1 00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:05,439 Speaker 1: Through our Songwriter's Forward initiatives, Sony Music Publishing is delivering 2 00:00:05,600 --> 00:00:11,760 Speaker 1: songwriters support that matters. From our legacy unrecouped balanced program 3 00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:16,800 Speaker 1: and songwriter assistance offerings to our cash out service and 4 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:20,960 Speaker 1: score portal. We are constantly evolving to fit the needs 5 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:25,320 Speaker 1: of our songwriters today and tomorrow. To learn more about 6 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:40,880 Speaker 1: Songwriters Forward, visit sonymusicpub dot com. 7 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to another episode of Strictly Business, the 8 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:45,839 Speaker 2: podcast in which we speak with some of the brightest 9 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 2: minds working in the media business today. I'm Chris Wilman, 10 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:53,360 Speaker 2: chief music critic and senior writer with Variety. Today's guest 11 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 2: is Daniel Nigro, who's nominated for Producer of the Year 12 00:00:56,520 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 2: at the upcoming twenty twenty five Grammy Awards. That title, 13 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:03,360 Speaker 2: He's also been celebrated as Producer of the Year at 14 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:07,200 Speaker 2: Variety's annual Hitmaker's event. Dan's Producer of the Year nomination 15 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:10,240 Speaker 2: the Grammys is based largely on this past year's breakout 16 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 2: success by chapel Rod. He produced all of and co 17 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:16,560 Speaker 2: wrote most of her debut album, The Rise and Fall 18 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 2: of the Midwest Princess. On the basis of that top 19 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:22,039 Speaker 2: ten recording, Roan is a leading favorite to win the 20 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:25,160 Speaker 2: Best New Artist Grammy, and she and Nigro nominated together 21 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:28,640 Speaker 2: in categories including Album, Record and Song of the Year. 22 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:31,960 Speaker 2: The success falls on the heels of a similar collaboration 23 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:35,440 Speaker 2: with Olivia Rodrigo on her first two albums, making him 24 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:38,320 Speaker 2: the creative partner with the tupop artists who have arguably 25 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:41,280 Speaker 2: had the two most meteoric rises since the turn of 26 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:44,680 Speaker 2: the decade. This wasn't his career past starting out, though 27 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:47,560 Speaker 2: he spent pretty much the duration of two thousands as 28 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 2: a member of a rock band called As Tall as Lions. 29 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:52,800 Speaker 2: From there, the path he took to where he is 30 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:55,560 Speaker 2: involved being a jingle writer, which is evidence of his 31 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 2: facility for unforgettable pop books before he started hooking up 32 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:03,680 Speaker 2: with artists including Conin Gray, Kylie Minogue, Caroline Paulchek, and 33 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:06,680 Speaker 2: Sky Ferrera prior to working close to full time with 34 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 2: rod and Rodrigo. We'll talk with Nigro about that journey. 35 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 2: What about how he sees the role of the producer 36 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:15,240 Speaker 2: writer in today's pop music. You'll hear all about this 37 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 2: at our conversation we strictly Business comes back after the break. 38 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:31,040 Speaker 1: At Sony Music Publishing. We are redefining the future of 39 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:37,400 Speaker 1: songwriters support. Through our Songwriter Assistance Program, every SMP songwriter 40 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:41,680 Speaker 1: around the world gets access to free counseling services and 41 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:46,480 Speaker 1: wellness resources, available twenty four to seven in over seventy languages. 42 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 1: This isn't an extra service, it's a new standard. To 43 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 1: learn more about Songwriter Assistance and the rest of our 44 00:02:53,680 --> 00:03:04,359 Speaker 1: Songwriter's Forward initiatives, visit sonymusicpub dot com. 45 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 2: We're back with the Idael Nigro, the producer and writer 46 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:10,240 Speaker 2: who has been the close collaborator of Olivia Rodrigo and 47 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:13,640 Speaker 2: Chavel Road in their breakout successes. You were nominated for 48 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 2: Producer of the Year at the Grammys. He won Songwriter 49 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:20,640 Speaker 2: of the Year at the ASHCAP Awards, And it's interesting 50 00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 2: to me that at the Grammys for their fairly New 51 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:24,399 Speaker 2: Songwriter to your category, you have to be a non 52 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 2: producing and songwriter to be eligible. 53 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:27,680 Speaker 3: But it really feels. 54 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:29,799 Speaker 2: Like we're exiting the era in which those roles are 55 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:33,519 Speaker 2: usually seeing as separate. So I'm curious it's looking back 56 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:35,560 Speaker 2: when you were making the transition from being in a 57 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:38,280 Speaker 2: band to going behind the scenes, were you aiming at 58 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 2: either just being a producer or just a songwriter primarily, 59 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:43,520 Speaker 2: or was it clear even at the start of that 60 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:45,320 Speaker 2: process that you'd be doing both. 61 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:48,680 Speaker 4: So in the beginning, it's you know, it's interesting. I 62 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:53,800 Speaker 4: really never thought I would be a producer. H I mean, 63 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:56,640 Speaker 4: the whole world of songwriting and production to me was 64 00:03:56,680 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 4: so new. I moved out to la in twenty eleven, 65 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:03,560 Speaker 4: and at the time, I really just wanted to Like 66 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 4: I've said this to to some people before, but I 67 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:10,600 Speaker 4: just wanted to be able to make a living making music. 