Speaker 1: Good morning, Peepsen, and welcome to woke FP Daily with
Speaker 1: me your girl Danielle Moody. Pre recording as last week
Speaker 1: or this week whenever you're listening to. This was my
Speaker 1: birthday and I took a little time off to celebrate,
Speaker 1: but I'm really excited. A couple of weeks ago you
Speaker 1: all got to hear my interview with Tory Stevens from
Speaker 1: Grist and the founder of the Fixed Climate Fiction Contest,
Speaker 1: And so I've been so fortunate to be able to
Speaker 1: interview some of the authors of these climate futures, and
Speaker 1: just as a reminder, Imagine twenty two hundred is a
Speaker 1: fixed climate fiction contest recognizing stories that envisioned the next
Speaker 1: one hundred and eighty years of equitable climate progress, imagining
Speaker 1: intersectional worlds of abundance, adaptation, reform, and hope. And today
Speaker 1: I am in conversation with author A. Kema Lexis, and
Speaker 1: we are discussing his story, The Lexicographer and One Tree Island.
Speaker 1: After an oceanic rapture, a lone survivor adapts to his
Speaker 1: new reality in ways both mental and physical. I told
Speaker 1: you all probably back in twenty twenty that you know,
Speaker 1: as the world was being turned upside down by COVID,
Speaker 1: and we were in quarantine and indoors and trying to
Speaker 1: figure out what life was going to look like. It's
Speaker 1: crazy to me to believe that in a few months
Speaker 1: it will be three years right since that time, and
Speaker 1: you know, because reality had just basically started to mirror
Speaker 1: science fiction. A friend of mine suggested that I get
Speaker 1: into afrofuturism, that I kind of allow my mind to
Speaker 1: leave the present and to leave this world and to
Speaker 1: just go and explore other worlds. And I'll say that
Speaker 1: in many ways, afrofuturism, African futurism, and science fiction pretty
Speaker 1: much saved my mental health at the beginning of the pandemic.
Speaker 1: And I've devoured so many books since. All of them, however,
Speaker 1: have kind of set their worlds in a place of dystopia. Right.
Speaker 1: Sci fi has generally come from the destruction of the
Speaker 1: planet and now we're in out of space or things
Speaker 1: are so terrible now we live in a warner world
Speaker 1: because we have ruined everything. And what I love about
Speaker 1: Imagine twenty two hundreds contest is it is asking creative
Speaker 1: right to think from a place of abundance, to envision
Speaker 1: a world that isn't dealing with scarcity, but to use
Speaker 1: the climate crisis as a way to use these obstacles
Speaker 1: as opportunities to create new worlds. It's not to say
Speaker 1: that crisis won't happen, but I think that what we
Speaker 1: do with it, how we think about it, how we
Speaker 1: act on it, is the difference between coming from a
Speaker 1: scarcy new mindset and one of abundance. And so I
Speaker 1: love the idea that as we are no longer in
Speaker 1: the impending climate crisis, we are living inside of the
Speaker 1: climate crisis. For us to imagine not our impending doom,
Speaker 1: but what are some of the opportunities that can come
Speaker 1: out of the catastrophes? Where do we see ourselves? And again,
Speaker 1: I've expressed this so many times on this show and
Speaker 1: on others, that you can't dream from a place of rage.
Speaker 1: Rest is required in order for us to imagine, to dream,
Speaker 1: to go into that alternate scape of reality, and you
Speaker 1: can't do that if you're overwhelmed and overworked. And so
Speaker 1: I think that it is also really important for us
Speaker 1: to come to understand that some of our best ideas
Speaker 1: have come from a relaxed mind, have come from a
Speaker 1: walk in nature, have come from being surrounded by family
Speaker 1: and loved ones, And so what does it look like
Speaker 1: to dream of a future one hundred and eighty years
Speaker 1: from now that is full of possibility instead of panic.
