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Speaker 1: All Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff,

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Speaker 2: your weekly reminder that people can do good things like

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Speaker 2: kill their husbands. This is a rerun episode. Did you

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Speaker 2: know that I get weeks off sometimes? And I got

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Speaker 2: last week off, and I got last week off because

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Speaker 2: of the Founding Fathers, who I don't like very much,

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Speaker 2: but I appreciate my week off. And I thought to myself,

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Speaker 2: what rerun should I give you all? And then I

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Speaker 2: read a headline that says, quote conservatives in red States

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Speaker 2: turn their attention to ending no fault divorce laws. So

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Speaker 2: I thought I'd tell a little story about what happened

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Speaker 2: before divorce was legal, which is that women killed their husbands,

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Speaker 2: just poisoned them, a lot of them, because it was

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Speaker 2: the only way that they could get out of the situation.

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Speaker 2: Divorce saves lives, it saves men's lives. You think they'd

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Speaker 2: be happy about it anyway, This is a rerun and

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Speaker 2: it's about women who poison their husbands. Hello, and welcome

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Speaker 2: to Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff. I'm your host,

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Speaker 2: Margaret phil Joy. Sophie says that I have to start

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Speaker 2: each episode with a joke in order to be part

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Speaker 2: of the cool Zone Media Network of Podcasts. Yeah, so okay,

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Speaker 2: let me tell you. I remember that detail in my

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Speaker 2: contract because I've got a photographic memory. It's just that

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Speaker 2: I left the lens cap on. That's my joke. Okay.

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Speaker 2: And today we've got a returning guest, the one and

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Speaker 2: only Sharen Shreen.

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Speaker 3: How are you hi, I'm okay, Hi, Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, what do you do? How do you justify your existence?

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Speaker 3: That's a hard question for me to answer right now.

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Speaker 3: I've been going through a very extended existential crisis, like

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Speaker 3: extended by like years.

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Speaker 2: Oh now I feel guilty.

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Speaker 3: It's fine. I should know at this point how to

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Speaker 3: answer that after all this time. But I uh, I

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Speaker 3: make stuff and try every day to stay alive. But yeah,

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Speaker 3: I I write and direct and I can't say that

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Speaker 3: I've done that in a while though. So there's where

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Speaker 3: that there's where the imposter syndrome comes in. But you're

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Speaker 3: not asking you all these questions. This is not therapy.

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Speaker 3: I do need a therapist. I want to shut up.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I know. I'm just trying to get you to

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Speaker 2: talk about your podcast really quickly.

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Speaker 3: Oh my podcast. I do co host a podcast called

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Speaker 3: Ethnically Ambiguous it's uh, it's evolved over the years. It

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Speaker 3: used to be about news, and we do a lot

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Speaker 3: of guest interviews now because the news hurts.

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Speaker 2: So that's true. Yeah, Sophie is our producer and is

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Speaker 2: on the line too. How are you?

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Speaker 3: So it's just Sophie.

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Speaker 1: As we established ahead of this podcast, we do believe

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Speaker 1: I have been cursed. So if you're listening and you

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Speaker 1: we are the one who did that, how dare you?

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Speaker 3: How dare you?

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Speaker 2: And I believe we could probably do like a Peter

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Speaker 2: Pan thing or if everyone starts clapping and says I

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Speaker 2: believe in Sophie, Oh, then that will help lift Sophie's curse.

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Speaker 2: If everyone who listens to this does.

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Speaker 1: That, yeah, please let me know. Or if you know

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Speaker 1: how to lift a curse, you know, yeah me on Twitter. Thanks.

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Speaker 2: Ian is our editor and unwoman wrote our theme music,

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Speaker 2: so sharene. I want to talk to you today about

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Speaker 2: that sacred bond between two people, the bond of marriage. No,

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Speaker 2: in particular, we're going to talk about the most important

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Speaker 2: part of any successful marriage, which is to say, today

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Speaker 2: we're going to talk about women who've murdered their husbands.

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Speaker 3: Okay, that's better, Okay, cool, I'm down. I'm down, I'm

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Speaker 3: doun I like that twist.

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Speaker 2: I told Sharene that we picked this episode specifically for

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Speaker 2: so it would have been particularly cruel.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I do. I mean the context behind that

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Speaker 3: is that I do not like marriage, and that's all

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Speaker 3: you need to know.

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Speaker 2: Oh great, well, yeah, today we are going to talk

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Speaker 2: about a multi generational crew of witches, roughly we'll call

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Speaker 2: them witches in seventeenth century Rome, who sold poison to

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Speaker 2: anywhere between forty six and six hundred women so that

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Speaker 2: those women could murder their abusive husbands during an arrow

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Speaker 2: when I know, big play, big play, And this is

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Speaker 2: during an arrow where divorce wasn't a thing and where

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Speaker 2: women were basically the legal property of men. And we're

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Speaker 2: also going to talk about the the real and yet

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Speaker 2: also mythical concoction that they came up with called Aqua tafauna.

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Speaker 2: And along the way, we're going not to also talk

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Speaker 2: about skincare routines like bathing in the Blood of Innocence.

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Speaker 3: I do love skincare.

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Speaker 2: All right, well, this is some good stuff for you today.

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Speaker 3: Cool.

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Speaker 2: Cool, So everyone buckle up for the How to Kill

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Speaker 2: Your Husband episode, which we're going to call the how

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Speaker 2: to Kill your Husband. We're just gonna call it how

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Speaker 2: to Kill your Husband and see if we get in trouble.

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Speaker 3: Cool.

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Speaker 2: Cool, So first we have to talk about whenever we

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Speaker 2: talk about the cool things that people did, we have

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Speaker 2: to talk about the bad things that they're going against. Right. So, marriage,

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Speaker 2: m the history of marriage in Europe, really anywhere that's

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Speaker 2: been controlled by Catholicism or even more importantly, patriarchy. But

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Speaker 2: the research I did for this episode was primarily about Europe.

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Speaker 2: It's dark as fuck. It's so dark. The history of

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Speaker 2: marriage is so bad. Yeah, Italy didn't legalize divorce until

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Speaker 2: nineteen seventy.

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Speaker 3: What.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well it's waste too late.

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Speaker 3: Years ago, you know what I mean?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, No, it feels like thirty years ago.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it feels like thirty Yeah, you know what I mean?

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Speaker 2: The real ones know, Okay, Yeah, Spain didn't legalize it

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Speaker 2: until nineteen eighty one.

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Speaker 3: What.

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Speaker 2: Ireland didn't legalize marriage until nineteen ninety six.

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Speaker 3: I was alive through in both of them. Wait, what

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Speaker 3: was the second one eighty one?

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Speaker 2: No, I was eighty one.

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Speaker 3: I'm a spring chicken, but that was way to ninety six.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and the reason for I mean The reason for

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Speaker 2: those three is all Catholicism, but Ireland in particular, because

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Speaker 2: they the Catholic Church of that very clever thing where

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Speaker 2: they position themselves is like the anti colonial choice for

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Speaker 2: the Irish rebels right against that damnable Protestant England. And

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Speaker 2: so when Ireland got its like kind of independence, the

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Speaker 2: Catholic Church was like, hell, yeah, now you're free from

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Speaker 2: England and you can just serve the pope and no

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Speaker 2: one's allowed to enjoy sex anymore, and kind of instituted

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Speaker 2: a theocracy, which is not what we're talking about today,

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Speaker 2: but I always want to get that off my chest.

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Speaker 3: Yeah no, yeah, I don't like marriage for a lot

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Speaker 3: of reasons. One of them is that it's usually really

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Speaker 3: based in religion and control, and it's just become the

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Speaker 3: archaic thing we've gotten used to in my opinion. But

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Speaker 3: that's just my two cents. Because also, not all religious

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Speaker 3: hashtag not all religions, but I'm not I don't really

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Speaker 3: believe in anything, but I will say that in the

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Speaker 3: Muslim faith, the woman keeps her name because she's not necessary,

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Speaker 3: because why would you take your name if she's not

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Speaker 3: related to you? Is the logic behind that like, she's

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Speaker 3: not your sister, she's not your mom. So she's going

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Speaker 3: to keep her maiden name or just her name, and

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Speaker 3: she can divorce anytime she wants. Like it's in the

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Speaker 3: it's in, it's allowed.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 3: So I'm not saying every religion is that way. I

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Speaker 3: think it's become I think the institution of marriage itself

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Speaker 3: has become something really out of our control, regardless of religion.

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Speaker 2: That makes sense, Yeah, totally. I started trying to look

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Speaker 2: up more, you know, like I was looking up a

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Speaker 2: divorce in Islam, and you know, finding overall a much

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Speaker 2: better history than divorce into various Christian faiths. Although ironic,

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Speaker 2: the Puritans, who hated sex and all this other shit,

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Speaker 2: they were more pro divorce than the Catholics.

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Speaker 3: Maybe hating sex has something to do with that, I wonder.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, maybe, oh yeah, they're like, oh yeah, I

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Speaker 2: get divorced. They can't fuck anymore. Yeah, totally, all right,

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Speaker 2: So divorce hard. In a lot of times and places

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Speaker 2: and a lot of places, men were allowed to divorce

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Speaker 2: their their wives, but not vice versa. So like, because

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Speaker 2: the woman is property, the man can be like I'm

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Speaker 2: done with this property. But the property can't be like

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Speaker 2: I'm done with my owner, you know.

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Speaker 3: M makes sense?

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Speaker 2: Yeah and and yeah, so okay, throughout history you've got

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Speaker 2: this this shit that says wives of the legal property

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Speaker 2: their husbands. In medieval England it was called coverture, which

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Speaker 2: means that the wife's legal identity is subsumed by her husbands.

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Speaker 2: And so an unmarried woman could own property, but a

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Speaker 2: married woman couldn't because if once you're married, it all

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Speaker 2: goes to the husband.

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Speaker 3: Wow, that is backwards as shit.

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Speaker 2: I know. So it's like, why the fuck would anyone

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Speaker 2: get married? And mostly it's because of arranged marriages and

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Speaker 2: being forced to.

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Speaker 3: So there wasn't any like benefit. There wasn't the excuse

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Speaker 3: of like tax breaks, right like back then, there wasn't

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Speaker 3: really like why wouldn't women get married if she had

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Speaker 3: the choice?

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Speaker 2: I you know, everything that I was reading just basically

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Speaker 2: had the like you kind of like couldn't. It was

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Speaker 2: very hard to also in many ways, it was very

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Speaker 2: hard to go through life as an unmarried woman. And

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Speaker 2: I think this, I think it does change like century

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Speaker 2: to century and like country to country, like exactly how

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Speaker 2: free people are kind of in the same way that

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Speaker 2: I feel like whenever I read about like historical gayness,

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Speaker 2: it's so different. It'll be like twenty years of awesome

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Speaker 2: on this island and then everyone dies and that, you know,

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Speaker 2: it's like and I feel like the rights of women,

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Speaker 2: as best as I can tell, in medieval Europe would

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Speaker 2: would fluctuate a lot. But I think people were getting

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Speaker 2: married because you were like fucking told to.

