WEBVTT - Tap Versus Swipe 0:00:04.240 --> 0:00:07.560 Get in techt with Technology with text Stuff from stuff 0:00:07.560 --> 0:00:14.600 works dot com. Hey everyone, and welcome to text Stuff. 0:00:14.640 --> 0:00:18.200 I'm Jonathan Strickland and I'm Lauren, and today we're going 0:00:18.280 --> 0:00:20.760 to talk about some more money matters. We had our 0:00:20.840 --> 0:00:23.360 discussion about all of our currency, which was a lot 0:00:23.400 --> 0:00:26.600 of fun, but it's not the only thing about money 0:00:26.600 --> 0:00:29.440 in tech that really is an interesting subject that's come 0:00:29.520 --> 0:00:32.760 up in discussion a lot, particularly in the United States recently. Oh, 0:00:33.000 --> 0:00:36.280 certainly not. In fact, many ways that we exchange money 0:00:36.320 --> 0:00:40.479 these days are really really technological. Yeah. In fact, uh, 0:00:40.560 --> 0:00:43.600 the vast majority of the way money changes hands has 0:00:43.640 --> 0:00:46.920 nothing to do with any sort of physical currency whatsoever. Yeah, 0:00:46.960 --> 0:00:50.960 I never actually carry cash on me. But we've never 0:00:51.360 --> 0:00:54.800 really talked on this show about how credit cards work. Yeah, 0:00:54.880 --> 0:00:57.680 that's true. And uh, and so we actually put forth 0:00:57.720 --> 0:01:01.160 that we're going to do an episode about smart cards 0:01:01.240 --> 0:01:05.119 and smart technology and NFC and credit cards and asked 0:01:05.120 --> 0:01:08.199 if anyone had any other questions. We did have response Chase, 0:01:08.240 --> 0:01:10.720 our buddy, Chase said, be sure to talk about coin. 0:01:11.120 --> 0:01:14.240 Don't worry, Chase, we got you covered. And you you 0:01:14.280 --> 0:01:17.480 may be thinking, but what about traditional magnetic stripe cards? 0:01:17.520 --> 0:01:20.319 And we are totally not talking about those today. Now, well, well, 0:01:20.360 --> 0:01:22.720 well here, here's all you need to know. Okay, there's 0:01:22.760 --> 0:01:26.520 information that's related to the credit card account you have 0:01:26.680 --> 0:01:29.679 that's located on that magnetic stripe. You can have a 0:01:29.720 --> 0:01:32.720 reader that reads that information when the stripe is pushed 0:01:32.760 --> 0:01:35.480 past it that that actually has that little magnetic field 0:01:35.480 --> 0:01:39.039 that can generate the information necessary for the processing of 0:01:39.080 --> 0:01:42.800 the payment. But really we wanted to talk about some 0:01:42.920 --> 0:01:45.839 of the more advanced technologies will probably at some point 0:01:45.880 --> 0:01:48.160 go back and actually talk about the development of that 0:01:48.280 --> 0:01:51.560 magnetic stripe tech because we were so dependent upon it 0:01:51.640 --> 0:01:53.520 for so long. In fact, in the United States we're 0:01:53.520 --> 0:01:56.440 still very heavily dependent upon it. And actually that's why 0:01:56.480 --> 0:01:59.600 we wanted to do this episode about NFC technology because 0:01:59.640 --> 0:02:03.880 in j Nuary of some forty million US Target customers 0:02:04.760 --> 0:02:07.920 Target the brand the store, the store um had their 0:02:07.920 --> 0:02:11.520 credit card information stolen during a hack. And in February 0:02:11.639 --> 0:02:14.000 the news broke that Congress and the major credit card 0:02:14.040 --> 0:02:17.040 companies here in the States are are finally in agreement 0:02:17.160 --> 0:02:20.440 that America should move to these smart credit cards, which 0:02:20.560 --> 0:02:23.040 I'm sure has the rest of the world just snickering 0:02:23.040 --> 0:02:26.919 at us, because this is technology that exists in other 0:02:27.000 --> 0:02:30.480 places and has existed in other places for decades. Yeah, 0:02:30.520 --> 0:02:34.120 in fact, so much so that it's become part of 0:02:34.120 --> 0:02:38.800 of just like the general UH language. I remember watching 0:02:38.840 --> 0:02:41.680 this little tangent here, but I remember watching an episode 0:02:42.200 --> 0:02:44.919 of that Mitchell and web Look, which is a comedy 0:02:44.919 --> 0:02:48.520 sketch series from the over in the UK, and at 0:02:48.560 --> 0:02:52.680 one point there is a