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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to Coast to Coast George Nori with you

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Speaker 1: with doctor Robert Lustig as we talk about your nutrition

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Speaker 1: and keeping you alive. Doc, let's get right into some

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Speaker 1: of this again. We were talking about processed foods and

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Speaker 1: on a one to ten with ten being the worst.

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Speaker 1: How bad is a processed food system? Well, first of all,

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Speaker 1: there are different levels of processing. My colleague doctor Carlos

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Speaker 1: Montero down in Sal Paulo, Brazil, developed a classification system,

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Speaker 1: so think of it this way. Class one would be

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Speaker 1: an apple coming right out of the ground, okay. Class

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Speaker 1: two would be apple slices mechanically dispersed. Class three would

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Speaker 1: be say, apple sauce, where it's been pulverized and possibly

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Speaker 1: some sugar has been added. Class four would be an

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Speaker 1: apple drink where the fiber has been removed and all

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Speaker 1: sorts of other things have been added too. So different

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Speaker 1: levels of processing. What the day to show is it's

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Speaker 1: that class four, that ultraprocessed food category where different foods

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Speaker 1: have been added together that never existed in nature, usually

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Speaker 1: more than five ingredients at a time. That's the class

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Speaker 1: that's the class that causes disease. The other three not

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Speaker 1: so much. But that class four, that's where all the

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Speaker 1: disease is hiding. What about something like salami or something

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Speaker 1: like that. So salami is a processed food. Also, it

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Speaker 1: has nitrates which cause colon cancer. It's not as bad

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Speaker 1: from a metabolic standpoint, but it is problematic from a

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Speaker 1: cancer standpoint. And you know, if you die of cancer,

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Speaker 1: it's you know, just as bad as if you die

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Speaker 1: from heart disease. Absolutely, fill an issue, geez. So nutrition

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Speaker 1: has a lot to do with fighting off all these problems. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: it has everything to do with fighting off these problems. Basically,

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Speaker 1: here's what you need to know whether of food is healthy.

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Speaker 1: You know, the FDA, the USDA, they all have different

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Speaker 1: definitions of what is healthy. I'm going to give you

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Speaker 1: a new definition of what is healthy. And I explain

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Speaker 1: in the book exactly why this works and the empirical

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Speaker 1: evidence support it. Two things, two precepts. Six words protect

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Speaker 1: the liver, feed the gut, like the liver from the

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Speaker 1: onslaught of sugars, of omegas, six fatty acids of iron,

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Speaker 1: of glyphosate, of heavy metals, branch chain, amino, acids, lucin ice,

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Speaker 1: lucin valine, transpats. But feed the gut, feed the gut.

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Speaker 1: What Well, turns out they like fiber. They like soluble

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Speaker 1: and insoluble fiber. And that is what's been taken out

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Speaker 1: of process food because you can freeze fiber. Try it.

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Speaker 1: Take an orange, put it in your freezer, take it

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Speaker 1: out the next day, put it on your kitchen counter.

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Speaker 1: Try to eat it. See what you get? You get mush?

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Speaker 1: Why the ice crystals, master rate the cell wall, allow

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Speaker 1: all the water to rush in? Hey, food industry knows that.

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Speaker 1: What do they do? Squeeze it and freeze it now

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Speaker 1: at lasts forever. Now it's frozen concentrated orange juice. Now

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Speaker 1: they can sell it on the commodities market because it's

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Speaker 1: storable food, no depreciation. They make boatloads of money. And

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Speaker 1: guess what you get sick. Some people aren't getting COVID

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Speaker 1: and they're not vaccinated and they're just not getting COVID.

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Speaker 1: Knock on wood, I'm one of them. What are we doing? Well?

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Speaker 1: One thing is the NIH and the CDC have appropriately

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Speaker 1: identified masking, hand washing, and social distancing all correct. They

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Speaker 1: have missed the fourth thing, the fourth leg of the stool,

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Speaker 1: the food. So there are three groups aside from the elderly,

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Speaker 1: three demographic groups that have increased morbidity mortality with relation

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Speaker 1: to COVID number one, people of color, number two, the

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Speaker 1: obese number three, pre existing conditions, all these diseases of

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Speaker 1: metabolic syndrome we've been talking about. And what do those

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Speaker 1: three share in common ultra process food consumption. So why

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Speaker 1: does ultras process food cause, you know, lead to COVID

