WEBVTT - Responsibilities Not Rights: A Tuhoe Perspective 0:00:11.840 --> 0:00:15.319 Our fourth episode this season, Children of the Mist, took 0:00:15.400 --> 0:00:18.320 us to aute rowa, New Zealand, where a law called 0:00:18.320 --> 0:00:22.079 the tey Uuwera Act recognized a rainforest as its own 0:00:22.239 --> 0:00:26.319 legal entity. Today, we're bringing you a bonus episode so 0:00:26.400 --> 0:00:29.560 that you can hear more from Tarmati Kruger, the chair 0:00:29.640 --> 0:00:32.120 of the Board of Humans that act as the legal 0:00:32.120 --> 0:00:37.200 guardians of Teyuduwara. If you haven't listened already, the full 0:00:37.280 --> 0:00:40.360 episode goes into some of the history of how tou Hoi, 0:00:40.800 --> 0:00:44.280 the Maori tribe who called Teyuuwera home, had their land 0:00:44.440 --> 0:00:50.640 violently and illegally confiscated during colonization. Unlike the New Zealand government, 0:00:50.880 --> 0:00:55.280 which views land as property, to hoy believe that Teyuuwera 0:00:55.440 --> 0:01:01.080 is their ancestor. In that episode, how as a two 0:01:01.120 --> 0:01:05.919 Hi negotiator, Tarmaiti Kruger helped to introduce an indigenous understanding 0:01:05.920 --> 0:01:10.160 of nature into New Zealand law. Today, we're sharing with 0:01:10.200 --> 0:01:13.160 you more of i interview with Kruger. You'll also hear 0:01:13.280 --> 0:01:16.080 a bit later on from Kirsty Luke, the CEO of 0:01:16.080 --> 0:01:19.280 the Twohwii Tribal Authority, who joined us for the interview 0:01:19.319 --> 0:01:24.320 and gave her insights into the Teyutawarra Act and climate change. 0:01:25.160 --> 0:01:28.560 Welcome back to Damages. I'm Lindel Rowdins. 0:01:41.680 --> 0:01:43.839 I had heard about rights of nature for a while, 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:46.240 but right when I was starting to dig into it 0:01:46.280 --> 0:01:49.280 a little bit more, this great documentary came out. It's 0:01:49.280 --> 0:01:53.800 called Invisible Hand. It's the third film from directors Joshua 0:01:53.920 --> 0:01:58.320 Prabanik and Melissa Troutman and executive producer Mark Ruffalo. It's 0:01:58.320 --> 0:02:02.480 one seven Best Documentary Words and received laurels from twenty 0:02:02.560 --> 0:02:07.120 two international film festivals. It's an excellent deep dive on 0:02:07.160 --> 0:02:09.000 the subject of rights of nature. If you want to 0:02:09.040 --> 0:02:12.320 dig into it even more after listening to this series, 0:02:12.480 --> 0:02:16.679 I highly highly recommend it. It's a paradigm shifting documentary 0:02:16.840 --> 0:02:20.760 that does not leave viewers in total despair, but actually 0:02:20.800 --> 0:02:25.600 provides some inspirational solutions, strategies and stories that will move 0:02:25.720 --> 0:02:28.600 you to take action where you live. If you haven't 0:02:28.600 --> 0:02:33.120 seen Invisible Hand, you're missing out. Go to Invisible handfilm 0:02:33.360 --> 0:02:36.679 dot com for more on where to watch and how 0:02:36.720 --> 0:02:38.760 to support this great work. 0:02:43.440 --> 0:02:46.720 We originally looked into Tayo to Where this season because 0:02:46.840 --> 0:02:49.519 it's considered one of the first examples in the world 0:02:49.560 --> 0:02:52.920 of rights of nature. But as you'll hear Talma Ti 0:02:53.000 --> 0:02:55.840 Kruger sees the Act as being a bit different. 0:02:56.880 --> 0:03:01.240 My name's Tarmati. I'm the chair all the theater would aboard, 0:03:01.280 --> 0:03:06.120 and I'm also the chair of the two where tribal authority. 