Speaker 1: Thinking sideways. OK, I'll broke the ideas. I don't know
Speaker 1: stories of things. We simply doom. None of the answa too. Hey, everybody.
Speaker 1: As you know from yesterday's episode about the Daytona Beach
Speaker 1: serial killer, we got a chance to speak with reporter
Speaker 1: Christine Palisac about Lonnie Franklin Jr. A k a. The
Speaker 1: Grim Sleeper, and Christine recently published her book The Grim
Speaker 1: Sleeper The Lost Women of South Central which sells the
Speaker 1: story of serial killer Lonnie David Franklin, Jr. Who killed
Speaker 1: believe it's believed between thirteen to plus women between the
Speaker 1: years of and two thousand seven. The book is available
Speaker 1: at most e book and brick and mortar book retailers,
Speaker 1: and if you want, you can go to Christine's website
Speaker 1: Christine palisc dot com at c h R I S
Speaker 1: T I N E P E L I s e
Speaker 1: K dot com. You're read an overview of the book,
Speaker 1: and she's also got a direct link on there to
Speaker 1: Amazon if you want to purchase it yourself. It's a
Speaker 1: great read. I enjoyed it and I'd recommend that you
Speaker 1: pick up a copy. But any who, As usual, we
Speaker 1: like to share these interviews with you typically, since so
Speaker 1: much of the conversation doesn't make it into the episode.
Speaker 1: One quick thing. Bear in mind that we talked over Skype,
Speaker 1: so you may hear some odd bits of audio from
Speaker 1: time to time. We've corrected as much as we could,
Speaker 1: but we hope you enjoy hearing the conversation with Christine
Speaker 1: as much as we enjoyed having it. Let's roll that
Speaker 1: interview if you don't mind, can you introduce yourself to
Speaker 1: all of our listeners. Sure, my name is Christine Palasac.
Speaker 1: I'm a senior writer with People Magazine, and I'm the
Speaker 1: author of The Grim Sleeper And just you know, in
Speaker 1: in as much detailer as little detail as you want,
Speaker 1: can you kind of give us an overview of the
Speaker 1: Grim Sleeper case. Sure. The Grim Sleeper case pretty much
Speaker 1: started in in the nineteen eighties and South Los Angeles. Um.
Speaker 1: He was a serial killer active. He started in ninety
Speaker 1: five and he killed seven women from and Uh. He
Speaker 1: had a survivor who survived in November, and then he
Speaker 1: possibly took a thirteen and a half year break and
Speaker 1: then resumed killing again in two thousand two, and then
Speaker 1: two thousand three and two thousand seven, and he was
Speaker 1: finally caught in two thousand and ten through familial DNA testing,
Speaker 1: and he was uh the longest operating serial killer west
Speaker 1: of the mississipp be He was one of the most
Speaker 1: prolific serial killers in Los Angeles history. His His main
Speaker 1: targets were poor, young black women. Most of them had
Speaker 1: drug addictions, UM, a few of them had prostitution arrests. Um.
Speaker 1: He shot them in the chest with the caliber. The
Speaker 1: bulk of his victims and his later victims, he strangled
Speaker 1: a few of them. And the women you know, basically
Speaker 1: ranged an age from fifteen to thirty five. One of
Speaker 1: the things I was I'm kind of curious about and
Speaker 1: I Steve gave me a copy of your book to read,
Speaker 1: and I haven't been able to start it yet, but
Speaker 1: I did read some of your articles in l A
Speaker 1: Weekly about him. Now I just lost my question. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: but did he ever confess to any of these things?
Speaker 1: Did he ever own up to it? And did he
Speaker 1: ever confess to any others outside the eleven killings that
Speaker 1: he did? I think it doesn't sound like you. No, No,
Speaker 1: he never confessed, not even to the ones that he
Speaker 1: was convicted for. No, No, not at all, he didn't,
Speaker 1: and I know that some of you know, the police
Speaker 1: actually listened to his conversations he had with some family
Speaker 1: members and you know, he denied having, you know, anything
Speaker 1: to do with the crime. Times. You know, he denied
Speaker 1: that he made excuse. They found a lot of photos
Speaker 1: in his home. After he was arrested, they went and
Speaker 1: they did a three day search. Well actually they found
Speaker 1: more than that. They found. They found like dozens and
Speaker 1: dozens of videotape as well as photos, and they actually
Speaker 1: weaned them down because some of them were duplicates, so
Speaker 1: they weaned it down to a hundred and eighty. But
Speaker 1: they found like, you know, way more photos. And so
Speaker 1: when they did the search in his house, um, you know,
Speaker 1: family members and friends you know, asked him, like what
Speaker 1: about these photos, and he basically said that because he
Speaker 1: was a car mechanic, he led, he said, he told
Speaker 1: them that basically the photos were left you know, in cars,
Speaker 1: and he just happened to have them. And that's why,
Speaker 1: like he didn't admit that he was taking photos, even
Speaker 1: though he definitely had a bunch of cameras and things
Speaker 1: like that. So now he didn't admit anything, I mean,
Speaker 1: all he admitted to his friends was that he's a philanderer.
Speaker 1: I mean, he admitted that he had a lot of
Speaker 1: girl friends. He bragged about having numerous girl friends. I mean,
Speaker 1: he was married at the time when he was caught.
Speaker 1: He had been married for thirty two years. He was
Speaker 1: a grandfather, and but he told some of his friends that,
Speaker 1: you know, he had a number of girl friends over
Speaker 1: the years. And then he also picked up girls on
Speaker 1: the streets, and you know, he had nicknames for them
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. So he was he was quite
Speaker 1: a bragger when it came to, you know, his love life.
Speaker 1: Besides you know, the murders. Of course, he didn't talk
Speaker 1: about those. What what drew you to this case? I mean,
Speaker 1: and what and at what point did you kind of
Speaker 1: decide to really invest as much time and energy into
Speaker 1: it as you did. I mean, I personally would have
Speaker 1: a really hard time with the case like this. Well,
Speaker 1: I mean it just kind of fell in my lap really.
Speaker 1: I mean I found out about it through the corner's office.
Speaker 1: I used to go over to the corners office all
Speaker 1: the time, and I talked to the corner there and
Speaker 1: asked him, uh, you know, if there was any cases
Speaker 1: over the weekend, you know that I should write about.
Speaker 1: And one of the times I was over there, he
Speaker 1: basically said that the Corner's Office had started the Serial
Speaker 1: Killer Task Force to look into these body dumps, which
Speaker 1: were you know, basically women that were found dead around
Speaker 1: South Los Angeles and all actually all over l A County.
