Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of Civic CZICHERI Army host Ramsey's Jah.
Speaker 2: He is ramses Jah, I am q Ward and you
Speaker 2: are tuned in too, say excited for us?
Speaker 1: Indeed, be sure to stick around. Had a crazy week
Speaker 1: this week, A lot of crazy stuff going on, So
Speaker 1: we are going to talk about all of it, not
Speaker 1: the least of which is p and b Rock. That's tough,
Speaker 1: and we're gonna sit with that. We need to sit
Speaker 1: with that. It's very important that we do. So we're
Speaker 1: going to take some time and go over that. We're
Speaker 1: also going to talk about a lot of the backlash
Speaker 1: that we've been seeing in you know, some popular television
Speaker 1: serieses serieses. I think that's how I say that. In particular,
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about the backlash to our new
Speaker 1: black Little Mermaid, as well as some other shows including
Speaker 1: A House of the Dragon, which is a Game of
Speaker 1: On spin off, and The Rings of Power, which is
Speaker 1: a Lord of the Ring spin off, and the backlash
Speaker 1: against black characters who exist in imaginary worlds. We're going
Speaker 1: to spend some time talking about someone who deserves his
Speaker 1: just due, the filmmaker Oscar Michell, a very profound black filmmaker,
Speaker 1: and we're going to dedicate our way Black History factor
Speaker 1: him and everything else. Unfortunately, this week we had to
Speaker 1: leave a lot of stuff on the cutting room floor,
Speaker 1: but there are going to be some other things that
Speaker 1: naturally make their way into this show because again, it's
Speaker 1: been a very very busy week out there. The Devil's
Speaker 1: been busy, as they say. But first and foremost, we
Speaker 1: are going to start off on a positive note. If
Speaker 1: you've seen the Emmys, we're going to dedicate our Ebony
Speaker 1: excellence to the IBNY, to the to the Emmys. That's
Speaker 1: all right with c shall we shall? So this week's
Speaker 1: Ebony Excellence, we're going to shout out Sharlee Ralph. The
Speaker 1: article comes from The Atlantic and this of course is
Speaker 1: sponsored by Hip Hop Weekly Media. In the minutes after
Speaker 1: the actor won Outstanding Supporting Actress in the Comedy Series,
Speaker 1: she sang and beamed and inspired the audience to leap
Speaker 1: to its feed again and again and again. Her acceptance
Speaker 1: speech was the kind of moment that television, live television
Speaker 1: in particular is made for, and he needs more of.
Speaker 1: If anyone who has ever ever had a dream and
Speaker 1: thought this dream wasn't or wouldn't come true. I'm here
Speaker 1: to tell you, this is what believing looks like, this
Speaker 1: is what striving looks like. And don't you ever ever
Speaker 1: give up on you. This is what she said. She
Speaker 1: of course thanked her family, her children, her friends, everyone
Speaker 1: that voted for her. And it wasn't just the speech itself,
Speaker 1: but you know, she's a respected performer who's been waiting
Speaker 1: decades since her starting in the late seventies to be
Speaker 1: recognized on this kind of mainstream level. Man in the
Speaker 1: room as soon as her name was called, seemed to
Speaker 1: understand how overdue her recognition had been, giving her a
Speaker 1: standing ovation even as she seemed too overwhelmed to leave
Speaker 1: her seat. You know when couldn't have been more fitting
Speaker 1: than for her role on Abbot Elementary, which is a
Speaker 1: comedy about an underfunded public school, where she stars as
Speaker 1: Barbara Howard, a teacher who in the protagonist played by
Speaker 1: the show's creator Keen t To Brunson, admires and considers
Speaker 1: her mentor. Barbara is a trailblazer. Ralph is the same.
Speaker 1: And that speech was magnificent.
Speaker 2: I want to add, she's such a great actress that
Speaker 2: I've been upset with her for like twenty years for
Speaker 2: not letting her fake daughter in a movie sing in
Speaker 2: the school a choir. So I just wanted to point
Speaker 2: that out. That's how good she is. I'm real life
Speaker 2: upset that Rita couldn't sing in the choir. Sister Act two.
