Speaker 1: Pushkin. Who would have thought that in the fourth decade
Speaker 1: of his career, Usher would still be at the peak
Speaker 1: of his powers. Since I spoke to him on this
Speaker 1: podcast exactly a year ago. Not only did he add
Speaker 1: more dates too incredibly successful Las Vegas residency, but he
Speaker 1: spent most of those ADHA dates seducing all the starlits
Speaker 1: who turned up, re establishing himself as the consummate R
Speaker 1: and B lithario he's always been. And then there was
Speaker 1: his super Bowl announcement. It only makes sense with the
Speaker 1: Super Bowl coming to Vegas that the city's current biggest
Speaker 1: star would be the halftime performer. So to commemorate the
Speaker 1: year of Usher and his super Bowl performance this weekend,
Speaker 1: and in anticipation of the announcement of his world tour
Speaker 1: and the release of his new album Coming Home on
Speaker 1: February eleventh, let's have a listen back to my conversation
Speaker 1: with the one and only Usher. This is broken record
Speaker 1: Liner notes to the digital age. I'm justin Mitchell, Hey, Hey.
Speaker 2: That's going on.
Speaker 1: How you guys doing good? How you doing? You know?
Speaker 3: I really do wish I could complain, but I would
Speaker 3: sound like a damn fool one because I don't think
Speaker 3: anybody would care to hear that. Two, it's a waste
Speaker 3: of time when you always have such precious.
Speaker 2: Moments, right, that's right. Man. You can either use it
Speaker 2: to complain or you can use it to compel, right.
Speaker 1: And to propel. Man. You got a lot going man,
Speaker 1: a lot going on, that's right. Since fourteen I remember
Speaker 1: you busting out killing it. And now man, we're about
Speaker 1: twenty five years later, and it says, if you're as
Speaker 1: busy as you've ever been, man, tell me about what's
Speaker 1: going on.
Speaker 2: It's crazy, man, considering I'm only thirty years old. I mean,
Speaker 2: I've been doing it since I was five. Man, there's
Speaker 2: been a lot going on. Actually, a lot of really
Speaker 2: great things. A career obviously that's been you know, constructed
Speaker 2: over all of this time, in all of these years.
Speaker 2: But more than anything, a celebration over the last few
Speaker 2: years in Las Vegas with my Vegas residency is I
Speaker 2: go back night after night listening to the songs and
Speaker 2: kind of relive in some of the emotions. Obviously the
Speaker 2: choreography and all the things that come with it. But
Speaker 2: more than that, man, it's fun and excitement that I needed,
Speaker 2: you know, I think all artists need a bit of motivation,
Speaker 2: and rather it's an audience or either just the love
Speaker 2: and passion of what you do. But being in front
Speaker 2: of a live audience really, you know, kind of reignited
Speaker 2: my passion and the energy, which is part of the
Speaker 2: reason that I'm now dropping the music and also too
Speaker 2: in the process of putting out another album, working on
Speaker 2: other products and other ancillary things to what I do culturally.
Speaker 2: You know, if you see the way I dress, or
Speaker 2: do you see the products I'm using, whatever it might be,
Speaker 2: all of those things are really your product of a
Speaker 2: career man that has been do as you said, over
Speaker 2: twenty years. It's crazy because I don't feel it is. Honestly,
Speaker 2: you don't realize how older you are, I guess until
Speaker 2: you think about your children. I have fourteen and a
Speaker 2: fifteen year old, so I'm like, okay, apparently i must
Speaker 2: be a bit older. But I'm not feeling like I'm
Speaker 2: losing a beat because rather I'm playing you know, football
Speaker 2: or basketball or any of those things with them. I'm
Speaker 2: keeping up.
Speaker 1: That's right, man. The kids keep you young and old.
Speaker 1: It's a little bit of both.
Speaker 2: They keep you wise. That's what I will say. Kids
Speaker 2: they will challenge you and at the same time, they
Speaker 2: will give you purpose and the reason you know, you
Speaker 2: think about the things that matter. It's that time that
Speaker 2: you have with them, them finding themselves that becomes more
Speaker 2: of a priority.
Speaker 1: You know, the new album. What did that energy start
Speaker 1: to come together?
Speaker 2: The energy of working on an album started a few
Speaker 2: years ago, and there has been, you know, some hiccups
Speaker 2: that obviously have caused you know, me not to just
Speaker 2: put music out one the pandemic kind of sent everybody
Speaker 2: into like a holding pattern. And then just you know,
Speaker 2: deliberating over you know, just the process of analyzing right
Speaker 2: what expectations are out there. Then you just kind of
Speaker 2: get to a place where you're like, you know what
Speaker 2: this is, what it is that I've been working on.
