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Speaker 1: Get in techt with Technology with text Stuff from stuff

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Speaker 1: works dot com. Hey everyone, and welcome to text Stuff.

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Speaker 1: I'm Jonathan Strickland and I'm Lauren, and today we're going

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Speaker 1: to talk about some more money matters. We had our

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Speaker 1: discussion about all of our currency, which was a lot

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Speaker 1: of fun, but it's not the only thing about money

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Speaker 1: in tech that really is an interesting subject that's come

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Speaker 1: up in discussion a lot, particularly in the United States recently. Oh,

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Speaker 1: certainly not. In fact, many ways that we exchange money

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Speaker 1: these days are really really technological. Yeah. In fact, uh,

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Speaker 1: the vast majority of the way money changes hands has

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Speaker 1: nothing to do with any sort of physical currency whatsoever. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I never actually carry cash on me. But we've never

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Speaker 1: really talked on this show about how credit cards work. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's true. And uh, and so we actually put forth

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Speaker 1: that we're going to do an episode about smart cards

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Speaker 1: and smart technology and NFC and credit cards and asked

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Speaker 1: if anyone had any other questions. We did have response Chase,

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Speaker 1: our buddy, Chase said, be sure to talk about coin.

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Speaker 1: Don't worry, Chase, we got you covered. And you you

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Speaker 1: may be thinking, but what about traditional magnetic stripe cards?

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Speaker 1: And we are totally not talking about those today. Now, well, well,

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Speaker 1: well here, here's all you need to know. Okay, there's

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Speaker 1: information that's related to the credit card account you have

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Speaker 1: that's located on that magnetic stripe. You can have a

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Speaker 1: reader that reads that information when the stripe is pushed

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Speaker 1: past it that that actually has that little magnetic field

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Speaker 1: that can generate the information necessary for the processing of

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Speaker 1: the payment. But really we wanted to talk about some

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Speaker 1: of the more advanced technologies will probably at some point

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Speaker 1: go back and actually talk about the development of that

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Speaker 1: magnetic stripe tech because we were so dependent upon it

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Speaker 1: for so long. In fact, in the United States we're

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Speaker 1: still very heavily dependent upon it. And actually that's why

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Speaker 1: we wanted to do this episode about NFC technology because

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Speaker 1: in j Nuary of some forty million US Target customers

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Speaker 1: Target the brand the store, the store um had their

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Speaker 1: credit card information stolen during a hack. And in February

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Speaker 1: the news broke that Congress and the major credit card

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Speaker 1: companies here in the States are are finally in agreement

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Speaker 1: that America should move to these smart credit cards, which

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Speaker 1: I'm sure has the rest of the world just snickering

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Speaker 1: at us, because this is technology that exists in other

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Speaker 1: places and has existed in other places for decades. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: in fact, so much so that it's become part of

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Speaker 1: of just like the general UH language. I remember watching

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Speaker 1: this little tangent here, but I remember watching an episode

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Speaker 1: of that Mitchell and web Look, which is a comedy

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Speaker 1: sketch series from the over in the UK, and at

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Speaker 1: one point there is a comedy duo vaudeville team called

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Speaker 1: uh Fish and Chip and they're breaking up. That that's

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Speaker 1: their last names are Fish and Chip. That's adorable. But

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Speaker 1: Chip breaks up to go and join up with a

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Speaker 1: guy whose last name is Pen, so it's Chip and Pen.

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Speaker 1: I had no idea that that was a thing when

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Speaker 1: I saw this pen are. Yeah, I didn't know that

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Speaker 1: Chip and pen was. That was just that's the shorthand

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Speaker 1: for this technology of a chip that's inside a credit

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Speaker 1: card and a pen a personal identification number that you

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Speaker 1: used to fully fulfill a transaction. I didn't know that.

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Speaker 1: I just was like, oh, so you're going from an

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Speaker 1: established pairing of things to something unusual, And then as

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Speaker 1: the joke continue, like no, this must be a thing.

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Speaker 1: And again it just shows how in the United States

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Speaker 1: we're way behind on this technology. Yeah, so master Card

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Speaker 1: and Visa have both set themselves a deadline of October

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Speaker 1: to roll this technology out to their customers in the US.

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Speaker 1: But but, but let's let's go back a little bit.

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Speaker 1: What exactly are smart cards? Where does this NFC? What

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Speaker 1: what is NFC? Where does all this technology come from?

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Speaker 1: An excellent question. NFC stands for near field communication, which

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Speaker 1: we've talked about on this podcast before. But you know,

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Speaker 1: it's good to have a refresher. And near field communication

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Speaker 1: is just a type of short range radio transmission. It's

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Speaker 1: it's not in itself some sort of brand new technology

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Speaker 1: that we had never thought of. It's just a very

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Speaker 1: specific implementation of radio waves. Right, It's not like not

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Speaker 1: like some brand new weird energy that glows orange in

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Speaker 1: the dark or something. Right, And what's actually special about

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Speaker 1: it is that it's extremely short range, like like ten

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Speaker 1: centimeters or less. Yeah. Yeah, ten centimeters tends to be

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Speaker 1: what people say is the maximum transmission distance for most implementations.

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Speaker 1: I think technically it can go up to around twenty

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Speaker 1: centimeters depending upon how you build it into your technology.

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Speaker 1: But for the for the applications we're thinking about, ten

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Speaker 1: centimeters makes the most sense, because you're actually talking about

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Speaker 1: exchanging information between two very small devices that can be

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Speaker 1: brought into proximity with one another. So it's not the

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Speaker 1: sort of thing you want to be able to broadcast

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Speaker 1: across a country, let alone a room, certainly, which you

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Speaker 1: is why usually we don't talk about very short distances

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Speaker 1: being special in technology, but but this is, this is

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Speaker 1: one of those rare occasions. And uh, it's it's also

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Speaker 1: good for transmitting small amounts of information. Yeah, it's not

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Speaker 1: designed to move lots of data very quickly. In fact,

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Speaker 1: the maximum speed, depending again upon the implementation, is around

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Speaker 1: a hundred six kilabits per second up to four four

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Speaker 1: killa bits per second. The killa bits per second, that's

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Speaker 1: that's not a lot right in the grand scheme of things.

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Speaker 1: If you had taught me back in the Apple two

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Speaker 1: E days, I would have thought, wow, that was fat.

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Speaker 1: You can move everything I've ever written in just a

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Speaker 1: couple of seconds. But these days, that's that's super slow.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we're talking now about people getting fiber where

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Speaker 1: they get a gigabit per second download. That's I don't

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Speaker 1: even understand what that means right now. Right now, that

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Speaker 1: just seems like a dream, although Google Fiber possibly coming

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Speaker 1: to Atlanta, uh and totally different podcasts. But anyway, Yes,

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Speaker 1: so NFC really suited for this the small amount of data,

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Speaker 1: small number of packets going between chips and uh there

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Speaker 1: are lots of different implementations of that as well. Right. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So so we mentioned that this is all sent via

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Speaker 1: a radio frequency. What frequency is that? Thirteen point fifty

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Speaker 1: six mega hurts Okay. Um. It was chosen specifically for

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Speaker 1: its suitability for for inductive coupling, which we'll get into

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Speaker 1: in a second here. But it's basically the technology that

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Speaker 1: makes all of this work. Um. And it's also pretty

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Speaker 1: resistant to environmental interference and human tissue does not readily

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Speaker 1: absorb it. Yeah, these are all very important things if

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Speaker 1: you're talking about a technology that's going to be around people. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Like we're talking about stuff that could be either that

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Speaker 1: credit card that we're going to talk about eventually, or

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Speaker 1: even a smartphone where you have a virtual credit card

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Speaker 1: stored on another device. Plus, this idea of the resistance

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Speaker 1: to environmental interference really important. If you're talking again about

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Speaker 1: something that's going to be used frequently. You don't want,

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Speaker 1: you know, if there's some sort of weird stormy weather

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Speaker 1: outside and suddenly you can't process payments. If you're an

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Speaker 1: umbrella store, that's bad news. That's very bad news. That's

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Speaker 1: a terrible business model. Yes, you should have gone with

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Speaker 1: some other payment plan. Okay. So so technically this is

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Speaker 1: an extension of r f I D technology, which is

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Speaker 1: why you might have sometimes heard uh, n f C

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Speaker 1: and r f I D being kind of equated colloquially. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's it's similar in r f I D stands for

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Speaker 1: radio frequency identification, So it's it's kind of like if

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Speaker 1: you've ever had one of those um those security badges

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Speaker 1: that you then hold up to a reader that when

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Speaker 1: it detects the security badge, it will unlock the door

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Speaker 1: for you so you can continue in. Most of those

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Speaker 1: badges are using r f I D rather than NFC technology,

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Speaker 1: although technically they could use either. I mean, some of

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Speaker 1: them probably do use n f C. It depends on

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Speaker 1: it depends on how much money and what exactly you

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Speaker 1: want to do with this kind of thing. But but

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Speaker 1: both of these technologies when you really get down to it.

