WEBVTT - How Gamers and Category Experts Are Shaping the Creator Economy 0:00:07.040 --> 0:00:11.640 Welcome to Strictly Business, Variety's weekly podcast featuring conversations with 0:00:11.760 --> 0:00:15.640 industry leaders about the business of media and entertainment. I'm 0:00:15.680 --> 0:00:20.480 Cynthia Lyttleton, co editor in chief of Variety. Today's episode 0:00:20.600 --> 0:00:23.520 is a warm up for the can Lion Festival, which 0:00:23.600 --> 0:00:29.720 is all about brands, brands, brands, and of course schmoos, schmooz, schmootz. 0:00:30.320 --> 0:00:34.479 It unfolds from June sixteenth to June twentieth by the 0:00:34.520 --> 0:00:38.640 Seaside in can France. Variety will be there in force. 0:00:39.240 --> 0:00:42.080 I'm going to try to squeeze out some bonus Strictly 0:00:42.120 --> 0:00:46.000 Business episodes from all of the gab fests that Variety 0:00:46.080 --> 0:00:49.559 is facilitating. To set the table. Here, we have a 0:00:49.600 --> 0:00:53.959 discussion about the state of brand deal making for influencers 0:00:54.040 --> 0:00:58.480 and social media creators. These are the hottest properties in 0:00:58.600 --> 0:01:03.000 marketing and advertising right now, ask any CMO. The first 0:01:03.040 --> 0:01:07.880 conversation is with Angelie Hernandez and Jirell Thompson of advertising 0:01:07.920 --> 0:01:13.040 giant Havas. The two discuss their innovative Havas Play venture 0:01:13.200 --> 0:01:17.399 that connects brands with online gaming communities and social media 0:01:17.440 --> 0:01:23.560 creators its next level audience targeting. Hernandez is VP and 0:01:23.640 --> 0:01:27.560 Portfolio lead for Havas Play. Thompson is VP of Gaming 0:01:27.600 --> 0:01:31.320 for Havas Play. This interview was recorded on stage at 0:01:31.400 --> 0:01:36.880 Variety's Entertainment Marketing Summit in Hollywood in April. The havas 0:01:36.880 --> 0:01:40.440 Play pair are followed by a conversation with talent manager 0:01:40.800 --> 0:01:45.520 shab Ozma. Ozma is CEO and founder of Art Collective, 0:01:45.920 --> 0:01:49.880 a talent management firm that specializes in experts who build 0:01:49.960 --> 0:01:54.600 social media businesses rooted in their skills. She gives us 0:01:54.680 --> 0:01:57.680 the talents I view of where the heat is in 0:01:57.720 --> 0:02:02.840 the marketplace for creators. So stick around. That's all coming 0:02:02.920 --> 0:02:18.720 up after this break, and we're back with a conversation 0:02:18.880 --> 0:02:23.320 with havas Play executives Angelie Hernandez and Jirell Thompson. 0:02:23.880 --> 0:02:26.280 Let's start with sort of the thirty thousand foot view 0:02:26.680 --> 0:02:30.520 and talk about what Hobbs Play is and what specifically 0:02:30.560 --> 0:02:33.680 in the area of marketing and branding and fan connections 0:02:33.880 --> 0:02:36.639 really where you plug in uniquely, because an, it's a 0:02:36.720 --> 0:02:39.359 very interesting story and you're really starting to come out 0:02:39.400 --> 0:02:40.400 and talk about it now. 0:02:40.280 --> 0:02:43.640 So yeah, for sure. So we are a specialized vision 0:02:43.800 --> 0:02:48.079 of Havas Media Network, and we really live and breathe 0:02:48.240 --> 0:02:54.799 and focus on building brand consumer experiences at the intersection 0:02:55.080 --> 0:03:00.000 of entertainment culture and connecting the brand to that audio 0:03:00.320 --> 0:03:02.480 or whoever we're trying to speak to in a way 0:03:02.520 --> 0:03:08.079 that's incredibly authentic h and also in a way that 0:03:08.240 --> 0:03:11.360 the brand has the equity to even play in that space. 0:03:11.880 --> 0:03:13.040 Pun intended. 0:03:14.480 --> 0:03:16.320 So, and we really. 0:03:16.080 --> 0:03:22.000 Really truly embody authenticity and really drive home to all 0:03:22.000 --> 0:03:24.840 our brands and our clients that that is that is key, 0:03:25.760 --> 0:03:27.239 and you really have to you have to have the 0:03:27.280 --> 0:03:29.600 equity to play in that space, in that intersection of 0:03:29.600 --> 0:03:32.480 culture and have something to say and contribute to that 0:03:32.880 --> 0:03:33.480 to that space. 