1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,720 Speaker 1: Hey, so a little We're gonna be in Brooklyn August. 2 00:00:03,320 --> 00:00:07,080 Speaker 1: I'm so excited about this, man, check us out. The 3 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:12,640 Speaker 1: first Black Effect Podcast Festival was happening Sunday August in Brooklyn. 4 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:17,400 Speaker 1: Take us available Black Effect dot Com Forward Slash Podcast 5 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:21,320 Speaker 1: Festival Live podcasts from your favorite shows. Black Tech, Green 6 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 1: Money's gonna be there for sure, and I'm super excited 7 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:26,400 Speaker 1: about this because it's the first time I've ever been 8 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:28,880 Speaker 1: able to do a live podcast. So come check your 9 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:31,280 Speaker 1: boy out. Eighty five show is gonna be there. All 10 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 1: this moments gonna be there. Get six today Black Effect 11 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:39,560 Speaker 1: dot Com Forward Slash Podcast Festival. I'm Little Lucas Mrs 12 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:43,600 Speaker 1: Black Tech, Green Money. I'm gonna answer to some of 13 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:46,800 Speaker 1: the biggest names, some of the brightest minds and brilliant ideas. 14 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 1: I feel black in building are simply using tech to 15 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:57,480 Speaker 1: secure your bag. This podcast is for you. Ki bous 16 00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 1: And investor, founder, and entrepreneur who serves his partner of 17 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:04,960 Speaker 1: Course i VC, which focuses on sports, gaming and fitness verticals. 18 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:09,480 Speaker 1: I asked about the differences between sports of yesteryear and 19 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:12,360 Speaker 1: the sports of today and why the sports is today 20 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:15,480 Speaker 1: is right for innovation in ways it's never been before, 21 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:18,800 Speaker 1: and how that opportunity creates a lane for people like 22 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:22,160 Speaker 1: me and you to capitalize. Sports used to be a 23 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:27,520 Speaker 1: game and now it's culture. When you look at you 24 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:31,280 Speaker 1: know what's going on with CAP what you see in 25 00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:34,920 Speaker 1: the English Premier League, UM, where players are taking a 26 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:39,679 Speaker 1: knee before every game. UM. When you think about the 27 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:44,959 Speaker 1: power of sports in society, it's one of the things 28 00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:47,640 Speaker 1: that can bring us together. It's one of the things 29 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:52,920 Speaker 1: that divides us. Sports and sports figures, athletes. You see 30 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 1: it today in social media, their influences outside and you 31 00:01:57,000 --> 00:02:00,080 Speaker 1: know the shut up and dribble, you know, conversation and 32 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 1: that had that happened. You know, we're talking about individuals 33 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:08,640 Speaker 1: who are transforming society at a faster pace, I would 34 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 1: argue than politicians are because they're at the forefront of 35 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:15,000 Speaker 1: the discussion every day. And so when we think about 36 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:18,359 Speaker 1: sports and investing in sports, a lot of people put 37 00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:21,200 Speaker 1: us in a bubble of sports, technology and fitness and 38 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:25,120 Speaker 1: what goes on. But I think you cannot invest in 39 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 1: sports and be blind to the fact that we are 40 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:34,519 Speaker 1: talking about cultural movements that are happening within this space. UM. 41 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:38,799 Speaker 1: And that's been true for years right, Um, ever since 42 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 1: the raised fist that the Berlin Olympics when Hitler refused 43 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:46,520 Speaker 1: to shake hands like these literally on a podium, right, 44 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:49,000 Speaker 1: you know, this is this is where we are as 45 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 1: a society. And with the amplification of the voices through 46 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:55,640 Speaker 1: social media, UM, you know you're seeing sports really playing 47 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:57,639 Speaker 1: a huge part of culture, not only in the U. S. 48 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 1: BU globe. And I remember Canna um delaying Partnell, who 49 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:04,880 Speaker 1: you know is one of the biggest um E sports 50 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:09,639 Speaker 1: gaming companies around right now, growing really fastest from play 51 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:13,880 Speaker 1: Versus and I remember him saying that historically for a 52 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:16,440 Speaker 1: kid to get a varsity letter, they had to be fit, 53 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 1: they had to run fast, they had to hit hard. 54 00:03:18,919 --> 00:03:21,760 Speaker 1: And now you can be a great gamer and when 55 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:25,919 Speaker 1: a state trophy because of companies like play versus UM 56 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:28,680 Speaker 1: And I maybe it was Mark Injuries and who said 57 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 1: this next thing, but he said something about like how 58 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 1: when the user interfaces become very mature, that's when they 59 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:39,600 Speaker 1: get massive. That's when technology gets mass adoption. When you know, 60 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:43,320 Speaker 1: when user interfaces are difficult, people don't grasp onto it. 61 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:47,040 Speaker 1: But when the user interfaces fluent, um, more people can 62 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:49,800 Speaker 1: use it because it's easier to use. Um, I'm still 63 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 1: not sure and maybe I'm wrong. I'm still not sure 64 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 1: we've seen mass adoption with regards to gaming yet as 65 00:03:57,160 --> 00:04:00,120 Speaker 1: an industry, and I could be wrong. Um, but what 66 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 1: would in the position I come from, what will it 67 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:07,600 Speaker 1: take to get more parents to see past the idea 68 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 1: that little Billy isn't just playing games, but he is 69 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 1: playing games. But there's a large opportunity there. Yeah. Yeah, 70 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:18,040 Speaker 1: I think the most powerful thing that Mark Andrew has 71 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 1: never said in my perspective, and software is eating the 72 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 1: world right. And I think today I would argue that 73 