Speaker 1: And some of the women were found in parks, some
Speaker 1: of them in you know, field some of them in
Speaker 1: alley ways, some of them in garbage dumpsters. And they
Speaker 1: found thirty eight women in between two thousand two and
Speaker 1: two thousand six, and so the Coroner's office decided to
Speaker 1: look into it to see if there was any you know,
Speaker 1: links if there was a serial killer, and I mean
Speaker 1: they tried talking to the police, and a lot of
Speaker 1: the police were just say, mind your own business. You're
Speaker 1: the corner you know, you don't need to worry about
Speaker 1: you know, homicides things like that. And so he actually
Speaker 1: told me how they were looking into this, and so
Speaker 1: I asked him, you know, how it was going, and
Speaker 1: he said that, you know, they were overwhelmed by so
Speaker 1: many a case bees. I mean, at the Corners Office,
Speaker 1: they have like, you know, ten to thirty cases a day,
Speaker 1: you know, so they were all the investigators were really
Speaker 1: busy and they didn't have time to look into these cases.
Speaker 1: And so I kept bothering them about it, just asking.
Speaker 1: I'm like, what's the progress, you know, if you found anything,
Speaker 1: and he said, you know, they really hadn't been able
Speaker 1: to start looking at it. And so I was like,
Speaker 1: let me look at it, you know, let me, I'll
Speaker 1: look you know, look into it. And he was like no.
Speaker 1: And but finally, after a few months, he actually gave
Speaker 1: me the list of thirty eight women. And so at
Speaker 1: that point, you know, I didn't know anything, and you know,
Speaker 1: so I just started calling all the law enforcement agencies
Speaker 1: because the women were found all over l A County.
Speaker 1: So there was like Downey Police, you know, l A
Speaker 1: p D. L A County law enforcement agencies that had
Speaker 1: some of these cases. And so I started calling them
Speaker 1: all to see if there was any connection, if they
Speaker 1: thought there was any connection, if any of the cases
Speaker 1: had been solved. And I mean in some of the cases,
Speaker 1: I mean, they had a case where a woman was
Speaker 1: found burned to death in a car and it turned
Speaker 1: out that she was with a john and she had
Speaker 1: died of an overdose and he didn't want to take
Speaker 1: her to the hospital or anything. So he actually started
Speaker 1: the car on fire and tried to burn her because
Speaker 1: he was hoping that his DNA wouldn't be left on her,
Speaker 1: you know. So yeah, no, And so there was other case.
Speaker 1: Actually a couple of the cases were like natural causes
Speaker 1: and you know, things like that, and some of them
Speaker 1: were you know, the boyfriend killed the woman, you know
Speaker 1: sort of thing. But as I was going along, I
Speaker 1: got to the thirty seventh case, and it was Princess
Speaker 1: Birth of Mew and she was a fifteen year old
Speaker 1: runaway from Inglewood, which is kind of next to Los
Speaker 1: Angeles in l A County. And uh, I ended up
Speaker 1: finally talking to the Englewood detective that was working on
Speaker 1: the case, and he told me that her case, which
Speaker 1: was in two thousand and two, was linked to a
Speaker 1: case in two thousand and three and that was an
Speaker 1: l A. P D case, and those two cases were
Speaker 1: linked to a series of twenty five caliber murderers back
Speaker 1: in the eighties. And so he was the one who
Speaker 1: actually told me about this link, and then I found it.
Speaker 1: I ended up writing a story about it. But you know,
Speaker 1: like the police basically didn't tell anyone in the community,
Speaker 1: like no one knew, like none of the family members knew.
Speaker 1: I mean I was sort of the first one. Well,
Speaker 1: I was the first one to tell some of the
Speaker 1: family members that their daughters had been killed by a
Speaker 1: serial killer. And so I ended up just I kept
Speaker 1: looking into it, and then basically about a year later, um,
Speaker 1: I found out that the killer had struck again in
Speaker 1: two thousand and seven, and at that point the L A. P.
Speaker 1: D Um decided to like admit, you know, that there
Speaker 1: was a serial killer out there, and then they ended
Speaker 1: up they had a task force going and the city
Speaker 1: council put a five thousand dollar reward looking for information.
Speaker 1: And I don't know, I mean, I was just it
Speaker 1: was something that I fascinated with and I was hoping
Speaker 1: that they would, you know, catch the guy. And I
Speaker 1: mean one of the victims, her and I would drive
Speaker 1: around the neighborhoods together, you know, trying to find the
Speaker 1: house because there was one survivor. And he picked her
Speaker 1: up at a liquor store and then told older she
Speaker 1: was going to a party. He said he was going
Speaker 1: a driver to the party, but instead he stopped at
Speaker 1: He said it was his uncle's house. But the police
Speaker 1: believe he went into the house, got a gun, went
Speaker 1: out and shot her about two minutes later, and she
Speaker 1: actually was able to back. She took the detectives back
Speaker 1: to this house, which was owned by a guy named
Speaker 1: Othis White, and it turned out that it was three
Speaker 1: doors down from where Lonnie Franklin, the killer lived, And
Speaker 1: so her and I on a number of occasions, like
Speaker 1: drove around the streets looking for the houses, you know,
Speaker 1: the house, and so, you know, on a number of
Speaker 1: occasions we did that and she was like, there's definitely
Speaker 1: it was a side door and it was white. And
Speaker 1: you know, there's like a zillion houses set you know,
Speaker 1: have an entrance to the side and that are white. So,
Speaker 1: you know, we went around and we did some interviewing
Speaker 1: together as well as I tried to find out my
Speaker 1: own stuff. And I got a lot of people contacting me,
Speaker 1: like psychics, and I had a few people that believed
Speaker 1: that their friend or their husband were the killer, and
Speaker 1: I ended up getting like DNA from them to take
Speaker 1: it to the you know, to take to the police.
Speaker 1: So it was kind of crazy at times. Yeah. Now,
Speaker 1: now the victim that you were just talking about, that's
Speaker 1: miss Washington, correct Washington. Yeah, yeah, okay, she's she was
Speaker 1: the the sole survivor. And that was what year was
Speaker 1: that that attempt made? That was the eighties, right, it
Speaker 1: was it was novemb okay, you know, So that that
Speaker 1: does lead us into another question. You know, she's the
Speaker 1: only surviving witness. But what I've always wondered about when
Speaker 1: I was reading about Lonnie, and of course then you
Speaker 1: know the other serial killer cases is and this is
Speaker 1: just your opinion, it's really what I'm after here, but
Speaker 1: how is it that nobody saw him? Like, there was
Speaker 1: no witnesses to what he was doing? Well? Um, and
Speaker 1: it ended up that, I mean, he had his trial
Speaker 1: last year, already got convicted, and during the death penalty,
Speaker 1: another woman came forward and said that she was also
Speaker 1: a victim of his. So there's actually possibly two survivors.