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Speaker 1: morbidity immortality? Three reasons. Number one, the insulin. The high

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Speaker 1: insulin from the insulin resistance insulin increases the expression of

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Speaker 1: the receptor on your cells called ACE two, which is

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Speaker 1: what the COVID virus uses as the portal for injecting

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Speaker 1: its RNA to take over your cell. More ACE two's

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Speaker 1: more chance for morbidity immortality. Number two, soluble fiber i

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Speaker 1: mentioned is metabolized by your calonic bacteria into short chain

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Speaker 1: fatty acids butterate propionate. These are immune suppressive. They keep

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Speaker 1: the cytokine levels down and so you don't overwhelm your

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Speaker 1: immune system and you can actually withstand being infected with

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Speaker 1: COVID to a mild degree. And then finally, number three diabetes.

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Speaker 1: High blood glucose causes crystallizes around that ace to opening

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Speaker 1: and allows that virus to inject even greater amounts. So

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Speaker 1: the three things that process food does are the three

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Speaker 1: things that cause COVID to increase. So chronic disease increases

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Speaker 1: your risk for acute disease. What would you say the

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Speaker 1: single worst thing that process food has done to our food? Well,

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Speaker 1: to be honest with you, it's done a lot of things,

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Speaker 1: but I think the single worst thing that it has

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Speaker 1: done is it has caused this massive increase in demand

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Speaker 1: and shift. You know, Alzheimer's disease used to be relatively rare.

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Speaker 1: When I was an pathology class as a second year

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Speaker 1: med student in nineteen seventy eight, Alzheimer's disease was so

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Speaker 1: rare that there was one paragraph in the pathology text

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Speaker 1: about it. We had the only cadaver with Alzheimer's disease

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Speaker 1: in the entire class, and I even did a term

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Speaker 1: paper on it. And now Alzheimer's disease is twenty percent

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Speaker 1: of all people who reach age sixty five. So the

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Speaker 1: question is where did that come? And the answer is

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Speaker 1: it's the insulin resistance at the level of the brain.

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Speaker 1: It's mitochondrial dysfunction at the level of the brain. And

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Speaker 1: when you fix that, when you fix the food, you

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Speaker 1: can actually improve cognition. You can actually reverse some of

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Speaker 1: the cognitive decline. My colleague, doctor Dale Breticon, who was

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Speaker 1: at my book party just yesterday and we were discussing

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Speaker 1: this as new data, and he's going to be publishing

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Speaker 1: as shortly. He wrote the book The End of Alzheimer's

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Speaker 1: and you know it's it's all about the food. It's

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Speaker 1: all about the food. Well with doctor Robert Lusty, good doctor.

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Speaker 1: When I was born, I was about six pounds six ounces.

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Speaker 1: Now a lot of kids are eight pounds, nine pounds,

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Speaker 1: ten pounds. Why have they gotten bigger? So in fact,

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Speaker 1: four separate studies US, South Africa, Israel, Russia we now

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Speaker 1: newborns now weigh two hundred grams a half a pound

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Speaker 1: more on average than they did twenty five years ago.

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Speaker 1: People say, well, that's better nutrition. No it's not. It's

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Speaker 1: because of fetal insulin resistance. It's because the sugar crosses

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Speaker 1: the placenta and causes liver fat in the fetus, driving

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Speaker 1: increased insulin, therefore increasing the amount of liver fat and

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Speaker 1: body fat as well, and we have the DEXA data.

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Speaker 1: We have the liver ultrasound data in newborns to show

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Speaker 1: that these kids are born sick. Interesting, this is that's

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Speaker 1: fascinating studies. Yeah, it's it's and you know what, if

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Speaker 1: you're born sick, you stay sick. Remember that old song.

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Speaker 1: Just a spoonful of sugar makes the medicine go down.

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Speaker 1: It also makes the blood pressure go up. How bad

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Speaker 1: is sugar anyway, it's pretty bad. It wasn't the worst

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Speaker 1: thing in our diet. Transpats were the worst thing, but

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Speaker 1: we finally figured that out. It only took twenty five

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Speaker 1: years for the FDA to finally get rid of them,

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Speaker 1: after everybody got clogged arteries and stuff like totally. You know,

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Speaker 1: we first realized the transpats were an issue in nineteen

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Speaker 1: eighty eight, and actually Fred Kumero knew it in nineteen

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Speaker 1: fifty seven, and he was suppressed by the food industry.