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Speaker 1: Our applications of that inductive coupling stuff that we were

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Speaker 1: talking about just a minute ago um. And that's the

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Speaker 1: property of flowing electrons and magnetic fields to influence each

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Speaker 1: other um, meaning that when electrons flow through a conductive material,

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Speaker 1: they create a magnetic field. And conversely, and existing magnetic

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Speaker 1: field can create a flow of electrons in a conductive

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Speaker 1: material exactly as long as you've got a fluctuating magnetic field,

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Speaker 1: because otherwise, if you or or in this case, you're

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Speaker 1: talking about bringing something within the proximity of a magnetic

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Speaker 1: field that will cause electrons to flow. The important thing

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Speaker 1: is if you want to make that last like you

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Speaker 1: want to, and it's something that's going to be a

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Speaker 1: magnetic field that continues to induce electricity, it has to

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Speaker 1: be a fluctuating magnetic field, otherwise it'll just it will

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Speaker 1: induce electricity originally at first, and then everything kind of

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Speaker 1: balances out. So the same sort of thing with alternating current.

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Speaker 1: Actually alternating current is necessary to create that magnetic field

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Speaker 1: because or at least a fluctuating one, because otherwise balances

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Speaker 1: And yeah, you just get something that's equivalent to a

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Speaker 1: bar magnet, which would be useful for a moment and

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Speaker 1: then not useful anymore. Right, we know all of this

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Speaker 1: thanks to Michael Faraday's work way back in the eighteen thirties.

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Speaker 1: So this is not new technology technically, no, But I

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Speaker 1: should point out that Michael Faraday made all of his

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Speaker 1: purchases in cash, so just made that up alright, So yeah,

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Speaker 1: r F I D. Originally we're talking about a passive system, right,

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Speaker 1: It's not something that's actively communicating between two entities. So

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Speaker 1: in other words, you really had something that was kind

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Speaker 1: of like a detector, and then if the right sort

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Speaker 1: of chip came into the the field of the detector,

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Speaker 1: everything's cool. But you're not getting like an exchange of information, right,

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Speaker 1: And what's going on there is that if you've got

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Speaker 1: a chip in something um and by by passing that's

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Speaker 1: something near a reader that generates a magnetic field, you're

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Speaker 1: inducing the flow of electricity in the chip, thus creating

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Speaker 1: a pneumatic magnetic field which the reader can then pick up. Right.

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Speaker 1: So this is pretty simple stuff. I mean, it's not

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Speaker 1: like the chip inside whatever it is, whether it's a

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Speaker 1: key fob or a card or whatever, it's not itself,

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Speaker 1: uh connected to any sort of battery. It only gets

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Speaker 1: that electricity when it comes into contact with that magnetic

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Speaker 1: field of the reader. So, uh that you know that's passive.

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Speaker 1: It means that there's not an active amount of electricity

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Speaker 1: going through that chip. However, there are also active versions

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Speaker 1: of r F I D. Yeah, if you power that chip,

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Speaker 1: it will allow you to to a to extend the

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Speaker 1: chip to reader distance and also to store some information

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Speaker 1: on the chip for the reader to find. Right, So

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Speaker 1: in this case we're talking about something more advanced than

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Speaker 1: just a key in a lock. Now we've got something

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Speaker 1: where you could theoretically have information stored on that r

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Speaker 1: F I D chip. That is very important to allow

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Speaker 1: you to do some form of transaction, whether it's monetary

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Speaker 1: or otherwise. Right. NFC uses this same technology, but it

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Speaker 1: allows for for data transfer both ways, and basically does

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Speaker 1: this by letting the chip and the reader both have

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Speaker 1: the capacity to act as the active or the passive

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Speaker 1: partner in the transaction and they kind of switch roles

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Speaker 1: or flip flop back and forth in order to complete

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Speaker 1: any given transaction. And this is what really makes that

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Speaker 1: NFC ability. Like using it in the in the sense

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Speaker 1: of a payment makes it really useful because not only

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Speaker 1: can it allow you to pay for something, you can

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Speaker 1: have this ongoing relationship between an app on either a

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Speaker 1: credit card or in your phone or whatever whatever implementation,

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Speaker 1: there can be this ongoing communication that allows you to

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Speaker 1: do other things besides just make a payment, like apply

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Speaker 1: bonuses that you may have accrued by being a frequent

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Speaker 1: shopper at a particular place you know, or really carefully

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Speaker 1: encrypt a payment. Yes, and that will be really important

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Speaker 1: for us to talk about when we get into the

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Speaker 1: at least the perceived drawbacks of NFC. So we're talking

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Speaker 1: about lots you know this. This is just kind of

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Speaker 1: a platform, right, This is just a way of transmitting information. Again,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't necessary early mean that it's just paying. It

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Speaker 1: can be practically anything. And in fact, one of the

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Speaker 1: examples that I would hear all the time when I

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Speaker 1: was first hearing about NFC being incorporated into cell phones,

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Speaker 1: so that you would have an NFC chip in a

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Speaker 1: cell phone that you could bring to cell phones together

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Speaker 1: and exchange an electronic business card. So that way, if

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Speaker 1: I'm at a conference and everyone happens to have these phones,

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Speaker 1: we can meet with one another and do this quick exchange,

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Speaker 1: so I now have their contact information. I don't have

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Speaker 1: to keep up with lots of physical paper cards that ultimately,

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Speaker 1: you know, you're going to the washers or they're going

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Speaker 1: to go into a dusk drawer or into the garbage.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's just you know, that's that's the thing.

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Speaker 1: So that was one example, but there are a lot

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Speaker 1: of other ones too, Like, for example, maybe maybe Lauren

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Speaker 1: and I both have UH music players electronic music players

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Speaker 1: that have these this NFC technology in it, I might

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Speaker 1: be able to do. You know, Lauren's listening to some

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Speaker 1: music that I think sounds interesting, but I'm not familiar

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Speaker 1: with it, and then just by tapping the phones, she

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Speaker 1: can give me the information where I have access to

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Speaker 1: that same sort of music. This would never actually happen

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Speaker 1: because also the fact that Lauren and I listened to

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Speaker 1: totally different types of music, and so I would never

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Speaker 1: ever think anything she listened to was interesting and vice versa. Clearly. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, I mean, come on, I like Tibetan throat

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Speaker 1: screen singing. It's just it's that's my thing. I've never

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Speaker 1: listened to Tibetan thrash metal, but that's that's interesting, okay, Um,

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Speaker 1: all right, And so if you're thinking that all of

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Speaker 1: this UH near field communications r F I D stuff

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Speaker 1: sounds a lot like that Bluetooth low energy beacon stuff

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Speaker 1: that we were talking about in a recent episode. It's

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Speaker 1: it's kind of similar, but it's different in a couple

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Speaker 1: of ways. First of all, NFC and r F I

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Speaker 1: d uh with with those things, the device that contains

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Speaker 1: the chip has to be a lot closer to the

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Speaker 1: reader than with Bluetooth low energy. Right, Bluetooth you've got

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Speaker 1: like a maximum range of fifty meters, which, if you

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Speaker 1: do the math, is significantly greater than ten centimeters. It's

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Speaker 1: significantly You're indeed correct. And secondly, each chip and reader

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Speaker 1: can only interact with one thing at a time. That is,

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Speaker 1: once a transaction is started with a chip, the reader

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Speaker 1: will communicate only with that chip, and the chip only

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Speaker 1: with that reader until the transaction is complete. So NFC

