Speaker 1: Of the law and order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies. These episodes are based on. These are our stories.
Speaker 1: Done done, Hello, and welcome to That's Messed Up an
Speaker 1: sv podcast.
Speaker 3: I'm one of your hosts, Kara Klank.
Speaker 2: And I'm Liza Traeger. We talk SVW crime. We have
Speaker 2: celeb guests up top. We chit chat, we get.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean we had.
Speaker 1: We've had a lot go on since we last recorded
Speaker 1: an intro, and I feel like we're in the full
Speaker 1: time machine now where this is coming out so late.
Speaker 1: So if you follow us on Instagram, you're probably like, yeah,
Speaker 1: we know all of this, but we did.
Speaker 2: Or if you see us at the live shows, define
Speaker 2: spread some gossa. Also, thanks for coming to see us
Speaker 2: in the Pacific Northwest. Oh my god.
Speaker 1: We had so much fun Vancouver and Tacoma and Portland.
Speaker 1: You guys were so fun. Thank you guys so much
Speaker 1: for coming out. Everybody was I mean, in Vancouver, we
Speaker 1: took a photo, we took a video of ourselves down
Speaker 1: by the waterfront where there was this like sort of
Speaker 1: artistic rain drop behind us. When we got to the show,
Speaker 1: a woman had already crocheted us our own rain drops,
Speaker 1: and I was just like, you guys are wild and
Speaker 1: loved it. My kids are loving the rain drop and
Speaker 1: they are playing with it often. But I wanted to
Speaker 1: tell you got we willait. If you've been to our
Speaker 1: live shows in the Pacific Northwest, you've heard this. But
Speaker 1: we did go to iced Tea's star ceremony on the
Speaker 1: Hollywood Walk of Fame last week.
Speaker 3: It was incredible.
Speaker 2: It was a moment I'll remember forever, like for sure.
Speaker 1: Truly one of the like one of those things where
Speaker 1: I'm like, this only happened because I'm friends with Lisa,
Speaker 1: Like I would not have gone to this probably on
Speaker 1: my own. I certainly wouldn't have done what ended up happening,
Speaker 1: which was I was like I had to give blood
Speaker 1: the morning of, so I was like, gonna pick up Lisa,
Speaker 1: but it was gonna take too long at the blood,
Speaker 1: so she just took an uber ahead of me. So
Speaker 1: then she's texting me from the place I'm getting there
Speaker 1: for ten thirty. It's an eleven thirty start, and she's like,
Speaker 1: I'm in this fan area. It's horrible it's like a
Speaker 1: pen and they're just like, we can't be in here.
Speaker 2: You have to get us into the press area. And
Speaker 2: I'm like me, just about the pen. It's like, you know,
Speaker 2: I could be in a fan area. It was like
Speaker 2: to the side, you couldn't. Yeah, you couldn't be the ceremony. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you couldn't hear the ceremony. We talked to someone after,
Speaker 2: so it was just like just to stand there. It
Speaker 2: was it was atrocious. It was weird. I just didn't
Speaker 2: get it. But it is on Hollywood Boulevard. There just
Speaker 2: isn't room. It's not like they were extra assholes. They
Speaker 2: can't shut down this like not holl So, yeah, is
Speaker 2: it Hollywood Boulevard.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like yeah, it's like it's like to me,
Speaker 1: I would compare it to like I would compare it
Speaker 1: to like the people who wait out line outside of
Speaker 1: like red carpets or whatever. Like you can see stuff
Speaker 1: at the oscars if you get there early, and you
Speaker 1: like you can see the celebrities walk down the red carpet.
Speaker 1: But this is like such a small area on a
Speaker 1: busy street that they can't make it.
Speaker 3: That they can't make it so that you can watch
Speaker 3: it like there's just.
Speaker 1: No angle where regular people can watch it unless you
Speaker 1: stand in the middle of traffic and trust us. People
Speaker 1: were trying to do that, and the security kept being like,
Speaker 1: you gotta move, get out of here, because I don't
Speaker 1: think they want people to get like, you know, fully
Speaker 1: hit by a car in the middle of a star ceremony.
Speaker 1: But so I get there and Lisa goes, you got
Speaker 1: to get us into the press area, and I go, well,
Speaker 1: why can't.
Speaker 2: You do it?
Speaker 1: And she's like, because I gotta stay in here and
Speaker 1: keep my spot in case this is the best we
Speaker 1: can get. And I'm like, okay, Like, and I have
Speaker 1: been in a press pack. You also had like blowout curls.
Speaker 1: You looked business.
Speaker 4: I was.
Speaker 1: I was undressed. I was wearing my like jokey Wu
Speaker 1: tang jacket. But like I was like, okay, okay, I
Speaker 1: actually have been in a press box before, and this
Speaker 1: isn't like the worst I can do. The worst they're
Speaker 1: going to say to me is no, So I guess
Speaker 1: I can give it a shot. So I go up
Speaker 1: and I see this woman in a severe ponytail and
Speaker 1: a camel coat and we will call her camel coat.
Speaker 1: The rest of this time, and I can tell she's
Speaker 1: the head bitch in charge.
Speaker 3: I want to hire her.
Speaker 1: Yeah, one has a no nonsense look. She is like
Speaker 1: just fucking the bitch in charge. So I'm like, I
Speaker 1: hear her going media check in and she's like looking
Speaker 1: around and she like her and I make eye contact,
Speaker 1: and so I go up and I go, yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't know if my RSVP went through, but I have
Speaker 1: a popular podcast about law and Order SVU.
Speaker 3: And she goes no.
Speaker 1: I go, I like, she just said no at the
Speaker 1: word podcast and I go, well, I go, I go,
Speaker 1: we have like a lot of listeners and our podcast
Speaker 1: is literally named off from an iced tea quote and
Speaker 1: she goes, oh really like that like melted her a
Speaker 1: little bit.
Speaker 3: She was like, wait, why didn't you RSVP?
Speaker 1: And I go it wasn't me, it was our pr people,
Speaker 1: Like I fully like I wouldn't even tell our people
Speaker 1: we wanted to go, you know what I mean, Like
Speaker 1: I'm blaming it on anyone I can.
Speaker 3: And I'm like it was just a snuff woo, you know.
Speaker 1: And she goes, well, it's really full, like we're full
Speaker 1: right now, and I go, any chance anybody won't show up?
Speaker 3: And she looks down at her paper.
Speaker 1: She goes, everybody's checked in, and I go, anyway, I
Speaker 1: could just stay around for a little bit and see
Speaker 1: what happens. And she goes, yeah, why don't you do that?
Speaker 1: And I go, you want to write my name down?
Speaker 1: And she goes like you could.
Speaker 2: Tell she did not want to write my name down, and.
Speaker 1: I go, it's kaar And she was having a really
Speaker 1: hard time with clank and I was like, all right, cool,
Speaker 1: I'll just be right over here. I magically get a
Speaker 1: spot right in her eye line that's right outside of
Speaker 1: the media area. Casey's cracking up. You cannot believe This's
Speaker 1: like Scooby Doo shit I'm doing, and like so like
Speaker 1: I'm staying I'm right in her eye line, and I'm
Speaker 1: just scrolling my phone. I'm really just reading text from
Speaker 1: Lisa that are like, what's happening, what's the status? But
Speaker 1: I'm acting like, oh, I've got so much business to
Speaker 1: do on my phone, and her the camel Coat has
Speaker 1: like an assistant and the camel Coat woman at one
Speaker 1: point cohost it's not looking good, and I go, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'll just keep hanging out. And then I'm there for
Speaker 1: like a half hour waiting because the thing doesn't start yet.
Speaker 3: And so then when the thing is about to start,
Speaker 3: she goes.
Speaker 1: The assistant looks at me and goes, okay, you're in
Speaker 1: just you, and I go no.
Speaker 3: I was like, it's just me and my co host.
Speaker 1: She goes, just you, and I go, you cannot make
Speaker 1: me Sophie's choice this shit, like please, Like I cannot.
Speaker 1: I'd rather send Lisa in alone, like I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: just go in by myself. And so I I was like, please,
Speaker 1: we'll stand close together and Camel Coke can see us
Speaker 1: kind of having this like this one on one, and
Speaker 1: she goes, just get him in here.
Speaker 2: So I text the said I go hurry now Lisa. Well,
Speaker 2: and happened, well, yeah, because you said you wrote hurry.
Speaker 2: So I take off and a man in the fan
Speaker 2: area goes look at her, go and she's on the move.
Speaker 2: She's on the move, baby, And then the one friend
Speaker 2: A made is like, where are you going.
Speaker 3: I'm like, I think we're getting in, And I.
Speaker 2: Zipped on in and we were in the tented area
Speaker 2: like feet away from the action. Honestly, well I don't
Speaker 2: really know measurements, but we were so close, and we
Speaker 2: saw everything. I mean, we saw baby Chanel leap into
Speaker 2: Marishka's arms. We saw Coco arch her back taking photos
Speaker 2: near her daughter.
Speaker 3: We saw on all fours, by the.
Speaker 2: Way, on all fours, on all fouring the star.
Speaker 3: I'm in the back of those photos.
Speaker 1: Oh yes, If you guys see any of the photos
Speaker 1: the iced Tea and random people have posted of it,
Speaker 1: you can see Liza all I got. I found a
Speaker 1: photo on Twitter of her whole body. But you can
Speaker 1: also see just like like knees down of Lisa behind
Speaker 1: Coco while she's like sexually kissing the star of I.
Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely not good footwear.
Speaker 2: I'm embarrassed about my rebox, but it happens.
Speaker 3: But also we.
Speaker 2: Got the scoop that usually only like fifty people are
Speaker 2: in the tent or seventy, but there was a one
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty because he's so popular. Everyone was wearing
Speaker 2: funny shaped hats with feathers, and the stench of weed
Speaker 2: was strong.
Speaker 3: It was potent. Yeah, it was strong.
Speaker 2: It was I was gonna say the word robust, but
Speaker 2: that's not a word I use. But and there's a
Speaker 2: Simpsons episode with that word. But I think it can be.
Speaker 2: I think anytime you want, you can introduce you new vocab.
Speaker 2: But not only were like the SVU family strong there,
Speaker 2: but we had Russell Simmons was there, Chuck d ice Cube,
Speaker 2: Mike Epps was there.
Speaker 3: I mean it was really fucking cool.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: One dumb bitch, I would say, was the narrator who
Speaker 2: is at the host the hosts of the shes like.
Speaker 1: The she I think she's like the president of the
Speaker 1: Hollywood Chamber of Commerce that does the Walk of Fame,
Speaker 1: or she's the president of like the Walk of Fame Society,
Speaker 1: and it's like your entire life is like reading out
Speaker 1: people's names and like introducing people.
Speaker 2: She called it SUV. Let's start there. Yeah, she called
Speaker 2: it SUV. She could not say Odafin Tutuola for the
Speaker 2: life of her. I think if it was a life
Speaker 2: or death situation, we'd be attending her funeral. She could
Speaker 2: not say it. And then she said Detective Olivia Benson.
Speaker 2: And so when Marishka got up there to do her speech,
Speaker 2: she said, it's Captain Olivia Benson and we went we
Speaker 2: went wild.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was really it was cool, Like I just
Speaker 1: you know, I've met celebrities like I don't get that starstruck,
Speaker 1: but like Marisia Harkinzey is definitely a person that will
Speaker 1: star strike me for sure. And she was so close,
Speaker 1: Like I've never I lived in her neighborhood for a
Speaker 1: decade on the Upper West Side, never ran into her,
Speaker 1: and I've just never seen her in person, and this
Speaker 1: was the first time, and I was like, wow, Like
Speaker 1: she was so gorgeous.
Speaker 3: Her hair looked amazing.
Speaker 2: I loved her shoes and her hair really was.
Speaker 1: Papa, and she was with her daughter, and she had
Speaker 1: her daughter with her and it was like a little
Speaker 1: girl's trip. I think I saw on her Instagram later
Speaker 1: it was like girls weekend or something like so cute
Speaker 1: that she just brought her out there for that, and
Speaker 1: I mean, we posted this on our Instagram, and like
Speaker 1: she definitely this. This has been like reposted on random
Speaker 1: SVU accounts and stuff as well. But I really like
Speaker 1: didn't realize that her star and her mom star right
Speaker 1: next to each other on the Hollywood Walk of Fame.
Speaker 1: So she was like, this is where we're always next
Speaker 1: to each other, side by side, and I was like
Speaker 1: about to cry, like it was so sweet.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I just didn't know he was so prolific
Speaker 2: in friendship, you know, like obviously a music and acting career,
Speaker 2: but everyone really like loves his friendship and he loves
Speaker 2: them and respects people's opinions and wants to work hard
Speaker 2: and doesn't mess with the bag, you know. I mean,
Speaker 2: Casey's already doing the flag Are you out of your mind?
Speaker 2: We we have so much to say, oh my friend.
Speaker 2: So Marie Fauston did this like why are you single?
Speaker 2: Live show and she hands red flags out to everyone
Speaker 2: in the audience.
Speaker 3: They get to like wave them, yeah, because like.
Speaker 2: Single people come up and then they like make fun
Speaker 2: of why they're single. So if you're if you want
Speaker 2: to go to that show, that's the thing. But yeah,
Speaker 2: I've never actually seen a good moderator. The Pailey Center
Speaker 2: moderator I saw sucked the variety of my Like, I've
Speaker 2: never been in a place where I go, Wow, that
Speaker 2: moderator's crushing it. And I'm always like, how the fuck
Speaker 2: did this woman get this job? And why am I
Speaker 2: not moderating? I mean I don't.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I run a free comedy show on Wednesday nights
Speaker 1: in Los Angeles, and I ask every comic if it's
Speaker 1: not obvious I'm like, how do I say your name?
Speaker 3: Like I want to say their name correctly.
Speaker 1: I want to get their credits right, like you are,
Speaker 1: like that's your only fucking job as a host. And
Speaker 1: this woman like just I mean, she was smiley, she
Speaker 1: seemed happy. She did not know any information. Everything she
Speaker 1: had she was fully reading it. She couldn't say marishka hargatay.
Speaker 1: She said marishkah and she gave up after hard, like
Speaker 1: she couldn't even finish it. We didn't get a haggardy
Speaker 1: like it was not it was not good, but everybody
Speaker 1: was having a blast. I was starstruck by baby Chanelle.
Speaker 1: I'll be honest. Oh yeah, she.
Speaker 2: Is cute and she walks up on that stage and
Speaker 2: she is she loves being a part of it all.
Speaker 3: She really enjoys it.
Speaker 4: Well.
Speaker 1: It was so cute because Iced Tea like referenced her,
Speaker 1: but he didn't really say come up here, and she
Speaker 1: just got up and like walked up onto the stage
Speaker 1: like yep, I'm gonna be up here, and then she
Speaker 1: was just up there behind the podium but you couldn't
Speaker 1: really see her like the whole time next to her dad,
Speaker 1: and it was so adorable, like she just got an agent,
Speaker 1: and you can tell why.
Speaker 2: There were moments. I mean, Murushka walked right past us
Speaker 2: going on to her car, and we both just stood
Speaker 2: and waved and like we each had intentions of what
Speaker 2: we would have and wanted to say, maybe a selfie,
Speaker 2: but like it was just too powerful. It was it
Speaker 2: all happened so fast. But we got to hang out
Speaker 2: for a while after the ceremony is over. You know,
Speaker 2: there's press there and everyone's kind of chit chatting. And
Speaker 2: then when iced Ty was finally ready to go. I
Speaker 2: loved this part. He went coco Let's ride, and then
Speaker 2: they all left and we were wondering what they did after,
Speaker 2: and they posted that they went to the Hotel Roosevelt
Speaker 2: for a Roosevelt Hotel for lunch, a little lunch.
Speaker 1: I said, congratulations, Well, earlier Lisa Ice passed Lisa because
Speaker 1: afterwards it was really just a clusterfuck of people taking
Speaker 1: photos with the stars. So I see was like walking
Speaker 1: by us. We didn't want to bother him, but Lisa
Speaker 1: goes congrats Ice, and he kind of just like didn't respond.
Speaker 1: And then later I go congratulations and he was like
Speaker 1: he kind of grunted at me.
Speaker 3: So I don't know.
Speaker 1: Hopefully we'll get him on the pod and we can
Speaker 1: figure out what his mindset was that day.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Also, okay, so yesterday, no big deal. I went
Speaker 2: to a Michelin star Indian restaurant. Ooh, what is name called.
Speaker 2: It's called Sema and it's in Greenwich, and I went
Speaker 2: with Nimesh Patel, you know, a Patel.
Speaker 3: That's why we we got a table.
Speaker 2: I mean, because it's one of those where you know,
Speaker 2: you have to get up at midnight book a reservation.
Speaker 2: So but he is a famous Indian man, so we
Speaker 2: got a nice table right away. The chef came out
Speaker 2: said hi to us. We got to talk to him
Speaker 2: and then we you know, I didn't order anything like
Speaker 2: no mash keupt ordering, but they could tell that I
Speaker 2: am white and they brought me a yogurt sauce, which
Speaker 2: was fine.
Speaker 3: Because you're not a big spice girl either.
Speaker 2: Like I mean, no, I was keeping it together, but
Speaker 2: you know, the beats, yeah, the beats, head kick. I
Speaker 2: don't know what to say, but we had lobster. I
Speaker 2: mean it was really cool because I don't eat Indian
Speaker 2: food often at all because of the spice, and like
Speaker 2: I don't know, like curry is messy and I like
Speaker 2: to eat in my bed. But it was so good
Speaker 2: and it felt really fucking cool. And it's the first
Speaker 2: Michelin Star Indian restaurant in the country.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 1: Really yeah, So have you been special? I don't know
Speaker 1: if I've ever been to a Mechelin Star restaurant at all.
Speaker 1: Oh really yeah? Oh that's wild.
Speaker 3: Well, like, which ones have you been to?
Speaker 2: I've been to a bunch because it's something that I,
Speaker 2: you know, I try to do. But also this trip,
Speaker 2: I went to a Jean George restaurant called Percy Street
Speaker 2: with my and Joel, And this was actually on my
Speaker 2: list of things I wanted to discuss because this happened
Speaker 2: two days in a row and it fucking enraged me.
