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Speaker 1: Thinking sideways. OK, I'll broke the ideas. I don't know

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Speaker 1: stories of things. We simply doom. None of the answa too. Hey, everybody.

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Speaker 1: As you know from yesterday's episode about the Daytona Beach

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Speaker 1: serial killer, we got a chance to speak with reporter

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Speaker 1: Christine Palisac about Lonnie Franklin Jr. A k a. The

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Speaker 1: Grim Sleeper, and Christine recently published her book The Grim

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Speaker 1: Sleeper The Lost Women of South Central which sells the

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Speaker 1: story of serial killer Lonnie David Franklin, Jr. Who killed

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Speaker 1: believe it's believed between thirteen to plus women between the

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Speaker 1: years of and two thousand seven. The book is available

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Speaker 1: at most e book and brick and mortar book retailers,

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Speaker 1: and if you want, you can go to Christine's website

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Speaker 1: Christine palisc dot com at c h R I S

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Speaker 1: T I N E P E L I s e

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Speaker 1: K dot com. You're read an overview of the book,

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Speaker 1: and she's also got a direct link on there to

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Speaker 1: Amazon if you want to purchase it yourself. It's a

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Speaker 1: great read. I enjoyed it and I'd recommend that you

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Speaker 1: pick up a copy. But any who, As usual, we

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Speaker 1: like to share these interviews with you typically, since so

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Speaker 1: much of the conversation doesn't make it into the episode.

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Speaker 1: One quick thing. Bear in mind that we talked over Skype,

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Speaker 1: so you may hear some odd bits of audio from

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Speaker 1: time to time. We've corrected as much as we could,

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Speaker 1: but we hope you enjoy hearing the conversation with Christine

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Speaker 1: as much as we enjoyed having it. Let's roll that

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Speaker 1: interview if you don't mind, can you introduce yourself to

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Speaker 1: all of our listeners. Sure, my name is Christine Palasac.

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Speaker 1: I'm a senior writer with People Magazine, and I'm the

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Speaker 1: author of The Grim Sleeper And just you know, in

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Speaker 1: in as much detailer as little detail as you want,

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Speaker 1: can you kind of give us an overview of the

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Speaker 1: Grim Sleeper case. Sure. The Grim Sleeper case pretty much

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Speaker 1: started in in the nineteen eighties and South Los Angeles. Um.

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Speaker 1: He was a serial killer active. He started in ninety

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Speaker 1: five and he killed seven women from and Uh. He

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Speaker 1: had a survivor who survived in November, and then he

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Speaker 1: possibly took a thirteen and a half year break and

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Speaker 1: then resumed killing again in two thousand two, and then

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Speaker 1: two thousand three and two thousand seven, and he was

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Speaker 1: finally caught in two thousand and ten through familial DNA testing,

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Speaker 1: and he was uh the longest operating serial killer west

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Speaker 1: of the mississipp be He was one of the most

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Speaker 1: prolific serial killers in Los Angeles history. His His main

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Speaker 1: targets were poor, young black women. Most of them had

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Speaker 1: drug addictions, UM, a few of them had prostitution arrests. Um.

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Speaker 1: He shot them in the chest with the caliber. The

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Speaker 1: bulk of his victims and his later victims, he strangled

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Speaker 1: a few of them. And the women you know, basically

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Speaker 1: ranged an age from fifteen to thirty five. One of

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Speaker 1: the things I was I'm kind of curious about and

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Speaker 1: I Steve gave me a copy of your book to read,

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Speaker 1: and I haven't been able to start it yet, but

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Speaker 1: I did read some of your articles in l A

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Speaker 1: Weekly about him. Now I just lost my question. Well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: but did he ever confess to any of these things?

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Speaker 1: Did he ever own up to it? And did he

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Speaker 1: ever confess to any others outside the eleven killings that

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Speaker 1: he did? I think it doesn't sound like you. No, No,

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Speaker 1: he never confessed, not even to the ones that he

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Speaker 1: was convicted for. No, No, not at all, he didn't,

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Speaker 1: and I know that some of you know, the police

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Speaker 1: actually listened to his conversations he had with some family

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Speaker 1: members and you know, he denied having, you know, anything

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Speaker 1: to do with the crime. Times. You know, he denied

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Speaker 1: that he made excuse. They found a lot of photos

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Speaker 1: in his home. After he was arrested, they went and

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Speaker 1: they did a three day search. Well actually they found

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Speaker 1: more than that. They found. They found like dozens and

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Speaker 1: dozens of videotape as well as photos, and they actually

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Speaker 1: weaned them down because some of them were duplicates, so

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Speaker 1: they weaned it down to a hundred and eighty. But

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Speaker 1: they found like, you know, way more photos. And so

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Speaker 1: when they did the search in his house, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: family members and friends you know, asked him, like what

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Speaker 1: about these photos, and he basically said that because he

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Speaker 1: was a car mechanic, he led, he said, he told

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Speaker 1: them that basically the photos were left you know, in cars,

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Speaker 1: and he just happened to have them. And that's why,

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Speaker 1: like he didn't admit that he was taking photos, even

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Speaker 1: though he definitely had a bunch of cameras and things

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Speaker 1: like that. So now he didn't admit anything, I mean,

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Speaker 1: all he admitted to his friends was that he's a philanderer.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he admitted that he had a lot of

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Speaker 1: girl friends. He bragged about having numerous girl friends. I mean,

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Speaker 1: he was married at the time when he was caught.

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Speaker 1: He had been married for thirty two years. He was

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Speaker 1: a grandfather, and but he told some of his friends that,

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Speaker 1: you know, he had a number of girl friends over

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Speaker 1: the years. And then he also picked up girls on

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Speaker 1: the streets, and you know, he had nicknames for them

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Speaker 1: and stuff like that. So he was he was quite

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Speaker 1: a bragger when it came to, you know, his love life.

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Speaker 1: Besides you know, the murders. Of course, he didn't talk

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Speaker 1: about those. What what drew you to this case? I mean,

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Speaker 1: and what and at what point did you kind of

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Speaker 1: decide to really invest as much time and energy into

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Speaker 1: it as you did. I mean, I personally would have

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Speaker 1: a really hard time with the case like this. Well,

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Speaker 1: I mean it just kind of fell in my lap really.

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Speaker 1: I mean I found out about it through the corner's office.

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Speaker 1: I used to go over to the corners office all

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Speaker 1: the time, and I talked to the corner there and

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Speaker 1: asked him, uh, you know, if there was any cases

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Speaker 1: over the weekend, you know that I should write about.

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Speaker 1: And one of the times I was over there, he

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Speaker 1: basically said that the Corner's Office had started the Serial

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Speaker 1: Killer Task Force to look into these body dumps, which

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Speaker 1: were you know, basically women that were found dead around

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Speaker 1: South Los Angeles and all actually all over l A County.

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Speaker 1: And some of the women were found in parks, some

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Speaker 1: of them in you know, field some of them in

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Speaker 1: alley ways, some of them in garbage dumpsters. And they

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Speaker 1: found thirty eight women in between two thousand two and

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Speaker 1: two thousand six, and so the Coroner's office decided to

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Speaker 1: look into it to see if there was any you know,

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Speaker 1: links if there was a serial killer, and I mean

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Speaker 1: they tried talking to the police, and a lot of

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Speaker 1: the police were just say, mind your own business. You're

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Speaker 1: the corner you know, you don't need to worry about

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Speaker 1: you know, homicides things like that. And so he actually

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Speaker 1: told me how they were looking into this, and so

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Speaker 1: I asked him, you know, how it was going, and

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Speaker 1: he said that, you know, they were overwhelmed by so

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Speaker 1: many a case bees. I mean, at the Corners Office,

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Speaker 1: they have like, you know, ten to thirty cases a day,

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Speaker 1: you know, so they were all the investigators were really

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Speaker 1: busy and they didn't have time to look into these cases.

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Speaker 1: And so I kept bothering them about it, just asking.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, what's the progress, you know, if you found anything,

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Speaker 1: and he said, you know, they really hadn't been able

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Speaker 1: to start looking at it. And so I was like,

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Speaker 1: let me look at it, you know, let me, I'll

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Speaker 1: look you know, look into it. And he was like no.

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Speaker 1: And but finally, after a few months, he actually gave

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Speaker 1: me the list of thirty eight women. And so at

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Speaker 1: that point, you know, I didn't know anything, and you know,

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Speaker 1: so I just started calling all the law enforcement agencies

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Speaker 1: because the women were found all over l A County.