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Speaker 3: Basically, it's just like the path of life that was

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Speaker 3: laid out for you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think you also literally don't have a

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Speaker 2: choice in a lot of cases. And so English law

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Speaker 2: does this thing. And there's this problem where if English

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Speaker 2: law does this thing, then the rest of the fucking

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Speaker 2: world's law does this thing. Because I don't know if

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Speaker 2: you knew this stream, but England hasn't always stayed on

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Speaker 2: its island.

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Speaker 3: Oh really?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Has it got other places? English people been places they

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Speaker 3: don't belong.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you know, and they showed up as tourists

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Speaker 2: and took some pictures and went home. And then for

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Speaker 2: some weird reason, when they showed up as tourists, all

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Speaker 2: the other countries swore allegiance to their monarchy and anyway

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Speaker 2: with all colonization and shit, their bullshit legal institutions get

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Speaker 2: inherited by legal systems all around the world, including the US,

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Speaker 2: and in the US all coverture wasn't really challenged until

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Speaker 2: the nineteenth century, and it lingers in legal codes today

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Speaker 2: still in various places, but state by state, each state

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Speaker 2: slowly got rid of coverture.

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Speaker 3: I'm the stand in for the dummies in the room.

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Speaker 3: What is coverture?

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Speaker 1: Oh?

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Speaker 2: Sorry, So that's the the idea that the wife's legal

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Speaker 2: identity is subsumed by the husband's.

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Speaker 3: Okay, got it.

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Speaker 2: And so it's a little bit like the wife is

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Speaker 2: the property, but it's a little bit like the wife

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Speaker 2: doesn't exist.

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Speaker 3: Like legally, you know, it kind of disappears.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Louisiana was the last state to get rid of coverture.

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Speaker 2: Nineteen seventy nine, they finally got rid of it, and

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Speaker 2: then nineteen eighty the Supreme Court ruled it federally unconstitutional.

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Speaker 2: And I'm currently I'm hoping that the current Supreme Court

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Speaker 2: is not listening to this podcast at getting any ideas. Yes,

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Speaker 2: I hope not, Sophie. Can we add a legal disclaimer

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Speaker 2: that anyone who is currently serving on the Supreme Court

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Speaker 2: or who determines what cases are heard by the Supreme

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Speaker 2: Court isn't allowed to listen to this episode.

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Speaker 1: I think you just did all right.

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Speaker 2: If you are listening and you are on the Supreme Court,

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Speaker 2: you have broken the law and you should report directly

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Speaker 2: to jail.

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Speaker 1: Also, most of you fuck off.

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Speaker 3: Yeah yeah.

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Speaker 2: Non English conquered areas also managed to have similar shit

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Speaker 2: because of other kind of internal colonization of Europe. You

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Speaker 2: have the Napoleonic Code, which spread throughout Europe, which made

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Speaker 2: women the property of husbands as it went. Ironically, the

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Speaker 2: Napoleonic Code, I think also like spread legalization of homosexuality,

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Speaker 2: but it also spread anyway.

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Speaker 3: Mixed bags, yeah, double edged.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. French women didn't get the right to work outside

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Speaker 2: the home without their husband's permission until nineteen sixty five.

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Speaker 3: Wow.

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Speaker 2: Wow, famously liberal or I guess famously neutral. Switzerland didn't

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Speaker 2: offer marriage equality until nineteen eighty eight, with like a

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Speaker 2: super narrow vote.

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Speaker 3: That is unsettling.

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Speaker 2: I know, it was like it was like fifty three

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Speaker 2: or fifty six percent of the population was like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: let's make women equal in marriage.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we're all was just like, oh, that place is fine,

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Speaker 3: they're neutral, nothing bad happens over there.

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Speaker 2: They make pocket knives. Yeah, exactly, and hide all the money. Okay,

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Speaker 2: So in the US didn't have the right to open

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Speaker 2: credit card accounts, or rather, they could be denied opening

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Speaker 2: credit card accounts if they don't have their husband's permission

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Speaker 2: or whatever until guess what year.

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Speaker 3: I mean at this point nineteen ninety eight.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Well, well it was actually nineteen seventy four. I

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Speaker 2: kind of set you up.

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Speaker 3: I was really, yeah, thinking the worst of humanity, which

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Speaker 3: is fine, usually usually that's true.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, in nineteen seventy four, the Equal Credit Opportunity Act

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Speaker 2: prevents creditors from discriminating against people based on race, sex,

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Speaker 2: or marital status. And even then, the thing about sex

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Speaker 2: and marital status was literally slipped into the bill at

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Speaker 2: the last minute. There was a congress person named Lindy

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Speaker 2: Boggs who hand wrote it onto the bill and made

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Speaker 2: photocopies to pass out and was like, oh, I'm sure

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Speaker 2: this was just an oversight that you made this Credit

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Speaker 2: Opportunity Act and didn't include women in marital status in it, right,

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Speaker 2: And they were like, okay, fine, and they passed the bill.

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Speaker 3: Wow.

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Speaker 2: Interesting critical support for someone I know nothing else about.

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Speaker 2: Box plus So most of the past thousand years or so.

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Speaker 2: Western women again, at least Western women. That's what I've

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Speaker 2: looked at in the context of this particular episode shit

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Speaker 2: run of it. When it comes to marriage, there's this

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Speaker 2: essay that I think you Scherene would like. It's from

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Speaker 2: nineteen oh seven and it's by Vulturing Declaire and it's

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Speaker 2: called those who marry do ill.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that sounds sick.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And it was a response to there was like

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Speaker 2: this like debate and someone else presented those who marry

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Speaker 2: do Well, and so she was like, Nah, those who

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Speaker 2: marry do.

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Speaker 3: Ill well epic nineteen oh seven. That was that's a

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Speaker 3: good on you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, who is it? By Vulturing Declare One Future Friend

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Speaker 2: of the Pod Vulturing Declare she wants some she's like

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Speaker 2: against the prison system, and so when someone tries to

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Speaker 2: assassinate her, she like doesn't call the cops on them,

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Speaker 2: even though he shot her, and then like gets handled

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Speaker 2: in other ways and all this shit. I don't think

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Speaker 2: he disappears or anything. Anyway. I don't know enough about

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Speaker 2: that story yet because I haven't researched that episode yet.

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Speaker 2: But Future Friend of.

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Speaker 3: The Yeah, that's a little crumb for later.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, And so if you know this show, you know,

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Speaker 2: if there's a bad set of laws and social practices,

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Speaker 2: there are people fighting against it. And how do you

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Speaker 2: think people fought against marriage, Sharen when divorce wasn't.

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Speaker 3: An option assuming they're already married or like, yeah, I

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Speaker 3: mean the only logical like a solution seems like they

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Speaker 3: would have to kill their husbands.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, poison, Yeah, poison is a really women solve the

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Speaker 2: problem of marriage with poison?

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Speaker 3: Hell yeah. So but like, honestly, like really think about it.

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Speaker 3: What was the choice there was like not all murder.

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Speaker 3: Actually I shouldn't say that, but I think when you push

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Speaker 3: people against a wall. This is in context of so

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Speaker 3: many things, so many things, but people will do things

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Speaker 3: that they wouldn't normally do, and everyone's capable of the

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Speaker 3: same amount of things. You know, no one's like born

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Speaker 3: unless it's like actually like a chemical thing. But I

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Speaker 3: think anything that you see someone do and you're like,

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Speaker 3: oh my god, you can also do that because you're

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Speaker 3: like you're just the same species and you have the

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Speaker 3: capability of, like, in my opinion, anything can push you

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Speaker 3: to the edge. Yeah, you know. So my point is

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Speaker 3: I support this kind of murder. Yeah, and that's all

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna say.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I am putting them on my show, cool

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Speaker 2: people who did cool stuff. So no, but that that

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Speaker 2: makes a lot of sense, And even that point about

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Speaker 2: anyone can do any of these things is worth thinking

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Speaker 2: about also from the other point of view of like,

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Speaker 2: you know, when when we do episodes that are about

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Speaker 2: like people who like organized and did all this crazy

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Speaker 2: shit that is a little bit more above board and

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Speaker 2: a little bit less murder, that's stuff we can do,

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Speaker 2: you know, And I like, I do a history podcast

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Speaker 2: not to be like all the cool people are dead

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Speaker 2: and everyone who listens to this sucks, you know.

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Speaker 3: But like I mean, it's hard for me to remember

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Speaker 3: that even like I just said it out loud, like

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Speaker 3: sounding like I really believe that I was saying. But

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Speaker 3: it's hard for me to believe that like real change

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Speaker 3: can happen because you hear about all those revolutionaries, and

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Speaker 3: you hear about people that were like fighting in a

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Speaker 3: much more impressive time, and you're like, wow, those are badasses,

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Speaker 3: and you forget that you can do the same thing.

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Speaker 3: I forget anyway for myself, because I think we get

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Speaker 3: a little bit complacent, And also I think like history

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Speaker 3: in general makes things seem really romantic and like far away.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, I think reminding ourselves that we are just

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Speaker 3: as capable of not more so, if we wanted to be.

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Speaker 3: But it's just about wanting to be, and it's about executing,

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Speaker 3: executing that.

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Speaker 2: Want, executing something.

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Speaker 3: Executing something good. Job, Wow, I cannot up.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, no, And it's such a I don't know.

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Speaker 2: That's an important point. And and I will say the

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Speaker 2: institution of marriage is still not inherently great, but is

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Speaker 2: a different structure than it was before, and divorce is

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Speaker 2: available to more people. So I'm not advocating, I'm just

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Speaker 2: describing what people who had their backs up against the

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Speaker 2: wall chose to do. So Medieval Italy had this reputation

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Speaker 2: that may or may not have been deserved of being

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Speaker 2: fucking obsessed with poison. Supposedly, Medieval and Renaissance Italy had

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Speaker 2: in whole poison factories. The authorities were like constantly testing

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Speaker 2: poison and antidotes on prisoners and animals. Italian perfumers had

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Speaker 2: side gigs making poison.

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Speaker 3: Wait, so what was this? What was most of this

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Speaker 3: poison comprised of? Like, was there like a so hot one.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, we'll actually talk about a lot of what

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Speaker 2: people use to poison people in detail on this episode,

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Speaker 2: but the big new poison on the scene for most

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Speaker 2: of what we're talking about is Arsenic.

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Speaker 3: Okay, Okay, I was I was gonna say that. I

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Speaker 3: was just like, I don't know, Yeah, it's a smart suggestion,

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Speaker 3: but I'm glad my mind was in the right track.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, totally. And so Italians had this reputation

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Speaker 2: of being these master poisoners, and so they would get

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Speaker 2: hired by courts all over Europe to be like, oh,

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Speaker 2: we need a court poisoner, come on over, or like

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Speaker 2: at one point supposedly, and but all of this is

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Speaker 2: wrapped up in myth, right, and we'll talk about that

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Speaker 2: some too, But supposedly at one point, like you know,

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Speaker 2: some monarch is like, oh, I need fifty poisoners to

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Speaker 2: win this war for me by going and poisoning all

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Speaker 2: the wells over and you know, enemy land or whatever.