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Speaker 1: isn't good for broadcasting to multiple multiple devices the way

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Speaker 1: that Bluetooth blow energy is. But this actually, in my opinion,

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Speaker 1: makes it more ideal for the kind of things like

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Speaker 1: payment process. It's more secure. Yeah, you know that you're

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Speaker 1: not accidentally paying for someone else's purchase, or you know

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Speaker 1: there's that things aren't getting yeah, if everything is set

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Speaker 1: up correctly, right, right, like First of all, the range

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Speaker 1: is so short that it's not likely that some let's

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Speaker 1: say it's a store that has multiple cash registers, unless

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Speaker 1: those cash registers are really close together and and those

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Speaker 1: reading devices are you know, practically next to each other,

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Speaker 1: which can create problems of multiplying the field and getting

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Speaker 1: everything kind of confused. Yeah, that that would be a problem,

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Speaker 1: but you know, it's fairly easy to solve. For one thing,

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Speaker 1: it's not likely that you're gonna have two devices within uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, having that ten centimeter overlap radius overlap. But

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Speaker 1: for another, because it has this one on one communication

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Speaker 1: and blocks everything else out, you don't have to necessarily

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Speaker 1: worry about their being interference from other ways either, like

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Speaker 1: someone taking out their their smartphone that has the same

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Speaker 1: sort of technology to make their purchase in their next

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Speaker 1: to you, but because of the arc of their hand

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Speaker 1: it comes into contact with that field. It really reduces

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Speaker 1: those those, um, those worst case scenarios quite a bit.

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Speaker 1: So let's talk about actual NFC credit cards. Now, again,

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Speaker 1: this is one of those things where in some countries

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Speaker 1: this is ah, this has been looked into for a while,

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Speaker 1: But let's let's talk about specifically the United States because one,

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Speaker 1: we lived there, and too, there's this new initiative for

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Speaker 1: the US to kind of move to this smart credit

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Speaker 1: card technology and to explain to our our U S

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Speaker 1: listeners what the big deal, while again all of our

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Speaker 1: friends over in Europe and Asia chuckle to themselves. Sure,

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Speaker 1: because France was really the first country to adopt the

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Speaker 1: technology for for payment related purposes. That was like what

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Speaker 1: like to three years ago in Night four? Whoa, okay, alright,

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Speaker 1: nineteen eighty four, the year after Return of the Jedi

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Speaker 1: came out, and they furthermore, are you sure that wasn't

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Speaker 1: two eighty three? They all came out three years apart. Sorry,

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Speaker 1: I didn't mean to question you. Um. Furthermore, France had

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Speaker 1: widespread chip based credit and debit systems by nineteen two,

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Speaker 1: So so we're we're technically really only fourteen or known.

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Speaker 1: That's twenty four years behind, not thirty something years. But

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Speaker 1: well that's that's something right. So again, it's it's it's

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Speaker 1: not that the United States hasn't tried this kind of

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Speaker 1: stuff out, or that we don't have companies that are

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Speaker 1: working on building this technology into their credit cards. It's

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Speaker 1: just that we don't necessarily see it spread out widely

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Speaker 1: across our entire infrastructure. Right. Uh sure. Side note, I'm

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Speaker 1: not sure if I actually said numbers correctly. I really

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Speaker 1: can't subtract on the fly, so if if you need

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Speaker 1: to write it and correct me on that one. But

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Speaker 1: but okay, So anyway, the US has indeed seen applications

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Speaker 1: of this technology before. It's not completely new, like Jonathan

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Speaker 1: was just saying, circa seven mobile, the the Gasoline Petroleum Company,

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Speaker 1: debuted a station credit card system that used an r

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Speaker 1: F I D key chain to access the user's account,

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Speaker 1: and then in two thousand five, JP Morgan Chase introduced

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Speaker 1: a card a credit card UH with a proprietary r

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Speaker 1: F I D system called blink right, and then Visa

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Speaker 1: and master Card have both been looking into it as well.

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Speaker 1: Moving into the two thousand's, we've seen that technology come up,

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Speaker 1: but again, not so useful if if you were kind

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Speaker 1: of a homebody. Right. Well, the problem is that this

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Speaker 1: technology is terrific, but it only works if stores are

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Speaker 1: set up with the infrastructure to allow you to use it.

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Speaker 1: So although they were pretty great for Americans who traveled

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Speaker 1: to other countries, there weren't that many places that you

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Speaker 1: could use them in the US, and in fact, I

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Speaker 1: know that there are tourists who come to the United

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Speaker 1: States who are used to this system and back in

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Speaker 1: Europe or back in Asia who then I wonder why

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Speaker 1: you have to take their credit card in order to

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Speaker 1: make a payment at say a restaurant or you know,

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Speaker 1: they the whole swiping thing is one of those things

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Speaker 1: that oh, how how how quaint and insecure. But we'll

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Speaker 1: get into that too, but yeah, it was. It's one

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Speaker 1: of those things where I know there are people who

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Speaker 1: come over to the United States are kind of I mean,

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Speaker 1: the US has this this at least this reputation of

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Speaker 1: being really technologically advanced and forward thinking and all of

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Speaker 1: those kind of things, but when you get to certain industries,

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Speaker 1: we really lag behind. In fact, we lag behind in

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Speaker 1: a lot of ways. But but you know, within within

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Speaker 1: the United States, we don't we don't tend to think

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Speaker 1: that way because we're kind of insulated and we aren't

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Speaker 1: living in this own little tech tech bubble where we

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Speaker 1: think we've got all the best stuff. Guys, we don't

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Speaker 1: have the best stuff. We do not we had the

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Speaker 1: best stuff in a long time. Merchants and credit card

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Speaker 1: companies both have cited the cost of the infrastructure, and

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Speaker 1: also the public's lack of understanding of the technology as

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Speaker 1: barriers to making all of this widespread. Yeah, ignorance and

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Speaker 1: expense the two big barriers, and in fact that ignorance problem.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it sounds like it's something simple that you

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Speaker 1: just do a couple of little p s A s

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Speaker 1: and people understand how the technology works, but never underestimate

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Speaker 1: how we will allow ignorance to play into our major

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Speaker 1: policy decisions. If you want an example of that, just

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Speaker 1: take a look at how well the metric system was

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Speaker 1: implemented in the United States. It's it's understandable, and maybe

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Speaker 1: not about the metric systems, but it's it's understandable about

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Speaker 1: about business decisions that are going to potentially cost you

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Speaker 1: a lot of money. Like I can see why why

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Speaker 1: companies would be a little bit shy about enacting some

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Speaker 1: thing that they don't think is going to make them money.

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Speaker 1: And in fact, now we'll get into why one of

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Speaker 1: the big reasons why why merchants in particular might be reluctant,

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Speaker 1: and part of that is that although NFC itself is

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Speaker 1: a standard right, that's a standard form of radio transmission.

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Speaker 1: So the basic technology upon which information is flowing is

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Speaker 1: going to remain the same from one implementing one implementation

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Speaker 1: to another. The actual uh software that's being used to

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Speaker 1: transmit that data depends upon who it is that's creating

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Speaker 1: the program or the proprietary right and there they have

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Speaker 1: not classically made these systems to to work across each other. Right.

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Speaker 1: So if you have one credit card company that's using

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Speaker 1: one of these implementations of software and a different credit

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Speaker 1: card company that uses a completely different implementation, and those

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Speaker 1: two programs cannot communicate with each other, then as a vendor,

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Speaker 1: you may have to choose either between two different credit

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Speaker 1: card companies or you have to spend twice as much

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Speaker 1: to get as many to be able to support both

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Speaker 1: of them. So, because there's no standard, okay, but so

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Speaker 1: there are a few different proprietary ways of using this

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Speaker 1: in the States right now. Exactly. Yeah. One of the

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Speaker 1: big ones are at least one of the ones that

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Speaker 1: probably has the most high profile of all of them.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's not the oldest implementation, but it's one

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Speaker 1: that a lot of people have heard about is Google.

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Speaker 1: Google has really been behind NFC technology for a while now,

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Speaker 1: a couple of years and they also have their app

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Speaker 1: called Google Wallet, which is meant for both payment well

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Speaker 1: not just both. It's meant for payment transfers, so that

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Speaker 1: if you're buying something from a merchant that supports Google Wallet.