68 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 4: And at the time, the way that I saw path 69 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 4: forward for me was to be a jingle writer. I 70 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:22,280 Speaker 4: had a few connections into the jingle world and I 71 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 4: started to just make some jingles, like and I got 72 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:28,799 Speaker 4: really really lucky the first year that I was trying, 73 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 4: and I was working at, you know, a job at 74 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:34,159 Speaker 4: a restaurant, and within the first like six months of 75 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 4: being out here, I landed. I landed a couple of spots, 76 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:39,720 Speaker 4: and that was able to kind of and from there 77 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:42,719 Speaker 4: I was able to kind of afford the time to 78 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 4: kind of focus a little bit more on being a 79 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:48,920 Speaker 4: songwriter because I, you know, came out here and saw 80 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:52,120 Speaker 4: what you know, Ario Rekschide was doing and trying to start, 81 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:55,440 Speaker 4: you know, with his company Heavy Duty, and I was 82 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:57,480 Speaker 4: really excited about the opportunity to just like kind of 83 00:04:57,520 --> 00:05:00,440 Speaker 4: like write some songs and make and make music. Really 84 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:04,120 Speaker 4: so it started kind of in the jingle world and 85 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:08,240 Speaker 4: then it kind of like switched slightly over to focusing 86 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:12,240 Speaker 4: some time into songwriting. And then what happened was is 87 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:16,280 Speaker 4: that in songwriting, you know, like I started to realize 88 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 4: after a few years of doing it, that like a 89 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 4: lot of the the producer was kind of like the 90 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 4: like the gateway into like the world of getting the 91 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 4: song to an artist or to talking to the record labels, 92 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:33,120 Speaker 4: and and like you didn't have a lot of as 93 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:34,920 Speaker 4: a songwriter. You don't have a lot of control as 94 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:38,080 Speaker 4: to what happens with your song, you know. And I 95 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:42,840 Speaker 4: found myself getting frustrated because I would oftentimes go into 96 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:47,160 Speaker 4: writing sessions with other producers, and you know, like you 97 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:50,440 Speaker 4: and I hear this story from tons of songwriters. It's 98 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:52,680 Speaker 4: like you go into a studio, you make a song, 99 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 4: and then it's kind of sitting on the producer's hard drives, 100 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:58,040 Speaker 4: you know, and it's up to the producer to one 101 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:01,360 Speaker 4: finish the production and to get it back to you 102 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:04,400 Speaker 4: or get it to the publishers when you're when you're 103 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 4: dealing more so in the in the you know, quote 104 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 4: unquote pitch world, of which is what I was kind 105 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:12,560 Speaker 4: of like I started in and it became really difficult 106 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 4: because I had literally no control over what happened to 107 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 4: my songs, and I started to get really frustrated with 108 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:21,880 Speaker 4: that process. And I mean, I can't say that I 109 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 4: just like made a quick and easy transition into production. 110 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:27,800 Speaker 4: But all the while, from twenty eleven until like I 111 00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:31,600 Speaker 4: really started to make the switch in twenty sixteen twenty seventeen, 112 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 4: I was honing my production chops and never felt like 113 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 4: fully confident that I could do a production fully by myself. 114 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:41,560 Speaker 4: But I was getting better and better, and time, you know, 115 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:44,159 Speaker 4: time was on my side, and in that sense because 116 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 4: I was, you know, able to make money as a 117 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:48,920 Speaker 4: as a jingle writer, so I was able to spend 118 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:52,719 Speaker 4: time focusing on my production. And so yeah, it was 119 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:57,279 Speaker 4: kind of like this like slow gradual shift, you know, 120 00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:01,000 Speaker 4: from being a songwriter to then like learning enough production 121 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:03,280 Speaker 4: to be able to be able to produce a song 122 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 4: that I had written myself or a song that I 123 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:07,159 Speaker 4: had written with other people, and I didn't have to 124 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 4: rely on other producers to kind of, you know, to 125 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 4: finish this up. 126 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:13,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, And with the economics of the business being what 127 00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:16,360 Speaker 2: they are now and where revenue is coming from, I 128 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 2: feel like it's hard to be successful as just a songwriter, 129 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 2: and so there's also an economic incentive to do both. 130 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 3: And maybe you could speak to how difficult. 131 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:26,680 Speaker 2: That is just to make a living as a writer, 132 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 2: but also I feel like the economics of it is 133 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 2: the main driver. I feel like in modern pop we 134 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:34,040 Speaker 2: have a lot of people like yourself who really are 135 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:38,640 Speaker 2: outstanding at both, and that the process now when these 136 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 2: ongoing collaborations trappening involves a lot of hanging out and 137 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 2: a lot of trial and error in which writing producing 138 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:49,600 Speaker 2: really are happening simultaneously in some way, and demos end 139 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:51,680 Speaker 2: up being a part of the finished product a lot 140 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:54,560 Speaker 2: of the time and all that. So I feel like 141 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:58,360 Speaker 2: there's a certainly it's hard for people to make a 142 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 2: living just writing, but also I feel like, why wouldn't 143 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:03,680 Speaker 2: writers want to be part of the production process if 144 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:06,840 Speaker 2: if they can, especially when you're really hanging with an 145 00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 2: artist the way you have been with some of your biggest. 146 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 4: Stars sure, So, okay, that was I feel like that 147 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:17,160 Speaker 4: was a great question. It was multi like multi levers. 148 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 4: So what was the what's the first question you want? 149 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:22,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, just sort of like where where the revenue comes 150 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:23,240 Speaker 2: from nowadays? 151 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:27,119 Speaker 4: So it's interesting people. Yeah, people talk about this a lot, 152 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:29,800 Speaker 4: you know, And well, I should say, first, it is 153 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:34,440 Speaker 4: so hard to make money as a songwriter nowadays unless 154 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:36,959 Speaker 4: you have a hit song. You know, it's like it 155 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:40,800 Speaker 4: really becomes difficult because there's not a lot of album sales. 