WEBVTT - The History of Carbon Fiber 0:00:03.320 --> 0:00:06.680 Get in touch with technology with tech Stuff from stuff 0:00:06.960 --> 0:00:14.560 dot com. Hey that every one, and welcome to tech Stuff. 0:00:14.560 --> 0:00:19.040 I'm Jonathan Strickland, and today we're doing a part one 0:00:19.079 --> 0:00:21.200 of a two part episode that comes to us courtesy 0:00:21.239 --> 0:00:24.720 of a little listener mail. Now this listener mail comes 0:00:24.760 --> 0:00:29.160 from Matt via email. Again. Yeah, it's getting really popular 0:00:29.280 --> 0:00:32.680 using that email thing. Yeah. The only problem is right 0:00:32.720 --> 0:00:35.680 now we're going through a bit of an email address transition. 0:00:35.840 --> 0:00:38.000 We will give you our new email address at the 0:00:38.159 --> 0:00:40.680 end of this episode, but just keep in mind it 0:00:40.760 --> 0:00:44.159 might take a while for that address to actually take effect. 0:00:44.680 --> 0:00:46.640 So if you really have to get in touch with us, 0:00:46.880 --> 0:00:50.360 use Facebook or Twitter for the near future, or tumbler. 0:00:50.640 --> 0:00:53.040 Good good point. So what Matt had to say was, 0:00:53.080 --> 0:00:55.280 I'd like to hear a show about carbon fiber and 0:00:55.320 --> 0:00:58.280 the other compositive exotic materials used in aerospace and other 0:00:58.320 --> 0:01:00.920 modern vehicles. I work with the machines that convert this 0:01:00.960 --> 0:01:03.960 stuff from spools into airplanes and rockets, so it's a 0:01:04.000 --> 0:01:06.199 topic that is interesting to me and maybe a useful 0:01:06.240 --> 0:01:11.800 reference episode for future topics. We agree, carbon fiber fascinating stuff. 0:01:11.840 --> 0:01:13.880 It is. I didn't even realize how fascinating it was 0:01:14.000 --> 0:01:17.200 until we in fact started doing this research, and because 0:01:17.280 --> 0:01:20.200 it is so fascinating, and since we are splaying this 0:01:20.240 --> 0:01:22.720 into two episodes, we'll probably have to look at other 0:01:22.760 --> 0:01:25.400 exotic materials in another one. Well, we'll make some mention 0:01:25.520 --> 0:01:28.399 of stuff that is similar to what carbon fiber is, 0:01:28.800 --> 0:01:30.920 but we're really going to focus on carbon fiber because 0:01:31.080 --> 0:01:33.280 it's there's a lot there. Oh yeah, there could have 0:01:33.319 --> 0:01:35.759 probably been way more than two episodes about carbon fiber 0:01:35.800 --> 0:01:38.679 if we had really gotten into gritty details about about 0:01:38.720 --> 0:01:42.039 different uses for it and exactly if we had gone 0:01:42.040 --> 0:01:45.120 into the history of this is the first vehicle to use. 0:01:45.280 --> 0:01:47.120 If we had done that, this would have been a 0:01:47.120 --> 0:01:50.760 three partner easily. But but if you're not fans, we 0:01:50.800 --> 0:01:52.960 didn't go into that kind of minute detail. We're going 0:01:53.040 --> 0:01:55.720 to tell you in this episode about the history of 0:01:55.760 --> 0:01:59.240 developing carbon fiber. In our second part we'll look more 0:01:59.480 --> 0:02:03.240 into how it's actually made and the process that that 0:02:03.320 --> 0:02:04.680 you have to go through in order to get a 0:02:04.760 --> 0:02:07.480 raw material to turn into carbon fiber, and some of 0:02:07.520 --> 0:02:12.160 the challenges and benefits thereof. Yes, So, first, what the 0:02:12.160 --> 0:02:15.840 heck is carbon fiber. It's a material made up of 0:02:15.880 --> 0:02:20.119 thin strands of crystalline carbon. Well, there you go, episode over, 0:02:20.240 --> 0:02:22.680 Thanks guys. Yeah, but no, we're gonna we're gonna give 0:02:22.680 --> 0:02:25.560 a little more detailed than that. So the thickness of 0:02:25.600 --> 0:02:28.640 an individual strand of carbon fiber can be thinner than 0:02:28.680 --> 0:02:31.639 a human hair by by many factors. Oh yeah, yeah, 0:02:31.720 --> 0:02:34.239 and um, if you're wondering, yes, it is in fact 0:02:34.320 --> 0:02:38.560 structurally similar to graphine and carbon nanotubes, the difference being 0:02:38.560 --> 0:02:40.959 in the way that the sheets of carbon atoms are 0:02:40.960 --> 0:02:43.240 are packed and interlocked. Yeah, this