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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Mollie John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds and moms for liberty laws nearly every

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Speaker 1: race they were involved in.

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Speaker 2: We have such a great show for you today.

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Speaker 1: Inside Elections, Jacob Rubashkin talks about the hidden lessons from

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Speaker 1: the twenty twenty three election. Then we'll talk to George

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Speaker 1: Laws about new legislation to finally make Puerto Rico estate.

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Speaker 1: But first we have the Bulwarks. Charlie Sykes. Welcome back

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Speaker 1: to Fast Politics, the great Charlie Sykes.

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Speaker 3: Hey, it's good to be here, good to be anywhere.

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Speaker 4: Me too.

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Speaker 1: I just got your newsletter this morning. Morning Shots from

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Speaker 1: the Bulwark, that headline you're just scum.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, this is the debate we deserve. You know, I

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Speaker 3: was watching the debate last night, as I said, and

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Speaker 3: you know, I suppose I'm supposed to be watching for

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Speaker 3: all the nuance and the substance and you know who's

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Speaker 3: making this move on abortion or an on Ukraine, And

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Speaker 3: unfortunately I just got distracted by you know, asking you know,

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Speaker 3: what is what is Nikki heally gonna do? Is she

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Speaker 3: going to push Vivic into the locker, or is she

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Speaker 3: going to skewer him with a five inch heel because

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Speaker 3: the guy is such an insufferable prick. This is the

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Speaker 3: problem and the fact that five minutes ago anybody in

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Speaker 3: this country took him seriously as a plausible presidential candidate.

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Speaker 3: I mean it doesn't that say something about the times

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Speaker 3: we live in?

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Speaker 1: Obviously he's a complete joke, but there is a world

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Speaker 1: like I actually feel bad for you as like the

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Speaker 1: last of the normal Republicans.

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Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

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Speaker 3: Does that mean I relish You're pity?

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Speaker 2: Here's Nikki Haley.

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Speaker 1: She is actually a good candidate who could win a

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Speaker 1: general election, and there's no way she's going to get

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Speaker 1: the nomination.

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Speaker 3: No, there isn't. Actually, that was something else I was watching,

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Speaker 3: you know, thinking that if you're a normal, rational Republican

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Speaker 3: and you're watching this debate, and look, you know, I

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Speaker 3: have a lot of problems with Nikki Haley. Have read

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Speaker 3: a lot about her. She's made some should we say,

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Speaker 3: compromises in her life. But yes, true, if you're a

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Speaker 3: Republican and you're looking at her, you're thinking, who would

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Speaker 3: you rather go into twenty twenty four with? Behind NICKI

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Speaker 3: Haley or Donald Trump, and for all of her flaws,

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Speaker 3: think about what a superior candidate she would be. By

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Speaker 3: the way, just think about how our politics would be

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Speaker 3: transformed in the blink of an eye if you swapped

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Speaker 3: out Donald Trump for some just reasonably normal Republican like

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Speaker 3: Nicki Haley. But it's not gonna happen.

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Speaker 1: As you point out, it's interesting because it's like the

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Speaker 1: thing I think about is, I don't agree with her

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Speaker 1: on almost everything, but you could see her like people

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Speaker 1: voting for her because she's offering them something right, and

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Speaker 1: she's also just making some of those policies which I

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Speaker 1: don't agree with, sort of palatable for mainstream people.

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Speaker 3: Well. Also, look, I mean she's got some substance. She's

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Speaker 3: able to speak with a good deal of authority on

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Speaker 3: foreign affairs. You know, her discussion of Israeli Ukraine I

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Speaker 3: thought was really solid. When she first talked about, you know,

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Speaker 3: getting a compromise on abortion, I think people thought she

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Speaker 3: was dancing and dodging, but I think it actually sounded

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Speaker 3: more reasonable last night. Now, whether or not you can

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Speaker 3: sustain that in a campaign, I don't know. I think

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Speaker 3: it's kind of silly to engage in the who's the

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Speaker 3: winner and who's the loser in the debate, although clearly

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Speaker 3: Tim Scott was the loser and vivek make him made

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Speaker 3: himself a joke, and I thought that she did about

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Speaker 3: as well as she could. As long as we recognize

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Speaker 3: this is a attemptiontion debate that they're just going through

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Speaker 3: the motions right exactly. This is a debate among people

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Speaker 3: who either want to be vice president or want their

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Speaker 3: own podcast or something else because they're not going to

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Speaker 3: be the Republican nominee. And by the way, nobody seems

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Speaker 3: to care the fact Donald Trump just completely blows off

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Speaker 3: these debates, does not even show up, has no intention

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Speaker 3: of ever showing up. And I guess I'm old enough

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Speaker 3: to remember when that would be a thing. And it

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Speaker 3: doesn't even register. It's we completely normalize the fact that

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Speaker 3: he's off with Roseanne Barr who's having the irrational meltdown

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Speaker 3: at one of his rallies, and people go, yeah, okay,

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Speaker 3: so I'm thinking that Donald Trump is the big winner tonight. Yes, okay, hello, people,

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Speaker 3: just can we focus on the crazy for a moment.

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Speaker 3: I just I'm sorry a little PTSD.

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Speaker 1: You're right to bring this up, and I want to

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Speaker 1: ask you because you have actual experience with a Republican party.

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Speaker 1: I mean, isn't this sort of a sign of how

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Speaker 1: weak the party is that they have no power over

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Speaker 1: their front runner?

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Speaker 3: Oh? Absolutely. I mean it's just like Donald Trump on

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Speaker 3: an hourly basis giving Ronna McDaniel, Romney or whatever her

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Speaker 3: name is, now, giving her a noogie and just reminding

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Speaker 3: her that you know, I own you, I own you.

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Speaker 3: What you want to have another debate, Kim here, let's

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Speaker 3: try this again. No, it's Hlili eating. But also the

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Speaker 3: fact that you have all of these candidates on stage.

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Speaker 3: And I'm sorry, Molly, You'll know where I'm coming from

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Speaker 3: on all of this. But as I'm reading a lot

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Speaker 3: of the punditry, I'm thinking, have we forgotten what we're

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Speaker 3: actually talking about? Here? The firm running candidate for President

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Speaker 3: of the United States on the Republican ticket. He is

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Speaker 3: facing more than ninety felony charges. He's on trial for fraud.

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Speaker 3: A federal judge has found him liable for rape. He

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Speaker 3: is being accused by the federal government of violating the

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Speaker 3: espionads AT. He is facing racketeering charges. The US government

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Speaker 3: is accusing him of trying to overthrow the election, engaging

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Speaker 3: in Lie's trickery, deceit, and fraud. And none of these

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Speaker 3: Republican candidates can figure out, huh, how do I run

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Speaker 3: against this guy?

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Speaker 2: How do I be this trying? They're not even trying.

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Speaker 1: I mean, New York is about to take away his

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Speaker 1: business license so he cannot have a business, and they're

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Speaker 1: not and they're like, oh, we shouldn't dare to try

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Speaker 1: to make a case against this guy.

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Speaker 3: I mean, Chris Christie does it, but I mean, you

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Speaker 3: know the problem is that if you're Chris Christie, you

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Speaker 3: needed Donald Trump there as a foil. And so it's

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Speaker 3: you know, as much as I want to root for Christie, can't.

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Speaker 3: You can't punch a punch bag that doesn't show up.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, so he's been saying the right things and

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Speaker 3: he'll go through you know, he'll he'll point out that

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Speaker 3: it seems like a bad idea to nominate somebody who's

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Speaker 3: gonna spend most of their time in the dock in

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Speaker 3: a criminal trial. I mean, yeah, you know again, five

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Speaker 3: minutes ago, a rational political party he would have said, yeah,

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Speaker 3: that makes sense. It's a really bad idea. And Chris

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Speaker 3: Christie says it'll.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, that's true.

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Speaker 1: And I also think as we watch this, we see

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Speaker 1: Christy remember has like got COVID from Trump and was

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, he nearly died because of Trump.

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Speaker 1: I mean, and he worked in the Trump administration. I

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Speaker 1: feel like the one thing I don't feel like we

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Speaker 1: talk about this enough again, it's like one of the

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Speaker 1: uncomfortable realities. But like, there are a bunch of people

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Speaker 1: who served in the Trump administration happily. I mean a

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Speaker 1: lot of people, and then they sort of decided it

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Speaker 1: was a bridge too far, or maybe it wasn't or

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Speaker 1: maybe they were about to get you with perjury, and

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Speaker 1: so they decided they'd write a book and get out

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Speaker 1: of it. Now, you know, there's something to be said

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Speaker 1: for that, and you know, what's good for people to

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Speaker 1: pull back the curtain. But it's also there's a percentage

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Speaker 1: of craven there. There's a big wallaping dose of craven there.

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Speaker 1: But on the other hand, you know, when when you're

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Speaker 1: in the foxhole, you you really, you know, can't be

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Speaker 1: checking the resumes of everybody that's jumping in with you.

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Speaker 1: I am willing to welcome any conrad. I continue to

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Speaker 1: be amazed at the fact that and this also is

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Speaker 1: I continue to be amazed that something's happening that has

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Speaker 1: never happened in American presidential history. The number of people

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Speaker 1: who have worked in the Trump White House or served

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Speaker 1: on the Trump cabinet who are out there saying this

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Speaker 1: man is nuts, this man is disconnected from reality, he

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Speaker 1: is dangerous, and it doesn't seem.

