WEBVTT - Obstacles as Opportunities 0:00:11.800 --> 0:00:14.640 Good morning, Peepsen, and welcome to woke FP Daily with 0:00:14.720 --> 0:00:20.040 me your girl Danielle Moody. Pre recording as last week 0:00:20.120 --> 0:00:22.200 or this week whenever you're listening to. This was my 0:00:22.280 --> 0:00:25.360 birthday and I took a little time off to celebrate, 0:00:25.400 --> 0:00:29.480 but I'm really excited. A couple of weeks ago you 0:00:29.560 --> 0:00:33.080 all got to hear my interview with Tory Stevens from 0:00:33.360 --> 0:00:38.640 Grist and the founder of the Fixed Climate Fiction Contest, 0:00:39.320 --> 0:00:42.680 And so I've been so fortunate to be able to 0:00:42.760 --> 0:00:47.400 interview some of the authors of these climate futures, and 0:00:48.360 --> 0:00:51.839 just as a reminder, Imagine twenty two hundred is a 0:00:51.880 --> 0:00:57.440 fixed climate fiction contest recognizing stories that envisioned the next 0:00:57.480 --> 0:01:02.200 one hundred and eighty years of equitable climate progress, imagining 0:01:02.280 --> 0:01:09.160 intersectional worlds of abundance, adaptation, reform, and hope. And today 0:01:09.319 --> 0:01:13.880 I am in conversation with author A. Kema Lexis, and 0:01:14.360 --> 0:01:19.959 we are discussing his story, The Lexicographer and One Tree Island. 0:01:20.680 --> 0:01:25.000 After an oceanic rapture, a lone survivor adapts to his 0:01:25.120 --> 0:01:29.880 new reality in ways both mental and physical. I told 0:01:29.920 --> 0:01:34.240 you all probably back in twenty twenty that you know, 0:01:34.280 --> 0:01:38.759 as the world was being turned upside down by COVID, 0:01:39.480 --> 0:01:44.200 and we were in quarantine and indoors and trying to 0:01:44.240 --> 0:01:47.440 figure out what life was going to look like. It's 0:01:47.440 --> 0:01:50.280 crazy to me to believe that in a few months 0:01:50.280 --> 0:01:54.720 it will be three years right since that time, and 0:01:55.280 --> 0:01:59.800 you know, because reality had just basically started to mirror 0:02:00.040 --> 0:02:03.800 science fiction. A friend of mine suggested that I get 0:02:03.840 --> 0:02:07.760 into afrofuturism, that I kind of allow my mind to 0:02:07.880 --> 0:02:10.600 leave the present and to leave this world and to 0:02:10.760 --> 0:02:14.760 just go and explore other worlds. And I'll say that 0:02:14.840 --> 0:02:20.959 in many ways, afrofuturism, African futurism, and science fiction pretty 0:02:21.040 --> 0:02:25.120 much saved my mental health at the beginning of the pandemic. 0:02:25.240 --> 0:02:30.520 And I've devoured so many books since. All of them, however, 0:02:31.360 --> 0:02:36.880 have kind of set their worlds in a place of dystopia. Right. 0:02:37.680 --> 0:02:41.440 Sci fi has generally come from the destruction of the 0:02:41.480 --> 0:02:44.280 planet and now we're in out of space or things 0:02:44.280 --> 0:02:46.640 are so terrible now we live in a warner world 0:02:46.680 --> 0:02:52.400 because we have ruined everything. And what I love about 0:02:52.800 --> 0:02:59.640 Imagine twenty two hundreds contest is it is asking creative 0:02:59.760 --> 0:03:04.920 right to think from a place of abundance, to envision 0:03:05.440 --> 0:03:12.320 a world that isn't dealing with scarcity, but to use 0:03:12.680 --> 0:03:19.040 the climate crisis as a way to use these obstacles 0:03:19.040 --> 0:03:23.760 as opportunities to create new worlds. It's not to say 0:03:23.800 --> 0:03:26.280 that crisis won't happen, but I think that what we 0:03:26.440 --> 0:03:29.680 do with it, how we think about it, how we 0:03:29.720 --> 0:03:33.080 act on it, is the difference between coming from a 0:03:33.120 --> 0:03:36.160 scarcy new mindset and one of abundance. And so I 0:03:36.280 --> 0:03:39.040 love the idea that as we are no longer in 0:03:39.080 --> 0:03:42.400 the impending climate crisis, we are living inside of the 0:03:42.440 --> 0:03:47.120 climate crisis. For us to imagine not our impending doom, 0:03:47.840 --> 0:03:50.320 but what are some of the opportunities that can come 0:03:50.360 --> 