Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of Cutting the Distance podcast. I'm
Speaker 1: your guest host Dirk Durham. I'm sitting here in Jason's
Speaker 1: chair as he's an elk camp and getting ready for
Speaker 1: the big opener. You know, for most of us hunters,
Speaker 1: successful wolf hunting remains a big mystery. Wolves are incredibly
Speaker 1: intelligent and since the first wolf hunting season, they have
Speaker 1: adapted to avoiding humans. Today, we're going to talk about
Speaker 1: Colin wolves with a good friend of mine who I
Speaker 1: admire a lot, my buddy, Tom Schneider. Thanks for coming
Speaker 1: on today. Tom, Hey, thank you for having me. I'm excited.
Speaker 1: This is a topic I love talking about absolutely. Tom
Speaker 1: and his family are wildly successful with her UM Hunting
Speaker 1: YouTube channel where they feature elk hunts, deer hunts, moose hunts,
Speaker 1: cariboo hunts, bear hunts, and wolf hunts. Thomas quite a
Speaker 1: knack for calling animals of all kinds, including wolves. Thanks
Speaker 1: for coming on the show. And I'm just uh, I
Speaker 1: just wanted to pick your brain on calling wolves today
Speaker 1: and uh, maybe a little bit of some tips and
Speaker 1: tactics and and uh and whatnot a calling wolves, um,
Speaker 1: Since you're one of the only guys that I that
Speaker 1: I hear about this like successfully um hunting and calling
Speaker 1: wolves in Idaho. Mm hmmm, being told that too, just
Speaker 1: like I'm consistently being told that I'm consistent. I guess
Speaker 1: you can say, um, every single year, I'm finding them
Speaker 1: and still killing them. So perfect, perfect. You must have
Speaker 1: a kind of figured out, must have a good recipe.
Speaker 1: Can you give us a little background about where you're from?
Speaker 1: And I am how the wolves have kind of impacted
Speaker 1: the landscape where you're from. Yeah, so we live in
Speaker 1: a very timbered side of Idaho, on the more of
Speaker 1: the northern side, And you know, I grew up in
Speaker 1: an area where I think it's it's almost like one
Speaker 1: of those deals where you didn't realize how good you
Speaker 1: had it until you lose it. And you know, we
Speaker 1: had really good out hunting, really good deer hunting, quality
Speaker 1: moose shy this species we have in our ears, the
Speaker 1: Shira's moose, um and more. Just not just hunting, but
Speaker 1: I've I've always been a big time shed hunter since
Speaker 1: I was a kid. We picked up sheds um in
Speaker 1: the spring. Um. We're doing a lot of trail camp
Speaker 1: scouting in the summer and then hunting in the fall,
Speaker 1: and that's one thing that I've done, you know, pretty
Speaker 1: much most of my life. Thankfully, my dad got me
Speaker 1: get got got our whole family in the hunting, all
Speaker 1: my siblings and so we are very active in the outdoors,
Speaker 1: our entire family. And what we decided to do when
Speaker 1: we pretty much hit the age of graduating high school, UM,
Speaker 1: a lot of our Travis, my older brother, wanted to
Speaker 1: start a hunting company and he's like, man, we have
Speaker 1: some pretty neat experiences that we'd like to share with people,
Speaker 1: but we don't know anything about the filming side of things.
Speaker 1: So UM a lot of trial and error and we
Speaker 1: eventually UM started figuring out how to film our own hunts.
Speaker 1: Showing people online. YouTube has been our best success out
Speaker 1: of anything we've we've had hunting. Um, we've had hunting
Speaker 1: videos on Sportsman Channel and other places, but anybody that's
Speaker 1: bumped into us and said hey, I'll stuck and right,
Speaker 1: I love your videos, we'd asked them where are you
Speaker 1: watching our videos? And everything was directed to YouTube. So
Speaker 1: YouTube was our niche and it's really worked out for us.
Speaker 1: And so UM it's a passion that I love, my
Speaker 1: family loves, and we all enjoy it together. That's awesome.
Speaker 1: That's awesome. Let's chef gears here. Um, we've got some
Speaker 1: listening to questions people. Um, the guys, if you have
Speaker 1: questions that you want to be have read on Cutting
Speaker 1: the Distant podcast, go ahead and email them into us.
Speaker 1: I tell you the email, but since I'm sitting in
Speaker 1: for Jason, I can't quite remember it. But if you're
Speaker 1: a long time listener, um, you should probably know that
Speaker 1: that email. But anyway, first question is I want to
Speaker 1: travel to Idaho to hunt wolves, but I don't have
Speaker 1: any idea where you begin to looking for wolves. So
Speaker 1: for somebody that's that's coming in from out of state,
Speaker 1: or maybe somebody that's just new to hunting and just
Speaker 1: doesn't have a clue where they should even begin looking
Speaker 1: for wolves, what what would you recommend? What would be
Speaker 1: the first thing to do? The first thing I would
Speaker 1: do one that's a very good question. So there's not
Speaker 1: a lot of information out there and showing exactly the
Speaker 1: areas where wolves are at um. But the one thing
Speaker 1: I really would like to mention is most wilderness areas
Speaker 1: in Idaho have a high amount of wolves, So that
Speaker 1: is like a very good spot to start is those
Speaker 1: wilderness areas where it's you just don't have a lot
Speaker 1: of people getting out there and hunting the wolves out there,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. But for like actual information
Speaker 1: of like hey there's there's wolf packs here, there's wolf
Speaker 1: packs there, I highly recommend checking out F four WM
Speaker 1: dot org the Foundation for Wildlife Management UM. They're very
Speaker 1: up the date um where which units in Idaho have
Speaker 1: the most severe wolf populations and it changes every year
Speaker 1: because you know, they'll give a location and say, hey,
Speaker 1: this unit has a lot of wolves. So so a
Speaker 1: lot of people start focusing on that area. Then the
Speaker 1: following year year that area is not so much. But
Speaker 1: then now this area has been neglected and so now
Speaker 1: this area is high with wolves. And so that's a
Speaker 1: very good organization to get involved with. And you don't
Speaker 1: have to show up to the meetings or the banquets
Speaker 1: to be involved. It's good to just be a member
Speaker 1: of it UM. And then you get the newsletters, you
Speaker 1: get updated for wolf hunting, you know, wolf hunting tips um.
Speaker 1: And on top of that, if you are a member
Speaker 1: of that foundation, you can get reimbursed for your fuel
Speaker 1: expenses and another hunting expenses and you kill a wolf
Speaker 1: on the area that I live, it's up to a
Speaker 1: thousand bucks. I killed that white wolf recently. I gotta
Speaker 1: check from the foundation for a thousand bucks. So it's
Speaker 1: very helpful organization and for anyone who's trying to get
Speaker 1: into and get started, that is the place to really
Speaker 1: look into. Um is that. But the one thing I
Speaker 1: do want to mention with wolves versus any other species
Speaker 1: of the animals. You can drop a pin in an
Speaker 1: area with good mule you're hunting, and people can hunt
Speaker 1: it and they're still just good mule. You're there, But
Speaker 1: you drop up a pin for where a wolf pack
Speaker 1: is and you have just a couple of guys go in,
Speaker 1: the wolf pack will completely move out. And so UM,
Speaker 1: you have to be careful with that and following kins
Speaker 1: and find what people say where the wolves are, because
Speaker 1: where you where you're when you're you're pretty much at
Speaker 1: that point you're following people, you're not following wolves, and
Speaker 1: you're in your few steps behind. Now, if you could
Speaker 1: get a lead from somebody that um they have first
Speaker 1: intaels like, hey there's a wolf pack here, I haven't
Speaker 1: told anybody else but you before. That's a great lead
Speaker 1: to get, but leads you have to really be careful
Speaker 1: with those because you can get a lead that you know,
Speaker 1: somebody told ten other wolf hunters and yeah, it ends
Speaker 1: up there's being an shll you know, just doesn't work
Speaker 1: out well, right, But yeah, hopefully that would be that
Speaker 1: would be the direction. I go, Yeah, that's that's great,
Speaker 1: that's good intel Um. Question number two, what is the
Speaker 1: best time of year to hunt wolves? There's two years,
Speaker 1: two times a year that I really like, honey, Um, February.
Speaker 1: It's a really good time because just like the elk,
Speaker 1: the wolves, the wolves have a somewhat of a rut themselves,
Speaker 1: and so you have, um, you have males and females
Speaker 1: around the age of three breaking off from the pack
Speaker 1: and want to start their own start their own pack,
Speaker 1: and so they're on the move there, you know, meetings
Speaker 1: on their mind, and you can catch some wolves doing
Speaker 1: some stupid things and and actually howling. This time of
Speaker 1: the year is a very good it's very effective with
Speaker 1: because you got wolves trying to find wolves, so how
Speaker 1: I work really were good. The other time of the
Speaker 1: year I really like is the earlier in the fall
Speaker 1: the better. And they're very vocal and it's not necessarily
Speaker 1: be adults, but it's the young, the young pups. Um,
Speaker 1: the younger pups are are now, I mean pups from
Speaker 1: that spring are now full grown wolves. But they haven't
Speaker 1: had a lot of experience in the wild, and so
Speaker 1: they will hold out of the elk bagle, they'll hold
Speaker 1: out of kyle how there. You know, they're not the
Speaker 1: sharpest tool in the sheds yet, they haven't had a
Speaker 1: whole lot of experience. Um. So if you can get
Speaker 1: them howling, they're not just given the way their location.
Speaker 1: They're giving away the wolf packs location and so what
Speaker 1: you'll hear. And again this is about reading the pack.