0:03:06.520 --> 0:03:10.040 I think perhaps the better way of getting an appreciation 0:03:10.200 --> 0:03:15.000 of the picture of that first purpose of the Act 0:03:15.320 --> 0:03:18.520 is to realize that after one hundred and eighty years 0:03:18.600 --> 0:03:23.760 of colonization in Alpero in New Zealand, to Rouye, that 0:03:23.960 --> 0:03:28.240 is a tribal group, is one of a number of 0:03:28.320 --> 0:03:35.280 tribal groups that were afflicted by colonization, where primarily we 0:03:35.360 --> 0:03:40.080 suffered prejudice and injustice and loss. When we had the 0:03:40.160 --> 0:03:46.480 opportunity to look at resolving a settlement with the Crown 0:03:46.640 --> 0:03:49.240 or with the New Zealand government, it was really based 0:03:49.400 --> 0:03:53.440 on the need for justice, but that quality which the 0:03:53.480 --> 0:03:58.040 Crown is unable to deliver to all indigenous people. So 0:03:58.120 --> 0:04:03.560 the settlement that we negotiated with the Crown was for 0:04:03.640 --> 0:04:10.320 the return of our entire homeland which had been confiscated 0:04:10.520 --> 0:04:16.279 by the Crown and had left my people destitute for 0:04:16.600 --> 0:04:22.239 one hundred years or more. So, the connection. The purpose 0:04:22.279 --> 0:04:24.560 of the act, which is the connection of the two 0:04:24.560 --> 0:04:29.080 where people with third weather, is around our identity, our 0:04:29.160 --> 0:04:33.800 sense of belonging, our connection with the land, which our 0:04:34.000 --> 0:04:38.520 identity and our sense of belonging all comes from the 0:04:38.640 --> 0:04:43.800 very culture, from our literature to cuisine, to our art 0:04:43.880 --> 0:04:48.200 and culture, to our language, to our traditions and customs. 0:04:48.680 --> 0:04:53.160 They all come from our homeland, from the land. So 0:04:53.720 --> 0:04:59.440 the purpose is to retrieve that sense of belonging, and 0:04:59.520 --> 0:05:02.919 that is we're justice lies for ourselves. 0:05:03.120 --> 0:05:07.880 The Tayoa Werreat became law in twenty fourteen, but Tamati 0:05:07.960 --> 0:05:11.160 Kruger goes on to explain how fachu Hoi, the process 0:05:11.240 --> 0:05:14.719 of reconnecting with their homeland after more than a century 0:05:14.760 --> 0:05:17.320 of dispossession hasn't happened overnight. 0:05:17.880 --> 0:05:21.919 I believe it has started the most sincere form of 0:05:22.080 --> 0:05:27.240 healing and connection, we predicted that it would take us 0:05:27.400 --> 0:05:32.680 no less than two generations, approximately forty years to see 0:05:32.720 --> 0:05:39.320 the signs of the return and the restoration of our culture, 0:05:39.560 --> 0:05:44.920 of our sense of belonging and of connection. And so 0:05:45.000 --> 0:05:49.440 we are only ten years now into that journey, but 0:05:49.680 --> 0:05:54.120 already we are getting a full sight of what we 0:05:54.240 --> 0:05:59.000 have to do and the journey is most difficult, isn't 0:05:59.000 --> 0:06:03.159 it for all in genous people, because we are exploring 0:06:03.960 --> 0:06:08.520 the depth of hurt, the depth of damage and lost 0:06:08.640 --> 0:06:13.720 to us or this is our journey that are beyond words, 0:06:15.400 --> 0:06:19.279 and that all indigenous people around the world have to 0:06:19.400 --> 0:06:25.919 confront and amount what we have lost, what we cannot 0:06:26.120 --> 0:06:31.640 restore and repatriate, and what we have to design and create. 