0:03:55.000 out of the catastrophes? Where do we see ourselves? And again, 0:03:55.680 --> 0:03:58.360 I've expressed this so many times on this show and 0:03:58.400 --> 0:04:03.400 on others, that you can't dream from a place of rage. 0:04:03.680 --> 0:04:08.040 Rest is required in order for us to imagine, to dream, 0:04:08.120 --> 0:04:13.200 to go into that alternate scape of reality, and you 0:04:13.280 --> 0:04:17.680 can't do that if you're overwhelmed and overworked. And so 0:04:17.720 --> 0:04:20.200 I think that it is also really important for us 0:04:20.279 --> 0:04:24.360 to come to understand that some of our best ideas 0:04:24.440 --> 0:04:27.039 have come from a relaxed mind, have come from a 0:04:27.080 --> 0:04:30.839 walk in nature, have come from being surrounded by family 0:04:30.920 --> 0:04:34.120 and loved ones, And so what does it look like 0:04:34.600 --> 0:04:38.320 to dream of a future one hundred and eighty years 0:04:38.400 --> 0:04:42.880 from now that is full of possibility instead of panic. 0:04:43.360 --> 0:04:49.280 So coming up next my conversation with author a chem 0:04:49.520 --> 0:04:58.320 Alexis and his story The Lexicographer and One Tree Island. Friends, 0:04:58.360 --> 0:05:01.279 I'm very excited to welcome to Woke a f Daily 0:05:01.440 --> 0:05:05.520 for the very first time, a Kem Alexis, who is 0:05:06.360 --> 0:05:12.280 a short story writer and his piece became an Imagine 0:05:12.360 --> 0:05:16.200 twenty two hundred finalist. If you all remember from an 0:05:16.240 --> 0:05:23.839 initial conversation that I had back with Tory Stevens about futurism, afrofuturism, 0:05:23.960 --> 0:05:28.200 African futurism, and what it means to create a climate 0:05:28.360 --> 0:05:34.240 positive future in literature. So a Keem, I'm very excited 0:05:34.279 --> 0:05:40.839 to talk to you your piece entitled The Lexicographer and 0:05:40.960 --> 0:05:44.599 the One Tree Island. I have to tell you, I 0:05:44.640 --> 0:05:46.800 just want to give you an opportunity. I want people 0:05:46.839 --> 0:05:48.400 to read it, but I want you to give people 0:05:48.440 --> 0:05:51.039 the opportunity. I want to give you the opportunity to 0:05:51.160 --> 0:05:56.120 give an overview of of your story. So it's so 0:05:56.200 --> 0:06:00.440 beautiful and we'll dig into it. But tell me about 0:06:00.520 --> 0:06:04.400 tell me about its origins and and and the theme 0:06:04.480 --> 0:06:09.160 of the story. Well, I'm happy to be here by 0:06:09.200 --> 0:06:12.520 the ray, so thank you for that introduction. Um. Well, 0:06:12.520 --> 0:06:16.560 the theme is hope. But what happens in the story 0:06:16.680 --> 0:06:19.680 without two month too many spoilers, is that it's set 0:06:19.680 --> 0:06:22.839 in the future on a Caribbean island, let's say my 0:06:22.880 --> 0:06:27.360 Caribbean island. And what happens is after a number of 0:06:27.440 --> 0:06:31.679 years and rising sea levels, the water has eaten away 0:06:31.680 --> 0:06:36.520 the island living one tree and one boy with some animals, 0:06:37.279 --> 0:06:42.240 and these entities tend to but in the future they 0:06:42.360 --> 0:06:44.800 try to figure out a way to keep the island 0:06:46.760 --> 0:06:53.240 going along with a surprise guest happen. UM. So it's 0:06:53.279 --> 0:06:59.520 you know, it's about resilience. It's about um. It's centers 0:07:00.560 --> 0:07:05.279 black food. And I think that it was a challenge 0:07:05.360 --> 0:07:10.760 me to write and resilience hope of climate change, destruction 0:07:11.000 --> 0:07:16.200 and how we survive amidst amidst that destruction. So that 0:07:16.360 --> 0:07:21.520 is what I hope. I mean, I will I will 0:07:21.560 --> 0:07:25.720 tell you that, Um I started the story, and I mean, well, 0:07:25.960 --> 0:07:28.360 I'll talk about it at high levels because I really 0:07:28.400 --> 0:07:31.480 want people to go um and find it and read 0:07:31.480 --> 0:07:34.080 it and we will link to it. Um. Yeah, but 0:07:34.840 --> 0:07:37.960 I want to talk about the the term that you 0:07:38.160 --> 0:07:43.680 use