Speaker 1: Hey, so a little We're gonna be in Brooklyn August.
Speaker 1: I'm so excited about this, man, check us out. The
Speaker 1: first Black Effect Podcast Festival was happening Sunday August in Brooklyn.
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Speaker 1: this moments gonna be there. Get six today Black Effect
Speaker 1: dot Com Forward Slash Podcast Festival. I'm Little Lucas Mrs
Speaker 1: Black Tech, Green Money. I'm gonna answer to some of
Speaker 1: the biggest names, some of the brightest minds and brilliant ideas.
Speaker 1: I feel black in building are simply using tech to
Speaker 1: secure your bag. This podcast is for you. Ki bous
Speaker 1: And investor, founder, and entrepreneur who serves his partner of
Speaker 1: Course i VC, which focuses on sports, gaming and fitness verticals.
Speaker 1: I asked about the differences between sports of yesteryear and
Speaker 1: the sports of today and why the sports is today
Speaker 1: is right for innovation in ways it's never been before,
Speaker 1: and how that opportunity creates a lane for people like
Speaker 1: me and you to capitalize. Sports used to be a
Speaker 1: game and now it's culture. When you look at you
Speaker 1: know what's going on with CAP what you see in
Speaker 1: the English Premier League, UM, where players are taking a
Speaker 1: knee before every game. UM. When you think about the
Speaker 1: power of sports in society, it's one of the things
Speaker 1: that can bring us together. It's one of the things
Speaker 1: that divides us. Sports and sports figures, athletes. You see
Speaker 1: it today in social media, their influences outside and you
Speaker 1: know the shut up and dribble, you know, conversation and
Speaker 1: that had that happened. You know, we're talking about individuals
Speaker 1: who are transforming society at a faster pace, I would
Speaker 1: argue than politicians are because they're at the forefront of
Speaker 1: the discussion every day. And so when we think about
Speaker 1: sports and investing in sports, a lot of people put
Speaker 1: us in a bubble of sports, technology and fitness and
Speaker 1: what goes on. But I think you cannot invest in
Speaker 1: sports and be blind to the fact that we are
Speaker 1: talking about cultural movements that are happening within this space. UM.
Speaker 1: And that's been true for years right, Um, ever since
Speaker 1: the raised fist that the Berlin Olympics when Hitler refused
Speaker 1: to shake hands like these literally on a podium, right,
Speaker 1: you know, this is this is where we are as
Speaker 1: a society. And with the amplification of the voices through
Speaker 1: social media, UM, you know you're seeing sports really playing
Speaker 1: a huge part of culture, not only in the U. S.
Speaker 1: BU globe. And I remember Canna um delaying Partnell, who
Speaker 1: you know is one of the biggest um E sports
Speaker 1: gaming companies around right now, growing really fastest from play
Speaker 1: Versus and I remember him saying that historically for a
Speaker 1: kid to get a varsity letter, they had to be fit,
Speaker 1: they had to run fast, they had to hit hard.
Speaker 1: And now you can be a great gamer and when
Speaker 1: a state trophy because of companies like play versus UM
Speaker 1: And I maybe it was Mark Injuries and who said
Speaker 1: this next thing, but he said something about like how
Speaker 1: when the user interfaces become very mature, that's when they
Speaker 1: get massive. That's when technology gets mass adoption. When you know,
Speaker 1: when user interfaces are difficult, people don't grasp onto it.
Speaker 1: But when the user interfaces fluent, um, more people can
Speaker 1: use it because it's easier to use. Um, I'm still
Speaker 1: not sure and maybe I'm wrong. I'm still not sure
Speaker 1: we've seen mass adoption with regards to gaming yet as
Speaker 1: an industry, and I could be wrong. Um, but what
Speaker 1: would in the position I come from, what will it
Speaker 1: take to get more parents to see past the idea
Speaker 1: that little Billy isn't just playing games, but he is
Speaker 1: playing games. But there's a large opportunity there. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think the most powerful thing that Mark Andrew has
Speaker 1: never said in my perspective, and software is eating the
Speaker 1: world right. And I think today I would argue that
Speaker 1: gamings eating the world right. He just took the board
Speaker 1: seated Acti Infinity. Um. Acti Infinity is a game where
Speaker 1: you can play to earn real money in the game. Um,
Speaker 1: they're creating a massive economy. The economy will be larger
Speaker 1: than some countries. Some people are putting their jobs just
Speaker 1: to play this game all day, right, And so I
Speaker 1: think the way that we view gaming is transformative in
Speaker 1: terms of and I wrote a long blog host about this,
Speaker 1: but the next big social network, the next big Facebook
Speaker 1: that we think of today and TikTok is going to
Speaker 1: be in a game that that's already happening right fortnite.