comedy duo vaudeville team called 0:02:52.800 --> 0:02:56.200 uh Fish and Chip and they're breaking up. That that's 0:02:56.240 --> 0:02:58.800 their last names are Fish and Chip. That's adorable. But 0:02:58.919 --> 0:03:00.880 Chip breaks up to go and join up with a 0:03:00.919 --> 0:03:03.880 guy whose last name is Pen, so it's Chip and Pen. 0:03:04.680 --> 0:03:06.519 I had no idea that that was a thing when 0:03:06.520 --> 0:03:08.960 I saw this pen are. Yeah, I didn't know that 0:03:09.040 --> 0:03:12.120 Chip and pen was. That was just that's the shorthand 0:03:12.160 --> 0:03:15.560 for this technology of a chip that's inside a credit 0:03:15.560 --> 0:03:19.160 card and a pen a personal identification number that you 0:03:19.280 --> 0:03:23.280 used to fully fulfill a transaction. I didn't know that. 0:03:23.400 --> 0:03:25.120 I just was like, oh, so you're going from an 0:03:25.240 --> 0:03:28.920 established pairing of things to something unusual, And then as 0:03:28.960 --> 0:03:31.359 the joke continue, like no, this must be a thing. 0:03:32.320 --> 0:03:34.320 And again it just shows how in the United States 0:03:34.520 --> 0:03:38.160 we're way behind on this technology. Yeah, so master Card 0:03:38.200 --> 0:03:40.920 and Visa have both set themselves a deadline of October 0:03:42.360 --> 0:03:45.000 to roll this technology out to their customers in the US. 0:03:45.360 --> 0:03:47.560 But but, but let's let's go back a little bit. 0:03:47.640 --> 0:03:51.000 What exactly are smart cards? Where does this NFC? What 0:03:51.000 --> 0:03:53.360 what is NFC? Where does all this technology come from? 0:03:53.400 --> 0:03:57.280 An excellent question. NFC stands for near field communication, which 0:03:57.280 --> 0:03:59.760 we've talked about on this podcast before. But you know, 0:03:59.800 --> 0:04:03.080 it's good to have a refresher. And near field communication 0:04:03.160 --> 0:04:06.440 is just a type of short range radio transmission. It's 0:04:06.520 --> 0:04:10.360 it's not in itself some sort of brand new technology 0:04:10.360 --> 0:04:12.960 that we had never thought of. It's just a very 0:04:13.000 --> 0:04:17.479 specific implementation of radio waves. Right, It's not like not 0:04:17.600 --> 0:04:20.839 like some brand new weird energy that glows orange in 0:04:20.839 --> 0:04:24.120 the dark or something. Right, And what's actually special about 0:04:24.160 --> 0:04:26.680 it is that it's extremely short range, like like ten 0:04:26.720 --> 0:04:29.719 centimeters or less. Yeah. Yeah, ten centimeters tends to be 0:04:29.839 --> 0:04:34.400 what people say is the maximum transmission distance for most implementations. 0:04:34.440 --> 0:04:37.200 I think technically it can go up to around twenty 0:04:37.240 --> 0:04:40.720 centimeters depending upon how you build it into your technology. 0:04:40.760 --> 0:04:43.800 But for the for the applications we're thinking about, ten 0:04:43.800 --> 0:04:46.839 centimeters makes the most sense, because you're actually talking about 0:04:47.160 --> 0:04:51.520 exchanging information between two very small devices that can be 0:04:51.560 --> 0:04:54.159 brought into proximity with one another. So it's not the 0:04:54.160 --> 0:04:56.240 sort of thing you want to be able to broadcast 0:04:56.279 --> 0:04:59.880 across a country, let alone a room, certainly, which you 0:05:00.160 --> 0:05:02.919 is why usually we don't talk about very short distances 0:05:02.920 --> 0:05:05.400 being special in technology, but but this is, this is 0:05:05.400 --> 0:05:08.280 one of those rare occasions. And uh, it's it's also 0:05:08.360 --> 0:05:12.200 good for transmitting small amounts of information. Yeah, it's not 0:05:12.279 --> 0:05:15.560 designed to move lots of data very quickly. In fact, 0:05:15.680 --> 0:05:19.960 the maximum speed, depending again upon the implementation, is around 0:05:20.000 --> 0:05:23.120 a hundred six kilabits per second up to four four 0:05:23.200 --> 0:05:26.360 killa bits per second. The killa bits per second, that's 0:05:26.800 --> 0:05:29.800 that's not a lot right in the grand scheme of things. 