Speaker 1: Our fourth episode this season, Children of the Mist, took
Speaker 1: us to aute rowa, New Zealand, where a law called
Speaker 1: the tey Uuwera Act recognized a rainforest as its own
Speaker 1: legal entity. Today, we're bringing you a bonus episode so
Speaker 1: that you can hear more from Tarmati Kruger, the chair
Speaker 1: of the Board of Humans that act as the legal
Speaker 1: guardians of Teyuduwara. If you haven't listened already, the full
Speaker 1: episode goes into some of the history of how tou Hoi,
Speaker 1: the Maori tribe who called Teyuuwera home, had their land
Speaker 1: violently and illegally confiscated during colonization. Unlike the New Zealand government,
Speaker 1: which views land as property, to hoy believe that Teyuuwera
Speaker 1: is their ancestor. In that episode, how as a two
Speaker 1: Hi negotiator, Tarmaiti Kruger helped to introduce an indigenous understanding
Speaker 1: of nature into New Zealand law. Today, we're sharing with
Speaker 1: you more of i interview with Kruger. You'll also hear
Speaker 1: a bit later on from Kirsty Luke, the CEO of
Speaker 1: the Twohwii Tribal Authority, who joined us for the interview
Speaker 1: and gave her insights into the Teyutawarra Act and climate change.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to Damages. I'm Lindel Rowdins.
Speaker 2: I had heard about rights of nature for a while,
Speaker 2: but right when I was starting to dig into it
Speaker 2: a little bit more, this great documentary came out. It's
Speaker 2: called Invisible Hand. It's the third film from directors Joshua
Speaker 2: Prabanik and Melissa Troutman and executive producer Mark Ruffalo. It's
Speaker 2: one seven Best Documentary Words and received laurels from twenty
Speaker 2: two international film festivals. It's an excellent deep dive on
Speaker 2: the subject of rights of nature. If you want to
Speaker 2: dig into it even more after listening to this series,
Speaker 2: I highly highly recommend it. It's a paradigm shifting documentary
Speaker 2: that does not leave viewers in total despair, but actually
Speaker 2: provides some inspirational solutions, strategies and stories that will move
Speaker 2: you to take action where you live. If you haven't
Speaker 2: seen Invisible Hand, you're missing out. Go to Invisible handfilm
Speaker 2: dot com for more on where to watch and how
Speaker 2: to support this great work.
Speaker 1: We originally looked into Tayo to Where this season because
Speaker 1: it's considered one of the first examples in the world
Speaker 1: of rights of nature. But as you'll hear Talma Ti
Speaker 1: Kruger sees the Act as being a bit different.
Speaker 3: My name's Tarmati. I'm the chair all the theater would aboard,
Speaker 3: and I'm also the chair of the two where tribal authority.
Speaker 3: I think perhaps the better way of getting an appreciation
Speaker 3: of the picture of that first purpose of the Act
Speaker 3: is to realize that after one hundred and eighty years
Speaker 3: of colonization in Alpero in New Zealand, to Rouye, that
Speaker 3: is a tribal group, is one of a number of
Speaker 3: tribal groups that were afflicted by colonization, where primarily we
Speaker 3: suffered prejudice and injustice and loss. When we had the
Speaker 3: opportunity to look at resolving a settlement with the Crown
Speaker 3: or with the New Zealand government, it was really based
Speaker 3: on the need for justice, but that quality which the
Speaker 3: Crown is unable to deliver to all indigenous people. So
Speaker 3: the settlement that we negotiated with the Crown was for
Speaker 3: the return of our entire homeland which had been confiscated
Speaker 3: by the Crown and had left my people destitute for
Speaker 3: one hundred years or more. So, the connection. The purpose
Speaker 3: of the act, which is the connection of the two
Speaker 3: where people with third weather, is around our identity, our
Speaker 3: sense of belonging, our connection with the land, which our
Speaker 3: identity and our sense of belonging all comes from the
Speaker 3: very culture, from our literature to cuisine, to our art
Speaker 3: and culture, to our language, to our traditions and customs.
Speaker 3: They all come from our homeland, from the land. So
Speaker 3: the purpose is to retrieve that sense of belonging, and
Speaker 3: that is we're justice lies for ourselves.
Speaker 1: The Tayoa Werreat became law in twenty fourteen, but Tamati
Speaker 1: Kruger goes on to explain how fachu Hoi, the process
Speaker 1: of reconnecting with their homeland after more than a century
Speaker 1: of dispossession hasn't happened overnight.
Speaker 3: I believe it has started the most sincere form of
Speaker 3: healing and connection, we predicted that it would take us
Speaker 3: no less than two generations, approximately forty years to see
Speaker 3: the signs of the return and the restoration of our culture,
Speaker 3: of our sense of belonging and of connection. And so
Speaker 3: we are only ten years now into that journey, but
Speaker 3: already we are getting a full sight of what we
Speaker 3: have to do and the journey is most difficult, isn't
Speaker 3: it for all in genous people, because we are exploring
Speaker 3: the depth of hurt, the depth of damage and lost
Speaker 3: to us or this is our journey that are beyond words,
Speaker 3: and that all indigenous people around the world have to
Speaker 3: confront and amount what we have lost, what we cannot
Speaker 3: restore and repatriate, and what we have to design and create.