Speaker 1: Kids growing up today are their first social experiences in roadblocks, right,
Speaker 1: That's how they're meeting people. This is their social network.
Speaker 1: Tweet it was roadblocks is their LinkedIn. That's that's where
Speaker 1: you go. Right. And so when I think about generational change, right,
Speaker 1: so I'm forty two, when I you know, my parents
Speaker 1: idea of playing games was going to an arcade, It's like,
Speaker 1: this is what you do on a Friday night at
Speaker 1: nine o'clock and somebody when you play arcade game and
Speaker 1: you know, the Chucky Cheese era, right coming up, Like
Speaker 1: this is a family entertainment experience. You go to do
Speaker 1: it if you just look at the our generation. I
Speaker 1: was part of the console generation, right, so Super Nintendo
Speaker 1: and yes you know, and then you've got report you
Speaker 1: know your game boys, right, um, and today I argue
Speaker 1: that everybody is carrying a console in their pocket. Right.
Speaker 1: In mobile gaming now globally seventy billion dollar a year industry. Right,
Speaker 1: gaming is a hundred and sixty billion dollar a year
Speaker 1: industry annually. So you can take the box office music
Speaker 1: sales in television without the streaming services, and it doesn't
Speaker 1: add up to that that total TAM. And the misconception
Speaker 1: is that you know, you can ask somebody, you know,
Speaker 1: particularly you ask a middle aged man, old woman, are
Speaker 1: you a gamer? They say no, Well do you play
Speaker 1: games on your phone? Yes? What do you play? I
Speaker 1: play golf clash, I play words with friends. I only
Speaker 1: play a little bit, you know, during launch and then
Speaker 1: after where I'm going to commute home. And I'm like,
Speaker 1: you played thirty minutes of games a day, but you
Speaker 1: don't consider yourself a gamer? Right, So you know, you're
Speaker 1: seeing the acceptance of my generation that grew up with
Speaker 1: consoles now saying well, gaming is not actually bad, Like
Speaker 1: it didn't lead to the detrimental things that people thought
Speaker 1: it would, right, you know, the early days of g
Speaker 1: t A, the early days of first person in shooters.
Speaker 1: It's it's just not. The stigma associated with it is
Speaker 1: still there. But the industry is massive, and I think
Speaker 1: that we've seen a generational change of people who grew
Speaker 1: up playing games in a home, and now we're starting
Speaker 1: to see people play games anywhere. Right, And that's why
Speaker 1: you see the growth and mobile. Mobile will surpass the
Speaker 1: total revenue generated in gaming, then console and PC combined
Speaker 1: next year, um and that you know, when we have
Speaker 1: an investment in India, very little console penetration, everybody's playing
Speaker 1: mobile games. India's by far the world's largest gaming market
Speaker 1: with the exception of China, and if you look at
Speaker 1: the numbers in the sheer amount and it will surpass
Speaker 1: China given the recent regulatory changes that have gone in
Speaker 1: limiting the amount of time kids can play games. So,
Speaker 1: you know, I think we're in a moment in time
Speaker 1: where we talk about them Ataverse, we talk about the
Speaker 1: Pokemon Goes, you talk about roadblocks, you talk about Fortnite,
Speaker 1: that this is the way people are going to socialize,
Speaker 1: and this is a game we were a digital native generation.