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Speaker 1: So we've got the first real data in nineteen eighty eight,

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Speaker 1: and it wasn't until twenty thirteen that the FDA finally

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Speaker 1: banned trans fats from our diet. So transplats were the worst.

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Speaker 1: Now sugar is losing weight how important is that from people?

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Speaker 1: So losing weight makes everybody happy, right, except your liver. Ultimately,

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Speaker 1: it's what's going on in your liver that matters. Now,

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Speaker 1: sometimes losing weight will cause some liver fat loss too.

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Speaker 1: I'm not saying that losing weight is bad. It's not

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Speaker 1: bad at all. It's good. But ultimately it's the loss

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Speaker 1: of the liver fat that matters. We did a study

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Speaker 1: at UCSF where we gave forty three kids with metabolic

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Speaker 1: syndrome a diet with very low sugar and substituted with

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Speaker 1: high starch. We did a starch for sugar exchange. These

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Speaker 1: kids didn't lose any weight on purpose. We gave them

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Speaker 1: a scale and every day if they lost weight, we say,

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Speaker 1: eat more. In order to keep their weight constant, we

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Speaker 1: took the sugar out of their diet. We took the

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Speaker 1: pastries out, we put the bagels in, we took the

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Speaker 1: sweetened yogurt out, we put the baked potato chips in,

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Speaker 1: we took the chicken teriyaki out, we put the turkey

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Speaker 1: hot dogs in. Okay, so we didn't give them good food.

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Speaker 1: We gave them a lousy food. We gave him ultra

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Speaker 1: processed food. We gave him kid food, food kids would eat,

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Speaker 1: but it was no added sugar food. Every single aspect

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Speaker 1: of their metabolic health improved in ten days flat. That's amazing.

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Speaker 1: Their insulin secretion came back to normal. In other words,

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Speaker 1: we reversed their propensity for diabetes in ten days. That's dramatic,

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Speaker 1: as I'll get up. Oh my gosh. That's why we

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Speaker 1: needed to write the book. You know, dentists used to

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Speaker 1: campaign about sugar. I don't I don't think I've seen

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Speaker 1: an anti sugar campaign from the Dental Association in years. Well,

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Speaker 1: once upon a time, the dentists were the original anti

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Speaker 1: sugar advocates. They knew back in the nineteen thirties because

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Speaker 1: of their hero, doctor Weston Price, who knew this, you know,

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Speaker 1: and basically promulgated this amongst all the dentists. But the

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Speaker 1: dentists were very worried when fluoride came along because fluoride

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Speaker 1: reduced the prevalence of dental carries to cavities by about

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Speaker 1: thirty to forty percent, and the dentist started thinking, well, gee,

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Speaker 1: who's going to fill the seats and they started giving

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Speaker 1: out lollipops. The dentists lost their way, they're now coming

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Speaker 1: back on board because now they have cover from the doctors,

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Speaker 1: because we now understand just what an enemy sugar is

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Speaker 1: to our health. So what would you recommend? What would

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Speaker 1: you recommend, Robert as an overall package to an individual,

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Speaker 1: if they wanted to start on some kind of program,

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Speaker 1: would you start on a program? They do not do

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Speaker 1: is eat real food? So how do you know what's real?

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Speaker 1: That's my next questions, is real food? Then you got

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Speaker 1: a problem? All right? It's very simple. If a food

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Speaker 1: has a label, it's a warning label. It means something's

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Speaker 1: been done to the food. It's not what's in the

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Speaker 1: food that matters, it's what's been done to the food.

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Speaker 1: Once upon a time, people thought you are what you eat.

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Speaker 1: When I wrote my first book, Fat Chance, back in

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Speaker 1: twenty thirteen, I rephrased it. I said, you are what

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Speaker 1: you do with what you eat, emphasizing the metabolism that

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Speaker 1: goes on inside the body. But you know what, I

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Speaker 1: got it wrong too. In this book, Metabolical, I rephrase

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Speaker 1: it yet again, you are what they did with what

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Speaker 1: you eat. What have you seen in your career that

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Speaker 1: got you to start thinking the way you're thinking now? Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, I've been interested in how the brain controls

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Speaker 1: hormones and how hormones control the brain for my entire career.

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Speaker 1: Obesity was sort of the final frontier. In nineteen ninety four,

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Speaker 1: we discovered this hormone called leptin, and lepton is this

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Speaker 1: hormone that's made by your fat cells ghost your brain

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Speaker 1: and says, you know what, I've got enough energy on board.