0:03:34.400 --> 0:03:36.160 And obviously, I know a big part of how of 0:03:36.240 --> 0:03:39.120 us play is really understanding and having you know, a 0:03:39.480 --> 0:03:43.240 mainstream the world's marketer understand that if you want to 0:03:43.240 --> 0:03:47.400 reach gen Z, you better know gaming. Like it's just 0:03:47.440 --> 0:03:51.760 those two things are are those those lines are absolutely 0:03:52.120 --> 0:03:55.360 you know crossing now and you just and it. And 0:03:55.440 --> 0:03:57.080 it's a hard thing for pet people that are in 0:03:57.120 --> 0:03:59.960 traditional Hollywood, traditional TV and film. It's a hard thing 0:04:00.080 --> 0:04:02.760 to kind of really wrap your head around. But Jarelle, 0:04:02.800 --> 0:04:04.280 I know you've spent a lot of time in this 0:04:04.320 --> 0:04:07.600 community and especially especially that gen Z and what's coming 0:04:07.640 --> 0:04:10.360 after Just how can you talk about just what you 0:04:10.520 --> 0:04:13.120 found that is so important to reach people through that 0:04:13.240 --> 0:04:16.360 combination of gaming and social media creators that you are 0:04:16.400 --> 0:04:17.200 really focused on. 0:04:17.800 --> 0:04:22.240 Yeah, and when we think of again like showing up 0:04:22.279 --> 0:04:25.719 meaningful and making sure that brands are connected to audiences 0:04:25.760 --> 0:04:28.320 in ways that make sense to the community. When we 0:04:28.320 --> 0:04:31.560 think of gen Z one gen Z, when we think 0:04:31.600 --> 0:04:34.360 of like their behaviors and gaming, it's a major part 0:04:34.400 --> 0:04:37.239 of their day. When we think of like their entire 0:04:37.400 --> 0:04:40.200 like media consumption, gaming is a big part of them, 0:04:40.440 --> 0:04:43.600 but aside from just playing video games, it's all about 0:04:43.640 --> 0:04:46.920 the media, Like when we look at the last of us, 0:04:47.440 --> 0:04:50.800 like gaming is taking over different aspects of pop culture. 0:04:51.200 --> 0:04:53.000 So we think of how do you talk to gen Z? 0:04:53.640 --> 0:04:56.200 Part of that is really understanding how are you talking 0:04:56.880 --> 0:04:59.760 to them through gaming as a medium, and how are 0:04:59.760 --> 0:05:02.080 you talking to them in not only a meaningful way, 0:05:02.400 --> 0:05:04.560 but in a way that provides tangible value and in 0:05:04.640 --> 0:05:05.720 a way that's authentic. 0:05:06.160 --> 0:05:09.919 Are you focused on like in game placements activity, so 0:05:10.000 --> 0:05:14.080 when people are actually actively playing or esports where people 0:05:14.080 --> 0:05:17.279 are watching other that kind of gaming, where's the real 0:05:17.440 --> 0:05:20.080 focus for you? In terms of that brand connection that 0:05:20.120 --> 0:05:20.880 you're talking about. 0:05:21.080 --> 0:05:23.159 No, that's actually a great question, and I think a 0:05:23.240 --> 0:05:27.279 misconception today is that like gaming, the whole gaming ecosystem 0:05:27.400 --> 0:05:31.520 is just the gameplay. There's people watching Twitch creators. When 0:05:31.560 --> 0:05:33.320 you look at the likes of like a Kai Sinot, 0:05:33.760 --> 0:05:36.480 like he's transcended the likes of just playing video games 0:05:36.520 --> 0:05:39.560 on Twitch, but he's a celebrity you see is show 0:05:39.640 --> 0:05:40.960 speed is showing up in China. 0:05:41.040 --> 0:05:42.599 He's like an ambassador for them. 0:05:42.839 --> 0:05:45.440 There's ways that you can align with content, like you 0:05:45.440 --> 0:05:47.760 can partner with the likes of like an ign or 0:05:47.800 --> 0:05:51.480 like different sites. There's also in game and game is 0:05:51.520 --> 0:05:54.440 also really big. You see, there's a major partnership between 0:05:54.480 --> 0:05:57.719 Disney and Epic Games. They're going to see Disney IP 0:05:57.920 --> 0:06:01.120 and Disney characters in Fortnite for the foreseeable future as 0:06:01.120 --> 0:06:04.560 they try and turn that into the Disney Digital Parks 0:06:04.560 --> 0:06:05.240 of the future. 