156 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:44,560 Speaker 4: And then also the streaming. The streaming favors the master side, 157 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 4: so obviously producers are making money on the master side 158 00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:51,800 Speaker 4: more so than the songwriters are. So yeah, so it 159 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 4: definitely like it definitely favors you know, the artists and 160 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:58,560 Speaker 4: the and the producer in that sense. And yeah, it 161 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:00,920 Speaker 4: took me a long time to kind of all so realized, 162 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 4: not even really realize that's the wrong word. 163 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:03,880 Speaker 5: You know. 164 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:06,559 Speaker 4: I did a lot of songwriting for those first few 165 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:09,240 Speaker 4: years where I was just a songwriter, and I guess 166 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:12,880 Speaker 4: I became surprised as to how little you know, writing 167 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:15,200 Speaker 4: a song with it with a large like a you know, 168 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:17,839 Speaker 4: an A or a B level artist. You know, if 169 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:20,440 Speaker 4: you didn't have the single. I was like, I definitely 170 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:22,560 Speaker 4: was shocked, as like to wow, like, you really don't 171 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:25,880 Speaker 4: make any money as a songwriter, you know, Like and 172 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:28,320 Speaker 4: I think that, you know, you have to kind of 173 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 4: like see it to believe it. You know, you do it, 174 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:32,560 Speaker 4: and a couple of years go by, and you're like, wow, 175 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:35,600 Speaker 4: like that doesn't really equate to being able to pay 176 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 4: your rent, you know. I feel like the interesting thing though, 177 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:41,959 Speaker 4: is that there are a lot of revenue streams for songwriters, 178 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:44,000 Speaker 4: and I do see a lot of songwriters taking advantage 179 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:46,199 Speaker 4: of it. Now is that in like the jingle and 180 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:49,360 Speaker 4: and that's honestly where why I started doing the jingles 181 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:51,319 Speaker 4: is because there is money. There's a lot of sync fees, 182 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:53,440 Speaker 4: you know, to even if even if you're just a 183 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:56,520 Speaker 4: songwriter and you're not the producer, the sync fees for 184 00:09:56,800 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 4: songs being placed in TV shows and commercials is like, 185 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:03,320 Speaker 4: can be pretty lucrative and I and I do see 186 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:05,760 Speaker 4: some songwriters taking advantage of that, and I wish that 187 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:08,720 Speaker 4: more of them do because the other thing that you 188 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:11,440 Speaker 4: realize when you start to get into the songwriting world 189 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:15,839 Speaker 4: with artists is that you know, even I've started to 190 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:19,160 Speaker 4: learn that not necessarily having this the single obviously makes 191 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 4: the most money, but there is money to be made 192 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:24,520 Speaker 4: when your songs are placed in television and commercials. And 193 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 4: I have tons, like lots of songs with artists that, 194 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 4: while the song wasn't necessarily a hit, do generate income 195 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:34,320 Speaker 4: through the sync, you know, the sink world of like 196 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:37,959 Speaker 4: being placed and stuff. And I find it interesting nowadays 197 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:41,560 Speaker 4: that actually, like because there's so much content on online, 198 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:45,360 Speaker 4: you know, between you know, your netflixes and your Amazon Prime, 199 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:49,840 Speaker 4: your Hulu, like there's all these different like besides just 200 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:52,360 Speaker 4: you know, your network television. You have obviously your shows 201 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:58,040 Speaker 4: on ABC, NBC. There's so many different facets of fastest 202 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:03,120 Speaker 4: is the wrong word. There's so many different television shows 203 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:06,080 Speaker 4: and shows being made that there's lots of weight, there's 204 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:09,440 Speaker 4: a lot there's there's so much need for content nowadays, 205 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:12,160 Speaker 4: you know, And I think that that actually benefits the 206 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:14,960 Speaker 4: songwriters as well as the producers, because lots of songs, 207 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 4: even when they're not singles, do get used, do get placements, 208 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:22,440 Speaker 4: and so I do find that to be like one 209 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:26,280 Speaker 4: of the positives of that ever changing music scene. 210 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 3: Yeah. 211 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:30,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, to talk about the role of producer writers 212 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:32,280 Speaker 2: now I mean, I feel like audiences have become a 213 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:35,360 Speaker 2: lot more sophisticated about it, and they know who the 214 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:37,400 Speaker 2: people behind the scenes are, at least when it comes 215 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:39,800 Speaker 2: to your level. Like I would bet that ninety percent 216 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:42,280 Speaker 2: of Olivia fans or ninety percent of Chapel fans know 217 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:45,160 Speaker 2: who you are and they often have opinions. 218 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 4: I feel like that's a very nice percent. I feel 219 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:51,280 Speaker 4: like it's not that much, but yes, like definitely, like 220 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:54,679 Speaker 4: a percentage of them ninety percent scenes pretty pretty crazy, but. 221 00:11:54,720 --> 00:12:01,000 Speaker 2: Yes, But but you see discussions about this among fandoms 222 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:04,040 Speaker 2: and like even if you look at like the fan 223 00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 2: base for a Lady Gaga, they'll have arguments about, you know, 224 00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:08,680 Speaker 2: which producers she needs to work with more or work 225 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:09,200 Speaker 2: with less. 226 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:12,680 Speaker 4: Yes, yes, I see that all the time. 227 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:15,960 Speaker 2: And maybe maybe my memory is bad about growing up, 228 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:17,920 Speaker 2: but I don't remember, you know, when I was growing 229 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:21,240 Speaker 2: up arguing about producers being a big facet of the 230 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:23,240 Speaker 2: pop music or top forty experience. 