,920 --> 02:03:06,080
Speaker 16: in Seattle and Washington that were all about the fact

2230
02:03:06,160 --> 02:03:09,240
Speaker 16: that this thing that was just calling itself, you know,

2231
02:03:09,360 --> 02:03:14,040
Speaker 16: this kind of anodyne you know, free trade was not free.

2232
02:03:14,680 --> 02:03:18,320
Speaker 16: That it was a wish list for multinational corporations overwhelming

2233
02:03:18,400 --> 02:03:23,120
Speaker 16: the US corporations to just maximize their profits. And we

2234
02:03:23,320 --> 02:03:28,920
Speaker 16: are very very far into that successful revolution. What we

2235
02:03:29,040 --> 02:03:33,080
Speaker 16: were naming at the time, was that what this particular

2236
02:03:33,200 --> 02:03:36,080
Speaker 16: set of trade rules that were all about deregulation and

2237
02:03:36,200 --> 02:03:40,600
Speaker 16: pushing privatization and economic austerity would deliver would be a

2238
02:03:40,720 --> 02:03:46,160
Speaker 16: race to the bottom globally on labor, on environmental standards.

2239
02:03:47,240 --> 02:03:51,560
Speaker 16: And you know, I think anybody who thinks that Trump

2240
02:03:51,720 --> 02:03:56,520
Speaker 16: represents an end to corporate rule and that you know, no,

2241
02:03:56,720 --> 02:03:59,400
Speaker 16: he is the fulfillment of it. Musk is the fulfillment

2242
02:03:59,480 --> 02:04:02,480
Speaker 16: of it. Definitely, there are riffs inside their strange and

2243
02:04:02,560 --> 02:04:06,920
Speaker 16: awkward coalition about exactly how to go about this, but

2244
02:04:07,000 --> 02:04:10,760
Speaker 16: I would say the race to the bottom has been successful.

2245
02:04:10,960 --> 02:04:13,440
Speaker 16: And I think the reason why there is even the

2246
02:04:13,600 --> 02:04:18,080
Speaker 16: prospect of reassuring some production in the United States is

2247
02:04:18,160 --> 02:04:22,000
Speaker 16: because unions have been so successfully weakened over these thirty

2248
02:04:22,080 --> 02:04:27,240
Speaker 16: years because they're counting on a huge amount of automation,

2249
02:04:27,400 --> 02:04:30,200
Speaker 16: so they're not planning on paying any workers for most

2250
02:04:30,240 --> 02:04:34,680
Speaker 16: of this on shore production. And they've been saying this openly, right, like,

2251
02:04:35,480 --> 02:04:38,480
Speaker 16: we're going to be bringing like the iPhone assembly jobs back,

2252
02:04:38,520 --> 02:04:39,880
Speaker 16: but it's not going to be humans who are going

2253
02:04:39,920 --> 02:04:43,120
Speaker 16: to be assembling them, right, And the other piece of this,

2254
02:04:43,280 --> 02:04:45,560
Speaker 16: and it's kind of driving me mad that people aren't

2255
02:04:45,560 --> 02:04:48,720
Speaker 16: connecting the dots. Is where doge fits in with all

2256
02:04:48,800 --> 02:04:51,320
Speaker 16: of this, right, because here is Musk and the boys

2257
02:04:51,680 --> 02:04:57,640
Speaker 16: who are decimating the regulatory state. So if there is

2258
02:04:58,280 --> 02:05:00,760
Speaker 16: to an extent that there will be so on shoring

2259
02:05:00,840 --> 02:05:03,400
Speaker 16: under this new new regime, like bringing jobs back to

2260
02:05:03,440 --> 02:05:07,280
Speaker 16: the US, it's going to be precisely under the conditions

2261
02:05:07,320 --> 02:05:09,080
Speaker 16: of that race to the bottom that we were trying

2262
02:05:09,120 --> 02:05:10,880
Speaker 16: to stop in the first place. Right, So this is

2263
02:05:11,320 --> 02:05:14,440
Speaker 16: this is not an end to neoliberalism in many ways,

2264
02:05:14,480 --> 02:05:18,560
Speaker 16: it's it's it's sort of logical culmination. And yeah, we

2265
02:05:18,680 --> 02:05:21,560
Speaker 16: tried to stop it, so you know, Sue us, we

2266
02:05:21,640 --> 02:05:22,200
Speaker 16: did try.