Speaker 2: That's funny, that's funny.
Speaker 1: Well, you know, entertainment is a big part of our
Speaker 1: world and our culture in this country, and so this
Speaker 1: week you're going to notice that we're dealing with a
Speaker 1: lot of entertainment stuff. You know, Normally we deal with politics,
Speaker 1: we deal with you know, police sing, we deal with
Speaker 1: institutions that we consider to be white supremacist or otherwise
Speaker 1: have roots and white supremacy. But this has been a
Speaker 1: big week in entertainment, and so we're going to address that. Now.
Speaker 1: Have you seen the trailer for The Little Mermaid A
Speaker 1: little bit that's going on. I have.
Speaker 2: I watched it with my beautiful daughter. Oh yeah, we're
Speaker 2: both very excited about what's to come from the good
Speaker 2: old folks at Disney.
Speaker 1: So if you're like me, you saw The Little Mermaid
Speaker 1: in the early nineties, might have been late eighties, somewhere
Speaker 1: in there. Somewhere in there. Yeah, VHS you know where.
Speaker 1: I was born in eighty two. So Little Mermaid was
Speaker 1: one of the Disney masterpieces that came out. Disney would
Speaker 1: come out with a movie every year and everyone would
Speaker 1: go see it. It was an always an animated movie, and
Speaker 1: the character was a white, red headed mermaid figure. And
Speaker 1: there's another movie that I saw. I believe it was
Speaker 1: called Splash. Don't ask how I know that, because I
Speaker 1: don't remember anything. I remember that movie. Yeah, and it
Speaker 1: was about a mermaid too, it was, and the mermaid
Speaker 1: was a white, blonde haired woman this time. And I
Speaker 1: think that if you close your eyes and I say
Speaker 1: the word mermaid, the vision that comes into your head
Speaker 1: listening to my voice, now in your head, it's a
Speaker 1: white woman. Now, we the Black Delegation, we feel like we,
Speaker 1: you know, we could be mermaids. Do we could be?
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. It's so strange that we
Speaker 1: don't exist in the imaginations of people and their fantasies
Speaker 1: and these sorts of things. And when we do, it's
Speaker 1: such a big deal. But you know what, I'll be honest,
Speaker 1: because that's just the way the world has been. Oftentimes,
Speaker 1: we don't notice or recognize that we're underrepresented in certain areas, right,
Speaker 1: and so when I believe to be a group of allies,
Speaker 1: people who are like, hey, you know what, we need
Speaker 1: to change this. Why can't are be? But mermaids are
Speaker 1: fantasy creatures, you know what I'm saying. So we can
Speaker 1: use our men genation here and we can make a
Speaker 1: black mermaid and she can be a little girl and
Speaker 1: goes through you know what I'm saying. These experiences happened
Speaker 1: to black mermaids the same as you know, every other
Speaker 1: kind of mermaid. She were being mermaid. Yeah. So you
Speaker 1: know the group of people that allowed this decision to
Speaker 1: make its way to that trailer and then ultimately the movie,
Speaker 1: you know, they thought that this might be something that
Speaker 1: the world could use. You know, we've seen white mermaids
Speaker 1: for the entirety of our life, which is why if
Speaker 1: I say mermaid, this is an example of the platonic ideal.
Speaker 1: The image that pops into your head is a white
Speaker 1: woman with seashells for her braw and a green sort
Speaker 1: of fish tail. And you don't think of a man,
Speaker 1: You don't think you certainly don't think of someone black,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? And you know the people
Speaker 1: that decided to make this change. Are people that are
Speaker 1: being inclusive, which we applaud. We recognize the need for that.
Speaker 1: We want to exist in these fantasy lands too. We
Speaker 1: want to be represented in these places the same as
Speaker 1: anyone else, you know what I mean. The problem is
Speaker 1: the backlash, right, Okay, so the very expected backlash too.
Speaker 2: I'm sure Disney knew that they would get these types
Speaker 2: of responses, and.
