1 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 1: Good morning, Peepsen, and welcome to woke FP Daily with 2 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:20,040 Speaker 1: me your girl Danielle Moody. Pre recording as last week 3 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:22,200 Speaker 1: or this week whenever you're listening to. This was my 4 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 1: birthday and I took a little time off to celebrate, 5 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:29,480 Speaker 1: but I'm really excited. A couple of weeks ago you 6 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:33,080 Speaker 1: all got to hear my interview with Tory Stevens from 7 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:38,640 Speaker 1: Grist and the founder of the Fixed Climate Fiction Contest, 8 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:42,680 Speaker 1: And so I've been so fortunate to be able to 9 00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 1: interview some of the authors of these climate futures, and 10 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:51,839 Speaker 1: just as a reminder, Imagine twenty two hundred is a 11 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:57,440 Speaker 1: fixed climate fiction contest recognizing stories that envisioned the next 12 00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:02,200 Speaker 1: one hundred and eighty years of equitable climate progress, imagining 13 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 1: intersectional worlds of abundance, adaptation, reform, and hope. And today 14 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:13,880 Speaker 1: I am in conversation with author A. Kema Lexis, and 15 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:19,959 Speaker 1: we are discussing his story, The Lexicographer and One Tree Island. 16 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:25,000 Speaker 1: After an oceanic rapture, a lone survivor adapts to his 17 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:29,880 Speaker 1: new reality in ways both mental and physical. I told 18 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 1: you all probably back in twenty twenty that you know, 19 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:38,759 Speaker 1: as the world was being turned upside down by COVID, 20 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:44,200 Speaker 1: and we were in quarantine and indoors and trying to 21 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 1: figure out what life was going to look like. It's 22 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:50,280 Speaker 1: crazy to me to believe that in a few months 23 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 1: it will be three years right since that time, and 24 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 1: you know, because reality had just basically started to mirror 25 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:03,800 Speaker 1: science fiction. A friend of mine suggested that I get 26 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:07,760 Speaker 1: into afrofuturism, that I kind of allow my mind to 27 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:10,600 Speaker 1: leave the present and to leave this world and to 28 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 1: just go and explore other worlds. And I'll say that 29 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:20,959 Speaker 1: in many ways, afrofuturism, African futurism, and science fiction pretty 30 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:25,120 Speaker 1: much saved my mental health at the beginning of the pandemic. 31 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:30,520 Speaker 1: And I've devoured so many books since. All of them, however, 32 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 1: have kind of set their worlds in a place of dystopia. Right. 33 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 1: Sci fi has generally come from the destruction of the 34 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:44,280 Speaker 1: planet and now we're in out of space or things 35 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:46,640 Speaker 1: are so terrible now we live in a warner world 36 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:52,400 Speaker 1: because we have ruined everything. And what I love about 37 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:59,640 Speaker 1: Imagine twenty two hundreds contest is it is asking creative 38 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:04,920 Speaker 1: right to think from a place of abundance, to envision 39 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:12,320 Speaker 1: a world that isn't dealing with scarcity, but to use 40 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:19,040 Speaker 1: the climate crisis as a way to use these obstacles 41 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:23,760 Speaker 1: as opportunities to create new worlds. It's not to say 42 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 1: that crisis won't happen, but I think that what we 43 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:29,680 Speaker 1: do with it, how we think about it, how we 44 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:33,080 Speaker 1: act on it, is the difference between coming from a 45 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 1: scarcy new mindset and one of abundance. And so I 46 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 1: love the idea that as we are no longer in 47 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 1: the impending climate crisis, we are living inside of the 48 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:47,120 Speaker 1: climate crisis. For us to imagine not our impending doom, 49 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 1: but what are some of the opportunities that can come 50 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 1: out of the catastrophes? Where do we see ourselves? And again, 51 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 1: I've expressed this so many times on this show and 52 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 1: on others, that you can't dream from a place of rage. 53 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:08,040 Speaker 1: Rest is required in order for us to imagine, to dream, 54 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 1: to go into that alternate scape of reality, and you 55 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 1: can't do that if you're overwhelmed and overworked. And so 56 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:20,200 Speaker 1: I think that it is also really important for us 57 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:24,360 Speaker 1: to come to understand that some of our best ideas 58 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:27,039 Speaker 1: have come from a relaxed mind, have come from a 59 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:30,839 Speaker 1: walk in nature, have come from being surrounded by family 60 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:34,120 Speaker 1: and loved ones, And so what does it look like 61 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:38,320 Speaker 1: to dream of a future one hundred and eighty years 62 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 1: from now that is full of possibility instead of panic. 