Speaker 1: If there's one thing that's happening is Corona's keeping us outside.
Speaker 1: That's where I feel safest.
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely taking more walks.
Speaker 1: You've been bike riding, Oh man, I've been biking, like
Speaker 1: my life depends on it. Tour de France, Tour to
Speaker 1: four ninety five, I'm riding underneath it. Do you remember
Speaker 1: when people were talking about how the air quality was
Speaker 1: improven because everyone was staying home.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. There were so many things that were
Speaker 2: coming out at the right at the beginning of quarantine
Speaker 2: that was like the air quality in la is the
Speaker 2: best it's ever been, or something like that, and I
Speaker 2: was like, oh my gosh, it's because no one is
Speaker 2: driving around. Everybody was at home, so the air quality
Speaker 2: was better.
Speaker 1: And I was like, Yo, this is a wake up call.
Speaker 1: We're really out here just polluting all over the planet, honestly,
Speaker 1: and we don't even that was our day to day.
Speaker 3: We didn't even think about it. We didn't.
Speaker 2: And what it also showed us is that we can
Speaker 2: be doing better. When you know better, you do better.
Speaker 2: So now that we know what it takes, what you're
Speaker 2: gonna do?
Speaker 3: Hey, how are you going to.
Speaker 2: I'm t t and I'm Ziah and from Spotify. This
Speaker 2: is Dope Labs. You know what, I've been noticing what
Speaker 2: every time we're go on a walk. So me and
Speaker 2: Jimmy we have like this this game that we play
Speaker 2: and we try and spot the rubber gloves or spot
Speaker 2: the mask on the ground. What's not on people? Because
Speaker 2: now that everybody is wearing gloves and masks, now we're
Speaker 2: seeing a lot of gloves and masks just on the
Speaker 2: ground in the street, in the grass. Like I saw
Speaker 2: a bird packing at a mask the other day and
Speaker 2: I was just like, what is going on?
Speaker 3: That's crazy.
Speaker 2: We got coronavirus, but then we're also continuing to kill
Speaker 2: the planet.
Speaker 1: And you know where those masks are going to end up.
Speaker 1: We know exactly where they're going, right into the ocean exactly.
Speaker 1: And that's today's topic. We're talking about the ocean and
Speaker 1: specifically how the ocean is connected to the health and
Speaker 1: vitality of our planet because as we all know, we
Speaker 1: could be doing better.
Speaker 2: Like when you talk about like there was so many
Speaker 2: things that came out about how many microplastics that we're
Speaker 2: starting to find in the ocean and in the fish
Speaker 2: that we eat that are in the ocean and finding
Speaker 2: all these microplastics because we're not disposing of our plastic
Speaker 2: and our waists properly, Like we know these things already,
Speaker 2: and y'all are throwing your gloves and masks on the ground.
Speaker 1: There's so much to consider when talking about climate change,
Speaker 1: So why are we only focusing on the ocean?
Speaker 2: I feel like people when we talk about climent a change,
Speaker 2: Like people think about you know, emissions from our cars,
Speaker 2: like yeah, we want electric cars and things like that,
Speaker 2: and we think about recycling, reduce, reuse, recycle, but we
Speaker 2: don't talk about the ocean like really at all. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, sometimes it comes up and people are like, yeah,
Speaker 2: the ocean is important, like let's not forget, but then
Speaker 2: we forget about the ocean.
Speaker 3: Yeah. It's like out of sight, out of.
Speaker 2: Mind exactly because most of us don't live on the ocean,
Speaker 2: and so it's not something that we interact with every day.
Speaker 2: But we do interact with you know, trees, and we
Speaker 2: interact with our cars and things like that. So what
Speaker 2: we're doing with this lab today is bringing the ocean
Speaker 2: to you.
Speaker 3: Let's get into the recitation.
Speaker 2: So what do we know?
Speaker 1: I know, the planet is seventy one percent water. But
Speaker 1: I feel like I learned a lot of stuff as
Speaker 1: a kid about the ocean, and I haven't really brought
Speaker 1: that stuff back to the.
Speaker 3: Forefront of my mind.
Speaker 1: Like, I know the ocean is all connected and it
Speaker 1: moves water, but I don't really know the significance of
Speaker 1: that why I should care about it.
Speaker 3: I mean, I know I care, but I don't really
Speaker 3: know the details.
Speaker 2: We know that the ocean affects all things, right, yeah,
Speaker 2: but in what way you know? I mean, we can't
Speaker 2: use the We can't cop out and say, oh, that's
Speaker 2: not our area of research, because it's.
Speaker 3: Just like you live here exactly.
Speaker 2: It's like, oh, this is my house, but I don't
Speaker 2: know nothing about the roof.
Speaker 1: What, Yeah, you're gonna find out exactly. I think we
Speaker 1: should just start with that baseline assumption. Knowing that the
Speaker 1: Earth is over seventy percent water is enough for me
Speaker 1: to know that the ocean is important, and I should
Speaker 1: get down to some nitty gritties. It sounds like we're
Speaker 1: going to focus a lot on what we want.
Speaker 2: To know, yes, because we don't know enough. And so
Speaker 2: one of the things that I want to know is
Speaker 2: how is the ocean affected by climate change. We know
Speaker 2: it is, Okay, I'm not saying that I don't know
Speaker 2: that it is. I'm saying, like, in what ways that
Speaker 2: you know we might be missing? Is it affected?