0:06:05.760 --> 0:06:08.840 So in terms by Disney is a very big push. 0:06:08.960 --> 0:06:11.640 Can I ask you, is there a premium over watching 0:06:11.720 --> 0:06:14.560 any sports or watching something on Twitch if you can 0:06:14.600 --> 0:06:16.680 reach somebody while they're engaged in gameplay. 0:06:17.080 --> 0:06:21.520 Yeah, in game is actually a very compelling space to 0:06:21.680 --> 0:06:23.880 reach gamers, and I think that's why you see a 0:06:23.880 --> 0:06:27.480 lot of brands really tapping into and really leaning into 0:06:27.520 --> 0:06:31.320 the space and creating these custom environments and with the 0:06:31.440 --> 0:06:34.760 likes of like a Fortnite, a Roadblocks or a Minecraft. 0:06:34.200 --> 0:06:34.719 To reach them. 0:06:35.040 --> 0:06:38.520 And on that note too, I had mentioned about how 0:06:38.560 --> 0:06:42.880 we are also really focused on ensuring that our brands 0:06:42.960 --> 0:06:44.640 have the equity to play in that space. 0:06:44.680 --> 0:06:46.800 And so for from an indus game stick out like 0:06:46.839 --> 0:06:47.600 a sore thumb r. 0:06:47.880 --> 0:06:50.560 So from an in game perspective, as a brand, you 0:06:50.640 --> 0:06:55.800 have to be incredibly cautious that you're not interrupting their experience, 0:06:56.240 --> 0:07:00.320 interrupting their game or even I mean, you can show 0:07:00.400 --> 0:07:02.680 up as a brand, you have no equity to be there, 0:07:02.720 --> 0:07:05.000 and the gamers like why why are they here? And 0:07:05.040 --> 0:07:09.360 then that in and itself interrupts they're gaming like their 0:07:09.400 --> 0:07:13.360 their play. Uh, and so the gamers already turned off 0:07:13.360 --> 0:07:13.720 by it. 0:07:13.760 --> 0:07:17.000 Right, not the kind of brand association exactly. How do 0:07:17.200 --> 0:07:20.160 social media creators kind of plug into this, because as 0:07:20.160 --> 0:07:23.720 I understand, they can almost become ambassadors for games that 0:07:24.000 --> 0:07:29.120 and communities that then create their own little mini ecosystems. 0:07:29.680 --> 0:07:32.560 Yeah, I'll take from a from a really macro perspective, 0:07:32.960 --> 0:07:36.800 I think Drel mentioned this before. You have gaming creators 0:07:36.880 --> 0:07:41.440 now that you know they don't do They don't just play, right, 0:07:41.800 --> 0:07:44.600 It's not that people are going to them to watch 0:07:44.640 --> 0:07:45.600 their twitch streams. 0:07:46.000 --> 0:07:46.320 Now. 0:07:46.440 --> 0:07:50.360 Their twitch streams are inclusive of so many other interests. 0:07:50.400 --> 0:07:54.040 Again a game. We've been saying this for years. Gamers 0:07:54.080 --> 0:07:58.160 aren't a monolith, right. They just don't play games like 0:07:58.480 --> 0:08:01.120 they love music. They're at that center of fashion and 0:08:01.200 --> 0:08:06.480 music and other trends. And so you have these followers, 0:08:06.520 --> 0:08:10.400 and they've created this fandom that their followers look to 0:08:10.440 --> 0:08:13.800 them for all of their content. You have celebrities coming 0:08:13.840 --> 0:08:16.640 into their streams like Kevin Hart that just you know, 0:08:16.880 --> 0:08:19.480 sit in the house all day and it's hours and 0:08:19.560 --> 0:08:24.360 hours of content that are compelling because they have galvanized 0:08:24.400 --> 0:08:28.480 this community around them that want to follow them and 0:08:28.560 --> 0:08:29.440 want to pay attention. 0:08:30.360 --> 0:08:32.320 I got to believe though, in all of this, there 0:08:32.360 --> 0:08:35.319 are brand safety issues. How do you knew that you 0:08:35.360 --> 0:08:37.640 knew that question was coming. How do you weigh who 0:08:37.679 --> 0:08:40.040 to partner with? Do you do you sometimes have to 0:08:40.080 --> 0:08:43.000 take flyers and then just monitor how things are going. 