Speaker 2: This is a an offering, you know. Rather, I'm talking
Speaker 2: about things that I obviously can relate to because I
Speaker 2: went through them, or either you can relate to because
Speaker 2: you're going through them. But you know, now I'm ready
Speaker 2: to share. I'm ready to share the music, I'm ready
Speaker 2: to share the emotion, I'm ready to share the creativity.
Speaker 2: Some of the things that I picked up over the
Speaker 2: time that I've been making this album now I'm ready
Speaker 2: to share it. What that is. I made a directorial
Speaker 2: debut with a song that is really only a snippet
Speaker 2: at this point Google, But I have to say that
Speaker 2: a lot of it has been spun as a result
Speaker 2: of my Las Vegas residency. When I did that, it
Speaker 2: just again, It's just reignited, you know, my passion and
Speaker 2: my connection to my audience and also to my connection
Speaker 2: to my music.
Speaker 1: Were you as backwards looking before you started the Vegas residency?
Speaker 1: Were you kind of yeah, typically in a mode of
Speaker 1: looking back at your career and thinking about different albums
Speaker 1: and eras, or did this kind of help you to that.
Speaker 2: Las Vegas specifically has always been about celebrating the songs
Speaker 2: that you've had in the past. For me, it was
Speaker 2: a little bit of that, but it was a celebration
Speaker 2: of a genre, celebration of music because R and B
Speaker 2: in that capacity hadn't really been there. You've had a
Speaker 2: few artists you've had, you know, Marian Carey and also
Speaker 2: to the a few more new recent artists that were
Speaker 2: working in Las Vegas like Bruno Mars and then this impact,
Speaker 2: but that culture of R and B music and live
Speaker 2: performance in the way that I do it. It wasn't there,
Speaker 2: so I don't know if I ever looked at it
Speaker 2: as looking back. I looked at it as let me
Speaker 2: go back for a second to remind you of what
Speaker 2: this level of performance and entertainment is ultimately about, and
Speaker 2: the fact that this culture doesn't exist here. Things that
Speaker 2: I on stage, you know, I mean, I don't know
Speaker 2: if you've ever been to my show, but I take
Speaker 2: you on a complete ride through Atlanta through black culture.
Speaker 2: There's you know, certain views of like you know, jazz
Speaker 2: and obviously live music, and the idea of like being
Speaker 2: in this impromptu moment or improv that happens. You know,
Speaker 2: these unexpected things and unexpected guests that might come out
Speaker 2: on the stage. All of those things are part of
Speaker 2: what an R and B show has always offered in time.
Speaker 2: So it gave me the opportunity to do that and
Speaker 2: then experimenting with other things like skating on stage, and
Speaker 2: I just really I had fun. So again I didn't
Speaker 2: look at it as looking back. The music from the
Speaker 2: soundtrack of My life, which is the songs that are hits,
Speaker 2: they take you back, But I'm moving forward in terms
Speaker 2: of how I introduced this to you and how immersed
Speaker 2: you are in this experience. You don't feel like you're
Speaker 2: going to a show. You feel like you're having an experience.
Speaker 2: You don't feel like you're watching a live experience. You
Speaker 2: know that it's just singing and no, you were completely
Speaker 2: immersed from the moment you walk into the theater to
Speaker 2: the moment that you leave the nightclub. You're completely in
Speaker 2: my passion. You're in the passion of what it is
Speaker 2: that I created, both musically and also too as an experience.
Speaker 1: I love that it's such a send up to like
Speaker 1: R and B, such a celebration of the genre, man,
Speaker 1: because you know, it's funny. I was having a conversation
Speaker 1: for the podcast with Babyface a couple of weeks ago,
Speaker 1: and it dawned on me through talking to him that
Speaker 1: the era that you came up in the nineties really
Speaker 1: was the era of like R and B just being
Speaker 1: the mainstream popular music of the day, man. You know,
Speaker 1: whereas at some point it was race music, at some
Speaker 1: point it was segregated the black charts. By the nineties, man,
Speaker 1: when you guys were what you guys were doing with
Speaker 1: the face, it became like a driver of the culture.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I'll say this, was it more relevant because
Speaker 2: it became defiant and things and genres that were established,
Speaker 2: like hip hop became more relevant. And then the mixing
Speaker 2: of R and B and hip hop together made it
Speaker 2: feel dangerous, I'd say that, but it was dangerous way before,
Speaker 2: and it was those other coaches of music are genres
Speaker 2: of music, if you want to call them that, that
Speaker 2: were bastardizing in ways. You know, this incredible thing called jazz.
Speaker 2: Jazz is the creation of all things man, all things musical. Rather,
Speaker 2: it's rock. Rather, it's ideas of classical things. Right, we
Speaker 2: think about how R and B was established, It was jazz,
Speaker 2: and then from that all other things come. In my opinion,
Speaker 2: I think that there was a formal way of listening
Speaker 2: to music, which is orchestrated, and that's a different practice.