Speaker 1: You can tell if the alpha male is because you see,
Speaker 1: if if the alpha male feels like there's no danger,
Speaker 1: he'll let the how continue in the pack that they
Speaker 1: want the young ones to learn how to howl. But
Speaker 1: if he senses there's danger, where you're going to hear
Speaker 1: is a lot of yipping at first, like a lot
Speaker 1: of howling, and you're gonna hear a bunch of barking
Speaker 1: and in and yelping almost like if you've I think
Speaker 1: we've all been around dogs when a dog gets hurt
Speaker 1: and hear you yelp. That's the alpha male biting the pubs,
Speaker 1: telling them to shut up pretty much. And so you'll
Speaker 1: hear this like it's also you hear this like Helle Frenzy,
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden you hear this here, it
Speaker 1: just goes quiet. And that happens a lot too, and
Speaker 1: you'll hear that. And when you hear that, he knows that, well,
Speaker 1: that alpha male knows something's up. And so he's he's
Speaker 1: he's not. I mean, it doesn't mean they're gonna leave,
Speaker 1: but he's onto you a little bit. So um. But
Speaker 1: when a wolf pack gives their location to me is
Speaker 1: just game on. And the other reason why I like
Speaker 1: early fall is you have very specific for me to
Speaker 1: weather is very important to me in wolf Honey success
Speaker 1: Um snow in the February. Sorry, but I am backtracking
Speaker 1: here a little bit. Hopefully I'm not too scattered. No, no,
Speaker 1: you're good, Okay, so February back to February. You have
Speaker 1: tracks the snow. That's why I love with snow. Wolves
Speaker 1: are lousy with leaving their sign behind. If there's wolves
Speaker 1: in the area'll know like an elk, you know, an
Speaker 1: elk or deer. There's been a very small spend area
Speaker 1: of very well, spend time in a very small area.
Speaker 1: A small timber pack or something. You could walk past them,
Speaker 1: I never know they're there. If you're close to a
Speaker 1: wolf pack within just a couple of miles, you're going
Speaker 1: to see wolf sign. Wolves travel so much ground. There's
Speaker 1: zigzag in. They're trying to jump, dear, trying to jump game.
Speaker 1: They leave a lot of foot a lot of tracks behind.
Speaker 1: Um should you track a wolf pack? I've done it.
Speaker 1: It's only worked for me once. But you gotta imagine
Speaker 1: if a wolf, if the wolf packs on a mission,
Speaker 1: you're not going to catch up to him. I followed
Speaker 1: wolf packs on snowmobiles six hour old tracks and I've
Speaker 1: never caught up to him with the snowobile. Um. They
Speaker 1: just they know they can move, they can move. Um. So,
Speaker 1: now going back to August, why do what? What type
Speaker 1: of weather? Why do I like the weather in August
Speaker 1: and September, even October. I actually have some good luck
Speaker 1: in October two. Um the heat. Heat really puts wolves
Speaker 1: in in very particular areas. Um. I think we're just
Speaker 1: most animals. Most animals don't like being in the heat.
Speaker 1: They find places the bed down during the day. Um,
Speaker 1: so it isolates wolves in some way. If you get
Speaker 1: a wolf pack, they're a little bit more isolated to
Speaker 1: stay in a spot during the daytime if it's nice,
Speaker 1: if it's really hot. They're not on the move, they're
Speaker 1: not traveling across the country. They're gonna stay there and
Speaker 1: stay bedded and they'll talk. That's something. So the other
Speaker 1: question I usually get is what time of the day
Speaker 1: wolves will talk. I could. It can be a hundred
Speaker 1: degrees and at noon, and I can get the wolf
Speaker 1: pack county. It's incredible. Yeah, and so I can get
Speaker 1: them howling. But that's remember I talked about don't talk
Speaker 1: too much. You just the couple to do a Hell
Speaker 1: you get them talking, just shut up. It's like, okay,
Speaker 1: you know where they're at, just try to make a plan. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's and there's a few areas that just seemed to
Speaker 1: be Um what I would call is rendezvous points where
Speaker 1: you just actually bump into these wolves every year in
Speaker 1: the same areas. You spend enough time hunting wolves, you
Speaker 1: all started to start realizing, Wow, although this this territory
Speaker 1: is huge, Like this wolf pack covers three square miles.
Speaker 1: For some weird reason, this one square acre. They just
Speaker 1: love it so much to spend more time in that
Speaker 1: one square acre than anywhere else on that mountain. And
Speaker 1: and there's reasons for that, um for sure. That was
Speaker 1: one of our questions. In fact, what is a rendezvous site?
Speaker 1: Because you know a lot of wolf hunters, you know,
Speaker 1: use that term, But if you don't know anything about
Speaker 1: wolf hunding, what is a rendezvous site? So there's a
Speaker 1: couple of different So the rendezvous site is pretty much
Speaker 1: a spot where they come back to UM and that
Speaker 1: could be for several different reasons. Um. Some reasons could
Speaker 1: be just the wolf pack is wolf pack is split
Speaker 1: up in their hunting, so there's a spot they'll all
Speaker 1: meet up during the day. There's also like a rendezvous
Speaker 1: point where um where they just meet each other. It's
Speaker 1: like a safe place like any time. It's like an
Speaker 1: emergency and escape place, right. So like let's say we're
Speaker 1: at the you know, we all were in high school
Speaker 1: once and they said they'd have the fire alarm go
Speaker 1: off and we all go to a safe place right
Speaker 1: where we all group up in case of a fire,
Speaker 1: in case there's danger. There's a place at these wolves
Speaker 1: would consider as a safe place some Sometimes this is
Speaker 1: a dense site. They'll actually go in hang out on
Speaker 1: the same dance site, even though they don't have a
Speaker 1: den anymore. They just found out that this place is
Speaker 1: so safe that they're willing to have pups there, So
Speaker 1: they're willing to go back. They're willing to go back
Speaker 1: and visit that spot. Um, I've seen this. This is
Speaker 1: where my success is happened in October. Where you know,
Speaker 1: some of these safe places, these rendezvous points are in
Speaker 1: the high elevation high mountains. Well, the majority of the
Speaker 1: game pulls down when you get the deep snow, but
Speaker 1: when you get the mule deer season, the rifle season,
Speaker 1: that elk rifle season kick in. It's just all of
Speaker 1: a sudden, the wolves going to a big panic because
Speaker 1: they followed the game down to a lower elevation. All
Speaker 1: the gunshots start going off on on deer and elk.
Speaker 1: And usually after two days, I'll go back in that
Speaker 1: same rendevous point up in the high elevation and the
Speaker 1: wolf packle single foul back up there to get away
Speaker 1: from all the hunting pressure. I So yeah, and so,
Speaker 1: like I said, a roundey brew point can be several
Speaker 1: different things. Um, some and even getting a little bit
Speaker 1: more in detail. But it can be a little bit
Speaker 1: more confusing. Is wolf packs do split up over time,
Speaker 1: you know, beings that they grow bigger, and you'll kind
Speaker 1: of have these wolf packs that are they're like together,
Speaker 1: but they're not. So you have like two different groups.
Speaker 1: Like We've had a pack that we were hunting and
Speaker 1: there was over a dozen wolves in that group. We
Speaker 1: were able to kill three out of there. Um. But
Speaker 1: then they when the winner came, they they split up
Speaker 1: and they were hunting different sides of them out. But
Speaker 1: then there's a time where they're all eventually meet back
Speaker 1: up together again in the same roundee brew point um.
Speaker 1: But they but that pack kind of splits off together.
Speaker 1: I mean, you get the point. You get so many
Speaker 1: numbers that it's actually it actually becomes the opposite of
Speaker 1: being effective in hunting. Got too many wolves in the area.
Speaker 1: It's just like you imagine when you have like a
Speaker 1: hunting group of six or seven people together and and
Speaker 1: you know you're actually doing more harm than good. You're
Speaker 1: not helping each other, you're just chasing animals away. So
Speaker 1: so they'll split up, they'll have they have places to
Speaker 1: meet back together again. Um. It's very fascinating to see
Speaker 1: those those rounde view points. How do you and I
Speaker 1: think the biggest question is how do you recognize a
Speaker 1: round even point. You will see areas where you'll you know,
Speaker 1: there's the places that always keep track of a is
Speaker 1: the areas where you'll see multiple tracks. You're always going
Speaker 1: to see tracks on the move. You can you can
Speaker 1: follow a trailhead, you can follow a gated road. You'll
Speaker 1: find wolves wolf tracks in the road. That doesn't mean
Speaker 1: they're going to cross that spot again, they're just passing through,
Speaker 1: they're making their routes. But then you'll hit this spot
Speaker 1: where it almost looks like you had a pack of wolves,
Speaker 1: not single file, but they're actually just playing there, just
Speaker 1: hanging out in an area, and it's almost like they've
Speaker 1: been hanging out there, not just for a day, but
Speaker 1: for a month. Right. And you see areas like that,
Speaker 1: drop a steak and pin and make sure to come
Speaker 1: back to that later because that is a spot they
Speaker 1: really enjoy hanging out. Um the spot that so where
Speaker 1: I killed that white wolf recently. That pack knows me
Speaker 1: very well, by the way, that was really hard to
Speaker 1: kill him. I was on, I was I was on
Speaker 1: that packs tail from the entire month of August. But
Speaker 1: I had to hunt them way differently than any other
Speaker 1: wolf pack I've ever hunted. Like they were the wisest
Speaker 1: of the wise, like I've called them in before they
Speaker 1: knew my calls. I had to change things up quite
Speaker 1: a bit. But here's the thing. I'd like to say
Speaker 1: it was six or seven years ago. There's just there's
Speaker 1: this little rock at the head end of the spasin
Speaker 1: and it's a random spot. There's this little rock, and
Speaker 1: one time my brother and I caught him beded on
Speaker 1: that rock and travel put a hole in a big
Speaker 1: female there. Um. Surprisingly enough, they love betting on that
Speaker 1: rock out of all the and it's a big like
Speaker 1: this pack. Their square miles is like their range is
Speaker 1: so big, it's like four square miles. But just because
Speaker 1: it's a little bit more migratory, there's there's a big canyon,
Speaker 1: you know, when when the snow flies you pull down
Speaker 1: really far, you know, and so do the wolves. Um,
Speaker 1: So this their territory is a little bit bigger. I'd
Speaker 1: say that most wolves. So it's kind of hard to
Speaker 1: really kinpoint where they're at. But when they're in this
Speaker 1: particular area, when the sun rises. They're bedded on that rock.
Speaker 1: It is the it is the craziest thing that right
Speaker 1: there is a randee brew point. That's really all meet up. Um.
Speaker 1: So hopefully that made sense, unless you want me to
Speaker 1: expound on that at all. Now that made perfect sense.
Speaker 1: That's awesome. Now you touched a little bit earlier on
Speaker 1: electronic colors, and that was that was our final questions.