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Speaker 1: It's also meant to be able to give you access

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Speaker 1: to special deals, like if someone's got a sale. It

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Speaker 1: can give you a notification. If it's some vendor that

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Speaker 1: you've gone to several times, it might let you know

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Speaker 1: about any specials that are running. Uh. It can also

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Speaker 1: incorporate things like customer loyalty programs. So let's say that

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Speaker 1: I use it for my local coffee shop and the

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Speaker 1: tenth cup of coffee I get a freak cup. I

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Speaker 1: don't have to keep track of a card that has

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Speaker 1: to be punched. It's all. It's all. Yeah, it's tracked

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Speaker 1: on the app itself. UM So that's a that's a

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Speaker 1: big one that's got a lot of press recently. And

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Speaker 1: you know, I have a smartphone that has an NFC chip,

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Speaker 1: I have a Google Wallet account. I have never used

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Speaker 1: that to make I've never seen a vendor nearby that

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Speaker 1: used it. I know there are some because if I

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Speaker 1: go on their website and I do a search, a

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Speaker 1: few of them are in this area, this area being

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Speaker 1: Buckhead in Atlanta, that's where our office is, and I

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Speaker 1: know there are a few that accept it. I have

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Speaker 1: never gone to any of them to try it out,

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Speaker 1: So I mean it's not that I'm afraid of technology.

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Speaker 1: I just don't have access to it. Yeah, I haven't either.

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Speaker 1: So then we've got MasterCard. They have a a app

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Speaker 1: called UH, or at least a technology called pay Pass,

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Speaker 1: which is a tap to pay method where you use

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Speaker 1: a physical card that has a passive n FC chip

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Speaker 1: in it. So it's kind of similar to those passive

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Speaker 1: r F I D chips we talked about earlier. It

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Speaker 1: doesn't require a power supply, right, which is important. I mean,

431
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:03,199
Speaker 1: you've got a physical credit card, you don't have a

432
00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:06,600
Speaker 1: lot of space to put a battery there, so UH

433
00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:09,040
Speaker 1: you end up using the inductive coupling to get this

434
00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:12,560
Speaker 1: payment terminal to process the information UM and you can

435
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:15,439
Speaker 1: also have an electronic version of it that's stored as

436
00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:17,960
Speaker 1: an app on a smartphone that has enough C chip

437
00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:21,480
Speaker 1: and that one is compatible with Google Wallet, which, as

438
00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:24,320
Speaker 1: we said before, is maybe not actually useful. Yeah, yeah,

439
00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:26,679
Speaker 1: I mean it all depends on you, Like if you

440
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:29,879
Speaker 1: live in San Francisco. There's probably every single place around

441
00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:33,639
Speaker 1: you that's that supports it, but here in Atlanta, you know. So. Um.

442
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:36,800
Speaker 1: Another one is one that's done by American Express, a

443
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:39,920
Speaker 1: T and T, T Mobile and Verizon. Uh. This one,

444
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:44,640
Speaker 1: for all you archer fans is uh isis UH. That's

445
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:46,919
Speaker 1: actually the name of it, isis I s I S.

446
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:50,760
Speaker 1: It promotes itself as the industry's most widely accepted mobile wallet,

447
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:53,480
Speaker 1: So it's very similar to Google Wallet, has those same

448
00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:57,000
Speaker 1: kind of features, but it's a different proprietary approach. So

449
00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:00,680
Speaker 1: again ISIS and Google Wallet. If it's like a Google

450
00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:04,399
Speaker 1: Wallet using that MasterCard pay pass, they don't necessarily work

451
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,479
Speaker 1: on the same system. So if you have a receiver

452
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:09,640
Speaker 1: as a vendor, you may only be able to accept

453
00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:12,720
Speaker 1: one but not the other, which we'll talk a little

454
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:15,399
Speaker 1: bit more about in our our problems with n f

455
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:18,560
Speaker 1: C section. And then of these companies that we've talked about,

456
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:20,719
Speaker 1: it seems like Samsung and Visa have been left out

457
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:23,960
Speaker 1: in the cold. Yeah, you got Samsung Wallet, which is

458
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:27,199
Speaker 1: a partnership between Samsung and Visa, But this one was

459
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:31,200
Speaker 1: kind of a a head scratcher because they announced this

460
00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:34,560
Speaker 1: partnership in two thousand thirteen at the Mobile the World

461
00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 1: Mobile Congress, which the two fourteen one is happening as

462
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:42,159
Speaker 1: we're recording this podcast. But the two thirteen one they

463
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:44,480
Speaker 1: announced this partnership. They said, Oh, here's what we're gonna do.

464
00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:45,919
Speaker 1: It's gonna be this big thing. It's going to be

465
00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:49,600
Speaker 1: our approach to this NFC payment processing and all the

466
00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:52,199
Speaker 1: sort of wallet features you would expect. And then they

467
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:56,120
Speaker 1: started announcing the upcoming Samsung phones which did not support

468
00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:59,480
Speaker 1: Samsung Wallet. So you had this partnership in this technology,

469
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:02,480
Speaker 1: but you didn't have the actual implementation available for anyone

470
00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:05,440
Speaker 1: to purchase in the in the flagship products that were

471
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:07,120
Speaker 1: coming out. I'm sure it was a it was a

472
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:10,600
Speaker 1: just missed dovetail kind of situation wherein they couldn't quite

473
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:13,200
Speaker 1: make it go. Yeah. I mean, it might have even

474
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:15,359
Speaker 1: been one of those things where you try and factor

475
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:18,400
Speaker 1: in the price of including another chip in your phone

476
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 1: because that's going to make it more. Sung is always

477
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:23,240
Speaker 1: very priced Savage, Oh yeah, yeah, Well, for one thing,

478
00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:26,600
Speaker 1: they're the company that makes a product for every price

479
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:29,159
Speaker 1: point and every use case. I mean, I watched a

480
00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:32,960
Speaker 1: video recently that showed a lineup of all the different

481
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:36,080
Speaker 1: Samsung products, and at one point they they joked that

482
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 1: the video editor had died trying to put it together

483
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:40,880
Speaker 1: because it was just too many. That was a scene

484
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:44,440
Speaker 1: Net video by the way, Tales of Adventure or something

485
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 1: along those lines. Great series. You should check it out.

486
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:49,159
Speaker 1: But we've got a lot more to talk about with

487
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:52,919
Speaker 1: this technology, including those pros and cons, and before we

488
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:55,000
Speaker 1: get to that, I think we should take a quick

489
00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:59,720
Speaker 1: break to thank our sponsor. Alright, so we've kind of

490
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:02,800
Speaker 1: hit tod that some of the challenges of this whole

491
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:06,520
Speaker 1: NFC approach, particularly here in the United States. Obviously it's

492
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:09,480
Speaker 1: already implemented in other parts of the world, so why

493
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 1: aren't we seeing it everywhere? One of the big reasons,

494
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,640
Speaker 1: Lauren you brought it up it is the fact that

495
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:20,040
Speaker 1: to build up infrastructure means investing. It's it costs money,

496
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:22,280
Speaker 1: and especially when you've still got all of these competing

497
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:25,960
Speaker 1: technologies working, it's it's it doesn't make any sense for

498
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,360
Speaker 1: anyone to build that infrastructure, right if there were one

499
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:30,879
Speaker 1: of these that came out as the dominant one, and

500
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:33,719
Speaker 1: therefore it kind of just gravitates to that becoming a

501
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:37,240
Speaker 1: standard that would be a lot easier on the merchant's

502
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:40,160
Speaker 1: end of things, because you would just invest in whatever

503
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:44,320
Speaker 1: technology one out. But in these early days, it's really

504
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 1: hard to say which one is going to be the

505
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 1: most important, and in fact, it may change from vendor

506
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 1: to vendor. You might do some market research of your own,

507
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:56,280
Speaker 1: just look at past transactions that you have that you've

508
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:59,119
Speaker 1: managed over the time that you've been a merchant, and

509
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:02,720
Speaker 1: you might see perhaps your business, for some reason or another,

510
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 1: you just process more payments through American Express, which means

511
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:08,439
Speaker 1: you would want to go with that isis approach, right,

512
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:11,560
Speaker 1: So it makes more sense to you just because the