Speaker 3: Help us see our blind spots?
Speaker 2: Basically, yes, I want these blinders off.
Speaker 3: I want to see the whole thing.
Speaker 1: And if you know, people are always saying save the ocean,
Speaker 1: and if you save the ocean, you can save the Earth.
Speaker 1: I need you to draw a line between those dots.
Speaker 1: What exactly about saving the ocean helps me save the
Speaker 1: rest of the planet, right?
Speaker 3: I want to know that.
Speaker 2: And I want to know what are some of the
Speaker 2: misconceptions about the ocean, how it affects the world, the
Speaker 2: things that we can do. And I know that there
Speaker 2: are certain people that are disproportionately affected by climate change,
Speaker 2: and I would like to know how, why, and who
Speaker 2: those people are specifically.
Speaker 1: That's a lot to think about. I think we're ready
Speaker 1: to jump into the dissection.
Speaker 2: Our guest for today's lab is doctor Ayana Elizabeth Johnson.
Speaker 4: My name is doctor Ayana Elizabeth Johnson. I am a
Speaker 4: marine biologist and a climate policy nerd from Brooklyn, New York.
Speaker 2: She is the goat and she's trying to be modest.
Speaker 3: She's founder and CEO of Ocean Collective.
Speaker 2: Ocean Collective is a consulting firm for conservation solutions that
Speaker 2: are grounded in social justice.
Speaker 1: You can find doctor Johnson at the Nexus of all
Speaker 1: things science, policy and communication. She's always advocating for coastal
Speaker 1: communities and basically figuring out how to solve our climate crisis.
Speaker 2: And we're gonna talk about those solutions in a bit,
Speaker 2: but first, let's talk about the ocean. How does the
Speaker 2: ocean work with the rest of the planet.
Speaker 1: Let's hit some key points, right. I think you have
Speaker 1: to know these things to understand the gravity of why
Speaker 1: the ocean is so important. The scope of the ocean
Speaker 1: is huge.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: We tend to think about what's happening right at the
Speaker 1: shore and we think, oh, look there's a huge wave.
Speaker 1: No sea waves in the ocean can move at hundreds
Speaker 1: of miles per hour.
Speaker 2: And the ocean, because it's so vast, hasn't been explored
Speaker 2: as some other parts of our universe, like there are
Speaker 2: more extensive maps aps of Mars than our own ocean.
Speaker 2: So how does the ocean move? I think it's really
Speaker 2: useful to imagine the ocean as this huge pump, like
Speaker 2: this big physical pump that's just churning water all around
Speaker 2: the planet. So in the ocean, the ocean that's all
Speaker 2: over the planet, there are these things called gyres, and
Speaker 2: a gyre is any large system of circulating ocean currents,
Speaker 2: and the way that they're formed is by the Earth's
Speaker 2: wind patterns and by the forces that make the Earth rotate.
Speaker 2: So on our planet Earth, there are five major ocean gyers,
Speaker 2: the North Atlantic, South Atlantic, Indian, North Pacific, and South Pacific.
Speaker 2: And together these gyers circulate the ocean water all around
Speaker 2: the planet, and the ocean doesn't exist in a vacuum.
Speaker 2: The ocean and the climate are very intertwined.
Speaker 4: When we think about our climate system, it's the ocean
Speaker 4: actually plays a big role. It's not just the atmosphere.
Speaker 4: It's the interactions between the two.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: One of the things that's easy to forget is that
Speaker 1: we don't have some unlimited source of water. The water
Speaker 1: that's on this planet is all we have, and it's
Speaker 1: just constantly being recycled. So the water that rains down
Speaker 1: on us has been in the ocean many times before
Speaker 1: it's evaporated into our atmosphere. Then it's precipitated and it
Speaker 1: becomes snow or rain, and it's distributed over bodies of
Speaker 1: water or land, and when it's in land, it just
Speaker 1: you know, drains right back down our waterways and basins
Speaker 1: back into the ocean to complete that cycle all over again.
Speaker 1: The water molecules that make up the ocean are constantly
Speaker 1: interchanging with the water molecules that make up our atmosphere.
Speaker 4: So the temperature of the water means a lot for
Speaker 4: the temperature of the air and the weather where you are.
Speaker 1: The ocean has this amazing heat capacity, so it can
Speaker 1: absorb solar energy and then it can release it as heat,
Speaker 1: but it does that vary slowly. So the way I
Speaker 1: think about that is considering, you know, it's a hot
Speaker 1: it's a sunny, hot day, but when you get in
Speaker 1: the ocean.
Speaker 3: The water is still cold.
Speaker 1: Because the ocean has the ability to absorb way more
Speaker 1: heat than the atmosphere around it, right, and because it
Speaker 1: has that heat capacity, it doesn't rapidly heat up and
Speaker 1: rapidly drop in heat in temperature.
Speaker 2: Imagine if the heat the ocean can heat up as
Speaker 2: fast as the atmosphere, like the air around us.
Speaker 3: Oh, I don't want it. I don't want I.
Speaker 2: Don't want to be boiled like that. You're gonna sou
Speaker 2: vid yourself. So then my next question is how are
Speaker 2: the oceans affected by climate change?
Speaker 4: I'm so glad you asked, because most people don't think
Speaker 4: of the ocean as part of climate change, as part
Speaker 4: of the climate system.