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 1: gamings eating the world right. He just took the board 74 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:30,120 Speaker 1: seated Acti Infinity. Um. Acti Infinity is a game where 75 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:34,080 Speaker 1: you can play to earn real money in the game. Um, 76 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:36,720 Speaker 1: they're creating a massive economy. The economy will be larger 77 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:39,000 Speaker 1: than some countries. Some people are putting their jobs just 78 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:43,560 Speaker 1: to play this game all day, right, And so I 79 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:48,800 Speaker 1: think the way that we view gaming is transformative in 80 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:51,440 Speaker 1: terms of and I wrote a long blog host about this, 81 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 1: but the next big social network, the next big Facebook 82 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:57,479 Speaker 1: that we think of today and TikTok is going to 83 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:01,040 Speaker 1: be in a game that that's already happening right fortnite. 84 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:07,240 Speaker 1: Kids growing up today are their first social experiences in roadblocks, right, 85 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:09,839 Speaker 1: That's how they're meeting people. This is their social network. 86 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:14,599 Speaker 1: Tweet it was roadblocks is their LinkedIn. That's that's where 87 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:20,040 Speaker 1: you go. Right. And so when I think about generational change, right, 88 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:23,960 Speaker 1: so I'm forty two, when I you know, my parents 89 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:27,479 Speaker 1: idea of playing games was going to an arcade, It's like, 90 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 1: this is what you do on a Friday night at 91 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 1: nine o'clock and somebody when you play arcade game and 92 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:37,280 Speaker 1: you know, the Chucky Cheese era, right coming up, Like 93 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:40,200 Speaker 1: this is a family entertainment experience. You go to do 94 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:45,919 Speaker 1: it if you just look at the our generation. I 95 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 1: was part of the console generation, right, so Super Nintendo 96 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:54,440 Speaker 1: and yes you know, and then you've got report you 97 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 1: know your game boys, right, um, and today I argue 98 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 1: that everybody is carrying a console in their pocket. Right. 99 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:07,160 Speaker 1: In mobile gaming now globally seventy billion dollar a year industry. Right, 100 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:09,279 Speaker 1: gaming is a hundred and sixty billion dollar a year 101 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:14,880 Speaker 1: industry annually. So you can take the box office music 102 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:19,839 Speaker 1: sales in television without the streaming services, and it doesn't 103 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:23,720 Speaker 1: add up to that that total TAM. And the misconception 104 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:25,839 Speaker 1: is that you know, you can ask somebody, you know, 105 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:30,480 Speaker 1: particularly you ask a middle aged man, old woman, are 106 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:33,600 Speaker 1: you a gamer? They say no, Well do you play 107 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 1: games on your phone? Yes? What do you play? I 108 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:39,159 Speaker 1: play golf clash, I play words with friends. I only 109 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 1: play a little bit, you know, during launch and then 110 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:43,479 Speaker 1: after where I'm going to commute home. And I'm like, 111 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:45,479 Speaker 1: you played thirty minutes of games a day, but you 112 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:50,280 Speaker 1: don't consider yourself a gamer? Right, So you know, you're 113 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 1: seeing the acceptance of my generation that grew up with 114 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 1: consoles now saying well, gaming is not actually bad, Like 115 00:06:56,480 --> 00:07:01,000 Speaker 1: it didn't lead to the detrimental things that people thought 116 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:03,359 Speaker 1: it would, right, you know, the early days of g 117 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:05,680 Speaker 1: t A, the early days of first person in shooters. 118 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:09,360 Speaker 1: It's it's just not. The stigma associated with it is 119 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:12,520 Speaker 1: still there. But the industry is massive, and I think 120 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:14,920 Speaker 1: that we've seen a generational change of people who grew 121 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:17,559 Speaker 1: up playing games in a home, and now we're starting 122 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 1: to see people play games anywhere. Right, And that's why 123 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:22,600 Speaker 1: you see the growth and mobile. Mobile will surpass the 124 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:27,720 Speaker 1: total revenue generated in gaming, then console and PC combined 125 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:31,120 Speaker 1: next year, um and that you know, when we have 126 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 1: an investment in India, very little console penetration, everybody's playing 127 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:38,960 Speaker 1: mobile games. India's by far the world's largest gaming market 128 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 1: with the exception of China, and if you look at 129 00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:43,720 Speaker 1: the numbers in the sheer amount and it will surpass 130 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:46,320 Speaker 1: China given the recent regulatory changes that have gone in 131 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:48,800 Speaker 1: limiting the amount of time kids can play games. So, 132 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:51,880 Speaker 1: you know, I think we're in a moment in time 133 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:56,560 Speaker 1: where we talk about them Ataverse, we talk about the 134 00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 1: Pokemon Goes, you talk about roadblocks, you talk about Fortnite, 135 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:02,560 Speaker 1: that this is the way people are going to socialize, 136 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:05,280 Speaker 1: and this is a game we were a digital native generation. 