0:05:30.000 --> 0:05:31.680 If you had taught me back in the Apple two 0:05:31.720 --> 0:05:34.800 E days, I would have thought, wow, that was fat. 0:05:34.920 --> 0:05:37.240 You can move everything I've ever written in just a 0:05:37.279 --> 0:05:40.920 couple of seconds. But these days, that's that's super slow. 0:05:40.960 --> 0:05:43.560 I mean, we're talking now about people getting fiber where 0:05:43.600 --> 0:05:46.279 they get a gigabit per second download. That's I don't 0:05:46.279 --> 0:05:49.279 even understand what that means right now. Right now, that 0:05:49.360 --> 0:05:52.000 just seems like a dream, although Google Fiber possibly coming 0:05:52.040 --> 0:05:56.000 to Atlanta, uh and totally different podcasts. But anyway, Yes, 0:05:56.040 --> 0:06:00.400 so NFC really suited for this the small amount of data, 0:06:00.480 --> 0:06:04.920 small number of packets going between chips and uh there 0:06:04.960 --> 0:06:08.400 are lots of different implementations of that as well. Right. Okay, 0:06:08.440 --> 0:06:10.520 So so we mentioned that this is all sent via 0:06:10.600 --> 0:06:14.200 a radio frequency. What frequency is that? Thirteen point fifty 0:06:14.279 --> 0:06:18.320 six mega hurts Okay. Um. It was chosen specifically for 0:06:18.360 --> 0:06:22.200 its suitability for for inductive coupling, which we'll get into 0:06:22.240 --> 0:06:24.320 in a second here. But it's basically the technology that 0:06:24.360 --> 0:06:27.520 makes all of this work. Um. And it's also pretty 0:06:27.520 --> 0:06:32.000 resistant to environmental interference and human tissue does not readily 0:06:32.040 --> 0:06:34.120 absorb it. Yeah, these are all very important things if 0:06:34.120 --> 0:06:37.720 you're talking about a technology that's going to be around people. Yeah, 0:06:37.760 --> 0:06:39.640 Like we're talking about stuff that could be either that 0:06:39.680 --> 0:06:42.200 credit card that we're going to talk about eventually, or 0:06:42.839 --> 0:06:45.360 even a smartphone where you have a virtual credit card 0:06:45.440 --> 0:06:49.880 stored on another device. Plus, this idea of the resistance 0:06:49.920 --> 0:06:53.239 to environmental interference really important. If you're talking again about 0:06:53.240 --> 0:06:55.840 something that's going to be used frequently. You don't want, 0:06:56.000 --> 0:06:58.680 you know, if there's some sort of weird stormy weather 0:06:58.720 --> 0:07:02.080 outside and suddenly you can't process payments. If you're an 0:07:02.120 --> 0:07:06.520 umbrella store, that's bad news. That's very bad news. That's 0:07:06.520 --> 0:07:09.120 a terrible business model. Yes, you should have gone with 0:07:09.160 --> 0:07:13.640 some other payment plan. Okay. So so technically this is 0:07:13.680 --> 0:07:16.680 an extension of r f I D technology, which is 0:07:16.680 --> 0:07:19.200 why you might have sometimes heard uh, n f C 0:07:19.520 --> 0:07:22.600 and r f I D being kind of equated colloquially. Yeah, 0:07:22.680 --> 0:07:25.360 it's it's similar in r f I D stands for 0:07:25.440 --> 0:07:29.120 radio frequency identification, So it's it's kind of like if 0:07:29.160 --> 0:07:32.360 you've ever had one of those um those security badges 0:07:32.520 --> 0:07:36.080 that you then hold up to a reader that when 0:07:36.080 --> 0:07:38.600 it detects the security badge, it will unlock the door 0:07:38.640 --> 0:07:40.760 for you so you can continue in. Most of those 0:07:40.760 --> 0:07:44.840 badges are using r f I D rather than NFC technology, 0:07:44.840 --> 0:07:47.440 although technically they could use either. I mean, some of 0:07:47.480 --> 0:07:49.920 them probably do use n f C. It depends on 0:07:50.000 --> 0:07:52.560 it depends on how much money and what exactly you 0:07:52.600 --> 0:07:54.800 want to do with this kind of thing. But but 0:07:54.920 --> 0:07:57.160 both of these technologies when you really get down to it. 0:07:57.280 --> 0:08:00.440 Our applications of that inductive coupling stuff that we were 0:08:00.480 --> 0:08:03.280 talking about just a minute ago um. And that's the 0:08:03.520 --> 0:08:06.840 property of flowing electrons and magnetic fields to influence each 0:08:06.840 --> 0:08:11.040 other um, meaning that when electrons flow through a