Speaker 1: So coming up next my conversation with author a chem
Speaker 1: Alexis and his story The Lexicographer and One Tree Island. Friends,
Speaker 1: I'm very excited to welcome to Woke a f Daily
Speaker 1: for the very first time, a Kem Alexis, who is
Speaker 1: a short story writer and his piece became an Imagine
Speaker 1: twenty two hundred finalist. If you all remember from an
Speaker 1: initial conversation that I had back with Tory Stevens about futurism, afrofuturism,
Speaker 1: African futurism, and what it means to create a climate
Speaker 1: positive future in literature. So a Keem, I'm very excited
Speaker 1: to talk to you your piece entitled The Lexicographer and
Speaker 1: the One Tree Island. I have to tell you, I
Speaker 1: just want to give you an opportunity. I want people
Speaker 1: to read it, but I want you to give people
Speaker 1: the opportunity. I want to give you the opportunity to
Speaker 1: give an overview of of your story. So it's so
Speaker 1: beautiful and we'll dig into it. But tell me about
Speaker 1: tell me about its origins and and and the theme
Speaker 1: of the story. Well, I'm happy to be here by
Speaker 1: the ray, so thank you for that introduction. Um. Well,
Speaker 1: the theme is hope. But what happens in the story
Speaker 1: without two month too many spoilers, is that it's set
Speaker 1: in the future on a Caribbean island, let's say my
Speaker 1: Caribbean island. And what happens is after a number of
Speaker 1: years and rising sea levels, the water has eaten away
Speaker 1: the island living one tree and one boy with some animals,
Speaker 1: and these entities tend to but in the future they
Speaker 1: try to figure out a way to keep the island
Speaker 1: going along with a surprise guest happen. UM. So it's
Speaker 1: you know, it's about resilience. It's about um. It's centers
Speaker 1: black food. And I think that it was a challenge
Speaker 1: me to write and resilience hope of climate change, destruction
Speaker 1: and how we survive amidst amidst that destruction. So that
Speaker 1: is what I hope. I mean, I will I will
Speaker 1: tell you that, Um I started the story, and I mean, well,
Speaker 1: I'll talk about it at high levels because I really
Speaker 1: want people to go um and find it and read
Speaker 1: it and we will link to it. Um. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: I want to talk about the the term that you
Speaker 1: use in the story, oceanic rapture UM, because it both
Speaker 1: obviously hearkens to religious scripture around the rapture and uh
Speaker 1: and and and the and the coming back of you know,
Speaker 1: of of of Christ right and then it you know,
Speaker 1: and then we're talking about the tidal wave, this tsunami
Speaker 1: that blankets the sky and kind of and takes over
Speaker 1: um all of these Caribbean islands. And of course, you know,
Speaker 1: my heart goes to the places that we've seen in
Speaker 1: the news and in the headlines, like Pakistan and Nigeria
Speaker 1: and Puerto Rico and you know, parts of Germany and
Speaker 1: France that had been underwater. Uh that three quarters of
Speaker 1: of of the landmass in Pakistan's underwater, uh over thirty
Speaker 1: of the states and in Nigeria or underwater. So talk
Speaker 1: to me about the visualization of this oceanic rapture and
Speaker 1: and what that conjured for you and this this idea,
Speaker 1: this you know, and it goes back to I think
Speaker 1: it was my God, was this the early two thousands
Speaker 1: or late nineties, the major tsunami in in uh in Thailand, right, Um,
Speaker 1: that was that was that was that happened via underwater earthquake.
Speaker 1: So just that that imagery. Can you talk about about that? Yes,
Speaker 1: of course, thank you for you know, linking all those
Speaker 1: real life issues because it really helps with all that.
Speaker 1: What I'm going to say, I think the ocean and
Speaker 1: its attendance have been portraying in the media as very
Speaker 1: vicious and rightly so we are dealing with something that
Speaker 1: is particularly violent and can be, and we are contributing
Speaker 1: to that. On the other end. For me and this story,
Speaker 1: I'm from Trinidad, from the Caribbean, and rising sea levels
Speaker 1: is something that is real right all our island trend
Speaker 1: and Tobago, our capital city, is built on the sea,
Speaker 1: and at some point in time it's already beginning to
Speaker 1: do so the sea will one back its place right
Speaker 1: and apart from that, apart from the west contributing to
Speaker 1: most of the climate issues we have right now, it's
Speaker 1: going to affect small island developing states like ours or
Speaker 1: other developing countries, under developed countries, and we see it
Speaker 1: every day. So as we say happening back to things
Speaker 1: like religion, happening back to did they see itself is
Speaker 1: something that although we can track changes, we can do investigations,
Speaker 1: we can find understandings, it's unpredictable at times, and when
Speaker 1: we add to that unpredictable predictability and that unknowing, we
Speaker 1: are setting up ourselves for some prime failure in the future.