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Speaker 1: So there was like Downey Police, you know, l A

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Speaker 1: p D. L A County law enforcement agencies that had

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Speaker 1: some of these cases. And so I started calling them

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Speaker 1: all to see if there was any connection, if they

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Speaker 1: thought there was any connection, if any of the cases

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Speaker 1: had been solved. And I mean in some of the cases,

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Speaker 1: I mean, they had a case where a woman was

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Speaker 1: found burned to death in a car and it turned

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Speaker 1: out that she was with a john and she had

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Speaker 1: died of an overdose and he didn't want to take

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Speaker 1: her to the hospital or anything. So he actually started

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Speaker 1: the car on fire and tried to burn her because

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Speaker 1: he was hoping that his DNA wouldn't be left on her,

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Speaker 1: you know. So yeah, no, And so there was other case.

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Speaker 1: Actually a couple of the cases were like natural causes

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Speaker 1: and you know, things like that, and some of them

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Speaker 1: were you know, the boyfriend killed the woman, you know

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Speaker 1: sort of thing. But as I was going along, I

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Speaker 1: got to the thirty seventh case, and it was Princess

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Speaker 1: Birth of Mew and she was a fifteen year old

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Speaker 1: runaway from Inglewood, which is kind of next to Los

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Speaker 1: Angeles in l A County. And uh, I ended up

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Speaker 1: finally talking to the Englewood detective that was working on

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Speaker 1: the case, and he told me that her case, which

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Speaker 1: was in two thousand and two, was linked to a

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Speaker 1: case in two thousand and three and that was an

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Speaker 1: l A. P D case, and those two cases were

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Speaker 1: linked to a series of twenty five caliber murderers back

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Speaker 1: in the eighties. And so he was the one who

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Speaker 1: actually told me about this link, and then I found it.

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Speaker 1: I ended up writing a story about it. But you know,

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Speaker 1: like the police basically didn't tell anyone in the community,

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Speaker 1: like no one knew, like none of the family members knew.

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Speaker 1: I mean I was sort of the first one. Well,

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Speaker 1: I was the first one to tell some of the

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Speaker 1: family members that their daughters had been killed by a

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Speaker 1: serial killer. And so I ended up just I kept

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Speaker 1: looking into it, and then basically about a year later, um,

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Speaker 1: I found out that the killer had struck again in

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Speaker 1: two thousand and seven, and at that point the L A. P.

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Speaker 1: D Um decided to like admit, you know, that there

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Speaker 1: was a serial killer out there, and then they ended

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Speaker 1: up they had a task force going and the city

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Speaker 1: council put a five thousand dollar reward looking for information.

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Speaker 1: And I don't know, I mean, I was just it

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Speaker 1: was something that I fascinated with and I was hoping

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Speaker 1: that they would, you know, catch the guy. And I

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Speaker 1: mean one of the victims, her and I would drive

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Speaker 1: around the neighborhoods together, you know, trying to find the

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Speaker 1: house because there was one survivor. And he picked her

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Speaker 1: up at a liquor store and then told older she

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Speaker 1: was going to a party. He said he was going

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Speaker 1: a driver to the party, but instead he stopped at

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Speaker 1: He said it was his uncle's house. But the police

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Speaker 1: believe he went into the house, got a gun, went

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Speaker 1: out and shot her about two minutes later, and she

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Speaker 1: actually was able to back. She took the detectives back

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Speaker 1: to this house, which was owned by a guy named

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Speaker 1: Othis White, and it turned out that it was three

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Speaker 1: doors down from where Lonnie Franklin, the killer lived, And

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Speaker 1: so her and I on a number of occasions, like

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Speaker 1: drove around the streets looking for the houses, you know,

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Speaker 1: the house, and so, you know, on a number of

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Speaker 1: occasions we did that and she was like, there's definitely

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Speaker 1: it was a side door and it was white. And

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Speaker 1: you know, there's like a zillion houses set you know,

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Speaker 1: have an entrance to the side and that are white. So,

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Speaker 1: you know, we went around and we did some interviewing

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Speaker 1: together as well as I tried to find out my

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Speaker 1: own stuff. And I got a lot of people contacting me,

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Speaker 1: like psychics, and I had a few people that believed

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Speaker 1: that their friend or their husband were the killer, and

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Speaker 1: I ended up getting like DNA from them to take

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Speaker 1: it to the you know, to take to the police.

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Speaker 1: So it was kind of crazy at times. Yeah. Now,

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Speaker 1: now the victim that you were just talking about, that's

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Speaker 1: miss Washington, correct Washington. Yeah, yeah, okay, she's she was

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Speaker 1: the the sole survivor. And that was what year was

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Speaker 1: that that attempt made? That was the eighties, right, it

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Speaker 1: was it was novemb okay, you know, So that that

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Speaker 1: does lead us into another question. You know, she's the

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Speaker 1: only surviving witness. But what I've always wondered about when

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Speaker 1: I was reading about Lonnie, and of course then you

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Speaker 1: know the other serial killer cases is and this is

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Speaker 1: just your opinion, it's really what I'm after here, but

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Speaker 1: how is it that nobody saw him? Like, there was

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Speaker 1: no witnesses to what he was doing? Well? Um, and

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Speaker 1: it ended up that, I mean, he had his trial

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Speaker 1: last year, already got convicted, and during the death penalty,

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Speaker 1: another woman came forward and said that she was also

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Speaker 1: a victim of his. So there's actually possibly two survivors.

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Speaker 1: And she actually said that she was um at a

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Speaker 1: bus stop and it was about ten o'clock because a

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Speaker 1: lot of the victims, like a ny Tria, it was

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Speaker 1: late at night. With this woman, Laura More, it was

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Speaker 1: late at night. She was at a bus stop. He

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Speaker 1: drives up, you know, he drove up to both of

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Speaker 1: them and just said, hey, you know, could I give

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Speaker 1: you a ride and be Tria actually talked to him

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Speaker 1: for a few minutes before she got into the car,

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Speaker 1: and Laura Moore actually turned him down, and he just

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Speaker 1: kept going around and going around until finally she got

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Speaker 1: in the car with them, and then he takes them

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Speaker 1: right to an alley. And I mean a lot of

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Speaker 1: the victims, you know, were picked up late at night,

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Speaker 1: and I think that's why there wasn't any witnesses. I mean,

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Speaker 1: there was one witness, alleged witness actually for the Bernida Sparks.

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Speaker 1: She was one of the victims. And one woman said

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Speaker 1: she thought that she saw BERNIEA. Sparks that night getting

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Speaker 1: into the car with somebody, but you know, a lot

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Speaker 1: of them was I think the only reason. I think

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Speaker 1: a lot of it was that it was late at

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Speaker 1: night and there wasn't a lot of people out on

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Speaker 1: the street. Eat. I think that's why. And I mean

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Speaker 1: he and also too, I mean, he knew what he

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Speaker 1: was doing, so you know, he's going to be stealthy, right,

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Speaker 1: He's not going to do it when there's a hundred

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Speaker 1: people around. You know, He's going to make sure it's

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Speaker 1: late at night. And I mean when the police were

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Speaker 1: following him around, you know, after they got the familiar

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Speaker 1: DNA from the sun the match with the Sun. They

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Speaker 1: followed him around and he left his home one night

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Speaker 1: at like three o'clock in the morning, and he went

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Speaker 1: to forty second and Western, which was like kind of

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Speaker 1: a popular prostitution hanging out and there was two girls

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Speaker 1: standing on the street and it was really secluded in

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Speaker 1: the detectives there was this undercover cop following him, and

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Speaker 1: he made a point to say to the detectives, He's like,

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Speaker 1: I'm afraid that he's going to find out that I'm

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Speaker 1: following him because there was like literally no one on

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Speaker 1: the street. So he picks times when there's not a

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Speaker 1: lot of people around, you know, that's why I think

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Speaker 1: there's no witnesses. And then he brings them to alley

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Speaker 1: ways and not a lot of people hanging out in

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Speaker 1: the alleyways at four o'clock in the morning. Do you

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Speaker 1: think their line of work had something to do with

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Speaker 1: the lack of witnesses as well? That may be. You know,

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Speaker 1: people that were around were other other you know, women

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Speaker 1: who were prostitutes or whatever, and weren't paying so much

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Speaker 1: attention to the fact that you might just get in

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Speaker 1: a car with a John Well, I think it was.