Speaker 1: So t t's just explained about these gyres. We now
Speaker 1: understand how the temperature of the ocean is super important,
Speaker 1: and this is all such a delicate balance for how
Speaker 1: our planet keeps us alive. Any interruption or imbalance or
Speaker 1: skew in one direction of this balance is a problem,
Speaker 1: and today we're just going to touch on a couple
Speaker 1: of those examples. There are a few ways the ocean
Speaker 1: is affected, but it's all related to the increase of
Speaker 1: the ocean's temperature, and it's like a domino effect or
Speaker 1: a chain reaction that causes a lot of different issues.
Speaker 4: The heat of the water actually drives a lot of
Speaker 4: different things. So you have this cold, dense, salty water
Speaker 4: that then sinks and it drives this sort of conveyor
Speaker 4: belt in the North Atlantic. But if the water doesn't
Speaker 4: get cold enough in northern Europe. Then it doesn't sink
Speaker 4: as fast and sort of the current this conveyor belt
Speaker 4: is slowing down.
Speaker 2: When the ocean water gets warmer, it can cause a
Speaker 2: lot of problems.
Speaker 4: If the water's really warm. My favorite climate scientist, doctor
Speaker 4: Tate Marvel at NASA, she describes a warm ocean as
Speaker 4: hurricane food.
Speaker 1: The atmosphere is always holding water vapor, and that's just
Speaker 1: water in a gaseous state, but the atmosphere's ability to
Speaker 1: hold that vapor is related to temperature. Warm air can
Speaker 1: hold more water vapor than cold air can.
Speaker 2: If you think about the summertime and how we only
Speaker 2: talk about humidity in the summer. That's because warm air
Speaker 2: has the ability to trap those water molecules, and that's
Speaker 2: what humidity is. That's water in the air. But in
Speaker 2: the winter time we don't talk about that because cold
Speaker 2: air does not do that.
Speaker 1: And when you think about it that way, like you said,
Speaker 1: the warm air, when that ocean water is evaporating, it
Speaker 1: increases the temperature and humidity of the air around it.
Speaker 1: And that's how whenever they talk about hurricanes, they're always
Speaker 1: showing that you've never seen a hurricane generate overland.
Speaker 3: It comes from the ocean over where we live.
Speaker 4: Right hat this heat and more evaporation and stronger and
Speaker 4: wetter storms become even more dangerous, and that is also
Speaker 4: due to climate change.
Speaker 1: The next thing to understand about climate change affecting the
Speaker 1: ocean is how it changes the ocean's chemistry. We've all
Speaker 1: heard that the warming temperature of the planet is caused
Speaker 1: by greenhouse gases, but those gases are also being absorbed
Speaker 1: by the ocean, and so.
Speaker 4: We've actually changed the chemistry of seawater by burning all
Speaker 4: these fossil fuels, and that is bananas. The ocean is enormous,
Speaker 4: and we've changed the chemistry of the entire ocean.
Speaker 1: The ocean is a carbon sink. That means a place
Speaker 1: where the carbon can just go to basically just go away,
Speaker 1: right if you think about it. The carbon regenerate from
Speaker 1: activities like driving and flying and even exhaling, all that
Speaker 1: carbon has to go somewhere, and so the ocean just
Speaker 1: takes all that excess carbon and through a variety of processes,
Speaker 1: it basically traps it in its depths.
Speaker 2: But of course we've taken it too far. The Ocean
Speaker 2: Foundation says that we're exceeding the ocean's carbon sink capacity.
Speaker 2: So that's like if I let my friend borrow my
Speaker 2: car and I'm like, yeah, that's fine, you can go
Speaker 2: get groceries, and then I find out a week later
Speaker 2: they actually took a road trip across the country and
Speaker 2: now my car is broken down in California. That's too much.
Speaker 1: I'm not that friend, by the way, that's a different friend, right. Yes,
Speaker 1: why you're trying to tell me something.
Speaker 2: Well, we'll see.
Speaker 1: And the thing is all this excess carbon that we're generating.
Speaker 1: That's not the only thing the ocean is absorbing. It's
Speaker 1: also absorbing heat.
Speaker 4: And the ocean has also absorbed ninety percent of the
Speaker 4: heat that we've trapped. So the ocean is getting warmer.
Speaker 4: The sea water is, you know, a degree celsius or
Speaker 4: more warmer than it used to be in modern history.
Speaker 4: Warmer water holds less oxygen, and warmer water also stresses
Speaker 4: fish out, so they're like super stressed out and they
Speaker 4: can't get enough oxygen. And it's just a recipe for
Speaker 4: a disaster.
Speaker 2: You know, when you get in the shower and you
Speaker 2: turn around in that hot water touches your back. Oof,
Speaker 2: that's what we're doing to the fish.
Speaker 1: They are upset, just as upset as you'd be when
Speaker 1: you take that into account with like the heat capacity
Speaker 1: and how the ocean warms slowly.
Speaker 3: Even if we stop what we're.
Speaker 1: Doing right now, the ocean is going to continue to
Speaker 1: warm because of past things that we've done and because
Speaker 1: it has that heat capacity.
Speaker 3: It's just slow. So don't be like, oh, it doesn't
Speaker 3: feel to.
Speaker 2: Me exactly, because people will think a degree is not
Speaker 2: that big of a deal.
Speaker 1: They must not live with anyone else. If you haven't
Speaker 1: fought over seventy four versus seventy five degrees in the
Speaker 1: house date, you don't understand.