Speaker 1: The question was, I've heard that wolves sometimes get wise
Speaker 1: electronic callers. In your opinion, is this true? So you
Speaker 1: talked a little bit about the misuse of an electronic color. Um,
Speaker 1: are there any other you know, things that you would
Speaker 1: um talk about as far as to be careful with
Speaker 1: an electronic color? Um? Yes, So just again, put yourself
Speaker 1: in the scenario the wolf pack, especially if you're I mean,
Speaker 1: if you're back in the wilderness area and these wolves
Speaker 1: have never heard how, Um, they're gonna they're gonna light
Speaker 1: up when they hear of wolf how on an electronic call.
Speaker 1: But if you do have an electronic call, remember, like
Speaker 1: wolves can pick up very unusual sounds, So if you
Speaker 1: have a little static or anything like that, it's game over. Um.
Speaker 1: The one thing I've noticed with the electronic calls to
Speaker 1: is not just the fact they'll remember. So so okay,
Speaker 1: let me back up a bit. So usually when I
Speaker 1: kill a wolf pack, when when I'm trying to call first,
Speaker 1: it's they'll come in pretty easy, right, I'll use a
Speaker 1: dying rabbit and they'll come running in and shoot them.
Speaker 1: You will never be able to call that wolf pack
Speaker 1: him at that same dying rabbit call ever again. Never.
Speaker 1: But if you had to read, you can call that
Speaker 1: pack again. They remember that recording. Yeah. Um, same with
Speaker 1: the hell. If you use the how electron to call
Speaker 1: the first time, you might flul him once, but you're
Speaker 1: not going to feel a foom a second time. If
Speaker 1: they do how back at you, it's a warning. How Okay,
Speaker 1: it's almost like it's got the electronic has almost like
Speaker 1: a sound wave signature that's very distinct or something. Yes,
Speaker 1: and so here's and then I'll bring up the example
Speaker 1: of the wolf pack I was recently hunting, the one
Speaker 1: where I killed that big white one recently. Um, so
Speaker 1: I get in there early August, I find the pack,
Speaker 1: I'm like, sweet, there where I want them? And I
Speaker 1: got up on the it's you know, it's brushing up here.
Speaker 1: But you do the best you can. I got up
Speaker 1: on this ridge top and I did catch a glimpse
Speaker 1: of one of them down there, and it's just like
Speaker 1: I could tell they're bedded in there, and I was
Speaker 1: just like, oh, man, Like, I'm on the top of
Speaker 1: this ridge, I have a long range gun. This package
Speaker 1: just bedded right at the head of this canyon. I
Speaker 1: could shoot anything from here. Well, they never came out.
Speaker 1: Soon was going over there. I'm like, all right, I've
Speaker 1: called this wolf packing before. I've called a man with moose,
Speaker 1: I've called a man with a fond stress. And I
Speaker 1: was like, I'll just try something different. So I used
Speaker 1: something different on the electronic call. And when I ran
Speaker 1: that call, they ran as fast as they could away
Speaker 1: from me as possible. They just ran complete out of
Speaker 1: the canyon. Now, and this is a call I never
Speaker 1: used on before. Is do they have other wolf funny pressure. No,
Speaker 1: it's a long, long, long, long long ways back there.
Speaker 1: I mean it's it's at the point where, like if
Speaker 1: I was el Cunting, you're definitely need horses and mules.
Speaker 1: The reason the only reason why I'm not that far
Speaker 1: back on foot is because it's a wolf. I could
Speaker 1: just get it out and pack the hideout. But it's
Speaker 1: a long ways back. And so I was like, so
Speaker 1: it came to the point, at least on this pack,
Speaker 1: Rice stopped packing like trying to call, period, and it
Speaker 1: just only used mouth calls and the and the demeanor
Speaker 1: of the wolf pack was way different the way I
Speaker 1: was running. I mean, they still weren't like they're still
Speaker 1: really hesitant to come in, but their demeanor was way different.
Speaker 1: They weren't running out of the canyon. You know, they
Speaker 1: still hang around. They'd held back. I can get close. Um.
Speaker 1: And then I did end up having a whoopsie. I
Speaker 1: would have had a wolf earlier, but it was my fault.
Speaker 1: I had a little whoops of Yeah. I'm sure you
Speaker 1: saw that post of my face all bleeding. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: that's that's the day I want. I want to forget.
Speaker 1: But I think we just learned from our mistakes. So
Speaker 1: I actually just to explain the situation to everybody. So
Speaker 1: my brother, so we were getting ready for my brother
Speaker 1: in law's she hunt in southern Idaho, and and I'm
Speaker 1: still on this wolf cake. I'm trying to pattern this
Speaker 1: wolf pack, figure them out. The other thing I was doing.
Speaker 1: I want to bring up to is I wasn't putting
Speaker 1: a lot of Like wolves, they sense people pressure really quick,
Speaker 1: and so I had it like I go in there
Speaker 1: and hunt, and then I have to back out for
Speaker 1: a couple of days, and you know, if I pushed
Speaker 1: too hard to would leave the canyon and so, but
Speaker 1: they really liked it in there. So I just I
Speaker 1: knew that if I just was patient of just backed out.
Speaker 1: Any time I felt like I was giving him too
Speaker 1: much pressure, I back out and then moved back in later.
Speaker 1: Um So, anyways, my brother borrowed like that window. I didn't.
Speaker 1: It wasn't unting um. Travis was borrowing that particular a
Speaker 1: gun shooting thousand yard plates. I was like, hey, can
Speaker 1: I borrow it? I need that for wolf funds because
Speaker 1: I just got my long range gun and I headed
Speaker 1: it haven't dialed in yet, and so it was like,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, yeah, here you go. You can use the
Speaker 1: three PRC. So I'm like, sweet, I take it in
Speaker 1: there and I have a eye go in there and
Speaker 1: I'm using the um uh, I guess we'll talk about later.
Speaker 1: But the prototype the wolf howler and I move around
Speaker 1: the corner and I have a wolf standing on a
Speaker 1: log at a hundreds at seventy six yards and I
Speaker 1: just dropped right to my belly and I was just like, man, like,
Speaker 1: the wolf is really calm. I can tell he's not
Speaker 1: running off. He's just standing on the log and I'm like, man,
Speaker 1: I gotta make this shot count, like I've been really
Speaker 1: hunting this pack hard. And I shoot and he just
Speaker 1: trots off like what moral And and as I I
Speaker 1: was scratching my head, I just felt my face just
Speaker 1: got wet. I'm like, that's bad news. And I scored myself.
Speaker 1: So yeah, it was just a bloody mess. I'm like
Speaker 1: trying to see where the wolf's running. I'm trying to
Speaker 1: white blood out of my eyes. So like, this is
Speaker 1: so rookie, Like why am I? Did this happened to me?
Speaker 1: I feel like such a rookie right now. Um. But
Speaker 1: the reason why I scored myself is I had my
Speaker 1: pack on and it was just plump full of year
Speaker 1: and it was pushing on my head when I was
Speaker 1: prone positioned to shoot the wolf, and I was like
Speaker 1: not even thinking of it, like oh yeah, like I
Speaker 1: was pushing my head forward, but no big deal. So
Speaker 1: that's why I scoped myself. But I still felt like, oh, man,
Speaker 1: I was a solid rest by that wolf tip over.
Speaker 1: When I looked at my scope and the and the
Speaker 1: the gun was still dialed up to a thousand yards,
Speaker 1: I dialed down me. I dialed it down zero to
Speaker 1: and I just heard the click and I just cried. Oh.
Speaker 1: You know, I was like, and I knew you trying. Man.
Speaker 1: I knew it was my fault too. So I mean,
Speaker 1: our family is all about like, when you're done shooting
Speaker 1: a gun, make sure to turn the scope down, you know,
Speaker 1: in the amoy and then it's just like but at
Speaker 1: the same time, usually before you leave the truck, you
Speaker 1: check that stuff too, you know, make sure everything's down.
Speaker 1: So I could blame my brother all I want, but
Speaker 1: yet I should have checked before I left the pick up,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean again to rocking mistakes at once,
Speaker 1: and it was just painful to see that on the wolf.
Speaker 1: But um, but then just then I went on that
Speaker 1: ram hunt that she punt with a brother in law
Speaker 1: and Southern Idaho killed a great ram. Then I came
Speaker 1: back and um, and then killed that white wolf in
Speaker 1: the same area. So that was told a little redemption there. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: Well what a heck of a season. Oh man. So
Speaker 1: contrast from back in the day when there was a
Speaker 1: lot of game that was plentiful where you live versus now,
Speaker 1: is have the wolves put that much of a dent
Speaker 1: in the population of ungulates? Yeah? And it really hasn't.
Speaker 1: It actually kind of started along the Montana side of
Speaker 1: the Idaho border. That was one of the places I
Speaker 1: saw what really happened first. Now I want to also
Speaker 1: give just a slight background of other predators we have
Speaker 1: to We have mountain lions, we have grizzly bears, black
Speaker 1: black bears. We have a lot of predators that run
Speaker 1: our landscape. And um, the image mountain lions yet yeah
Speaker 1: I think I did. Yeah, yeah, mountain lions too. Um.
Speaker 1: But you wouldn't see like extreme impacts like you would
Speaker 1: on a like a wolf pack would do. You know,
Speaker 1: you would see the dear aplation dip a little bit.
Speaker 1: And our family was always taught about predator matchments, so
Speaker 1: we were always active with that. But the wolves were
Speaker 1: like next level when it came to when they moved
Speaker 1: into an area. You see, you it was hard not
Speaker 1: to see the impact they made. Um, And it really
Speaker 1: started for me. It was back in true thousand like
Speaker 1: two thousand eleven is when I really started to see
Speaker 1: a huge impact with both numbers. Um in one of
Speaker 1: a spot that I would consider like a childhood favorite
Speaker 1: where I've been hunting this this area for years. There's
Speaker 1: the same elk WLOI oak, always used the same trail systems.