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Speaker 1: I mean, some of the girls definitely had prostitution records,

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Speaker 1: but I mean some of them, like I mean Deborah Jackson,

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Speaker 1: she was gay and she was just taking a bus,

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Speaker 1: you know, to her home, like where she was living.

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Speaker 1: So how he came across her, It's it's hard to say.

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Speaker 1: I mean, Laura Moore was picked up at a bus stop,

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Speaker 1: you know, in Natria, was at a liquor store, you know.

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Speaker 1: So it's hard to say whether any of the girls

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Speaker 1: were like on a stroll because a lot of the girls,

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Speaker 1: like you have to remember back then it was like

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Speaker 1: the crack cocaine era, and so there weren't a lot

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Speaker 1: of the girls weren't like technically prostitutes. Like they walk up,

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Speaker 1: you know, down the streets. Some guy would pull up

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Speaker 1: and he'd be like, hey, do you want to smoke

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Speaker 1: some crack? And you know, the girls were so dope,

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Speaker 1: doped up, They're like sure, and they just jumped in

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Speaker 1: the car and they need to drive off. It wasn't

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Speaker 1: like standing on a owner with ten girls, you know

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Speaker 1: what I mean, Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. So so

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Speaker 1: so it appears and he did actually probably put some

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Speaker 1: of them in by offering them drugs instead of cash.

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Speaker 1: Oh for sure. I mean yeah, I think he definitely

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Speaker 1: did that. And I mean he, you know, according to

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Speaker 1: what the police told me, I mean, he didn't smoke,

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Speaker 1: and he really didn't drink very much himself, but he

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Speaker 1: knew that, you know, he could lure girls in with drugs.

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Speaker 1: So I think that that's exactly what he was doing.

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Speaker 1: I mean I know that he was also you know,

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Speaker 1: paying some girls, because there was a videotape that the

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Speaker 1: prosecutor show during his trial, and he video taped this

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Speaker 1: girl and she didn't It looked like she had no

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Speaker 1: idea he was videotaping her. And she kind of comes

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Speaker 1: out of this bathroom and she's got a T shirt on,

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Speaker 1: the jeans, and then she takes her jeans off, and

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Speaker 1: you know, he's taking he tells her to take her

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Speaker 1: top off, so she takes her top off and he's

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Speaker 1: taking you know, he's taking photos of her, and then

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Speaker 1: they do like a sex act and then he sort

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Speaker 1: of just put some money on this table, just really

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Speaker 1: like non slantly, just put some money on the table,

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Speaker 1: and then she just sort of while she's talking to him,

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Speaker 1: sort of reaches her hand up, grabs the money, puts

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Speaker 1: in her pocket. They talked for a few minutes and

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Speaker 1: then he turns off the video when she goes into

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Speaker 1: the bathroom and then that's that. So yeah, he was

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Speaker 1: definitely paying some of the women. So he didn't videotape

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Speaker 1: himself committing any of the murders? Did he? Now they

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Speaker 1: can find They didn't find, but they found so most

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Speaker 1: of the videos. Actually he wasn't in the videos. It

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Speaker 1: was mostly women in the videos like doing you know,

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Speaker 1: dancing for him or touching themselves or whatever the scenario was,

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Speaker 1: and you could see his hand. But they only had

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Speaker 1: like one or two videos where he actually was in it.

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Speaker 1: So he was pretty he was smart. Where thee Where

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Speaker 1: were the most of the women in the videos? Were

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Speaker 1: they his victims? Or were they women who turned out

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Speaker 1: to be found alive and well, well some of them

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Speaker 1: like they did. They never identified the bulk of them,

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Speaker 1: but they did find photos of They found a photo

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Speaker 1: of Nittzure Washington, who was a survivor. They found a

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Speaker 1: photo of Geneva Peters, who was his victim in January first,

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Speaker 1: two thousand seven, the last known victim. And they also

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Speaker 1: found the I d like a driver's license in a

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Speaker 1: student identification of two women that went missing in two

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Speaker 1: thousand five, I La Marshall and Rolina Morris. Both women

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Speaker 1: went missing right near them. They were known to hang

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Speaker 1: hang out around Franklin's house on around eighty one and Western,

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Speaker 1: and they found their identification tucked in an envelope along

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Speaker 1: with Genesia Peters photo in this mini fridge in his garage,

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Speaker 1: But none of the video was of any of the

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Speaker 1: women that were confirmed his victims. Is that correct? That's right? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's right. Yeah, so um so. I one of the

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Speaker 1: questions I wanted to ask you, and this relates to

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Speaker 1: both Lonnie and the Daytona Beach serial killer. Is there

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Speaker 1: hunting grounds is the term I'm going to use? And

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Speaker 1: how far they roam from essentially their home base? Because

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Speaker 1: not very far? Well Lonnie, Yeah, he didn't seem to

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Speaker 1: go very far afield, which feels weird to me. I mean,

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Speaker 1: he like like a mile or three? Is that about

360
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Speaker 1: how far he roamed? I think the far farthest victim

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Speaker 1: was about five miles away. But yeah, no, he he operated.

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Speaker 1: He hunted in his own backyard, and that's like most

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Speaker 1: serial killers do that. I mean they had back in

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Speaker 1: the eighties and South Los Angeles there was um, you know,

365
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Speaker 1: six serial killers operating at the same time, and they

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Speaker 1: were able to identify all of them actually, and all

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Speaker 1: of them lived in South Los Angeles. I mean, Chester

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Speaker 1: Turner was one of the serial killers, and he hunted

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Speaker 1: like literally within two blocks of where his mud where

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00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:54,760
Speaker 1: he lived with his mother. You know, they like familiar territory,

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Speaker 1: you know, they don't want to be surprised. They want

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Speaker 1: to know. Lonnie was a garbage man and he knew

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Speaker 1: the alleyways like he knew the dumpsters of South Los

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Speaker 1: Angeles because that's where he worked, right, So they want

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00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:08,640
Speaker 1: to have they want to feel comfortable. So that's why

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00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:12,480
Speaker 1: most serial killers actually operate, you know, in the same

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00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:15,320
Speaker 1: area where they dumped their bodies. I was always kind

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Speaker 1: of wondering too if if one of the reasons they

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Speaker 1: do it is they're just trying to clean up the neighborhood.

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Speaker 1: What I'm saying, I mean, I don't mean that, I

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Speaker 1: don't mean that in a harsh judgmental way, but I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, seriously, is that possibly a motivator for some

383
00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:28,680
Speaker 1: of these guys that they're they don't really approve of

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Speaker 1: that activity, and they'd like to see it sort of discouraged. Well,

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Speaker 1: I mean obviously that was the case for Lonnie. I

386
00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:36,919
Speaker 1: mean he considered I mean, it's obvious he considered the

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Speaker 1: women brash, right, and so he dumped their bodies and

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Speaker 1: trapped you know, so he considered them trash, you know.

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Speaker 1: And his wife was there, yeah, and dumpsters, and his

390
00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:47,639
Speaker 1: wife was very religious, so he maybe there was something

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Speaker 1: for him. He you know, I think he had this

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Speaker 1: like compulsion, you know. I think that he couldn't control himself.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he had there was he was always after women.

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Speaker 1: You know, he was like addicted to women. And I

395
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Speaker 1: think that in his case, I think that, you know,

396
00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:06,520
Speaker 1: you also had this deep seated hatred and you know

397
00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:09,399
Speaker 1: where it came from. It's hard to say, because it

398
00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:12,640
Speaker 1: seemed like he had a good relationship with his mother

399
00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:15,600
Speaker 1: and his sister, you know, so it's hard to say

400
00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:19,800
Speaker 1: exactly why how he ended up, you know, hating women

401
00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:22,720
Speaker 1: so much, But you know, I think that's what he thought.

402
00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:24,880
Speaker 1: I think he thought he was cleaning the streets. Yeah

403
00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:28,600
Speaker 1: that's crazy. Okay, So let's back up a little bit,

404
00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:31,919
Speaker 1: because I realized we haven't asked this question yet. Um,

405
00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:35,399
Speaker 1: where did the name the grim Sleeper come from? Um?