231 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:25,319 Speaker 3: You know, I think that that. 232 00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 4: Has to I mean, like I think you can break 233 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:32,440 Speaker 4: it down and say that that is a what's the 234 00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:35,560 Speaker 4: word I'm looking for, Like, that's a factor that's that's 235 00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:39,280 Speaker 4: driven by the fact that there's more knowledge on the 236 00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:41,199 Speaker 4: internet just in general. I think that when you think 237 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:45,440 Speaker 4: about like even even ten years ago versus today, when 238 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:47,920 Speaker 4: it comes to being a songwriter producer, there's just so 239 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:50,040 Speaker 4: much more knowledge even in the world as to like 240 00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:53,440 Speaker 4: what the value is of a publishing deal, and what 241 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:55,559 Speaker 4: should be asked for and what shouldn't be asked for 242 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:59,040 Speaker 4: and those things. I think that people just have in general, 243 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:03,120 Speaker 4: much more more information at their disposal, you know. And 244 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:06,520 Speaker 4: I think that obviously, like with with like TikTok and Instagram, 245 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:09,320 Speaker 4: that there's like everyone has a face now, so you could, like, 246 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:12,280 Speaker 4: so it's easy for a producer to have a face. 247 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:13,960 Speaker 4: But also the same way that like it's easy for 248 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:17,680 Speaker 4: somebody who's making like food, you know, and doing like 249 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:21,280 Speaker 4: food content or or other facts book you know, like 250 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:23,280 Speaker 4: people like doing book reviews or you know. 251 00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:23,720 Speaker 3: Book talk. 252 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:26,560 Speaker 4: Like I think just in general, there's there's just a 253 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:30,319 Speaker 4: larger audience for people to have a platform in general, 254 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:33,000 Speaker 4: you know. So I think that's a I guess that's 255 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:33,800 Speaker 4: part of it, you know. 256 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:36,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I feel like I'm trying to compare 257 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:39,800 Speaker 2: you know, the relationship you have with your artists that 258 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:42,080 Speaker 2: you work with two different eras, and I feel like 259 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:45,320 Speaker 2: in some ways we're seeing something a little bit like 260 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:47,800 Speaker 2: the golden era of the real Building or something where 261 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:51,040 Speaker 2: it was Goffin and King or just Barry el Grantwich, 262 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:55,079 Speaker 2: except that the roles on either side have grown where 263 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:57,480 Speaker 2: one of those people in the team is the artist 264 00:13:57,679 --> 00:14:00,960 Speaker 2: and the other person on the team is also Phil Spector, 265 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:05,640 Speaker 2: you know, And so we don't have those pure songwriters, 266 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 2: but we but we do have these great songwriting relationships. 267 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:11,720 Speaker 2: But it's just those people happen to be the producer 268 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:14,600 Speaker 2: and the artists as well as the writers. And we 269 00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:16,559 Speaker 2: saw a little bit of that through history, but it's 270 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:19,720 Speaker 2: so such a growing thing now, and you're such a 271 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 2: great example of that. And do you compare it to, 272 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 2: you know, anything that happened in history before I tried. 273 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:28,960 Speaker 4: To think about that. I mean, I always look at 274 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 4: it like, you know, I've used this analogy before. It's like, 275 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:33,920 Speaker 4: it's like being in a band, you know, And I 276 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 4: come from being in a band. I come from the 277 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:39,120 Speaker 4: like a world where like it's like a team of 278 00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:42,040 Speaker 4: people making music and I and so I try to 279 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:44,920 Speaker 4: align myself. I feel very lucky. I feel so lucky 280 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:49,760 Speaker 4: that I met Olivia and I met Chapel because to me, 281 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:53,400 Speaker 4: they are these incredible artists that needed like a band member, 282 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:55,600 Speaker 4: you know, like somebody else to make music with. And 283 00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:58,480 Speaker 4: so I look at myself as like the team, like 284 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:01,440 Speaker 4: the teammate in a lot of ways, because they have 285 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:04,040 Speaker 4: such a like a strong vision for what they want. 286 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 4: But they're not also like they're not like, you know, 287 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 4: players are you know, obviously both Olivia and Chapple play 288 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:14,360 Speaker 4: piano and play guitar and stuff, but like when you're 289 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 4: in a band, there's like you're kind of able to 290 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:18,200 Speaker 4: feed off of each other and bounce ideas off each 291 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:20,600 Speaker 4: other in real time and like lay them down and 292 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:22,720 Speaker 4: and and like it's really hard to do that as 293 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:25,040 Speaker 4: a solo artist when you don't have like a knack 294 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:27,240 Speaker 4: for using pro tools or like. And so I kind 295 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:28,960 Speaker 4: of see myself just as like the other band, like 296 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:31,240 Speaker 4: a like a band member who like gets to be 297 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:33,440 Speaker 4: in the room and make music and be a part 298 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 4: of the team. 299 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 5: You know. 300 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, So I think I also, like to 301 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 4: I kind of not like to view it, but I 302 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:46,280 Speaker 4: think that I was talking to somebody recently, I forget 303 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:48,440 Speaker 4: who I was having this conversation with about just like 304 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 4: about bands in general, that there's you know, you know, 305 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:55,440 Speaker 4: there's just less bands and there's or like there's less 306 00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:58,320 Speaker 4: bands and like at the top of like the charts 307 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:01,680 Speaker 4: and stuff. And I think that's because people are able 308 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:05,000 Speaker 4: to make music individually. Now, Like back at you know, 309 00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:08,360 Speaker 4: when I was nineteen years old, I didn't. I mean 310 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:11,280 Speaker 4: when I look back