Speaker 1: It's just you know, there's a lot of timor there's
Speaker 1: a lot of brush, so it can be difficult to
Speaker 1: hunt elk. But our families hunted that country our whole life,
Speaker 1: and so um in some way it felt like a
Speaker 1: routine for us every single year. You know, this is
Speaker 1: where the elk are the earliest part of the year,
Speaker 1: mid mid season, late season, and then if you never
Speaker 1: had a chance to see that big bowl, you you
Speaker 1: you pick up the sheds, you know, And I think
Speaker 1: that's what's really need about elk hunting, or just hunting
Speaker 1: any animals with antlers in general, is just the mystery
Speaker 1: when you find that elk shed or that mule deer,
Speaker 1: that monster mule there bug man like you live on
Speaker 1: this mountain? Where do you live? And that was what
Speaker 1: always drove me to hunt the Timber country, was that
Speaker 1: mystery animal that nobody else saw you know, we're we're
Speaker 1: I mean there was elk and mule deer that would
Speaker 1: die of old age and that was special to us
Speaker 1: in some way, where you'd have these old deer that
Speaker 1: would live on the mountain with us. Um. Now, did
Speaker 1: we ever have an overpopulation problem with elk, mule deer
Speaker 1: or moose. No, we never did. We have a lot
Speaker 1: of vegetation for them to eat, and we have other
Speaker 1: We have predators like I mentioned, mountain lions, grizzlies, black bears, coyotes.
Speaker 1: We got a lot of predators up here, and so
Speaker 1: we don't have an issue with have in a lack
Speaker 1: of predation. Um. But anyways, when the wolves first came in,
Speaker 1: it was back two thousand eleven and I was actually
Speaker 1: taking my sister at that time, Tanna was in college,
Speaker 1: and she needed a white tail to fill her freezer. Like, well,
Speaker 1: here's a good spot where I've been seeing multiple white tails.
Speaker 1: And I took her in there and the wolves were
Speaker 1: howling in their heart, and so I took her in
Speaker 1: there and I had the privilege to shoot my first wolf.
Speaker 1: That was the first season they ever opened wolf Hunt Team. Um.
Speaker 1: It was that two thousand eleven and I shot my
Speaker 1: shot wolf the first day I went in there and
Speaker 1: and I called it in. It was pretty easy, just
Speaker 1: because they've never had hunting pressure before. But then that
Speaker 1: was one of the first aha moments when I realized
Speaker 1: how quick they wise up two calls and in that
Speaker 1: same pack. I had them how multiple times in several
Speaker 1: different occasions, and I was never able to get another
Speaker 1: shot on a wolf um. So it was that was
Speaker 1: just like it really made scratch my head. I'm like,
Speaker 1: how are you supposed to manage this predator if I
Speaker 1: don't know how to kill him? And but that area
Speaker 1: is sad to say, but that area no joke, not
Speaker 1: I'm not even exaggerating. Two years later, you could not
Speaker 1: find a milk track in there. Two years later after
Speaker 1: the wolf pack moved in there, and it and I'm
Speaker 1: not trying to exaggerate what I what I witnessed, but
Speaker 1: I felt like it was a plague where every drainage
Speaker 1: that a wolf pack would move in, the wildlife would
Speaker 1: move out, and it just kept happening. It's just like,
Speaker 1: why does this keep happening? And you know you have
Speaker 1: to turn a blind eye to not recognize it. I mean,
Speaker 1: but we go in the wintering range. Like I said,
Speaker 1: I love shed hunting. You go on these wintering ranges
Speaker 1: and you're finding carcasses of animals that can't make it.
Speaker 1: You know, even what they would say, the sick in
Speaker 1: the week. I mean, these are mature elk that aren't
Speaker 1: past their prime. But when you get that deep snow
Speaker 1: that's chest high in the in the months of February March,
Speaker 1: when of snow you got that hard snowpack, the wolves
Speaker 1: float right on top of the snow. And according to
Speaker 1: our wildli biologists locally here, they say that's when most
Speaker 1: of the damage is done. Um, any shed hunter out
Speaker 1: there knows what I mean by like when at the
Speaker 1: very like around the time you're picking up sheds, the
Speaker 1: animals are so exhausted that they, you know, that same
Speaker 1: bowl that would elude you all archery season, all of
Speaker 1: a sudden he's standing there staring at you. And it's
Speaker 1: not because he's stupid, he's exhausted. He's he's trying to
Speaker 1: make it through the last part of winter. I don't know,
Speaker 1: have you experienced that at all? Yeah, yeah, absolutely, I've
Speaker 1: seen the same thing. You know, that that same disappearance
Speaker 1: of game. You know, I've had um it's the same
Speaker 1: exact story. And I had a different part of Idoh
Speaker 1: than you. And you know, at one time we had
Speaker 1: plentiful game in different areas, and now um are when
Speaker 1: we start seeing wolves and and uh in my part
Speaker 1: of the country, and when they started seeing a decline
Speaker 1: of animals was quite a bit earlier than what you
Speaker 1: guys had saw. Where I where I was hunting, was
Speaker 1: where they actually the first wolves in Idaho were planted,
Speaker 1: and so we we saw the effects a lot earlier.
Speaker 1: And some of the areas they whether that whether they
Speaker 1: had eaten ailk or driven them out so hard that
Speaker 1: to this day, I mean I first started seeing the
Speaker 1: first effects and probably two thousand four, two thousand five,
Speaker 1: And to this day there's some drainages that still don't
Speaker 1: have any elk tracks. And I go always go back
Speaker 1: because I love the country. You know, there's always the
Speaker 1: romanticism to go back to the places you once loved
Speaker 1: and and still walk in those places and hunt help.
Speaker 1: But I go back to this this last summer and
Speaker 1: did a lot of scouting and there's still not a
Speaker 1: single elk track in those places, and um, it's crazy,
Speaker 1: and a lot of it has. You know, the habitat
Speaker 1: has improved. We've we've had a lot of burns um
Speaker 1: since the wolves have been there, you know. And there's
Speaker 1: been a lot of proponent proponents of wolves and they're like, well,
Speaker 1: you know it's habitat related. But ge whiz. I mean,
Speaker 1: we've got we've got a lot of fantastic habitat now.
Speaker 1: And still it's almost like they they they prune back
Speaker 1: the population elk past having any seed to replenish these
Speaker 1: some of these places. So yeah, it's going to take
Speaker 1: a long long time for it to come back. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I'm hopeful, you know, with the right kind of
Speaker 1: predator management, you know, aggressive predator management. You know that
Speaker 1: we're never gonna just kill off wolves in Idaho. Um.
Speaker 1: I don't think there'd be any way to do it
Speaker 1: at this point. Um. But so, but with a pretty
Speaker 1: aggressive predator management system, maybe we can keep the numbers
Speaker 1: low enough to where the elcander have a chance and
Speaker 1: the moves too. So yeah, well no, and that we're
Speaker 1: already seen it too where we live. Um. Thankfully, we
Speaker 1: have a very dedicated hunters and trappers in our area,
Speaker 1: mostly trappers, and I think out of our area we
Speaker 1: probably have. I'm gonna say yeah, I would say we
Speaker 1: have some of the best trappers in Idaho just right
Speaker 1: where we live. If you actually look at the unit
Speaker 1: I live in, we have the highest wolf harvest and
Speaker 1: I know that the majority of it is from three trappers.
Speaker 1: And and so they are really putting a smack down
Speaker 1: to the point one. And again I'm not going to
Speaker 1: stay any names because some of these guys they like
Speaker 1: staying in the downlow. Um. But some of these guys
Speaker 1: are so good they can trap out an entire pack
Speaker 1: in a long time. And I am finally, to this day,
Speaker 1: finally starting to see a rebound in our elchemy ole deer.
Speaker 1: Now are the wolves gone. No, There's always one or
Speaker 1: two wolves that that move in and they try to
Speaker 1: start a new pack, and it just it pretty much
Speaker 1: just keeps the trappers occupied, some of them or against
Speaker 1: the point we're like, man, I I actually kind of
Speaker 1: like I think it's like any hunting where you start
Speaker 1: getting addicted to specific species you're hunting or trapping, you
Speaker 1: kind of start wanting more. And I think a lot
Speaker 1: of trappers are worried to say that. But some trappers
Speaker 1: I know they've got they've they've learned to enjoy wolf
Speaker 1: trapping so much that they all sometimes they slip up
Speaker 1: and say kind of would like to have more wolves.
Speaker 1: Like I was like, well, let's hold off for a bit.
Speaker 1: How is our moves doing, how's our elk doing? How
Speaker 1: how is our deer doing? Okay, yeah, you're right, they're
Speaker 1: not that good right now. It's like, yeah, we need
Speaker 1: to stay on it. So um but yeah, I and
Speaker 1: here's the thing too, I can't tell you how many
Speaker 1: times I, as an elk hunter, have been ambushed by
Speaker 1: wolf pack multiple times, multiple times. Um. One time it
Speaker 1: was just the perfect timing where I I'm stuck three
Speaker 1: wolves with my oh wow. And and that was again.
Speaker 1: I was still through the learning curve at that time.
Speaker 1: I was just trying to fill my elk tag and
Speaker 1: I went eighteen days without getting an oak bugle, and
Speaker 1: I just pounded the mountains one mountain drain you know,
Speaker 1: one drainage after another, and there was just one particular
Speaker 1: area where there was just a like it just seemed
Speaker 1: to hold big bulls, like the quality was good. You know,
Speaker 1: there was a really popular um kicker genetics where you'd
Speaker 1: get a six by six but then you get kickers
Speaker 1: out of the side, which you make it a seven.
Speaker 1: And that area had that type of genetics. So it
Speaker 1: was always an area that drawed me, you know there
Speaker 1: and um I went in there in hopes to get
Speaker 1: an oak view, and I got into some elk tracks,
Speaker 1: but nothing was talking. That's another thing you learned it
Speaker 1: with el because if there is elk inneria with wolves,
Speaker 1: they tend to stay quiet a little bit longer because
Speaker 1: they know when they give away their location, the wolf
Speaker 1: pack moves in. Oh, we mean me being just trying
Speaker 1: to find an Elk. I'm I'm Bugle and I'm Kyle calling.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to get an Elk to answer. Well, guess
Speaker 1: what happened? The whole wolf pack surrounds me, and I
Speaker 1: have one trotten at me, right at right towards me,
Speaker 1: and I just pulled back my bow. By the time
Speaker 1: I got an arrow in its chest, it was it
Speaker 1: was just a couple of steps away. It was really close,
Speaker 1: and he took off. He took a couple of leaps,
Speaker 1: tipped over and I on. At that moment, I was
Speaker 1: in so such thick brush that I thought that was
Speaker 1: the only wolf. And then after I see that wolf
Speaker 1: tip over. The whole pack came out looking at it
Speaker 1: and just trying to figure out what's going on. The
Speaker 1: wolf pack was just as compute as as I was,
Speaker 1: but I just knew as another opportunity. So I knocked
Speaker 1: another arrow, pulled back, and I stick another wolf and
Speaker 1: it died, I mean out one died really quick. It
Speaker 1: yelled and just tipped over. I was like, holy crap,
Speaker 1: because I can't believe this is really half and and uh.