Speaker 2: But the things that you feel, the emotion, the storytelling,
Speaker 2: that's jazz. And rather, through the thirties, forties, you know,
Speaker 2: and then making your way up into the fifties, sixties
Speaker 2: and seventies, R and B was kind of on the
Speaker 2: back burner, but it was always supplying. Jazz was always
Speaker 2: supplying to all those other genres. Yeah, So in my mind,
Speaker 2: I take ownership of that for those people. Even though
Speaker 2: we were racially segregated and maybe black, you know, performers
Speaker 2: were not celebrated. They couldn't even walk through the very
Speaker 2: places that they were performing in. So yeah, I think
Speaker 2: you're right. You know, through the nineties, R and B
Speaker 2: had a moment where it was more relevant than others
Speaker 2: and it felt dangerous. Rock and roll, for one, it
Speaker 2: felt dangerous. If you look at DM and all of
Speaker 2: those other things hip hop, it felt dangerous. So there's
Speaker 2: a sophistication that R and B had and has always
Speaker 2: had that popular music or popular genre has been able
Speaker 2: to adopt. But it ain't ever went away. I think
Speaker 2: that it's always been there. And so long as you
Speaker 2: hear those those hues of what is jazz, those hues
Speaker 2: of what is blue, those hues of what is soul music,
Speaker 2: then that shit is R and B. That ain't what
Speaker 2: you think. It's not the genre that was claimed, it's
Speaker 2: the inspiration that was provided. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: We'll be back after a quick break with more of
Speaker 1: my conversation with Usher. We're back with more from Usher.
Speaker 1: You're right about, like R and B having this sort
Speaker 1: of dangerous feel to it, too in the nineties, and
Speaker 1: it was almost an accident because you get discovered by
Speaker 1: La Reid and get signed on the face, but because
Speaker 1: La didn't exactly know what to do with you in
Speaker 1: the beginning, you get sent to go work with Puff
Speaker 1: and it's like you kind of get immersed in a
Speaker 1: you kind of have this dual world happening, man, between
Speaker 1: the R and B that you aspire to do and
Speaker 1: now you're hanging with Puff and even kind of more
Speaker 1: dangerous R and B cats like Davante Swing, kind of
Speaker 1: more edgy cats. You know, how was that moment for you?
Speaker 2: Man?
Speaker 1: It seems like real like the stars aligned to have
Speaker 1: that moment happen for you. Man.
Speaker 2: Yeah, before you get to like DeVante's Swing and New
Speaker 2: York's contribution to be and hip hop, you got the Parliament,
Speaker 2: you gotta go, you know those guys you got to
Speaker 2: go to. You know, R and B was dangerous much
Speaker 2: earlier than that, and my working with Puff was, you know,
Speaker 2: a matter of La Reid's vision to see that the
Speaker 2: entrepreneur that Puff was was going to grow. You know,
Speaker 2: until La Reid introduced the world to Sean Buffy Combs,
Speaker 2: you didn't know nothing about bad boy. You didn't even
Speaker 2: understand what it had to offer it, which meant, you know,
Speaker 2: you might have even glassed over, you know what he
Speaker 2: did with Joe to See and Uptown Records. So I
Speaker 2: think it was really the sophistication between La Reids helping
Speaker 2: people like Puff to be able to find his life,
Speaker 2: or Dallas Austin and Jermaine Duprie, or any of the
Speaker 2: guys that he had hit records with, Rico Wade with
Speaker 2: organized Noise, all of those things. That was a matter
Speaker 2: of sophistication in La Reads, blending of the two worlds
Speaker 2: to make it dangerous. Yeah, Joasy was hip hop. It
Speaker 2: almost looked like a rock band that was R and B.
Speaker 2: You know, Mary j has always been, you know, this
Speaker 2: incredible soul singer that was just pulling her heart out.
Speaker 2: You know, I'll be sure you know, heavy D all
Speaker 2: of those guys from that time that were setting a
Speaker 2: standard that would be no Shaggy and all of those
Speaker 2: guys if you didn't have a heavy D. So when
Speaker 2: I think about what I gained from working with Puffy
Speaker 2: and being in New York City and spending an entire
Speaker 2: year with him making my first album, it gave me
Speaker 2: all the fuel that I need to be not only
Speaker 2: the creative but also to the innovator that discovers talent
Speaker 2: and knows how to develop it as well using it
Speaker 2: for myself or either helping them find their way. There
Speaker 2: was something so fundamental about his creation and his idea
Speaker 2: of branding. It wasn't just about being a singer. You
Speaker 2: could be a great fucking singer. That don't matter if
Speaker 2: I don't feel like I'm getting it. It's dangerous dealing
Speaker 2: with you, and it's like, man, why am I looking
Speaker 2: at you? Why do I care about you? I learned
Speaker 2: all of that from the School of Puff, and then
Speaker 2: from there it became relationship, and it became the life
Speaker 2: story and understanding where the person was, what their views were,
Speaker 2: and what, you know, choices they made, how they dressed,
Speaker 2: you know, what type of shit they got into it.