0:08:43.679 --> 0:08:45.360 Yeah, I think a lot of that has to do 0:08:45.480 --> 0:08:47.920 with wet have os play. We have a really in 0:08:47.960 --> 0:08:50.360 depth process where we vet through creators. We have a 0:08:50.400 --> 0:08:52.520 lot of systems in place where you like, do a 0:08:52.520 --> 0:08:54.920 lot of digging. We make sure that we're connecting the 0:08:55.600 --> 0:08:57.840 right brand to the right creators. How we're doing our 0:08:57.880 --> 0:09:00.880 due diligence, sit ensure that like brand safe or if 0:09:00.880 --> 0:09:03.680 they're they're relevant for the brand, because honestly, there are 0:09:03.720 --> 0:09:06.760 some you know, some brands might make sense for certain 0:09:06.840 --> 0:09:09.400 creators who maybe a little bit edgy, might be a 0:09:09.480 --> 0:09:13.760 little bit rescuae, but for some they're like for financial 0:09:13.760 --> 0:09:15.600 brands that we work with, we need to make sure 0:09:15.640 --> 0:09:18.880 that like we honestly match with everyone who is the 0:09:18.920 --> 0:09:21.480 most brand safe and you know, makes sense and it's 0:09:21.480 --> 0:09:22.280 for the right audience. 0:09:22.840 --> 0:09:28.320 Yeah, and obviously anything can happen. Creators are their own 0:09:28.920 --> 0:09:30.000 sort of boss, right. 0:09:29.960 --> 0:09:33.319 You have to warn your clients. Okay, sometimes you might 0:09:33.400 --> 0:09:34.680 have to take a deeper. 0:09:34.840 --> 0:09:38.480 Yes, Oh, the education always has to happen at the beginning, 0:09:38.640 --> 0:09:43.560 at the middle, at the end. It's constant education. But 0:09:43.760 --> 0:09:46.160 you know it's we hold hands and we get through 0:09:46.160 --> 0:09:48.400 it together. But a lot of that process that we 0:09:48.600 --> 0:09:52.959 sort of employ upfront minimizes that. But again, you always 0:09:52.960 --> 0:09:55.880 have to be prepared anything can happen from a macro 0:09:56.000 --> 0:10:01.319 perspective in culture and anything that incentivized as a creator 0:10:01.440 --> 0:10:05.160 just to say something, say they're POV that may not 0:10:05.240 --> 0:10:07.360 align with brand, and so you know, you take care 0:10:07.400 --> 0:10:07.560 of it. 0:10:07.600 --> 0:10:10.079 In that regard to and to Angie's point, I think 0:10:10.080 --> 0:10:13.239 we're at a more mature phase in the creator economy. 0:10:13.559 --> 0:10:16.480 I think again in this in twenty twenty five, a 0:10:16.520 --> 0:10:19.720 lot of creators understand the importance of them being brand 0:10:19.760 --> 0:10:22.840 safe entities to help represent these brands. And not only 0:10:22.880 --> 0:10:25.800 are they just creators, They're not just me the streamer. 0:10:25.880 --> 0:10:29.719 They're representing the brands like on behalf of them as 0:10:29.760 --> 0:10:33.640 a business partner, and there's a certain level of decorum 0:10:33.679 --> 0:10:35.640 and a certain way that they need to carry themselves 0:10:36.000 --> 0:10:38.760 that is important for not only them, but also for 0:10:38.840 --> 0:10:40.480 the clients that they represent. 0:10:40.960 --> 0:10:42.800 Do you have a, for instance, for me, of a 0:10:43.280 --> 0:10:47.280 brand that really had an effective, an effective placement or 0:10:47.280 --> 0:10:50.199 an effective partnership that moved the needle for them all 0:10:50.240 --> 0:10:53.440 the way down to selling whatever goods or services they 0:10:53.440 --> 0:10:54.199 were trying to market. 