conductive material, 0:08:11.080 --> 0:08:15.000 they create a magnetic field. And conversely, and existing magnetic 0:08:15.040 --> 0:08:17.680 field can create a flow of electrons in a conductive 0:08:17.680 --> 0:08:21.040 material exactly as long as you've got a fluctuating magnetic field, 0:08:21.080 --> 0:08:23.720 because otherwise, if you or or in this case, you're 0:08:23.720 --> 0:08:26.640 talking about bringing something within the proximity of a magnetic 0:08:26.720 --> 0:08:30.000 field that will cause electrons to flow. The important thing 0:08:30.040 --> 0:08:33.160 is if you want to make that last like you 0:08:33.200 --> 0:08:35.320 want to, and it's something that's going to be a 0:08:35.360 --> 0:08:39.199 magnetic field that continues to induce electricity, it has to 0:08:39.240 --> 0:08:43.040 be a fluctuating magnetic field, otherwise it'll just it will 0:08:43.080 --> 0:08:45.880 induce electricity originally at first, and then everything kind of 0:08:45.880 --> 0:08:49.000 balances out. So the same sort of thing with alternating current. 0:08:49.040 --> 0:08:52.040 Actually alternating current is necessary to create that magnetic field 0:08:52.040 --> 0:08:56.040 because or at least a fluctuating one, because otherwise balances 0:08:56.280 --> 0:08:58.760 And yeah, you just get something that's equivalent to a 0:08:58.760 --> 0:09:02.200 bar magnet, which would be useful for a moment and 0:09:02.200 --> 0:09:05.079 then not useful anymore. Right, we know all of this 0:09:05.240 --> 0:09:08.480 thanks to Michael Faraday's work way back in the eighteen thirties. 0:09:08.480 --> 0:09:12.160 So this is not new technology technically, no, But I 0:09:12.200 --> 0:09:14.360 should point out that Michael Faraday made all of his 0:09:14.400 --> 0:09:20.680 purchases in cash, so just made that up alright, So yeah, 0:09:20.800 --> 0:09:23.959 r F I D. Originally we're talking about a passive system, right, 0:09:24.000 --> 0:09:27.880 It's not something that's actively communicating between two entities. So 0:09:27.920 --> 0:09:30.400 in other words, you really had something that was kind 0:09:30.440 --> 0:09:33.559 of like a detector, and then if the right sort 0:09:33.600 --> 0:09:37.840 of chip came into the the field of the detector, 0:09:38.160 --> 0:09:41.880 everything's cool. But you're not getting like an exchange of information, right, 0:09:41.960 --> 0:09:44.080 And what's going on there is that if you've got 0:09:44.120 --> 0:09:47.440 a chip in something um and by by passing that's 0:09:47.440 --> 0:09:50.400 something near a reader that generates a magnetic field, you're 0:09:50.640 --> 0:09:54.000 inducing the flow of electricity in the chip, thus creating 0:09:54.000 --> 0:09:57.559 a pneumatic magnetic field which the reader can then pick up. Right. 0:09:57.640 --> 0:09:59.720 So this is pretty simple stuff. I mean, it's not 0:09:59.800 --> 0:10:02.440 like the chip inside whatever it is, whether it's a 0:10:02.520 --> 0:10:06.240 key fob or a card or whatever, it's not itself, 0:10:06.360 --> 0:10:09.199 uh connected to any sort of battery. It only gets 0:10:09.200 --> 0:10:12.280 that electricity when it comes into contact with that magnetic 0:10:12.320 --> 0:10:16.040 field of the reader. So, uh that you know that's passive. 0:10:16.080 --> 0:10:18.559 It means that there's not an active amount of electricity 0:10:18.600 --> 0:10:21.320 going through that chip. However, there are also active versions 0:10:21.360 --> 0:10:24.200 of r F I D. Yeah, if you power that chip, 0:10:24.280 --> 0:10:26.600 it will allow you to to a to extend the 0:10:26.640 --> 0:10:29.440 chip to reader distance and also to store some information 0:10:29.480 --> 0:10:31.400 on the chip for the reader to find. Right, So 0:10:31.440 --> 0:10:34.160 in this case we're talking about something more advanced than 0:10:34.240 --> 0:10:37.360 just a key in a lock. Now we've got something 0:10:37.360 --> 0:10:41.000 where you could theoretically have information stored on that r 0:10:41.080 --> 0:10:44.720 F I D chip. That is very important to allow 0:10:44.800 --> 0:10:47.840 you to do some form of transaction, whether it's monetary 0:10:47.920 --> 