1 00:00:01,639 --> 00:00:08,360 Speaker 1: Hi, I am Kate Hudson and my name is Oliver Hudson. 2 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:11,840 Speaker 1: We wanted to do something that highlighted our relationship and 3 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:23,360 Speaker 1: what it's like to be siblings. We are sibling. Revalry No, no, sibling. 4 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:39,839 Speaker 1: Don't do that with your mouth, Vely, that's good, Lisa 5 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:46,160 Speaker 1: liek Lisa Link, sister and sister. You go to work 6 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:50,320 Speaker 1: on your melodys. That's my signature. Only melody you ever 7 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:53,960 Speaker 1: sang in your life, that's my signature melody Lisa Lee 8 00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:59,000 Speaker 1: and Sister. I loved this episode. I loved you. I 9 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:02,240 Speaker 1: was nervous sitting them. Yeah, because she's a pro, they're 10 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:05,120 Speaker 1: both they're pros. I mean well, also her sister's story. 11 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:08,160 Speaker 1: I didn't know how to sort of broach it or 12 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:09,959 Speaker 1: when to bring it up or if it was okay 13 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:11,640 Speaker 1: to bring up. I think it was interesting. I mean, 14 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 1: they wrote the book about Laura's kidnapping, But when someone's 15 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 1: experienced that kind of trauma, and someone's been through something 16 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 1: that is so deeply terrifying, it's hard. It was hard. 17 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 1: But what do you ask? You're like, so, were you 18 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:35,319 Speaker 1: was it? I know what it was like? I know, 19 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:38,839 Speaker 1: And and because we don't really do this for a living. 20 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:41,880 Speaker 1: We're learning how to interview people, we're learning how to 21 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 1: get It's not our learned profession. There were a few 22 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:49,240 Speaker 1: questions that I asked where she was like took big pauses, 23 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:51,920 Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, did I cross a line 24 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 1: of some kind? I didn't know whether it was okay 25 00:01:56,760 --> 00:01:59,360 Speaker 1: to ask certain specific questions because you know me, I'm 26 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:04,760 Speaker 1: a detail oriented person. I love the tiny little details 27 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:07,600 Speaker 1: of things, and so I wanted to get even deeper 28 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:11,519 Speaker 1: into a few sort of scenarios, but I didn't want 29 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:14,520 Speaker 1: to press, you know. But talking to Lisa, though, it 30 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:18,240 Speaker 1: was interesting about her reaction to it and how what 31 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:22,320 Speaker 1: kind of a mode she went into. When you know 32 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 1: her sister, her partner in crime, this person who she 33 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:29,800 Speaker 1: has shared her entire life with. Their not only sisters, 34 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 1: but there's some there's a deep spiritual bond that these 35 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 1: two have. And when this happened, hearing her reaction, no, 36 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 1: I know you. They're very self sufficient people. They had 37 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:46,360 Speaker 1: to learn how to be self sufficient so early, so 38 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:50,399 Speaker 1: they only had each other. They took care of each other, 39 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 1: and Lisa really took care of her sister when she 40 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 1: was younger. It's a very sweet story. Their sibling relationship. 41 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 1: I think that one of the things I noticed from 42 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 1: it was that they grew up pretty much unattended, and 43 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 1: they ended up becoming such incredibly grounded women, whereas in 44 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 1: that environment it could have gone completely the other way, 45 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:25,400 Speaker 1: having no parental guidance, and instead they just strong. Yeah. Strong. 46 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 1: So Lisa, Yeah, she's an award winning journalist. She's hosting 47 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:33,160 Speaker 1: the CNN series as His Life, which you've seen a 48 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 1: lot of love love it, a lot of it. And 49 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:39,600 Speaker 1: she also worked as a correspondent on the Oprah Winfrey Show, 50 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 1: co host on the View. That's actually when I met 51 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:45,480 Speaker 1: her first. I mean that was years ago when we 52 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 1: were both super young, and she started like eighteen years 53 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:55,120 Speaker 1: old working at Channel one, going to Afghanistan, traveling the world. Laura, 54 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 1: same thing. Award winning journalist, reported on topics like slave 55 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 1: labor in the Amazon, women's rights in the Middle East. 56 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:08,040 Speaker 1: She's very much invested in human humanitarian stuff. Yeah, and fearless. 57 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:11,040 Speaker 1: They're both so fearless. So then they wrote their book 58 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:14,760 Speaker 1: called Somewhere Inside One's sister's captivity in North Korea and 59 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 1: the others fight to bring her home. We loved having 60 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:25,440 Speaker 1: them here and they were awesome. So here we go Enjoy, Enjoy, 61 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:35,880 Speaker 1: Lisa and Laurel. Laura and Lisa, first of all, welcome. 62 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:39,680 Speaker 1: We're so happy you guys. We've been having so much 63 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:42,919 Speaker 1: fun doing this. We've been It's a different continent of dynamic. 64 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:44,479 Speaker 1: We don't do this for a living, you guys do. 65 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:49,280 Speaker 1: So what I find intriguing about that is, I mean, 66 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:52,719 Speaker 1: I know as an actor, I have that desire to 67 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:58,160 Speaker 1: try to understand different human behavior, and that I think 68 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:00,280 Speaker 1: is really what sparks me to be a storyteller. But 69 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:02,800 Speaker 1: what let's start with you, Lisa, like, what initiated this 70 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 1: curiosity to venture off in this career path. So Laura 71 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:10,919 Speaker 1: and I grew up in a town outside of Sacramento, 72 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 1: California called Carmichael, and it was not a very diverse place, 73 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:17,600 Speaker 1: and we didn't have a lot of money. Our parents 74 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:21,119 Speaker 1: got a divorce when I was seven Laura was four, 75 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:25,239 Speaker 1: and we really never got a chance to travel that much. 76 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 1: But yet I think both of us have always had 77 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:32,840 Speaker 1: like a pretty insatiable curiosity. And so the TV was 78 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 1: our favorite babysitter. It was on in our home all 79 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:39,240 Speaker 1: the time, and so I thought if I could somehow 80 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 1: get on TV, maybe I could have a better life. 81 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:44,840 Speaker 1: One day and I had found out about auditions at 82 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 1: a local mall for a teen magazine show. I did it. 83 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:51,719 Speaker 1: I got hired, but it wasn't until I started working. 84 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:54,440 Speaker 1: I got hired because I'd had that TV experience. I 85 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:57,240 Speaker 1: got hired to report for a show that was seen 86 00:05:57,279 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 1: in middle schools and high schools across the country called 87 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 1: Channel one. New was in fact Anderson Cooper from CNN 88 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 1: was one of my colleagues there, and that show. Because 89 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:07,599 Speaker 1: it was seen in schools, they hired a bunch of 90 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 1: young looking correspondents to deliver the news and to send 91 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:14,320 Speaker 1: out into the world to cover stories. How old. I 92 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:18,760 Speaker 1: was only eighteen when I started at Channel one, and 93 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 1: for a kid who had never gotten a chance to 94 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:24,720 Speaker 1: really travel much, it was the most eye opening experience 95 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:29,480 Speaker 1: you could imagine. And so I was sent to cover stories. 96 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:32,120 Speaker 1: I was sent to cover the Russian referendum elections. I 97 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:34,599 Speaker 1: was sent to cover stories about the drug wars in 98 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 1: South America, stories about globalization in India and China. And 99 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:42,839 Speaker 1: one year, this is a couple of years after i'd started, 100 00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:45,280 Speaker 1: they sent me to cover the civil war in Afghanistan. 101 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:48,240 Speaker 1: They asked me if I wanted to cover the civil 102 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:50,839 Speaker 1: war in Afghanistan, and we'd be going in with the 103 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 1: Red Cross, and so I felt fairly secure going in 104 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 1: with them, and so I agreed. And I'm twenty one 105 00:06:57,040 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 1: years old at the time, and from the moment we 106 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:02,680 Speaker 1: descended from the steps of the Red Cross plane, I 107 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:04,920 Speaker 1: was just in this state of shock by the scene 108 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:07,680 Speaker 1: that greeted me on the ground. I was immediately surrounded 109 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 1: by throngs of young boys who looked no more than 110 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:14,520 Speaker 1: ten years old, who were carrying kalashnikovs and RPGs and 111 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 1: weapons that were larger than they were. And it was 112 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 1: at that moment, or during that experience, that I realized 113 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 1: that I wanted to continue doing this kind of work, 114 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 1: not because I wanted to be on TV to have 115 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 1: a better life, but because I knew as a young 116 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:35,240 Speaker 1: person that our country, the US, was so involved in 117 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 1: Afghanistan throughout the nineteen eighties, but that no one in 118 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:41,520 Speaker 1: my world knew that this scene existed in the world, 119 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 1: knew that there were thousands of young boys who were 120 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:49,360 Speaker 1: harboring these weapons that were possibly even paid for by 121 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:53,960 Speaker 1: the United States. And that experience really propelled me to 122 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 1: want to communicate stories about things that were happening in 123 00:07:57,640 --> 00:08:01,680 Speaker 1: the world to a wider audience. And I got that 124 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:04,960 Speaker 1: travel bug, I don't you know, and I it just 125 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 1: it was such a world that was so foreign, so 126 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 1: foreign from mine, Like never in my wildest dreams did 127 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:17,040 Speaker 1: I ever expect I would see something like that. And 128 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 1: it was almost like this divine kind of communication to 129 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:23,240 Speaker 1: me that this is what I was supposed to do. 130 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:26,280 Speaker 1: What about the fear factor, Oh, it was terrifying. Terrifying? 131 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:28,120 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean, you know, we traveled to the 132 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:30,680 Speaker 1: front lines of the Civil War there and it was terrifying. 133 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:34,720 Speaker 1: But it was this like sense of adrenaline that I 134 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:37,680 Speaker 1: had never experienced before. And you know, I wasn't sexy, 135 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 1: isn't it. I have a friend who says that there's 136 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:44,920 Speaker 1: something actually quite sexy about it, maybe not as it's happening, 137 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 1: but sort of the world inside of it. When you 138 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:50,840 Speaker 1: live with that sort of adrenaline and you know that 139 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:52,880 Speaker 1: these things that you're doing are really important, you meet 140 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 1: the most interesting people. You know, this kid, it's I 141 00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:00,240 Speaker 1: would not say that I'm an adrenaline junkie by any means, 142 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 1: but I've always since that experienced really recognize those moments 143 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:08,520 Speaker 1: when I feel alive, you know, Like I think we 144 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:12,320 Speaker 1: go through our days most of us can't even remember 145 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 1: what we did yesterday, right, because things kind of become 146 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:18,480 Speaker 1: perfunctory after a while. Right when you're in the world 147 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:21,720 Speaker 1: and you're not just visiting touristy destinations, right, you're like 148 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:27,120 Speaker 1: immersed in someone else's life. Your senses are so heightened, 149 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:31,000 Speaker 1: you're thinking so much more sort of strongly, right, and 150 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:34,640 Speaker 1: you are just totally aware of your surroundings. And I'm 151 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:37,319 Speaker 1: not just talking about war zones, just anywhere outside of 152 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:40,480 Speaker 1: your comfort zone. I like that feeling, Like I like 153 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:44,160 Speaker 1: to feel all of those things, and you know, unfortunately 154 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 1: we've gotten to a place where we just don't really 155 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:47,760 Speaker 1: like to feel anymore. I think that's really I mean, 156 00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:51,880 Speaker 1: I was afraid to like go to Melrose. You're still 157 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:54,200 Speaker 1: afraid to go to I was that age I was 158 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:56,800 Speaker 1: scared to go to like Martel and Melrose because that 159 00:09:57,000 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 1: was like skill fearful for you to cross the four 160 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:05,640 Speaker 1: of and you live right by before h five. So 161 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:08,720 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm making this assumption, but I would think, 162 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:12,679 Speaker 1: just based on my relationships with my siblings that Lisa's 163 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:17,360 Speaker 1: you know entrance into this world. She's eighteen years old, 164 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:20,319 Speaker 1: which means you're three years younger, so that must have 165 00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:23,240 Speaker 1: been really inspiring for you, and you must have looked 166 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:25,480 Speaker 1: up to that in a sense when you were younger. Absolutely. 167 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:28,480 Speaker 1: I mean Lisa talks about how she when we were 168 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:32,000 Speaker 1: watching TV, she looked at Connie Chung, who was the 169 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:34,600 Speaker 1: closest person that she could identify with that looked like 170 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:39,560 Speaker 1: her and was doing these amazing things. And for me, 171 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:43,120 Speaker 1: I guess my Connie Chung was Lisa Ling, my sister. 