Speaker 1: And she actually said that she was um at a
Speaker 1: bus stop and it was about ten o'clock because a
Speaker 1: lot of the victims, like a ny Tria, it was
Speaker 1: late at night. With this woman, Laura More, it was
Speaker 1: late at night. She was at a bus stop. He
Speaker 1: drives up, you know, he drove up to both of
Speaker 1: them and just said, hey, you know, could I give
Speaker 1: you a ride and be Tria actually talked to him
Speaker 1: for a few minutes before she got into the car,
Speaker 1: and Laura Moore actually turned him down, and he just
Speaker 1: kept going around and going around until finally she got
Speaker 1: in the car with them, and then he takes them
Speaker 1: right to an alley. And I mean a lot of
Speaker 1: the victims, you know, were picked up late at night,
Speaker 1: and I think that's why there wasn't any witnesses. I mean,
Speaker 1: there was one witness, alleged witness actually for the Bernida Sparks.
Speaker 1: She was one of the victims. And one woman said
Speaker 1: she thought that she saw BERNIEA. Sparks that night getting
Speaker 1: into the car with somebody, but you know, a lot
Speaker 1: of them was I think the only reason. I think
Speaker 1: a lot of it was that it was late at
Speaker 1: night and there wasn't a lot of people out on
Speaker 1: the street. Eat. I think that's why. And I mean
Speaker 1: he and also too, I mean, he knew what he
Speaker 1: was doing, so you know, he's going to be stealthy, right,
Speaker 1: He's not going to do it when there's a hundred
Speaker 1: people around. You know, He's going to make sure it's
Speaker 1: late at night. And I mean when the police were
Speaker 1: following him around, you know, after they got the familiar
Speaker 1: DNA from the sun the match with the Sun. They
Speaker 1: followed him around and he left his home one night
Speaker 1: at like three o'clock in the morning, and he went
Speaker 1: to forty second and Western, which was like kind of
Speaker 1: a popular prostitution hanging out and there was two girls
Speaker 1: standing on the street and it was really secluded in
Speaker 1: the detectives there was this undercover cop following him, and
Speaker 1: he made a point to say to the detectives, He's like,
Speaker 1: I'm afraid that he's going to find out that I'm
Speaker 1: following him because there was like literally no one on
Speaker 1: the street. So he picks times when there's not a
Speaker 1: lot of people around, you know, that's why I think
Speaker 1: there's no witnesses. And then he brings them to alley
Speaker 1: ways and not a lot of people hanging out in
Speaker 1: the alleyways at four o'clock in the morning. Do you
Speaker 1: think their line of work had something to do with
Speaker 1: the lack of witnesses as well? That may be. You know,
Speaker 1: people that were around were other other you know, women
Speaker 1: who were prostitutes or whatever, and weren't paying so much
Speaker 1: attention to the fact that you might just get in
Speaker 1: a car with a John Well, I think it was.
Speaker 1: I mean, some of the girls definitely had prostitution records,
Speaker 1: but I mean some of them, like I mean Deborah Jackson,
Speaker 1: she was gay and she was just taking a bus,
Speaker 1: you know, to her home, like where she was living.
Speaker 1: So how he came across her, It's it's hard to say.
Speaker 1: I mean, Laura Moore was picked up at a bus stop,
Speaker 1: you know, in Natria, was at a liquor store, you know.
Speaker 1: So it's hard to say whether any of the girls
Speaker 1: were like on a stroll because a lot of the girls,
Speaker 1: like you have to remember back then it was like
Speaker 1: the crack cocaine era, and so there weren't a lot
Speaker 1: of the girls weren't like technically prostitutes. Like they walk up,
Speaker 1: you know, down the streets. Some guy would pull up
Speaker 1: and he'd be like, hey, do you want to smoke
Speaker 1: some crack? And you know, the girls were so dope,
Speaker 1: doped up, They're like sure, and they just jumped in
Speaker 1: the car and they need to drive off. It wasn't
Speaker 1: like standing on a owner with ten girls, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. So so
Speaker 1: so it appears and he did actually probably put some
Speaker 1: of them in by offering them drugs instead of cash.
Speaker 1: Oh for sure. I mean yeah, I think he definitely
Speaker 1: did that. And I mean he, you know, according to
Speaker 1: what the police told me, I mean, he didn't smoke,
Speaker 1: and he really didn't drink very much himself, but he
Speaker 1: knew that, you know, he could lure girls in with drugs.
Speaker 1: So I think that that's exactly what he was doing.
Speaker 1: I mean I know that he was also you know,
Speaker 1: paying some girls, because there was a videotape that the
Speaker 1: prosecutor show during his trial, and he video taped this
Speaker 1: girl and she didn't It looked like she had no
Speaker 1: idea he was videotaping her. And she kind of comes
Speaker 1: out of this bathroom and she's got a T shirt on,
Speaker 1: the jeans, and then she takes her jeans off, and
Speaker 1: you know, he's taking he tells her to take her
Speaker 1: top off, so she takes her top off and he's
Speaker 1: taking you know, he's taking photos of her, and then
Speaker 1: they do like a sex act and then he sort
Speaker 1: of just put some money on this table, just really
Speaker 1: like non slantly, just put some money on the table,
Speaker 1: and then she just sort of while she's talking to him,
Speaker 1: sort of reaches her hand up, grabs the money, puts
Speaker 1: in her pocket. They talked for a few minutes and
Speaker 1: then he turns off the video when she goes into
Speaker 1: the bathroom and then that's that. So yeah, he was
Speaker 1: definitely paying some of the women. So he didn't videotape
Speaker 1: himself committing any of the murders? Did he? Now they
Speaker 1: can find They didn't find, but they found so most
Speaker 1: of the videos. Actually he wasn't in the videos. It
Speaker 1: was mostly women in the videos like doing you know,
Speaker 1: dancing for him or touching themselves or whatever the scenario was,
Speaker 1: and you could see his hand. But they only had
Speaker 1: like one or two videos where he actually was in it.
Speaker 1: So he was pretty he was smart. Where thee Where
Speaker 1: were the most of the women in the videos? Were
Speaker 1: they his victims? Or were they women who turned out
Speaker 1: to be found alive and well, well some of them
Speaker 1: like they did. They never identified the bulk of them,
Speaker 1: but they did find photos of They found a photo
Speaker 1: of Nittzure Washington, who was a survivor. They found a
Speaker 1: photo of Geneva Peters, who was his victim in January first,
Speaker 1: two thousand seven, the last known victim. And they also
Speaker 1: found the I d like a driver's license in a
Speaker 1: student identification of two women that went missing in two
Speaker 1: thousand five, I La Marshall and Rolina Morris. Both women
Speaker 1: went missing right near them. They were known to hang
Speaker 1: hang out around Franklin's house on around eighty one and Western,
Speaker 1: and they found their identification tucked in an envelope along
Speaker 1: with Genesia Peters photo in this mini fridge in his garage,
Speaker 1: But none of the video was of any of the
Speaker 1: women that were confirmed his victims. Is that correct? That's right? Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's right. Yeah, so um so. I one of the
Speaker 1: questions I wanted to ask you, and this relates to
Speaker 1: both Lonnie and the Daytona Beach serial killer. Is there
Speaker 1: hunting grounds is the term I'm going to use? And
Speaker 1: how far they roam from essentially their home base? Because
Speaker 1: not very far? Well Lonnie, Yeah, he didn't seem to
Speaker 1: go very far afield, which feels weird to me. I mean,
Speaker 1: he like like a mile or three? Is that about
Speaker 1: how far he roamed? I think the far farthest victim
Speaker 1: was about five miles away. But yeah, no, he he operated.