Speaker 2: So the one day, I was in Seattle at the
Speaker 2: Crocodile or here, and after thanks everyone that came to
Speaker 2: the show, and then me and a few of the
Speaker 2: people that work at the venue went across the street
Speaker 2: for a drink. It's last call, I mean, the bar
Speaker 2: is closing. So we're on the way out, the bar's closed.
Speaker 2: We're like bye, we're leaving, and three people want to
Speaker 2: come in and then the three people come in go
Speaker 2: could we just take one shot? And the bartender goes fine,
Speaker 2: and I go, well, we want to take a shot.
Speaker 2: So we all enter and the bartender's like, fine, one
Speaker 2: more shot for everyone, and then this bos like the
Speaker 2: one of the people that walked in turns to us
Speaker 2: and goes and don't forget guys, you know the rules
Speaker 2: if we stay late. The tip is this, and started
Speaker 2: explaining to us how to tip, and I just was like,
Speaker 2: who the fuck do you think you are? Like, I
Speaker 2: just got so pissed off where it's like what makes
Speaker 2: you think it was like man'splaining one hundred Like what
Speaker 2: makes you think that you need to tell us how
Speaker 2: to tip?
Speaker 3: It just really bothered me.
Speaker 2: Now cut to our friend knows the bar manager at
Speaker 2: this like Jean George restaurant, and we order what.
Speaker 3: We're sitting at the bar.
Speaker 2: We got there early, We're having a great meal, and
Speaker 2: then the bill comes and I turned to her and
Speaker 2: I go, hey, can you tell me what they comped
Speaker 2: so we can tip on top of it? Because I
Speaker 2: knew they were going to cover some desserts and drinks.
Speaker 2: I just knew it, So I go, let me know
Speaker 2: what was free so we can tip more. He comes
Speaker 2: up to us and he just graduated culinary school in
Speaker 2: twenty sixteen.
Speaker 3: Like he is young, he's in his twenties.
Speaker 2: He comes up to us and gives us the speech
Speaker 2: on how to tip.
Speaker 3: Thank god, I've been through therapy.
Speaker 2: But like he just goes, So, you know, I took
Speaker 2: some stuff off the bill, and customary in our industry
Speaker 2: when you take step you tip on their original amount.
Speaker 2: And I handled it well, and I try to be
Speaker 2: funny about it, and you know, like we just I
Speaker 2: changed the convo to be about other stuff.
Speaker 5: But my head, I.
Speaker 3: Wanted to be like, you think.
Speaker 2: You're the first fucking restaurant that's camped me, Like are
Speaker 2: you out of your mind? We're over a decade older
Speaker 2: than you. We we were just talking about it, and
Speaker 2: I just couldn't believe it happened two days in a row,
Speaker 2: because I was already mad from the night before.
Speaker 3: So what'd you say?
Speaker 2: I just went, oh, of course, And then Joyel was
Speaker 2: just like did I not do.
Speaker 3: That last time I was here?
Speaker 2: And then I could tell she was annoyed because it's like,
Speaker 2: why the fuck do you like? And so then I
Speaker 2: just went, well, I'm so scarred with my father that
Speaker 2: I'm always on it. And then he just started talking
Speaker 2: about all the cultures that don't tip and I was like,
Speaker 2: all right, whatever, and then it just moved on. But
Speaker 2: I don't. I just am like I don't get it.
Speaker 2: And then I had another man's plaining thing that wasn't
Speaker 2: about many. But I'm at a comedy seller. I do
Speaker 2: whatever the fuck I want. So, like, there's this emergency
Speaker 2: exit door, but we use it to go outside, like
Speaker 2: to do drugs, no, to smoke weed.
Speaker 3: It's like the cigarette stoop.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I'm exiting the door with Rob a couple
Speaker 2: of our friends, and a guy who's sitting there turns
Speaker 2: to us and goes, uh, that's not the door, guys,
Speaker 2: And I go, I can use whatever door I want.
Speaker 2: And I hope he was humiliated in front of his day.
Speaker 2: And Robbie was just like, wow, you just had that ready.
Speaker 2: She goes, this man's from out of town visiting. He
Speaker 2: doesn't know what the fuck's going on, and he's telling
Speaker 2: me what door to use or not, Like, I just
Speaker 2: don't know what happened this week where everyone decided to
Speaker 2: do that.
Speaker 3: It really annoyed me. Yeah, there's the moon.
Speaker 1: The moon is in a weird place where men think
Speaker 1: they can tell you what to do.
Speaker 2: But the tipping of it all was just like what
Speaker 2: you think, we've never been to a nice restaurant, like I, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's very confusing to me. And while we were talking,
Speaker 2: I was like bringing up La bernadett I was like
Speaker 2: bringing up all these places, like and she lives in
Speaker 2: the building his girlfriend lives and that's how they know
Speaker 2: each other. So it's like, we all can afford this meal, sir.
Speaker 2: It just it really got me going. Can you comment?
Speaker 1: I also, I mean, that's ridiculous, Like, I'm proud of
Speaker 1: you for your restraint, but I also I'm surprised you didn't, like,
Speaker 1: sort of passive aggressively rip him a new one, because
Speaker 1: that's what he deserves.
Speaker 2: Well, it's his it's her friend, you know, they each other.
Speaker 2: Whatever you want to be, you want to be cool.
Speaker 2: I wanted to be cool, but I wish, I wish,
Speaker 2: I said, do you think this is the first time
Speaker 2: a dessert has been comped for me? Yeah?
Speaker 3: Like, what are you talking about?
Speaker 1: Well, I told you how famously I went to a
Speaker 1: dinner with a friend who you know, and it was
Speaker 1: fully comped, like almost the whole meal was comped, I think,
Speaker 1: and he only tipped and he only gave like I
Speaker 1: don't know, like he just did not tip enough. And
Speaker 1: I felt horrible, but I like didn't have cash, and
Speaker 1: I was like, I can't be like, here's my credit card,
Speaker 1: can you put extra tip on this?
Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
Speaker 1: I remember now, I couldn't do anything about it. Like,
Speaker 1: but I was like, you are like a restaurant guy,
Speaker 1: this is fucked up. Also, I'm crazy. I've been to
Speaker 1: plenty of Michelin star restaurants. I don't think I realized
Speaker 1: how common they are. I've been to a bunch. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I could tell you were a search something online.
Speaker 3: I was like, well no, I was just like, wait,
Speaker 3: what are the ones in LA?
Speaker 1: And I've been to like Gwen and I've been to Redbird,
Speaker 1: and I've been to like a place of Providence.
Speaker 3: Providence I went to, which is very That's one of
Speaker 3: those like.
Speaker 6: Here's your tiny little thing with foam and a little
Speaker 6: piece of sprig of whatever, you know, like and they
Speaker 6: bring you like twenty things and you know it's cute,
Speaker 6: but everything the presentation is wild.
Speaker 1: Okay, we should get started. I know we have more stuff,
Speaker 1: but another day, another intro. We have a great episode
Speaker 1: lined up for you guys today, So this is SNL.
Speaker 3: Stick around, We'll be right back.
Speaker 2: Okay, We're in season sixteen, episode nine. We're doing Patterns seventeen.
Speaker 2: And I watched this twice in one week, and even
Speaker 2: the second time watching and I was like, wait, I
Speaker 2: don't remember anything like it was like I keep feeling
Speaker 2: surprised with this episode.
Speaker 3: I don't know why, but I.
Speaker 1: Watched it like last week and then last night I
Speaker 1: had to go back and look up a summary of
Speaker 1: it to be like just to check one thing, and was.
Speaker 2: Like, wait, that happened. Yeah it is.
Speaker 3: It is weird. It's like an episode that won't stick
Speaker 3: in your brain or something, but why because it is
Speaker 3: really good. It's shocking.
Speaker 2: It feels even more like a movie than anything. But same.
Speaker 2: We watched a prep for the interview. I watched again
Speaker 2: yesterday and it took me halfway in to be like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: I remember this. Finally.
Speaker 3: I can't believe you had the same experience.
Speaker 2: It really is totally.
Speaker 3: Fucked up and weird, but it is so good.
Speaker 2: So we open up on a big light brown leather
Speaker 2: bag and it looks like a coach bag, if you know,
Speaker 2: that helps you visualize. And it's giving off the vibe
Speaker 2: of affordable luxury. And this woman is wearing a green
Speaker 2: plaid shortcoat with matching green nails, and she's sneaking around
Speaker 2: the city. She does seem stressed. She puts her keys
Speaker 2: into a business lock and then it opens up. The
Speaker 2: metal shields of the like the covers of the glass doors.
Speaker 3: Do they have a name?
Speaker 1: Security gates, I think is what they're called, right, but
Speaker 1: a gate his gates.
Speaker 3: This is like.
Speaker 2: Solid right whatever, yeah, but hopefully and we're all together.
Speaker 2: It's like the covers. It's the covers so no one
Speaker 2: gets into your store at night. It's rolling up slowly.
Speaker 2: I could tell she wishes it was faster. She's looking around.
Speaker 2: She opens these coffee shop doors, and then an arm
Speaker 2: appears and pushes the door in, and I'm like, and
Speaker 2: then it's just iced tea, so a nice sigh of
Speaker 2: her life. And then Benson appears as well, and she's like, sorry, sorry,
Speaker 2: And then the girl is like, sorry, sorry, it's coming
Speaker 2: back to me. So we realize what's happening is the
Speaker 2: retracing steps of her attack to help this investigation. She
Speaker 2: really doesn't want to do this, but they say, we need,
Speaker 2: you know, a cognitive re enactment will help bring back
Speaker 2: some details of the attack. So in the hospital she
Speaker 2: said that she didn't have details about the attacker, you know,
Speaker 2: because it was dark. All we know is he had rubbery,
Speaker 2: thin medical gloves. He pushed her inside the restaurant and
Speaker 2: again she did barely saw his face. She does remember
Speaker 2: under his breath he was humming church music. Her eyes
Speaker 2: start to water and she recalls he also said, nice
Speaker 2: to see you again. Maybe we will have tea soon,
Speaker 2: and then he walked out, and he also took off
Speaker 2: his gloves as he walked away, and like through them.
Speaker 2: So the girl leaves with the uniform cop and Benson
Speaker 2: and fig walk and they're like, let's get CSU down
Speaker 2: here and find the glove.
Speaker 3: This is the most far fetched thing that's ever happened
Speaker 3: on SVO.
Speaker 2: You're gonna find the latex glove from days ago in
Speaker 2: Chinatown on the streets of New York. Crazy, what like
Speaker 2: it really is, like a gibbon popping out of a
Speaker 2: basketball is more like grounded than this. I like that is.
Speaker 1: The New York version of a needle in a haystack,
Speaker 1: Latex love in Chinatown.
Speaker 3: You're not gonna find it.
Speaker 1: You're gonna find it, but you're gonna find a lot
Speaker 1: of other ones too.
Speaker 3: And some are not gloves. So did that ever happen
Speaker 3: to you?
Speaker 2: When I was little, and you know, I played with
Speaker 2: all the neighborhood kids in the block, there was a
Speaker 2: kid who found a used condo and went, what it like?
Speaker 1: Touched it like that because at first you think it's
Speaker 1: it's like the thumb of a glove, and then you're.
Speaker 3: Like no, yeah, we were all really upset with him.
Speaker 2: Okay, so Finn is like, maybe this guy like stalks her.
Speaker 2: It seems like so, you know, he wore a condom,
Speaker 2: he knew how to make her pass out. This is
Speaker 2: a pro, and they know that he's going to do
Speaker 2: it again and again until they find him. So we
Speaker 2: go into some dramatic credits and we're back and holy shit,
Speaker 2: they found the glove.
Speaker 3: They found the glove.
Speaker 2: Of course they found the glove.
Speaker 3: It was in a sewer great and cool, all right,
Speaker 3: take sewer.
Speaker 1: Great, untouched by water or anything that would wash away evidence.
Speaker 2: It's just wild. And when you think sewer great, do
Speaker 2: you think the movie it or now and then or nothing?
Speaker 4: Oh?
Speaker 1: I definitely think of it. I feel like more. Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: ande then's a blind spot for me. You know, I
Speaker 1: know I've seen pieces, but I've never seen the whole thing.
Speaker 1: There's a really dramatic sewer great moment. Oh oh and.
Speaker 2: Get good stuck Oh okay, Well yeah they get stuck,
Speaker 2: but then they get pulled out. Yeah, they get pulled
Speaker 2: out by the neighborhood weirdo and then they learn compassion.
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, like the like the next door neighbor in
Speaker 1: home alone. He was just a nice man that needed
Speaker 1: to talk to his daughter and not scary.
Speaker 3: Yeah, or a Boo Radley.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Real classic.
Speaker 2: So Finn, Careesi and Benson are at the corkboard talking.
Speaker 2: Rollins walks in and apologizes for being late because coneed
Speaker 2: was on her block and the transformer was out, there's
Speaker 2: no hot water. She had a shower at the gym,
Speaker 2: and Benson's like, girl, if you're gonna come up with
Speaker 2: an excuse, please don't oversell it, and Rollins is like,
Speaker 2: copy that.
Speaker 3: But also, do you have to shower every day for work?
Speaker 4: Like?
Speaker 2: Who cares?
Speaker 3: You're a cop?
Speaker 2: Like like if my water was out, I'd be like, oh,
Speaker 2: fuck yeah. I don't think I would make an extra
Speaker 2: stop to go shower unless I already didn't shower yesterday.
Speaker 1: Unless it's been a couple days. You know, you've been
Speaker 1: playing the craps tables. We know this is a lie anyway,
Speaker 1: but what do we know.
Speaker 2: What it is? Though?
Speaker 3: And I don't think they really give clues here like
Speaker 3: for it.
Speaker 1: But you're right, I think I think they're laying the
Speaker 1: bread crumbs of the gambling problem right, I don't know
Speaker 1: where we are.
Speaker 3: I gotta look it up.
Speaker 2: I really with Rollins, she causes so many problems it's
Speaker 2: hard to keep track, you know what I mean. It's like,
Speaker 2: which season of problems is this? So they filler in
Speaker 2: and Rollin's asks about ViCAP. So Benson turns and asks like, Creasy,
Speaker 2: did you do that? And he looks like a kid
Speaker 2: who did not do his homework, And Rollins is like,
Speaker 2: I mean, it's a comprehensive nationwide database. And Creasey's like, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm about to do it. So Rolin's just takes over
Speaker 2: and starts typing in the details. So then when Finn
Speaker 2: explains that there was humming, it stops Rollins before she
Speaker 2: can even speak. Caresey's like, oh, he's musical, and that
Speaker 2: really made me laugh for some reason. When he said that,
Speaker 2: Rollins continues, you might think I'm crazy, but was a
Speaker 2: gospel music and Finn is like, yep, she said it
Speaker 2: was like a church him and Rollin says, well, in Atlanta,
Speaker 2: we had a humming rapist that choked out his vix.
Speaker 2: What are the chances it wasn't her case, but it
Speaker 2: was like around two thousand and eight, two thousand and nine,
Speaker 2: and Benson goes, well, Atlanta's an easy call for you,
Speaker 2: So why don't you do that, chrisy? You continue with
Speaker 2: viscap and see if anyone's recently been paroled or release
Speaker 2: and uh oh, Finn gets news on his phone that
Speaker 2: a sixteen year old just told her counselor at school
Speaker 2: that a guy choked her out. They head to Leonard
Speaker 2: Bernstein's school and this girl got up to move her
Speaker 2: mother's car to find a Tuesday space.
Speaker 3: So New York, Yes, so New York.
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm sure other cities have street parking, but
Speaker 2: it's just alternate.
Speaker 3: Side parking in New York is like the nightmare.
Speaker 1: Why when people have a car you have to like
Speaker 1: move every other day in case you don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean my block in la is frustrating just
Speaker 2: because it's from four to six thirty am, like.
Speaker 1: Which which is I've never heard of anything or anything.
Speaker 1: I mean eight am is the earliest I've ever seen,
Speaker 1: maybe seven, And Lisa's is like, yep, get up and
Speaker 1: move your car at four o'clock in the morning.
Speaker 3: It really makes no sense.
Speaker 1: I only wonder if it's because you're in your school,
Speaker 1: but who knows. Like I live on a grace, by
Speaker 1: the grace of God, a no changing over street, and
Speaker 1: it's very helpful because you know, Lisa leaves her car
Speaker 1: with me for like months at a time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I don't have to move it well, because
Speaker 2: in West Hollywood you always said I was lucky because
Speaker 2: my block didn't have any permits and that was like.
Speaker 3: Oh, that's very rare in West Hollywood.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I didn't get that luck in Highland Park.
Speaker 2: And I do have to move my car by four
Speaker 2: in the morning because sometimes if it's like nine AM
Speaker 2: and you get home late, you're like, man, whatever, I'll move,
Speaker 2: you know, I'll sit in a lawn. Yeah, but you're
Speaker 2: not fucking playing games that early. So this girl got
Speaker 2: up to move her you know, the car, and a
Speaker 2: man grabbed her from behind. He held latex glove. He
Speaker 2: did have latex gloves on. If you want to play
Speaker 2: a drinking game this episode, I would say, every time
Speaker 2: we say latex gloves are humming, you should have a
Speaker 2: backed down. You will be blacked out. Yeah, turn off
Speaker 2: your phone, block your ex's numbers, you will be blocked out.
Speaker 2: But I I'm already annoying how many times I have
Speaker 2: to say latex gloves. So you know, she tried to
Speaker 2: fight him, but he was bigger than her. Benson confronts,
Speaker 2: confronts her, comforts her. Of course, Benson does not confront her,
Speaker 2: and Nina continues to talk that she can't describe him well,
Speaker 2: but he was white and strong and he grabbed her
Speaker 2: by the neck and she blacked out. And when she
Speaker 2: came to, she was laying by the dumpster, so sad,
Speaker 2: and he was standing there and said, well, go and
Speaker 2: make sure to move your car so your mother doesn't
Speaker 2: get a ticket. So Finn concludes he's been watching you
Speaker 2: and for me, I'm like, why are you scaring her?