406
00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:42,720
Speaker 1: My editor and I made it up. Oh good one score. Now,

407
00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:46,560
Speaker 1: well she was when we I mean when she um

408
00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:48,680
Speaker 1: when I told her about the story. We're writing the story,

409
00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:51,199
Speaker 1: and she actually she was like, you know, we have

410
00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:53,159
Speaker 1: to name him. And I didn't want to name him.

411
00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:54,880
Speaker 1: Actually I was like, no, I don't think that's right

412
00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:58,280
Speaker 1: to do that, and she said, yes, I think you know,

413
00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:00,600
Speaker 1: you should and everything like that. We just sided that

414
00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:03,600
Speaker 1: it was a good idea just because you know, a

415
00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:05,560
Speaker 1: lot of the serial killers out there, like Son of

416
00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:09,360
Speaker 1: Sam and all these guys Zodiac. I mean I think

417
00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:12,159
Speaker 1: that they're known because they were nicknamed, right, so everyone

418
00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:13,800
Speaker 1: knows about them. And I wanted in this case. I

419
00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:16,199
Speaker 1: didn't want this case to go away, you know, like

420
00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:18,840
Speaker 1: all of sudden you get media attention and then the

421
00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:22,679
Speaker 1: next day no one, nobody cares. And so our hope

422
00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:25,360
Speaker 1: was that by nicknaming him, people would remember the name

423
00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:28,800
Speaker 1: and they couldn't forget about the case. And so her

424
00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:31,280
Speaker 1: and I started, you know, trying to go through different names,

425
00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:33,240
Speaker 1: and she was like, Ripper van Winkle was one of

426
00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:35,280
Speaker 1: the ones she was unaware night no, no, no, no,

427
00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:37,720
Speaker 1: as I was. And then I was like, what about

428
00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:39,840
Speaker 1: grim Sleeper because of the break in the case. She

429
00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:41,600
Speaker 1: was like yes, I'm like no, no, no, no, I

430
00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:44,000
Speaker 1: was kidding. I hate that name. And she's like, no, no,

431
00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:49,440
Speaker 1: we're calling him that's too bad. Bad? Exactly was it?

432
00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:52,119
Speaker 1: I can't tell what you're done talking when you just

433
00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:55,240
Speaker 1: dropped out because of the because the skype, hopefully you're

434
00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:57,439
Speaker 1: hopefully you're done. I was gonna say, you should have

435
00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:00,119
Speaker 1: named in the Tooth Fairy after the serial killer in

436
00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:02,399
Speaker 1: Red Dragon. I don't know if you ever read that

437
00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:05,720
Speaker 1: book or not, No, but I heard about him. Actually yeah, yeah,

438
00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:07,600
Speaker 1: but the tooth Fairy. What was great about that? As

439
00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:09,160
Speaker 1: they called him the tooth Fairy and it really made

440
00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:13,280
Speaker 1: the killer angry and then he sort of uh contacted

441
00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:16,640
Speaker 1: the reporter, uh well in a kind of brewal way.

442
00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:20,719
Speaker 1: So it's probably good that you didn't. Probably really what

443
00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:25,840
Speaker 1: we're getting at um? So with Lonnie no um. Lonnie

444
00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:31,320
Speaker 1: took what was it a fourteen year break? Is that correct? Well,

445
00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:33,840
Speaker 1: I mean at first they thought it was a thirteen

446
00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:36,119
Speaker 1: and a half year break, but then they lived. They

447
00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:38,800
Speaker 1: found a victim in two thousands, so it was it

448
00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:41,960
Speaker 1: was it was ten years now as opposed to like

449
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:45,480
Speaker 1: thirteen and a half, it might keep narrowing to I was.

450
00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:47,920
Speaker 1: So that was my question is you know, we hear

451
00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:53,199
Speaker 1: about stories like Lonnie where somebody is supposedly taken a break.

452
00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:56,240
Speaker 1: Do you think that he actually took a break or

453
00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:59,000
Speaker 1: do you think that it just happened to be that

454
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:02,520
Speaker 1: we haven't been able to draw the links from found

455
00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:05,560
Speaker 1: victims to him. Are victims that weren't found that would

456
00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:10,960
Speaker 1: be my guess. Well, the detectives definitely don't think that

457
00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:14,280
Speaker 1: he took a break. Um. They think that because two

458
00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:17,200
Speaker 1: of the victims, Bernita Sparks and Genesia Peters, were found

459
00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:21,280
Speaker 1: in dumpsters by you know, homeless people looking for like

460
00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:24,280
Speaker 1: recyclables and stuff like that, and so um, there was

461
00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:25,800
Speaker 1: a good chance that they would have ended up in

462
00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:29,520
Speaker 1: a landfill. So the detectives think that a lot of

463
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:32,840
Speaker 1: his victims ended up in landfills because they think like,

464
00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:35,160
Speaker 1: he's known to have killed fifteen women, but they think

465
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:37,760
Speaker 1: it's probably closer to thirty. And that's some of the

466
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:41,560
Speaker 1: women you know are in landfill, you know landfills right now.

467
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:44,399
Speaker 1: So I don't know, like I think that. I mean,

468
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:46,040
Speaker 1: I know that there was a case in two thousand,

469
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:49,280
Speaker 1: so I mean his last known victim was in and

470
00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:52,560
Speaker 1: then there was a case in two thousand. During the nineties,

471
00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:54,280
Speaker 1: it was also a time when his kids would have

472
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:57,480
Speaker 1: been teenagers, you know, so you know who knows. I mean,

473
00:23:57,720 --> 00:23:59,119
Speaker 1: you know, maybe they were like, Dad, what are you

474
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:01,320
Speaker 1: doing leaving? The was at three o'clock in the morning,

475
00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:02,919
Speaker 1: Like where are you going? Like I don't, you know,

476
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:04,320
Speaker 1: I don't know if there was something going on in

477
00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:06,600
Speaker 1: his family life that you know, stopped him from doing it,

478
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:09,680
Speaker 1: because you know, like with for example, like Gary Ridgeway,

479
00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:12,479
Speaker 1: the Green River killer, I mean, he would stop at

480
00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:15,320
Speaker 1: times too, you know, when he was happy in his relationships,

481
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:17,719
Speaker 1: So I think sometimes he's like serial kill as they

482
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:21,400
Speaker 1: might stop if they're happy in their relationships. Like maybe

483
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:23,879
Speaker 1: you know, Lonnie was happy and you know with a

484
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:26,159
Speaker 1: girl he was dating. You know, who knows, But the

485
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:29,399
Speaker 1: cops don't don't actually think that he did. But you know,

486
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:31,640
Speaker 1: it's hard to tell, so I don't I'm not really sure,

487
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:34,200
Speaker 1: but he did, you know, he was definitely, I mean,

488
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:37,879
Speaker 1: there was a flurry right from then, all of a

489
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:40,199
Speaker 1: sudden there's not a lot going. But then again, in

490
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:43,480
Speaker 1: nine eight eight, they had a suspect, a sheriff deputy

491
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 1: deputy named Ricky Ross, So maybe he decided to lay

492
00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:50,000
Speaker 1: low because they were focused on this, you know, deputy.

493
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:52,560
Speaker 1: He's probably it's hard to say, probably hoping the deputy

494
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:54,440
Speaker 1: would like take the fall for you know, and that

495
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:57,879
Speaker 1: never wind up happening. Well, the deputy actually got arrested

496
00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:02,359
Speaker 1: and charged with them like these three unrelated murders, but

497
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:06,160
Speaker 1: the detectives actually thought that he was responsible for the

498
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:09,639
Speaker 1: caliber murders because he admitted that he owned a twenty

499
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:13,000
Speaker 1: five caliber gun. But it ended up that the ballistics

500
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:15,600
Speaker 1: didn't match with this gun that they found in his

501
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:18,120
Speaker 1: car and the bullets that were pulled out of these

502
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:20,680
Speaker 1: three prostitutes that were killed around the same time and

503
00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:24,000
Speaker 1: Netria was attacked, so they ended up dropping the case.

504
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 1: But the detectives actually believed up until I talked to

505
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:29,320
Speaker 1: one of the detectives back in two thousand six, and

506
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:31,960
Speaker 1: he still believed it was Ricky Ross who was the deputy,

507
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:34,879
Speaker 1: you know, So I think that you know, Lonnie, for

508
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:37,639
Speaker 1: a while, they're probably thought that, you know, they were

509
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:39,640
Speaker 1: focused on somebody else, so he was gonna lay low

510
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 1: and now Lonnie. Lonnie would eventually get caught because of

511
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:47,520
Speaker 1: familiar DNA. But did they ever find his gun, that

512
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:50,000
Speaker 1: that twenty five caliber that he was using on all

513
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:52,720
Speaker 1: these girls. I don't remember seeing anything that I've ever

514
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:55,480
Speaker 1: actually got found. Well, they didn't find the gun that

515
00:25:55,600 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 1: he used um for the victims from up to eight.