0:10:52.040 or otherwise. Right. NFC uses this same technology, but it 0:10:52.040 --> 0:10:56.200 allows for for data transfer both ways, and basically does 0:10:56.240 --> 0:10:59.000 this by letting the chip and the reader both have 0:10:59.120 --> 0:11:02.360 the capacity to act as the active or the passive 0:11:02.400 --> 0:11:05.280 partner in the transaction and they kind of switch roles 0:11:05.400 --> 0:11:08.320 or flip flop back and forth in order to complete 0:11:08.320 --> 0:11:11.280 any given transaction. And this is what really makes that 0:11:11.520 --> 0:11:14.720 NFC ability. Like using it in the in the sense 0:11:14.800 --> 0:11:18.120 of a payment makes it really useful because not only 0:11:18.240 --> 0:11:21.679 can it allow you to pay for something, you can 0:11:21.720 --> 0:11:25.440 have this ongoing relationship between an app on either a 0:11:25.480 --> 0:11:29.160 credit card or in your phone or whatever whatever implementation, 0:11:29.559 --> 0:11:32.440 there can be this ongoing communication that allows you to 0:11:32.440 --> 0:11:35.440 do other things besides just make a payment, like apply 0:11:35.880 --> 0:11:38.760 bonuses that you may have accrued by being a frequent 0:11:38.760 --> 0:11:41.560 shopper at a particular place you know, or really carefully 0:11:41.679 --> 0:11:45.080 encrypt a payment. Yes, and that will be really important 0:11:45.080 --> 0:11:47.080 for us to talk about when we get into the 0:11:47.600 --> 0:11:52.439 at least the perceived drawbacks of NFC. So we're talking 0:11:52.480 --> 0:11:54.719 about lots you know this. This is just kind of 0:11:54.760 --> 0:11:59.080 a platform, right, This is just a way of transmitting information. Again, 0:11:59.120 --> 0:12:02.000 it doesn't necessary early mean that it's just paying. It 0:12:02.000 --> 0:12:04.280 can be practically anything. And in fact, one of the 0:12:04.320 --> 0:12:07.360 examples that I would hear all the time when I 0:12:07.400 --> 0:12:10.880 was first hearing about NFC being incorporated into cell phones, 0:12:11.200 --> 0:12:12.960 so that you would have an NFC chip in a 0:12:13.000 --> 0:12:15.600 cell phone that you could bring to cell phones together 0:12:15.880 --> 0:12:19.120 and exchange an electronic business card. So that way, if 0:12:19.120 --> 0:12:21.640 I'm at a conference and everyone happens to have these phones, 0:12:21.960 --> 0:12:25.000 we can meet with one another and do this quick exchange, 0:12:25.080 --> 0:12:27.320 so I now have their contact information. I don't have 0:12:27.360 --> 0:12:31.559 to keep up with lots of physical paper cards that ultimately, 0:12:31.640 --> 0:12:34.240 you know, you're going to the washers or they're going 0:12:34.280 --> 0:12:37.280 to go into a dusk drawer or into the garbage. 0:12:37.320 --> 0:12:39.680 I mean, it's just you know, that's that's the thing. 0:12:39.800 --> 0:12:42.280 So that was one example, but there are a lot 0:12:42.280 --> 0:12:44.800 of other ones too, Like, for example, maybe maybe Lauren 0:12:44.840 --> 0:12:48.560 and I both have UH music players electronic music players 0:12:48.559 --> 0:12:51.400 that have these this NFC technology in it, I might 0:12:51.440 --> 0:12:54.200 be able to do. You know, Lauren's listening to some 0:12:54.280 --> 0:12:56.600 music that I think sounds interesting, but I'm not familiar 0:12:56.640 --> 0:12:58.520 with it, and then just by tapping the phones, she 0:12:58.559 --> 0:13:01.040 can give me the information where I have access to 0:13:01.080 --> 0:13:03.560 that same sort of music. This would never actually happen 0:13:04.080 --> 0:13:08.120 because also the fact that Lauren and I listened to 0:13:08.120 --> 0:13:11.560 totally different types of music, and so I would never 0:13:11.600 --> 0:13:16.640 ever think anything she listened to was interesting and vice versa. Clearly. Yeah, 0:13:16.880 --> 0:13:20.040 you know, I mean, come on, I like Tibetan throat 0:13:20.160 --> 0:13:23.080 screen singing. It's just it's that's my thing. I've never 0:13:23.160 --> 0:13:26.760 listened to Tibetan thrash metal, but that's that's interesting, okay, Um, 0:13:26.800 --> 0:13:29.520 all right, And so if you're thinking that