WEBVTT - Thinking Sideways BONUS: Christine Pelisek interview 0:00:04.000 --> 0:00:15.080 Thinking sideways. OK, I'll broke the ideas. I don't know 0:00:16.200 --> 0:00:20.919 stories of things. We simply doom. None of the answa too. Hey, everybody. 0:00:21.480 --> 0:00:24.680 As you know from yesterday's episode about the Daytona Beach 0:00:24.720 --> 0:00:27.639 serial killer, we got a chance to speak with reporter 0:00:27.800 --> 0:00:31.920 Christine Palisac about Lonnie Franklin Jr. A k a. The 0:00:31.920 --> 0:00:35.960 Grim Sleeper, and Christine recently published her book The Grim 0:00:35.960 --> 0:00:39.360 Sleeper The Lost Women of South Central which sells the 0:00:39.400 --> 0:00:44.160 story of serial killer Lonnie David Franklin, Jr. Who killed 0:00:44.560 --> 0:00:49.839 believe it's believed between thirteen to plus women between the 0:00:49.920 --> 0:00:54.640 years of and two thousand seven. The book is available 0:00:54.760 --> 0:00:57.720 at most e book and brick and mortar book retailers, 0:00:57.960 --> 0:01:00.640 and if you want, you can go to Christine's website 0:01:01.080 --> 0:01:05.679 Christine palisc dot com at c h R I S 0:01:05.720 --> 0:01:08.840 T I N E P E L I s e 0:01:09.080 --> 0:01:12.200 K dot com. You're read an overview of the book, 0:01:12.560 --> 0:01:14.880 and she's also got a direct link on there to 0:01:15.160 --> 0:01:18.120 Amazon if you want to purchase it yourself. It's a 0:01:18.120 --> 0:01:20.920 great read. I enjoyed it and I'd recommend that you 0:01:21.120 --> 0:01:24.800 pick up a copy. But any who, As usual, we 0:01:24.880 --> 0:01:27.800 like to share these interviews with you typically, since so 0:01:27.920 --> 0:01:31.280 much of the conversation doesn't make it into the episode. 0:01:31.760 --> 0:01:35.080 One quick thing. Bear in mind that we talked over Skype, 0:01:35.360 --> 0:01:38.160 so you may hear some odd bits of audio from 0:01:38.160 --> 0:01:40.720 time to time. We've corrected as much as we could, 0:01:41.160 --> 0:01:44.120 but we hope you enjoy hearing the conversation with Christine 0:01:44.360 --> 0:01:47.160 as much as we enjoyed having it. Let's roll that 0:01:47.240 --> 0:01:56.840 interview if you don't mind, can you introduce yourself to 0:01:56.840 --> 0:02:00.560 all of our listeners. Sure, my name is Christine Palasac. 0:02:00.800 --> 0:02:04.640 I'm a senior writer with People Magazine, and I'm the 0:02:04.760 --> 0:02:08.680 author of The Grim Sleeper And just you know, in 0:02:08.680 --> 0:02:11.200 in as much detailer as little detail as you want, 0:02:11.560 --> 0:02:14.320 can you kind of give us an overview of the 0:02:14.360 --> 0:02:18.399 Grim Sleeper case. Sure. The Grim Sleeper case pretty much 0:02:18.440 --> 0:02:23.160 started in in the nineteen eighties and South Los Angeles. Um. 0:02:23.200 --> 0:02:26.480 He was a serial killer active. He started in ninety 0:02:26.560 --> 0:02:30.840 five and he killed seven women from and Uh. He 0:02:30.919 --> 0:02:34.919 had a survivor who survived in November, and then he 0:02:35.320 --> 0:02:38.720 possibly took a thirteen and a half year break and 0:02:38.760 --> 0:02:42.679 then resumed killing again in two thousand two, and then 0:02:42.720 --> 0:02:46.920 two thousand three and two thousand seven, and he was 0:02:47.000 --> 0:02:53.760 finally caught in two thousand and ten through familial DNA testing, 0:02:53.880 --> 0:02:59.320 and he was uh the longest operating serial killer west 0:02:59.320 --> 0:03:01.000 of the mississipp be He was one of the most 0:03:01.000 --> 0:03:05.359 prolific serial killers in Los Angeles history. His His main 0:03:05.520 --> 0:03:10.880 targets were poor, young black women. Most of them had 0:03:10.960 --> 0:03:16.640 drug addictions, UM, a few of them had prostitution arrests. Um. 0:03:16.680 --> 0:03:20.560 He shot them in the chest with the caliber. The 0:03:20.560 --> 0:03:25.120 bulk of his victims and his later victims, he strangled 0:03:25.120 --> 0:03:27.760 a few of them. And the women you know, basically 0:03:27.880 --> 0:03:32.320 ranged an age from fifteen to thirty five. One of 0:03:32.360 --> 0:03:34.480 the things I was I'm kind of curious about and 0:03:34.680 --> 0:03:37.520 I Steve gave me a copy of your book to read, 0:03:37.520 --> 0:03:38.880 and I haven't been able to start it yet, but 0:03:38.920 --> 0:03:40.640 I did read some of your articles in l A 0:03:40.680 --> 0:03:49.280 Weekly about him. Now I just lost my question. Well, yeah, 0:03:49.400 --> 0:03:52.520 but did he ever confess to any of these things? 0:03:52.520 --> 0:03:54.080 Did he ever own up to it? And did he 0:03:54.080 --> 0:03:57.400 ever confess to any others outside the eleven killings that 0:03:57.520 --> 0:04:00.440 he did? I think it doesn't sound like you. No, No, 0:04:00.680 --> 0:04:02.840 he never confessed, not even to the ones that he 0:04:02.920 --> 0:04:05.440 was convicted for. No, No, not at all, he didn't, 0:04:05.520 --> 0:04:08.600 and I know that some of you know, the police 0:04:08.640 --> 0:04:12.160 actually listened to his conversations he had with some family 0:04:12.200 --> 0:04:15.760 members and you know, he denied having, you know, anything 0:04:15.800 --> 0:04:18.440 to do with the crime. Times. You know, he denied 0:04:18.560 --> 0:04:21.240 that he made excuse. They found a lot of photos 0:04:21.240 --> 0:04:23.160 in his home. After he was arrested, they went and 0:04:23.200 --> 0:04:27.960 they did a three day search. Well actually they found 0:04:27.960 --> 0:04:31.120 more than that. They found. They found like dozens and 0:04:31.200 --> 0:04:34.280 dozens of videotape as well as photos, and they actually 0:04:34.360 --> 0:04:37.080 weaned them down because some of them were duplicates, so 0:04:37.120 --> 0:04:38.920 they weaned it down to a hundred and eighty. But 0:04:38.960 --> 0:04:41.880 they found like, you know, way more photos. And so 0:04:41.920 --> 0:04:44.640 when they did the search in his house, um, you know, 0:04:44.680 --> 0:04:47.279 family members and friends you know, asked him, like what 0:04:47.320 --> 0:04:50.680 about these photos, and he basically said that because he 0:04:50.720 --> 0:04:53.320 was a car mechanic, he led, he said, he told 0:04:53.360 --> 0:04:56.839 them that basically the photos were left you know, in cars, 0:04:56.839 --> 0:04:58.680 and he just happened to have them. And that's why, 0:04:58.800 --> 0:05:01.120 like he didn't admit that he was taking photos, even 0:05:01.160 --> 0:05:03.919 though he definitely had a bunch of cameras and things 0:05:04.000 --> 0:05:07.200 like that. So now he didn't admit anything, I mean, 0:05:07.240 --> 0:05:10.200 all he admitted to his friends was that he's a philanderer. 0:05:10.279 --> 0:05:12.039 I mean, he admitted that he had a lot of 0:05:12.040 --> 0:05:15.440 girl friends. He bragged about having numerous girl friends. I mean, 0:05:15.440 --> 0:05:17.560 he was married at the time when he was caught. 0:05:17.640 --> 0:05:20.040 He had been married for thirty two years. He was 0:05:20.080 --> 0:05:23.640 a grandfather, and but he told some of his friends that, 0:05:24.279 --> 0:05:26.160 you know, he had a number of girl friends over 0:05:26.240 --> 0:05:29.039 the years. And then he also picked up girls on 0:05:29.080 --> 0:05:31.280 the streets, and you know, he had nicknames for them 0:05:31.400 --> 0:05:33.680 and stuff like that. So he was he was quite 0:05:33.680 --> 0:05:36.599 a bragger when it came to, you know, his love life. 0:05:36.880 --> 0:05:39.360 Besides you know, the murders. Of course, he didn't talk 0:05:39.360 --> 0:05:42.120 about those. What what drew you to this case? I mean, 0:05:42.320 --> 0:05:44.280 and what and at what point did you kind of 0:05:44.760 --> 0:05:47.839 decide to really invest as much time and energy into 0:05:47.880 --> 0:05:50.320 it as you did. I mean, I personally would have 0:05:50.360 --> 0:05:54.000 a really hard time with the case like this. Well, 0:05:54.000 --> 0:05:56.720 I mean it just kind of fell in my lap really. 0:05:56.760 --> 0:05:59.000 I mean I found out about it through the corner's office. 0:05:59.040 --> 0:06:00.560 I used to go over to the corners office all 0:06:00.560 --> 0:06:03.240 the time, and I talked to the corner there and 0:06:03.320 --> 0:06:05.599 asked him, uh, you know, if there was any cases 0:06:05.640 --> 0:06:07.559 over the weekend, you know that I should write about. 0:06:07.600 --> 0:06:09.760 And one of the times I was over there, he 0:06:09.839 --> 0:06:14.120 basically said that the Corner's Office had started the Serial 0:06:14.200 --> 0:06:18.120 Killer Task Force to look into these body dumps, which 0:06:18.120 --> 0:06:21.680 were you know, basically women that were found dead around 0:06:21.839 --> 0:06:24.800 South Los Angeles and all actually all over l A County. 