now, like, you know, I'm forty two, 311 00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:13,560 Speaker 4: so you're looking back twenty three years later, and when 312 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:15,920 Speaker 4: I look back in retrospect, they go, yeah, I guess 313 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 4: I could have probably taken the time and I probably 314 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:21,360 Speaker 4: should have taken the time back then to like learn 315 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:25,040 Speaker 4: how to use a four track, you know well and 316 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:27,520 Speaker 4: be able to record demos by myself, because that would 317 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:30,600 Speaker 4: have been really beneficial to my career, you know. But 318 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:33,960 Speaker 4: nowadays kids have pro tools and logic and you know, 319 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 4: uh ableton, and they have like they have the they 320 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:41,120 Speaker 4: have Splice or whatever you want, like different websites where 321 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:43,760 Speaker 4: they can go and download loops and basically like just 322 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:47,240 Speaker 4: make songs like by themselves. It's quite easy. Not I 323 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:48,840 Speaker 4: don't want to say it's easy to make a song, 324 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:51,720 Speaker 4: but it's easier to make a song than it was 325 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:58,479 Speaker 4: twenty years ago. But because people are able to work individually, 326 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:02,200 Speaker 4: it like it makes it harder for people to want 327 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:04,119 Speaker 4: to get together in a group of four or five 328 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:07,120 Speaker 4: people and like really like hash out making a. 329 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:07,919 Speaker 3: Song, you know. 330 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:11,399 Speaker 4: And also it's quite expensive. I mean back in the 331 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:13,040 Speaker 4: day when I was a kid, you know, like you're 332 00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:16,240 Speaker 4: talking about, you know, like having to rent a studio 333 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 4: and when you're like seventeen, you know, you know, like 334 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 4: you live with your parents. Like a lot of us 335 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:23,000 Speaker 4: didn't have jobs at sixteen or seventeen, Like trying to 336 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:24,560 Speaker 4: come up with one hundred dollars to pay for the 337 00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:27,720 Speaker 4: studio time wasn't really easy to do, you know, or 338 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:30,640 Speaker 4: even go to a recording studio, which was more expensive 339 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:32,359 Speaker 4: to make a you know, make a real demo. Like 340 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:34,680 Speaker 4: I remember when we were kids, like having to actually 341 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:37,280 Speaker 4: save up and I had summer jobs and like really 342 00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:39,680 Speaker 4: put the money together to make our demos as a band. 343 00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:42,560 Speaker 4: So I just think that like nowadays, like there's there's 344 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:45,760 Speaker 4: room for producers to play the role of the band. 345 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:48,439 Speaker 2: That yeah, that's interesting because it is kind of like 346 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:51,840 Speaker 2: the best of the real building ethos, but also the 347 00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:55,240 Speaker 2: best of being in a rock band ethos, and those 348 00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:57,440 Speaker 2: distinctions become blurrier over time. 349 00:17:58,000 --> 00:17:59,960 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean yeah, I like to think about I 350 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:01,800 Speaker 4: guess coming from the rock band because I like to 351 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:03,639 Speaker 4: think of that, I'm just a band member. 352 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:07,400 Speaker 2: We're going to take a break, but move. You're right 353 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:09,639 Speaker 2: back with more of our conversation with music writer and 354 00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:14,160 Speaker 2: producer Dan Nigro in this edition of Variety's Strictly Business Podcast. 355 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:23,919 Speaker 1: Songwriters and composers want faster payments and financial flexibility for 356 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:29,520 Speaker 1: their careers. With cash Out and Score, Sony Music Publishing 357 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:33,720 Speaker 1: is making it easier than ever for SMP songwriters to 358 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:37,639 Speaker 1: access available funds in real time and stay informed of 359 00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:42,320 Speaker 1: their global earnings with customized data and insights. To learn 360 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:45,600 Speaker 1: more about cash Out Score and the rest of our 361 00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:56,320 Speaker 1: songwriters Forward initiatives, visit sonymusicpub dot com. 362 00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:59,960 Speaker 2: Well, speaking of that, I mean, I love the distinction 363 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:02,680 Speaker 2: between pop and rock have gotten so blurry. 364 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:04,120 Speaker 3: As somebody who is. 365 00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:06,480 Speaker 2: An old school rock and roll guy and someone who 366 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:09,400 Speaker 2: loves pop music, I'm all in favor of that, And 367 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 2: even looking at the artist you work with, I mean, 368 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:15,160 Speaker 2: I don't I don't want to ask you to compare 369 00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:17,000 Speaker 2: them necessarily, but I don't know if you have a 370 00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:19,280 Speaker 2: take on this. But I just love thinking about the 371 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:22,400 Speaker 2: fact that, like Olivia is just really a rocker, and 372 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 2: you know, her show is a real rock show. I 373 00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:26,680 Speaker 2: made a lot of people mad when I reviewed the 374 00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:28,480 Speaker 2: opening night and I said it was like the best 375 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:31,520 Speaker 2: rock tour of the year and all these rock how 376 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:32,200 Speaker 2: dare you? 377 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:32,439 Speaker 5: You know? 378 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:35,520 Speaker 2: But then you talk to her and kind of in 379 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:37,960 Speaker 2: her off stage persona, she comes off across war like 380 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:40,560 Speaker 2: you'd expect sort of a good natured pop star to be. 381 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:44,479 Speaker 2: You know, she's very sweet and you know, compliments you 382 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:47,439 Speaker 2: for complimenting her, and she's not all spitting vinegar. I 383 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 2: guess I'm saying, like, she's not Courtney Love. And on 384 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:54,159 Speaker 2: the other hand, Chapel doesn't do as much of what 385 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:57,879 Speaker 2: we'd consider rock and roll stylistically per se. She's very 386 00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:00,000 Speaker 2: much exploring the varieties of pop, but she has a 387 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:02,520 Speaker 2: a real rock and roll attitude to me. And so 388 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:05,280 Speaker 2: I love that these barriers of musical style and personal 389 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:08,320 Speaker 2: style get mixed up now, and especially see it in 390 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:11,040 Speaker 2: these two artists you're working with, and and so I 391 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:14,320 Speaker 2: don't know if you have any observations about them and 392 00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:17,159 Speaker 2: how they are are kind of rock and rollers and 393 00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:18,560 Speaker 2: kind of pop people. 