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Speaker 3: To be mattering. I mean, normally you would think, okay,

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Speaker 3: what would happen if his hand picked attorney general, if

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Speaker 3: his own chief of staff, if his secretary of state,

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Speaker 3: if his secretary of defense, if his national security advisor,

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Speaker 3: if one aid after another came out and said, guys,

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Speaker 3: this is terrible. This man is completely unfit to serve.

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Speaker 3: You would think that. Again, a rational political party in

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Speaker 3: a world we do not innhabit would say, yeah, maybe

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Speaker 3: we got to listen to the people who were in

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Speaker 3: the room while the shit was happening. And again, it

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Speaker 3: doesn't seem to be making much of a difference.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that is unbelievable that a month ago there was

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Speaker 1: this news cycle where Trump said, you know, I think

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Speaker 1: we should execute Mark Milly and people were like, well,

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Speaker 1: this seems pretty bad.

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Speaker 2: And then it sort of went away.

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Speaker 3: Okay, we could play this game, and the one before

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Speaker 3: that there was a news cycle where I've lost track

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Speaker 3: of the new cycles. Remember, Mollie, do you remember when

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Speaker 3: he actually put in writing that we should suspend the

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Speaker 3: US Constitution to allow him to be returned to power?

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Speaker 3: And you remember that news cycle when he was having

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Speaker 3: dinner with Neo Nazis. Huh? And then there was a

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Speaker 3: new cycle. And this is part of the problem, is

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Speaker 3: that we keep moving on and the default setting of

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Speaker 3: most of our punditry now is just horse race up. No,

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Speaker 3: let's let's gaze a little bit more in our navel.

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Speaker 3: We'll talk about this pole, or we'll talk about that,

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Speaker 3: or we'll do this game theory about all of that.

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Speaker 3: It's like, hello, do you remember who Donald Trump is,

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Speaker 3: what Donald Trump has done, what Donald Trump tells us

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Speaker 3: on a regular basis, he's going to do. See, Mully,

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Speaker 3: you and I can engage in Trump derangement syndrome and say,

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Speaker 3: you know what second Trump term? He would be all

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Speaker 3: about revenge and retribution. Trump is like you know, says

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Speaker 3: hold my beer, absolutely, and we're going to execute the

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Speaker 3: top general. And I have this list of people that

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Speaker 3: would incredibly prosecute. It's like you can't come up with

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Speaker 3: something that he is not going. No, I'll do you

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Speaker 3: one better. You know you think I'm not going to

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Speaker 3: support you, creat I'm going to fuck NATO all together.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to amend it all of our allies.

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Speaker 1: And I want to point out for our listeners that

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Speaker 1: I'm not laughing because this is funny. I'm laughing because

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Speaker 1: it's just so upsetting that the only way I can

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Speaker 1: process it is and I mean, what you're saying is funny,

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Speaker 1: but it's funny tragic, not fun.

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Speaker 3: Oh no, no, it's it's also if you're not laughing

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Speaker 3: at it, what are you doing, You're like blowing your

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Speaker 3: brains out?

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Speaker 2: You know, It's like it's yeah, exactly, and it's it

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Speaker 2: really is.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's up to eleven, so there's no world

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Speaker 1: in which he disappears. The thing I wanted to ask

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Speaker 1: you is we've seen the polls. Again, we don't even

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Speaker 1: need to talk about the polls, but obviously they somehow

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Speaker 1: have American people deciding against It's three thousand people in

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Speaker 1: five states, but who answer their cell phones to unknown numbers.

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Speaker 1: So I'm just going to put that out there but

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Speaker 1: that group has decided they love Donald Trump and think

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Speaker 1: he has incredible mental acuity, which, okay, that's baffling. But

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Speaker 1: if Trump loses in twenty twenty four, which we really

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Speaker 1: need to happen so democracy survives, I don't think he

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Speaker 1: goes away.

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Speaker 3: Oh see, I was hoping I didn't have to go

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Speaker 3: here this early. I remember that moment when I was

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Speaker 3: doing my podcast back in twenty twenty and I said,

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Speaker 3: you know, even if he loses, he could run in

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty four. Nothing bands He's not going to have

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Speaker 3: He's not going to made loss because Donald Trump never loses.

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Speaker 3: He's gonna run in twenty nine. People, No, no, oh

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Speaker 3: my god. And so so you raise the question he

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Speaker 3: loses in twenty twenty four, there's no chance that he

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Speaker 3: graciously concedes. See, there is no chance that he acknowledges

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Speaker 3: his defeat. There's no chance that he does not press

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Speaker 3: the Republican Party in Congress to overturn the election. And

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Speaker 3: there is a very real chance that Donald Trump will

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Speaker 3: fully intend to run again in twenty twenty eight. Okay,

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Speaker 3: I need to start day drinking. Just you just have

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Speaker 3: pushed me right over the limit here.

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Speaker 1: I don't think he's a better candidate in twenty twenty eight.

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Speaker 1: I mean he's not a right, he'll be eighty two

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Speaker 1: that or no, he'll be eighty I don't know, he'll

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Speaker 1: be eighty five or something.

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Speaker 3: I mean he'll be the most robust candidate. He'll will

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Speaker 3: be the best and strongest candidate. This has been part

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Speaker 3: of this sort of this this cycle, this nightmare cycle

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Speaker 3: that we're in here evolving this. But and what I'm

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Speaker 3: also noting is that and I'm going to take a

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Speaker 3: shot at some of our never trump friends. I am

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Speaker 3: a never Trumper that because we've been doing this for

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Speaker 3: eight years. There's almost a PTSD about this where I

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Speaker 3: sense a bookend on social media between the triumphilism of

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Speaker 3: the MAGA folks we're going to win, nothing you will

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Speaker 3: do will stop us, and the never trumpers who go,

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Speaker 3: we will never win. There's nothing we can do to

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Speaker 3: stop them. It's a bookend. It's like the arrogance and

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Speaker 3: the despair. Let's swallow in our despair. At a certain point,

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Speaker 3: you just got to suck it up and go, Okay,

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Speaker 3: we're not the crazy ones. We don't have to buy

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Speaker 3: the bullshit. Let's not fall into the trap of assuming

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Speaker 3: that we are dealing with some other worldly genius who

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Speaker 3: has scoped out everything, and that we are incapable of

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Speaker 3: finding a way of stopping him, or blocking him, or

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Speaker 3: humiliating him. I mean, it is almost a Stockholm syndrome

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Speaker 3: that I'm seeing here, the people going, Hey, you know,

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Speaker 3: here's my hot take. Who won the elle? Donald Trump's

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Speaker 3: the big winner? Who won the debate? Donald Trump's the

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Speaker 3: big winner. What's gonna happen on abortionble? Donald Trump is

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Speaker 3: going to figure? No, this guy is he has this

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Speaker 3: reptilian instinct, which I do not underestimate. He does have

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Speaker 3: a reptilian instinct and a certain low cunning. But if

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Speaker 3: you watch him, which you also realize that his arrogance,

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Speaker 3: his narcissism, and his fundamental shallowness does catch up with

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Speaker 3: him occasionally. You know. You put him on the stand

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Speaker 3: in New York, and I'm sorry that was not a

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Speaker 3: master class in being a defendant. That was and raging

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Speaker 3: against the dark.

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Speaker 1: And screaming at the judge who was about to decide

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Speaker 1: his fate, which in my mind is not a great move.

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Speaker 3: Really. Huh See, I'm not a lawyer either, but VI

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Speaker 3: didn't seem smart to me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that is the thing is, you know,

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Speaker 1: he is not some cunning genius. We only have a

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Speaker 1: few minutes left, and I don't want to just talk

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Speaker 1: about Trump because I want to talk to you about

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Speaker 1: this is theoretically a good Senate map Republicans. We have

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty three is over. We had this election where

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Speaker 1: Democrats really won. I'm hoping you can talk about gun

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Speaker 1: Youngkin was sort of shopped as this moderate. He never

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Speaker 1: was really a moderatey. I think he offered a sort

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Speaker 1: of more deluded form of trump Ism.

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Speaker 2: The people of Virginia's they sort of they did not

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Speaker 2: give him a mandate.

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Speaker 3: Well, he's a moderate in the sense of in terms

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Speaker 3: of where the windows moved. I mean, the definitions are

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Speaker 3: shifting here. But you know, there was the fever dream

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Speaker 3: of the donor class that he was going to be

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Speaker 3: able to come in and, you know, perhaps save them

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Speaker 3: from Trump. That was never going to happen. That's why

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Speaker 3: I said, no, his ambitions have gone to the rapidly

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Speaker 3: filling unicorn graveyard. He was a unicorn there. But I

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Speaker 3: think what's really rattled Republicans after this election is the

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Speaker 3: recognition they have two problems and they are separable problems.

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Speaker 3: I mean, number one is the obvious problem of abortion.