Speaker 1: You know, if it was the only one it'd be,
Speaker 1: it wouldn't be fine. But but this has happened obviously
Speaker 1: a lot, just this month. So this is why we're
Speaker 1: talking about it. Anyway, I'll read So this comes by
Speaker 1: a news one. My aerial is black and she's swimming
Speaker 1: in white tears. So over the weekend, the trailer was
Speaker 1: released for the live action rendition of Disney's The Little Mermaid,
Speaker 1: starring black actress and singer Hallie Bailey as Ariel. And
Speaker 1: of course, the trailer's release has reopened the floodgates and
Speaker 1: put us under the sea of white peers we were
Speaker 1: already put under when it was first announced Bailey would
Speaker 1: be playing the lead role a few years ago. A
Speaker 1: lot of people are talking about what's called forced diversity
Speaker 1: in Hollywood and uh, the the author of this article
Speaker 1: makes a point of discussing forced whiteness, right, which you know,
Speaker 1: for folks who are listening to this, this is kind
Speaker 1: of what we were alluding to, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying it was a concerted effort of people
Speaker 1: got in the rooms like aeral needs to be white.
Speaker 1: You know, in the early nineties or early late eighties,
Speaker 1: it was just the default setting. You know, why would
Speaker 1: why would anybody even think of a mermaid being black?
Speaker 1: You know what I mean, because obviously whiteness was the default,
Speaker 1: which is kind of strange because human beings are black,
Speaker 1: meaning that if you like, go on Google maps and
Speaker 1: search Earth and guess where the pen is and to
Speaker 1: drop right in Africa where human beings first evolved with
Speaker 1: first you know, consciousness and the first creatures to be
Speaker 1: able to call themselves human beings. So this should in
Speaker 1: theory be the default, right. But you know, whiteness is
Speaker 1: the default in this country. And because this country really
Speaker 1: sets the uh the culture, global culture, you know, with
Speaker 1: our entertainment exports, you know, our film and language and
Speaker 1: you know all the other things fashion that sort of stuff.
Speaker 1: I really do applaud this effort of people trying to
Speaker 1: make Disney, trying to make right some of the wrongs
Speaker 1: that they have inactive on black people and some of
Speaker 1: the stereotypes that they perpetuated over the years. You know,
Speaker 1: there's new, more inclusive Disney is a very welcome Disney.
Speaker 1: In my book, my person, I want to speak for you, Q,
Speaker 1: but in my book, I think that this is something
Speaker 1: that is very necessary. I don't think that this is performative.
Speaker 1: I think that little girls will be able to see
Speaker 1: this and see that Aeriel is black, and you know,
Speaker 1: white tears is probably a strong term for me. I
Speaker 1: don't want to see anybody's tears, but I recognize the
Speaker 1: point that the author is making there in that. You know,
Speaker 1: for some reason, it's it's almost always a certain group
Speaker 1: of white folks. They tend to be very conservative, you know,
Speaker 1: very traditional, and they just don't like anything black. In fact,
Speaker 1: if it's black, they kind of actively push against it. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: over on this side, you know, a lot of times
Speaker 1: we find with our Hispanic brothers and sisters, our Asian
Speaker 1: you know, like a lot of communities of color, people
Speaker 1: who want into marginalized communities, inclusivity is kind of the
Speaker 1: name of the game. We kind of, yeah, let's bring
Speaker 1: more folks to our table. There are some notable exceptions
Speaker 1: or some people who have ideas that will never make
Speaker 1: their way to sit excipher and they're just as black
Speaker 1: as me and YouTube. But for the most part, our
Speaker 1: black culture tends to be very inclusive, and a lot
Speaker 1: of times when we find that, you know, when it's
Speaker 1: our Caucasian brothers and sisters in particular, those who are
Speaker 1: in positions of power who actively work against inclusivity and
Speaker 1: kind of allowing us to exist, you know, and be celebrated,
Speaker 1: it's very hurtful. And again, if this was the only
Speaker 1: thing we were talking about, that be one thing. But
Speaker 1: as you know, the list continues. So I guess you
Speaker 1: want to take the next one. You want me to
Speaker 1: get it.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's sure, you know, the idea that we're
Speaker 2: not allowed to exist in even fantasy spaces.