Speaker 1: He hunted in his own backyard, and that's like most
Speaker 1: serial killers do that. I mean they had back in
Speaker 1: the eighties and South Los Angeles there was um, you know,
Speaker 1: six serial killers operating at the same time, and they
Speaker 1: were able to identify all of them actually, and all
Speaker 1: of them lived in South Los Angeles. I mean, Chester
Speaker 1: Turner was one of the serial killers, and he hunted
Speaker 1: like literally within two blocks of where his mud where
Speaker 1: he lived with his mother. You know, they like familiar territory,
Speaker 1: you know, they don't want to be surprised. They want
Speaker 1: to know. Lonnie was a garbage man and he knew
Speaker 1: the alleyways like he knew the dumpsters of South Los
Speaker 1: Angeles because that's where he worked, right, So they want
Speaker 1: to have they want to feel comfortable. So that's why
Speaker 1: most serial killers actually operate, you know, in the same
Speaker 1: area where they dumped their bodies. I was always kind
Speaker 1: of wondering too if if one of the reasons they
Speaker 1: do it is they're just trying to clean up the neighborhood.
Speaker 1: What I'm saying, I mean, I don't mean that, I
Speaker 1: don't mean that in a harsh judgmental way, but I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, seriously, is that possibly a motivator for some
Speaker 1: of these guys that they're they don't really approve of
Speaker 1: that activity, and they'd like to see it sort of discouraged. Well,
Speaker 1: I mean obviously that was the case for Lonnie. I
Speaker 1: mean he considered I mean, it's obvious he considered the
Speaker 1: women brash, right, and so he dumped their bodies and
Speaker 1: trapped you know, so he considered them trash, you know.
Speaker 1: And his wife was there, yeah, and dumpsters, and his
Speaker 1: wife was very religious, so he maybe there was something
Speaker 1: for him. He you know, I think he had this
Speaker 1: like compulsion, you know. I think that he couldn't control himself.
Speaker 1: I mean, he had there was he was always after women.
Speaker 1: You know, he was like addicted to women. And I
Speaker 1: think that in his case, I think that, you know,
Speaker 1: you also had this deep seated hatred and you know
Speaker 1: where it came from. It's hard to say, because it
Speaker 1: seemed like he had a good relationship with his mother
Speaker 1: and his sister, you know, so it's hard to say
Speaker 1: exactly why how he ended up, you know, hating women
Speaker 1: so much, But you know, I think that's what he thought.
Speaker 1: I think he thought he was cleaning the streets. Yeah
Speaker 1: that's crazy. Okay, So let's back up a little bit,
Speaker 1: because I realized we haven't asked this question yet. Um,
Speaker 1: where did the name the grim Sleeper come from? Um?
Speaker 1: My editor and I made it up. Oh good one score. Now,
Speaker 1: well she was when we I mean when she um
Speaker 1: when I told her about the story. We're writing the story,
Speaker 1: and she actually she was like, you know, we have
Speaker 1: to name him. And I didn't want to name him.
Speaker 1: Actually I was like, no, I don't think that's right
Speaker 1: to do that, and she said, yes, I think you know,
Speaker 1: you should and everything like that. We just sided that
Speaker 1: it was a good idea just because you know, a
Speaker 1: lot of the serial killers out there, like Son of
Speaker 1: Sam and all these guys Zodiac. I mean I think
Speaker 1: that they're known because they were nicknamed, right, so everyone
Speaker 1: knows about them. And I wanted in this case. I
Speaker 1: didn't want this case to go away, you know, like
Speaker 1: all of sudden you get media attention and then the
Speaker 1: next day no one, nobody cares. And so our hope
Speaker 1: was that by nicknaming him, people would remember the name
Speaker 1: and they couldn't forget about the case. And so her
Speaker 1: and I started, you know, trying to go through different names,
Speaker 1: and she was like, Ripper van Winkle was one of
Speaker 1: the ones she was unaware night no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: as I was. And then I was like, what about
Speaker 1: grim Sleeper because of the break in the case. She
Speaker 1: was like yes, I'm like no, no, no, no, I
Speaker 1: was kidding. I hate that name. And she's like, no, no,
Speaker 1: we're calling him that's too bad. Bad? Exactly was it?
Speaker 1: I can't tell what you're done talking when you just
Speaker 1: dropped out because of the because the skype, hopefully you're
Speaker 1: hopefully you're done. I was gonna say, you should have
Speaker 1: named in the Tooth Fairy after the serial killer in
Speaker 1: Red Dragon. I don't know if you ever read that
Speaker 1: book or not, No, but I heard about him. Actually yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: but the tooth Fairy. What was great about that? As
Speaker 1: they called him the tooth Fairy and it really made
Speaker 1: the killer angry and then he sort of uh contacted
Speaker 1: the reporter, uh well in a kind of brewal way.
Speaker 1: So it's probably good that you didn't. Probably really what
Speaker 1: we're getting at um? So with Lonnie no um. Lonnie
Speaker 1: took what was it a fourteen year break? Is that correct? Well,
Speaker 1: I mean at first they thought it was a thirteen
Speaker 1: and a half year break, but then they lived. They
Speaker 1: found a victim in two thousands, so it was it
Speaker 1: was it was ten years now as opposed to like
Speaker 1: thirteen and a half, it might keep narrowing to I was.
Speaker 1: So that was my question is you know, we hear
Speaker 1: about stories like Lonnie where somebody is supposedly taken a break.
Speaker 1: Do you think that he actually took a break or
Speaker 1: do you think that it just happened to be that
Speaker 1: we haven't been able to draw the links from found
Speaker 1: victims to him. Are victims that weren't found that would
Speaker 1: be my guess. Well, the detectives definitely don't think that
Speaker 1: he took a break. Um. They think that because two
Speaker 1: of the victims, Bernita Sparks and Genesia Peters, were found
Speaker 1: in dumpsters by you know, homeless people looking for like
Speaker 1: recyclables and stuff like that, and so um, there was
Speaker 1: a good chance that they would have ended up in
Speaker 1: a landfill. So the detectives think that a lot of
Speaker 1: his victims ended up in landfills because they think like,
Speaker 1: he's known to have killed fifteen women, but they think
Speaker 1: it's probably closer to thirty. And that's some of the
Speaker 1: women you know are in landfill, you know landfills right now.