Speaker 2: It became something far more than just listening to the music.
Speaker 2: You fell in love with the artist, so I wanted that.
Speaker 2: I'm like, okay, great. So then we didn't make a
Speaker 2: hit album together, but we had a hit record on
Speaker 2: it working with DeVante Swim you know, man, believe it
Speaker 2: or not being around Biggie earlier in the days when
Speaker 2: he was being introduced Craig mag total being in New
Speaker 2: York City, like going to Mount Vernon, being you know,
Speaker 2: and being under the wing of Heady D and being
Speaker 2: able to see how you move and work with these
Speaker 2: genre work with like hip hop and R and B together,
Speaker 2: all of those things. I gained. All of that now
Speaker 2: left and after that made my way, came back to
Speaker 2: Atlanta and worked with JD and we made it increndible music,
Speaker 2: incrontable music together that now serviced all of what I
Speaker 2: know about being an artist. But yeah, a lot of
Speaker 2: hit records came out of that by Way eighty seven
Speaker 2: oh one Confessions, and we kept going and we are
Speaker 2: still going. But yeah, I think that the one thing
Speaker 2: you might be overlooking is the danger and also to
Speaker 2: the sophistication that La Red had to create a blend, right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: because that man had insight. That man had the ability
Speaker 2: to see for real before everybody else saw for real.
Speaker 2: That man had the ability to see you know, Jay
Speaker 2: Z and make him an executive that now we respect
Speaker 2: as a businessman because he saw something more. The sophistication
Speaker 2: of understanding how to grow black entrepreneurs and black creatives
Speaker 2: to a place and lift them up is what I
Speaker 2: think happened with La and really made what we celebrate
Speaker 2: as a culture in music.
Speaker 1: Where do you think your sophistication came from? Because it
Speaker 1: just feels like you had it so early, like from
Speaker 1: the beginning, like even though the first record wasn't hit record,
Speaker 1: like you came just ready made.
Speaker 2: Already made is in the work, my work ethic is
Speaker 2: where that's what makes the difference. I learned the skill
Speaker 2: of being in the environment of people. If you want
Speaker 2: to be great, if that's surround yourself around great people,
Speaker 2: La Reid, Sean, Puffy Combs, Jermaine Duprie, Dallas Austin, you know,
Speaker 2: working with the greats, you know, and then creating really incredible,
Speaker 2: amazing one offs, like you know, we did records with
Speaker 2: Pharrell for the first time. But being able to have
Speaker 2: access to these guys, and I look at my you know,
Speaker 2: all of the reconsented things that I've been able to create.
Speaker 2: I got a really really dope click of people who
Speaker 2: have been a part of my legacy. It ain't just
Speaker 2: one person, It's an entire world of people who who
Speaker 2: have all of these different views of R and B
Speaker 2: and hip hop and the way they play with it
Speaker 2: and the way they may make things. It's like it's
Speaker 2: like nothing else that you can't you can't compare it
Speaker 2: to anything else.
Speaker 1: Man, you really have multiple worlds of music colliding all
Speaker 1: through your catalog, really, and cats like early and has
Speaker 1: interesting points in the career, like when you're working with Jimmy,
Speaker 1: Jame and Terry Lewis, Like you got them kind of
Speaker 1: like a real interesting point in my view, and it's
Speaker 1: just catalog's crazy.
Speaker 2: You asked where the sophistication comes from. The sophistication comes from.
Speaker 2: You know the gurus like Jimmy, Jimmys, tay Lewis, like
Speaker 2: l A. Reid maybe face you know, those are the
Speaker 2: guys who were like they were like the oracles man
Speaker 2: they would have They're like the Jedies. They they made
Speaker 2: you understand what it was to be an artist and
Speaker 2: how to make things last, being able to have ships
Speaker 2: like Quincy Jones. And then you know the young Jedies
Speaker 2: like you know, like Jermaine Dupree, He's avocate, you know
Speaker 2: what I'm saying, Like, just, yeah.
Speaker 1: When did you first meet Quincy Jones?
Speaker 2: Man? I first met Quincy. I walked into a Tommy
Speaker 2: Hill Figure. It was a Tommy Hill Figure show in
Speaker 2: New York City. It was me and Leah, I think
Speaker 2: it was. It was a ton of relevant artists at
Speaker 2: that time. He had us walk in the show, and
Speaker 2: that was the first time that Q kind of put
Speaker 2: his crew together, so we were his crew for the night.
Speaker 2: And from that it's find a really great relationship of friendship.
Speaker 2: He's been a godfather to me ever since that day,
Speaker 2: you know, and my conversations with him, believe it or not,
Speaker 2: were not about music as much as it was what
Speaker 2: is your contribution to life? He turned me into a philanthropist.
