WEBVTT - Private Equity Selling Their Equity, TD's Billion Dollar Scam

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<v Speaker 3>One story that caught my eye today I actually had

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<v Speaker 3>to do with private equity firms and private equity firms

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<v Speaker 3>getting rid of their equity and the liquidity in the

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<v Speaker 3>market always a big question, but even more so now

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<v Speaker 3>as the IPO market in the amity market kind of

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<v Speaker 3>goes nowhere fast. Claire Ruckin is a Bloomberg News senior

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<v Speaker 3>reporter and she joins us on in the story. Claire,

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<v Speaker 3>we are kind of waiting for the private equity guys

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<v Speaker 3>to like offload all their stakes and companies this year.

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<v Speaker 4>Is that happening. It's not happening at the moment.

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<v Speaker 5>There's a bit of a sign of life, but it's

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<v Speaker 5>it's nowhere near where they wanted it to be. And

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<v Speaker 5>so because it's nowhere near where they wanted it to be,

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<v Speaker 5>they have to get creative and do other types of

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<v Speaker 5>dills in order to try and show some returns to shareholders,

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<v Speaker 5>and that's by dividends. They're loading their portfolio companies with

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<v Speaker 5>debts and they're taking it out as a dividend to

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<v Speaker 5>show some sort of distribution.

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<v Speaker 6>What are the lenders saying here, because I mean, you know,

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<v Speaker 6>this is a dividend recap, that's what we used to

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<v Speaker 6>call it back in the day here, and that's not

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<v Speaker 6>the type of loan that you generally like to make.

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<v Speaker 6>But it seems like lenders are going to step up here.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, so we're still calling at dividen recaps. They're happening

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<v Speaker 5>quite a lot. If you look at like where dillflow's

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<v Speaker 5>coming from, you've got a lot of like refinancing of

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<v Speaker 5>existing debt and then you've also got these dividends now happening.

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<v Speaker 5>It's like the next stage on Because the debt markets

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<v Speaker 5>are so hot, so there's been a record level of

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<v Speaker 5>inflows into credit funds and collacterize loan obligations, which are

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<v Speaker 5>the biggest buyers of loans, and they're desperate to put

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<v Speaker 5>their money to work. And because there's been a lack

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<v Speaker 5>of M and A and a lack of new places

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<v Speaker 5>to put this money, sponsors have been able to get creative.

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<v Speaker 5>That's private epty firms, and they are doing dividend recaps,

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<v Speaker 5>so they're adding debt onto companies and taking it out

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<v Speaker 5>in the former dividends. And this is something that investors

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<v Speaker 5>traditionally don't like because obviously you're piling leverage onto a company,

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<v Speaker 5>and it's something that's usually a nog. But because the

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<v Speaker 5>debt markets are so hot at the moment, they're like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 5>this is great. It's a new place to you know,

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<v Speaker 5>put new capital, and so they're giving the go ahead

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<v Speaker 5>to them. Basically, so we have seen quite a bit

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<v Speaker 5>of volatility hit the market at the moment because the

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<v Speaker 5>Trump and tariffs and Dell's are starting to get pulled.

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<v Speaker 5>But the ones that are not the dividend recaps.

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<v Speaker 3>So usually when we talk to private equity guys are like,

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<v Speaker 3>look like you're locketting your money five, seven, ten years,

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<v Speaker 3>it's going to be fine. We can manage any sort

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<v Speaker 3>of big swings in volatility. Does that still ring true

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<v Speaker 3>or are we seeing some issues here? When liquidity tightens up,

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<v Speaker 3>it gets harder and harder to find ways around it.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, that's right. They are having some difficulties. They're having

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<v Speaker 5>difficulties showing those exits. So whether it's via the IPO

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<v Speaker 5>market or the M and A market. They just haven't

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<v Speaker 5>come back yet to the level that they would have wanted.