Speaker 1: So I don't know, like I think that. I mean,
Speaker 1: I know that there was a case in two thousand,
Speaker 1: so I mean his last known victim was in and
Speaker 1: then there was a case in two thousand. During the nineties,
Speaker 1: it was also a time when his kids would have
Speaker 1: been teenagers, you know, so you know who knows. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, maybe they were like, Dad, what are you
Speaker 1: doing leaving? The was at three o'clock in the morning,
Speaker 1: Like where are you going? Like I don't, you know,
Speaker 1: I don't know if there was something going on in
Speaker 1: his family life that you know, stopped him from doing it,
Speaker 1: because you know, like with for example, like Gary Ridgeway,
Speaker 1: the Green River killer, I mean, he would stop at
Speaker 1: times too, you know, when he was happy in his relationships,
Speaker 1: So I think sometimes he's like serial kill as they
Speaker 1: might stop if they're happy in their relationships. Like maybe
Speaker 1: you know, Lonnie was happy and you know with a
Speaker 1: girl he was dating. You know, who knows, But the
Speaker 1: cops don't don't actually think that he did. But you know,
Speaker 1: it's hard to tell, so I don't I'm not really sure,
Speaker 1: but he did, you know, he was definitely, I mean,
Speaker 1: there was a flurry right from then, all of a
Speaker 1: sudden there's not a lot going. But then again, in
Speaker 1: nine eight eight, they had a suspect, a sheriff deputy
Speaker 1: deputy named Ricky Ross, So maybe he decided to lay
Speaker 1: low because they were focused on this, you know, deputy.
Speaker 1: He's probably it's hard to say, probably hoping the deputy
Speaker 1: would like take the fall for you know, and that
Speaker 1: never wind up happening. Well, the deputy actually got arrested
Speaker 1: and charged with them like these three unrelated murders, but
Speaker 1: the detectives actually thought that he was responsible for the
Speaker 1: caliber murders because he admitted that he owned a twenty
Speaker 1: five caliber gun. But it ended up that the ballistics
Speaker 1: didn't match with this gun that they found in his
Speaker 1: car and the bullets that were pulled out of these
Speaker 1: three prostitutes that were killed around the same time and
Speaker 1: Netria was attacked, so they ended up dropping the case.
Speaker 1: But the detectives actually believed up until I talked to
Speaker 1: one of the detectives back in two thousand six, and
Speaker 1: he still believed it was Ricky Ross who was the deputy,
Speaker 1: you know, So I think that you know, Lonnie, for
Speaker 1: a while, they're probably thought that, you know, they were
Speaker 1: focused on somebody else, so he was gonna lay low
Speaker 1: and now Lonnie. Lonnie would eventually get caught because of
Speaker 1: familiar DNA. But did they ever find his gun, that
Speaker 1: that twenty five caliber that he was using on all
Speaker 1: these girls. I don't remember seeing anything that I've ever
Speaker 1: actually got found. Well, they didn't find the gun that
Speaker 1: he used um for the victims from up to eight.
Speaker 1: But when they searched his home, they found the gun
Speaker 1: that was used to kill Genesia Peters, the two thousand
Speaker 1: seven victim, and that gun was also used they found
Speaker 1: After like they arrested him and charged him with the
Speaker 1: ten murders, they ended up finding out that he was
Speaker 1: also responsible for this murder. Found out they found the
Speaker 1: gun and basically traced to Sharon Dismuke the bullet that
Speaker 1: was pulled out of her. So the gun that they
Speaker 1: found in one of the Genesia Peters. So they did
Speaker 1: find one of the guns, and they found a receipt
Speaker 1: for the gun they think was used to kill the
Speaker 1: other victims in the eighties, but they never found that gun.
Speaker 1: Okay Okay. Now, Also when I was doing the reading,
Speaker 1: I know that there's there's a lot of controversy around
Speaker 1: the use of familiar DNA and what what is what
Speaker 1: is the uproar about that? I personally don't get it. Well.
Speaker 1: I think that you know, a lot like a c
Speaker 1: l U and you know, civil liberty be organized nations
Speaker 1: and civil rights organizations. You know, they believe it's an
Speaker 1: invasion of privacy and they think that it unfairly targets minorities,
Speaker 1: you know, because there's more minorities like African American, Hispanics,
Speaker 1: et cetera, in prison, So they're saying that in fairly
Speaker 1: targets that population. Like England did a study many years
Speaker 1: ago and they found that like if you're for the
Speaker 1: familiar DNA because as you know, like Lonnie, they had
Speaker 1: his DNA, but Lonnie had never gone to prison, so
Speaker 1: he had never been swabbed. So that's why they didn't
Speaker 1: know who he was. But they knew he was matched
Speaker 1: to the victims in the eighties and the victims in
Speaker 1: the tooth and the two thousand's because of they found
Speaker 1: saliva on many of the women's breasts and so they
Speaker 1: knew he was, you know, there was one killer, but
Speaker 1: because he wasn't in any felon data bank, they couldn't
Speaker 1: find him. So that's why they decided to use that
Speaker 1: familiar DNA. And it was the first time actually in California,
Speaker 1: actually in the US, that they used familiar d in
Speaker 1: testing to find a serial killer. And they checked it
Speaker 1: in two thousand and eight. And how it goes with
Speaker 1: the familiar DNA, I mean, they had been UM England
Speaker 1: had been using it for many years. And basically they
Speaker 1: said that if you're a felon, there's at chance that
Speaker 1: you're going to have like a male relative, like a
Speaker 1: cousin and uncle, a brother, a father who's a felon.
Speaker 1: So if you're not in the data bank, there's a
Speaker 1: chance that you're gonna have a relative who's in the
Speaker 1: data bank and so and so that's why they did
Speaker 1: it in two thousand eight and it came back nothing.
Speaker 1: And then they did it two years later and the
Speaker 1: felone data bank had grown four hundred thousand, and so
Speaker 1: they did it again. And Lonnie's son Christopher had been
Speaker 1: charged with UM carrying a weapon and he pled guilty
Speaker 1: and as a result of his plea, he got swabbed
Speaker 1: and that was in two thousand nine, so he was
Speaker 1: in the system for she's just like close to a
Speaker 1: year you know, before they did that second d in
Speaker 1: a swab and it came back as a match to him,
Speaker 1: but he was They knew it wasn't him because he
Speaker 1: would have been about two years old when the murder started,
Speaker 1: so they knew he right, So they knew he had
Speaker 1: to be you know, he They knew he was related
Speaker 1: to the killer, and so they actually looked for any
Speaker 1: relative and there was an uncle, well, they thought there
Speaker 1: was an uncle in Rancho Cucamonga, but they ended up
Speaker 1: checking checking it out and finding that there was no relation.
Speaker 1: And then they found out that his father, Lonnie, lived
Speaker 1: like on eight one and Western, which was like at
Speaker 1: the epicenter of where all the murders took place. And
Speaker 1: so that's why they ended up you know, following you know, Lonnie.