Speaker 3: I don't want to talk to you about the ocean exactly.
Speaker 2: Living in the middle of DC, it is a swamp
Speaker 2: here that air needs to be cutting on.
Speaker 1: And so these are all the ways that climate change
Speaker 1: is affecting the ocean.
Speaker 2: So if we go back to the metaphor like, oh,
Speaker 2: you let your friend borrow your car. But I'm a
Speaker 2: good friend. So if I'm the ocean, I'm a good friend,
Speaker 2: and I'm like, hey, I understand like you had places
Speaker 2: you felt like you had to go, I'll let you
Speaker 2: borrow my car again. That's the way the ocean is
Speaker 2: treating us. They are such a good friend that even
Speaker 2: after misusing them and mistreating them, they still going to
Speaker 2: try and help us out.
Speaker 4: There's all these ways the ocean's like out there trying
Speaker 4: to help us, and we just constantly ignore it.
Speaker 1: And it's not just the ocean, you know, when we
Speaker 1: think about all the places we want to go and
Speaker 1: all the greenhouse gases we continue to generate, the ocean's
Speaker 1: doing this job. So are our rivers and streams and
Speaker 1: salt marshes and mangroves. All those things absorb way more
Speaker 1: carbon than like no shade to the trees, But then
Speaker 1: the trees do, okay. So all those areas, those water
Speaker 1: rich areas, they absorb more carbon.
Speaker 2: And another thing that I think that no one really
Speaker 2: knows or thinks about, that we talked about with doctor Johnson.
Speaker 2: One of these things that is in the ocean that
Speaker 2: helps with purifying the water and keeping a record of history.
Speaker 2: Men's the kid's favorite late night treat.
Speaker 1: Ah oysters, if you've been out with me and there
Speaker 1: are bi valves on the menu, you already have heard
Speaker 1: this feel, you know, I like the little ecological history
Speaker 1: along with my horse bradish and oysters. Yes, And like
Speaker 1: you said, they're great storytellers. Like, if there's anything that's
Speaker 1: going to get you motivated, the thing that you're eating,
Speaker 1: do you love that?
Speaker 3: Well, what if it was no more?
Speaker 4: And there's finally some oysters are getting more respect as
Speaker 4: far as their role in filtering water.
Speaker 3: They are. They're really good, I.
Speaker 4: Fink filtering access nutrients and pollution out of water. And
Speaker 4: I'm actually on the board of the Billion Oyster Project
Speaker 4: in New York City. They're trying to replant a billion
Speaker 4: oysters in New York Harbor by twenty thirty five and
Speaker 4: involve a million school students in the process. But you know,
Speaker 4: they can't swim away, and they're really easy to catch
Speaker 4: and catch them all, so we basically ate them all.
Speaker 1: What people don't realize is that we're at an all
Speaker 1: time low for our oyster populations compared to the estimated
Speaker 1: levels in the early sixteen hundreds. We're at about one
Speaker 1: percent of the oyster population we used to have.
Speaker 2: So it was like, we don't have any oysters. That's
Speaker 2: what it feels like, you're saying.
Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying to you, friend. Oh, and this
Speaker 1: is why I didn't know it was so dire. And
Speaker 1: all this tells me is that you haven't been listening
Speaker 1: to me because I tell you this every time.
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, I'll just be trying to eat and enjoy
Speaker 2: my cocktail and my oysters.
Speaker 4: Oyster reefs can be an incredibly effective buffer from storms
Speaker 4: and waves because they just like they buffer that energy.
Speaker 4: They kind of like disperse all of that by creating
Speaker 4: all this friction that you know, breaks the power of
Speaker 4: the waves coming ashore. And so restoring oysters is actually
Speaker 4: a really important part of building resilience to climate change.
Speaker 4: So shout outs to oysters for being delicious and historical
Speaker 4: and saving us.
Speaker 2: The oysters are physicists. They're providing a great barrier between
Speaker 2: the ocean and our coastline. It's like putting in a
Speaker 2: like a permeable brick wall where some water will get through,
Speaker 2: but it slows it down because they're taking the brunt
Speaker 2: of the forest. Yes, so they're standing there like no
Speaker 2: limit soldiers and getting whipped up by this ocean and
Speaker 2: they're like, that's fine, thank you, sir.
Speaker 3: I have another man. I'm silk the Shaka oyster, which
Speaker 3: one of you.
Speaker 2: Definitely master p Mayer say nanah, no nah.
Speaker 1: Maybe I'll be Snoop Dogg when he was on no limit.
Speaker 1: If anybody mess with Snoop Doggie Dog, are.
Speaker 3: Y'all gonna save the oysters or what?
Speaker 2: We don't deserve them? We don't deserve these oysters. They
Speaker 2: deserve better.
Speaker 3: How are we gonna fix this?
Speaker 4: That's where my head is, that, like, how can we
Speaker 4: just make sure the ocean is a part of these solutions?
Speaker 4: And right now I'm really focused on how that would
Speaker 4: manifest in terms of policy change, And.
Speaker 2: We're gonna talk more about those policy changes coming right
Speaker 2: after the break.
Speaker 1: Now it's time to put on our myth busting hats
Speaker 1: and talk about some common misconceptions when it comes to
Speaker 1: the ocean and climate chain.
Speaker 2: The first misconception is about who is the most concerned
Speaker 2: about our changing planet.