0:06:24.800 --> 0:06:27.000 And some of the women were found in parks, some 0:06:27.120 --> 0:06:29.120 of them in you know, field some of them in 0:06:29.160 --> 0:06:32.600 alley ways, some of them in garbage dumpsters. And they 0:06:32.640 --> 0:06:35.039 found thirty eight women in between two thousand two and 0:06:35.080 --> 0:06:38.320 two thousand six, and so the Coroner's office decided to 0:06:38.839 --> 0:06:41.599 look into it to see if there was any you know, 0:06:41.720 --> 0:06:43.760 links if there was a serial killer, and I mean 0:06:43.800 --> 0:06:45.440 they tried talking to the police, and a lot of 0:06:45.440 --> 0:06:47.040 the police were just say, mind your own business. You're 0:06:47.040 --> 0:06:49.919 the corner you know, you don't need to worry about 0:06:50.480 --> 0:06:52.679 you know, homicides things like that. And so he actually 0:06:52.720 --> 0:06:54.680 told me how they were looking into this, and so 0:06:55.240 --> 0:06:56.960 I asked him, you know, how it was going, and 0:06:56.960 --> 0:06:59.720 he said that, you know, they were overwhelmed by so 0:06:59.839 --> 0:07:01.640 many a case bees. I mean, at the Corners Office, 0:07:01.680 --> 0:07:05.039 they have like, you know, ten to thirty cases a day, 0:07:05.160 --> 0:07:07.040 you know, so they were all the investigators were really 0:07:07.040 --> 0:07:10.040 busy and they didn't have time to look into these cases. 0:07:10.160 --> 0:07:12.800 And so I kept bothering them about it, just asking. 0:07:12.840 --> 0:07:14.840 I'm like, what's the progress, you know, if you found anything, 0:07:15.400 --> 0:07:17.120 and he said, you know, they really hadn't been able 0:07:17.160 --> 0:07:19.240 to start looking at it. And so I was like, 0:07:19.400 --> 0:07:20.920 let me look at it, you know, let me, I'll 0:07:21.000 --> 0:07:23.000 look you know, look into it. And he was like no. 0:07:23.280 --> 0:07:25.600 And but finally, after a few months, he actually gave 0:07:25.600 --> 0:07:27.360 me the list of thirty eight women. And so at 0:07:27.360 --> 0:07:30.280 that point, you know, I didn't know anything, and you know, 0:07:30.320 --> 0:07:32.560 so I just started calling all the law enforcement agencies 0:07:32.560 --> 0:07:34.960 because the women were found all over l A County. 0:07:35.040 --> 0:07:37.400 So there was like Downey Police, you know, l A 0:07:37.680 --> 0:07:40.200 p D. L A County law enforcement agencies that had 0:07:40.240 --> 0:07:42.560 some of these cases. And so I started calling them 0:07:42.600 --> 0:07:44.400 all to see if there was any connection, if they 0:07:44.720 --> 0:07:47.400 thought there was any connection, if any of the cases 0:07:47.440 --> 0:07:49.800 had been solved. And I mean in some of the cases, 0:07:49.840 --> 0:07:52.440 I mean, they had a case where a woman was 0:07:52.520 --> 0:07:55.960 found burned to death in a car and it turned 0:07:55.960 --> 0:07:58.960 out that she was with a john and she had 0:07:58.960 --> 0:08:01.800 died of an overdose and he didn't want to take 0:08:01.800 --> 0:08:03.720 her to the hospital or anything. So he actually started 0:08:03.760 --> 0:08:06.200 the car on fire and tried to burn her because 0:08:06.200 --> 0:08:09.480 he was hoping that his DNA wouldn't be left on her, 0:08:10.680 --> 0:08:15.440 you know. So yeah, no, And so there was other case. 0:08:15.480 --> 0:08:18.240 Actually a couple of the cases were like natural causes 0:08:18.320 --> 0:08:20.120 and you know, things like that, and some of them 0:08:20.120 --> 0:08:22.200 were you know, the boyfriend killed the woman, you know 0:08:22.240 --> 0:08:24.440 sort of thing. But as I was going along, I 0:08:24.480 --> 0:08:27.520 got to the thirty seventh case, and it was Princess 0:08:27.520 --> 0:08:29.320 Birth of Mew and she was a fifteen year old 0:08:29.400 --> 0:08:32.480 runaway from Inglewood, which is kind of next to Los 0:08:32.480 --> 0:08:36.640 Angeles in l A County. And uh, I ended up 0:08:36.679 --> 0:08:39.440 finally talking to the Englewood detective that was working on 0:08:39.480 --> 0:08:42.520 the case, and he told me that her case, which 0:08:42.559 --> 0:08:45.640 was in two thousand and two, was linked to a 0:08:45.840 --> 0:08:48.480 case in two thousand and three and that was an 0:08:48.559 --> 0:08:50.719 l A. P D case, and those two cases were 0:08:50.760 --> 0:08:54.040 linked to a series of twenty five caliber murderers back 0:08:54.080 --> 0:08:57.199 in the eighties. And so he was the one who 0:08:57.240 --> 0:09:00.040 actually told me about this link, and then I found it. 0:09:00.160 --> 0:09:01.920 I ended up writing a story about it. But you know, 0:09:01.920 --> 0:09:05.000 like the police basically didn't tell anyone in the community, 0:09:05.040 --> 0:09:07.960 like no one knew, like none of the family members knew. 0:09:08.000 --> 0:09:09.880 I mean I was sort of the first one. Well, 0:09:09.960 --> 0:09:11.280 I was the first one to tell some of the 0:09:11.320 --> 0:09:13.840 family members that their daughters had been killed by a 0:09:13.880 --> 0:09:17.800 serial killer. And so I ended up just I kept 0:09:17.840 --> 0:09:23.040 looking into it, and then basically about a year later, um, 0:09:23.080 --> 0:09:25.960 I found out that the killer had struck again in 0:09:26.000 --> 0:09:29.360 two thousand and seven, and at that point the L A. P. 0:09:29.520 --> 0:09:32.800 D Um decided to like admit, you know, that there 0:09:32.880 --> 0:09:35.560 was a serial killer out there, and then they ended 0:09:35.640 --> 0:09:38.760 up they had a task force going and the city 0:09:38.800 --> 0:09:41.840 council put a five thousand dollar reward looking for information. 0:09:42.640 --> 0:09:45.080 And I don't know, I mean, I was just it 0:09:45.160 --> 0:09:47.480 was something that I fascinated with and I was hoping 0:09:47.520 --> 0:09:49.080 that they would, you know, catch the guy. And I 0:09:49.080 --> 0:09:50.920 mean one of the victims, her and I would drive 0:09:50.920 --> 0:09:54.000 around the neighborhoods together, you know, trying to find the 0:09:54.000 --> 0:09:58.280 house because there was one survivor. And he picked her 0:09:58.360 --> 0:10:00.480 up at a liquor store and then told older she 0:10:00.520 --> 0:10:01.960 was going to a party. He said he was going 0:10:01.960 --> 0:10:05.040 a driver to the party, but instead he stopped at 0:10:05.440 --> 0:10:07.360 He said it was his uncle's house. But the police 0:10:07.360 --> 0:10:09.840 believe he went into the house, got a gun, went 0:10:09.840 --> 0:10:12.240 out and shot her about two minutes later, and she 0:10:12.320 --> 0:10:16.959 actually was able to back. She took the detectives back 0:10:17.000 --> 0:10:19.600 to this house, which was owned by a guy named 0:10:19.640 --> 0:10:22.080 Othis White, and it turned out that it was three 0:10:22.120 --> 0:10:26.240 doors down from where Lonnie Franklin, the killer lived, And 0:10:26.320 --> 0:10:28.520 so her and I on a number of occasions, like 0:10:28.600 --> 0:10:31.840 drove around the streets looking for the houses, you know, 0:10:31.880 --> 0:10:34.120 the house, and so, you know, on a number of 0:10:34.120 --> 0:10:36.160 occasions we did that and she was like, there's definitely 0:10:36.200 --> 0:10:38.200 it was a side door and it was white. And 0:10:38.240 --> 0:10:41.520 you know, there's like a zillion houses set you know, 0:10:41.640 --> 0:10:44.280 have an entrance to the side and that are white. So, 0:10:44.480 --> 0:10:46.559 you know, we went around and we did some interviewing 0:10:46.840 --> 0:10:50.120 together as well as I tried to find out my 0:10:50.280 --> 0:10:52.680 own stuff. And I got a lot of people contacting me, 0:10:52.760 --> 0:10:56.480 like psychics, and I had a few people that believed 0:10:56.520 --> 0:11:00.600 that their friend or their husband were the killer, and 0:11:00.640 --> 0:11:02.960 I ended up getting like DNA from them to take 0:11:02.960 --> 0:11:04.520 it to the you know, to take to the police. 0:11:04.920 --> 0:11:07.880 So it was kind of crazy at times. Yeah. Now, 0:11:08.000 --> 0:11:09.880 now the victim that you were just talking about, that's 0:11:09.920 --> 0:11:13.840 miss Washington, correct Washington. Yeah, yeah, okay, she's she was 0:11:13.920 --> 0:11:17.040 the the sole survivor. And that was what year was 0:11:17.080 --> 0:11:19.559 that that attempt made? That was the eighties, right, it 0:11:19.679 --> 0:11:24.080 was it was novemb okay, you know, So that that 0:11:24.160 --> 0:11:27.720 does lead us into another question. You know, she's the 0:11:27.760 --> 0:11:32.600 only surviving witness. But what I've always wondered about when 0:11:32.640 --> 0:11:36.280 I was reading about Lonnie, and of course then you 0:11:36.320 --> 0:11:39.480 know the other serial killer cases is and this is 0:11:39.520 --> 0:11:41.640 just your opinion, it's really what I'm after here, but 0:11:41.800 --> 0:11:44.480 how is it that nobody saw him? Like, there was 0:11:44.600 --> 0:11:48.920 no witnesses to what he was doing? Well? Um, and 0:11:49.160 --> 0:11:51.600 it ended up that, I mean, he had his trial 0:11:51.679 --> 0:11:54.480 last year, already got convicted, and during the death penalty, 0:11:54.520 --> 0:11:57.520 another woman came forward and said that she was also 0:11:57.559 --> 0:12:01.600 a victim of his. So there's actually possibly two survivors. 