is one of those 0:02:43.240 --> 0:02:46.079 amazing things about carbon. You know, if you put the 0:02:46.440 --> 0:02:49.520 carbon atoms in one formation, you get this very soft 0:02:49.600 --> 0:02:52.520 material that you would find in pencils, for example. You 0:02:52.560 --> 0:02:56.160 put it in a different kind of modular combination and 0:02:56.200 --> 0:03:00.800 you get diamond about as different as to substance as convene. Right, 0:03:00.840 --> 0:03:03.959 So it really shows that just by changing these these 0:03:04.120 --> 0:03:08.959 orientations you can really change the properties of this one material. Well, 0:03:09.120 --> 0:03:12.440 those little strands, those strands that are thinner than a 0:03:12.520 --> 0:03:15.000 human hair, can be twisted together to make a yarn 0:03:15.280 --> 0:03:19.400 like material and then woven like cloth, which can then 0:03:19.400 --> 0:03:21.840 be laid in a mold and then coated with resin 0:03:22.000 --> 0:03:24.440 or or a plastic So that it will take on 0:03:24.520 --> 0:03:28.280 a permanent shape. So, right, the coated stuff itself is 0:03:28.320 --> 0:03:31.480 frequently referred to as carbon fiber, but you may also 0:03:31.520 --> 0:03:36.560 see it more precisely referred to as carbon fiber reinforced polymer. 0:03:37.040 --> 0:03:39.800 And that's it rolls off the tongue, right, We're just 0:03:39.840 --> 0:03:43.280 gonna call it carbon fiber, so, uh, forgive us for 0:03:43.440 --> 0:03:46.760 taking a shortcut. But it has a lot of interesting properties. Right. 0:03:46.800 --> 0:03:50.440 So for one thing, it's five times stronger than steel 0:03:51.000 --> 0:03:55.280 and twice as stiff as steel, but it's lighter than steel, 0:03:55.400 --> 0:03:59.120 about two thirds lighter by volume. Also about eight times 0:03:59.160 --> 0:04:03.440 stronger than a loominum or aluminium depending on where you live, um, 0:04:03.480 --> 0:04:06.680 which is really handy since aluminum is lower weight by 0:04:06.760 --> 0:04:09.720 volume is offset by its lower strength, meaning that you 0:04:09.720 --> 0:04:11.400 have to use a lot more of it to get 0:04:11.440 --> 0:04:15.000 stuff done. Right, So, now you've got this new material 0:04:15.160 --> 0:04:17.560 that you can use instead of that in lots of 0:04:17.600 --> 0:04:21.200 different products, and as long as it meets the needs 0:04:21.279 --> 0:04:24.200 of whatever that product is, you are getting a benefit 0:04:24.400 --> 0:04:27.640 of something that's stronger and lighter. That's pretty amazing stuff. 0:04:27.800 --> 0:04:30.760 So who does use this? Well, the auto industry uses 0:04:30.800 --> 0:04:34.200 a lot of carbon fiber, right, it's main mainly there 0:04:34.240 --> 0:04:37.960 to make the components of a car lighter and stronger, 0:04:38.080 --> 0:04:40.919 which obviously I mean that's the properties of the material, 0:04:41.000 --> 0:04:43.440 so that makes sense to transfer it to the final product. 0:04:43.960 --> 0:04:47.039 So why would you want a lighter vehicle? The main 0:04:47.080 --> 0:04:50.320 reason is cause it takes less power to move a 0:04:50.400 --> 0:04:53.400 lighter vehicle than a heavier vehicle, So that means that 0:04:53.520 --> 0:04:56.719 you can make a more efficient engine. You're using less 0:04:56.839 --> 0:05:00.480 energy to move the actual vehicle, and as long as 0:05:00.480 --> 0:05:04.520 that vehicle has maintained its strength, so you haven't compromised 0:05:04.520 --> 0:05:06.840 the safety of the people who are in the vehicle, 0:05:07.120 --> 0:05:10.120 that's a good thing. Oh sure, carbon fiber usually makes 0:05:10.120 --> 0:05:12.880 the car actually more resistant to impact than it would 0:05:12.880 --> 0:05:15.960 be with just regular steel components. And in terms of 0:05:15.960 --> 0:05:19.760 that efficiency, um according to the oak Ridge National Laboratory, 0:05:19.839 --> 0:05:22.400 which is this huge lab run by the Department of Energy, 0:05:22.440 --> 0:05:25.919 you can make a cart more efficient just by trading 0:05:25.920 --> 0:05:28.680 out a steel body for a carbon fiber one. So 0:05:28.760 --> 0:05:31.920 that means that you would end up over time saving 0:05:32.120 --> 0:05:34.800 lots of money and fuel costs, not to mention the 0:05:34.960 --> 0:05:39.080 environmental impact of having to consume less fuel to get around. 