Speaker 1: This is a game native generation. Interesting so particular to
Speaker 1: let the things that we talked about with the roadblocks
Speaker 1: and Fortnite. You know, I have little kids and for them,
Speaker 1: you know, they think nothing about spending real dollars to
Speaker 1: have dollars in the game, right, And I wonder what
Speaker 1: your perspective is on how they will grow up, you know,
Speaker 1: being let's say sub twelve, sub twelve years old. And
Speaker 1: I don't know if you have kids or not, but
Speaker 1: like you, you study this, so how how will they
Speaker 1: grow up in a world how were they're they're thinking
Speaker 1: be structured around value? So is me having a whole
Speaker 1: twelve football ten ft high full of sneakers and boxes
Speaker 1: of you know old Jordan's. They will have a virtual
Speaker 1: world of you know, digital chatch keys, like you know
Speaker 1: gyms that they got in two thousand twenty. You know,
Speaker 1: it's like, how how will they think about these things? Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a great question. And so we're investors in stock
Speaker 1: ax out of fun one. Right, And if you're a
Speaker 1: sneaker head, you've got kicks, you've been on Goat, you've
Speaker 1: been on stock X. You don't see your sneakers as
Speaker 1: a utility, right, you see them as a luxury iity um.
Speaker 1: And what we saw in this last ten years of
Speaker 1: innovation internet space, particularly around a gig economy in ownership,
Speaker 1: like the fact that you would say, yeah, I'm just
Speaker 1: gonna put my crib on Airbnb. Like people were crazy
Speaker 1: when the airbnb came out. People are like, are you insane?
Speaker 1: You're gonna stay at strangers? You're gonna let somebody stay
Speaker 1: in your crib? Like, Nah, that's not possible, that's not
Speaker 1: gonna happen. Right, And now it's like I'd rather stay
Speaker 1: at an Airbnb in a hotel, right, And so the
Speaker 1: idea of ownership is changing rapidly in our society. And
Speaker 1: again I go back, it's generational change. What was cool
Speaker 1: for my parents generation was a Ford Mustang, a muscle car,
Speaker 1: like that was who you were and that representative piece
Speaker 1: of your identity. This generation grew up and was like,
Speaker 1: who cares about a car. I can take an Uber anywhere.
Speaker 1: It's gonna cost me less. I don't have to worry
Speaker 1: about maintenance and parking and alternate side. I'll just take
Speaker 1: Ubers everywhere and it's gonna cost me less on a
Speaker 1: monthly basis. So this leads us to a game native generation.
Speaker 1: So Fortnite generates two point one two point three billion
Speaker 1: dollars a year selling skins. That's it, that's their business model.
Speaker 1: Why because if you buy an NFL jersey or you
Speaker 1: buy a Marvel character jersey to skin your character in
Speaker 1: the game, that's the representation to your peer group, no
Speaker 1: different than owning that Mustang or having a pair of
Speaker 1: Yeezys or having a skin in Fortnae. So when people
Speaker 1: talk about, oh, I'm believing n f T s, this
Speaker 1: stuff is fleeting. I'm like, you're not in touch with reality.