0:12:02.000 --> 0:12:06.120 And she actually said that she was um at a 0:12:06.200 --> 0:12:08.640 bus stop and it was about ten o'clock because a 0:12:08.679 --> 0:12:10.520 lot of the victims, like a ny Tria, it was 0:12:10.600 --> 0:12:14.280 late at night. With this woman, Laura More, it was 0:12:14.360 --> 0:12:16.320 late at night. She was at a bus stop. He 0:12:16.480 --> 0:12:18.760 drives up, you know, he drove up to both of 0:12:18.760 --> 0:12:20.160 them and just said, hey, you know, could I give 0:12:20.200 --> 0:12:22.480 you a ride and be Tria actually talked to him 0:12:22.520 --> 0:12:24.520 for a few minutes before she got into the car, 0:12:25.080 --> 0:12:27.320 and Laura Moore actually turned him down, and he just 0:12:27.400 --> 0:12:30.640 kept going around and going around until finally she got 0:12:30.679 --> 0:12:32.920 in the car with them, and then he takes them 0:12:32.960 --> 0:12:34.400 right to an alley. And I mean a lot of 0:12:34.440 --> 0:12:36.920 the victims, you know, were picked up late at night, 0:12:37.000 --> 0:12:40.640 and I think that's why there wasn't any witnesses. I mean, 0:12:40.679 --> 0:12:44.840 there was one witness, alleged witness actually for the Bernida Sparks. 0:12:44.920 --> 0:12:47.400 She was one of the victims. And one woman said 0:12:47.840 --> 0:12:51.360 she thought that she saw BERNIEA. Sparks that night getting 0:12:51.400 --> 0:12:53.719 into the car with somebody, but you know, a lot 0:12:53.760 --> 0:12:55.719 of them was I think the only reason. I think 0:12:55.720 --> 0:12:57.320 a lot of it was that it was late at 0:12:57.400 --> 0:12:59.600 night and there wasn't a lot of people out on 0:12:59.640 --> 0:13:02.360 the street. Eat. I think that's why. And I mean 0:13:02.400 --> 0:13:04.720 he and also too, I mean, he knew what he 0:13:04.760 --> 0:13:07.319 was doing, so you know, he's going to be stealthy, right, 0:13:07.320 --> 0:13:09.320 He's not going to do it when there's a hundred 0:13:09.360 --> 0:13:11.360 people around. You know, He's going to make sure it's 0:13:11.440 --> 0:13:12.880 late at night. And I mean when the police were 0:13:12.920 --> 0:13:15.640 following him around, you know, after they got the familiar 0:13:15.720 --> 0:13:19.120 DNA from the sun the match with the Sun. They 0:13:19.160 --> 0:13:21.720 followed him around and he left his home one night 0:13:22.440 --> 0:13:24.559 at like three o'clock in the morning, and he went 0:13:24.600 --> 0:13:26.760 to forty second and Western, which was like kind of 0:13:26.760 --> 0:13:31.320 a popular prostitution hanging out and there was two girls 0:13:31.320 --> 0:13:33.120 standing on the street and it was really secluded in 0:13:33.200 --> 0:13:36.640 the detectives there was this undercover cop following him, and 0:13:36.880 --> 0:13:39.320 he made a point to say to the detectives, He's like, 0:13:39.480 --> 0:13:41.480 I'm afraid that he's going to find out that I'm 0:13:41.520 --> 0:13:43.400 following him because there was like literally no one on 0:13:43.440 --> 0:13:45.880 the street. So he picks times when there's not a 0:13:45.880 --> 0:13:48.600 lot of people around, you know, that's why I think 0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:51.960 there's no witnesses. And then he brings them to alley 0:13:51.960 --> 0:13:54.199 ways and not a lot of people hanging out in 0:13:54.200 --> 0:13:56.000 the alleyways at four o'clock in the morning. Do you 0:13:56.000 --> 0:13:58.120 think their line of work had something to do with 0:13:58.160 --> 0:14:00.760 the lack of witnesses as well? That may be. You know, 0:14:00.840 --> 0:14:04.440 people that were around were other other you know, women 0:14:04.520 --> 0:14:07.880 who were prostitutes or whatever, and weren't paying so much 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:09.760 attention to the fact that you might just get in 0:14:09.760 --> 0:14:13.160 a car with a John Well, I think it was. 0:14:13.760 --> 0:14:16.920 I mean, some of the girls definitely had prostitution records, 0:14:16.920 --> 0:14:19.240 but I mean some of them, like I mean Deborah Jackson, 0:14:19.640 --> 0:14:22.160 she was gay and she was just taking a bus, 0:14:22.600 --> 0:14:24.920 you know, to her home, like where she was living. 0:14:25.000 --> 0:14:28.920 So how he came across her, It's it's hard to say. 0:14:28.920 --> 0:14:31.360 I mean, Laura Moore was picked up at a bus stop, 0:14:31.480 --> 0:14:33.960 you know, in Natria, was at a liquor store, you know. 0:14:34.040 --> 0:14:36.520 So it's hard to say whether any of the girls 0:14:36.600 --> 0:14:38.880 were like on a stroll because a lot of the girls, 0:14:38.880 --> 0:14:41.040 like you have to remember back then it was like 0:14:41.080 --> 0:14:43.920 the crack cocaine era, and so there weren't a lot 0:14:43.960 --> 0:14:48.120 of the girls weren't like technically prostitutes. Like they walk up, 0:14:48.320 --> 0:14:50.240 you know, down the streets. Some guy would pull up 0:14:50.240 --> 0:14:52.480 and he'd be like, hey, do you want to smoke 0:14:52.600 --> 0:14:54.800 some crack? And you know, the girls were so dope, 0:14:54.960 --> 0:14:57.200 doped up, They're like sure, and they just jumped in 0:14:57.240 --> 0:14:59.080 the car and they need to drive off. It wasn't 0:14:59.080 --> 0:15:01.240 like standing on a owner with ten girls, you know 0:15:01.280 --> 0:15:05.720 what I mean, Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. So so 0:15:05.920 --> 0:15:10.400 so it appears and he did actually probably put some 0:15:10.480 --> 0:15:12.760 of them in by offering them drugs instead of cash. 0:15:13.000 --> 0:15:15.720 Oh for sure. I mean yeah, I think he definitely 0:15:15.800 --> 0:15:17.840 did that. And I mean he, you know, according to 0:15:17.880 --> 0:15:19.600 what the police told me, I mean, he didn't smoke, 0:15:19.680 --> 0:15:22.360 and he really didn't drink very much himself, but he 0:15:22.480 --> 0:15:26.080 knew that, you know, he could lure girls in with drugs. 0:15:26.120 --> 0:15:27.880 So I think that that's exactly what he was doing. 0:15:27.920 --> 0:15:30.720 I mean I know that he was also you know, 0:15:30.760 --> 0:15:33.880 paying some girls, because there was a videotape that the 0:15:34.000 --> 0:15:37.840 prosecutor show during his trial, and he video taped this 0:15:37.880 --> 0:15:39.800 girl and she didn't It looked like she had no 0:15:39.840 --> 0:15:42.400 idea he was videotaping her. And she kind of comes 0:15:42.400 --> 0:15:45.200 out of this bathroom and she's got a T shirt on, 0:15:45.240 --> 0:15:48.400 the jeans, and then she takes her jeans off, and 0:15:48.560 --> 0:15:50.480 you know, he's taking he tells her to take her 0:15:50.480 --> 0:15:52.240 top off, so she takes her top off and he's 0:15:52.280 --> 0:15:54.960 taking you know, he's taking photos of her, and then 0:15:54.960 --> 0:15:57.120 they do like a sex act and then he sort 0:15:57.160 --> 0:16:01.400 of just put some money on this table, just really 0:16:01.440 --> 0:16:03.600 like non slantly, just put some money on the table, 0:16:03.680 --> 0:16:05.800 and then she just sort of while she's talking to him, 0:16:05.800 --> 0:16:07.480 sort of reaches her hand up, grabs the money, puts 0:16:07.480 --> 0:16:09.560 in her pocket. They talked for a few minutes and 0:16:09.560 --> 0:16:12.160 then he turns off the video when she goes into 0:16:12.200 --> 0:16:15.280 the bathroom and then that's that. So yeah, he was 0:16:15.320 --> 0:16:18.400 definitely paying some of the women. So he didn't videotape 0:16:18.440 --> 0:16:22.040 himself committing any of the murders? Did he? Now they 0:16:22.120 --> 0:16:26.560 can find They didn't find, but they found so most 0:16:26.600 --> 0:16:29.400 of the videos. Actually he wasn't in the videos. It 0:16:29.480 --> 0:16:31.920 was mostly women in the videos like doing you know, 0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:36.000 dancing for him or touching themselves or whatever the scenario was, 0:16:36.040 --> 0:16:38.440 and you could see his hand. But they only had 0:16:38.480 --> 0:16:41.480 like one or two videos where he actually was in it. 0:16:41.600 --> 0:16:45.080 So he was pretty he was smart. Where thee Where 0:16:45.080 --> 0:16:46.720 were the most of the women in the videos? Were 0:16:46.760 --> 0:16:49.520 they his victims? Or were they women who turned out 0:16:49.800 --> 0:16:53.040 to be found alive and well, well some of them 0:16:53.080 --> 0:16:55.480 like they did. They never identified the bulk of them, 0:16:56.200 --> 0:16:59.840 but they did find photos of They found a photo 0:16:59.840 --> 0:17:02.640 of Nittzure Washington, who was a survivor. They found a 0:17:02.680 --> 0:17:07.400 photo of Geneva Peters, who was his victim in January first, 0:17:07.440 --> 0:17:11.200 two thousand seven, the last known victim. And they also 0:17:11.280 --> 0:17:13.960 found the I d like a driver's license in a 0:17:14.000 --> 0:17:18.240 student identification of two women that went missing in two 0:17:18.240 --> 0:17:21.879 thousand five, I La Marshall and Rolina Morris. Both women 0:17:22.280 --> 0:17:25.160 went missing right near them. They were known to hang 0:17:25.600 --> 0:17:28.840 hang out around Franklin's house on around eighty one and Western, 0:17:29.240 --> 0:17:34.840 and they found their identification tucked in an envelope along 0:17:34.880 --> 0:17:39.440 with Genesia Peters photo in this mini fridge in his garage, 0:17:39.960 --> 0:17:43.040 But none of the video was of any of the 0:17:43.080 --> 0:17:47.960 women that were confirmed his victims. Is that correct? That's right? Yeah, 0:17:47.960 --> 0:17:50.600 that's right. Yeah, so um so. I one of the 0:17:50.640 --> 0:17:52.879 questions I wanted to ask you, and this relates to 0:17:53.520 --> 0:17:59.160 both Lonnie and the Daytona Beach serial killer. Is there 0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:02.600 hunting grounds is the term I'm going to use? And 0:18:03.000 --> 0:18:06.560 how far they roam from essentially their home base? Because 0:18:06.800 --> 0:18:09.679 not very far? Well Lonnie, Yeah, he didn't seem to 0:18:09.800 --> 0:18:14.000 go very far afield, which feels weird to me. I mean, 0:18:14.000 --> 0:18:17.359 he like like a mile or three? Is that about 0:18:17.400 --> 0:18:20.800 how far he roamed? I think the far farthest victim 0:18:20.920 --> 0:18:24.840 was about five miles away. But yeah, no, he he operated. 