0:10:56.440 --> 0:10:58.480 We had a very interesting one. 0:10:58.480 --> 0:11:02.640 This is for major tire company in partnership with a 0:11:02.679 --> 0:11:08.400 major film studio, bloom Drive right, Yeah, So we were 0:11:08.440 --> 0:11:11.720 promoting a film so think Fast and the Furious, but 0:11:11.920 --> 0:11:15.040 less emphasis on family and more connected to a really 0:11:15.720 --> 0:11:21.800 popular video game. Yeah, and they were up against head 0:11:21.800 --> 0:11:26.920 winds from Barbenheimer basically, and they were very nervous about 0:11:27.960 --> 0:11:30.719 galvanizing the gamer community to come and check out the 0:11:30.800 --> 0:11:34.520 movie again considering all of the different, you know, challenges 0:11:34.559 --> 0:11:36.440 they were up against. So they what they tasked us 0:11:36.480 --> 0:11:41.960 with was coming up with a really immersive plan tapping 0:11:42.040 --> 0:11:46.320 into basically the star of the film to do content 0:11:46.800 --> 0:11:48.960 to really reach out to gamers and really talk to 0:11:48.960 --> 0:11:51.280 them and get them excited, and to type them up 0:11:51.320 --> 0:11:51.960 about the film. 0:11:52.400 --> 0:11:55.000 And honestly, like it. 0:11:55.000 --> 0:11:57.920 Was such a huge success in getting the gaming the 0:11:57.920 --> 0:12:00.600 gamers excited. We had people on streams Twitch saying I 0:12:00.600 --> 0:12:03.120 saw the movie two and three times and it resulted 0:12:03.200 --> 0:12:07.040 in twelve years time spent with all of the video 0:12:07.080 --> 0:12:10.000 content that we did. And you think like a decade 0:12:10.080 --> 0:12:13.000 worth of time spent watching the videos and we only 0:12:13.000 --> 0:12:14.200 did about six videos. 0:12:14.320 --> 0:12:17.200 So you must have loved that report sending in that 0:12:17.280 --> 0:12:21.280 report here we gave you with plage. But given that 0:12:21.360 --> 0:12:23.520 so much of this activity, if not almost every bit 0:12:23.559 --> 0:12:26.720 of it, is digital, you can really track right down. 0:12:26.880 --> 0:12:29.880 You can probably track the activity right down to did 0:12:29.960 --> 0:12:31.920 they go into the showroom and buy the truck or 0:12:31.920 --> 0:12:35.760 by the tires or it's got to be really enlightening 0:12:36.120 --> 0:12:37.080 and really fascinating. 0:12:37.720 --> 0:12:40.120 Yeah, there was a lot of back end measurement that 0:12:40.160 --> 0:12:43.000 we had that allowed us to see like where like 0:12:43.080 --> 0:12:45.560 some of the regions that you know, we're viewing the 0:12:45.600 --> 0:12:49.440 content the most. And I think as we went on 0:12:49.520 --> 0:12:51.720 throughout the campaign, we started to learn and we started 0:12:51.720 --> 0:12:54.400 to iterate, and it allowed us to tailor the content 0:12:54.559 --> 0:12:57.680 more so that we were garnering more engagement and becoming 0:12:57.679 --> 0:12:59.040 smarter towards the end of it. 0:12:59.400 --> 0:13:01.480 What was the time I'm framed for this was this? 0:13:01.720 --> 0:13:04.120 Was this play out over weeks? Over months? 0:13:04.960 --> 0:13:08.520 Yeah, it was eight weeks. That's a lot. 0:13:08.840 --> 0:13:10.920 One thing I know as we're wrapping up here, I 0:13:10.960 --> 0:13:14.280 know very important to use women, both women gaming women 0:13:14.440 --> 0:13:17.320 creators and and just in the last couple of months, 0:13:17.360 --> 0:13:19.880 I've been to conferences and events and seeing that like 0:13:20.440 --> 0:13:26.240 social media has become a entrepreneurial engine for women and 0:13:26.840 --> 0:13:29.120 women that would not you wouldn't think might not be 0:13:29.120 --> 0:13:31.080 in a position to launch a company, but so many 0:13:31.080 --> 0:13:34.120 things are coming out of kitchens and living rooms and garages, 0:13:34.160 --> 0:13:36.680 and it's just it's just fascinating. What are you finding 0:13:36.800 --> 0:13:39.800 is about brands that want to reach young women And 0:13:39.840 --> 0:13:42.320 how is this Like how is this boon that social 0:13:42.320 --> 0:13:46.240 media has created for people to do direct to consumer marketing? 0:13:46.400 --> 0:13:48.880 Like how how has that changed the game for big 0:13:48.920 --> 0:13:50.480 brands that want to reach those people. 0:13:50.760 --> 0:13:56.120 Yeah, actually we were talking about this the other day. Now, 0:13:56.440 --> 0:14:01.319 creators more than ever, have a lot of power. They 0:14:01.320 --> 0:14:04.240 have a lot of buying power within their followers, right, 0:14:04.320 --> 0:14:07.000 you can gavanize their followers to purchase. 