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Speaker 3: Abortion is not going away. It's still motivating voters. And

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Speaker 3: they had hoped that they had cracked the code in

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Speaker 3: Virginia by coming up with a fifteen week ban, figuring

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Speaker 3: that a fifteen week ban pulls much better than a

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Speaker 3: six week ban, right, which it does. Yeah, and you

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Speaker 3: can tell that you talk to Republicans that are thinking, hey,

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Speaker 3: this is the way out of this particular problem that

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Speaker 3: we have created. What you saw in Virginia was that

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Speaker 3: voters are not focusing on the number of weeks. They're

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Speaker 3: focusing on the word ban. And so the fifteen week

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Speaker 3: ban flopped and that was their default setting, that was

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Speaker 3: their off ramp, and now they're going, oh, we're screwed

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Speaker 3: on this. Their second problem, besides wars, which is not

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Speaker 3: going away, is that MAGA continues to be a loser.

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Speaker 3: You know, what happened in Kentucky is amazing really when

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Speaker 3: you think about it. Trump wins by twenty six points

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Speaker 3: deep red state Andy Basheer was elected governor by I

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Speaker 3: think bout five thousand votes. Four years ago. Donald Trump

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Speaker 3: goes all in Daniel Cameron, the Republican puts on the

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Speaker 3: MAGA red hat runs full out, full throatd MAGA. The

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Speaker 3: Democrats pushback, say, you know, we're running against MAGA extremists.

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Speaker 3: We have a centrist Democrat against MAGA extremists. And Andy

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Speaker 3: Basheer wins by five points. That is a comb margin

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Speaker 3: in that state, a state that Donald Trump won by

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Speaker 3: twenty six points. So MAGA continues to be a boat anchor.

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Speaker 3: Abortion is not going away, and they haven't figured out

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Speaker 3: how to handle it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is Kentucky. This is not Georgia. This

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Speaker 1: is not a sweet state. This is a red state.

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Speaker 1: Now Wisconsin, Yeah, wiscon Sorry. I think it's really a

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Speaker 1: good point that they can't win on abortion. I would

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Speaker 1: like to talk to you for a second about what

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Speaker 1: happened in Mississippi, because again I haven't seen enough reporting

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Speaker 1: about what happened in Mississippi, but I have some anxiety

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Speaker 1: that it was not so easy to vote in Mississippi.

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Speaker 3: I honestly don't know. I mean, I've seen the same

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Speaker 3: reports you've seen about running out of ballots. I do

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Speaker 3: think that there have been efforts to make it harder

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Speaker 3: to vote, particularly in urban areas. I was on a

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Speaker 3: conference call yesterday about voting in Wisconsin. No, voting in

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Speaker 3: Wisconsin is the vote turnout is dramatically up everywhere except

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Speaker 3: in the urban areas in places like Milwaukee, where they

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Speaker 3: have made it harder to vote the various changes in

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Speaker 3: state law. So I don't know, you know, how that

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Speaker 3: played out in Mississippi. If I remember my history, I

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Speaker 3: believe the Mississippi has kind of a checkered past when

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Speaker 3: it comes to voting rights.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I'm pretty sure it's.

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Speaker 3: Kind of a track record there. It is not implausible

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Speaker 3: to think that in Mississippi they made it more difficult.

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Speaker 3: But I simply don't don't have enough information, right.

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Speaker 1: But I do think that's a good point, and I

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Speaker 1: do think that the battle for voting rights, I think

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Speaker 1: people find it boring, but it is actually quite an important,

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Speaker 1: you know, thing that underscores all of those.

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Speaker 3: Well, yes, obviously, you know a lot of things that

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Speaker 3: we had taken for granted are now obviously at risk.

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Speaker 3: And I think this is we're living through an ror

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Speaker 3: in which, you know, our complacency has been shattered on

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Speaker 3: one issue after another, and certainly ought to be shattered

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Speaker 3: about our complacency about the robustness of our democracy.

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Speaker 2: Charlie Sikes, thank you so much. I hope you'll come.

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Speaker 3: Back anytime, Molly, anytime. Thank you.

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Speaker 1: Jacob Rubashkin is an analyst and reporter for Inside Elections.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Fast Politics.

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Speaker 5: Jacob, Yeah, thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: We are a few days out from an off here.

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Speaker 1: I think it's like an off off here election. First,

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Speaker 1: I want you to explain a little bit about what

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Speaker 1: you do, and then I'm going to make you interpret

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Speaker 1: the results.

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Speaker 5: I'm a reporter and analyst for Inside Elections. We exclusively

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Speaker 5: cover elections primarily for the House and Senate and governor,

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Speaker 5: but also some presidential and when the need arises a

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Speaker 5: state level things that can inform us about the national

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Speaker 5: political environment. So we spend our.

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Speaker 2: Whole day looking at data.

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Speaker 5: Looking at data, but also interviewing sources, interviewing candidates, talking

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Speaker 5: to people here in DC, but also out in all

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Speaker 5: of these districts and states where the races are taking place,

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Speaker 5: and combining the data that we see with those interviews

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Speaker 5: and on the ground reporting we do to paint as

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Speaker 5: full of picture as possible.

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Speaker 1: There were a few state elections, some very important, some

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Speaker 1: an indicator I was told that from the White House

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Speaker 1: world that this is the first time in thirty years

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Speaker 1: that a president's party has done this well consistently on

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Speaker 1: an off year. Talk to me about sort of the

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Speaker 1: meaning of these elections. I mean, were they from just

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Speaker 1: a sort of straight data, no opinion point of view.

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Speaker 1: Do you see this as having been a good cycle

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Speaker 1: for Democrats?

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Speaker 3: Absolutely?

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Speaker 5: I think for the most part, when you look at

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Speaker 5: kind of these disparate races that took place in a

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Speaker 5: handful of states across the country, Democrats did well in

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Speaker 5: almost all of them. Right. I think if you looked

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Speaker 5: at any individual contest, right, if you said, I'm only

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Speaker 5: going to look at Virginy R. I'm only going to

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Speaker 5: look at Kentucky, you would say, okay, well Democrats did

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Speaker 5: well in that race. But it's just one state, right,

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Speaker 5: it's a local race.

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Speaker 1: But Andy Burscher, let's talk about Kentucky for a minute.

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Speaker 1: He won by five thousand in that first race. In

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Speaker 1: this second race, he actually did better.

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Speaker 5: Right, Absolutely, I mean he got went from winning by

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Speaker 5: five thousand votes to five percent. And in Kentucky, no less,

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Speaker 5: which is obviously a very republican state these days. So

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Speaker 5: you know, I think that the sum total of everything.

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Speaker 5: The fact that they didn't just do well in one

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Speaker 5: or two of these states, but that they did well

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Speaker 5: in almost every state that was holding an interesting election.

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Speaker 5: Here is what makes it a good night for Democrats

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Speaker 5: across the board.

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Speaker 1: Virginia and Kentucky both have this issue of abortion. Right

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Speaker 1: for Chaer ran on abortion. He was an apologetically pro choice.

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Speaker 1: He talked about it. He really is a little bit

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Speaker 1: counterintuitive in a red state like that, but he really

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Speaker 1: ran on it. And in Virginia, you know, the idea

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Speaker 1: here was that Democrats needed to hold and we interviewed

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Speaker 1: a ton of people from both the state Senate races

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Speaker 1: and the House of Delegates races, because we are nothing

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Speaker 1: if not in the weeds. They needed to hold the

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Speaker 1: state Senate. Winning the House of Delegates didn't even in

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Speaker 1: my mind, I was prize the Democrats did that. They

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Speaker 1: really ran on this idea that if Youngkin was able

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Speaker 1: to have a rubber stamping state legislature, he would ban

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Speaker 1: abortion at fifteen weeks.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Absolutely, Abortion certainly the dominant issue in those Virginia races.

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Speaker 5: You know, it was really interesting. We saw for the

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Speaker 5: first time Republicans try and coalesce around a single message

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Speaker 5: on abortion right. Ever since the Dobbs ruling came down

435
00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:28,680
Speaker 5: a year and a half ago, Republican candidates have struggled

436
00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:31,240
Speaker 5: to get on the same page about what they're proposing

437
00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:34,200
Speaker 5: to fill the gap that you know, Roe versus Wade

438
00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:36,880
Speaker 5: used to fill. And some candidates wanted a total ban,

439
00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:40,800
Speaker 5: no exceptions, Oklahoma style, some wanted six weeks, ten weeks,

440
00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:43,080
Speaker 5: fifteen weeks, twenty weeks. It was all over the map,

441
00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:44,840
Speaker 5: and what they were trying to do in Virginia was

442
00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:47,520
Speaker 5: Youngkin basically said we're going to go fifteen weeks. That's

443
00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:51,000
Speaker 5: what the polling tells us is popular. Everyone who's running

444
00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:52,920
Speaker 5: for state legislature is going to get on the same

445
00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:55,399
Speaker 5: page about fifteen weeks. We're all going to run ads

446
00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:58,080
Speaker 5: fifteen weeks. It's not a ban, it's a reasonable limit,

447
00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:01,080
Speaker 5: and it was not enough to get over the finish line.

448
00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:03,440
Speaker 5: So I do think it'll be interesting to see what

449
00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:07,560
Speaker 5: Republicans do now that that experiment fell short. Do they

450
00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:09,720
Speaker 5: stay with this fifteen weeks because that's what the polling

451
00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:12,960
Speaker 5: numbers say, or are they back to a state of

452
00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:15,919
Speaker 5: disarray when it comes to what exactly the party as

453
00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:17,800
Speaker 5: a whole is proposing on abortion.