Speaker 4: We are taught this myth that white people care more
Speaker 4: about nature, care more about climate. It's like the rugged, outdoorsy,
Speaker 4: wilderness Patagonia clad prius driving dudes who are like they're
Speaker 4: going to save the planet. And it's actually more likely
Speaker 4: that a Latina grandma in Arizona cares about the climate
Speaker 4: than a college student in Massachusetts. Like that's how the
Speaker 4: polling plays out.
Speaker 1: And I've wondered, I'm like, is it the outdoorsy influencers
Speaker 1: that are making us think this? Is it the YouTube
Speaker 1: videos about camping that make you think the like, this
Speaker 1: is the profile of a person who cares.
Speaker 2: Probably, I think that's I think it's all the marketing
Speaker 2: of all of these outdoors companies as well, where I mean,
Speaker 2: everybody in all of their ads are white, and they
Speaker 2: don't show that black and brown people are also doing
Speaker 2: things within their community. They might not necessarily be hiking,
Speaker 2: because you know, they might not have the privilege of
Speaker 2: having that kind of time to just say I'm going
Speaker 2: to spend time walking through the woods and things like that,
Speaker 2: but they're doing things within their community to impact climate change.
Speaker 1: If you would have asked me a long time ago
Speaker 1: as a kid, was I an outdoors person?
Speaker 3: I would say absolutely. I used to catch lightning bugs.
Speaker 1: We used to go exploring in the woods and stuff,
Speaker 1: and my grandma would say, hey, back in the yard.
Speaker 3: You know, we would go. Who would push it?
Speaker 1: Me and all of my cousins, And I think as
Speaker 1: I got around high school, I was like, oh, I
Speaker 1: remember there was one episode of the Simpsons.
Speaker 3: I know this sounds so crazy.
Speaker 1: Do you remember this episode of the Simpsons where Lisa
Speaker 1: is like meeting up with this activist environmental group, this
Speaker 1: environmental activist group, and they're like in the tree, like
Speaker 1: they're in this tree so it doesn't get cut down.
Speaker 1: And I was like, no, this is an outdoors person.
Speaker 1: This is a person who cares about the planet. They
Speaker 1: were sandals and socks and they have a T shirts
Speaker 1: with a tree on it or the globe outs bark right,
Speaker 1: and you begin to think, this is what an outdoors
Speaker 1: person is. This is what a person looks like when
Speaker 1: that cares about the planet. And that's not necessarily the case.
Speaker 1: There's a thousand ways to care about the planet and
Speaker 1: to make change.
Speaker 2: I actually have a friend that started a group called
Speaker 2: the Black Outdoors, and it just highlights so many people
Speaker 2: of color that are getting out hiking, traveling, and doing
Speaker 2: all of these really amazing things to help impact climate
Speaker 2: change and also show that people of color are also
Speaker 2: a part of that community.
Speaker 3: I just went to the website. I'm all into it.
Speaker 2: It's a shame that we aren't included in these conversations
Speaker 2: because I know Zakey and I we really enjoy being
Speaker 2: outside and hiking and biking and doing all these things
Speaker 2: like that me and my husband did one hundred and
Speaker 2: ten mile hike for our honeymoon. Honeymoon that don't the
Speaker 2: honey to me, parts of it was not. But yeah,
Speaker 2: these are things that we like to do. But you know,
Speaker 2: we are constantly excluded from the conversation. Yeah, but what
Speaker 2: we know to be fact is that it's not the
Speaker 2: stereotypical person that you think wants to save the earth
Speaker 2: that is actually saving the earth.
Speaker 1: Doctor Johnson told us about a recent study from Yale
Speaker 1: and George Mason Universities that highlights exactly that.
Speaker 4: It's forty nine percent of white people are concerned about
Speaker 4: climate change, fifty seven percent of black people, and sixty
Speaker 4: nine percent of Latin X people. This is a survey
Speaker 4: from Yale and George Mason Universities. They've been tracking this
Speaker 4: stuff for over a decade.
Speaker 2: Not only are people of color more concerned about the planet,
Speaker 2: but doctor Johnson says that they're also more likely to
Speaker 2: get involved.
Speaker 4: And there's also sort of double the likelihood of wanting
Speaker 4: to get involved in campaigns to solve these problems. And
Speaker 4: there's and and people of color are half as likely
Speaker 4: to be climate deniers.
Speaker 1: And the next myth is about who is most affected
Speaker 1: by climate change. Too many people are thinking of this
Speaker 1: as a far away problem in these other countries really
Speaker 1: affecting this all.
Speaker 4: In the US in particular, we've had many people have
Speaker 4: enough resources and protection that they're buffered from the worst
Speaker 4: of the impacts. And journalism had for a long time
Speaker 4: been telling this story about climate change is something that
Speaker 4: is going to affect like poor brown people in other countries,
Speaker 4: whereas like, we know it's hitting here. It's the floods
Speaker 4: in the Midwest, the record floods, it's the record fires
Speaker 4: in California. It's the record storms in the Southeast. It's
Speaker 4: the droughts. It's all of that is hitting us right now.
Speaker 4: And I think we're at it. We've finally reached the
Speaker 4: tipping point where the majority of Americans are like, oh shit,
Speaker 4: like this is real. It's coming for all of us,
Speaker 4: Like it's coming for poor people and people of color first,
Speaker 4: but it's coming for all of us.
Speaker 1: And I think we've seen that as part of the
Speaker 1: behavior in the US, like if something isn't affecting us
Speaker 1: right where you can see it in front of your face.