Speaker 1: You don't understand how you view digital assets. You might
Speaker 1: have dope artwork on your wall. Well guess what I
Speaker 1: got an n f T in my virtual world. It's
Speaker 1: no different. It's the exact same thing. It represents who
Speaker 1: you are, it's part of your identity. And so you know,
Speaker 1: we're very bullish on the n f T space, and
Speaker 1: I think even more so. Digital has this unique opportunity
Speaker 1: that we're going to see emerge in fractional ownership. So
Speaker 1: in the same way we had a gig economy, and
Speaker 1: the same way you treated an asset and you're willing
Speaker 1: to sell it or lease it, digital opens up completely
Speaker 1: new opportunities. And so when you talk about n f T,
Speaker 1: s oh, I created an original piece of art as
Speaker 1: an artist, I'm not but to say I did, and
Speaker 1: I sell that and now it gets resold for ten
Speaker 1: X because there's a smart contract associated with it. I
Speaker 1: get a portion of that used that that secondary transaction
Speaker 1: or the third flip of that item as it goes
Speaker 1: up over time. So it unlocks additional value the same
Speaker 1: way stock x unlocks value, which is you can buy
Speaker 1: a pair of kicks, hold them, flip them, and you're
Speaker 1: gonna get the proceeds. Now, the artist, the creator, whoever
Speaker 1: it is, can actually you know, accrue that value. And
Speaker 1: I think that's gonna be something lasting in the ecosystem
Speaker 1: that really changes the way, you know, art and assets
Speaker 1: are monetized over time, and so we're very bullish on
Speaker 1: you know, digital art. You know what n f T
Speaker 1: s mean, digital ownership over time because again, it is
Speaker 1: just an item you own that represents your identity. Just
Speaker 1: because it's in the virtual world, it doesn't mean it's
Speaker 1: any less or more so than the artwork or the
Speaker 1: kicks that you wear. When you you specifically are looking
Speaker 1: to invest in gaming, is it game developers you're particularly
Speaker 1: looking for? Is it e sports platforms? Is it leads
Speaker 1: that you're interested in, Like what's interesting to you that's
Speaker 1: happening in the space. Yeah, we have a very diversified
Speaker 1: approach to gaming because I think you know, people tend
Speaker 1: to lump gaming into here's the studio creating a game, right,
Speaker 1: and we do that. We we we certainly invested in um,
Speaker 1: you know a handful of studios. UM. We love the
Speaker 1: idea that you know, to me, gaming is not that
Speaker 1: different than somebody who's creating an album or a movie. Right,
Speaker 1: You're creating a new piece of work. You're putting your
Speaker 1: heart and soul in it, and you hope somebody loves it, right,
Speaker 1: And it's a creative endeavor. And so you know, from
Speaker 1: our perspective, that's where most of the money in the
Speaker 1: ecosystem flows today. So we'll continue to make investments in
Speaker 1: that space. Um. We tend to put the second bucket
Speaker 1: as what are we investing in terms of social and community.
Speaker 1: The sports is part of that. Right. When you look
Speaker 1: at one of our early investments, we were early investors
Speaker 1: in hundred Thieves. Um, they're any sports team, but they're
Speaker 1: really a lifestyle brand, right you you you see they're
Speaker 1: making money not only from competing, but they're making money
Speaker 1: from march right, from content. Um, it's an entertainment in
Speaker 1: a brand business. Um. And so you know, we'll invest
Speaker 1: in the sports. We invest in a lot of real
Speaker 1: money gaming. So you know, there's a lot of regulatory
Speaker 1: change going on in the ecosystem across the US to
Speaker 1: allow legalized gambling. Um. You know, we play it that.
Speaker 1: It's the intersection of sports and gaming, right, It's what
Speaker 1: keeps people engaged in the game. Where you might be
Speaker 1: watching a three and a half hour game, there's actually
Speaker 1: thirty minutes of action. What are you doing during that time?
Speaker 1: So we think you know, m prop bets and and
Speaker 1: you know in game wagering in real time social around
Speaker 1: sports is a fascinating area. UM. And then we invest
Speaker 1: in infrastructure, So what are the core teching tools needed
Speaker 1: in a new generation of gaming? You know, gaming gets
Speaker 1: big and you see outsized returns on investments at the
Speaker 1: intersection of a new form of distribution in a new
Speaker 1: form of monetization. See, you're going from a city dollar
Speaker 1: console game, going to free to play Facebook games where
Speaker 1: making micro transactions, to mobile distribution within that purchases and
Speaker 1: now the we're in a cloud computing era and we're
Speaker 1: moving into this you know monetization framework of play to
Speaker 1: earn in crypto as part of the currency of the games.
Speaker 1: This is the moment in time where you'll see really
Speaker 1: outside returns for investments in gaming. And so we're looking
Speaker 1: at all aspects of the game ecosystem UM, and we
Speaker 1: look for you know, founders with unique insights into why
Speaker 1: the i P they're creating at this moment in time
Speaker 1: can leverage the cloud mobile global distribution with new fundamental
Speaker 1: economics that not only are allowing users to spend money
Speaker 1: in the game, but earn money in those games as well.