0:18:25.080 --> 0:18:28.280 He hunted in his own backyard, and that's like most 0:18:28.320 --> 0:18:31.119 serial killers do that. I mean they had back in 0:18:31.160 --> 0:18:34.560 the eighties and South Los Angeles there was um, you know, 0:18:34.640 --> 0:18:37.560 six serial killers operating at the same time, and they 0:18:37.560 --> 0:18:42.080 were able to identify all of them actually, and all 0:18:42.119 --> 0:18:44.399 of them lived in South Los Angeles. I mean, Chester 0:18:44.440 --> 0:18:47.080 Turner was one of the serial killers, and he hunted 0:18:47.160 --> 0:18:51.000 like literally within two blocks of where his mud where 0:18:51.000 --> 0:18:54.760 he lived with his mother. You know, they like familiar territory, 0:18:55.119 --> 0:18:56.560 you know, they don't want to be surprised. They want 0:18:56.600 --> 0:18:59.640 to know. Lonnie was a garbage man and he knew 0:18:59.840 --> 0:19:03.080 the alleyways like he knew the dumpsters of South Los 0:19:03.080 --> 0:19:05.880 Angeles because that's where he worked, right, So they want 0:19:05.880 --> 0:19:08.640 to have they want to feel comfortable. So that's why 0:19:08.920 --> 0:19:12.480 most serial killers actually operate, you know, in the same 0:19:12.520 --> 0:19:15.320 area where they dumped their bodies. I was always kind 0:19:15.359 --> 0:19:17.159 of wondering too if if one of the reasons they 0:19:17.200 --> 0:19:19.199 do it is they're just trying to clean up the neighborhood. 0:19:19.800 --> 0:19:21.680 What I'm saying, I mean, I don't mean that, I 0:19:21.720 --> 0:19:23.640 don't mean that in a harsh judgmental way, but I mean, 0:19:23.840 --> 0:19:26.080 you know, seriously, is that possibly a motivator for some 0:19:26.119 --> 0:19:28.680 of these guys that they're they don't really approve of 0:19:28.760 --> 0:19:31.480 that activity, and they'd like to see it sort of discouraged. Well, 0:19:31.520 --> 0:19:33.919 I mean obviously that was the case for Lonnie. I 0:19:33.920 --> 0:19:36.919 mean he considered I mean, it's obvious he considered the 0:19:36.960 --> 0:19:40.040 women brash, right, and so he dumped their bodies and 0:19:40.080 --> 0:19:42.520 trapped you know, so he considered them trash, you know. 0:19:42.520 --> 0:19:45.159 And his wife was there, yeah, and dumpsters, and his 0:19:45.200 --> 0:19:47.639 wife was very religious, so he maybe there was something 0:19:48.359 --> 0:19:50.520 for him. He you know, I think he had this 0:19:50.600 --> 0:19:53.520 like compulsion, you know. I think that he couldn't control himself. 0:19:53.600 --> 0:19:56.919 I mean, he had there was he was always after women. 0:19:56.960 --> 0:20:01.960 You know, he was like addicted to women. And I 0:20:02.000 --> 0:20:04.320 think that in his case, I think that, you know, 0:20:04.359 --> 0:20:06.520 you also had this deep seated hatred and you know 0:20:06.520 --> 0:20:09.399 where it came from. It's hard to say, because it 0:20:09.480 --> 0:20:12.640 seemed like he had a good relationship with his mother 0:20:12.720 --> 0:20:15.600 and his sister, you know, so it's hard to say 0:20:15.640 --> 0:20:19.800 exactly why how he ended up, you know, hating women 0:20:19.920 --> 0:20:22.720 so much, But you know, I think that's what he thought. 0:20:22.720 --> 0:20:24.880 I think he thought he was cleaning the streets. Yeah 0:20:25.160 --> 0:20:28.600 that's crazy. Okay, So let's back up a little bit, 0:20:29.200 --> 0:20:31.919 because I realized we haven't asked this question yet. Um, 0:20:31.960 --> 0:20:35.399 where did the name the grim Sleeper come from? Um? 0:20:35.480 --> 0:20:42.720 My editor and I made it up. Oh good one score. Now, 0:20:42.720 --> 0:20:46.560 well she was when we I mean when she um 0:20:46.640 --> 0:20:48.680 when I told her about the story. We're writing the story, 0:20:48.720 --> 0:20:51.199 and she actually she was like, you know, we have 0:20:51.320 --> 0:20:53.159 to name him. And I didn't want to name him. 0:20:53.200 --> 0:20:54.880 Actually I was like, no, I don't think that's right 0:20:54.920 --> 0:20:58.280 to do that, and she said, yes, I think you know, 0:20:58.440 --> 0:21:00.600 you should and everything like that. We just sided that 0:21:01.240 --> 0:21:03.600 it was a good idea just because you know, a 0:21:03.640 --> 0:21:05.560 lot of the serial killers out there, like Son of 0:21:05.640 --> 0:21:09.360 Sam and all these guys Zodiac. I mean I think 0:21:09.359 --> 0:21:12.159 that they're known because they were nicknamed, right, so everyone 0:21:12.200 --> 0:21:13.800 knows about them. And I wanted in this case. I 0:21:13.840 --> 0:21:16.199 didn't want this case to go away, you know, like 0:21:16.200 --> 0:21:18.840 all of sudden you get media attention and then the 0:21:18.920 --> 0:21:22.679 next day no one, nobody cares. And so our hope 0:21:22.800 --> 0:21:25.360 was that by nicknaming him, people would remember the name 0:21:25.840 --> 0:21:28.800 and they couldn't forget about the case. And so her 0:21:28.880 --> 0:21:31.280 and I started, you know, trying to go through different names, 0:21:31.280 --> 0:21:33.240 and she was like, Ripper van Winkle was one of 0:21:33.280 --> 0:21:35.280 the ones she was unaware night no, no, no, no, 0:21:36.000 --> 0:21:37.720 as I was. And then I was like, what about 0:21:37.760 --> 0:21:39.840 grim Sleeper because of the break in the case. She 0:21:39.880 --> 0:21:41.600 was like yes, I'm like no, no, no, no, I 0:21:41.680 --> 0:21:44.000 was kidding. I hate that name. And she's like, no, no, 0:21:44.040 --> 0:21:49.440 we're calling him that's too bad. Bad? Exactly was it? 0:21:50.040 --> 0:21:52.119 I can't tell what you're done talking when you just 0:21:52.200 --> 0:21:55.240 dropped out because of the because the skype, hopefully you're 0:21:55.240 --> 0:21:57.439 hopefully you're done. I was gonna say, you should have 0:21:57.480 --> 0:22:00.119 named in the Tooth Fairy after the serial killer in 0:22:00.240 --> 0:22:02.399 Red Dragon. I don't know if you ever read that 0:22:02.400 --> 0:22:05.720 book or not, No, but I heard about him. Actually yeah, yeah, 0:22:05.720 --> 0:22:07.600 but the tooth Fairy. What was great about that? As 0:22:07.640 --> 0:22:09.160 they called him the tooth Fairy and it really made 0:22:09.160 --> 0:22:13.280 the killer angry and then he sort of uh contacted 0:22:13.320 --> 0:22:16.640 the reporter, uh well in a kind of brewal way. 0:22:16.800 --> 0:22:20.719 So it's probably good that you didn't. Probably really what 0:22:20.760 --> 0:22:25.840 we're getting at um? So with Lonnie no um. Lonnie 0:22:25.880 --> 0:22:31.320 took what was it a fourteen year break? Is that correct? Well, 0:22:31.359 --> 0:22:33.840 I mean at first they thought it was a thirteen 0:22:33.880 --> 0:22:36.119 and a half year break, but then they lived. They 0:22:36.119 --> 0:22:38.800 found a victim in two thousands, so it was it 0:22:38.880 --> 0:22:41.960 was it was ten years now as opposed to like 0:22:42.000 --> 0:22:45.480 thirteen and a half, it might keep narrowing to I was. 0:22:45.520 --> 0:22:47.920 So that was my question is you know, we hear 0:22:47.960 --> 0:22:53.199 about stories like Lonnie where somebody is supposedly taken a break. 0:22:53.760 --> 0:22:56.240 Do you think that he actually took a break or 0:22:56.280 --> 0:22:59.000 do you think that it just happened to be that 0:22:59.200 --> 0:23:02.520 we haven't been able to draw the links from found 0:23:02.600 --> 0:23:05.560 victims to him. Are victims that weren't found that would 0:23:05.560 --> 0:23:10.960 be my guess. Well, the detectives definitely don't think that 0:23:11.040 --> 0:23:14.280 he took a break. Um. They think that because two 0:23:14.320 --> 0:23:17.200 of the victims, Bernita Sparks and Genesia Peters, were found 0:23:17.200 --> 0:23:21.280 in dumpsters by you know, homeless people looking for like 0:23:21.320 --> 0:23:24.280 recyclables and stuff like that, and so um, there was 0:23:24.280 --> 0:23:25.800 a good chance that they would have ended up in 0:23:25.840 --> 0:23:29.520 a landfill. So the detectives think that a lot of 0:23:29.560 --> 0:23:32.840 his victims ended up in landfills because they think like, 0:23:32.920 --> 0:23:35.160 he's known to have killed fifteen women, but they think 0:23:35.200 --> 0:23:37.760 it's probably closer to thirty. And that's some of the 0:23:37.800 --> 0:23:41.560 women you know are in landfill, you know landfills right now. 0:23:42.200 --> 0:23:44.399 So I don't know, like I think that. I mean, 0:23:44.440 --> 0:23:46.040 I know that there was a case in two thousand, 0:23:46.080 --> 0:23:49.280 so I mean his last known victim was in and 0:23:49.320 --> 0:23:52.560 then there was a case in two thousand. During the nineties, 0:23:52.640 --> 0:23:54.280 it was also a time