Speaker 1: It's almost like they don't want us, like in their
Speaker 1: perfect world or imaginary world.
Speaker 2: I mean, but that's it. It's not almost like that.
Speaker 2: It's like that this is our imaginary, perfect fantasy space.
Speaker 2: We'd rather you not exist here.
Speaker 1: And I want to be clear, this is not the
Speaker 1: authors or the producers of the shows this attitude. It's
Speaker 1: the public that has taken someone else's fantasy made it
Speaker 1: their own. And the public, not the whole public, but
Speaker 1: a certain facts subsect of the public that you know,
Speaker 1: just wars against the fact that black people now exist
Speaker 1: in their fantasy world or the fantasy world that they've
Speaker 1: been shown or read about, or whatever the case is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's unfortunate that just the idea that I have
Speaker 2: to get excited right watching the trailer for instance, for
Speaker 2: The Little Mermaid was Ico that she she'll get a
Speaker 2: Disney princess that looks like her, that I have to
Speaker 2: be conscious of it. And I wasn't aware of the casting,
Speaker 2: so when I saw it, I had a real life yeah,
Speaker 2: Like I hadn't read the articles or the press releases
Speaker 2: to know that, you know, she'd be in it. So
Speaker 2: I goes, only version of The Little Mermaid will be
Speaker 2: this one. This will be her first you know what
Speaker 2: I mean, interaction with Disney, you know, besides Encanto, which
Speaker 2: also gave her some pride because as you know, Icho's
Speaker 2: mother is from us, She's from Mexico. So the Spanish culture,
Speaker 2: the Latin culture very very important and I pactful for her.
Speaker 2: So I'm excited that ICO will have a much more
Speaker 2: inclusive representation from all things sure with regards to the
Speaker 2: arts and you know, fantasy than we did as children.
Speaker 1: So let's move this on a little bit to something
Speaker 1: that's a little bit more grown up. We're gonna talk
Speaker 1: about the Game of Thrones spin off. Do you watch
Speaker 1: Game of Thrones?
Speaker 2: Of course I watch Game of Throne, me too, all
Speaker 2: of them, all ofm Okay, all right, this comes from Variety.
Speaker 1: House of the Dragon star Steve Toussaint slams racist viewers.
Speaker 1: They're happy with a dragon flying, but not a rich
Speaker 1: black guy. Oh what I say in a mouthful Steve
Speaker 1: Tussant is for those that watch the show, he's a character,
Speaker 1: you know. I'm just gonna tell the story, all right.
Speaker 1: If you didn't watch Game of Thrones, the original series,
Speaker 1: there's a family that controls dragons. Right. This family, as
Speaker 1: as George R. R. Martin wrote in his books, is
Speaker 1: a family known by their silver hair and purple eyes. Right.
Speaker 1: The reason that this didn't show up on the screen
Speaker 1: is because the actress couldn't wear the contacts. The actress
Speaker 1: from the original series Calisi. I don't know her name,
Speaker 1: Amelia Clark. Is that her name?
Speaker 2: Sure?