172 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 1: And I'm getting so emotional, but so it happened. We 173 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:53,960 Speaker 1: cry all the time. So why was it. I was 174 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:57,960 Speaker 1: at UCLA when Lisa was in Afghanistan, and I remember 175 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:01,000 Speaker 1: when she came back and told me about this country 176 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:05,480 Speaker 1: where I really couldn't like most people identify on a map. 177 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 1: And when she told me the story about what she 178 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:11,600 Speaker 1: had seen, and I could see how affected she was 179 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 1: by it, I was just I was like, I want 180 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:19,600 Speaker 1: to do that too, And so I actually thought I 181 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:22,160 Speaker 1: was going to go into print reporting. I was working 182 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:24,839 Speaker 1: for a researcher for the La Times. But I could 183 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:28,400 Speaker 1: also see how television at the time was the dominant 184 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:33,280 Speaker 1: medium for people of our generation. And so then I 185 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:36,040 Speaker 1: just sort of followed in Lisa's footsteps, and I started 186 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:38,599 Speaker 1: working as a researcher and working my way up and 187 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 1: in the business and having the and eventually got the 188 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:46,680 Speaker 1: opportunity to, you know, travel around the world and cover 189 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:49,880 Speaker 1: issues of many of the issues that I covered have 190 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:53,520 Speaker 1: had to do with freedom and human rights. And then 191 00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:57,680 Speaker 1: you know, of course I experienced my own loss of freedom, 192 00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:02,760 Speaker 1: and so it has just given me a greater appreciation for, 193 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:05,440 Speaker 1: you know, the liberties that we have. Do do you 194 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:11,199 Speaker 1: think though, that this sort of desire you know this 195 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 1: It feels like this was like an internal fire. I 196 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:15,839 Speaker 1: understand that TV was the impetus, which I guess the 197 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:18,079 Speaker 1: lesson is here, lets your kids watch as much TV, 198 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:24,960 Speaker 1: right because look, look what different from it, by the way, 199 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 1: different from unfettered access to the internet, which we are 200 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:31,439 Speaker 1: not into like TV can be you know, the babysitter, 201 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:34,480 Speaker 1: the babysitter, look what the but but but what I'm 202 00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:36,280 Speaker 1: what I'm saying is is do you think that it 203 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:40,160 Speaker 1: was so going back to sort of growing up as kids? 204 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:43,080 Speaker 1: I mean, do you think that this was instilled? Do 205 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:45,800 Speaker 1: you think that your parents were part of the reason 206 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 1: that this is who you are you know, or is 207 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:52,320 Speaker 1: this something that is separate from how you were raised 208 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:57,520 Speaker 1: and grew up. It's funny to think about that because 209 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:00,800 Speaker 1: Laura and I kind of raised each other because our 210 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:03,240 Speaker 1: parents were were divorced when we were so young, and 211 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:06,120 Speaker 1: our dad worked all the time. Our grandmother was there, 212 00:13:06,120 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 1: but she was starting to become very senile and you know, 213 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:14,920 Speaker 1: developed dementia, and so I kind of took took it 214 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:18,480 Speaker 1: upon myself to raise Lauren. I think that's one of 215 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:20,240 Speaker 1: the reasons why we are so close. I mean, I 216 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:24,840 Speaker 1: honestly don't know very many siblings who are as close, 217 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:27,080 Speaker 1: who have been as close as the two of us, 218 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:28,679 Speaker 1: and I think I think a lot of it has 219 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:29,880 Speaker 1: to do with the fact that I kind of saw 220 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:31,880 Speaker 1: her as my kid, like I threw a birthday party 221 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:35,040 Speaker 1: for her because we our parents weren't around to do that, 222 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:41,679 Speaker 1: and divorce is always is devastating for young kids. But 223 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:44,800 Speaker 1: in some ways, now in retrospect, I think it could 224 00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 1: have been one of the best things that could have 225 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:50,520 Speaker 1: ever happened to us, because we got to experience two 226 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:53,760 Speaker 1: people who shouldn't have shouldn't have ever been together in 227 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:57,959 Speaker 1: the first place. Independent of one another, and and there 228 00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:00,679 Speaker 1: wasn't that constant like friction and tension in the house. 229 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:05,359 Speaker 1: But it also forced us to become so much more independent, 230 00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:08,440 Speaker 1: and I think actually that had a lot to do 231 00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:11,720 Speaker 1: with it. We would visit our mom moved to Los 232 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:14,800 Speaker 1: Angeles when we were kids, and it's funny that you 233 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:17,040 Speaker 1: were afraid of going to Melrose because my mom was 234 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:20,000 Speaker 1: like in La trying to hustle, and so she would 235 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:24,400 Speaker 1: just drop us off on Melrose. When we were young, 236 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:29,080 Speaker 1: kids would all day on Melo's and we loved it. 237 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:32,320 Speaker 1: Oh my god. But I think that coming from but 238 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:36,680 Speaker 1: coming from Sacramento, California, which couldn't be more different than Meloe's, 239 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:40,040 Speaker 1: we were just I mean, it was the best. And 240 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:45,960 Speaker 1: so Melrose Avenue was almost like our exposure to, you know, 241 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 1: a different life and a different culture. We would we 242 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 1: would just like go to stores, we'd hang out in 243 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:56,160 Speaker 1: the little choker necklaces that I made in my spare 244 00:14:56,200 --> 00:15:02,760 Speaker 1: time on Melrose Avenue. And were you were you were 245 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:05,360 Speaker 1: you guys living together or you as a family, You 246 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:07,920 Speaker 1: guys were all under the same roof. Yes, the two 247 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 1: of us were together almost always when we were young. 248 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 1: I mean Laura eventually moved to live in LA with 249 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 1: my mom later on when she was in the latter 250 00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:20,000 Speaker 1: part of high school. But for the most part we 251 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:23,240 Speaker 1: lived in Carmichael during the school year, and in the summer, 252 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:25,960 Speaker 1: we'd come to LA to stay with our mom. So 253 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:28,560 Speaker 1: you were mostly with your grandma. And where was dad? 254 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:31,840 Speaker 1: Dad was working all the time, Yeah, ben zacker Backer, 255 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:33,720 Speaker 1: We lived with our dad and I, so you probably 256 00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:37,680 Speaker 1: see him. You saw him more than you saw mom. Yes, 257 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:40,560 Speaker 1: we did. But he worked the graveyard shift, which means 258 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:44,280 Speaker 1: that he left at two o'clock in the afternoon and 259 00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:47,160 Speaker 1: then wouldn't come home until like eleven or twelve o'clock 260 00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:50,960 Speaker 1: at night. So we would see him on the weekends 261 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 1: and in the mornings. We really did raise ourselves. But 262 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:57,120 Speaker 1: and even though our parents had nothing to do with 263 00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:01,880 Speaker 1: the media, our mom did want to expose us to 264 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:07,560 Speaker 1: other cultures. And I remember our first trip we took 265 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:12,480 Speaker 1: international trip was to Hong Kong. I'd never experienced humidity before. 266 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:15,720 Speaker 1: When I walked off that plane, I thought that it 267 00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 1: was like the engines of the plane that were still worrying, 268 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:22,280 Speaker 1: that was making that giving me that feeling. And I said, Mom, 269 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:23,960 Speaker 1: why is what is this going on? And that was 270 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:26,600 Speaker 1: humidity for me, this was first time experienced humidity, but 271 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 1: just being in Hong Kong and opened our eyes to 272 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:32,560 Speaker 1: another world. So I think that our mom did want 273 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 1: us to travel, and that was also kind of like 274 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:39,280 Speaker 1: the start of something. Yeah, I mean, she wasn't there 275 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:42,360 Speaker 1: day to day with us, but it was because she 276 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:46,520 Speaker 1: was really working to try and give us experiences. And 277 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:48,800 Speaker 1: you know, as hard as it would, the divorce was 278 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:52,520 Speaker 1: for us like we love our dad, we just not 279 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 1: having our parents around for really anything, you know, I 280 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 1: mean because my dad, our dad worked all the time 281 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:01,200 Speaker 1: and our mom was living in LA So that was 282 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:04,040 Speaker 1: really challenging, you know. I mean we literally I can't 283 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:06,800 Speaker 1: remember edibly challenging. Yeah, I mean, I mean you look 284 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:09,680 Speaker 1: at your own kids as we as all parents do. 285 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:13,240 Speaker 1: You want to emulate certain things about your parents, and 286 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:15,560 Speaker 1: then you don't want to emulate certain things. But when 287 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:17,760 Speaker 1: you grow up like that, I mean that is beyond 288 00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:22,600 Speaker 1: challenging and probably traumatic. Devastated if I miss a Brownie meeting, right, oh, 289 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:25,679 Speaker 1: I know, well see, because we're products of divorce, I guess, 290 00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:27,920 Speaker 1: you know. Products. It's a strange word to say, but yes, 291 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:30,159 Speaker 1: we come from a divorced family. I but I go 292 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:33,480 Speaker 1: the other way. I have now become hyper dad, where 293 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:36,240 Speaker 1: I feel like if I am not around for one 294 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:39,560 Speaker 1: little thing, that he's going to have abandonment issues. He's 295 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:41,840 Speaker 1: going to be in therapy for twenty five years, you know, 296 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:44,399 Speaker 1: because I missed a drop off or I missed like 297 00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:47,199 Speaker 1: a hot lunch, you know. So I'm dealing with that. 298 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:50,240 Speaker 1: And I think that's something you know, once you do 299 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:53,760 Speaker 1: grow up and you know, achieve a certain kind of 300 00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:56,800 Speaker 1: I guess, a level of success, and you can provide 301 00:17:56,840 --> 00:18:01,199 Speaker 1: for your children what you never got as a kid, 302 00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 1: you do become hyper sort of vigilant about those things. 303 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:07,520 Speaker 1: And I think part of the reason why Laura and 304 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:10,840 Speaker 1: I became as ambitious as we have become is because 305 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:14,199 Speaker 1: we struggled. But at the same time, like what we 306 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:18,440 Speaker 1: would have done to have had our had our parents 307 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 1: that are you know, like game come to our events 308 00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:25,520 Speaker 1: and all that stuff, and like thinking back on you know, 309 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:28,480 Speaker 1: prom and having you know, an aunt like have to 310 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:30,000 Speaker 1: take me out, Like what we would have done to 311 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:35,800 Speaker 1: had our parents involved pictures you did, Yeah, when she 312 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:37,600 Speaker 1: would you know, her date would pick her up, then 313 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:41,879 Speaker 1: I would be there. But this does not mean that 314 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:43,719 Speaker 1: we're not close to our parents or don't appreciate them. 315 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:46,919 Speaker 1: I mean they were, you know, parents, they were working 316 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:51,040 Speaker 1: all well. Sounds circumstantial, you know, rather than sort of 317 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 1: I'm leaving you, I don't want anything to do with you. 318 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:57,320 Speaker 1: You know, there's a circumstantial aspect to it that maybe 319 00:18:57,320 --> 00:18:59,920 Speaker 1: makes it a little also think we can let's add 320 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:04,080 Speaker 1: perspective on this too, because your parents, your was it 321 00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:07,680 Speaker 1: your mother grew up in Taiwan and dad was Hong Kong, 322 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:10,040 Speaker 1: right and then there. But they were really sort of 323 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:15,200 Speaker 1: brought together through It was almost like an arrange marriage, 324 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:18,360 Speaker 1: you know. And then when did they come to the States, 325 00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:21,040 Speaker 1: So my dad was here that he was they met 326 00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:22,680 Speaker 1: here in the States, but my mom when she got 327 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:26,080 Speaker 1: to this country, didn't speak a word of English or Cantonese, 328 00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:29,400 Speaker 1: which is the language my dad grew up speaking. So 329 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 1: they communicated. I don't know how they communicated in the beginning, 330 00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:38,800 Speaker 1: but my dad dated Caucasian women and that was not 331 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:42,280 Speaker 1: cool for his parents, and so they kind of pushed 332 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:46,320 Speaker 1: him to marry my mom, who was this beautiful Taiwanese woman. 333 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:50,960 Speaker 1: And I can, of course now we understand why it 334 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:54,320 Speaker 1: didn't work. They couldn't have been more different. But when 335 00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:58,560 Speaker 1: you're a kid and and all of your friend's parents 336 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:01,119 Speaker 1: are together, I mean I didn't. We didn't know of 337 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:05,480 Speaker 1: many families that were divorced when we were growing up. 338 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:08,840 Speaker 1: It was just and your parents are immigrants. What was 339 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:13,119 Speaker 1: their relationship like to their parents? Did they have a 340 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:16,360 Speaker 1: good relationship? I mean, was your father because your grandmother 341 00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:18,240 Speaker 1: that was there with you guys a lot, was your 342 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:23,080 Speaker 1: father's mother. And what was that relationship like? Was it loving? 