Speaker 1: I knocked a third arrow, and at that point the
Speaker 1: wolves are really confused and they balanced. I saw two
Speaker 1: other wolves. One disappeared. There's another one right there close
Speaker 1: to me, still still about twenty yards and I stuck
Speaker 1: it and it ran in the brush too. Um. So
Speaker 1: the unfortunate thing is the third one I was not
Speaker 1: able to find. But I stuck him good and I
Speaker 1: saw the blood worn out, so I mean it was
Speaker 1: a good shot. He ran in the brush somewhere and
Speaker 1: died in some hole. But it was kind of raining too,
Speaker 1: and it was really hard to follow that blood trail. Um,
Speaker 1: but I was I did successfully pull two out of
Speaker 1: the three that I stuck out of the woods there. Um,
Speaker 1: but that was kind of a nerve wracking experience in itself.
Speaker 1: But I think, I mean, honestly, that's what really got
Speaker 1: me in the wolf hunting. I just started. I think,
Speaker 1: as most people feel, they just just got so sick
Speaker 1: and tired of dealing with this. You know. I moved
Speaker 1: back to my hometown because I loved the areas so much.
Speaker 1: I love the mountains, I love the moose. We pull
Speaker 1: some incredible moose out of here if like one of
Speaker 1: our friends drew a tag or one of a family member,
Speaker 1: we pull some great bulls out of here. Um sheds.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I can even talk about how many
Speaker 1: moose shes that we still have. We still have the
Speaker 1: proofs in the pudding. Um. The only moosees we've kept
Speaker 1: are all the ones under bone that are over Boone
Speaker 1: and Crockett, and man, we have a pile of Boone
Speaker 1: and Crockett bull moose from just our area. UM. So
Speaker 1: really there was a lot of moose. Let's just say
Speaker 1: they're actually one of the first to go um in
Speaker 1: my opinion, just because they're a little bit more of
Speaker 1: a they're not as adaptable as elk and other animals.
Speaker 1: So I feel like the moose were the first to
Speaker 1: go when the wolves came through. Um, but anyways, yeah,
Speaker 1: it just it took that much. It just just hunting meal.
Speaker 1: They're hunting elk and just getting no results anymore like
Speaker 1: I used to. And I was just I felt like
Speaker 1: I was always on the tail of a wolf pack
Speaker 1: and find me I'm just like enough enough how to
Speaker 1: do something about something. And I felt like any wolf hunter,
Speaker 1: really skilled wolf trapper that I know right now, they
Speaker 1: were once really skilled elk hunters. It's just everybody that
Speaker 1: has that were anybody that I know that's so passionate
Speaker 1: about wolf or that they were so passionate about olk hunting.
Speaker 1: They've just all turned into being really good wolf hunters,
Speaker 1: just just out of spite of what's happened, you know.
Speaker 1: I think I think we all want to bring back
Speaker 1: what we used to have. And and some people say,
Speaker 1: is it well, is it that we have an extra
Speaker 1: amount of hunters? No, I actually think we have less
Speaker 1: hunters now than I remember as a kid. Um, I
Speaker 1: think so. And I think the reality is there's it's
Speaker 1: not good hunting here. Most of the locals that I
Speaker 1: know that are cutters now don't hunt here. They travel.
Speaker 1: What I see, like I bumped in two guys the
Speaker 1: other day from Texas. I felt bad for him. I
Speaker 1: felt bad. He's just like he's putting on miles and
Speaker 1: he's in a he's in a wolf hub. I'm telling you, like,
Speaker 1: like he is, if I have an elk tag here,
Speaker 1: that's the last place I would go. And he has
Speaker 1: pounded that mountain and he's like, man, I'm going to
Speaker 1: find an elk. I'm like, oh boy, you you you
Speaker 1: can have this mount to yourself. My friend. I was like,
Speaker 1: you're not out cut back here, Like no, I'll both
Speaker 1: find back here. That If that gives you a hint, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: But anyways, it's just I'm starting to see and I
Speaker 1: guess we could talk a little bit more about this,
Speaker 1: but I am starting to see a little bit of
Speaker 1: a rebound come back. Yeah, so that's great. Yeah. Um,
Speaker 1: now you've told me before, um about calling wolves. Mhmm.
Speaker 1: You had to kind of get a little bit tricky,
Speaker 1: had to try to improvise and try new methods, new sounds,
Speaker 1: new new things to call in wolves instead of you know,
Speaker 1: it's been my experience trying to call wolves. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: let's face it, I'm a major novice at it. Um.
Speaker 1: Every time I'm elk hunting and I hear wolves howling, Uh,
Speaker 1: I start howling back, and and I haven't howl anny
Speaker 1: in yet. They'll they'll howl till the cows come home.
Speaker 1: But and then I'll kind of use some like maybe
Speaker 1: some calf and distress type sounds, but I just never
Speaker 1: have had any close a distance. Um, what made you
Speaker 1: kind of decide to to mix things up and try
Speaker 1: some different sounds until you've kind of figured out what
Speaker 1: wolves like. Well, A lot of it is just I
Speaker 1: was really passionate about it. I'm a sucky trapper, and
Speaker 1: so I'm like, Okay, all I have is to be like,
Speaker 1: I'm a really good hunter, but I'm a sucky trapper,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, I feel like the only way I
Speaker 1: can benefit to people or to to this area is
Speaker 1: to to hunt wolves, and to hunt them when the
Speaker 1: trapping season is not around, because the trapping season is
Speaker 1: very small, it's very short window, and I feel like
Speaker 1: I can do a lot of good if I can
Speaker 1: figure it out. Um. A lot of it was talking
Speaker 1: to some Canadians that have hunting wolves in the past,
Speaker 1: but also, surprisingly enough, a lot of what I learned
Speaker 1: about hunting wolves is is the same as I would
Speaker 1: hunt a herd bull olk. Um. There's just some things
Speaker 1: like you know, if you're from a distance and you're
Speaker 1: calling in a herd bull, sometimes he's gonna run from you.
Speaker 1: Sometimes he's not really going to acknowledge you. He he
Speaker 1: deems you as a threat in some way that you're
Speaker 1: trying to take his cows. But if you can get
Speaker 1: in that window of his territory where you're just close
Speaker 1: and he feels like he can't run anymore, he comes in. Um.
Speaker 1: That was one of the first things that I did
Speaker 1: that was really helpful with wolves, is you get him howling.
Speaker 1: But yeah, the one thing you always have to think about,
Speaker 1: and the one thing I always had to think about
Speaker 1: is I'm not just running calls aimlessly. I'm trying to
Speaker 1: put myself in a scenario and put myself in their head.
Speaker 1: I know, I know this sounds funny to say, like
Speaker 1: or cliche like be like the wolf, you know, but
Speaker 1: you literally are. You're trying to create a scenario for
Speaker 1: that wolf. I think it's very ineffective if you had
Speaker 1: an electronic call and you have wolves and you try
Speaker 1: to run a dying moose and it's like, oh, that's
Speaker 1: not working. Let's run a dying deer. But that's not working.
Speaker 1: Let's run a dying elk. That's not working. Let's run
Speaker 1: a dyeing rabbit. By then you just wised up that
Speaker 1: wolf pack so much you're never gonna have a right right.
Speaker 1: So those are natural sounds of nature. Like all of
Speaker 1: those one after another in the same little spot. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like hunt. So yeah, there's a there's a dying faun,
Speaker 1: a dying elk, there's a wolf hellowing, all in the
Speaker 1: same spot. How weird is that? Like wolves kick that
Speaker 1: stuff up really quick. They know, like you said, that's
Speaker 1: not what happens in nature. You have to make things
Speaker 1: natural for them. Um. One of the first things I
Speaker 1: tell people is like, when people ask, well, what calls
Speaker 1: you use, I'm like, for prejator calls, Well, I asked them, like, well,
Speaker 1: what animals do the wolves eat in your area? You
Speaker 1: don't want to use the dyeing moose if there's no
Speaker 1: moose in the area, right, You know what I mean? Like,
Speaker 1: you try to customize your calls to the area. That's
Speaker 1: one of the first things that I've taught myself as
Speaker 1: a customize two. When it comes to calling, you've got
Speaker 1: to remember that wolves don't like other wolves that are
Speaker 1: that are endangered to the area. Wolves are always in
Speaker 1: war with wolves. The one thing that the environment mentalists
Speaker 1: are right about is wolves are very similar to people.
Speaker 1: That's true, and that's from you know, they have the
Speaker 1: family dynamic, but all so they're at war with each other.
Speaker 1: It's almost like people like back in the day with
Speaker 1: people in villages and wolves are trying to take other
Speaker 1: other wolves territories. These things happen all the time. So
Speaker 1: when you're howling wolves, a lot of the howling you're
Speaker 1: getting back is warning house they get out of our territory,
Speaker 1: this is our territory. But they're too afraid to come
Speaker 1: in because they know that if they come in too close,
Speaker 1: they're going to start a war with another wolf pack.
Speaker 1: So they're kind of stand offish. And so that's probably
Speaker 1: the biggest thing that most people get is they held
Speaker 1: back and the wolves don't come out. Every so often
Speaker 1: you get a dummy that will walk out and get shot.
Speaker 1: But usually if you're howling from a distance, they don't
Speaker 1: just come running in wagging their tails that they'll they'll
Speaker 1: usually you know, you can set up in a wide
Speaker 1: open spot you're calling the wolf pack, and they will
Speaker 1: hold up right at timberline and never poke their head out,
Speaker 1: and they will howl and it'll sound like there's a
Speaker 1: hundred of them, But you know they're actually doing that
Speaker 1: on purpose or trying to make themselves sound like even
Speaker 1: if there's three or four dogs in the pack, they're
Speaker 1: going to try to make themselves sound like there is
Speaker 1: over a dozen. They're trying to be as aggressive as
Speaker 1: they can. They're trying to chase you out, say look,
Speaker 1: we're a big pack, get out of our territory. Move on.