Speaker 1: For me as well, I think that we tend to
Speaker 1: underestimate the power of the sea has for cleaning back
Speaker 1: what exactly it owns. We don't we don't want anything
Speaker 1: if you tend to feel as we but we don't.
Speaker 1: Um So I think that for old, oceanic rapture wasn't
Speaker 1: something that was very hard for me to pick up on,
Speaker 1: and you know, I'm blowing the story. Apart from that,
Speaker 1: I think this is beautiful. I think there are a
Speaker 1: lot of things that we can use to help or
Speaker 1: understandings of climate change, how we can curb it, because
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's happening. It's not something that I
Speaker 1: think we can but h it's it's So it's interesting
Speaker 1: because I entered the competition last year and I didn't
Speaker 1: touch anything with regards to oceanic rapture. I was far
Speaker 1: from the back of my head. So this year I
Speaker 1: really decided to clamp down on something that I think
Speaker 1: schools to whom, so that is how I end up
Speaker 1: ended up coming up with this and to go from there,
Speaker 1: I guess, you know, one of the other the other
Speaker 1: kind of elements. There were so many, um and it's
Speaker 1: and it's so beautifully visual. Your story is the idea
Speaker 1: of this two gendered or no gendered space and the
Speaker 1: idea that over time that you know, the boy is
Speaker 1: said to be developing little gills on his cheeks, and
Speaker 1: as the cities that have been destroyed, they're being rebuilt
Speaker 1: by AI intelligence, by robots. And you talk about in
Speaker 1: the in the story about the adaptability of humans and animals, right,
Speaker 1: and the and the ability to to to the ability
Speaker 1: that humans and animals have to adapt and that robots
Speaker 1: do not. So while they are rebuilding right and they
Speaker 1: can do the construction. Um, the adaptability piece speak to
Speaker 1: that because again, we are at a time when it's
Speaker 1: like I feel part in the real world that we
Speaker 1: are living, both in the future and the president at
Speaker 1: the same time when you're seeing technology and the reliance
Speaker 1: that we have on technology and the development of AI
Speaker 1: and you know, and coding and all of these things
Speaker 1: but that are still embodying the same type of systemic racism,
Speaker 1: the same type of ignorance. UM. And so I thought
Speaker 1: that this idea of why humans and animals still matter right, um,
Speaker 1: that you presented was just so powerful. So talk talk
Speaker 1: to me about a about that. Well, you know, discussions
Speaker 1: are wrong, things like climate, climate change, or any other
Speaker 1: drastic issues that make our future look very dystopian. We
Speaker 1: tend to depend on technology, look to technology, absorb technology
Speaker 1: as the answer, and that's fine, there's nothing wrong with that.
Speaker 1: I mean, we can't move ahead without technology. However, in
Speaker 1: doing so, eroding the importance of humanism and animalism is
Speaker 1: contra productive. And in this story, especially in the seame
Speaker 1: of hope, hope is a word that is consider kind
Speaker 1: of like intangible area and wishful in that way, and
Speaker 1: fiction tends to put words to work, and they are
Speaker 1: bare lowing for like hope as praxis, How can hope
Speaker 1: become tangible reality? In doing so, centering the human and
Speaker 1: animal connect is important. In fact, I think it is
Speaker 1: top priority. And apart from that, centering humans that are
Speaker 1: minorities are should be at the center more particularly because
Speaker 1: these are the people who are mostly affected by these
Speaker 1: changes in the world. So when we think about and
Speaker 1: talk about climate change, technology is important. But I couldn't
Speaker 1: see myself writing something where te technology was the answer
Speaker 1: alone in this story. I was going to say no,
Speaker 1: because oftentimes in in futurism, in sci fi, technology is
Speaker 1: the hero, right The robots are the robots are are
Speaker 1: are are the heroes of the story, and humans are
Speaker 1: the ones are I looked at as the destroyers and
Speaker 1: your story was the complete opposite. I wanted to turn
Speaker 1: that on his head because I am very wary. Although
Speaker 1: I have a letter behind me, I am very wary
Speaker 1: when it comes to to um AI and robots and
Speaker 1: what we think that they're capable of or incapable of,
Speaker 1: you know, UM as you move ahead into the future,
Speaker 1: especially when it comes to um intersectionality, etc. I don't
Speaker 1: think they are I'm obviously I'm not an expert in that,
Speaker 1: but I don't think there's an inherent programming that we
Speaker 1: could come up with to help robots um just combat
Speaker 1: the things that we have to combat in the right
Speaker 1: um So turning that on its head was very important
Speaker 1: to me, especially from somebody from the Caribbean, where you know,
Speaker 1: very last to be told or anything, and the fools
Speaker 1: to be affected. Yep, right, And I remembering the story
Speaker 1: near to the end, like I kind of need it