454
00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:21,040
Speaker 1: That is a really interesting point, right, because this is

455
00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:26,639
Speaker 1: here someone who took a more quote unquote moderate view.

456
00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:29,680
Speaker 1: There's a lot that's sort of supported by polling, right,

457
00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:33,560
Speaker 1: not like a Mike Johnson view, but a really kind

458
00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:41,320
Speaker 1: of careful view. And he too, really got his clock cleaned.

459
00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:44,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, I think that. You know, it's been

460
00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:47,879
Speaker 5: fascinating to see Republicans kind of within this particular issue

461
00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:50,679
Speaker 5: sphere learn a lesson that I think Democrats have been

462
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:52,760
Speaker 5: learning for quite some time. For instance, when it comes

463
00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:55,800
Speaker 5: to guns, right, Democrats talk all the time about how

464
00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:59,520
Speaker 5: universal background checks have a ninety percent approval rating in

465
00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:02,640
Speaker 5: the general public. Right, ninety percent of voters support more

466
00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:06,199
Speaker 5: restrictive gun laws like universal background checks, a saw weapon ban,

467
00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:08,720
Speaker 5: things like that. And yet when they go to the polls,

468
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:11,080
Speaker 5: they aren't just going to vote for the candidate that

469
00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:14,920
Speaker 5: supports that policy, right. There are a lot of other considerations,

470
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:17,960
Speaker 5: primarily whether they think they'll just stop at that, you know,

471
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:20,359
Speaker 5: either the fifteen week ban when it comes to abortion,

472
00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:22,960
Speaker 5: or you know, just a universal background check. There's a

473
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:26,120
Speaker 5: lack of trust when it comes to Republicans on abortion.

474
00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:29,080
Speaker 5: That meant that even though they were saying in these ads,

475
00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:32,160
Speaker 5: I'm only going to go fifteen weeks. Voters didn't necessarily

476
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:35,080
Speaker 5: believe that, because they saw them cheering on the striking

477
00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:37,040
Speaker 5: down of Row versus way, they saw them take more

478
00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:40,240
Speaker 5: restrictive stances in the past, and so they weren't willing

479
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:44,679
Speaker 5: to vote on faith that Republicans would just do that

480
00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:47,679
Speaker 5: and nothing more, at least the voters who might be

481
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:49,679
Speaker 5: open to that. And then of course you've got a

482
00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:52,200
Speaker 5: lot of voters who don't support fifteen weeks and were

483
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:54,560
Speaker 5: never going to back a Republican who they thought was

484
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:56,800
Speaker 5: going to pass any sort of abortion restriction.

485
00:23:57,280 --> 00:24:00,480
Speaker 1: Is there a sense in which it's trump But I

486
00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:03,320
Speaker 1: think it's more than that. It's sort of because not

487
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:05,719
Speaker 1: all of these people are Trumpet. But there is a

488
00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:10,720
Speaker 1: certain maga bravado, right, and we see it in Mike Johnson,

489
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:14,480
Speaker 1: and we see it in Jim Jordan, this sort of

490
00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:18,760
Speaker 1: performative politics that is very crazy.

491
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:19,440
Speaker 2: And very loud.

492
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:24,080
Speaker 1: And Lauren Beaupert and MTG do you think that this

493
00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:28,679
Speaker 1: is creating an atmosphere of mistrust for the Republican Party.

494
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:31,040
Speaker 1: I'm just thinking out loud when I think about like

495
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:36,600
Speaker 1: voters not taking politicians at their word. Youngkin's whole thing

496
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:39,240
Speaker 1: was that he was talked about as someone who could

497
00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:42,520
Speaker 1: sell himself as a moderate. What he was unable to

498
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:45,879
Speaker 1: do in this election cycle was sell himself as a

499
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:48,719
Speaker 1: motor right. They didn't trust him. So I just wonder

500
00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:52,640
Speaker 1: how you get to a place where voters really where

501
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:55,960
Speaker 1: the R next to your name hurts you in your

502
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:59,760
Speaker 1: inability to you know, sell the game.

503
00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 3: Yeah.

504
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:02,320
Speaker 5: Look, I think that there are a couple of things

505
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:05,160
Speaker 5: going on, right. I think that specifically to this race

506
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:08,359
Speaker 5: and this set of races, Junkin was not on the

507
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:12,560
Speaker 5: ballot himself. I think he is still popular in Virginia

508
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 5: as an individual figure. And obviously he won that election narrowly,

509
00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:19,520
Speaker 5: but he still won two years ago, and he did

510
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:21,639
Speaker 5: that by winning over a lot of voters who have

511
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:24,959
Speaker 5: typically voted Democratic. But I do think that in the

512
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 5: Trump era, right, really ever since twenty sixteen, Yeah, there

513
00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:32,560
Speaker 5: has been a shift in the way that a lot

514
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:36,360
Speaker 5: of voters, voters that are heavily represented in Virginia, right,

515
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:38,480
Speaker 5: Virginia's kind of ground zero in a lot of ways

516
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:41,399
Speaker 5: for a lot of the shifts that we've seen in

517
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:44,640
Speaker 5: the two party coalitions over the last decade or so

518
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:47,679
Speaker 5: have become more skeptical of Republicans. And I think everyone

519
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,320
Speaker 5: is skeptical of their politicians in general, and that's.

520
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:50,640
Speaker 3: Not a bad thing.

521
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 5: That's probably a good thing that voters don't just blindly

522
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:55,920
Speaker 5: believe what a politician says they're going to do in

523
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:56,480
Speaker 5: a campaign.

524
00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:59,960
Speaker 2: Ad Right, and they may be more skeptical of Democrats.

525
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:03,040
Speaker 5: That's possible too, right, Yeah, absolutely, And I think look,

526
00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:05,639
Speaker 5: the Virginia races were very close. Right, We're going to

527
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:08,000
Speaker 5: look at a state Senate that's twenty one to nineteen,

528
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:10,720
Speaker 5: a state House that's fifty one forty nine. It doesn't

529
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:13,239
Speaker 5: get much closer than that. So I do think that

530
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:15,679
Speaker 5: this was a loss for Republicans. They put a lot

531
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:19,080
Speaker 5: of political capital, a lot of financial capital behind trying

532
00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:22,040
Speaker 5: to flip the state Senate and get full control of government.

533
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:25,119
Speaker 5: They felt short, absolutely, But this was not a wipeout.

534
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:28,600
Speaker 5: This was a very very narrow result in favor of Democrats.

535
00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:30,760
Speaker 5: But they lost the House of Delegates.

536
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:31,679
Speaker 3: They did, and.

537
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:33,480
Speaker 5: That's why I'm saying it's not it's not a good

538
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:36,040
Speaker 5: outcome for Republicans. It could have been a lot worse

539
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:38,040
Speaker 5: for them. There were four or five seats that were

540
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:41,640
Speaker 5: very narrow that went for Republicans that could have easily

541
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 5: flipped to Democrats. And so I wonder what the lesson

542
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,680
Speaker 5: is going to be that Republicans draw from this, Whether

543
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:51,479
Speaker 5: it's a lesson about abortion, or whether it's a lesson

544
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:55,480
Speaker 5: about Virginia just not quite being there for them yet,

545
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:57,520
Speaker 5: whether it's a lesson about vote by mail, which is

546
00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:00,159
Speaker 5: something that they invested in heavily this election cycle for

547
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:02,880
Speaker 5: the first time. There are a lot of different lessons

548
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:05,800
Speaker 5: that they might pull out of the results here that

549
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:08,320
Speaker 5: might not just be We've got to totally rethink on

550
00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:09,399
Speaker 5: abortion again.

551
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:13,880
Speaker 1: Right, And quite frankly, Republicans are really in a sticky

552
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:17,280
Speaker 1: wicket when it comes to abortion because the people who

553
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:19,840
Speaker 1: are their bread and butter are the people who they

554
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 1: must win in order to win elections. They have gone

555
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 1: to the Republican Party because they want abortion van.

556
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:30,520
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's tough. It is not something that the party

557
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:34,119
Speaker 5: has figured out how to solve yet. You know, I

558
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:36,480
Speaker 5: think it was interesting for the five people who watched

559
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 5: the Republican primary debate last night. I don't know I

560
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:40,720
Speaker 5: was one of them. I don't know if you were.

561
00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:43,200
Speaker 5: You know, we got to five on the podcast. Okay,

562
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:43,720
Speaker 5: what a five?

563
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 2: They don't came enough to watch that debate, I'm sorry

564
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:46,960
Speaker 2: to tell you.

565
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 5: One of the interesting moments was when abortion came up,

566
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 5: you know, an hour and forty five minutes, in which

567
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 5: I think was a little late for such a pressing issue.

568
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:58,879
Speaker 5: You know, there was a real difference in opinion among

569
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:01,960
Speaker 5: the people on this age that I thought was illustrative

570
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 5: of the kind of internal struggle that Republicans are going

571
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 5: on between people who want a national law, people like

572
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:10,600
Speaker 5: Nikki Haley, who might vote for a national law or

573
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 5: sign a national law, but thinks it's not feasible and

574
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 5: so not worth you know, even talking about because it'll

575
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:18,199
Speaker 5: turn voters off. People like Chris Christy, who are like,

576
00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:21,360
Speaker 5: whatever the states want. If New Jersey wants to have

577
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:23,200
Speaker 5: no limits, that's fine with New Jersey.