in the story, oceanic rapture UM, because it both 0:07:43.800 --> 0:07:49.840 obviously hearkens to religious scripture around the rapture and uh 0:07:49.880 --> 0:07:53.400 and and and the and the coming back of you know, 0:07:53.720 --> 0:07:57.880 of of of Christ right and then it you know, 0:07:58.240 --> 0:08:02.200 and then we're talking about the tidal wave, this tsunami 0:08:02.640 --> 0:08:06.119 that blankets the sky and kind of and takes over 0:08:06.880 --> 0:08:10.240 um all of these Caribbean islands. And of course, you know, 0:08:10.680 --> 0:08:14.480 my heart goes to the places that we've seen in 0:08:14.520 --> 0:08:18.560 the news and in the headlines, like Pakistan and Nigeria 0:08:18.840 --> 0:08:22.840 and Puerto Rico and you know, parts of Germany and 0:08:22.960 --> 0:08:28.360 France that had been underwater. Uh that three quarters of 0:08:28.360 --> 0:08:33.319 of of the landmass in Pakistan's underwater, uh over thirty 0:08:33.480 --> 0:08:38.400 of the states and in Nigeria or underwater. So talk 0:08:38.440 --> 0:08:43.600 to me about the visualization of this oceanic rapture and 0:08:43.600 --> 0:08:46.560 and what that conjured for you and this this idea, 0:08:46.679 --> 0:08:49.360 this you know, and it goes back to I think 0:08:49.360 --> 0:08:52.360 it was my God, was this the early two thousands 0:08:52.480 --> 0:08:58.960 or late nineties, the major tsunami in in uh in Thailand, right, Um, 0:08:59.000 --> 0:09:04.119 that was that was that was that happened via underwater earthquake. 0:09:05.559 --> 0:09:09.960 So just that that imagery. Can you talk about about that? Yes, 0:09:10.080 --> 0:09:15.320 of course, thank you for you know, linking all those 0:09:15.640 --> 0:09:19.000 real life issues because it really helps with all that. 0:09:19.040 --> 0:09:23.960 What I'm going to say, I think the ocean and 0:09:24.840 --> 0:09:29.560 its attendance have been portraying in the media as very 0:09:29.679 --> 0:09:34.959 vicious and rightly so we are dealing with something that 0:09:35.120 --> 0:09:43.640 is particularly violent and can be, and we are contributing 0:09:43.640 --> 0:09:47.880 to that. On the other end. For me and this story, 0:09:48.280 --> 0:09:52.000 I'm from Trinidad, from the Caribbean, and rising sea levels 0:09:52.679 --> 0:09:56.280 is something that is real right all our island trend 0:09:56.400 --> 0:10:01.880 and Tobago, our capital city, is built on the sea, 0:10:02.240 --> 0:10:05.800 and at some point in time it's already beginning to 0:10:05.800 --> 0:10:09.439 do so the sea will one back its place right 0:10:10.160 --> 0:10:14.560 and apart from that, apart from the west contributing to 0:10:17.040 --> 0:10:20.000 most of the climate issues we have right now, it's 0:10:20.040 --> 0:10:24.720 going to affect small island developing states like ours or 0:10:24.720 --> 0:10:27.760 other developing countries, under developed countries, and we see it 0:10:27.800 --> 0:10:32.960 every day. So as we say happening back to things 0:10:32.960 --> 0:10:38.040 like religion, happening back to did they see itself is 0:10:38.080 --> 0:10:44.040 something that although we can track changes, we can do investigations, 0:10:44.120 --> 0:10:48.440 we can find understandings, it's unpredictable at times, and when 0:10:48.520 --> 0:10:53.800 we add to that unpredictable predictability and that unknowing, we 0:10:53.840 --> 0:10:59.080 are setting up ourselves for some prime failure in the future. 0:11:00.120 --> 0:11:03.640 For me as well, I think that we tend to 0:11:03.720 --> 0:11:08.160 underestimate the power of the sea has for cleaning back 0:11:08.280 --> 0:11:11.160 what exactly it owns. We don't we don't want anything 0:11:12.240 --> 0:11:14.120 if you tend to feel as we but we don't. 0:11:15.080 --> 0:11:19.240 Um So I think that for old, oceanic rapture wasn't 0:11:19.280 --> 0:11:21.679 something that was very hard for me to pick up on, 0:11:22.240 --> 0:11:26.120 and you know, I'm blowing the story. Apart from that, 0:11:26.160 --> 0:11:28.160 I think this is beautiful. I think there are a 