Speaker 2: Extra She already has enough trauma she doesn't have to
Speaker 2: add a stocking trauma to her like recovery. They're like, well,
Speaker 2: maybe his face is familiar, like any anyway, and she's like, no,
Speaker 2: I was face down, but he was humming. She says
Speaker 2: it was at him, but she's not religious, so she
Speaker 2: doesn't really know much about it. Back of the squadron,
Speaker 2: Creasey's like, you want to guess how many rapists sing
Speaker 2: hum or whistle? A lot? So Rollin's phone rings and
Speaker 2: it's Atlanta. It's Captain Reynolds. We hear her go, no,
Speaker 2: it's business. So someone asked if it was pleasure, so done?
Speaker 3: D yeah.
Speaker 2: While she talks on the phone, Creasy gets up to
Speaker 2: greet Ice and Benson. Ice fills them in gloves, yes, humming, yes,
Speaker 2: DNA no face no, So he targets them and knows
Speaker 2: their routines. Rollin's hangs up the phone and reveals that
Speaker 2: there are three open rape cases in Atlanta with the
Speaker 2: same emo. They have rape kits, but they have not
Speaker 2: been tested, and Benson's like, oh great, not this again.
Speaker 3: Creasy folds his arm like a true ally.
Speaker 2: He's pissed. Benson asks are they testing them now? And
Speaker 2: of course, the answer is no, they're in storage. They think,
Speaker 2: so these other cases are sixty years old, and Atlanta
Speaker 2: doesn't give a fuck. Benson asks if Rollins can head
Speaker 2: down to Atlanta and handle this, and she's like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's such a boys club down there. I'll just bat
Speaker 2: my eyelashes and act helpless careesy volunteers to go. Benson says,
Speaker 2: how about Finn Rollin's whispers thank you to her?
Speaker 3: Hello?
Speaker 4: Wow?
Speaker 3: Oh I.
Speaker 2: I didn't realize how much how disgusted she was by him.
Speaker 1: I think at the beginning though, they all think he's
Speaker 1: really annoying, like they're setting it up like he's annoying,
Speaker 1: he makes mistakes, he's like a real like uh, you know,
Speaker 1: he has definitely a glow up personally in this series,
Speaker 1: where like he becomes a person that everybody takes seriously.
Speaker 1: But at the beginning, I feel like nobody did. So
Speaker 1: they're like, I don't know if it was about the
Speaker 1: romance stuff or if it was like, I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: send you down to Atlanta with this fucking idiot, you know,
Speaker 1: like I.
Speaker 3: Can't tell, I can't tell, but she seems to.
Speaker 1: Really, you're not gonna make you ride on a riding
Speaker 1: coach in a middle seat with this fucking dumb dumb.
Speaker 2: So right at this little meeting time, Trevor Langan walked
Speaker 2: and he's ready to chat with Benson. They enter the
Speaker 2: office and it does seem serious. Finn looks at Rollins
Speaker 2: and goes, you know, it might be a good time
Speaker 2: to get away. Things are things are going wild up
Speaker 2: in here. So there's a lot going on. You know,
Speaker 2: you have no hot water, and she goes what and
Speaker 2: then goes, oh, so she's caught in a lie. I
Speaker 2: wish I didn't realize up top and then reassures to
Speaker 2: Finn she's fine, but he does not believe her. Rollins
Speaker 2: is hiding something. Wow, Finn is a good detective. Back
Speaker 2: in Benson's office, they want a hearing for fucking Noah
Speaker 2: and his health issues. They found rib fractures and she goes,
Speaker 2: excuse me, they my doctor found them and they started
Speaker 2: in infancy knock knack. Careese interrupts as to put in
Speaker 2: for overtime, and it's like, honey, it's her adopted baby's like, lawyer,
Speaker 2: can you give him a second? Like you can't wait
Speaker 2: two minutes to get into overtime? Like it's just annoying.
Speaker 2: She's like yeah, sure. So Benson's like, you know, he
Speaker 2: was shipped around from foster him to foster home for money,
Speaker 2: and now there's a hearing. He says, don't take it personal,
Speaker 2: but that seems really hard to do, and he's like,
Speaker 2: I know you reported the abuse, but they have to
Speaker 2: follow up. And she's shocked by all this, and Trevor
Speaker 2: is like, well, I'm Noah's legal rep, so for his sake,
Speaker 2: I just need to make sure you're as prepared as
Speaker 2: possible for this hearing done done, We're in Atlanta and
Speaker 2: the evidence storage area it's giant. They're walking in and
Speaker 2: Finn is like, okay, so three matching ms and you
Speaker 2: guys didn't test the kids, Like what the fuck?
Speaker 3: And Amanda tries to shut him up.
Speaker 2: And then the Atlanta cop that's there is an SVU
Speaker 2: alum hardcore okay. So he played the racist dad and
Speaker 2: raw that had his child murdered for insurance money.
Speaker 3: We cover them.
Speaker 2: He was also in Justice, which we also covered where
Speaker 2: he was in ex con who wrote letters and wanted
Speaker 2: to have.
Speaker 3: Sex with the judge's daughter.
Speaker 2: Mm hmmm. He's in eight episodes starting from season one,
Speaker 2: So he's like a true og. Like people talk about
Speaker 2: the Michael O'Keefe rule, but I think it's the this
Speaker 2: guy rule. His name is Mike with a myk, so
Speaker 2: like yeah, but he's so season one, two, three, seven, thirteen,
Speaker 2: and sixteen, and he's in four episodes as this guy
Speaker 2: Captain Sam Reynolds, and he's like, you know, the rape
Speaker 2: gets are twelve hundred of tests, so we can't really
Speaker 2: afford to test for every single rape claim. And a
Speaker 2: man does like claim and he lets us know these
Speaker 2: women were not virgins so they asked for it. He
Speaker 2: it's like, no one's a version, okay, So then he
Speaker 2: doesn't believe them. He doesn't believe them even though they
Speaker 2: also virginity is a made up concept, okay.
Speaker 1: So yes, but also do the police take an oath
Speaker 1: that they will only defend virgins?
Speaker 3: Like is that part of it? Like what?
Speaker 2: This episode has so many layers and we'll get to
Speaker 2: all of them.
Speaker 3: But I really really love it. That's why it's wild.
Speaker 2: I kept not being I kept being on the edge
Speaker 2: of my seat even though I watched it twice every
Speaker 2: nith So he doesn't believe the women even though they
Speaker 2: all had consistent stories, so like, what the fuck? And
Speaker 2: you know, Rollins is like, well, maybe if you tested them,
Speaker 2: something might have popped, and he doesn't like Amanda's New
Speaker 2: New York attitude. So they get dropped off in this huge,
Speaker 2: giant warehouse. We've seen this a million times in SVU,
Speaker 2: just boxes and boxes. So tall Finn tells Amanda, I
Speaker 2: can see why you left. But they split up to
Speaker 2: quick end the search so they could leave Georgia as
Speaker 2: fast as they fucking could. They're searching it for a while,
Speaker 2: they're breathing deeply, and then a man joins Amanda and
Speaker 2: it's our dear friend, Harry Hamlin. We've not met him,
Speaker 2: but we feel connected joined to Harry Hamlin.
Speaker 3: A dear personal friend.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: Fun fact, he was supposed to be on Watch What
Speaker 1: Happens Live with Us and our plan was to try
Speaker 1: to get him to be on our podcast in person,
Speaker 1: but the schedule switched and we ended up not on
Speaker 1: with him.
Speaker 3: But I still think we can try to get him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's uh he plays this creep in another episode
Speaker 2: and so oh that'll be perfect. But also with Harry Hamlin,
Speaker 2: obviously we say his first and last name always like
Speaker 2: her his wife Lisa Rena.
Speaker 3: And then I always think about Jackie Cox's Snatch game.
Speaker 1: Oh, she played Renna. Yeah, she's well known for Renna
Speaker 1: and she was very good.
Speaker 2: And you know, if it wasn't for Gigi Goods Little Robot,
Speaker 2: I think Jackie Cox would have won.
Speaker 3: Yes, that would have been a Jackie Cox. Listen.
Speaker 1: Harry Hamlin is kind of an amazing person because he
Speaker 1: straddles like the full trash world of reality TV as
Speaker 1: well as like he is a prestige actor like he
Speaker 1: was on mad Men, he was on La Law back
Speaker 1: in the day.
Speaker 3: Like I think he's a very respected actor.
Speaker 1: But he's also married to a real Housewives of Beverly Hills.
Speaker 3: X now ex wife of Beverly Hills. But and he
Speaker 3: he is known as a heart throb.
Speaker 2: He loves camping and he makes pasta sauces, he bakes pies.
Speaker 3: He's a real domestic and you better say thank you
Speaker 3: for that sauce, you bitch.
Speaker 2: Well, So he was on Watch What Happens Live and
Speaker 2: they played a game like can you defend your wife?
Speaker 2: And so they like brought like they kept bringing up
Speaker 2: things Lisa Renna has done, and he defended her hardcore,
Speaker 2: like he really has his girl's back.
Speaker 3: But then one thing, Andy was like did you even
Speaker 3: see this?
Speaker 2: He goes no, but I'm sure she was vindicated, Like
Speaker 2: he really has his wife's back. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So and he seems like a good dad. I'm almost
Speaker 1: a little bit it's not like you can do anything.
Speaker 1: His daughters are grown women. But I'm like a little
Speaker 1: bit surprised that, like his daughters have had so much
Speaker 1: work done. They're so beautiful already, and they're like having
Speaker 1: all this work. It just feels like they all got
Speaker 1: the Lisa Renna part. None of them got the like
Speaker 1: crunchy camping Harry Hamlin's side.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but like for him, how it's like with tattoos,
Speaker 2: Like how do you stop someone from doing something you do?
Speaker 2: Like Lisa Rena had fake lips before it was like
Speaker 2: certified medically.
Speaker 1: She has like the imblant that like isn't FDA approved anymore.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So to me, it's like, yeah, their daughters are
Speaker 2: gonna get buckle fat buckle fat removed. I say that
Speaker 2: I have no idea, but also, wuckle fat buckle fat,
Speaker 2: how does no one have scars? Like how does the
Speaker 2: surgery work? Like don't your cheeks need fat. Like, I
Speaker 2: just don't get how people were convinced that their cheeks
Speaker 2: are bad.
Speaker 1: I don't even know what buckle fat removal is. Is
Speaker 1: it to give you a more chisel jaw? What is
Speaker 1: it the indent in the cheek?
Speaker 3: Yeah, jaw? Or like what's what's that?
Speaker 2: Is that a jaw?
Speaker 3: Or is that a cheek in deck?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 3: What is that called? Oh?
Speaker 1: To have your cheeks like sucked in? You guys can't
Speaker 1: see us right now? Oh, you should release this as
Speaker 1: a video because it's really funny. Li's and I are
Speaker 1: just pushing in various Oh but it's pronounced buckle fat.
Speaker 2: But even if I try to fake do a buckle,
Speaker 2: my cheeks are so puffy it doesn't even fake buckle.
Speaker 3: It would look weird.
Speaker 1: You know, you do a good job just with your
Speaker 1: cheek tint that makes your gives you definition on your
Speaker 1: face of your cheek stuff. That's why I always want
Speaker 1: to get it, because it gives you a little like
Speaker 1: I don't know, indent.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's just a Nars tints and moist I
Speaker 2: mean yeah, no, no, no, the orgasm, it's just an
Speaker 2: orgasm stick.
Speaker 3: It's not even like a full I know, I keep
Speaker 3: needing to get it. It's I already got.
Speaker 1: The lot of people have asked us about Laura Mercier
Speaker 1: tinted moisturizer.
Speaker 2: I already got that, but I need the well No,
Speaker 2: I use the North Sinton moisturizer. But Laura Mercier is
Speaker 2: very popular and people love it a lot, and that's
Speaker 2: that's what I got. Like the makeup woman A Shanta
Speaker 2: on Michelle's show is like, Laura Mercieres is better, and
Speaker 2: I'm like, why would I? This works for me? Yeah,
Speaker 2: I get complimented all the time. So yeah, I'm gonna
Speaker 2: stick to it.
Speaker 1: Anyway, stay tuned for our buckle fat journey. I'm sure
Speaker 1: it's not happening for either of us.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's upsetting because also, like there were scenes
Speaker 2: during the Housewives where like his daughters refuse to eat,
Speaker 2: you know, the Scott dissick. I just think it might
Speaker 2: be tough to raise your children in Beverly Hills.
Speaker 3: Yes, even though none of them live in Beverly Hills.
Speaker 2: But yes, their house is cute though, because they have
Speaker 2: a breakfast book and I do really always love that. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Anyways, So in Harry Hamlin's hands.
Speaker 2: He has files, and he goes and he has exactly
Speaker 2: what they're looking for, and so they like let them
Speaker 2: search as a fuck you. His name is Chief pat
Speaker 2: and she asks if those are her rape kits and
Speaker 2: he says, well, technically they're my rape kits, but I
Speaker 2: heard you need a favor in. Rollins, with messy hair
Speaker 2: like she's been there for hours, is like yep, so
Speaker 2: that's why you pulled them before I got here, and
Speaker 2: he's like, yeah, I thought you'd come say hi, you know,
Speaker 2: and to my office, and she smiles uncomfortably and he
Speaker 2: calls her darling and she's like, actually, dude, what would
Speaker 2: actually be helpful is if you tested all these untested
Speaker 2: rape kits, and he's like, you could always start a
Speaker 2: fight in an empty house, which I like is a saying.
Speaker 2: Finn pops up right on time behind them and asks
Speaker 2: if everything is all right.
Speaker 3: Rollins intros them to each other.
Speaker 2: He says he's gonna get a rush on the test
Speaker 2: for them, but when they ask for a case file,
Speaker 2: he goes, there are no case files.
Speaker 3: It's just preliminary reports.
Speaker 2: None of these were pursuable at the time, but he's
Speaker 2: happy to hand them over since if he can clear
Speaker 2: three rapes on NYPD's dime.
Speaker 3: He loves that.
Speaker 2: Harry Hamlin leaves while saying tousuola like a white person,
Speaker 2: very very wrong. You know, I'm like the woman at
Speaker 2: the Hollywood Star ceremony. He couldn Finn Is like, eeke,
Speaker 2: So you made a lot of friends down here, and
Speaker 2: she responds that they're just making sure I know my place.
Speaker 2: So they head out to find the victims in Atlanta.
Speaker 2: The first one died last year, the second one moved
Speaker 2: to Alaska. So now we're walking up to the residence
Speaker 2: of Ashley Miller, the third vic. Amanda hangs up the
Speaker 2: phone after talking to Benson while they're walking up, and
Speaker 2: it was careesy and who has three more rapes in
Speaker 2: Vegas that match the mo So that could be our
Speaker 2: guy as well.
Speaker 3: Ashley answers the door.
Speaker 2: She's confused why the NYPD are there because she has
Speaker 2: never been to New York. They mentioned it's the two
Speaker 2: thousand and eight crime, and then what do we have?
Speaker 2: Of course, an aggressive man in the back asking WhatsApp
Speaker 2: you know, like, what the fuck's going on? She lies
Speaker 2: sim and says it's Jehovah's witnesses. She doesn't want her
Speaker 2: husband to know. They explain the situation to her, go
Speaker 2: over the details, and once they mentioned the humming, she goes,
Speaker 2: oh god, I will never get that hymn out of
Speaker 2: my head.
Speaker 3: She knows the song.
Speaker 2: So the song is leaning, Leaning safe and secure from
Speaker 2: all alarms.
Speaker 3: I've never heard that song. But I'm not a churchgoer.
Speaker 2: But and she said she can't even go to church
Speaker 2: anymore because of the attack. She's confused. She told the
Speaker 2: cops everything in Rollins was like, yeah, I know, but
Speaker 2: we're gonna do right by you and we're gonna fix this.
Speaker 2: So they ask her to go over the file just
Speaker 2: to make sure everything's okay, and she said, actually one
Speaker 2: thing is left off of the file. His pager went off.
Speaker 2: He told her other people needed him. And then when
Speaker 2: she told the detectives in Atlanta about the beeper, they
Speaker 2: asked if she dated drug dealers, and Finn responds in
Speaker 2: what the captions said, hmph, humph, hm arumph, parump. But
Speaker 2: he makes like a noise that I like. Okay, So
Speaker 2: we get the pager news. He likes to pass people out,
Speaker 2: so is it a doctor. We'll see. Rollins gets a
Speaker 2: call and just says, better late than never, and they're
Speaker 2: running it through CODIS, so that means they put it
Speaker 2: in before. So basically they already ran the DNA from
Speaker 2: the rape kits, but just to fuck with them, waited
Speaker 2: until like they flew at like they're just fucking with
Speaker 2: Rollins and they've already tested everything. So now we know
Speaker 2: it's like at least the same guy. So we're back
Speaker 2: in New York in front of the corkboard and Finn
Speaker 2: and Rolinds are presenting a group project and they're calling
Speaker 2: it Pattern seventeen.
Speaker 3: But I don't remember, why do you No?
Speaker 1: I don't know why they're calling him the Pattern seventeen rapist.
Speaker 1: I think it's because Pattern seventeen has sixteen letters and
Speaker 1: it's an episode and at season sixteen, like it could.
Speaker 3: Have easily been Patterned twelve.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Maybe that's how many victims I don't know. I don't
Speaker 1: know are like linked, but I don't know.
Speaker 2: So all we know from like, so we don't have
Speaker 2: extra details about the guy. All we know from the
Speaker 2: DNA so far is that he is white and he
Speaker 2: did do all three rapes in Atlanta. So now we
Speaker 2: have to match, like figure out Vegas, Milwaukee, and New
Speaker 2: York City. The Milwaukee is a backlog that's like so long,
Speaker 2: and Vegas doesn't know if they tested the kids or not.
Speaker 2: He goes on spreeze and it seems like he's in
Speaker 2: the middle of one right now, so they really have
Speaker 2: to do something. And now Dodds is fucking here. Daddy
Speaker 2: Dodds is here with his big ass eyebrows, being a dick.