343 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:25,879 Speaker 1: Was it affection or was it very much like we 344 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:30,040 Speaker 1: get our job done, we work hard, and we love 345 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:34,119 Speaker 1: is secondary and love right, I think it was both. 346 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:38,000 Speaker 1: With regard to our dad, like he worked a lot, 347 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:40,880 Speaker 1: but he also was a very devoted son. I mean 348 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:43,280 Speaker 1: he took care of our grandmother until the very end. 349 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:47,439 Speaker 1: He he had plenty of girlfriends when we were growing up, 350 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:49,720 Speaker 1: but he never got married because we were always his 351 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:53,280 Speaker 1: first priority, and so was our grandmother. And by the way, 352 00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:58,240 Speaker 1: our mom never remarried either, because, yeah, because she was 353 00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:00,320 Speaker 1: dating someone who lived in Hong Kong, which is why 354 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:03,159 Speaker 1: we went there, and she wouldn't marry him because she 355 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:05,560 Speaker 1: didn't want to be far away from us, and so 356 00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:08,000 Speaker 1: they made a lot of sacrifices. And our dad, even 357 00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:10,639 Speaker 1: though he worked all the time, like he was very affectionate. 358 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:13,840 Speaker 1: I remember he'd come home from work at eleven, twelve 359 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:15,760 Speaker 1: o'clock at night. We'd be in our beds, but I 360 00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:17,760 Speaker 1: remember he had a mustache, and I remember him like 361 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:21,199 Speaker 1: I would feel his mustache hair like kiss me on 362 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:23,080 Speaker 1: the cheek and in the middle of the night when 363 00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:26,480 Speaker 1: he came home from work. And so they were very 364 00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:29,359 Speaker 1: they tried their best, you know, and you're right, it 365 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:32,560 Speaker 1: was circumstantial. And even with our mom, even though as 366 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:35,840 Speaker 1: kids we didn't understand why she wasn't with us all 367 00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:38,840 Speaker 1: the time, when we took the time to understand what 368 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:44,240 Speaker 1: her background was like, it made a lot, a lot 369 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:47,000 Speaker 1: of things a lot clearer for us because she really 370 00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:50,600 Speaker 1: grew up in a completely messed up home life. I mean, 371 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:53,920 Speaker 1: you know, her father had two congubines and had god 372 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:56,840 Speaker 1: knows how many kids, so she was one of I 373 00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:59,760 Speaker 1: don't know, over twenty kids, and so she didn't have 374 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:03,720 Speaker 1: any relationship with her father at all. He would basically 375 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 1: pat her on the head whenever he'd see her, and 376 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:10,800 Speaker 1: her mom was just so depressed that she'd never showed affection. 377 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:13,400 Speaker 1: So I think for both of us, after we really 378 00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:17,760 Speaker 1: took the time to understand our parents past, that really 379 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:20,720 Speaker 1: helped us appreciate the sacrifices they were making for It 380 00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:24,639 Speaker 1: also seems like you guys became each other's emotional saviors 381 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:27,320 Speaker 1: in a way. Yeah, you know what I mean, because 382 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:29,760 Speaker 1: you were the you guys were. You were able to 383 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:34,320 Speaker 1: experience and express love that your parents weren't able to give. 384 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:36,960 Speaker 1: You guys almost figured it out on your own, you know, 385 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:41,040 Speaker 1: Thank god you guys had each other. You know, what 386 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:43,320 Speaker 1: did your house look like that you grew up in? 387 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:49,560 Speaker 1: How would you describe it? I mean it was kind 388 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:52,919 Speaker 1: of like middle class. It was a two story house. 389 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:55,600 Speaker 1: But you know, we were we took care of the 390 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:59,200 Speaker 1: house so and our dad wasn't the neatest person, So 391 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:03,080 Speaker 1: I mean we were kids kind of taking care of everything. 392 00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:05,399 Speaker 1: The only thing that we never learned how to do 393 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:08,640 Speaker 1: is cook because our grandmother cooked. But yeah, we didn't 394 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:10,800 Speaker 1: like to have friends over a lot because it was 395 00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:12,800 Speaker 1: they would they would make fun of our us because 396 00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:20,720 Speaker 1: our households. Yeah, but and you know, like everything everything 397 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:23,960 Speaker 1: was old because when my mom, you know, moved, my 398 00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:26,560 Speaker 1: dad really didn't care, so everything, Like I remember the 399 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:30,879 Speaker 1: curtains were just like hanging there. They just everything was 400 00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:35,920 Speaker 1: old and you know, just not very very nice. Did 401 00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:39,680 Speaker 1: you share a room? We did? Do you still share 402 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:44,080 Speaker 1: a room? Actually? Actually, whenever we're together, we always want 403 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:48,399 Speaker 1: to sleep with the same I always. Yeah. We're actually 404 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:51,480 Speaker 1: traveling for an event tomorrow, and you know, they said, oh, 405 00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:53,120 Speaker 1: we got a room for each of you, and we're like, no, 406 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:57,520 Speaker 1: we've just one Room's fine. Yeah, I mean I wish 407 00:23:57,560 --> 00:24:01,879 Speaker 1: we were that close. We are. We're about three for 408 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:05,800 Speaker 1: three or two and three quarters, you know, But we 409 00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:09,400 Speaker 1: had a very different type of relationship growing. Yes, it's 410 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:14,200 Speaker 1: totally different. Yeah, yeah, more of a push and pull 411 00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:19,679 Speaker 1: type of relate, well more just push. Our father was 412 00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:23,520 Speaker 1: just not dependable in any way. And I like kind 413 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:26,399 Speaker 1: of remember it, but I but I don't. I almost 414 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:28,720 Speaker 1: sometimes wonder if I remember it because I've been told 415 00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:30,639 Speaker 1: the story so many times. But I feel like I 416 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:34,679 Speaker 1: have a very visceral memory of this moment where Oliver 417 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:38,399 Speaker 1: my dad was Our dad was supposed to pick us 418 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:43,879 Speaker 1: up and never showed up, and Oliver did not leave 419 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:47,399 Speaker 1: the doorway for hours, like he just sat there like 420 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:52,359 Speaker 1: waiting for dad, which is a perfect metaphor for him. 421 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:56,560 Speaker 1: Still that should be his memoir, Waiting for Dad, Waiting 422 00:24:56,600 --> 00:25:00,320 Speaker 1: for Dad, Still waiting, Still waiting up. But but you know, 423 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:03,440 Speaker 1: and Bill, you know, as you get older, you realize, 424 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:06,200 Speaker 1: you know, as you do, you realize where they come from. 425 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:09,280 Speaker 1: You realize what their challenges were or why they ended 426 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:11,840 Speaker 1: up repeating some of the same pattern writings, and you 427 00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:15,640 Speaker 1: find forgiveness and yes, which I have, I've got I've 428 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:17,720 Speaker 1: had come to Jesus moments with my dad and we 429 00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:20,720 Speaker 1: actually are communicating now, you know, through text. But it's 430 00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:22,879 Speaker 1: hard for him, you know, it's really hard. We've had 431 00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:24,960 Speaker 1: lunch a couple of times, but I'll text him saying 432 00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:27,760 Speaker 1: let's get together, and he won't text back, and I don't. 433 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:29,960 Speaker 1: It's not I don't take it personally anymore. You know, 434 00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:33,240 Speaker 1: there's something deeper. But you know it's in the work 435 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:36,840 Speaker 1: that we do in my show. I can't tell you 436 00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:41,160 Speaker 1: how many people I interview and they are the way 437 00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:46,200 Speaker 1: they are, or they've you know, kind of descended into 438 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:51,000 Speaker 1: like these pits so often because of something that happened 439 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:55,080 Speaker 1: in their childhood and when their parents just weren't there 440 00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:59,040 Speaker 1: for them when they needed that, they needed that support 441 00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:02,600 Speaker 1: or they just needed that like sense of reassurance. It's 442 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:05,399 Speaker 1: also about like self regulating. We just don't understand that 443 00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:09,200 Speaker 1: as children. I mean, now we start realizing with kids 444 00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:13,440 Speaker 1: the importance of social and emotional learning and teaching kids 445 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:17,280 Speaker 1: that don't have the tools from their parents to understand 446 00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:20,800 Speaker 1: it themselves. But you think about it, like, just even 447 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:23,480 Speaker 1: ten fifteen years ago, we weren't talking about a lot 448 00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:26,240 Speaker 1: of these things. And even us as kids with the 449 00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:29,840 Speaker 1: most amazing mother who wanted nothing but everything for us 450 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:32,320 Speaker 1: to be good, and a great step dad. You know, 451 00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:36,240 Speaker 1: you still come from a very privileged background, but here 452 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:39,800 Speaker 1: we are experiencing the worst kind of neglect and abandonment 453 00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:43,960 Speaker 1: that affects you. However, it's going to affect you. And 454 00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:47,600 Speaker 1: it's funny because I think for us, it's one of 455 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:49,720 Speaker 1: those things that you don't ever talk about because you 456 00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:51,639 Speaker 1: feel like because you grew up in some kind of 457 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:55,080 Speaker 1: privilege that nobody really will relate, nobody cares. Right, it 458 00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:58,600 Speaker 1: doesn't matter what your own, but it does I think 459 00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:03,879 Speaker 1: make Oliver and I very curious about the importance of 460 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:06,960 Speaker 1: like love and a connective family. I mean, we are 461 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:10,800 Speaker 1: an incredibly close family even through all the shit that 462 00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:13,159 Speaker 1: we've been through. You realize, like, at the end of 463 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,800 Speaker 1: the day, this relationship that we have is everything, and 464 00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:19,240 Speaker 1: it's everything that we can to like be the best 465 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:23,320 Speaker 1: version of ourselves in the world. Is what we're and 466 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:26,600 Speaker 1: how we're living and communicating together. Now, Yeah, I mean, 467 00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:30,600 Speaker 1: irrespective of how you grew up, right, Laura and I, 468 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:34,280 Speaker 1: if we didn't have each other, things could have turned 469 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:36,840 Speaker 1: out much much differently, and for the two of you 470 00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:39,679 Speaker 1: the same thing. You know, you were really lucky that 471 00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:42,680 Speaker 1: you at least had someone who could commiserate or who 472 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:46,359 Speaker 1: could understand, you know, exactly that moment when you were 473 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:49,240 Speaker 1: experiencing that why you were feeling that. Yeah, I mean 474 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:52,440 Speaker 1: there was a handful of times like my first heartbreak 475 00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:56,879 Speaker 1: with Oliver. You know, my very first heartbreak was devastating, 476 00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:59,560 Speaker 1: and I remember I was like sobbing in my room 477 00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:02,359 Speaker 1: and Oliver was the one who sort of held me 478 00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:05,359 Speaker 1: for a good hour to like tell me it was okay. 479 00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 1: I never had that with any man but Oliver. Really 480 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:16,119 Speaker 1: so they're pretty moments. I'm pretty great, You've got great moments, 481 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:21,919 Speaker 1: she said. There were five, let's be honest, by Oliver, 482 00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:25,600 Speaker 1: I will be calling you when I'm going through something, 483 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:29,400 Speaker 1: just be sure. So how often did you see Mom? 484 00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:32,840 Speaker 1: She came back to visit us probably once or twice 485 00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:35,120 Speaker 1: a month, and we talked on the phone every single day, 486 00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:37,520 Speaker 1: so she was the entire summer. Yeah, so she was 487 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:40,200 Speaker 1: very much a part of our lives. And did you 488 00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:42,800 Speaker 1: and then you moved to Mom and you stayed up 489 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 1: with Dad? Right? Yes? And how was that for you? Why? 490 00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:48,800 Speaker 1: First of all, just because I was still in high 491 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:51,480 Speaker 1: school and Lisa was working. So how was that though? 492 00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:54,240 Speaker 1: Because you guys are so close, I mean, I can't 493 00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:56,160 Speaker 1: even imagine now that I get in a little more insight. 494 00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:59,120 Speaker 1: I mean, you guys relied on each other so much 495 00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:03,960 Speaker 1: as support, Like, once that's fractured, how does that feel? 496 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:06,240 Speaker 1: How did that work? It was? It was devastating, But 497 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:10,360 Speaker 1: I think it also allowed me who you know, Lisa 498 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:12,520 Speaker 1: was kind of this mother figure for me, allowed me 499 00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:15,200 Speaker 1: to sort of become a little bit more independent. But 500 00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:19,160 Speaker 1: Lisa was also the sort of more rebellious one, correct, 501 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:21,480 Speaker 1: is true, So she was more of the mother figure. 