Speaker 2: He began to help me understand that there's much more
Speaker 2: of a responsibility to kind of lay groundwork and remind
Speaker 2: people that it's not just about music. It's also to
Speaker 2: about opening your eyes with the world's eyes to things
Speaker 2: that need to be addressed, you know, advocating for things
Speaker 2: that you think you know do matter and will matter
Speaker 2: for you know, generations to come and even for the
Speaker 2: current time. But yeah, a great relationship, So that's sophistication,
Speaker 2: you know. It comes from those relationships, relationships with the
Speaker 2: guys who've been here before, the elders, the guys who understand.
Speaker 2: You know, it's odd and this time because everything's so young, right,
Speaker 2: and everything's so vibrant, and everything's so defiant. But really, man,
Speaker 2: our elders are the ones that matter. They got something
Speaker 2: to teach us, and we really do learn from listening
Speaker 2: to them. So you got to listen to the ogs.
Speaker 2: You know, they are the gatekeepers and they make the difference. Yes,
Speaker 2: there is a new frontier of people who are just
Speaker 2: speaking out for how they feel and being loud about it.
Speaker 2: But sophistication, man, longevity comes from listening to your elders.
Speaker 2: You want to make it last forever, and you got
Speaker 2: to listen to your elders, listen to the ones that
Speaker 2: have been here. Even if you think what they're telling
Speaker 2: you ain't relevant to what you think or what you feel.
Speaker 2: Right now, they got something to share with you, and
Speaker 2: that that sophistication and longevity comes from there, their will
Speaker 2: of knowledge.
Speaker 1: Man, it's beautiful to you already. That's such a young
Speaker 1: tender age man. Just to accept that wisdom, man, and
Speaker 1: listen because you know, and then also not to take
Speaker 1: what they tell you, incorporate it and also find your
Speaker 1: own way it your own way, man, because certainly, looking
Speaker 1: at your catalog, your career, it's a totally unique path
Speaker 1: that you took.
Speaker 2: Their commitment and their dedication is what I saw, and
Speaker 2: I become them in time. I don't know. Like I
Speaker 2: said on Monday, thirty years old, you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 2: So over time, hopefully I'll be able to share that
Speaker 2: information that ends that wisdom with the artists that are coming.
Speaker 1: Speaking of Quincy, is there any truth to the idea
Speaker 1: that Tevin Campbell's second record, I'm ready some of those
Speaker 1: songs a supposed to be written for you.
Speaker 2: Now many people have said that, no, Tevin Campbell's songs
Speaker 2: were Tevin cambell songs and my songs were my songs.
Speaker 2: The reality is, I think La Reid and Baby Facebook
Speaker 2: kind of going through a transition when they worked together
Speaker 2: and when I first signed as an artist, so I
Speaker 2: probably didn't get a chance to receive, you know, the
Speaker 2: love and the benefit of what Baby Face offered my
Speaker 2: first album. But I later on became great friends with him.
Speaker 2: I just seen him in Atlanta. You know, he's still
Speaker 2: an og I love him, and rather he was writing
Speaker 2: songs for me. He still was a motivation. I still
Speaker 2: looked at Whipple Peel and was influenced by that. Matter
Speaker 2: of fact, the song that actually, you know, spun it
Speaker 2: off and started it off for me was a song
Speaker 2: that he wrote. He and La Reed together wrote that
Speaker 2: record End of the Road, End of the Road, Yeah
Speaker 2: by buys Men, But I'm ready those songs they belonged
Speaker 2: to Tavin Campbell. What I did with Puff and my
Speaker 2: first album, it was what it was. I did not
Speaker 2: get that record that I wanted my first album. When
Speaker 2: I listened to Can We Talk? I felt slighted because
Speaker 2: I was like, damn, I wanted that record. I wanted
Speaker 2: a record that I wonder if that song was for me, Nah,
Speaker 2: it wasn't. I think it was always Tavian Campbell's song.
Speaker 2: And I know that, you know face he was going
Speaker 2: through something, I guess at the moment with La and
Speaker 2: we just didn't work together my first out.
Speaker 1: It that goes to, like again it being sort of
Speaker 1: serendipitous that you get to work, you get to be
Speaker 1: on the face and have a lot of what comes
Speaker 1: with that, but then also kind of get to kind
Speaker 1: of go your own route and go work with Puff
Speaker 1: and you kind of got the face plus more in
Speaker 1: a lot of ways, which was I imagine must have been free.