394 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:20,480 Speaker 4: And I mean, I feel like I feel like that 395 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:22,399 Speaker 4: it kind of goes back to the last question, like 396 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:25,840 Speaker 4: it's yeah, exactly, they're they're both rock and rollers in 397 00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:28,399 Speaker 4: my opinion, and that's kind of why I in a 398 00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:31,600 Speaker 4: lot of ways, we're gravitated towards them as you know, 399 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:33,800 Speaker 4: as a quote unquote band, as a you know, a 400 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:36,800 Speaker 4: team players Like I, I just love their rock and 401 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 4: roll spirit. That both of them just have such like 402 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:41,960 Speaker 4: attitude and grit in making music and the way that 403 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:45,560 Speaker 4: they approach making music, and that's what I like. I 404 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:48,919 Speaker 4: love that about them and and and always want to 405 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:51,679 Speaker 4: help them like bring that part out in the music. 406 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:55,080 Speaker 3: So yeah, I mean I agree. 407 00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:56,840 Speaker 4: So I guess in short, like I agree with you. 408 00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:58,920 Speaker 4: I think they're both you know, they're both rockers and 409 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:01,520 Speaker 4: in a the best way possible, you know. 410 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:07,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, And Chapel has been teaching you about country. 411 00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:10,800 Speaker 4: Yes, Yes, I feel like I have a lot to learn. 412 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:13,840 Speaker 4: I feel like I feel like I have a lot 413 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:17,600 Speaker 4: a lot to learn, but I am learning and enjoying 414 00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:18,639 Speaker 4: learning it, you know. 415 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:24,400 Speaker 2: And what's it like having the Giver out there as 416 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:26,960 Speaker 2: kind of a viral hit just from a TV parents 417 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 2: before you've finished recording it. 418 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:31,160 Speaker 3: As far as I know, it's pretty cool. 419 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:33,119 Speaker 4: I mean, it's great to see that. I mean, listen, 420 00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:36,359 Speaker 4: you know, I love going on the internet and seeing 421 00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:39,159 Speaker 4: people like. One of the craziest things about you know, 422 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:41,879 Speaker 4: I guess this startle goes to the giver, and I 423 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:45,840 Speaker 4: guess also to the Subway is that it is really 424 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:50,760 Speaker 4: interesting like having songs out on the internet that are 425 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:54,800 Speaker 4: not released commercially yet and seeing people like interpret them, 426 00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:58,080 Speaker 4: which is like kind of wild, like like having people 427 00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:01,000 Speaker 4: cover your songs and their songs that aren't even out, 428 00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:03,639 Speaker 4: you know. I find that that part of it to 429 00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:06,679 Speaker 4: be pretty fascinating. I've seen some pretty incredible covers of 430 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:09,240 Speaker 4: Subway already where I'm like, wow, that is such a 431 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:12,520 Speaker 4: beautiful interpretation of the song. And and like the longer 432 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:14,400 Speaker 4: that your song is out, you know, the more room 433 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:17,280 Speaker 4: there's for interpretation of it. So it's kind of wild 434 00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:20,520 Speaker 4: to watch that process and like see songs like take 435 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:23,160 Speaker 4: on their own life and you know, and and yeah 436 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:25,320 Speaker 4: they're not even out yet, you know, and that Yeah, 437 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:28,399 Speaker 4: so it's pretty I mean I feel very honored, I 438 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:31,400 Speaker 4: guess in a way that like that people can do 439 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:34,679 Speaker 4: that and that happens so yeah, it's pretty amazing. 440 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:37,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, has there been a it's been such an eventful 441 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:40,320 Speaker 2: year for you, but has there been a highlight you 442 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 2: could single out from the year? 443 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:45,919 Speaker 4: Highlight of the year? Ooh, okay, yes, I feel like 444 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:51,040 Speaker 4: it's interesting. Like I remember, like, you know, the ground 445 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:56,000 Speaker 4: swell for Chapel has been pretty like you know, from 446 00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:57,879 Speaker 4: you know, behind I don't want to say behind the scenes, 447 00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:02,080 Speaker 4: but watching it from the beginning of the year, it 448 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 4: felt like it was like reaching like a fever pitch, 449 00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:07,480 Speaker 4: you know, like even in the beginning of the year, 450 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:09,439 Speaker 4: and like obviously like none of us could tell like 451 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:12,199 Speaker 4: what was how it was going to kind of like 452 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:17,320 Speaker 4: explode into the public consciousness, but like we could tell that, 453 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:19,359 Speaker 4: or I should say, I could tell that that it 454 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:22,080 Speaker 4: was happening. You know. It just felt like more and 455 00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:23,960 Speaker 4: more people were talking about it, more and more people 456 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:26,600 Speaker 4: were hitting me up about songs that we had made together, 457 00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:30,720 Speaker 4: and I just felt like, you know, like it was 458 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:37,320 Speaker 4: pretty So I was saying that, you know, I you 459 00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:39,719 Speaker 4: know this, she she played, she she's done so many, 460 00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:45,159 Speaker 4: so many shows on you know this year that I like, 461 00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:49,199 Speaker 4: I like, silly, silly of me that I didn't I 462 00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:51,840 Speaker 4: didn't go to the first Coachella performance, and I don't 463 00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:54,280 Speaker 4: know why. I was just like, you know, I just 464 00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:57,080 Speaker 4: thought like, oh maybe I like, you know, I'll go 465 00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:00,240 Speaker 4: next week, you know, like I'll go next week to Coachella. 