Speaker 1: And so that's kind of the broad strokes of of
Speaker 1: how we look at investing in the gaming ecosystem. Now,
Speaker 1: I was reading an article and you said before that
Speaker 1: you want to meet a founder who can see a
Speaker 1: trend and has the knowledge, network and ability to execute
Speaker 1: on their vision. UM. Can you talk to me about
Speaker 1: an investment that you made, UM, whether it was in gaming,
Speaker 1: sports or fitness, where the operator had, you know, a
Speaker 1: unique vision about what the future looked like that caused
Speaker 1: you to want to invest in You ultimately probably did invest. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So it's a really good UM company here in New York.
Speaker 1: They're based in Brooklyn. It's called players Lounge. UM. Austin
Speaker 1: Um is a phenomenal founder. You know, he created a
Speaker 1: gaming platform that allows you to connect with somebody else
Speaker 1: in the network and play them in a console game
Speaker 1: or a PC game. UM. So I can challenge you
Speaker 1: to a game of Madden, I can challenge you to
Speaker 1: a game of FIFA two K Fortnite. I'll put up
Speaker 1: ten bucks. You put up ten bucks. You know, the
Speaker 1: winner takes eighteen the house takes their ten percent cut
Speaker 1: on that transaction. You know that. You know, four or
Speaker 1: five years ago people would be like, that's crazy. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna you know what we did in the door room
Speaker 1: in college, Like we sat down and we had consoles
Speaker 1: and I'm like, I'll play you like loser Bys and
Speaker 1: Ford you like, this is where right, and now you
Speaker 1: can do And I always say when people ask me
Speaker 1: about Players Lounge, I'm like, Austin was a hustler, Like
Speaker 1: he was going and setting up game nights in bars
Speaker 1: in Brooklyn. He's like, oh, you got a trivia night
Speaker 1: on night, Like I cannot bring in a group of
Speaker 1: FIFA meet up group and connect the consoles and have
Speaker 1: them come in and play. I'll guarantee you have foot
Speaker 1: traffic on a night that would be like for you normally,
Speaker 1: and they're gonna drink and spend money. I'm gonna get this.
Speaker 1: And then he's like, why am I doing this in person?
Speaker 1: I can do this online and created a platform behind that.
Speaker 1: But it was the vision of taking some things saying
Speaker 1: like people like playing games for real money, right, like
Speaker 1: Vegas exists for a reason. Um, you know the lava
Speaker 1: in the US nine billion dollar a year. People like
Speaker 1: to play games for money. It's a natural part of
Speaker 1: what we do. And you see that with the regulatory
Speaker 1: and environerships and you know, uh, New Jersey just hit
Speaker 1: a billion dollars in wagers one state billion dollars in
Speaker 1: wagers in one month. Right, so you talk about the
Speaker 1: amount of value that's going in and he was like,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna take it and apply to console games, right
Speaker 1: for hardcore cats who really like playing. And I consider
Speaker 1: that the new Poker Night used to get together with
Speaker 1: people play poker, you hanging out with your friends. Now
Speaker 1: you're just connecting online and you're playing games that you
Speaker 1: you normally would and so for for real money. And
Speaker 1: so that's the type of founder you know that at
Speaker 1: a unique insight that was like, oh man, I got this.
Speaker 1: How do we scale it? How do we execute? Phenomenal
Speaker 1: investors on the cap table, venture funds, athletes, celebrities you know,
Speaker 1: coming into co invest alongside. And I think those are
Speaker 1: the types of investments where it's almost brain dead simple
Speaker 1: and obvious, like why isn't this happening? But somebody can
Speaker 1: see a broader transformation in the market that allows them
Speaker 1: to scale us to you know, tens of millions of
Speaker 1: dollars in re You know, we often talk about founders
Speaker 1: finding market opportunity to solve problems. UM, I don't necessarily
Speaker 1: think about creating gaming as like solve a problem solved.
Speaker 1: Maybe you do, and I'd love to hear your thoughts
Speaker 1: on that, UM, Like, are there yet still a lot
Speaker 1: of problems to be solved in this? If there are problems?
