Speaker 1: Welcome to Strictly Business, Variety's weekly podcast featuring conversations with
Speaker 1: industry leaders about the business of media and entertainment. I'm
Speaker 1: Cynthia Lyttleton, co editor in chief of Variety. Today's episode
Speaker 1: is a warm up for the can Lion Festival, which
Speaker 1: is all about brands, brands, brands, and of course schmoos, schmooz, schmootz.
Speaker 1: It unfolds from June sixteenth to June twentieth by the
Speaker 1: Seaside in can France. Variety will be there in force.
Speaker 1: I'm going to try to squeeze out some bonus Strictly
Speaker 1: Business episodes from all of the gab fests that Variety
Speaker 1: is facilitating. To set the table. Here, we have a
Speaker 1: discussion about the state of brand deal making for influencers
Speaker 1: and social media creators. These are the hottest properties in
Speaker 1: marketing and advertising right now, ask any CMO. The first
Speaker 1: conversation is with Angelie Hernandez and Jirell Thompson of advertising
Speaker 1: giant Havas. The two discuss their innovative Havas Play venture
Speaker 1: that connects brands with online gaming communities and social media
Speaker 1: creators its next level audience targeting. Hernandez is VP and
Speaker 1: Portfolio lead for Havas Play. Thompson is VP of Gaming
Speaker 1: for Havas Play. This interview was recorded on stage at
Speaker 1: Variety's Entertainment Marketing Summit in Hollywood in April. The havas
Speaker 1: Play pair are followed by a conversation with talent manager
Speaker 1: shab Ozma. Ozma is CEO and founder of Art Collective,
Speaker 1: a talent management firm that specializes in experts who build
Speaker 1: social media businesses rooted in their skills. She gives us
Speaker 1: the talents I view of where the heat is in
Speaker 1: the marketplace for creators. So stick around. That's all coming
Speaker 1: up after this break, and we're back with a conversation
Speaker 1: with havas Play executives Angelie Hernandez and Jirell Thompson.
Speaker 2: Let's start with sort of the thirty thousand foot view
Speaker 2: and talk about what Hobbs Play is and what specifically
Speaker 2: in the area of marketing and branding and fan connections
Speaker 2: really where you plug in uniquely, because an, it's a
Speaker 2: very interesting story and you're really starting to come out
Speaker 2: and talk about it now.
Speaker 3: So yeah, for sure. So we are a specialized vision
Speaker 3: of Havas Media Network, and we really live and breathe
Speaker 3: and focus on building brand consumer experiences at the intersection
Speaker 3: of entertainment culture and connecting the brand to that audio
Speaker 3: or whoever we're trying to speak to in a way
Speaker 3: that's incredibly authentic h and also in a way that
Speaker 3: the brand has the equity to even play in that space.
Speaker 4: Pun intended.
Speaker 2: So, and we really.
Speaker 3: Really truly embody authenticity and really drive home to all
Speaker 3: our brands and our clients that that is that is key,
Speaker 3: and you really have to you have to have the
Speaker 3: equity to play in that space, in that intersection of
Speaker 3: culture and have something to say and contribute to that
Speaker 3: to that space.
Speaker 2: And obviously, I know a big part of how of
Speaker 2: us play is really understanding and having you know, a
Speaker 2: mainstream the world's marketer understand that if you want to
Speaker 2: reach gen Z, you better know gaming. Like it's just
Speaker 2: those two things are are those those lines are absolutely
Speaker 2: you know crossing now and you just and it. And
Speaker 2: it's a hard thing for pet people that are in
Speaker 2: traditional Hollywood, traditional TV and film. It's a hard thing
Speaker 2: to kind of really wrap your head around. But Jarelle,
Speaker 2: I know you've spent a lot of time in this
Speaker 2: community and especially especially that gen Z and what's coming
Speaker 2: after Just how can you talk about just what you
Speaker 2: found that is so important to reach people through that
Speaker 2: combination of gaming and social media creators that you are
Speaker 2: really focused on.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and when we think of again like showing up
Speaker 5: meaningful and making sure that brands are connected to audiences
Speaker 5: in ways that make sense to the community. When we
Speaker 5: think of gen Z one gen Z, when we think
Speaker 5: of like their behaviors and gaming, it's a major part
Speaker 5: of their day. When we think of like their entire
Speaker 5: like media consumption, gaming is a big part of them,
Speaker 5: but aside from just playing video games, it's all about
Speaker 5: the media, Like when we look at the last of us,
Speaker 5: like gaming is taking over different aspects of pop culture.