2267
02:05:22,680 --> 02:05:25,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so my colleague Emily who couldn't join us

2268
02:05:26,000 --> 02:05:30,760
Speaker 1: for this, So I found this clip from many years ago.

2269
02:05:30,840 --> 02:05:33,000
Speaker 1: Maybe you can tell us when when exactly this was

2270
02:05:33,080 --> 02:05:36,160
Speaker 1: wanted to get your I'll play this for you the

2271
02:05:36,840 --> 02:05:41,320
Speaker 1: the much younger Naomi kleinb and then get your get

2272
02:05:41,360 --> 02:05:43,560
Speaker 1: your reaction to it now, how you would have how

2273
02:05:43,600 --> 02:05:44,320
Speaker 1: you would say it now.

2274
02:05:45,320 --> 02:05:49,240
Speaker 16: But the significance of for a company like Nike is

2275
02:05:49,560 --> 02:05:53,880
Speaker 16: that building these kind of utopian branded world costs much

2276
02:05:53,960 --> 02:05:57,480
Speaker 16: more than just advertising a product. So you often hear

2277
02:05:58,000 --> 02:06:00,680
Speaker 16: companies openly saying that we have made a choice. We

2278
02:06:00,840 --> 02:06:05,000
Speaker 16: have decided to build our brand. But that choice has consequences,

2279
02:06:05,040 --> 02:06:07,440
Speaker 16: and one of the consequences is that when that decision

2280
02:06:07,560 --> 02:06:11,720
Speaker 16: is made, it is often accompanied by a decision to

2281
02:06:11,880 --> 02:06:16,480
Speaker 16: sell off factories and to embrace the Nike model, the

2282
02:06:16,560 --> 02:06:19,600
Speaker 16: company that owns all this intellectual property but doesn't own

2283
02:06:19,640 --> 02:06:24,120
Speaker 16: any factories. When a company decides to embrace this model,

2284
02:06:24,840 --> 02:06:30,640
Speaker 16: that obviously immediately affects their workforces. In North America and Europe,

2285
02:06:30,920 --> 02:06:34,160
Speaker 16: people who had steady unionized jobs were paid enough to

2286
02:06:34,200 --> 02:06:37,200
Speaker 16: support a family lose those jobs, cutting.

2287
02:06:37,000 --> 02:06:40,680
Speaker 7: Six thousand jobs now unemployed, lost another forty two.

2288
02:06:40,600 --> 02:06:43,760
Speaker 5: Thousand jobs, cutting eleven and a half thousand over their.

2289
02:06:43,760 --> 02:06:48,280
Speaker 1: Jobs from factories across the South to plants overseas where

2290
02:06:48,400 --> 02:06:49,760
Speaker 1: labor is cheaper.

2291
02:06:50,000 --> 02:06:53,680
Speaker 16: The communities that were built around a factory that depended

2292
02:06:53,880 --> 02:06:57,600
Speaker 16: on these factories are often gutted, and the jobs that

2293
02:06:57,840 --> 02:07:00,880
Speaker 16: often come to replace these manufacturing jobs are these new

2294
02:07:01,040 --> 02:07:04,160
Speaker 16: economy jobs that are often service sector jobs.

2295
02:07:04,680 --> 02:07:09,800
Speaker 1: I would guess that you still agree with I agree

2296
02:07:09,800 --> 02:07:11,800
Speaker 1: with that, Annalys. When was that from, by the way,

2297
02:07:11,840 --> 02:07:12,040
Speaker 1: do you.

2298
02:07:12,080 --> 02:07:13,720
Speaker 16: Think probably two thousand?

2299
02:07:14,760 --> 02:07:14,960
Speaker 1: Yeah?

2300
02:07:15,280 --> 02:07:21,760
Speaker 16: I think yeah. I was trying. I was describing a

2301
02:07:21,880 --> 02:07:25,000
Speaker 16: business model that a lot of a lot of the

2302
02:07:25,120 --> 02:07:29,360
Speaker 16: reporting on offshoring at the time was described as companies

2303
02:07:30,000 --> 02:07:34,680
Speaker 16: closing factories in one location and opening factories in another location.