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Speaker 2: Crazy one English guy wrote at the time, the Italians,

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Speaker 2: above all other nations, most practiced revenge by treasons and

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Speaker 2: are especially and especially are skillful in making and giving poisons.

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Speaker 2: And so it's kind of this like, oh, those sketchy Italians, right,

393
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Speaker 2: but you know whatever, that's so interesting.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I guess it kind of it makes sense,

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Speaker 3: like I mean, obviously they're movies or whatever. All the

396
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Speaker 3: stories you hear about that time, there is a lot

397
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Speaker 3: of poison involved. There's a lot of like assassinations evolving

398
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Speaker 3: poison or like whatever. Yeah, and so I guess I

399
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Speaker 3: for I forget that that's like an actual thing that

400
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Speaker 3: makes sense.

401
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Speaker 2: Yeah, because it seems like like a like a wizard's

402
00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:43,520
Speaker 2: spell or yeah, yeah, the dragon came or the court

403
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Speaker 2: poisoner slipped their ring open and poisoned the.

404
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Speaker 3: King drank the wine and then fell over and whatever.

405
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Speaker 2: Yeah, oh no, And I actually didn't write this in

406
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Speaker 2: a script, but the kings and shit were fucking obsessed

407
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Speaker 2: and paranoid where they would have like food tests, and

408
00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:03,080
Speaker 2: the food testers would like, like the kings ate shit

409
00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:06,720
Speaker 2: because like the food tester would come and eat a

410
00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:08,919
Speaker 2: little bit of everything, but sometimes we just stir it

411
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Speaker 2: all up together and like and so the food by

412
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Speaker 2: the time it like is ready for the king to

413
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Speaker 2: eat is like cold and like take like just destroyed.

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Speaker 2: And also strong flavors would mask the scent and taste

415
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Speaker 2: of poison, so they would avoid the like strong flavors,

416
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Speaker 2: and their concept of strong flavors was like onions and garlic.

417
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Speaker 3: Maybe not explains English cuisine.

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Speaker 2: I know, That's what I was trying to figure out.

419
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Speaker 2: I couldn't find a direct link, but it seems because

420
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Speaker 2: it's like, well, we don't know about those. But then

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Speaker 2: I'm like, but I bet the peasants, I mean, they're

422
00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:40,919
Speaker 2: already like turnips and shit, right, so the peasants are

423
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Speaker 2: probably eating some spicy shit.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean the solution to that, mister Kings, wherever

425
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Speaker 3: you are is to make your own fucking.

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Speaker 2: Food, totally. Yeah, And they would like eat alone, and

427
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Speaker 2: then they would like, like one king, I can't remember

428
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Speaker 2: which one cause again it didn't make it in the script,

429
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Speaker 2: he would like wet all of his napkins and have

430
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Speaker 2: his like testers lick the napkins, and so the like

431
00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:13,000
Speaker 2: the fucking handkerchief he's cleaning his face with or whatever

432
00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:16,960
Speaker 2: is like wet and covered in someone else's spittle. Wall

433
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Speaker 2: why in case there's poison on the napkins.

434
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Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, that's a little bit too far.

435
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Speaker 2: Oh And the best part is none of it worked,

436
00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:30,199
Speaker 2: because these these poisons don't take five minutes to show up.

437
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Speaker 2: They take take a couple hours at least, you know. Yeah,

438
00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:39,040
Speaker 2: so poison times, ye oldie poison times. But a lot

439
00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:40,879
Speaker 2: of it was fake. But there was like everyone was

440
00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:42,800
Speaker 2: like freaked out about it, and it's hard to tell

441
00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:43,840
Speaker 2: how much was real or not.

442
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:44,520
Speaker 3: Mm hm.

443
00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:48,200
Speaker 2: One Italian poison of note was used by the Borgia

444
00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:51,040
Speaker 2: family to murder a ton of political folks like bishops

445
00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:54,760
Speaker 2: and all that stuff. And it was a cantarella or

446
00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:58,760
Speaker 2: thought and it might have been copper arsenic and phosphorus

447
00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:01,800
Speaker 2: prepared and the decaying carcass of a hog.

448
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:03,040
Speaker 1: Hmmm.

449
00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:05,920
Speaker 2: Because what's cool. And we're gonna get to more of this.

450
00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:08,760
Speaker 2: This is the time when science and magic are just fucking.

451
00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:13,200
Speaker 2: Science and magic are just in bed, just fucking.

452
00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:16,800
Speaker 3: I appreciate that. Yeah, I was gonna say that sounds

453
00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:17,439
Speaker 3: kind of witchy.

454
00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:21,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know. Yeah. And one of the reasons why

455
00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:23,080
Speaker 2: I think that's a lot of this is exaggerated. There's

456
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:26,119
Speaker 2: so many things to say. Yes, Italy was obsessed with poison.

457
00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:28,320
Speaker 2: There's all these poisons blah blah blah blah blah. But

458
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:33,480
Speaker 2: then like for example, Palmero, Polermo, pal marrow, you'd think

459
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:34,919
Speaker 2: I would have spelled it right when I wrote it

460
00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:37,520
Speaker 2: down into my script. So town is sicily that a

461
00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:40,280
Speaker 2: lot of this story takes place in It only had

462
00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:43,760
Speaker 2: over like a three hundred year period, there was only

463
00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:49,320
Speaker 2: seven executions for poison. So, like, I think a lot

464
00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:52,200
Speaker 2: of this is this sort of moral panic where basically

465
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:55,200
Speaker 2: anytime anyone important dies, people are like it was poison.

466
00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:59,080
Speaker 3: You know, Yeah, they've just like perpetuated this like fearful

467
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:03,520
Speaker 3: rumor yea more than it probably was. Yeah, yeah, that

468
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:05,840
Speaker 3: sounds like what we do now, So I know checks.

469
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:08,600
Speaker 2: Out, But people definitely fucked with poison. Killing people never

470
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:10,919
Speaker 2: goes out of style, and poison has always also been

471
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:12,760
Speaker 2: a weapon of those who don't have access to more

472
00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:15,800
Speaker 2: direct means of violence, which is to say, a woman's

473
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:19,760
Speaker 2: weapon again or has it been? Who knows? Because women

474
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:21,679
Speaker 2: kill people, right, Obviously we're going to talk about some

475
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:26,040
Speaker 2: women who absolutely kill some people, but patriarchal society condemns

476
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:29,240
Speaker 2: women in what amounts to witch trials over and over again. Also,

477
00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:33,440
Speaker 2: and everyone loves a good moral panic. So a lot

478
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:35,159
Speaker 2: of the killing we're going to talk about this week

479
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:38,120
Speaker 2: of women and Buy Women was actually about robbing property,

480
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:41,480
Speaker 2: and so I want to talk I'm going to go

481
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:43,280
Speaker 2: on this like little side quest before we get back

482
00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:45,520
Speaker 2: to the main quest. I'm really excited about the side quest.

483
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:49,480
Speaker 2: I want to talk about Countess Elizabeth Buttori, which I

484
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:52,040
Speaker 2: always thought was pronounced Bathory. Have you ever heard of

485
00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:52,560
Speaker 2: this person?

486
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:55,520
Speaker 3: Just that not I have not heard of, but Torri.

487
00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:59,440
Speaker 2: Okay, So this just to be clear listeners. Also, there's

488
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:01,560
Speaker 2: a little bit more of a content warning than usual

489
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:04,040
Speaker 2: on this episode because I'm not going to linger on

490
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 2: anything in graphic detail. But there's some torture and murder

491
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:10,000
Speaker 2: and sexual assault and shit in this week's topic. It's

492
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:13,240
Speaker 2: very medieval, and I'm sort of making a pun but

493
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:15,960
Speaker 2: also realizing that's just where the fucking word medieval, meaning

494
00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:17,840
Speaker 2: torture and shit comes from.

495
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:20,080
Speaker 3: I guess that's yeah, that makes sense, that's the root

496
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:21,200
Speaker 3: meaning of that word.

497
00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:24,960
Speaker 2: Yeah. Okay, So the story goes there is this woman,

498
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:30,520
Speaker 2: Countess Elizabeth Battore, the Blood Countess, the alleged inspiration for Dracula.

499
00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:34,040
Speaker 2: She's been claimed to be the most successful serial killer

500
00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:38,560
Speaker 2: in history, with upwards of six hundred and fifty bodies. Wow,

501
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 2: and I'm gonna tell I'm going to tell the most

502
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:45,960
Speaker 2: commonly heard version. First, but first before we do that,

503
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:49,840
Speaker 2: I want to know, so normally we're sponsored by very

504
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:53,200
Speaker 2: positive things. I think this time we're sponsored by Arsenic.

505
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:57,200
Speaker 2: But I'm wondering, Sharen, if you have anyone that you

506
00:25:57,240 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 2: would like this show to be sponsored by something that's

507
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:01,920
Speaker 2: just like a pure on adulterated positive thing for the world,

508
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:03,600
Speaker 2: like potatoes or arsenic.

509
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:11,119
Speaker 3: A positive thing for the world. Yeah, I mean, I

510
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:14,400
Speaker 3: need more of this. This is sponsored by my will

511
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:17,680
Speaker 3: to live because it's running out and I need more.

512
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:19,360
Speaker 3: So if I can buy some, that'd be great.

513
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:23,439
Speaker 2: Yeah. So if you purchase the products and services that

514
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:27,040
Speaker 2: we advertise, you will have more will to live. That

515
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:31,640
Speaker 2: is the promise and trap of consumer capitalism. Yep, here's

516
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:41,280
Speaker 2: some ads. Okay, So the commonly heard version of Betty.

517
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,960
Speaker 2: She was born in fifteen sixty Royalty in the Kingdom

518
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:48,320
Speaker 2: of Hungary. She wasn't born in Transylvania, but which was

519
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:50,720
Speaker 2: a region in Hungary at the time now Romania, but

520
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 2: her uncle was in charge of Transylvania, and she was

521
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:56,960
Speaker 2: epileptic child or what got called at the time the

522
00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:00,720
Speaker 2: more metal name falling sickness. And how do you treat

523
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:05,200
Speaker 2: falling sickness. Well, Scharene, you should try rubbing the blood

524
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 2: of someone without falling sickness on your lips or just

525
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:11,359
Speaker 2: drink that blood mixed up with powdered skull.

526
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 3: Oh, I mean they do do that like plasma facial

527
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:19,800
Speaker 3: these days, the vampire facial where they like literally take

528
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:22,560
Speaker 3: plasma out of you and put your on your face.