516
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:03,800
Speaker 1: But when they searched his home, they found the gun

517
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:06,760
Speaker 1: that was used to kill Genesia Peters, the two thousand

518
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:11,080
Speaker 1: seven victim, and that gun was also used they found

519
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:13,199
Speaker 1: After like they arrested him and charged him with the

520
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 1: ten murders, they ended up finding out that he was

521
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:19,600
Speaker 1: also responsible for this murder. Found out they found the

522
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:23,000
Speaker 1: gun and basically traced to Sharon Dismuke the bullet that

523
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 1: was pulled out of her. So the gun that they

524
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:28,320
Speaker 1: found in one of the Genesia Peters. So they did

525
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 1: find one of the guns, and they found a receipt

526
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:34,760
Speaker 1: for the gun they think was used to kill the

527
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:37,240
Speaker 1: other victims in the eighties, but they never found that gun.

528
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:42,359
Speaker 1: Okay Okay. Now, Also when I was doing the reading,

529
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:46,920
Speaker 1: I know that there's there's a lot of controversy around

530
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:51,800
Speaker 1: the use of familiar DNA and what what is what

531
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:55,240
Speaker 1: is the uproar about that? I personally don't get it. Well.

532
00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:56,720
Speaker 1: I think that you know, a lot like a c

533
00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:00,520
Speaker 1: l U and you know, civil liberty be organized nations

534
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 1: and civil rights organizations. You know, they believe it's an

535
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:09,440
Speaker 1: invasion of privacy and they think that it unfairly targets minorities,

536
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:14,120
Speaker 1: you know, because there's more minorities like African American, Hispanics,

537
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:16,400
Speaker 1: et cetera, in prison, So they're saying that in fairly

538
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 1: targets that population. Like England did a study many years

539
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:23,399
Speaker 1: ago and they found that like if you're for the

540
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:26,400
Speaker 1: familiar DNA because as you know, like Lonnie, they had

541
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:29,880
Speaker 1: his DNA, but Lonnie had never gone to prison, so

542
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:32,639
Speaker 1: he had never been swabbed. So that's why they didn't

543
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:35,120
Speaker 1: know who he was. But they knew he was matched

544
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:38,680
Speaker 1: to the victims in the eighties and the victims in

545
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 1: the tooth and the two thousand's because of they found

546
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:44,560
Speaker 1: saliva on many of the women's breasts and so they

547
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:47,199
Speaker 1: knew he was, you know, there was one killer, but

548
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:50,359
Speaker 1: because he wasn't in any felon data bank, they couldn't

549
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 1: find him. So that's why they decided to use that

550
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 1: familiar DNA. And it was the first time actually in California,

551
00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:00,200
Speaker 1: actually in the US, that they used familiar d in

552
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:03,199
Speaker 1: testing to find a serial killer. And they checked it

553
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:04,720
Speaker 1: in two thousand and eight. And how it goes with

554
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:08,440
Speaker 1: the familiar DNA, I mean, they had been UM England

555
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:11,600
Speaker 1: had been using it for many years. And basically they

556
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:14,919
Speaker 1: said that if you're a felon, there's at chance that

557
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:17,200
Speaker 1: you're going to have like a male relative, like a

558
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:21,159
Speaker 1: cousin and uncle, a brother, a father who's a felon.

559
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:23,720
Speaker 1: So if you're not in the data bank, there's a

560
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 1: chance that you're gonna have a relative who's in the

561
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:29,879
Speaker 1: data bank and so and so that's why they did

562
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:32,639
Speaker 1: it in two thousand eight and it came back nothing.

563
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 1: And then they did it two years later and the

564
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 1: felone data bank had grown four hundred thousand, and so

565
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 1: they did it again. And Lonnie's son Christopher had been

566
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 1: charged with UM carrying a weapon and he pled guilty

567
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:51,360
Speaker 1: and as a result of his plea, he got swabbed

568
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:53,720
Speaker 1: and that was in two thousand nine, so he was

569
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:56,840
Speaker 1: in the system for she's just like close to a

570
00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:00,080
Speaker 1: year you know, before they did that second d in

571
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:03,720
Speaker 1: a swab and it came back as a match to him,

572
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:06,640
Speaker 1: but he was They knew it wasn't him because he

573
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:09,120
Speaker 1: would have been about two years old when the murder started,

574
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:12,040
Speaker 1: so they knew he right, So they knew he had

575
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:13,800
Speaker 1: to be you know, he They knew he was related

576
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:16,120
Speaker 1: to the killer, and so they actually looked for any

577
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:18,760
Speaker 1: relative and there was an uncle, well, they thought there

578
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:21,560
Speaker 1: was an uncle in Rancho Cucamonga, but they ended up

579
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:25,040
Speaker 1: checking checking it out and finding that there was no relation.

580
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 1: And then they found out that his father, Lonnie, lived

581
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 1: like on eight one and Western, which was like at

582
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 1: the epicenter of where all the murders took place. And

583
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:39,240
Speaker 1: so that's why they ended up you know, following you know, Lonnie.

584
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:42,959
Speaker 1: And after three days they got his DNA off a

585
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:46,320
Speaker 1: pizza slice. He went with his girlfriend to a pizza

586
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:50,280
Speaker 1: parlor and yeah, I read about that one of the articles. Yeah,

587
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 1: I'm the LAPD cop. Impersonated waiter or something like that

588
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:56,320
Speaker 1: bus boy and went around and had like a bus

589
00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:59,000
Speaker 1: band and half the stuff was Lonnie's and the other

590
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 1: half was you know, just people at the table and

591
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:03,960
Speaker 1: it was like a kiddie's birthday party for kids, and

592
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 1: kids are running around eating pizza. So the cop you know,

593
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:09,360
Speaker 1: just went and grabbed his dishes and they ended up

594
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:11,680
Speaker 1: they grabbed he had a plate with a piece of

595
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:14,080
Speaker 1: cake on it, and they ended up they were able

596
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:18,160
Speaker 1: to get the swab from a hardened piece of cheese

597
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 1: from the pizza. Um, So did I hear you correctly? Um?

598
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:29,240
Speaker 1: Prefer to some psychics they were involved in this case. Well,

599
00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 1: I had when when the story broke into do I

600
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 1: did another store? I did one in two thousand and six,

601
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:36,680
Speaker 1: and I did one in two thousand and eight, and

602
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 1: that's when we nicknamed him the Grim Sleeper. So I

603
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:42,000
Speaker 1: ended up getting a lot of calls from people, and

604
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:44,160
Speaker 1: I want you know a few of them I got

605
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:46,720
Speaker 1: were from psychics. And one of them was this woman

606
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 1: who believe that, you know, she knew who the killer

607
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:53,920
Speaker 1: was and he was killing women. He was a really

608
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:55,760
Speaker 1: good looking guy, and she said he was like a

609
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 1: cross between what was his name? That what's his name?

610
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:03,720
Speaker 1: The tennis not the tennis player, you know. She said

611
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 1: he was a cross between tiger Woods and I forget somebody.

612
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:08,720
Speaker 1: I forget who the other person was. She said he

613
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:11,440
Speaker 1: was a cross between and she said that, you know,

614
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 1: he was a lawyer. His no, his wife didn't know

615
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 1: I know. And I'm gonna have to look through my

616
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:20,520
Speaker 1: book to see what I what I wrote. For some reason,

617
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 1: I can't remember. But yeah, so you know, I had

618
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:24,520
Speaker 1: a few people that did that. I had this one

619
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:27,680
Speaker 1: woman who contacted me and said that, you know, her house,

620
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:29,400
Speaker 1: she believed that her husband was a killer, but she

621
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:32,480
Speaker 1: didn't really have any good reason. Yeah, I think she

622
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:35,560
Speaker 1: just she just felt he was shady. Wasn't it something

623
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:38,040
Speaker 1: like that? Well, I mean, she just it was more

624
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:41,320
Speaker 1: like this gut feeling, she said. And she was like,

625
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:43,520
Speaker 1: I just want to make sure. And I said, well,

626
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:45,000
Speaker 1: just you know, touch to the police, and she's like no,

627
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:47,720
Speaker 1: when she was afraid that the police would basically, you know,

628
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:50,960
Speaker 1: like target him and whatever. And so she was like,

629
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:52,960
Speaker 1: if I get d N A, will you give it

630
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 1: to the cops or test it. I'm like, well, we

631
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:57,520
Speaker 1: don't test DNA at the only weekly And I said,

632
00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:00,400
Speaker 1: but I guess, And I said, I guess we could.