Speaker 2: It was out of my control. I would have wanted
Speaker 2: to work with Babyface, they were just going through something
Speaker 2: that wouldn't allow it to happen in the time. But yeah,
Speaker 2: it's it's a manifestation. I remember being in Chattanooga, Tennessee,
Speaker 2: and me and my mother talking about going to Atlanta
Speaker 2: and potentially meeting La Reid and Babyface and signing to
Speaker 2: their label. That's why we came to Atlanta. For me,
Speaker 2: she came to Atlanta because it was a you know,
Speaker 2: it was an elevation from Chattanooga, and it's more opportunity
Speaker 2: for her as a as a woman and also to
Speaker 2: her employment at the time. But for me, it was
Speaker 2: a true opportunity to meet some executive and maybe turn
Speaker 2: this talent into something that would take care of us
Speaker 2: because I was not taking enough for an answer. In
Speaker 2: my mind, I knew I would perform, but like I
Speaker 2: had a red diet on where I wanted to be,
Speaker 2: I was performing. We maybe faced the songs rather it
Speaker 2: was Bobby Brown or Boys to Men or any of
Speaker 2: the other artists that they've worked with, and rock Steady
Speaker 2: was on repeat, you know, by the Whispers for my
Speaker 2: Mom for my Mom. So I was always listening to
Speaker 2: La Reed and Baby Faces production. I didn't realize it,
Speaker 2: but I finally made it to Atlanta, and I didn't
Speaker 2: know who La Reed was. I just knew that they
Speaker 2: had a hit record on the radio and I loved
Speaker 2: singing it, and if I could get people to pay
Speaker 2: attention to me, maybe I could get to them. And
Speaker 2: it happened. It was a manifestation I called it, and
Speaker 2: to existence, I said it, and we went after it,
Speaker 2: and me and my mother we made it happen.
Speaker 1: We're going to take one last break and then be
Speaker 1: back with more from us here. We're back with the
Speaker 1: rest of my conversation with us here. What do you
Speaker 1: think happened between making a really great first record that, honestly,
Speaker 1: I think still holds up as one of the great
Speaker 1: records of that early nineties R and B era, But
Speaker 1: what happened you think between then and My Way where
Speaker 1: you kind of were able to create a hit record.
Speaker 2: I think, first of all, Buffy was ahead of his
Speaker 2: time in terms of what he created with my first
Speaker 2: album that would ultimately become the stable of what R
Speaker 2: and B artists in my age group would go after.
Speaker 2: So he was way ahead. I think it just it
Speaker 2: might have been a little bit too mature, and now
Speaker 2: looking at things, it's like they busting it wide open
Speaker 2: and that pussy with you know what I'm saying, this
Speaker 2: crazy type of shit that they say now, which, hey,
Speaker 2: it's an interpretation and you should be able to say
Speaker 2: whatever you want, wet ass pussy and all that other shit.
Speaker 2: But you know, I think can you get with it
Speaker 2: was a bit that was a bit much for a
Speaker 2: fifteen year old to say, can you get rided to
Speaker 2: a girl? That means it's a sexual thing. But you know,
Speaker 2: I think he was just ahead. He was just ahead
Speaker 2: of the curve. I think that he got there before
Speaker 2: everybody else did and was willing to push me in it.
Speaker 2: So long as I was willing to allow myself to
Speaker 2: be produced as an artist, that I would get something valuable.
Speaker 2: Now going back and listening to those songs, they're way
Speaker 2: way better then I could even understand at the time.
Speaker 2: I missed that that Davante's swing production. There's no songs
Speaker 2: on the radio that sound like any of that stuff.
Speaker 2: What he was creating and what they were working on,
Speaker 2: you know, Timberlin was doing those beats. Man, like, there's
Speaker 2: no music that sounds like that type of R and
Speaker 2: B even to this day, and as great as R
Speaker 2: and B is, nothing is great like that. That man
Speaker 2: was creating something that was amazing.
Speaker 1: What was it like being in the studio with Davante's
Speaker 1: swing man, if.
Speaker 2: I could even remember, because I only saw so much,
Speaker 2: and obviously my focus was on performing and singing. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I wasn't really paying attention to the type of things
Speaker 2: that were going on. But he was a star and
Speaker 2: something about living and breathing and being the star at
Speaker 2: all moments, that's what I saw. I watched him work,
Speaker 2: and when I watched him go over to the piano,
Speaker 2: I watched him turn the knobs. So he directed me
Speaker 2: how to sing when he walked over to his car,
Speaker 2: when he directed how he wanted his crew to produce,
Speaker 2: or he to work on songs, because it wasn't just
Speaker 2: can you with it? He worked on a few songs
Speaker 2: on the album. I was just so impressed with the
Speaker 2: star that he was. How he you know, how just
Speaker 2: how he carried himself. I just he was a rock star. Man.
Speaker 2: It was it was like that dude is just super
Speaker 2: duper freaking cool. And then you got jo to Sy
Speaker 2: in the background, literally Casey is singing backgrounds on Can't
Speaker 2: You Get with It? I'm like, Yo, who am I?
Speaker 2: What have I manifested to be able to have Casey
Speaker 2: and Jojo here listening to me perform in the booth?