529
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:25,880
Speaker 3: Really so yeah, and it's supposed to like do wonders

530
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 3: for keeping you young forever and like skin rejuvenation. So no,

531
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:34,120
Speaker 3: it sounds like she was onto something.

532
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:36,120
Speaker 2: Then, buttre is definitely ahead of her time because we're

533
00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:37,960
Speaker 2: going to get to even more of her skin care routine.

534
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:40,720
Speaker 3: Oh hell yeah, she probably looked so.

535
00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 2: Good, I know. So her family was inbred as hell

536
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:47,399
Speaker 2: because their royalty and falling sickness and insanity ran in

537
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:49,640
Speaker 2: her family. Again, this is the sort of legend version

538
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:52,919
Speaker 2: of all this. Her family raised her up to be cruel,

539
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:55,719
Speaker 2: as rulers were at the time, so she grew up

540
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 2: watching brutal torture and executions at the hands of her family.

541
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,399
Speaker 2: Watched one Roma woman who is accused of stealing and

542
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:06,119
Speaker 2: selling children into slavery, which was almost certainly like a

543
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:09,960
Speaker 2: racist attack on the Roman woman because Roma people get

544
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:13,119
Speaker 2: accused of that kind of ship. This woman was sewn

545
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:19,639
Speaker 2: into a horse's stomach. Yeah alive, Yeah, I think so.

546
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:25,920
Speaker 2: Not for that long though. M yeah, I'm sorry. There's

547
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:30,199
Speaker 2: gonna be some yep, some medieval ship. She watched her

548
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 2: own cousin cut out the ears and noses off her

549
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:33,720
Speaker 2: bellious peasants.

550
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:35,360
Speaker 3: Mm hmm.

551
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:37,159
Speaker 2: Now I feel bad. I feel like I've done a

552
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:38,960
Speaker 2: bastard's No, you have.

553
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 1: Notice. Notice how I'm not flinching.

554
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 3: Not the sewing of the inside of the horse. I've

555
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:52,720
Speaker 3: never heard that, and if I have, I blocked it

556
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 3: out of my memory. That is that is sick.

557
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:58,480
Speaker 2: There are numerous types of torture and execution in this

558
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:00,840
Speaker 2: episode that I had never heard of, and I have

559
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 2: been reading fantasy books since before I knew how to read.

560
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:06,200
Speaker 2: I don't know how that worked, but I was probably

561
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 2: doing it genius. Her family was Calvinist on paper, but

562
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 2: they practiced Satanism and witchcraft at home. She spoke Hungarian, Slovak, Greek, Latin,

563
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 2: and German, and was one of the most educated people,

564
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:21,680
Speaker 2: let alone women, of her era. When she was thirteen,

565
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:24,320
Speaker 2: she bore her first child, who was fathered by a

566
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 2: peasant boy. The child was whisked away and never seen again,

567
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 2: and the peasant boy was castrated for having dared such.

568
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 2: And in the same year she was married off to

569
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 2: a baron named ferent Nedazsi, who was about five years

570
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:41,480
Speaker 2: older than her and was from a family that supposedly

571
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:45,160
Speaker 2: wasn't all fucked up like the Batteries. And this joined

572
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 2: like two of the most powerful families in the country, right,

573
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:49,640
Speaker 2: because women don't have any fucking choice in know they marry,

574
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 2: especially if you're fucking royalty and you're thirteen. Yeah, totally.

575
00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 2: She did get given a castle that she didn't even

576
00:29:58,320 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 2: have to live in. She had a different castle to

577
00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:02,440
Speaker 2: live in. She got like her own extra castle and

578
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 2: seventeen villages to own, because feudalism is fucking weird. Her

579
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 2: husband was a noble and a soul journey, was always

580
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 2: away from home, which I think probably suited her just fine.

581
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 2: They didn't conceive their first child until they've been married

582
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 2: for like ten years. He fought mainly against the Ottomans,

583
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:21,440
Speaker 2: because I think everyone who was an Ottoman was fighting

584
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 2: against the Ottomans at that point, and he was a

585
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:27,240
Speaker 2: brutally effective leader and a monster to his prisoners. He

586
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:32,200
Speaker 2: would impale them for fun. The Black Knight of Hungary,

587
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 2: leader of the Hungarian troops and hungry.

588
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:39,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's pretty cool. I can't deny that it's kind

589
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 3: of metal, I know, I know.

590
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, this whole there's multiple metal bands that I mean.

591
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 2: One of them is just called Bathory or maybe Victory.

592
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 2: Maybe it's pronounced correctly. I'm not sure. He teaches his

593
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 2: wife even more cruelty. At one point, he punishes a

594
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 2: girl by smearing her with honey so insects bite her.

595
00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 2: He has this whole game called kicking the Stars. I

596
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:07,560
Speaker 2: don't understand this game. To quote Alexandra bartoso Witz's right

597
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 2: up of this legend, it consisted of putting a piece

598
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:13,920
Speaker 2: of oil soaked paper between the fingers of a disobedient

599
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:19,640
Speaker 2: servant and setting it on fire. What was the thing called, uh,

600
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 2: kicking the stars? I don't know. If it was between

601
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:24,680
Speaker 2: the toes, it would make a little bit more sense.

602
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:27,480
Speaker 3: That sounds way more pleasant than it is.

603
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 2: It's totally Hey, kid, you want to play kicking the stars? Yeah,

604
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:35,800
Speaker 2: it's where I set some stuff on fire in your hand.

605
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 3: That's interesting and strange. Never heard of that.

606
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:42,840
Speaker 2: From the same I know, from the same source. He

607
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 2: also presented Elizabeth with a pair of gloves that ended

608
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 2: in claws, which she used to punish her servants.

609
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:54,160
Speaker 3: The original Wolverine and Dracula. Well she really had had

610
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:55,760
Speaker 3: had layers.

611
00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:59,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, like like Shrek.

612
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 3: Yeah. I also just like a side note that I

613
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 3: haven't forgotten since you said it. I forget that Transylvania

614
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:06,880
Speaker 3: was a real place, And I know there are people

615
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:10,360
Speaker 3: out there that do the same thing. So that's already

616
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 3: wild to me, Like it's already set in this fantasy

617
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:15,040
Speaker 3: reality time.

618
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally, Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I have a friend of

619
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 2: mine gave me a necklace that's a little vial of

620
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:29,400
Speaker 2: dirt from Transylvania. Oh that's cool, Okay. And so meanwhile,

621
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:31,360
Speaker 2: while her brave and cruel husband is off at war,

622
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:34,600
Speaker 2: Lizzie Batore is at home and she's getting into the

623
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 2: evil shit all of her own. Now. She's making potions

624
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 2: and casting spells and fucking people, even women. She travels

625
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:45,320
Speaker 2: around and has lesbian orgies. She invites witches and wizards

626
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:47,720
Speaker 2: to court. She keeps a guy who looks like a

627
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 2: vampire around. He's pale and has sharp teeth and wears

628
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 2: all black. Huh, and she gets the name the Beast

629
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:55,800
Speaker 2: of Setya, which is the name of her castle.

630
00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:56,960
Speaker 1: Was.

631
00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:00,240
Speaker 3: I mean, this is definitely not something you need to know.

632
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 3: But when did the vampire myths start? Like, when when

633
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:09,000
Speaker 3: did that being first get introduced into lore? I wonder.

634
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:12,240
Speaker 2: I used to know the answer to this better I got.

635
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:14,800
Speaker 2: I fell into a vampire rabbit hole a couple of

636
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:18,600
Speaker 2: years ago, I want to say. I mean, historically versions

637
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:20,240
Speaker 2: of it have kind of existed forever. It's kind of

638
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 2: from the like we thought someone was dead, so we

639
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:24,760
Speaker 2: buried them, but they weren't dead, so then they came

640
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:28,640
Speaker 2: back and it scared us, right. But it's around this

641
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:32,200
Speaker 2: time period that you start getting more and more folkloric vampires,

642
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:34,240
Speaker 2: and they're kind of interesting. In the old vampire stories,

643
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:38,040
Speaker 2: some of them are like aristocrats, and it's kind of

644
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:40,320
Speaker 2: this like fear of the aristocratic, but then some of

645
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:42,920
Speaker 2: them are also like all kinds of other shit. I

646
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 2: should do a vampire episode at some point when I

647
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:46,480
Speaker 2: actually know this off the top of my head.

648
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:48,959
Speaker 3: So you're reatively sucking the blood of the people.

649
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:54,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly, like staying young forever by you know,

650
00:33:56,920 --> 00:34:01,880
Speaker 2: and so by our mid twenties against posedly, she's torturing people,

651
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:05,640
Speaker 2: mostly peasant women in her castle because you see Sharene,

652
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:07,600
Speaker 2: have you ever had a migraine?

653
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:08,959
Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, they suck.

654
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:12,680
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, what if I told you that nothing cures

655
00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:15,560
Speaker 2: a migraine like the screams of your victims.

656
00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:23,600
Speaker 3: Hmmm, I do. I am pausing for a moment of thought. Yeah,

657
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:25,080
Speaker 3: that would be hard to turn down if it was

658
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:26,799
Speaker 3: a really bad migraine. I'm not gonna lie.

659
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:30,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, fair enough. So so she starts torturing people to

660
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:33,759
Speaker 2: cure her migraines. And but that's what she believed, Like,

661
00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:39,640
Speaker 2: my my, if my victims are screaming, Yes, this is

662
00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:43,640
Speaker 2: what the legend about her has, right, right, right, yeah,

663
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:46,360
Speaker 2: all of this. Yeah, and she's doing all kinds of

664
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:47,920
Speaker 2: shit according to this legend that I'm not going to

665
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:51,399
Speaker 2: get in the details about. By the time she's forty one,

666
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 2: she's got a witch best friend who moves in with her,

667
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:58,880
Speaker 2: just a gal pal named Anna Darvulia, who is described

668
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:02,080
Speaker 2: as a while old beast in a female body, which

669
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 2: is objectively cool. So when Anna around, but Torri gets

670
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:09,399
Speaker 2: crueler and starts killing her victims. She claims that there's

671
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:12,360
Speaker 2: a cholera outbreak, and that excuses all the dead people,

672
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:15,080
Speaker 2: including now the daughters of the gentry who've come to

673
00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:17,239
Speaker 2: learn manners in her court. So she's like, oh, send

674
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:19,319
Speaker 2: your daughters to learn manners. They will live as prey

675
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:21,400
Speaker 2: in my castle and I will hunt them. She probably

676
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:25,359
Speaker 2: leaves that part out of the letters Interesting and most Famous, so.

677
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:27,560
Speaker 3: She's not just killing peasants at that point.

678
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:30,960
Speaker 2: Then, right, she moves on to the royalty or the gentry.

679
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:35,520
Speaker 2: Most famously, she's known to bathe in her victim's blood

680
00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:38,719
Speaker 2: to stay young forever, which is why it's a shame

681
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:40,600
Speaker 2: it's pronounced batory instead of bathroy.