137 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:10,280 Speaker 1: This is a game native generation. Interesting so particular to 138 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:12,680 Speaker 1: let the things that we talked about with the roadblocks 139 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 1: and Fortnite. You know, I have little kids and for them, 140 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 1: you know, they think nothing about spending real dollars to 141 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:23,880 Speaker 1: have dollars in the game, right, And I wonder what 142 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:28,920 Speaker 1: your perspective is on how they will grow up, you know, 143 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 1: being let's say sub twelve, sub twelve years old. And 144 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:33,240 Speaker 1: I don't know if you have kids or not, but 145 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:35,960 Speaker 1: like you, you study this, so how how will they 146 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 1: grow up in a world how were they're they're thinking 147 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 1: be structured around value? So is me having a whole 148 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:50,719 Speaker 1: twelve football ten ft high full of sneakers and boxes 149 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:54,680 Speaker 1: of you know old Jordan's. They will have a virtual 150 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:59,360 Speaker 1: world of you know, digital chatch keys, like you know 151 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:03,600 Speaker 1: gyms that they got in two thousand twenty. You know, 152 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:08,560 Speaker 1: it's like, how how will they think about these things? Yeah, 153 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:12,160 Speaker 1: it's a great question. And so we're investors in stock 154 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 1: ax out of fun one. Right, And if you're a 155 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 1: sneaker head, you've got kicks, you've been on Goat, you've 156 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:21,400 Speaker 1: been on stock X. You don't see your sneakers as 157 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:26,440 Speaker 1: a utility, right, you see them as a luxury iity um. 158 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:30,920 Speaker 1: And what we saw in this last ten years of 159 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:36,719 Speaker 1: innovation internet space, particularly around a gig economy in ownership, 160 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:39,439 Speaker 1: like the fact that you would say, yeah, I'm just 161 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:41,840 Speaker 1: gonna put my crib on Airbnb. Like people were crazy 162 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:44,160 Speaker 1: when the airbnb came out. People are like, are you insane? 163 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:46,840 Speaker 1: You're gonna stay at strangers? You're gonna let somebody stay 164 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:49,320 Speaker 1: in your crib? Like, Nah, that's not possible, that's not 165 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:51,880 Speaker 1: gonna happen. Right, And now it's like I'd rather stay 166 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:55,480 Speaker 1: at an Airbnb in a hotel, right, And so the 167 00:09:55,559 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 1: idea of ownership is changing rapidly in our society. And 168 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:03,040 Speaker 1: again I go back, it's generational change. What was cool 169 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 1: for my parents generation was a Ford Mustang, a muscle car, 170 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:10,040 Speaker 1: like that was who you were and that representative piece 171 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:13,000 Speaker 1: of your identity. This generation grew up and was like, 172 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:15,040 Speaker 1: who cares about a car. I can take an Uber anywhere. 173 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:16,480 Speaker 1: It's gonna cost me less. I don't have to worry 174 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:19,720 Speaker 1: about maintenance and parking and alternate side. I'll just take 175 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:22,560 Speaker 1: Ubers everywhere and it's gonna cost me less on a 176 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 1: monthly basis. So this leads us to a game native generation. 177 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 1: So Fortnite generates two point one two point three billion 178 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:38,120 Speaker 1: dollars a year selling skins. That's it, that's their business model. 179 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:41,520 Speaker 1: Why because if you buy an NFL jersey or you 180 00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:44,520 Speaker 1: buy a Marvel character jersey to skin your character in 181 00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:48,800 Speaker 1: the game, that's the representation to your peer group, no 182 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 1: different than owning that Mustang or having a pair of 183 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 1: Yeezys or having a skin in Fortnae. So when people 184 00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:58,640 Speaker 1: talk about, oh, I'm believing n f T s, this 185 00:10:58,679 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 1: stuff is fleeting. I'm like, you're not in touch with reality. 186 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:06,319 Speaker 1: You don't understand how you view digital assets. You might 187 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:08,960 Speaker 1: have dope artwork on your wall. Well guess what I 188 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:11,640 Speaker 1: got an n f T in my virtual world. It's 189 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:15,440 Speaker 1: no different. It's the exact same thing. It represents who 190 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:19,280 Speaker 1: you are, it's part of your identity. And so you know, 191 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 1: we're very bullish on the n f T space, and 192 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 1: I think even more so. Digital has this unique opportunity 193 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:29,400 Speaker 1: that we're going to see emerge in fractional ownership. So 194 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:31,000 Speaker 1: in the same way we had a gig economy, and 195 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:32,880 Speaker 1: the same way you treated an asset and you're willing 196 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:36,520 Speaker 1: to sell it or lease it, digital opens up completely 197 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:38,679 Speaker 1: new opportunities. And so when you talk about n f T, 198 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:41,120 Speaker 1: s oh, I created an original piece of art as 199 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:43,480 Speaker 1: an artist, I'm not but to say I did, and 200 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:47,720 Speaker 1: I sell that and now it gets resold for ten 201 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:50,800 Speaker 1: X because there's a smart contract associated with it. I 202 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:54,080 Speaker 1: get a portion of that used that that secondary transaction 203 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:56,280 Speaker 1: or the third flip of that item as it goes 204 00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:59,440 Speaker 1: up over time. So it unlocks additional value the same 205 00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:01,839 Speaker 1: way stock x unlocks value, which is you can buy 206 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:05,000 Speaker 1: a pair of kicks, hold them, flip them, and you're 207 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:08,760 Speaker 1: gonna get the proceeds. Now, the artist, the creator, whoever 208 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:11,319 Speaker 1: it is, can actually you know, accrue that value. And 209 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 1: I think that's gonna be something lasting in the ecosystem 210 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:18,080 Speaker 1: that really changes the way, you know, art and assets 211 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:21,000 Speaker 1: are monetized over time, and so we're very bullish on 212 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:23,880 Speaker 1: you know, digital art. You know what n f T 213 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:28,280 Speaker 1: s mean, digital ownership over time because again, it is 214 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:32,280 