Speaker 1: You feel like it's not important. We saw this with
Speaker 1: coronavirus when it was happening in China, we said, oh,
Speaker 1: it's not effect yes.
Speaker 2: And even current even when it's happening here in the
Speaker 2: United States.
Speaker 1: When it happened in New York and DC and in California,
Speaker 1: people in other states say, oh, that's a problem. They're
Speaker 1: not here, We're not worried. And now we see those
Speaker 1: other states having these numbers surge. Right if you're going
Speaker 1: to wait until the fire or in this case, the
Speaker 1: shoreline is at your back door.
Speaker 2: It's going to be too late. And for some people,
Speaker 2: this is not something that is in their distant future.
Speaker 2: This is something that is happening right now.
Speaker 4: Vulnerability to the climate crisis is just another manifestation of
Speaker 4: white supremacy in a lot of ways, like where people
Speaker 4: live is a function of history, what resources they have
Speaker 4: is a function of history. Whether the government jumps in
Speaker 4: to support you after a disaster is a function of
Speaker 4: a racist past and present. So in this moment of reckoning,
Speaker 4: and it's been really good to see people try to
Speaker 4: muddle through that figure out how to be on the
Speaker 4: right side of history and connect the dots because like,
Speaker 4: we just can't solve the climate crisis without people of color,
Speaker 4: but we could honestly probably solve it without racists. So
Speaker 4: choose your side, right.
Speaker 2: The third myth is that climate change is a coastal issue,
Speaker 2: but it's just as important for people in the landlocked areas.
Speaker 4: So, yeah, there's all these connections, and the way that
Speaker 4: we do agriculture is actually super bad for the ocean.
Speaker 4: All of this like growing animals and high density, and
Speaker 4: then you have these like ponds of pig manure that
Speaker 4: are like leeching out to sea, and all the fertilizers
Speaker 4: and all the lawns fertilizers and all the big industrial
Speaker 4: farms and all of that goes downstream through rivers to
Speaker 4: the sea and causes these dead zones and anoxic zones
Speaker 4: and really pollutes the ocean. So when people, you know,
Speaker 4: in the Midwest or in the middle of the country
Speaker 4: are like, the ocean's not my issue, I'm like, well,
Speaker 4: what we do in the middle affects the coast and
Speaker 4: vice versa. So it's so important that that people connect
Speaker 4: those stops.
Speaker 2: So if you're listening to this episode and you're in
Speaker 2: the Midwest and you feel like, Hey, I mean, there
Speaker 2: are no oceans near me. This has nothing to do
Speaker 2: with me. This does not affect me. I do not
Speaker 2: affect it.
Speaker 3: That's not true.
Speaker 2: The ocean affects all of us, as we talked about
Speaker 2: earlier on in the episode, and it definitely affects the
Speaker 2: Midwest in Midwest agriculture.
Speaker 4: There's a whole sort of anthropology and historical ecology around
Speaker 4: sort of how much things have shifted, and this idea
Speaker 4: of shifted baselines, it means that every generation has just
Speaker 4: lowered expectations for nature, and that that is actually really
Speaker 4: damaging because when we try to do conservation or restoration,
Speaker 4: we're actually is just not ambitious enough. We just don't
Speaker 4: even understand how like diverse and resplendent and abundant should be.
Speaker 2: And that goes back to pretty much everything that we've
Speaker 2: been talking about the oysters.
Speaker 1: Our expectations are so low because at each generation we're
Speaker 1: just tearing stuff up. You never knew how clean the
Speaker 1: room could get. We never knew it, We've never seen it.
Speaker 2: We really have to start being better and doing better
Speaker 2: and expecting more for our environment.
Speaker 1: So now you should be fired up just like us. Yes,
Speaker 1: and if you have all this information. Now you know
Speaker 1: about climate change, you know its effects on the ocean,
Speaker 1: you know who was affected. You know that who cares
Speaker 1: about climate change, and that it could be you. The
Speaker 1: question is now, what will.
Speaker 2: You do right? This is an all hands on deck situation.
Speaker 2: Everyone has to play a part.
Speaker 4: One of the things I really care about is making
Speaker 4: everyone feel welcome in the climate movement. In environmental work,
Speaker 4: there are so many solutions, there are so many different
Speaker 4: ways to participate, So I just really want to encourage
Speaker 4: people to think about how they can be a part
Speaker 4: of the solutions that we need.
Speaker 2: We can't just say we're going to focus on this
Speaker 2: one thing and do this one thing and if that
Speaker 2: doesn't work, then we'll move on to the next thing.
Speaker 2: We need to be doing all of these things all
Speaker 2: at the same time. It sounds like a lot, but
Speaker 2: for real, when you think about it, it's not. And
Speaker 2: part of this includes our government. Policy is so important,
Speaker 2: and doctor Johnson says the good news is that when
Speaker 2: it comes to climate change, there are some things that
Speaker 2: Congress can't agree on.
Speaker 4: That topic like should we or should we not have
Speaker 4: heaps of plastic in the ocean is one of the
Speaker 4: few environmental issues that hasn't been politicized like Republicans Democrats,
Speaker 4: Like no one wants trash on the beach, No one
Speaker 4: wants all this stuff in the ocean, No one wants
Speaker 4: plastic in their seafoods. So there's actually a real opportunity
Speaker 4: for bipartisanship on this issue of plastic pollution, and we
Speaker 4: should absolutely lean into that and take advantage of it.