Speaker 2: Legit sarcastically goes, well that trip was cost effective, and
Speaker 2: it's like it was, Yeah, they got the DNA, they
Speaker 2: got the hymn, they got the pager, and they made
Speaker 2: a victim feel heard in scene like that seems like
Speaker 2: worth four hundred dollars in plane tickets. Benson says, we
Speaker 2: got it, cheaf, it's just legwork, and he says, well,
Speaker 2: put some shine on it for tomorrow. She's like what,
Speaker 2: And it's the calm stat briefing on the pattern seventeen
Speaker 2: rapists and she's gonna be in the hot seat. Finn
Speaker 2: walks over to her and says, see, that's why I
Speaker 2: never took the sergeant's exam. So now we see Hank Abraham.
Speaker 2: He's unpleasant. We find out in future episodes he is
Speaker 2: a pedophile, but for now he's just a dickhead played
Speaker 2: by Josh Pais the you know, dickhead to the stars.
Speaker 2: And so he's holding a copy of the New York
Speaker 2: Ledger and the newspapers calling the NYPD clueless.
Speaker 3: And so that's what I'm confused about.
Speaker 2: Like they're mad that they're spending money on the investigation,
Speaker 2: but then they're also mad that it's not solved. So
Speaker 2: which one is it? Should we be investigating or salt? Like,
Speaker 2: I just hate it? So he asks any thoughts on
Speaker 2: the headline, and she goes, oh, yeah, I don't work
Speaker 2: for the media, you fucking piece of shit. But anyways,
Speaker 2: this is this panel, it's okay. So there's hundreds of
Speaker 2: men in uniform. I don't think there's one other woman here.
Speaker 2: And I feel like that was on purpose. That was
Speaker 2: truly on purpose. I think it was to show how
Speaker 2: hard it is to have rape or like women's issues
Speaker 2: be taken seriously when it's all of these fucking audience
Speaker 2: of men. It's a semi circle of judgment of men.
Speaker 2: Everyone's in uniforms, including Benson, who has a swoop bang
Speaker 2: with her hair pulled back and she's at a panel
Speaker 2: and she reassures them we're on it. Okay, we're on it,
Speaker 2: and she starts going into details of the case, and
Speaker 2: another man just yells and do you have anything to
Speaker 2: show for the work, And she's like it's a process.
Speaker 3: Like do none of these people ever do police work.
Speaker 2: I just hate these scenes more than everything, Like, and
Speaker 2: I know we're supposed to get angry at them, but
Speaker 2: it just doesn't even make sense.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like does she not have a track record of trusts?
Speaker 2: I know?
Speaker 3: Does she not have money in the bank? I don't
Speaker 3: understand it.
Speaker 1: But also I think it's also a lot of times,
Speaker 1: like they talk about how SVU is different because like
Speaker 1: there are living victims and it's like more complicated, whereas
Speaker 1: like all these other guys that like some of the
Speaker 1: guys on this panel might have just been like draw
Speaker 1: like vice cops, like they just chase down drug dealers forever.
Speaker 1: Like I don't understand, get your informant to tell you
Speaker 1: who the drug dealer is, like be done with it.
Speaker 1: Like it's just different, Like it involves a lot more
Speaker 1: like sexual assault crimes, just a lot more like footwork, finessing.
Speaker 2: You know, I don't know, no, because it feels like
Speaker 2: the vice cops are always like, this was a four
Speaker 2: year investigation. They're like always pissed.
Speaker 1: And it's like, are you getting brought in front of
Speaker 1: CompStat for being embedded in a drug ring for four
Speaker 1: years and you have nothing yet? Like where are we?
Speaker 1: Where are we on your drug ring? Kowalski or whatever?
Speaker 2: And then they say, well, Atlanta PD is who solved
Speaker 2: the crime for you, and it's like, bitch, are you
Speaker 2: We'd ask them to test the kids eyebrow DODS is
Speaker 2: like okay, and what about the other cities? So she
Speaker 2: starts to explain about the backlog and before he straight
Speaker 2: up interrupts and asks, well, what about the gaps in
Speaker 2: the timeline?
Speaker 3: She goes, well, maybe incarceration.
Speaker 2: Then a man who looks like he's one of the
Speaker 2: original guys on the board game Guess Who says, well,
Speaker 2: match the d and she's like, well, all other cops
Speaker 2: suck like you guys suck. So DNA collection is not
Speaker 2: always taken in crimes. And she again starts to talk
Speaker 2: about the backlog and unprocessed rape kits and Hank goes, oh,
Speaker 2: so it's everyone else's fault, but yours. She's like that's
Speaker 2: not what I'm saying. It's our problem now and we
Speaker 2: will get him. And Dods then says he has to
Speaker 2: end this early after being whispered to, and then Hank
Speaker 2: Abraham's like, well, hold up, well what do I tell
Speaker 2: the press and the Brows says I don't care, but
Speaker 2: don't tell them that we're establishing a new crime scene.
Speaker 2: So uh, pattern and seventeen rapists might have struck again.
Speaker 2: And then Abraham looks at Benson like she committed the rape, right,
Speaker 2: And then Benson.
Speaker 1: Like, if you weren't standing here at this stupid comstat meeting,
Speaker 1: why aren't you out there trying to find this rapist?
Speaker 2: It's like you made me be here, like and then yeah,
Speaker 2: Benson just looks sad, defeated, gas lit like just.
Speaker 3: Like oh my god.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So she leaves and we meet back up on
Speaker 2: the scene of the crime and presses everywhere. Benson asks
Speaker 2: for the scoop Creese and Finn and you know, everyone's
Speaker 2: in luxurious outerwear, but.
Speaker 3: This situation not good.
Speaker 2: She's twelve, that seems a little young, no, And Creasy's like, listen,
Speaker 2: Ryan Catalano, Ryan with two ends. Just if you're wondering
Speaker 2: was out walking her puppy at six am, which is
Speaker 2: so early you're twelve. Go to bed Manu so a
Speaker 2: man with gloves humming, choking all of it, but he
Speaker 2: didn't finish the rate because the dog did what dogs do,
Speaker 2: spooked him. So Finn explains that in which I enjoyed.
Speaker 2: Rollins is up there at the hospital waiting for the
Speaker 2: team and she's out, and so she explains, Ryan is
Speaker 2: out of the exam. Her mom is there, and the
Speaker 2: dad is approaching me like, oh, so you're the sergeant
Speaker 2: everyone's waiting for. Can she catch a break? No right now.
Speaker 3: By the way, Also, Noah has health problems.
Speaker 1: I mean it's like whenever it rains on Benson, it
Speaker 1: fully dumps.
Speaker 2: She's like, uh, yes, but I'm gonna go to talk
Speaker 2: to your daughter, and you go with these guys and
Speaker 2: they'll take your statement. He said. He tells the guys
Speaker 2: that he always tells her, like wait for me to
Speaker 2: walk the dog, but the puppy sleeps with her and
Speaker 2: they just sometimes go to walk together. And they cut
Speaker 2: him off, like so she walked the dog by herself,
Speaker 2: and he goes, yeah, I heard the dog barking, and
Speaker 2: that's when I ran out, but you know, helly m Max,
Speaker 2: you know, bit him good and took off, So there's.
Speaker 3: A bite, so that's kind of exciting.
Speaker 2: And then a girl who looks so young, like she
Speaker 2: doesn't even look twelve, and I think this is very
Speaker 2: deliberate casting as well. So she has marks on her face.
Speaker 2: Her mother's in a cream sweater turtleneck listening closely behind her.
Speaker 1: Can I say one thing? Yeah, this mother, this mother
Speaker 1: is my friend from college. Wow, this mother is my
Speaker 1: friend Julia Kelly from college. And so the girl is soaky.
Speaker 1: She said, what you're just like? So the band.
Speaker 2: Do you want to tell me more about this woman?
Speaker 3: Do you want to tell me how you came? She's
Speaker 3: she's my friend from college.
Speaker 2: Great, and I had nothing to add to Then she
Speaker 2: says Max saved me, which is like so cute.
Speaker 3: And they mentioned the gloves and the humming. Again I
Speaker 3: can I just I can't.
Speaker 2: And so they start talking about the car and he
Speaker 2: did try to shove her in there, so she put
Speaker 2: her headphones in the car so she could prove that
Speaker 2: she was there. So this is a little badass. And
Speaker 2: she also knew it was blue and a white license plate.
Speaker 2: It's gonna end up being Connecticut, and she keeps trying
Speaker 2: to apologize and they're like, babe, you did great. Do
Speaker 2: you remember any part of the license plate. So it
Speaker 2: was a black sedan with partials gq JS, And so
Speaker 2: we're gonna start looking for this car. CSU has the
Speaker 2: dog now and they're gonna try to get DNA. So
Speaker 2: Crasy's on his computer and finds a car that's black
Speaker 2: that fits all of this. That's like in the cameras whatever.
Speaker 2: This car belongs to Joseph Conklin. It's a Lincoln twenty
Speaker 2: fourteen MKZ for all you car heads out there. He
Speaker 2: doesn't live, he's not near any of the rapes, but
Speaker 2: he is a doctor. And it's really all hands on deck.
Speaker 2: It's like an amazing dance. It's one shot. It seems
Speaker 2: like it was one big, long shot, very cool direction. So, like,
Speaker 2: you know, what's the connection to the other states? Has
Speaker 2: he been anywhere? Like, what's going on with this guy?
Speaker 2: What we find is an open file on the DEA.
Speaker 2: So the DA has an open file on him, you know,
Speaker 2: the Drug Enforcement Administration. They've been looking at him for
Speaker 2: pushing pills for months and that could be enough to
Speaker 2: get a warrant, so let's fucking go. So we go
Speaker 2: to the staff parking garage at the hospital. They go
Speaker 2: into the backseat there, Caresi's digging in there and then
Speaker 2: a man in scrubs runs out.
Speaker 3: Finn and Rollins take out their guns.
Speaker 2: They're ready then there and he's like, don't shoot, don't shoot,
Speaker 2: which reminds me, did you ever watch that s Leicester
Speaker 2: Sloane movie Stop or my mom will Shoot? Yeah?
Speaker 3: I think I saw it a long time ago with
Speaker 3: a stell Getty.
Speaker 2: I remember liking it as a kid, but I think
Speaker 2: he sees it as one of the most embarrassing moments
Speaker 2: of his career. So I wonder if we should watch it.
Speaker 2: I want to relive it. But I do remember watching
Speaker 2: it very vividly. So they're like, it seems like you
Speaker 2: have a lot of oxy in the car, and he's like, well,
Speaker 2: I've an office out of my house that does not
Speaker 2: seem legit, and then cares and then Caresy has pink
Speaker 2: headphones in his hand and.
Speaker 3: He's like like this.
Speaker 2: So the doctor goes, I don't know whose headphones they are,
Speaker 2: but headphones aren't illegal.
Speaker 3: They arrest him, so Joseph Conklin.
Speaker 2: You're done rape, okay, baby, Then he says those women
Speaker 2: agreed to do what they did. They just wanted the pills,
Speaker 2: so he did not use his right to remain silent.
Speaker 2: I thought that was funny, okay, but I thought you
Speaker 2: were gonna laugh. I took a pause. Okay, So Benson
Speaker 2: and dous for laughter did not happen. That always sucks
Speaker 2: on stage two, where you're like, oh, I'm truly pausing,
Speaker 2: but I guess I'll keep chugging away. Benson and Dodds
Speaker 2: and he's like, yay, you know, we got him. She's like,
Speaker 2: we're holding him on a drug charge, but you know,
Speaker 2: we got to get the DNA together. But let's do
Speaker 2: a lineup right now. So the woman from the beginning
Speaker 2: of the episodes first in the lineup, she can't recognize them.
Speaker 2: The second victim also does not recognize him, and the
Speaker 2: little child does not see him as well. And in
Speaker 2: the back of the lineup we see friend of the
Speaker 2: pod Michael Kostrouf. He's watching, He's watching, but this really sucks.
Speaker 2: And the eyebrows guy is gonna be a fucking dick.
Speaker 2: I know it that the lineup didn't work, so now Finn, Benson,
Speaker 2: Rollins and brows are there and Benson stops the walk
Speaker 2: and talk and is like, the headphones were in the
Speaker 2: backseat of the car and CSU found her prints in
Speaker 2: the back seat. Browse is like, well, how long till
Speaker 2: the DNA? Rollins goes, just give us a second. We
Speaker 2: just got the DNA. He goes, you know what, fucking
Speaker 2: lie tell him it's a match. I don't give a shit.
Speaker 2: So we're an interrogation and he legit is like there
Speaker 2: is no way this has to be a mistake. He's
Speaker 2: never even been to Atlanta or Milwaukee. And they're like,
Speaker 2: can you prove it? And he's like, how do I
Speaker 2: prove to you? I was never in a city. I
Speaker 2: was never in Like what do you want from me?
Speaker 2: And this reminds me of like the the memes and stuff,
Speaker 2: where like, you know, a package doesn't arrive and Amazon's like,
Speaker 2: we'll prove it. And then it's like you just take
Speaker 2: a photo of an empty door, you know, like yeah,
Speaker 2: an empty porch. The other one I like online, like
Speaker 2: someone texted their landlord being like the hot water does
Speaker 2: it work? And they're like, can you send a photo?
Speaker 2: They just send a photo of running water and goes
Speaker 2: this but it's not hot, Like, what do you want?
Speaker 2: The Internet is really a gift that keeps on giving
Speaker 2: that will ruin all of us. Okay, so you know,
Speaker 2: the doctor's like, I don't know any of these girls increase.
Speaker 2: He's like, okay, well when you when we found you,
Speaker 2: you immediately said that you know they wanted it, and
Speaker 2: he's and he's like, well that's something else. So now
Speaker 2: there's lawyer whispers and they ask like, if he admits
Speaker 2: to a crime that has no bearing on this, can
Speaker 2: we get immunity and the detectives don't actually agree, but
Speaker 2: he starts talking anyways, he says that women in writing.
Speaker 3: He's just like, okay, here's the deal.
Speaker 2: It's so crazy, and they don't promise that it's not
Speaker 2: even in ready. All Finn says is yeah, I'll talk
Speaker 2: to the DA like that he could be talking to
Speaker 2: him about the weather, like.
Speaker 3: There was no detail. Maybe we'll see.
Speaker 2: So he says women line up to have sex with
Speaker 2: him for handfuls of oxy coda, five pills a blow
Speaker 2: and a dozen for full service. Creasey's like, so you're
Speaker 2: admitting to solicitation and pill pushing and he's like, no,
Speaker 2: they're legal prescriptions. These women are in pain, and they're
Speaker 2: like yeah, but if they have to perform sex sex
Speaker 2: to get them and the lawyer goes, Okay, we've said enough,
Speaker 2: and it's like, you shouldn't have said anything.
Speaker 3: He just said it all. Benson's on the phone.
Speaker 2: She needs to go to the Noah hearing tomorrow, and
Speaker 2: you know that's gonna be really hard for it.
Speaker 3: She wants to change it, but she can't.
Speaker 2: She has to be there tomorrow at like eight thirty
Speaker 2: in the morning or something, or that's later. Honestly, there's
Speaker 2: so no that's so different here. There's like eight Noah hearings.
Speaker 2: In this episode, Robins knocks to talk to Benson and
Speaker 2: Benson's like, not right now, and Rollins seems stunned. But
Speaker 2: it's also like, she's on the phone, you know, use
Speaker 2: your eyes and ears. Are you not a detective? Benson
Speaker 2: is so much on her plate, but the courts know her,
Speaker 2: so I don't get why everyone is so awful to her,
Speaker 2: Like she's at the courts all the time, helping people.
Speaker 2: I just it really bothers me the way she's being treated.
Speaker 2: So all right, So Benson's off the phone. What do
Speaker 2: you got Rollin's. She goes, it's not him. The DNA
Speaker 2: is back. She did. The DNA is not back, but
Speaker 2: she did it old school. She checked the blood types
Speaker 2: and the blood types. Don't you know mix? She we
Speaker 2: needed someone with a B blood. But it is still
Speaker 2: his car, So we're getting closer. Caresy walks out and says, listen,
Speaker 2: our dude is meticulous and methodical. This guy's a mess.
Speaker 2: So they're like, yeah, we know it's not him. Maybe
Speaker 2: he loaned the car, maybe he's covering for someone, Like
Speaker 2: what is happening. Benson's like, yeah, go grill him and
Speaker 2: see who had access to his car. And let's go
Speaker 2: look at the garage video footage who was driving that car.
Speaker 2: So we're at a and Creasey's talking to the valet
Speaker 2: guy who says, I told you nobody drives these cars.
Speaker 2: And he's like, yeah, we believe you, but someone did it,
Speaker 2: so let's let's talk. Creasey's like, okay, so you always
Speaker 2: park the doctor's car right here? He goes, yes, he
Speaker 2: tips extra so his car's always right up front. The
Speaker 2: law is not open to the public. Doctors, vendors, and
Speaker 2: admin that's it. What about nurses, anybody that treats patients?
Speaker 2: And the valet guy goes, EMTs, they park their ambulances
Speaker 2: here sometimes, and I feel like we're getting close. So
Speaker 2: the ambulance keys are here just in case, because you know,
Speaker 2: if there's car blockage or anything, we can move it.
Speaker 2: And so the EMTs do have access to the key
Speaker 2: area when nobody is in the booth.
Speaker 3: The valet guy goes, no, they're the good guys.
Speaker 2: Another amazing point moment in SVU in this episode, like
Speaker 2: the good guy's rape. Why is that confusing to anybody?
Speaker 3: So and he goes, yeah, they wouldn't take anything.
Speaker 2: So Finn goes, but you all these guys in right,
Speaker 2: and he goes, let's see the book. So now we're
Speaker 2: at family court, Benson, Lucy and nowhere are sitting. And
Speaker 2: now hear me out. I have a theory. What if
Speaker 2: Benson and Lucy are secret lesbian lovers. Maybe don't you
Speaker 2: think that explains her availability and interest in helping and
Speaker 2: why she's at court?
Speaker 1: Like why is Lucy at court? I don't know, that's
Speaker 1: a great question. Benson's paying her I don't know, I
Speaker 1: don't know. That's weird. That's I mean, I'm sure there's
Speaker 1: I wonder if there's fanfic about that.