Speaker 1: just an item you own that represents your identity. Just 215 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:35,000 Speaker 1: because it's in the virtual world, it doesn't mean it's 216 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:37,520 Speaker 1: any less or more so than the artwork or the 217 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:41,960 Speaker 1: kicks that you wear. When you you specifically are looking 218 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:46,119 Speaker 1: to invest in gaming, is it game developers you're particularly 219 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:48,880 Speaker 1: looking for? Is it e sports platforms? Is it leads 220 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:52,000 Speaker 1: that you're interested in, Like what's interesting to you that's 221 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:57,000 Speaker 1: happening in the space. Yeah, we have a very diversified 222 00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 1: approach to gaming because I think you know, people tend 223 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:03,839 Speaker 1: to lump gaming into here's the studio creating a game, right, 224 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:08,000 Speaker 1: and we do that. We we we certainly invested in um, 225 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:11,840 Speaker 1: you know a handful of studios. UM. We love the 226 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:15,079 Speaker 1: idea that you know, to me, gaming is not that 227 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:19,160 Speaker 1: different than somebody who's creating an album or a movie. Right, 228 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:21,720 Speaker 1: You're creating a new piece of work. You're putting your 229 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:24,160 Speaker 1: heart and soul in it, and you hope somebody loves it, right, 230 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 1: And it's a creative endeavor. And so you know, from 231 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:29,520 Speaker 1: our perspective, that's where most of the money in the 232 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:32,280 Speaker 1: ecosystem flows today. So we'll continue to make investments in 233 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:36,520 Speaker 1: that space. Um. We tend to put the second bucket 234 00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:40,559 Speaker 1: as what are we investing in terms of social and community. 235 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:42,920 Speaker 1: The sports is part of that. Right. When you look 236 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:45,439 Speaker 1: at one of our early investments, we were early investors 237 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:49,000 Speaker 1: in hundred Thieves. Um, they're any sports team, but they're 238 00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:52,160 Speaker 1: really a lifestyle brand, right you you you see they're 239 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:55,360 Speaker 1: making money not only from competing, but they're making money 240 00:13:55,400 --> 00:14:00,280 Speaker 1: from march right, from content. Um, it's an entertainment in 241 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:04,000 Speaker 1: a brand business. Um. And so you know, we'll invest 242 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:05,720 Speaker 1: in the sports. We invest in a lot of real 243 00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:08,280 Speaker 1: money gaming. So you know, there's a lot of regulatory 244 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:11,599 Speaker 1: change going on in the ecosystem across the US to 245 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:15,160 Speaker 1: allow legalized gambling. Um. You know, we play it that. 246 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:17,920 Speaker 1: It's the intersection of sports and gaming, right, It's what 247 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:20,640 Speaker 1: keeps people engaged in the game. Where you might be 248 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 1: watching a three and a half hour game, there's actually 249 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:25,600 Speaker 1: thirty minutes of action. What are you doing during that time? 250 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:28,400 Speaker 1: So we think you know, m prop bets and and 251 00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:31,880 Speaker 1: you know in game wagering in real time social around 252 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:35,640 Speaker 1: sports is a fascinating area. UM. And then we invest 253 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:38,280 Speaker 1: in infrastructure, So what are the core teching tools needed 254 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:41,600 Speaker 1: in a new generation of gaming? You know, gaming gets 255 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:47,040 Speaker 1: big and you see outsized returns on investments at the 256 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 1: intersection of a new form of distribution in a new 257 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:52,480 Speaker 1: form of monetization. See, you're going from a city dollar 258 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:55,400 Speaker 1: console game, going to free to play Facebook games where 259 00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:59,680 Speaker 1: making micro transactions, to mobile distribution within that purchases and 260 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 1: now the we're in a cloud computing era and we're 261 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:05,240 Speaker 1: moving into this you know monetization framework of play to 262 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:08,120 Speaker 1: earn in crypto as part of the currency of the games. 263 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:11,520 Speaker 1: This is the moment in time where you'll see really 264 00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:14,440 Speaker 1: outside returns for investments in gaming. And so we're looking 265 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:17,960 Speaker 1: at all aspects of the game ecosystem UM, and we 266 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 1: look for you know, founders with unique insights into why 267 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:24,320 Speaker 1: the i P they're creating at this moment in time 268 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:31,000 Speaker 1: can leverage the cloud mobile global distribution with new fundamental 269 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 1: economics that not only are allowing users to spend money 270 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:36,200 Speaker 1: in the game, but earn money in those games as well. 271 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:38,800 Speaker 1: And so that's kind of the broad strokes of of 272 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:41,600 Speaker 1: how we look at investing in the gaming ecosystem. Now, 273 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:44,720 Speaker 1: I was reading an article and you said before that 274 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:47,040 Speaker 1: you want to meet a founder who can see a 275 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:50,359 Speaker 1: trend and has the knowledge, network and ability to execute 276 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:53,920 Speaker 1: on their vision. UM. Can you talk to me about 277 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:57,040 Speaker 1: an investment that you made, UM, whether it was in gaming, 278 00:15:57,080 --> 00:16:00,800 Speaker 1: sports or fitness, where the operator had, you know, a 279 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:04,320 Speaker 1: unique vision about what the future looked like that caused 280 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:09,520 Speaker 1: you to want to invest in You ultimately probably did invest. Yeah. 281 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:12,840 Speaker 1: So it's a really good UM company here in New York. 282 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:17,080 Speaker 1: They're based in Brooklyn. It's called players Lounge. UM. Austin 283 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 