2304
02:07:34,800 --> 02:07:37,280
Speaker 16: So when I was what I was articulating in that clip,

2305
02:07:37,360 --> 02:07:41,920
Speaker 16: and it remains true in most sectors. There are some

2306
02:07:42,120 --> 02:07:45,720
Speaker 16: sectors that never fully embrace this model. But I'll just

2307
02:07:45,760 --> 02:07:49,880
Speaker 16: put an asterisk there. But this idea that really owning

2308
02:07:49,920 --> 02:07:53,680
Speaker 16: your own factories is is kind of a loser's game,

2309
02:07:53,920 --> 02:07:56,480
Speaker 16: right that that that if you're smart, you keep it light,

2310
02:07:57,360 --> 02:08:01,880
Speaker 16: you own your intellectual property, you lloy you know, designers

2311
02:08:01,920 --> 02:08:05,080
Speaker 16: and marketers, but you are going to produce through a

2312
02:08:05,160 --> 02:08:09,720
Speaker 16: web of global outsourcing. The exception to this was the

2313
02:08:09,840 --> 02:08:13,080
Speaker 16: are the auto companies, like the really heavy manufacturing that

2314
02:08:13,400 --> 02:08:18,560
Speaker 16: tended to continue to own their assembly plants, right, but

2315
02:08:18,840 --> 02:08:22,280
Speaker 16: everything that they could outsource to this web of contractors

2316
02:08:22,320 --> 02:08:25,480
Speaker 16: where you'd have some plausible deniability, they did. And that

2317
02:08:25,640 --> 02:08:28,640
Speaker 16: remains true. And this is you know, one of the

2318
02:08:28,760 --> 02:08:34,240
Speaker 16: people who really represents this very very powerfully is Donald Trump, right.

2319
02:08:34,280 --> 02:08:37,640
Speaker 16: I mean, he is a quintessential sort of hollow brand that,

2320
02:08:37,760 --> 02:08:40,800
Speaker 16: particularly after the Apprentice realized that he could make more

2321
02:08:40,880 --> 02:08:44,360
Speaker 16: money not opening his own hotels and buildings, but leasing

2322
02:08:44,440 --> 02:08:48,280
Speaker 16: out the Trump brand to whoever wanted to slap it

2323
02:08:48,360 --> 02:08:50,640
Speaker 16: onto their development and so on. And so when you

2324
02:08:50,720 --> 02:08:54,960
Speaker 16: talk about the US companies bringing the jobs home, it's

2325
02:08:55,040 --> 02:08:58,640
Speaker 16: completely anacrotistic to how most of these companies actually function.

2326
02:08:59,040 --> 02:09:02,120
Speaker 16: They don't want to own the kinds of factory at

2327
02:09:02,160 --> 02:09:04,760
Speaker 16: the level that they used to because they it's much

2328
02:09:04,840 --> 02:09:07,560
Speaker 16: much more profitable to outsource all of that to a

2329
02:09:07,600 --> 02:09:10,200
Speaker 16: web of contractors. So some of them will will come

2330
02:09:10,360 --> 02:09:15,160
Speaker 16: to the US, but they'll still continue to use the

2331
02:09:15,280 --> 02:09:18,680
Speaker 16: leverage of being able to pit different contractors and subcontractors

2332
02:09:18,720 --> 02:09:21,560
Speaker 16: against each other for who can deliver you know, the

2333
02:09:21,640 --> 02:09:24,120
Speaker 16: pieces of the of the assembly line at the at

2334
02:09:24,160 --> 02:09:25,720
Speaker 16: the lowest price. None of that is changing.

2335
02:09:26,480 --> 02:09:29,760
Speaker 1: So let's say that the Trump administration, you know, watched

2336
02:09:29,760 --> 02:09:32,760
Speaker 1: that clip and said, wow, this this author really diagnosed

2337
02:09:32,800 --> 02:09:34,840
Speaker 1: the problem. Well, come on in, like, tell us how

2338
02:09:34,960 --> 02:09:38,360
Speaker 1: we can fix this for for American workers, and we

2339
02:09:38,440 --> 02:09:41,600
Speaker 1: can like, what what should they be doing if they were.

2340
02:09:42,440 --> 02:09:46,000
Speaker 16: Serious zooms that that Donald Trump and Elon Musk of

2341
02:09:46,080 --> 02:09:50,400
Speaker 16: any interest in actually and genuinely helping American workers if

2342
02:09:50,400 --> 02:09:52,160
Speaker 16: they wanted to do that that you know, the surest

2343
02:09:52,200 --> 02:09:53,920
Speaker 16: way that they that they would do that is support

2344
02:09:54,000 --> 02:09:56,360
Speaker 16: labor rights instead of trying to undercut.