578
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:26,680
Speaker 1: Again, you don't have to say anything here, but because

579
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:28,359
Speaker 1: I know you're not on the opinion side, but I

580
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 1: will say, because this is I'm on the opinion side.

581
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:32,400
Speaker 2: This is a lie.

582
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:35,800
Speaker 1: This whole thing about that it's the state's rights they

583
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 1: have right now, you know, a group trying to ban

584
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 1: the abortion pills, so yes, they shop it that way.

585
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 2: But that's not really what it is.

586
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think that there was a lot missing from

587
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:50,640
Speaker 5: that discussion. Obviously, the judge down in Texas that's trying

588
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:54,040
Speaker 5: to ban life PRISTO and the dynamics there that went

589
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:58,920
Speaker 5: totally unremarked upon are important, and Republicans really don't have

590
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 5: an answer for them. The movement to try and ban contraception,

591
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:04,080
Speaker 5: I think, which is even as unpopular as a lot

592
00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:07,720
Speaker 5: of the abortion restrictions are right, contraception bans are times

593
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:10,720
Speaker 5: ten unpopularity. Not not really, of course, but you know,

594
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 5: quite significant. They are not just all over the place

595
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:16,440
Speaker 5: in terms of what they want, but they're all over

596
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 5: the place and how to talk about it and how

597
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:22,200
Speaker 5: to try and sell voters on trusting them on abortion policy.

598
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:22,840
Speaker 3: They have not.

599
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:24,960
Speaker 5: Figured that out yet, and I don't think they're any

600
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:28,440
Speaker 5: closer to figuring it out for next year's elections.

601
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:31,720
Speaker 1: The thing I am struck by with this Republican contest

602
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:35,120
Speaker 1: is there's no one who is offering a radically different

603
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 1: view of trump Ism.

604
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 2: Really.

605
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:40,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I think that the candidates who are

606
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 5: even slightly deviating have really struggled to gain traction. Obviously,

607
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 5: you know, someone like Asa Hutchinson, who's that right, the

608
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:50,400
Speaker 5: former governor of Arkansas, who I think is still technically

609
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:52,400
Speaker 5: running but hasn't made any of the debates since the

610
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:56,240
Speaker 5: first one. Honestly, he probably had the most clearly articulated

611
00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 5: kind of return to pre Trump Republicanism as his plat.

612
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:02,360
Speaker 5: He was one of the only candidates other than Chris

613
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 5: Christy who basically has said Trump should be barred from

614
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 5: running for president. He is probably going to be a

615
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 5: convicted felon, you know. He obviously didn't get anywhere. But look,

616
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 5: I think that most of the people who see a

617
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 5: version of Republicanism that's different than trump Ism have voluntarily

618
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:21,040
Speaker 5: or involuntarily left the party, and they've certainly left any

619
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:23,920
Speaker 5: sort of real positions of power within the party. And

620
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:26,360
Speaker 5: if they are still there in positions of power, they're

621
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:29,280
Speaker 5: smart enough not to rock the vote too much because

622
00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:32,320
Speaker 5: they know which way the elector at swings.

623
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:36,960
Speaker 1: But again, it does come back to this, the base

624
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 1: wants something different than what the general wants.

625
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:43,560
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I think that is probably the case.

626
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 5: I think there's a lot of data floating out there

627
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:47,720
Speaker 5: right now to suggest that, you know, if the election

628
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 5: were held today, things might be a little closer than

629
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 5: perhaps anticipated. I don't think that's necessarily a reflection of

630
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:56,840
Speaker 5: general election voters wanting trump Ism and more just they've

631
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 5: forgotten what trump Ism is and they don't like Biden,

632
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 5: and so they're just grasping for whatever altern it out.

633
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 1: Let's talk about that poll, because there's actually also there

634
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 1: was another one too. So there were two poles of

635
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 1: c and And poll and New York Times poll, and

636
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:11,520
Speaker 1: they both basically said the same thing, which is that

637
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 1: voters are not very happy with Biden, and for a

638
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:17,040
Speaker 1: number of reasons, him being old, being very high on

639
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:20,120
Speaker 1: the list. So I just want to like take a

640
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:22,840
Speaker 1: minute here to sort of look at this for a second.

641
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:26,200
Speaker 1: So these poles compared Biden, they were sort of they

642
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:28,880
Speaker 1: were like, how do you feel about Biden? Right? And

643
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:33,200
Speaker 1: even like the exit polls, I don't totally trust the polls.

644
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:36,840
Speaker 1: And again, three thousand people, six states, but they are

645
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 1: the states that matter. But the exit polling in Ohio,

646
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 1: for example, that's something I put more faith in, right,

647
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 1: because they're voting anyway, they're in there. This is the

648
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:51,480
Speaker 1: exit polling. Biden got very poorer marks from them in Ohio,

649
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:54,000
Speaker 1: which is a red state, but then they absolutely voted

650
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:58,440
Speaker 1: for the abortion initiative. So is it a smart play

651
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:01,640
Speaker 1: to put abortion on the back everywhere and will that

652
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 1: help Democrats on the ticket?

653
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:06,760
Speaker 5: I think absolutely. It's not a silver bullet, right. It's

654
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:10,440
Speaker 5: not like if there's an abortion right. Obviously, Ohio was

655
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 5: not going to vote fifty six percent for Joe Biden

656
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:15,320
Speaker 5: if the abortion referendum were on the ballot next to Biden.

657
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:18,200
Speaker 5: But I do think that from a turnout perspective, once

658
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:21,440
Speaker 5: you get people into the voting booth for whatever reason, right,

659
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 5: whether it's to vote for Biden or to vote to

660
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:26,920
Speaker 5: enshrine abortion rights in the state constitution, if they're a Democrat,

661
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:28,959
Speaker 5: they're far more likely to vote for Joe Biden.

662
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 3: Right.

663
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:31,200
Speaker 5: The worry that I think Biden has right now is

664
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 5: that people just aren't going to show up. Younger voters,

665
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:36,280
Speaker 5: voters of color, people who are dissatisfied with the job

666
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 5: he's doing might just sit it out. It's not that

667
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 5: they're going to vote for Trump, because I think ultimately

668
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 5: those people dislike Trump far more than they dislike Biden.

669
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:48,640
Speaker 5: But the thing that items like the ballot referenda helps

670
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:50,760
Speaker 5: with is is getting those voters in the ballot box

671
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:52,840
Speaker 5: in the first place, and once they're there, they're probably

672
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:54,520
Speaker 5: not going to leave the top of the ticket, like

673
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:56,720
Speaker 5: especially with Trump's name on the ballot. So I think

674
00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 5: we're seeing in states across the country. I think the

675
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:01,240
Speaker 5: most notable one is Florida. We'll see if they get

676
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:03,040
Speaker 5: there or not, because it's a tough process to get

677
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:05,600
Speaker 5: on the ballot, but we're seeing Democrats really try and

678
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:09,160
Speaker 5: get abortion referenda on the ballot and as many states

679
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:12,000
Speaker 5: as possible for next year so they can try and

680
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 5: get whatever boost out of it they can.

681
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:16,240
Speaker 1: And there were a lot of tight races. But one

682
00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 1: of the things that Dave Wasserman, as you and I

683
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:24,600
Speaker 1: both know Blue Wave Dave or red Waves day, I

684
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:26,840
Speaker 1: want to read this to you because I think it's

685
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:31,800
Speaker 1: a little bit interesting. She said that it seems in

686
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 1: his mind that there was a turnout problem for Republicans

687
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:40,480
Speaker 1: and that there was a sort of an enthusiasm problem,

688
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:44,400
Speaker 1: And I was wondering if you had seen that, and

689
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:46,200
Speaker 1: also what your take on that was.

690
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:46,920
Speaker 3: Yeah.

691
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:48,880
Speaker 5: Look, I think that one of the things that we

692
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:52,920
Speaker 5: are beginning to grapple with in kind of the Trump

693
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:57,880
Speaker 5: era of politics is this question of who is showing

694
00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:02,760
Speaker 5: up to vote in off year elections and special elections.

695
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:05,960
Speaker 1: In Kentucky, Republicans had a turnout enthusiasm problem.

696
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 2: Sorry, that was what I was looking for.

697
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:11,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, I think that that is a very

698
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:14,719
Speaker 5: reasonable question to ask. You know, I think that it's

699
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:18,440
Speaker 5: become clear that one of the major shifts and coalitions

700
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:21,239
Speaker 5: over the last ten years, right has been you We've

701
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:25,160
Speaker 5: seen college educated voters move toward the Democratic Party, and

702
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:28,960
Speaker 5: we've seen lower propensity, non college educated voters, more rural

703
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:33,239
Speaker 5: voters moved toward the Republican Party. And that has resulted

704
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:37,399
Speaker 5: in potentially, right, a special election electorate, an off year

705
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:42,400
Speaker 5: election electorate that favors Democrats in some structural ways, because

706
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 5: the more educated you are, the more likely you're going

707
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:48,280
Speaker 5: to show up to vote in an off year election.

708
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:52,439
Speaker 5: The more engaged politically you are, right, the more likely

709
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:54,240
Speaker 5: you are to show up in an off year election.