1: Um is a phenomenal founder. You know, he created a 284 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:26,960 Speaker 1: gaming platform that allows you to connect with somebody else 285 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:29,840 Speaker 1: in the network and play them in a console game 286 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:32,440 Speaker 1: or a PC game. UM. So I can challenge you 287 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:34,120 Speaker 1: to a game of Madden, I can challenge you to 288 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 1: a game of FIFA two K Fortnite. I'll put up 289 00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:40,400 Speaker 1: ten bucks. You put up ten bucks. You know, the 290 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 1: winner takes eighteen the house takes their ten percent cut 291 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:48,440 Speaker 1: on that transaction. You know that. You know, four or 292 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:50,880 Speaker 1: five years ago people would be like, that's crazy. I'm 293 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:53,280 Speaker 1: gonna you know what we did in the door room 294 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:56,280 Speaker 1: in college, Like we sat down and we had consoles 295 00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:59,480 Speaker 1: and I'm like, I'll play you like loser Bys and 296 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:02,640 Speaker 1: Ford you like, this is where right, and now you 297 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:04,960 Speaker 1: can do And I always say when people ask me 298 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:08,119 Speaker 1: about Players Lounge, I'm like, Austin was a hustler, Like 299 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:11,080 Speaker 1: he was going and setting up game nights in bars 300 00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:12,600 Speaker 1: in Brooklyn. He's like, oh, you got a trivia night 301 00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:16,080 Speaker 1: on night, Like I cannot bring in a group of 302 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:18,760 Speaker 1: FIFA meet up group and connect the consoles and have 303 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:21,280 Speaker 1: them come in and play. I'll guarantee you have foot 304 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:23,479 Speaker 1: traffic on a night that would be like for you normally, 305 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:25,679 Speaker 1: and they're gonna drink and spend money. I'm gonna get this. 306 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:27,879 Speaker 1: And then he's like, why am I doing this in person? 307 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:30,960 Speaker 1: I can do this online and created a platform behind that. 308 00:17:31,359 --> 00:17:33,560 Speaker 1: But it was the vision of taking some things saying 309 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:36,960 Speaker 1: like people like playing games for real money, right, like 310 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 1: Vegas exists for a reason. Um, you know the lava 311 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:43,439 Speaker 1: in the US nine billion dollar a year. People like 312 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:45,359 Speaker 1: to play games for money. It's a natural part of 313 00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:48,200 Speaker 1: what we do. And you see that with the regulatory 314 00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:50,800 Speaker 1: and environerships and you know, uh, New Jersey just hit 315 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 1: a billion dollars in wagers one state billion dollars in 316 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 1: wagers in one month. Right, so you talk about the 317 00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:57,719 Speaker 1: amount of value that's going in and he was like, 318 00:17:57,840 --> 00:18:00,280 Speaker 1: I'm gonna take it and apply to console games, right 319 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:02,639 Speaker 1: for hardcore cats who really like playing. And I consider 320 00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:04,240 Speaker 1: that the new Poker Night used to get together with 321 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:06,199 Speaker 1: people play poker, you hanging out with your friends. Now 322 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:09,240 Speaker 1: you're just connecting online and you're playing games that you 323 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:12,320 Speaker 1: you normally would and so for for real money. And 324 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:14,360 Speaker 1: so that's the type of founder you know that at 325 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:16,280 Speaker 1: a unique insight that was like, oh man, I got this. 326 00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:19,480 Speaker 1: How do we scale it? How do we execute? Phenomenal 327 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:25,119 Speaker 1: investors on the cap table, venture funds, athletes, celebrities you know, 328 00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:28,119 Speaker 1: coming into co invest alongside. And I think those are 329 00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:31,560 Speaker 1: the types of investments where it's almost brain dead simple 330 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:35,320 Speaker 1: and obvious, like why isn't this happening? But somebody can 331 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:39,719 Speaker 1: see a broader transformation in the market that allows them 332 00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:42,480 Speaker 1: to scale us to you know, tens of millions of 333 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:46,480 Speaker 1: dollars in re You know, we often talk about founders 334 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:51,760 Speaker 1: finding market opportunity to solve problems. UM, I don't necessarily 335 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:56,639 Speaker 1: think about creating gaming as like solve a problem solved. 336 00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:58,520 Speaker 1: Maybe you do, and I'd love to hear your thoughts 337 00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 1: on that, UM, Like, are there yet still a lot 338 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:06,640 Speaker 1: of problems to be solved in this? If there are problems? 339 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:11,560 Speaker 1: Or is this is this entertainment? How do you position this? Yeah? Yeah, 340 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:13,959 Speaker 1: I mean we just made an investment in a tools business, 341 00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:18,560 Speaker 1: UM that can take a two D image and create 342 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:20,919 Speaker 1: a three D asset that can be used in a 343 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:24,000 Speaker 1: game or in the metapath. And so if you look 344 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:27,200 Speaker 1: at gaming, you have a two D artist sketching something out, 345 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:30,880 Speaker 1: three D artists, you have an animator, right, the process 346 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:32,840 Speaker 1: for creating really high quality art. I mean, if you 347 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:37,920 Speaker 1: play games nowadays, you see how real right the players are. Um, 348 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:42,080 Speaker 1: you know, there are tons of infrastructure and technology business. 349 00:19:42,119 --> 00:19:45,440 Speaker 1: I mean we're talking about Microsoft's cloud business in gaming 350 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:49,040 Speaker 1: being a ten billion dollar a year business. You know, 351 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:52,520 Speaker 1: the lift on the back and infrastructure to power that 352 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:57,560 Speaker 1: isn't incredible, right, most people think about epic games for Fortnite, Right, 353 00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:01,439 Speaker 1: the Unreal engine powers most of the console games in 354 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:04,879 Speaker 1: the world. Right, So they have an incredibly powerful engine, 355 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:07,359 Speaker 1: and you know, I think that's part of the value. 