Speaker 3: I'm just curious. Let me know what you guys think.
Speaker 1: Bence Bencey fanfiction, Benson Lucy fanfiction.
Speaker 2: It's just like they're at court together. I just in
Speaker 2: that moment it clicked and I'm like, they're dating. They're dating.
Speaker 1: I mean, she's around a lot for someone who's just
Speaker 1: a girlfriend for the baby. Yeah, if you left your
Speaker 1: baby with your girlfriend that much, I'd be like, what
Speaker 1: is this relationship?
Speaker 3: Am I your nanny or your girlfriend? You're right, you're right.
Speaker 2: So whatever, we've had so the woman on the stand
Speaker 2: at this court here, and we've seen this bitch before. Okay,
Speaker 2: she's been in five episodes. Her name is Chantel Jackson,
Speaker 2: and she has it in for Benson. She's been in
Speaker 2: two episodes. We've already covered Holden's manifesto and downloaded child.
Speaker 2: And they're always having issues because Benson didn't get to
Speaker 2: the hospital fast.
Speaker 1: Enough yeah, or like didn't pick up her phone on
Speaker 1: the first ring or something insane.
Speaker 2: So you know, the judge is there and then this
Speaker 2: bitch in the pink blazer is like, you know, she
Speaker 2: claimed a work emergency and lived to Lucy is like claimed,
Speaker 2: and Lucy's like relax, okay.
Speaker 3: So the lady just.
Speaker 2: Feels that like Benson should have been there since Noah
Speaker 2: was in crisis. And the judges of Queen Jush Ruth
Speaker 2: Linden is presiding and she's the one that brought up
Speaker 2: that Benson should take Noah. So Trevor gets up to
Speaker 2: ask some questions and she and he's like, so you've
Speaker 2: been managing this case for a long time, right, have
Speaker 2: you seen any shady house visits anything? She goes no,
Speaker 2: And He's like, I Noah's taken care of better than
Speaker 2: he was in any of the other homes. Correct, And
Speaker 2: she's like, I don't look backwards, just forward. And Trevor's like, okay, well,
Speaker 2: I'll handle this for you. The child's doctor discovered broken
Speaker 2: ribs healed from early infant abuse. Your agency didn't notice
Speaker 2: the abuse, but Benson and her doctor did. And she
Speaker 2: just keeps saying how Benson should have been there and
Speaker 2: shaming her for being a single working mother and live
Speaker 2: just not like is piss So she stomps into work late.
Speaker 2: But I love Trevor in this moment where it's like
Speaker 2: suddenly you're so concerned with Noah. He had full broken
Speaker 2: ribs in your care and you didn't notice, right, So
Speaker 2: she stops in a work late. Rollins is like, no worries, cutie,
Speaker 2: and brows is like, we started without you. Was he
Speaker 2: ever a cop or is he just a full politician? No,
Speaker 2: he's a cop, he is. Yeah, There's just no fucking
Speaker 2: way any of these dudes are better cops than Benson,
Speaker 2: None of them. So what suspects do we have? So
Speaker 2: we have a suspects. Albert Beck he's an EMT and
Speaker 2: some people would call him a hero, but not us. Okay, So,
Speaker 2: but after finishing his graveyard shift, he dropped off the
Speaker 2: ambulance an hour before the Ryan assaults and caught on
Speaker 2: video him driving the car out of the lot. God's
Speaker 2: is like, why isn't he in custody, and Rowlins quickly
Speaker 2: is like, it's his day off. Coreesian Finn are heading
Speaker 2: to his hold in Queens right now. We are better
Speaker 2: at this job than you, like, leave us alone, browse.
Speaker 2: Benson asks if we can place him in the other cities,
Speaker 2: and we can, and all matches up.
Speaker 3: He was an EMT in all the other cities.
Speaker 2: Benson finds it strange that for four years he had
Speaker 2: no incident though, and then started raping, and Browse is like, well,
Speaker 2: you can find it out when he's here, because we
Speaker 2: all want to know this. And all the men are
Speaker 2: waiting to meet you tomorrow morning for another meeting. So
Speaker 2: she smiles a pissed smile, like, give me a break,
Speaker 2: you losers. So now we're at the home of Lauren
Speaker 2: and beth Burns and Queen's and she's of peace of work,
Speaker 2: as they say, she's smoking, and she hates this bastard.
Speaker 2: So she says that she threw his ass out a
Speaker 2: month ago, and Crisy's like, well, what made you do that?
Speaker 2: And right as he asked, like a like a slutty
Speaker 2: teen walks in like a bad teen, and the teen
Speaker 2: is like, mom, what did you do?
Speaker 3: And she's like nothing.
Speaker 2: They came on their own, and she's like, you know,
Speaker 2: they're asking about Albert big shocker, and the teen right
Speaker 2: away goes, he didn't do anything wrong, and Crisey's like,
Speaker 2: nobody said he did, but clearly something's going on here.
Speaker 2: The teen says to the mom, it's your fault. He
Speaker 2: moved out. He hates you. And I hate you too.
Speaker 2: The mom's feelings are hurt. Finn's like, what's up, what's
Speaker 2: going on here? And the mom's like, well, she's younger
Speaker 2: and dumber. I guess he traded up or down. She's
Speaker 2: fifteen lights another cigarette. So now we're at the precinct
Speaker 2: and passed the window creasy. Finn and Benson talk and
Speaker 2: they make the connection that the attacks started after she
Speaker 2: booted him, and they were actually together in Milwaukee, and
Speaker 2: the dates of them starting to date coincide with the
Speaker 2: attacks in Milwaukee stop. So it's only when he doesn't
Speaker 2: have a romantic partner in the home that he does
Speaker 2: these attacks.
Speaker 3: I guess weird.
Speaker 1: Well, Actually, the Green River killer who killed like over
Speaker 1: one hundred sex workers in I think Washington State, they
Speaker 1: said his moments of pausing were when he was married
Speaker 1: and his wife actually is the reason saved a lot
Speaker 1: of lives. They said, like him being married to his
Speaker 1: wife saved a lot of lives because whenever he was
Speaker 1: with his wife, he wasn't killing.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: What confuses me about this is we always say, like
Speaker 2: sex crimes are about power, not sex, So are they
Speaker 2: like do they exert power in their homes or like
Speaker 2: what is you know that means it's it's more about sex.
Speaker 1: No, well, no, I think, yeah, I agree with you,
Speaker 1: But I think that like for some of them, it's
Speaker 1: like this like proclivity. It's like a thing that they
Speaker 1: they can if they like focus on it, they cannot
Speaker 1: do it, like I don't want to. I don't even
Speaker 1: know what I'm trying to say.
Speaker 2: I yeah, or maybe like they have like they feel
Speaker 2: powerful when they have consistent a partner or taking care,
Speaker 2: and then they feel powerless when they're dumped.
Speaker 1: I don't know, yeah, or I mean in some cases
Speaker 1: they're probably taking out, yeah, some of the power scenarios
Speaker 1: on their partner.
Speaker 3: But like with the Green River killer, I feel like he.
Speaker 1: Had this like like you know, horrible proclivity that he
Speaker 1: just wanted to murder, and then when he was like
Speaker 1: playing the role of a husband, he was able to
Speaker 1: like push it down and then it would come back
Speaker 1: out again.
Speaker 3: I don't know. Great question for the psychiatrists, psychologists, Listener.
Speaker 2: And Green River's in the Pacific Northwest, Raight, I feel
Speaker 2: like people were really talking about him while we were
Speaker 2: just there. We haven't covered him, right.
Speaker 1: No, No, I don't think anyone on the show has
Speaker 1: ever killed? Like, I think he's the most prolific serial killer?
Speaker 1: Wait really yeah, because they don't know. But I think
Speaker 1: they think he's killed like one hundred sex workers because
Speaker 1: he was active for like decades, I think. But you know,
Speaker 1: it's like some of the bodies were never found and
Speaker 1: some people are attributed to it. So I don't I
Speaker 1: don't know. It's hard to say. I think who's the
Speaker 1: most prolific. But I read once that he was all right,
Speaker 1: so and we're back, why did he stop? YadA YadA?
Speaker 1: But where is he now?
Speaker 2: So they're kind of discussing, and Finn is like, the
Speaker 2: daughter knew right away something was going down, and she
Speaker 2: sent him warning texts before we took all their cell phones,
Speaker 2: so we might know something. But Judge Linda is texting
Speaker 2: Benson right now, how's eight thirty tomorrow morning? Benson goes
Speaker 2: fine and then spells thanks THHX. And I don't feel
Speaker 2: like Benson would do that, do you.
Speaker 4: She's a woman on the go.
Speaker 2: I write THHX sometimes I'd like to see it. Caresee
Speaker 2: doesn't like her texting, and he's like, are you with us?
Speaker 2: That's your boss? Yeah? Now, Caresee's got an attitude. So
Speaker 2: Benson's like, yes, okay, what do you think like statutory rape?
Speaker 2: Like I'm listening, I'm better than all of you, and
Speaker 2: he's and then someone's like the teen's on a tight leash,
Speaker 2: and she's like she's a teen, Like she like she's
Speaker 2: gonna find ways to get around the leash. So you know,
Speaker 2: she's like, she messaged him Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, like can
Speaker 2: we like get to work without me having a babysit
Speaker 2: you guys. Benson flings her phone down. It's like, Rolins,
Speaker 2: let's go fucking solve this quickly. So they go in
Speaker 2: there and the teen is amazing, I love her. She goes,
Speaker 2: you guys are wrong, Albert is being persecuted. I just
Speaker 2: feel like she's my daughter. I really like her. And
Speaker 2: the mom is like, baby girl, are you not listening.
Speaker 2: The cops are saying he's a rapist, he is a
Speaker 2: dangerous man, and they're pleading with her to give scoop
Speaker 2: and she's like, I don't know anything. The mom is
Speaker 2: like come on, and Rollins is like, okay, well we
Speaker 2: saw your sexts and that's photos of miners and so
Speaker 2: if you don't help us out, we're gonna charge you
Speaker 2: with child sex abuse images childborn baby. That's a felony.
Speaker 2: You created it, you sent it. It's gonna be your
Speaker 2: jail time. She goes, you can't do that, and Benson goes,
Speaker 2: we can, and then looks at the mom and the
Speaker 2: mom is like, are you serious, and Benson goes and
Speaker 2: it was your phone under your name, so we can
Speaker 2: charge you as well. The White Trash Duo look nervous.
Speaker 2: And so now we're in Washington Square Park near the arch.
Speaker 2: It's like a very beautiful place to be, and finnis
Speaker 2: playing chess. The teen is under the arch. It's like
Speaker 2: a spy game, sting operation. Albert approaches the teen and goes, Bethy, baby,
Speaker 2: I missed you, so you finally ditched the bitch and
Speaker 2: she goes run and he's like what, and she just
Speaker 2: keeps saying run, Run, run. So he's trying to run,
Speaker 2: but he's surrounded. It's not gonna happen. Iced he clocks
Speaker 2: his ass, he falls, and then as he pulls him
Speaker 2: up and goes, ktch your ass up, the guy grunts,
Speaker 2: you know, but he's going down. So he's bald. He's
Speaker 2: arrested and he's humming the song that the women said.
Speaker 2: The woman from Atlanta said that he was singing over
Speaker 2: and over humming it. This guy's done. So the dog
Speaker 2: bite he has dog bites. The DNA from the dog
Speaker 2: match Atlanta DNA confirms like we got him, He's got
Speaker 2: And what sucks is he has salutations for his heroism
Speaker 2: and he's active in the church choir. It's all very strange.
Speaker 2: And not only all of this, but his ass is
Speaker 2: going down for child porn. So you know, but how
Speaker 2: do we get him on the charges in all the
Speaker 2: other states. Maybe a confession, but like, why would he
Speaker 2: confess to more like but they're like, you never know,
Speaker 2: it's television.
Speaker 3: Let's see what we can do. Let's go push some buttons.
Speaker 2: So Carisiu and Fino in there and he says, I'm
Speaker 2: not saying anything, and Finn goes, you don't have to
Speaker 2: you're going down, baby, We got you on an attempted
Speaker 2: rape of a twelve year old girl and child porn.
Speaker 3: Ye done.
Speaker 4: So.
Speaker 2: Then Baldy speaks and is like, she set me those
Speaker 2: and they're like, we thought you weren't talking. Finn goes
Speaker 2: and don't worry about a baby, claps his hands in
Speaker 2: front of him, like in a way that's asmar for me,
Speaker 2: Like I watched that ten times. I loved the way
Speaker 2: he clapped his hands in front of his body and says,
Speaker 2: you're done and you don't even know it, and then leaves.
Speaker 2: He's left with Careesy alone. He asks, okay, so, oh
Speaker 2: what was that about? And Creasey says, well, between you
Speaker 2: and me, we've got you on a few other rapes,
Speaker 2: but Tutuola doesn't even want to charge you with those,
Speaker 2: and Baldy scoffs and asks what he's like, Well, we
Speaker 2: don't want to send you to prison as some sort
Speaker 2: of badass serial rapists. We would rather you go there
Speaker 2: for child raping kiddie porn and see how you fend
Speaker 2: for yourself.
Speaker 3: He gets nervous.
Speaker 2: Creasy continues, you kept up that hero emt profile for
Speaker 2: a long time and then everybody fooled. But in prison,
Speaker 2: all anybody is going to know is that you're a pedophile.
Speaker 3: He does not like the sound of this.
Speaker 2: He says, he is not a pedophile, and he is
Speaker 2: sex with women, and it is also rare to have
Speaker 2: so many different age ranges of attack, like yeah, that's
Speaker 2: like not a car.
Speaker 1: Why did you go for this little girl who looks
Speaker 1: even younger than twelve?
Speaker 3: Like it's yeah.
Speaker 2: So Creasy's like yeah right, and he keeps going and
Speaker 2: I love this angle. Whoever wrote this episode, fuck yeah, congratulations,
Speaker 2: Like I love what is happening here, and he goes, listen,
Speaker 2: we know that you committed rapes all across this country
Speaker 2: for years, evading police. But they're not going to test
Speaker 2: the DNA, so no, but he's gonna know about it,
Speaker 2: only you and I. That's where it is. And he
Speaker 2: gets up and he says, you're rap sheet in prison.
Speaker 2: That's your reputation. So he thinks you know and goes, wait,
Speaker 2: there's more. There's more than you know, a lot more
Speaker 2: so Careesy walks back in looks over his shoulder to
Speaker 2: Finn and Benson like a little wink, and Finn is like, hey,
Speaker 2: I like the new kid, and Rollins has some annoying
Speaker 2: news though. After this cool win, Dodds wants to see
Speaker 2: everyone at her at Comstat at eight am, but she
Speaker 2: has to meet for baby no way a thirty. What
Speaker 2: is going to happen? Rollin says it didn't sound like
Speaker 2: a request, and it's like, now she caught him you're
Speaker 2: still mad she caught him.
Speaker 3: What do you mean it's that you're gonna be pissed
Speaker 3: she caught him. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So we cut to her thanking the judge for meetings
Speaker 2: so early, and she's like, well, I appreciate you making
Speaker 2: the time, sergeant, and they're gonna have, you know, have
Speaker 2: some chats. She wanted to talk before the ruling, just
Speaker 2: to make sure, and basically she says, listen. The judge
Speaker 2: tells Benson, if you're in a situation you can't handle,
Speaker 2: that's fine. Like you thought you could handle it, you can't.
Speaker 2: There's no shame, no biggie, I will not judge you,
Speaker 2: and she goes, I like you a lot, but my
Speaker 2: main priority is Noah. And now during the meeting, Benson's
Speaker 2: phone is buzzing and buzzing and Dodds has no fucking boundaries.
Speaker 2: Benson says, my priority is to Noah. I'm not taking
Speaker 2: this call. I need to be here, and she wants
Speaker 2: the judge to understand her priority as Noah's well being,
Speaker 2: health and happiness, and that she could not love him
Speaker 2: more and she's going to prove that to her and
Speaker 2: Child Services, and the judge is like, don't promise me,
Speaker 2: promise Noah, Benson nods. So then Benson is running into
Speaker 2: Dods outside and DoD's like cutting it close, and She's like,
Speaker 2: I'm fucking here. I would hate to have such an
Speaker 2: early day. I would really not like this to be
Speaker 2: my life. And they go in there and she gives
Speaker 2: them the info pattern seventeen rapist has confessed three rapes
Speaker 2: in NYC and twenty eight other rapes in multiple cities,
Speaker 2: and there might be more. Again, this episode is just
Speaker 2: so poignant, shoving the point down your throat test rape kits,
Speaker 2: you fucking piece of shit. Men in charge of everything.
Speaker 2: Some loser bitch said, well, so many rapes couldn't SV
Speaker 2: you do something differently, and it's like, you mean, solve
Speaker 2: the case, have a confession. Yeah, she says, we did
Speaker 2: our jobs, but the fact is we are reliant on
Speaker 2: other jurisdictions when their purpse come to us. And Hank
Speaker 2: is like, okay, so I'm hearing there's a communication issue,
Speaker 2: So how are we gonna improve your communication? And now
Speaker 2: even Dodds loser ass is defending Benson and he goes, Hank,
Speaker 2: the issue is not communication. There's a national rape kit
Speaker 2: backlog issue. Here and let let's let Sergeant Benson continue,
Speaker 2: and she says, we caught him in a week after
Speaker 2: his first assault here, and the brutal truth is all
Speaker 2: New York assaults could have and should have been prevented.
Speaker 1: And they wouldn't have caught him if they didn't have
Speaker 1: a fucking random detective from Atlanta on the squad, Like
Speaker 1: they wouldn't have Yeah, you know, Albert Beck is a
Speaker 1: career rapist who's moved from state to state year after year.
Speaker 2: But because of many cities have underfunded departments, and many
Speaker 2: cities do not regard crimes against women. Seriously, they never
Speaker 2: tested thousands of their rape kits. What's the point of
Speaker 2: having a national DNA database if the rapist DNA is
Speaker 2: never entered into it? Dramatic music As we slide on
Speaker 2: over to Rollins, she's on the phone at the office
Speaker 2: with Atlanta filling them in. Harry Hammil's like, great news, Amanda,
Speaker 2: I'm glad we were there to help, and then says,
Speaker 2: you know, I still think we work real well together.
