1 00:00:15,476 --> 00:00:22,076 Speaker 1: Pushkin. Who would have thought that in the fourth decade 2 00:00:22,076 --> 00:00:24,756 Speaker 1: of his career, Usher would still be at the peak 3 00:00:24,796 --> 00:00:27,476 Speaker 1: of his powers. Since I spoke to him on this 4 00:00:27,516 --> 00:00:30,316 Speaker 1: podcast exactly a year ago. Not only did he add 5 00:00:30,316 --> 00:00:34,276 Speaker 1: more dates too incredibly successful Las Vegas residency, but he 6 00:00:34,316 --> 00:00:37,076 Speaker 1: spent most of those ADHA dates seducing all the starlits 7 00:00:37,116 --> 00:00:40,596 Speaker 1: who turned up, re establishing himself as the consummate R 8 00:00:40,676 --> 00:00:44,916 Speaker 1: and B lithario he's always been. And then there was 9 00:00:44,956 --> 00:00:47,716 Speaker 1: his super Bowl announcement. It only makes sense with the 10 00:00:47,756 --> 00:00:50,716 Speaker 1: Super Bowl coming to Vegas that the city's current biggest 11 00:00:50,716 --> 00:00:54,236 Speaker 1: star would be the halftime performer. So to commemorate the 12 00:00:54,316 --> 00:00:56,956 Speaker 1: year of Usher and his super Bowl performance this weekend, 13 00:00:57,476 --> 00:01:00,076 Speaker 1: and in anticipation of the announcement of his world tour 14 00:01:00,236 --> 00:01:02,196 Speaker 1: and the release of his new album Coming Home on 15 00:01:02,236 --> 00:01:05,636 Speaker 1: February eleventh, let's have a listen back to my conversation 16 00:01:05,916 --> 00:01:12,276 Speaker 1: with the one and only Usher. This is broken record 17 00:01:12,596 --> 00:01:17,316 Speaker 1: Liner notes to the digital age. I'm justin Mitchell, Hey, Hey. 18 00:01:17,556 --> 00:01:18,396 Speaker 2: That's going on. 19 00:01:18,796 --> 00:01:21,836 Speaker 1: How you guys doing good? How you doing? You know? 20 00:01:21,996 --> 00:01:25,116 Speaker 3: I really do wish I could complain, but I would 21 00:01:25,116 --> 00:01:31,076 Speaker 3: sound like a damn fool one because I don't think 22 00:01:31,116 --> 00:01:35,076 Speaker 3: anybody would care to hear that. Two, it's a waste 23 00:01:35,076 --> 00:01:37,916 Speaker 3: of time when you always have such precious. 24 00:01:37,436 --> 00:01:40,716 Speaker 2: Moments, right, that's right. Man. You can either use it 25 00:01:41,116 --> 00:01:43,876 Speaker 2: to complain or you can use it to compel, right. 26 00:01:43,956 --> 00:01:46,076 Speaker 1: And to propel. Man. You got a lot going man, 27 00:01:46,356 --> 00:01:49,796 Speaker 1: a lot going on, that's right. Since fourteen I remember 28 00:01:49,836 --> 00:01:53,596 Speaker 1: you busting out killing it. And now man, we're about 29 00:01:53,876 --> 00:01:55,676 Speaker 1: twenty five years later, and it says, if you're as 30 00:01:55,676 --> 00:01:57,436 Speaker 1: busy as you've ever been, man, tell me about what's 31 00:01:57,436 --> 00:01:57,836 Speaker 1: going on. 32 00:01:58,036 --> 00:02:01,316 Speaker 2: It's crazy, man, considering I'm only thirty years old. I mean, 33 00:02:01,356 --> 00:02:05,796 Speaker 2: I've been doing it since I was five. Man, there's 34 00:02:05,836 --> 00:02:07,516 Speaker 2: been a lot going on. Actually, a lot of really 35 00:02:07,596 --> 00:02:11,676 Speaker 2: great things. A career obviously that's been you know, constructed 36 00:02:11,716 --> 00:02:13,676 Speaker 2: over all of this time, in all of these years. 37 00:02:13,716 --> 00:02:16,076 Speaker 2: But more than anything, a celebration over the last few 38 00:02:16,156 --> 00:02:19,316 Speaker 2: years in Las Vegas with my Vegas residency is I 39 00:02:19,476 --> 00:02:21,756 Speaker 2: go back night after night listening to the songs and 40 00:02:21,836 --> 00:02:24,476 Speaker 2: kind of relive in some of the emotions. Obviously the 41 00:02:24,516 --> 00:02:26,676 Speaker 2: choreography and all the things that come with it. But 42 00:02:26,716 --> 00:02:31,196 Speaker 2: more than that, man, it's fun and excitement that I needed, 43 00:02:31,556 --> 00:02:34,596 Speaker 2: you know, I think all artists need a bit of motivation, 44 00:02:35,316 --> 00:02:37,876 Speaker 2: and rather it's an audience or either just the love 45 00:02:37,916 --> 00:02:39,716 Speaker 2: and passion of what you do. But being in front 46 00:02:39,716 --> 00:02:43,076 Speaker 2: of a live audience really, you know, kind of reignited 47 00:02:43,316 --> 00:02:46,316 Speaker 2: my passion and the energy, which is part of the 48 00:02:46,316 --> 00:02:49,676 Speaker 2: reason that I'm now dropping the music and also too 49 00:02:49,836 --> 00:02:52,436 Speaker 2: in the process of putting out another album, working on 50 00:02:52,476 --> 00:02:56,516 Speaker 2: other products and other ancillary things to what I do culturally. 51 00:02:56,556 --> 00:02:58,076 Speaker 2: You know, if you see the way I dress, or 52 00:02:58,156 --> 00:03:00,716 Speaker 2: do you see the products I'm using, whatever it might be, 53 00:03:01,036 --> 00:03:03,316 Speaker 2: all of those things are really your product of a 54 00:03:03,396 --> 00:03:06,116 Speaker 2: career man that has been do as you said, over 55 00:03:06,196 --> 00:03:09,996 Speaker 2: twenty years. It's crazy because I don't feel it is. Honestly, 56 00:03:10,116 --> 00:03:13,276 Speaker 2: you don't realize how older you are, I guess until 57 00:03:13,316 --> 00:03:15,996 Speaker 2: you think about your children. I have fourteen and a 58 00:03:15,996 --> 00:03:18,156 Speaker 2: fifteen year old, so I'm like, okay, apparently i must 59 00:03:18,196 --> 00:03:21,596 Speaker 2: be a bit older. But I'm not feeling like I'm 60 00:03:21,596 --> 00:03:23,956 Speaker 2: losing a beat because rather I'm playing you know, football 61 00:03:24,076 --> 00:03:25,956 Speaker 2: or basketball or any of those things with them. I'm 62 00:03:25,996 --> 00:03:26,436 Speaker 2: keeping up. 63 00:03:27,356 --> 00:03:29,596 Speaker 1: That's right, man. The kids keep you young and old. 64 00:03:29,636 --> 00:03:30,636 Speaker 1: It's a little bit of both. 65 00:03:30,956 --> 00:03:33,596 Speaker 2: They keep you wise. That's what I will say. Kids 66 00:03:33,636 --> 00:03:36,596 Speaker 2: they will challenge you and at the same time, they 67 00:03:36,676 --> 00:03:39,676 Speaker 2: will give you purpose and the reason you know, you 68 00:03:39,716 --> 00:03:42,556 Speaker 2: think about the things that matter. It's that time that 69 00:03:42,596 --> 00:03:46,276 Speaker 2: you have with them, them finding themselves that becomes more 70 00:03:46,316 --> 00:03:46,996 Speaker 2: of a priority. 71 00:03:47,116 --> 00:03:50,676 Speaker 1: You know, the new album. What did that energy start 72 00:03:50,716 --> 00:03:51,276 Speaker 1: to come together? 73 00:03:51,756 --> 00:03:55,756 Speaker 2: The energy of working on an album started a few 74 00:03:55,836 --> 00:03:58,596 Speaker 2: years ago, and there has been, you know, some hiccups 75 00:03:58,596 --> 00:04:01,156 Speaker 2: that obviously have caused you know, me not to just 76 00:04:01,196 --> 00:04:03,996 Speaker 2: put music out one the pandemic kind of sent everybody 77 00:04:04,036 --> 00:04:07,396 Speaker 2: into like a holding pattern. And then just you know, 78 00:04:07,556 --> 00:04:12,036 Speaker 2: deliberating over you know, just the process of analyzing right 79 00:04:12,756 --> 00:04:15,676 Speaker 2: what expectations are out there. Then you just kind of 80 00:04:15,796 --> 00:04:17,076 Speaker 2: get to a place where you're like, you know what 81 00:04:17,716 --> 00:04:19,476 Speaker 2: this is, what it is that I've been working on. 82 00:04:19,556 --> 00:04:22,796 Speaker 2: This is a an offering, you know. Rather, I'm talking 83 00:04:22,796 --> 00:04:25,796 Speaker 2: about things that I obviously can relate to because I 84 00:04:25,796 --> 00:04:28,196 Speaker 2: went through them, or either you can relate to because 85 00:04:28,636 --> 00:04:31,836 Speaker 2: you're going through them. But you know, now I'm ready 86 00:04:31,836 --> 00:04:34,516 Speaker 2: to share. I'm ready to share the music, I'm ready 87 00:04:34,556 --> 00:04:37,356 Speaker 2: to share the emotion, I'm ready to share the creativity. 