all of 0:13:29.559 --> 0:13:32.800 this UH near field communications r F I D stuff 0:13:32.840 --> 0:13:36.240 sounds a lot like that Bluetooth low energy beacon stuff 0:13:36.280 --> 0:13:39.320 that we were talking about in a recent episode. It's 0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:41.920 it's kind of similar, but it's different in a couple 0:13:41.960 --> 0:13:44.439 of ways. First of all, NFC and r F I 0:13:44.559 --> 0:13:48.040 d uh with with those things, the device that contains 0:13:48.080 --> 0:13:49.800 the chip has to be a lot closer to the 0:13:49.800 --> 0:13:52.920 reader than with Bluetooth low energy. Right, Bluetooth you've got 0:13:52.960 --> 0:13:56.240 like a maximum range of fifty meters, which, if you 0:13:56.280 --> 0:14:00.520 do the math, is significantly greater than ten centimeters. It's 0:14:00.520 --> 0:14:05.520 significantly You're indeed correct. And secondly, each chip and reader 0:14:05.679 --> 0:14:09.280 can only interact with one thing at a time. That is, 0:14:09.559 --> 0:14:12.440 once a transaction is started with a chip, the reader 0:14:12.440 --> 0:14:15.440 will communicate only with that chip, and the chip only 0:14:15.440 --> 0:14:18.760 with that reader until the transaction is complete. So NFC 0:14:18.880 --> 0:14:22.200 isn't good for broadcasting to multiple multiple devices the way 0:14:22.200 --> 0:14:25.360 that Bluetooth blow energy is. But this actually, in my opinion, 0:14:25.400 --> 0:14:27.600 makes it more ideal for the kind of things like 0:14:28.000 --> 0:14:31.320 payment process. It's more secure. Yeah, you know that you're 0:14:31.360 --> 0:14:35.120 not accidentally paying for someone else's purchase, or you know 0:14:35.160 --> 0:14:37.600 there's that things aren't getting yeah, if everything is set 0:14:37.640 --> 0:14:40.160 up correctly, right, right, like First of all, the range 0:14:40.240 --> 0:14:42.800 is so short that it's not likely that some let's 0:14:42.800 --> 0:14:46.280 say it's a store that has multiple cash registers, unless 0:14:46.280 --> 0:14:49.160 those cash registers are really close together and and those 0:14:49.400 --> 0:14:51.840 reading devices are you know, practically next to each other, 0:14:51.880 --> 0:14:55.160 which can create problems of multiplying the field and getting 0:14:55.200 --> 0:14:57.800 everything kind of confused. Yeah, that that would be a problem, 0:14:57.800 --> 0:15:00.920 but you know, it's fairly easy to solve. For one thing, 0:15:01.200 --> 0:15:04.160 it's not likely that you're gonna have two devices within uh, 0:15:04.400 --> 0:15:08.240 you know, having that ten centimeter overlap radius overlap. But 0:15:08.320 --> 0:15:11.760 for another, because it has this one on one communication 0:15:11.920 --> 0:15:14.880 and blocks everything else out, you don't have to necessarily 0:15:14.920 --> 0:15:17.720 worry about their being interference from other ways either, like 0:15:17.800 --> 0:15:22.240 someone taking out their their smartphone that has the same 0:15:22.240 --> 0:15:24.280 sort of technology to make their purchase in their next 0:15:24.320 --> 0:15:26.880 to you, but because of the arc of their hand 0:15:27.520 --> 0:15:30.720 it comes into contact with that field. It really reduces 0:15:30.800 --> 0:15:34.960 those those, um, those worst case scenarios quite a bit. 0:15:36.280 --> 0:15:41.240 So let's talk about actual NFC credit cards. Now, again, 0:15:41.280 --> 0:15:43.320 this is one of those things where in some countries 0:15:43.440 --> 0:15:46.080 this is ah, this has been looked into for a while, 0:15:46.200 --> 0:15:50.280 But let's let's talk about specifically the United States because one, 0:15:50.360 --> 0:15:53.200 we lived there, and too, there's this new initiative for 0:15:53.280 --> 0:15:55.560 the US to kind of move to this smart credit 0:15:55.600 --> 0:15:58.760 card technology and to explain to our our U S 0:15:58.800 --> 0:16:01.640 listeners what the big deal, while again all of our 0:16:01.680 --> 0:16:05.720 friends over in Europe and Asia chuckle to themselves. Sure, 0:16:05.840 --> 0:16:08.360 because France was really the first country to adopt the 0:16:08.400 --> 0:16:11.760 