356 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:09,960 Speaker 1: Look at Unity, publicly traded games company. It's a game 357 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 1: engine for mobile um And so when I think about 358 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:19,640 Speaker 1: you know, problems in the uh the ecosystem around gaming. 359 00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:22,679 Speaker 1: You know, having worked in studios and launched studios before, 360 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:26,439 Speaker 1: you have to really understand what it takes to create 361 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:29,119 Speaker 1: I P what it takes to deploy that to launch 362 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:31,399 Speaker 1: games as a service, right, all the ugly stuff. You 363 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:35,439 Speaker 1: don't think about leaderboards and player matching, and you know, 364 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:40,399 Speaker 1: nonplayer characters having really sophisticated are you know, AI behind 365 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:42,120 Speaker 1: them so you can interact with them in the game. 366 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:44,400 Speaker 1: There's a lot of core tech that goes on there, 367 00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:46,240 Speaker 1: and so we try to pick off the pieces of 368 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:49,159 Speaker 1: the industry and say, okay, where are there's where is 369 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:51,639 Speaker 1: there a huge amount of dollars being spent, What are 370 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:54,120 Speaker 1: the biggest technological challenges and who are the right teams 371 00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:56,480 Speaker 1: to solve those? Oftentimes they come out of studios or 372 00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:59,000 Speaker 1: they come out of environments like a Riot games or 373 00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:01,080 Speaker 1: they come out of Amazon on the scene. You know 374 00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:03,920 Speaker 1: how much games are being powered on their cloud infrastructure, 375 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:08,919 Speaker 1: and UM, you know that's one part of the business. 376 00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:11,560 Speaker 1: I think the fun and exciting part that people tend 377 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:13,640 Speaker 1: to be drawn to is, Oh, here's a new game 378 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:15,639 Speaker 1: that launched and we love it and we're playing it 379 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:17,800 Speaker 1: because there are worst in the game. But there's so 380 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:20,439 Speaker 1: much that goes on behind the door, behind the scenes 381 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:24,919 Speaker 1: in the studio to pull that off for her. As 382 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:27,040 Speaker 1: you say before that when you take a meeting, you're 383 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:31,120 Speaker 1: looking for ten slides in a demo, right, and UM, 384 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:34,679 Speaker 1: what are the top three slides you're lasering in on? 385 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:41,080 Speaker 1: Team is always first, UM, you know, we invest in 386 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:43,160 Speaker 1: the earliest stages of a business. I've been a founder 387 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:46,960 Speaker 1: three times over. It's the hardest thing in the world 388 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:50,640 Speaker 1: to do. It really is like running a successful startup. 389 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:52,280 Speaker 1: And I've only done it one out of three tries. 390 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:56,800 Speaker 1: So from experience of failure here, UM that that it's 391 00:21:56,800 --> 00:21:59,240 Speaker 1: really challenging. So team is always first. Team can be 392 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:03,040 Speaker 1: repeat founder. Teams can be individuals who have domain expertise 393 00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:06,720 Speaker 1: that's outsized. UM. In a unique perspective like we talked about. 394 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 1: TAM is the other one, right, Like, what is the 395 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:13,080 Speaker 1: total addressable market that you're going after? Um, you know, 396 00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:15,200 Speaker 1: if you're launching a game only in New Zealand, I'm 397 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:17,720 Speaker 1: probably not your guy, you know, Like it's just too 398 00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:20,400 Speaker 1: small of a market. You know. We have to return 399 00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:25,000 Speaker 1: you know, our fund to fifty five million dollars three 400 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:27,399 Speaker 1: times over, right, So I'm looking for a big market. 401 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:31,239 Speaker 1: We're gonna inevitably own ten percent of that company, you know, 402 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:33,879 Speaker 1: so that means you gotta be a five million dollar outcome. 403 00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:37,359 Speaker 1: There has to be a massive market there, um, you know. 404 00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:40,960 Speaker 1: And I think those are the top two. If I 405 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:44,440 Speaker 1: were to think about, you know, a third component at 406 00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:48,760 Speaker 1: the earliest stages, um, it would probably have to be 407 00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:54,639 Speaker 1: past experience, right, what allows you to pull this off? Right, 408 00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:57,160 Speaker 1: whether it's you see a lot of people hiring out 409 00:22:57,160 --> 00:22:59,280 Speaker 1: of Facebook and Google because they think there are companies 410 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:00,920 Speaker 1: that have you know, do it well, or you see 411 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:03,640 Speaker 1: them come out of a successful startler, your track record, 412 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:06,840 Speaker 1: and we invest in the the first time founders. But track record, 413 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:13,680 Speaker 1: to me, is not necessarily a determinant of future success, 414 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:18,919 Speaker 1: but it's a ingredient in the overall recipe that allows 415 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:23,639 Speaker 1: you to pull off what is inevitably an incredibly challenging feat. 416 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:26,880 Speaker 1: What are some of those indicates as the first time 417 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:30,679 Speaker 1: founder that you might fund that says your path, you know, 418 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:35,040 Speaker 1: gives you validity with regards to you know you can 419 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:42,960 Speaker 1: do this thing. Yeah, Um, it's you know, I refer 420 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:47,440 Speaker 1: to it a lot as um you know, founder company fit. Right. 