682
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:42,400
Speaker 1: I was gonna say hot.

683
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:48,320
Speaker 2: Supposedly she put other girls and women into iron maidens

684
00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:50,839
Speaker 2: with drains at the bottom of the iron maiden and

685
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:53,239
Speaker 2: like attached it to a chain that swings above her

686
00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:54,880
Speaker 2: takes showers and blood.

687
00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:58,759
Speaker 3: Huh, And I know.

688
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:01,400
Speaker 2: And the way that she learns that blood is good skincare,

689
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:03,920
Speaker 2: much like twenty first century has learned that blood is

690
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:06,759
Speaker 2: good skincare, is that whenever maids would fuck up while

691
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:11,480
Speaker 2: doing her hair for she would massacre them and noticed

692
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:15,080
Speaker 2: that their blood was good for her skin. But the

693
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:19,800
Speaker 2: blood of aristocrats works better. So I would say that basically,

694
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:23,360
Speaker 2: the blood of billionaires will keep you young forever.

695
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:26,279
Speaker 3: I would say that is a fact.

696
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, O, caase anyone's wondering, Yeah, is this where.

697
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:33,360
Speaker 1: The super problematic vampire facial thing comes from?

698
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:36,400
Speaker 3: I was thinking about that. I don't know, there's no

699
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:40,480
Speaker 3: way this is how it started. Maybe, but like the

700
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:44,880
Speaker 3: modern version of that is definitely interesting to think about

701
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:47,080
Speaker 3: because a lot of people dismissed it, but apparently it's

702
00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 3: actually a very it works like because I mean, what

703
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:55,160
Speaker 3: the first thing you have to do is though, is

704
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:57,640
Speaker 3: like you have to like micro needle your skin, so

705
00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 3: you're wounding your skin and then the blood over it

706
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:04,600
Speaker 3: your your face is apparently like the act of your

707
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:08,240
Speaker 3: face healing the wound and like generating you skin.

708
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:12,880
Speaker 1: It used to be. And the reason why it was

709
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:17,440
Speaker 1: where where there was primarily is they were using not

710
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:21,319
Speaker 1: your own blood. That was the thing.

711
00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:24,879
Speaker 3: I can't do that, that was a thing.

712
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:28,360
Speaker 2: But you can't create market for blood.

713
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:29,720
Speaker 3: Where does the blood come from?

714
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:33,640
Speaker 1: Great question? And there was all kinds of you know,

715
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:36,960
Speaker 1: as you can imagine health and sanitary issues there.

716
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:38,839
Speaker 3: That is that is bad.

717
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:41,319
Speaker 1: But yeah, no, no, but what I know exactly what

718
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:44,239
Speaker 1: you're talking about, which is, you know, less.

719
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:49,280
Speaker 3: Pr or like collagen, and it's.

720
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:51,920
Speaker 1: Done by like board certified like dermatologists.

721
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:52,719
Speaker 3: No, no, it's like that.

722
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:55,520
Speaker 2: But no, this other thing. You can't create a market

723
00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:59,799
Speaker 2: for blood. That's the bad thing. Yeah, ahead, I did

724
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:00,640
Speaker 2: not realize that.

725
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:05,239
Speaker 1: But that, Yeah, it was in fact a thing. I'm

726
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:07,480
Speaker 1: just wondering if this is the original source of it.

727
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:09,839
Speaker 1: I mean it sounds like it, which would be kind

728
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:13,360
Speaker 1: of cool. Yeah, and what Margaret's saying is you're renfercing

729
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 1: something from pop culture Sharen and Sophie. I don't know

730
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:16,680
Speaker 1: the answer to that.

731
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:20,800
Speaker 2: Fair enough, Yes, that is what's happening.

732
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:23,640
Speaker 1: Fair enough, Yeah, please continue.

733
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I mean, you know, sixteenth and seventeenth century vampires.

734
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:29,600
Speaker 2: I have a little bit more knowledge about.

735
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:34,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank god, I will say I if I had

736
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:37,400
Speaker 3: the money. I don't think I'm above of the like

737
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:41,320
Speaker 3: the actual version of the PRP plasma facial thing, because

738
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:46,799
Speaker 3: collagen your body can't create college and once it's gone,

739
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:49,719
Speaker 3: you're just gonna get more hollow and sad. There's nothing

740
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:54,960
Speaker 3: wrong with be hollow and sad. But but the thing is,

741
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:58,600
Speaker 3: if something works, regardless of how weird it is, you

742
00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:00,920
Speaker 3: will do it. And I think this lady is doing

743
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:03,600
Speaker 3: the same thing, you know, like it's working for her,

744
00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:05,200
Speaker 3: and so she's gonna keep doing it.

745
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:08,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, fair enough in sick oh okay, and so yeah,

746
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:11,560
Speaker 2: so she's doing this bathing of blood, and she also

747
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:14,120
Speaker 2: keeps girls as prey in her castle to be hunted

748
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:14,600
Speaker 2: at a whim.

749
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:18,880
Speaker 3: Why girls? Why just girls? I'm not sure it easier

750
00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 3: to get probably so.

751
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:24,080
Speaker 2: I actually I do have an answer that I'll come

752
00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:26,040
Speaker 2: in the second half of when I'm talking about her,

753
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:28,640
Speaker 2: when I say what the actual story is, and I

754
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:31,600
Speaker 2: think that all In sixteen oh four, her husband, the

755
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:34,280
Speaker 2: Black Knight, is off at war again, and he's forty

756
00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:36,960
Speaker 2: eight fucking years old, and he either gets slain in

757
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:39,360
Speaker 2: battle or gets poisoned by his wife, depending on the

758
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:43,279
Speaker 2: story you read. And with him dead, suddenly his widow

759
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:48,040
Speaker 2: inherits everything, and rumors are spreading about what's happening in

760
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:50,239
Speaker 2: the castle at this point, and the king sends this

761
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:54,000
Speaker 2: guy his palatine is the name of the title, basically

762
00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:55,560
Speaker 2: the Hand of the King. I can make a pop

763
00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:57,840
Speaker 2: culture reference, it just has to be about just shows

764
00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:00,560
Speaker 2: about people with swords, fair enough, The Hand of the

765
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:04,400
Speaker 2: King goes to go investigate. Over three hundred witnesses to

766
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:07,480
Speaker 2: torture and murder come forward and they are exhooming all

767
00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:10,920
Speaker 2: these bodies and shit from graveyards to find all the torture.

768
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:14,640
Speaker 2: They find other bodies and the tunnels under the castle.

769
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:18,520
Speaker 2: So on December thirtieth, sixteen ten, the Hand of the

770
00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:21,719
Speaker 2: King goes personally to her castle and arrests her and

771
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:25,640
Speaker 2: four of her servant accomplices. When they arrive, she's covered

772
00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:28,640
Speaker 2: in blood over the corpse of a mutilated girl with

773
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:32,040
Speaker 2: another livingess prey in the castle. And when they search

774
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:34,840
Speaker 2: her castle, they find her journal detailing the deaths of

775
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:36,960
Speaker 2: six hundred and fifty people.

776
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:39,840
Speaker 3: She kept a diary about all of this.

777
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:42,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, again, we'll get with anything.

778
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:47,680
Speaker 3: Totally, like no DNA nothing, you're writing about how many

779
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:51,279
Speaker 3: people you've killed? But I have a question. Sorry, side,

780
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:54,719
Speaker 3: it's okay about the answer. What was the gender of

781
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:56,919
Speaker 3: the kid that they had together? Was it a boy

782
00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:57,440
Speaker 3: or a girl?

783
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:00,720
Speaker 2: And I don't know what the one that was secret?

784
00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 3: Oh no, no, no, you said that they.

785
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:05,560
Speaker 2: Oh they did. I think she had up having like

786
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:07,600
Speaker 2: ten of his kids in the end. Oh, but like

787
00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:10,239
Speaker 2: I don't remember how many of them survived all of

788
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:12,400
Speaker 2: these stories are like, and then they had seven children,

789
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:13,920
Speaker 2: three of whom survived to adulthood.

790
00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:18,279
Speaker 3: Right, I guess my question is, like, would normally the

791
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:20,600
Speaker 3: air get everything versus the queen.

792
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:25,839
Speaker 2: I oh, it's an interesting point. I don't know how

793
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:28,040
Speaker 2: the inheritance was working in this particular setup. I do

794
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:30,360
Speaker 2: know that she inherited everything from her dad husband.

795
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:33,640
Speaker 3: That's pretty I mean, that's a cool point to think about,

796
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:35,319
Speaker 3: because it's a pretty sick deal.

797
00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:38,240
Speaker 2: Yeah. And it might have been because she wasn't a ruler.

798
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:40,480
Speaker 2: I mean, she was a ruler, but you know, not

799
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:42,880
Speaker 2: high up, right, Or she was high up, but she

800
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:44,919
Speaker 2: wasn't the fucking queen of Hungary or whatever.

801
00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:45,239
Speaker 1: Right.

802
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:50,200
Speaker 2: So they all get arrested, The accomplices confess, and three

803
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:52,600
Speaker 2: of them are executed, one is given life in prison,

804
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:59,360
Speaker 2: and the countess gets convicted of vamporism, sorcery, paganism and

805
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:01,680
Speaker 2: was bricked up in a room in her own castle

806
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:04,080
Speaker 2: and lived out the rest of her days. And the

807
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:10,200
Speaker 2: blood Countess was defeated. Wow, except basically none of that's

808
00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:13,480
Speaker 2: fucking true. Oh, which is like, I know, I'm a

809
00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:15,040
Speaker 2: little bit like, I mean.

810
00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:17,279
Speaker 3: She's a terrible person if that was true. If that

811
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:21,600
Speaker 3: was true, she's like a disgusting torturer, serial killer person

812
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:25,200
Speaker 3: that had great skin. But uh yeah, interesting.

813
00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:27,279
Speaker 2: But I find I found a bunch of things in

814
00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:29,040
Speaker 2: this when I'm when I'm finding this kind of history

815
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:31,360
Speaker 2: where there'll be like a woman who is like attacked

816
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:33,840
Speaker 2: as this horrible witch or whatever, right, and then it'll

817
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:36,600
Speaker 2: be like, oh, actually, all that's lies, And so then

818
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:38,560
Speaker 2: people will be like, actually, she was perfectly fine and

819
00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:40,799
Speaker 2: normal and everything was fine and she was upstanding, and

820
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:43,279
Speaker 2: then you go like one step further and you're like, oh, no,

821
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:47,280
Speaker 2: she was really interesting and cool in a different way

822
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:48,640
Speaker 2: than being a vampire.

823
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:51,960
Speaker 3: Okay, I'm I'm in. You've hooked me.