Speaker 1: And one of those ways to take advantage of this
Speaker 1: is to educate ourselves about the different policies and plans
Speaker 1: to tackle climate change.
Speaker 3: One of them is the Green New Deal. You may
Speaker 3: have heard of it.
Speaker 4: First, I would like to encourage all of your wonderful
Speaker 4: listeners to read the Green New Deal to either of
Speaker 4: you know how long the Green New Deal is?
Speaker 3: No, we didn't do y'all know.
Speaker 2: Pause it right now and think about it. Okay, you're back.
Speaker 2: You don't know.
Speaker 4: It is fourteen pages, double spaced, massive font. It'll take
Speaker 4: you like five minutes to read it. This is the
Speaker 4: big secret. Everyone thinks it's like hundreds of hundreds of pages.
Speaker 4: I could never read it. I could never understand it. Like, everyone,
Speaker 4: go read it. We can then have an informed discussion
Speaker 4: about what this should look like. So the Green New
Speaker 4: Deal is a it's a congressional resolution. It's not a policy,
Speaker 4: it's not an act. It is a vision statement. And
Speaker 4: it was introduced in the House by Representative Ocasio Cortes
Speaker 4: and in the Senate by Ed Marky, who's been a
Speaker 4: champion of climate issues for decades, so that they introduced
Speaker 4: it in both chambers of Congress together, and it's this
Speaker 4: vision statement for how we as a nation at a
Speaker 4: federal level should address the climate crisis. But this I
Speaker 4: read word for word several times, and the first time
Speaker 4: I read it, I got to page ten and I
Speaker 4: saw the first mention of the ocean in a list
Speaker 4: of like things we should protect include blah blah blah
Speaker 4: blah blah ocean, And I was like, that's all we get.
Speaker 4: You guys were going to lose if we don't include
Speaker 4: the ocean as a core part of our climate solutions,
Speaker 4: Like we're just not going to get there.
Speaker 2: And that wasn't good enough for doctor Johnson, so she
Speaker 2: got together with some other climate experts that specialize in
Speaker 2: the ocean and they decided to draft up their vision
Speaker 2: for climate change that includes the ocean.
Speaker 4: The three of us got together and wrote in a
Speaker 4: bed called the Big Blue Gap in the Green New Deal,
Speaker 4: and we're just like, y'all, you're missing it. Here's what
Speaker 4: we think needs to be included. And so that's what
Speaker 4: sort of started these discussions about a BLA New Deal
Speaker 4: and what that would look like. And the idea is
Speaker 4: that this is a supplement to the Green New Deal,
Speaker 4: like we just want to make sure the ocean is included.
Speaker 4: This is not a competing proposal, this is a you know,
Speaker 4: an addition.
Speaker 1: I'm so grateful for the people like doctor Johnson doing
Speaker 1: this type of work right informing folks. You know, I
Speaker 1: think she makes some really good points just to help
Speaker 1: us get through some misconceptions, just for us to see
Speaker 1: how connected all of these systems are.
Speaker 2: And it's just like with other things, once we get
Speaker 2: past the first initial barriers that are very kind of
Speaker 2: basic in our understanding of why the ocean is so important,
Speaker 2: then we can really get to work.
Speaker 1: You know what t t Even after that thing came
Speaker 1: out for LA, I thought, I consider myself.
Speaker 3: I said, hey, I'm a scientist.
Speaker 1: There are certain facts I know, you know, but I
Speaker 1: drive to work and it's too far to bike it's
Speaker 1: too far to walk, But since I've been biking.
Speaker 3: Girl, no it's not too far.
Speaker 1: And when I realized in July that I hadn't gotten
Speaker 1: any gas since March, and I was like, I don't
Speaker 1: need to be so dependent on fossil fuels. There were
Speaker 1: just so many little small things that I could see.
Speaker 1: I'll give you another example. Since I've been home, I'm
Speaker 1: not eating out right, I haven't been kind of ordering
Speaker 1: things in. But what I've been noticing is the amount
Speaker 1: of waste that I generate. So like I'm taking the
Speaker 1: trash out and I'm looking like, did I make these
Speaker 1: three bags of trash that are gonna go there?
Speaker 3: Which has led me to come in a week in
Speaker 3: a week.
Speaker 2: That was something that I noticed about myself too, like
Speaker 2: I use a lot of paper towels. Oh, I use
Speaker 2: a lot of paper towels and napkins, Like it was
Speaker 2: something that I knew about myself, Like when I would
Speaker 2: go out to restaurants, I'd be like, yeah, I'm always
Speaker 2: asking for more napkins and things like that, But then
Speaker 2: being at home and realizing how many paper towels I
Speaker 2: used for like for everything, even if it's just like, oh,
Speaker 2: I need to. Oh, I splash some water on the
Speaker 2: on the counter. I'll get a paper towel to wipe
Speaker 2: it up. Like why when I could use like a
Speaker 2: dish towel. Yes, And so I was creating a lot
Speaker 2: of waste. So now I'm a lot more of it
Speaker 2: and trying not to do that anymore.
Speaker 1: And with anything where you see a little room for improvement,
Speaker 1: you know, it just makes you think what else?
Speaker 3: Who's next? You know, what's next? What else can I do?
Speaker 1: And so I can't wait to talk about some more
Speaker 1: solutions now that I've seen how easy it is to
Speaker 1: be an advocate of Earth in general.