0:05:39.600 --> 0:05:42.760 Uh So these are some interesting uh uses of carbon 0:05:42.800 --> 0:05:44.240 fiber is not the only one. There are a lot 0:05:44.279 --> 0:05:46.839 of others will talk about. For example, we you know, 0:05:46.880 --> 0:05:51.000 Matt mentioned aerospace, a big, big industry that relies on 0:05:51.040 --> 0:05:53.920 carbon fiber. Yeah, yeah, um, and a lot of really 0:05:54.040 --> 0:05:57.640 mundane kind of things like golf clubs or bicycles, fishing rods, 0:05:57.720 --> 0:06:01.800 sailboat masts, and wind turbines. So the thing about carbon 0:06:01.800 --> 0:06:04.680 fiber is, well, I guess we should go into the 0:06:04.760 --> 0:06:06.440 history and then I'll tell you what the thing about 0:06:06.440 --> 0:06:12.120 carbon fiber is. That's foreshadowing so earliest use of carbon fibers. 0:06:12.560 --> 0:06:15.359 The interesting thing here is that the earliest use I 0:06:15.360 --> 0:06:18.240 could find predates their applications in any of the industries 0:06:18.279 --> 0:06:21.440 we just mentioned. And in fact, it wasn't even used 0:06:21.560 --> 0:06:24.720 to build something like a structure. It wasn't used for 0:06:24.920 --> 0:06:27.960 its strength or lightness. It was used for an entirely 0:06:28.000 --> 0:06:31.120 different property that's inherent with carbon fiber, which is its 0:06:31.160 --> 0:06:35.479 resistance to heat. Thomas Edison, Yeah, a different kind of light. 0:06:36.160 --> 0:06:39.680 Yeah yeah, exactly, not light as in less heavy light 0:06:39.760 --> 0:06:43.919 as in let there be so Thomas Edison, who, of 0:06:43.960 --> 0:06:47.800 course we know, beloved Internet darling, one of the favorites. 0:06:48.120 --> 0:06:49.960 I guess I forgot to boo when when we when 0:06:49.960 --> 0:06:52.000 you said his name right right, I'm sorry, Okay, well 0:06:52.000 --> 0:06:56.680 we'll we'll put it in there for you Internet boo. Yes, 0:06:56.760 --> 0:07:00.400 Thomas Hays in the Elephant electrocutor uh who did not 0:07:00.440 --> 0:07:03.520 personally do that, but still use them as filaments for 0:07:03.640 --> 0:07:07.159 early light bulbs way back in eighteen seventy nine because 0:07:07.200 --> 0:07:09.920 of that high tolerance for heat. Now they can also 0:07:10.000 --> 0:07:14.160 conduct electricity, but they have a high resistance. If you remember, 0:07:14.240 --> 0:07:18.360 resistance is what we'd call the the the kind of 0:07:18.360 --> 0:07:23.840 opposing element that keeps electrons from flowing through a material smoothly. 0:07:24.280 --> 0:07:27.160 So if you have a high resistance and you want 0:07:27.240 --> 0:07:30.080 to try and get electric electrons from point A to 0:07:30.160 --> 0:07:32.440 point B, you're not getting as many to point B 0:07:32.840 --> 0:07:35.320 as we're leaving point A because some of those are 0:07:35.440 --> 0:07:39.200 converted into that electrons converting into heat. You're losing it 0:07:39.240 --> 0:07:42.760 through that resistance. I'm oversimplifying, but this is basically what's happening. 0:07:43.040 --> 0:07:46.520 So with light bulbs, that's exactly what you do want. 0:07:46.560 --> 0:07:49.200 You want to have something that's heating up, and as 0:07:49.240 --> 0:07:52.600 it heats up, it starts to give off photons light particles. 0:07:52.640 --> 0:07:55.760 That's what lets us see that light. And of course, 0:07:55.800 --> 0:07:57.280 in this case we're talking about light that's in the 0:07:57.320 --> 0:07:59.880 visible spectrum wouldn't be much used to us outside of 0:08:00.000 --> 0:08:02.560 at So you end up using this material that has 0:08:02.680 --> 0:08:06.000 a resistance to high temperatures, because if it didn't, it 0:08:06.040 --> 0:08:07.760 would just burn up. You know, you would get light, 0:08:07.800 --> 0:08:09.160 but it would burn up, and then your light bulb 0:08:09.160 --> 0:08:11.200 would be useless. That's just a fire, and that's less 0:08:11.280 --> 0:08:14.800 used exactly. And while you would try and create a 0:08:14.840 --> 0:08:18.200 vacuum within the light bulb so you couldn't really burn