Speaker 1: Lava for Good and Stand Together Music Present The War
Speaker 1: on Drugs Podcast Season two. This season, we're diving deeper
Speaker 1: into the real stories behind the War on drugs, its impact,
Speaker 1: its failures, and the people offering a better path forward.
Speaker 2: All right, welcome to season two The War on Drugs.
Speaker 3: Man. Yeah, we're back at it, Greig English.
Speaker 2: Yes, man, we've been traveling quite a bit.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we've been going independently and together.
Speaker 3: Yeah, to do some of these interviews.
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, a lot of what this season's going
Speaker 1: to be. You know, last year we are much more
Speaker 1: in the studio kind of setting that basis.
Speaker 2: For what the War on Drugs was and what we think.
Speaker 1: And I think you summarize it so well when you
Speaker 1: said that term, just like, it's not war on drugs,
Speaker 1: it's a war on people.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 4: The first season we kind of focused on the war
Speaker 4: side of it, in the drug side of it and
Speaker 4: the policy side of it, and of course we had,
Speaker 4: you know, actual people who are affected by this. But
Speaker 4: I think we lean a lot more into the people
Speaker 4: with this season.
Speaker 1: Their trials, their tribulations, them going through their own war
Speaker 1: on drugs, either through the criminal justice system, the healthcare system.
Speaker 2: It's musicians, it's athletes.
Speaker 1: It's just a wide swath of people and really interesting
Speaker 1: folks that you're going to hear a side of them
Speaker 1: that you probably didn't know about before. Yeah, we kind
Speaker 1: of want to bring that after all the doom and
Speaker 1: fucking gloomy brought.
Speaker 4: To Yeah, with the war on rugs, it's hard to
Speaker 4: avoid the impact it has, and you know that's a part.
Speaker 3: Of it, you know.
Speaker 1: You know, we talked to Liz Carmuch. She was a
Speaker 1: veteran MMA fighter, just stone cold assassin.
Speaker 2: Her nickname is Yeah, she was, she was amazing.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and she uses CBD as part of her recovery process.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: She was explaining how it helps with inflammation.
Speaker 2: And that is illegal in some places, like hemp is illegal.
Speaker 4: Uh still and yeah, and I remember last time we
Speaker 4: were talking about how the reclassification of the scheduling of
Speaker 4: marijuana would kind of open up more things that we
Speaker 4: could kind of see what would work in these places.
Speaker 4: Nobody's really taking what they're learning from the state, each
Speaker 4: individual state and applying it to the federal level.
Speaker 3: How do you think that would change?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's kind of this thing where they both
Speaker 1: work off each other, Right, So, for those who don't know,
Speaker 1: if the federal government still classifies cannabis as a Schedule
Speaker 1: one drug, which means it is the highest level of scheduling.
Speaker 2: It is the same with coke, is.
Speaker 1: Actually now right, yeah, which is yeah, it's amazing.
Speaker 3: So it's nothing.
Speaker 4: Unless you do cocaine. Maybe you think it's right where
Speaker 4: it needs.
Speaker 2: Ye yeah, yeah that's fair. Yeah, that's that looks about right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, all right, fair enough, good job, right, But.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so cannabis is scheduled there with heroin.
Speaker 1: It says it has no medical value and it is
Speaker 1: a highly likely to you know, for abuse, and so
Speaker 1: that's what it says. And so there has been a
Speaker 1: big effort at the federal level to deschedule completely where
Speaker 1: the Feds would just almost like alcohol is where they
Speaker 1: would regulate it, but on like the food side to
Speaker 1: make sure there's lot poison, not like you know, on
Speaker 1: the other end of like criminalizing it, just regulation. But
Speaker 1: what they're going to do is what the government does
Speaker 1: all the time is like try to hit this middle
Speaker 1: road of rescheduling it, make it schedule three. Schedule three
Speaker 1: is a lot of like you know, it's if you
Speaker 1: get cough medicine with coding, you know, you need a
Speaker 1: prescription or some sort of verification.
Speaker 2: You can't just get over the counter or have it recreational.
Speaker 1: So but it says, hey, there is some medical value here,
Speaker 1: there's some risk of abuse. So this is where it's at.
Speaker 1: And so the issues with all of that is one,
Speaker 1: when it's completely Schedule one, it's a criminal offense to do.
Speaker 3: Anything with anything around it.
Speaker 1: Around it, so all the business aspects to it. If
Speaker 1: you're a plumber that wants to work on the toilet
Speaker 1: in in a cannabis shop, like you could potentially be
Speaker 1: like you know, it's all these things, banks all you
Speaker 1: can't put your money in there, like all these different
Speaker 1: things that impact it. Because the Feds still say that right,
Speaker 1: research all of that stuff. So even if you're a
Speaker 1: voter and you're in a community, we say this is
Speaker 1: how we want to live and this is what we've
Speaker 1: looked at. We have medical prescribe with all that stuff,
Speaker 1: the Feds can say this is all legal, because it is.