Speaker 5: So we think of how do you talk to gen Z?
Speaker 5: Part of that is really understanding how are you talking
Speaker 5: to them through gaming as a medium, and how are
Speaker 5: you talking to them in not only a meaningful way,
Speaker 5: but in a way that provides tangible value and in
Speaker 5: a way that's authentic.
Speaker 2: Are you focused on like in game placements activity, so
Speaker 2: when people are actually actively playing or esports where people
Speaker 2: are watching other that kind of gaming, where's the real
Speaker 2: focus for you? In terms of that brand connection that
Speaker 2: you're talking about.
Speaker 5: No, that's actually a great question, and I think a
Speaker 5: misconception today is that like gaming, the whole gaming ecosystem
Speaker 5: is just the gameplay. There's people watching Twitch creators. When
Speaker 5: you look at the likes of like a Kai Sinot,
Speaker 5: like he's transcended the likes of just playing video games
Speaker 5: on Twitch, but he's a celebrity you see is show
Speaker 5: speed is showing up in China.
Speaker 4: He's like an ambassador for them.
Speaker 5: There's ways that you can align with content, like you
Speaker 5: can partner with the likes of like an ign or
Speaker 5: like different sites. There's also in game and game is
Speaker 5: also really big. You see, there's a major partnership between
Speaker 5: Disney and Epic Games. They're going to see Disney IP
Speaker 5: and Disney characters in Fortnite for the foreseeable future as
Speaker 5: they try and turn that into the Disney Digital Parks
Speaker 5: of the future.
Speaker 2: So in terms by Disney is a very big push.
Speaker 2: Can I ask you, is there a premium over watching
Speaker 2: any sports or watching something on Twitch if you can
Speaker 2: reach somebody while they're engaged in gameplay.
Speaker 5: Yeah, in game is actually a very compelling space to
Speaker 5: reach gamers, and I think that's why you see a
Speaker 5: lot of brands really tapping into and really leaning into
Speaker 5: the space and creating these custom environments and with the
Speaker 5: likes of like a Fortnite, a Roadblocks or a Minecraft.
Speaker 4: To reach them.
Speaker 3: And on that note too, I had mentioned about how
Speaker 3: we are also really focused on ensuring that our brands
Speaker 3: have the equity to play in that space.
Speaker 2: And so for from an indus game stick out like
Speaker 2: a sore thumb r.
Speaker 3: So from an in game perspective, as a brand, you
Speaker 3: have to be incredibly cautious that you're not interrupting their experience,
Speaker 3: interrupting their game or even I mean, you can show
Speaker 3: up as a brand, you have no equity to be there,
Speaker 3: and the gamers like why why are they here? And
Speaker 3: then that in and itself interrupts they're gaming like their
Speaker 3: their play. Uh, and so the gamers already turned off
Speaker 3: by it.
Speaker 2: Right, not the kind of brand association exactly. How do
Speaker 2: social media creators kind of plug into this, because as
Speaker 2: I understand, they can almost become ambassadors for games that
Speaker 2: and communities that then create their own little mini ecosystems.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll take from a from a really macro perspective,
Speaker 3: I think Drel mentioned this before. You have gaming creators
Speaker 3: now that you know they don't do They don't just play, right,
Speaker 3: It's not that people are going to them to watch
Speaker 3: their twitch streams.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 3: Their twitch streams are inclusive of so many other interests.
Speaker 3: Again a game. We've been saying this for years. Gamers
Speaker 3: aren't a monolith, right. They just don't play games like
Speaker 3: they love music. They're at that center of fashion and
Speaker 3: music and other trends. And so you have these followers,
Speaker 3: and they've created this fandom that their followers look to
Speaker 3: them for all of their content. You have celebrities coming
Speaker 3: into their streams like Kevin Hart that just you know,
Speaker 3: sit in the house all day and it's hours and
Speaker 3: hours of content that are compelling because they have galvanized
Speaker 3: this community around them that want to follow them and
Speaker 3: want to pay attention.