88 00:04:37,796 --> 00:04:39,276 Speaker 2: Some of the things that I picked up over the 89 00:04:39,356 --> 00:04:42,236 Speaker 2: time that I've been making this album now I'm ready 90 00:04:42,316 --> 00:04:44,916 Speaker 2: to share it. What that is. I made a directorial 91 00:04:45,036 --> 00:04:48,996 Speaker 2: debut with a song that is really only a snippet 92 00:04:48,996 --> 00:04:52,076 Speaker 2: at this point Google, But I have to say that 93 00:04:52,116 --> 00:04:54,436 Speaker 2: a lot of it has been spun as a result 94 00:04:54,516 --> 00:04:57,396 Speaker 2: of my Las Vegas residency. When I did that, it 95 00:04:57,596 --> 00:05:01,996 Speaker 2: just again, It's just reignited, you know, my passion and 96 00:05:01,316 --> 00:05:04,916 Speaker 2: my connection to my audience and also to my connection 97 00:05:05,036 --> 00:05:05,676 Speaker 2: to my music. 98 00:05:06,756 --> 00:05:11,916 Speaker 1: Were you as backwards looking before you started the Vegas residency? 99 00:05:11,916 --> 00:05:14,556 Speaker 1: Were you kind of yeah, typically in a mode of 100 00:05:14,556 --> 00:05:17,556 Speaker 1: looking back at your career and thinking about different albums 101 00:05:17,596 --> 00:05:20,636 Speaker 1: and eras, or did this kind of help you to that. 102 00:05:21,636 --> 00:05:27,036 Speaker 2: Las Vegas specifically has always been about celebrating the songs 103 00:05:27,036 --> 00:05:29,716 Speaker 2: that you've had in the past. For me, it was 104 00:05:29,756 --> 00:05:31,356 Speaker 2: a little bit of that, but it was a celebration 105 00:05:31,436 --> 00:05:34,236 Speaker 2: of a genre, celebration of music because R and B 106 00:05:35,076 --> 00:05:37,836 Speaker 2: in that capacity hadn't really been there. You've had a 107 00:05:37,836 --> 00:05:41,316 Speaker 2: few artists you've had, you know, Marian Carey and also 108 00:05:41,396 --> 00:05:44,436 Speaker 2: to the a few more new recent artists that were 109 00:05:44,436 --> 00:05:48,316 Speaker 2: working in Las Vegas like Bruno Mars and then this impact, 110 00:05:48,436 --> 00:05:51,796 Speaker 2: but that culture of R and B music and live 111 00:05:51,836 --> 00:05:54,796 Speaker 2: performance in the way that I do it. It wasn't there, 112 00:05:55,396 --> 00:05:56,876 Speaker 2: so I don't know if I ever looked at it 113 00:05:56,876 --> 00:05:58,916 Speaker 2: as looking back. I looked at it as let me 114 00:05:58,996 --> 00:06:01,836 Speaker 2: go back for a second to remind you of what 115 00:06:02,116 --> 00:06:05,676 Speaker 2: this level of performance and entertainment is ultimately about, and 116 00:06:05,756 --> 00:06:08,636 Speaker 2: the fact that this culture doesn't exist here. Things that 117 00:06:08,676 --> 00:06:11,956 Speaker 2: I on stage, you know, I mean, I don't know 118 00:06:11,956 --> 00:06:13,516 Speaker 2: if you've ever been to my show, but I take 119 00:06:13,556 --> 00:06:18,076 Speaker 2: you on a complete ride through Atlanta through black culture. 120 00:06:18,516 --> 00:06:22,716 Speaker 2: There's you know, certain views of like you know, jazz 121 00:06:23,156 --> 00:06:27,036 Speaker 2: and obviously live music, and the idea of like being 122 00:06:27,116 --> 00:06:30,836 Speaker 2: in this impromptu moment or improv that happens. You know, 123 00:06:30,916 --> 00:06:33,996 Speaker 2: these unexpected things and unexpected guests that might come out 124 00:06:33,996 --> 00:06:35,996 Speaker 2: on the stage. All of those things are part of 125 00:06:36,036 --> 00:06:39,156 Speaker 2: what an R and B show has always offered in time. 126 00:06:39,556 --> 00:06:41,396 Speaker 2: So it gave me the opportunity to do that and 127 00:06:41,396 --> 00:06:44,196 Speaker 2: then experimenting with other things like skating on stage, and 128 00:06:44,316 --> 00:06:47,436 Speaker 2: I just really I had fun. So again I didn't 129 00:06:47,436 --> 00:06:50,116 Speaker 2: look at it as looking back. The music from the 130 00:06:50,156 --> 00:06:52,396 Speaker 2: soundtrack of My life, which is the songs that are hits, 131 00:06:52,676 --> 00:06:55,596 Speaker 2: they take you back, But I'm moving forward in terms 132 00:06:55,636 --> 00:06:58,636 Speaker 2: of how I introduced this to you and how immersed 133 00:06:58,796 --> 00:07:01,156 Speaker 2: you are in this experience. You don't feel like you're 134 00:07:01,156 --> 00:07:03,516 Speaker 2: going to a show. You feel like you're having an experience. 135 00:07:03,796 --> 00:07:06,956 Speaker 2: You don't feel like you're watching a live experience. You 136 00:07:06,956 --> 00:07:11,076 Speaker 2: know that it's just singing and no, you were completely 137 00:07:11,156 --> 00:07:13,796 Speaker 2: immersed from the moment you walk into the theater to 138 00:07:13,836 --> 00:07:17,756 Speaker 2: the moment that you leave the nightclub. You're completely in 139 00:07:17,836 --> 00:07:20,156 Speaker 2: my passion. You're in the passion of what it is 140 00:07:20,196 --> 00:07:25,236 Speaker 2: that I created, both musically and also too as an experience. 141 00:07:26,116 --> 00:07:29,036 Speaker 1: I love that it's such a send up to like 142 00:07:29,196 --> 00:07:31,436 Speaker 1: R and B, such a celebration of the genre, man, 143 00:07:31,476 --> 00:07:34,356 Speaker 1: because you know, it's funny. I was having a conversation 144 00:07:34,756 --> 00:07:37,276 Speaker 1: for the podcast with Babyface a couple of weeks ago, 145 00:07:38,036 --> 00:07:40,956 Speaker 1: and it dawned on me through talking to him that 146 00:07:41,116 --> 00:07:44,236 Speaker 1: the era that you came up in the nineties really 147 00:07:44,516 --> 00:07:47,196 Speaker 1: was the era of like R and B just being 148 00:07:47,676 --> 00:07:50,596 Speaker 1: the mainstream popular music of the day, man. You know, 149 00:07:50,716 --> 00:07:53,996 Speaker 1: whereas at some point it was race music, at some 150 00:07:54,036 --> 00:07:56,756 Speaker 1: point it was segregated the black charts. By the nineties, man, 151 00:07:56,756 --> 00:07:58,316 Speaker 1: when you guys were what you guys were doing with 152 00:07:58,356 --> 00:08:01,636 Speaker 1: the face, it became like a driver of the culture. 153 00:08:01,916 --> 00:08:05,476 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I'll say this, was it more relevant because 154 00:08:05,476 --> 00:08:10,036 Speaker 2: it became defiant and things and genres that were established, 155 00:08:10,036 --> 00:08:12,316 Speaker 2: like hip hop became more relevant. And then the mixing 156 00:08:12,356 --> 00:08:14,276 Speaker 2: of R and B and hip hop together made it 157 00:08:14,316 --> 00:08:18,956 Speaker 2: feel dangerous, I'd say that, but it was dangerous way before, 158 00:08:19,316 --> 00:08:22,076 Speaker 2: and it was those other coaches of music are genres 159 00:08:22,116 --> 00:08:24,876 Speaker 2: of music, if you want to call them that, that 160 00:08:25,756 --> 00:08:30,396 Speaker 2: were bastardizing in ways. You know, this incredible thing called jazz. 161 00:08:30,476 --> 00:08:34,036 Speaker 2: Jazz is the creation of all things man, all things musical. Rather, 162 00:08:34,076 --> 00:08:38,436 Speaker 2: it's rock. Rather, it's ideas of classical things. Right, we 163 00:08:38,556 --> 00:08:42,796 Speaker 2: think about how R and B was established, It was jazz, 164 00:08:43,156 --> 00:08:46,156 Speaker 2: and then from that all other things come. In my opinion, 165 00:08:46,196 --> 00:08:47,916 Speaker 2: I think that there was a formal way of listening 166 00:08:47,916 --> 00:08:51,516 Speaker 2: to music, which is orchestrated, and that's a different practice. 