Speaker 1: They're all living in crime right now. You know, we
Speaker 1: talked to you know be Real from Cypress Hill, who's
Speaker 1: not only amazing rap artist, still his amazing entrepreneur in
Speaker 1: the cannabis industry and has different places in different states,
Speaker 1: and we talked about the complications and not only just
Speaker 1: so much running in LA, but running another you know,
Speaker 1: it's crazy.
Speaker 4: Because there's no uniform way to do the packaging has
Speaker 4: to be one way here, it has to be another way, yeah.
Speaker 2: Right now.
Speaker 1: And it's not only the cannabis aspects that we're seeing.
Speaker 1: You know, we talked a lot about psychedelics. We're talking
Speaker 1: a lot. There's been a lot of you know, great
Speaker 1: movement there, but there's also been some setbacks and we
Speaker 1: have some great conversations with people that have experimented with
Speaker 1: them and experienced some amazing results, and we get into
Speaker 1: all that this season too, But also how you know,
Speaker 1: the policy is still kind of pushing this down and
Speaker 1: we're not going to see the full benefits of maybe
Speaker 1: some of the medical things that we could see. You know,
Speaker 1: we have so many soldiers come back from war right
Speaker 1: now with PTSD and you know, post COVID and all
Speaker 1: these things where treatment could be incredibly beneficial and again
Speaker 1: a step back.
Speaker 4: That's a big part why hearing these stories is important, because,
Speaker 4: like you said, you can hear the information and you
Speaker 4: can see it and it's easy to just oh, well,
Speaker 4: these people just want to get hide. This is right,
Speaker 4: this is one thing. But when you actually hear people's
Speaker 4: experience and how it's helped them and how it's benefited
Speaker 4: them and how they've been able to help other people,
Speaker 4: it changes your whole perspective. And I think it's got
Speaker 4: to be respected, just because these are people that we
Speaker 4: say we care about and that we look up to,
Speaker 4: and I think people just try to always go to
Speaker 4: the back, to the reefer madness. It's people that want
Speaker 4: to get hide at once to abuse drugs. And yes,
Speaker 4: I'm sure there is that, and that's never not going
Speaker 4: to be a thing. It doesn't matter if you change
Speaker 4: the laws on that. People are still gonna find a
Speaker 4: way to go around the legal things. But if you
Speaker 4: have a chance to actually help people that need the
Speaker 4: help and it doesn't change anything on the other side,
Speaker 4: why would you not do that?
Speaker 1: I totally agree at least get it out there to
Speaker 1: let's just lay it on the table, like what works,
Speaker 1: what doesn't.
Speaker 2: Like these are people's lives.
Speaker 1: And you know, one of my favorite experiences on kind
Speaker 1: of our tour here talking to people was speaking to
Speaker 1: John Osborne.
Speaker 2: You know from the Brothers Osbourne. I grew up in
Speaker 2: an Apples, Maryland.
Speaker 1: He grew up, like, you know, thirty minutes south of
Speaker 1: me and deal and just seeing this big, old, scruffy
Speaker 1: dude with like the lowest voice in the world, you know,
Speaker 1: talking very generally about you know, suicidal thoughts and psilocybin
Speaker 1: and how reached out to a friend helped him and
Speaker 1: a real amazing moment for me.
Speaker 2: And I hope you all listen to that episode.
Speaker 1: Was anything like from the tour, like anything that stood
Speaker 1: out to you, I mean, not given too much, but.
Speaker 4: You know, yeah, yeah, I got to listen to him
Speaker 4: hit the actual details.
Speaker 3: But just.
Speaker 4: Like Ricky Williams sitting down with him, that's somebody who's
Speaker 4: had his story told by other people. And I didn't
Speaker 4: see this when I watched all the stories about him.
Speaker 3: He quit because of weed.
Speaker 4: He wanted to smoke someone, and his thing was he
Speaker 4: just had to be He wanted to be honest about
Speaker 4: what was going on and how it was going on.
Speaker 4: And he said once he started doing that, it freed
Speaker 4: up a lot of stuff for him.
Speaker 2: I'm so jealous.
Speaker 1: No, and being honest from all directions is where we
Speaker 1: really want to take it, not only the benefits, but
Speaker 1: what are the risks?
Speaker 2: What is safe practice? What does that look like? Who
Speaker 2: do you need to talk to?
Speaker 1: Like all these things are important because really when things
Speaker 1: get out there and it's like, oh, this is all great,
Speaker 1: everything's wonderful, you can do whatever you want, that's when
Speaker 1: we see these slide backs because people weren't being honest
Speaker 1: the other way too, and so like it takes everyone.
Speaker 4: The effects of it. Yeah, as you wanted it to
Speaker 4: appear a certain way. And so if everybody's just like
Speaker 4: like you said, like Ricky said, be honest, or like
Speaker 4: other guests, be real.
Speaker 3: Be real, just be real man.