Speaker 2: I got to believe though, in all of this, there
Speaker 2: are brand safety issues. How do you knew that you
Speaker 2: knew that question was coming. How do you weigh who
Speaker 2: to partner with? Do you do you sometimes have to
Speaker 2: take flyers and then just monitor how things are going.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think a lot of that has to do
Speaker 5: with wet have os play. We have a really in
Speaker 5: depth process where we vet through creators. We have a
Speaker 5: lot of systems in place where you like, do a
Speaker 5: lot of digging. We make sure that we're connecting the
Speaker 5: right brand to the right creators. How we're doing our
Speaker 5: due diligence, sit ensure that like brand safe or if
Speaker 5: they're they're relevant for the brand, because honestly, there are
Speaker 5: some you know, some brands might make sense for certain
Speaker 5: creators who maybe a little bit edgy, might be a
Speaker 5: little bit rescuae, but for some they're like for financial
Speaker 5: brands that we work with, we need to make sure
Speaker 5: that like we honestly match with everyone who is the
Speaker 5: most brand safe and you know, makes sense and it's
Speaker 5: for the right audience.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and obviously anything can happen. Creators are their own
Speaker 3: sort of boss, right.
Speaker 2: You have to warn your clients. Okay, sometimes you might
Speaker 2: have to take a deeper.
Speaker 3: Yes, Oh, the education always has to happen at the beginning,
Speaker 3: at the middle, at the end. It's constant education. But
Speaker 3: you know it's we hold hands and we get through
Speaker 3: it together. But a lot of that process that we
Speaker 3: sort of employ upfront minimizes that. But again, you always
Speaker 3: have to be prepared anything can happen from a macro
Speaker 3: perspective in culture and anything that incentivized as a creator
Speaker 3: just to say something, say they're POV that may not
Speaker 3: align with brand, and so you know, you take care
Speaker 3: of it.
Speaker 5: In that regard to and to Angie's point, I think
Speaker 5: we're at a more mature phase in the creator economy.
Speaker 5: I think again in this in twenty twenty five, a
Speaker 5: lot of creators understand the importance of them being brand
Speaker 5: safe entities to help represent these brands. And not only
Speaker 5: are they just creators, They're not just me the streamer.
Speaker 5: They're representing the brands like on behalf of them as
Speaker 5: a business partner, and there's a certain level of decorum
Speaker 5: and a certain way that they need to carry themselves
Speaker 5: that is important for not only them, but also for
Speaker 5: the clients that they represent.
Speaker 2: Do you have a, for instance, for me, of a
Speaker 2: brand that really had an effective, an effective placement or
Speaker 2: an effective partnership that moved the needle for them all
Speaker 2: the way down to selling whatever goods or services they
Speaker 2: were trying to market.
Speaker 4: We had a very interesting one.
Speaker 5: This is for major tire company in partnership with a
Speaker 5: major film studio, bloom Drive right, Yeah, So we were
Speaker 5: promoting a film so think Fast and the Furious, but
Speaker 5: less emphasis on family and more connected to a really
Speaker 5: popular video game. Yeah, and they were up against head
Speaker 5: winds from Barbenheimer basically, and they were very nervous about
Speaker 5: galvanizing the gamer community to come and check out the
Speaker 5: movie again considering all of the different, you know, challenges
Speaker 5: they were up against. So they what they tasked us
Speaker 5: with was coming up with a really immersive plan tapping
Speaker 5: into basically the star of the film to do content
Speaker 5: to really reach out to gamers and really talk to
Speaker 5: them and get them excited, and to type them up
Speaker 5: about the film.
Speaker 4: And honestly, like it.
Speaker 5: Was such a huge success in getting the gaming the
Speaker 5: gamers excited. We had people on streams Twitch saying I
Speaker 5: saw the movie two and three times and it resulted
Speaker 5: in twelve years time spent with all of the video
Speaker 5: content that we did. And you think like a decade
Speaker 5: worth of time spent watching the videos and we only
Speaker 5: did about six videos.
Speaker 2: So you must have loved that report sending in that
Speaker 2: report here we gave you with plage. But given that
Speaker 2: so much of this activity, if not almost every bit
Speaker 2: of it, is digital, you can really track right down.
Speaker 2: You can probably track the activity right down to did
Speaker 2: they go into the showroom and buy the truck or
Speaker 2: by the tires or it's got to be really enlightening
Speaker 2: and really fascinating.