2345
02:09:56,000 --> 02:09:58,320
Speaker 1: Them, destroy the NLRB, destroy.

2346
02:09:58,080 --> 02:10:00,840
Speaker 16: The MLRB, you know, fight unionization and in your own plants,

2347
02:10:00,840 --> 02:10:03,800
Speaker 16: as Elon Musk has done. So, you know, I think

2348
02:10:03,840 --> 02:10:07,160
Speaker 16: that this is really the cover story for their US,

2349
02:10:07,280 --> 02:10:08,920
Speaker 16: you know, and I think unfortunately, we have got a

2350
02:10:09,000 --> 02:10:10,920
Speaker 16: lot of labor leaders who are willing to play along

2351
02:10:10,960 --> 02:10:13,440
Speaker 16: with it. And you know, maybe there will be some

2352
02:10:13,880 --> 02:10:17,920
Speaker 16: some marginal gains, but but that remains to be seen.

2353
02:10:17,960 --> 02:10:19,880
Speaker 16: I mean, I think it's a very big gamble for

2354
02:10:20,200 --> 02:10:22,200
Speaker 16: for for big unions like the the u A W

2355
02:10:22,360 --> 02:10:27,480
Speaker 16: to support this terraff regime. And you know, I think

2356
02:10:27,640 --> 02:10:29,920
Speaker 16: the global impact of this, you know, I'm talking to

2357
02:10:29,960 --> 02:10:35,760
Speaker 16: you from Canada, and you know, the way we, you know,

2358
02:10:35,840 --> 02:10:38,520
Speaker 16: many of us understand the impact of these terrorists is like,

2359
02:10:38,600 --> 02:10:42,360
Speaker 16: this is not the US returning to protectionism, as Trump

2360
02:10:42,400 --> 02:10:45,160
Speaker 16: says again and again, it's about leverage, right, if you

2361
02:10:45,320 --> 02:10:47,600
Speaker 16: listen to what he's actually saying, He's saying Canada is

2362
02:10:47,640 --> 02:10:50,200
Speaker 16: being unfair. Why are they being unfair because they're not

2363
02:10:50,320 --> 02:10:52,520
Speaker 16: letting our banks in in the you know, they're not,

2364
02:10:52,720 --> 02:10:56,280
Speaker 16: you know, and the US healthcare sector desperately wants in.

2365
02:10:56,440 --> 02:10:59,200
Speaker 16: So you know, there are a few protections that remained

2366
02:10:59,200 --> 02:11:03,520
Speaker 16: in place under the neoliberal trading regime. And you know,

2367
02:11:03,600 --> 02:11:05,640
Speaker 16: I think that there's a calculation now and there isn't

2368
02:11:05,680 --> 02:11:09,160
Speaker 16: agreement you know, across the board among US corporations that

2369
02:11:09,360 --> 02:11:12,880
Speaker 16: now the US has the leverage to to to get

2370
02:11:12,920 --> 02:11:16,640
Speaker 16: even more right to knock down the remaining barriers. So

2371
02:11:16,800 --> 02:11:18,960
Speaker 16: you know, I don't believe he really is a protectionist

2372
02:11:19,040 --> 02:11:21,520
Speaker 16: in the way that he wants to market himself to

2373
02:11:23,120 --> 02:11:26,520
Speaker 16: to US manufacturing workers, for whom he represents a kind

2374
02:11:26,520 --> 02:11:28,600
Speaker 16: of a you know, I called it toxic nostalgia in

2375
02:11:28,640 --> 02:11:30,840
Speaker 16: the past, like this idea that you're going to return

2376
02:11:31,520 --> 02:11:34,440
Speaker 16: to some you know, manufacturing heyday that has passed and

2377
02:11:34,760 --> 02:11:36,960
Speaker 16: it isn't going to happen. And you know where I

2378
02:11:37,040 --> 02:11:39,760
Speaker 16: think you really see the lie of it is around

2379
02:11:39,800 --> 02:11:43,480
Speaker 16: AI because you know, some of his like the centerpiece

2380
02:11:43,920 --> 02:11:46,600
Speaker 16: of the biggest investments that he has announced so far

2381
02:11:46,680 --> 02:11:50,680
Speaker 16: as president, have been with the big tech companies around

2382
02:11:50,800 --> 02:11:55,040
Speaker 16: massive data centers that you know, are unleashing technologies that

2383
02:11:55,160 --> 02:12:00,280
Speaker 16: will decimate American jobs. So this idea that he would

2384
02:12:00,280 --> 02:12:02,120
Speaker 16: bring me in to figure out how to help American

2385
02:12:02,200 --> 02:12:05,280
Speaker 16: workers is absurd. I reject the point premise. I don't know.