502 00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:24,280 Speaker 1: But I'm definitely more like the more mature one, right right, 503 00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:32,520 Speaker 1: So she probably right? Okay perspective of that too, were 504 00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:36,560 Speaker 1: you like a wild child? I was pretty wild. Yeah yeah, 505 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:38,719 Speaker 1: but like I always I could out drink in and 506 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:43,200 Speaker 1: doing all the crazy stuff. I partied and I had 507 00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:45,280 Speaker 1: a good time. But I you know, I've always been 508 00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:49,240 Speaker 1: pretty good at like compartmentalizing things. So I knew that 509 00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:52,000 Speaker 1: I had to study hard in school and I you know, 510 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:55,440 Speaker 1: I had to to perform well. So I think again, 511 00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:57,680 Speaker 1: I think because we didn't grow up with parents in 512 00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:00,360 Speaker 1: the home all the time, we just learned learned how 513 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:03,719 Speaker 1: to become responsible for what we had to do. So 514 00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:08,080 Speaker 1: while I had a really good time, I always kind 515 00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:10,320 Speaker 1: of knew where the line was and I didn't crost 516 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:14,480 Speaker 1: it because it could go the total way. I mean, 517 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:22,040 Speaker 1: you had no authoritative figure guiding you in that sense. 518 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:25,840 Speaker 1: I mean we did well. I do have to say 519 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:29,840 Speaker 1: our grandma, who was ultra like. She was a religious zealot, 520 00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:35,360 Speaker 1: very highly educated woman. You know, even spoke like British 521 00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:38,959 Speaker 1: English because she she she went to school and studied 522 00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:45,920 Speaker 1: at Cambridge. But she was so religious that at Halloween 523 00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:48,680 Speaker 1: she would tear down our decorations and make us sing 524 00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:51,960 Speaker 1: hymns while people were bringing the doorbell wanting to trick 525 00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:54,560 Speaker 1: or treat. Like that's how religious. But I think in 526 00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:58,880 Speaker 1: a strange way. She instilled like the fear of God 527 00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:02,680 Speaker 1: in us, so that while we partied, we kind of 528 00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:06,720 Speaker 1: like subconsciously like always had that line because she imposed 529 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:09,160 Speaker 1: that on us. I really do you know. We we 530 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:13,400 Speaker 1: discount her sometimes because she was starting to become very senile, 531 00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:16,040 Speaker 1: but she did play a very big role in our lives. 532 00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:19,960 Speaker 1: She basically put the fear of God into OUs literally 533 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:23,280 Speaker 1: and kind of like instilling certain values at a very 534 00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:25,600 Speaker 1: young age. I mean she would sit us down and 535 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:28,440 Speaker 1: we would have to sit through Bible study with her 536 00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:30,680 Speaker 1: before we could go out and play with our friends. Wow, 537 00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:32,920 Speaker 1: when we were really young, because then she started to 538 00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:35,600 Speaker 1: you know, lose it. But are you but your guys 539 00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:39,640 Speaker 1: aren't religious now or are you I'm not religious at all. No, 540 00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:42,040 Speaker 1: I was going There's one of my questions is that 541 00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:45,479 Speaker 1: going into the field and doing what it is that 542 00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:50,720 Speaker 1: you do must be really challenging to sort of religion. 543 00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:54,080 Speaker 1: And I would just say that it plays such a 544 00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:56,960 Speaker 1: big part in so many conflicts that as a reporter 545 00:31:57,880 --> 00:31:59,840 Speaker 1: or as someone who's bringing these things to the forefront 546 00:31:59,880 --> 00:32:02,800 Speaker 1: of it must be a very challenging relationship to have. 547 00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:09,200 Speaker 1: So I I have shunned Evangelical Christianity because of my 548 00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:13,320 Speaker 1: experience as a young person. However, I am very very 549 00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:17,240 Speaker 1: connected to God. I have my own personal relationship with God, 550 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:22,640 Speaker 1: and I even channel some of the prophets, including Jesus 551 00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:25,920 Speaker 1: Christ in my work sometimes because I just think that 552 00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:28,880 Speaker 1: he was such a cool guy who walked the earth, 553 00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:37,640 Speaker 1: who is the most selfless, non judgmental, loving, kind, pure 554 00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:40,480 Speaker 1: human being, that I actually think about him in my 555 00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:51,080 Speaker 1: work all the time. But I don't Oliver Hudson, but 556 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:56,040 Speaker 1: I don't subscribe to any but I would. I would 557 00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:59,240 Speaker 1: say the same thing. I mean, I do talk to 558 00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:04,880 Speaker 1: a God. A God. I'm not religious. Is it God 559 00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:07,960 Speaker 1: in the Christian form? I don't know what I'll tell you. 560 00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:11,160 Speaker 1: It's a creator. Yeah, I don't know the creator right, Yeah. 561 00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:16,440 Speaker 1: I mean, in some very dark moments, I have talked 562 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:20,000 Speaker 1: to God and I have felt I felt a certain 563 00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:22,280 Speaker 1: presence there. I definitely I can't wait to get to 564 00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:27,320 Speaker 1: that part. You don't have to get to. No, I'm 565 00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:30,960 Speaker 1: so I'm so well. But this is such a huge 566 00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:34,160 Speaker 1: part of your guys relationship. I mean, there's one thing, 567 00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:37,280 Speaker 1: Lisa goes to Los Angeles, but then your sister goes 568 00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:40,880 Speaker 1: to do her work and gets taken. I don't even 569 00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:42,680 Speaker 1: know what that must have felt like for you. You 570 00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:45,200 Speaker 1: got that phone call, right, I mean I read a 571 00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:46,960 Speaker 1: little bit about it. Yeah. So it's two thousand and 572 00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:51,479 Speaker 1: nine and Laura and I had spoken about her wanting 573 00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:54,720 Speaker 1: to go report on a story about North Korean refuge 574 00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:59,360 Speaker 1: refugees in South Korea and China, and there was never 575 00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:03,640 Speaker 1: any mentioned about going into North Korea, and so I 576 00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:07,040 Speaker 1: thought there. I didn't even think twice about it. I mean, 577 00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:11,000 Speaker 1: she had gone to cover a story about drug trafficking 578 00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:14,000 Speaker 1: in Mexico a couple of months prior, and I was 579 00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:17,880 Speaker 1: actually terrified about her going and doing that. That's scary, 580 00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:20,359 Speaker 1: That's oh my god, that's how was it? How was that? 581 00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:24,560 Speaker 1: I mean, aside from North Korea? Just yeah, I mean well, 582 00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:28,719 Speaker 1: I mean the just the level and method of drug 583 00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:33,000 Speaker 1: related killings at that time was out of control. It 584 00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:36,880 Speaker 1: has simmered a little bit since then, but it was crazy. 585 00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:42,000 Speaker 1: I mean I was driving around witnessing the aftermath of 586 00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:46,040 Speaker 1: murder after murder after murder journal every day, so of 587 00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:49,319 Speaker 1: course I was terrified about Yeah, And it's true. So 588 00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:53,080 Speaker 1: for that story on the drug board Mexico, I was 589 00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:56,960 Speaker 1: certainly concerned about my physical well being, and getting back 590 00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:58,800 Speaker 1: from that story, there was a sense of relief that 591 00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:03,360 Speaker 1: any everything had gone. And so this story in northeastern 592 00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:07,120 Speaker 1: China was a sensitive story, but it was sensitive in 593 00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:12,080 Speaker 1: terms of the people we were interviewing in China and 594 00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:15,200 Speaker 1: and sort of like their safety and concealing their identities 595 00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:18,520 Speaker 1: and such. But I didn't feel as if it was 596 00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:23,040 Speaker 1: going to be such a uh, there was going to 597 00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:26,279 Speaker 1: be such a huge risk to me personally, and of 598 00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:29,640 Speaker 1: course that all changed. So even when you're in Mexico though, 599 00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:32,759 Speaker 1: just again it's just getting to the psychology of it. 600 00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:36,600 Speaker 1: But the story is so important to you that you 601 00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:40,279 Speaker 1: are willing to sort of say, fuck it, I'm going 602 00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:45,640 Speaker 1: to go to Mexico to expose this well exposes, yes, 603 00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:48,919 Speaker 1: But I don't think we really say fuck it. We 604 00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:54,080 Speaker 1: say what can we do to ensure that we have 605 00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:59,879 Speaker 1: taken every precaution for ourselves and others. And so one 606 00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:04,319 Speaker 1: you analyze the risk and try to mitigate the risk 607 00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:07,480 Speaker 1: as much as you possibly can. You feel more comfortable 608 00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:12,200 Speaker 1: going into a situation because you're prepared. But I also 609 00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:15,040 Speaker 1: you know, life is so is so random. I mean, 610 00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:19,680 Speaker 1: we could walk out into the street in twenty minutes 611 00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:23,200 Speaker 1: from now and get shot or get hit by And 612 00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:26,319 Speaker 1: I say this, it's like I'm going into Mexico for 613 00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:28,719 Speaker 1: a few days to cover the situation that people are 614 00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:33,080 Speaker 1: living through every single day. So they're the ones that 615 00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:35,440 Speaker 1: have to go to the supermarket and they don't know 616 00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:37,000 Speaker 1: if they come outside if there's going to be a 617 00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:40,000 Speaker 1: mass shooting or not. A simple trip to the supermarket 618 00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:43,560 Speaker 1: that we take every day without worry. So so that's 619 00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:45,200 Speaker 1: what you have. That's what I think about as well. 620 00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:48,200 Speaker 1: So you go to Mexico, you come back, you go 621 00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:52,839 Speaker 1: now to South Korea and China and South Korea and 622 00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:55,640 Speaker 1: then what when was that decision? So what happens? How 623 00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:57,759 Speaker 1: did we how did you being held captives? Right with 624 00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:04,480 Speaker 1: Hurria exactly? I know and listened to the NPR well. 625 00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:08,480 Speaker 1: So we were filming one day along the river that 626 00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:11,920 Speaker 1: separates North Korea and China, and the river was frozen, 627 00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:17,959 Speaker 1: and so we stepped onto that frozen ice, like many 628 00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:21,319 Speaker 1: people do when they are fleeing, when they're defecting from 629 00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:26,600 Speaker 1: North Korea or being smuggled or trafficked across and our guide, 630 00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:30,439 Speaker 1: we had a local guide there and he walked toward 631 00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:34,680 Speaker 1: the other side and motioned for us to follow him, 632 00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:37,400 Speaker 1: and we did, and we were there for just not 633 00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:39,440 Speaker 1: even more than a minute, and we turned around and 634 00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:46,160 Speaker 1: we left, and that's when two North Grand soldiers appeared 635 00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:48,880 Speaker 1: and started chasing us because you knew, I mean, you 636 00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:50,839 Speaker 1: were like, this isn't that we should not be over here. Well, 637 00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:52,880 Speaker 1: the thing is just I'll have to interject. You know, 638 00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:59,279 Speaker 1: when reporters go overseas, they often hire fixers who have 639 00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:03,680 Speaker 1: had experience with other television crews, with other media before, 640 00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:07,080 Speaker 1: and so this man was no different from so many 641 00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:09,360 Speaker 1: of the fixers that we hire. You have trusted that 642 00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:12,239 Speaker 1: you were going into an area that would have been Yeah, 643 00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:14,360 Speaker 1: I mean, of course, I mean this is the border, 644 00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:17,480 Speaker 1: so it is not we we know that it is 645 00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:22,239 Speaker 1: a sensitive area, you know. Having said that, there were 646 00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:24,880 Speaker 1: other reporters have been other reporters in the past who 647 00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:31,200 Speaker 1: have even made small talk with North Korean soldiers. I mean, 648 00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:34,000 Speaker 1: we we we still have reason believe that that esque 649 00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:38,200 Speaker 1: that that that fixer was paid off. So Laura a colleague, 650 00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:40,239 Speaker 1: were high they were high value targets. They worked for 651 00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:43,360 Speaker 1: Al Gore's media company. So so this is the difference 652 00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:46,760 Speaker 1: that we have as sisters. So so that's Lisa. Lisa 653 00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:50,160 Speaker 1: does believe that, and that may be the case, but 654 00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:55,319 Speaker 1: I choose not to even think about that. I I 655 00:38:55,520 --> 00:39:00,720 Speaker 1: feel as if I really cannot blame anyone but myself 656 00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:04,959 Speaker 1: for my actions that day. So I followed our guide. 657 00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:08,399 Speaker 1: No one forced me to follow him. I did it. 658 00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:10,839 Speaker 1: It was my instincts, instincts that I had relied on 659 00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:13,600 Speaker 1: throughout my career, instincts that have kept me safe, and 660 00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:15,480 Speaker 1: on that day, my instincts failed me. Did you have 661 00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:20,239 Speaker 1: any amendment where you were questioning their instincts, where you said, m, 662 00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:25,480 Speaker 1: something doesn't feel right, but I'm going to trust anyway. Yes. Yes. 663 00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:29,160 Speaker 1: So our guide was making these kind of odd sounds. 