Speaker 1: All right, let's go with it, all right, shout out
Speaker 1: to me Clark. She needed to know my name. That's
Speaker 1: the important mart anyway. So this was the Fantasy world,
Speaker 1: and in the original series, none of the family members
Speaker 1: were alive around, you know. It was her and her brother,
Speaker 1: and I think her brother died very early, so she
Speaker 1: was kind of the last of her clan. Right. So
Speaker 1: this new series takes place centuries before. It's a prequel
Speaker 1: to the Game of Thrones, right. In this new series,
Speaker 1: her family is all together and fleshed out and deep, right,
Speaker 1: And some of her family members or relatives or people
Speaker 1: from that group of people with her clan or whatever,
Speaker 1: her crowders. Sure, some of them are black skinned people, right,
Speaker 1: And guess what they have silver hair. I'm not sure
Speaker 1: what color their eyes are, you know, kind of dimly
Speaker 1: lit program and I'm not really all up in dudes'
Speaker 1: faces like that. But the silver hair is meant to
Speaker 1: signify that they're a part of this clan of people,
Speaker 1: Valerian people, right. So this is what people have pushed
Speaker 1: back on, like, why in the world is this black
Speaker 1: actor of Valerian in a show called House of the
Speaker 1: Dragon where there are real dragons that fly flying dragon right,
Speaker 1: So none of these people ever existed. This is not
Speaker 1: a historical account of the family. And you know, in
Speaker 1: so far as they can be their true to the
Speaker 1: character silver Hair never said that they did not have
Speaker 1: a melanated skin. And if you look at the guy
Speaker 1: that's in question, the the I'm not sure the character's name,
Speaker 1: but the actor's name is Steve Toussant. If you look
Speaker 1: at his character, he plays Lord Corliss, Lord Carliss. Okay,
Speaker 1: Hilarian nice. So he is a Larry there you go.
Speaker 1: This guy is he looks like a g It looks
Speaker 1: like God. You know, he's got like these dreads and
Speaker 1: they're like silver. It's like, you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: and you gotta understand. Okay, So you know, Q and I,
Speaker 1: as we mentioned, we watch Game of Thrones. We got
Speaker 1: into it. I don't know why you got into it.
Speaker 1: I'm just into everything that's like royal king, you know,
Speaker 1: queen that sort of stuff. You know, my name is Rams's,
Speaker 1: my last name is King, you know, and I just
Speaker 1: kind of grew up that way. You know what I
Speaker 1: mean anything having to do with a castle or a
Speaker 1: pyramid or something cool and regal. I'm just into it, right,
Speaker 1: And you gotta know how that hits somebody like me
Speaker 1: when I'm into a show and I see an important
Speaker 1: character and he's black in a space where that's not typical. Right,
Speaker 1: So when I saw him, I was surprised. I was like, whoa, right,
Speaker 1: but surprised in a good way. And I'm sure if
Speaker 1: you're listening to me in Q show and you've listened
Speaker 1: to us for some time, then I'm sure that you
Speaker 1: probably had a similar reaction. WHOA, How cool is that?
Speaker 1: That's a good thing, But you need to know, just
Speaker 1: like we do, that there is people, a very vocal
Speaker 1: group of people who push back against this, and it's
Speaker 1: very sad because it's like, Okay, you're cool with dragons,
Speaker 1: but not cool with melanin, Like how far does this?
Speaker 1: How far does this go? You know what I mean?
Speaker 2: I mean, what's more believable? They're cool with a woman
Speaker 2: with a fish tail and half of her body being
Speaker 2: covered in scale. I'm like, you talk as long as
Speaker 2: she's not black, keep on talking cute because you're saying that,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean and they treated as historical fact. Well,
Speaker 2: Aero was white. Arion is a cartoon mermaid. She didn't
Speaker 2: actually exist at any point on Earth.
Speaker 1: People.
Speaker 2: She could be purple or Awkua and people would be
Speaker 2: fine with that. It's the brown that they are not enjoying,
Speaker 2: very very straightforwardly, the brown that they are not enjoying.
Speaker 1: It's very hurtful, and I think that, you know, I
Speaker 1: don't want to say to be fair, but if I
Speaker 1: was to try to pinpoint a source of it, I
Speaker 1: you know, we've talked about on this show, and you
Speaker 1: know on the Black Information Network Daily podcast, how there's
Speaker 1: a lot of our Caucasian mostly brothers, but some of
Speaker 1: our Caucasian sisters too that really feel like the quote
Speaker 1: great replacement end quote unquote sorry is a real thing.
Speaker 1: They think that there's a concerted effort for people to
Speaker 1: replace them. You know, my real problem with the great
Speaker 1: replacement You only have one people. It's not singular, but this.
Speaker 2: Is the one though, good go ahead. They'd be fine
Speaker 2: with it as long as there's the ones doing the replacing.