0:11:28.200 --> 0:11:32.079 lot of things that we can use to help or 0:11:32.200 --> 0:11:36.400 understandings of climate change, how we can curb it, because 0:11:36.440 --> 0:11:39.760 I mean, it's it's happening. It's not something that I 0:11:39.800 --> 0:11:46.640 think we can but h it's it's So it's interesting 0:11:46.679 --> 0:11:52.080 because I entered the competition last year and I didn't 0:11:52.080 --> 0:11:55.839 touch anything with regards to oceanic rapture. I was far 0:11:55.960 --> 0:11:59.280 from the back of my head. So this year I 0:11:59.320 --> 0:12:03.360 really decided to clamp down on something that I think 0:12:03.480 --> 0:12:07.560 schools to whom, so that is how I end up 0:12:07.679 --> 0:12:12.319 ended up coming up with this and to go from there, 0:12:12.320 --> 0:12:16.880 I guess, you know, one of the other the other 0:12:17.000 --> 0:12:20.560 kind of elements. There were so many, um and it's 0:12:20.559 --> 0:12:25.920 and it's so beautifully visual. Your story is the idea 0:12:26.040 --> 0:12:33.800 of this two gendered or no gendered space and the 0:12:33.880 --> 0:12:39.880 idea that over time that you know, the boy is 0:12:40.600 --> 0:12:44.920 said to be developing little gills on his cheeks, and 0:12:45.080 --> 0:12:49.119 as the cities that have been destroyed, they're being rebuilt 0:12:49.360 --> 0:12:54.200 by AI intelligence, by robots. And you talk about in 0:12:54.240 --> 0:13:00.240 the in the story about the adaptability of humans and animals, right, 0:13:00.840 --> 0:13:06.280 and the and the ability to to to the ability 0:13:06.360 --> 0:13:09.160 that humans and animals have to adapt and that robots 0:13:09.160 --> 0:13:12.839 do not. So while they are rebuilding right and they 0:13:12.840 --> 0:13:18.240 can do the construction. Um, the adaptability piece speak to 0:13:18.440 --> 0:13:22.600 that because again, we are at a time when it's 0:13:22.640 --> 0:13:25.520 like I feel part in the real world that we 0:13:25.559 --> 0:13:27.839 are living, both in the future and the president at 0:13:27.840 --> 0:13:32.880 the same time when you're seeing technology and the reliance 0:13:32.960 --> 0:13:36.880 that we have on technology and the development of AI 0:13:37.040 --> 0:13:39.920 and you know, and coding and all of these things 0:13:40.000 --> 0:13:44.760 but that are still embodying the same type of systemic racism, 0:13:44.840 --> 0:13:48.880 the same type of ignorance. UM. And so I thought 0:13:48.920 --> 0:13:54.559 that this idea of why humans and animals still matter right, um, 0:13:55.040 --> 0:13:59.040 that you presented was just so powerful. So talk talk 0:13:59.040 --> 0:14:04.720 to me about a about that. Well, you know, discussions 0:14:04.720 --> 0:14:07.400 are wrong, things like climate, climate change, or any other 0:14:09.400 --> 0:14:13.000 drastic issues that make our future look very dystopian. We 0:14:13.120 --> 0:14:17.319 tend to depend on technology, look to technology, absorb technology 0:14:17.400 --> 0:14:20.040 as the answer, and that's fine, there's nothing wrong with that. 0:14:20.160 --> 0:14:23.920 I mean, we can't move ahead without technology. However, in 0:14:24.000 --> 0:14:31.000 doing so, eroding the importance of humanism and animalism is 0:14:31.240 --> 0:14:37.200 contra productive. And in this story, especially in the seame 0:14:37.240 --> 0:14:41.560 of hope, hope is a word that is consider kind 0:14:41.600 --> 0:14:45.720 of like intangible area and wishful in that way, and 0:14:46.000 --> 0:14:49.480 fiction tends to put words to work, and they are 0:14:49.520 --> 0:14:53.200 bare lowing for like hope as praxis, How can hope 0:14:53.200 --> 0:14:59.240 become tangible reality? In doing so, centering the human and 0:14:59.320 --> 0:15:02.680 animal connect is important. In fact, I think it is 0:15:03.080 --> 0:15:08.320 top priority. And apart from that, centering humans that are 0:15:08.400 --> 0:15:13.920 minorities are should be at the center more particularly because 0:15:14.040 --> 0:15:18.200 these are the people who are mostly affected by these 