513
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:13,640
Speaker 1: vast majority of the people who come into your store

514
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:16,720
Speaker 1: are using American Express cards. But if they're all using

515
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:20,119
Speaker 1: Visa cards, or they're all using MasterCard, or there's a

516
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:23,760
Speaker 1: real strong mix in there, your decisions start getting really

517
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:27,679
Speaker 1: murky and complicated, and you may end up investing in

518
00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:31,359
Speaker 1: an infrastructure that ultimately fails to take off because some

519
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 1: other technology becomes dominant. Well, then you've got a real

520
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:38,200
Speaker 1: problem on your hands, right, You've spent all this money

521
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:41,400
Speaker 1: with no payoff, absolutely, and and that's that's even assuming

522
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 1: that people are using these NFC cards a lot of

523
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:48,320
Speaker 1: people still have meganetic stripes, and so therefore it's it's

524
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 1: a dual problem. You know, if if you can't get

525
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:52,959
Speaker 1: customers onto these new cards, then they can't use your

526
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 1: system and no one it's just yeah, it's it's kind

527
00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:59,320
Speaker 1: of us catch twenty two's right. So you know, you

528
00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 1: you want there to be an existing base of customers

529
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:05,120
Speaker 1: out there who have this technology so that your investment

530
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:09,720
Speaker 1: makes sense. But the customers don't really want this technology

531
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:13,120
Speaker 1: unless there's ways to use it. So yeah, it's this

532
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:15,640
Speaker 1: this weird problem where you have to have the solution

533
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:17,840
Speaker 1: to have the problem in order to solve the other half,

534
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:21,000
Speaker 1: and it's ways. Yeah, And one of those barriers to

535
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 1: getting customers to sign up for these for these NFC

536
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 1: cards is the security question, right, because if you're talking

537
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:32,719
Speaker 1: about transmitting information by radio already you have people wondering

538
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:36,119
Speaker 1: about the possibility of eavesdroppers, someone carrying some sort of

539
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 1: device that can read off the information on a chip.

540
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 1: A couple of different things to keep in mind here. One,

541
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 1: if you're talking about an active NFC chip, something that's

542
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 1: actually drawing power from something like a smartphone, it's really

543
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:51,640
Speaker 1: only gonna be broadcasting when you tell it to broadcast,

544
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:55,760
Speaker 1: so when you're using the app to actually make a purchase, unless,

545
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:58,400
Speaker 1: of course, your smartphone itself has been hacked in some way,

546
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:03,600
Speaker 1: in which case you've got multiple problems, not just NFC absolutely, uh.

547
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 1: But you know, since it is a radio communication, once

548
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 1: that once that transmission is active, it can technically be

549
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 1: picked up from up to like ten meters that's about

550
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 1: thirty three ft away, right, Yeah, so there is that concern. However,

551
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 1: one way to get around this concern is to use

552
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:22,840
Speaker 1: our beloved friend encryption and encryption. I mean, this is

553
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 1: it's obviously going to be important for any company that

554
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:31,080
Speaker 1: wants to utilize NFC transmissions because if you don't show

555
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:34,680
Speaker 1: that you value the safety the financial safety of your customers,

556
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 1: you're not going to have customers for very long. So

557
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:42,400
Speaker 1: this is actually pretty sophisticated stuff, and there's encryption along

558
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 1: multiple steps, so it's not like it's just a simple

559
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:48,880
Speaker 1: it's not like a transposition cipher where A is B

560
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:51,160
Speaker 1: and B A C and C s D. They'll never

561
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:55,160
Speaker 1: figure that out, right, right, When when an NFC card

562
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:57,479
Speaker 1: and a card reader come into contact with each other,

563
00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:00,680
Speaker 1: and there's encryption levels involved. There's there's this whole series

564
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 1: of sign countersign kind of exchanges that are going to

565
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:08,600
Speaker 1: verify that that each bit is dealing with a verified bit. Right,

566
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:10,720
Speaker 1: So if you were to eavesdrop on that, all you

567
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 1: would get is the pop product of this conversation, which

568
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:17,200
Speaker 1: would just be gobbledegook from your perspective. You wouldn't have

569
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:20,240
Speaker 1: the description key exactly, and nobody has the key in

570
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:22,920
Speaker 1: this situation. I mean, it's it's a it's a temporary,

571
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 1: one time use kind of thing. And again, this technology

572
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 1: is primed to only talk to one device at a

573
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 1: single time, so that cuts that down quite significantly. Also,

574
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 1: when you look at it, you know, even though you think, well,

575
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:39,480
Speaker 1: this sounds like there's some security issues, it's actually safer

576
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:44,120
Speaker 1: than our old magnetic stripe technology. Right, So even if

577
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:47,080
Speaker 1: you feel like this has got its own kind of drawbacks,

578
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:50,200
Speaker 1: it has fewer drawbacks than the stuff we're depending on

579
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:52,840
Speaker 1: right now. Oh. Absolutely, the data on a on a

580
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:56,200
Speaker 1: magnetic stripe can be read, written, deleted, or changed with

581
00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 1: pretty common equipment. Yea. This is a reason why, uh,

582
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 1: when I stay at a hotel that uses a magnetic

583
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 1: stripe key, I tend to keep the key because you

584
00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 1: never know what's actually been encoded on that key. There

585
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:11,440
Speaker 1: could be I mean some places use the key as

586
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:13,920
Speaker 1: also a form of payment, where you can buy stuff

587
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 1: at a restaurant that's in the hotel, or or a

588
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:19,840
Speaker 1: shop in the hotel. It's a general identification tool. Share. Yeah,

589
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 1: so I'll keep those keys and then shread them at home.

590
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:27,080
Speaker 1: I really do. That's smarter than I am. So and

591
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:30,120
Speaker 1: I'm not known as a privacy nut. I mean, I'm

592
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 1: an advocate, but I don't. I don't get like super

593
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:35,160
Speaker 1: paranoid unless I happen to be around someone like Darren Kitchen,

594
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:38,560
Speaker 1: because the dude is a brilliant hacker, nice guy. I

595
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:41,080
Speaker 1: just I just feel like everything I ever said on

596
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 1: the Internet is in his hand anytime I happened to

597
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:46,600
Speaker 1: be near him. But other than that, I'm pretty easy going.

598
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 1: But this is one of those steps I actually do take.

599
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 1: That's that's not paranoia. That's intelligent different. It's not paranoid

600
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:56,360
Speaker 1: if they're really out to get you. Uh. And so, Also,

601
00:31:56,440 --> 00:32:00,120
Speaker 1: like we said, these transactions, in every implementation I I've

602
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:02,240
Speaker 1: seen where you're using it to make a payment, it

603
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:06,200
Speaker 1: requires that you enter a pin as well. A personal identification,

604
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 1: right instead of a signature. Right. So when I would

605
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:11,840
Speaker 1: make a payment at that coffee shop, in order for

606
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 1: that payment to go through, I would first have to

607
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:15,760
Speaker 1: input whatever the PIN is, you know, however long that

608
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 1: might be. It's usually a four digit number, that's what

609
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 1: we're used to in the United States. Then that would

610
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 1: allow the transaction to continue. So in other words, if

611
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 1: you lost your smartphone and someone picked it up, you

612
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:29,600
Speaker 1: wouldn't have to worry about them automatically being able to

613
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:32,840
Speaker 1: use that smartphone to go on a spending spree, right right.