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<v Speaker 5>We are seeing some dells happen. So Walgreen Boots was

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<v Speaker 5>a massive deal. It's most probably one of the biggest

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<v Speaker 5>LBO since the financial crisis, and that's something that banks

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<v Speaker 5>have piled into and they feel confident that they can

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<v Speaker 5>sell down to investors. But those megadills are few and

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<v Speaker 5>far between. We might see some mortil flow happening in

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<v Speaker 5>the second half, but it really it's not where people

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<v Speaker 5>would have wanted it to be, and therefore privateity firms

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<v Speaker 5>are having to get creative and investors are you know,

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<v Speaker 5>holding their noses and buying in Basically, this isn't the

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<v Speaker 5>type of dills that they would have liked. In essence,

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<v Speaker 5>you are piling debt onto companies, you're increasing leverage, but

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<v Speaker 5>it is an opportunity to invest new money, and therefore

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<v Speaker 5>they're doing it even if that means that the existing

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<v Speaker 5>debt is getting refinanced at a lower rate and therefore

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<v Speaker 5>they're getting a lower return on their money.

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<v Speaker 6>Clear one of the one of the key key variables

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<v Speaker 6>and these types of deals is what kind of return

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<v Speaker 6>does the equity investor get paid here on this dividend?

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<v Speaker 6>If I know, if this person, you know, investment firm,

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<v Speaker 6>put in a dollar and I loan them money for

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<v Speaker 6>a dividend recap, do I value that dollar at a dollar,

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<v Speaker 6>a dollar, fifty two dollars, three, three dollars. Are they

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<v Speaker 6>getting returns when they get these divnd recaps?

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<v Speaker 4>It depends.

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<v Speaker 5>It depends how much they're able to take out. I mean,

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<v Speaker 5>Clarios's is one of the biggest, most recent examples. It's

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<v Speaker 5>the biggest dividend recap that we've seen in a very

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<v Speaker 5>long time. They took out, they raised four point five

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<v Speaker 5>billion of debt and they took all of it out

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<v Speaker 5>as a dividend, and they got one and a half

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<v Speaker 5>time's return on their equity. And we are asking other

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<v Speaker 5>companies come back and they're issuing, you know, not just

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<v Speaker 5>one division, but it might be their second or their

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<v Speaker 5>third time that they're doing this. So in some instances

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<v Speaker 5>they're just getting their initial equity return or reducing the

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<v Speaker 5>amount of equity that they have in a company. But

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<v Speaker 5>in other instances, yeah, they're getting all their equity back,

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<v Speaker 5>if not more. And the debt markets are allowing for that,

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<v Speaker 5>there's a lot of money out there that needs to

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<v Speaker 5>be invested, and this is a place where they can

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<v Speaker 5>invest it. So there is a caveat. It has to

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<v Speaker 5>be for most probably a strong issuer, a well known

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<v Speaker 5>company with a borrower that you know that they know,

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<v Speaker 5>and a privateity sponsor that is liked.

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<v Speaker 4>Really great reporting.

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<v Speaker 3>It was such a great story I recommend that everyone

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<v Speaker 3>read it on the terminal there. Again, it's about private

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<v Speaker 3>equity firms getting rid of their equity. Claire, thank you

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<v Speaker 3>very much. Claire Reckon, Bloomberg News Senior Reporter.

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<v Speaker 2>You were listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast program live

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<v Speaker 3>Well later on today, Ukrainian President Vladimir Lenski will speak

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<v Speaker 3>with you, as President Donald Trump, following Trump's conversation with

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<v Speaker 3>Putin that lasted nearly two hours on a ceasefire yesterday.

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<v Speaker 3>Nasty Whitcoff is a White House Special Envoy to the

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<v Speaker 3>Middle East and he joined Bloomberg Surveillance this morning, and

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<v Speaker 3>when asked about a ceasefire between the two countries, he said,

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<v Speaker 3>it is very likely to happen.