when his kids would have 0:23:54.320 --> 0:23:57.480 been teenagers, you know, so you know who knows. I mean, 0:23:57.720 --> 0:23:59.119 you know, maybe they were like, Dad, what are you 0:23:59.200 --> 0:24:01.320 doing leaving? The was at three o'clock in the morning, 0:24:01.320 --> 0:24:02.919 Like where are you going? Like I don't, you know, 0:24:02.960 --> 0:24:04.320 I don't know if there was something going on in 0:24:04.359 --> 0:24:06.600 his family life that you know, stopped him from doing it, 0:24:06.600 --> 0:24:09.680 because you know, like with for example, like Gary Ridgeway, 0:24:09.760 --> 0:24:12.479 the Green River killer, I mean, he would stop at 0:24:12.520 --> 0:24:15.320 times too, you know, when he was happy in his relationships, 0:24:15.400 --> 0:24:17.719 So I think sometimes he's like serial kill as they 0:24:17.760 --> 0:24:21.400 might stop if they're happy in their relationships. Like maybe 0:24:21.680 --> 0:24:23.879 you know, Lonnie was happy and you know with a 0:24:23.960 --> 0:24:26.159 girl he was dating. You know, who knows, But the 0:24:26.200 --> 0:24:29.399 cops don't don't actually think that he did. But you know, 0:24:29.440 --> 0:24:31.640 it's hard to tell, so I don't I'm not really sure, 0:24:32.160 --> 0:24:34.200 but he did, you know, he was definitely, I mean, 0:24:34.440 --> 0:24:37.879 there was a flurry right from then, all of a 0:24:37.920 --> 0:24:40.199 sudden there's not a lot going. But then again, in 0:24:40.280 --> 0:24:43.480 nine eight eight, they had a suspect, a sheriff deputy 0:24:43.840 --> 0:24:47.040 deputy named Ricky Ross, So maybe he decided to lay 0:24:47.040 --> 0:24:50.000 low because they were focused on this, you know, deputy. 0:24:50.160 --> 0:24:52.560 He's probably it's hard to say, probably hoping the deputy 0:24:52.600 --> 0:24:54.440 would like take the fall for you know, and that 0:24:54.600 --> 0:24:57.879 never wind up happening. Well, the deputy actually got arrested 0:24:58.440 --> 0:25:02.359 and charged with them like these three unrelated murders, but 0:25:02.400 --> 0:25:06.160 the detectives actually thought that he was responsible for the 0:25:06.840 --> 0:25:09.639 caliber murders because he admitted that he owned a twenty 0:25:09.640 --> 0:25:13.000 five caliber gun. But it ended up that the ballistics 0:25:13.000 --> 0:25:15.600 didn't match with this gun that they found in his 0:25:15.720 --> 0:25:18.120 car and the bullets that were pulled out of these 0:25:18.160 --> 0:25:20.680 three prostitutes that were killed around the same time and 0:25:20.720 --> 0:25:24.000 Netria was attacked, so they ended up dropping the case. 0:25:24.040 --> 0:25:27.320 But the detectives actually believed up until I talked to 0:25:27.359 --> 0:25:29.320 one of the detectives back in two thousand six, and 0:25:29.359 --> 0:25:31.960 he still believed it was Ricky Ross who was the deputy, 0:25:32.200 --> 0:25:34.879 you know, So I think that you know, Lonnie, for 0:25:34.880 --> 0:25:37.639 a while, they're probably thought that, you know, they were 0:25:37.680 --> 0:25:39.640 focused on somebody else, so he was gonna lay low 0:25:40.080 --> 0:25:43.800 and now Lonnie. Lonnie would eventually get caught because of 0:25:44.000 --> 0:25:47.520 familiar DNA. But did they ever find his gun, that 0:25:47.520 --> 0:25:50.000 that twenty five caliber that he was using on all 0:25:50.000 --> 0:25:52.720 these girls. I don't remember seeing anything that I've ever 0:25:52.760 --> 0:25:55.480 actually got found. Well, they didn't find the gun that 0:25:55.600 --> 0:26:01.280 he used um for the victims from up to eight. 0:26:01.400 --> 0:26:03.800 But when they searched his home, they found the gun 0:26:03.920 --> 0:26:06.760 that was used to kill Genesia Peters, the two thousand 0:26:06.800 --> 0:26:11.080 seven victim, and that gun was also used they found 0:26:11.160 --> 0:26:13.199 After like they arrested him and charged him with the 0:26:13.200 --> 0:26:15.320 ten murders, they ended up finding out that he was 0:26:15.320 --> 0:26:19.600 also responsible for this murder. Found out they found the 0:26:19.640 --> 0:26:23.000 gun and basically traced to Sharon Dismuke the bullet that 0:26:23.040 --> 0:26:25.560 was pulled out of her. So the gun that they 0:26:25.560 --> 0:26:28.320 found in one of the Genesia Peters. So they did 0:26:28.359 --> 0:26:30.840 find one of the guns, and they found a receipt 0:26:31.400 --> 0:26:34.760 for the gun they think was used to kill the 0:26:34.840 --> 0:26:37.240 other victims in the eighties, but they never found that gun. 0:26:37.680 --> 0:26:42.359 Okay Okay. Now, Also when I was doing the reading, 0:26:42.600 --> 0:26:46.920 I know that there's there's a lot of controversy around 0:26:47.240 --> 0:26:51.800 the use of familiar DNA and what what is what 0:26:51.960 --> 0:26:55.240 is the uproar about that? I personally don't get it. Well. 0:26:55.280 --> 0:26:56.720 I think that you know, a lot like a c 0:26:56.960 --> 0:27:00.520 l U and you know, civil liberty be organized nations 0:27:00.640 --> 0:27:05.040 and civil rights organizations. You know, they believe it's an 0:27:05.040 --> 0:27:09.440 invasion of privacy and they think that it unfairly targets minorities, 0:27:09.800 --> 0:27:14.120 you know, because there's more minorities like African American, Hispanics, 0:27:14.119 --> 0:27:16.400 et cetera, in prison, So they're saying that in fairly 0:27:16.680 --> 0:27:21.240 targets that population. Like England did a study many years 0:27:21.280 --> 0:27:23.399 ago and they found that like if you're for the 0:27:23.400 --> 0:27:26.400 familiar DNA because as you know, like Lonnie, they had 0:27:26.440 --> 0:27:29.880 his DNA, but Lonnie had never gone to prison, so 0:27:29.960 --> 0:27:32.639 he had never been swabbed. So that's why they didn't 0:27:32.640 --> 0:27:35.120 know who he was. But they knew he was matched 0:27:35.119 --> 0:27:38.680 to the victims in the eighties and the victims in 0:27:38.720 --> 0:27:41.720 the tooth and the two thousand's because of they found 0:27:41.720 --> 0:27:44.560 saliva on many of the women's breasts and so they 0:27:44.640 --> 0:27:47.199 knew he was, you know, there was one killer, but 0:27:47.400 --> 0:27:50.359 because he wasn't in any felon data bank, they couldn't 0:27:50.400 --> 0:27:53.320 find him. So that's why they decided to use that 0:27:53.680 --> 0:27:57.080 familiar DNA. And it was the first time actually in California, 0:27:57.200 --> 0:28:00.200 actually in the US, that they used familiar d in 0:28:00.240 --> 0:28:03.199 testing to find a serial killer. And they checked it 0:28:03.240 --> 0:28:04.720 in two thousand and eight. And how it goes with 0:28:04.800 --> 0:28:08.440 the familiar DNA, I mean, they had been UM England 0:28:08.480 --> 0:28:11.600 had been using it for many years. And basically they 0:28:11.640 --> 0:28:14.919 said that if you're a felon, there's at chance that 0:28:14.920 --> 0:28:17.200 you're going to have like a male relative, like a 0:28:17.200 --> 0:28:21.159 cousin and uncle, a brother, a father who's a felon. 0:28:21.280 --> 0:28:23.720 So if you're not in the data bank, there's a 0:28:24.440 --> 0:28:26.320 chance that you're gonna have a relative who's in the 0:28:26.440 --> 0:28:29.879 data bank and so and so that's why they did 0:28:29.920 --> 0:28:32.639 it in two thousand eight and it came back nothing. 0:28:32.960 --> 0:28:35.960 And then they did it two years later and the 0:28:36.000 --> 0:28:39.560 felone data bank had grown four hundred thousand, and so 0:28:39.640 --> 0:28:43.760 they did it again. And Lonnie's son Christopher had been 0:28:43.840 --> 0:28:47.880 charged with UM carrying a weapon and he pled guilty 0:28:48.440 --> 0:28:51.360 and as a result of his plea, he got swabbed 0:28:51.600 --> 0:28:53.720 and that was in two thousand nine, so he was 0:28:53.760 --> 0:28:56.840 in the system for she's just like close to a 0:28:56.960 --> 0:29:00.080 year you know, before they did that second d in 0:29:00.160 --> 0:29:03.720 a swab and it came back as a match to him, 0:29:03.840 --> 0:29:06.640 but he was They knew it wasn't him because he 0:29:06.680 --> 0:29:09.120 would have been about two years old when the murder started, 0:29:09.440 --> 0:29:12.040 so they knew he right, So they knew he had 0:29:12.080 --> 0:29:13.800 to be you know, he They knew he was related 0:29:13.800 --> 0:29:16.120 to the killer, and so they actually looked for any 0:29:16.200 --> 0:29:18.760 relative and there was an uncle, well, they thought there 0:29:18.800 --> 0:29:21.560 was an uncle in Rancho Cucamonga, but they ended up 0:29:22.080 --> 0:29:25.040 checking checking it out and finding that there was no relation. 0:29:25.480 --> 0:29:29.600 And then they found out that his father, Lonnie, lived 0:29:29.720 --> 0:29:32.280 like on eight one and Western, which was like at 0:29:32.320 --> 0:29:35.480 the epicenter of where all the murders took place. And 0:29:35.520 --> 0:29:39.240 so that's why they ended up you know, following you know, Lonnie. 