824
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:56,640
Speaker 2: So she was raised Calvinist, she had falling sickness, she

825
00:42:56,719 --> 00:42:59,920
Speaker 2: might have been treated with blood. She probably witnessed cruelty

826
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:02,759
Speaker 2: at the hands of her parents. The sewing the woman

827
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 2: into the stomach of a horse. Thing it was probably

828
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:09,800
Speaker 2: didn't happen, not because they didn't do that, but because

829
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:12,240
Speaker 2: they did that to They didn't do it to peasants,

830
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:15,040
Speaker 2: because a peasant's life isn't worth killing a horse for.

831
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:18,000
Speaker 2: Because a peasant is worth less than a horse. Wow,

832
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:20,400
Speaker 2: So she probably did see someone get sewn into a

833
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:24,560
Speaker 2: stop horse of was whatever stomach of a horse. She

834
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:27,239
Speaker 2: certainly married the Black Knight, who absolutely was the Black

835
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:31,400
Speaker 2: Knight and a cruel, fucking, terrible person. He likely didn't

836
00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:34,440
Speaker 2: die valiantly in battle. It's also really unlikely that she

837
00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:37,680
Speaker 2: poisoned him, although I would not rule it out. He'd

838
00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:40,400
Speaker 2: been mysteriously sick for several years before he died, and

839
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:42,440
Speaker 2: actually had been unable to walk the last several years

840
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:44,840
Speaker 2: of his life. It was likely that he had poisoned

841
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 2: himself with a treatment he was taking for venereal disease,

842
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:51,280
Speaker 2: but some of those same treatments were used in popular

843
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:55,319
Speaker 2: poisons around that same time, so I don't know. She

844
00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:57,200
Speaker 2: might have been trying to get rid of her cruel husband.

845
00:43:57,239 --> 00:43:59,319
Speaker 2: That's the head canon for me, is that she did

846
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:02,920
Speaker 2: poison him and deserved it. But the investigation into Batory

847
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:05,919
Speaker 2: about wanton murder and witchcraft it started at the same

848
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:11,080
Speaker 2: time as her husband started getting sick, because when they

849
00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:14,560
Speaker 2: knew that she was going to inherit his wealth and

850
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:18,480
Speaker 2: most importantly, the king owed them a fuck ton of money,

851
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:22,200
Speaker 2: and that debt was canceled when she was convicted. Interesting,

852
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:25,960
Speaker 2: so the whole trial was almost certainly just about money

853
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:29,960
Speaker 2: and power, and then later the folkloric demonization of this

854
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:36,040
Speaker 2: Hungarian aristocrat was useful for Slovak nationalism, so it became

855
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:40,160
Speaker 2: a useful folklore. Right when she was arrested, she was

856
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:44,320
Speaker 2: eating dinner and not probably covered in blood. The evidence

857
00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:48,640
Speaker 2: of her journal was that a servant claimed to have

858
00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:51,400
Speaker 2: talked to investigator who saw the journal, but the journal

859
00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:55,360
Speaker 2: was never entered into evidence during the trial, so it

860
00:44:56,040 --> 00:45:00,400
Speaker 2: didn't exist. Her three accomplices did confess to doing all

861
00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:03,799
Speaker 2: those things while they were having their fingers ripped off

862
00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:08,520
Speaker 2: with red hot pinchers and being burned alive. One who

863
00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:12,480
Speaker 2: was I think you say, little person. He got off

864
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:18,400
Speaker 2: lucky and he was just beheaded. It wasn't quick and

865
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:20,799
Speaker 2: they never acted as witnesses in court. They just had

866
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:22,719
Speaker 2: their confessions before they were tortured to death.

867
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:29,120
Speaker 3: Wait, so you're saying the killing of the young girls

868
00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:30,960
Speaker 3: to stay young thing was true?

869
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:34,120
Speaker 2: No? No, so they didn't know. They didn't kill anyone

870
00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:34,960
Speaker 2: as far as they can tell.

871
00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:38,320
Speaker 3: No, so they only confess under torture. Yeah the deal.

872
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:39,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, and.

873
00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:42,520
Speaker 3: Huh.

874
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:45,960
Speaker 2: Interesting, she was never bricked into her castle. She was

875
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:50,760
Speaker 2: just put under house arrest, despite theoretically having like personally

876
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:54,080
Speaker 2: murdered more people than anyone before since it ever personally murdered.

877
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:57,480
Speaker 2: And they just were like, whatever, you have to stay

878
00:45:57,480 --> 00:46:00,439
Speaker 2: in your castle because we successfully robbed you. It would

879
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 2: also take about thirty people's blood to fill a bath,

880
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:06,920
Speaker 2: and the detail about the blood baths was added to

881
00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:10,520
Speaker 2: the folklore one hundred years after her death. There were

882
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:13,080
Speaker 2: probably no lesbian orgies, which is the saddest part for

883
00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:17,080
Speaker 2: the word damn, And she acted the galpal, so is

884
00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:20,520
Speaker 2: she real? Yes? And I believe in the galpal being

885
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:24,279
Speaker 2: gal pals mm hmmm, because and she wasn't accused of

886
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:26,840
Speaker 2: witchcraft or satanism in court, just the murders. All the

887
00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:31,680
Speaker 2: witchcraft was added later. The Iron Maiden never really existed

888
00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:35,520
Speaker 2: in Europe. It's an invention. Like the concept of the

889
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:38,480
Speaker 2: Iron Maiden is like so weird. The Victorians were like

890
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:41,279
Speaker 2: kind of being like it was like a Victorian like

891
00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:44,120
Speaker 2: con artist was like, look at this murder thing that

892
00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:46,520
Speaker 2: the medieval people had pay me a dollar to go

893
00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:47,440
Speaker 2: look at it or whatever.

894
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:50,240
Speaker 3: Damn, that guy really grifted.

895
00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:53,200
Speaker 2: I know, I know. Speaking of more metal bands that

896
00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:56,799
Speaker 2: came out of this. And you know, an iron maiden

897
00:46:56,840 --> 00:46:59,839
Speaker 2: For anyone listening who doesn't listen to iron maiden, it's

898
00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:02,680
Speaker 2: an upright human shaped coffin with metal spikes that you

899
00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:05,399
Speaker 2: put the person in your close in and they die, right.

900
00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:08,360
Speaker 2: But it is true that they would sew people up

901
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:12,200
Speaker 2: into the stomachs of horses. So maybe they did have

902
00:47:12,239 --> 00:47:15,040
Speaker 2: spikey boxes. It wouldn't surprise me if they had spikey boxes.

903
00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:17,800
Speaker 2: You know, they also had things close to iron maidens.

904
00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:19,160
Speaker 2: They would like put you in like kind of a

905
00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:22,360
Speaker 2: barrel with spikes, but you the spikes don't puncture you

906
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:27,040
Speaker 2: unless you move, so it's a like, hey, don't move

907
00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:27,680
Speaker 2: kind of bullshit.

908
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:29,959
Speaker 3: I mean, if you were rolling down a fucking hill,

909
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:32,239
Speaker 3: that sounds worse than just a quick little snap of

910
00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:33,560
Speaker 3: the iron maiden, you know what I mean.

911
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:35,000
Speaker 2: That's true, that's true.

912
00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:36,319
Speaker 3: That's that's bad.

913
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:40,520
Speaker 2: And where did have an iron maiden? Was ninth century Bagdad.

914
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:46,000
Speaker 2: Oh okay, the vizier Ibn al Zayat made a wooden

915
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:48,799
Speaker 2: chest full of spikes and would like throw people in it.

916
00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:53,200
Speaker 2: But live by the wooden chest full of spikes, die

917
00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:56,200
Speaker 2: by the wooden chest full of spikes. And in eight

918
00:47:56,280 --> 00:47:58,279
Speaker 2: hundred and forty seven he got thrown into his own

919
00:47:58,320 --> 00:47:59,160
Speaker 2: box and killed.

920
00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:03,040
Speaker 3: Wow, karma, I guess that's what you would call that.

921
00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:08,480
Speaker 2: But what but Torri was is really fucking interesting. She

922
00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:13,319
Speaker 2: was a healer and her accomplices basically were witches. They

923
00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:17,440
Speaker 2: were midwives and healers that she hired and her she

924
00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:20,360
Speaker 2: turned her castle into a place that taught women anatomy

925
00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:23,479
Speaker 2: and medicine, which of course was all medieval as hell

926
00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:26,400
Speaker 2: and involved blood letting and like burning people's wounds with

927
00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:30,200
Speaker 2: hot irons and shit. The like red handed that she

928
00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:35,319
Speaker 2: got caught was well, actually, before I tell you that,

929
00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:38,359
Speaker 2: you know who else will heal you and heal your

930
00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:41,480
Speaker 2: soul and give you the will to live. Everything that

931
00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:44,560
Speaker 2: comes after which we have personally that we have not

932
00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:46,359
Speaker 2: personally vet it. The ads that are coming after are

933
00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:47,800
Speaker 2: randomly generated.

934
00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:54,240
Speaker 4: And we are back from those ads that we all

935
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:58,160
Speaker 4: personally endorse and love because everyone who participates in capitalism

936
00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:01,360
Speaker 4: appreciates their own role in the perpetuation of a society

937
00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:04,279
Speaker 4: that's destroying the entire globe.

938
00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:08,000
Speaker 2: Yep ah, okay, where were we?

939
00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:12,600
Speaker 3: Uh? Red handed? She was caught red handed.

940
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:14,759
Speaker 2: So she was caught red handed which was because yeah,

941
00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:16,960
Speaker 2: she was there. She was in the middle of like

942
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:18,240
Speaker 2: I mean, she was in a middle of eating dinner,

943
00:49:18,239 --> 00:49:20,120
Speaker 2: but there was someone there who was being treated, a

944
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:22,040
Speaker 2: young local woman who had been attacked by a wild

945
00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:25,760
Speaker 2: animal and so had like been taken to the castle

946
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:29,440
Speaker 2: where you know, the weird ass countess with all of

947
00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:34,359
Speaker 2: her like weird ass probably lesbian witch friends would heal

948
00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:36,160
Speaker 2: you up. And so that was where like the dead

949
00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:39,160
Speaker 2: bodies and stuff would come from that, and like there

950
00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:41,279
Speaker 2: were all of these you know, disease outbreaks happening at

951
00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:42,600
Speaker 2: the time that was killing a lot of people.

952
00:49:43,640 --> 00:49:47,239
Speaker 3: But interesting, that's that's a really unfortunate twist or like

953
00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:51,080
Speaker 3: way to change that story. And you know, like she

954
00:49:51,239 --> 00:49:55,240
Speaker 3: was just uh because before you said but you described

955
00:49:55,239 --> 00:49:57,680
Speaker 3: her as very smart, like knowing all these languages and

956
00:49:57,719 --> 00:50:00,479
Speaker 3: like all this stuff, So it makes sense that she'd

957
00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:04,239
Speaker 3: be interested in like their version of medicine back then.

958
00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:04,879
Speaker 2: Yeah.

959
00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:09,120
Speaker 3: Uh, that's that's a I mean, not surprised that I

960
00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:10,960
Speaker 3: got twisted that way, but it's unfortunate.