63 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:49,280 Speaker 1: So coming up next my conversation with author a chem 64 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 1: Alexis and his story The Lexicographer and One Tree Island. Friends, 65 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:01,279 Speaker 1: I'm very excited to welcome to Woke a f Daily 66 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:05,520 Speaker 1: for the very first time, a Kem Alexis, who is 67 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:12,280 Speaker 1: a short story writer and his piece became an Imagine 68 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:16,200 Speaker 1: twenty two hundred finalist. If you all remember from an 69 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:23,839 Speaker 1: initial conversation that I had back with Tory Stevens about futurism, afrofuturism, 70 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 1: African futurism, and what it means to create a climate 71 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:34,240 Speaker 1: positive future in literature. So a Keem, I'm very excited 72 00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:40,839 Speaker 1: to talk to you your piece entitled The Lexicographer and 73 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:44,599 Speaker 1: the One Tree Island. I have to tell you, I 74 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:46,800 Speaker 1: just want to give you an opportunity. I want people 75 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 1: to read it, but I want you to give people 76 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:51,039 Speaker 1: the opportunity. I want to give you the opportunity to 77 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:56,120 Speaker 1: give an overview of of your story. So it's so 78 00:05:56,200 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 1: beautiful and we'll dig into it. But tell me about 79 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:04,400 Speaker 1: tell me about its origins and and and the theme 80 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:09,160 Speaker 1: of the story. Well, I'm happy to be here by 81 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 1: the ray, so thank you for that introduction. Um. Well, 82 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:16,560 Speaker 1: the theme is hope. But what happens in the story 83 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:19,680 Speaker 1: without two month too many spoilers, is that it's set 84 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:22,839 Speaker 1: in the future on a Caribbean island, let's say my 85 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:27,360 Speaker 1: Caribbean island. And what happens is after a number of 86 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:31,679 Speaker 1: years and rising sea levels, the water has eaten away 87 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:36,520 Speaker 1: the island living one tree and one boy with some animals, 88 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 1: and these entities tend to but in the future they 89 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:44,800 Speaker 1: try to figure out a way to keep the island 90 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 1: going along with a surprise guest happen. UM. So it's 91 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 1: you know, it's about resilience. It's about um. It's centers 92 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:05,279 Speaker 1: black food. And I think that it was a challenge 93 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:10,760 Speaker 1: me to write and resilience hope of climate change, destruction 94 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:16,200 Speaker 1: and how we survive amidst amidst that destruction. So that 95 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 1: is what I hope. I mean, I will I will 96 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:25,720 Speaker 1: tell you that, Um I started the story, and I mean, well, 97 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:28,360 Speaker 1: I'll talk about it at high levels because I really 98 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:31,480 Speaker 1: want people to go um and find it and read 99 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 1: it and we will link to it. Um. Yeah, but 100 00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:37,960 Speaker 1: I want to talk about the the term that you 101 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:43,680 Speaker 1: use in the story, oceanic rapture UM, because it both 102 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 1: obviously hearkens to religious scripture around the rapture and uh 103 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:53,400 Speaker 1: and and and the and the coming back of you know, 104 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 1: of of of Christ right and then it you know, 105 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:02,200 Speaker 1: and then we're talking about the tidal wave, this tsunami 106 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:06,119 Speaker 1: that blankets the sky and kind of and takes over 107 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 1: um all of these Caribbean islands. And of course, you know, 108 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 1: my heart goes to the places that we've seen in 109 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 1: the news and in the headlines, like Pakistan and Nigeria 110 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:22,840 Speaker 1: and Puerto Rico and you