633
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:01,760
Speaker 1: I could give it to the police. And I just thought,

634
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:03,160
Speaker 1: you know, I was getting a lot of calls like

635
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:05,320
Speaker 1: you end up and I talked to so many people

636
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:06,840
Speaker 1: who I thought they were like, oh my god, it's

637
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 1: so and so, and you're completely convinced. You're like, oh

638
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 1: my god, it's got to be this person. And then

639
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:13,080
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, the next thing out of their

640
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:15,800
Speaker 1: mouth mouth is that, you know, the FBI is tapping

641
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:18,680
Speaker 1: their phone and the CIA is knocking on their door,

642
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:20,520
Speaker 1: and you're like, oh my god, said you had me

643
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 1: for you know, so this woman, I didn't think i'd

644
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 1: get a call back. And then and she called called

645
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:27,880
Speaker 1: me back and she was like, can we, you know,

646
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 1: meet up? You know I have his you know d

647
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:31,960
Speaker 1: n A. And so I ended up meeting up with

648
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:35,760
Speaker 1: her and she told me she passed me it was

649
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 1: like a not a like a Jason Bourne thing, and

650
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 1: she's I met her on a bench near work and

651
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 1: she sat down next to me and passed me in

652
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 1: this bag and in there she was like, it's a

653
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:49,280
Speaker 1: cop and inside there's like the napkin. And she said

654
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:50,760
Speaker 1: it was a napkin and she said it were Simon

655
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:51,760
Speaker 1: on it. And I was like, oh my god. I

656
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 1: thought it was supposed to be like a saliva sample

657
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:57,560
Speaker 1: and she's like no. I was like, oh no, And

658
00:32:57,560 --> 00:32:59,720
Speaker 1: So I ended up calling the detective who was the

659
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 1: main detective on the case, and I said, this is

660
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 1: what I have, and all of a sudden there was

661
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:07,080
Speaker 1: a complete silence on the line and I'm like, one

662
00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:09,000
Speaker 1: of my it was like a hundred degrees in l A.

663
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:09,840
Speaker 1: And I'm like, what do you want me to do?

664
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:11,800
Speaker 1: Can I drop it off? He's like, I'm out of town.

665
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:14,960
Speaker 1: He's like, put it in your fridge. I'll and I'll

666
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:16,480
Speaker 1: you know, to the l A. P D the next

667
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 1: morning or whatever. I'm like, put in my fridge. He's like, yeah,

668
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 1: I put it next year like veggies. And I'm like,

669
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 1: oh my god. So I ended up putting it in

670
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 1: the US. Was it at least like sealed at the

671
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:29,560
Speaker 1: ziplock bag? I hope? So it didn't stick up the

672
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:37,720
Speaker 1: your fridge. No, there wasn't any ziplock bag. Um. One

673
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:41,040
Speaker 1: of the things that I so I was wondering about

674
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:44,200
Speaker 1: is I noticed a lot of the girls, at least

675
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 1: in the neighborhoods in the writing, they're referred to as strawberries.

676
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:52,680
Speaker 1: What is that and where exactly does that come from?

677
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:55,800
Speaker 1: Do you know, well, I know, like I know that

678
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:58,880
Speaker 1: it was a police term term used in the eighties

679
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:03,280
Speaker 1: and it was basically women, you know, who exchanged sex

680
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 1: for drugs. But I don't know why how they got

681
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:10,040
Speaker 1: strawberry out of it, Like I just know that's what

682
00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:13,439
Speaker 1: the term means, but I don't know why, Like who

683
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:17,560
Speaker 1: came up with strawberry? Okay, I was just curious if

684
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:21,920
Speaker 1: it just it struck me as a bit strange. Yeah,

685
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 1: So let's talk a little bit about the task force

686
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:29,799
Speaker 1: that was formed in the two thousands that eventually would

687
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:34,320
Speaker 1: help catch Lonnie. Normally, task force are created by police

688
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:37,120
Speaker 1: departments and they stir up a lot of dust and

689
00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:41,480
Speaker 1: then nothing seems to really come from it. Why was

690
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:44,680
Speaker 1: this particular task force, the eight hundred task force, you

691
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:49,120
Speaker 1: think so successful at what what they did? Well? I

692
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 1: think they were success. I mean, at the end of

693
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:54,120
Speaker 1: the day, they were success. I mean the detective who

694
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:56,680
Speaker 1: is the supervisor in the case, he told me from

695
00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:58,480
Speaker 1: the very beginning that the case was going to be

696
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:03,239
Speaker 1: solved through DNA. I these guys bent over backwards. You know,

697
00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:05,800
Speaker 1: there was like seven or eight you know, task force members,

698
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:07,920
Speaker 1: and they bent over backwards. I mean they went through

699
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:12,880
Speaker 1: the murder books again. You know, they literally followed hundreds

700
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:15,640
Speaker 1: of people are you know, around like witnesses from the eighties,

701
00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:18,280
Speaker 1: and you know, they were getting like hundreds of calls themselves,

702
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:21,480
Speaker 1: like thousands of calls, and they were following people around

703
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:25,120
Speaker 1: like obtaining you know, DNA swabs and things like that.

704
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:27,719
Speaker 1: Like they actually went to Georgia. There was one um

705
00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:30,799
Speaker 1: they thought that there was a minister that might be involved,

706
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:33,680
Speaker 1: and so they actually flew to Georgia and he was

707
00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:35,760
Speaker 1: in a crypt and they actually opened up the crypt

708
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:38,799
Speaker 1: and got a DNA sample, you know, because they were

709
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:42,279
Speaker 1: it was mostly about getting d N a right, you know,

710
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:44,960
Speaker 1: because it's like this case was like trying you know,

711
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:46,880
Speaker 1: it's trying to find a needle in a haystack. I

712
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:50,000
Speaker 1: mean how difficult. You know, it's a body dump left there,

713
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:52,920
Speaker 1: you know, back in the eighties and even two thousand

714
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 1: to two thousand three, two thousand seven, I mean, no witnesses.

715
00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:58,920
Speaker 1: You know, the bodies were dumped, They were killed somewhere

716
00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:01,120
Speaker 1: else and dumped in the alley. I mean it was

717
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 1: a miracle that they actually were able to find him

718
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:06,160
Speaker 1: and so soon too. I mean a lot of the case.

719
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:08,000
Speaker 1: Look at what happened with the Green River killer. It

720
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:10,759
Speaker 1: was like twenty something years before they finally caught him.

721
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:14,239
Speaker 1: Same with B t K. I remember, yeah too. I was.

722
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:16,440
Speaker 1: I was around for living in the area, and a

723
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:18,680
Speaker 1: lot of people were very angry after all those years

724
00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:20,960
Speaker 1: and they still hadn't caught the guy. And it's just

725
00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:23,120
Speaker 1: like you said, though you're looking for a needle in

726
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:28,120
Speaker 1: a haystack, it's expecting a lot, really, and it's really

727
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:30,839
Speaker 1: lucky that guy's kid got busted the year before they

728
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:33,560
Speaker 1: were nabbed him. Well, I don't think they ever if

729
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:37,120
Speaker 1: if it wasn't for that familiar DNA and that his son,

730
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:39,279
Speaker 1: I said, I don't think they ever would have caught

731
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:41,880
Speaker 1: I think it was just too difficult, you know, it

732
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:44,120
Speaker 1: was just it was just too hard. They were really

733
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:48,919
Speaker 1: they were really lucky. I think they were pretty shocked themselves. Yeah,

734
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:51,480
Speaker 1: I'm sure that that was, you know, somebody delivering the

735
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 1: golden goose. Well, and all these guys, a lot of

736
00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 1: them were retiring, so this was like their last big case, right,

737
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:01,520
Speaker 1: So this was kind of, uh, the big case of

738
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 1: their career, and to be able to solve it, you know,