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<v Speaker 7>What was agreed between the two presidents was, and it

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<v Speaker 7>was at President Trump's suggestion, that there'd be a cessation

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<v Speaker 7>of attacks on energy infrastructure from both sides and all

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<v Speaker 7>and civilian infrastructure for that matter, also working towards a

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<v Speaker 7>black Sea moratorium on hits on naval vessels and freighters

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<v Speaker 7>carrying grain and things of that, and ultimately that would

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<v Speaker 7>evolve into a full on ceasefire.

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<v Speaker 3>That was Steve Woodcoff, White House Special Envoy two the

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<v Speaker 3>Middle East. Let's get more perspective on this with Shelby McGee,

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<v Speaker 3>a Deputy Director of Eurasia Center at the Atlantic Council,

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<v Speaker 3>joining us now on this.

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<v Speaker 4>Lots of questions to unpack.

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<v Speaker 3>Here, Shelby, but based on what we saw overnight in

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<v Speaker 3>terms of some attacks, in terms of some attacks on

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<v Speaker 3>energy infrastructure, what did you make of where the ceasefire

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<v Speaker 3>is and where the reality is?

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<v Speaker 8>Thank you, and I'm glad you mentioned those attacks and

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<v Speaker 8>those are Russian attacks. Russia sent over one hundred and

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<v Speaker 8>fifty drones and hit Ukraine including taking out the power

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<v Speaker 8>in one city, hitting hospitals and other infrastructure. So what

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<v Speaker 8>we're seeing is that President Trump yesterday said and he

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<v Speaker 8>posted on true social that there was an immediate limited

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<v Speaker 8>agreement for a ceasefire and that would cover energy.

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<v Speaker 4>And I'm not sure.

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<v Speaker 8>How immediate that is because as we now see Russia

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<v Speaker 8>immediately violated it. They might say that this will be

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<v Speaker 8>a read on later looking at how to actually enact

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<v Speaker 8>this and execute it in the talks in the Middle

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<v Speaker 8>East with the US and Russia. But unfortunately, I do

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<v Speaker 8>think Wikkoff's assessment of the call in the situation is

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<v Speaker 8>a bit optimistic. Though we are moving in the direction

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<v Speaker 8>where we could see a c spire, but it doesn't

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<v Speaker 8>look like Putin's overall goals and demands have changed.

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<v Speaker 6>Shelby, as we sit at this stage here at the

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<v Speaker 6>US slash Ukraine on one side, and maybe I don't

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<v Speaker 6>Russia on the other, is there where's the leverage right now?

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<v Speaker 6>Do you think so?

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<v Speaker 8>Of course, the US has leverage, and we saw President

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<v Speaker 8>Trump using that leverage against Ukraine and that was a

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<v Speaker 8>painful roller coaster. But I think we're in an okay

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<v Speaker 8>position there right now. But Trump also threatened recently that

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<v Speaker 8>there's still more leverage and pressure that he can put

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<v Speaker 8>against Russia. There is more economic pressure that we can

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<v Speaker 8>do with increased sanctions, and I believe Senator Lindsay Graham

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<v Speaker 8>also is preparing a package of legislation that could put

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<v Speaker 8>that pain on Russia as well.

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<v Speaker 3>What do you think the conversation is going to be

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<v Speaker 3>later on today, when Zelenski and Trump wind up having

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<v Speaker 3>this phone conversation in light of the last twenty four hours.

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<v Speaker 8>I'm glad they're speaking. It's really important that Ukraine is

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<v Speaker 8>not left out of this conversation, and it's great that

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<v Speaker 8>President Trump is taking the time to speak to him. Immediately,

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<v Speaker 8>I imagine that President Zolensky will point to the Kremlins readout

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<v Speaker 8>of the call, which differed from the White House readout.