0:06:32.600 --> 0:06:35.400 While the Tayota Water Act is considered by many to 0:06:35.440 --> 0:06:38.400 be an example of the legal approach known as rights 0:06:38.400 --> 0:06:41.960 of nature, to HOI have a different way of understanding 0:06:42.000 --> 0:06:43.559 their relationship with the land. 0:06:44.360 --> 0:06:48.960 We don't think describing it as rights is helpful in 0:06:49.080 --> 0:06:54.440 our situation. To who believe that they are born with responsibilities, 0:06:54.560 --> 0:07:00.240 not rights. We are born into a family that of 0:07:01.080 --> 0:07:07.320 the environment that involves nature in our creation stories. There 0:07:07.400 --> 0:07:13.160 is no space, no regard for ownership, entitlement or rights. 0:07:13.440 --> 0:07:17.160 Where we are born as part of nature. It is 0:07:17.720 --> 0:07:21.880 our point of origin and our point of return. As 0:07:21.920 --> 0:07:26.000 to where people, we accept that we have obligations and 0:07:26.120 --> 0:07:31.200 responsibilities not only to ourselves, but to how we live 0:07:31.480 --> 0:07:34.520 where we live, and that it is our duty in 0:07:34.600 --> 0:07:39.160 order for us to progress in advance as human beings, 0:07:39.240 --> 0:07:43.640 we must know our place in nature. We don't see 0:07:44.240 --> 0:07:48.640 that our struggle is a struggle of rights. It's rather 0:07:49.040 --> 0:07:56.760 a struggle to restore our sense of responsibility to ourselves 0:07:56.880 --> 0:08:01.240 and to nature we don't own. We don't own this land, 0:08:01.520 --> 0:08:07.520 but we live with it, and our behavior and what 0:08:07.600 --> 0:08:12.800 we believe in and what we sense will determine how 0:08:12.920 --> 0:08:14.480 well we live with the land. 0:08:15.440 --> 0:08:17.880 My next question was about what the two Hi approach 0:08:17.920 --> 0:08:20.120 to nature might mean at a time when the climate 0:08:20.200 --> 0:08:23.760 is changing. And for this question, Kirsty Luke, the CEO 0:08:23.960 --> 0:08:27.480 of the Two Hawaii Tribal Authority, gave an incredible answer, 0:08:27.640 --> 0:08:29.760 building on what Kruger had just explained. 0:08:30.640 --> 0:08:33.760 I would say at the beginning of your questions was 0:08:33.800 --> 0:08:38.640 one around the statutory purpose of Third Reader Act, which 0:08:38.720 --> 0:08:41.600 is to strengthen the connection two where we're third water. 0:08:44.120 --> 0:08:49.760 That is the first time or use of that term 0:08:49.920 --> 0:08:53.480 in New Zealand legislation. What we were intending by that 0:08:54.040 --> 0:09:00.160 was to very deliberately disrupt the idea of property rights, 0:09:00.559 --> 0:09:05.120 of ownership, that being the thing that is determining breeding, 0:09:05.360 --> 0:09:14.160 even one's attitude and entitled view of papasuniku of the 0:09:14.200 --> 0:09:19.720 planet of land. So it's a small word in whatever 0:09:19.760 --> 0:09:22.319 are the one hundred pages of that piece of legislation, 0:09:23.080 --> 0:09:25.640 But it is the mighty word, because the word we 0:09:25.679 --> 0:09:31.560 are using to undo the harsh damage of capitalism in 0:09:31.559 --> 0:09:34.439 the hearts and minds of our children, and our families 0:09:34.520 --> 0:09:39.560 and our communities. So our fear of climate change is 0:09:39.600 --> 0:09:42.760 not for the land. The climate is evolving in a 0:09:42.800 --> 0:09:47.360 way that is making it inhabitable for humans. But I 0:09:47.480 --> 0:09:51.040 doubt the land itself is as distressed as we are. 0:09:52.320 --> 0:09:56.840 We don't worry for the land. We All we see 0:09:57.160 --> 0:10:00.319 is that we have lost, through our practices and our 0:10:00.360 --> 0:10:03.960 behaviors and our care of land, that we have lost 0:10:04.040 --> 0:10:09.440 the right to live here. So our problem is a 