Speaker 2: Be real is the coolest man I've ever met of mine.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think you know you're talking about be honest,
Speaker 1: and there's no one more honest than with you than
Speaker 1: like your friends and family. And you know, we talked
Speaker 1: to two people that went through struggled with addiction, still
Speaker 1: are going through their things. To musicians Brent Smith and
Speaker 1: Marcus King. You might remember Brent Smith from Shining Down, Uh,
Speaker 1: from BacT just an amazing artist. We had a conversation
Speaker 1: with him, really cool just to hear like his story
Speaker 1: of recovery and where he's at. And then Marcus King,
Speaker 1: you know, kind of talking about what he calls and
Speaker 1: what people call like California sober, which you don't do
Speaker 1: anything else, but he does smoke cannabis. So it's interesting
Speaker 1: and we want to tell these stories from people that
Speaker 1: struggled with substances are trying to you know, work their
Speaker 1: way and recovery and what that looked like and what helped.
Speaker 1: And like I said, the be honest, it's their friends
Speaker 1: and family. The community that was around them that you
Speaker 1: see was what helped the success. It was a teacher
Speaker 1: for Marcus, it was you know, Brent's managers, these people
Speaker 1: around them that if they weren't there and that social
Speaker 1: network wasn't there, who knows where they'd be. It wasn't
Speaker 1: getting thrown into a tank and being told like sober
Speaker 1: up and clean up and then make things that are
Speaker 1: going to be okay. And so I just thought those
Speaker 1: conversations to show you know, what addiction is, how people
Speaker 1: are dealing with it, and how important it is to
Speaker 1: have those people around you have honesty, love, respect, the
Speaker 1: things that we all need for everything.
Speaker 4: People always think we're advocating for drugs right. And when
Speaker 4: you hear advocating, you think advocating for drug use, but
Speaker 4: it's not advocating.
Speaker 3: Once again, we're back to the people.
Speaker 4: We're advocating like, yes, if people need cannabis, yes, but
Speaker 4: also we're advocated for people when they're trying to get
Speaker 4: off of drugs, when they're trying to get off of
Speaker 4: a substance, when they're trying to recover, when they're trying
Speaker 4: to rehab well. I think it can easily be looked
Speaker 4: at by people that don't want any progress to be well,
Speaker 4: they just want people to have drugs.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it shows how our solutions of you know,
Speaker 1: are this one size fits all approach and what's good
Speaker 1: for me is not gonna be good for you and
Speaker 1: hitting it at the right time. And there's no way
Speaker 1: that we can have that type of you know aspects
Speaker 1: with some one size fits all approach that we've been
Speaker 1: kind of pushing on this and having a right and
Speaker 1: a wrong. There's just this array And I hope that
Speaker 1: comes out in a lot of these interviews and hopes
Speaker 1: that opens some people's eyes to be like, hey, these
Speaker 1: are people like you said, I trust and respect, and
Speaker 1: I get to hear their stories and it's not just
Speaker 1: like you said, advocating for use. Like you know, we
Speaker 1: try to hit a lot of different parts of this
Speaker 1: as you can tell, Like there's a lot of moving aspects,
Speaker 1: but it's it's.
Speaker 2: Going in the right direction and hopefully we can shine
Speaker 2: light a little bit on that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's all we're trying to do here.
Speaker 4: Yeah, the whole thing about this is about hearing from
Speaker 4: people how it's going to affect people and the benefits
Speaker 4: that it has for people. Man, were really excited for
Speaker 4: y'all to hear it, and yeah, let's get into with it.
Speaker 2: I can't wait.
Speaker 1: The War on Drugs is a production of Lava for
Speaker 1: Good and Stand Together Music and association with Signal Company
Speaker 1: Number one. Stand Together Music unites musicians and their teams
Speaker 1: with proven change makers to co create solutions to some
Speaker 1: of the most pressing.
Speaker 2: Issues in our country, including.
Speaker 1: Criminal justice, for foreign addiction recovery, mental health, education, free speech,
Speaker 1: and ending the War on drugs. Learn more at Stand
Speaker 1: Together Music dot org. Be sure to follow Lava for
Speaker 1: Good on Instagram, Facebook, and threads at Lava for Good.
Speaker 1: You can follow Clayton English on Instagram, n X at
Speaker 1: Clayton English and You can follow Greig Laude on Instagram
Speaker 1: and on x at Greg Latt. Executive producers Jason Flam,
Speaker 1: Jeff Kempler, Kevin Wardis, and Collette Wintraub. Senior producers Kelsey Stenecker,
Speaker 1: Zak Huffman, and Nick Stump. Post production by ten ten,
Speaker 1: Audio talent booking by Dan Resnik. Rez Entertainment Head of
Speaker 1: Marketing and Operations, Jeff Clyburn, Social Media director Ismati Gudarama,
Speaker 1: Social media manager Sarah Gibbons, and art director Andrew Nelson.