2386
02:12:05,720 --> 02:12:08,040
Speaker 16: I think he's a marketer and and you know part

2387
02:12:08,040 --> 02:12:10,920
Speaker 16: of how he's marketing himself as the champion of American workers,

2388
02:12:10,960 --> 02:12:12,520
Speaker 16: who he has screwed his entire life.

2389
02:12:13,120 --> 02:12:16,840
Speaker 1: Now, last question for you. One thing you've been really

2390
02:12:16,880 --> 02:12:20,120
Speaker 1: good at throughout your writing career has been seeing where

2391
02:12:20,200 --> 02:12:23,160
Speaker 1: things are going next, seeing around the corner that's that

2392
02:12:23,440 --> 02:12:25,960
Speaker 1: that others couldn't quite see around. Do you still have

2393
02:12:26,080 --> 02:12:28,640
Speaker 1: that vision? Like do you and do you see like

2394
02:12:28,720 --> 02:12:32,360
Speaker 1: where do you see this going? Like where where is this?

2395
02:12:32,880 --> 02:12:35,720
Speaker 1: Where is the United States headed? Where's the where's where's

2396
02:12:35,760 --> 02:12:36,960
Speaker 1: this world system headed?

2397
02:12:37,640 --> 02:12:37,840
Speaker 8: Yeah?

2398
02:12:40,080 --> 02:12:43,960
Speaker 16: Well, I mean this is where I think that these articles,

2399
02:12:44,040 --> 02:12:46,640
Speaker 16: these you know, these takes around. Okay, this really is

2400
02:12:46,880 --> 02:12:49,440
Speaker 16: This is what the left always wanted, the end of neoliberalism,

2401
02:12:49,480 --> 02:12:52,640
Speaker 16: as opposed to understanding that this is a new stage

2402
02:12:53,160 --> 02:12:57,920
Speaker 16: of deregulated capitalism. You are really dangerous because where I

2403
02:12:58,000 --> 02:13:00,760
Speaker 16: see it going and here this is not like some

2404
02:13:00,920 --> 02:13:05,200
Speaker 16: prophetic power. This is like actually listening to Peter Tiel,

2405
02:13:05,640 --> 02:13:08,840
Speaker 16: to Elon Musk, to the people who are underwriting the

2406
02:13:08,880 --> 02:13:12,760
Speaker 16: Trump administration who it's if you listen to what they

2407
02:13:12,880 --> 02:13:15,080
Speaker 16: say and also where they have put their money in

2408
02:13:15,160 --> 02:13:17,880
Speaker 16: what they're doing. What you see is they no longer

2409
02:13:17,960 --> 02:13:21,040
Speaker 16: believe in the nation state at all. You know, they're

2410
02:13:21,160 --> 02:13:24,960
Speaker 16: excited about things like Freedom City. They're excited about places

2411
02:13:25,040 --> 02:13:27,960
Speaker 16: like Prospera in Honduras where they manage to create like

2412
02:13:28,040 --> 02:13:32,280
Speaker 16: a sort of a corporate city state. They're very excited

2413
02:13:32,360 --> 02:13:37,600
Speaker 16: by the possibilities or what AI can can accomplish, you know,

2414
02:13:38,200 --> 02:13:42,000
Speaker 16: in this kind of corporate secessionist movement. And so I

2415
02:13:42,040 --> 02:13:45,600
Speaker 16: think this really is a fulfillment of the corporate rule

2416
02:13:45,880 --> 02:13:49,680
Speaker 16: dream beyond the nation state. So they still see a

2417
02:13:49,760 --> 02:13:52,560
Speaker 16: role for the nation state at this phase, but I

2418
02:13:52,600 --> 02:13:55,120
Speaker 16: think beyond it they want to shed. They want to

2419
02:13:55,160 --> 02:13:59,520
Speaker 16: shed it. So yeah, I think that's where we're headed.