0:29:39.360 --> 0:29:42.959 And after three days they got his DNA off a 0:29:42.960 --> 0:29:46.320 pizza slice. He went with his girlfriend to a pizza 0:29:46.360 --> 0:29:50.280 parlor and yeah, I read about that one of the articles. Yeah, 0:29:50.440 --> 0:29:53.800 I'm the LAPD cop. Impersonated waiter or something like that 0:29:54.360 --> 0:29:56.320 bus boy and went around and had like a bus 0:29:56.360 --> 0:29:59.000 band and half the stuff was Lonnie's and the other 0:29:59.040 --> 0:30:01.800 half was you know, just people at the table and 0:30:01.800 --> 0:30:03.960 it was like a kiddie's birthday party for kids, and 0:30:04.000 --> 0:30:07.120 kids are running around eating pizza. So the cop you know, 0:30:07.200 --> 0:30:09.360 just went and grabbed his dishes and they ended up 0:30:09.480 --> 0:30:11.680 they grabbed he had a plate with a piece of 0:30:11.760 --> 0:30:14.080 cake on it, and they ended up they were able 0:30:14.120 --> 0:30:18.160 to get the swab from a hardened piece of cheese 0:30:18.280 --> 0:30:25.200 from the pizza. Um, So did I hear you correctly? Um? 0:30:25.440 --> 0:30:29.240 Prefer to some psychics they were involved in this case. Well, 0:30:29.280 --> 0:30:32.800 I had when when the story broke into do I 0:30:32.840 --> 0:30:35.120 did another store? I did one in two thousand and six, 0:30:35.160 --> 0:30:36.680 and I did one in two thousand and eight, and 0:30:36.680 --> 0:30:39.080 that's when we nicknamed him the Grim Sleeper. So I 0:30:39.160 --> 0:30:42.000 ended up getting a lot of calls from people, and 0:30:42.080 --> 0:30:44.160 I want you know a few of them I got 0:30:44.280 --> 0:30:46.720 were from psychics. And one of them was this woman 0:30:46.800 --> 0:30:50.920 who believe that, you know, she knew who the killer 0:30:51.200 --> 0:30:53.920 was and he was killing women. He was a really 0:30:53.920 --> 0:30:55.760 good looking guy, and she said he was like a 0:30:55.760 --> 0:30:59.520 cross between what was his name? That what's his name? 0:31:00.360 --> 0:31:03.720 The tennis not the tennis player, you know. She said 0:31:03.760 --> 0:31:06.320 he was a cross between tiger Woods and I forget somebody. 0:31:06.360 --> 0:31:08.720 I forget who the other person was. She said he 0:31:08.800 --> 0:31:11.440 was a cross between and she said that, you know, 0:31:11.480 --> 0:31:16.920 he was a lawyer. His no, his wife didn't know 0:31:17.480 --> 0:31:18.680 I know. And I'm gonna have to look through my 0:31:18.680 --> 0:31:20.520 book to see what I what I wrote. For some reason, 0:31:20.560 --> 0:31:22.280 I can't remember. But yeah, so you know, I had 0:31:22.320 --> 0:31:24.520 a few people that did that. I had this one 0:31:24.600 --> 0:31:27.680 woman who contacted me and said that, you know, her house, 0:31:27.760 --> 0:31:29.400 she believed that her husband was a killer, but she 0:31:29.400 --> 0:31:32.480 didn't really have any good reason. Yeah, I think she 0:31:32.600 --> 0:31:35.560 just she just felt he was shady. Wasn't it something 0:31:35.600 --> 0:31:38.040 like that? Well, I mean, she just it was more 0:31:38.680 --> 0:31:41.320 like this gut feeling, she said. And she was like, 0:31:41.720 --> 0:31:43.520 I just want to make sure. And I said, well, 0:31:43.560 --> 0:31:45.000 just you know, touch to the police, and she's like no, 0:31:45.080 --> 0:31:47.720 when she was afraid that the police would basically, you know, 0:31:47.800 --> 0:31:50.960 like target him and whatever. And so she was like, 0:31:51.000 --> 0:31:52.960 if I get d N A, will you give it 0:31:53.000 --> 0:31:54.440 to the cops or test it. I'm like, well, we 0:31:54.440 --> 0:31:57.520 don't test DNA at the only weekly And I said, 0:31:57.520 --> 0:32:00.400 but I guess, And I said, I guess we could. 0:32:00.400 --> 0:32:01.760 I could give it to the police. And I just thought, 0:32:01.840 --> 0:32:03.160 you know, I was getting a lot of calls like 0:32:03.440 --> 0:32:05.320 you end up and I talked to so many people 0:32:05.320 --> 0:32:06.840 who I thought they were like, oh my god, it's 0:32:06.840 --> 0:32:09.440 so and so, and you're completely convinced. You're like, oh 0:32:09.480 --> 0:32:11.120 my god, it's got to be this person. And then 0:32:11.120 --> 0:32:13.080 all of a sudden, the next thing out of their 0:32:13.120 --> 0:32:15.800 mouth mouth is that, you know, the FBI is tapping 0:32:15.920 --> 0:32:18.680 their phone and the CIA is knocking on their door, 0:32:18.880 --> 0:32:20.520 and you're like, oh my god, said you had me 0:32:20.600 --> 0:32:23.240 for you know, so this woman, I didn't think i'd 0:32:23.240 --> 0:32:25.320 get a call back. And then and she called called 0:32:25.360 --> 0:32:27.880 me back and she was like, can we, you know, 0:32:27.960 --> 0:32:30.200 meet up? You know I have his you know d 0:32:30.320 --> 0:32:31.960 n A. And so I ended up meeting up with 0:32:32.000 --> 0:32:35.760 her and she told me she passed me it was 0:32:35.800 --> 0:32:38.680 like a not a like a Jason Bourne thing, and 0:32:38.720 --> 0:32:41.440 she's I met her on a bench near work and 0:32:41.680 --> 0:32:43.280 she sat down next to me and passed me in 0:32:43.360 --> 0:32:46.320 this bag and in there she was like, it's a 0:32:46.320 --> 0:32:49.280 cop and inside there's like the napkin. And she said 0:32:49.320 --> 0:32:50.760 it was a napkin and she said it were Simon 0:32:50.800 --> 0:32:51.760 on it. And I was like, oh my god. I 0:32:51.800 --> 0:32:53.680 thought it was supposed to be like a saliva sample 0:32:53.680 --> 0:32:57.560 and she's like no. I was like, oh no, And 0:32:57.560 --> 0:32:59.720 So I ended up calling the detective who was the 0:32:59.760 --> 0:33:01.800 main detective on the case, and I said, this is 0:33:01.840 --> 0:33:03.520 what I have, and all of a sudden there was 0:33:03.520 --> 0:33:07.080 a complete silence on the line and I'm like, one 0:33:07.120 --> 0:33:09.000 of my it was like a hundred degrees in l A. 0:33:09.000 --> 0:33:09.840 And I'm like, what do you want me to do? 0:33:09.880 --> 0:33:11.800 Can I drop it off? He's like, I'm out of town. 0:33:11.840 --> 0:33:14.960 He's like, put it in your fridge. I'll and I'll 0:33:15.000 --> 0:33:16.480 you know, to the l A. P D the next 0:33:16.520 --> 0:33:18.440 morning or whatever. I'm like, put in my fridge. He's like, yeah, 0:33:18.440 --> 0:33:20.080 I put it next year like veggies. And I'm like, 0:33:20.120 --> 0:33:24.120 oh my god. So I ended up putting it in 0:33:24.160 --> 0:33:27.440 the US. Was it at least like sealed at the 0:33:27.480 --> 0:33:29.560 ziplock bag? I hope? So it didn't stick up the 0:33:29.680 --> 0:33:37.720 your fridge. No, there wasn't any ziplock bag. Um. One 0:33:37.720 --> 0:33:41.040 of the things that I so I was wondering about 0:33:41.440 --> 0:33:44.200 is I noticed a lot of the girls, at least 0:33:44.240 --> 0:33:49.240 in the neighborhoods in the writing, they're referred to as strawberries. 0:33:50.320 --> 0:33:52.680 What is that and where exactly does that come from? 0:33:52.720 --> 0:33:55.800 Do you know, well, I know, like I know that 0:33:55.840 --> 0:33:58.880 it was a police term term used in the eighties 0:33:58.880 --> 0:34:03.280 and it was basically women, you know, who exchanged sex 0:34:03.280 --> 0:34:07.760 for drugs. But I don't know why how they got 0:34:07.880 --> 0:34:10.040 strawberry out of it, Like I just know that's what 0:34:10.160 --> 0:34:13.439 the term means, but I don't know why, Like who 0:34:13.480 --> 0:34:17.560 came up with strawberry? Okay, I was just curious if 0:34:17.560 --> 0:34:21.920 it just it struck me as a bit strange. Yeah, 0:34:22.239 --> 0:34:26.120 So let's talk a little bit about the task force 0:34:26.280 --> 0:34:29.799 that was formed in the two thousands that eventually would 0:34:29.840 --> 0:34:34.320 help catch Lonnie. Normally, task force are created by police 0:34:34.320 --> 0:34:37.120 departments and they stir up a lot of dust and 0:34:37.160 --> 0:34:41.480 then nothing seems to really come from it. Why was 0:34:41.680 --> 0:34:44.680 this particular task force, the eight hundred task force, you 0:34:44.760 --> 0:34:49.120 think so successful at what what they did? Well? I 0:34:49.160 --> 0:34:51.080 think they were success. I mean, at the end of 0:34:51.080 --> 0:34:54.120 the day, they were success. I mean the detective who 0:34:54.239 --> 0:34:56.680 is the supervisor in the case, he told me from 0:34:56.719 --> 0:34:58.480 the very beginning that the case was going to be 0:34:58.520 --> 0:35:03.239 solved through DNA. I these guys bent over backwards. You know, 0:35:03.239 --> 0:35:05.800 there was like seven or eight you know, task force members, 0:35:06.120 --> 0:35:07.920 and they bent over backwards. I mean they went through 0:35:07.920 --> 0:35:12.880 the murder books again. You know, they literally followed hundreds 0:35:12.960 --> 0:35:15.640 of people are you know, around like witnesses from the eighties, 0:35:15.719 --> 0:35:18.280 and you know, they were getting like hundreds of calls themselves, 0:35:18.280 --> 0:35:21.480 like thousands of calls, and they were following people around 0:35:21.600 --> 0:35:25.120 like obtaining you know, DNA swabs and things like that. 0:35:25.120 --> 0:35:27.719 Like they actually went to Georgia. There was one um 0:35:27.840 --> 0:35:30.799 they thought that there was a minister that might be involved, 0:35:30.920 --> 0:35:33.680 and so they actually flew to Georgia and he was 0:35:33.719 --> 0:35:35.760 in a crypt and they actually opened up the crypt 0:35:35.840 --> 0:35:38.799 and got a DNA sample, you know, because they were 0:35:39.080 --> 0:35:42.279 it was mostly about getting d N a right, you know, 0:35:42.320 --> 0:35:44.960 because it's like this case was like trying you know, 0:35:45.000 --> 0:35:46.880 it's trying to find a needle in a haystack. I 0:35:46.880 --> 0:35:50.000 mean how difficult. You know, it's a body dump left there, 0:35:50.600 --> 0:35:52.920 you know, back in the eighties and even two thousand 0:35:53.000 --> 0:35:56.080 to two thousand three, two thousand seven, I mean, no witnesses. 