167 00:08:51,756 --> 00:08:55,196 Speaker 2: But the things that you feel, the emotion, the storytelling, 168 00:08:56,036 --> 00:09:00,436 Speaker 2: that's jazz. And rather, through the thirties, forties, you know, 169 00:09:00,476 --> 00:09:02,796 Speaker 2: and then making your way up into the fifties, sixties 170 00:09:02,836 --> 00:09:05,476 Speaker 2: and seventies, R and B was kind of on the 171 00:09:05,516 --> 00:09:08,156 Speaker 2: back burner, but it was always supplying. Jazz was always 172 00:09:08,156 --> 00:09:12,556 Speaker 2: supplying to all those other genres. Yeah, So in my mind, 173 00:09:12,636 --> 00:09:15,196 Speaker 2: I take ownership of that for those people. Even though 174 00:09:15,436 --> 00:09:18,596 Speaker 2: we were racially segregated and maybe black, you know, performers 175 00:09:18,636 --> 00:09:22,556 Speaker 2: were not celebrated. They couldn't even walk through the very 176 00:09:22,596 --> 00:09:26,396 Speaker 2: places that they were performing in. So yeah, I think 177 00:09:26,436 --> 00:09:29,036 Speaker 2: you're right. You know, through the nineties, R and B 178 00:09:29,156 --> 00:09:32,476 Speaker 2: had a moment where it was more relevant than others 179 00:09:32,676 --> 00:09:35,316 Speaker 2: and it felt dangerous. Rock and roll, for one, it 180 00:09:35,316 --> 00:09:38,396 Speaker 2: felt dangerous. If you look at DM and all of 181 00:09:38,396 --> 00:09:42,516 Speaker 2: those other things hip hop, it felt dangerous. So there's 182 00:09:42,556 --> 00:09:46,676 Speaker 2: a sophistication that R and B had and has always 183 00:09:46,756 --> 00:09:51,756 Speaker 2: had that popular music or popular genre has been able 184 00:09:51,796 --> 00:09:54,636 Speaker 2: to adopt. But it ain't ever went away. I think 185 00:09:54,676 --> 00:09:56,916 Speaker 2: that it's always been there. And so long as you 186 00:09:57,036 --> 00:10:01,636 Speaker 2: hear those those hues of what is jazz, those hues 187 00:10:01,676 --> 00:10:05,356 Speaker 2: of what is blue, those hues of what is soul music, 188 00:10:05,876 --> 00:10:08,756 Speaker 2: then that shit is R and B. That ain't what 189 00:10:08,836 --> 00:10:13,116 Speaker 2: you think. It's not the genre that was claimed, it's 190 00:10:13,156 --> 00:10:15,996 Speaker 2: the inspiration that was provided. You know what I'm saying. 191 00:10:17,556 --> 00:10:19,356 Speaker 1: We'll be back after a quick break with more of 192 00:10:19,396 --> 00:10:27,316 Speaker 1: my conversation with Usher. We're back with more from Usher. 193 00:10:28,276 --> 00:10:30,276 Speaker 1: You're right about, like R and B having this sort 194 00:10:30,276 --> 00:10:32,676 Speaker 1: of dangerous feel to it, too in the nineties, and 195 00:10:33,036 --> 00:10:35,996 Speaker 1: it was almost an accident because you get discovered by 196 00:10:36,116 --> 00:10:38,836 Speaker 1: La Reid and get signed on the face, but because 197 00:10:39,476 --> 00:10:41,156 Speaker 1: La didn't exactly know what to do with you in 198 00:10:41,196 --> 00:10:43,596 Speaker 1: the beginning, you get sent to go work with Puff 199 00:10:44,276 --> 00:10:46,196 Speaker 1: and it's like you kind of get immersed in a 200 00:10:46,436 --> 00:10:48,956 Speaker 1: you kind of have this dual world happening, man, between 201 00:10:49,276 --> 00:10:51,636 Speaker 1: the R and B that you aspire to do and 202 00:10:52,156 --> 00:10:55,156 Speaker 1: now you're hanging with Puff and even kind of more 203 00:10:55,196 --> 00:10:57,636 Speaker 1: dangerous R and B cats like Davante Swing, kind of 204 00:10:57,636 --> 00:11:00,596 Speaker 1: more edgy cats. You know, how was that moment for you? 205 00:11:00,636 --> 00:11:00,716 Speaker 2: Man? 206 00:11:00,716 --> 00:11:03,396 Speaker 1: It seems like real like the stars aligned to have 207 00:11:03,436 --> 00:11:04,716 Speaker 1: that moment happen for you. Man. 208 00:11:05,076 --> 00:11:07,676 Speaker 2: Yeah, before you get to like DeVante's Swing and New 209 00:11:07,756 --> 00:11:11,196 Speaker 2: York's contribution to be and hip hop, you got the Parliament, 210 00:11:11,316 --> 00:11:14,156 Speaker 2: you gotta go, you know those guys you got to 211 00:11:14,196 --> 00:11:17,396 Speaker 2: go to. You know, R and B was dangerous much 212 00:11:17,436 --> 00:11:24,036 Speaker 2: earlier than that, and my working with Puff was, you know, 213 00:11:24,076 --> 00:11:27,076 Speaker 2: a matter of La Reid's vision to see that the 214 00:11:27,316 --> 00:11:30,436 Speaker 2: entrepreneur that Puff was was going to grow. You know, 215 00:11:30,556 --> 00:11:35,316 Speaker 2: until La Reid introduced the world to Sean Buffy Combs, 216 00:11:35,476 --> 00:11:37,596 Speaker 2: you didn't know nothing about bad boy. You didn't even 217 00:11:37,676 --> 00:11:40,436 Speaker 2: understand what it had to offer it, which meant, you know, 218 00:11:40,516 --> 00:11:43,116 Speaker 2: you might have even glassed over, you know what he 219 00:11:43,156 --> 00:11:47,756 Speaker 2: did with Joe to See and Uptown Records. So I 220 00:11:47,756 --> 00:11:51,716 Speaker 2: think it was really the sophistication between La Reids helping 221 00:11:51,996 --> 00:11:54,916 Speaker 2: people like Puff to be able to find his life, 222 00:11:54,996 --> 00:11:57,516 Speaker 2: or Dallas Austin and Jermaine Duprie, or any of the 223 00:11:57,516 --> 00:11:59,956 Speaker 2: guys that he had hit records with, Rico Wade with 224 00:12:00,756 --> 00:12:03,876 Speaker 2: organized Noise, all of those things. That was a matter 225 00:12:03,916 --> 00:12:07,196 Speaker 2: of sophistication in La Reads, blending of the two worlds 226 00:12:07,236 --> 00:12:10,236 Speaker 2: to make it dangerous. Yeah, Joasy was hip hop. It 227 00:12:10,236 --> 00:12:12,116 Speaker 2: almost looked like a rock band that was R and B. 228 00:12:12,596 --> 00:12:16,156 Speaker 2: You know, Mary j has always been, you know, this 229 00:12:16,276 --> 00:12:19,556 Speaker 2: incredible soul singer that was just pulling her heart out. 230 00:12:19,716 --> 00:12:22,356 Speaker 2: You know, I'll be sure you know, heavy D all 231 00:12:22,356 --> 00:12:24,076 Speaker 2: of those guys from that time that were setting a 232 00:12:24,116 --> 00:12:26,356 Speaker 2: standard that would be no Shaggy and all of those 233 00:12:26,356 --> 00:12:29,716 Speaker 2: guys if you didn't have a heavy D. So when 234 00:12:29,716 --> 00:12:33,916 Speaker 2: I think about what I gained from working with Puffy 235 00:12:33,996 --> 00:12:36,716 Speaker 2: and being in New York City and spending an entire 236 00:12:36,796 --> 00:12:39,116 Speaker 2: year with him making my first album, it gave me 237 00:12:39,196 --> 00:12:42,156 Speaker 2: all the fuel that I need to be not only 238 00:12:42,196 --> 00:12:45,796 Speaker 2: the creative but also to the innovator that discovers talent 239 00:12:45,836 --> 00:12:48,596 Speaker 2: and knows how to develop it as well using it 240 00:12:48,596 --> 00:12:51,756 Speaker 2: for myself or either helping them find their way. There 241 00:12:51,836 --> 00:12:56,236 Speaker 2: was something so fundamental about his creation and his idea 242 00:12:56,276 --> 00:12:59,116 Speaker 2: of branding. It wasn't just about being a singer. You 243 00:12:59,116 --> 00:13:01,676 Speaker 2: could be a great fucking singer. That don't matter if 244 00:13:01,676 --> 00:13:04,396 Speaker 2: I don't feel like I'm getting it. It's dangerous dealing 245 00:13:04,436 --> 00:13:06,756 Speaker 2: with you, and it's like, man, why am I looking 246 00:13:06,796 --> 00:13:08,716 Speaker 2: at you? Why do I care about you? I learned 247 00:13:08,716 --> 00:13:11,876 Speaker 2: all of that from the School of Puff, and then 248 00:13:11,956 --> 00:13:16,316 Speaker 2: from there it became relationship, and it became the life 249 00:13:16,356 --> 00:13:19,476 Speaker 2: story and understanding where the person was, what their views were, 250 00:13:19,516 --> 00:13:22,596 Speaker 2: and what, you know, choices they made, how they dressed, 251 00:13:22,996 --> 00:13:24,836 Speaker 2: you know, what type of shit they got into it. 252 00:13:25,636 --> 00:13:28,716 Speaker 2: It became something far more than just listening to the music. 