2420
02:13:59,560 --> 02:14:01,640
Speaker 16: And I think acting as if this has been a

2421
02:14:02,080 --> 02:14:04,840
Speaker 16: like a wish fulfillment for the left, is it a

2422
02:14:04,920 --> 02:14:06,040
Speaker 16: really dangerous.

2423
02:14:05,640 --> 02:14:10,200
Speaker 1: Distraction from no logo to no state next.

2424
02:14:11,480 --> 02:14:13,680
Speaker 16: And once again you can find leftists who will make

2425
02:14:13,720 --> 02:14:14,880
Speaker 16: that same argument.

2426
02:14:14,720 --> 02:14:16,800
Speaker 1: This is not what they meant, right, Yes, that's not

2427
02:14:16,880 --> 02:14:19,200
Speaker 1: what we meant. That's not the withering that we meant.

2428
02:14:19,960 --> 02:14:23,280
Speaker 1: Naomi Klein thank you so much for joining me. Very

2429
02:14:23,320 --> 02:14:26,040
Speaker 1: much appreciing and good luck in Canada. Sorry that we're

2430
02:14:26,400 --> 02:14:27,760
Speaker 1: all of a sudden enemies.

2431
02:14:28,320 --> 02:14:30,480
Speaker 16: I don't quite we're going to gang up on you

2432
02:14:30,560 --> 02:14:32,280
Speaker 16: with the rest of the world. All right, take care, all.

2433
02:14:32,240 --> 02:14:35,000
Speaker 1: Right, I'd say it, all right, Emily, what did you think?

2434
02:14:36,160 --> 02:14:36,320
Speaker 2: You know?

2435
02:14:38,760 --> 02:14:41,880
Speaker 5: This is what's interesting. It's sort of like you're faced

2436
02:14:41,920 --> 02:14:45,760
Speaker 5: with either She's completely right about Elon Musk and Trump

2437
02:14:45,880 --> 02:14:48,840
Speaker 5: is such an interesting point or such an interesting case

2438
02:14:48,880 --> 02:14:52,400
Speaker 5: study in this incredible argument she makes about the brandification

2439
02:14:52,520 --> 02:14:56,120
Speaker 5: of American companies that they've Nike, for example, owns intellectual

2440
02:14:56,160 --> 02:15:00,240
Speaker 5: property and then has other factories that they buy from.

2441
02:15:00,560 --> 02:15:02,680
Speaker 4: But it's the Nike IP that Nike is based around.

2442
02:15:02,720 --> 02:15:06,080
Speaker 5: It's not making Nike, it's it's buying for people who

2443
02:15:06,160 --> 02:15:08,160
Speaker 5: make Nike, and then it's branding it with the IP.

2444
02:15:08,560 --> 02:15:15,320
Speaker 5: Trump truly is that, like everything Trump steaks, I mean.

2445
02:15:15,280 --> 02:15:18,800
Speaker 4: Just unbelievable. How Donald Trump.

2446
02:15:19,400 --> 02:15:22,520
Speaker 5: But that's what's so almost Shakespearean about this is that

2447
02:15:22,920 --> 02:15:26,480
Speaker 5: Trump as that man that the man who is her

2448
02:15:26,680 --> 02:15:30,880
Speaker 5: case in point is also now the person who is

2449
02:15:31,000 --> 02:15:35,600
Speaker 5: pissing off all of the multinational corporate corporations, all of

2450
02:15:35,680 --> 02:15:39,480
Speaker 5: the investors. He is the one who is like giving

2451
02:15:39,560 --> 02:15:42,920
Speaker 5: the middle finger that I think, you know people who

2452
02:15:43,000 --> 02:15:47,160
Speaker 5: were lobbing Molotov cocktails at the wto or Seattle in

2453
02:15:47,200 --> 02:15:50,680
Speaker 5: nineteen ninety, like that is what if it were coming

2454
02:15:50,680 --> 02:15:52,840
Speaker 5: from one of them, or Bernie Sanders, he'd be like,

2455
02:15:53,040 --> 02:15:54,400
Speaker 5: I am watching.

2456
02:15:54,160 --> 02:15:57,640
Speaker 4: This burn and it's feeling great now.