know, parts of Germany and 111 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:28,360 Speaker 1: France that had been underwater. Uh that three quarters of 112 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:33,319 Speaker 1: of of the landmass in Pakistan's underwater, uh over thirty 113 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:38,400 Speaker 1: of the states and in Nigeria or underwater. So talk 114 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:43,600 Speaker 1: to me about the visualization of this oceanic rapture and 115 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:46,560 Speaker 1: and what that conjured for you and this this idea, 116 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:49,360 Speaker 1: this you know, and it goes back to I think 117 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 1: it was my God, was this the early two thousands 118 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:58,960 Speaker 1: or late nineties, the major tsunami in in uh in Thailand, right, Um, 119 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:04,119 Speaker 1: that was that was that was that happened via underwater earthquake. 120 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:09,960 Speaker 1: So just that that imagery. Can you talk about about that? Yes, 121 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:15,320 Speaker 1: of course, thank you for you know, linking all those 122 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 1: real life issues because it really helps with all that. 123 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:23,960 Speaker 1: What I'm going to say, I think the ocean and 124 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:29,560 Speaker 1: its attendance have been portraying in the media as very 125 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:34,959 Speaker 1: vicious and rightly so we are dealing with something that 126 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 1: is particularly violent and can be, and we are contributing 127 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:47,880 Speaker 1: to that. On the other end. For me and this story, 128 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 1: I'm from Trinidad, from the Caribbean, and rising sea levels 129 00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 1: is something that is real right all our island trend 130 00:09:56,400 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 1: and Tobago, our capital city, is built on the sea, 131 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:05,800 Speaker 1: and at some point in time it's already beginning to 132 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:09,439 Speaker 1: do so the sea will one back its place right 133 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:14,560 Speaker 1: and apart from that, apart from the west contributing to 134 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:20,000 Speaker 1: most of the climate issues we have right now, it's 135 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:24,720 Speaker 1: going to affect small island developing states like ours or 136 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:27,760 Speaker 1: other developing countries, under developed countries, and we see it 137 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:32,960 Speaker 1: every day. So as we say happening back to things 138 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 1: like religion, happening back to did they see itself is 139 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:44,040 Speaker 1: something that although we can track changes, we can do investigations, 140 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:48,440 Speaker 1: we can find understandings, it's unpredictable at times, and when 141 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 1: we add to that unpredictable predictability and that unknowing, we 142 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:59,080 Speaker 1: are setting up ourselves for some prime failure in the future. 143 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 1: For me as well, I think that we tend to 144 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 1: underestimate the power of the sea has for cleaning back 145 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:11,160 Speaker 1: what exactly it owns. We don't we don't want anything 146 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:14,120 Speaker 1: if you tend to feel as we but we don't. 147 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 1: Um So I think that for old, oceanic rapture wasn't 148 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:21,679 Speaker 1: something that was very hard for me to pick up on, 149 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:26,120 Speaker 1: and you know, I'm blowing the story. Apart from that, 150 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:28,160 Speaker 1: I think this is beautiful. I think there are a 151 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:32,079 Speaker 1: lot of things that we can use to help or 152 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:36,400 Speaker 1: understandings of climate change, how we can curb it, because 153 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:39,760 Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's happening. It's not something that I 154 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:46,640 Speaker 1: think we can but h it's it's So it's interesting 155 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:52,080 Speaker 1: because I entered the competition last year and I didn't 156 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:55,839 Speaker 1: touch anything with regards to oceanic rapture. I was far 157 00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:59,280 Speaker 1: from the back of my head. So this year I 158 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:03,360 Speaker 1: really decided to clamp down on something that I think 159 00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:07,560 Speaker 1: schools to whom, so that is how I end up 160 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:12,319 Speaker 1: ended up coming up with this and to go from there, 161 00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 1: I guess, you know, one of the other the other 162 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:20,560 Speaker 1: kind of elements. There were so many, um and it's 163 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:25,920 Speaker 1: and it's so beautifully visual. Your story is the idea 164 