Speaker 1: While the Tayota Water Act is considered by many to
Speaker 1: be an example of the legal approach known as rights
Speaker 1: of nature, to HOI have a different way of understanding
Speaker 1: their relationship with the land.
Speaker 3: We don't think describing it as rights is helpful in
Speaker 3: our situation. To who believe that they are born with responsibilities,
Speaker 3: not rights. We are born into a family that of
Speaker 3: the environment that involves nature in our creation stories. There
Speaker 3: is no space, no regard for ownership, entitlement or rights.
Speaker 3: Where we are born as part of nature. It is
Speaker 3: our point of origin and our point of return. As
Speaker 3: to where people, we accept that we have obligations and
Speaker 3: responsibilities not only to ourselves, but to how we live
Speaker 3: where we live, and that it is our duty in
Speaker 3: order for us to progress in advance as human beings,
Speaker 3: we must know our place in nature. We don't see
Speaker 3: that our struggle is a struggle of rights. It's rather
Speaker 3: a struggle to restore our sense of responsibility to ourselves
Speaker 3: and to nature we don't own. We don't own this land,
Speaker 3: but we live with it, and our behavior and what
Speaker 3: we believe in and what we sense will determine how
Speaker 3: well we live with the land.
Speaker 1: My next question was about what the two Hi approach
Speaker 1: to nature might mean at a time when the climate
Speaker 1: is changing. And for this question, Kirsty Luke, the CEO
Speaker 1: of the Two Hawaii Tribal Authority, gave an incredible answer,
Speaker 1: building on what Kruger had just explained.
Speaker 4: I would say at the beginning of your questions was
Speaker 4: one around the statutory purpose of Third Reader Act, which
Speaker 4: is to strengthen the connection two where we're third water.
Speaker 5: That is the first time or use of that term
Speaker 5: in New Zealand legislation. What we were intending by that
Speaker 5: was to very deliberately disrupt the idea of property rights,
Speaker 5: of ownership, that being the thing that is determining breeding,
Speaker 5: even one's attitude and entitled view of papasuniku of the
Speaker 5: planet of land. So it's a small word in whatever
Speaker 5: are the one hundred pages of that piece of legislation,
Speaker 5: But it is the mighty word, because the word we
Speaker 5: are using to undo the harsh damage of capitalism in
Speaker 5: the hearts and minds of our children, and our families
Speaker 5: and our communities. So our fear of climate change is
Speaker 5: not for the land. The climate is evolving in a
Speaker 5: way that is making it inhabitable for humans. But I
Speaker 5: doubt the land itself is as distressed as we are.
Speaker 5: We don't worry for the land. We All we see
Speaker 5: is that we have lost, through our practices and our
Speaker 5: behaviors and our care of land, that we have lost
Speaker 5: the right to live here. So our problem is a
Speaker 5: people problem. Our problem is a human challenge. It's a
Speaker 5: humanity challenge. And that's why we and the medicine as
Speaker 5: parvency has described as one of responsibility, of reconnection, of care,
Speaker 5: not so that we can turn that care into a
Speaker 5: currency called money and somehow pretend to each other that
Speaker 5: we can survive fires and floods, but that our collective
Speaker 5: click care might address the greed, the greed that we're growing,
Speaker 5: that the must have entitlement, that insatiable, we deficit, thinking
Speaker 5: that we just don't have enough when we do, that's
Speaker 5: maybe not a great answer to climate change to make
Speaker 5: less breed humans of it. That's all I've got for you.
Speaker 1: No, you really got to the hut of the issue.
Speaker 3: We're proud to be to where we're proud of the
Speaker 3: customs and the traditions and the heritage that tells us
Speaker 3: that we are from nature, we're part of nature, and
Speaker 3: that we have responsibility. That is our salvation and that
Speaker 3: is our future. This is not something we understand is
Speaker 3: unique to where but to all indigenous people. And there
Speaker 3: was a time in Western culture where it too was
Speaker 3: their tradition, was their custom until they lost their way.
Speaker 3: They now rely on the indigenous people to bring back
Speaker 3: a heart memory of that because it's good for humanity
Speaker 3: and it's good for the planet that we're round. That
Speaker 3: we're blessed to be here. So you know, we are
Speaker 3: grateful to the millions of people around the world that
Speaker 3: dedicate their time, their intellect in raising gratitude, in raising
Speaker 3: appreciation by all people and government, that we desperately need
Speaker 3: to change the way we live, our lifestyle, our livelihood,
Speaker 3: our values in order to be better humans.
Speaker 1: That's all for this episode. Next week. Our season concludes
Speaker 1: with a look at how industry is responding to the
Speaker 1: push for rights of nature. So come back for that.
Speaker 1: I'm Lindel Rowlins. Thank you for listening.
Speaker 2: Damages is an original Critical Frequency production. This episode was
Speaker 2: written and reported by The Rollins. Our editor and senior
Speaker 2: producer is Sarah Ventry. Sound designed by Ray Pang, mixing
Speaker 2: and mastering by Mark Bush. Our fact checker is Woo
Speaker 2: dan Yan. Our First Amendment attorney is James Wheaton of
Speaker 2: the First Amendment Project. Artwork for the show is drawn
Speaker 2: by Matt Fleming. Our theme song this season is Bird
Speaker 2: in the Hand by Fornown. If you like the show,
Speaker 2: please remember to rate and review it wherever you're listening
Speaker 2: and share it with your friends. Thanks a lot, and
Speaker 2: we'll see you next time.