Speaker 1: seem your robots themselves seem seemed like danger. Yes, they
Speaker 1: see they they see you know, the the you know
Speaker 1: as as again, folks, you you must read, you must
Speaker 1: read the short story. Um. But as the ship comes,
Speaker 1: you know, to potentially rescue. Right, that's this idea. You've
Speaker 1: been living on this one you know, this one tree
Speaker 1: island surrounded by a barrier reef and you know, and
Speaker 1: and you've been there, so you must you must want
Speaker 1: to get back to quote unquote civilization. Um. And and
Speaker 1: then recognizing that the robots and the ship and another
Speaker 1: themselves is some weird enslavement and loop thing that is
Speaker 1: that has happened, that has that has the people that
Speaker 1: have decided to go backwards right, to go back to
Speaker 1: this place instead of preserved, um what is present to
Speaker 1: them and what they know. I thought that that was
Speaker 1: really powerful as well a can because I was like,
Speaker 1: my god, you know, yes, this civilization is being rebuilt,
Speaker 1: but the questions being asked, do you even know what
Speaker 1: kind of food? They have? Do you even know if
Speaker 1: you what language they speak? Do you even know who
Speaker 1: is doing who is relieving? These things? Are they? Um?
Speaker 1: Similar to to um colonialization. They're taking you to where
Speaker 1: to what and why? And when you get there, what
Speaker 1: are the provisions for you? You know? And I think
Speaker 1: that's very important as we think about the future. And
Speaker 1: you can't although the theme was hope, you can't get
Speaker 1: to hope without going through catastrophe. And in the midst
Speaker 1: of catastrophe, how do you earnmore yourself from that while
Speaker 1: we're keeping your identity right and advocating for yourself in
Speaker 1: the process. And yeah, that was that is you don't know.
Speaker 1: I intentionally did not include any extract information on New
Speaker 1: corn Land, which I intentionally called them that, because we
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't I don't think we will know
Speaker 1: what that means for us. And obviously New corn Land
Speaker 1: is alluding to one place in the West. However, the West.
Speaker 1: Strangely enough, they regulate what is developed on underdeveloped country
Speaker 1: and they also contribute to keeping those countries underdeveloped or developing.
Speaker 1: So um, those things that are really important to me
Speaker 1: are really important to me when I wrote this story,
Speaker 1: because we really can't put our finger on what would
Speaker 1: happen to our heritage and our culture when climate crisis increases,
Speaker 1: and it is increasing every day it is. It is
Speaker 1: at a hight right now, it's every day, and there
Speaker 1: are people who are looking steadfastly in mac round micro
Speaker 1: ways to help curb this using technology. Of course, I
Speaker 1: have a friend right now, tintagrapher make up to you
Speaker 1: who's doing her masters and crowdsourcing as a means of
Speaker 1: flood managed flood risk management. And that's something that we
Speaker 1: experience here at an extreme extreme cost. A little bit
Speaker 1: of rainwall fall and places would flood crazy, right And
Speaker 1: that's because the sea is doing what the sea does,
Speaker 1: the weather is doing what the weather does, and with
Speaker 1: rising global temperatures, et cetera and intensified weather events, you
Speaker 1: can't It's very little we could do this point to
Speaker 1: help progress that. So I think we need to look
Speaker 1: at what we as human beings are capable of doing
Speaker 1: without technology in ensuring that we we meaning we our ancestors,
Speaker 1: their ancestors. What do we hold when we move forward
Speaker 1: into the future, and what can we ensure we don't
Speaker 1: lose as a result of that. That was important to me,
Speaker 1: especially near the end of the story. How do you
Speaker 1: account the people of Trinidad and Tobago think about climate
Speaker 1: change and the climate crisis, because you know, in the US, right,
Speaker 1: we're still trying to convince people that climate change is real, right,
Speaker 1: that it's happening, and regards regardless of of once in
Speaker 1: essentially three hurricanes and tornadoes and fire seasons that are
Speaker 1: happening every year, but they're once in a century, regardless
Speaker 1: of you know, consistent devastation and droughts, and how it
Speaker 1: is affecting our food chain and our supplies and all
Speaker 1: of these things. It is as if you know, the
Speaker 1: ignorance is just is a cancer? Is a cancer on
Speaker 1: this country? And so is there this feeling that there
Speaker 1: is a similar divide or because it is an island
Speaker 1: that is you know, at the will, at the mercy,
Speaker 1: let's say, of the environment, is that something that is
Speaker 1: just You don't need to convince people, they know, right,
Speaker 1: that's a good question. And although I can't speak for everybody,
Speaker 1: what I would see is that, well, I think that
Speaker 1: maybe this is similar similar a similar sentiment in America.