Speaker 2: And he's saying all this as he's watching a woman's
Speaker 2: ass as she's like walking in the office's and Amanda's
Speaker 2: like okay, bye, Chief, and he says, well, I'm coming
Speaker 2: up to New York in January for a conference. Maybe
Speaker 2: we can get a drink for full time sake. Amanda
Speaker 2: does not look happy with this and makes a face
Speaker 2: like I can't even believe he would suggest this, and
Speaker 2: she says maybe you know, I work long hours, and
Speaker 2: he's like, you know how I am. I don't take
Speaker 2: no for an answer. Rollin slowly hangs up. Finn is like,
Speaker 2: is everything okay, and she lies and says it's all good, Finn,
Speaker 2: It's all good. She breathes in and out, and that's
Speaker 2: dick Wolf baby. Ooh, A good one, A good one.
Speaker 2: All right, don't go anywhere. We'll be right back with
Speaker 2: some crime, okay. So, as we can see by the
Speaker 2: very end of.
Speaker 1: The episode, this is obviously a Marishka Hargate like episode
Speaker 1: where she probably pushed it through because the national backlog
Speaker 1: of rape kits is a huge passion project for her
Speaker 1: and the Joyful Heart Foundation, which is her foundation. So
Speaker 1: I'm sure, like you know, she was like, we need
Speaker 1: to do an episode that focuses on this. So the episode,
Speaker 1: one of the inspirations is the rape kit backlog, and
Speaker 1: I guess uh, just going off of information from the
Speaker 1: joyful Heart site, which has a huge amount of information
Speaker 1: about ending the backlog.
Speaker 3: There's two distinct problems.
Speaker 1: One is that rape kits are collected and booked into evidence,
Speaker 1: but then detectives and prosecutors never send it, never asked
Speaker 1: for DNA analysis. And another is that rape kits are
Speaker 1: collected and then send to a crime lab for testing,
Speaker 1: but then they just stay in line in like an
Speaker 1: endless line, and they await DNA analysis for months, even years,
Speaker 1: and in some cases indefinitely.
Speaker 3: So I don't know if.
Speaker 1: Labs like lose it or file it away on a
Speaker 1: shelf for do this on a day where we don't
Speaker 1: have any work. I don't know, but these are the
Speaker 1: two problems, and these untested or unsubmitted kits are considered
Speaker 1: anything that's not sent off or booked into evidence after
Speaker 1: thirty days. So the website we're going to actually talk
Speaker 1: about it in sister peg. But the website has like
Speaker 1: a map of what states. I know Murrishka has been
Speaker 1: posting they just cleared backlogs in a couple of states,
Speaker 1: so that's really good. Some jurisdictions don't even have systems
Speaker 1: for counting or tracking rape kits, so we can't even
Speaker 1: be sure the total number of untested rape kits are
Speaker 1: an istionwide. It's upset to see that California has one
Speaker 1: of the biggest numbers, but also California is one of
Speaker 1: the most populous states. So but additionally, there is no
Speaker 1: federal law mandating the tracking and testing of rape kits,
Speaker 1: so hopefully that's legislation that can pass at some point
Speaker 1: when the GOP's not in charge. And it's estimated that
Speaker 1: there are hundreds of thousands of untested kits in police
Speaker 1: and crime lab storage facilities throughout the country. So obviously
Speaker 1: a huge problem and a basis for this episode. But
Speaker 1: another one is very interesting crime that I had not
Speaker 1: heard anything.
Speaker 2: It's like it's all such gas ladies shit too, because
Speaker 2: it's like you like people always say go to the cops,
Speaker 2: like go to the cops, and then it's like cops
Speaker 2: are actively not caring, and it's like people won't just submit,
Speaker 2: cops don't care. Yeah, they're yeah, they are not testing
Speaker 2: or prioritizing rape kits at all, and it's still seen
Speaker 2: as like this haven of justice while they actively are
Speaker 2: doing everything they can to not do it. It's like
Speaker 2: it's so fucking twisted. It really, I mean, it bothers.
Speaker 3: All of us. I'm sure listening.
Speaker 1: Yes, And rape kits are very like invasive. I mean
Speaker 1: it's like you've just gone through a trauma and then
Speaker 1: you have to go to a doctor and be poked
Speaker 1: and prodded and photographed and all this stuff. So it's
Speaker 1: like a veryvasive, invasive process.
Speaker 3: To go through. Have you heard about this girl.
Speaker 1: This this young twenty three year old, twenty four year
Speaker 1: old girl. They just did a big article about her,
Speaker 1: someone The Cut or somebody about she's trying to do
Speaker 1: at home rape kits and she raised all this money
Speaker 1: for it. She raised like millions of dollars in like
Speaker 1: venture capitalists like funding. But like it's a crazy idea,
Speaker 1: Like because the chain of custody, none of it would
Speaker 1: ever be admitted. So it's like and no one has
Speaker 1: bought one, and the girl's like the idea is going
Speaker 1: to work, and everyone's like.
Speaker 3: It's giving the dropout.
Speaker 1: Like it's really weird, this girl that's trying to do
Speaker 1: these at home. It's also like I'm just saying, I
Speaker 1: see where the girl's idea came from. Because going to
Speaker 1: get a rape kit is definitely difficult and a traumatic experience,
Speaker 1: and then to not have it tested, not have it
Speaker 1: sent to the right place, it's just such a failure
Speaker 1: to women and victims on every level. And yeah, agree,
Speaker 1: It's like when you keep sending out this message that
Speaker 1: this is what happens, women aren't going to report and
Speaker 1: they're not going to go to the hospital and get
Speaker 1: get tested, and then you're just gonna let predators roam
Speaker 1: free and keep doing this shit.
Speaker 2: So yeah, the fact that the Lands how they had
Speaker 2: three similar mos and they still thought every one of
Speaker 2: those women were lying because they weren't virgins.
Speaker 3: It's like it's just upsetting.
Speaker 1: But I do feel like Marishka Hargete, like specifically and
Speaker 1: the Joyful Heart Foundation have like done a lot.
Speaker 3: She made a documentary about it.
Speaker 1: That got a lot of press, Like she's done a
Speaker 1: lot to work on the ending the backlog and just
Speaker 1: hearing that certain states are clearing their backlogs is like
Speaker 1: hope is like gives me some hope that hopeful that
Speaker 1: we can you know, pass legislation or get this moving
Speaker 1: in the future.
Speaker 3: It's like, I don't know what you have to do
Speaker 3: if you're a victim.
Speaker 1: You have to just keep calling the cops and say,
Speaker 1: did you guys submit my rape kit?
Speaker 5: Yet?
Speaker 3: What did you guy? Did you guys do it yet?
Speaker 3: Like I don't understand what you're supposed to do.
Speaker 2: But no, because then because then you're hysterical, and then
Speaker 2: they're gonna be like, oh, she's just a looney tune
Speaker 2: or something like. Right, there's no winning.
Speaker 3: There's really no reaction. Is no reaction is the right reaction?
Speaker 1: Okay, so I'm going to move on to the crime
Speaker 1: that this was loosely based on, which are the crimes
Speaker 1: of Charles William Davis Junior. And it's very wild because
Speaker 1: there is like no information on this case. I could
Speaker 1: only find one photo of this man and his head
Speaker 1: is down.
Speaker 3: You can't even see his face.
Speaker 1: I did not join a free trial for newspapers dot
Speaker 1: Com because I didn't want to get Wichita Eagle like Lisa.
Speaker 1: But like almost every single article I found for this
Speaker 1: was a scan of.
Speaker 3: A newspaper article.
Speaker 1: And these these crimes only happened in the seventies, Like
Speaker 1: there's there's usually more information, and it was just really
Speaker 1: difficult to find out info about this guy.
Speaker 3: But I'll get into it now. Charles William Davis Junior.
Speaker 1: He grew up the son of a police lieutenant in Baltimore, Maryland.
Speaker 1: This is where he was born in the late forties.
Speaker 1: From his twenties on, he had a bunch of different jobs,
Speaker 1: including electrician and security guard, and he was also a
Speaker 1: member of the Baltimore Volunteer Rescue Squad. So that's where
Speaker 1: they get this ambulance driver hero idea that they did
Speaker 1: in the episode, which is there is something much scarier
Speaker 1: when a guy's just a psycho, or when a guy's
Speaker 1: a pretend hero. Who's a psycho, you know, a psycho
Speaker 1: pretending to be a hero. It's just like be a psycho,
Speaker 1: I don't know, just be a straight up psycho. It's
Speaker 1: a lot more palatable.
Speaker 3: Oh no, they have to that's their cover, I know.
Speaker 2: But it happens to work in the church and coach
Speaker 2: little League and you know, be Yeah.
Speaker 1: It's how they get their I know. It's just so
Speaker 1: so scary. So in the early seventies, this guy Davis
Speaker 1: is in his early twenties and he took he took
Speaker 1: courses to become a lab tech.
Speaker 3: At one point. He's married.
Speaker 1: He has a son, after his divorce, he moves in
Speaker 1: with a single mom named Bonnie Kellner, whom he met
Speaker 1: while volunteering. Like people think that through his like volunteer
Speaker 1: quote unquote hero job, he made connections with local law
Speaker 1: enforcement and was able to kind of like study their.
Speaker 3: Methods and evade capture.
Speaker 1: Sure, but also later he's profiled as like a police
Speaker 1: buff because his dad's a police officer too, so he's
Speaker 1: like he kind of knows the ins and outs of
Speaker 1: probably basic forensics, how to commit.
Speaker 3: Crimes and get away with it.
Speaker 1: So in late nineteen seventy four, Davis witnessed a traffic accident.
Speaker 3: This is his first attack.
Speaker 1: He offers to help this twenty three year old woman
Speaker 1: in the accident, and by help her, I mean he
Speaker 1: drags her to a close wooded area, sexually assaults her
Speaker 1: and almost strangles her to death. And I say almost
Speaker 1: only because she went unconscious and he thought she was dead,
Speaker 1: and so he left. But she came to and she
Speaker 1: made her way to medical attention, and she reported the
Speaker 1: incident to the police. They worked up a sketch of
Speaker 1: the attacker. But you know nothing in nineteen seventy five,
Speaker 1: for nothing, you know conclusive to get him yet. Now
Speaker 1: September eleventh, nineteen seventy five, Davis is twenty six. He's
Speaker 1: at a bar drinking and smoking weed with a pal.
Speaker 1: They meet two girls. One of these girls is Lydia
Speaker 1: Victoria Norman, sixteen years old. They go out to a diner,
Speaker 1: then they go to a remote area near the Baltimore
Speaker 1: Airport where they drink more.
Speaker 3: They make out. He asks her to have sex.
Speaker 1: She turns him down, so obviously, he strangles her to death,
Speaker 1: drags her body out of the car, and then dumps
Speaker 1: her on the ground. But she was found fully closed,
Speaker 1: so I don't think he ever actually went through a
Speaker 1: sexual assault for this case, but just being turned down
Speaker 1: by a woman angered him to murder the point of
Speaker 1: murder she did have. She was also found with a
Speaker 1: license like a fake idea that said she was eighteen,
Speaker 1: so I guess that's why she was in bars, but
Speaker 1: she was sixteen.
Speaker 3: She was a high school student.
Speaker 1: So a few months later, Davis loses custody of his son,
Speaker 1: so he decides to assault a female social work.
Speaker 3: I don't know if they were like tying this in with.
Speaker 1: Like Benson and the custody stuff, but he decides to
Speaker 1: assault a female social worker who he believed was the
Speaker 1: reason behind him losing custody. So on New Year's Eve,
Speaker 1: he lures her from a nightclub and everything I keep
Speaker 1: reading says he lures her. He lures her, And I'm like,
Speaker 1: how does he lure her out of out the parking lot?
Speaker 3: And here's how he does it.
Speaker 1: He gets her license plate number of this of the woman,
Speaker 1: and he calls the club and says, can you ask
Speaker 1: this woman to come this person to come out and
Speaker 1: move their car. They're blocking me in so over the
Speaker 1: PA system at the club they go, uh, license plate
Speaker 1: four three seven, one h whatever, Come on out, you're
Speaker 1: blocking someone. He gets her out there, he gets her
Speaker 1: into his car. He realizes it's the wrong fucking woman.
Speaker 1: It's not the woman that he is related to his case.
Speaker 1: It's her name is Kathleen Diane Cook. She's twenty four,
Speaker 1: she has no relation to the court case. And she's like,
Speaker 1: get me the fuck out of here. And she tells
Speaker 1: him that her father in law is a state police
Speaker 1: lieutenant colonel, so very high up in the state police.
Speaker 1: But he doesn't that doesn't really spook him. He sexually
Speaker 1: assaults her and then after he's done. I read a
Speaker 1: couple different accounts. One of them she said, oh, does
Speaker 1: that make you feel like a big man? Or and
Speaker 1: that she kept like sort of humiliating him and calling
Speaker 1: him impotent and bad with woman, and so this pissed
Speaker 1: him off, and he shot her four times with a
Speaker 1: thirty eight revolver. So, according to a lot of the
Speaker 1: newspapers I read, that's what killed her. She was shot
Speaker 1: to death. But Wikipedia says that the gunshots miraculously didn't
Speaker 1: kill her, and that she ran and Davis caught her
Speaker 1: and stabbed her. But there's no mention of this anywhere
Speaker 1: else but or sources to it. But there's also so
Speaker 1: little info about this murder that I'm just including it.
Speaker 1: But I can't back that claim up. The newspapers say
Speaker 1: that the gunshots are what killed her. So now this
Speaker 1: woman is dead. And now it's August twenty fourth, nineteen
Speaker 1: seventy six, almost nine months later. Davis is driving along
Speaker 1: I ninety five when a woman approaches him for directions
Speaker 1: to the Chesapeake Bay Bridge. And this woman is Peggy
Speaker 1: Ellen Pumpian. She's twenty three years old. They chat briefly,
Speaker 1: she drives off. He starts to follow her. He then
Speaker 1: forces her to pull over, claiming that, oh, I can
Speaker 1: show you another route. I don't know how this happened.
Speaker 1: She somehow lets him inside her car. He starts drawing
Speaker 1: a map in pencil, but then he pulls out a
Speaker 1: gun and demands money from her. And so after he
Speaker 1: robs her, he does sexually assault her at gunpoint and
Speaker 1: then attempting to escape, she hits him in the face,
Speaker 1: which causes a huge fight, and in the fight he
Speaker 1: shoots her five times in the chest, killing her. Then
Speaker 1: he wipes his prints from the car because as we know,
Speaker 1: he knows a little bit about copping and you know, investigation,
Speaker 1: So he wipes his princes from the car leaves, and
Speaker 1: then he heads to New York to like establish an
Speaker 1: alibi for himself. Peggy's body is discovered eight hours later.
Speaker 1: The ballistics were matched to show that it was the
Speaker 1: same gun used to kill Kathleen Diane Cook. So now
Speaker 1: these two cases are connected, these to Baltimore cases. A
Speaker 1: few places I read which they did not put this
Speaker 1: in the episode, but I think they've put stuff like
Speaker 1: this in other episodes. A few places I read said
Speaker 1: that he liked the attention and that after he killed
Speaker 1: the victims, he would call authorities and tell them where
Speaker 1: the assaults were or where the bodies were to be found.
Speaker 1: But other people said that he would call authorities and
Speaker 1: emergency services to report the assaults, and he would leave
Speaker 1: the bodies on his own root so that he'd be
Speaker 1: the one to go retrieve the body that he himself
Speaker 1: had killed.
Speaker 3: So again, I.
Speaker 2: Can't verify this.
Speaker 1: I'm reading this in places that don't have sources, like
Speaker 1: murder Pedia, and every article about this man is like
Speaker 1: a scam from a newspaper.
Speaker 3: So I don't know if that's true.
Speaker 1: But that's what a lot of like Reddit and like
Speaker 1: a lot of places are like, you wouldn't believe this
Speaker 1: serial killer. He killed women and then called the ambulance
Speaker 1: and he was the ambulance driver, blah blah blah, which
Speaker 1: we all know they just did an ambulance episode of SVU,
Speaker 1: but that was not a real ambulance driver. So a
Speaker 1: week later, September third, So now it's like he's getting
Speaker 1: closer and closer. These last two crimes are nine months apart,
Speaker 1: and now it's a week after he kills someone. He
Speaker 1: assaults a twenty one year old woman. He meets on
Speaker 1: I ninety five who has run out of gas and
Speaker 1: god knows why, but he lets her live and he
Speaker 1: just takes off after the assault. Maybe she didn't say
Speaker 1: anything to you know, anger him. I'm not victim blaming,
Speaker 1: but maybe she, like you know, he just decided to leave.
Speaker 1: So five months later, February twenty third, nineteen seventy seven,
Speaker 1: he lures a twenty four year old pregnant woman named
Speaker 1: Carol Willingham into his car under the pretext of helping
Speaker 1: him her. They drive to a wooded area, he beats her,
Speaker 1: robs her, and sexually assaults her, but then releases her.
Speaker 1: And then five months later, still in July of that
Speaker 1: same year, in nineteen seventy seven, he's pulled over by
Speaker 1: cops for having stolen plates on his VW Beetle, which
Speaker 1: I believe also is the car that Ted that Ted
Speaker 1: Bundy drove. So the official car of serial killers is
Speaker 1: the Beatle.
Speaker 2: Well, because it's such a cute car. It's like a trick,
Speaker 2: a little disguise.
Speaker 3: You think. It just looks like, come on to my Beetle.
Speaker 2: It's a non threatening vehicle versus a van like a truck. Yeah,
Speaker 2: a van a Mercury, a four Taurists, creepy car. Yeah, freedom,
Speaker 2: We used to have a four Tourists.
Speaker 1: We used to have a four Taurus station wagon, not
Speaker 1: the cop kind, the station wagon y a creepy car.
Speaker 1: And we had a van. My dad used to pick
Speaker 1: me up in a Dodge Ram van.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but a volt black and bug you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, would have much preferred my dad to pick
Speaker 1: me up in a bug.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: So he admitted to the cops to stealing the license plates,
Speaker 1: to swapping them, but he refused to say why.