664 00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:31,880 Speaker 1: He was kind of like making these hooting sounds on 665 00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:34,920 Speaker 1: the ice while we were standing on that ice. He 666 00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:38,799 Speaker 1: was trying to attract the attention of the guards. I mean, 667 00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:42,000 Speaker 1: we're we're getting we're getting into the minute details of it. 668 00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:46,280 Speaker 1: But I thought he could have been trying to connect 669 00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:50,279 Speaker 1: with a North Korean soldier that he did know that 670 00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:53,240 Speaker 1: might want to talk to us, because he had told 671 00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:57,919 Speaker 1: us previously that he had connections in you know there, 672 00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:01,799 Speaker 1: and so you know, you can interpret it. So many 673 00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:04,800 Speaker 1: different ways. And that's why I say, I don't really 674 00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:07,360 Speaker 1: want to interpret it any other way than to just 675 00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:10,880 Speaker 1: take responsibility for my actions. And I'm the one that 676 00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:13,480 Speaker 1: had to deal with the consequences of it. So anyway, 677 00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:18,040 Speaker 1: so soldiers chased us up back into China and then 678 00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:21,439 Speaker 1: I was pretty violently beaten and then dragged into North Korea. 679 00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:25,279 Speaker 1: At that point, crazy, so crazy. You got ya with 680 00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:27,560 Speaker 1: the butt of a gun. So you were taken into 681 00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:30,200 Speaker 1: North Korea? And where where did they take you? What 682 00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:34,719 Speaker 1: was the first thing that happened. We were taken to 683 00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:41,000 Speaker 1: an army base and then transferred then to a on 684 00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:43,560 Speaker 1: the first day. We were transferred to a total of 685 00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:52,360 Speaker 1: three different locations, all army bases, eventually to a location 686 00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:59,800 Speaker 1: where we were put in separate cells and you stayed 687 00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:05,839 Speaker 1: in sell for for how long? Yeah, we were at 688 00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:07,960 Speaker 1: that location for a few days. I think it was 689 00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:11,200 Speaker 1: about two or three days, and they were you know, 690 00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:13,040 Speaker 1: it was very it was like a five foot by 691 00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:19,480 Speaker 1: six foot pitch black cell. Oh yea. And so again 692 00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:22,560 Speaker 1: I read I listened to sort of this NPR and 693 00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:25,360 Speaker 1: heard a little bit about it. But for you, again, 694 00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:30,920 Speaker 1: as her sister did, emotion immediately spring up or was 695 00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:34,480 Speaker 1: it more of, Okay, this has happened. I'm in this world, 696 00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:36,799 Speaker 1: I understand it. I need to sort of put that 697 00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:40,239 Speaker 1: aside for a second and fix this. You know, I 698 00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:43,759 Speaker 1: actually did not when I first got the call that 699 00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:47,240 Speaker 1: she had been abducted. It was her husband, Laura's husband, 700 00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:48,799 Speaker 1: calling me in the middle of the night because the 701 00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:54,960 Speaker 1: producer who was with them had escaped, and so so 702 00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:58,560 Speaker 1: he communicated to Laura's husband who called me and I 703 00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:02,719 Speaker 1: remember him saying Or has been abducted by North Korean officials, 704 00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:09,200 Speaker 1: And of course it sent panic through my you know, 705 00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:14,040 Speaker 1: my my body. But I thought, well, hopefully we can 706 00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:17,359 Speaker 1: just you know, they can make some calls, figure it out, 707 00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:21,880 Speaker 1: and they will be released. Because I just I didn't. 708 00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:25,560 Speaker 1: I didn't. I didn't think that they would hold them 709 00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:29,160 Speaker 1: as long as they would now we'd had we hadn't 710 00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:32,759 Speaker 1: talked that much about what she was working on. So 711 00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:36,240 Speaker 1: I certainly did think, well, if they if they find, 712 00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:39,839 Speaker 1: you know, the tapes, and they see that they had 713 00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:45,239 Speaker 1: been talking to refugees, then you know, there could be problems. 714 00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:47,439 Speaker 1: But it was it was it was a sense of shock, 715 00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:49,959 Speaker 1: but I was still hopeful that we might be able 716 00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:53,959 Speaker 1: to communicate with the Chinese government. We didn't know the story, 717 00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:57,239 Speaker 1: we didn't know anything, We hadn't talked to the producer yet. 718 00:42:57,400 --> 00:43:01,359 Speaker 1: So yeah, so I remember that so vividly when this 719 00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:04,239 Speaker 1: all happened. And so for you, you were there for 720 00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:09,040 Speaker 1: how long nearly five months? So five months, and overall 721 00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:12,480 Speaker 1: in terms of how you've would you feel like how 722 00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:16,920 Speaker 1: you were treated? What would be kind of your description 723 00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:20,279 Speaker 1: of that? Yeah, I think that the five months, it 724 00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:24,200 Speaker 1: was really a roller coaster of emotions and experiences. So 725 00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:32,040 Speaker 1: it was sheer terror to moments of hope, and there 726 00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:36,160 Speaker 1: were moments of I was treated humanly, and you know, 727 00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:39,160 Speaker 1: for that, I'm very grateful. I was certainly scared that 728 00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:41,920 Speaker 1: I might have to spend a very long time there, 729 00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:46,200 Speaker 1: perhaps the rest of my life. But I was treated 730 00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:50,520 Speaker 1: humanly once they had me in sort of their possession. 731 00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:55,239 Speaker 1: And I do like to talk about the glimmers of 732 00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:59,200 Speaker 1: compassion and humanity that I also experienced in exchanges with 733 00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:02,640 Speaker 1: my guards, and how we have very preconceived notions of 734 00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:06,160 Speaker 1: who the North Koreans are and they have preconceived notions 735 00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:09,920 Speaker 1: of us. But after some of those barriers were sort 736 00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:13,440 Speaker 1: of broken down that I think that my captors and 737 00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:15,719 Speaker 1: I were able to see each other in a different light. 738 00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:18,480 Speaker 1: Were you able to communicate with them? I mean, did 739 00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:21,840 Speaker 1: they speak English? There was always one guard assigned to 740 00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:24,400 Speaker 1: me that spoke at least a little bit of English. 741 00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:28,000 Speaker 1: I also had an interpreter who was always with the 742 00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:30,760 Speaker 1: interrogator who had come to question me, and he spoke 743 00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:36,440 Speaker 1: impeccable English. Okay, And so yeah, I mean, I you know, 744 00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:39,319 Speaker 1: I don't mean to like shamelessly plug the book that 745 00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:43,360 Speaker 1: we wrote, but the way that Laura describes and writes 746 00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:48,080 Speaker 1: about those interactions with these other human beings. Granted they 747 00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:51,400 Speaker 1: were they their job was to make sure that she 748 00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:56,920 Speaker 1: did not escape. They were guarding her, but they're so important, 749 00:44:57,200 --> 00:45:04,640 Speaker 1: I think, to recognize the humanity in human beings. And 750 00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:09,360 Speaker 1: for that, I remember when Laura was held there. I 751 00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:12,560 Speaker 1: said to my husband, I said, I know that Laura 752 00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:14,440 Speaker 1: is somehow going to win them over, and if she 753 00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:16,879 Speaker 1: ever gets out of there, they're going to miss her 754 00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:19,680 Speaker 1: and they're going to remember her, because that's just who 755 00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:23,239 Speaker 1: Laura is. Like I've never known anyone who's ever even 756 00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:27,480 Speaker 1: thought something negative about my sister. And I'm glad it 757 00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:31,320 Speaker 1: wasn't me who was there because I would probably still 758 00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:37,080 Speaker 1: be there. No, but it's such an amazing It's just 759 00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:41,600 Speaker 1: an amazing it's just who you are to see the 760 00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:44,239 Speaker 1: good and the compassion and humanity, you know, because it 761 00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:48,239 Speaker 1: is the truth. I mean, we all have that. We 762 00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:51,600 Speaker 1: are empathetic, we do have compassion. There are we are 763 00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:56,439 Speaker 1: you know, these guards, these people who you were dealing with, 764 00:45:56,840 --> 00:46:00,760 Speaker 1: you could see through some of sort of their rigor, 765 00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:05,040 Speaker 1: I guess, and really understand them as Yeah, I think that. 766 00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:10,719 Speaker 1: I think that what a lot of us tend to 767 00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:15,719 Speaker 1: do is sort of stay within our own silos, and 768 00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:18,960 Speaker 1: when we can just take the chance to get out 769 00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:23,120 Speaker 1: of those silos and just understand where each other's coming from, 770 00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:28,520 Speaker 1: people from opposite ends of the world, who have who 771 00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:32,560 Speaker 1: view each other, perhaps as enemies. Is this doesn't have 772 00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:34,640 Speaker 1: to apply to the US and North Korea to comply 773 00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:37,200 Speaker 1: to anything that's going on within our country right now, 774 00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:41,160 Speaker 1: right but if we take that chance to engage with 775 00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:44,480 Speaker 1: people that we consider different, maybe even our opposites, then 776 00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:47,600 Speaker 1: we can sort of find a common humanity. I mean, 777 00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:51,200 Speaker 1: Laura tells this incredible story about you know, she and 778 00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:55,799 Speaker 1: her colleague were sentenced to twelve years hard labor when 779 00:46:55,800 --> 00:47:01,160 Speaker 1: they were there, and when the news went out her 780 00:47:01,239 --> 00:47:05,200 Speaker 1: captor was the woman who had been in your room, 781 00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:08,640 Speaker 1: was kind of shocked and almost like disappointed in her 782 00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:12,040 Speaker 1: country that they had handed down this harsh sentence. And 783 00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:15,560 Speaker 1: it was just like a really kind of moving moment 784 00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:20,399 Speaker 1: that you two shared together. And again, like, I think 785 00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:24,520 Speaker 1: what I admire about what Laura did there was, you know, 786 00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:26,560 Speaker 1: our two countries, the US and North Korea, have had 787 00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:31,160 Speaker 1: this contentious relationship forever, right, But she knew that these 788 00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:34,480 Speaker 1: these these captors, all the people she interacted with, had 789 00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:38,960 Speaker 1: been raised believing that Americans were the enemy, right, that 790 00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:42,000 Speaker 1: they were actively at war with the United States, And 791 00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:46,719 Speaker 1: so I think Laura pretty masterfully kind of decided, like 792 00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:49,480 Speaker 1: I want to show them a different side of being 793 00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:52,040 Speaker 1: an American and just kind of killed them with kindness. 794 00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:57,680 Speaker 1: And so as a result, this kind of really poignant 795 00:47:58,280 --> 00:48:03,640 Speaker 1: relationship evolved. That is just you know, I still I 796 00:48:03,719 --> 00:48:06,440 Speaker 1: just think about how heartening that that was. Were you 797 00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:10,200 Speaker 1: ever aware of the communication that was going on between 798 00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:16,800 Speaker 1: North Korea and America? I was, so, let's see, Lisa 799 00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:21,279 Speaker 1: and I I was allowed to receive letters every now 800 00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:23,560 Speaker 1: and again, and so I would get information through those 801 00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:28,080 Speaker 1: letters and I knew that if I could, but I 802 00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:31,000 Speaker 1: wasn't allowed to send letters out. I sent one initial 803 00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:33,279 Speaker 1: letter out, but I knew that if I could just 804 00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:39,400 Speaker 1: talk to my sister, that she could help make something happen. 805 00:48:39,640 --> 00:48:42,400 Speaker 1: You know. It's that sibling thing, you know, because obviously 806 00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:45,799 Speaker 1: every letter that we ever sent, we knew that she 807 00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:48,880 Speaker 1: would not be the only person looking them. We knew 808 00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:51,520 Speaker 1: that there would be other eyes on them. And so 809 00:48:51,719 --> 00:48:54,640 Speaker 1: I think Laura also knew that if she were able 810 00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:58,879 Speaker 1: to contact me, like we just we are in each 811 00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:01,600 Speaker 1: other's heads, that whatever she said to me, I would 812 00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:04,600 Speaker 1: understand what she was trying to communicate. And in fact, 813 00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:06,960 Speaker 1: the very first call that she was able to make 814 00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:09,040 Speaker 1: to me because she convinced her captors, if you let 815 00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:10,920 Speaker 1: me call my sister, we can we can try to 816 00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:13,879 Speaker 1: get something done. The first time I heard her voice, 817 00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:17,040 Speaker 1: and this was like three months into her captivity, I 818 00:49:17,080 --> 00:49:18,880 Speaker 1: heard her voice and I was just like, I was 819 00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:21,480 Speaker 1: so overwhelmed, and I was just like I wanted to 820 00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:24,279 Speaker 1: know how she was. And she just said, Lisa, we 821 00:49:24,320 --> 00:49:26,880 Speaker 1: don't have time to talk about that right now. You know, 822 00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:31,160 Speaker 1: this is serious and we need to talk about you know, 823 00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:33,319 Speaker 1: we need to figure something out and I could just 824 00:49:33,840 --> 00:49:36,200 Speaker 1: I could tell at that moment there was probably someone 825 00:49:36,239 --> 00:49:39,839 Speaker 1: right next to her. I could just I knew, And 826 00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:43,360 Speaker 1: I said to her on the phone, I said, we 827 00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:45,279 Speaker 1: have just been quiet about this. We haven't talked to 828 00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:48,440 Speaker 1: the press. We're just trying to lay low. And she said, 829 00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:52,160 Speaker 1: it's been too quiet. And I just I knew at 830 00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:55,040 Speaker 1: that moment that it was time to raise the profile, 831 00:49:55,640 --> 00:49:57,440 Speaker 1: that we had to get in front of the press. 