421 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:49,840 Speaker 1: So I came out of working in mobile and I 422 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:52,679 Speaker 1: worked in gaming, and my first company was mobile gaming. Like, 423 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:54,640 Speaker 1: you know, I hadn't done a startup, but I've spent 424 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:57,240 Speaker 1: years of Microsoft. I've worked at a bunch of startups, 425 00:23:57,520 --> 00:23:59,680 Speaker 1: and that was a key contributor, right, Like some people 426 00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:01,680 Speaker 1: tell me I came out of Facebook, Like you're the 427 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:05,320 Speaker 1: eighteen thousand employee working on like a non meaningful product, 428 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:08,080 Speaker 1: But like, were you the lead designer on I G 429 00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:10,600 Speaker 1: Like that's different, right, And so you kind of have 430 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:14,040 Speaker 1: to know what somebody was really doing. Um. And that's 431 00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:17,000 Speaker 1: where if you're a first time founder, it's like what 432 00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:19,439 Speaker 1: is that unique inside? Right? You might be at a 433 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:22,800 Speaker 1: company like a salesforce and say we do these three 434 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:26,399 Speaker 1: things really well, but there's a part over here that 435 00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:30,959 Speaker 1: everybody's ignoring. And because we're generating billions that can be 436 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:33,560 Speaker 1: a hundred million dollar revenue run rate business that can 437 00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:36,080 Speaker 1: get us to a billion dollar valuation. Like I'm gonna 438 00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:38,120 Speaker 1: pick this piece off and this is why, and this 439 00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:43,120 Speaker 1: is the platform that I've worked on. UM So that's 440 00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:44,639 Speaker 1: you know, we look for those like what are the 441 00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:48,600 Speaker 1: unique insights you have? What is your expertise in your network? 442 00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:51,760 Speaker 1: Your insight that allows you to to to see around 443 00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:54,399 Speaker 1: the corner that nobody else has seen. And if you 444 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:57,040 Speaker 1: have that, then you then have to surround themselves like 445 00:24:57,200 --> 00:24:59,920 Speaker 1: being a great found like the journey of a found 446 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:02,560 Speaker 1: or in a first time founder. Everybody's the first time 447 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:06,840 Speaker 1: founder at some point in time, and so what you 448 00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:11,840 Speaker 1: look for somebody who's highly coachable because you can you know, 449 00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:17,639 Speaker 1: think about the sports analogy, but the NFL combine. You 450 00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:19,560 Speaker 1: might be able to jump really high, you might be 451 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:21,800 Speaker 1: able to bench a lot, you might be able to 452 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:26,240 Speaker 1: you know, max out on your reps, but are you 453 00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:30,000 Speaker 1: going to be great team leader? Are you going to 454 00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:32,800 Speaker 1: be able to read defenses? Like what is your intuition? 455 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:34,760 Speaker 1: And so everything that we do there's an art and 456 00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:39,800 Speaker 1: a science to it, and so but I think about founders, 457 00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 1: you might be a great product person. You might be 458 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:46,879 Speaker 1: a great salesperson. Um, you might have a unique insight, 459 00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:49,600 Speaker 1: but there's a ton about leading a business you don't know. 460 00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:51,440 Speaker 1: So you can be a great founder in a great 461 00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:56,159 Speaker 1: entrepreneur without being a great CEO. In the journey that 462 00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 1: someone's willing to go on during this process is how 463 00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:02,640 Speaker 1: do you go from a good founder or a great 464 00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:06,680 Speaker 1: founder to a great CEO. And we've seen the biggest 465 00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:08,600 Speaker 1: companies in the world, the best companies of the world, 466 00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:11,720 Speaker 1: their CEO is mature. Right, Zuck couldn't get on stage 467 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:14,040 Speaker 1: at one point in time and give a presentation. Fine, 468 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:19,080 Speaker 1: now gates same thing, right, Um, basis you knew when 469 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:20,680 Speaker 1: to call it a day and transition off to a 470 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:23,280 Speaker 1: chairman role and leave the CEO. Right. And so they 471 00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:26,760 Speaker 1: went from great founders to becoming great CEOs. And that's 472 00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:29,280 Speaker 1: a path and a journey that that that takes years 473 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:31,439 Speaker 1: of you know, refining and so so I look at 474 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:33,720 Speaker 1: coach ability as one of the key factors for us. 475 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:36,000 Speaker 1: If somebody is the first time founder, that they're willing 476 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 1: to learn that they have a that they want to 477 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:39,840 Speaker 1: get better at this craft. They just don't want to 478 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:43,280 Speaker 1: win in the business, right they actually have business goals 479 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:46,440 Speaker 1: that they want to get to and they understand that 480 00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:48,320 Speaker 1: the personal growth and development leads them to work that 481 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:52,880 Speaker 1: as well. You know, you're also a founder, as you mentioned, um, 482 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:55,760 Speaker 1: and you're somewhat you know, I would say Mary to 483 00:26:55,880 --> 00:27:00,520 Speaker 1: particular verticals, you know, sports, gaming, you know, media, fitness, UM, 484 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:04,480 Speaker 1: what you need? Value? Do you believe you provide founders 485 00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:07,440 Speaker 1: in these spaces because you know, again you're also a founder, 486 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:13,520 Speaker 1: but as a VC, what value you provide? Yeah? So 487 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:17,560 Speaker 1: every founder is great at something and there's areas of 488 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:22,320 Speaker 1: improvement and I was no different. And so what I 489 00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:25,159 Speaker 1: try to work with founders on is where do you 490 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:27,360 Speaker 1: need to help? Like? What what are the things right? 491 00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:30,800 Speaker 1: Like I hope in many of the cases that I'm 492 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:34,080 Speaker 1: not just a tactical component and another piece on the 493 00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:36,560 Speaker 1: chess board that they move around to help accelerate the business. 