Speaker 1: And after three days they got his DNA off a
Speaker 1: pizza slice. He went with his girlfriend to a pizza
Speaker 1: parlor and yeah, I read about that one of the articles. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm the LAPD cop. Impersonated waiter or something like that
Speaker 1: bus boy and went around and had like a bus
Speaker 1: band and half the stuff was Lonnie's and the other
Speaker 1: half was you know, just people at the table and
Speaker 1: it was like a kiddie's birthday party for kids, and
Speaker 1: kids are running around eating pizza. So the cop you know,
Speaker 1: just went and grabbed his dishes and they ended up
Speaker 1: they grabbed he had a plate with a piece of
Speaker 1: cake on it, and they ended up they were able
Speaker 1: to get the swab from a hardened piece of cheese
Speaker 1: from the pizza. Um, So did I hear you correctly? Um?
Speaker 1: Prefer to some psychics they were involved in this case. Well,
Speaker 1: I had when when the story broke into do I
Speaker 1: did another store? I did one in two thousand and six,
Speaker 1: and I did one in two thousand and eight, and
Speaker 1: that's when we nicknamed him the Grim Sleeper. So I
Speaker 1: ended up getting a lot of calls from people, and
Speaker 1: I want you know a few of them I got
Speaker 1: were from psychics. And one of them was this woman
Speaker 1: who believe that, you know, she knew who the killer
Speaker 1: was and he was killing women. He was a really
Speaker 1: good looking guy, and she said he was like a
Speaker 1: cross between what was his name? That what's his name?
Speaker 1: The tennis not the tennis player, you know. She said
Speaker 1: he was a cross between tiger Woods and I forget somebody.
Speaker 1: I forget who the other person was. She said he
Speaker 1: was a cross between and she said that, you know,
Speaker 1: he was a lawyer. His no, his wife didn't know
Speaker 1: I know. And I'm gonna have to look through my
Speaker 1: book to see what I what I wrote. For some reason,
Speaker 1: I can't remember. But yeah, so you know, I had
Speaker 1: a few people that did that. I had this one
Speaker 1: woman who contacted me and said that, you know, her house,
Speaker 1: she believed that her husband was a killer, but she
Speaker 1: didn't really have any good reason. Yeah, I think she
Speaker 1: just she just felt he was shady. Wasn't it something
Speaker 1: like that? Well, I mean, she just it was more
Speaker 1: like this gut feeling, she said. And she was like,
Speaker 1: I just want to make sure. And I said, well,
Speaker 1: just you know, touch to the police, and she's like no,
Speaker 1: when she was afraid that the police would basically, you know,
Speaker 1: like target him and whatever. And so she was like,
Speaker 1: if I get d N A, will you give it
Speaker 1: to the cops or test it. I'm like, well, we
Speaker 1: don't test DNA at the only weekly And I said,
Speaker 1: but I guess, And I said, I guess we could.
Speaker 1: I could give it to the police. And I just thought,
Speaker 1: you know, I was getting a lot of calls like
Speaker 1: you end up and I talked to so many people
Speaker 1: who I thought they were like, oh my god, it's
Speaker 1: so and so, and you're completely convinced. You're like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, it's got to be this person. And then
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, the next thing out of their
Speaker 1: mouth mouth is that, you know, the FBI is tapping
Speaker 1: their phone and the CIA is knocking on their door,
Speaker 1: and you're like, oh my god, said you had me
Speaker 1: for you know, so this woman, I didn't think i'd
Speaker 1: get a call back. And then and she called called
Speaker 1: me back and she was like, can we, you know,
Speaker 1: meet up? You know I have his you know d
Speaker 1: n A. And so I ended up meeting up with
Speaker 1: her and she told me she passed me it was
Speaker 1: like a not a like a Jason Bourne thing, and
Speaker 1: she's I met her on a bench near work and
Speaker 1: she sat down next to me and passed me in
Speaker 1: this bag and in there she was like, it's a
Speaker 1: cop and inside there's like the napkin. And she said
Speaker 1: it was a napkin and she said it were Simon
Speaker 1: on it. And I was like, oh my god. I
Speaker 1: thought it was supposed to be like a saliva sample
Speaker 1: and she's like no. I was like, oh no, And
Speaker 1: So I ended up calling the detective who was the
Speaker 1: main detective on the case, and I said, this is
Speaker 1: what I have, and all of a sudden there was
Speaker 1: a complete silence on the line and I'm like, one
Speaker 1: of my it was like a hundred degrees in l A.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, what do you want me to do?
Speaker 1: Can I drop it off? He's like, I'm out of town.
Speaker 1: He's like, put it in your fridge. I'll and I'll
Speaker 1: you know, to the l A. P D the next
Speaker 1: morning or whatever. I'm like, put in my fridge. He's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I put it next year like veggies. And I'm like,
Speaker 1: oh my god. So I ended up putting it in
Speaker 1: the US. Was it at least like sealed at the
Speaker 1: ziplock bag? I hope? So it didn't stick up the
Speaker 1: your fridge. No, there wasn't any ziplock bag. Um. One
Speaker 1: of the things that I so I was wondering about
Speaker 1: is I noticed a lot of the girls, at least
Speaker 1: in the neighborhoods in the writing, they're referred to as strawberries.
Speaker 1: What is that and where exactly does that come from?
Speaker 1: Do you know, well, I know, like I know that
Speaker 1: it was a police term term used in the eighties
Speaker 1: and it was basically women, you know, who exchanged sex
Speaker 1: for drugs. But I don't know why how they got
Speaker 1: strawberry out of it, Like I just know that's what
Speaker 1: the term means, but I don't know why, Like who
Speaker 1: came up with strawberry? Okay, I was just curious if
Speaker 1: it just it struck me as a bit strange. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So let's talk a little bit about the task force
Speaker 1: that was formed in the two thousands that eventually would
Speaker 1: help catch Lonnie. Normally, task force are created by police
Speaker 1: departments and they stir up a lot of dust and
Speaker 1: then nothing seems to really come from it. Why was
Speaker 1: this particular task force, the eight hundred task force, you
Speaker 1: think so successful at what what they did? Well? I
Speaker 1: think they were success. I mean, at the end of
Speaker 1: the day, they were success. I mean the detective who
Speaker 1: is the supervisor in the case, he told me from
Speaker 1: the very beginning that the case was going to be
Speaker 1: solved through DNA. I these guys bent over backwards. You know,
Speaker 1: there was like seven or eight you know, task force members,
Speaker 1: and they bent over backwards. I mean they went through
Speaker 1: the murder books again. You know, they literally followed hundreds
Speaker 1: of people are you know, around like witnesses from the eighties,
Speaker 1: and you know, they were getting like hundreds of calls themselves,
Speaker 1: like thousands of calls, and they were following people around
Speaker 1: like obtaining you know, DNA swabs and things like that.
Speaker 1: Like they actually went to Georgia. There was one um
Speaker 1: they thought that there was a minister that might be involved,
Speaker 1: and so they actually flew to Georgia and he was
Speaker 1: in a crypt and they actually opened up the crypt
Speaker 1: and got a DNA sample, you know, because they were
Speaker 1: it was mostly about getting d N a right, you know,
Speaker 1: because it's like this case was like trying you know,
Speaker 1: it's trying to find a needle in a haystack. I
Speaker 1: mean how difficult. You know, it's a body dump left there,
Speaker 1: you know, back in the eighties and even two thousand
Speaker 1: to two thousand three, two thousand seven, I mean, no witnesses.