739
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:06,960
Speaker 1: it was just what a great way to retire, right

740
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:10,960
Speaker 1: on that note, That's pretty awesome. Yeah, absolutely, so you

741
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:12,919
Speaker 1: knew these guys. Did they have a big party when

742
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:16,160
Speaker 1: the whole thing was over. Um, well, they probably did,

743
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:24,120
Speaker 1: but they didn't invite me. Yeah. Now, I actually I

744
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 1: did go to Uh I did you know? At first

745
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:30,839
Speaker 1: my relationship with them, it wasn't very good. But I

746
00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 1: think as the time went by, you know, like I've

747
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 1: called them up and you know, give them you know,

748
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:36,640
Speaker 1: this person called me, did you check them out? And

749
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:38,560
Speaker 1: they'd be like, yeah, yeah, we already checked that person

750
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:40,960
Speaker 1: out or whatever. So I, you know, and they'd have

751
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:44,040
Speaker 1: you know, no police press conferences all the time, and

752
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:46,319
Speaker 1: I'd go there and you know, talk to them. So

753
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:49,200
Speaker 1: I think they'd begrudgingly, we're okay with me. And then

754
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:53,040
Speaker 1: so when they retired, I was invited to um two

755
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:55,279
Speaker 1: of the two of the detectives retirement party. So I

756
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:57,240
Speaker 1: thought that was pretty good. And I'm still in contact

757
00:37:57,239 --> 00:38:02,640
Speaker 1: with a couple of the detectives. Still nice. That very cool. Yeah,

758
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:07,640
Speaker 1: UM asked any other questions? Uh, so, well, you're you're

759
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:09,439
Speaker 1: with people now, You're not in the l A beat

760
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:12,720
Speaker 1: so much anymore. So I'm just gonna ask, just by chance,

761
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:16,839
Speaker 1: are you following any serial active serial killers right now? Well? Not. Well,

762
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:20,440
Speaker 1: I'm working on a case actually, um, well, not working out.

763
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:22,759
Speaker 1: But there's a guy, there's another serial killer, but he

764
00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 1: was he's in jail right now pending trial. And he

765
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:30,879
Speaker 1: was a serial killer who murdered one of m well,

766
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:33,560
Speaker 1: there was a girl that was dating actually Ashton Kutcher

767
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:35,560
Speaker 1: at the time, back in two thousand and one one.

768
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:39,680
Speaker 1: And he lived in Chicago and killed allegedly killed a

769
00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:42,719
Speaker 1: young girl there and then moved to Los Angeles and

770
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:47,359
Speaker 1: then killed three women here. And so he's sitting on

771
00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:50,560
Speaker 1: in County jail waiting for his trial, which is probably

772
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:54,719
Speaker 1: gonna come in November. But I'm not There's a few cases,

773
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:57,919
Speaker 1: like the Long Island serial killer. That's one that I've

774
00:38:57,960 --> 00:38:59,839
Speaker 1: done a lot of work on, you know, that one

775
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:02,400
Speaker 1: that's not in l A. I do a lot of

776
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:05,520
Speaker 1: l A cases, But I don't there's one, actually, there

777
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:07,520
Speaker 1: is one case, but it's not the case. It's um

778
00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:11,440
Speaker 1: this case called the Teardrop Rapist. And there's this rapist

779
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:15,600
Speaker 1: who had been raping women like Hispanic women, and he's

780
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:19,879
Speaker 1: also Hispanic himself, and he had been raping women since

781
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:24,719
Speaker 1: the eighties, almost as prolific as Lonnie Franklin. He's he well,

782
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:27,480
Speaker 1: he raped over fifty women from like the late eighties,

783
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:30,160
Speaker 1: and they still haven't caught him, and they've tried familiar

784
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:32,800
Speaker 1: DNA testing and everything, and he's still on the loose

785
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:34,959
Speaker 1: and his last victim was a couple of years ago.

786
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:39,600
Speaker 1: He sorry, there was a pause there. We were all

787
00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:43,160
Speaker 1: just kind of yeah, I don't like to think about that.

788
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:45,400
Speaker 1: I just keep hoping that that guy is going to

789
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:47,480
Speaker 1: run into somebody who's got a big old knife or

790
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:49,400
Speaker 1: a gun, honor. That would just end the whole thing

791
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:53,120
Speaker 1: that'd become of nice, that act. Well, he was just sorry,

792
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:55,480
Speaker 1: go ahead. Oh, I was just gonna say, I've actually

793
00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:58,799
Speaker 1: just recently read us an article I can't remember where

794
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:03,400
Speaker 1: this woman was, of some guy who met a woman

795
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:06,640
Speaker 1: through some website and he came over. It was very

796
00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:10,719
Speaker 1: obvious that he intended to to end her life, and

797
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:13,800
Speaker 1: she turned the tables on him, and you know, he's

798
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:16,920
Speaker 1: dead in the ground and they can't figure out. I

799
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:19,319
Speaker 1: can't remember who his name is now was I just

800
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:22,120
Speaker 1: read it the other day and they she took him

801
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:23,239
Speaker 1: out and they were like, oh, yeah, I know. He

802
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:26,440
Speaker 1: had shovels, he had stuff he was he was going

803
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:31,239
Speaker 1: to remove your body. It so it sometimes that happens, Joe,

804
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:33,879
Speaker 1: I know it says. It warms my heart to hear

805
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:37,040
Speaker 1: about it too. What they call the hero Hooker or

806
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:40,880
Speaker 1: something like that. It was really the name Wasn't Wasn't.

807
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:42,600
Speaker 1: I heard about that case too. I think it was

808
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:45,560
Speaker 1: back east right maybe around Cleveland or somewhere. And the

809
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:48,320
Speaker 1: girl he came over to her house and he jumped

810
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:50,560
Speaker 1: here and she had I forget what she had, and

811
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:52,799
Speaker 1: she just beat him, you know, beat him to a pulp.

812
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:55,239
Speaker 1: And then they end up finding all this in the

813
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:57,400
Speaker 1: back of his trunk. He had all this, you know,

814
00:40:57,480 --> 00:40:59,759
Speaker 1: like ropes and all this other stuff. And then they

815
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:01,960
Speaker 1: they found out that he was responsible for like three

816
00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:04,879
Speaker 1: or four other murders. Yeah, and they couldn't figure out

817
00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:08,160
Speaker 1: how he was funding his cross country tour of killing

818
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:11,160
Speaker 1: because he just he was like a night security guard

819
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:14,280
Speaker 1: or something like that. I it's the details are pretty

820
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:18,560
Speaker 1: soft at this point in my brain, but that's pretty awesome.

821
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:22,440
Speaker 1: So ahead, And I was gonna say last question about California,

822
00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:25,479
Speaker 1: since you're still living there. My this is really off

823
00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:28,279
Speaker 1: serial killers, but they're kind of been my serial killer

824
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:30,840
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame, which would be Leonard Lake and Charles

825
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:33,399
Speaker 1: NG and I know Charles in the last I heard

826
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:35,640
Speaker 1: is on death row in California? Is he's still on

827
00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:39,920
Speaker 1: death row? They finally together because he was sentencing and

828
00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:43,000
Speaker 1: last I heard, he's still alive. Do you know if

829
00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:45,239
Speaker 1: they finally knocked him off or not? You know what,

830
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 1: I'm not sure, but I believe he's still on death row.

831
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:51,640
Speaker 1: A really sounds like a simple Google search. Joe, Oh yeah,

832
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:53,520
Speaker 1: I suppose that. Well. I I'm not near a computer

833
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:55,279
Speaker 1: right now except the one that we're using to talk

834
00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:58,080
Speaker 1: to talk to her, so I can't really do it.

835
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:00,839
Speaker 1: I didn't occur to. He tells us, now, what's going

836
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:04,680
Speaker 1: on with Charles, saying, wonder if he's dead yet? Probably not.

837
00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:08,960
Speaker 1: I don't think so. I don't think he is. Okay, Christine,

838
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:12,640
Speaker 1: you know we we've been remissing this so far, and

839
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:14,919
Speaker 1: I'll make sure that this is in the beginning of

840
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:18,960
Speaker 1: the everything when we release. But I forgot to ask

841
00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:21,560
Speaker 1: to make sure that we had given the full title

842
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:23,440
Speaker 1: of the name of your book, So can you share

843
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:26,320
Speaker 1: that with everybody real fast? Oh? Sure? It's The Grim

844
00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:30,480
Speaker 1: Sleep for the Lost Women of South Central And is

845
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:37,400
Speaker 1: this your first book you've written? Others, Oh, it is okay, know,

846
00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:41,560
Speaker 1: my first and probably the only book. Congratulations, that's a

847
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:44,239
Speaker 1: great accomplishment. I've been wanting to write a book for

848
00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:46,840
Speaker 1: a long time now. I still haven't quite achieved it.