Speaker 2: Then in a.
Speaker 1: Search of his car, they discover a Seebee radio under
Speaker 1: one of the seats, and they determined that it's been stolen,
Speaker 1: and so they arrest him for theft and they take
Speaker 1: him to County Lockup. Then in County Lockup, he claims
Speaker 1: his innocence and he somehow produces a receipt from the
Speaker 1: store in Baltimore where he bought the Cebee radio, so
Speaker 1: the charges dropped and he is released. But then when
Speaker 1: the cops did a little bit of police work, they
Speaker 1: realized it had been purchased with a credit card belonging
Speaker 1: to the husband of Carol Winningham, the pregnant woman. He
Speaker 1: had assaulted, so they take her in. She immediately I
Speaker 1: ds him as her attacker, and now a warrant is
Speaker 1: out for his arrest.
Speaker 2: So I don't know.
Speaker 1: This guy is ballsy that he got this receipt even
Speaker 1: though it was like with a stolen credit card, because at.
Speaker 3: That Butody, we knew it would work. He knew cops radiots.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, men will trust any random man over dozens
Speaker 2: of women with victims, you know what I mean?
Speaker 3: So true.
Speaker 1: So then this all goes down in July and it's
Speaker 1: not for a month five weeks later or so, at
Speaker 1: the end of August that they find him working as
Speaker 1: an ambulance dispatch helper in Reno, Nevada, and he has
Speaker 1: arrested my.
Speaker 3: Local police there.
Speaker 1: He gets extradited back to Baltimore to await trial. On
Speaker 1: his way back to Maryland, he apparently told the escorting
Speaker 1: officers that he wanted to confess to the murder of
Speaker 1: Peggy pumpy In, and at the police station he confessed
Speaker 1: to both the murders.
Speaker 3: Of pumpy In and Cook on videotape.
Speaker 1: After his arrest, a bunch of high ranking cops got
Speaker 1: together to talk about strategy for prosecuting him. And this
Speaker 1: is not the same, but it reminds me of like
Speaker 1: how they're like, oh, we're just going to send you
Speaker 1: to jails as a pedophile instead of a serial rapist,
Speaker 1: so that, I don't know, it reminds me of it.
Speaker 3: I don't think it's like fully based.
Speaker 1: But they decide to try him separately in different venues
Speaker 1: for the true trial the two cases, even though they're
Speaker 1: in the same they're both in Maryland because they're worried
Speaker 1: he might not get a fair trial for one of
Speaker 1: them because of publicity, and they don't really want anything
Speaker 1: to fuck anything up. But it's like, it's just really
Speaker 1: crazy how you can't fucking find anything about these murders
Speaker 1: and they're worried about the publicity. I'm like, I can't
Speaker 1: even find a picture of this man's face. But allegedly
Speaker 1: they were worried about this publicity thing. So they separate
Speaker 1: the trials. So he goes to Alleghany County where he's
Speaker 1: charged with Cook's murder. He's found guilty in nineteen seventy
Speaker 1: eight sentence to life in prison. Then he goes to
Speaker 1: trial for Pumpian's murder, and since he was already serving
Speaker 1: a life sentence, his attorneys filed a motion for a mistrial,
Speaker 1: which is granted. I don't know why they give double
Speaker 1: sentences of life all the time. It's like about justice
Speaker 1: for the person and the families. But he is found
Speaker 1: guilty in a second trial after the mistrial, and he
Speaker 1: is found guilty for the murder of Peggy pumpi In
Speaker 1: and he does get a second life term in April
Speaker 1: of nineteen seventy nine. So then his attorney named Arnold
Speaker 1: Zerwitz tried convincing the jury that Davis had been pressured
Speaker 1: into the confession by the police, but his argument is
Speaker 1: like fully ignored, like everyone knows it's this guy. In
Speaker 1: early nineteen seventy nine, he's transferred to Arundale County where
Speaker 1: he's put on trial for killing Lydia Norman, the sixteen
Speaker 1: year old, which was his first murder. And in early
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty he's also found guilty for her murder and
Speaker 1: sentenced to a life term with a chance of pearl
Speaker 1: after forty eight years. But it doesn't really matter because
Speaker 1: I think the two other life terms are not with pearls,
Speaker 1: so I don't think he can ever get out. And
Speaker 1: then they said while the sentence was read out. He
Speaker 1: did not react. He remained completely calm. In the early eighties,
Speaker 1: he's interviewed on a few occasions by FBI agent John E. Douglas,
Speaker 1: who's the guy who wrote mind Hunter and who mind
Speaker 1: Hunter is based on. And the aim is obviously was
Speaker 1: to create, you know, offender profiles so that we could
Speaker 1: capture future serial killers, like the whole plot of mind Hunter.
Speaker 1: One place I read said that this is one of
Speaker 1: the only cases where Douglas went in to meet with
Speaker 1: the with the perpetrator knowing nothing about his crime, so
Speaker 1: he walked in colds. This interview with Davis knows nothing
Speaker 1: about his crimes, but still got a good profile out
Speaker 1: of him. He said Davis was a police buff because
Speaker 1: you know, his dad was a cop. He would have
Speaker 1: liked to have done a job like that where he
Speaker 1: would have authority, but he settled for a job below
Speaker 1: his potential. He had problems relating to women. His crimes
Speaker 1: were prompted by his frustration over the lack of control
Speaker 1: he had in his life. At the time of his
Speaker 1: first murder, he was struggling with the woman he lived
Speaker 1: with and was suffering financial difficulties and was drinking heavily,
Speaker 1: so he took out the anger he felt for the
Speaker 1: woman in his life on his victims.
Speaker 3: So it's classic in cel shit, you know.
Speaker 1: And so I guess maybe with like what you were
Speaker 1: talking about before, It's like maybe if his relationship is
Speaker 1: going well, he doesn't have all this anger, and then
Speaker 1: when his relationship's not going well, he goes out and
Speaker 1: takes it out on these people. It's like I say,
Speaker 1: I mean Ted Bundy had a full girlfriend the entire
Speaker 1: time and never hurt her in any way, Like I.
Speaker 3: Do a stand up joke about it.
Speaker 1: So it's like, I don't know what goes on with
Speaker 1: these guys when they take breaks, or when they're in
Speaker 1: a happy relationship or what's going on. But this man,
Speaker 1: Charles William Davis Junior, is still alive and incarcerated in Maryland.
Speaker 1: He is in prison in the Baltimore area and he
Speaker 1: will be there forever.
Speaker 3: And that's that.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I've never heard of this guy.
Speaker 1: And it's interesting that he was profiled by the scot
Speaker 1: by this guy and it was just so hard to
Speaker 1: find information. But if you have any more information, do
Speaker 1: let me know. But that's what I have for now.
Speaker 2: Fuck the police, and yeah, we have an interview, a
Speaker 2: great interview.
Speaker 3: We have a great interview.
Speaker 1: Yeah, don't go anywhere, you guys, our guest today. He's
Speaker 1: been on our list since the beginning. We have wanted
Speaker 1: to get him since the beginning. He is in the
Speaker 1: character actor hall of Fame. You guys know him. He's
Speaker 1: been on Ray Donovan, Missus, Fletcher, the Dropout. He's also
Speaker 1: been in movies like Funny Pages and Joker, and famously,
Speaker 1: you may not even know this, he played Raphael in
Speaker 1: the Suit in the original Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles movie,
Speaker 1: and today know him as one of the most annoying
Speaker 1: asshole characters and honestly a pedophile. Deputy Commissioner Hank Abraham,
Speaker 1: we were so psyched to talk to Josh Pice.
Speaker 2: Check it out, you guys, we've been wanting you on
Speaker 2: our show for a very long time. Yeah, thank you
Speaker 2: so much. A big get for us.
Speaker 4: Oh good good, Oh yeah. I know it's taken a
Speaker 4: while to make this happen, but this.
Speaker 3: Is the moment, worth the way, worth the way.
Speaker 4: Well, we'll see, we'll see. Let's see.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, so we did do the episode Collateral
Speaker 2: Damages Samantha Corbin, the writer, was our guest for that
Speaker 2: one where it comes out Hank Abraham sorry to jump
Speaker 2: right in, but no get in is a pedophile. Did
Speaker 2: you know going into the role of Hank Abraham he
Speaker 2: was gonna be a pedophile?
Speaker 4: Did they spring it on you? How did they read
Speaker 4: no idea, no idea? I don't think they knew either, honestly.
Speaker 4: And that whole character started out as you know, what
Speaker 4: I thought was just going to be one episode where
Speaker 4: he was like a pr agent for somebody running for
Speaker 4: some political position in New York. And then they liked
Speaker 4: what I was doing, and then they kind of had me,
Speaker 4: had me build up, and then I got to a
Speaker 4: place where where Hank got to a place where he
Speaker 4: was actually more powerful politically than Mariscus character, and which
Speaker 4: was like an interesting build up for me. And then
Speaker 4: I I was hanging out like, you know, doing that
Speaker 4: and then I remember saying to you know, saying to
Speaker 4: the writers, I was like, let's find something juicy, you know.
Speaker 4: And there was actually a writer director who was involved
Speaker 4: with the show that had a whole situation happened that
Speaker 4: was not dissimilar from what ended up becoming Hank's story
Speaker 4: and not that they drew directly from that, but I
Speaker 4: think that gave them ideas like this guy that gets
Speaker 4: all the way to the top and then falls. Yeah,
Speaker 4: so I had no idea at all until that episode.
Speaker 3: Was it shocking to you or were you like, yeah,
Speaker 3: this is this is Hank.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was shocking. It was totally shocking. Like looking
Speaker 4: back in retrospect, you could see, oh I could yeah
Speaker 4: that doesn't you know that kind of makes sense on
Speaker 4: some level, or you know, it could it could make sense.
Speaker 4: It could have gone you know, so many different directions. Yeah,
Speaker 4: but that was you know, it was like really disturbing content,
Speaker 4: and it was I had to It was very It
Speaker 4: was definitely the most challenging episode, you know, especially when
Speaker 4: he's fighting to be like, you know, I just watched it.
Speaker 4: I didn't. I didn't.
Speaker 3: I didn't act on it, or I didn't act.
Speaker 4: On I didn't, And which is like a really valid
Speaker 4: interesting thing to explore, you know, because if somebody is
Speaker 4: seeking out that content, there's somebody's you know, that increases
Speaker 4: the demand for people to make it, and so you know,
Speaker 4: on that level, it was a good thing to explore.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a great performance and like he tries
Speaker 2: to take his own life and stuff.
Speaker 3: It was a wild episode.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So do you live in New York?
Speaker 4: Yeah? I grew up in New York.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Are you raised? Are people reacting to you on
Speaker 2: the streets? Have you ever had experience yesterday?
Speaker 3: Wait? Really yesterday?
Speaker 4: Yes? Yeah, I mean oddly enough about I'm assuming it
Speaker 4: was this. I mean, I've played a bunch of guys
Speaker 4: that are not the most ethical. Yeah, And this woman
Speaker 4: came up and said you. She was very nice, but
Speaker 4: she was like, you're too good. You're you're You've played
Speaker 4: too many You've played people that are it's too convincing
Speaker 4: what you're doing. It was a compliment, you know, she
Speaker 4: was being very playful. But I assume it was you know,
Speaker 4: I assume it was Hank Abraham.
Speaker 2: Yeah, when you.
Speaker 1: Came back, because you were there at the very beginning.
Speaker 1: You're in season one, right, your.
Speaker 4: S I was also in I don't know if your
Speaker 4: show covers this, but I was also in season one
Speaker 4: of the Mothership.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 1: We I knew you were in the Mothership, and I do,
Speaker 1: and I was going to ask you questions about the
Speaker 1: other franchises, but yeah.
Speaker 2: But we don't I don't.
Speaker 1: I didn't know that because I only dabble a little
Speaker 1: in regular law in order SV you're specialists, spize, we specialize,
Speaker 1: We're not like, yeah, we're not general practitioners. Did did
Speaker 1: you so, like, because you have this like unique perspective
Speaker 1: of like you were there at the very, very beginning.
Speaker 1: So everybody always talks about, oh, it's a well oiled machine,
Speaker 1: the sets really like run. But you were there at
Speaker 1: the beginning when they were probably still finding their footing,
Speaker 1: and then you were there ten years later. So did
Speaker 1: you notice any big changes on the set from like,
Speaker 1: well you were also there in the Stabler years versus
Speaker 1: the non Stabler years, Like any big changes from when
Speaker 1: you sort of came back.
Speaker 4: I mean, I think in the beginning it was run
Speaker 4: by like high optane testosterone. Like it was like it
Speaker 4: was just like this sense of drive that people had
Speaker 4: and and and it was just it was an intense
Speaker 4: you know, prior to that, I'd done just mostly theater
Speaker 4: and starting to do some other TV and film. But
Speaker 4: you know a lot of theater where there's you know,
Speaker 4: a rehearsal and blah blah blah, and this was like
Speaker 4: it felt like they were yelling at me, you know,
Speaker 4: not it wasn't personal, but it's like.
Speaker 5: Okay, this is Josh. Okay, you're gonna come in here,
Speaker 5: you're gonna walk out there, then you're gonna cut back
Speaker 5: there when he says that you're gonna do this. It
Speaker 5: was I don't know quind how I made it through,
Speaker 5: but it was like my nervous system was like and.
Speaker 4: So it was. But it was just like a lot
Speaker 4: of passion and you know, and then they started bringing
Speaker 4: that character back. I was I was Borak, the medical examiner,
Speaker 4: and and I don't know, I think it did maybe
Speaker 4: maybe around twenty episodes. Yeah, and it was just like
Speaker 4: one or two scenes, and I just I think maybe
Speaker 4: what they liked is I was playing whenever I would
Speaker 4: deal with the two guys whatever two guys. And the
Speaker 4: first it was like George Zunza and I can't remember
Speaker 4: who the other guy was, but I just started playing
Speaker 4: with that I knew more than them, and that I
Speaker 4: was like kind of pissed off that they were getting
Speaker 4: all the attention for breaking these cases, but it was
Speaker 4: really me and so like I just kind of created
Speaker 4: this dynamic which I think, you know, felt very in
Speaker 4: the world especially early on in the show of that
Speaker 4: kind of masculine, you know, headbanging kind of thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, did you have to memorize wild words? Do you
Speaker 2: remember any of your medical No?
Speaker 4: No, but it was that was that was intense and
Speaker 4: one uh nightmare, this is one of my actor nightmares.
Speaker 4: Was and it was real. I was doing a play
Speaker 4: and they called and they said, we have another episode
Speaker 4: for you. Can you come in? You know, it was
Speaker 4: like two days later and and the play was going
Speaker 4: up and you know, three days and so it was
Speaker 4: like a lot of chaos. I got the script, you know,
Speaker 4: I found my scene, had it memorized, went shot the scene,
Speaker 4: and then I was like, okay, you know, and then
Speaker 4: they were like, oh no, we're gonna We're gonna break
Speaker 4: and then we're gonna do your other scene. I was
Speaker 4: like my other scene and it was like later I
Speaker 4: hadn't like I was just looking, you know, frantically for
Speaker 4: my stuff so I could learn it fast. I had
Speaker 4: this whole scene with me. Who were the guys like
Speaker 4: or Bach or Bach? And was it Benjamin Bratt? I think, yeah,
Speaker 4: it depends.
Speaker 1: I forget when Benjamin Bratt came on, because you did
Speaker 1: Law and Order seasons like three, four, five, six, seventy eight, ten, twelve,
Speaker 1: thirteen of the mother Ship. So yeah, there would have
Speaker 1: been Benjamin Bratt definitely would have been on there.
Speaker 4: It was definitely more back. Oh my god. But so
Speaker 4: we were, you know, and I was like in that break,
Speaker 4: I was and it was talking about a corpse and
Speaker 4: what happened, what happened to the body? Like it was impossible.
Speaker 4: It was I was just how, you know, just trying
Speaker 4: to digest this and it was the last shot of
Speaker 4: the day, and the crew you know, was like, we
Speaker 4: want to go home, you know, and and I just
Speaker 4: was like flubbing the lines. It was an or back
Speaker 4: was like we did it so many times. He knew
Speaker 4: my lines, but like better. It was like in that
Speaker 4: it was just a nightmare. But finally we got it
Speaker 4: and it came out great, but definitely taught me a lesson.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this episode was cool to film.
Speaker 2: There were so many of you in that it was
Speaker 2: like a round table of all these officers and she
Speaker 2: was just right in the middle.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was that took that was a long That
Speaker 4: took a long time, a very long time to film.
Speaker 4: Oh really, and uh yeah, and I think for whatever like,
Speaker 4: I think that the content that Marishka was talking about
Speaker 4: in that episode in particular was very It meant a
Speaker 4: tremendous amount.
Speaker 3: To her, oh right, because of the rape kit backlog.
Speaker 4: And the yeah, like it was I think just because
Speaker 4: it was it meant so much to her. It was
Speaker 4: like it was challenging in a different way for her,
Speaker 4: which it came out beautifully, but it was an intense
Speaker 4: folk like we could all of a sudden feel like
Speaker 4: this is this is rich, this is close to home
Speaker 4: in terms of you know, what the content meant to
Speaker 4: her means to her. So it was it was a
Speaker 4: it was a very dynamic, focused day.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm probably getting the coverage of all those guys.
Speaker 3: And you're with Peter Gallagher in that scene too. Did
Speaker 3: you like working with him?
Speaker 1: He's he's a great He was like a great soil
Speaker 1: for her because he was so awful to her, but then.
Speaker 7: You grow to like him, right right, Another one of
Speaker 7: those unlike can't Gabraham you kind of took a I
Speaker 7: was like waiting for that with your character all actually
Speaker 7: really yeah, I was like, they're gonna give him some
Speaker 7: episode where like he has a personal problem and Marishka
Speaker 7: helps him and he turns like good.
Speaker 3: But they really took a hard left on that.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well because you guys there is a buddy buddy
Speaker 2: moment between you guys. Sorry if it's too specific. It
Speaker 2: was the episode with Alec Baldwin. Okay, remember we did
Speaker 2: that one and you're like, oh, there he's writing an article.