253 00:13:28,756 --> 00:13:32,276 Speaker 2: You fell in love with the artist, so I wanted that. 254 00:13:32,436 --> 00:13:35,956 Speaker 2: I'm like, okay, great. So then we didn't make a 255 00:13:35,996 --> 00:13:39,836 Speaker 2: hit album together, but we had a hit record on 256 00:13:39,876 --> 00:13:43,476 Speaker 2: it working with DeVante Swim you know, man, believe it 257 00:13:43,596 --> 00:13:46,356 Speaker 2: or not being around Biggie earlier in the days when 258 00:13:46,356 --> 00:13:50,156 Speaker 2: he was being introduced Craig mag total being in New 259 00:13:50,196 --> 00:13:52,996 Speaker 2: York City, like going to Mount Vernon, being you know, 260 00:13:53,316 --> 00:13:56,356 Speaker 2: and being under the wing of Heady D and being 261 00:13:56,356 --> 00:13:58,836 Speaker 2: able to see how you move and work with these 262 00:13:58,876 --> 00:14:01,156 Speaker 2: genre work with like hip hop and R and B together, 263 00:14:01,556 --> 00:14:03,876 Speaker 2: all of those things. I gained. All of that now 264 00:14:03,996 --> 00:14:06,796 Speaker 2: left and after that made my way, came back to 265 00:14:06,836 --> 00:14:09,876 Speaker 2: Atlanta and worked with JD and we made it increndible music, 266 00:14:09,916 --> 00:14:13,516 Speaker 2: incrontable music together that now serviced all of what I 267 00:14:13,556 --> 00:14:16,236 Speaker 2: know about being an artist. But yeah, a lot of 268 00:14:16,276 --> 00:14:18,356 Speaker 2: hit records came out of that by Way eighty seven 269 00:14:18,396 --> 00:14:20,876 Speaker 2: oh one Confessions, and we kept going and we are 270 00:14:20,916 --> 00:14:24,956 Speaker 2: still going. But yeah, I think that the one thing 271 00:14:24,996 --> 00:14:27,556 Speaker 2: you might be overlooking is the danger and also to 272 00:14:28,236 --> 00:14:33,316 Speaker 2: the sophistication that La Red had to create a blend, right, Yeah, 273 00:14:33,396 --> 00:14:35,996 Speaker 2: because that man had insight. That man had the ability 274 00:14:36,036 --> 00:14:39,236 Speaker 2: to see for real before everybody else saw for real. 275 00:14:39,316 --> 00:14:42,036 Speaker 2: That man had the ability to see you know, Jay 276 00:14:42,076 --> 00:14:44,556 Speaker 2: Z and make him an executive that now we respect 277 00:14:44,556 --> 00:14:49,196 Speaker 2: as a businessman because he saw something more. The sophistication 278 00:14:49,316 --> 00:14:53,236 Speaker 2: of understanding how to grow black entrepreneurs and black creatives 279 00:14:53,236 --> 00:14:55,436 Speaker 2: to a place and lift them up is what I 280 00:14:55,476 --> 00:15:00,556 Speaker 2: think happened with La and really made what we celebrate 281 00:15:00,596 --> 00:15:01,716 Speaker 2: as a culture in music. 282 00:15:02,196 --> 00:15:04,316 Speaker 1: Where do you think your sophistication came from? Because it 283 00:15:04,636 --> 00:15:06,476 Speaker 1: just feels like you had it so early, like from 284 00:15:06,516 --> 00:15:08,916 Speaker 1: the beginning, like even though the first record wasn't hit record, 285 00:15:09,236 --> 00:15:11,076 Speaker 1: like you came just ready made. 286 00:15:11,156 --> 00:15:13,596 Speaker 2: Already made is in the work, my work ethic is 287 00:15:13,636 --> 00:15:16,076 Speaker 2: where that's what makes the difference. I learned the skill 288 00:15:16,276 --> 00:15:18,276 Speaker 2: of being in the environment of people. If you want 289 00:15:18,276 --> 00:15:20,316 Speaker 2: to be great, if that's surround yourself around great people, 290 00:15:21,116 --> 00:15:26,316 Speaker 2: La Reid, Sean, Puffy Combs, Jermaine Duprie, Dallas Austin, you know, 291 00:15:26,396 --> 00:15:30,076 Speaker 2: working with the greats, you know, and then creating really incredible, 292 00:15:30,156 --> 00:15:32,796 Speaker 2: amazing one offs, like you know, we did records with 293 00:15:32,836 --> 00:15:34,796 Speaker 2: Pharrell for the first time. But being able to have 294 00:15:34,876 --> 00:15:38,716 Speaker 2: access to these guys, and I look at my you know, 295 00:15:38,796 --> 00:15:41,316 Speaker 2: all of the reconsented things that I've been able to create. 296 00:15:41,516 --> 00:15:43,636 Speaker 2: I got a really really dope click of people who 297 00:15:44,276 --> 00:15:46,316 Speaker 2: have been a part of my legacy. It ain't just 298 00:15:46,396 --> 00:15:50,396 Speaker 2: one person, It's an entire world of people who who 299 00:15:51,036 --> 00:15:53,436 Speaker 2: have all of these different views of R and B 300 00:15:53,516 --> 00:15:55,756 Speaker 2: and hip hop and the way they play with it 301 00:15:55,916 --> 00:15:58,956 Speaker 2: and the way they may make things. It's like it's 302 00:15:59,036 --> 00:16:01,396 Speaker 2: like nothing else that you can't you can't compare it 303 00:16:01,436 --> 00:16:02,796 Speaker 2: to anything else. 304 00:16:02,876 --> 00:16:05,756 Speaker 1: Man, you really have multiple worlds of music colliding all 305 00:16:05,796 --> 00:16:09,516 Speaker 1: through your catalog, really, and cats like early and has 306 00:16:09,516 --> 00:16:12,036 Speaker 1: interesting points in the career, like when you're working with Jimmy, 307 00:16:12,076 --> 00:16:14,236 Speaker 1: Jame and Terry Lewis, Like you got them kind of 308 00:16:14,276 --> 00:16:16,476 Speaker 1: like a real interesting point in my view, and it's 309 00:16:16,516 --> 00:16:17,876 Speaker 1: just catalog's crazy. 310 00:16:18,476 --> 00:16:22,116 Speaker 2: You asked where the sophistication comes from. The sophistication comes from. 311 00:16:22,476 --> 00:16:25,356 Speaker 2: You know the gurus like Jimmy, Jimmys, tay Lewis, like 312 00:16:26,076 --> 00:16:28,316 Speaker 2: l A. Reid maybe face you know, those are the 313 00:16:28,356 --> 00:16:31,636 Speaker 2: guys who were like they were like the oracles man 314 00:16:31,676 --> 00:16:35,156 Speaker 2: they would have They're like the Jedies. They they made 315 00:16:35,236 --> 00:16:37,636 Speaker 2: you understand what it was to be an artist and 316 00:16:37,676 --> 00:16:41,996 Speaker 2: how to make things last, being able to have ships 317 00:16:42,076 --> 00:16:46,516 Speaker 2: like Quincy Jones. And then you know the young Jedies 318 00:16:46,756 --> 00:16:49,916 Speaker 2: like you know, like Jermaine Dupree, He's avocate, you know 319 00:16:49,916 --> 00:16:52,436 Speaker 2: what I'm saying, Like, just, yeah. 320 00:16:52,876 --> 00:16:54,396 Speaker 1: When did you first meet Quincy Jones? 321 00:16:54,396 --> 00:16:57,956 Speaker 2: Man? I first met Quincy. I walked into a Tommy 322 00:16:57,996 --> 00:17:01,476 Speaker 2: Hill Figure. It was a Tommy Hill Figure show in 323 00:17:01,756 --> 00:17:04,356 Speaker 2: New York City. It was me and Leah, I think 324 00:17:04,356 --> 00:17:06,676 Speaker 2: it was. It was a ton of relevant artists at 325 00:17:06,676 --> 00:17:08,876 Speaker 2: that time. He had us walk in the show, and 326 00:17:08,956 --> 00:17:11,396 Speaker 2: that was the first time that Q kind of put 327 00:17:11,436 --> 00:17:14,316 Speaker 2: his crew together, so we were his crew for the night. 328 00:17:14,996 --> 00:17:18,876 Speaker 2: And from that it's find a really great relationship of friendship. 329 00:17:19,276 --> 00:17:22,156 Speaker 2: He's been a godfather to me ever since that day, 330 00:17:22,716 --> 00:17:25,396 Speaker 2: you know, and my conversations with him, believe it or not, 331 00:17:25,556 --> 00:17:28,556 Speaker 2: were not about music as much as it was what 332 00:17:28,716 --> 00:17:31,956 Speaker 2: is your contribution to life? He turned me into a philanthropist. 