Speaker 2: That's the part that makes my stomach turn.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: It's because, of course, you don't want your race to
Speaker 2: be wiped out, and if you're dumb enough for someone
Speaker 2: to convince you that's true, it could incite fear and
Speaker 2: panic and distress and anxiety. Sure, but those saying people
Speaker 2: would be fine if the people being replaced or wiped
Speaker 2: out or.
Speaker 1: Becoming the victims.
Speaker 2: Of genocide, if they didn't look like it didn't look
Speaker 2: like them. Even in this space where you're talking about
Speaker 2: reality versus historical context, when Cleopatra was cast as a
Speaker 2: beautiful white woman, they were not so up in arms
Speaker 2: about the historical precedent. Well clear, Patra was Egyptian and
Speaker 2: from Africa, she couldn't be Elizabeth Taylor. No such article
Speaker 2: was ever written by the segment of our entertainment world,
Speaker 2: or the journalist, or just the fans and people who
Speaker 2: are upset. They never were so up in arms about
Speaker 2: actual historical figures being replaced. You know, a movie called
Speaker 2: Gods of Egypt was made. It was called Gods of Egypt.
Speaker 2: Every star I.
Speaker 1: Remember in that movie was white. I remember that.
Speaker 2: Every lead speaking line character in that movie.
Speaker 1: Was I remember that one. You know, I remember that one.
Speaker 2: And that wasn't fifty years ago, this is like seven
Speaker 2: years ago, I'm knowing.
Speaker 1: But watch this. Okay, So we talked about Little Mermaid,
Speaker 1: we talked about House of the Draft. Watch this this
Speaker 1: comes from I didn't This comes from CNN. Elijah Wood
Speaker 1: and the original Lord of the Rings cast shut down
Speaker 1: racist critics of Rings of Power one time. For Elijah
Speaker 1: would wat's this. Amazon Prime had to shut down the
Speaker 1: comments or like some sort of message board or chat
Speaker 1: room or something like that having to do with the
Speaker 1: Rings of Power. I could read this, but you know,
Speaker 1: I'm when a paraphraser.
Speaker 3: Because people were upset that they were black hobbits. This,
Speaker 3: this is this, All this stuff happened like in the
Speaker 3: past month.
Speaker 2: I'm not laughing because it's funny, y'all.
Speaker 1: So you know the Star Wars franchise, You remember that,
Speaker 1: Remember when when the Stormtrooper took off his helmet and
Speaker 1: he was black and everybody's like, oh, and that was
Speaker 1: in the trailer. You know what I'm saying, there's a
Speaker 1: real thing. And on their side, they think, Okay, why
Speaker 1: do black people have to be everywhere? Now? Why is it?
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? This is what they think. Well,
Speaker 1: because we exist, you know that's the answer. But you
Speaker 1: know they haven't seen it, they haven't grown up with
Speaker 1: it and to them, coupled with that what they've been taught,
Speaker 1: which is they're being replaced. Jews have a concerted effort
Speaker 1: to organize the melanated individuals of the world to replace
Speaker 1: white people. This is a real thing that some of
Speaker 1: these white conservative people think when they see a black
Speaker 1: person in a space where they don't expect it in media,
Speaker 1: then they feel like it's the woke Hollywood liberal agenda
Speaker 1: to force blackness down their throats. And of course, from
Speaker 1: where we sit, it's just like, no, we want to
Speaker 1: exist in these fantasy places. We want to have black skin,
Speaker 1: We want to go to other planets. We want to
Speaker 1: fly on dragons, you know what I'm saying. We want
Speaker 1: to swim in under the sea with Sebastian and how
Speaker 1: dare you want flounder? You know? And this is kind
Speaker 1: of what we run up against. But it's important for
Speaker 1: us to share this with you, our listener, because our
Speaker 1: belief is that by you knowing this, you can have
Speaker 1: conversations in spaces where our voices don't get to and
Speaker 1: we physically don't get to, and so hopefully we create
Speaker 1: better allies.