614
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:36,640
Speaker 1: I honestly, magnetic stripes kind of terrify me. They. I recently,

615
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 1: when I was out to dinner with a friend, we

616
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:41,600
Speaker 1: we accidentally exchanged credit cards. When we got the bill back,

617
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:45,959
Speaker 1: and I used his card for two days before I

618
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:49,840
Speaker 1: noticed that it was his card with no problems. Yeah,

619
00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:53,000
Speaker 1: the security measures in the United States are a little

620
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:55,080
Speaker 1: on the lax side, depending upon where you go. Some

621
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:57,680
Speaker 1: places are really good about it, like, for inst instance,

622
00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 1: I have on my card ask for I D written

623
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:02,400
Speaker 1: on the back rather than my signature, which is a

624
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:05,520
Speaker 1: terrific way of cutting down at least on that kind

625
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 1: of kind of problem. So whenever anyone apologizes but asks

626
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 1: for my idea, I tell them, do not apologize. That's

627
00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 1: what I want. I want that extra level. The problem

628
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:17,560
Speaker 1: is it just doesn't happen as frequently is should but

629
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:20,000
Speaker 1: at any rate. So now that kind of brings us

630
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:22,440
Speaker 1: Chase one of us to talk about coin. So we

631
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:26,480
Speaker 1: we covered the NFC thing. Coin is not and NFC

632
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 1: enabled credit card. It's actually a different implementation of electronic

633
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:35,760
Speaker 1: credit cards, and it's a really nifty idea and the

634
00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:39,480
Speaker 1: implementation is something that I've never seen before, and I

635
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:41,560
Speaker 1: find it kind of exciting and I like the I

636
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:43,360
Speaker 1: like the notion of it. But it also has some

637
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:46,080
Speaker 1: drawbacks that we're going to talk about. Sure, But but

638
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 1: it is but it is really cool. I got so

639
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:50,040
Speaker 1: excited when I saw it. So it's it's the same

640
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:53,440
Speaker 1: size and shape as a standard credit card, and it's

641
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:56,960
Speaker 1: a it's it's a crowd funded effort. This is this

642
00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:59,200
Speaker 1: was a startup that got some of its funding at

643
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:04,880
Speaker 1: least by asking people to make contributions to their company.

644
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:07,640
Speaker 1: So what exactly is it? Well, it's build as a

645
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:11,640
Speaker 1: device that can replace every type of credit card, loyalty card,

646
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:15,200
Speaker 1: gift card, and membership card all in one go. So

647
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:18,279
Speaker 1: in other words, instead of having to carry ten or

648
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:21,360
Speaker 1: fifteen different types of cards, depending upon the kind of

649
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:23,879
Speaker 1: person you are, you would only have to have one.

650
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:27,440
Speaker 1: And it works like this because it's it's actually a

651
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 1: computer in a card. Um that magnetic stripe on it

652
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:33,680
Speaker 1: is readwriteable, right, So not it's not. You know, a

653
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:37,719
Speaker 1: typical magnetic stripe on a credit card is read only you.

654
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:42,799
Speaker 1: You aren't. Hypothetically, you're not supposed to overwrite it. Uh,

655
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:45,839
Speaker 1: there's nothing that's given to you in the credit card

656
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:48,239
Speaker 1: that allows you to overwrite it. There are technologies that

657
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:51,600
Speaker 1: where you could overwrite the information on your magnetic strip,

658
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:54,160
Speaker 1: but it's meant to be read, right, Yeah, don't do that.

659
00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:57,399
Speaker 1: By the way, it's almost certainly illegal where you are.

660
00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:00,480
Speaker 1: But then you rate. This is designed so that it

661
00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:04,840
Speaker 1: can on the fly change that magnetic strip to mimic

662
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:08,359
Speaker 1: whatever card you would be using. So, for one thing,

663
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:10,920
Speaker 1: whatever card you're using would need to have a magnetic

664
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:14,920
Speaker 1: stripe as part of its way of being read by

665
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:17,160
Speaker 1: whatever vendor. So if you have a loyalty card that's

666
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:20,160
Speaker 1: punched card, that's not necessarily gonna you don't want to

667
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:23,080
Speaker 1: punch a hole in your coin smart card, that would be.

668
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 1: But if it has some sort of counterpart where there's

669
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:31,760
Speaker 1: a magnetic strip or that they just implement that into

670
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:34,920
Speaker 1: their their vendor system, then you could use it as

671
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:38,319
Speaker 1: a loyalty card or whatever. U. So yeah, this this

672
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:42,600
Speaker 1: little computer on the fly can change the programming on

673
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 1: that magnetic stripe to be whichever card you need. So

674
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:50,040
Speaker 1: the big advantage from the merchant's side of this is

675
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:52,560
Speaker 1: that they don't have to install one of those crazy

676
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 1: readers that NFC or r F I D would need, right,

677
00:35:56,160 --> 00:36:00,400
Speaker 1: They could just use their their established credit card reading

678
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:04,560
Speaker 1: equipment to do this. Because that magnetic strikes the same

679
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:07,680
Speaker 1: thing on the coin card as it would be if

680
00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 1: you were using the actual credit card that it's mimicking.

681
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:13,279
Speaker 1: So when you you swipe it, it's just going to

682
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:17,080
Speaker 1: read as if it were your Visa or MasterCard or whatever. Right,

683
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:19,279
Speaker 1: And the advantage to you is that you can you

684
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:22,960
Speaker 1: can enter all of your systems of payment and loyalty

685
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:27,279
Speaker 1: that use these magnetic stripes into into the app. Yeah. Yeah,

686
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 1: So the way this would work is you pair the

687
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:33,080
Speaker 1: coin smart card with something like a smart phone that

688
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:35,960
Speaker 1: that's running this coin app on it and you also

689
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:40,080
Speaker 1: get a little a little um uh peripheral that plugs

690
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:41,720
Speaker 1: into your phone. It's kind of like one of those

691
00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:45,959
Speaker 1: square card readers that you've seen that that merchants often

692
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:48,200
Speaker 1: will use, where it's hooked up to an iPhone. You

693
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:51,680
Speaker 1: just swipe a card through the square things. Yeah, because

694
00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:54,920
Speaker 1: it turns anyone, it's like anyone into a mobile payment

695
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:57,560
Speaker 1: processing system and you can have I mean for people

696
00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:00,200
Speaker 1: who run things like they go to a convinced and

697
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:02,759
Speaker 1: they have a booth set up at a convention for

698
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:06,200
Speaker 1: them to sell merchandise to people. This is great because

699
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:09,640
Speaker 1: it has such a low barrier of entry. The cost

700
00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:12,600
Speaker 1: is really low. Yeah, it's it's essentially free, and then

701
00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:17,160
Speaker 1: you pay a certain percentage of each of each swipe

702
00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:20,440
Speaker 1: of transaction. So so it's great anyway. But this technology

703
00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:22,600
Speaker 1: works very much the same way. It's got a little

704
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:27,440
Speaker 1: swipe reader that you connect to your phone, and as

705
00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:30,279
Speaker 1: you swipe a card, it stores all that information that's

706
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:33,719
Speaker 1: in that magnetic stripe onto the app and then relays

707
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:36,520
Speaker 1: that to the coin smart card, so that the coin

708
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:40,160
Speaker 1: smart card is able to mimic that particular credit card

709
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:42,959
Speaker 1: or loyalty card or whatever it is. Uh. You're also

710
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:45,319
Speaker 1: supposed to take a picture of that card, so that

711
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:47,680
Speaker 1: way you will be able to cycle through the cards

712
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:50,120
Speaker 1: properly when you're using it and remember which is which. Yeah,

713
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:51,600
Speaker 1: because if you know, if you have been to have

714
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:55,200
Speaker 1: a check card and a credit card, and it's really

715
00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:58,960
Speaker 1: important for you to use the right one. Yeah, I've

716
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:01,960
Speaker 1: known some people who remember as entire credit card numbers

717
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:04,680
Speaker 1: of their own. But I know, yeah, I know folks

718
00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:07,840
Speaker 1: who make enough purchases online where they've committed all of

719
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:10,760
Speaker 1: the cards they have to memory. I don't do that frequently.