333 00:17:32,236 --> 00:17:35,716 Speaker 2: He began to help me understand that there's much more 334 00:17:35,756 --> 00:17:39,476 Speaker 2: of a responsibility to kind of lay groundwork and remind 335 00:17:39,476 --> 00:17:41,596 Speaker 2: people that it's not just about music. It's also to 336 00:17:42,276 --> 00:17:45,276 Speaker 2: about opening your eyes with the world's eyes to things 337 00:17:45,316 --> 00:17:48,236 Speaker 2: that need to be addressed, you know, advocating for things 338 00:17:48,276 --> 00:17:51,196 Speaker 2: that you think you know do matter and will matter 339 00:17:51,476 --> 00:17:54,636 Speaker 2: for you know, generations to come and even for the 340 00:17:54,636 --> 00:17:58,636 Speaker 2: current time. But yeah, a great relationship, So that's sophistication, 341 00:17:59,356 --> 00:18:02,436 Speaker 2: you know. It comes from those relationships, relationships with the 342 00:18:02,436 --> 00:18:05,836 Speaker 2: guys who've been here before, the elders, the guys who understand. 343 00:18:06,356 --> 00:18:09,836 Speaker 2: You know, it's odd and this time because everything's so young, right, 344 00:18:10,116 --> 00:18:14,236 Speaker 2: and everything's so vibrant, and everything's so defiant. But really, man, 345 00:18:14,476 --> 00:18:17,156 Speaker 2: our elders are the ones that matter. They got something 346 00:18:17,196 --> 00:18:19,996 Speaker 2: to teach us, and we really do learn from listening 347 00:18:20,036 --> 00:18:22,356 Speaker 2: to them. So you got to listen to the ogs. 348 00:18:22,996 --> 00:18:26,356 Speaker 2: You know, they are the gatekeepers and they make the difference. Yes, 349 00:18:26,556 --> 00:18:29,076 Speaker 2: there is a new frontier of people who are just 350 00:18:29,076 --> 00:18:32,636 Speaker 2: speaking out for how they feel and being loud about it. 351 00:18:32,676 --> 00:18:37,596 Speaker 2: But sophistication, man, longevity comes from listening to your elders. 352 00:18:37,836 --> 00:18:40,156 Speaker 2: You want to make it last forever, and you got 353 00:18:40,156 --> 00:18:42,556 Speaker 2: to listen to your elders, listen to the ones that 354 00:18:43,036 --> 00:18:45,236 Speaker 2: have been here. Even if you think what they're telling 355 00:18:45,276 --> 00:18:48,476 Speaker 2: you ain't relevant to what you think or what you feel. 356 00:18:48,556 --> 00:18:50,996 Speaker 2: Right now, they got something to share with you, and 357 00:18:51,116 --> 00:18:55,836 Speaker 2: that that sophistication and longevity comes from there, their will 358 00:18:55,876 --> 00:18:56,436 Speaker 2: of knowledge. 359 00:18:56,436 --> 00:19:00,236 Speaker 1: Man, it's beautiful to you already. That's such a young 360 00:19:00,316 --> 00:19:03,116 Speaker 1: tender age man. Just to accept that wisdom, man, and 361 00:19:03,156 --> 00:19:05,756 Speaker 1: listen because you know, and then also not to take 362 00:19:05,836 --> 00:19:08,476 Speaker 1: what they tell you, incorporate it and also find your 363 00:19:08,476 --> 00:19:11,756 Speaker 1: own way it your own way, man, because certainly, looking 364 00:19:11,796 --> 00:19:15,876 Speaker 1: at your catalog, your career, it's a totally unique path 365 00:19:15,916 --> 00:19:16,396 Speaker 1: that you took. 366 00:19:16,836 --> 00:19:20,596 Speaker 2: Their commitment and their dedication is what I saw, and 367 00:19:21,236 --> 00:19:23,836 Speaker 2: I become them in time. I don't know. Like I 368 00:19:23,836 --> 00:19:26,276 Speaker 2: said on Monday, thirty years old, you know what I'm saying, 369 00:19:26,316 --> 00:19:33,396 Speaker 2: So over time, hopefully I'll be able to share that 370 00:19:33,476 --> 00:19:37,036 Speaker 2: information that ends that wisdom with the artists that are coming. 371 00:19:37,396 --> 00:19:40,076 Speaker 1: Speaking of Quincy, is there any truth to the idea 372 00:19:40,196 --> 00:19:43,476 Speaker 1: that Tevin Campbell's second record, I'm ready some of those 373 00:19:43,516 --> 00:19:46,036 Speaker 1: songs a supposed to be written for you. 374 00:19:46,116 --> 00:19:48,596 Speaker 2: Now many people have said that, no, Tevin Campbell's songs 375 00:19:48,596 --> 00:19:51,476 Speaker 2: were Tevin cambell songs and my songs were my songs. 376 00:19:51,796 --> 00:19:55,276 Speaker 2: The reality is, I think La Reid and Baby Facebook 377 00:19:55,356 --> 00:19:57,716 Speaker 2: kind of going through a transition when they worked together 378 00:19:57,756 --> 00:20:01,076 Speaker 2: and when I first signed as an artist, so I 379 00:20:01,156 --> 00:20:05,756 Speaker 2: probably didn't get a chance to receive, you know, the 380 00:20:05,796 --> 00:20:11,236 Speaker 2: love and the benefit of what Baby Face offered my 381 00:20:11,316 --> 00:20:14,316 Speaker 2: first album. But I later on became great friends with him. 382 00:20:14,356 --> 00:20:16,596 Speaker 2: I just seen him in Atlanta. You know, he's still 383 00:20:16,636 --> 00:20:19,156 Speaker 2: an og I love him, and rather he was writing 384 00:20:19,156 --> 00:20:21,196 Speaker 2: songs for me. He still was a motivation. I still 385 00:20:21,236 --> 00:20:24,316 Speaker 2: looked at Whipple Peel and was influenced by that. Matter 386 00:20:24,316 --> 00:20:26,436 Speaker 2: of fact, the song that actually, you know, spun it 387 00:20:26,476 --> 00:20:28,596 Speaker 2: off and started it off for me was a song 388 00:20:28,636 --> 00:20:30,956 Speaker 2: that he wrote. He and La Reed together wrote that 389 00:20:31,036 --> 00:20:33,476 Speaker 2: record End of the Road, End of the Road, Yeah 390 00:20:33,916 --> 00:20:38,676 Speaker 2: by buys Men, But I'm ready those songs they belonged 391 00:20:38,676 --> 00:20:41,916 Speaker 2: to Tavin Campbell. What I did with Puff and my 392 00:20:42,036 --> 00:20:44,836 Speaker 2: first album, it was what it was. I did not 393 00:20:44,956 --> 00:20:47,996 Speaker 2: get that record that I wanted my first album. When 394 00:20:48,036 --> 00:20:52,356 Speaker 2: I listened to Can We Talk? I felt slighted because 395 00:20:52,356 --> 00:20:54,356 Speaker 2: I was like, damn, I wanted that record. I wanted 396 00:20:54,356 --> 00:20:57,636 Speaker 2: a record that I wonder if that song was for me, Nah, 397 00:20:57,636 --> 00:20:59,836 Speaker 2: it wasn't. I think it was always Tavian Campbell's song. 398 00:21:00,396 --> 00:21:04,876 Speaker 2: And I know that, you know face he was going 399 00:21:04,916 --> 00:21:07,636 Speaker 2: through something, I guess at the moment with La and 400 00:21:07,676 --> 00:21:09,396 Speaker 2: we just didn't work together my first out. 401 00:21:09,756 --> 00:21:12,436 Speaker 1: It that goes to, like again it being sort of 402 00:21:12,436 --> 00:21:15,076 Speaker 1: serendipitous that you get to work, you get to be 403 00:21:15,156 --> 00:21:17,796 Speaker 1: on the face and have a lot of what comes 404 00:21:17,836 --> 00:21:20,716 Speaker 1: with that, but then also kind of get to kind 405 00:21:20,716 --> 00:21:22,436 Speaker 1: of go your own route and go work with Puff 406 00:21:22,476 --> 00:21:25,116 Speaker 1: and you kind of got the face plus more in 407 00:21:25,156 --> 00:21:27,716 Speaker 1: a lot of ways, which was I imagine must have been free. 408 00:21:28,196 --> 00:21:30,436 Speaker 2: It was out of my control. I would have wanted 409 00:21:30,476 --> 00:21:33,556 Speaker 2: to work with Babyface, they were just going through something 410 00:21:33,556 --> 00:21:37,676 Speaker 2: that wouldn't allow it to happen in the time. But yeah, 411 00:21:37,116 --> 00:21:40,916 Speaker 2: it's it's a manifestation. I remember being in Chattanooga, Tennessee, 412 00:21:41,716 --> 00:21:44,356 Speaker 2: and me and my mother talking about going to Atlanta 413 00:21:44,716 --> 00:21:49,116 Speaker 2: and potentially meeting La Reid and Babyface and signing to 414 00:21:49,196 --> 00:21:52,436 Speaker 2: their label. That's why we came to Atlanta. For me, 415 00:21:52,996 --> 00:21:55,356 Speaker 2: she came to Atlanta because it was a you know, 416 00:21:55,916 --> 00:22:00,036 Speaker 2: it was an elevation from Chattanooga, and it's more opportunity 417 00:22:00,196 --> 00:22:03,156 Speaker 2: for her as a as a woman and also to 418 00:22:03,556 --> 00:22:06,556 Speaker 2: her