Speaker 1: You know, the bodies were dumped, They were killed somewhere
Speaker 1: else and dumped in the alley. I mean it was
Speaker 1: a miracle that they actually were able to find him
Speaker 1: and so soon too. I mean a lot of the case.
Speaker 1: Look at what happened with the Green River killer. It
Speaker 1: was like twenty something years before they finally caught him.
Speaker 1: Same with B t K. I remember, yeah too. I was.
Speaker 1: I was around for living in the area, and a
Speaker 1: lot of people were very angry after all those years
Speaker 1: and they still hadn't caught the guy. And it's just
Speaker 1: like you said, though you're looking for a needle in
Speaker 1: a haystack, it's expecting a lot, really, and it's really
Speaker 1: lucky that guy's kid got busted the year before they
Speaker 1: were nabbed him. Well, I don't think they ever if
Speaker 1: if it wasn't for that familiar DNA and that his son,
Speaker 1: I said, I don't think they ever would have caught
Speaker 1: I think it was just too difficult, you know, it
Speaker 1: was just it was just too hard. They were really
Speaker 1: they were really lucky. I think they were pretty shocked themselves. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm sure that that was, you know, somebody delivering the
Speaker 1: golden goose. Well, and all these guys, a lot of
Speaker 1: them were retiring, so this was like their last big case, right,
Speaker 1: So this was kind of, uh, the big case of
Speaker 1: their career, and to be able to solve it, you know,
Speaker 1: it was just what a great way to retire, right
Speaker 1: on that note, That's pretty awesome. Yeah, absolutely, so you
Speaker 1: knew these guys. Did they have a big party when
Speaker 1: the whole thing was over. Um, well, they probably did,
Speaker 1: but they didn't invite me. Yeah. Now, I actually I
Speaker 1: did go to Uh I did you know? At first
Speaker 1: my relationship with them, it wasn't very good. But I
Speaker 1: think as the time went by, you know, like I've
Speaker 1: called them up and you know, give them you know,
Speaker 1: this person called me, did you check them out? And
Speaker 1: they'd be like, yeah, yeah, we already checked that person
Speaker 1: out or whatever. So I, you know, and they'd have
Speaker 1: you know, no police press conferences all the time, and
Speaker 1: I'd go there and you know, talk to them. So
Speaker 1: I think they'd begrudgingly, we're okay with me. And then
Speaker 1: so when they retired, I was invited to um two
Speaker 1: of the two of the detectives retirement party. So I
Speaker 1: thought that was pretty good. And I'm still in contact
Speaker 1: with a couple of the detectives. Still nice. That very cool. Yeah,
Speaker 1: UM asked any other questions? Uh, so, well, you're you're
Speaker 1: with people now, You're not in the l A beat
Speaker 1: so much anymore. So I'm just gonna ask, just by chance,
Speaker 1: are you following any serial active serial killers right now? Well? Not. Well,
Speaker 1: I'm working on a case actually, um, well, not working out.
Speaker 1: But there's a guy, there's another serial killer, but he
Speaker 1: was he's in jail right now pending trial. And he
Speaker 1: was a serial killer who murdered one of m well,
Speaker 1: there was a girl that was dating actually Ashton Kutcher
Speaker 1: at the time, back in two thousand and one one.
Speaker 1: And he lived in Chicago and killed allegedly killed a
Speaker 1: young girl there and then moved to Los Angeles and
Speaker 1: then killed three women here. And so he's sitting on
Speaker 1: in County jail waiting for his trial, which is probably
Speaker 1: gonna come in November. But I'm not There's a few cases,
Speaker 1: like the Long Island serial killer. That's one that I've
Speaker 1: done a lot of work on, you know, that one
Speaker 1: that's not in l A. I do a lot of
Speaker 1: l A cases, But I don't there's one, actually, there
Speaker 1: is one case, but it's not the case. It's um
Speaker 1: this case called the Teardrop Rapist. And there's this rapist
Speaker 1: who had been raping women like Hispanic women, and he's
Speaker 1: also Hispanic himself, and he had been raping women since
Speaker 1: the eighties, almost as prolific as Lonnie Franklin. He's he well,
Speaker 1: he raped over fifty women from like the late eighties,
Speaker 1: and they still haven't caught him, and they've tried familiar
Speaker 1: DNA testing and everything, and he's still on the loose
Speaker 1: and his last victim was a couple of years ago.
Speaker 1: He sorry, there was a pause there. We were all
Speaker 1: just kind of yeah, I don't like to think about that.
Speaker 1: I just keep hoping that that guy is going to
Speaker 1: run into somebody who's got a big old knife or
Speaker 1: a gun, honor. That would just end the whole thing
Speaker 1: that'd become of nice, that act. Well, he was just sorry,
Speaker 1: go ahead. Oh, I was just gonna say, I've actually
Speaker 1: just recently read us an article I can't remember where
Speaker 1: this woman was, of some guy who met a woman
Speaker 1: through some website and he came over. It was very
Speaker 1: obvious that he intended to to end her life, and
Speaker 1: she turned the tables on him, and you know, he's
Speaker 1: dead in the ground and they can't figure out. I
Speaker 1: can't remember who his name is now was I just
Speaker 1: read it the other day and they she took him
Speaker 1: out and they were like, oh, yeah, I know. He
Speaker 1: had shovels, he had stuff he was he was going
Speaker 1: to remove your body. It so it sometimes that happens, Joe,
Speaker 1: I know it says. It warms my heart to hear
Speaker 1: about it too. What they call the hero Hooker or
Speaker 1: something like that. It was really the name Wasn't Wasn't.
Speaker 1: I heard about that case too. I think it was
Speaker 1: back east right maybe around Cleveland or somewhere. And the
Speaker 1: girl he came over to her house and he jumped
Speaker 1: here and she had I forget what she had, and
Speaker 1: she just beat him, you know, beat him to a pulp.
Speaker 1: And then they end up finding all this in the
Speaker 1: back of his trunk. He had all this, you know,
Speaker 1: like ropes and all this other stuff. And then they
Speaker 1: they found out that he was responsible for like three
Speaker 1: or four other murders. Yeah, and they couldn't figure out
Speaker 1: how he was funding his cross country tour of killing
Speaker 1: because he just he was like a night security guard
Speaker 1: or something like that. I it's the details are pretty
Speaker 1: soft at this point in my brain, but that's pretty awesome.
Speaker 1: So ahead, And I was gonna say last question about California,
Speaker 1: since you're still living there. My this is really off
Speaker 1: serial killers, but they're kind of been my serial killer
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame, which would be Leonard Lake and Charles
Speaker 1: NG and I know Charles in the last I heard
Speaker 1: is on death row in California? Is he's still on
Speaker 1: death row? They finally together because he was sentencing and
Speaker 1: last I heard, he's still alive. Do you know if
Speaker 1: they finally knocked him off or not? You know what,
Speaker 1: I'm not sure, but I believe he's still on death row.