720
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 1: I have a hard time with like my phone number

721
00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:17,080
Speaker 1: and my social Security number. I had a hard time

722
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:20,080
Speaker 1: with the three digit security code that's on the back

723
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:23,480
Speaker 1: of your card, which every single card I've owned, that

724
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:26,360
Speaker 1: number has worn off within like three weeks of getting

725
00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:29,840
Speaker 1: the card. So I have to commit this three digit

726
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:33,920
Speaker 1: number to memory, which shouldn't be a problem, but I

727
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:35,960
Speaker 1: got a lot of brain cells that are dedicated to

728
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:40,200
Speaker 1: firefly trivia, so apparently a three digit number is a

729
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:44,200
Speaker 1: herculean task for me to remember at any rate. So

730
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:46,759
Speaker 1: you swipe all your cards, you differentiate them. Your coin

731
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:49,719
Speaker 1: smart card can then represent any of those cards, so

732
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 1: you can then put those those physical cards simply safe. Um,

733
00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:57,160
Speaker 1: keeping in mind that there are some some instances where

734
00:38:57,600 --> 00:38:59,360
Speaker 1: you might run into some trouble. I'll get into that

735
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:02,000
Speaker 1: when we get into some of the cons sure, but

736
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:04,720
Speaker 1: so okay, So so coin interacts with your cell phone

737
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:08,600
Speaker 1: through Bluetooth low energy. It's so good that we already

738
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:10,359
Speaker 1: did that podcast, so we don't have to go into

739
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:13,400
Speaker 1: what this is. But it does mean that the smart

740
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:15,880
Speaker 1: card and your app can communicate up to a fifty

741
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:18,400
Speaker 1: meters away from each other or or thereabouts. That's like

742
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 1: the ideal maximum range. Uh So this actually allows you

743
00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:24,799
Speaker 1: to have some cool features built into that smart card

744
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:27,799
Speaker 1: a right. One of its security features is that if

745
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:30,719
Speaker 1: your your coin card gets out of range, out of

746
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:34,000
Speaker 1: that fifty ish meter Bluetooth loow energy range of your phone,

747
00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:36,040
Speaker 1: your phone will send you a little alert saying like, hey,

748
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:38,360
Speaker 1: you might have left your card somewhere. Yeah, which I

749
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:43,040
Speaker 1: have done a few times at restaurants. So this would

750
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:46,000
Speaker 1: actually be that little bit of security where if someone

751
00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:48,920
Speaker 1: took your wallet but you still had your phone, then

752
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:50,640
Speaker 1: you would get an alert. So you knew that you

753
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:54,200
Speaker 1: would know, maybe faster than normal, that you've been pickpocketed

754
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:57,799
Speaker 1: or if you're just happen to be careless occasionally, you know,

755
00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:00,160
Speaker 1: once in a blue moon, then it would all to you.

756
00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:02,080
Speaker 1: If you had left your card behind, you can immediately

757
00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:05,319
Speaker 1: go back and reclaim your card, which was pretty cool.

758
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 1: It's designed to be really energy efficient. That bluetooth low

759
00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:11,640
Speaker 1: energy stuff is pretty cool. So the battery in the

760
00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:14,200
Speaker 1: card should last a good couple of years, and then

761
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:16,560
Speaker 1: after it's out, you just replace it the way that

762
00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:19,960
Speaker 1: you would replace any other magnetic stripe card exactly. And

763
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:22,520
Speaker 1: that's another thing is that you know that magnetic stripe stuff,

764
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:25,920
Speaker 1: that that material can wear down after lots, especially if

765
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:29,359
Speaker 1: you happen to be a frequent shopper. Um So in

766
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:31,800
Speaker 1: that sense, you would need to replace the card anyway

767
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:35,040
Speaker 1: because it would actually physically wear down. But the battery itself,

768
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:37,560
Speaker 1: you don't recharge it, right, there's no you don't plug

769
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:39,439
Speaker 1: your smart card in at the end of the day.

770
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:41,799
Speaker 1: It will actually hold that charge for two years. Okay,

771
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:44,360
Speaker 1: But so this is all really cool, but it sounds

772
00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:46,640
Speaker 1: to me like it's not going to solve this problem

773
00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:52,680
Speaker 1: of magnetic stripe card information being pretty insecure compared with NFC. Yeah, yeah, exactly,

774
00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:55,200
Speaker 1: if you happen to have a device that can read

775
00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:59,520
Speaker 1: a magnetic stripe. Well, worst case scenario, let's say that

776
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:04,359
Speaker 1: some on some um person working at a a any

777
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:08,200
Speaker 1: kind of merchant, who has decided they're going to set

778
00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:11,440
Speaker 1: out on a life of crime, and they have invested

779
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 1: in a magnetic card reader where they can swipe and

780
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:17,960
Speaker 1: store information. Let's say that they've got ahold of that,

781
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:21,040
Speaker 1: and they get ahold of your card. Maybe you've handed

782
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:23,120
Speaker 1: it over for a purchase and you think you're just

783
00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:26,040
Speaker 1: making a regular purchase. Meanwhile they are cycling through every

784
00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:28,640
Speaker 1: single card you have and reading it. Not only would

785
00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:30,839
Speaker 1: they have access to whatever card you were using at

786
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:35,640
Speaker 1: the time, they might theoretically be able to access everything.

787
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:38,640
Speaker 1: Now they're they're ways of getting around this with the app,

788
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:41,160
Speaker 1: so that if you cycle from one card to the next,

789
00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:44,520
Speaker 1: you have to agree to it. So in that case,

790
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:46,800
Speaker 1: the worst case scenario is they just get access to

791
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:49,080
Speaker 1: whatever card you're using at the time for that transaction,

792
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:53,200
Speaker 1: as opposed to every card you own. So better, Yeah,

793
00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:56,120
Speaker 1: it's better. It's better. It's way better than suddenly saying, oh,

794
00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:59,120
Speaker 1: my Visa card was lifted and my Master card, my

795
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:01,800
Speaker 1: American Express card and I no longer have nine cups

796
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:04,880
Speaker 1: of coffee at my favorite local coffee right. Apparently I

797
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:07,880
Speaker 1: made a purchase of fifty seven cups of coffee today,

798
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:10,160
Speaker 1: don't have any memory of that, possibly because of the

799
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:13,640
Speaker 1: caffeine affecting my brain, or more likely I have been hacked.

800
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:18,759
Speaker 1: So yeah, there's that issue. Also, um, you know, they

801
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:22,000
Speaker 1: could store a lot more information on them than a

802
00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:25,280
Speaker 1: credit card would typically have on it. So in theory,

803
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:28,520
Speaker 1: if someone were able to get access to maybe the

804
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:30,880
Speaker 1: worst case, they get access to both your phone or

805
00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:32,960
Speaker 1: whatever device you happen to have paired with your card

806
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:35,400
Speaker 1: and the card itself, they get to get access to

807
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:39,240
Speaker 1: lots of personal data, so that would be an issue too. Also,

808
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:42,560
Speaker 1: I do want to put in that magnetic stripe cards

809
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:45,840
Speaker 1: and and computerized magnetic magnetic stripe cards. I'm going to

810
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:47,400
Speaker 1: figure out how to say that by the end of

811
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:51,320
Speaker 1: this podcast. I swear like coin are not the only

812
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:53,080
Speaker 1: things that you can put a whole bunch of different

813
00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:56,440
Speaker 1: information on. NFC chips are capable of holding multiple kinds

814
00:42:56,480 --> 00:42:59,520
Speaker 1: of all kinds of info. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. It

815
00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:02,879
Speaker 1: doesn't have to just be uh financial oriented or even

816
00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:05,479
Speaker 1: how many times you've bought that cup of coffee. Yeah,

817
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:07,680
Speaker 1: in Europe they're they're used as patient I D cards

818
00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:11,160
Speaker 1: that store a certain amount of medical information on them. Right. Yeah,

819
00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:15,080
Speaker 1: So I mean the convenience feature I totally understand, right,

820
00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:17,800
Speaker 1: Especially if you are someone who has lots of different cards,

821
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:21,960
Speaker 1: the coin approach makes a lot of sense from that respect. Personally,

822
00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:24,800
Speaker 1: I don't actually carry a lot of different credit cards,

823
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:27,120
Speaker 1: so for this, I would think it was a really

824
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:30,239
Speaker 1: cool technology, but it wouldn't be terribly useful for me.

825
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:33,239
Speaker 1: The cards that I do carry I want to keep

826
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:36,399
Speaker 1: very very separate and not have any chance that would

827
00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:39,200
Speaker 1: excellently use one that rather than the other. Um. But

828
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:42,120
Speaker 1: I could see how this could be really important for

829
00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:45,240
Speaker 1: someone who has multiple cards that they're constantly magic, particularly

830
00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:47,680
Speaker 1: if you're one of those people who have that that

831
00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:50,080
Speaker 1: you know, guys, you know what I'm talking about where

832
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:53,759
Speaker 1: you can't sit upright because your wallet is so thick

833
00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:57,359
Speaker 1: that you're always kilted at an angle. Um. You know,

834
00:43:57,520 --> 00:43:59,880
Speaker 1: I feel you. I used to be you, but I

835
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:02,759
Speaker 1: I've managed to I did. I got rid of a

836
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:06,160
Speaker 1: lot of loyalty guards. I said, you know what, my loyalty.