burn, 0:08:18.960 --> 0:08:22.640 you would still end up having the material itself deteriorate 0:08:22.680 --> 0:08:24.760 really quickly and the light bulb would be broken. And 0:08:25.000 --> 0:08:27.560 so anytime you know, when you have an old incandescent 0:08:27.640 --> 0:08:30.400 light bulb and you hear it, they'll pop and then 0:08:30.440 --> 0:08:33.760 you shake it and you can hear the little chicken. Yeah, 0:08:33.800 --> 0:08:36.600 that's the filament that has given out because it has 0:08:36.640 --> 0:08:40.400 been worn away so much. So anyway, the carbon fiber 0:08:41.280 --> 0:08:44.200 tended to be a really good candidate for this filament, 0:08:44.520 --> 0:08:47.520 and that's what Thomas Sen used. So how did he 0:08:47.679 --> 0:08:53.440 create carbon fiber? Well, he carbonized something, which means that 0:08:53.480 --> 0:08:56.920 you're taking one material and you're converting it into these 0:08:57.040 --> 0:09:01.360 these carbon atoms, these crystalline structures of carbon atoms. Now 0:09:01.400 --> 0:09:05.640 specifically what Thomas Ysen was using was cotton and bamboo, 0:09:06.000 --> 0:09:09.160 different different ones for different types of light bulbs. Experiment 0:09:09.200 --> 0:09:11.880 with a lot of different materials. Sure, but but carbonization 0:09:11.960 --> 0:09:14.560 is also how we make charcoal. We we carbonized wood. 0:09:14.800 --> 0:09:18.280 That's exactly right. And so if you wanted to carbonize wood, 0:09:18.320 --> 0:09:20.400 if you wanted to make your own charcoal, you would 0:09:20.440 --> 0:09:22.400 have a few steps. One is that you want to 0:09:22.440 --> 0:09:25.800 remove all the moisture you can from the organic material, 0:09:26.280 --> 0:09:29.319 usually through evaporation and heating. So with would we call 0:09:29.360 --> 0:09:32.240 it seasoning. And you may remember that just in our 0:09:32.240 --> 0:09:36.960 recent podcast about the HMS victory, they would season would 0:09:37.080 --> 0:09:39.160 in order to get as much moisture out of it 0:09:39.200 --> 0:09:42.160 as possible and made the wood stronger as a result. 0:09:42.880 --> 0:09:45.280 In this case, it's not to make the wood stronger, 0:09:45.320 --> 0:09:47.520 it's really just to get rid of all that moisture. 0:09:47.920 --> 0:09:50.360 And the next you would increase the temperature to induce 0:09:50.480 --> 0:09:54.920 pyrolysisis it's a basic chemical change brought upon a material 0:09:54.960 --> 0:09:57.840 through the application of heat. Okay, And what's important in 0:09:57.840 --> 0:09:59.840 this chemical change is that you don't allow any ox 0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:02.240 gen to come into contact with the material during the 0:10:02.280 --> 0:10:05.439 process so that it can't burn right. Because, as we remember, 0:10:05.720 --> 0:10:09.560 the three things you need are you need you need fuel, 0:10:10.000 --> 0:10:12.400 you need oxygen, and you need heat to create fire. 0:10:12.480 --> 0:10:14.880 So if you take any of those three away, you 0:10:14.920 --> 0:10:17.520 don't have fire. So by taking the oxygen away, you 0:10:17.520 --> 0:10:20.720 don't have to worry about prematurely burning your material, and 0:10:20.800 --> 0:10:23.800 you can convert it to carbon without it actually catching fire. 0:10:24.880 --> 0:10:28.319 Very important in any application, specifically for charcoal, because you 0:10:28.320 --> 0:10:30.280 don't want to burn it before you burn it right, 0:10:30.960 --> 0:10:36.040 Otherwise barbecues over before it began. Yeah, I've been in 0:10:36.080 --> 0:10:39.160 some states that some prey sad barbecue with organic material. 0:10:39.280 --> 0:10:41.880 That means getting all this stuff carbon converted down to 0:10:41.920 --> 0:10:44.600 carbon while the other stuff like water vapor essentially just 0:10:44.679 --> 0:10:48.360 kind of evaporates away or kind of vibrates away. Technically, 0:10:48.360 --> 0:10:51.120 the atoms that are other than carbon in the material 0:10:51.280 --> 0:10:54.040 are expelled during the processing. Yeah, you can kind of 0:10:54.080 --> 0:10:56.520 think like carbon. They're allowed to stay at the party. 