Speaker 1: A really sounds like a simple Google search. Joe, Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: I suppose that. Well. I I'm not near a computer
Speaker 1: right now except the one that we're using to talk
Speaker 1: to talk to her, so I can't really do it.
Speaker 1: I didn't occur to. He tells us, now, what's going
Speaker 1: on with Charles, saying, wonder if he's dead yet? Probably not.
Speaker 1: I don't think so. I don't think he is. Okay, Christine,
Speaker 1: you know we we've been remissing this so far, and
Speaker 1: I'll make sure that this is in the beginning of
Speaker 1: the everything when we release. But I forgot to ask
Speaker 1: to make sure that we had given the full title
Speaker 1: of the name of your book, So can you share
Speaker 1: that with everybody real fast? Oh? Sure? It's The Grim
Speaker 1: Sleep for the Lost Women of South Central And is
Speaker 1: this your first book you've written? Others, Oh, it is okay, know,
Speaker 1: my first and probably the only book. Congratulations, that's a
Speaker 1: great accomplishment. I've been wanting to write a book for
Speaker 1: a long time now. I still haven't quite achieved it.
Speaker 1: I haven't even written the first page. How was the experience.
Speaker 1: I just thought in this case, it was just if
Speaker 1: the detectives weren't going to write the story, or the
Speaker 1: prosecutors or you know, my members of you know, of
Speaker 1: the victims, that they weren't going to do it. I
Speaker 1: just thought thought that I was the you know, since
Speaker 1: I had been you know, and I just and I
Speaker 1: kept you know, I had all my notes, and I
Speaker 1: knew everybody involved, so if anyone was going to write
Speaker 1: it, and and I just felt like I should, you know,
Speaker 1: And if I was ever going to write a book,
Speaker 1: I thought to myself, this is the book that I
Speaker 1: should write because this is the one I know so well.
Speaker 1: I know everybody involved, I know the case. That's why
Speaker 1: I decided. I mean, the hurdles they came up, and
Speaker 1: the gaps and everything. I kept reading it. I I really,
Speaker 1: I will admit there was a couple of times I thought,
Speaker 1: maybe you took a little bit of artistic license. Until
Speaker 1: I figured out I was like, no, this only crap
Speaker 1: is really happening. Well, I just think that like this
Speaker 1: case in particular, I just thought that it was a
Speaker 1: case that people should know about because I know, you know,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of cases out there that got a
Speaker 1: lot more attention, and I felt like there wasn't enough
Speaker 1: attention to this case and to the victims, and so
Speaker 1: I just really wanted to make people aware of, you know,
Speaker 1: who who the victims were, and you know, they mattered,
Speaker 1: their families mattered, you know, said to me, it was
Speaker 1: like important for that to get out there because you know,
Speaker 1: as you know, you know, you guys do a lot
Speaker 1: of crime. There's a lot of stories that you never
Speaker 1: hear about, you know, and they're just as important as
Speaker 1: every other story, you know. So I just wanted this,
Speaker 1: you know, I wanted people to know who you know,
Speaker 1: Deborah was, and Henrietta and Bernida and Genetia, you know,
Speaker 1: all his victims. So absolutely that's why I did it. Well,
Speaker 1: that's that's great, I mean we did. We tend to
Speaker 1: like the smaller, lesser known mysteries for that reason, because
Speaker 1: everybody could talk about Ted Bundy every day, but everybody
Speaker 1: really knows that story. Yeah, everybody talks about John Bone
Speaker 1: and we're like, we're not We're not going to do that.
Speaker 1: There's so many other more interesting cases that we could find,
Speaker 1: you know, and do more justice too. Yeah, and they
Speaker 1: just never get the attention. So, you know, this guy
Speaker 1: was like the most prolific serial killer you know in
Speaker 1: like Los Angeles history, you know, and they should people
Speaker 1: should know about it. People should know about the victims
Speaker 1: and who they were, and you know what happened, and
Speaker 1: you know, and it's just it's just a really interesting
Speaker 1: story as well, you know, just from the very beginning.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, him being in the military and
Speaker 1: just you know, all the way through. So you know,
Speaker 1: I think it's you know, I just think it's a
Speaker 1: compelling tale that people should read well and and for
Speaker 1: everybody who wants to pick up a copy and and
Speaker 1: read the tale. Where are where can people find enemy?
Speaker 1: Is it an e book? Is it at certain retailers? Oh? Yeah,
Speaker 1: you could get it. It's a new release at Barnes
Speaker 1: and Noble. Um, you could get it at any bookstore
Speaker 1: pretty much. You can get it online and Amazon. You
Speaker 1: could go to my website. Christine pelisak dot com and
Speaker 1: there's a linked to Amazon where you could you could
Speaker 1: get it on Amazon. Um, if you're in Canada, you
Speaker 1: could get it on Amazon dot c A or Indigo
Speaker 1: dot c A. I was just in Canada and I'm Canadian.
Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying that I was wondering if you like,
Speaker 1: you know, it sounds slightly Canadian. Yeah, you say a
Speaker 1: lot constantly, so yeah, I think you could pretty much
Speaker 1: get it most places. Okay, well we are weird. We've
Speaker 1: decimated this question and list that I have in front
Speaker 1: of me was more than decimated. Yeah, we decimated. We
Speaker 1: would only have executed one out of ten. I have
Speaker 1: to keep reminding people about that. Um So, is there
Speaker 1: any any last bits that you'd like to to bring
Speaker 1: up for folks to know about the case or the
Speaker 1: book or anything like that before we wrap everything up. No,
Speaker 1: I don't think so, I think, I you know, I don't.
Speaker 1: I can't recall anything else. I just think that people,
Speaker 1: I think. I just think it's an interesting story that
Speaker 1: people should everyone should you know, know all about it?
Speaker 1: We agree, Yeah, definitely, Well it is. It has been
Speaker 1: a lot of fun to get to chat with you again.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for taking the time to talk
Speaker 1: to us today. Yeah, well, thank you very much. I
Speaker 1: had a lot of fun and I hope it made sense,
Speaker 1: but you totally did. Uh, you know, and tell best
Speaker 1: of luck with salesview book. I hope it's a runaway
Speaker 1: best seller and I can picture it now with Tom
Speaker 1: Cruise is a handsome police detective and Denzel Washington is
Speaker 1: a serial killer. And so we'll see and we'll see
Speaker 1: what happens. You never know. Well, I'll keep our fingers
Speaker 1: crossed for you. Yeah, and whoever you want to play you?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, good point. Yes, I was thinking Charlie's theo on. Okay,
Speaker 1: thank you again, and you have a good evening. Yeah,
Speaker 1: thank you guys very much. I really appreciate it. Nice
Speaker 1: talk chatting with you guys. By right, we'll see you
Speaker 1: next time.