Speaker 1: Or is this is this entertainment? How do you position this? Yeah? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean we just made an investment in a tools business,
Speaker 1: UM that can take a two D image and create
Speaker 1: a three D asset that can be used in a
Speaker 1: game or in the metapath. And so if you look
Speaker 1: at gaming, you have a two D artist sketching something out,
Speaker 1: three D artists, you have an animator, right, the process
Speaker 1: for creating really high quality art. I mean, if you
Speaker 1: play games nowadays, you see how real right the players are. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, there are tons of infrastructure and technology business.
Speaker 1: I mean we're talking about Microsoft's cloud business in gaming
Speaker 1: being a ten billion dollar a year business. You know,
Speaker 1: the lift on the back and infrastructure to power that
Speaker 1: isn't incredible, right, most people think about epic games for Fortnite, Right,
Speaker 1: the Unreal engine powers most of the console games in
Speaker 1: the world. Right, So they have an incredibly powerful engine,
Speaker 1: and you know, I think that's part of the value.
Speaker 1: Look at Unity, publicly traded games company. It's a game
Speaker 1: engine for mobile um And so when I think about
Speaker 1: you know, problems in the uh the ecosystem around gaming.
Speaker 1: You know, having worked in studios and launched studios before,
Speaker 1: you have to really understand what it takes to create
Speaker 1: I P what it takes to deploy that to launch
Speaker 1: games as a service, right, all the ugly stuff. You
Speaker 1: don't think about leaderboards and player matching, and you know,
Speaker 1: nonplayer characters having really sophisticated are you know, AI behind
Speaker 1: them so you can interact with them in the game.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of core tech that goes on there,
Speaker 1: and so we try to pick off the pieces of
Speaker 1: the industry and say, okay, where are there's where is
Speaker 1: there a huge amount of dollars being spent, What are
Speaker 1: the biggest technological challenges and who are the right teams
Speaker 1: to solve those? Oftentimes they come out of studios or
Speaker 1: they come out of environments like a Riot games or
Speaker 1: they come out of Amazon on the scene. You know
Speaker 1: how much games are being powered on their cloud infrastructure,
Speaker 1: and UM, you know that's one part of the business.
Speaker 1: I think the fun and exciting part that people tend
Speaker 1: to be drawn to is, Oh, here's a new game
Speaker 1: that launched and we love it and we're playing it
Speaker 1: because there are worst in the game. But there's so
Speaker 1: much that goes on behind the door, behind the scenes
Speaker 1: in the studio to pull that off for her. As
Speaker 1: you say before that when you take a meeting, you're
Speaker 1: looking for ten slides in a demo, right, and UM,
Speaker 1: what are the top three slides you're lasering in on?
Speaker 1: Team is always first, UM, you know, we invest in
Speaker 1: the earliest stages of a business. I've been a founder
Speaker 1: three times over. It's the hardest thing in the world
Speaker 1: to do. It really is like running a successful startup.
Speaker 1: And I've only done it one out of three tries.
Speaker 1: So from experience of failure here, UM that that it's
Speaker 1: really challenging. So team is always first. Team can be
Speaker 1: repeat founder. Teams can be individuals who have domain expertise
Speaker 1: that's outsized. UM. In a unique perspective like we talked about.
Speaker 1: TAM is the other one, right, Like, what is the
Speaker 1: total addressable market that you're going after? Um, you know,
Speaker 1: if you're launching a game only in New Zealand, I'm
Speaker 1: probably not your guy, you know, Like it's just too
Speaker 1: small of a market. You know. We have to return
Speaker 1: you know, our fund to fifty five million dollars three
Speaker 1: times over, right, So I'm looking for a big market.
Speaker 1: We're gonna inevitably own ten percent of that company, you know,
Speaker 1: so that means you gotta be a five million dollar outcome.
Speaker 1: There has to be a massive market there, um, you know.
Speaker 1: And I think those are the top two. If I
Speaker 1: were to think about, you know, a third component at
Speaker 1: the earliest stages, um, it would probably have to be
Speaker 1: past experience, right, what allows you to pull this off? Right,
Speaker 1: whether it's you see a lot of people hiring out
Speaker 1: of Facebook and Google because they think there are companies
Speaker 1: that have you know, do it well, or you see
Speaker 1: them come out of a successful startler, your track record,
Speaker 1: and we invest in the the first time founders. But track record,
Speaker 1: to me, is not necessarily a determinant of future success,
Speaker 1: but it's a ingredient in the overall recipe that allows
Speaker 1: you to pull off what is inevitably an incredibly challenging feat.