2457
02:15:57,680 --> 02:16:01,200
Speaker 5: That might not be a substantive teak of Naomi. I

2458
02:16:01,400 --> 02:16:03,320
Speaker 5: just I thought it was really interesting to hear her

2459
02:16:03,440 --> 02:16:05,720
Speaker 5: reflect on that, and it is so Shakespeare and that

2460
02:16:05,800 --> 02:16:08,720
Speaker 5: Donald Trump is the guy who represents everything she was

2461
02:16:09,000 --> 02:16:12,320
Speaker 5: arguing exists rightfully arguing exists. But on the other hand,

2462
02:16:12,760 --> 02:16:15,440
Speaker 5: I think there's something to be said for like Trump

2463
02:16:15,560 --> 02:16:18,680
Speaker 5: may embody all of those bad things, but the alternative,

2464
02:16:18,680 --> 02:16:22,840
Speaker 5: there's no alternative. There's Bernie. But other than that, like

2465
02:16:22,920 --> 02:16:25,560
Speaker 5: Bernie doesn't control the Democratic Party. The Democratic Party has

2466
02:16:25,560 --> 02:16:28,400
Speaker 5: said no to Bernie over and over again, and Republicans

2467
02:16:28,440 --> 02:16:30,720
Speaker 5: did that. They said no to their populists over and

2468
02:16:30,760 --> 02:16:32,600
Speaker 5: over again, and they got Trump. And now it's like

2469
02:16:34,600 --> 02:16:36,800
Speaker 5: who if it's not him, who And if it's not

2470
02:16:37,200 --> 02:16:39,000
Speaker 5: the only way you get it with Trump is this

2471
02:16:39,200 --> 02:16:43,720
Speaker 5: insane process. And I just don't think the jury's fully

2472
02:16:43,800 --> 02:16:46,600
Speaker 5: out on whether or not what Trump does. I'm not

2473
02:16:46,600 --> 02:16:48,520
Speaker 5: saying it's a big possibility. I have said this all show,

2474
02:16:48,920 --> 02:16:51,520
Speaker 5: but there is a possibility that he does actually restructure

2475
02:16:52,040 --> 02:16:54,680
Speaker 5: global trade in a way to do that's what restricts

2476
02:16:54,680 --> 02:16:56,879
Speaker 5: your global trade in a way that is ultimately productive.

2477
02:16:57,240 --> 02:16:57,920
Speaker 4: Not saying it's a.

2478
02:16:57,959 --> 02:17:01,879
Speaker 5: Ninety percent chance, but there's a chance. Maybe I'm too hopeful.

2479
02:17:02,040 --> 02:17:05,960
Speaker 1: And the analogy I was thinking of, and I'm not

2480
02:17:06,040 --> 02:17:08,560
Speaker 1: saying that Trump is Hitler, but like let's say in

2481
02:17:08,600 --> 02:17:12,080
Speaker 1: the nineteen twenties, Rose Luxembourg is out there and the

2482
02:17:12,400 --> 02:17:15,200
Speaker 1: German communists and socialists are out there saying, like, look,

2483
02:17:15,200 --> 02:17:18,920
Speaker 1: another world as possible. If I'm a republic terrible, we

2484
02:17:19,000 --> 02:17:20,400
Speaker 1: want to get rid of it and replace it with

2485
02:17:20,480 --> 02:17:25,000
Speaker 1: something different. And then the national socialists end up winning

2486
02:17:25,200 --> 02:17:28,440
Speaker 1: and replacing it with something different. You wouldn't be like, oh, well,

2487
02:17:28,440 --> 02:17:30,360
Speaker 1: I guess you're happy, then right, you got something different.

2488
02:17:30,360 --> 02:17:33,280
Speaker 1: It's like, no, it's worse. Yeah, it can always be worse,

2489
02:17:33,400 --> 02:17:36,600
Speaker 1: it's my point. Yeah, and just because you were against

2490
02:17:37,640 --> 02:17:40,400
Speaker 1: something doesn't mean you're necessarily for the thing that replaces

2491
02:17:40,480 --> 02:17:40,760
Speaker 1: that thing.