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<v Speaker 8>The Kremlins readout reiterated many of these maximalist demands that

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<v Speaker 8>Putin has that are red lines for Ukraine and truly

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<v Speaker 8>would be existential threats to their security. So Zelenski will

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<v Speaker 8>point to that. He'll talk about the damage that Ukraine's

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<v Speaker 8>all every night. But Zelensky will also smartly, I hope

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<v Speaker 8>thank the US for the continued engagement and support, and

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<v Speaker 8>also talk about Ukraine's willingness and desire for peace, because

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<v Speaker 8>as we've seen, Putin and Russia are the obstacle.

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<v Speaker 6>So I guess just yesterday's call, some could read it

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<v Speaker 6>as a disappointment that Russia did not agree to the

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<v Speaker 6>seaspire as Ukraine has done.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you read it that way?

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<v Speaker 8>I'm not surprised. I am disappointed with everything that Russia does, frankly,

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<v Speaker 8>but I read it as a positive, neutral or slightly

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<v Speaker 8>positive on the US side, And that is actually more

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<v Speaker 8>important because we did not see President Trump move away

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<v Speaker 8>from support for Ukraine. We did not see him bend

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<v Speaker 8>too many of these demands from Putin, and on the

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<v Speaker 8>Russian side, they're stalling for time. Putin is very good

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<v Speaker 8>at playing people, and so I hope that Trump does

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<v Speaker 8>not get played well.

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<v Speaker 3>To that point, what was interesting is that Steve Woodcop,

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<v Speaker 3>the White House Special Envoy, said that we're gonna trust

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<v Speaker 3>Putin and take him at his word.

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<v Speaker 4>What is the history in that happening.

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<v Speaker 8>The history is that you should never take Putin at

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<v Speaker 8>his words. So again, as I said earlier, that's an

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<v Speaker 8>optimistic take. Of course, you need to listen to what

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<v Speaker 8>Putin is saying, but you also need to look at

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<v Speaker 8>his actions. As for the history, Russia has violated ceasefire

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<v Speaker 8>agreements with Ukraine. I don't know the exact number of times,

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<v Speaker 8>think it's in between one hundred and two hundred times

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<v Speaker 8>over the Menska agreements. And they continuously act aggressively even

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<v Speaker 8>after they say they won't and that they want peace,

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<v Speaker 8>that they care about saving human lives. And Putin has

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<v Speaker 8>shown he doesn't even care about the lives of his

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<v Speaker 8>own soldiers.

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<v Speaker 6>So I guess you know. White House special Onenway wid

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<v Speaker 6>Coughin did say that the seasfire could happen in a

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<v Speaker 6>couple of weeks. Do you share that timeline view?

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<v Speaker 8>I think that could be realistic. It depends on what

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<v Speaker 8>the US continues to push on Russia. I do think

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<v Speaker 8>that Putin and the Russians are hesitant to completely say

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<v Speaker 8>no to Trump and risk hurting their warming relationship and

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<v Speaker 8>angering him, So a ceasefire there's a lot to work

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<v Speaker 8>out on the technicality side. Ukraine is not the hold up,

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<v Speaker 8>so we'll have to see. But I think i'd say

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<v Speaker 8>sooner than a couple of weeks does not seem likely,

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<v Speaker 8>But a lot of discussions can happen in a couple

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<v Speaker 8>of weeks, so maybe.

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<v Speaker 3>Maybe it doesn't sound like you're particularly optimistic necessarily. What role,

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<v Speaker 3>if I'm paraphrasing you, what role do you think that

0:12:05.600 --> 0:12:07.760
<v Speaker 3>europe will be playing in this Because we make a

0:12:07.760 --> 0:12:12.280
<v Speaker 3>lot of hay about Germany expanding its ability to reindustrialize

0:12:12.280 --> 0:12:14.920
<v Speaker 3>and rearm, but all of that's going to take a while.

0:12:15.000 --> 0:12:17.160
<v Speaker 4>In your estimation, what does that part of the story

0:12:17.200 --> 0:12:17.560
<v Speaker 4>look like.