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying? And also to and backgrounds
Speaker 2: on my song the cood Side of This World?
Speaker 1: Man, At what point did you working with JD realize
Speaker 1: Confessions was going to be confessions? In other words, that
Speaker 1: it was going to be such a like a personal record.
Speaker 2: When me and JD lock in, we lock in, you know,
Speaker 2: we become one in that moment, right, Rather we're talking
Speaker 2: about things that we as men sitting and talk about.
Speaker 2: Rather we were talking about things that he was going
Speaker 2: through or things that I was going through. I think
Speaker 2: that was an AHA moment between he and I because
Speaker 2: we the album title was called Real Talk when we
Speaker 2: first started, and it was all about that was like
Speaker 2: a catch tone, you know, catch phrases. Time let us
Speaker 2: like real talk. So I was like, let's name it that.
Speaker 2: We named it that, and that was a motivation. Like
Speaker 2: all the conversations on this album are going to be
Speaker 2: real like complicated things. Rather it was dealing with the
Speaker 2: emotion of complicated in the complications of emotion. Or rather
Speaker 2: it was dealing with the complications of love and what
Speaker 2: happens when you you know, you're in a toxic situation,
Speaker 2: or you have a girl on the side, or you're
Speaker 2: in a relationship and you're trying to figure out how
Speaker 2: to balance as a man. You know, when he and
Speaker 2: I lock in, it becomes something special. So Confessions as
Speaker 2: a title or as a song, it really just happened organically.
Speaker 2: You know, we were just living and talking and living
Speaker 2: with each other and trying to find the way to
Speaker 2: write the songs of what we were living through.
Speaker 1: You know, talking about dangerous, that record really felt dangerous
Speaker 1: in a different way man, because it felt like harkening
Speaker 1: back to like Marvin putting it all out there, like
Speaker 1: in the like when he was going through his love
Speaker 1: troubles in the late seventies, and just I don't know
Speaker 1: that there was records R and B Records two thousand
Speaker 1: and three, two thousand and four that felt as personal
Speaker 1: as that Man, that felt powerful even as a kid,
Speaker 1: I mean I was a freshman in high school and
Speaker 1: that came out and I was like it just felt
Speaker 1: was like, yo, this is different.
Speaker 2: Well, by the way, as a young boy, right, you
Speaker 2: don't necessarily have a lot of songs that you know,
Speaker 2: speak to the emotions that we feel and that they are.
Speaker 2: You know, maybe it's disconnected from you know, the reality
Speaker 2: of the facade that we as men have to put on.
Speaker 2: You know, I don't want to be emotional. I don't
Speaker 2: really want to let you know that my heart is
Speaker 2: broken or I'm really broken in this moment. We always
Speaker 2: found very unique ways to be vulnerable. And that was
Speaker 2: the point. It was like, no, let's talk about the
Speaker 2: things that are complicated. Let's talk about the complications of
Speaker 2: like passion and love man and make it all right
Speaker 2: for men to listen to it and women to respect
Speaker 2: it because it's articulated in a way that's clear for
Speaker 2: them to know what we're dealing with. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 2: and un necessarily you know, like what we're saying. And
Speaker 2: I think the nineties kind of found this way of
Speaker 2: doing that. There were artists that did it other than Jabi,
Speaker 2: like Danielle Jones. You know, being in love with when
Speaker 2: you love someone, you just don't treat them bad now
Speaker 2: I feel so sad that I want to leave. She's
Speaker 2: crying the hard to me. How could you let this be?
Speaker 2: I just need time to think where I want to be.
Speaker 2: That's a conflict, Like living in this place of conflict
Speaker 2: is what I think we were really focused on with Confessions,
Speaker 2: And every time me and JD worked together, you know,
Speaker 2: and it became a really good practice of all of
Speaker 2: the art that I've created. I make that like, what
Speaker 2: is that conflict? You remind me of a girl that
Speaker 2: I once knew. You don't have to call because I'm
Speaker 2: out with my homies. I can't. You know, I'm gonna
Speaker 2: be all right. We broke up and I'm cool. I'm
Speaker 2: gonna keep it moving. I gotta get back on my feet. Confessions,
Speaker 2: I got a baby on the side. You know, you know,
Speaker 2: I don't mind you know, you know I'm looking at
Speaker 2: a girl in the strip club like I don't mind
Speaker 2: that you do what you do. I ain't got no
Speaker 2: judgment for you. You dance on the pole, they don't
Speaker 2: make you well, you know what I'm saying. All of
Speaker 2: those those things of conflict like that, you got it
Speaker 2: bad climax. I reached the climax of this relationship. I
Speaker 2: know it's not gonna be more than sexual if I
Speaker 2: get it, and I'm letting it be what it is.