Speaker 1: You could tell me, but people tend to get caught
Speaker 1: up in the right now things. I need a job
Speaker 1: right now. We need money right now in education right now.
Speaker 1: Inflation is really high right now. There are you know,
Speaker 1: huge other garments of issues that are happening right now,
Speaker 1: and they could touch, and they could see and they
Speaker 1: could feel. With climate change policymakers and those who dedicate
Speaker 1: their lives to it, they have to make the argument
Speaker 1: that this thing that you can't see is happening. And
Speaker 1: although you can't see it, and I have to try
Speaker 1: to make it tangible for you, you need to understand
Speaker 1: that it is going to affect your livelihood and your
Speaker 1: children's livelihoods and the livelihood of your small island state.
Speaker 1: That is very hard to do. And in my country,
Speaker 1: I mean they are initiatives, you know, small pockets of initiatives,
Speaker 1: say and there. I don't think there is a large initiative.
Speaker 1: I don't think that the government necessarily successive previous governments
Speaker 1: have taken climate change off the table and put it
Speaker 1: into the faces of the population as it needs to be.
Speaker 1: I do know that me and Martley, the Prime Minister Barbados,
Speaker 1: I think is the I don't I don't want to
Speaker 1: say it only but she is the pre eminent figure
Speaker 1: when we think about Cribin and climate change. She is African,
Speaker 1: right she I think honeyame comes up very easily. However,
Speaker 1: that isn't enough. It isn't enough, and it will never
Speaker 1: be enough. And because climate change is not a election
Speaker 1: winning topic, right, it tends to be sidelined. So I
Speaker 1: don't think people are that concerned now, people being obviously
Speaker 1: I see who I think is the maturity. There are
Speaker 1: people who are very concerned. There are people who are
Speaker 1: trying their best. But I don't think it's very hard,
Speaker 1: as you say to UM, put this in front of
Speaker 1: people and explain, especially because and this goes back to fiction, UM,
Speaker 1: thinking about climate fiction, for futurism, science fiction, a lot
Speaker 1: of it is dyscopion, right, A lot of it is dyscopion.
Speaker 1: A lot of it involves catastrophe and the after effects
Speaker 1: of catastrophe. People don't like to think about depressing, UM,
Speaker 1: things that will involve, you know, the death of humanity
Speaker 1: as we know it. Subject. You know, if I were
Speaker 1: to campaign, come to campaign on that, I feel as
Speaker 1: those people would be like, let's not let's not going in, right,
Speaker 1: And they tend to have avoid talking of talking, acknowledging, planning, spending,
Speaker 1: political time on it because they naturally don't want to
Speaker 1: activate those negative, depressing emotional domains. So by injecting hope
Speaker 1: into the narrative, whether it be fictional or real, I
Speaker 1: think you can get people to pay attention. So in saying, yes,
Speaker 1: these things may likely happen, but there is a way
Speaker 1: that if they do happen, we can get out of it.
Speaker 1: Or if they do happen, there is a way that
Speaker 1: our impact won't be as bad as it could be.