Speaker 5: Yeah, there was a lot of back end measurement that
Speaker 5: we had that allowed us to see like where like
Speaker 5: some of the regions that you know, we're viewing the
Speaker 5: content the most. And I think as we went on
Speaker 5: throughout the campaign, we started to learn and we started
Speaker 5: to iterate, and it allowed us to tailor the content
Speaker 5: more so that we were garnering more engagement and becoming
Speaker 5: smarter towards the end of it.
Speaker 2: What was the time I'm framed for this was this?
Speaker 2: Was this play out over weeks? Over months?
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was eight weeks. That's a lot.
Speaker 2: One thing I know as we're wrapping up here, I
Speaker 2: know very important to use women, both women gaming women
Speaker 2: creators and and just in the last couple of months,
Speaker 2: I've been to conferences and events and seeing that like
Speaker 2: social media has become a entrepreneurial engine for women and
Speaker 2: women that would not you wouldn't think might not be
Speaker 2: in a position to launch a company, but so many
Speaker 2: things are coming out of kitchens and living rooms and garages,
Speaker 2: and it's just it's just fascinating. What are you finding
Speaker 2: is about brands that want to reach young women And
Speaker 2: how is this Like how is this boon that social
Speaker 2: media has created for people to do direct to consumer marketing?
Speaker 2: Like how how has that changed the game for big
Speaker 2: brands that want to reach those people.
Speaker 3: Yeah, actually we were talking about this the other day. Now,
Speaker 3: creators more than ever, have a lot of power. They
Speaker 3: have a lot of buying power within their followers, right,
Speaker 3: you can gavanize their followers to purchase.
Speaker 2: But they also have a lot.
Speaker 3: More control over their careers. They have a lot more
Speaker 3: control over where they even make money. Right, and they
Speaker 3: don't necessarily have to have a brand partnership, right, they
Speaker 3: can make money on their own. There are all these
Speaker 3: platforms now that allow them to do that. You also
Speaker 3: have companies, whether they're brands or even social platforms that
Speaker 3: turn to them because now not only are they experts
Speaker 3: in their what their audience likes to see and hear
Speaker 3: and talk about, they're also experts on the platform themselves.
Speaker 3: Like the creators know how to use TikTok and Instagram,
Speaker 3: they know the algorithm, they know they're tapped into their
Speaker 3: content so so much that they understand what's going to
Speaker 3: move the needle. And so now it's almost like their
Speaker 3: resume is gigantic, right, And so that gives them the
Speaker 3: power to say, you know what, your brand doesn't align
Speaker 3: with my values. Your brand doesn't probably speak to my audience,
Speaker 3: and so they have a lot more power to sort.
Speaker 2: Of say no, not sort of say no.
Speaker 3: And so it's something to contend with, but nothing that
Speaker 3: that is a detriment. I think it actually it benefits us,
Speaker 3: It benefits brands because then you really know that once
Speaker 3: you pick a creator and that creator picks you back,
Speaker 3: that's probably going to be the start of a beautiful
Speaker 3: relationship that we would want to continue, right, It's not
Speaker 3: a flash in the pan.
Speaker 2: We always want brands.
Speaker 3: To continue that relationship with the creators that they choose.
Speaker 2: All little mini marketers on their own by definition of
Speaker 2: what they do. Here in our waning seconds, what are
Speaker 2: you excited about, whether something in gaming or a functionality
Speaker 2: or a capability coming to havos play, what's exciting?
Speaker 4: We're super excited about our gaming capabilities.
Speaker 5: I think, as Ang alluded to earlier, again, what we
Speaker 5: pride ourselves on and haas is about being meaningful. And
Speaker 5: I made a comment earlier this month about like, there's
Speaker 5: so many entryways for brands and clients to enter into gaming,
Speaker 5: and you need a spirit guide to help you find
Speaker 5: you know where those appropriate entry points are and to
Speaker 5: match you with some of the appropriate tactics so that
Speaker 5: you're showing up authentically, you're providing tangible value because gamers
Speaker 5: are a very discerning audience and they smell bullshit from
Speaker 5: a mile away, So you need someone who is an expert,
Speaker 5: who is also very immersed and well versed in the
Speaker 5: community to help guide these clients and to help match
Speaker 5: them with you know, what are the right opportunities and
Speaker 5: where the right points where we can like match you
Speaker 5: with your business goals and also show up cool and
Speaker 5: relevant brand.