2492
02:17:40,959 --> 02:17:42,640
Speaker 5: Now, I think that was a really good point to

2493
02:17:42,720 --> 02:17:45,120
Speaker 5: hear from both you and Naomi, like, I do agree

2494
02:17:45,160 --> 02:17:48,240
Speaker 5: with this, and I'm probably I don't want to ascribe

2495
02:17:48,280 --> 02:17:50,120
Speaker 5: this to her because I don't know that it's essentially true,

2496
02:17:50,160 --> 02:17:53,520
Speaker 5: but I do think that there's sometimes just this, because

2497
02:17:53,560 --> 02:17:59,240
Speaker 5: Trump is such a polarizing and bizarre figure, sometimes there's

2498
02:17:59,440 --> 02:18:02,680
Speaker 5: just this. It's like a I don't know what, a

2499
02:18:02,720 --> 02:18:06,720
Speaker 5: cultural barrier that people on the left are still like

2500
02:18:06,840 --> 02:18:12,320
Speaker 5: really icked out about ever transgressing and ever saying we

2501
02:18:12,480 --> 02:18:17,840
Speaker 5: wanted radical politics, and here's the radical politics of Donald Trump.

2502
02:18:18,160 --> 02:18:21,199
Speaker 5: It's like when Susan Sarandon, one of my favorite moments.

2503
02:18:21,280 --> 02:18:23,120
Speaker 5: Long time viewers of the show will know, I was

2504
02:18:23,120 --> 02:18:26,920
Speaker 5: talking to Chris Hayes and got, you know, just massive

2505
02:18:27,040 --> 02:18:32,119
Speaker 5: viral attention for saying that that maybe by not voting

2506
02:18:32,160 --> 02:18:34,680
Speaker 5: for Hillary, if Trump wins, he will bring the revolutions.

2507
02:18:35,440 --> 02:18:38,280
Speaker 5: And Chris Haynes was like, you mean in a Leninist way,

2508
02:18:38,440 --> 02:18:44,040
Speaker 5: It's just yep. Sometimes it's just to me, some of

2509
02:18:44,120 --> 02:18:48,560
Speaker 5: these leftist politics are so and I think fascinatingly radical.

2510
02:18:48,840 --> 02:18:50,520
Speaker 5: I feel like that's the world that you were steeped in.

2511
02:18:52,440 --> 02:18:57,480
Speaker 5: And it's like the Schallenberger headline that you talked about

2512
02:18:57,520 --> 02:18:59,600
Speaker 5: what did y'all think post nibilism meant vibes?

2513
02:18:59,640 --> 02:19:00,879
Speaker 4: Papers essays.

2514
02:19:02,040 --> 02:19:03,360
Speaker 1: It's pretty funny. I'll give them on that.

2515
02:19:03,560 --> 02:19:03,800
Speaker 17: It is.

2516
02:19:04,280 --> 02:19:06,440
Speaker 5: It is, so I'll give him that that was a

2517
02:19:06,480 --> 02:19:08,959
Speaker 5: great interview. I'm really like, I thought it was fascinating

2518
02:19:08,959 --> 02:19:10,920
Speaker 5: and I was really appreciative that she had sat down

2519
02:19:10,959 --> 02:19:12,000
Speaker 5: and you did such a great job.

2520
02:19:12,080 --> 02:19:14,720
Speaker 1: So yeah, thank you, Nailmi. We really appreciate it, and

2521
02:19:14,760 --> 02:19:15,560
Speaker 1: thank you for the idea.

2522
02:19:16,080 --> 02:19:17,800
Speaker 5: Oh anytime, I'm full of ideas.

2523
02:19:17,840 --> 02:19:19,440
Speaker 1: There you go. All right, Well, so we'll be back

2524
02:19:19,760 --> 02:19:23,760
Speaker 1: I assume on Friday we'll be down another ten percent

2525
02:19:23,840 --> 02:19:26,720
Speaker 1: by then we'll see headed towards zero.

2526
02:19:26,920 --> 02:19:29,920
Speaker 5: Ryan's the one who's community noting David Sachs just every

2527
02:19:30,000 --> 02:19:32,240
Speaker 5: hour it's correcting him.

2528
02:19:32,879 --> 02:19:33,920
Speaker 1: Good luck out there, people.

2529
02:19:34,080 --> 02:19:35,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, thanks for tuning in, and we will see you

2530
02:19:35,959 --> 02:19:38,120
Speaker 5: back here with Crystal. Maybe Soger. Maybe we can pull

2531
02:19:38,160 --> 02:19:41,840
Speaker 5: Soger into one of my Friday sessions. He's very busy

2532
02:19:41,959 --> 02:19:42,800
Speaker 5: right now, but maybe we.

2533
02:19:42,800 --> 02:19:45,000
Speaker 1: Can pull the time conflict, but maybe we can get

2534
02:19:45,080 --> 02:19:47,840
Speaker 1: him this Friday. We'll try, all right, see you then,