Speaker 1: What are some of those indicates as the first time
Speaker 1: founder that you might fund that says your path, you know,
Speaker 1: gives you validity with regards to you know you can
Speaker 1: do this thing. Yeah, Um, it's you know, I refer
Speaker 1: to it a lot as um you know, founder company fit. Right.
Speaker 1: So I came out of working in mobile and I
Speaker 1: worked in gaming, and my first company was mobile gaming. Like,
Speaker 1: you know, I hadn't done a startup, but I've spent
Speaker 1: years of Microsoft. I've worked at a bunch of startups,
Speaker 1: and that was a key contributor, right, Like some people
Speaker 1: tell me I came out of Facebook, Like you're the
Speaker 1: eighteen thousand employee working on like a non meaningful product,
Speaker 1: But like, were you the lead designer on I G
Speaker 1: Like that's different, right, And so you kind of have
Speaker 1: to know what somebody was really doing. Um. And that's
Speaker 1: where if you're a first time founder, it's like what
Speaker 1: is that unique inside? Right? You might be at a
Speaker 1: company like a salesforce and say we do these three
Speaker 1: things really well, but there's a part over here that
Speaker 1: everybody's ignoring. And because we're generating billions that can be
Speaker 1: a hundred million dollar revenue run rate business that can
Speaker 1: get us to a billion dollar valuation. Like I'm gonna
Speaker 1: pick this piece off and this is why, and this
Speaker 1: is the platform that I've worked on. UM So that's
Speaker 1: you know, we look for those like what are the
Speaker 1: unique insights you have? What is your expertise in your network?
Speaker 1: Your insight that allows you to to to see around
Speaker 1: the corner that nobody else has seen. And if you
Speaker 1: have that, then you then have to surround themselves like
Speaker 1: being a great found like the journey of a found
Speaker 1: or in a first time founder. Everybody's the first time
Speaker 1: founder at some point in time, and so what you
Speaker 1: look for somebody who's highly coachable because you can you know,
Speaker 1: think about the sports analogy, but the NFL combine. You
Speaker 1: might be able to jump really high, you might be
Speaker 1: able to bench a lot, you might be able to
Speaker 1: you know, max out on your reps, but are you
Speaker 1: going to be great team leader? Are you going to
Speaker 1: be able to read defenses? Like what is your intuition?
Speaker 1: And so everything that we do there's an art and
Speaker 1: a science to it, and so but I think about founders,
Speaker 1: you might be a great product person. You might be
Speaker 1: a great salesperson. Um, you might have a unique insight,
Speaker 1: but there's a ton about leading a business you don't know.
Speaker 1: So you can be a great founder in a great
Speaker 1: entrepreneur without being a great CEO. In the journey that
Speaker 1: someone's willing to go on during this process is how
Speaker 1: do you go from a good founder or a great
Speaker 1: founder to a great CEO. And we've seen the biggest
Speaker 1: companies in the world, the best companies of the world,
Speaker 1: their CEO is mature. Right, Zuck couldn't get on stage
Speaker 1: at one point in time and give a presentation. Fine,
Speaker 1: now gates same thing, right, Um, basis you knew when
Speaker 1: to call it a day and transition off to a
Speaker 1: chairman role and leave the CEO. Right. And so they
Speaker 1: went from great founders to becoming great CEOs. And that's
Speaker 1: a path and a journey that that that takes years
Speaker 1: of you know, refining and so so I look at
Speaker 1: coach ability as one of the key factors for us.