0:10:56.640 --> 0:10:59.840 Everyone else is encouraged by the bouncer to leave. So, 0:11:00.240 --> 0:11:02.959 uh depend to those parties and a lot of chemical 0:11:03.000 --> 0:11:08.199 processes go on through pyrolysis. There's one called isomerization. That's 0:11:08.200 --> 0:11:10.880 when a molecule gets rearranged into another molecule that has 0:11:10.880 --> 0:11:14.720 the same constituent atoms but a different physical structure. You know, 0:11:14.800 --> 0:11:17.480 like I was mentioning earlier, the you know, the way 0:11:17.520 --> 0:11:21.160 you construct carbon atoms together can't depend on that that 0:11:21.200 --> 0:11:25.120 determines what properties that material has pencil, lead or diamonds. Ye, 0:11:25.360 --> 0:11:28.319 same thing with any other kind of molecule. You just, well, 0:11:28.400 --> 0:11:31.480 not any but different molecules. You rearrange the structure of 0:11:31.520 --> 0:11:33.839 the molecule, you end up with stuff that has very 0:11:33.880 --> 0:11:37.360 different properties from each other. Which is another fascinating thing. 0:11:37.480 --> 0:11:39.920 You say, all the basic ingredients are the same, but 0:11:40.080 --> 0:11:42.880 just by the way you arrange the atoms within that 0:11:42.920 --> 0:11:48.040 molecular structure, you change the actual properties of the overall substance. 0:11:48.440 --> 0:11:51.160 This is what I think is awesome about science. I 0:11:51.200 --> 0:11:53.960 don't fully understand it because I'm not a chemist, but 0:11:54.080 --> 0:11:58.280 I really find it fascinating. Anyway. Another thing that you 0:11:58.320 --> 0:12:03.200 would have going on through pyrolysis, it's called transfer hydrogen hydrogenation. 0:12:03.840 --> 0:12:05.360 This is where you can tell I'm not a chemist 0:12:05.360 --> 0:12:07.840 because I can't say any of the words. But this 0:12:07.880 --> 0:12:10.120 is the addition of hydrogen as one would imagine to 0:12:10.200 --> 0:12:13.400 a molecule from a source other than from hydrogen gas, 0:12:13.480 --> 0:12:16.040 which is not the easiest thing to get hold of 0:12:16.240 --> 0:12:21.080 because again, hydrogen is usually uh captured in some other 0:12:21.280 --> 0:12:24.240 kind of molecular bonds. It gets pretty buddy buddy with 0:12:24.320 --> 0:12:26.920 most other things. Yeah, it's um, it's it's just a 0:12:26.920 --> 0:12:30.160 gregarious kind of atom. It likes to hang out with budlies. 0:12:30.640 --> 0:12:33.679 So what you're left with is carbonized material. So in 0:12:33.720 --> 0:12:36.680 the case of cotton or bamboo, it's very fibrous in nature. 0:12:37.040 --> 0:12:42.000 So then you have carbon fibers again not meant to know, 0:12:42.080 --> 0:12:45.920 weave together to make some sort of material that's stronger 0:12:45.960 --> 0:12:49.040 and lighter than steel, but still had it very good use. 0:12:49.640 --> 0:12:52.960 So these were the fibers that would conduct electricity. They 0:12:53.000 --> 0:12:55.880 had the high resistance. You lose some of that energy 0:12:55.960 --> 0:12:58.439 as heat, but that's exactly what you want, so you're 0:12:58.480 --> 0:13:01.360 not not losing it so much is converting it over 0:13:01.400 --> 0:13:06.600 to heat to create light. Um. This is actually called incandescence, 0:13:06.600 --> 0:13:09.360 where you heat up a material enough so that it 0:13:09.440 --> 0:13:13.920 starts to give off light, hence the name incandescent light bulbs. 0:13:14.600 --> 0:13:18.720 And you've probably seen this in multiple applications, not just 0:13:18.800 --> 0:13:21.560 incandescent bulbs. I assume most of our our listeners have 0:13:21.640 --> 0:13:24.680 seen an incandescent bulb, even though they are becoming more 0:13:24.760 --> 0:13:27.959 and more rare. But in any material that has heated 0:13:28.040 --> 0:13:32.440 up beyond it's that limit, you start to see it glow, unless, 0:13:32.480 --> 0:13:35.760 of course, it's flammable and it's in the presence of oxygen, 0:13:35.760 --> 0:13:39.200 in which case you saw it catch fire. So that's 0:13:39.600 --> 0:13:43.320 exactly why Thomasson decided to use this and ended up 0:13:43.360 --> 0:13:46.560 being a success. It took some experiments to get it 0:13:47.040 --> 0:13:49.840 just right, and even