0:12:18.120 --> 0:12:20.080
<v Speaker 8>That's a good question, and you were right in your

0:12:20.120 --> 0:12:23.400
<v Speaker 8>paraphrasing of me. I'm not overly optimistic, but I do

0:12:23.440 --> 0:12:26.480
<v Speaker 8>feel better when I look at the European angle. I

0:12:26.559 --> 0:12:30.040
<v Speaker 8>don't see a European role in the upcoming negotiations on

0:12:30.040 --> 0:12:32.480
<v Speaker 8>the ceasefire, which I think is a mistake because they

0:12:32.559 --> 0:12:35.760
<v Speaker 8>have a huge stake here. But what has been great

0:12:36.120 --> 0:12:39.960
<v Speaker 8>is that while the catalyst was unfortunate following the Oval

0:12:40.000 --> 0:12:45.199
<v Speaker 8>Office blow up with Trump and Zelenski, you're really stepped

0:12:45.240 --> 0:12:47.800
<v Speaker 8>up their commitment and their action, and we've seen a

0:12:47.840 --> 0:12:50.200
<v Speaker 8>lot of progress, and they're trying to do more than

0:12:50.280 --> 0:12:53.240
<v Speaker 8>just words and meetings. So we see movements about this

0:12:53.320 --> 0:12:56.040
<v Speaker 8>idea of a coalition of the willing that would be

0:12:56.760 --> 0:12:59.719
<v Speaker 8>European forces to go in after a peace agreement. Of course,

0:12:59.760 --> 0:13:02.560
<v Speaker 8>we're not out there yet. We see more commitments on

0:13:02.600 --> 0:13:05.720
<v Speaker 8>European defense and the moves in Germany are really important.

0:13:06.080 --> 0:13:09.040
<v Speaker 8>And this all adds up to signs and signals to

0:13:09.080 --> 0:13:10.040
<v Speaker 8>poot in two.

0:13:10.200 --> 0:13:11.640
<v Speaker 4>So I think it all is.

0:13:11.640 --> 0:13:13.920
<v Speaker 8>Positive, but we might not see the immediate effect.

0:13:14.600 --> 0:13:17.000
<v Speaker 6>All right, Shelby, thank you so much. Really appreciate getting

0:13:17.000 --> 0:13:21.679
<v Speaker 6>your thoughts here. Shelby McGee, Deputy Director, Atlantic Council's Eurasia Center.

0:13:25.960 --> 0:13:29.720
<v Speaker 2>You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live

0:13:29.800 --> 0:13:32.800
<v Speaker 2>weekdays at ten am Easter on Apple car Play and

0:13:32.800 --> 0:13:35.840
<v Speaker 2>Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand

0:13:35.880 --> 0:13:40.320
<v Speaker 2>wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.

0:13:40.440 --> 0:13:42.840
<v Speaker 4>Every day. We like to delve into the big take stories.

0:13:42.920 --> 0:13:46.400
<v Speaker 3>They're deep, deep, deep reporting and digging onto the top

0:13:46.480 --> 0:13:50.199
<v Speaker 3>financial business and economic stories of our time. And the

0:13:50.320 --> 0:13:54.920
<v Speaker 3>latest one today has to do with TD Securities, Tidbank,

0:13:54.920 --> 0:14:00.720
<v Speaker 3>I should say, losing billions in a money laundering scam complicated,

0:14:00.800 --> 0:14:02.800
<v Speaker 3>and we're here to help break it down for you.

0:14:02.880 --> 0:14:06.360
<v Speaker 3>David Arrakis is a Bloomberg law reporter. David, can you

0:14:06.400 --> 0:14:10.000
<v Speaker 3>just remind US as to what this story is actually about.