0:14:07.960 --> 0:14:09.280 But they also have a lot. 0:14:09.120 --> 0:14:11.920 More control over their careers. They have a lot more 0:14:12.000 --> 0:14:14.600 control over where they even make money. Right, and they 0:14:14.640 --> 0:14:18.440 don't necessarily have to have a brand partnership, right, they 0:14:18.520 --> 0:14:20.760 can make money on their own. There are all these 0:14:20.800 --> 0:14:24.720 platforms now that allow them to do that. You also 0:14:24.920 --> 0:14:29.320 have companies, whether they're brands or even social platforms that 0:14:29.480 --> 0:14:33.080 turn to them because now not only are they experts 0:14:33.120 --> 0:14:36.760 in their what their audience likes to see and hear 0:14:37.280 --> 0:14:40.960 and talk about, they're also experts on the platform themselves. 0:14:41.040 --> 0:14:44.680 Like the creators know how to use TikTok and Instagram, 0:14:44.880 --> 0:14:48.680 they know the algorithm, they know they're tapped into their 0:14:48.720 --> 0:14:52.400 content so so much that they understand what's going to 0:14:52.440 --> 0:14:56.040 move the needle. And so now it's almost like their 0:14:56.040 --> 0:14:59.400 resume is gigantic, right, And so that gives them the 0:14:59.480 --> 0:15:02.560 power to say, you know what, your brand doesn't align 0:15:02.640 --> 0:15:06.360 with my values. Your brand doesn't probably speak to my audience, 0:15:06.440 --> 0:15:08.640 and so they have a lot more power to sort. 0:15:08.440 --> 0:15:10.400 Of say no, not sort of say no. 0:15:12.120 --> 0:15:16.520 And so it's something to contend with, but nothing that 0:15:16.520 --> 0:15:20.520 that is a detriment. I think it actually it benefits us, 0:15:20.520 --> 0:15:24.040 It benefits brands because then you really know that once 0:15:24.080 --> 0:15:26.880 you pick a creator and that creator picks you back, 0:15:27.000 --> 0:15:29.800 that's probably going to be the start of a beautiful 0:15:30.000 --> 0:15:32.760 relationship that we would want to continue, right, It's not 0:15:32.800 --> 0:15:33.640 a flash in the pan. 0:15:34.760 --> 0:15:36.520 We always want brands. 0:15:36.080 --> 0:15:39.200 To continue that relationship with the creators that they choose. 0:15:39.200 --> 0:15:42.600 All little mini marketers on their own by definition of 0:15:42.640 --> 0:15:45.240 what they do. Here in our waning seconds, what are 0:15:45.240 --> 0:15:49.200 you excited about, whether something in gaming or a functionality 0:15:49.280 --> 0:15:52.040 or a capability coming to havos play, what's exciting? 0:15:52.240 --> 0:15:54.479 We're super excited about our gaming capabilities. 0:15:54.840 --> 0:15:58.560 I think, as Ang alluded to earlier, again, what we 0:15:58.600 --> 0:16:02.640 pride ourselves on and haas is about being meaningful. And 0:16:02.800 --> 0:16:07.200 I made a comment earlier this month about like, there's 0:16:07.280 --> 0:16:11.080 so many entryways for brands and clients to enter into gaming, 0:16:11.560 --> 0:16:15.200 and you need a spirit guide to help you find 0:16:15.520 --> 0:16:18.240 you know where those appropriate entry points are and to 0:16:18.320 --> 0:16:20.920 match you with some of the appropriate tactics so that 0:16:20.960 --> 0:16:24.600 you're showing up authentically, you're providing tangible value because gamers 0:16:24.600 --> 0:16:27.560 are a very discerning audience and they smell bullshit from 0:16:27.600 --> 0:16:30.440 a mile away, So you need someone who is an expert, 0:16:30.440 --> 0:16:33.280 who is also very immersed and well versed in the 0:16:33.280 --> 0:16:36.240 community to help guide these clients and to help match 0:16:36.240 --> 0:16:38.840 them with you know, what are the right opportunities and 0:16:38.960 --> 0:16:41.880 where the right points where we can like match you 0:16:41.880 --> 0:16:44.360 with your business goals and also show up cool and 0:16:44.480 --> 0:16:45.160 relevant brand. 