832 00:49:57,800 --> 00:50:01,400 Speaker 1: And I also knew that she was dealing with a 833 00:50:01,480 --> 00:50:06,560 Speaker 1: country that we were dealing with, a country that is 834 00:50:06,719 --> 00:50:11,400 Speaker 1: highly sensitive to how the public views it is. So yeah, 835 00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:16,680 Speaker 1: and so we just we sort of deployed this pr 836 00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:21,640 Speaker 1: strategy that was like just super like just in such 837 00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:25,200 Speaker 1: difference to the North Korean government, apologetic that we took 838 00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:29,080 Speaker 1: the onus on ourselves for making this egregious mistake, and 839 00:50:29,719 --> 00:50:31,799 Speaker 1: we begged for mercy, like we did not want to 840 00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:35,360 Speaker 1: do anything that would offend the North Korean government, even 841 00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:41,760 Speaker 1: though North Korea violated China's sovereignty by crossing over into 842 00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:44,200 Speaker 1: China and dragging them out of the country. We could 843 00:50:44,239 --> 00:50:46,560 Speaker 1: never we could never say that because we did not 844 00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:48,879 Speaker 1: want to piss off the North Korean government. Because they 845 00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:52,360 Speaker 1: held the cards. So now when you talk about those things, 846 00:50:52,880 --> 00:50:55,520 Speaker 1: do you ever get concerned that there would be some 847 00:50:55,560 --> 00:50:58,960 Speaker 1: sort of backlash? I don't think so. I mean I 848 00:50:59,000 --> 00:51:01,799 Speaker 1: sometimes I get people ask if I suffer from PTSD 849 00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:04,520 Speaker 1: or anything like that, and you know, sometimes I'll get 850 00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:07,080 Speaker 1: a nightmare or panic attack. But I do think that 851 00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:10,319 Speaker 1: the message that I have come back with and what 852 00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:15,120 Speaker 1: I try to convey is this is this deeper sense 853 00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:22,040 Speaker 1: of humanity. So yes, you know, I yes, I do 854 00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:24,960 Speaker 1: not want to forget the egregious human rights abuses that 855 00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:28,600 Speaker 1: take place in North Korea and the people who are suffering, 856 00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:33,759 Speaker 1: because too often the conversation is about the politics, it's 857 00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:36,880 Speaker 1: about the nuclear situation, and the people get lost in 858 00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:39,600 Speaker 1: that conversation. But that's why I like to direct it 859 00:51:39,760 --> 00:51:45,440 Speaker 1: back to the humanity and the connections that I was 860 00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:49,320 Speaker 1: able to make with the people. And so I feel 861 00:51:49,320 --> 00:51:51,719 Speaker 1: like my overall message that I've come back with is 862 00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:54,920 Speaker 1: just one of wanting to build a deeper connection for 863 00:51:55,360 --> 00:51:59,319 Speaker 1: those that we see through such a different lens. Did 864 00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:02,319 Speaker 1: you have to go into like survival mode from an 865 00:52:02,360 --> 00:52:06,759 Speaker 1: emotional psychological standpoint, you know, I mean, did you meditate? 866 00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:11,200 Speaker 1: Did you you know, really go within because I can't. 867 00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:13,520 Speaker 1: I mean, how do you survive that first? So at first, 868 00:52:13,600 --> 00:52:17,040 Speaker 1: I at first I didn't. At first, every single minute 869 00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:21,000 Speaker 1: felt like an eternity and I just sat around depressed. 870 00:52:22,120 --> 00:52:24,239 Speaker 1: There were times when I did think about taking my 871 00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:27,840 Speaker 1: own life. It was a very very dark place. But 872 00:52:30,040 --> 00:52:32,120 Speaker 1: I also thought that if I was going to get 873 00:52:32,120 --> 00:52:34,880 Speaker 1: through that situation, I would have to change the way 874 00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:38,120 Speaker 1: I was thinking and I would have to start trying 875 00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:42,279 Speaker 1: to like help determine my own fate. And so from 876 00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:45,120 Speaker 1: that point on, it was a kind of a very 877 00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:48,279 Speaker 1: simple shift in thinking. I went from I can't do this, 878 00:52:48,320 --> 00:52:52,520 Speaker 1: I'm going to die here to Okay, I can do this, 879 00:52:52,600 --> 00:52:54,839 Speaker 1: I can handle this. I have to work to make 880 00:52:54,880 --> 00:52:58,760 Speaker 1: something happen. And so just that kind of slight change 881 00:52:58,760 --> 00:53:03,040 Speaker 1: in perspective changed everything for me. I meditated, and I 882 00:53:03,080 --> 00:53:06,080 Speaker 1: exercised every single chance I could to keep kind of 883 00:53:06,080 --> 00:53:09,279 Speaker 1: my energy up, and I strategize and strategize. So when 884 00:53:09,280 --> 00:53:11,440 Speaker 1: Lisa talked about that first phone call and she was 885 00:53:11,440 --> 00:53:15,640 Speaker 1: so emotional, and my God like hearing her voice on 886 00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:20,960 Speaker 1: the other line, it just, you know it, my heart 887 00:53:21,040 --> 00:53:23,160 Speaker 1: was just exploding. But at the same time, I knew 888 00:53:23,440 --> 00:53:25,960 Speaker 1: that I had just a limited amount of time to 889 00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:28,640 Speaker 1: talk to her, and that that time could be cut 890 00:53:28,680 --> 00:53:31,640 Speaker 1: off at any moment, and so I needed to use 891 00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:35,239 Speaker 1: every second, every breath that I had to make sure 892 00:53:35,239 --> 00:53:39,400 Speaker 1: that I was conveying what I thought was necessary to 893 00:53:39,440 --> 00:53:42,719 Speaker 1: help our situation. So what happened to you when you 894 00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:46,680 Speaker 1: hung up the phone and then had went back into 895 00:53:46,719 --> 00:53:52,520 Speaker 1: time alone? Like that? Did you have like a I 896 00:53:52,600 --> 00:53:54,560 Speaker 1: know if it was if I could only try to 897 00:53:54,560 --> 00:53:56,239 Speaker 1: put myself in you for me, if I had that 898 00:53:56,280 --> 00:53:58,279 Speaker 1: moment I finally was able to talk to someone in 899 00:53:58,280 --> 00:54:02,279 Speaker 1: my family, that I'd just lose it. Yeah, I did 900 00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:05,160 Speaker 1: lose it. I mean every sort of like human communication. 901 00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:07,239 Speaker 1: It really was. It was with my family, of course, 902 00:54:07,239 --> 00:54:09,920 Speaker 1: but even like just having bright moments of communication with 903 00:54:10,000 --> 00:54:14,360 Speaker 1: anybody was a comfort to me. But when I after 904 00:54:14,400 --> 00:54:16,640 Speaker 1: I first spoke with my sister and I also got 905 00:54:16,640 --> 00:54:21,960 Speaker 1: to speak with my husband, It's hard to describe the feeling, 906 00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:26,600 Speaker 1: but I knew that I just had to keep like 907 00:54:27,200 --> 00:54:30,279 Speaker 1: strategizing again to figure out, like, Okay, what do I 908 00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:32,840 Speaker 1: have to do next? How can I make it to 909 00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:35,560 Speaker 1: the next call, and what do I have to do 910 00:54:36,480 --> 00:54:38,480 Speaker 1: or convey on that next call so that I can 911 00:54:38,560 --> 00:54:41,359 Speaker 1: keep moving this forward. Do you remember your meditations? I mean, 912 00:54:41,360 --> 00:54:45,440 Speaker 1: do you remember what when you would get quiet and 913 00:54:45,480 --> 00:54:47,600 Speaker 1: close your eyes and go to the place that was 914 00:54:47,800 --> 00:54:52,319 Speaker 1: of comfort. Do you remember those speciul? I started practicing 915 00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:53,680 Speaker 1: one of the things that I did, and I did 916 00:54:53,719 --> 00:54:56,200 Speaker 1: many things, but one of the things that I did 917 00:54:56,920 --> 00:54:59,640 Speaker 1: was practice the act of gratitude. And so this was 918 00:54:59,640 --> 00:55:01,879 Speaker 1: a rich that I would practice. Every evening. I would 919 00:55:01,880 --> 00:55:04,840 Speaker 1: sit cross legged and I would think about some things 920 00:55:04,880 --> 00:55:07,399 Speaker 1: that happened in that day that I felt grateful for. 921 00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:10,239 Speaker 1: So I would say, I feel grateful I saw a 922 00:55:10,280 --> 00:55:13,040 Speaker 1: butterfly outside my window. Even though I can't breathe the 923 00:55:13,040 --> 00:55:17,200 Speaker 1: fresh air, I feel grateful. I heard music today, you know, 924 00:55:17,239 --> 00:55:19,319 Speaker 1: perhaps I was allowed to watch some television and there 925 00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:22,799 Speaker 1: was a song that I heard it. It would be 926 00:55:22,840 --> 00:55:25,680 Speaker 1: thinking about those little things and that really brought me 927 00:55:25,719 --> 00:55:27,600 Speaker 1: a sense of peace and a sense of hope. And 928 00:55:27,640 --> 00:55:29,560 Speaker 1: it's something that is a ritual that I continue to 929 00:55:29,560 --> 00:55:32,400 Speaker 1: do to this day. So I especially gratitude about like 930 00:55:32,480 --> 00:55:35,239 Speaker 1: the meager bits of food that you got, because you know, 931 00:55:35,320 --> 00:55:37,240 Speaker 1: it was probably more than a lot of North Koreans 932 00:55:37,239 --> 00:55:38,840 Speaker 1: were getting. Oh yeah, I said that. Every night, I 933 00:55:38,880 --> 00:55:41,680 Speaker 1: would say, I feel grateful I got three meals today, 934 00:55:41,719 --> 00:55:44,640 Speaker 1: even though the portions were meager, because they were probably 935 00:55:44,640 --> 00:55:47,719 Speaker 1: more than what the opportunarrth Korean was getting. And by 936 00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:51,719 Speaker 1: doing continuing to do this and practice this ritual to 937 00:55:51,920 --> 00:55:57,160 Speaker 1: this day, I find that it can sort of add 938 00:55:57,160 --> 00:56:01,280 Speaker 1: a certain rhythm into our lives during very caseaotic, stressful moments. 939 00:56:01,360 --> 00:56:03,080 Speaker 1: It can allow us to just feel a little bit 940 00:56:03,120 --> 00:56:08,120 Speaker 1: more centered and focused and just a greater sense of peace. 941 00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:10,920 Speaker 1: M m. But when you think about it, we're constantly 942 00:56:10,960 --> 00:56:13,160 Speaker 1: spending our day thinking about what we don't have right, 943 00:56:13,280 --> 00:56:16,040 Speaker 1: and social media makes it so much worse because it's 944 00:56:16,040 --> 00:56:18,799 Speaker 1: like you're looking constantly at things that everybody else has 945 00:56:18,880 --> 00:56:22,799 Speaker 1: and faith, you know, just constant, but you know like 946 00:56:22,920 --> 00:56:25,919 Speaker 1: it's it is what it is, right. But we feel 947 00:56:25,960 --> 00:56:28,319 Speaker 1: like you should be doing more. You could be doing 948 00:56:28,640 --> 00:56:31,319 Speaker 1: so much, And then you look at Instagram and you're like, 949 00:56:32,040 --> 00:56:34,799 Speaker 1: should I be doing more? Is it more that you 950 00:56:34,920 --> 00:56:37,879 Speaker 1: don't even look at Instagram? On post? But if I'm 951 00:56:37,880 --> 00:56:40,400 Speaker 1: gonna post because it's like a weird outlet for me 952 00:56:41,000 --> 00:56:43,760 Speaker 1: just because I can truly sort of be my insane self, 953 00:56:43,840 --> 00:56:46,239 Speaker 1: I don't know why I feel that way. And then 954 00:56:46,480 --> 00:56:49,000 Speaker 1: I don't look at the feeds or anything I post 955 00:56:49,080 --> 00:56:51,960 Speaker 1: and then I'm out. It's two nuts, it is, it is, 956 00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:54,000 Speaker 1: but we but you know, we're constantly thinking about what 957 00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:57,080 Speaker 1: we don't have. And how often do we just think 958 00:56:57,239 --> 00:57:00,560 Speaker 1: during our day like what we about what we do have? Right? 959 00:57:00,640 --> 00:57:03,520 Speaker 1: It's just like so for the five for the five 960 00:57:03,560 --> 00:57:06,360 Speaker 1: months that that she was, that she was in North Korea, 961 00:57:06,680 --> 00:57:10,600 Speaker 1: were you able to have a great day one day? 962 00:57:10,680 --> 00:57:12,799 Speaker 1: I mean, were you able to sort of be to 963 00:57:12,920 --> 00:57:16,840 Speaker 1: laugh and have glasses of wine and actually participate in 964 00:57:16,960 --> 00:57:20,160 Speaker 1: your own life? Or was it too heavy? You know? Yeah? 965 00:57:20,240 --> 00:57:23,680 Speaker 1: I mean I mean, I I may I don't remember 966 00:57:23,760 --> 00:57:26,560 Speaker 1: any of those days at all. And again I'm someone 967 00:57:26,560 --> 00:57:29,480 Speaker 1: who likes to remember every day. Uh, it was. It 968 00:57:29,560 --> 00:57:34,160 Speaker 1: was pretty much a cloud, and I I started having nightmares. 969 00:57:34,840 --> 00:57:38,360 Speaker 1: I I would just wait by the phone, like I 970 00:57:38,440 --> 00:57:40,760 Speaker 1: just had my phone on me at all times, and 971 00:57:40,800 --> 00:57:43,360 Speaker 1: if I ever missed a call from somewhere, I would 972 00:57:43,360 --> 00:57:45,360 Speaker 1: just go into like a little depression. Yeah, because I 973 00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:47,760 Speaker 1: felt like I missed a call. And Lord, did you 974 00:57:47,760 --> 00:57:50,640 Speaker 1: ever have dreams? Did you ever she ever missed a call? 975 00:57:52,080 --> 00:57:53,840 Speaker 1: I think I did. I think I was like in 976 00:57:53,880 --> 00:57:56,080 Speaker 1: the bathroom or something when I missed a call. Yeah, 977 00:57:56,080 --> 00:57:57,919 Speaker 1: I think so. But I think that you were able 978 00:57:57,960 --> 00:58:01,400 Speaker 1: to call me back, yeah, like pretty soon, like within minutes. 979 00:58:02,240 --> 00:58:05,120 Speaker 1: But I mean, yeah, that was pretty kind of miraculous. Actually, 980 00:58:05,160 --> 00:58:07,920 Speaker 1: But yeah, I couldn't really work because I couldn't focus 981 00:58:07,960 --> 00:58:10,960 Speaker 1: on what I was doing, and our parents were just 982 00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:17,160 Speaker 1: a disaster. How did you tell Mom and Dad? I 983 00:58:17,200 --> 00:58:20,360 Speaker 1: mean I called them and I had to. You know, 984 00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:22,560 Speaker 1: my mom was actually the first call that I made, 985 00:58:23,120 --> 00:58:25,120 Speaker 1: even though she's just my Our mom is so prone 986 00:58:25,160 --> 00:58:28,360 Speaker 1: to stress, but she speaks perfect Mandarin, so she was 987 00:58:28,360 --> 00:58:31,120 Speaker 1: the first call because I said, we need to call 988 00:58:31,160 --> 00:58:33,320 Speaker 1: the Chinese government, We need to call everyone we know 989 00:58:33,440 --> 00:58:36,160 Speaker 1: in China to get on this, to try and communicate 990 00:58:36,200 --> 00:58:39,320 Speaker 1: to North Korea. But yeah, I mean our parents don't 991 00:58:39,360 --> 00:58:41,960 Speaker 1: deal with stress very well. I mean, part of the 992 00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:45,480 Speaker 1: biggest stress, you know, the bigest stress was just dealing 993 00:58:45,560 --> 00:58:48,600 Speaker 1: with communicating with Yeah, Trey would call me a million 994 00:58:48,600 --> 00:58:50,400 Speaker 1: times a day asking if Laura had called or if 995 00:58:50,400 --> 00:58:54,600 Speaker 1: I'd heard anything. So, yeah, and what about when you 996 00:58:54,680 --> 00:58:58,720 Speaker 1: were set to be released? Was there This sounds crazy, 997 00:58:58,800 --> 00:59:02,040 Speaker 1: but was there any hugs for the for these for 998 00:59:02,080 --> 00:59:05,120 Speaker 1: the guards, these people who you've actually came to. Yes, 999 00:59:07,520 --> 00:59:09,360 Speaker 1: it's a great question, Oliver. I'm trying to think if 1000 00:59:09,360 --> 00:59:13,520 Speaker 1: there were physical hugs. I think there probably were hugs. 1001 00:59:13,560 --> 00:59:15,720 Speaker 1: I mean, there was one time when I actually embraced 1002 00:59:15,800 --> 00:59:18,920 Speaker 1: my uh, one of my guards. She was crying for 1003 00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:21,800 Speaker 1: some reason, and I just felt compelled to reach out 1004 00:59:21,840 --> 00:59:23,560 Speaker 1: and hug her. And I knew that I could be 1005 00:59:23,560 --> 00:59:26,720 Speaker 1: taking a big risk, but I did, and I think 1006 00:59:26,720 --> 00:59:29,200 Speaker 1: that she appreciated that. And that's one of the I think, 1007 00:59:29,280 --> 00:59:33,640 Speaker 1: one of the moments where you know, it's one of 1008 00:59:33,640 --> 00:59:36,480 Speaker 1: the moments of sort of breaking down those barriers. But 1009 00:59:36,680 --> 00:59:41,280 Speaker 1: I do remember on last day, when I said goodbye 1010 00:59:41,400 --> 00:59:46,720 Speaker 1: to one of my guards, I gave her my email 1011 00:59:46,760 --> 00:59:49,640 Speaker 1: address and I said, I know that you are not 1012 00:59:49,760 --> 00:59:55,160 Speaker 1: able to communicate with the outside world, because although they 1013 00:59:55,200 --> 00:59:57,920 Speaker 1: have an intra net in North Korea, the average person 1014 00:59:58,440 --> 01:00:01,080 Speaker 1: can communicate within the country or they're not able to 1015 01:00:02,000 --> 01:00:05,800 Speaker 1: have email access to the outside world. So I said, 1016 01:00:05,920 --> 01:00:09,560 Speaker 1: one day, when you are able to communicate outside of 1017 01:00:09,560 --> 01:00:13,560 Speaker 1: North Korea, here is my email address, and I hope 1018 01:00:13,600 --> 01:00:16,920 Speaker 1: that you'll get in touch with me. And it's so 1019 01:00:16,960 --> 01:00:19,000 Speaker 1: funny because it's a y'allhoo address that I don't know, 1020 01:00:19,280 --> 01:00:25,560 Speaker 1: I don't use anymore, but I keep it just wow, 1021 01:00:25,960 --> 01:00:29,200 Speaker 1: it's pretty amazing. It's also just so it's again it's 1022 01:00:29,240 --> 01:00:31,520 Speaker 1: like it's it's to me, it's that thing is the 1023 01:00:31,600 --> 01:00:33,920 Speaker 1: powers that be, And you sometimes look at all these 1024 01:00:33,960 --> 01:00:37,920 Speaker 1: people making these big, enormous decisions that are affecting the 1025 01:00:38,040 --> 01:00:42,760 Speaker 1: direct ability to communicate and know each other. It's like 1026 01:00:42,800 --> 01:00:45,800 Speaker 1: that bridge, and I always think about, how do you 1027 01:00:46,760 --> 01:00:49,520 Speaker 1: how do you meet halfway on that bridge and really 1028 01:00:49,720 --> 01:00:52,000 Speaker 1: try to understand each other and your cultures And we're 1029 01:00:52,160 --> 01:00:55,520 Speaker 1: so we're so learned by where we come from and 1030 01:00:55,560 --> 01:00:59,160 Speaker 1: what we know and what we're told. And when you 1031 01:00:59,200 --> 01:01:01,480 Speaker 1: finally get to especially with a woman to woman, when 1032 01:01:01,520 --> 01:01:03,880 Speaker 1: you talk about you know, she was obviously going through 1033 01:01:03,920 --> 01:01:08,520 Speaker 1: something and you just want to embrace her to let 1034 01:01:08,520 --> 01:01:11,840 Speaker 1: her know at least physically, that she's good, that it's 1035 01:01:11,880 --> 01:01:16,040 Speaker 1: going to be okay. That type of humanity is what 1036 01:01:16,800 --> 01:01:21,880 Speaker 1: is what we forget to think about because one man 1037 01:01:22,120 --> 01:01:25,240 Speaker 1: decides that this is how he's going to rule his country. 