710
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:57,319
Speaker 5: And so Republicans, I think, as they've lost some of

711
00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:00,200
Speaker 5: those voters in the suburbs of even in Stea. It's

712
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:02,600
Speaker 5: like Kentucky, right, which you know, has a lot of

713
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:06,160
Speaker 5: wealthy suburbs outside of Louisville and Lexington has wealthy suburbs

714
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:10,080
Speaker 5: up by Cincinnati, places where Andy Basheer did significantly better

715
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:12,800
Speaker 5: in twenty twenty three than he did in twenty nineteen.

716
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:15,239
Speaker 5: That's a real problem for them when it comes to

717
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:17,960
Speaker 5: these off year elections. Same thing in Virginia. You know,

718
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:21,839
Speaker 5: we saw in northern Virginia Democrats ultimately did pretty well,

719
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:24,279
Speaker 5: and you've got a lot of college educated voters. There

720
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:27,120
Speaker 5: are a lot of government workers there. In Hampton Roads,

721
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:30,719
Speaker 5: for instance, where the Democratic coalition skews a little bit

722
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 5: more rural, a little bit you know, reliant on black voters,

723
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:38,000
Speaker 5: we saw Democrats not do as well in some of

724
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 5: those districts. So even within Virginia, we saw kind of

725
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:45,760
Speaker 5: the effects of the change in coalitions on the turnout

726
00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:47,320
Speaker 5: and the ultimate results.

727
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:51,279
Speaker 1: So Moms for Liberty and parental rights, let's talk about this.

728
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:52,880
Speaker 2: Prontal rights quote unquote.

729
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:55,880
Speaker 1: This was the sort of thing that a lot of

730
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:59,360
Speaker 1: Republicans sought would win them elections. And Moms for a

731
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:05,080
Speaker 1: Liberty a whole slight of school board candidates, including just

732
00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:09,279
Speaker 1: As Alito's daughter, and they all lost except for one

733
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:12,160
Speaker 1: of them. Talk to me about that weirdness.

734
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:17,440
Speaker 5: We have seen a segment of the Republican Party really

735
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:21,880
Speaker 5: lean into social issues over the last couple of years,

736
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 5: be it issues about schools and the kind of books

737
00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:29,680
Speaker 5: that students are reading, transgender issues, treatment for trans kids.

738
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:34,440
Speaker 5: We have seen Republicans lean into those issues as political

739
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:39,600
Speaker 5: messaging tools to very very mixed, I would say, negative

740
00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:44,920
Speaker 5: results from a political perspective. I think what happened ultimately

741
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:48,480
Speaker 5: was that there was a reaction to school closures during COVID.

742
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 5: There was a reaction to masking rules during COVID that

743
00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:54,319
Speaker 5: really did drive a lot of parents who otherwise would

744
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:57,080
Speaker 5: have voted down the line for Democrats to consider voting

745
00:36:57,080 --> 00:36:59,360
Speaker 5: for Republicans. And when we look at like the twenty

746
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:02,520
Speaker 5: twenty one Virginia elections, right, I think it's clear that

747
00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:05,360
Speaker 5: some of the things Terry mccauliffe said about parents and

748
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:08,719
Speaker 5: schools hurt him and they contributed to that loss. But

749
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:12,279
Speaker 5: I think the mistake Republicans made was they mapped that

750
00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:16,960
Speaker 5: anger onto a different issue, which is books and learning

751
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:21,439
Speaker 5: about sexuality and learning about transgender people and like those

752
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:24,600
Speaker 5: kinds of issues which which were very different, very different

753
00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:27,600
Speaker 5: than COVID restrictions. And they expected the same people who

754
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:30,880
Speaker 5: were angry about COVID to be angry about those things

755
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:33,680
Speaker 5: and they weren't right. And so we saw and it's

756
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:35,600
Speaker 5: not just the Mom's for Liberty on the school board.

757
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:39,400
Speaker 5: It was Daniel Cameron in Kentucky and his allies running

758
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:43,720
Speaker 5: ads a sailing Andy Basheer for you know, the line

759
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:46,840
Speaker 5: was that he supports gender change surgery for trans kids.

760
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:47,080
Speaker 3: Right.

761
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:49,560
Speaker 5: That was in millions of dollars. I think they ran

762
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:53,799
Speaker 5: five million dollars in ads that mentioned those surgeries. And

763
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:57,480
Speaker 5: it wasn't effective. It didn't even in deep red Kentucky.

764
00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:00,839
Speaker 5: That was not an issue that motivated people to go

765
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:03,680
Speaker 5: out and vote against Andy Bisheer. So we saw that

766
00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:05,920
Speaker 5: at the school board level that they, you know, a

767
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:08,960
Speaker 5: lot of these Moms for Liberty slates failed to capture

768
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:11,080
Speaker 5: or retain control of school boards. We saw it at

769
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:14,200
Speaker 5: the state level as well in Kentucky where it just

770
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:15,879
Speaker 5: didn't click with voters at all.

771
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 2: Thank you, Jacob.

772
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:17,840
Speaker 3: Of course.

773
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:23,680
Speaker 1: George Laws is the executive director of the Puerto Rico

774
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:28,280
Speaker 1: Statehood Council. Welcome, too fast politics, George.

775
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:29,879
Speaker 4: Thank you so much, Molly. It's great to be here.

776
00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 1: We are here to talk about something that isn't an

777
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:35,000
Speaker 1: obsession of mine. I feel like it's like a low

778
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:39,279
Speaker 1: key obsession of every Democrat we know, which is the

779
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 1: fifty first state. No, I'm not talking about South South

780
00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:48,600
Speaker 1: Dakota or North North Dakota or West West Dakota. I'm

781
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:51,040
Speaker 1: dogging about an actual place with a lot of people,

782
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:54,719
Speaker 1: which is part of America. Even though Donald Trump, I

783
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:57,040
Speaker 1: think now he knows, let's talk.

784
00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:58,200
Speaker 2: About Puerto Rico.

785
00:38:58,640 --> 00:38:59,120
Speaker 3: Definitely.

786
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:02,239
Speaker 2: Our project, tell me what is called, and tell me

787
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:02,920
Speaker 2: all about it now.

788
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:05,839
Speaker 4: Our project is called PR fifty first and you can

789
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:08,080
Speaker 4: go to PR fifty first dot com to check us out.

790
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:09,040
Speaker 2: And it makes a.

791
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:12,240
Speaker 1: Lot of sense because this is all about the fifty

792
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:13,719
Speaker 1: first date exactly.

793
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:16,160
Speaker 4: It's a project by the nonprofit that I lead as

794
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:18,920
Speaker 4: executive director, which is the Puerto Rico Statehood Council, and

795
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:21,560
Speaker 4: our goal is to advance full equality and democracy for

796
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:25,160
Speaker 4: the US citizens of Puerto Rico, which unfortunately, for over

797
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:27,920
Speaker 4: one hundred and twenty five years, have been relegated to

798
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:32,240
Speaker 4: a second class status by Congress because in American democracy

799
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:35,319
Speaker 4: under the US Constitution, unless you're a US citizen that

800
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:38,719
Speaker 4: lives in a state, you don't actually get voting representation

801
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:41,960
Speaker 4: in the Senate or in the House of Representatives. And

802
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:45,400
Speaker 4: you don't have any voting representation in the electoral College,

803
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:48,360
Speaker 4: so you're subject to federal laws, but you're deprived of

804
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:51,320
Speaker 4: any actual say in those laws.

805
00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:53,359
Speaker 3: And then at top of it, you're treated unequally under them.

806
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:56,400
Speaker 4: And that's what we're seeking to end, and we support

807
00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:59,440
Speaker 4: statehood as the best solution for Puerto Rico and America.

808
00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:03,000
Speaker 1: Why is it that Puerto Rican statehood has such a

809
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:03,840
Speaker 1: hard time.

810
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:05,759
Speaker 4: Well, you know, this issue has been an issue that's

811
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:08,640
Speaker 4: been around for one hundred and twenty five years, and

812
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:11,839
Speaker 4: I think it has such a hard time because it's

813
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:14,360
Speaker 4: out of sight and out of mind for the majority

814
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:18,320
Speaker 4: of the American public most of the time. That changed

815
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:23,440
Speaker 4: significantly in twenty seventeen when we had the hurricanes Irma

816
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:27,759
Speaker 4: and Maria devastate Puerto Rico. Americans saw a lot of

817
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:30,600
Speaker 4: the horrible footage of the damage that was happening on

818
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:35,200
Speaker 4: the island and the lackluster response by President Trump and

819
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:39,279
Speaker 4: his administration during that time, and as a result, a

820
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:42,040
Speaker 4: lot of people were appalled that, hey, here are fellow

821
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:45,840
Speaker 4: American citizens just as important to us as our fellow

822
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:49,440
Speaker 4: citizens in Texas and in Florida and in Louisiana. When

823
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:52,840
Speaker 4: they experienced natural disasters, we should be taking care of

824
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:55,640
Speaker 4: them too. So I think that that's really elevated the

825
00:40:55,719 --> 00:40:58,360
Speaker 4: awareness about the fact that, you know, our fellow American

826
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:01,600
Speaker 4: citizens in Puerto Rico are treated unequally, and then that's

827
00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:06,000
Speaker 4: increasing the visibility of this issue. But traditionally most people

828
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:09,360
Speaker 4: a state side are just really unaware that our fellow

829
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:13,239
Speaker 4: citizens on the island are treated unequally and deprived of

830
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:15,320
Speaker 4: full democracy and full voting rates.