0:16:45.400 --> 0:16:47.240 Thank you both for being here and sharing all this. 0:16:47.400 --> 0:16:48.720 Thank you so much, guys. 0:16:48.840 --> 0:16:49.240 Thank you. 0:16:50.000 --> 0:16:53.640 Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back with shab Ozma 0:16:53.720 --> 0:17:03.600 of Art Collective after this break. And we're back now 0:17:03.680 --> 0:17:08.000 we'll hear from our second guest. Shab Ozma is founder 0:17:08.040 --> 0:17:11.960 and CEO of Art Collective. She has a diverse background 0:17:12.000 --> 0:17:17.000 in talent management, unscripted TV production and brand management. All 0:17:17.040 --> 0:17:19.919 of those skills come together in her role leading the 0:17:19.960 --> 0:17:24.680 company that is part talent agency and part content development hub. 0:17:25.000 --> 0:17:28.320 For the long list of social media creators and expert 0:17:28.359 --> 0:17:32.359 influencers on her roster. Here she talks about how deals 0:17:32.400 --> 0:17:36.439 get done, how creators weigh brand opportunities, and why some 0:17:36.600 --> 0:17:40.760 social media superstars are turning down offers for traditional TV. 0:17:41.600 --> 0:17:46.560 Shab Ozma, CEO and founder of ARC Collective, a talent 0:17:46.640 --> 0:17:50.080 management and entertainment company, Thanks so much for joining me. 0:17:50.680 --> 0:17:51.960 Thank you so much for having me. 0:17:53.600 --> 0:17:58.240 The entertainment industry becomes even more and more interested and 0:17:58.840 --> 0:18:05.240 intertwined with the incredible metastasizing world of influencers and social 0:18:05.280 --> 0:18:09.320 media creators, people who are really making a living on 0:18:09.520 --> 0:18:13.040 non traditional media channels. It's one of the biggest things 0:18:13.400 --> 0:18:16.479 that is growing and in influencing the entertainment space, and 0:18:16.520 --> 0:18:19.400 it is certainly capturing attention in Hollywood at a time 0:18:19.440 --> 0:18:23.040 when everybody is looking at alternative ways to reach audience, 0:18:24.040 --> 0:18:27.399 you know, less costly ways to produce content. There's just 0:18:27.440 --> 0:18:30.159 a lot of trends that are converging. Where are you 0:18:30.240 --> 0:18:34.520 seeing the opportunities for not only revenue generating opportunities, but 0:18:35.080 --> 0:18:38.240 image burnishing and career burnishing opportunities. 0:18:39.040 --> 0:18:42.000 Yeah, so we really are focused a lot right now 0:18:42.040 --> 0:18:45.320 on ownership. You know, there's a time and a place 0:18:45.400 --> 0:18:49.679 for traditional television, but that is breaking, it's gridlocked, and 0:18:49.800 --> 0:18:52.320 digital natives are creating content that is just as well 0:18:52.359 --> 0:18:55.320 produced as we know, as we've seen on television, and 0:18:55.359 --> 0:18:58.840 they can take bigger swings podcasts for example, and other 0:18:59.080 --> 0:19:01.920 longer form content or blurring the lines between what is 0:19:02.000 --> 0:19:06.480 digital media and what is fit for TV. And we 0:19:06.720 --> 0:19:10.560 have been really supporting our clients in owning what they're 0:19:10.600 --> 0:19:13.920 creating because in traditional media that just isn't possible. When 0:19:13.960 --> 0:19:17.200 you're on unscripted talent like moletum my clients, they're on 0:19:17.320 --> 0:19:19.719 networks that own the shows that they're creating and all 0:19:19.720 --> 0:19:23.040 the merchandising that goes along with that. When you're creating 0:19:23.080 --> 0:19:26.239 content on a digital platform, you get to own that 0:19:26.320 --> 0:19:29.720 content and monetize it in many different ways. And that's 0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:33.080 why not every influencer is really looking to be in 0:19:33.160 --> 0:19:37.680 traditional entertainment traditional TV that going that route because they 0:19:37.760 --> 0:19:41.040 understand the power that they hold within their creator community. 