Speaker 1: I think it's very important to get people on board
Speaker 1: through hope in a more tangible way. I think fiction
Speaker 1: is a really good way to do that, apart from
Speaker 1: obviously political willpower, and political willpower is something that's scarce,
Speaker 1: scarce in that that thing. And there are people who
Speaker 1: just obviously reject anything, um, they think doesn't align with
Speaker 1: their agenda. M h you know, people who live for themselves.
Speaker 1: I live for me, and I'm gonna die soon, so
Speaker 1: I don't care about that. I don't think that we
Speaker 1: can change their mind. Um. You know, however, it is dispiriting,
Speaker 1: I would say, especially because um, you know, places like
Speaker 1: America do contribute to a large of the climate issues
Speaker 1: that when you look at the political How do you
Speaker 1: even describe that? I don't know. I mean I try
Speaker 1: every day on this show to try and figure out
Speaker 1: how to describe it. I don't know how. I don't know. Wow,
Speaker 1: I don't know how you describe it. You will try
Speaker 1: to pick all the glimmers of hope where you can,
Speaker 1: and you know, hope that those in power take some
Speaker 1: steps to help the situation. But it's it's hard because
Speaker 1: those us any creep and we can't do it alone.
Speaker 1: We really can't. Yeah, maybe we really can't. So yes,
Speaker 1: I just I you know, I just want to say,
Speaker 1: you know, as as as we close, I just I
Speaker 1: appreciated the story so much because as people who listen
Speaker 1: to Woke a f on a regular basis, no, I
Speaker 1: amy of little hope, right, um, and yet I and
Speaker 1: and and yet I am I continue to you know,
Speaker 1: rail against the powers that be because I believe that
Speaker 1: people have more power than they know. And what I
Speaker 1: and what I yeah, and what I loved about your
Speaker 1: story was just you know, again it was it conjured
Speaker 1: so much imagery for me, the ship that was supposedly
Speaker 1: coming to rescue and then I'm thinking about the slave ships,
Speaker 1: and I'm thinking about you know, the and what people were.
Speaker 1: They knew obviously because they're marching in captivity, chained, UM,
Speaker 1: that what was meeting them on the other side was
Speaker 1: surely not what they were what they were being forced
Speaker 1: to leave. However, this this your ship, you know, was
Speaker 1: saying oh, yeah, come, you know, come on. But then
Speaker 1: you you're seeing this picture of what is on there
Speaker 1: and you're like, I don't want to live on loop.
Speaker 1: I want you know, I want to be a part
Speaker 1: of a rebuild, um that is essentially for us and
Speaker 1: by us, right, Um, And this holding onto language. The
Speaker 1: last question that I have for you, um is one
Speaker 1: I don't even know if there is an answer for
Speaker 1: but I but it it came to my mind for you, Um,
Speaker 1: a cam what is the difference between hope and faith?
Speaker 1: You had said that hope you must go through catastrophe
Speaker 1: in order to have and so I'm curious for you
Speaker 1: if what the difference is the difference between hope and faith?
Speaker 1: You have faith in that what you hope for comes true. UM.
Speaker 1: I think faith is hope. You hope for something, you
Speaker 1: have faith in that something. So I think hope is
Speaker 1: sort of the sorry. Faith is the vehicle for hope
Speaker 1: to get from one place to the other. So we're
Speaker 1: here right now, it's twenty twenty two, and we have
Speaker 1: some faith in that what we hope for turns out
Speaker 1: to be what is realized. So I think that's how
Speaker 1: I would I would say the difference between hope and faith,
Speaker 1: it's they worked together, they're friends, they're friend um. Um yeah,
Speaker 1: I just again, um akam the story friends listening uh
Speaker 1: is the is the lexicographer and one Tree Island. Um.
Speaker 1: We will put a link to it in the show
Speaker 1: notes so that you can sit back and either listen
Speaker 1: to it or read it. It was an absolute pleasure,
Speaker 1: um to to read. So akam, Alexis, thank you so
Speaker 1: much for joining WOKA. I appreciate you. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1: Thank you. That is it for me today, dear friends
Speaker 1: on Woke app as always, power to the people and
Speaker 1: to all the people. Power, get woke and stay woke
Speaker 1: as fuck.