0:35:56.719 --> 0:35:58.920 You know, the bodies were dumped, They were killed somewhere 0:35:58.960 --> 0:36:01.120 else and dumped in the alley. I mean it was 0:36:01.160 --> 0:36:04.000 a miracle that they actually were able to find him 0:36:04.040 --> 0:36:06.160 and so soon too. I mean a lot of the case. 0:36:06.200 --> 0:36:08.000 Look at what happened with the Green River killer. It 0:36:08.080 --> 0:36:10.759 was like twenty something years before they finally caught him. 0:36:11.400 --> 0:36:14.239 Same with B t K. I remember, yeah too. I was. 0:36:14.280 --> 0:36:16.440 I was around for living in the area, and a 0:36:16.440 --> 0:36:18.680 lot of people were very angry after all those years 0:36:18.719 --> 0:36:20.960 and they still hadn't caught the guy. And it's just 0:36:21.040 --> 0:36:23.120 like you said, though you're looking for a needle in 0:36:23.160 --> 0:36:28.120 a haystack, it's expecting a lot, really, and it's really 0:36:28.160 --> 0:36:30.839 lucky that guy's kid got busted the year before they 0:36:30.880 --> 0:36:33.560 were nabbed him. Well, I don't think they ever if 0:36:33.600 --> 0:36:37.120 if it wasn't for that familiar DNA and that his son, 0:36:37.560 --> 0:36:39.279 I said, I don't think they ever would have caught 0:36:39.520 --> 0:36:41.880 I think it was just too difficult, you know, it 0:36:41.960 --> 0:36:44.120 was just it was just too hard. They were really 0:36:44.280 --> 0:36:48.919 they were really lucky. I think they were pretty shocked themselves. Yeah, 0:36:48.960 --> 0:36:51.480 I'm sure that that was, you know, somebody delivering the 0:36:51.600 --> 0:36:54.520 golden goose. Well, and all these guys, a lot of 0:36:54.520 --> 0:36:59.120 them were retiring, so this was like their last big case, right, 0:36:59.160 --> 0:37:01.520 So this was kind of, uh, the big case of 0:37:01.560 --> 0:37:04.040 their career, and to be able to solve it, you know, 0:37:04.160 --> 0:37:06.960 it was just what a great way to retire, right 0:37:07.000 --> 0:37:10.960 on that note, That's pretty awesome. Yeah, absolutely, so you 0:37:11.000 --> 0:37:12.919 knew these guys. Did they have a big party when 0:37:12.960 --> 0:37:16.160 the whole thing was over. Um, well, they probably did, 0:37:16.160 --> 0:37:24.120 but they didn't invite me. Yeah. Now, I actually I 0:37:24.200 --> 0:37:27.000 did go to Uh I did you know? At first 0:37:27.040 --> 0:37:30.839 my relationship with them, it wasn't very good. But I 0:37:30.880 --> 0:37:33.000 think as the time went by, you know, like I've 0:37:33.000 --> 0:37:34.680 called them up and you know, give them you know, 0:37:34.840 --> 0:37:36.640 this person called me, did you check them out? And 0:37:36.680 --> 0:37:38.560 they'd be like, yeah, yeah, we already checked that person 0:37:38.600 --> 0:37:40.960 out or whatever. So I, you know, and they'd have 0:37:41.200 --> 0:37:44.040 you know, no police press conferences all the time, and 0:37:44.080 --> 0:37:46.319 I'd go there and you know, talk to them. So 0:37:46.360 --> 0:37:49.200 I think they'd begrudgingly, we're okay with me. And then 0:37:49.360 --> 0:37:53.040 so when they retired, I was invited to um two 0:37:53.040 --> 0:37:55.279 of the two of the detectives retirement party. So I 0:37:55.280 --> 0:37:57.240 thought that was pretty good. And I'm still in contact 0:37:57.239 --> 0:38:02.640 with a couple of the detectives. Still nice. That very cool. Yeah, 0:38:03.000 --> 0:38:07.640 UM asked any other questions? Uh, so, well, you're you're 0:38:07.640 --> 0:38:09.439 with people now, You're not in the l A beat 0:38:09.480 --> 0:38:12.720 so much anymore. So I'm just gonna ask, just by chance, 0:38:12.760 --> 0:38:16.839 are you following any serial active serial killers right now? Well? Not. Well, 0:38:16.880 --> 0:38:20.440 I'm working on a case actually, um, well, not working out. 0:38:20.440 --> 0:38:22.759 But there's a guy, there's another serial killer, but he 0:38:22.840 --> 0:38:27.200 was he's in jail right now pending trial. And he 0:38:27.280 --> 0:38:30.879 was a serial killer who murdered one of m well, 0:38:30.920 --> 0:38:33.560 there was a girl that was dating actually Ashton Kutcher 0:38:33.600 --> 0:38:35.560 at the time, back in two thousand and one one. 0:38:35.760 --> 0:38:39.680 And he lived in Chicago and killed allegedly killed a 0:38:39.719 --> 0:38:42.719 young girl there and then moved to Los Angeles and 0:38:42.760 --> 0:38:47.359 then killed three women here. And so he's sitting on 0:38:48.120 --> 0:38:50.560 in County jail waiting for his trial, which is probably 0:38:50.600 --> 0:38:54.719 gonna come in November. But I'm not There's a few cases, 0:38:54.760 --> 0:38:57.919 like the Long Island serial killer. That's one that I've 0:38:57.960 --> 0:38:59.839 done a lot of work on, you know, that one 0:39:00.080 --> 0:39:02.400 that's not in l A. I do a lot of 0:39:02.560 --> 0:39:05.520 l A cases, But I don't there's one, actually, there 0:39:05.560 --> 0:39:07.520 is one case, but it's not the case. It's um 0:39:07.680 --> 0:39:11.440 this case called the Teardrop Rapist. And there's this rapist 0:39:11.480 --> 0:39:15.600 who had been raping women like Hispanic women, and he's 0:39:15.640 --> 0:39:19.879 also Hispanic himself, and he had been raping women since 0:39:19.920 --> 0:39:24.719 the eighties, almost as prolific as Lonnie Franklin. He's he well, 0:39:24.760 --> 0:39:27.480 he raped over fifty women from like the late eighties, 0:39:27.520 --> 0:39:30.160 and they still haven't caught him, and they've tried familiar 0:39:30.280 --> 0:39:32.800 DNA testing and everything, and he's still on the loose 0:39:32.840 --> 0:39:34.959 and his last victim was a couple of years ago. 0:39:37.320 --> 0:39:39.600 He sorry, there was a pause there. We were all 0:39:39.640 --> 0:39:43.160 just kind of yeah, I don't like to think about that. 0:39:43.600 --> 0:39:45.400 I just keep hoping that that guy is going to 0:39:45.520 --> 0:39:47.480 run into somebody who's got a big old knife or 0:39:47.480 --> 0:39:49.400 a gun, honor. That would just end the whole thing 0:39:49.480 --> 0:39:53.120 that'd become of nice, that act. Well, he was just sorry, 0:39:53.120 --> 0:39:55.480 go ahead. Oh, I was just gonna say, I've actually 0:39:55.640 --> 0:39:58.799 just recently read us an article I can't remember where 0:39:58.840 --> 0:40:03.400 this woman was, of some guy who met a woman 0:40:03.400 --> 0:40:06.640 through some website and he came over. It was very 0:40:06.719 --> 0:40:10.719 obvious that he intended to to end her life, and 0:40:10.800 --> 0:40:13.800 she turned the tables on him, and you know, he's 0:40:13.960 --> 0:40:16.920 dead in the ground and they can't figure out. I 0:40:16.920 --> 0:40:19.319 can't remember who his name is now was I just 0:40:19.400 --> 0:40:22.120 read it the other day and they she took him 0:40:22.120 --> 0:40:23.239 out and they were like, oh, yeah, I know. He 0:40:23.280 --> 0:40:26.440 had shovels, he had stuff he was he was going 0:40:26.560 --> 0:40:31.239 to remove your body. It so it sometimes that happens, Joe, 0:40:31.640 --> 0:40:33.879 I know it says. It warms my heart to hear 0:40:33.880 --> 0:40:37.040 about it too. What they call the hero Hooker or 0:40:37.080 --> 0:40:40.880 something like that. It was really the name Wasn't Wasn't. 0:40:40.960 --> 0:40:42.600 I heard about that case too. I think it was 0:40:42.640 --> 0:40:45.560 back east right maybe around Cleveland or somewhere. And the 0:40:45.680 --> 0:40:48.320 girl he came over to her house and he jumped 0:40:48.320 --> 0:40:50.560 here and she had I forget what she had, and 0:40:50.600 --> 0:40:52.799 she just beat him, you know, beat him to a pulp. 0:40:52.840 --> 0:40:55.239 And then they end up finding all this in the 0:40:55.280 --> 0:40:57.400 back of his trunk. He had all this, you know, 0:40:57.480 --> 0:40:59.759 like ropes and all this other stuff. And then they 0:41:00.000 --> 0:41:01.960 they found out that he was responsible for like three 0:41:02.040 --> 0:41:04.879 or four other murders. Yeah, and they couldn't figure out 0:41:04.880 --> 0:41:08.160 how he was funding his cross country tour of killing 0:41:08.280 --> 0:41:11.160 because he just he was like a night security guard 0:41:11.280 --> 0:41:14.280 or something like that. I it's the details are pretty 0:41:14.360 --> 0:41:18.560 soft at this point in my brain, but that's pretty awesome. 