0:15:18.280 --> 0:15:21.240 changes in the world. So when we think about and 0:15:21.280 --> 0:15:27.800 talk about climate change, technology is important. But I couldn't 0:15:27.800 --> 0:15:31.240 see myself writing something where te technology was the answer 0:15:31.320 --> 0:15:36.720 alone in this story. I was going to say no, 0:15:36.840 --> 0:15:42.040 because oftentimes in in futurism, in sci fi, technology is 0:15:42.040 --> 0:15:46.320 the hero, right The robots are the robots are are 0:15:46.480 --> 0:15:50.400 are are the heroes of the story, and humans are 0:15:50.400 --> 0:15:53.520 the ones are I looked at as the destroyers and 0:15:53.720 --> 0:15:57.800 your story was the complete opposite. I wanted to turn 0:15:57.840 --> 0:16:01.240 that on his head because I am very wary. Although 0:16:01.240 --> 0:16:04.680 I have a letter behind me, I am very wary 0:16:05.800 --> 0:16:11.000 when it comes to to um AI and robots and 0:16:11.160 --> 0:16:13.960 what we think that they're capable of or incapable of, 0:16:15.240 --> 0:16:17.560 you know, UM as you move ahead into the future, 0:16:18.400 --> 0:16:25.680 especially when it comes to um intersectionality, etc. I don't 0:16:25.720 --> 0:16:28.920 think they are I'm obviously I'm not an expert in that, 0:16:29.360 --> 0:16:34.320 but I don't think there's an inherent programming that we 0:16:34.360 --> 0:16:44.120 could come up with to help robots um just combat 0:16:44.240 --> 0:16:48.720 the things that we have to combat in the right 0:16:49.560 --> 0:16:53.440 um So turning that on its head was very important 0:16:53.440 --> 0:16:57.800 to me, especially from somebody from the Caribbean, where you know, 0:16:58.160 --> 0:17:03.280 very last to be told or anything, and the fools 0:17:03.400 --> 0:17:10.480 to be affected. Yep, right, And I remembering the story 0:17:10.960 --> 0:17:12.399 near to the end, like I kind of need it 0:17:12.400 --> 0:17:18.760 seem your robots themselves seem seemed like danger. Yes, they 0:17:18.800 --> 0:17:21.639 see they they see you know, the the you know 0:17:21.760 --> 0:17:28.240 as as again, folks, you you must read, you must 0:17:28.320 --> 0:17:33.720 read the short story. Um. But as the ship comes, 0:17:33.960 --> 0:17:38.720 you know, to potentially rescue. Right, that's this idea. You've 0:17:38.960 --> 0:17:42.120 been living on this one you know, this one tree 0:17:42.160 --> 0:17:45.359 island surrounded by a barrier reef and you know, and 0:17:45.560 --> 0:17:47.640 and you've been there, so you must you must want 0:17:47.680 --> 0:17:52.040 to get back to quote unquote civilization. Um. And and 0:17:52.080 --> 0:17:55.600 then recognizing that the robots and the ship and another 0:17:55.760 --> 0:18:01.000 themselves is some weird enslavement and loop thing that is 0:18:01.040 --> 0:18:03.840 that has happened, that has that has the people that 0:18:03.880 --> 0:18:07.720 have decided to go backwards right, to go back to 0:18:07.800 --> 0:18:11.720 this place instead of preserved, um what is present to 0:18:11.760 --> 0:18:14.159 them and what they know. I thought that that was 0:18:14.200 --> 0:18:17.520 really powerful as well a can because I was like, 0:18:17.640 --> 0:18:23.119 my god, you know, yes, this civilization is being rebuilt, 0:18:23.160 --> 0:18:25.720 but the questions being asked, do you even know what 0:18:25.800 --> 0:18:28.240 kind of food? They have? Do you even know if 0:18:28.280 --> 0:18:31.320 you what language they speak? Do you even know who 0:18:31.400 --> 0:18:34.520 is doing who is relieving? These things? Are they? Um? 0:18:34.800 --> 0:18:39.520 Similar to to um colonialization. They're taking you to where 0:18:40.200 --> 0:18:43.440 to what and why? And when you get there, what 0:18:43.560 --> 0:18:48.240 are the provisions for you? You know? And I think 0:18:48.280 --> 0:18:50.720 that's very important as we think about the future. And 0:18:51.040 --> 0:18:55.120 you can't although the theme was hope, you can't get 0:18:55.200 --> 0:18:58.760 to hope without going through catastrophe. And in the midst 