Speaker 1: If somebody is the first time founder, that they're willing
Speaker 1: to learn that they have a that they want to
Speaker 1: get better at this craft. They just don't want to
Speaker 1: win in the business, right they actually have business goals
Speaker 1: that they want to get to and they understand that
Speaker 1: the personal growth and development leads them to work that
Speaker 1: as well. You know, you're also a founder, as you mentioned, um,
Speaker 1: and you're somewhat you know, I would say Mary to
Speaker 1: particular verticals, you know, sports, gaming, you know, media, fitness, UM,
Speaker 1: what you need? Value? Do you believe you provide founders
Speaker 1: in these spaces because you know, again you're also a founder,
Speaker 1: but as a VC, what value you provide? Yeah? So
Speaker 1: every founder is great at something and there's areas of
Speaker 1: improvement and I was no different. And so what I
Speaker 1: try to work with founders on is where do you
Speaker 1: need to help? Like? What what are the things right?
Speaker 1: Like I hope in many of the cases that I'm
Speaker 1: not just a tactical component and another piece on the
Speaker 1: chess board that they move around to help accelerate the business.
Speaker 1: That's the case many times, and that's fine. We play
Speaker 1: that role. But you know, how do you build a
Speaker 1: good company culture? Right? Like? What does that mean for you?
Speaker 1: What are the values in the guiding lights and the
Speaker 1: principles that you're driving your organization towards. Like people don't
Speaker 1: think about them. It's just like I need to hire
Speaker 1: for a role. I need to fill a body. I
Speaker 1: need an engineer, I need to just you know, I
Speaker 1: need a product manager. I needed somebody is really good
Speaker 1: to use your acquisition and then like run. But what
Speaker 1: are the principles of the guiding lights behind that? Right? Um,
Speaker 1: In my third company, everybody's salary was known by everybody else, transparent.
Speaker 1: Everybody's equity ownership was transparent. Every decision, every meeting we had.
Speaker 1: Everybody knew everything, and we fostered. There was no jealousy,
Speaker 1: there was no who's making more? Why? It was all benchmarked.
Speaker 1: It was all standard performance. And so you know, PTO,
Speaker 1: do you have unlimited vacation policy? Why? How do you
Speaker 1: make sure you don't suffer burnout? What are you doing? Like,
Speaker 1: there's so many things that we try to work with
Speaker 1: founders on to create a better company because oftentimes they're
Speaker 1: so focused on the product, the sales, the outcomes that
Speaker 1: if you ignore the underlying components of business, you're building
Speaker 1: a house of cards that's gonna crumble at the point
Speaker 1: in time. So you know that's from a founder perspective.
Speaker 1: You know, how do you negotiate M and A deals?
Speaker 1: I worked in them and a before right like what
Speaker 1: are evaluations whether standard benchmarks like we talked to publicly
Speaker 1: traded companies, we talked to private companies, We talked to
Speaker 1: head funds, We talk to other startups in the ecosystem,
Speaker 1: knowledge sharing expertise. Our LPs are all strategic to US
Speaker 1: public companies, high networth individuals, their protein owners. Whatever deals
Speaker 1: we're doing, we want to be able to bring value
Speaker 1: from ourselves and from our network, our investors in that
Speaker 1: comprehensive package. Hopefully as a board member or a board observer.
Speaker 1: Often times if we don't take the board seat, will
Speaker 1: add value. And so we try to do it on
Speaker 1: personal level and try to do it on a fund level.
Speaker 1: We work really hard for and with our founders. We
Speaker 1: consider ourselves part of the extended team and whatever we
Speaker 1: need to do that we can to support that business,
Speaker 1: we spent time. My entire Friday is always dedicated to
Speaker 1: my perfor Black Tech. Green Money is and production to
Speaker 1: Black the Afro Tech on the Black Effect Podcast Network
Speaker 1: and i Heeart Media. It's produced by Morgan Dubonn and
Speaker 1: me Will Lucas, with additional production support by Love Beach
Speaker 1: and Russa Lewis Special Thank you to Michael Davis, Sadam
Speaker 1: Simson's the carsa von Yon you know like the Whine. Yes,
Speaker 1: that's his real name. Learn more about my guests and
Speaker 1: other tech thissft's innovators at afro tech dot com. The
Speaker 1: video version of this episode would drop the Black Tech
Speaker 1: Green Money on YouTube, so tap in enjoying Black Tech
Speaker 1: Green Money. Leave us a five star rating on iTunes.
Speaker 1: Gonna Beat Your Money, Piece and Love Else Are The
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