then, um, you know, obviously over 0:13:50.000 --> 0:13:53.320 time we made great improvements to the light bulb using 0:13:53.400 --> 0:13:57.040 different types of material as filament, not just cotton or bamboo, 0:13:57.120 --> 0:14:01.320 carbon fibers, but that was the very first application of 0:14:01.360 --> 0:14:06.080 carbon fibers in any kind of manufacturing process. Now we've 0:14:06.080 --> 0:14:08.360 got a lot more to talk about in the history 0:14:08.400 --> 0:14:11.040 of carbon fibers, but before we do that, let's take 0:14:11.040 --> 0:14:14.560 a quick break to thank our sponsor. And we're back. 0:14:14.800 --> 0:14:17.880 So we're still in the late nineteenth century. This is 0:14:17.960 --> 0:14:21.160 eighteen eighties six and I still can't believe that for 0:14:21.240 --> 0:14:25.840 such a space age quote unquote space age. Yeah, yeah, 0:14:25.920 --> 0:14:30.400 it's to the nineteenth century. Yeah, now granted again used 0:14:30.400 --> 0:14:33.240 for different purposes, but still it's when you hear carbon 0:14:33.280 --> 0:14:36.760 fiber that sounds to me like maybe the nineteen seventies 0:14:36.840 --> 0:14:40.200 was where it got started, but no, I was completely wrong. 0:14:40.520 --> 0:14:43.880 So you have the National Carbon Company, which was the 0:14:43.920 --> 0:14:48.120 first company to make synthetic carbon, and it merged with 0:14:48.200 --> 0:14:52.000 another company called Union Carbide in nineteen seventeen, and eventually 0:14:52.040 --> 0:14:57.360 that company became Union Carbide Corporation in nineteen fifty seven. Now, 0:14:57.640 --> 0:14:59.920 the whole purpose of this was to make carbon five 0:15:00.200 --> 0:15:03.240 for things like light bulbs, so we're still in that stage. 0:15:03.560 --> 0:15:07.160 And meanwhile, in the nineteen thirties he had engineers who 0:15:07.200 --> 0:15:12.640 began to experiment with fiber reinforced composites or f rps, 0:15:12.840 --> 0:15:16.720 which fiber reinforced composite to f r P. Uh, it 0:15:17.000 --> 0:15:22.920 technically stands for fiber reinforced polymers, but still it confuses me. Anyway, 0:15:22.960 --> 0:15:25.360 This is a composite material made out of a pattern 0:15:25.400 --> 0:15:30.160 of polymers that are reinforced by fibers. The fibers themselves 0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:34.880 are needed to enhance elasticity and strength of this plastic material. 0:15:35.320 --> 0:15:39.480 So the first record use, according to oak Ridge National Laboratory, 0:15:39.760 --> 0:15:42.840 was for a boat hole so we've you know, you've 0:15:42.880 --> 0:15:45.440 seen fiberglass boats. I'm sure. I mean that there's a 0:15:45.520 --> 0:15:49.280 very common thing for small boats in particular, seeing fiberglass boats. 0:15:49.480 --> 0:15:53.160 That's essentially what we're talking about. So fiberglass is used 0:15:53.200 --> 0:15:56.360 in a lot of different applications today. It's not the 0:15:56.400 --> 0:15:59.880 same thing as carbon fiber, but the the process will 0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:04.320 I mean not the process, but the overall outcome using yeah, exactly, 0:16:04.400 --> 0:16:09.120 using fibers to reinforce a structure, uh is is very 0:16:09.200 --> 0:16:11.800 similar to what would end up being used as in 0:16:11.840 --> 0:16:14.800 the carbon fiber industry, especially when you have the goal 0:16:14.840 --> 0:16:17.640 of making something very strong and very light weight exactly. 0:16:17.720 --> 0:16:21.080 So by the nineteen forties, the defense industry began to 0:16:21.120 --> 0:16:25.120 get really interested in f rps for obvious reasons. So 0:16:25.160 --> 0:16:27.360 the search was on for new types of fiber that 0:16:27.400 --> 0:16:30.320 can make stuff stronger and lighter, and a lot of 0:16:30.320 --> 0:16:32.760 work and material science was dedicated to finding out whether 0:16:32.800 --> 0:16:36.960 the theoretical strength of certain materials could translate into practical use. 0:16:37.080 --> 0:16:39.960 So what was happening was that scientists were studying various 0:16:40.000 --> 0:16:43.120 materials and they would say, all right, based upon the 0:16:43.160 --> 0:16:48.120 molecular