0:18:58.760 --> 0:19:03.320 of catastrophe, how do you earnmore yourself from that while 0:19:03.400 --> 0:19:07.920 we're keeping your identity right and advocating for yourself in 0:19:07.960 --> 0:19:12.880 the process. And yeah, that was that is you don't know. 0:19:13.640 --> 0:19:19.200 I intentionally did not include any extract information on New 0:19:19.240 --> 0:19:25.600 corn Land, which I intentionally called them that, because we 0:19:25.680 --> 0:19:28.040 don't know. I don't I don't think we will know 0:19:28.640 --> 0:19:31.320 what that means for us. And obviously New corn Land 0:19:31.520 --> 0:19:39.439 is alluding to one place in the West. However, the West. 0:19:40.640 --> 0:19:46.200 Strangely enough, they regulate what is developed on underdeveloped country 0:19:46.440 --> 0:19:51.560 and they also contribute to keeping those countries underdeveloped or developing. 0:19:52.440 --> 0:19:55.359 So um, those things that are really important to me 0:19:55.400 --> 0:19:57.760 are really important to me when I wrote this story, 0:19:57.880 --> 0:20:03.359 because we really can't put our finger on what would 0:20:03.359 --> 0:20:09.840 happen to our heritage and our culture when climate crisis increases, 0:20:09.880 --> 0:20:11.800 and it is increasing every day it is. It is 0:20:11.840 --> 0:20:15.840 at a hight right now, it's every day, and there 0:20:15.880 --> 0:20:19.800 are people who are looking steadfastly in mac round micro 0:20:19.880 --> 0:20:24.520 ways to help curb this using technology. Of course, I 0:20:24.560 --> 0:20:27.399 have a friend right now, tintagrapher make up to you 0:20:27.800 --> 0:20:31.680 who's doing her masters and crowdsourcing as a means of 0:20:31.920 --> 0:20:35.560 flood managed flood risk management. And that's something that we 0:20:35.640 --> 0:20:41.720 experience here at an extreme extreme cost. A little bit 0:20:41.720 --> 0:20:46.560 of rainwall fall and places would flood crazy, right And 0:20:46.640 --> 0:20:49.200 that's because the sea is doing what the sea does, 0:20:49.520 --> 0:20:52.080 the weather is doing what the weather does, and with 0:20:52.280 --> 0:20:57.479 rising global temperatures, et cetera and intensified weather events, you 0:20:57.560 --> 0:21:00.480 can't It's very little we could do this point to 0:21:00.600 --> 0:21:05.359 help progress that. So I think we need to look 0:21:05.400 --> 0:21:09.399 at what we as human beings are capable of doing 0:21:09.880 --> 0:21:20.800 without technology in ensuring that we we meaning we our ancestors, 0:21:20.920 --> 0:21:24.479 their ancestors. What do we hold when we move forward 0:21:24.880 --> 0:21:28.080 into the future, and what can we ensure we don't 0:21:28.160 --> 0:21:32.000 lose as a result of that. That was important to me, 0:21:32.119 --> 0:21:35.680 especially near the end of the story. How do you 0:21:36.119 --> 0:21:43.480 account the people of Trinidad and Tobago think about climate 0:21:43.560 --> 0:21:49.960 change and the climate crisis, because you know, in the US, right, 0:21:50.560 --> 0:21:55.640 we're still trying to convince people that climate change is real, right, 0:21:55.680 --> 0:21:59.520 that it's happening, and regards regardless of of once in 0:21:59.640 --> 0:22:02.800 essentially three hurricanes and tornadoes and fire seasons that are 0:22:02.800 --> 0:22:06.680 happening every year, but they're once in a century, regardless 0:22:06.720 --> 0:22:10.639 of you know, consistent devastation and droughts, and how it 0:22:10.680 --> 0:22:13.920 is affecting our food chain and our supplies and all 0:22:13.920 --> 0:22:17.159 of these things. It is as if you know, the 0:22:17.560 --> 0:22:21.639 ignorance is just is a cancer? Is a cancer on 0:22:21.680 --> 0:22:26.720 this country? And so is there this feeling that there 0:22:26.800 --> 0:22:31.280 is a similar divide or because it is an island 0:22:31.560 --> 0:22:34.639 that is you know, at the will, at the mercy, 0:22:34.720 --> 0:22:37.800 let's say, of the environment, is that something that is 0:22:37.880 --> 0:22:42.120 just You don't need to convince people, they know, right, 0:22:42.600 --> 0:22:45.600 that's a good question. And although I can't speak for everybody, 0:22:45.640 --> 0:22:52.200 what I would see is that, well, I think that 0:22:52.840 --> 0:22:57.080 maybe this is similar similar a similar sentiment in America. 