1038 01:01:25,840 --> 01:01:29,320 Speaker 1: Yet we're all dealing with the same emotive challenge. We're 1039 01:01:29,320 --> 01:01:32,480 Speaker 1: all we all want the same things, you know, were 1040 01:01:32,840 --> 01:01:38,240 Speaker 1: irrespective of where we come from or what we espouse politically, right, 1041 01:01:38,320 --> 01:01:40,880 Speaker 1: I mean, our country right now, is so divided. The 1042 01:01:40,920 --> 01:01:42,920 Speaker 1: whole world is so divided. But at the end of 1043 01:01:42,960 --> 01:01:46,440 Speaker 1: the day, when you actually like interact with people, you're 1044 01:01:46,480 --> 01:01:48,920 Speaker 1: in their physical presence, you're looking them in the eye 1045 01:01:49,080 --> 01:01:51,919 Speaker 1: like you do start to realize that ultimately we all 1046 01:01:51,960 --> 01:01:54,240 Speaker 1: want the same things and we're all driven by the 1047 01:01:54,280 --> 01:01:58,320 Speaker 1: same desire, which is to provide for our families and 1048 01:01:58,400 --> 01:02:01,960 Speaker 1: to protect them. And it's funny, it's true. And you 1049 01:02:02,000 --> 01:02:04,240 Speaker 1: go into I travel a lot. I do work with 1050 01:02:04,280 --> 01:02:06,520 Speaker 1: the World Food Program. So you go into these different 1051 01:02:06,520 --> 01:02:11,640 Speaker 1: places and you meet it's really interesting people who I mean, 1052 01:02:11,680 --> 01:02:15,160 Speaker 1: there's no there's no I don't relate to any part 1053 01:02:15,240 --> 01:02:19,439 Speaker 1: of what their experience is. Until you go into their 1054 01:02:20,000 --> 01:02:23,000 Speaker 1: house and you start talking to a woman who just 1055 01:02:23,120 --> 01:02:26,520 Speaker 1: had a baby. You start talking to each other in 1056 01:02:26,760 --> 01:02:29,880 Speaker 1: kind of sign language for the audience. Kate just grabs 1057 01:02:29,880 --> 01:02:35,120 Speaker 1: her left breast about breastfeeding and like making like men like, 1058 01:02:35,200 --> 01:02:38,480 Speaker 1: oh so tired her. You know, next thing you know, 1059 01:02:38,520 --> 01:02:41,840 Speaker 1: you're having an absolutely relatable conversation about what it is 1060 01:02:41,880 --> 01:02:46,520 Speaker 1: to feed your babies. Totally, we can all relate to 1061 01:02:46,600 --> 01:02:50,160 Speaker 1: each other in some capacity. It's about me and it's 1062 01:02:50,160 --> 01:02:55,160 Speaker 1: about making those connections like you can't experiencing experience that 1063 01:02:55,280 --> 01:02:59,400 Speaker 1: without being there, without meeting with people face to face, 1064 01:02:59,680 --> 01:03:02,440 Speaker 1: not on Facebook, but face to face. No, well, we 1065 01:03:02,600 --> 01:03:05,600 Speaker 1: definitely need more face to face. I tell my kids, 1066 01:03:05,840 --> 01:03:08,920 Speaker 1: you know, they're twelve, nine and six, and I'm like, 1067 01:03:08,960 --> 01:03:11,160 Speaker 1: look when you my boys, I'm like, when you guys 1068 01:03:11,160 --> 01:03:14,040 Speaker 1: are gonna get into girls and stuff, I said, you're 1069 01:03:14,080 --> 01:03:16,600 Speaker 1: not going to be texting them to go to a movie. 1070 01:03:16,720 --> 01:03:18,880 Speaker 1: I said, I'm going to make sure that you were 1071 01:03:18,880 --> 01:03:23,040 Speaker 1: going to actually stand in front of this person and 1072 01:03:23,840 --> 01:03:26,840 Speaker 1: ask them to remember when we were kids, and like 1073 01:03:26,840 --> 01:03:29,520 Speaker 1: like when we there was a boy or girl that 1074 01:03:29,560 --> 01:03:32,120 Speaker 1: you liked, and how like remember those feelings you got 1075 01:03:32,160 --> 01:03:35,240 Speaker 1: when you were about to call them? You know, like 1076 01:03:36,120 --> 01:03:39,280 Speaker 1: those are so vivid for me, and I don't feel that. 1077 01:03:39,840 --> 01:03:41,880 Speaker 1: What how about when you actually had to call a 1078 01:03:42,000 --> 01:03:47,040 Speaker 1: landline and the parent because and you had to have 1079 01:03:47,200 --> 01:03:52,000 Speaker 1: such like actually like the guts to to actually know 1080 01:03:52,200 --> 01:03:55,960 Speaker 1: that if the parent would be like, oh, hey is 1081 01:03:56,160 --> 01:04:02,440 Speaker 1: Josh there? But who's this? Like can you know? That's 1082 01:04:02,120 --> 01:04:05,120 Speaker 1: shear's horror? But again, it's like it's that feeling, you know. 1083 01:04:05,280 --> 01:04:08,320 Speaker 1: And I think that this generation now that's grown up 1084 01:04:08,360 --> 01:04:11,880 Speaker 1: with these devices, they don't they don't feel anymore because 1085 01:04:11,920 --> 01:04:14,840 Speaker 1: they don't need to, and they're texting or they're meeting 1086 01:04:14,880 --> 01:04:18,160 Speaker 1: people via apps, and it's like I could talk to 1087 01:04:18,240 --> 01:04:21,240 Speaker 1: different I mean, what do you mean in terms of 1088 01:04:21,440 --> 01:04:23,440 Speaker 1: what you're talking about? I know, but I really want 1089 01:04:23,480 --> 01:04:26,320 Speaker 1: to do one thing. I just want the reunion, like, 1090 01:04:26,320 --> 01:04:30,360 Speaker 1: oh yeah, reunion. The plane ride and it's like you 1091 01:04:30,400 --> 01:04:32,640 Speaker 1: get off the plane and it's like, oh, well we 1092 01:04:32,680 --> 01:04:34,800 Speaker 1: didn't talk about when you realize that you were going 1093 01:04:34,840 --> 01:04:37,840 Speaker 1: to go home? Who told you that you were going 1094 01:04:37,920 --> 01:04:41,320 Speaker 1: to go home? Well? So I mean it hit you know. 1095 01:04:41,400 --> 01:04:43,960 Speaker 1: It was a long process, and I had requested that 1096 01:04:44,920 --> 01:04:47,600 Speaker 1: a number of different people serve as an envoy to 1097 01:04:47,680 --> 01:04:50,520 Speaker 1: come help with our release, but there was one person 1098 01:04:50,520 --> 01:04:55,520 Speaker 1: in particular that I began to realize was the one 1099 01:04:55,520 --> 01:04:58,800 Speaker 1: that the North Koreans needed and wanted, and that was 1100 01:04:59,320 --> 01:05:03,920 Speaker 1: former President Bill Clinton. And so I called my sister 1101 01:05:04,600 --> 01:05:08,600 Speaker 1: and can you imagine making that call, like, Hi, Lisa, 1102 01:05:08,720 --> 01:05:10,760 Speaker 1: do you think Bill Clinton can come to North Korea? 1103 01:05:12,560 --> 01:05:15,840 Speaker 1: It was a I didn't think that that was going 1104 01:05:15,880 --> 01:05:18,600 Speaker 1: to happen. I didn't think that he would be approved 1105 01:05:18,640 --> 01:05:21,600 Speaker 1: to make that trip. But I did convey that to 1106 01:05:21,680 --> 01:05:26,360 Speaker 1: my sister, and it was like the worst person to 1107 01:05:26,720 --> 01:05:31,640 Speaker 1: have been suggested, because Hillary Clinton was our chief diplomat. 1108 01:05:32,040 --> 01:05:35,120 Speaker 1: President Obama had not been in office that long, and 1109 01:05:35,480 --> 01:05:38,280 Speaker 1: Al Laura worked for a company that Al Gore ran, 1110 01:05:38,520 --> 01:05:41,840 Speaker 1: and so for a myriad of reasons, I thought, please 1111 01:05:41,880 --> 01:05:44,920 Speaker 1: don't ask for Bill Clinton. But he was the only 1112 01:05:44,960 --> 01:05:49,960 Speaker 1: one who who could do it, and apparently he agreed 1113 01:05:49,960 --> 01:05:53,640 Speaker 1: to do it without any questionation. And and by the way, 1114 01:05:53,720 --> 01:05:57,120 Speaker 1: Secretary Clinton also said, if that's who they need, let's 1115 01:05:57,200 --> 01:06:01,080 Speaker 1: let's let's make this happen. Yes, So, even though even 1116 01:06:01,120 --> 01:06:03,160 Speaker 1: though I was apprehensive because I didn't think he would 1117 01:06:03,200 --> 01:06:06,520 Speaker 1: be approved, given also this was a hugely sensitive to 1118 01:06:06,520 --> 01:06:10,040 Speaker 1: time between the two countries, he was and he made 1119 01:06:10,040 --> 01:06:13,400 Speaker 1: that trip and I was informed that an important envoy 1120 01:06:13,440 --> 01:06:16,160 Speaker 1: had just touched down and Peonging and that I might 1121 01:06:16,160 --> 01:06:17,880 Speaker 1: get to go home. And this was a huge shock 1122 01:06:17,920 --> 01:06:23,360 Speaker 1: for me. This was just nearly five months into the captivity, 1123 01:06:23,400 --> 01:06:26,480 Speaker 1: and it really was a huge shock. And from that 1124 01:06:26,640 --> 01:06:30,919 Speaker 1: minute on things actually moved very quickly. We were taken 1125 01:06:30,960 --> 01:06:33,360 Speaker 1: to a hotel, you know, my colleague and I were reunited. 1126 01:06:33,400 --> 01:06:36,560 Speaker 1: We were taken to a hotel to meet with him. 1127 01:06:37,600 --> 01:06:39,280 Speaker 1: I mean, I felt like I was having an out 1128 01:06:39,280 --> 01:06:43,320 Speaker 1: of body experience when you know, I saw President Clinton 1129 01:06:43,400 --> 01:06:47,360 Speaker 1: there at that hotel and really the presence of my 1130 01:06:47,400 --> 01:06:50,520 Speaker 1: country standing before me in the form of the forty 1131 01:06:50,520 --> 01:06:57,200 Speaker 1: second president. Okay, it's too much for kay, too early 1132 01:06:57,240 --> 01:06:59,600 Speaker 1: in the morning. And just did you fly back with 1133 01:06:59,680 --> 01:07:02,520 Speaker 1: Bresident Clinton. I did at his team and it was 1134 01:07:02,680 --> 01:07:06,320 Speaker 1: I mean, they were so amazing. They were so amazing. 1135 01:07:08,800 --> 01:07:11,160 Speaker 1: Steve Bing donated his plane so it wasn't at a 1136 01:07:11,240 --> 01:07:15,520 Speaker 1: cost to taxpayers, and I was able. Laura was able 1137 01:07:15,520 --> 01:07:18,520 Speaker 1: to call me from the plane. And I remember saying 1138 01:07:18,520 --> 01:07:20,920 Speaker 1: to her because I knowing that she had been you know, 1139 01:07:20,920 --> 01:07:22,760 Speaker 1: five months and kept tivity even though I didn't know 1140 01:07:22,800 --> 01:07:26,560 Speaker 1: about her situation at all. I didn't know where she 1141 01:07:26,640 --> 01:07:29,800 Speaker 1: was staying or anything. But I said, I need to 1142 01:07:29,800 --> 01:07:33,680 Speaker 1: get you like an eyebrow pencil. I'm sending a bag 1143 01:07:33,720 --> 01:07:35,880 Speaker 1: with President Clinton. It's going to have an eyebrow pencil 1144 01:07:35,880 --> 01:07:39,080 Speaker 1: and some tweezers, just because you're probably gonna have to 1145 01:07:39,280 --> 01:07:41,520 Speaker 1: there probably will be a lot of how is your hair? 1146 01:07:41,720 --> 01:07:44,520 Speaker 1: By the way, after the five months, and it just 1147 01:07:44,560 --> 01:07:49,760 Speaker 1: shows this sterly the sisterly bond. Okay, I mean the 1148 01:07:49,880 --> 01:07:53,959 Speaker 1: sister really bond. And did you get a hair cut 1149 01:07:54,000 --> 01:07:57,640 Speaker 1: in five months. I mean no, I mean, I mean 1150 01:07:57,640 --> 01:08:01,680 Speaker 1: my hair was pretty pretty funky. I pulled it back 1151 01:08:01,720 --> 01:08:04,760 Speaker 1: in a ponytail, and she was just so pale when 1152 01:08:05,400 --> 01:08:08,440 Speaker 1: I remember, I remember the Yeah, I hadn't seen it, 1153 01:08:08,520 --> 01:08:10,560 Speaker 1: you know, I mean I hadn't really seen the sun. 1154 01:08:12,960 --> 01:08:16,320 Speaker 1: What about first a Marria? Do you remember what you ate? Oh? Yeah, 1155 01:08:16,520 --> 01:08:19,679 Speaker 1: I well it's funny because all I craved was pizza. 1156 01:08:21,120 --> 01:08:24,639 Speaker 1: But my mom had made me this this Chinese soup 1157 01:08:24,640 --> 01:08:27,120 Speaker 1: that I love. I love the soups that she makes, 1158 01:08:27,160 --> 01:08:29,439 Speaker 1: but I really didn't care to have anything like Asian, 1159 01:08:30,560 --> 01:08:32,920 Speaker 1: so so I did have the soup, but it was great. 1160 01:08:33,000 --> 01:08:36,120 Speaker 1: But we had pizza that night and it was amazing. 1161 01:08:36,240 --> 01:08:38,679 Speaker 1: I mean, did you just cry all night? We cried 1162 01:08:38,680 --> 01:08:42,559 Speaker 1: for months, just like what about the first time you 1163 01:08:42,600 --> 01:08:45,120 Speaker 1: saw each other? Like, don't you still cry? Don't you 1164 01:08:45,160 --> 01:08:48,360 Speaker 1: still have moments? It's just it's so surreal. It's surreal. 1165 01:08:48,400 --> 01:08:50,920 Speaker 1: And you know, Laura and I we still we have 1166 01:08:51,040 --> 01:08:54,240 Speaker 1: always our whole life, like talked multiple times on the phone. 1167 01:08:54,320 --> 01:08:57,800 Speaker 1: I mean every morning she or I will call one 1168 01:08:57,840 --> 01:08:59,680 Speaker 1: another and be like, Hey, how you doing good? How 1169 01:08:59,680 --> 01:09:02,600 Speaker 1: are you good? Yeah? We don't have a good day 1170 01:09:04,880 --> 01:09:08,280 Speaker 1: By substance. Did you come home and just go okay 1171 01:09:08,400 --> 01:09:11,000 Speaker 1: because you didn't have kids? Then I didn't have kids. 1172 01:09:11,080 --> 01:09:14,920 Speaker 1: Were you like, we're having kids? Well you do pretty 1173 01:09:15,000 --> 01:09:19,679 Speaker 1: quickly if you do the math. Your daughter was born 1174 01:09:19,720 --> 01:09:25,080 Speaker 1: and we pretty much right that night. And then my 1175 01:09:25,200 --> 01:09:27,040 Speaker 1: head would just be like, oh my god, I just 1176 01:09:27,040 --> 01:09:29,000 Speaker 1: want to family. I don't want to It was a 1177 01:09:29,040 --> 01:09:36,280 Speaker 1: warm shower and then and what was we We haven't 1178 01:09:36,280 --> 01:09:40,720 Speaker 1: even talked about him, I mean, what about that reunion? 1179 01:09:41,560 --> 01:09:48,759 Speaker 1: You know? Oh god, you know, I feel very lucky. 1180 01:09:49,040 --> 01:09:52,960 Speaker 1: Ian and I met in college and we just you know, 1181 01:09:53,040 --> 01:09:56,200 Speaker 1: we have a very special relationship. My husband would write 1182 01:09:56,280 --> 01:09:58,880 Speaker 1: letters to me and like we had a meeting time 1183 01:09:59,280 --> 01:10:02,800 Speaker 1: established when at nine am in North Korea and five 1184 01:10:02,880 --> 01:10:05,360 Speaker 1: pm in Los Angeles, we would both look outside our 1185 01:10:05,400 --> 01:10:07,920 Speaker 1: respective windows and think of one another. And he would 1186 01:10:07,960 --> 01:10:11,080 Speaker 1: I mean, this guy so so he's my brother in law, 1187 01:10:11,640 --> 01:10:14,960 Speaker 1: but like there's no one like Laura's husband. Ian, like 1188 01:10:15,040 --> 01:10:17,600 Speaker 1: he truly, with all due respect to the men in 1189 01:10:17,640 --> 01:10:20,040 Speaker 1: this room, like is like they did, they did. They 1190 01:10:20,760 --> 01:10:24,320 Speaker 1: You could not have created a more incredible human being. 1191 01:10:24,400 --> 01:10:28,480 Speaker 1: And he would like sit in the same place, write 1192 01:10:28,479 --> 01:10:31,120 Speaker 1: her letters, like take pictures of himself in the same 1193 01:10:31,439 --> 01:10:34,920 Speaker 1: place with the window and like always set packages. I mean, 1194 01:10:35,560 --> 01:10:42,880 Speaker 1: it was the guy just it's indescribable, he's all love. Oh, 1195 01:10:43,000 --> 01:10:50,120 Speaker 1: indescribable what he what he did. But so then you 1196 01:10:50,240 --> 01:10:53,400 Speaker 1: just and so when you also so when so when 1197 01:10:53,439 --> 01:10:58,040 Speaker 1: I you know, walk down the steps of that plane, 1198 01:10:58,760 --> 01:11:02,960 Speaker 1: it was you know, it was incredibly emotional and to 1199 01:11:04,080 --> 01:11:05,800 Speaker 1: you know, to be able to see my husband and 1200 01:11:05,840 --> 01:11:09,679 Speaker 1: my sister again was absolutely amazing. But I do think 1201 01:11:09,720 --> 01:11:11,519 Speaker 1: that I was most affected by saying my mom and 1202 01:11:11,520 --> 01:11:14,840 Speaker 1: my dad and saying how much they had aged. I 1203 01:11:14,880 --> 01:11:19,040 Speaker 1: saw in my father's eyes a kind of blankness that 1204 01:11:19,080 --> 01:11:23,160 Speaker 1: I had never experienced, and I saw how much my 1205 01:11:23,240 --> 01:11:27,280 Speaker 1: mother had had aged from that, and so that really hurt. 1206 01:11:27,400 --> 01:11:28,960 Speaker 1: And you know, to this day, I don't think our 1207 01:11:29,240 --> 01:11:33,639 Speaker 1: dad's health began to deteriorate. I think from that moment 1208 01:11:33,720 --> 01:11:35,880 Speaker 1: on and has never quite been the same. So I 1209 01:11:35,920 --> 01:11:38,759 Speaker 1: feel a lot of I mean, they went nights without sleeping, 1210 01:11:39,760 --> 01:11:43,120 Speaker 1: nights and nights oh oh yeah. So that's what really 1211 01:11:43,360 --> 01:11:46,560 Speaker 1: hurt me the most, because it's not like any other captivity, 1212 01:11:46,640 --> 01:11:49,479 Speaker 1: like your kid gets locked up, you can still call, 1213 01:11:49,520 --> 01:11:51,679 Speaker 1: you know, they're under like when they're in a country 1214 01:11:52,200 --> 01:11:54,960 Speaker 1: where the US has no diplomatic relationship, like you don't 1215 01:11:55,000 --> 01:11:57,880 Speaker 1: know what the fuck? Yeah, where they are, what's going on? 1216 01:11:57,960 --> 01:12:01,360 Speaker 1: You know? And now that you have kids, and I mean, 1217 01:12:01,840 --> 01:12:05,679 Speaker 1: I think you know not we can understand what that 1218 01:12:05,720 --> 01:12:08,320 Speaker 1: feeling must be like. And I've always said that, you know, 1219 01:12:08,320 --> 01:12:11,240 Speaker 1: when mom before kids, it's you see your parents love 1220 01:12:11,280 --> 01:12:13,920 Speaker 1: you so much and you're like, okay, mom, Like I 1221 01:12:13,960 --> 01:12:17,120 Speaker 1: get it. I love you too. And I only truly 1222 01:12:17,160 --> 01:12:21,160 Speaker 1: appreciated how much my parents love me when I had 1223 01:12:21,160 --> 01:12:23,679 Speaker 1: my own kids and I felt that love for them. 1224 01:12:23,880 --> 01:12:26,760 Speaker 1: And I'm like, oh, oh, oh fuck. Of course you're 1225 01:12:26,880 --> 01:12:29,559 Speaker 1: like this with me. I mean, I'm forty years old 1226 01:12:29,560 --> 01:12:31,160 Speaker 1: and you're looking at me like, oh my god, you're 1227 01:12:31,200 --> 01:12:34,519 Speaker 1: my baby. And your kids won't appreciate it until they 1228 01:12:34,520 --> 01:12:38,000 Speaker 1: take kids, so they won't understand why I smother them either. 1229 01:12:38,160 --> 01:12:40,320 Speaker 1: You know, they're like Jesus, Dad, please, you know, but 1230 01:12:40,400 --> 01:12:42,960 Speaker 1: wait till you have kids, you'll get it. So when 1231 01:12:43,000 --> 01:12:46,640 Speaker 1: the does settled after all of this this experience for 1232 01:12:46,720 --> 01:12:48,280 Speaker 1: both of you guys, do you think that it then 1233 01:12:48,400 --> 01:12:51,160 Speaker 1: took your work and put it into like were you 1234 01:12:51,280 --> 01:12:55,559 Speaker 1: even more inspired for your work or did you feel 1235 01:12:56,439 --> 01:13:01,160 Speaker 1: nervous about re entering yeah, I I felt more inspired 1236 01:13:01,200 --> 01:13:05,320 Speaker 1: about the work, but I was also nervous about re entering. 