831
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:18,360
Speaker 1: How would Puerto Rican statehood actually happen? Give us the

832
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:19,399
Speaker 1: nuts and bolts here.

833
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:23,000
Speaker 4: So the US Constitution's very clear that Congress has the

834
00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:26,279
Speaker 4: power to admit new states into the Union. They've done

835
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:30,680
Speaker 4: so thirty seven times since the original thirteen colonies became

836
00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:34,120
Speaker 4: the first states, so there's a pretty clear precedent for

837
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:37,680
Speaker 4: how this happens. Congress has to pass legislation. The way

838
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:40,240
Speaker 4: that they did it in the case of Alaska and Hawaii,

839
00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:42,400
Speaker 4: which were the last two states to be admitted, is

840
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:45,360
Speaker 4: that there were locally sponsored votes that were held in

841
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 4: those territories. Majority of the citizens there said that they

842
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:51,280
Speaker 4: didn't want to continue being territories and that they wanted

843
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:53,920
Speaker 4: to be states, and then took a lot of pressure

844
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:56,160
Speaker 4: and a lot of work for Congress to finally get

845
00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:59,160
Speaker 4: around to passing what they called it Admission Bill, but

846
00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:02,120
Speaker 4: eventually they did. And what that bill said is, we're

847
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:06,200
Speaker 4: offering you Alaska Hawaii admission into the Union, and if

848
00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:09,960
Speaker 4: your citizens vote yes in a final vote, then you're in.

849
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 4: And that's basically what happened in nineteen fifty nine, and

850
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:14,720
Speaker 4: those were the last two states that joined the Union.

851
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:18,640
Speaker 4: It doesn't require constitutional amendment, it doesn't require two thirds

852
00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:22,120
Speaker 4: vote in either chamber. It's a simple majority in the

853
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:24,440
Speaker 4: House and the Senate and the signature of the President.

854
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:28,080
Speaker 4: And Puerto Rico would beyond path to becoming America's fifty

855
00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:28,480
Speaker 4: first state.

856
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:32,360
Speaker 1: So does that seem possible? And let's talk about the

857
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:34,600
Speaker 1: sort of support you have in the government.

858
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:38,000
Speaker 4: So it definitely seems more possible now than it has

859
00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:40,360
Speaker 4: ever been. And I'll tell you why because much the

860
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:43,680
Speaker 4: same way that happened in Alaska Hawaii, in Puerto Rico.

861
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:47,200
Speaker 4: Over the last decade, we've held three locally sponsored votes

862
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:50,279
Speaker 4: they're called plubsites, where voters were given the option to

863
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:53,560
Speaker 4: choose between continuing to be a territory and the non

864
00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:58,080
Speaker 4: territory options that are available under the Constitution, which are statehood, independence,

865
00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:02,560
Speaker 4: and free association. And each time voters rejected continuing under

866
00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:06,480
Speaker 4: the current territory status and they favored statehood over the

867
00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:11,080
Speaker 4: non territory options, and that has generated significant momentum for

868
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:14,239
Speaker 4: this issue to advance. During the last session of Congress,

869
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:18,839
Speaker 4: the House actually passed a bill that would essentially authorize

870
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:22,120
Speaker 4: a federally sponsored vote that would give voters in Puerto

871
00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:26,080
Speaker 4: Rico that very choice to choose between statehood, independence, or

872
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:29,799
Speaker 4: independence of free association. It passed with unanimous support among

873
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:34,160
Speaker 4: House Democrats and even sixteen Republican votes, which, considering that

874
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:36,759
Speaker 4: we were just a couple of weeks away from Republicans

875
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:39,919
Speaker 4: taking over the House majority, was amazing to be able

876
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:43,360
Speaker 4: to get that much bipartisan support. And it also passed

877
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:47,080
Speaker 4: with a statement of administration policy by the Biden administration

878
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:50,920
Speaker 4: saying that they endorsed this bill. So that passed in December,

879
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:53,520
Speaker 4: and unfortunately the Senate obviously didn't have time to take

880
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:55,960
Speaker 4: up the measure, and that's where we pick up with

881
00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:59,840
Speaker 4: what happened this week with a Senator Martin Heinrich introducing

882
00:43:59,880 --> 00:44:03,960
Speaker 4: a Senate companion bill that would allow for this process

883
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:06,600
Speaker 4: to take place for Puerto Ricans to choose their future.

884
00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:09,759
Speaker 4: And the bill came out with a historic amount of

885
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:14,239
Speaker 4: original co sponsors, with twenty one Senate members one fifth

886
00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:16,880
Speaker 4: of the Senate already saying that they endorse this idea

887
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:19,040
Speaker 4: and that they want to have this happen.

888
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:20,279
Speaker 2: What does that mean.

889
00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:24,680
Speaker 4: It means that right now we have the opportunity to

890
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:30,360
Speaker 4: accumulate support for this legislation and have that legislation be

891
00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:33,520
Speaker 4: brought up in committees so it can be debated, and

892
00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:37,040
Speaker 4: other Senators aren't engaged on this issue can become aware

893
00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:40,160
Speaker 4: of it, and you know, when the right opportunity comes,

894
00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:43,399
Speaker 4: which you know, maybe during this session, but more likely

895
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:46,040
Speaker 4: than not, we'll have to wait until the next session

896
00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:49,960
Speaker 4: of Congress. We have the opportunity to actually pass this legislation,

897
00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:54,439
Speaker 4: have Congress officially commit to offering voters in Puerto Rico

898
00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:58,600
Speaker 4: definitive choice among the non territory options, and then ultimately

899
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:01,960
Speaker 4: let Puerto Rico decide its future. And I firmly believe

900
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:04,839
Speaker 4: that if Congress offers the US citizens of Puerto Rico

901
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:08,520
Speaker 4: the opportunity to choose between statehood, independence or independence with

902
00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:12,160
Speaker 4: free association, that an overwhelming majority of voters are going

903
00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:15,319
Speaker 4: to choose statehood because I think they think that that's

904
00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:18,840
Speaker 4: the best option for Puerto Rico, and they also feel

905
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:22,880
Speaker 4: very strongly that it's the best option for strengthening American democracy.

906
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:25,840
Speaker 2: Explain to me what happened yesterday.

907
00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:30,320
Speaker 4: So yesterday we had a historic press conference. A Senator

908
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:34,120
Speaker 4: Martin Heinrich led the introduction of a bill called the

909
00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:38,120
Speaker 4: Puerto Rico Status Act. This is the Senate companion to

910
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:40,040
Speaker 4: the House bill that I mentioned was passed in the

911
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:44,040
Speaker 4: House last session, was introduced, reintroduced again this session of Congress.

912
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:47,600
Speaker 4: He had twenty one members of the Senate in total

913
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:51,239
Speaker 4: participating as sponsors of the bill. The Governor of Puerto Rico,

914
00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:55,240
Speaker 4: Pedro pier Luisi, who's a Democrat nationally, he was there

915
00:45:55,480 --> 00:46:00,560
Speaker 4: and was endorsing this completely. And Puerto Rico's a Resident Commissioner,

916
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:04,560
Speaker 4: which is our non voting member in the House of Representatives,

917
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:08,360
Speaker 4: Jennifer Gonzales Coloone who's a Republican, she was there endorsing

918
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:12,520
Speaker 4: this too. So it really sets the stage for the

919
00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:17,160
Speaker 4: opportunity to build on what happened you know last session,

920
00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:19,560
Speaker 4: where the House passed this and the Senate didn't have

921
00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:21,719
Speaker 4: the opportunity to take action. Well, now we've got to

922
00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:24,399
Speaker 4: build in the Senate. We've got the opportunity to get

923
00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:27,960
Speaker 4: Senate members on it and be able to push for

924
00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:32,120
Speaker 4: that to be advanced in the legislative process. And one

925
00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:35,160
Speaker 4: fascinating fact is that if you look at the senators

926
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:38,520
Speaker 4: who supported it, you have people from all the way

927
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:43,560
Speaker 4: to the left like Bernie Sanders to Senator Bennett from Colorado,

928
00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:46,480
Speaker 4: which is, you know, one of the more centrist and

929
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:49,880
Speaker 4: moderate Democrats. So it really shows kind of a wide

930
00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:53,279
Speaker 4: swath of ideological support for this legislation.

931
00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:56,759
Speaker 2: I mean, how would Republicans pass something like this?

932
00:46:57,480 --> 00:47:00,000
Speaker 4: Well, in the House, I think right now it's very

933
00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:00,479
Speaker 4: very tough.

934
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:03,560
Speaker 2: You really have to have control of all three branches

935
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:03,920
Speaker 2: to do.

936
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:06,759
Speaker 4: This, right, I think that that's the most likely scenario.