00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:33,800 Speaker 1: of this two gendered or no gendered space and the 165 00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:39,880 Speaker 1: idea that over time that you know, the boy is 166 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 1: said to be developing little gills on his cheeks, and 167 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:49,119 Speaker 1: as the cities that have been destroyed, they're being rebuilt 168 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:54,200 Speaker 1: by AI intelligence, by robots. And you talk about in 169 00:12:54,240 --> 00:13:00,240 Speaker 1: the in the story about the adaptability of humans and animals, right, 170 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:06,280 Speaker 1: and the and the ability to to to the ability 171 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:09,160 Speaker 1: that humans and animals have to adapt and that robots 172 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:12,839 Speaker 1: do not. So while they are rebuilding right and they 173 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:18,240 Speaker 1: can do the construction. Um, the adaptability piece speak to 174 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:22,600 Speaker 1: that because again, we are at a time when it's 175 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:25,520 Speaker 1: like I feel part in the real world that we 176 00:13:25,559 --> 00:13:27,839 Speaker 1: are living, both in the future and the president at 177 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:32,880 Speaker 1: the same time when you're seeing technology and the reliance 178 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:36,880 Speaker 1: that we have on technology and the development of AI 179 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:39,920 Speaker 1: and you know, and coding and all of these things 180 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:44,760 Speaker 1: but that are still embodying the same type of systemic racism, 181 00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 1: the same type of ignorance. UM. And so I thought 182 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:54,559 Speaker 1: that this idea of why humans and animals still matter right, um, 183 00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 1: that you presented was just so powerful. So talk talk 184 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:04,720 Speaker 1: to me about a about that. Well, you know, discussions 185 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:07,400 Speaker 1: are wrong, things like climate, climate change, or any other 186 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:13,000 Speaker 1: drastic issues that make our future look very dystopian. We 187 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:17,319 Speaker 1: tend to depend on technology, look to technology, absorb technology 188 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:20,040 Speaker 1: as the answer, and that's fine, there's nothing wrong with that. 189 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:23,920 Speaker 1: I mean, we can't move ahead without technology. However, in 190 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:31,000 Speaker 1: doing so, eroding the importance of humanism and animalism is 191 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:37,200 Speaker 1: contra productive. And in this story, especially in the seame 192 00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:41,560 Speaker 1: of hope, hope is a word that is consider kind 193 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:45,720 Speaker 1: of like intangible area and wishful in that way, and 194 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:49,480 Speaker 1: fiction tends to put words to work, and they are 195 00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:53,200 Speaker 1: bare lowing for like hope as praxis, How can hope 196 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:59,240 Speaker 1: become tangible reality? In doing so, centering the human and 197 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:02,680 Speaker 1: animal connect is important. In fact, I think it is 198 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:08,320 Speaker 1: top priority. And apart from that, centering humans that are 199 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:13,920 Speaker 1: minorities are should be at the center more particularly because 200 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:18,200 Speaker 1: these are the people who are mostly affected by these 201 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:21,240 Speaker 1: changes in the world. So when we think about and 202 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:27,800 Speaker 1: talk about climate change, technology is important. But I couldn't 203 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:31,240 Speaker 1: see myself writing something where te technology was the answer 204 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:36,720 Speaker 1: alone in this story. I was going to say no, 205 00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:42,040 Speaker 1: because oftentimes in in futurism, in sci fi, technology is 206 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 1: the hero, right The robots are the robots are are 207 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:50,400 Speaker 1: are are the heroes of the story, and humans are 208 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:53,520 Speaker 1: the ones are I looked at as the destroyers and 209 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:57,800 Speaker 1: your story was the complete opposite. I wanted to turn 210 00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:01,240 Speaker 1: that on his head because I am very wary. Although 211 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:04,680 Speaker 1: I have a letter behind me, I am very wary 212 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 1: when it comes to to um AI and robots and 213 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:13,960 Speaker 1: what we think that they're capable of or incapable of, 214 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:17,560 Speaker 1: you know, UM as you move ahead into the future, 215 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:25,680 Speaker 1: especially when it comes to um intersectionality, etc. I don't 216 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:28,920 Speaker 1: think they are I'm obviously I'm not an expert in that, 