961
00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:14,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's just like such a classic way that

962
00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:15,440
Speaker 2: like I mean it all has to do with witch

963
00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:17,120
Speaker 2: hunts and not serial murder, you know.

964
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:21,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, and also just like that stereotype of like, uh,

965
00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:25,440
Speaker 3: I guess it's like a witchy stereotype, like an older

966
00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:29,239
Speaker 3: like someone uh like sucking the life out of a

967
00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:31,879
Speaker 3: young person to stay young because that's what they because

968
00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:33,400
Speaker 3: like it's vanity and like whatever.

969
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:35,239
Speaker 2: Totally, so in.

970
00:50:35,120 --> 00:50:37,480
Speaker 3: This case it was literal. But I mean you can

971
00:50:37,520 --> 00:50:40,120
Speaker 3: say that about a lot of uh, I don't know,

972
00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:41,000
Speaker 3: shitty people.

973
00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:45,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, but in my head canon version, they're doing blood

974
00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:49,120
Speaker 2: letting and they're using leeches and shit on people. Why

975
00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:53,640
Speaker 2: not use some of that blood for your own skin?

976
00:50:55,760 --> 00:51:00,200
Speaker 3: So, I mean you said that when she was young,

977
00:51:00,760 --> 00:51:03,239
Speaker 3: her epilepsy was treated that way, right, I don't think

978
00:51:03,280 --> 00:51:08,160
Speaker 3: she's above that. I think if especially with these vampire facials,

979
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:12,000
Speaker 3: I'm calling them that because that's essentially what they are. Yeah,

980
00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:17,520
Speaker 3: there's blood, but they work apparently, and so yeah, I

981
00:51:17,560 --> 00:51:19,320
Speaker 3: don't think she would have had to go on gone

982
00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:21,520
Speaker 3: out of her way if that, if she was already

983
00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:24,440
Speaker 3: doing healing and stuff anyway, like blood living, you know

984
00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:24,919
Speaker 3: what I mean?

985
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:28,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally, yeah, exactly. Yeah, And it's like, you know,

986
00:51:28,560 --> 00:51:30,279
Speaker 2: because like people want to be like, aha, she was

987
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:33,960
Speaker 2: actually perfect, right, Like she's still like in my head

988
00:51:34,040 --> 00:51:37,280
Speaker 2: she still might have murdered her husband, who might probably

989
00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:40,480
Speaker 2: had it coming, you know, and she's still like I

990
00:51:40,520 --> 00:51:43,520
Speaker 2: don't know, like it like we just don't know. Because

991
00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:47,440
Speaker 2: when things get muddied so completely by like misogynist trials

992
00:51:47,440 --> 00:51:50,560
Speaker 2: and the misogynist folklore, you take someone who is probably

993
00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:54,239
Speaker 2: genuinely really weird, but you don't know how you know?

994
00:51:54,560 --> 00:51:56,560
Speaker 3: Right, Wait, so did you tell me how she died

995
00:51:56,640 --> 00:51:57,040
Speaker 3: yet or no?

996
00:51:57,640 --> 00:52:00,040
Speaker 2: So she so she gets put on house arrest and

997
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:02,320
Speaker 2: she kind of just like waste. So she like doesn't

998
00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:04,640
Speaker 2: actually live all that long after that, but she doesn't

999
00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:08,440
Speaker 2: die of any like particularly notable way. Maybe she can don't.

1000
00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:10,239
Speaker 3: Kill her now, just like exile her.

1001
00:52:10,200 --> 00:52:16,000
Speaker 2: Essentially into her own castle. Yeah, but I banish There

1002
00:52:16,080 --> 00:52:20,399
Speaker 2: is one really interesting end of this story. Okay, So

1003
00:52:20,440 --> 00:52:23,720
Speaker 2: she was buried at the local church and the locals

1004
00:52:23,719 --> 00:52:26,040
Speaker 2: were like, no, what are you fucking doing. She's like

1005
00:52:26,080 --> 00:52:29,080
Speaker 2: an evil vampire sorceress, demon from hell. Get her out

1006
00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:32,800
Speaker 2: of here. So she was moved to the family crypt

1007
00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:36,240
Speaker 2: somewhere else in the country. But that crypt was opened

1008
00:52:36,280 --> 00:52:39,760
Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety five and her body wasn't there.

1009
00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:47,080
Speaker 3: Oh damn, that's cool as shit, right, is Uh? That's

1010
00:52:47,160 --> 00:52:48,040
Speaker 3: so interesting.

1011
00:52:48,560 --> 00:52:51,000
Speaker 2: So maybe she was a vampire maybe. Okay, so she's

1012
00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:53,800
Speaker 2: like a healer vampire, right, who like occasionally has to

1013
00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:55,759
Speaker 2: kill people, you know or whatever, but like mostly.

1014
00:52:55,719 --> 00:52:59,520
Speaker 3: She's like, yeah, she uses her powers for good.

1015
00:52:59,640 --> 00:53:02,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, her husband sucks so away with him and you

1016
00:53:02,800 --> 00:53:03,480
Speaker 2: know who.

1017
00:53:04,320 --> 00:53:06,280
Speaker 3: I mean, where is her body that you have to wonder?

1018
00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:09,640
Speaker 3: I don't fucking know, Like maybe someone like unearthed her

1019
00:53:09,680 --> 00:53:12,880
Speaker 3: to keep the legend alive or something. Oh yeah, total

1020
00:53:12,960 --> 00:53:15,279
Speaker 3: lot of effort though to like think about years and

1021
00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:16,279
Speaker 3: years later, I don't know.

1022
00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:18,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it was before black metal kids were really

1023
00:53:18,520 --> 00:53:21,680
Speaker 2: much of a thing, so like mm hmm. Although I

1024
00:53:21,680 --> 00:53:24,400
Speaker 2: mean basically black metal kids have always you know, the

1025
00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:26,080
Speaker 2: black metal kids in our hearts have been doing this

1026
00:53:26,160 --> 00:53:33,520
Speaker 2: kind of shit forever. So so there absolutely were some

1027
00:53:33,640 --> 00:53:38,400
Speaker 2: women doing some poisoning, and like most cool things in history,

1028
00:53:38,400 --> 00:53:41,520
Speaker 2: they wasn't done by a single person. And we're going

1029
00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:44,000
Speaker 2: to talk the main Okay, we finished our side quest

1030
00:53:44,080 --> 00:53:46,120
Speaker 2: and we're off to the main quest. We're going to

1031
00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:48,560
Speaker 2: talk about a whole multi generational ring of women in

1032
00:53:48,600 --> 00:53:53,600
Speaker 2: seventeenth century Italy. Collectively, they've got upwards of six hundred kills,

1033
00:53:54,800 --> 00:53:58,160
Speaker 2: which might make them the most successful serial killer group

1034
00:53:58,200 --> 00:54:00,680
Speaker 2: in history. But as you can kind of pointed out

1035
00:54:00,719 --> 00:54:03,960
Speaker 2: the top of the hour, I think that murdering men

1036
00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:06,720
Speaker 2: who legally own you from whom there is no divorce

1037
00:54:07,480 --> 00:54:10,240
Speaker 2: should not be a crime, and neither should be providing

1038
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:12,840
Speaker 2: the poison. So I don't really see them as serial killers.

1039
00:54:13,440 --> 00:54:15,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, if anything, gets an act of self defense, because

1040
00:54:15,719 --> 00:54:18,520
Speaker 3: who knows what they were experiencing to to like need

1041
00:54:18,520 --> 00:54:19,239
Speaker 3: to have to do that.

1042
00:54:20,520 --> 00:54:24,319
Speaker 2: Oh we we unfortunately know, oh what they what they

1043
00:54:24,360 --> 00:54:26,319
Speaker 2: were experienced. I won't get into the details about that.

1044
00:54:26,800 --> 00:54:28,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm prepared, prepared.

1045
00:54:29,320 --> 00:54:35,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, And maddeningly, this beautiful, like multi generational group of

1046
00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:39,480
Speaker 2: women gets their complex history has been reduced to a

1047
00:54:39,560 --> 00:54:43,080
Speaker 2: legend of a single woman, which is also untrue. It's

1048
00:54:43,120 --> 00:54:46,360
Speaker 2: the era of arranged marriages seventeenth century Italy, So not

1049
00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:49,399
Speaker 2: only are women incapable of leaving unhappy marriages, they don't

1050
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:51,560
Speaker 2: even get to pick them at husbands in the first place.

1051
00:54:51,600 --> 00:54:56,440
Speaker 2: They're basically auctioned off. So your best bet was to

1052
00:54:56,520 --> 00:55:00,239
Speaker 2: be a aspiring widow and to get a sense for

1053
00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:02,320
Speaker 2: the life of married women. At the time, there was

1054
00:55:02,360 --> 00:55:04,880
Speaker 2: a best selling book from the previous century, Rules for

1055
00:55:05,040 --> 00:55:09,359
Speaker 2: Married Life which advised husbands, you must be your wife

1056
00:55:09,400 --> 00:55:12,440
Speaker 2: if she delights in standing at the window and willingly

1057
00:55:12,520 --> 00:55:15,160
Speaker 2: lends a ready ear to any dishonest young men.

1058
00:55:16,640 --> 00:55:19,480
Speaker 3: Wow, the rule book.

1059
00:55:19,719 --> 00:55:25,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, sir, what Yeah, them's the rules, Sophie.

1060
00:55:26,360 --> 00:55:30,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, k gates like forloringly or whatever out of window

1061
00:55:31,040 --> 00:55:33,880
Speaker 3: because it's the only thing that they could do and

1062
00:55:33,880 --> 00:55:34,719
Speaker 3: there wasn't any TV.

1063
00:55:35,080 --> 00:55:40,200
Speaker 1: They're like window, window, not fine door Okay, yeah.

1064
00:55:39,920 --> 00:55:42,640
Speaker 2: No, Yeah, it's just such a like you can't Yeah,

1065
00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:44,839
Speaker 2: the fact that you can't even gaze forlornly out the wind, like, oh,

1066
00:55:44,880 --> 00:55:48,440
Speaker 2: you better not be looking sad in your life, that

1067
00:55:48,520 --> 00:55:56,160
Speaker 2: I have made into a nightmare thoughts. Yeah, no, basically yeah,

1068
00:55:56,200 --> 00:55:59,160
Speaker 2: And so this is gonna be the murkiest story I've

1069
00:55:59,200 --> 00:56:01,080
Speaker 2: ever told on this show, because it's the one I've

1070
00:56:01,080 --> 00:56:04,280
Speaker 2: found the greatest variety of versions of. I'd even written

1071
00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:07,200
Speaker 2: a ton of this script before I found a history

1072
00:56:07,239 --> 00:56:12,359
Speaker 2: book that basically threw out everything else. And so I'm

1073
00:56:12,360 --> 00:56:14,160
Speaker 2: gonna do my best. But I'll say that half the

1074
00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:16,400
Speaker 2: pop retellings of the story you'll find on various websites

1075
00:56:16,440 --> 00:56:19,680
Speaker 2: are completely fucking wrong, and so mine might be completely

1076
00:56:19,719 --> 00:56:22,200
Speaker 2: fucking wrong. But again, I've read a fuck ton of

1077
00:56:22,239 --> 00:56:24,480
Speaker 2: sources around this try to piece it all together.