0:22:57.160 --> 0:22:59.760 You could tell me, but people tend to get caught 0:22:59.840 --> 0:23:05.360 up in the right now things. I need a job 0:23:05.440 --> 0:23:09.360 right now. We need money right now in education right now. 0:23:10.119 --> 0:23:15.959 Inflation is really high right now. There are you know, 0:23:17.119 --> 0:23:20.360 huge other garments of issues that are happening right now, 0:23:20.359 --> 0:23:21.800 and they could touch, and they could see and they 0:23:21.800 --> 0:23:29.280 could feel. With climate change policymakers and those who dedicate 0:23:29.320 --> 0:23:32.600 their lives to it, they have to make the argument 0:23:32.840 --> 0:23:37.159 that this thing that you can't see is happening. And 0:23:37.320 --> 0:23:39.840 although you can't see it, and I have to try 0:23:39.880 --> 0:23:42.159 to make it tangible for you, you need to understand 0:23:42.240 --> 0:23:45.600 that it is going to affect your livelihood and your 0:23:45.640 --> 0:23:50.080 children's livelihoods and the livelihood of your small island state. 0:23:50.640 --> 0:23:55.760 That is very hard to do. And in my country, 0:23:57.320 --> 0:24:00.440 I mean they are initiatives, you know, small pockets of initiatives, 0:24:00.440 --> 0:24:03.320 say and there. I don't think there is a large initiative. 0:24:03.400 --> 0:24:08.840 I don't think that the government necessarily successive previous governments 0:24:08.920 --> 0:24:15.199 have taken climate change off the table and put it 0:24:15.240 --> 0:24:17.480 into the faces of the population as it needs to be. 0:24:18.640 --> 0:24:23.480 I do know that me and Martley, the Prime Minister Barbados, 0:24:23.640 --> 0:24:26.520 I think is the I don't I don't want to 0:24:26.520 --> 0:24:29.440 say it only but she is the pre eminent figure 0:24:29.480 --> 0:24:32.400 when we think about Cribin and climate change. She is African, 0:24:33.040 --> 0:24:37.720 right she I think honeyame comes up very easily. However, 0:24:37.960 --> 0:24:41.960 that isn't enough. It isn't enough, and it will never 0:24:42.000 --> 0:24:46.320 be enough. And because climate change is not a election 0:24:46.400 --> 0:24:51.480 winning topic, right, it tends to be sidelined. So I 0:24:51.520 --> 0:24:55.440 don't think people are that concerned now, people being obviously 0:24:56.560 --> 0:24:58.800 I see who I think is the maturity. There are 0:24:58.800 --> 0:25:02.200 people who are very concerned. There are people who are 0:25:02.200 --> 0:25:04.440 trying their best. But I don't think it's very hard, 0:25:04.440 --> 0:25:08.399 as you say to UM, put this in front of 0:25:08.400 --> 0:25:15.520 people and explain, especially because and this goes back to fiction, UM, 0:25:15.520 --> 0:25:20.400 thinking about climate fiction, for futurism, science fiction, a lot 0:25:20.400 --> 0:25:24.560 of it is dyscopion, right, A lot of it is dyscopion. 0:25:24.640 --> 0:25:30.639 A lot of it involves catastrophe and the after effects 0:25:30.640 --> 0:25:42.639 of catastrophe. People don't like to think about depressing, UM, 0:25:42.760 --> 0:25:46.120 things that will involve, you know, the death of humanity 0:25:46.160 --> 0:25:54.920 as we know it. Subject. You know, if I were 0:25:54.920 --> 0:25:57.720 to campaign, come to campaign on that, I feel as 0:25:57.720 --> 0:26:03.320 those people would be like, let's not let's not going in, right, 0:26:04.400 --> 0:26:08.240 And they tend to have avoid talking of talking, acknowledging, planning, spending, 0:26:08.280 --> 0:26:11.520 political time on it because they naturally don't want to 0:26:11.560 --> 0:26:20.399 activate those negative, depressing emotional domains. So by injecting hope 0:26:20.400 --> 0:26:23.960 into the narrative, whether it be fictional or real, I 0:26:24.040 --> 