technology for for payment related purposes. That was like what 0:16:11.960 --> 0:16:18.200 like to three years ago in Night four? Whoa, okay, alright, 0:16:18.280 --> 0:16:20.720 nineteen eighty four, the year after Return of the Jedi 0:16:20.800 --> 0:16:23.760 came out, and they furthermore, are you sure that wasn't 0:16:24.360 --> 0:16:29.880 two eighty three? They all came out three years apart. Sorry, 0:16:29.920 --> 0:16:33.840 I didn't mean to question you. Um. Furthermore, France had 0:16:33.840 --> 0:16:37.920 widespread chip based credit and debit systems by nineteen two, 0:16:38.360 --> 0:16:41.880 So so we're we're technically really only fourteen or known. 0:16:42.040 --> 0:16:44.920 That's twenty four years behind, not thirty something years. But 0:16:45.040 --> 0:16:50.160 well that's that's something right. So again, it's it's it's 0:16:50.200 --> 0:16:52.680 not that the United States hasn't tried this kind of 0:16:52.720 --> 0:16:57.320 stuff out, or that we don't have companies that are 0:16:57.320 --> 0:17:00.880 working on building this technology into their credit cards. It's 0:17:00.920 --> 0:17:04.080 just that we don't necessarily see it spread out widely 0:17:04.119 --> 0:17:08.120 across our entire infrastructure. Right. Uh sure. Side note, I'm 0:17:08.119 --> 0:17:10.320 not sure if I actually said numbers correctly. I really 0:17:10.320 --> 0:17:12.880 can't subtract on the fly, so if if you need 0:17:12.920 --> 0:17:14.720 to write it and correct me on that one. But 0:17:14.720 --> 0:17:18.760 but okay, So anyway, the US has indeed seen applications 0:17:18.760 --> 0:17:21.360 of this technology before. It's not completely new, like Jonathan 0:17:21.400 --> 0:17:27.119 was just saying, circa seven mobile, the the Gasoline Petroleum Company, 0:17:27.960 --> 0:17:30.920 debuted a station credit card system that used an r 0:17:31.000 --> 0:17:33.400 F I D key chain to access the user's account, 0:17:33.520 --> 0:17:36.400 and then in two thousand five, JP Morgan Chase introduced 0:17:36.400 --> 0:17:40.040 a card a credit card UH with a proprietary r 0:17:40.160 --> 0:17:43.600 F I D system called blink right, and then Visa 0:17:43.720 --> 0:17:46.560 and master Card have both been looking into it as well. 0:17:47.000 --> 0:17:50.080 Moving into the two thousand's, we've seen that technology come up, 0:17:50.640 --> 0:17:54.959 but again, not so useful if if you were kind 0:17:55.000 --> 0:17:58.240 of a homebody. Right. Well, the problem is that this 0:17:58.320 --> 0:18:01.479 technology is terrific, but it only works if stores are 0:18:01.480 --> 0:18:04.040 set up with the infrastructure to allow you to use it. 0:18:04.240 --> 0:18:07.040 So although they were pretty great for Americans who traveled 0:18:07.040 --> 0:18:09.680 to other countries, there weren't that many places that you 0:18:09.680 --> 0:18:11.639 could use them in the US, and in fact, I 0:18:12.080 --> 0:18:14.760 know that there are tourists who come to the United 0:18:14.800 --> 0:18:17.639 States who are used to this system and back in 0:18:17.680 --> 0:18:21.200 Europe or back in Asia who then I wonder why 0:18:21.240 --> 0:18:23.639 you have to take their credit card in order to 0:18:24.240 --> 0:18:26.919 make a payment at say a restaurant or you know, 0:18:27.000 --> 0:18:29.199 they the whole swiping thing is one of those things 0:18:29.240 --> 0:18:33.120 that oh, how how how quaint and insecure. But we'll 0:18:33.119 --> 0:18:35.479 get into that too, but yeah, it was. It's one 0:18:35.520 --> 0:18:37.159 of those things where I know there are people who 0:18:37.240 --> 0:18:39.320 come over to the United States are kind of I mean, 0:18:39.359 --> 0:18:43.719 the US has this this at least this reputation of 0:18:43.760 --> 0:18:47.359 being really technologically advanced and forward thinking and all of 0:18:47.400 --> 0:18:50.919 those kind of things, but when you get to certain industries, 0:18:51.320 --> 0:18:53.840 we really lag behind. In fact, we lag behind in 0:18:53.840 --> 0:18:57.160 a lot of ways. But but you know, within within 0:18:57.200 --> 0:18:59.600 the United States, we don't we don't tend to think 0:18:59.640 --> 0:19:01.840 