structure of this material in theory, it has x 0:16:48.160 --> 0:16:51.560 amount of strength compared to some other material, and why 0:16:51.640 --> 0:16:55.160 amount of weight by volume compared to some other material 0:16:56.080 --> 0:16:59.640 if we were able to to manufacture it properly, and 0:17:00.040 --> 0:17:03.320 so the difference between theory and reality. Often there's a 0:17:03.360 --> 0:17:05.960 gap there because we just don't have the perfect way 0:17:06.040 --> 0:17:09.879 to manufacture the stuff that is theoretically possible, or to 0:17:10.040 --> 0:17:14.080 manufacture it in a way that is uh less than 0:17:14.600 --> 0:17:18.760 completely expensive. Yeah, this, especially early on, that is a 0:17:18.880 --> 0:17:23.679 huge challenge because you often have to invent new ways 0:17:23.760 --> 0:17:27.600 to create material. So that means that you have to 0:17:27.640 --> 0:17:30.280 spend a lot of money in research and development and 0:17:30.280 --> 0:17:35.120 and to build specialty equipment to make that stuff. It's 0:17:35.160 --> 0:17:38.520 one of the reasons why carbon fiber is not as 0:17:38.720 --> 0:17:41.480 uh plentiful as it could be. But we'll talk about 0:17:41.520 --> 0:17:44.880 that more later. Yeah. So back in the nineteen fifties, 0:17:44.920 --> 0:17:47.320 there were three really big drivers in the United States 0:17:47.359 --> 0:17:50.879 that pushed the development of these carbon fibers forward. That's true. 0:17:51.240 --> 0:17:55.160 So you had the industrial demand for lightweight, strong material, 0:17:55.240 --> 0:17:59.760 which included industries like aerospace, electronics, sports equipment, that kind 0:17:59.760 --> 0:18:02.399 of thing. Then there was the work in solid state 0:18:02.480 --> 0:18:06.240 materials that predicted high potential crystal strengths for certain types 0:18:06.400 --> 0:18:08.199 of material. This is what I was talking about just 0:18:08.240 --> 0:18:10.639 a second ago, where people were doing this kind of 0:18:10.680 --> 0:18:14.280 theoretical work saying, hey, if we just rearranged stuff this 0:18:14.320 --> 0:18:17.840 way in theory, it should be even stronger and lighter. 0:18:17.960 --> 0:18:19.960 Let's just find a way of making that happen. The 0:18:20.000 --> 0:18:23.600 math worked out and the physical process would follow. That's 0:18:23.640 --> 0:18:26.679 exactly right. And then the third one was that and 0:18:26.760 --> 0:18:29.520 this is probably the most important driver. During the nineteen fifties, 0:18:29.880 --> 0:18:33.800 the U. S. Economy was going like gangbusters, y'all. So 0:18:33.960 --> 0:18:37.359 with that kind of bounty there was doing so well 0:18:37.880 --> 0:18:42.600 that there was the ability to afford in investing in 0:18:42.640 --> 0:18:45.639 research and development and pushing these kind of technologies forward. 0:18:45.880 --> 0:18:49.080 Even if they had an initial high price to get 0:18:49.119 --> 0:18:52.080 into it, we could afford to do it. So that 0:18:52.160 --> 0:18:55.399 was a big driver. Actually. So we get to the 0:18:55.480 --> 0:18:59.280 years of nine to nineteen sixty, that's when we had 0:18:59.320 --> 0:19:04.400 companies I'm merrily the Union Carbyte Corporation previously mentioned. Yep, 0:19:04.520 --> 0:19:08.080 they began to discover practical means of using carbon fibers 0:19:08.119 --> 0:19:11.280 as reinforcement. Those f rps we were talking about similar 0:19:11.320 --> 0:19:14.439 to that. So these carbon fibers didn't come from cotton 0:19:14.640 --> 0:19:17.600 or bamboo, right they were. They were using materials like 0:19:17.720 --> 0:19:21.600 rayon or poly acrylon, nitrial or pan. Yeah we're gonna 0:19:21.720 --> 0:19:24.959 say pan because I kind of enjoy saying poly acryla 0:19:25.040 --> 0:19:29.080 night trial. I'll never be able to do it. My 0:19:29.080 --> 0:19:32.000 my mouth parts don't work that way. But no, carbon 0:19:32.000 --> 0:19:36.320 fibers from these are made from precursor fibers, which is 0:19:36.320 --> 0:19:38.200 made from you know, the ray on, our our pan. 0:19:38.720 --> 0:19:41.560 So the precursor fiber. We we use precursor as the 0:19:41.680 --> 0:19:44.600 term for stuff that you're going to convert into carbon fiber. 