0:10:09.480 --> 0:10:12.720 people problem. Our problem is a human challenge. It's a 0:10:12.840 --> 0:10:17.400 humanity challenge. And that's why we and the medicine as 0:10:17.440 --> 0:10:23.280 parvency has described as one of responsibility, of reconnection, of care, 0:10:23.720 --> 0:10:27.120 not so that we can turn that care into a 0:10:27.200 --> 0:10:31.880 currency called money and somehow pretend to each other that 0:10:31.960 --> 0:10:36.800 we can survive fires and floods, but that our collective 0:10:36.920 --> 0:10:42.440 click care might address the greed, the greed that we're growing, 0:10:42.520 --> 0:10:48.840 that the must have entitlement, that insatiable, we deficit, thinking 0:10:48.880 --> 0:10:51.800 that we just don't have enough when we do, that's 0:10:51.840 --> 0:10:54.720 maybe not a great answer to climate change to make 0:10:55.480 --> 0:10:58.840 less breed humans of it. That's all I've got for you. 0:10:58.880 --> 0:11:02.080 No, you really got to the hut of the issue. 0:11:02.240 --> 0:11:07.079 We're proud to be to where we're proud of the 0:11:07.120 --> 0:11:11.760 customs and the traditions and the heritage that tells us 0:11:12.360 --> 0:11:16.679 that we are from nature, we're part of nature, and 0:11:16.720 --> 0:11:22.560 that we have responsibility. That is our salvation and that 0:11:22.760 --> 0:11:28.240 is our future. This is not something we understand is 0:11:28.400 --> 0:11:33.480 unique to where but to all indigenous people. And there 0:11:33.600 --> 0:11:38.600 was a time in Western culture where it too was 0:11:38.640 --> 0:11:44.400 their tradition, was their custom until they lost their way. 0:11:44.720 --> 0:11:49.319 They now rely on the indigenous people to bring back 0:11:49.880 --> 0:11:57.000 a heart memory of that because it's good for humanity 0:11:57.160 --> 0:12:00.960 and it's good for the planet that we're round. That 0:12:01.640 --> 0:12:05.360 we're blessed to be here. So you know, we are 0:12:05.800 --> 0:12:10.199 grateful to the millions of people around the world that 0:12:10.360 --> 0:12:17.080 dedicate their time, their intellect in raising gratitude, in raising 0:12:17.280 --> 0:12:23.079 appreciation by all people and government, that we desperately need 0:12:23.120 --> 0:12:27.439 to change the way we live, our lifestyle, our livelihood, 0:12:27.720 --> 0:12:32.720 our values in order to be better humans. 0:12:36.679 --> 0:12:40.040 That's all for this episode. Next week. Our season concludes 0:12:40.080 --> 0:12:42.440 with a look at how industry is responding to the 0:12:42.480 --> 0:12:45.080 push for rights of nature. So come back for that. 0:12:45.960 --> 0:12:48.120 I'm Lindel Rowlins. Thank you for listening. 0:12:53.840 --> 0:12:58.520 Damages is an original Critical Frequency production. This episode was 0:12:58.559 --> 0:13:02.600 written and reported by The Rollins. Our editor and senior 0:13:02.640 --> 0:13:07.080 producer is Sarah Ventry. Sound designed by Ray Pang, mixing 0:13:07.120 --> 0:13:11.040 and mastering by Mark Bush. Our fact checker is Woo 0:13:11.120 --> 0:13:15.640 dan Yan. Our First Amendment attorney is James Wheaton of 0:13:15.720 --> 0:13:19.280 the First Amendment Project. Artwork for the show is drawn 0:13:19.320 --> 0:13:22.920 by Matt Fleming. Our theme song this season is Bird 0:13:23.000 --> 0:13:26.160 in the Hand by Fornown. If you like the show, 0:13:26.200 --> 0:13:29.400 please remember to rate and review it wherever you're listening 0:13:29.880 --> 0:13:33.000 and share it with your friends. Thanks a lot, and 0:13:33.040 --> 0:13:34.120 we'll see you next time.