837
00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:08,600
Speaker 1: You can't put a price on it. I'm a free agent.

838
00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:11,439
Speaker 1: I go where I want to. But yeah, so that's

839
00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:14,319
Speaker 1: you know, things to keep in mind. You are you're

840
00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:17,640
Speaker 1: you are a coffee rebel, Jonathan, I am. Yeah. Look,

841
00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:20,919
Speaker 1: just because I went into Starbucks, you know, twelve times

842
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:22,640
Speaker 1: last week, doesn't mean I'm going to go to that

843
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:25,359
Speaker 1: one today, despite the fact that's the most convenient because

844
00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:29,239
Speaker 1: it's right across the street. Anyway. Yeah, it's interesting technology.

845
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:32,280
Speaker 1: I love the idea that it's a read write magnetic strip.

846
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:34,359
Speaker 1: That to me is just cool that it's oh yeah,

847
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:35,680
Speaker 1: you know, it's kind of like it it makes me

848
00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:37,480
Speaker 1: think of something that you would see in a science

849
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:39,960
Speaker 1: fiction movie, like you know, Blade Runner being one of

850
00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:42,759
Speaker 1: the favorites around here in the office. But it's right

851
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:45,319
Speaker 1: here right now. So yeah, so thank you Chase for

852
00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:47,680
Speaker 1: for asking us about that, because although although it is

853
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:50,680
Speaker 1: it is a technically kind of separate conversation from the

854
00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:54,760
Speaker 1: NFC technology one, it's still related and I'm excited about

855
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:58,200
Speaker 1: both of these technologies upcoming. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, especially uh,

856
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:01,839
Speaker 1: you know, we're seeing, like, like we said, deadlines here

857
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:05,000
Speaker 1: October two thousand fifteen for these smart cards coming up

858
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:07,759
Speaker 1: from the major credit card companies and hopefully that will

859
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:10,120
Speaker 1: also mean that we'll have an agreed upon standard at

860
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:14,160
Speaker 1: that point. And also the coin Um smart card I

861
00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:17,120
Speaker 1: think they're launching sometime in the summer of two thousand

862
00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:19,720
Speaker 1: fourteen is when they should start seeing the actual products

863
00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:22,560
Speaker 1: start getting into Backer's hands. I'm I'm wondering how this

864
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:25,919
Speaker 1: NFC decision is going to start affecting coin and whether

865
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:28,359
Speaker 1: or not Coin is running a little bit scared right now. Yeah,

866
00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:30,400
Speaker 1: it could be that's one of those great ideas that

867
00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:33,359
Speaker 1: launched too late. Uh you know, I'm sure we're going

868
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:36,880
Speaker 1: to see support from magnetic stripe sticking around for a

869
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:40,240
Speaker 1: little while. Anyway, I mean, merchants are going to probably

870
00:45:40,239 --> 00:45:43,040
Speaker 1: have multiple things that will have to rely upon, so

871
00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:45,279
Speaker 1: if you if I can't imagine anyone just throwing the

872
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:47,560
Speaker 1: system out the window, and unless they decided to do

873
00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:49,920
Speaker 1: it like office space style, which is fair. That also

874
00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:52,920
Speaker 1: was did bring up one other issue I thought of

875
00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:56,080
Speaker 1: with the possibility of using coin as a payment. I

876
00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:58,279
Speaker 1: totally it's slipped my mind, but now it's come back

877
00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:02,480
Speaker 1: to me. If our is lost to the facility you're in,

878
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:07,359
Speaker 1: so some places still have those old carbon copy uh

879
00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:09,520
Speaker 1: devices where you put your card down, it makes a

880
00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:12,080
Speaker 1: hard carbon copy of whatever is. And this is also

881
00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:14,120
Speaker 1: something you'll see if you go to like conventions or

882
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:16,239
Speaker 1: things like that where people aren't able to afford the

883
00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:20,880
Speaker 1: electronic versions um or perhaps there's a a malfunction of

884
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:23,520
Speaker 1: some sort, or if you're in the basement of a

885
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:26,200
Speaker 1: large hotel, for example, and you cannot use a card

886
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:31,239
Speaker 1: swiper that's to be transmitting via three G. Yeah, yeah,

887
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:34,399
Speaker 1: you can't get a signal, the WiFi is completely worked. Yeah,

888
00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:37,000
Speaker 1: you've gotta You've gotta figure something else out. Well, a

889
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:39,040
Speaker 1: coin card won't help you in that sense because it's

890
00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:41,640
Speaker 1: not going to have the physical numbers on the card

891
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:45,359
Speaker 1: for them to copy using this old method. So if

892
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:47,640
Speaker 1: there ever is a situation where you have to make

893
00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:50,359
Speaker 1: a purchase through a merchant who doesn't have access to

894
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:54,200
Speaker 1: WiFi or three G or anything like that, or a

895
00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:57,520
Speaker 1: telephone line, then I mean, granted, that's you know, one

896
00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:00,400
Speaker 1: one case out of you know, a hundred that you

897
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:03,399
Speaker 1: would be encountering on a normal basis, but still something

898
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:05,720
Speaker 1: to think about. It's something where the coin method would

899
00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:08,640
Speaker 1: not work. Every time it rains. My favorite tie restaurant

900
00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:10,759
Speaker 1: is off limits because I don't have cash on me.

901
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:14,759
Speaker 1: Oh wow. That's well, whenever I go shopping at at

902
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:17,040
Speaker 1: any sort of convention or conference, like if I'm looking

903
00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:19,600
Speaker 1: at gift shops or you know, Dragon Con here in

904
00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:23,239
Speaker 1: in in Atlanta has an enormous actually sometimes more than

905
00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:27,400
Speaker 1: one enormous dealer room that has all these different vendors

906
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:29,120
Speaker 1: with cool stuff in it, but a lot of them.

907
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:32,520
Speaker 1: You know, the one booth might be really technologically savvy

908
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:35,120
Speaker 1: and ready to deal with anything, and the next booth

909
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:37,680
Speaker 1: might be, you know, you need to you need to

910
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:41,000
Speaker 1: barter with chickens. It's just it's they run the whole gamut,

911
00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:44,279
Speaker 1: really they do. And I'm personally sick to death of

912
00:47:44,360 --> 00:47:47,080
Speaker 1: carrying chickens with me to Dragon Con. I'm not happy

913
00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:51,399
Speaker 1: about either. It's just it's not convenient. So anyway, thank

914
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:53,440
Speaker 1: you so much Chase for asking about coin. It was

915
00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:55,680
Speaker 1: fun to get into that. And I hope that this

916
00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:58,400
Speaker 1: kind of gives some of our our u S listeners

917
00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:00,480
Speaker 1: and a better idea of what enough See is all

918
00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:03,520
Speaker 1: about and what they can expect to see over the

919
00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:06,160
Speaker 1: next couple of years. And uh, for those of you

920
00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:08,799
Speaker 1: in other places where you've been using NFC for a while,

921
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:11,680
Speaker 1: maybe you learned exactly what's going on behind the scenes

922
00:48:11,719 --> 00:48:14,400
Speaker 1: of that technology you depend upon frequently. I hope that

923
00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:16,960
Speaker 1: this was helpful for you guys too, And if you

924
00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:19,800
Speaker 1: have any suggestions for future topics that we can tackle

925
00:48:19,920 --> 00:48:22,400
Speaker 1: here at tech Stuff, here's what I want you to do.

926
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:25,080
Speaker 1: I want you to send us an email. That address

927
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:28,960
Speaker 1: is tech stuff at Discovery dot com. Or if you

928
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:31,280
Speaker 1: want to just be really succinct you think an email

929
00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:34,640
Speaker 1: is just that's too formal, let's know on social media

930
00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:37,840
Speaker 1: you can find us at Twitter, at Facebook, and at tumbler.

931
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:41,439
Speaker 1: We use the handle tech Stuff hs W at all

932
00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:44,720
Speaker 1: three locations, and we will talk to you again really

933
00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:50,640
Speaker 1: soon for more on this and thousands of other topics.

934
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:57,920
Speaker 1: Does it staff works dot com.