0:19:41.680 --> 0:19:43.919 And so for us, we're really nurturing that in many ways, 0:19:43.960 --> 0:19:46.359 we really have found there's a flywheel that our talent 0:19:46.440 --> 0:19:49.640 and sort of isn't the nucleus. The nucleus of this flywheel, 0:19:49.640 --> 0:19:55.040 which is podcasts and streaming, end courses and live events, publishing, 0:19:55.400 --> 0:19:58.080 consumer products, all the things that they get to retain 0:19:58.480 --> 0:20:01.959 ownership in because it's their content and they own the content. 0:20:02.320 --> 0:20:04.679 Let me ask you of a hypothetical. You have a 0:20:04.720 --> 0:20:07.520 client that is really making waves in a particular space, 0:20:07.880 --> 0:20:11.840 a sector, genre, and you know that call comes in 0:20:12.080 --> 0:20:14.480 for a television deal with a you know, with a 0:20:14.600 --> 0:20:17.520 for an amount, an upfront amount that you that your 0:20:17.560 --> 0:20:20.480 client may have never seen that much money before. How 0:20:20.480 --> 0:20:23.560 does that conversation go when you're trying to decide what's 0:20:23.640 --> 0:20:26.719 best for the long term and the ownership and all 0:20:26.720 --> 0:20:27.840 the things you just mentioned. 0:20:28.520 --> 0:20:30.040 And we get those all the time and at the 0:20:30.119 --> 0:20:31.600 end of the day, but it's not taking away from 0:20:31.640 --> 0:20:35.280 what they currently have own and have built. Then they're 0:20:35.320 --> 0:20:37.200 happy to be I mean, we have clients who would 0:20:37.240 --> 0:20:41.840 love to be on the on the major networks, cable networks, Netflix, 0:20:41.840 --> 0:20:44.719 streaming platforms like that, and we are finding that it's 0:20:44.760 --> 0:20:47.000 a hybrid. We feel like there's the opportunity for them 0:20:47.040 --> 0:20:50.040 to be on those platforms because it is widening the 0:20:50.080 --> 0:20:52.159 aperture and they're getting in front of an audience that 0:20:52.200 --> 0:20:54.840 maybe isn't as familiar with them. And so as long 0:20:54.880 --> 0:20:56.959 as we can carve out the things that are pre 0:20:57.000 --> 0:20:59.720 existing that they currently have ownership in, and this is 0:21:00.200 --> 0:21:01.800 from that, and we get that all the time, and 0:21:01.840 --> 0:21:06.280 we're able to the networks. Now they understand the power 0:21:06.400 --> 0:21:10.000 that these influencers have and they're willing to negotiate in 0:21:10.040 --> 0:21:12.720 a greater terms that they may not have before because 0:21:13.080 --> 0:21:16.600 typically in the past you're casting unknowns in the unscripted space. 0:21:17.000 --> 0:21:20.000 These are now known entities that have a massive platform 0:21:20.080 --> 0:21:23.600 that the streaming platforms and cable networks want to tap into. 0:21:24.359 --> 0:21:26.920 And so it gives the talent on the influencers side 0:21:26.920 --> 0:21:29.920 a lot more leverage than ever before. We don't really 0:21:29.920 --> 0:21:34.320 represent influencers at my company. It's experts who have a 0:21:34.520 --> 0:21:38.880 real focused area of expertise, and then they have influence, 0:21:39.160 --> 0:21:41.800 whether that's through publishing, whether that's through television, whether that's 0:21:41.800 --> 0:21:45.720 through social media. And then you know what's happening now 0:21:45.760 --> 0:21:48.080 more and more is you're seeing brands because right now, 0:21:48.119 --> 0:21:50.440 as you said, our industry is in a really interesting 0:21:50.480 --> 0:21:54.320 place right now, brands more than ever, they're more interested 0:21:54.359 --> 0:21:57.520 in the influence than they are the platform. And so 0:21:57.720 --> 0:21:59.919 the day and age where you it's all about what 0:22:00.040 --> 0:22:03.440 TV credits you had, and we would hype major network, 0:22:03.480 --> 0:22:07.040 you know, ABC, NBC network. Right now it's like it's 0:22:07.080 --> 0:22:09.280 more about what their present with their social with their 0:22:09.320 --> 0:22:12.800 platform is where the greatest influence, where the influence is 0:22:12.840 --> 0:22:14.640