Speaker 1: And so a lot of people when they're howling, they
Speaker 1: really don't know what the vocals me either, you know,
Speaker 1: like you don't know like if you hear a wolf healing,
Speaker 1: you gotta know what is that wolf saying? Is he
Speaker 1: is he warning me? Is he warning the pack? Or
Speaker 1: is he saying? Hey, how you doing? You know there's
Speaker 1: there's that like friendly how where it's like it's not aggressive,
Speaker 1: it's not a warning how it's just saying hey, as
Speaker 1: it going, And you've got to know what the hells
Speaker 1: are to know what you need to do next, And
Speaker 1: and so a lot of what my success came through
Speaker 1: is understanding the dynamic of a wolf pack and understanding um,
Speaker 1: the sounds and what they need. Because if I hear
Speaker 1: a warranty, how then I know I need to be
Speaker 1: a little bit more aggressive. I need to get in there.
Speaker 1: In a lot of cases, like I was saying with
Speaker 1: the herd bowl, I move in quiet and I just
Speaker 1: sneak in, stop howling, getting as close as I can,
Speaker 1: and then start barking and yipping right in their territory
Speaker 1: and sometimes you can get them to come in. Also,
Speaker 1: it's even nice to do that with a predator call um,
Speaker 1: where you get really close you know you have so
Speaker 1: they can't put that tune two together where if you
Speaker 1: how let's say you got located yards away right, Um,
Speaker 1: you've got on halling so you you know their location,
Speaker 1: know where they're at. You move in there. You're getting
Speaker 1: close to the points where you do feel really uncomfortable,
Speaker 1: where you're like, man, you you can feel it, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. You feel that you're getting close
Speaker 1: to the pack. Um, stop run a couple of little
Speaker 1: prayer of calls. Less calling the better, Like if it's
Speaker 1: a dying rabbit or if it's a fun running for
Speaker 1: thirty seconds and just stop and just stay still if
Speaker 1: they're Sometimes you have wolves that are you have you
Speaker 1: have the pack, but then you have wolves on the
Speaker 1: outside of the pack that aren't howling. And sometimes if
Speaker 1: you try to get yourself too close, you're gonna bump wolves.
Speaker 1: Doesn't mean they're afraid, they're just they may not know
Speaker 1: what you are and they may be a little confused. Um,
Speaker 1: But you just want to try to play it safe.
Speaker 1: If you try to get as close as you can,
Speaker 1: set up, try to do a little prayer of call
Speaker 1: thirty seconds, stop nothing, try to move in a little
Speaker 1: bit closer and and like worst case scenario if you
Speaker 1: if you move in, you're just really scratching your head
Speaker 1: and you don't know where that wolf pack is. Try
Speaker 1: to throw one really quick how and try to get
Speaker 1: them to walk and again see where they moved to.
Speaker 1: But but in a lot of cases when when I
Speaker 1: did that, they would just come running in like it
Speaker 1: was a dinner bell, and it was almost like you
Speaker 1: didn't have time to grab the gun off the tree.
Speaker 1: You set the gun on the side, you run a
Speaker 1: payer of call for thirty seconds. The majority of the
Speaker 1: wolves I have killed, like after I do my last call,
Speaker 1: within seconds, not minutes. If a wolf is ready to
Speaker 1: come into your call, you don't have to wait long
Speaker 1: for it. The longest it took for wolves to ever
Speaker 1: come into my call was six minutes. That was a
Speaker 1: very long time for me, and I almost got up
Speaker 1: and left because I had one wolf already spot at
Speaker 1: me when I moved in. I was I tried, like
Speaker 1: I was telling you this whole scenario moving in, I
Speaker 1: moved in, I bumped the wolf alreadio was like crap,
Speaker 1: and the pack was still helding another um. I'd like
Speaker 1: to say it was about a quarter mile and I
Speaker 1: was like you like the same good um. But it's
Speaker 1: still it took them six minutes to get to me,
Speaker 1: and but they're at a very low trot when they
Speaker 1: came in. But besides that, most wolves, it's just they
Speaker 1: come in running fast, your dinner bell when you when
Speaker 1: you do the right calls that they want to hear,
Speaker 1: especially a dying animals. I mean, it's it's no brainer
Speaker 1: for them. Why would they be hesitant unless they've been
Speaker 1: shot at before with those calls? Okay, Um. The one
Speaker 1: thing that I always tell people is there's a lot
Speaker 1: of wolves that aren't wised up, and this, this, and
Speaker 1: that technique is very effective, and just moving in, get
Speaker 1: as close as you can and prayer call the thing
Speaker 1: is without the how though, you'll never know their location.
Speaker 1: It's not like kyo hunting where you can sit yourself
Speaker 1: out in a desert and just expect to run a
Speaker 1: prayer to call, inspect a kyo to show up. Wolves
Speaker 1: aren't like that. There's not wolves. There could be a
Speaker 1: lot of wolves in an area, but it doesn't mean
Speaker 1: they're just scattered among the landscape. They're all together in
Speaker 1: a group and you can I'd say, um, similar our
Speaker 1: wolves are their territories about fifteen by fifteen square miles
Speaker 1: or sometimes even twenty square miles or sorry, not square mole,
Speaker 1: but like twenty twenty miles, which would be like I'm
Speaker 1: not doing the math right right now in my head,
Speaker 1: but I mean over two hundred square miles and then
Speaker 1: making sense. Um, so a territory is really big for
Speaker 1: a wolf pack. And so I say that the biggest
Speaker 1: challenge you're going to face while trying to find wolves
Speaker 1: is finding them period. The final wolf pack is your
Speaker 1: biggest challenge. I mean twelve dogs can do a lot
Speaker 1: of damage to an area. So in two hundred square
Speaker 1: miles even three hundred square miles, a dozen wolves can
Speaker 1: really mills mess up in milk population in there. Um.
Speaker 1: So I think the reason why there's not as many
Speaker 1: wolf unders as there is other hunters because it is
Speaker 1: so challenging. You really have to put an extra for
Speaker 1: effort to find a wolf pack and the pursue and
Speaker 1: kill one. But I'll tell you this, it is the
Speaker 1: biggest high you'll ever get take in the woods. It's
Speaker 1: there's nothing like it. I literally, I'm telling you right
Speaker 1: now there that I had an elk tag in my
Speaker 1: area this year, and the first week of archery elk season,
Speaker 1: I chose the wolf hunt. Wow, that's how addicted I
Speaker 1: am to it. It's like, why am I not elk hunting?
Speaker 1: And then when I killed that white wolf, I was like,
Speaker 1: all right, let's get back into elk hunting. I tried
Speaker 1: a couple of days and I was like, you know what,
Speaker 1: I'm just not getting into it. I want to go
Speaker 1: back wolf And I was like, how about this. I
Speaker 1: will elk hunt in an area where there's wolves. That way,
Speaker 1: if an elk doesn't come in. A wolf comes in,
Speaker 1: you know. And that's when I killed that that young
Speaker 1: six point. I went in there and I bumped in
Speaker 1: the wolf tracks, and I actually, I think, because wolves
Speaker 1: are on my mind, I actually thought it was a
Speaker 1: wolf coming running in because it came in quiet. Um.
Speaker 1: I let off a bugle, um, phelps helps bugle the renegade, right,
Speaker 1: the big one. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, man, the renegade.
Speaker 1: Just one bugle a mile from the pickup, and I
Speaker 1: heard the woods come alive and I was literally looking
Speaker 1: at a wolf track when I bugled. I was like,
Speaker 1: I thought it was a wolf pack, and um, that's
Speaker 1: six point and a and another young bull came out
Speaker 1: on the gated road and was staring at me, and
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, this is too easy. Knocked a narrow.
Speaker 1: As I knocked my arrow, he turned broadside for me. Holy.
Speaker 1: I was like, okay, okay, this is too easy. I
Speaker 1: gave him one, and yeah he didn't he didn't go far.
Speaker 1: So no, I was super grateful. And then two days
Speaker 1: later I caught up to that wolf pack and that
Speaker 1: was a different wolf pack. Um, so yeah, I think
Speaker 1: I just listening to you talking. You and I have
Speaker 1: talked a lot in the past, and I think there's
Speaker 1: a lot of similarities to calling elk and calling wolves.
Speaker 1: You know, you we'll kind of break it down. Okay,
Speaker 1: you have to locate elk to call one in, right,
Speaker 1: so from a distance you're gonna locate an elk um
Speaker 1: or a wolf. You know, located wolf from a distance. Okay,
Speaker 1: Then once you've located him, get in close. You know,
Speaker 1: we're typically we don't try to call in an elk
Speaker 1: clear across the big canyon unless you know. Most of
Speaker 1: the time you're you're trying to close the gap. So
Speaker 1: same with a wolf. You know, once you get him
Speaker 1: talking and say, okay, I know where they're at, put
Speaker 1: the calls away, get over there, get close. I do
Speaker 1: the same thing like when I'm I'm creeping in on
Speaker 1: a bowl and like I start getting that little funny
Speaker 1: fee and like, man, I'm I'm gonna bust him here
Speaker 1: any second. You can feel it. And you said the
Speaker 1: same thing about you know, getting in position for calling wolves,
Speaker 1: you know, get in close to where you're almost thinking
Speaker 1: you're gonna bust him, and then set up and then
Speaker 1: uh um, then do some calling. Now elk calling sometimes
Speaker 1: I call a little a lot. Sometimes I call it
Speaker 1: a little just kind of depending on the situation and stuff.
Speaker 1: But um, like you said, uh, call a little bit,
Speaker 1: you know, thirty seconds or so and get ready and
Speaker 1: if nothing happens, move on. Whereas ELK sometimes we'll call
Speaker 1: for a while and then maybe just kind of wait
Speaker 1: for maybe thirty minutes because it may take a bowl
Speaker 1: a little bit longer to kind of come in quiet
Speaker 1: or whatever. Um. But so there's are some similarities and
Speaker 1: but some differences too, But I can see the allure.