employment at the time. But for me, it was 419 00:22:06,596 --> 00:22:10,116 Speaker 2: a true opportunity to meet some executive and maybe turn 420 00:22:10,196 --> 00:22:12,516 Speaker 2: this talent into something that would take care of us 421 00:22:13,076 --> 00:22:15,156 Speaker 2: because I was not taking enough for an answer. In 422 00:22:15,196 --> 00:22:18,756 Speaker 2: my mind, I knew I would perform, but like I 423 00:22:18,836 --> 00:22:21,996 Speaker 2: had a red diet on where I wanted to be, 424 00:22:22,396 --> 00:22:25,596 Speaker 2: I was performing. We maybe faced the songs rather it 425 00:22:25,636 --> 00:22:28,436 Speaker 2: was Bobby Brown or Boys to Men or any of 426 00:22:28,476 --> 00:22:31,916 Speaker 2: the other artists that they've worked with, and rock Steady 427 00:22:31,996 --> 00:22:35,356 Speaker 2: was on repeat, you know, by the Whispers for my 428 00:22:35,396 --> 00:22:37,396 Speaker 2: Mom for my Mom. So I was always listening to 429 00:22:37,556 --> 00:22:39,956 Speaker 2: La Reed and Baby Faces production. I didn't realize it, 430 00:22:40,476 --> 00:22:43,996 Speaker 2: but I finally made it to Atlanta, and I didn't 431 00:22:43,996 --> 00:22:46,956 Speaker 2: know who La Reed was. I just knew that they 432 00:22:46,996 --> 00:22:48,916 Speaker 2: had a hit record on the radio and I loved 433 00:22:48,996 --> 00:22:51,076 Speaker 2: singing it, and if I could get people to pay 434 00:22:51,116 --> 00:22:54,516 Speaker 2: attention to me, maybe I could get to them. And 435 00:22:54,876 --> 00:22:57,316 Speaker 2: it happened. It was a manifestation I called it, and 436 00:22:57,356 --> 00:23:00,956 Speaker 2: to existence, I said it, and we went after it, 437 00:23:00,996 --> 00:23:03,116 Speaker 2: and me and my mother we made it happen. 438 00:23:03,756 --> 00:23:05,716 Speaker 1: We're going to take one last break and then be 439 00:23:05,756 --> 00:23:12,396 Speaker 1: back with more from us here. We're back with the 440 00:23:12,436 --> 00:23:15,476 Speaker 1: rest of my conversation with us here. What do you 441 00:23:15,476 --> 00:23:19,956 Speaker 1: think happened between making a really great first record that, honestly, 442 00:23:19,996 --> 00:23:22,076 Speaker 1: I think still holds up as one of the great 443 00:23:22,076 --> 00:23:25,036 Speaker 1: records of that early nineties R and B era, But 444 00:23:25,116 --> 00:23:28,556 Speaker 1: what happened you think between then and My Way where 445 00:23:28,596 --> 00:23:32,396 Speaker 1: you kind of were able to create a hit record. 446 00:23:32,996 --> 00:23:35,556 Speaker 2: I think, first of all, Buffy was ahead of his 447 00:23:35,716 --> 00:23:39,196 Speaker 2: time in terms of what he created with my first 448 00:23:39,196 --> 00:23:43,116 Speaker 2: album that would ultimately become the stable of what R 449 00:23:43,156 --> 00:23:46,156 Speaker 2: and B artists in my age group would go after. 450 00:23:46,636 --> 00:23:49,636 Speaker 2: So he was way ahead. I think it just it 451 00:23:49,716 --> 00:23:52,636 Speaker 2: might have been a little bit too mature, and now 452 00:23:52,716 --> 00:23:55,636 Speaker 2: looking at things, it's like they busting it wide open 453 00:23:55,676 --> 00:23:57,556 Speaker 2: and that pussy with you know what I'm saying, this 454 00:23:57,756 --> 00:24:00,716 Speaker 2: crazy type of shit that they say now, which, hey, 455 00:24:01,236 --> 00:24:03,156 Speaker 2: it's an interpretation and you should be able to say 456 00:24:03,196 --> 00:24:05,596 Speaker 2: whatever you want, wet ass pussy and all that other shit. 457 00:24:06,196 --> 00:24:09,196 Speaker 2: But you know, I think can you get with it 458 00:24:09,236 --> 00:24:11,916 Speaker 2: was a bit that was a bit much for a 459 00:24:11,996 --> 00:24:14,196 Speaker 2: fifteen year old to say, can you get rided to 460 00:24:14,276 --> 00:24:17,676 Speaker 2: a girl? That means it's a sexual thing. But you know, 461 00:24:17,756 --> 00:24:19,636 Speaker 2: I think he was just ahead. He was just ahead 462 00:24:19,636 --> 00:24:22,676 Speaker 2: of the curve. I think that he got there before 463 00:24:22,716 --> 00:24:24,756 Speaker 2: everybody else did and was willing to push me in it. 464 00:24:24,876 --> 00:24:27,436 Speaker 2: So long as I was willing to allow myself to 465 00:24:27,436 --> 00:24:30,996 Speaker 2: be produced as an artist, that I would get something valuable. 466 00:24:31,396 --> 00:24:33,556 Speaker 2: Now going back and listening to those songs, they're way 467 00:24:33,636 --> 00:24:37,636 Speaker 2: way better then I could even understand at the time. 468 00:24:37,956 --> 00:24:42,076 Speaker 2: I missed that that Davante's swing production. There's no songs 469 00:24:42,116 --> 00:24:43,956 Speaker 2: on the radio that sound like any of that stuff. 470 00:24:44,276 --> 00:24:46,756 Speaker 2: What he was creating and what they were working on, 471 00:24:47,276 --> 00:24:50,276 Speaker 2: you know, Timberlin was doing those beats. Man, like, there's 472 00:24:50,316 --> 00:24:52,436 Speaker 2: no music that sounds like that type of R and 473 00:24:52,476 --> 00:24:54,356 Speaker 2: B even to this day, and as great as R 474 00:24:54,396 --> 00:24:57,556 Speaker 2: and B is, nothing is great like that. That man 475 00:24:57,636 --> 00:24:59,156 Speaker 2: was creating something that was amazing. 476 00:24:59,916 --> 00:25:01,796 Speaker 1: What was it like being in the studio with Davante's 477 00:25:01,796 --> 00:25:03,316 Speaker 1: swing man, if. 478 00:25:03,196 --> 00:25:05,916 Speaker 2: I could even remember, because I only saw so much, 479 00:25:05,916 --> 00:25:09,036 Speaker 2: and obviously my focus was on performing and singing. Yeah, 480 00:25:09,116 --> 00:25:10,996 Speaker 2: I wasn't really paying attention to the type of things 481 00:25:10,996 --> 00:25:14,076 Speaker 2: that were going on. But he was a star and 482 00:25:14,236 --> 00:25:19,076 Speaker 2: something about living and breathing and being the star at 483 00:25:19,516 --> 00:25:23,596 Speaker 2: all moments, that's what I saw. I watched him work, 484 00:25:23,676 --> 00:25:25,396 Speaker 2: and when I watched him go over to the piano, 485 00:25:25,596 --> 00:25:27,996 Speaker 2: I watched him turn the knobs. So he directed me 486 00:25:28,076 --> 00:25:30,356 Speaker 2: how to sing when he walked over to his car, 487 00:25:30,436 --> 00:25:33,636 Speaker 2: when he directed how he wanted his crew to produce, 488 00:25:33,796 --> 00:25:35,476 Speaker 2: or he to work on songs, because it wasn't just 489 00:25:35,516 --> 00:25:37,316 Speaker 2: can you with it? He worked on a few songs 490 00:25:37,316 --> 00:25:40,876 Speaker 2: on the album. I was just so impressed with the 491 00:25:40,956 --> 00:25:45,036 Speaker 2: star that he was. How he you know, how just 492 00:25:45,076 --> 00:25:48,316 Speaker 2: how he carried himself. I just he was a rock star. Man. 493 00:25:48,636 --> 00:25:51,636 Speaker 2: It was it was like that dude is just super 494 00:25:51,716 --> 00:25:55,356 Speaker 2: duper freaking cool. And then you got jo to Sy 495 00:25:55,436 --> 00:25:58,876 Speaker 2: in the background, literally Casey is singing backgrounds on Can't 496 00:25:58,876 --> 00:26:01,556 Speaker 2: You Get with It? I'm like, Yo, who am I? 497 00:26:01,636 --> 00:26:04,156 Speaker 2: What have I manifested to be able to have Casey 498 00:26:04,196 --> 00:26:07,556 Speaker 2: and Jojo here listening to me perform in the booth? 499 00:26:07,636 --> 00:26:10,036 Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying? And also to and backgrounds 500 00:26:10,476 --> 00:26:13,276 Speaker 2: on my song the cood Side of This World? 501 00:26:13,356 --> 00:26:17,396 Speaker 1: Man, At what point did you working with JD realize 502 00:26:17,516 --> 00:26:19,956 Speaker 1: Confessions was going to be confessions? In other words, that 503 00:26:19,956 --> 00:26:22,956 Speaker 1: it was going to be such a like a personal record. 