Speaker 2: Thank you both for being here and sharing all this.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much, guys.
Speaker 5: Thank you.
Speaker 1: Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back with shab Ozma
Speaker 1: of Art Collective after this break. And we're back now
Speaker 1: we'll hear from our second guest. Shab Ozma is founder
Speaker 1: and CEO of Art Collective. She has a diverse background
Speaker 1: in talent management, unscripted TV production and brand management. All
Speaker 1: of those skills come together in her role leading the
Speaker 1: company that is part talent agency and part content development hub.
Speaker 1: For the long list of social media creators and expert
Speaker 1: influencers on her roster. Here she talks about how deals
Speaker 1: get done, how creators weigh brand opportunities, and why some
Speaker 1: social media superstars are turning down offers for traditional TV.
Speaker 1: Shab Ozma, CEO and founder of ARC Collective, a talent
Speaker 1: management and entertainment company, Thanks so much for joining me.
Speaker 6: Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 2: The entertainment industry becomes even more and more interested and
Speaker 2: intertwined with the incredible metastasizing world of influencers and social
Speaker 2: media creators, people who are really making a living on
Speaker 2: non traditional media channels. It's one of the biggest things
Speaker 2: that is growing and in influencing the entertainment space, and
Speaker 2: it is certainly capturing attention in Hollywood at a time
Speaker 2: when everybody is looking at alternative ways to reach audience,
Speaker 2: you know, less costly ways to produce content. There's just
Speaker 2: a lot of trends that are converging. Where are you
Speaker 2: seeing the opportunities for not only revenue generating opportunities, but
Speaker 2: image burnishing and career burnishing opportunities.
Speaker 6: Yeah, so we really are focused a lot right now
Speaker 6: on ownership. You know, there's a time and a place
Speaker 6: for traditional television, but that is breaking, it's gridlocked, and
Speaker 6: digital natives are creating content that is just as well
Speaker 6: produced as we know, as we've seen on television, and
Speaker 6: they can take bigger swings podcasts for example, and other
Speaker 6: longer form content or blurring the lines between what is
Speaker 6: digital media and what is fit for TV. And we
Speaker 6: have been really supporting our clients in owning what they're
Speaker 6: creating because in traditional media that just isn't possible. When
Speaker 6: you're on unscripted talent like moletum my clients, they're on
Speaker 6: networks that own the shows that they're creating and all
Speaker 6: the merchandising that goes along with that. When you're creating
Speaker 6: content on a digital platform, you get to own that
Speaker 6: content and monetize it in many different ways. And that's
Speaker 6: why not every influencer is really looking to be in
Speaker 6: traditional entertainment traditional TV that going that route because they
Speaker 6: understand the power that they hold within their creator community.
Speaker 6: And so for us, we're really nurturing that in many ways,
Speaker 6: we really have found there's a flywheel that our talent
Speaker 6: and sort of isn't the nucleus. The nucleus of this flywheel,
Speaker 6: which is podcasts and streaming, end courses and live events, publishing,
Speaker 6: consumer products, all the things that they get to retain
Speaker 6: ownership in because it's their content and they own the content.
Speaker 2: Let me ask you of a hypothetical. You have a
Speaker 2: client that is really making waves in a particular space,
Speaker 2: a sector, genre, and you know that call comes in
Speaker 2: for a television deal with a you know, with a
Speaker 2: for an amount, an upfront amount that you that your
Speaker 2: client may have never seen that much money before. How
Speaker 2: does that conversation go when you're trying to decide what's
Speaker 2: best for the long term and the ownership and all
Speaker 2: the things you just mentioned.
Speaker 6: And we get those all the time and at the
Speaker 6: end of the day, but it's not taking away from
Speaker 6: what they currently have own and have built. Then they're
Speaker 6: happy to be I mean, we have clients who would
Speaker 6: love to be on the on the major networks, cable networks, Netflix,
Speaker 6: streaming platforms like that, and we are finding that it's
Speaker 6: a hybrid. We feel like there's the opportunity for them
Speaker 6: to be on those platforms because it is widening the
Speaker 6: aperture and they're getting in front of an audience that
Speaker 6: maybe isn't as familiar with them. And so as long
Speaker 6: as we can carve out the things that are pre
Speaker 6: existing that they currently have ownership in, and this is
Speaker 6: from that, and we get that all the time, and
Speaker 6: we're able to the networks. Now they understand the power
Speaker 6: that these influencers have and they're willing to negotiate in
Speaker 6: a greater terms that they may not have before because
Speaker 6: typically in the past you're casting unknowns in the unscripted space.