1078
00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:27,520
Speaker 3: I mean, essentially all of history is made up.

1079
00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:28,200
Speaker 2: Yep.

1080
00:56:28,280 --> 00:56:31,400
Speaker 3: You know, no one actually knows whatever happened, and history

1081
00:56:31,440 --> 00:56:35,160
Speaker 3: books are written by people that wanted to write them.

1082
00:56:35,200 --> 00:56:38,200
Speaker 2: If that makes sense, Yep, absolutely, And I have so

1083
00:56:38,280 --> 00:56:40,560
Speaker 2: much respect for historians who actually just like do the

1084
00:56:40,640 --> 00:56:42,760
Speaker 2: work of trying to piece together all of these fucking

1085
00:56:42,840 --> 00:56:45,520
Speaker 2: things and be like, Okay, here's why the court record

1086
00:56:45,600 --> 00:56:47,719
Speaker 2: might be biased in the following ways, and here's why,

1087
00:56:47,880 --> 00:56:51,719
Speaker 2: you know. And I'm one of these pop historians I'm

1088
00:56:51,719 --> 00:56:54,960
Speaker 2: complaining about because I'm not actually a historian. But uh,

1089
00:56:55,840 --> 00:56:58,919
Speaker 2: the story that gets passed into legend is that there's

1090
00:56:58,920 --> 00:57:03,480
Speaker 2: a woman in Italy, Julia Tufauna. She's a second generation poisoner,

1091
00:57:03,880 --> 00:57:06,560
Speaker 2: and she concocted a poison that mixed arsenic lead and

1092
00:57:06,600 --> 00:57:10,560
Speaker 2: Bella donna. It was odorless and flavorless when put into wine,

1093
00:57:10,920 --> 00:57:13,200
Speaker 2: that would kill a man with only four drops over

1094
00:57:13,239 --> 00:57:15,120
Speaker 2: the course of months. You do one drop like once

1095
00:57:15,160 --> 00:57:17,960
Speaker 2: a month or so, and it made the man appear

1096
00:57:18,040 --> 00:57:21,080
Speaker 2: to die of natural causes. She sold this poison to

1097
00:57:21,120 --> 00:57:23,760
Speaker 2: ambitious and evil women who wanted to rob their poor

1098
00:57:23,880 --> 00:57:28,720
Speaker 2: unsuspecting husbands. It was sold as Aqua tafauna, a cosmetic

1099
00:57:28,800 --> 00:57:32,400
Speaker 2: so as to not arouse suspicion, or alternatively a vial

1100
00:57:32,440 --> 00:57:35,280
Speaker 2: of holy water with Saint Nicholas on the label. Wow,

1101
00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:38,200
Speaker 2: this was a whole con Oh like, oh yeah, we'll

1102
00:57:38,200 --> 00:57:38,880
Speaker 2: get to them.

1103
00:57:38,760 --> 00:57:39,880
Speaker 3: An entire operation.

1104
00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:40,200
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1105
00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:40,760
Speaker 3: Respect.

1106
00:57:41,040 --> 00:57:44,000
Speaker 2: Juliet Tafana supposedly worked for fifty years killing those six

1107
00:57:44,040 --> 00:57:46,480
Speaker 2: hundred people before being found out and executed in sixteen

1108
00:57:46,560 --> 00:57:49,240
Speaker 2: fifty nine, which is an awkward way for her to

1109
00:57:49,240 --> 00:57:51,000
Speaker 2: have to work for fifty years because she was born

1110
00:57:51,000 --> 00:57:54,720
Speaker 2: in sixteen supposedly born in sixteen, twenty thirty nine years

1111
00:57:54,760 --> 00:57:57,720
Speaker 2: before supposed to death. Never mind such details. Fifty years,

1112
00:57:57,760 --> 00:58:00,640
Speaker 2: six hundred people, all by herself. When she died, she

1113
00:58:00,680 --> 00:58:03,480
Speaker 2: passed on her legacy to her kid. And that version

1114
00:58:03,520 --> 00:58:05,280
Speaker 2: of the story conflates a ton of people, Like I

1115
00:58:05,320 --> 00:58:07,000
Speaker 2: was saying, so, I'll try my best to get it right.

1116
00:58:07,760 --> 00:58:10,360
Speaker 2: But this isn't like the Elizabeth Batore's story. Don't worry.

1117
00:58:10,360 --> 00:58:13,280
Speaker 2: They actually did some murder, a lot of people getting poisoned,

1118
00:58:13,880 --> 00:58:16,080
Speaker 2: and the lies and the histories are around the motives

1119
00:58:16,080 --> 00:58:18,840
Speaker 2: and around who did the poisoning and the scope of

1120
00:58:18,920 --> 00:58:22,760
Speaker 2: the world they lived in. But that's where I'm going

1121
00:58:22,800 --> 00:58:25,600
Speaker 2: to cliffhanger. It nice because that's where we're going to

1122
00:58:25,680 --> 00:58:27,960
Speaker 2: leave it today. When we come back Wednesday, we're going

1123
00:58:28,000 --> 00:58:30,680
Speaker 2: to hear the true story, which is actually cooler, like

1124
00:58:30,760 --> 00:58:33,680
Speaker 2: just frankly cooler, and involves a whole underworld of magicians

1125
00:58:33,680 --> 00:58:37,680
Speaker 2: and witches and cities, which is cool, which is very cool.

1126
00:58:38,080 --> 00:58:41,840
Speaker 3: You're a pro even I'm excited about that. Even there is.

1127
00:58:44,160 --> 00:58:47,760
Speaker 1: DREI do you have any thing you'd like to plug? Uh?

1128
00:58:48,280 --> 00:58:50,880
Speaker 3: Not particularly. You can follow me on the internet if

1129
00:58:50,920 --> 00:58:53,040
Speaker 3: you want, but to be honest, I don't even post

1130
00:58:53,080 --> 00:58:56,440
Speaker 3: on there anymore. I'm very disillusioned with the act of

1131
00:58:56,520 --> 00:59:00,360
Speaker 3: posting right now and have been for a minute. But

1132
00:59:00,440 --> 00:59:02,840
Speaker 3: you know what, follow me anyway give me a little

1133
00:59:02,840 --> 00:59:04,400
Speaker 3: ego boost when I say, when I see it on

1134
00:59:04,440 --> 00:59:06,840
Speaker 3: my phone, which is sometimes all I need.

1135
00:59:07,160 --> 00:59:12,080
Speaker 1: And you you host a podcast with uh on an

1136
00:59:12,360 --> 00:59:17,960
Speaker 1: ambiguous and listeners can also catch you on on cools

1137
00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:20,960
Speaker 1: on Media's Daily Show. It could happen here like several

1138
00:59:20,960 --> 00:59:21,800
Speaker 1: times a month.

1139
00:59:21,640 --> 00:59:25,240
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, Sophie, can you just do all my fight

1140
00:59:25,280 --> 00:59:28,640
Speaker 3: now on? I mean, because I appreciate that I do

1141
00:59:28,760 --> 00:59:32,880
Speaker 3: Margarets too, what.

1142
00:59:34,720 --> 00:59:37,200
Speaker 1: H so you could uh, you can follow Margaret on

1143
00:59:37,240 --> 00:59:42,520
Speaker 1: Twitter at Magpie kill yep okay, and you can follow

1144
00:59:42,680 --> 00:59:45,320
Speaker 1: her on on Instagram at Margaret Killjoy.

1145
00:59:45,920 --> 00:59:49,040
Speaker 3: I knew there was my handles, okay, okay.

1146
00:59:49,280 --> 00:59:53,200
Speaker 1: You can follow Sharene on Instagram at shiro hero and

1147
00:59:53,200 --> 00:59:55,560
Speaker 1: you can follow Sharen on Twitter at shearer Hero six

1148
00:59:55,680 --> 00:59:56,240
Speaker 1: six six.

1149
00:59:56,480 --> 00:59:58,280
Speaker 2: Hell yeah, okay, I.

1150
00:59:58,240 --> 01:00:00,000
Speaker 1: Really I really know that. Also, Margaret, you have a

1151
01:00:00,040 --> 01:00:01,840
Speaker 1: book coming out. Correct or it is out.

1152
01:00:01,920 --> 01:00:02,560
Speaker 2: It's already out.

1153
01:00:02,840 --> 01:00:03,320
Speaker 1: It's out.

1154
01:00:03,600 --> 01:00:05,400
Speaker 2: I'm on tour for it right now.

1155
01:00:05,880 --> 01:00:06,160
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1156
01:00:06,400 --> 01:00:08,840
Speaker 3: Margaret is recording in a in a car vehicle.

1157
01:00:09,080 --> 01:00:09,640
Speaker 2: Very true.

1158
01:00:09,880 --> 01:00:16,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, dedicated yeah to to Uh you know her book

1159
01:00:16,400 --> 01:00:20,360
Speaker 1: and her podcast. Oh yeah that too, Margaret. What what

1160
01:00:20,360 --> 01:00:22,080
Speaker 1: what's your book called? And where can people find it?

1161
01:00:22,160 --> 01:00:24,919
Speaker 2: Well, it's called we Won't be Here Tomorrow because we'll

1162
01:00:24,920 --> 01:00:27,200
Speaker 2: be here Wednesday. No, I I've already made that.

1163
01:00:27,400 --> 01:00:29,120
Speaker 1: Oh my god, that was perfect though.

1164
01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:29,560
Speaker 2: Thanks.

1165
01:00:29,600 --> 01:00:30,040
Speaker 3: Pretty good.

1166
01:00:31,360 --> 01:00:33,600
Speaker 2: It's a book of short stories. If you like the

1167
01:00:33,680 --> 01:00:36,200
Speaker 2: kinds of things that I tell stories about here, whether

1168
01:00:36,240 --> 01:00:40,360
Speaker 2: it's witches or revolutionaries, you will find both in my

1169
01:00:40,560 --> 01:00:46,960
Speaker 2: book about people who feed men to mermaids or whatever. Yeah,

1170
01:00:47,000 --> 01:00:56,480
Speaker 2: and you can get from a cake Press.

1171
01:00:53,480 --> 01:01:00,440
Speaker 1: By Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production

1172
01:01:00,520 --> 01:01:03,720
Speaker 1: of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool Zone Media,

1173
01:01:03,880 --> 01:01:07,160
Speaker 1: visit our website coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out

1174
01:01:07,240 --> 01:01:10,600
Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get

1175
01:01:10,640 --> 01:01:11,440
Speaker 1: your podcasts.