849
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:51,360
Speaker 1: I haven't even written the first page. How was the experience.

850
00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:55,719
Speaker 1: I just thought in this case, it was just if

851
00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:58,000
Speaker 1: the detectives weren't going to write the story, or the

852
00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:01,239
Speaker 1: prosecutors or you know, my members of you know, of

853
00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:02,719
Speaker 1: the victims, that they weren't going to do it. I

854
00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:04,719
Speaker 1: just thought thought that I was the you know, since

855
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:06,719
Speaker 1: I had been you know, and I just and I

856
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:08,360
Speaker 1: kept you know, I had all my notes, and I

857
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:11,359
Speaker 1: knew everybody involved, so if anyone was going to write

858
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:13,640
Speaker 1: it, and and I just felt like I should, you know,

859
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:15,200
Speaker 1: And if I was ever going to write a book,

860
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:16,920
Speaker 1: I thought to myself, this is the book that I

861
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:20,000
Speaker 1: should write because this is the one I know so well.

862
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:24,879
Speaker 1: I know everybody involved, I know the case. That's why

863
00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:28,839
Speaker 1: I decided. I mean, the hurdles they came up, and

864
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:32,600
Speaker 1: the gaps and everything. I kept reading it. I I really,

865
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:35,120
Speaker 1: I will admit there was a couple of times I thought,

866
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:37,319
Speaker 1: maybe you took a little bit of artistic license. Until

867
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:38,920
Speaker 1: I figured out I was like, no, this only crap

868
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:43,359
Speaker 1: is really happening. Well, I just think that like this

869
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:45,239
Speaker 1: case in particular, I just thought that it was a

870
00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:48,520
Speaker 1: case that people should know about because I know, you know,

871
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:51,239
Speaker 1: there's a lot of cases out there that got a

872
00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:54,399
Speaker 1: lot more attention, and I felt like there wasn't enough

873
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:56,880
Speaker 1: attention to this case and to the victims, and so

874
00:43:56,960 --> 00:43:59,440
Speaker 1: I just really wanted to make people aware of, you know,

875
00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:02,680
Speaker 1: who who the victims were, and you know, they mattered,

876
00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:05,400
Speaker 1: their families mattered, you know, said to me, it was

877
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:07,600
Speaker 1: like important for that to get out there because you know,

878
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:09,440
Speaker 1: as you know, you know, you guys do a lot

879
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:11,279
Speaker 1: of crime. There's a lot of stories that you never

880
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:13,759
Speaker 1: hear about, you know, and they're just as important as

881
00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:16,680
Speaker 1: every other story, you know. So I just wanted this,

882
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:18,520
Speaker 1: you know, I wanted people to know who you know,

883
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:22,200
Speaker 1: Deborah was, and Henrietta and Bernida and Genetia, you know,

884
00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:26,680
Speaker 1: all his victims. So absolutely that's why I did it. Well,

885
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:28,960
Speaker 1: that's that's great, I mean we did. We tend to

886
00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:31,840
Speaker 1: like the smaller, lesser known mysteries for that reason, because

887
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:35,400
Speaker 1: everybody could talk about Ted Bundy every day, but everybody

888
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:38,160
Speaker 1: really knows that story. Yeah, everybody talks about John Bone

889
00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:41,200
Speaker 1: and we're like, we're not We're not going to do that.

890
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:45,880
Speaker 1: There's so many other more interesting cases that we could find,

891
00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:50,120
Speaker 1: you know, and do more justice too. Yeah, and they

892
00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:53,120
Speaker 1: just never get the attention. So, you know, this guy

893
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:56,759
Speaker 1: was like the most prolific serial killer you know in

894
00:44:56,880 --> 00:45:00,520
Speaker 1: like Los Angeles history, you know, and they should people

895
00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:03,120
Speaker 1: should know about it. People should know about the victims

896
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:05,279
Speaker 1: and who they were, and you know what happened, and

897
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:07,840
Speaker 1: you know, and it's just it's just a really interesting

898
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:10,520
Speaker 1: story as well, you know, just from the very beginning.

899
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:12,799
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, him being in the military and

900
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:15,120
Speaker 1: just you know, all the way through. So you know,

901
00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:17,120
Speaker 1: I think it's you know, I just think it's a

902
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:22,080
Speaker 1: compelling tale that people should read well and and for

903
00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:25,319
Speaker 1: everybody who wants to pick up a copy and and

904
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:28,719
Speaker 1: read the tale. Where are where can people find enemy?

905
00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:32,040
Speaker 1: Is it an e book? Is it at certain retailers? Oh? Yeah,

906
00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:33,720
Speaker 1: you could get it. It's a new release at Barnes

907
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:37,560
Speaker 1: and Noble. Um, you could get it at any bookstore

908
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:40,680
Speaker 1: pretty much. You can get it online and Amazon. You

909
00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:43,680
Speaker 1: could go to my website. Christine pelisak dot com and

910
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:46,759
Speaker 1: there's a linked to Amazon where you could you could

911
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:49,800
Speaker 1: get it on Amazon. Um, if you're in Canada, you

912
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:52,680
Speaker 1: could get it on Amazon dot c A or Indigo

913
00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:55,600
Speaker 1: dot c A. I was just in Canada and I'm Canadian.

914
00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:58,920
Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying that I was wondering if you like,

915
00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:04,520
Speaker 1: you know, it sounds slightly Canadian. Yeah, you say a

916
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:12,719
Speaker 1: lot constantly, so yeah, I think you could pretty much

917
00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:19,719
Speaker 1: get it most places. Okay, well we are weird. We've

918
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:22,600
Speaker 1: decimated this question and list that I have in front

919
00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:25,520
Speaker 1: of me was more than decimated. Yeah, we decimated. We

920
00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:27,600
Speaker 1: would only have executed one out of ten. I have

921
00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:31,759
Speaker 1: to keep reminding people about that. Um So, is there

922
00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:34,520
Speaker 1: any any last bits that you'd like to to bring

923
00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:36,719
Speaker 1: up for folks to know about the case or the

924
00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:41,160
Speaker 1: book or anything like that before we wrap everything up. No,

925
00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:44,439
Speaker 1: I don't think so, I think, I you know, I don't.

926
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:47,320
Speaker 1: I can't recall anything else. I just think that people,

927
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:49,319
Speaker 1: I think. I just think it's an interesting story that

928
00:46:49,360 --> 00:46:52,319
Speaker 1: people should everyone should you know, know all about it?

929
00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:56,719
Speaker 1: We agree, Yeah, definitely, Well it is. It has been

930
00:46:56,760 --> 00:46:59,120
Speaker 1: a lot of fun to get to chat with you again.

931
00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:01,239
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for taking the time to talk

932
00:47:01,280 --> 00:47:04,520
Speaker 1: to us today. Yeah, well, thank you very much. I

933
00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:06,640
Speaker 1: had a lot of fun and I hope it made sense,

934
00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:11,120
Speaker 1: but you totally did. Uh, you know, and tell best

935
00:47:11,120 --> 00:47:13,120
Speaker 1: of luck with salesview book. I hope it's a runaway

936
00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:15,719
Speaker 1: best seller and I can picture it now with Tom

937
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:18,800
Speaker 1: Cruise is a handsome police detective and Denzel Washington is

938
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:21,919
Speaker 1: a serial killer. And so we'll see and we'll see

939
00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:24,160
Speaker 1: what happens. You never know. Well, I'll keep our fingers

940
00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:26,600
Speaker 1: crossed for you. Yeah, and whoever you want to play you?

941
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:36,520
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, good point. Yes, I was thinking Charlie's theo on. Okay,

942
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:39,799
Speaker 1: thank you again, and you have a good evening. Yeah,

943
00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:42,080
Speaker 1: thank you guys very much. I really appreciate it. Nice

944
00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:44,600
Speaker 1: talk chatting with you guys. By right, we'll see you

945
00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:44,960
Speaker 1: next time.