Speaker 1: I'm not a patient person by nature, and uh, I
Speaker 1: really like, you know, the thought of things happening a
Speaker 1: lot quicker. Um as far as calling in a wolf,
Speaker 1: you know, um, sometimes I get a little bit impatient
Speaker 1: on elk Um. So um that that sounds really fun
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna definitely definitely pencil and some time to
Speaker 1: go wolf hunting a wolf calling You kind of let
Speaker 1: the cut out of the bag a little bit there
Speaker 1: when you said prototype wolf howler. So I don't know
Speaker 1: if I'm supposed to talk about this, Jason, if you're listening,
Speaker 1: don't fire me, but uh, fire me right. We didn't
Speaker 1: have you sign an NDA or anything. But last last
Speaker 1: was it last fall or last winter. UM, I sent
Speaker 1: you a message a video of me blowing on a call,
Speaker 1: and you're like, yeah, that don't sound that right a
Speaker 1: wolf howler. And I'm like, okay, okay. So I kept
Speaker 1: messing with this um wolf howler, and uh, I was
Speaker 1: sitting around my house here getting kind of bored, and
Speaker 1: and I took that mouthpiece off our easy bugle or
Speaker 1: bugle tube, and I put that on one of our
Speaker 1: other smaller bugle tubes of plastic tube, and I started
Speaker 1: cutting it here and there, and I cut this, and
Speaker 1: I cut that, and then I start experimenting with different
Speaker 1: thicknesses of latex on that easy bugler to where I
Speaker 1: finally got it to work. It sound like a pretty
Speaker 1: good wolf foul. And you're like, yeah, that don't sound
Speaker 1: too bad. I'm like, all right, I'm gonna send you on.
Speaker 1: So I sent you one up there and to try
Speaker 1: it out. And and in your opinion, what do you
Speaker 1: think did it? Does it sound right? Does it sound good? Yeah?
Speaker 1: And wolves have all different you know, like young younger
Speaker 1: wolves have their their own volume. UM, older ones have
Speaker 1: their own volume. I feel like it's kind of in
Speaker 1: the middle. I like it. Yeah, I like it quite
Speaker 1: a bit. I don't feel like you want one that's
Speaker 1: too like low like a heifer cow. You get that,
Speaker 1: you know, the really low alpha. Hell yeah, that's that
Speaker 1: really scared as other wolves out, you know, like that's
Speaker 1: if you get like a little bit more of a
Speaker 1: younger wolf foul it sounds, it's it's less intimidating. Um.
Speaker 1: I like it because it's just so convenient packing in
Speaker 1: the back country too. I actually throw that one now
Speaker 1: in my pack while I'm elk hunting. It's it's no
Speaker 1: extra weight, it's hardly any way, you know, just throwing
Speaker 1: the bag and in case we get bumped into a
Speaker 1: wolf back, that sucker gets pulled out and I start
Speaker 1: held them. Um yeah, I mean literally right when you
Speaker 1: sent that to me, that was it. A week after
Speaker 1: I it was so funny to tell you that story
Speaker 1: where I held and one just came running in almost
Speaker 1: to the pickup. Yeah, that's crazy. It was so mind
Speaker 1: blown to me. So I get this prototype to try
Speaker 1: and usually when you get out of pick up, it's
Speaker 1: like the same with the elk bugle, Right, you throw
Speaker 1: a bugle from the pickup. You never know if there's
Speaker 1: ones close by. It was like wolf foul, and I
Speaker 1: knew it was an area where wolves run often, but
Speaker 1: I still had a few miles that go from the
Speaker 1: pickup before I on the wolf. So I throw how.
Speaker 1: I hear how up the canyon. I'm like, huh, well,
Speaker 1: I'm getting my pack on, my gun still in the ring.
Speaker 1: All of sudden you hear the how close. We're like,
Speaker 1: oh crap, I need to get that gun out. So
Speaker 1: I get the gun out and locked the pickup and
Speaker 1: I just started running up the canyon. And I still
Speaker 1: thought I had a long ways ago. And then I
Speaker 1: heard the how up close, and like, oh, shoot, it's
Speaker 1: right there. And and then the wind switched and was
Speaker 1: blowing right toward its direction, and then it stopped. I
Speaker 1: was like, huh, that's weird. U. I mean, obviously if
Speaker 1: it smelled me, and smelled me, I'm sitting there walking.
Speaker 1: I looked right behind me, and the pickup is still
Speaker 1: in sight. By the way, if I look behind me,
Speaker 1: I left behind me, and the wolf is standing in
Speaker 1: the trail right behind me, right And by the time I,
Speaker 1: you know, tried to we you know, pull the gun
Speaker 1: out to shoot it was it already darted off in
Speaker 1: the timber um. But that was my first experience with that,
Speaker 1: with that prototype. Is that wolf right there? And no,
Speaker 1: it's it's definitely versus you know, like I was telling
Speaker 1: this recent wolf pack I was working on. The demeanor
Speaker 1: was so different um when I was using that hell.
Speaker 1: But here's the thing. So I did shoot at that
Speaker 1: wolf with that hell and that doesn't help any you know,
Speaker 1: when just wising up the pack. Unfortunately, I know, I'm
Speaker 1: always telling people, don't wise at the pack, don't wise
Speaker 1: at the pack. And then I miss a wolf of
Speaker 1: my crap. I wised up the pack. Yeah, and they
Speaker 1: were still vocal. So that so I'll tell you, do
Speaker 1: you want the story of the white Wolf? I didn't.
Speaker 1: I didn't go full beto. Yeah yeah, let's let's hear it. Okay, okay.
Speaker 1: So so the day I get back from the ram hunt,
Speaker 1: and you know, I'm like, I just wolf was still
Speaker 1: in my mind. I felt like I had to redee myself.
Speaker 1: I still had that. I still had that scab on
Speaker 1: my head and like, come on, I gotta make this right.
Speaker 1: This is the pack. I really want it. Anyways, I
Speaker 1: can't tell you how many Elk families taken out of
Speaker 1: that drainage. So we go there Tanna. Tanna, by the ways,
Speaker 1: that because I'm Adam, was hunting with us. So Tanna,
Speaker 1: you know, flew from Alaska home to Idaho and as
Speaker 1: as I okay, back up a little. She wanted the wolf,
Speaker 1: and so I just dropped her tons of pins to
Speaker 1: places of tribe. I'm like, stay away from this area.
Speaker 1: This is my area. You can only go in there
Speaker 1: with me, Like that's a pack I've been working on,
Speaker 1: you know. And so I was so a senator to
Speaker 1: these other places, you know, to try out. And then
Speaker 1: finally I was like, okay, you can try that area,
Speaker 1: but I think of grizzly. She met a grizzly and
Speaker 1: she backed out in the dark or something kind of
Speaker 1: spooked her, and so like, okay, I'll go with you.
Speaker 1: You know, um it's a pretty high infestive grizzly place too.
Speaker 1: But anyways, so we get in there and I forgot that,
Speaker 1: you know, well I didn't forget, but Elsie's started seeing
Speaker 1: there's people everywhere in the mountains and and there's usually
Speaker 1: is a camp there right at the head end where
Speaker 1: I usually get into the wolves. So I kind of
Speaker 1: messed up my whole hunt in some way having those
Speaker 1: elk hunters in there like shoot, and so I'm said,
Speaker 1: they're scratching my head. And this was actually kind of
Speaker 1: a god given or just a just a fluke, but
Speaker 1: I was We're about ready to leave, and we were
Speaker 1: just driving away from where I normally start hiking, and
Speaker 1: a wolf crossed in front of us, and I was like,
Speaker 1: whoa okay, and we jumped down to hold the whole
Speaker 1: pack line. I'm like, whoa okay. So that these that
Speaker 1: all the elk hunters were packed in in the back country,
Speaker 1: it pushed the wolves out. Yeah, so, and so we
Speaker 1: were we had so we had the wolf pack located,
Speaker 1: and I was running that howler. Um. But the thing
Speaker 1: is that I mean beans that they've already I've been
Speaker 1: messed with before. They weren't really I could tell. I
Speaker 1: could already hear their howls. And my sisters like, we
Speaker 1: need to go in there. I'm like, no, Tanna, that
Speaker 1: those are warning howls. We need we need to do
Speaker 1: something differ in here. So I actually, um, we went
Speaker 1: around the wolf pack, Tanna said, at their escape route,
Speaker 1: and I came back down. I just told her. I
Speaker 1: was like, just stay there. You got shooting lanes. As
Speaker 1: the wolf pack runs past you, you're gonna have some
Speaker 1: pretty good shots there. And I'm just gonna move up
Speaker 1: the gut of the canyon and and try to held
Speaker 1: my way up. And what happened when I moved up
Speaker 1: is I split up the pack. Yeah, and so, so
Speaker 1: part of the pack went one way, the other pack
Speaker 1: went another way. So when I met it back up
Speaker 1: a tann we came back down. I mean, there's this
Speaker 1: old there's this old older road in it's not maintained.
Speaker 1: And I hit that road and you could see tracks
Speaker 1: going both ways where they were held that morning, but
Speaker 1: you could see there were some young ones that went
Speaker 1: one way and the other other way. Um and so,
Speaker 1: and this is kind of this reminds me back of um,
Speaker 1: you know what happens like sometimes if you split up
Speaker 1: a herd and olk hered, but the herd bulls and
Speaker 1: all that alarmed. But what like for me, maybe it's
Speaker 1: happened to like doesn't the elk sometimes the bowl doesn't
Speaker 1: loop around trying to round up the cows. Yeah exactly, yea,
Speaker 1: So that's kind of what happened here. So we split
Speaker 1: up the pack and I was just like, well, Tanna,
Speaker 1: like the majority of the trucks are going up the road,
Speaker 1: so I had that direction. There is a spot where
Speaker 1: they'll hang up the canyon there and I throw a
Speaker 1: how every so often did I just mainly just walking
Speaker 1: up the road and just around the corner. He came
Speaker 1: back around the corner of that that that old Brushton
Speaker 1: road and a point blank and I just shot Redemption.
Speaker 1: And I think he was the alpha. And the reason
Speaker 1: why I see that is because, um, well you see
Speaker 1: all the tracks when you're going up the road, and
Speaker 1: you can see there's one track that's just unusually large.