1237 01:13:05,479 --> 01:13:08,080 Speaker 1: So I feel that the work is incredibly important. We 1238 01:13:08,160 --> 01:13:12,920 Speaker 1: need to be out there uncovering these stories. You know, 1239 01:13:12,960 --> 01:13:16,800 Speaker 1: there's a humanitarian crisis that's taking place right now in 1240 01:13:16,840 --> 01:13:19,120 Speaker 1: the world. It needs the world attention. But for me, 1241 01:13:19,439 --> 01:13:22,400 Speaker 1: you know, it took me an entire year to be 1242 01:13:22,560 --> 01:13:25,080 Speaker 1: able to travel outside of the United States, and it 1243 01:13:25,160 --> 01:13:30,120 Speaker 1: was to the mean streets of Toronto, So you know, 1244 01:13:30,280 --> 01:13:33,840 Speaker 1: I do approach things with a little bit more hesitation, 1245 01:13:34,120 --> 01:13:36,840 Speaker 1: and I've been working on stories that have to do 1246 01:13:36,880 --> 01:13:40,559 Speaker 1: a little bit more about the human condition. Actually, I 1247 01:13:40,720 --> 01:13:44,120 Speaker 1: had a web series about rituals that was inspired by 1248 01:13:44,160 --> 01:13:46,840 Speaker 1: the ritual gratitude that I experienced in North Korea, and 1249 01:13:46,840 --> 01:13:49,680 Speaker 1: it looked at the rituals of other people and what 1250 01:13:49,720 --> 01:13:52,400 Speaker 1: they do to kind of thrive and survive. And then 1251 01:13:52,439 --> 01:13:54,800 Speaker 1: I just completed a project for Discovery last year about 1252 01:13:54,800 --> 01:13:59,599 Speaker 1: the science and benefits of kindness and not just you know, 1253 01:13:59,800 --> 01:14:01,960 Speaker 1: the people on the receiving ends, but the givers of 1254 01:14:02,040 --> 01:14:08,760 Speaker 1: kindness and the tremendous benefits we experience, including physical and 1255 01:14:08,800 --> 01:14:12,000 Speaker 1: health benefits when we are kind, even leading to longer 1256 01:14:12,040 --> 01:14:15,760 Speaker 1: life yeah. So my kid, my middle kid, Body, we 1257 01:14:15,760 --> 01:14:18,000 Speaker 1: were in this shoe store and he has these little 1258 01:14:18,040 --> 01:14:19,760 Speaker 1: tech decks things which are that you play. It's like 1259 01:14:19,760 --> 01:14:22,400 Speaker 1: little mini skateboards, right, And there are these two guys 1260 01:14:22,439 --> 01:14:24,880 Speaker 1: behind the counter and they were like, oh my god, man, 1261 01:14:24,920 --> 01:14:26,240 Speaker 1: I remember when we were kids and we used to 1262 01:14:26,280 --> 01:14:28,080 Speaker 1: do this and let me borrow that. And they were 1263 01:14:28,080 --> 01:14:30,920 Speaker 1: playing with the tech decks and they were loving them, 1264 01:14:31,000 --> 01:14:34,760 Speaker 1: and Body had three in his pocket, and we were 1265 01:14:34,840 --> 01:14:37,360 Speaker 1: leaving the store. We walked down. He goes, I want 1266 01:14:37,400 --> 01:14:40,920 Speaker 1: to give them the tech decks, all right, And we 1267 01:14:41,000 --> 01:14:44,200 Speaker 1: went back in and he gave them each one of 1268 01:14:44,240 --> 01:14:47,160 Speaker 1: these little tech decks. And these guys were over there. 1269 01:14:47,200 --> 01:14:49,880 Speaker 1: I couldn't believe that this little dude was doing this. 1270 01:14:50,840 --> 01:14:56,080 Speaker 1: And we left and Body started jumping around and swealing. 1271 01:14:56,240 --> 01:14:59,519 Speaker 1: He was just emanating joy. And I was like, it 1272 01:14:59,520 --> 01:15:02,280 Speaker 1: feels like good to give, huh, And he goes, he 1273 01:15:03,479 --> 01:15:06,280 Speaker 1: was it was like something he had done for experience 1274 01:15:06,360 --> 01:15:11,360 Speaker 1: before because he saw how that made someone else feel. 1275 01:15:11,600 --> 01:15:13,479 Speaker 1: And I said, it's better to give than to get, 1276 01:15:13,880 --> 01:15:15,600 Speaker 1: isn't it. And he goes, yeah, you know, it was 1277 01:15:15,640 --> 01:15:18,400 Speaker 1: such a moment for me, you know, and sort of 1278 01:15:18,439 --> 01:15:21,800 Speaker 1: correlating that with the sort of science of happiness and 1279 01:15:21,800 --> 01:15:24,559 Speaker 1: what that can do not only for the receiver but 1280 01:15:24,600 --> 01:15:27,479 Speaker 1: also for what you are gaining from that. You know, 1281 01:15:28,320 --> 01:15:30,639 Speaker 1: it's amazing. That's sort of the direction of your work 1282 01:15:30,640 --> 01:15:34,280 Speaker 1: now is just talking about more mindfulness studies and kindness. 1283 01:15:34,680 --> 01:15:38,960 Speaker 1: I would like to focus my work a little bit 1284 01:15:38,960 --> 01:15:41,719 Speaker 1: more on the human condition, and who knows, maybe I'll 1285 01:15:42,080 --> 01:15:44,040 Speaker 1: pick up that and start doing that book on rituals 1286 01:15:44,040 --> 01:15:47,519 Speaker 1: and kid Yeah, I mean, this is my mom and 1287 01:15:47,560 --> 01:15:49,599 Speaker 1: I are really I mean, we can talk about this anytime. 1288 01:15:49,600 --> 01:15:52,360 Speaker 1: But you know, my mom has this foundation called mind Up. 1289 01:15:52,880 --> 01:15:57,360 Speaker 1: It's all about social and emotional curriculum for kids. It's 1290 01:15:57,360 --> 01:16:00,240 Speaker 1: about understanding that it's about teaching kids that he young 1291 01:16:00,280 --> 01:16:02,800 Speaker 1: age to really understand their brain, how it works when 1292 01:16:02,840 --> 01:16:06,439 Speaker 1: they're feeling stress or anger or pressure. How did they 1293 01:16:06,520 --> 01:16:08,880 Speaker 1: understand where it's coming from? You know, they learn but 1294 01:16:08,960 --> 01:16:11,759 Speaker 1: theyir amigdala, and then how to manage it through breath, 1295 01:16:12,080 --> 01:16:15,639 Speaker 1: through taking brain breaks, through really sort of being able 1296 01:16:15,680 --> 01:16:18,160 Speaker 1: to sort of self regulate. And we have so much, 1297 01:16:18,320 --> 01:16:21,280 Speaker 1: so much more to talk about and then for you 1298 01:16:21,360 --> 01:16:25,800 Speaker 1: list what I mean, we're obviously all over CNN. It 1299 01:16:25,880 --> 01:16:28,840 Speaker 1: was just very exciting. Yeah, I mean, I've been working 1300 01:16:28,920 --> 01:16:32,080 Speaker 1: on the same show, This Is Life on CNN, our 1301 01:16:32,200 --> 01:16:34,719 Speaker 1: sixth season. It's airing now, we're working on our seventh, 1302 01:16:34,840 --> 01:16:38,600 Speaker 1: and you know, it's a documentary series that explores so 1303 01:16:38,640 --> 01:16:41,560 Speaker 1: many different kinds of topics and different American subcultures. And 1304 01:16:42,280 --> 01:16:44,800 Speaker 1: for me, the experience with Laura in North Korea has 1305 01:16:44,920 --> 01:16:48,200 Speaker 1: has made me more defiant than ever to want to 1306 01:16:48,280 --> 01:16:53,839 Speaker 1: continue telling stories and making people aware of their fellow humans, 1307 01:16:53,960 --> 01:16:55,960 Speaker 1: because I've always believed that the more we know about 1308 01:16:56,000 --> 01:16:59,080 Speaker 1: each other, the better we are, the more the smarter 1309 01:16:59,160 --> 01:17:01,040 Speaker 1: we are, and the better we be come. And I 1310 01:17:01,080 --> 01:17:02,840 Speaker 1: think we've gotten to a place in our culture right 1311 01:17:02,840 --> 01:17:06,680 Speaker 1: now where we're so polarized, you know, we're so in 1312 01:17:06,720 --> 01:17:09,720 Speaker 1: our bubbles, and we've stopped really hearing each other and 1313 01:17:09,800 --> 01:17:12,760 Speaker 1: understanding each other. And so my hope is that when 1314 01:17:12,760 --> 01:17:15,880 Speaker 1: people watch my shows, they'll they'll develop a better understanding, 1315 01:17:16,120 --> 01:17:21,240 Speaker 1: possibly a more compassionate sense of how their fellow humans live. So, 1316 01:17:21,400 --> 01:17:28,720 Speaker 1: what has been of this season the most challenging interview 1317 01:17:28,800 --> 01:17:33,160 Speaker 1: you had or moment you had of the series? Oh, 1318 01:17:33,240 --> 01:17:36,519 Speaker 1: my god, Kate, I mean, I couldn't because every everything, 1319 01:17:36,960 --> 01:17:41,439 Speaker 1: every show is a different kind of experience right. We 1320 01:17:41,520 --> 01:17:44,760 Speaker 1: did an episode about benzodiazepines, and you know, these are 1321 01:17:44,800 --> 01:17:49,799 Speaker 1: some of the most widely prescribed drugs on Earth Xanax, volume, klonipin, adavan, 1322 01:17:50,120 --> 01:17:53,360 Speaker 1: and uh, you know, I came to the realization that 1323 01:17:53,760 --> 01:17:57,760 Speaker 1: so few doctors really who are prescribing these meds number one, 1324 01:17:58,080 --> 01:17:59,840 Speaker 1: know how to get people off if they start to 1325 01:18:00,280 --> 01:18:03,320 Speaker 1: exhibit signs of withdrawal, or know how to help them taper. 1326 01:18:03,920 --> 01:18:08,320 Speaker 1: And to me, it is just it is absolutely devastating 1327 01:18:08,400 --> 01:18:11,360 Speaker 1: and terrifying that our own doctors are, you know, in 1328 01:18:11,439 --> 01:18:13,680 Speaker 1: some cases, unaware of how to deal with some of 1329 01:18:13,720 --> 01:18:16,200 Speaker 1: the meds that they're prescribing. So I think that that 1330 01:18:16,400 --> 01:18:20,200 Speaker 1: that's the most infuriated I've I've been in working on 1331 01:18:20,400 --> 01:18:23,920 Speaker 1: episodes this season, but every episode is its own kind 1332 01:18:23,920 --> 01:18:27,840 Speaker 1: of unique experience. I love it. I love it. A 1333 01:18:27,920 --> 01:18:29,519 Speaker 1: few more questions. At least you got to go back. 1334 01:18:29,600 --> 01:18:31,599 Speaker 1: We could talk for I have so many fucking questions. 1335 01:18:32,240 --> 01:18:33,560 Speaker 1: I want to talk about how what it was like 1336 01:18:33,640 --> 01:18:39,800 Speaker 1: writing the book together, tensions or disagreements are There's so 1337 01:18:39,960 --> 01:18:42,160 Speaker 1: much to talk about. But I think one thing we 1338 01:18:42,280 --> 01:18:48,200 Speaker 1: ask everybody actually, uh, is sort of looking at each other. 1339 01:18:49,320 --> 01:18:54,320 Speaker 1: Start with Lisa, like you look at Laura. What would 1340 01:18:54,400 --> 01:18:57,960 Speaker 1: you what would you like to take? What would you 1341 01:18:58,080 --> 01:19:02,200 Speaker 1: take from her that you don't have? What is something 1342 01:19:02,240 --> 01:19:06,840 Speaker 1: about Laura quality that you would say, Oh, I wish 1343 01:19:06,960 --> 01:19:10,439 Speaker 1: I had more of that? And then your next Laura. 1344 01:19:12,560 --> 01:19:16,080 Speaker 1: I love how Laura mothers her kids, her kids like 1345 01:19:16,200 --> 01:19:20,519 Speaker 1: She's such a present, playful mom. I mean, I am 1346 01:19:20,680 --> 01:19:23,280 Speaker 1: at my kids events and I spend a lot of 1347 01:19:23,320 --> 01:19:26,040 Speaker 1: time with them, but she just she just plays with them, 1348 01:19:26,360 --> 01:19:32,600 Speaker 1: and I just really appreciate it, admire how how how what? 1349 01:19:32,920 --> 01:19:35,639 Speaker 1: Like what an amazing mother she is to her kids. 1350 01:19:36,320 --> 01:19:42,519 Speaker 1: Thank you God. I could take so many things from 1351 01:19:42,560 --> 01:19:46,599 Speaker 1: my sister if I could. There are so many things 1352 01:19:48,479 --> 01:19:50,960 Speaker 1: Lisa just we we talked about this earlier, Kate. Lisa 1353 01:19:51,080 --> 01:19:54,920 Speaker 1: just has a natural ability to connect with people. And 1354 01:19:55,080 --> 01:20:00,600 Speaker 1: I feel as though, you know, in my work I do, 1355 01:20:00,960 --> 01:20:07,080 Speaker 1: but Lisa, it's just effortless. And I I'll often call 1356 01:20:07,200 --> 01:20:09,080 Speaker 1: Lisa up and I'll be like, oh, I'm so nervous 1357 01:20:09,120 --> 01:20:11,960 Speaker 1: about you know, this event I'm doing, and She's just like, 1358 01:20:12,439 --> 01:20:14,760 Speaker 1: you got this, you you got this. I kind of 1359 01:20:14,840 --> 01:20:17,160 Speaker 1: carry a little bit more of a nervous energy about myself, 1360 01:20:17,720 --> 01:20:21,920 Speaker 1: but Lisa is just calm and easy and I definitely 1361 01:20:23,560 --> 01:20:25,960 Speaker 1: what would you take away from her, like a stress. 1362 01:20:27,240 --> 01:20:30,360 Speaker 1: I would take that anxiety that she has, because sometimes 1363 01:20:30,400 --> 01:20:33,000 Speaker 1: she gets in her head and I just want to 1364 01:20:33,200 --> 01:20:35,680 Speaker 1: I always because she calls me about everything, wants to 1365 01:20:35,720 --> 01:20:38,320 Speaker 1: almost like get my approval of things or get my opinion. 1366 01:20:38,439 --> 01:20:42,640 Speaker 1: I'm like, you just just be you, Just just be you, 1367 01:20:43,280 --> 01:20:45,080 Speaker 1: and you don't have to worry about that. So that's 1368 01:20:45,120 --> 01:20:47,880 Speaker 1: the one thing I always kind of want to convey 1369 01:20:47,920 --> 01:20:54,360 Speaker 1: to her. And for Lisa, I would be she has 1370 01:20:54,439 --> 01:20:57,360 Speaker 1: a lot going on, so her mind is always in 1371 01:20:57,439 --> 01:21:02,120 Speaker 1: a million different places, and so I think that, you know, 1372 01:21:02,240 --> 01:21:05,400 Speaker 1: if I could give her that gift of just, you know, 1373 01:21:06,120 --> 01:21:08,920 Speaker 1: kind of focusing on one thing at a time rather 1374 01:21:08,960 --> 01:21:13,840 Speaker 1: than trying to Virgo. You're a virgo, and what's your 1375 01:21:13,880 --> 01:21:19,200 Speaker 1: Sattarius sag I'm Airius. So we're fire and yes, it's similar. 1376 01:21:19,680 --> 01:21:24,320 Speaker 1: We're fire and you guys are interesting. Yeah. I can 1377 01:21:24,439 --> 01:21:26,920 Speaker 1: relate to that. I can relate to having a lot 1378 01:21:27,040 --> 01:21:30,320 Speaker 1: on your plate, and it is a nice thing. It 1379 01:21:30,400 --> 01:21:34,639 Speaker 1: feels almost like a uh for me at this moment 1380 01:21:34,720 --> 01:21:37,880 Speaker 1: in my life, it would feel like a beautiful gift 1381 01:21:38,040 --> 01:21:40,600 Speaker 1: to be able to only focus on one thing. But 1382 01:21:40,680 --> 01:21:42,840 Speaker 1: then there's the other side, which is I'm choosing to 1383 01:21:42,960 --> 01:21:45,599 Speaker 1: do a lot of things because it's just the way. Yeah, 1384 01:21:45,800 --> 01:21:48,599 Speaker 1: let's do the speed round real quick. Fine little questions, 1385 01:21:48,640 --> 01:21:50,120 Speaker 1: and then you guys have to promise to come back 1386 01:21:50,120 --> 01:21:52,040 Speaker 1: at a certain point. Okay, you go for as Allie, 1387 01:21:53,000 --> 01:22:01,120 Speaker 1: one word to describe the other. One word compassionate. Sweet. Okay, 1388 01:22:01,200 --> 01:22:05,840 Speaker 1: so Laura said Lisa's compassionate. Oh sorry, okay, okay, got it, 1389 01:22:05,960 --> 01:22:11,760 Speaker 1: got it. This is who is more adventurous. Lisa's more 1390 01:22:11,760 --> 01:22:17,439 Speaker 1: adventurous about that? No, I think I think she's just 1391 01:22:17,520 --> 01:22:22,640 Speaker 1: being nice Laura. You think Laura thinks you're more adventurous 1392 01:22:23,000 --> 01:22:32,720 Speaker 1: than Lisa. Yeah, yeah, maybe, Okay, it's funnier Lisa. She's not. 1393 01:22:33,080 --> 01:22:36,880 Speaker 1: She's she's like, yeah, maybe I am who gets the 1394 01:22:37,000 --> 01:22:39,479 Speaker 1: last word during an argument. If you guys ever are 1395 01:22:39,680 --> 01:22:42,760 Speaker 1: do you fight? By the way, very rarely, but I 1396 01:22:42,880 --> 01:22:45,960 Speaker 1: definitely dominate for sure. You did. That's right. Yeah, I 1397 01:22:46,040 --> 01:22:49,800 Speaker 1: think it's we got an argument when I don't know, 1398 01:22:49,960 --> 01:22:52,560 Speaker 1: I was seven years old and I was supposed to 1399 01:22:54,600 --> 01:22:56,880 Speaker 1: give up the sitting in the front seat of the 1400 01:22:57,000 --> 01:22:59,840 Speaker 1: car for the rest of my life. That was like, 1401 01:23:00,920 --> 01:23:04,439 Speaker 1: that's what we lost in the argument, and I still 1402 01:23:04,840 --> 01:23:11,599 Speaker 1: go to the back. That's a good question. And again, 1403 01:23:11,640 --> 01:23:13,160 Speaker 1: we don't fight a lot. But the last time we 1404 01:23:13,200 --> 01:23:14,760 Speaker 1: did get in a fight, like a few months ago, 1405 01:23:14,800 --> 01:23:19,479 Speaker 1: I think you cried. Oh god, I can see yeah, 1406 01:23:19,600 --> 01:23:22,040 Speaker 1: what would you what would you fight? What would you 1407 01:23:22,120 --> 01:23:26,760 Speaker 1: possibly fight about? I don't even remember what it was about. Okay, 1408 01:23:26,800 --> 01:23:31,320 Speaker 1: who's you? We don't need to talk about that. Who 1409 01:23:31,400 --> 01:23:35,800 Speaker 1: gets annoyed more easily? We both do. I think we 1410 01:23:35,880 --> 01:23:39,120 Speaker 1: both get. You get more annoyed. You get Who borrows 1411 01:23:39,439 --> 01:23:46,800 Speaker 1: things from the other more? Well? Me? Who is better? 1412 01:23:47,280 --> 01:23:52,720 Speaker 1: Who's better at talking their way out of something? I mean, yeah, 1413 01:23:52,800 --> 01:23:55,200 Speaker 1: I mean it's a tough one. I would have said 1414 01:23:55,280 --> 01:23:57,080 Speaker 1: me until North Korea. I was going to say, like, 1415 01:23:57,800 --> 01:23:59,600 Speaker 1: talk about talking your way out of time? This is 1416 01:23:59,640 --> 01:24:03,200 Speaker 1: like the question we asked Lisa. Lisa also does not 1417 01:24:03,560 --> 01:24:07,240 Speaker 1: do well in confrontation. You do well, whereas I think 1418 01:24:07,280 --> 01:24:09,320 Speaker 1: I do a little bit better. Do you do you 1419 01:24:09,400 --> 01:24:11,680 Speaker 1: go and do you retreat? I will? I will get 1420 01:24:11,720 --> 01:24:16,679 Speaker 1: in fights with people on Twitter? You will your confrontational Well, yeah, 1421 01:24:16,720 --> 01:24:18,360 Speaker 1: I mean I don't do it often because I try 1422 01:24:18,479 --> 01:24:21,960 Speaker 1: really hard to kind of you know, have conversations. But 1423 01:24:22,040 --> 01:24:24,920 Speaker 1: sometimes if you if you push my buttons, I can 1424 01:24:24,960 --> 01:24:30,080 Speaker 1: get back off. Who's better? Who's better at gift giving? 1425 01:24:30,920 --> 01:24:36,280 Speaker 1: Laura she's She's especially for kids for sure. Oh like, 1426 01:24:36,360 --> 01:24:43,600 Speaker 1: here's the Amazon kid. Okay, we always ask I like 1427 01:24:43,720 --> 01:24:46,599 Speaker 1: to put it a certain you do this. Oliver likes 1428 01:24:46,640 --> 01:24:49,320 Speaker 1: to say who do you like better? I like to say, 1429 01:24:49,680 --> 01:24:53,920 Speaker 1: who did you relate to the best in this interviewing process. 1430 01:24:54,840 --> 01:24:59,519 Speaker 1: But here's the thing. You look, I have taken, Kate 1431 01:24:59,600 --> 01:25:01,600 Speaker 1: has taken, You've taken heads. We can take them. This 1432 01:25:01,800 --> 01:25:09,800 Speaker 1: is not a sensitive, sensitive thing charitable for dollars. In 1433 01:25:09,920 --> 01:25:13,040 Speaker 1: all sincerity, you know this is not this is not 1434 01:25:13,120 --> 01:25:17,240 Speaker 1: a cop out. I I so appreciate you, know, you 1435 01:25:17,520 --> 01:25:21,000 Speaker 1: as a man speaking about how important being a present 1436 01:25:21,080 --> 01:25:25,080 Speaker 1: father you know is. And and Kate, I just let 1437 01:25:25,160 --> 01:25:28,200 Speaker 1: you know you are, you know, one of the biggest 1438 01:25:28,320 --> 01:25:31,000 Speaker 1: like film stars in the world, but you're no. But really, 1439 01:25:31,120 --> 01:25:35,360 Speaker 1: but your passion for everything is so infectious and moving. 1440 01:25:35,439 --> 01:25:38,360 Speaker 1: So I can't I can't sound like me. No, I 1441 01:25:38,439 --> 01:25:43,240 Speaker 1: can't it sounds. First I thought it was. I thought 1442 01:25:43,280 --> 01:25:45,400 Speaker 1: it was like, look, all you're so great, but I 1443 01:25:45,479 --> 01:25:50,120 Speaker 1: gotta go with Kate. Then I was like, oh, no, star, 1444 01:25:50,479 --> 01:25:54,360 Speaker 1: then you've got to pick one. You gotta pick Laura. Wait, 1445 01:25:54,400 --> 01:25:57,320 Speaker 1: we each have to pick one, you're saying, or it's 1446 01:25:57,320 --> 01:25:59,400 Speaker 1: a collective. Who do you think is the better interviewer? 1447 01:25:59,479 --> 01:26:03,960 Speaker 1: Let's do that. Oh god, you guys are this this 1448 01:26:04,439 --> 01:26:05,720 Speaker 1: is going to go on for it because we can't. 1449 01:26:06,240 --> 01:26:09,800 Speaker 1: You guys are going we just we just talked, spent 1450 01:26:09,840 --> 01:26:13,560 Speaker 1: the whole time talking about building bridges and a common humanity. 1451 01:26:14,120 --> 01:26:17,880 Speaker 1: So we're not going to be divisive right now. I 1452 01:26:17,960 --> 01:26:22,400 Speaker 1: mean it makes sense. I know. Let's just say we 1453 01:26:22,560 --> 01:26:25,880 Speaker 1: love that you too are doing this together and it's 1454 01:26:25,960 --> 01:26:28,800 Speaker 1: been and you're phenomenal at it. But you both are 1455 01:26:28,920 --> 01:26:31,760 Speaker 1: so so good at this. Thank you. It's been really 1456 01:26:31,840 --> 01:26:33,400 Speaker 1: fun and we're going to take it on the road. 1457 01:26:33,600 --> 01:26:36,280 Speaker 1: We're going on the road. But thank you guys for coming. 1458 01:26:36,400 --> 01:26:39,439 Speaker 1: This was really, really fun. It was too short. You 1459 01:26:39,520 --> 01:26:41,479 Speaker 1: have to promise to come back at my kids' school. 1460 01:26:41,520 --> 01:26:43,479 Speaker 1: That's trying to be a present moment, that's all right. 1461 01:26:46,760 --> 01:26:50,120 Speaker 1: Sibling Revelry is executive duced by Kate Hudson, Oliver Hudson 1462 01:26:50,160 --> 01:26:55,040 Speaker 1: and Simsarna. Supervising producer is Alison Presnank. Editor is Josh Wendish. 1463 01:26:55,720 --> 01:26:59,200 Speaker 1: Music by Mark Hudson, a k a Uncle Mina