0:26:29.400 think you can get people to pay attention. So in saying, yes, 0:26:29.920 --> 0:26:33.800 these things may likely happen, but there is a way 0:26:34.680 --> 0:26:36.879 that if they do happen, we can get out of it. 0:26:36.960 --> 0:26:39.200 Or if they do happen, there is a way that 0:26:39.240 --> 0:26:41.600 our impact won't be as bad as it could be. 0:26:42.359 --> 0:26:46.520 I think it's very important to get people on board 0:26:46.640 --> 0:26:51.200 through hope in a more tangible way. I think fiction 0:26:51.280 --> 0:26:55.400 is a really good way to do that, apart from 0:26:55.440 --> 0:27:00.439 obviously political willpower, and political willpower is something that's scarce, 0:27:02.240 --> 0:27:05.360 scarce in that that thing. And there are people who 0:27:05.440 --> 0:27:13.040 just obviously reject anything, um, they think doesn't align with 0:27:13.080 --> 0:27:17.439 their agenda. M h you know, people who live for themselves. 0:27:18.680 --> 0:27:21.320 I live for me, and I'm gonna die soon, so 0:27:21.400 --> 0:27:23.600 I don't care about that. I don't think that we 0:27:23.640 --> 0:27:29.720 can change their mind. Um. You know, however, it is dispiriting, 0:27:29.800 --> 0:27:34.760 I would say, especially because um, you know, places like 0:27:34.760 --> 0:27:39.800 America do contribute to a large of the climate issues 0:27:40.280 --> 0:27:45.760 that when you look at the political How do you 0:27:45.760 --> 0:27:50.280 even describe that? I don't know. I mean I try 0:27:50.359 --> 0:27:52.160 every day on this show to try and figure out 0:27:52.160 --> 0:27:55.640 how to describe it. I don't know how. I don't know. Wow, 0:27:56.880 --> 0:28:00.480 I don't know how you describe it. You will try 0:28:00.520 --> 0:28:04.120 to pick all the glimmers of hope where you can, 0:28:05.200 --> 0:28:10.880 and you know, hope that those in power take some 0:28:10.960 --> 0:28:14.600 steps to help the situation. But it's it's hard because 0:28:15.000 --> 0:28:16.919 those us any creep and we can't do it alone. 0:28:17.320 --> 0:28:23.000 We really can't. Yeah, maybe we really can't. So yes, 0:28:23.880 --> 0:28:25.760 I just I you know, I just want to say, 0:28:26.040 --> 0:28:28.439 you know, as as as we close, I just I 0:28:28.480 --> 0:28:31.800 appreciated the story so much because as people who listen 0:28:31.840 --> 0:28:34.280 to Woke a f on a regular basis, no, I 0:28:34.320 --> 0:28:37.920 amy of little hope, right, um, and yet I and 0:28:37.920 --> 0:28:41.200 and and yet I am I continue to you know, 0:28:41.680 --> 0:28:44.840 rail against the powers that be because I believe that 0:28:44.880 --> 0:28:48.400 people have more power than they know. And what I 0:28:48.800 --> 0:28:51.000 and what I yeah, and what I loved about your 0:28:51.080 --> 0:28:56.440 story was just you know, again it was it conjured 0:28:56.520 --> 0:29:01.160 so much imagery for me, the ship that was supposedly 0:29:01.200 --> 0:29:05.400 coming to rescue and then I'm thinking about the slave ships, 0:29:05.480 --> 0:29:09.360 and I'm thinking about you know, the and what people were. 0:29:09.840 --> 0:29:14.400 They knew obviously because they're marching in captivity, chained, UM, 0:29:14.760 --> 0:29:16.880 that what was meeting them on the other side was 0:29:16.960 --> 0:29:20.360 surely not what they were what they were being forced 0:29:20.400 --> 0:29:24.760 to leave. However, this this your ship, you know, was 0:29:24.800 --> 0:29:27.320 saying oh, yeah, come, you know, come on. But then 0:29:27.400 --> 0:29:29.640 you you're seeing this picture of what is on there 0:29:29.640 --> 0:29:32.880 and you're like, I don't want to live on loop. 0:29:33.040 --> 0:29:35.280 I want you know, I want to be a part 0:29:35.360 --> 0:29:39.200 of a rebuild, um that is essentially for us and 0:29:39.280 --> 0:29:43.120 by us, right, Um, And this holding onto language. The 0:29:43.200 --> 0:29:45.920 last question that I have for you, um is one 0:29:45.960 --> 0:29:47.440 I don't even know if there is an answer for 0:29:47.720 --> 0:29:51.840