Speaker 3: You're amazing, and yeah they did tease yeah littleliness for
Speaker 3: a bit.
Speaker 4: Yeah. I don't know if you remember in that episode
Speaker 4: that I did prior to that one, I did the
Speaker 4: prior episode. Then I went I was in I was
Speaker 4: also recurring on Ray Donovan. And on Ray Donovan, they
Speaker 4: they always colored my hair, you know, to like this
Speaker 4: producer you know that colors this hair, you know. And
Speaker 4: and then I think I shot that episode with Alec Baldwin,
Speaker 4: like in between an episode of Ray Donovan. I flew
Speaker 4: back to New York to shoot that. And so the
Speaker 4: prior episode, you know, my hair was closer to this,
Speaker 4: you know, natural this actual color salt pepper, and so
Speaker 4: they had to like the producers were like, what did
Speaker 4: you what did you do with your hair? And I
Speaker 4: was like, I'm working on this other show and blah
Speaker 4: blah blah, and so they wrote it in a line
Speaker 4: that probably only you guys will appreciate, but they wrote
Speaker 4: in Alex says, Hank, you know, what did you do
Speaker 4: to your hair? And then I had some response. I
Speaker 4: can't remember what it was, but they kind of love that. Yeah,
Speaker 4: that is so funny.
Speaker 3: Did you ever live in la or were you always?
Speaker 4: I had a house in l A for a while,
Speaker 4: got out just in time, but uh, just spent stretches
Speaker 4: of time out there. But I've I would never, you know,
Speaker 4: I grew up in Alphabet City, and you know, I
Speaker 4: could never you know, I live partially in Sad Harbor,
Speaker 4: but always I just couldn't imagine not having an apartment
Speaker 4: in New York. It feels too unsettling.
Speaker 3: And were you always theater acting since you were fall is?
Speaker 4: Yeah? I mean in our home in these village, maybe
Speaker 4: every other weekend, like on a Saturday night, we would
Speaker 4: have like a show and people would come. There'd be
Speaker 4: like maybe thirty people, thirty to forty people like crammed
Speaker 4: in the living room and I was like nine ten
Speaker 4: and I was kind of doing you know, characters or whatever,
Speaker 4: and then other people would get up and do stuff,
Speaker 4: and there was there was this one cab driver named
Speaker 4: Billy who would call me park his cab. He would
Speaker 4: always do the same thing, and he would do like
Speaker 4: he'd have a bowler hat and he would then take
Speaker 4: it off. He would put it on and play like
Speaker 4: one of the characters in Waiting for get Out and
Speaker 4: take it off to the other character. And whenever he
Speaker 4: would always do the same thing. And whenever he would
Speaker 4: do his thing like people would just be like, Okay,
Speaker 4: I'm gonna get up and get some more wine, and
Speaker 4: he would he didn't care what he's doing his thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so cool.
Speaker 4: So it was very I grew up, you know, it
Speaker 4: was just a very bohemian creative environment. I wasn't doing
Speaker 4: it thinking I want to be an actor, but it
Speaker 4: was just a natural inclination, you know, to move that way.
Speaker 4: I was interested in animal behavior as well. My dad
Speaker 4: was able to hook me up kind of assisting a
Speaker 4: lot of animal behaviorists at like Brookava National Laboratory and
Speaker 4: at Rockefeller University. And I really enjoyed that, but I
Speaker 4: was like, I couldn't see myself being in the laboratory. Yeah,
Speaker 4: and very much acting is you know, animal behavior true,
Speaker 4: so kind of put it all together.
Speaker 3: Very true with the Ninja Turtles.
Speaker 1: Was that like that was that was like at the
Speaker 1: very beginning of your career, right, Yeah, so you were
Speaker 1: just so everybody knows because when I told my husband
Speaker 1: I was interviewing you, he was like Raphael, Like he
Speaker 1: was excited that you were the voice of Raphael.
Speaker 3: You're not in the suit, right or are you? I
Speaker 3: am in the You're in the suit.
Speaker 4: I'm the only one that was in the suit and
Speaker 4: did and and did the voice. Wow, everybody else was
Speaker 4: either in the suit or did the voice. I was
Speaker 4: the only one that did both.
Speaker 2: And why was that?
Speaker 4: It was because you know, I developed this physicality, you know,
Speaker 4: like I had this where I grew up like a
Speaker 4: lot of people would walk around trying to be bigger
Speaker 4: than they were physically as like a survival modality. And
Speaker 4: it was like a combination of like my physicality was
Speaker 4: a combination of being as big as I could and
Speaker 4: also like turtles, like how they moved their hands like
Speaker 4: they're always pushing the dirt behind them, and that kind
Speaker 4: of was also like how a lot of people in
Speaker 4: my neighborhood walked animal behavior, the animal behavior, and so
Speaker 4: I kind of put that together with like my you know,
Speaker 4: putting a New York accent on it, and they were
Speaker 4: just like nobody else could do this, you know, amazing
Speaker 4: it was. It was too comprehensive.
Speaker 3: Yeah, my husband says, you have the best line in
Speaker 3: the movie because you go splinter, damn it. And he
Speaker 3: said that, like, he goes, it's the only curse in
Speaker 3: the movie. I go, you know a lot, he goes.
Speaker 2: This movie was very.
Speaker 1: Important to people my age, Yeah, because he was like
Speaker 1: ten when it came out, and he was like, I
Speaker 1: think it. He watched it a million times, Like I've
Speaker 1: seen it. I said, I've seen that movie at least
Speaker 1: a handful of times. I'm looking at pictures of you
Speaker 1: right now in the suit.
Speaker 4: Was it hot?
Speaker 2: Uh?
Speaker 4: It was insane. I mean it weighed seventy pounds, oh
Speaker 4: my god. From morning to lunch break. We would all
Speaker 4: lose five pounds, oh my every day and then you know,
Speaker 4: and then so probably would lose between for a full
Speaker 4: day if it was active, like five to eight pounds.
Speaker 4: But we would just like eat, you know, like insane eat.
Speaker 3: Went out at lunch.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and they you know, they had to shoot compressed
Speaker 4: air in our faces because it just felt like your
Speaker 4: blood was boiling and they had to you know, you're
Speaker 4: suited up, you know, from the head down, and then
Speaker 4: the last part is they put the head on and
Speaker 4: they glue it and so you'res I mean, I never
Speaker 4: considered myself a claustrophobic person, but like all of a sudden,
Speaker 4: you're sealed in. Not breathing is not you know, when
Speaker 4: the mouth is closed, it's hard to breathe. You're breathing,
Speaker 4: you know, you're breathing your own co two that you're emitting,
Speaker 4: and then it starts to get hot and it's you know,
Speaker 4: there were different times as we were filming where you
Speaker 4: would hear, you know, one of us going take the
Speaker 4: head off, take the head off, because like somebody would
Speaker 4: just like it was so like the technology was so
Speaker 4: brand new, and so it's like it was not many.
Speaker 1: I was going to say, the Mandalorian probably has like
Speaker 1: a little fan in there or something, you know, nowadays,
Speaker 1: I'm sure it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, wow, pre cgi, I was gonna say, you've worked
Speaker 2: so much, are there just any particular like sets or
Speaker 2: experiences or people that you hold near and dear like
Speaker 2: that you look back on fondly that you'd like to
Speaker 2: share with us.
Speaker 3: But that is a broad question. There was just so
Speaker 3: many credits.
Speaker 4: I mean it's really like I really haven't had bad experiences, honestly,
Speaker 4: and like each one is like, you know, it's like
Speaker 4: a like a kid, you know, in a way, like
Speaker 4: you don't want to pick one of it. Like they're
Speaker 4: all just me attempting to be as present and engaged
Speaker 4: and fully embodied as as I could in the moment. No,
Speaker 4: I just I just finished the Netflix series which I
Speaker 4: think will come out at some point in the spring,
Speaker 4: called A Man in Full and I was working with
Speaker 4: Jeff Daniels for about three months and that was a
Speaker 4: great experience.
Speaker 2: What's it about.
Speaker 4: It's based on a Tom Wolfe novel and he plays
Speaker 4: a guy who has a lot of power and has
Speaker 4: done things that are a little bit questionable. And it's
Speaker 4: like about his starting to fall apart, and he's trying
Speaker 4: to maintain like this masculine thing and I'm like a
Speaker 4: counterpart of him, of somebody that actually is truly successful
Speaker 4: and not hasn't played as many games. And it's how
Speaker 4: he's trying to get me to save him and pull
Speaker 4: him out. But he does it in the most you know,
Speaker 4: screwed up way and there analyzes the comedy.
Speaker 2: Oh, it's a comedy.
Speaker 4: It's a dark comedy. It's a dark comedy. I mean,
Speaker 4: I actually I view everything as a comedy, everything that
Speaker 4: I do, even Law and Order. That's just my lens.
Speaker 4: Even if it's the most serious thing. It's like I
Speaker 4: try to I can't help but find the comedy of it.
Speaker 2: Well, we always say old sview, not so much to
Speaker 2: the newers, but the Neil Barriers. We like to say,
Speaker 2: we're really funny. Like the Stable Years, there was like
Speaker 2: lightness to it that we really appreciate. Yeah, this was amazing.
Speaker 1: Any like little favorite moments from the set or anything
Speaker 1: that you want to say that our listeners might like
Speaker 1: before we say goodbye, or you know, I think.
Speaker 4: I've given you everything. Yeah, I'm sure. Once I'm done,
Speaker 4: I'll think of ten ten more things, you know, just
Speaker 4: at starting with the very first Law and Order when
Speaker 4: I was starting out, like that was the only show
Speaker 4: in New York City other than the soap opera, and
Speaker 4: so it really was for you know, an actor starting out,
Speaker 4: it was really a life save her to be able
Speaker 4: to have a TV show in New York that I
Speaker 4: could work on pretty regularly. So I'm just so I'm
Speaker 4: so appreciative on you know, of the whole franchise, and
Speaker 4: you know, it's been a good, a good journey.
Speaker 2: Yeah, amazing, Thank you so much.
Speaker 4: You're so welcome.
Speaker 3: That was that was That was very fun. You know,
Speaker 3: I love a New York guy.
Speaker 2: I'm telling you. My husband was like psyched. He was like,
Speaker 2: you're talking to Raphael. Oh, I've been bringing it up
Speaker 2: in convo. I'm like everywhere I can.
Speaker 4: Oh.
Speaker 1: And also, Jared's gotten Rosie fully into Teenage Mutan Ninja Turtle.
Speaker 1: She watches it now and he sings the old song
Speaker 1: you know that, like that's like teenage Mutan Ninja Turtles,
Speaker 1: and Rosie sits next to him and bangs out the
Speaker 1: beat to what he's singing on a tambourine. And then
Speaker 1: at the end when it goes Heroes in a housell
Speaker 1: Turtle Power, she tries to like go no, no, no no,
Speaker 1: it's so funny to me. She's like in a one
Speaker 1: man band, like a ompanying Jared while he sings the
Speaker 1: Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle theme song and it's just cute.
Speaker 1: And she was trying to convince me today that there's
Speaker 1: a pink ninja turtle and I was like, there is
Speaker 1: not a pink ninja turtle. And I was like, I
Speaker 1: am arguing with a three year old, this is crazy.
Speaker 1: But then I googled it and I showed her. I
Speaker 1: was like, see orange, red, purple blue, and she was like, fine, cool.
Speaker 1: Maybe she's confusing it with the Power Rangers. I think
Speaker 1: she just thought the orange one was pink or something.
Speaker 1: She just wasn't like getting the color. Maybe she's colorblind.
Speaker 1: Who's to say.
Speaker 3: But obviously with this one so much postmortem, it like
Speaker 3: we learn so much. It's trust no one.
Speaker 2: You never know.
Speaker 1: Even people on the inside that are supposed to be
Speaker 1: like protecting and serving are committing crime.
Speaker 2: I think you're all horse. You're all horse, and you
Speaker 2: all deserve anything that goes wrong in your life. So
Speaker 2: you're yeah, close your legs to married men, you dumb sluts,
Speaker 2: and we will not test your rape kits.
Speaker 3: That's what we learned.
Speaker 2: We have a long way to go for equality while
Speaker 2: constantly being gas lit that everything's okay and you should go.
Speaker 3: To the police when something bad happens too.
Speaker 2: So thank you to mrscal Hargatea for being a hero
Speaker 2: and starting the Joyful Heart Foundation. Yeah, but yeah, this
Speaker 2: one's ah, this one's infuriating. But also leave evidence behind, honey.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that little girl, she was like a classic, like
Speaker 1: the girl who learned how to like she rubbed slime
Speaker 1: on her attacker or something like glitter slime on her
Speaker 1: attacker because she like learned it on SVU.
Speaker 2: And I was like love that, Like, well, yeah, because
Speaker 2: we meet mother daughter duos or grandma's even at our
Speaker 2: live shows, and they're always like, oh, I showed her
Speaker 2: SVU too young, And I'm like, is it too young?
Speaker 3: Is it ever too young?
Speaker 2: Is it ever too young?
Speaker 1: I mean this also this leads into another episode, but
Speaker 1: you know, obviously Rollins is having some issues with her
Speaker 1: boys club boss situation in this episode from Atlanta, and
Speaker 1: I don't know. That just got me thinking about like
Speaker 1: how shitty it is to be like a woman working
Speaker 1: in like like a male dominated airfield.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're eating at a restaurant being told how to tip,
Speaker 2: like I It's like everywhere and constantly it's just like,
Speaker 2: oh my god. There was a moment where people were
Speaker 2: getting out of a cab, so I stood next to
Speaker 2: it so I can get in and the girl is
Speaker 2: paying on her thing and the guy is like holding leftovers,
Speaker 2: and he goes, oh, yeah, she's just paying and she'll
Speaker 2: be out soon then you can go in. And I went,
Speaker 2: I know how a cab works, and he goes, wait,
Speaker 2: I was just trying to be nice. I go, okay,
Speaker 2: but why are you explaining to me how cabs work?
Speaker 2: Like I don't even think they can fucking help it,
Speaker 2: Like I just it's they just view us as fucking idiots.
Speaker 3: I should have told that girl break up with this guy.
Speaker 2: You're paying for this and he doesn't believe that you
Speaker 2: know how to cabs work, Like your girlfriend's paying for this,
Speaker 2: you can't even afford to pay for this cab? Like
Speaker 2: what are you? How are you telling me how it works?
Speaker 2: Obviously what Amanda Rollins went through in Atlanta is much worse.
Speaker 1: Which we don't know yet technically from this episode, but
Speaker 1: you can tell that, like, I don't know, I don't.
Speaker 1: I hated the way, like even that guy was like, oh,
Speaker 1: you're like the guy that was down there, and they
Speaker 1: were just like fucking with her, not testing the kids
Speaker 1: and then testing them and pulling the files and making
Speaker 1: her search Like I don't know.
Speaker 2: This kind of playing games with true victims. Yeah, but
Speaker 2: all had similar moms. It's just like the lazy It's so,
Speaker 2: you know, because this show is such cop Ganda, and
Speaker 2: that's what people say, but it's like, no, these episodes
Speaker 2: that they do are so important and so telling about
Speaker 2: because Dick Wolf loves police. So the fact that we're
Speaker 2: able to do this, like they are able to do
Speaker 2: these kinds of a right where the cops are yeah,
Speaker 2: says a lot.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean listen, I also think we all have
Speaker 1: to I mean, I don't know, not we like you,
Speaker 1: but like as a society, yeah, we have to stop
Speaker 1: like doing the Madonna and the whore like sectioning off
Speaker 1: of women, like everybody contains multitudes. We have to be
Speaker 1: sex positive like, and all victims deserve justice. Like so
Speaker 1: it's uh, just another reminder.
Speaker 2: Also, if you're a teen, can you please yeah, do
Speaker 2: not try to fuck your mom's boyfriend.
Speaker 3: No, he's the predator.
Speaker 2: But it's like, girl, if someone is dating your mom,
Speaker 2: they're not good if they want to date you too. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and why the fact that she tried to also help
Speaker 2: him run. I hope they do charge her with something.
Speaker 2: She goes to juice.
Speaker 1: They won't. Nah, she was a victim. But let's jump
Speaker 1: into the baby. I do like the way he said that, though.
Speaker 1: Let's get into our what would Sister peg new segment
Speaker 1: WWSPD Baby. This is our weekly segment where we point
Speaker 1: you to an organization, a blog post, an article, a podcast,
Speaker 1: something to help you just like learn about what we
Speaker 1: talked about today. And obviously I'm going to send you
Speaker 1: guys to endThe backlog dot Org, which is I believe
Speaker 1: a subset of Joyful Heart. I believe it's like part
Speaker 1: of the Joyfulhart Foundation. The organization tracks the progress of
Speaker 1: all fifty states in enacting laws and policies that embrace
Speaker 1: their six legislative pillars of Comprehensive rape kit Reform. The
Speaker 1: six pillars include a statewide inventory, testing backlog kits, testing
Speaker 1: new kits, implementing a tracking system for the kits, granting
Speaker 1: survivors information about their cases and the status and location
Speaker 1: of rape kits, plus funding reform.
Speaker 3: So for more info about that, go to end backlog
Speaker 3: dot Org.
Speaker 2: Next week we'll be doing Poison Motive, which is season fourteen,
Speaker 2: episode twenty two. Watch along, don't watch along, Just make
Speaker 2: sure you tune in next week.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for all your support.
Speaker 2: Bye guys, That's Messed Up as an Exactly Right production.
Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give us, or
Speaker 1: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
Speaker 1: That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2: Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod
Speaker 2: and on Twitter at messed Up Pod, and follow us
Speaker 2: personally at Kara Klank and at glitter Cheese.
Speaker 1: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
Speaker 1: more information. Thank you so much to our producer Kac O'Brien,
Speaker 1: and to our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker
Speaker 1: Patrick Cootner, and to Henry Kaperski for our theme song
Speaker 1: and Carly gen Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to
Speaker 1: our executive producers Georgia hard Start, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer
Speaker 1: and everybody at Exactly Right Media
Speaker 2: Dun Dune