466 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:04,879 Speaker 4: And I remember the day that the first Coachella performance, 467 00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:09,919 Speaker 4: it was so like I just remember like having the 468 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:14,359 Speaker 4: most fomo in my entire life, like literally sitting there 469 00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:17,280 Speaker 4: and like having all these people text me be like 470 00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:19,119 Speaker 4: are you here? Are you here? Where are you? And 471 00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:22,199 Speaker 4: I'm like sitting there in my living room, like you know, 472 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:24,960 Speaker 4: hanging out with my daughter and my wife and being 473 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:27,520 Speaker 4: like no, I'm not here. I'm like I'm not there, 474 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:29,600 Speaker 4: and being like, wow, I really should have been there. 475 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:32,720 Speaker 4: And then I feel like that week, the week the 476 00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:35,080 Speaker 4: first Coachella performance, because I think good Luck Baby would 477 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:39,040 Speaker 4: come out the week before, and then yeah, so good 478 00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:41,360 Speaker 4: Luck Baby had come out the week before. I don't 479 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:44,000 Speaker 4: remember the exact timeline, but I think that had happened. 480 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:47,280 Speaker 4: Then she played Coachella, and then so I went to 481 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:51,399 Speaker 4: the second week at Coachella, and the energy around the 482 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:55,719 Speaker 4: stage was so insane. You could just like feel like 483 00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:58,800 Speaker 4: it was like everybody was like vibrating and It was 484 00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:02,240 Speaker 4: also the day that she said the I'm your favorite 485 00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:05,280 Speaker 4: artist's favorite artist, and I just remember like being in 486 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:08,520 Speaker 4: the moment and being like and her friend Misha was 487 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:11,840 Speaker 4: like taping her, like we didn't know what she was 488 00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:14,600 Speaker 4: going to say before my King Karma, but but like 489 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:19,920 Speaker 4: Misha was taping the set and then she like turns 490 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:22,399 Speaker 4: around like video taping me, because like it was just 491 00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:24,760 Speaker 4: like such a crazy moment and we were and was 492 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:26,800 Speaker 4: like all like there for the for the moment, and 493 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:29,560 Speaker 4: just being in the crowd that day and watching that 494 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:32,720 Speaker 4: happen was just pretty like it felt very very very special, 495 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:36,119 Speaker 4: and I was obviously very very happy to be like 496 00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:38,520 Speaker 4: to be actually there for the moment that that that 497 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:41,080 Speaker 4: all happened. I said, that was a pretty pretty uh 498 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:44,160 Speaker 4: a memory that will last for a long yeah. 499 00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:46,360 Speaker 2: And also a unique moment and that I was trying 500 00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:48,440 Speaker 2: to remember the last time there was like a big 501 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:51,119 Speaker 2: smash album and then a big Smash ship that was 502 00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:54,160 Speaker 2: like a non album track. I was thinking the Beatles 503 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:56,000 Speaker 2: did that all the time, but there weren't really that 504 00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:57,560 Speaker 2: many examples since then. 505 00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:01,119 Speaker 4: No, No, it's you know, it's it's it's I guess 506 00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:03,800 Speaker 4: I feel like I'm gonna be misquoted when I say this, 507 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:06,959 Speaker 4: but like, wasn't Good Vibrations not on an album? 508 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:07,920 Speaker 2: Yeah? 509 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:09,920 Speaker 4: I feel like I feel like I watched the Beach 510 00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:14,080 Speaker 4: Boys documentary and I didn't realize that, like that Good Vibrations. 511 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:15,399 Speaker 3: Was just a one off single, that's right. 512 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:19,320 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, which is kind of crazy, but yeah, yeah, no, 513 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,399 Speaker 4: it's pretty It's pretty amazing to have a song that 514 00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:25,280 Speaker 4: is not on an album, like yeah, to like to 515 00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:27,520 Speaker 4: see them both like kind of going on like on 516 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:30,639 Speaker 4: their own in separate terms, it's like pretty special. Yeah. 517 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:34,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, just to ask you about your own label 518 00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:37,800 Speaker 2: and the fact that you have said you're not in 519 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:39,920 Speaker 2: a hurry to sign anybody else. And I think I 520 00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:41,920 Speaker 2: saw the quote, you know, I have to think about 521 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,000 Speaker 2: who do I want to spend the three hundred days with? 522 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:49,040 Speaker 3: And so you know, you've done the quick. 523 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:51,479 Speaker 2: Hits in your career, you know, the one offs, but 524 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:54,919 Speaker 2: you really seem, I don't know, addicted or accustomed to 525 00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:58,399 Speaker 2: doing the deep dive and it's working. And I'm thinking, 526 00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:01,159 Speaker 2: if you have these great relationlationships, you know, why why 527 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:03,639 Speaker 2: would you want to be going outside? But do you 528 00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:06,119 Speaker 2: think in terms of, yeah, if I'm going to get 529 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:08,320 Speaker 2: involved with somebody I want to do the whole three 530 00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:10,400 Speaker 2: hundred day deal. Is that kind of the figure that's 531 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:11,520 Speaker 2: in your mind, I don't. 532 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:11,560 Speaker 5: You know. 533 00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:14,000 Speaker 4: I actually spent a lot of time thinking about this 534 00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:16,280 Speaker 4: for myself, and it's something that I have to learn 535 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 4: to maybe like reassess in myself because I think as 536 00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:24,480 Speaker 4: I try to, like, I haven't obviously signed anybody new 537 00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:27,720 Speaker 4: to Amusement, but as I go forward with it, I 538 00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:31,359 Speaker 4: definitely think about, like I think my first thought when I, 539 