937
00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:09,279
Speaker 4: But let's think a little bit here, and it has

938
00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:13,760
Speaker 4: to do with the Republican politics, right. So the common

939
00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:16,480
Speaker 4: knowledge that Republicans have is that if Puerto Rico were

940
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:20,520
Speaker 4: a state, would practically add two Senate Democrats and you know,

941
00:47:20,719 --> 00:47:24,720
Speaker 4: four Democrat House members. The electoral politics in Puerto Rico

942
00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:28,719
Speaker 4: don't really back that up, right, So our current governor

943
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:31,840
Speaker 4: is a Democrat, our current Resident Commission of Congress. As

944
00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:35,319
Speaker 4: a Republican, she has been the top vote getter in

945
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:38,440
Speaker 4: Puerto Rico elections for the last three election cycles, and she

946
00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:42,960
Speaker 4: recently announced that she's actually challenging the governor in a

947
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:46,399
Speaker 4: primary in Puerto Rico. Because in Puerto Rico, they're both

948
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:49,440
Speaker 4: part of the pro statehood party right, which is the

949
00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:53,840
Speaker 4: one that fields candidates on the ballot, So Republicans actually

950
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:57,879
Speaker 4: have a base of conservative support in Puerto Rico. They

951
00:47:57,920 --> 00:48:01,200
Speaker 4: just have to realize that it's there appeal to those

952
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:04,640
Speaker 4: voters as opposed to just presuming that just because we're Hispanics,

953
00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:07,919
Speaker 4: we're going to automatically vote Democrat. So there's a little

954
00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:10,480
Speaker 4: bit of education that needs to happen there on the

955
00:48:10,520 --> 00:48:14,920
Speaker 4: Republican side. I believe that there is a possibility that,

956
00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:19,319
Speaker 4: looking at the close election that we're looking forward to

957
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:22,080
Speaker 4: in twenty twenty four, our Republicans are going to have

958
00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:24,360
Speaker 4: to take a look at those Puerto Rican voters because

959
00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:28,359
Speaker 4: they're not just on the island in three point two million, right,

960
00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:32,200
Speaker 4: but stateside, there's a population of five point eight million

961
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:36,160
Speaker 4: Puerto Ricans, and they're not just in solid Democrat states

962
00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:42,560
Speaker 4: like New York they're also in states like Florida, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Georgia, Wisconsin, Arizona,

963
00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:45,800
Speaker 4: and in all of those states, even just a few

964
00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:50,160
Speaker 4: thousand votes can tilt the balance of the electoral college right.

965
00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:54,400
Speaker 1: And it's also it's ultimately even more than that, like

966
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:58,560
Speaker 1: this is a state. These are people who are American

967
00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:01,839
Speaker 1: citizens who don't have the same rights as everyone else.

968
00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:05,600
Speaker 4: Well, most definitely, I think that anyone on the Republican

969
00:49:05,640 --> 00:49:08,439
Speaker 4: side or the Democratic side that's looking at this from

970
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:12,960
Speaker 4: a perspective of our core values as a country. America

971
00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:15,719
Speaker 4: has founded on the idea of government by consent of

972
00:49:15,719 --> 00:49:19,160
Speaker 4: the government. That's literally why we fought the American Revolution,

973
00:49:19,480 --> 00:49:24,440
Speaker 4: and territory status goes directly against that. Holding fellow US

974
00:49:24,520 --> 00:49:28,680
Speaker 4: citizens under a permanent territory status where they don't have

975
00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:31,600
Speaker 4: a say in the federal laws that they live under,

976
00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:34,360
Speaker 4: and then on top of that they're treated unequally and

977
00:49:34,520 --> 00:49:37,920
Speaker 4: worse than everyone else under those laws, that's un American.

978
00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:41,239
Speaker 4: So on a principal basis, I think it's absolutely one

979
00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:45,279
Speaker 4: hundred percent clear, and there's many Republicans that want you

980
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:48,360
Speaker 4: talk about it from a constitutional perspective, and that principles

981
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:50,719
Speaker 4: basis they really get it and they're on board with

982
00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:53,840
Speaker 4: it. It's the politics and the short term thinking that really

983
00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:57,120
Speaker 4: gets in the way of much of their potential for

984
00:49:57,480 --> 00:49:59,879
Speaker 4: supporting this further. And that's part of what we're trying

985
00:49:59,920 --> 00:50:03,160
Speaker 4: to to cut across now in our outreach efforts and

986
00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:06,320
Speaker 4: our education efforts in the port Eco fifty first.

987
00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:10,040
Speaker 1: Such an interesting project. I mean, do you need volunteers,

988
00:50:10,080 --> 00:50:12,040
Speaker 1: do you need money? What do you guys need?

989
00:50:12,320 --> 00:50:16,920
Speaker 4: So right now, our biggest need is for our fellow citizens'

990
00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:20,839
Speaker 4: stateside to contact their members of Congress, to reach out

991
00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:24,000
Speaker 4: to their representatives and senators. You can go onto our

992
00:50:24,040 --> 00:50:26,680
Speaker 4: website at PR fifty first dot com and click on

993
00:50:26,719 --> 00:50:29,640
Speaker 4: the take action button. We've got a web form that

994
00:50:29,680 --> 00:50:32,400
Speaker 4: you can use to reach out to your members of

995
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:36,040
Speaker 4: Congress to let them know that America shouldn't be holding colonies.

996
00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:40,360
Speaker 4: That America needs to make sure that all its citizens

997
00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:42,959
Speaker 4: have the opportunity to have a say in the type

998
00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:45,480
Speaker 4: of government that they live under. And in the case

999
00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:48,000
Speaker 4: of the three point two million US citizens of Puerto Rico,

1000
00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:52,440
Speaker 4: we're being held as a territory on behalf of American

1001
00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:56,920
Speaker 4: citizens by Congress. So you guys have the power contacting

1002
00:50:56,920 --> 00:50:59,760
Speaker 4: your members of Congress to tell them, you know, sponsor

1003
00:50:59,800 --> 00:51:03,799
Speaker 4: this legislation, the Puerto Rico Status Act, and provide a

1004
00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:07,920
Speaker 4: pathway out of territory status for our fellow citizens in

1005
00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:10,800
Speaker 4: Puerto Rico. And that's not only going to help Puerto

1006
00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:15,680
Speaker 4: Rico significantly improve its local situation, but ultimately in a

1007
00:51:15,719 --> 00:51:20,120
Speaker 4: strengthen American democracy, because right now there's a lack of

1008
00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:25,160
Speaker 4: representation of US citizens in Congress, where we're passing laws

1009
00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:27,680
Speaker 4: that impact people in Puerto Rico, but we don't have

1010
00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:30,279
Speaker 4: any representation in the Senate, and in the House we

1011
00:51:30,360 --> 00:51:33,759
Speaker 4: only get one member that can speak on the flour

1012
00:51:34,040 --> 00:51:38,920
Speaker 4: but ultimately can't vote on bills that impact their constituents.

1013
00:51:38,960 --> 00:51:42,359
Speaker 2: So insane. Thank you so much for coming on.

1014
00:51:42,719 --> 00:51:45,120
Speaker 4: No, thank you so much, Molly. I greatly appreciate it,

1015
00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:49,040
Speaker 4: and definitely, if there's any opportunities to provide further updates

1016
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:52,160
Speaker 4: on this issue or any other information that would be

1017
00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:54,480
Speaker 4: helpful for you or your audience, would love to be

1018
00:51:54,560 --> 00:51:59,440
Speaker 4: back here and continue showcasing the growth of this issue,

1019
00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:02,320
Speaker 4: which is, you know, not just an issue for elected officials,

1020
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:05,439
Speaker 4: but it's really a citizens movement from people in Puerto Rico.

1021
00:52:05,640 --> 00:52:08,000
Speaker 4: As well as all of our allies and supporter state

1022
00:52:08,080 --> 00:52:10,600
Speaker 4: side that together are going to make the difference and

1023
00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:13,480
Speaker 4: change the course of American history for the better. Yeah,

1024
00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:21,680
Speaker 4: thank you, Thank you so much, Jesse Cannon.

1025
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:26,480
Speaker 2: Molly junk Fest. The news just broke. That seems pretty disturbing.

1026
00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:31,880
Speaker 2: What do you see in here? Fucking guy? Can we

1027
00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:34,080
Speaker 2: just cue Nandor from what we do in the shadows?

1028
00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:38,920
Speaker 1: Yes? And guy, fucking guy, this fucking guy, as to

1029
00:52:39,080 --> 00:52:46,719
Speaker 1: quote Nandor Saten Island's best resident. That fucking guy, the

1030
00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:53,240
Speaker 1: Senator from West Virginia, Joe Manchin, messed up the Inflation

1031
00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:58,120
Speaker 1: Reduction Act, now trying to mess up the twenty twenty

1032
00:52:58,160 --> 00:53:02,880
Speaker 1: for president. See, Joe Manchin is not going to run

1033
00:53:03,239 --> 00:53:06,880
Speaker 1: for reelection, but instead he's going to going to do

1034
00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:09,840
Speaker 1: a listening tour, which means he's going to try and

1035
00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:13,200
Speaker 1: run for president and mess up the election for Joe

1036
00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:16,799
Speaker 1: Biden and bring us back into fascism. And that is

1037
00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:22,400
Speaker 1: why Joe Manchin occupies our moment of fuck. Right. That's

1038
00:53:22,440 --> 00:53:26,680
Speaker 1: it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday,

1039
00:53:26,719 --> 00:53:29,600
Speaker 1: and Friday to hear the best minds in politics makes

1040
00:53:29,680 --> 00:53:32,959
Speaker 1: sense of all this chaos. If you enjoyed what you've heard,

1041
00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:36,280
Speaker 1: please send it to a friend and keep the conversation going.

1042
00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:38,360
Speaker 1: And again thanks for listening.