Speaker 1: You know, It's like that's the other thing. Some people
Speaker 1: say like, well, how do you know alpha? Well, sometimes
Speaker 1: you can just tell based on the tracks. If you're
Speaker 1: falling the pack, you can see the alpha track. You
Speaker 1: can see just one track is just unusually bigger than
Speaker 1: the rest of the pack. And and that's the one
Speaker 1: I killed. I killed the one with the unusually large
Speaker 1: track that was with the pack. And he was a
Speaker 1: big dog. He's a really big dog, and so I
Speaker 1: mean he's the effish and game actually couldn't even get
Speaker 1: the tooth out of him. You see that that usually
Speaker 1: in the case, I get the teeth are really in
Speaker 1: there because you know how they get rid of a
Speaker 1: bear tooth, how they take a bar tooth out to
Speaker 1: age it, and the wolf tooth to the fishing game
Speaker 1: couldn't get it out. And usually that's that means like
Speaker 1: an older mature wolf, those teeth are so set in
Speaker 1: they won't come out. So um, so he's definitely got
Speaker 1: some age to him how to get him aged. But yeah,
Speaker 1: he's a beast. That's awesome. That's awesome. If you could
Speaker 1: leave your our listeners. Uh, with one last closing thought,
Speaker 1: maybe one one piece of advice for someone who wants
Speaker 1: to get into calling wolves, what would that be? Um?
Speaker 1: Get out, just be ready to hike over lots of
Speaker 1: country you want. You remember I said, how like you
Speaker 1: got to be like a wolf in some way. Now
Speaker 1: I can't. I can't walk as fast as a wolf,
Speaker 1: but you gotta be willing to put on some miles. Um.
Speaker 1: But I think the other thing to say to and
Speaker 1: and getting into wolf hunting is the hunt smart. It's
Speaker 1: it's so hard to find that balance. And I know
Speaker 1: some really skilled elk hunters that are just and you
Speaker 1: probably know these guys too. They're just too aggressive and
Speaker 1: and they're the type of guys that actually doesn't like
Speaker 1: their type of mentality, and hunting wolves doesn't work because
Speaker 1: they're just too aggressive. Um and but it works for elk.
Speaker 1: But then also there's the opposite where you're too safe
Speaker 1: and you don't kill a wolf either. So it's good
Speaker 1: to just play a smart. I mean, I'm always on
Speaker 1: the attack mode. I always want to when I get
Speaker 1: a wolf pack hell, and I'm I'm there to kill
Speaker 1: them that day. I'm not saying that, Oh, I'm mark
Speaker 1: working on them. Maybe I'll come back tomorrow. I'm like, no,
Speaker 1: I hear them today, I know where they're a I'm
Speaker 1: gonna go in there and kill them. But plays smart
Speaker 1: the winds blowing bad back out even if you know,
Speaker 1: like you don't want to wise up the pack. I
Speaker 1: just if they can, if they can relate your hell
Speaker 1: to that scent, will never come into your hell again.
Speaker 1: I'll never come to that call again. It's the same thing.
Speaker 1: Like I mentioned before, I can't tell you how many
Speaker 1: times I kicked myself because I was too anxious to
Speaker 1: get into the wolf pack, even on a bad wind
Speaker 1: that I knew I could have avoided. We're just starting
Speaker 1: to swirl, and it's like I should have just stayed
Speaker 1: out a little bit longer, waited for my wind to
Speaker 1: stable itself and then mess up the pack and then
Speaker 1: never having that opportunity against um. So hunt smart. I
Speaker 1: don't want to say hunt smart, not hard. Hunt both
Speaker 1: hunt smart and hard um, but be willing to put
Speaker 1: in some time. It takes some time to learn about
Speaker 1: the pack they're hunting. And it's not always about learning
Speaker 1: how to hunt wolves. It's it's about learning how to
Speaker 1: hunt the particular pack you're after. So if there's a
Speaker 1: pack your particularly after, you want to learn everything about
Speaker 1: that wolf pack you're after, because they gained different habits
Speaker 1: in the wolf pack next door, right, and so learning
Speaker 1: about that particular I guess. The same thing with the
Speaker 1: herd bull, you know, Like I've like that big bull
Speaker 1: I killed three years ago because he was different than
Speaker 1: any ok, and so I had I can't I could
Speaker 1: use the same routine that I would do another elk.
Speaker 1: I had to customize my hunt and to kill him
Speaker 1: that bowls. Same thing with wolves. Learn learn to adapt,
Speaker 1: be willieve to adapt, improvise and have fun doing it. Yeah, well, man,
Speaker 1: I love it. That's that's some great, great information. I
Speaker 1: find it fascinating and I think a lot of our
Speaker 1: listeners are gonna love this. Tom Um, you have an
Speaker 1: educational platform that teaches people tips and tactics and wolf
Speaker 1: hunting and then a lot of other animal hunting to um.
Speaker 1: Once you briefly tell us about that real quick before
Speaker 1: were wrapping it up, Yeah, absolutely so I do. I
Speaker 1: started a Wolf Huny master class and it's it's a
Speaker 1: very thrill course. Um. When I first created the course,
Speaker 1: I wanted to be very affordable for people because I
Speaker 1: knew it was going to be a challenge. But after
Speaker 1: I put in so much time and money and creating
Speaker 1: this course and making it big like, it's actually turned
Speaker 1: out bigger than I thought. And so even the the
Speaker 1: the tech lady that that created the website for me,
Speaker 1: she told me I needed to charge a good price
Speaker 1: for it, and but as cheap as I can make it.
Speaker 1: I made it four seven bucks. Um. So far, I've
Speaker 1: had really positive reviews on that Wolf Honey master Class,
Speaker 1: and and the positive thing about it too is you'll
Speaker 1: get your money back if you kill you know, you
Speaker 1: kill a wolf, and if you're signed up with the
Speaker 1: foundation for wildlife management. You'll make that money and turn
Speaker 1: on top of that the first worth at UM I've
Speaker 1: sold first for over five bucks, and the skull you
Speaker 1: can get between a hundred hundred fifty bucks too. So
Speaker 1: um so one wolf will pay for the course and
Speaker 1: then you you know knowledge. It's just it. It was
Speaker 1: one of the most painful learning curves. I'll be honest,
Speaker 1: I'd say it took me four years. So I really
Speaker 1: started getting that a HU moment where we're like, Wow,
Speaker 1: this is working, like me going out there and killing wolves,
Speaker 1: this is actually working. And now it sounds like I
Speaker 1: gave a lot of information on this podcast, I actually
Speaker 1: have given very little. Um Like, there's a lot of
Speaker 1: information on the wolf Honi Masterclass. Hours and hours of
Speaker 1: video footage where we go over maps, show where wolf
Speaker 1: packs like to live, um, we go over sounds, wolf sounds, vocalizations,
Speaker 1: several different scenarios that are effective UM calls, so on
Speaker 1: and so forth. So there's a lot of information. I
Speaker 1: highly recommend checking that out. UM Again, it's worth it.
Speaker 1: I even had a really positive review. It was one
Speaker 1: of my favorite reviews so far. We're had this long
Speaker 1: time wolf trapper say that he bought this course being skeptical,
Speaker 1: and then after the course he says, man, I'm glad
Speaker 1: I spent the money and I'm really excited the wolf
Speaker 1: lind And I was like, that is like one of
Speaker 1: my That's what I like to hear. Ye, And and
Speaker 1: I want and I got more information to add as well. Two.
Speaker 1: I'm always doing what I can to add more information
Speaker 1: to the course. Um. So and if anybody has additional questions,
Speaker 1: you can always ask me on Instagram. Was stuck and
Speaker 1: right and ask you know, if there's anything that you
Speaker 1: don't see on the course, for free to ask and
Speaker 1: I'll I'll get it on there. Um. But then another
Speaker 1: thing I've been too is is getting um getting other
Speaker 1: experienced woolf unders involved in the course. Oh yeah, people
Speaker 1: that have different experiences and different techniques and hunting wolves
Speaker 1: than I do. Um. That's very important to me, especially
Speaker 1: in areas outside of timber country because we're a hunt
Speaker 1: in heavy timber country. We have friends at hunt Southern
Speaker 1: Idaho where it's really open stage brush and they're very
Speaker 1: successful wolf hunters. I've got them involved in that side
Speaker 1: of the wolf funding master class where they teach about
Speaker 1: that their experiences. Um, but in the and you start
Speaker 1: realizing that there's a lot of similarities between our techniques
Speaker 1: and tactics and how to hunt them. Okay, but but yeah,
Speaker 1: so that's with that. Yeah, so that's the Wolf Funning
Speaker 1: master Class. Dot com is where you can find that. Then,
Speaker 1: and then I do also have a mule Deer master
Speaker 1: class as well, which has uh actually been very successful
Speaker 1: as well. I've been really pleased with how how that
Speaker 1: turned out. But a lot of that comes with our
Speaker 1: experience and hunting mule deer in the timber. It's a
Speaker 1: different challenge that a lot of people haven't experienced before. So,
Speaker 1: so those two classes, but yeah, the main the main
Speaker 1: one just means that we're on the wolf topic. Um
Speaker 1: that will funding master class would be the one to
Speaker 1: check out. Excellent, excellent, And where else can they find you?
Speaker 1: On social media? What what? It's stuck in the rut?
Speaker 1: So yes, so stuck in the rut, um, stuck with
Speaker 1: an end the rut. We have the YouTube channel Instagram.
Speaker 1: I do have a TikTok. Actually we have a big
Speaker 1: following on TikTok. But I'm I'm pretty uh tie them
Speaker 1: what I can do on TikTok. Yeah, I get I
Speaker 1: get in trouble a lot on TikTok. We Yeah, the
Speaker 1: censorship is really bad. I could hurt. Like if I
Speaker 1: have a gun on my belt or a pistol on
Speaker 1: my belt, they flag it. So that's like pretty much
Speaker 1: every outdoor video said that makes it challenging, but we
Speaker 1: still Yeah, so so I went to focus on that.
Speaker 1: Instagram is actually the easiest way to reach out to me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean YouTube. A lot of people love our YouTube videos.
Speaker 1: It's just we get so much comments and a lot
Speaker 1: of I mean a combination of people that support, but
Speaker 1: you also get a lot of the world too. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so it's hard to really keep track of of hunters
Speaker 1: and non hunters on the comments on the YouTube. Instagram
Speaker 1: is the easiest for me, Tom, I can't tell you
Speaker 1: how appreciative I am for you coming on to night talking.
Speaker 1: I know it's late at your at your house, and
Speaker 1: it's late at my house too, so um, thank you
Speaker 1: so much for coming on. And uh maybe we'll be
Speaker 1: able to get you on again here one of these
Speaker 1: days and and talk about some more wolf wolf hunting stories. Yeah, absolutely,
Speaker 1: I love talking about it. Thanks again, awesome, Thank you
Speaker 1: so much,