0:14:10.960 --> 0:14:15.240
<v Speaker 1>This is a major money laundering scandal involving TD Bank

0:14:15.800 --> 0:14:20.360
<v Speaker 1>after it did a large expansion in the United States,

0:14:20.880 --> 0:14:26.840
<v Speaker 1>and the bank pleaded guilty to conspiracy to commit money

0:14:26.880 --> 0:14:30.240
<v Speaker 1>laundering in federal court in New Jersey last year, and

0:14:30.280 --> 0:14:33.760
<v Speaker 1>it paid a three point one billion dollar fine to

0:14:33.880 --> 0:14:38.520
<v Speaker 1>various US agencies. What became clear and what our story

0:14:38.640 --> 0:14:44.960
<v Speaker 1>is about, is how TD Bank failed to implement basic

0:14:45.040 --> 0:14:49.520
<v Speaker 1>money laundering controls that all banks are required to use

0:14:49.960 --> 0:14:55.240
<v Speaker 1>so that criminals cannot wash money, as they say, into

0:14:55.280 --> 0:14:56.400
<v Speaker 1>the financial system.

0:14:57.120 --> 0:14:59.200
<v Speaker 6>Well, I've learned all about this money laundering thing for

0:14:59.240 --> 0:15:02.200
<v Speaker 6>various TV shows, you know, including Breast Breaking Bad. That's

0:15:02.240 --> 0:15:04.120
<v Speaker 6>where I get most of my knowledge is from you know,

0:15:04.440 --> 0:15:07.680
<v Speaker 6>Breaking Note that this happened in the great state of

0:15:07.680 --> 0:15:11.880
<v Speaker 6>New Jersey. That's how we do that is coincidence, folks.

0:15:12.520 --> 0:15:16.840
<v Speaker 6>All right, So David, if you're Toronto Dominion, how did

0:15:16.840 --> 0:15:19.480
<v Speaker 6>this happen? How does this stuff like go undetected in

0:15:19.600 --> 0:15:20.560
<v Speaker 6>such size like this?

0:15:21.920 --> 0:15:26.480
<v Speaker 1>Well, what happened was TD Bank expanded rapidly over a

0:15:26.560 --> 0:15:31.480
<v Speaker 1>decade and spent something like twenty billion dollars to increase

0:15:31.560 --> 0:15:34.600
<v Speaker 1>its footprint in the United States, and as it did that,

0:15:36.520 --> 0:15:40.440
<v Speaker 1>it was also supposed to scale up its anti money

0:15:40.480 --> 0:15:45.520
<v Speaker 1>laundering controls. However, it failed to do that and there

0:15:45.520 --> 0:15:49.560
<v Speaker 1>were a lot of red flags along the way indicating

0:15:50.040 --> 0:15:55.560
<v Speaker 1>that its system was not working and because of its

0:15:55.640 --> 0:15:59.120
<v Speaker 1>cost cutting measures, it did not spend the money it

0:15:59.200 --> 0:16:02.760
<v Speaker 1>needed to spend and to make sure that criminals were

0:16:02.800 --> 0:16:07.160
<v Speaker 1>not accessing its branches. And I would just say that

0:16:08.360 --> 0:16:12.880
<v Speaker 1>the story really begins when we talk about a Chinese

0:16:12.920 --> 0:16:16.760
<v Speaker 1>born businessman in Queens, New York named David C who

0:16:16.840 --> 0:16:22.200
<v Speaker 1>had gotten into money laundering, and he, as part of

0:16:22.240 --> 0:16:29.040
<v Speaker 1>his money laundering organization, helped drug dealers put their money

0:16:29.120 --> 0:16:35.720
<v Speaker 1>into the financial system, and through a series of tests,

0:16:36.120 --> 0:16:41.200
<v Speaker 1>he determined that the controls at TD Bank were the

0:16:41.240 --> 0:16:44.280
<v Speaker 1>most lacks of any of the banks that he used,

0:16:44.720 --> 0:16:48.960
<v Speaker 1>and so he was able to bribe tellers to be

0:16:49.040 --> 0:16:54.160
<v Speaker 1>able to put large sacks of cash into the bank.