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:34,439 Speaker 4: you know, when when when deciding to like really go 540 00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:37,360 Speaker 4: through with starting a record label, was was that, yes, 541 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:40,359 Speaker 4: I want to find another artist that I can really 542 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:43,399 Speaker 4: dive deep in with. But I think I also have 543 00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:45,320 Speaker 4: to be open to the thought of, like, well, maybe 544 00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:46,919 Speaker 4: I have to just to find an artist that I 545 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:49,959 Speaker 4: that I love that already maybe has a creative collaborator 546 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,600 Speaker 4: that I just am really into their music and want 547 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:54,840 Speaker 4: to be able to help them release it and get 548 00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:56,800 Speaker 4: out get it out to more people, you know, like, 549 00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:00,359 Speaker 4: and I started to open myself up to just like 550 00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:02,800 Speaker 4: finding that as well. I mean, I haven't found it yet, 551 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:05,719 Speaker 4: but but I think I'm open to like other forms 552 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:09,440 Speaker 4: of what can be Amusement Records you know. I mean 553 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:12,040 Speaker 4: I would love to find someone else. But at the 554 00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:14,000 Speaker 4: same time, You're right, I think about that often that 555 00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:18,320 Speaker 4: like I have people like Chapel and Olivia and Conan 556 00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:20,720 Speaker 4: and these artists that I've worked with for years, and 557 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,320 Speaker 4: at some point you kind of realize, oh, like I have. Yeah, 558 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:26,560 Speaker 4: sometimes I think maybe I do have enough creative collaborators 559 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:29,719 Speaker 4: to like, I mean, they keep me very like busy 560 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:34,040 Speaker 4: and fulfilled, like creatively. So like sometimes I go, why 561 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:36,359 Speaker 4: why do I need to find more? You know, And 562 00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:39,640 Speaker 4: and that's in that the regard of you know, like 563 00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 4: for the label, maybe maybe I have to be looking 564 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:45,120 Speaker 4: at it more as like finding just amazing artists that 565 00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:49,880 Speaker 4: already like have their vision you know, uh figured out, 566 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:52,160 Speaker 4: and I'm just helping them as a label, you know, 567 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:53,960 Speaker 4: and not necessarily as a creative collaborator. 568 00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:57,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, is your twenty twenty five pretty mapped out? I 569 00:28:57,520 --> 00:28:59,800 Speaker 2: know there's it sounds like there's still a lot of 570 00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:04,000 Speaker 2: work to do on the Chapel album, So that'll keep you. 571 00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:05,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean yes, and no, I mean in a 572 00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:07,080 Speaker 4: lot of ways it is mapped down. In a lot 573 00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:09,240 Speaker 4: of ways, it's not I'm still you know, like I 574 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:11,000 Speaker 4: feel like with all the artists that I work with, 575 00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:15,760 Speaker 4: you know, like people like working in you know, in spurts. 576 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:17,200 Speaker 4: It's like you do a few weeks, you do a 577 00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:20,320 Speaker 4: couple of days, you take time, you have to reassess 578 00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:23,720 Speaker 4: how it's going. And I feel like, yeah, I feel like, 579 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:26,920 Speaker 4: I feel like there's definitely, uh, there's definitely room for 580 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:30,480 Speaker 4: me to be doing other things, you know. But I'm yeah, 581 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:34,160 Speaker 4: working on working on Chapel stuff, working on some some 582 00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:37,280 Speaker 4: Conan stuff, working on some things right now. 583 00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:41,320 Speaker 2: Well, congratulations just on having the track record of I mean, 584 00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:43,600 Speaker 2: when I think of my favorite albums by young artists 585 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:46,160 Speaker 2: since the turn of the century, it's those two Olivia 586 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:49,440 Speaker 2: albums and Chapel's album, and listening to those, I wouldn't 587 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:55,040 Speaker 2: necessarily know it's the same person who is a key collaborator, 588 00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:58,760 Speaker 2: which is part of what's great, other than the enormous 589 00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:02,000 Speaker 2: melodies that they have common. And maybe that would lead me, 590 00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:04,440 Speaker 2: if I was a smart person and didn't have roles 591 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:06,560 Speaker 2: and credits in front of me, to think, oh, maybe 592 00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:08,960 Speaker 2: maybe some of that stuff's coming from the same well, 593 00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:13,600 Speaker 2: but it doesn't. Their their styles are different enough that 594 00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:18,240 Speaker 2: it's the melodies that they have in common certainly, and 595 00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:22,000 Speaker 2: you just seem to be I certainly want to give 596 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:25,440 Speaker 2: them credit for those two, but I just wonder like 597 00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:28,680 Speaker 2: you seem to be such an endless wellspring of great 598 00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:32,280 Speaker 2: melodic ideas, and you don't ever worry those will try 599 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:32,719 Speaker 2: up to you. 600 00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:35,240 Speaker 3: They just seem to come to you. 601 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:42,840 Speaker 4: Hope not. Yeah, all right, thanks Chris, I really appreciate it. Man. 602 00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:44,400 Speaker 3: Okay, thank you, Dan. 603 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:48,080 Speaker 2: That's it for our conversation today with Daniel Nigro. You 604 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:50,600 Speaker 2: can read more about Dan in Variety's twenty twenty four 605 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:54,200 Speaker 2: Hit Maker's Issue in print or online, as we celebrate 606 00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:56,360 Speaker 2: him as the Producer of the Year, and we'll find 607 00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:58,600 Speaker 2: out soon enough whether the Grammys agree on that honor. 608 00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:05,040 Speaker 5: Thanks for listening. Be sure to leave us a review 609 00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:08,800 Speaker 5: at Apple Podcasts or Amazon Music. We love to hear 610 00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:12,000 Speaker 5: from listeners. Please go to Variety dot com and sign 611 00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:16,080 Speaker 5: up for the free weekly Strictly Business newsletter, and don't 612 00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:19,600 Speaker 5: forget to tune in next week for another episode of 613 00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:20,600 Speaker 5: Strictly Business.