217 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:34,320 Speaker 1: but I don't think there's an inherent programming that we 218 00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 1: could come up with to help robots um just combat 219 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:48,720 Speaker 1: the things that we have to combat in the right 220 00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:53,440 Speaker 1: um So turning that on its head was very important 221 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:57,800 Speaker 1: to me, especially from somebody from the Caribbean, where you know, 222 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:03,280 Speaker 1: very last to be told or anything, and the fools 223 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:10,480 Speaker 1: to be affected. Yep, right, And I remembering the story 224 00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:12,399 Speaker 1: near to the end, like I kind of need it 225 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:18,760 Speaker 1: seem your robots themselves seem seemed like danger. Yes, they 226 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:21,639 Speaker 1: see they they see you know, the the you know 227 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:28,240 Speaker 1: as as again, folks, you you must read, you must 228 00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:33,720 Speaker 1: read the short story. Um. But as the ship comes, 229 00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:38,720 Speaker 1: you know, to potentially rescue. Right, that's this idea. You've 230 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:42,120 Speaker 1: been living on this one you know, this one tree 231 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:45,359 Speaker 1: island surrounded by a barrier reef and you know, and 232 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:47,640 Speaker 1: and you've been there, so you must you must want 233 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:52,040 Speaker 1: to get back to quote unquote civilization. Um. And and 234 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:55,600 Speaker 1: then recognizing that the robots and the ship and another 235 00:17:55,760 --> 00:18:01,000 Speaker 1: themselves is some weird enslavement and loop thing that is 236 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:03,840 Speaker 1: that has happened, that has that has the people that 237 00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:07,720 Speaker 1: have decided to go backwards right, to go back to 238 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:11,720 Speaker 1: this place instead of preserved, um what is present to 239 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:14,159 Speaker 1: them and what they know. I thought that that was 240 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:17,520 Speaker 1: really powerful as well a can because I was like, 241 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:23,119 Speaker 1: my god, you know, yes, this civilization is being rebuilt, 242 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:25,720 Speaker 1: but the questions being asked, do you even know what 243 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:28,240 Speaker 1: kind of food? They have? Do you even know if 244 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:31,320 Speaker 1: you what language they speak? Do you even know who 245 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:34,520 Speaker 1: is doing who is relieving? These things? Are they? Um? 246 00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:39,520 Speaker 1: Similar to to um colonialization. They're taking you to where 247 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:43,440 Speaker 1: to what and why? And when you get there, what 248 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:48,240 Speaker 1: are the provisions for you? You know? And I think 249 00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:50,720 Speaker 1: that's very important as we think about the future. And 250 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:55,120 Speaker 1: you can't although the theme was hope, you can't get 251 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:58,760 Speaker 1: to hope without going through catastrophe. And in the midst 252 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:03,320 Speaker 1: of catastrophe, how do you earnmore yourself from that while 253 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:07,920 Speaker 1: we're keeping your identity right and advocating for yourself in 254 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:12,880 Speaker 1: the process. And yeah, that was that is you don't know. 255 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:19,200 Speaker 1: I intentionally did not include any extract information on New 256 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 1: corn Land, which I intentionally called them that, because we 257 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:28,040 Speaker 1: don't know. I don't I don't think we will know 258 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:31,320 Speaker 1: what that means for us. And obviously New corn Land 259 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:39,439 Speaker 1: is alluding to one place in the West. However, the West. 260 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:46,200 Speaker 1: Strangely enough, they regulate what is developed on underdeveloped country 261 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 1: and they also contribute to keeping those countries underdeveloped or developing. 