0:16:54.480 --> 0:16:59.160
<v Speaker 1>And the bank was supposed to follow federal regulations to

0:16:59.280 --> 0:17:03.400
<v Speaker 1>ask a lot more questions than they did. For instance,

0:17:03.560 --> 0:17:07.760
<v Speaker 1>if someone wants to put more than ten thousand dollars

0:17:07.800 --> 0:17:11.520
<v Speaker 1>in cash into the bank, the bank is supposed to

0:17:11.560 --> 0:17:15.920
<v Speaker 1>file a report called a currency transaction report, which alerts

0:17:16.600 --> 0:17:22.960
<v Speaker 1>the Treasury Department to this deposit, and in hundreds of instances,

0:17:23.400 --> 0:17:29.000
<v Speaker 1>TD Bank did not file accurate currency transaction reports about

0:17:29.119 --> 0:17:32.880
<v Speaker 1>the deposits made by David C and the people he

0:17:33.000 --> 0:17:37.720
<v Speaker 1>was working with in this criminal enterprise, and so that

0:17:37.880 --> 0:17:44.480
<v Speaker 1>allowed CIS organization to launder more than five hundred million dollars.

0:17:45.480 --> 0:17:49.439
<v Speaker 1>Even though the regulations were in place and the bank

0:17:49.520 --> 0:17:52.479
<v Speaker 1>knew what it was supposed to do, it failed to

0:17:52.520 --> 0:17:56.880
<v Speaker 1>do so. And more than two dozen people have now

0:17:56.920 --> 0:18:02.920
<v Speaker 1>been criminally charged as a result of the investigation stemming

0:18:02.960 --> 0:18:08.280
<v Speaker 1>from TD Bank. David C has pleaded guilty, he's awaiting sentencing,

0:18:09.080 --> 0:18:14.360
<v Speaker 1>and there's several bank insiders who've also been criminally charged

0:18:15.400 --> 0:18:16.680
<v Speaker 1>by the Justice Department.

0:18:17.160 --> 0:18:19.080
<v Speaker 4>All right, we really appreciate it. Thank you so much.

0:18:19.119 --> 0:18:22.040
<v Speaker 3>David David rikas Bloomberg Legal reporter joining us in that

0:18:22.080 --> 0:18:22.440
<v Speaker 3>Big Take.

0:18:22.480 --> 0:18:24.040
<v Speaker 4>Definitely check it out in the Bloomberg terminal.

0:18:24.080 --> 0:18:28.280
<v Speaker 3>Also Bloomberg dot com slash Big Take the money laundering

0:18:28.320 --> 0:18:30.600
<v Speaker 3>scams that cost TD Bank billions.

0:18:30.680 --> 0:18:32.480
<v Speaker 4>Wow, something you know.

0:18:32.480 --> 0:18:35.840
<v Speaker 6>Having learned about this on various television shows, The hard

0:18:35.840 --> 0:18:38.760
<v Speaker 6>part of being a criminals is laundering the money. I think,

0:18:38.800 --> 0:18:41.919
<v Speaker 6>I mean, how do you take your all those you know,

0:18:42.000 --> 0:18:44.399
<v Speaker 6>singles and fives and tens and put him into a

0:18:44.400 --> 0:18:45.720
<v Speaker 6>bank and write checks and do all that kind of

0:18:45.720 --> 0:18:46.720
<v Speaker 6>stuff atm cards.

0:18:47.000 --> 0:18:48.560
<v Speaker 4>Hey, you know, it's tough stuff. It's a lot of work.

0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:49.280
<v Speaker 4>It's a lot of work.

0:18:49.280 --> 0:18:49.840
<v Speaker 8>He needs to do that.

0:18:49.880 --> 0:18:50.240
<v Speaker 6>There you go.

0:18:51.440 --> 0:18:55.840
<v Speaker 2>This is a Bloomberg Intelligence podcast, available on Apple, Spotify,

0:18:55.960 --> 0:18:59.240
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0:18:59.280 --> 0:19:02.520
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0:19:02.600 --> 0:19:06.080
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0:19:06.119 --> 0:19:09.199
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0:19:09.280 --> 0:19:10.959
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