0:41:18.960 --> 0:41:22.440 So ahead, And I was gonna say last question about California, 0:41:22.760 --> 0:41:25.479 since you're still living there. My this is really off 0:41:26.239 --> 0:41:28.279 serial killers, but they're kind of been my serial killer 0:41:28.360 --> 0:41:30.840 Hall of Fame, which would be Leonard Lake and Charles 0:41:31.000 --> 0:41:33.399 NG and I know Charles in the last I heard 0:41:33.480 --> 0:41:35.640 is on death row in California? Is he's still on 0:41:35.719 --> 0:41:39.920 death row? They finally together because he was sentencing and 0:41:40.239 --> 0:41:43.000 last I heard, he's still alive. Do you know if 0:41:43.040 --> 0:41:45.239 they finally knocked him off or not? You know what, 0:41:45.320 --> 0:41:48.120 I'm not sure, but I believe he's still on death row. 0:41:48.680 --> 0:41:51.640 A really sounds like a simple Google search. Joe, Oh yeah, 0:41:51.680 --> 0:41:53.520 I suppose that. Well. I I'm not near a computer 0:41:53.600 --> 0:41:55.279 right now except the one that we're using to talk 0:41:55.280 --> 0:41:58.080 to talk to her, so I can't really do it. 0:41:59.000 --> 0:42:00.839 I didn't occur to. He tells us, now, what's going 0:42:00.880 --> 0:42:04.680 on with Charles, saying, wonder if he's dead yet? Probably not. 0:42:04.840 --> 0:42:08.960 I don't think so. I don't think he is. Okay, Christine, 0:42:08.960 --> 0:42:12.640 you know we we've been remissing this so far, and 0:42:12.760 --> 0:42:14.919 I'll make sure that this is in the beginning of 0:42:14.960 --> 0:42:18.960 the everything when we release. But I forgot to ask 0:42:19.080 --> 0:42:21.560 to make sure that we had given the full title 0:42:21.600 --> 0:42:23.440 of the name of your book, So can you share 0:42:23.440 --> 0:42:26.320 that with everybody real fast? Oh? Sure? It's The Grim 0:42:26.640 --> 0:42:30.480 Sleep for the Lost Women of South Central And is 0:42:30.520 --> 0:42:37.400 this your first book you've written? Others, Oh, it is okay, know, 0:42:37.719 --> 0:42:41.560 my first and probably the only book. Congratulations, that's a 0:42:41.600 --> 0:42:44.239 great accomplishment. I've been wanting to write a book for 0:42:44.320 --> 0:42:46.840 a long time now. I still haven't quite achieved it. 0:42:47.000 --> 0:42:51.360 I haven't even written the first page. How was the experience. 0:42:53.160 --> 0:42:55.719 I just thought in this case, it was just if 0:42:55.719 --> 0:42:58.000 the detectives weren't going to write the story, or the 0:42:58.000 --> 0:43:01.239 prosecutors or you know, my members of you know, of 0:43:01.280 --> 0:43:02.719 the victims, that they weren't going to do it. I 0:43:02.760 --> 0:43:04.719 just thought thought that I was the you know, since 0:43:04.760 --> 0:43:06.719 I had been you know, and I just and I 0:43:06.840 --> 0:43:08.360 kept you know, I had all my notes, and I 0:43:08.440 --> 0:43:11.359 knew everybody involved, so if anyone was going to write 0:43:11.400 --> 0:43:13.640 it, and and I just felt like I should, you know, 0:43:13.680 --> 0:43:15.200 And if I was ever going to write a book, 0:43:15.320 --> 0:43:16.920 I thought to myself, this is the book that I 0:43:17.360 --> 0:43:20.000 should write because this is the one I know so well. 0:43:20.360 --> 0:43:24.879 I know everybody involved, I know the case. That's why 0:43:24.880 --> 0:43:28.839 I decided. I mean, the hurdles they came up, and 0:43:28.960 --> 0:43:32.600 the gaps and everything. I kept reading it. I I really, 0:43:32.960 --> 0:43:35.120 I will admit there was a couple of times I thought, 0:43:35.120 --> 0:43:37.319 maybe you took a little bit of artistic license. Until 0:43:37.320 --> 0:43:38.920 I figured out I was like, no, this only crap 0:43:39.040 --> 0:43:43.359 is really happening. Well, I just think that like this 0:43:43.440 --> 0:43:45.239 case in particular, I just thought that it was a 0:43:45.239 --> 0:43:48.520 case that people should know about because I know, you know, 0:43:49.280 --> 0:43:51.239 there's a lot of cases out there that got a 0:43:51.239 --> 0:43:54.399 lot more attention, and I felt like there wasn't enough 0:43:54.440 --> 0:43:56.880 attention to this case and to the victims, and so 0:43:56.960 --> 0:43:59.440 I just really wanted to make people aware of, you know, 0:43:59.520 --> 0:44:02.680 who who the victims were, and you know, they mattered, 0:44:02.719 --> 0:44:05.400 their families mattered, you know, said to me, it was 0:44:05.440 --> 0:44:07.600 like important for that to get out there because you know, 0:44:07.640 --> 0:44:09.440 as you know, you know, you guys do a lot 0:44:09.440 --> 0:44:11.279 of crime. There's a lot of stories that you never 0:44:11.360 --> 0:44:13.759 hear about, you know, and they're just as important as 0:44:13.760 --> 0:44:16.680 every other story, you know. So I just wanted this, 0:44:16.840 --> 0:44:18.520 you know, I wanted people to know who you know, 0:44:18.560 --> 0:44:22.200 Deborah was, and Henrietta and Bernida and Genetia, you know, 0:44:22.200 --> 0:44:26.680 all his victims. So absolutely that's why I did it. Well, 0:44:26.680 --> 0:44:28.960 that's that's great, I mean we did. We tend to 0:44:29.080 --> 0:44:31.840 like the smaller, lesser known mysteries for that reason, because 0:44:32.160 --> 0:44:35.400 everybody could talk about Ted Bundy every day, but everybody 0:44:35.440 --> 0:44:38.160 really knows that story. Yeah, everybody talks about John Bone 0:44:38.239 --> 0:44:41.200 and we're like, we're not We're not going to do that. 0:44:41.840 --> 0:44:45.880 There's so many other more interesting cases that we could find, 0:44:46.160 --> 0:44:50.120 you know, and do more justice too. Yeah, and they 0:44:50.160 --> 0:44:53.120 just never get the attention. So, you know, this guy 0:44:53.200 --> 0:44:56.759 was like the most prolific serial killer you know in 0:44:56.880 --> 0:45:00.520 like Los Angeles history, you know, and they should people 0:45:00.520 --> 0:45:03.120 should know about it. People should know about the victims 0:45:03.160 --> 0:45:05.279 and who they were, and you know what happened, and 0:45:05.640 --> 0:45:07.840 you know, and it's just it's just a really interesting 0:45:08.200 --> 0:45:10.520 story as well, you know, just from the very beginning. 0:45:10.600 --> 0:45:12.799 I mean, you know, him being in the military and 0:45:12.880 --> 0:45:15.120 just you know, all the way through. So you know, 0:45:15.239 --> 0:45:17.120 I think it's you know, I just think it's a 0:45:17.160 --> 0:45:22.080 compelling tale that people should read well and and for 0:45:22.120 --> 0:45:25.319 everybody who wants to pick up a copy and and 0:45:25.360 --> 0:45:28.719 read the tale. Where are where can people find enemy? 0:45:28.800 --> 0:45:32.040 Is it an e book? Is it at certain retailers? Oh? Yeah, 0:45:32.040 --> 0:45:33.720 you could get it. It's a new release at Barnes 0:45:33.760 --> 0:45:37.560 and Noble. Um, you could get it at any bookstore 0:45:37.600 --> 0:45:40.680 pretty much. You can get it online and Amazon. You 0:45:40.680 --> 0:45:43.680 could go to my website. Christine pelisak dot com and 0:45:43.920 --> 0:45:46.759 there's a linked to Amazon where you could you could 0:45:46.760 --> 0:45:49.800 get it on Amazon. Um, if you're in Canada, you 0:45:49.840 --> 0:45:52.680 could get it on Amazon dot c A or Indigo 0:45:52.760 --> 0:45:55.600 dot c A. I was just in Canada and I'm Canadian. 0:45:55.600 --> 0:45:58.920 That's what I'm saying that I was wondering if you like, 0:45:59.120 --> 0:46:04.520 you know, it sounds slightly Canadian. Yeah, you say a 0:46:04.600 --> 0:46:12.719 lot constantly, so yeah, I think you could pretty much 0:46:12.760 --> 0:46:19.719 get it most places. Okay, well we are weird. We've 0:46:19.760 --> 0:46:22.600 decimated this question and list that I have in front 0:46:22.600 --> 0:46:25.520 of me was more than decimated. Yeah, we decimated. We 0:46:25.520 --> 0:46:27.600 would only have executed one out of ten. I have 0:46:27.680 --> 0:46:31.759 to keep reminding people about that. Um So, is there 0:46:31.800 --> 0:46:34.520 any any last bits that you'd like to to bring 0:46:34.600 --> 0:46:36.719 up for folks to know about the case or the 0:46:36.800 --> 0:46:41.160 book or anything like that before we wrap everything up. No, 0:46:41.280 --> 0:46:44.439 I don't think so, I think, I you know, I don't. 0:46:44.800 --> 0:46:47.320 I can't recall anything else. I just think that people, 0:46:47.480 --> 0:46:49.319 I think. I just think it's an interesting story that 0:46:49.360 --> 0:46:52.319 people should everyone should you know, know all about it? 0:46:52.640 --> 0:46:56.719 We agree, Yeah, definitely, Well it is. It has been 0:46:56.760 --> 0:46:59.120 a lot of fun to get to chat with you again. 0:46:59.239 --> 0:47:01.239 Thank you so much for taking the time to talk 0:47:01.280 --> 0:47:04.520 to us today. Yeah, well, thank you very much. I 0:47:04.560 --> 0:47:06.640 had a lot of fun and I hope it made sense, 0:47:07.640 --> 0:47:11.120 but you totally did. Uh, you know, and tell best 0:47:11.120 --> 0:47:13.120 of luck with salesview book. I hope it's a runaway 0:47:13.120 --> 0:47:15.719 best seller and I can picture it now with Tom 0:47:15.760 --> 0:47:18.800 Cruise is a handsome police detective and Denzel Washington is 0:47:18.800 --> 0:47:21.919 a serial killer. And so we'll see and we'll see 0:47:21.960 --> 0:47:24.160 what happens. You never know. Well, I'll keep our fingers 0:47:24.160 --> 0:47:26.600 crossed for you. Yeah, and whoever you want to play you? 0:47:26.960 --> 0:47:36.520 Oh yeah, good point. Yes, I was thinking Charlie's theo on. Okay, 0:47:37.239 --> 0:47:39.799 thank you again, and you have a good evening. Yeah, 0:47:39.800 --> 0:47:42.080 thank you guys very much. I really appreciate it. Nice 0:47:42.080 --> 0:47:44.600 talk chatting with you guys. By right, we'll see you 0:47:44.600 --> 0:47:44.960 next time.