262 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:55,359 Speaker 1: So um, those things that are really important to me 263 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:57,760 Speaker 1: are really important to me when I wrote this story, 264 00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:03,359 Speaker 1: because we really can't put our finger on what would 265 00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:09,840 Speaker 1: happen to our heritage and our culture when climate crisis increases, 266 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:11,800 Speaker 1: and it is increasing every day it is. It is 267 00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:15,840 Speaker 1: at a hight right now, it's every day, and there 268 00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:19,800 Speaker 1: are people who are looking steadfastly in mac round micro 269 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:24,520 Speaker 1: ways to help curb this using technology. Of course, I 270 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:27,399 Speaker 1: have a friend right now, tintagrapher make up to you 271 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:31,680 Speaker 1: who's doing her masters and crowdsourcing as a means of 272 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:35,560 Speaker 1: flood managed flood risk management. And that's something that we 273 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:41,720 Speaker 1: experience here at an extreme extreme cost. A little bit 274 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:46,560 Speaker 1: of rainwall fall and places would flood crazy, right And 275 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:49,200 Speaker 1: that's because the sea is doing what the sea does, 276 00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:52,080 Speaker 1: the weather is doing what the weather does, and with 277 00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:57,479 Speaker 1: rising global temperatures, et cetera and intensified weather events, you 278 00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:00,480 Speaker 1: can't It's very little we could do this point to 279 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:05,359 Speaker 1: help progress that. So I think we need to look 280 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:09,399 Speaker 1: at what we as human beings are capable of doing 281 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:20,800 Speaker 1: without technology in ensuring that we we meaning we our ancestors, 282 00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:24,479 Speaker 1: their ancestors. What do we hold when we move forward 283 00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:28,080 Speaker 1: into the future, and what can we ensure we don't 284 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:32,000 Speaker 1: lose as a result of that. That was important to me, 285 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:35,680 Speaker 1: especially near the end of the story. How do you 286 00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:43,480 Speaker 1: account the people of Trinidad and Tobago think about climate 287 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:49,960 Speaker 1: change and the climate crisis, because you know, in the US, right, 288 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:55,640 Speaker 1: we're still trying to convince people that climate change is real, right, 289 00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:59,520 Speaker 1: that it's happening, and regards regardless of of once in 290 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:02,800 Speaker 1: essentially three hurricanes and tornadoes and fire seasons that are 291 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:06,680 Speaker 1: happening every year, but they're once in a century, regardless 292 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:10,639 Speaker 1: of you know, consistent devastation and droughts, and how it 293 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:13,920 Speaker 1: is affecting our food chain and our supplies and all 294 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:17,159 Speaker 1: of these things. It is as if you know, the 295 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:21,639 Speaker 1: ignorance is just is a cancer? Is a cancer on 296 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:26,720 Speaker 1: this country? And so is there this feeling that there 297 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:31,280 Speaker 1: is a similar divide or because it is an island 298 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:34,639 Speaker 1: that is you know, at the will, at the mercy, 299 00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:37,800 Speaker 1: let's say, of the environment, is that something that is 300 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:42,120 Speaker 1: just You don't need to convince people, they know, right, 301 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:45,600 Speaker 1: that's a good question. And although I can't speak for everybody, 302 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:52,200 Speaker 1: what I would see is that, well, I think that 303 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 1: maybe this is similar similar a similar sentiment in America. 304 00:22:57,160 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 1: You could tell me, but people tend to get caught 305 00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:05,360 Speaker 1: up in the right now things. I need a job 306 00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:09,360 Speaker 1: right now. We need money right now in education right now. 307 00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:15,959 Speaker 1: Inflation is really high right now. There are you know, 308 00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:20,360 Speaker 1: huge other garments of issues that are happening right now, 309 00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:21,800 Speaker 1: and they could touch, and they could see and they 310 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:29,280 Speaker 1: could feel. With climate change policymakers and those who dedicate 311 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:32,600 Speaker 1: their lives to it, they have to make the argument 312 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:37,159 Speaker 1: that this thing that you can't see is happening. And 313 00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:39,840 Speaker 1: although you can't see it, and I have to try 314 00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:42,159 Speaker 1: to make it tangible for you, you need to understand 315 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:45,600 Speaker 1: that it is going to affect your livelihood and your 316 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:50,080 Speaker 1: children's livelihoods and the livelihood of your small island state. 317 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:55,760 Speaker 1: That is very hard to do. And in my country, 318 00:23:57,320 --> 00:24:00,440 Speaker 1: I mean they are initiatives, you know, small pockets of initiatives, 319 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:03,320 Speaker 1: say and there. I don't think there is a large initiative. 