504 00:26:23,836 --> 00:26:26,516 Speaker 2: When me and JD lock in, we lock in, you know, 505 00:26:26,596 --> 00:26:30,076 Speaker 2: we become one in that moment, right, Rather we're talking 506 00:26:30,116 --> 00:26:33,556 Speaker 2: about things that we as men sitting and talk about. 507 00:26:34,076 --> 00:26:36,116 Speaker 2: Rather we were talking about things that he was going 508 00:26:36,156 --> 00:26:38,836 Speaker 2: through or things that I was going through. I think 509 00:26:39,276 --> 00:26:43,196 Speaker 2: that was an AHA moment between he and I because 510 00:26:43,196 --> 00:26:46,636 Speaker 2: we the album title was called Real Talk when we 511 00:26:46,676 --> 00:26:48,476 Speaker 2: first started, and it was all about that was like 512 00:26:48,516 --> 00:26:51,596 Speaker 2: a catch tone, you know, catch phrases. Time let us 513 00:26:51,636 --> 00:26:54,236 Speaker 2: like real talk. So I was like, let's name it that. 514 00:26:54,356 --> 00:26:56,436 Speaker 2: We named it that, and that was a motivation. Like 515 00:26:56,476 --> 00:26:58,476 Speaker 2: all the conversations on this album are going to be 516 00:26:58,556 --> 00:27:03,076 Speaker 2: real like complicated things. Rather it was dealing with the 517 00:27:03,116 --> 00:27:06,516 Speaker 2: emotion of complicated in the complications of emotion. Or rather 518 00:27:06,516 --> 00:27:09,396 Speaker 2: it was dealing with the complications of love and what 519 00:27:09,476 --> 00:27:12,836 Speaker 2: happens when you you know, you're in a toxic situation, 520 00:27:12,996 --> 00:27:14,996 Speaker 2: or you have a girl on the side, or you're 521 00:27:14,996 --> 00:27:16,516 Speaker 2: in a relationship and you're trying to figure out how 522 00:27:16,556 --> 00:27:19,756 Speaker 2: to balance as a man. You know, when he and 523 00:27:19,796 --> 00:27:24,756 Speaker 2: I lock in, it becomes something special. So Confessions as 524 00:27:24,796 --> 00:27:29,356 Speaker 2: a title or as a song, it really just happened organically. 525 00:27:29,476 --> 00:27:32,196 Speaker 2: You know, we were just living and talking and living 526 00:27:32,236 --> 00:27:34,596 Speaker 2: with each other and trying to find the way to 527 00:27:34,636 --> 00:27:36,476 Speaker 2: write the songs of what we were living through. 528 00:27:36,556 --> 00:27:39,396 Speaker 1: You know, talking about dangerous, that record really felt dangerous 529 00:27:39,396 --> 00:27:41,396 Speaker 1: in a different way man, because it felt like harkening 530 00:27:41,556 --> 00:27:44,396 Speaker 1: back to like Marvin putting it all out there, like 531 00:27:44,396 --> 00:27:46,156 Speaker 1: in the like when he was going through his love 532 00:27:46,196 --> 00:27:48,956 Speaker 1: troubles in the late seventies, and just I don't know 533 00:27:48,996 --> 00:27:52,116 Speaker 1: that there was records R and B Records two thousand 534 00:27:52,116 --> 00:27:54,556 Speaker 1: and three, two thousand and four that felt as personal 535 00:27:54,636 --> 00:27:56,796 Speaker 1: as that Man, that felt powerful even as a kid, 536 00:27:56,876 --> 00:27:58,596 Speaker 1: I mean I was a freshman in high school and 537 00:27:58,596 --> 00:28:00,596 Speaker 1: that came out and I was like it just felt 538 00:28:00,636 --> 00:28:01,796 Speaker 1: was like, yo, this is different. 539 00:28:02,116 --> 00:28:04,716 Speaker 2: Well, by the way, as a young boy, right, you 540 00:28:04,756 --> 00:28:07,556 Speaker 2: don't necessarily have a lot of songs that you know, 541 00:28:07,636 --> 00:28:11,716 Speaker 2: speak to the emotions that we feel and that they are. 542 00:28:12,436 --> 00:28:16,356 Speaker 2: You know, maybe it's disconnected from you know, the reality 543 00:28:16,396 --> 00:28:18,996 Speaker 2: of the facade that we as men have to put on. 544 00:28:19,156 --> 00:28:20,956 Speaker 2: You know, I don't want to be emotional. I don't 545 00:28:20,956 --> 00:28:23,276 Speaker 2: really want to let you know that my heart is 546 00:28:23,356 --> 00:28:26,956 Speaker 2: broken or I'm really broken in this moment. We always 547 00:28:26,956 --> 00:28:29,916 Speaker 2: found very unique ways to be vulnerable. And that was 548 00:28:29,956 --> 00:28:31,836 Speaker 2: the point. It was like, no, let's talk about the 549 00:28:31,876 --> 00:28:37,236 Speaker 2: things that are complicated. Let's talk about the complications of 550 00:28:37,676 --> 00:28:42,196 Speaker 2: like passion and love man and make it all right 551 00:28:42,316 --> 00:28:44,956 Speaker 2: for men to listen to it and women to respect 552 00:28:44,996 --> 00:28:48,036 Speaker 2: it because it's articulated in a way that's clear for 553 00:28:48,076 --> 00:28:50,316 Speaker 2: them to know what we're dealing with. Yeah, you know, 554 00:28:50,716 --> 00:28:54,676 Speaker 2: and un necessarily you know, like what we're saying. And 555 00:28:55,036 --> 00:28:58,076 Speaker 2: I think the nineties kind of found this way of 556 00:28:58,156 --> 00:29:01,276 Speaker 2: doing that. There were artists that did it other than Jabi, 557 00:29:01,556 --> 00:29:05,956 Speaker 2: like Danielle Jones. You know, being in love with when 558 00:29:05,996 --> 00:29:08,316 Speaker 2: you love someone, you just don't treat them bad now 559 00:29:08,356 --> 00:29:10,356 Speaker 2: I feel so sad that I want to leave. She's 560 00:29:10,396 --> 00:29:12,836 Speaker 2: crying the hard to me. How could you let this be? 561 00:29:13,036 --> 00:29:14,716 Speaker 2: I just need time to think where I want to be. 562 00:29:14,916 --> 00:29:18,156 Speaker 2: That's a conflict, Like living in this place of conflict 563 00:29:18,636 --> 00:29:22,756 Speaker 2: is what I think we were really focused on with Confessions, 564 00:29:22,996 --> 00:29:25,556 Speaker 2: And every time me and JD worked together, you know, 565 00:29:25,636 --> 00:29:27,796 Speaker 2: and it became a really good practice of all of 566 00:29:27,836 --> 00:29:30,916 Speaker 2: the art that I've created. I make that like, what 567 00:29:31,076 --> 00:29:33,516 Speaker 2: is that conflict? You remind me of a girl that 568 00:29:33,556 --> 00:29:35,396 Speaker 2: I once knew. You don't have to call because I'm 569 00:29:35,396 --> 00:29:37,916 Speaker 2: out with my homies. I can't. You know, I'm gonna 570 00:29:37,956 --> 00:29:39,636 Speaker 2: be all right. We broke up and I'm cool. I'm 571 00:29:39,676 --> 00:29:42,276 Speaker 2: gonna keep it moving. I gotta get back on my feet. Confessions, 572 00:29:42,276 --> 00:29:45,036 Speaker 2: I got a baby on the side. You know, you know, 573 00:29:45,476 --> 00:29:48,036 Speaker 2: I don't mind you know, you know I'm looking at 574 00:29:48,036 --> 00:29:49,796 Speaker 2: a girl in the strip club like I don't mind 575 00:29:49,956 --> 00:29:51,396 Speaker 2: that you do what you do. I ain't got no 576 00:29:51,476 --> 00:29:53,956 Speaker 2: judgment for you. You dance on the pole, they don't 577 00:29:53,956 --> 00:29:56,396 Speaker 2: make you well, you know what I'm saying. All of 578 00:29:56,436 --> 00:29:59,396 Speaker 2: those those things of conflict like that, you got it 579 00:29:59,436 --> 00:30:03,916 Speaker 2: bad climax. I reached the climax of this relationship. I 580 00:30:03,956 --> 00:30:05,676 Speaker 2: know it's not gonna be more than sexual if I 581 00:30:05,716 --> 00:30:08,396 Speaker 2: get it, and I'm letting it be what it is. 582 00:30:09,196 --> 00:30:11,316 Speaker 2: You got it bad, let it burn. These are things 583 00:30:11,316 --> 00:30:15,316 Speaker 2: that were real. I can remember, you know, feeling the 584 00:30:15,356 --> 00:30:18,276 Speaker 2: emotions of like you know, I'm out of control. I 585 00:30:18,436 --> 00:30:23,916 Speaker 2: cannot deal with the emotional like internal burning that I'm 586 00:30:23,956 --> 00:30:28,436 Speaker 2: going through, Like I can't stop crying. I can't stop 587 00:30:28,516 --> 00:30:31,716 Speaker 2: what I'm feeling. That's like a burning sensation. We go 588 00:30:31,836 --> 00:30:35,556 Speaker 2: to a song called Burn. So living in or finding 589 00:30:35,596 --> 00:30:40,596 Speaker 2: ways to articulate conflict is what is in those songs 590 00:30:40,636 --> 00:30:42,516 Speaker 2: and what you know was in confessions. 