494 00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:39,040 Speaker 1: That's the case many times, and that's fine. We play 495 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:44,080 Speaker 1: that role. But you know, how do you build a 496 00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:47,920 Speaker 1: good company culture? Right? Like? What does that mean for you? 497 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:50,879 Speaker 1: What are the values in the guiding lights and the 498 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:54,680 Speaker 1: principles that you're driving your organization towards. Like people don't 499 00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:56,080 Speaker 1: think about them. It's just like I need to hire 500 00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:58,359 Speaker 1: for a role. I need to fill a body. I 501 00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:00,600 Speaker 1: need an engineer, I need to just you know, I 502 00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:02,800 Speaker 1: need a product manager. I needed somebody is really good 503 00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:04,679 Speaker 1: to use your acquisition and then like run. But what 504 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:07,280 Speaker 1: are the principles of the guiding lights behind that? Right? Um, 505 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:13,360 Speaker 1: In my third company, everybody's salary was known by everybody else, transparent. 506 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:17,080 Speaker 1: Everybody's equity ownership was transparent. Every decision, every meeting we had. 507 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:23,240 Speaker 1: Everybody knew everything, and we fostered. There was no jealousy, 508 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:26,959 Speaker 1: there was no who's making more? Why? It was all benchmarked. 509 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:31,640 Speaker 1: It was all standard performance. And so you know, PTO, 510 00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:34,560 Speaker 1: do you have unlimited vacation policy? Why? How do you 511 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:37,199 Speaker 1: make sure you don't suffer burnout? What are you doing? Like, 512 00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:39,960 Speaker 1: there's so many things that we try to work with 513 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:44,760 Speaker 1: founders on to create a better company because oftentimes they're 514 00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:49,160 Speaker 1: so focused on the product, the sales, the outcomes that 515 00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:52,840 Speaker 1: if you ignore the underlying components of business, you're building 516 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:54,560 Speaker 1: a house of cards that's gonna crumble at the point 517 00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:59,280 Speaker 1: in time. So you know that's from a founder perspective. 518 00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:01,800 Speaker 1: You know, how do you negotiate M and A deals? 519 00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:03,360 Speaker 1: I worked in them and a before right like what 520 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:05,840 Speaker 1: are evaluations whether standard benchmarks like we talked to publicly 521 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:08,040 Speaker 1: traded companies, we talked to private companies, We talked to 522 00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:11,000 Speaker 1: head funds, We talk to other startups in the ecosystem, 523 00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:14,840 Speaker 1: knowledge sharing expertise. Our LPs are all strategic to US 524 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:20,080 Speaker 1: public companies, high networth individuals, their protein owners. Whatever deals 525 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:23,320 Speaker 1: we're doing, we want to be able to bring value 526 00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:27,560 Speaker 1: from ourselves and from our network, our investors in that 527 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:32,560 Speaker 1: comprehensive package. Hopefully as a board member or a board observer. 528 00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:36,000 Speaker 1: Often times if we don't take the board seat, will 529 00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:37,800 Speaker 1: add value. And so we try to do it on 530 00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:39,720 Speaker 1: personal level and try to do it on a fund level. 531 00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:42,880 Speaker 1: We work really hard for and with our founders. We 532 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:45,360 Speaker 1: consider ourselves part of the extended team and whatever we 533 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:48,040 Speaker 1: need to do that we can to support that business, 534 00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:50,880 Speaker 1: we spent time. My entire Friday is always dedicated to 535 00:29:50,920 --> 00:30:07,760 Speaker 1: my perfor Black Tech. Green Money is and production to 536 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:11,040 Speaker 1: Black the Afro Tech on the Black Effect Podcast Network 537 00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:14,120 Speaker 1: and i Heeart Media. It's produced by Morgan Dubonn and 538 00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:18,120 Speaker 1: me Will Lucas, with additional production support by Love Beach 539 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:21,760 Speaker 1: and Russa Lewis Special Thank you to Michael Davis, Sadam 540 00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:24,880 Speaker 1: Simson's the carsa von Yon you know like the Whine. Yes, 541 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:27,920 Speaker 1: that's his real name. Learn more about my guests and 542 00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:30,920 Speaker 1: other tech thissft's innovators at afro tech dot com. The 543 00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:33,120 Speaker 1: video version of this episode would drop the Black Tech 544 00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:37,240 Speaker 1: Green Money on YouTube, so tap in enjoying Black Tech 545 00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:39,760 Speaker 1: Green Money. Leave us a five star rating on iTunes. 546 00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:51,040 Speaker 1: Gonna Beat Your Money, Piece and Love Else Are The 547 00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:56,280 Speaker 1: first Black Infact Podcast Festival was happening Sunday, August in Brooklyn, 548 00:30:56,320 --> 00:31:01,000 Speaker 1: New York. Tickets available right now black Effect dot Com 549 00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:04,920 Speaker 1: Forward Slash Podcast Festival and live podcast will be on 550 00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:07,640 Speaker 1: stage from your favorite show. You get to be an audience. 551 00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:09,400 Speaker 1: We get to do our thing on the stage. I'm 552 00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:11,920 Speaker 1: so excited for this. It's the first time I've ever 553 00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:14,520 Speaker 1: been able to do this in front of a live audience. 554 00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:18,280 Speaker 1: So please be in the crowd being an audience. Clap 555 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:23,600 Speaker 1: when it's appropriate. Oh and I when it's appropriate. Come 556 00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:25,640 Speaker 1: check us out. Horrible this, this this, this is gonna be there. 557 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:27,840 Speaker 1: Eighty five show is gonna be there, All the smoke 558 00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:30,600 Speaker 1: is gonna be there. Get tickets today at Black Effect 559 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:34,680 Speaker 1: dot Com. Forward Slash Podcast Festival were in the house.