320 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:08,840 Speaker 1: I don't think that the government necessarily successive previous governments 321 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:15,199 Speaker 1: have taken climate change off the table and put it 322 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:17,480 Speaker 1: into the faces of the population as it needs to be. 323 00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:23,480 Speaker 1: I do know that me and Martley, the Prime Minister Barbados, 324 00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:26,520 Speaker 1: I think is the I don't I don't want to 325 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:29,440 Speaker 1: say it only but she is the pre eminent figure 326 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:32,400 Speaker 1: when we think about Cribin and climate change. She is African, 327 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:37,720 Speaker 1: right she I think honeyame comes up very easily. However, 328 00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:41,960 Speaker 1: that isn't enough. It isn't enough, and it will never 329 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:46,320 Speaker 1: be enough. And because climate change is not a election 330 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:51,480 Speaker 1: winning topic, right, it tends to be sidelined. So I 331 00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:55,440 Speaker 1: don't think people are that concerned now, people being obviously 332 00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:58,800 Speaker 1: I see who I think is the maturity. There are 333 00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:02,200 Speaker 1: people who are very concerned. There are people who are 334 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:04,440 Speaker 1: trying their best. But I don't think it's very hard, 335 00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:08,399 Speaker 1: as you say to UM, put this in front of 336 00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:15,520 Speaker 1: people and explain, especially because and this goes back to fiction, UM, 337 00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:20,400 Speaker 1: thinking about climate fiction, for futurism, science fiction, a lot 338 00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:24,560 Speaker 1: of it is dyscopion, right, A lot of it is dyscopion. 339 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:30,639 Speaker 1: A lot of it involves catastrophe and the after effects 340 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:42,639 Speaker 1: of catastrophe. People don't like to think about depressing, UM, 341 00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:46,120 Speaker 1: things that will involve, you know, the death of humanity 342 00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:54,920 Speaker 1: as we know it. Subject. You know, if I were 343 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:57,720 Speaker 1: to campaign, come to campaign on that, I feel as 344 00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:03,320 Speaker 1: those people would be like, let's not let's not going in, right, 345 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:08,240 Speaker 1: And they tend to have avoid talking of talking, acknowledging, planning, spending, 346 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:11,520 Speaker 1: political time on it because they naturally don't want to 347 00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:20,399 Speaker 1: activate those negative, depressing emotional domains. So by injecting hope 348 00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,960 Speaker 1: into the narrative, whether it be fictional or real, I 349 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:29,400 Speaker 1: think you can get people to pay attention. So in saying, yes, 350 00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:33,800 Speaker 1: these things may likely happen, but there is a way 351 00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:36,879 Speaker 1: that if they do happen, we can get out of it. 352 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:39,200 Speaker 1: Or if they do happen, there is a way that 353 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 1: our impact won't be as bad as it could be. 354 00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:46,520 Speaker 1: I think it's very important to get people on board 355 00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:51,200 Speaker 1: through hope in a more tangible way. I think fiction 356 00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:55,400 Speaker 1: is a really good way to do that, apart from 357 00:26:55,440 --> 00:27:00,439 Speaker 1: obviously political willpower, and political willpower is something that's scarce, 358 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:05,360 Speaker 1: scarce in that that thing. And there are people who 359 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:13,040 Speaker 1: just obviously reject anything, um, they think doesn't align with 360 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:17,439 Speaker 1: their agenda. M h you know, people who live for themselves. 361 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:21,320 Speaker 1: I live for me, and I'm gonna die soon, so 362 00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:23,600 Speaker 1: I don't care about that. I don't think that we 363 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:29,720 Speaker 1: can change their mind. Um. You know, however, it is dispiriting, 364 00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:34,760 Speaker 1: I would say, especially because um, you know, places like 365 00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:39,800 Speaker 1: America do contribute to a large of the climate issues 366 00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:45,760 Speaker 1: that when you look at the political How do you 367 00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:50,280 Speaker 1: even describe that? I don't know. I mean I try 368 00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:52,160 Speaker 1: every day on this show to try and figure out 369 00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:55,640 Speaker 1: how to describe it. I don't know how. I don't know. Wow, 370 00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:00,480 Speaker 1: I don't know how you describe it. You will try 371 00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:04,120 Speaker 1: to pick all the glimmers of hope where you can, 372 00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:10,880 Speaker 1: and you know, hope that those in power take some 373 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:14,600 Speaker 1: steps to help the situation. But it's it's hard because 374 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:16,919 Speaker 1: those us any creep and we can't do it alone. 