Speaker 2: You got it bad, let it burn. These are things
Speaker 2: that were real. I can remember, you know, feeling the
Speaker 2: emotions of like you know, I'm out of control. I
Speaker 2: cannot deal with the emotional like internal burning that I'm
Speaker 2: going through, Like I can't stop crying. I can't stop
Speaker 2: what I'm feeling. That's like a burning sensation. We go
Speaker 2: to a song called Burn. So living in or finding
Speaker 2: ways to articulate conflict is what is in those songs
Speaker 2: and what you know was in confessions.
Speaker 1: So just to wrap things up working on a new record,
Speaker 1: do you still find inspiration and conflict or what do
Speaker 1: you find yourself find an inspiration these days in terms
Speaker 1: of songwriting and emotion.
Speaker 2: A little bit of both. It is what I feel
Speaker 2: in my songmaking. Yeah, as a man, I'm going to
Speaker 2: always be conflicted because that's passion and we're kind of
Speaker 2: working against the natural nature of man. It's like I
Speaker 2: want to be in love, I want to be happy,
Speaker 2: but then I also too, am going to sabotage myself
Speaker 2: because I'm passionate, you know, I want to be happy,
Speaker 2: but I've been so unhappy for so long that i
Speaker 2: just end up sabotaging myself because that's just what I'm
Speaker 2: accustomed to, toxicity in life. And by the way, it's
Speaker 2: not just men. Women are going through this shit too.
Speaker 1: It's a human condition.
Speaker 2: There's a human condition, and it's a human experience. What
Speaker 2: we are all doing is having a human experience. Music
Speaker 2: provides an opportunity to jot it down, to make it
Speaker 2: last forever, to listen to it and continue to think
Speaker 2: about where you were and maybe get something from it.
Speaker 2: Rather you like, Okay, I acknowledge it. I got this problem,
Speaker 2: I got this issue. Now I got to get past it.
Speaker 2: Or either man, I'm going through that right now. All right, Well,
Speaker 2: what's on the other side of it? You got to
Speaker 2: first acknowledge it and deal with it. Sit with me.
Speaker 2: Don't just go go get another love or go go
Speaker 2: you know, buy another thing, or go and run away
Speaker 2: from it and go put your attention in time somewhere else. No,
Speaker 2: that shit with it, But that conflict, yes, is still
Speaker 2: there to this day because I'm human, you know, even
Speaker 2: if it's just a thought. You know, sometimes we need
Speaker 2: a little space to be able to find that sometimes
Speaker 2: we need to slow down and sit with discomfort. Maybe
Speaker 2: sometime we need to find balance. And I'm happy that
Speaker 2: I've been able to be that balance in music, to
Speaker 2: be able to help people get through that.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, Man, thank you always for finding that in your
Speaker 1: music and not being afraid to be vulnerable, because you've
Speaker 1: helped a lot of people process a lot, man, a
Speaker 1: lot of different things, a lot of different emotions, good
Speaker 1: and bad and in between. So appreciate you always, man.
Speaker 1: And it's so I have my math wrong up top
Speaker 1: two right, it's fifteen years, been in the game about thirty.
Speaker 2: Now now, But you know I claim all of my years. Man,
Speaker 2: I don't look forty four, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: But I'm definitely loving the wisdom that has come with
Speaker 2: this time and the celebration in Las Vegas. Man that
Speaker 2: I get out of it, the fact that people are
Speaker 2: paying their hard earned money to come out there. I
Speaker 2: ain't bringing you there to disappoint you. I'm going to
Speaker 2: give you an experience and you're going to have a
Speaker 2: celebratory moment. Rather, it was the beginning of my career,
Speaker 2: or rather it's the current moment that just makes you
Speaker 2: enjoy the process. Come come to Las Vegas, come enjoy you.
Speaker 2: Be on the lookout for new music because it's coming.
Speaker 2: And Man, I thank you, Thank you for this moment
Speaker 2: to be able to share. Thank you for this moment
Speaker 2: to be able to just talk about that thing as
Speaker 2: a guy geting gift that I get to share with
Speaker 2: that audience every day.
Speaker 1: Yes, sir, can't wait to see you out in Vegas.
Speaker 1: I'll be out there in June.
Speaker 2: And thank you, man, Man, thank you.
Speaker 1: Thanks again to Usher for jumping on zoom despite his
Speaker 1: busy schedule. You can hear all of our favorite Usher
Speaker 1: songs at Broken Record podcast dot com. You can subscribe
Speaker 1: to a YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash Broken
Speaker 1: Record Podcast, where can find all of our new episodes.
Speaker 1: You can follow us on Twitter at Broken Records. Broken
Speaker 1: Record is produced with help from Leah Rose, Jason Gambrel,
Speaker 1: Ben Tolliday, and Eric sam There. Our editor is Sophie
Speaker 1: Crane bro Conrect with this production of Pushkin Industries. If
Speaker 1: you love this show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing
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Speaker 1: A theme music expect Kenny Beats. I'm Justin Oshman.