that way because we're kind of insulated and we aren't 0:19:01.840 --> 0:19:04.199 living in this own little tech tech bubble where we 0:19:04.200 --> 0:19:07.480 think we've got all the best stuff. Guys, we don't 0:19:07.520 --> 0:19:09.840 have the best stuff. We do not we had the 0:19:09.880 --> 0:19:13.640 best stuff in a long time. Merchants and credit card 0:19:13.640 --> 0:19:17.159 companies both have cited the cost of the infrastructure, and 0:19:17.240 --> 0:19:20.359 also the public's lack of understanding of the technology as 0:19:20.720 --> 0:19:24.040 barriers to making all of this widespread. Yeah, ignorance and 0:19:24.119 --> 0:19:28.639 expense the two big barriers, and in fact that ignorance problem. 0:19:28.680 --> 0:19:30.720 I mean, it sounds like it's something simple that you 0:19:30.800 --> 0:19:32.440 just do a couple of little p s A s 0:19:32.440 --> 0:19:36.720 and people understand how the technology works, but never underestimate 0:19:37.240 --> 0:19:40.359 how we will allow ignorance to play into our major 0:19:40.400 --> 0:19:43.719 policy decisions. If you want an example of that, just 0:19:43.840 --> 0:19:45.840 take a look at how well the metric system was 0:19:45.880 --> 0:19:49.920 implemented in the United States. It's it's understandable, and maybe 0:19:49.920 --> 0:19:52.200 not about the metric systems, but it's it's understandable about 0:19:52.240 --> 0:19:55.240 about business decisions that are going to potentially cost you 0:19:55.280 --> 0:19:57.200 a lot of money. Like I can see why why 0:19:57.240 --> 0:19:59.840 companies would be a little bit shy about enacting some 0:20:00.080 --> 0:20:02.639 thing that they don't think is going to make them money. 0:20:02.760 --> 0:20:05.760 And in fact, now we'll get into why one of 0:20:05.760 --> 0:20:09.560 the big reasons why why merchants in particular might be reluctant, 0:20:09.600 --> 0:20:11.960 and part of that is that although NFC itself is 0:20:12.000 --> 0:20:15.600 a standard right, that's a standard form of radio transmission. 0:20:15.960 --> 0:20:19.800 So the basic technology upon which information is flowing is 0:20:19.840 --> 0:20:23.520 going to remain the same from one implementing one implementation 0:20:23.600 --> 0:20:28.600 to another. The actual uh software that's being used to 0:20:28.680 --> 0:20:32.680 transmit that data depends upon who it is that's creating 0:20:32.800 --> 0:20:36.439 the program or the proprietary right and there they have 0:20:36.560 --> 0:20:41.400 not classically made these systems to to work across each other. Right. 0:20:41.440 --> 0:20:44.320 So if you have one credit card company that's using 0:20:44.400 --> 0:20:47.960 one of these implementations of software and a different credit 0:20:48.000 --> 0:20:51.440 card company that uses a completely different implementation, and those 0:20:51.440 --> 0:20:55.359 two programs cannot communicate with each other, then as a vendor, 0:20:55.800 --> 0:20:58.960 you may have to choose either between two different credit 0:20:59.000 --> 0:21:02.160 card companies or you have to spend twice as much 0:21:02.240 --> 0:21:04.800 to get as many to be able to support both 0:21:04.840 --> 0:21:07.840 of them. So, because there's no standard, okay, but so 0:21:07.960 --> 0:21:11.600 there are a few different proprietary ways of using this 0:21:11.720 --> 0:21:13.919 in the States right now. Exactly. Yeah. One of the 0:21:13.960 --> 0:21:15.359 big ones are at least one of the ones that 0:21:15.480 --> 0:21:19.080 probably has the most high profile of all of them. 0:21:19.119 --> 0:21:21.320 I mean, it's not the oldest implementation, but it's one 0:21:21.359 --> 0:21:23.040 that a lot of people have heard about is Google. 0:21:23.760 --> 0:21:26.680 Google has really been behind NFC technology for a while now, 0:21:26.680 --> 0:21:29.040 a couple of years and they also have their app 0:21:29.119 --> 0:21:33.360 called Google Wallet, which is meant for both payment well 0:21:33.400 --> 0:21:36.280 not just both. It's meant for payment transfers, so that 0:21:36.320 --> 0:21:39.320 if you're buying something from a merchant that supports Google Wallet. 0:21:39.440 --> 0:21:41.960