Speaker 2: Yeah, little steps, little things done by a lot of
Speaker 2: people can make huge impact.
Speaker 1: Yes, what are the little steps for you? They might
Speaker 1: not be the same as for me, But there are
Speaker 1: so many steps. There are so many we could take.
Speaker 2: That's it for Lab twenty eight, but we have so
Speaker 2: much more for you to dig into on our website,
Speaker 2: so head over to Dope Labs podcast dot com.
Speaker 1: On our website you can find a cheat sheep for
Speaker 1: today's lab, along with a ton of other links and
Speaker 1: resources in the show.
Speaker 2: Note and if you want to stay in the know
Speaker 2: with Dope Labs. Don't forget to sign up for our
Speaker 2: newsletter on our site too.
Speaker 1: Special thanks to our guest expert, doctor Ayana Elizabeth Johnson.
Speaker 1: She's co hosting a brand new podcast called How to
Speaker 1: Save a Planet, and that comes out on August twentieth,
Speaker 1: so be sure to listen.
Speaker 3: Also, we love.
Speaker 1: Hearing from you. What did you think about today's lab?
Speaker 1: Do you have ideas for future labs? Call us at
Speaker 1: two zero two five six seven seven zero two eight
Speaker 1: and let us know.
Speaker 2: You can find us on Twitter and Instagram at Dope Labs.
Speaker 1: Podcast tt is on Twitter at dr Underscore Tsho.
Speaker 2: And you can find Zakiya at z Said.
Speaker 1: So follow us on Spotify or wherever else you listen
Speaker 1: to podcasts.
Speaker 2: Dope Blabs is produced by Jenny Raydalt Mass of WaveRunner Studios.
Speaker 3: Mixing and sound design are by Hannes Brown.
Speaker 2: Our theme music is by Taka Yasuzawa and Alex Sugiura,
Speaker 2: with additional music by Elijah Alex Harvey. Dope Labs is
Speaker 2: a production of Spotify and Mega Own.
Speaker 1: Media Group, and it's executive produced by us T T
Speaker 1: show Dia and Zakiah Wattley. But it seems like There's
Speaker 1: something about returning to the water, like the ocean, that.
Speaker 2: Just feels like Oh, like Mahanna said, who's it Moana?
Speaker 5: Oh?
Speaker 3: Molana? Yes, I was like who.
Speaker 2: And here's a preview of doctor Johnson's upcoming podcast, How
Speaker 2: to Save a Planet?
Speaker 4: How screwed are We?
Speaker 5: How screwed are we?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 4: How screwed are we?
Speaker 6: WHOA?
Speaker 4: How screwed are we? I'm Iyana Elizabeth Johnson. And when
Speaker 4: people find out that I'm a climate expert, this is
Speaker 4: their question.
Speaker 5: I don't get asked that question. My name's Alex Bloomberg.
Speaker 5: I make podcasts for a living, but I ask it
Speaker 5: a lot when it comes to the climate and Aana. Lately,
Speaker 5: we've been asking other.
Speaker 7: People this question.
Speaker 4: Turns out, the answer kind of depends on us.
Speaker 5: Doctor Kate Marvel.
Speaker 7: How screwed are we?
Speaker 8: We can choose to be completely screwed if we want to,
Speaker 8: but we also have the ability to limit the damage,
Speaker 8: so we can choose whether we're screwed.
Speaker 4: We're on team let's not screw ourselves.
Speaker 5: Exactly, and that is why we're launching this podcast, How
Speaker 5: to Save.
Speaker 4: A Planet, a podcast that'll answer the following questions, What
Speaker 4: are the key things we need to do to deal
Speaker 4: with climate change, and how do we make those things happen.
Speaker 5: We'll be talking to lots of people about the answers
Speaker 5: to those questions, people working on climate solutions who never
Speaker 5: imagine themselves doing this kind of work.
Speaker 6: I remember being called an environmentalist and I was like,
Speaker 6: I'm not an environmentalist. I'm gonna buy you girl, you know.
Speaker 6: And they're like, well, you want us to do something
Speaker 6: about the trees, and I'm like, everybody around here wants
Speaker 6: you to do something about the trees.
Speaker 3: I'm just a tree hugger.
Speaker 6: I'm just being.
Speaker 3: Metaphorically hugged tree.
Speaker 5: We'll talk to experts about the solutions to climate change
Speaker 5: that are already underway right now.
Speaker 7: We're at the beginning of this huge boom of offshore
Speaker 7: win the United States, and we're going to see hundreds
Speaker 7: and thousands of offshore turbines deployed off the Atlantic seaboard
Speaker 7: over the next decade.
Speaker 4: And we'll look at how much better things will be
Speaker 4: if we actually just deal with climate change and get
Speaker 4: this transformation right. The move away from fossil fuels is
Speaker 4: not going to be impossible.
Speaker 2: It's not going to turn our lights off.
Speaker 3: The move to a zero common future.
Speaker 2: Is not just possible, but it's better.
Speaker 5: On this podcast, we're going to be figuring out how
Speaker 5: we build that better future together, one episode at a time.
Speaker 4: How to Save a Planet from Gimmick goes live on August.
Speaker 5: Twentieth with me Alex Bloomberg.
Speaker 4: And me doctor Ayana Elizabeth Johnson.
Speaker 5: Please follow and listen for free on Spotify.
Speaker 4: Because Earthlings, We've got work to do.