0:19:44.720 --> 0:19:48.040 And that at Loan like, the precursor stuff had its 0:19:48.080 --> 0:19:51.639 own manufacturing processes, right you you had these are synthetic 0:19:51.680 --> 0:19:55.520 materials that we had to create first that then we 0:19:55.560 --> 0:19:58.879 would create into carbon fibers. So it's a it's a 0:19:58.920 --> 0:20:03.479 two step proces us in a grand overview, Yes, many 0:20:03.560 --> 0:20:06.119 smaller steps within exactly, which we will talk about in 0:20:06.119 --> 0:20:10.560 our second episode trust us for now. Yes, so, but 0:20:10.640 --> 0:20:12.959 the important thing here to remember is that it's not 0:20:13.040 --> 0:20:14.920 like you would go out to the fields and get 0:20:14.960 --> 0:20:18.240 some rayon. You have to make the rayon first and 0:20:18.280 --> 0:20:20.760 then you convert the rayon into carbon fiber. That just 0:20:20.800 --> 0:20:23.159 cracked me up. Because the mental image of Fields of 0:20:23.200 --> 0:20:25.919 Rayon was was a circle of hell. According to me, 0:20:26.000 --> 0:20:28.359 the Fields of Rayon I think would be a great 0:20:28.440 --> 0:20:32.320 name for a band. Yeah, I'll get on that. But 0:20:32.720 --> 0:20:36.439 the the important thing here was that using these types 0:20:36.480 --> 0:20:39.439 of precursor fibers were what allowed them to create the 0:20:39.680 --> 0:20:43.040 different shapes that carbon fiber could come into. They were 0:20:43.080 --> 0:20:46.080 they were really well formed for that sort of stuff. 0:20:46.119 --> 0:20:50.680 They were already strong and easily manipulatable. Yes, And if 0:20:50.680 --> 0:20:54.199 you want to learn more about the history of the 0:20:54.280 --> 0:20:57.600 Union car By Corporation and its role in this, I 0:20:57.680 --> 0:21:01.160 recommend going to a c s Oregon has a lot 0:21:01.200 --> 0:21:03.879 on the history of carbon fiber development, goes into a 0:21:03.960 --> 0:21:06.439 huge amount detail. And again, if we were to go 0:21:06.480 --> 0:21:08.879 into as much detail as some of these sources do, 0:21:09.640 --> 0:21:11.639 we'd be doing like a five part series. And I 0:21:11.640 --> 0:21:13.760 think some of you guys might get a little antsy 0:21:14.080 --> 0:21:16.600 uh yeah. I I did want to mention in nine 0:21:17.359 --> 0:21:20.359 three that there was a way to make carbon fibers 0:21:20.400 --> 0:21:24.919 from petroleum pitch debut um and those are those are 0:21:24.920 --> 0:21:27.880 so many solid polymers kind of kind of like tar. Yeah, yeah, 0:21:27.920 --> 0:21:30.280 And that was that's different obviously because you can actually 0:21:30.280 --> 0:21:32.800 find tar in nature, this was not something that you 0:21:32.800 --> 0:21:37.000 would have to first create the polymer and then do 0:21:37.200 --> 0:21:40.440 the carbonization on it. You could get the actual stuff 0:21:40.520 --> 0:21:42.480 and then separate out what you needed and then do 0:21:42.520 --> 0:21:46.440 the carbonization on that um And they experimented with lots 0:21:46.440 --> 0:21:49.240 of other materials to try and manufacture carbon fibers. That 0:21:49.320 --> 0:21:54.720 included polyesters, polyfinal alcohol, and phenolic resins yep. But it 0:21:54.760 --> 0:21:56.960 turned out that Pan, Rayon and Pitched the first three 0:21:56.960 --> 0:21:59.720 they really concentrate on, we're the most useful for creating 0:21:59.800 --> 0:22:02.640 high strength material. So so it turned up their their 0:22:02.720 --> 0:22:07.320 initial impulse was exactly what made the most sense. It 0:22:07.400 --> 0:22:10.760 also made the most sense from a dollar standpoint, like 0:22:10.800 --> 0:22:15.320 the having the manufacturing industries that are already established for 0:22:15.400 --> 0:22:18.320 at least Rayon and Pan meant that it was less 0:22:18.320 --> 0:22:21.440 expensive than to create something out of whole cloth, and 0:22:21.600 --> 0:22:26.040 petroleum pitch could be a byproduct of the petroleum industry, 0:22:26.200 --> 0:22:28.520 So that's kind of a that's kind of a gimme, right. 0:22:29.119 --> 0:22:32.000 So getting back to those drivers we were talking about, 0:22:32.440 --> 0:22:35.399