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Speaker 1: I don't need to eat that second piece of chocolate cake.

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Speaker 1: It is sort of the thermost at the servo mechanism

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Speaker 1: on your brain to tell your brain you don't have

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Speaker 1: to keep you know, consuming. So when you're leptin is

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Speaker 1: working right, all as well and you stay metabolically stable

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Speaker 1: and usually wait stable. However, when your leptin is working wrong,

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Speaker 1: your brain sees starvation. It thinks there's not enough fat

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Speaker 1: on your bones, and therefore it ratchets up all of

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Speaker 1: the phenomena, including increased appetite, decreased expenditure. You know. To start,

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Speaker 1: you start sitting on the couch and eating deritos in

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Speaker 1: an attempt to try to raise your leptin. And the

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Speaker 1: problem is, if your leptin is not working, your leptin

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Speaker 1: can keep going up and I'll going up and you

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Speaker 1: know what, You're still going to be hungry. And that's

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Speaker 1: what we have today. We have this phenomenon called leptin resistance.

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Speaker 1: The question is what causes it. The work that I

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Speaker 1: did back in the nineteen nineties and two thousands showed

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Speaker 1: that insulin, the hormone insulin, the energy storage hormone, was

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Speaker 1: also the blocker of leptin signaling. And doesn't that make sense,

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Speaker 1: because after all, wouldn't it you expect that the hormone

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Speaker 1: that would cause the energy to be stored would also

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Speaker 1: be the hormone that tells your brain to eat more

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Speaker 1: to get more energy stored. So that's understanding. Then asked

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Speaker 1: the question, okay, what's wrong with the insulin? And in

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Speaker 1: two thousand and six it became obvious kids were getting

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Speaker 1: the diseases of alcohol without alcohol. Type two diabetes and

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Speaker 1: fatty liver disease had never been seen in children, but

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Speaker 1: those were the diseases of alcohol until nineteen eighty and

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Speaker 1: now they are the diseases of children. But children don't

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Speaker 1: drink alcohol, but boil boy, do they consume sugar? And

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Speaker 1: it makes sense because, after all, alcohol and sugar are

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Speaker 1: metabolized virtually identically in the liver, and we call it wine.

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Speaker 1: I mean, for you know, for wine, the yeast does

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Speaker 1: the first step of metabolism called glycolysis. For sugar, we

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Speaker 1: do our own first step. But after that the mitochondria

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Speaker 1: are overwhelmed. That mitochondrial dysfunction we talked about before, that's

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Speaker 1: your insulin resistance. Now you've got hyperinsulinemia. Now you've got

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Speaker 1: chronic disease, and you're off to the races. I saw

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Speaker 1: a movie yesterday with the late actor Patrick Swayze who

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Speaker 1: died of liver and pancreatic cancer. Yes, a great actor,

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Speaker 1: and I liked him. We did a good job. We

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Speaker 1: came close to getting him on the show. Yeah, all

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Speaker 1: those things. But what causes pancreatic cancer, Well we don't know.

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Speaker 1: We don't know what causes it, but we know how

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Speaker 1: it grows. It turns out pancreatic cancer has a special

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Speaker 1: enzyme called transketolase, and it takes fructose, the sweet molecule,

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Speaker 1: and sugar turns it into glucose just in the pancrease.

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Speaker 1: So sugar is feeding pancreatic cancer in a big way.

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Speaker 1: Very few patients who've survived pancreatic cancer all had to

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Speaker 1: you know, went on a ketogenic diet and that's where

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Speaker 1: your insulins made too. Isn't it the pancreas. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: it's a double whammy, without question. Interesting take of that.

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Speaker 1: We're going to take calls with you next hour. Robert

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Speaker 1: the book Metabolical. Where can people get it? Well, it's

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Speaker 1: on It's it's in your local bookstore. It's on Amazon,

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Speaker 1: Barnes and Noble, anywhere they sell books. You can find it.

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Speaker 1: What does the food industry say about you? What do

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Speaker 1: you think they say? Yeah, we can't repeat him. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, they would like me to go away. They have,

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Speaker 1: you know, tried to discredit me at many, many levels. Ultimately,

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Speaker 1: I'm still standing because the science is my sword and

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Speaker 1: my shield. Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every

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Speaker 1: weeknight at one am Eastern and go to Coast to

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Speaker 1: Coast am dot com for more