591 00:30:42,796 --> 00:30:45,036 Speaker 1: So just to wrap things up working on a new record, 592 00:30:45,116 --> 00:30:47,396 Speaker 1: do you still find inspiration and conflict or what do 593 00:30:47,476 --> 00:30:49,956 Speaker 1: you find yourself find an inspiration these days in terms 594 00:30:49,956 --> 00:30:51,476 Speaker 1: of songwriting and emotion. 595 00:30:52,556 --> 00:30:55,236 Speaker 2: A little bit of both. It is what I feel 596 00:30:55,676 --> 00:30:59,636 Speaker 2: in my songmaking. Yeah, as a man, I'm going to 597 00:30:59,676 --> 00:31:03,396 Speaker 2: always be conflicted because that's passion and we're kind of 598 00:31:03,396 --> 00:31:06,236 Speaker 2: working against the natural nature of man. It's like I 599 00:31:06,276 --> 00:31:09,116 Speaker 2: want to be in love, I want to be happy, 600 00:31:09,556 --> 00:31:11,636 Speaker 2: but then I also too, am going to sabotage myself 601 00:31:11,636 --> 00:31:14,636 Speaker 2: because I'm passionate, you know, I want to be happy, 602 00:31:15,036 --> 00:31:17,996 Speaker 2: but I've been so unhappy for so long that i 603 00:31:18,116 --> 00:31:21,756 Speaker 2: just end up sabotaging myself because that's just what I'm 604 00:31:21,756 --> 00:31:26,356 Speaker 2: accustomed to, toxicity in life. And by the way, it's 605 00:31:26,356 --> 00:31:28,476 Speaker 2: not just men. Women are going through this shit too. 606 00:31:29,076 --> 00:31:30,076 Speaker 1: It's a human condition. 607 00:31:30,356 --> 00:31:33,476 Speaker 2: There's a human condition, and it's a human experience. What 608 00:31:33,516 --> 00:31:37,516 Speaker 2: we are all doing is having a human experience. Music 609 00:31:37,596 --> 00:31:41,396 Speaker 2: provides an opportunity to jot it down, to make it 610 00:31:41,476 --> 00:31:44,476 Speaker 2: last forever, to listen to it and continue to think 611 00:31:44,516 --> 00:31:47,116 Speaker 2: about where you were and maybe get something from it. 612 00:31:47,276 --> 00:31:50,116 Speaker 2: Rather you like, Okay, I acknowledge it. I got this problem, 613 00:31:50,196 --> 00:31:52,196 Speaker 2: I got this issue. Now I got to get past it. 614 00:31:52,396 --> 00:31:56,036 Speaker 2: Or either man, I'm going through that right now. All right, Well, 615 00:31:56,076 --> 00:31:57,476 Speaker 2: what's on the other side of it? You got to 616 00:31:57,516 --> 00:32:00,076 Speaker 2: first acknowledge it and deal with it. Sit with me. 617 00:32:00,436 --> 00:32:03,116 Speaker 2: Don't just go go get another love or go go 618 00:32:03,276 --> 00:32:05,876 Speaker 2: you know, buy another thing, or go and run away 619 00:32:05,876 --> 00:32:08,916 Speaker 2: from it and go put your attention in time somewhere else. No, 620 00:32:09,236 --> 00:32:11,996 Speaker 2: that shit with it, But that conflict, yes, is still 621 00:32:12,036 --> 00:32:15,596 Speaker 2: there to this day because I'm human, you know, even 622 00:32:15,636 --> 00:32:18,596 Speaker 2: if it's just a thought. You know, sometimes we need 623 00:32:18,636 --> 00:32:21,276 Speaker 2: a little space to be able to find that sometimes 624 00:32:21,316 --> 00:32:24,236 Speaker 2: we need to slow down and sit with discomfort. Maybe 625 00:32:24,316 --> 00:32:27,076 Speaker 2: sometime we need to find balance. And I'm happy that 626 00:32:27,116 --> 00:32:29,676 Speaker 2: I've been able to be that balance in music, to 627 00:32:29,716 --> 00:32:31,076 Speaker 2: be able to help people get through that. 628 00:32:31,676 --> 00:32:34,276 Speaker 1: Absolutely, Man, thank you always for finding that in your 629 00:32:34,316 --> 00:32:36,516 Speaker 1: music and not being afraid to be vulnerable, because you've 630 00:32:36,516 --> 00:32:38,796 Speaker 1: helped a lot of people process a lot, man, a 631 00:32:38,796 --> 00:32:40,716 Speaker 1: lot of different things, a lot of different emotions, good 632 00:32:40,716 --> 00:32:44,116 Speaker 1: and bad and in between. So appreciate you always, man. 633 00:32:44,196 --> 00:32:45,996 Speaker 1: And it's so I have my math wrong up top 634 00:32:46,036 --> 00:32:49,236 Speaker 1: two right, it's fifteen years, been in the game about thirty. 635 00:32:49,036 --> 00:32:52,276 Speaker 2: Now now, But you know I claim all of my years. Man, 636 00:32:52,436 --> 00:32:54,396 Speaker 2: I don't look forty four, you know what I'm saying. 637 00:32:54,396 --> 00:32:57,356 Speaker 2: But I'm definitely loving the wisdom that has come with 638 00:32:57,476 --> 00:33:01,076 Speaker 2: this time and the celebration in Las Vegas. Man that 639 00:33:01,756 --> 00:33:03,436 Speaker 2: I get out of it, the fact that people are 640 00:33:03,436 --> 00:33:05,996 Speaker 2: paying their hard earned money to come out there. I 641 00:33:05,996 --> 00:33:08,876 Speaker 2: ain't bringing you there to disappoint you. I'm going to 642 00:33:08,916 --> 00:33:12,116 Speaker 2: give you an experience and you're going to have a 643 00:33:12,156 --> 00:33:15,356 Speaker 2: celebratory moment. Rather, it was the beginning of my career, 644 00:33:15,636 --> 00:33:18,156 Speaker 2: or rather it's the current moment that just makes you 645 00:33:18,396 --> 00:33:23,196 Speaker 2: enjoy the process. Come come to Las Vegas, come enjoy you. 646 00:33:23,596 --> 00:33:25,516 Speaker 2: Be on the lookout for new music because it's coming. 647 00:33:26,036 --> 00:33:28,476 Speaker 2: And Man, I thank you, Thank you for this moment 648 00:33:28,516 --> 00:33:30,556 Speaker 2: to be able to share. Thank you for this moment 649 00:33:30,596 --> 00:33:33,036 Speaker 2: to be able to just talk about that thing as 650 00:33:33,076 --> 00:33:34,796 Speaker 2: a guy geting gift that I get to share with 651 00:33:34,876 --> 00:33:35,996 Speaker 2: that audience every day. 652 00:33:36,756 --> 00:33:38,636 Speaker 1: Yes, sir, can't wait to see you out in Vegas. 653 00:33:38,676 --> 00:33:39,836 Speaker 1: I'll be out there in June. 654 00:33:39,916 --> 00:33:41,596 Speaker 2: And thank you, man, Man, thank you. 655 00:33:44,476 --> 00:33:46,796 Speaker 1: Thanks again to Usher for jumping on zoom despite his 656 00:33:46,916 --> 00:33:49,316 Speaker 1: busy schedule. You can hear all of our favorite Usher 657 00:33:49,396 --> 00:33:53,436 Speaker 1: songs at Broken Record podcast dot com. You can subscribe 658 00:33:53,476 --> 00:33:56,516 Speaker 1: to a YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash Broken 659 00:33:56,556 --> 00:33:59,556 Speaker 1: Record Podcast, where can find all of our new episodes. 660 00:34:00,716 --> 00:34:04,236 Speaker 1: You can follow us on Twitter at Broken Records. Broken 661 00:34:04,276 --> 00:34:07,036 Speaker 1: Record is produced with help from Leah Rose, Jason Gambrel, 662 00:34:07,396 --> 00:34:11,116 Speaker 1: Ben Tolliday, and Eric sam There. Our editor is Sophie 663 00:34:11,116 --> 00:34:14,996 Speaker 1: Crane bro Conrect with this production of Pushkin Industries. If 664 00:34:14,996 --> 00:34:17,836 Speaker 1: you love this show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing 665 00:34:17,876 --> 00:34:21,716 Speaker 1: to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that 666 00:34:21,836 --> 00:34:25,436 Speaker 1: offers bonus content an uninterrupted ad free listening for four 667 00:34:25,516 --> 00:34:28,316 Speaker 1: ninety nine a month. Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple 668 00:34:28,356 --> 00:34:31,596 Speaker 1: podcast subscriptions, and if you like the show, please remember 669 00:34:31,636 --> 00:34:34,396 Speaker 1: to share, rate, and review us on your podcast app. 670 00:34:34,836 --> 00:34:37,716 Speaker 1: A theme music expect Kenny Beats. I'm Justin Oshman.