375 00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:23,000 Speaker 1: We really can't. Yeah, maybe we really can't. So yes, 376 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:25,760 Speaker 1: I just I you know, I just want to say, 377 00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:28,439 Speaker 1: you know, as as as we close, I just I 378 00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:31,800 Speaker 1: appreciated the story so much because as people who listen 379 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:34,280 Speaker 1: to Woke a f on a regular basis, no, I 380 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:37,920 Speaker 1: amy of little hope, right, um, and yet I and 381 00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:41,200 Speaker 1: and and yet I am I continue to you know, 382 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:44,840 Speaker 1: rail against the powers that be because I believe that 383 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:48,400 Speaker 1: people have more power than they know. And what I 384 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:51,000 Speaker 1: and what I yeah, and what I loved about your 385 00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:56,440 Speaker 1: story was just you know, again it was it conjured 386 00:28:56,520 --> 00:29:01,160 Speaker 1: so much imagery for me, the ship that was supposedly 387 00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:05,400 Speaker 1: coming to rescue and then I'm thinking about the slave ships, 388 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:09,360 Speaker 1: and I'm thinking about you know, the and what people were. 389 00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:14,400 Speaker 1: They knew obviously because they're marching in captivity, chained, UM, 390 00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:16,880 Speaker 1: that what was meeting them on the other side was 391 00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:20,360 Speaker 1: surely not what they were what they were being forced 392 00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:24,760 Speaker 1: to leave. However, this this your ship, you know, was 393 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:27,320 Speaker 1: saying oh, yeah, come, you know, come on. But then 394 00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:29,640 Speaker 1: you you're seeing this picture of what is on there 395 00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:32,880 Speaker 1: and you're like, I don't want to live on loop. 396 00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:35,280 Speaker 1: I want you know, I want to be a part 397 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:39,200 Speaker 1: of a rebuild, um that is essentially for us and 398 00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:43,120 Speaker 1: by us, right, Um, And this holding onto language. The 399 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:45,920 Speaker 1: last question that I have for you, um is one 400 00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:47,440 Speaker 1: I don't even know if there is an answer for 401 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:51,840 Speaker 1: but I but it it came to my mind for you, Um, 402 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:56,240 Speaker 1: a cam what is the difference between hope and faith? 403 00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:59,760 Speaker 1: You had said that hope you must go through catastrophe 404 00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:03,160 Speaker 1: in order to have and so I'm curious for you 405 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:08,360 Speaker 1: if what the difference is the difference between hope and faith? 406 00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:18,720 Speaker 1: You have faith in that what you hope for comes true. UM. 407 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:26,040 Speaker 1: I think faith is hope. You hope for something, you 408 00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:31,800 Speaker 1: have faith in that something. So I think hope is 409 00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:37,000 Speaker 1: sort of the sorry. Faith is the vehicle for hope 410 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:40,960 Speaker 1: to get from one place to the other. So we're 411 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:45,840 Speaker 1: here right now, it's twenty twenty two, and we have 412 00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:52,440 Speaker 1: some faith in that what we hope for turns out 413 00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:57,000 Speaker 1: to be what is realized. So I think that's how 414 00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:59,640 Speaker 1: I would I would say the difference between hope and faith, 415 00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:10,080 Speaker 1: it's they worked together, they're friends, they're friend um. Um yeah, 416 00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:16,080 Speaker 1: I just again, um akam the story friends listening uh 417 00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:21,560 Speaker 1: is the is the lexicographer and one Tree Island. Um. 418 00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:24,440 Speaker 1: We will put a link to it in the show 419 00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:28,720 Speaker 1: notes so that you can sit back and either listen 420 00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:32,640 Speaker 1: to it or read it. It was an absolute pleasure, 421 00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:36,640 Speaker 1: um to to read. So akam, Alexis, thank you so 422 00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:41,080 Speaker 1: much for joining WOKA. I appreciate you. I appreciate it. 423 00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:49,760 Speaker 1: Thank you. That is it for me today, dear friends 424 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:53,680 Speaker 1: on Woke app as always, power to the people and 425 00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:57,840 Speaker 1: to all the people. Power, get woke and stay woke 426 00:31:57,880 --> 00:31:58,320 Speaker 1: as fuck.