Speaker 6: These are now known entities that have a massive platform
Speaker 6: that the streaming platforms and cable networks want to tap into.
Speaker 6: And so it gives the talent on the influencers side
Speaker 6: a lot more leverage than ever before. We don't really
Speaker 6: represent influencers at my company. It's experts who have a
Speaker 6: real focused area of expertise, and then they have influence,
Speaker 6: whether that's through publishing, whether that's through television, whether that's
Speaker 6: through social media. And then you know what's happening now
Speaker 6: more and more is you're seeing brands because right now,
Speaker 6: as you said, our industry is in a really interesting
Speaker 6: place right now, brands more than ever, they're more interested
Speaker 6: in the influence than they are the platform. And so
Speaker 6: the day and age where you it's all about what
Speaker 6: TV credits you had, and we would hype major network,
Speaker 6: you know, ABC, NBC network. Right now it's like it's
Speaker 6: more about what their present with their social with their
Speaker 6: platform is where the greatest influence, where the influence is
Speaker 6: coming from the most. So is this case, if it's
Speaker 6: social media, it's more relevant than ever before than a
Speaker 6: major network show. And that's where we have to kind
Speaker 6: of toe the line and we really strategize with our
Speaker 6: clients and go, Okay, what is your goal, what is
Speaker 6: your north star?
Speaker 1: And then we were back from there.
Speaker 6: It doesn't make sense for you to go and do
Speaker 6: something on major network if you're going to have to
Speaker 6: give up your rights, or if you're going to have
Speaker 6: to take away time from where you're really making your revenue,
Speaker 6: unless you're trying to get to a certain audience that
Speaker 6: you're not currently capturing.
Speaker 2: We've heard a lot in the last year or so
Speaker 2: about the incredible focus on engagement and that in social
Speaker 2: media for celebrities or others. It does it's not about
Speaker 2: now having fifty million followers. Although that's nice, but like
Speaker 2: if you can prove that you have one million followers
Speaker 2: but the most rabid, dedicated followers in a space. So
Speaker 2: to measure that engagement, what are the things you look at?
Speaker 6: Or you hit an oil head by the way, I mean,
Speaker 6: it's it's wild people think the larger the following you have,
Speaker 6: the more deals you're going to get, and that's actually
Speaker 6: not true. It is about you know, there is a
Speaker 6: real focus right now on what we would call micro
Speaker 6: influencers and the range of what that falls under a
Speaker 6: from an audience, you know, it could be near from
Speaker 6: one hundred thousand. We've had brands who have wanted clients
Speaker 6: that have less than one hundred thousand, and then we
Speaker 6: you know, but I think the interesting thing there to
Speaker 6: your point is it's the audience. Who is the audience?
Speaker 6: And so if we have a client, as an example,
Speaker 6: who has a big platform on YouTube and he's in
Speaker 6: the trades, and the reason why we have big box
Speaker 6: retailers and brands, it's because he has a very focused audience.
Speaker 6: It's the exact audience they want to get, they want
Speaker 6: to get to, and it's only half a million subscribers
Speaker 6: versus clients of mind have millions of impressions and aren't
Speaker 6: getting the same interest in these big box with retos
Speaker 6: because the audience is so broad and it's not specific
Speaker 6: enough for them. And so the way that they can
Speaker 6: chell it with engagement is they're seeing the comments, they're
Speaker 6: seeing how many times the content's being shared, the kinds
Speaker 6: of questions, they're seeing, what's resconating, what content is trending
Speaker 6: more than others.
Speaker 2: Are we talking five figure, six figures seven.
Speaker 6: The mid six figure deals multi year though, Like so
Speaker 6: you're talking about this coming in yearly multi years. And
Speaker 6: these are brands that are being integrated both sort of covertly,
Speaker 6: you know, sort of because especially when it's a retailer,
Speaker 6: they can there's so many products that can be integrated
Speaker 6: within the content. And my client's because they're experts, they're very,
Speaker 6: very very discerning with what they'll agree to because they
Speaker 6: cannot risk their reputation as an expert. So you know
Speaker 6: that they've already vetted out the product because they're putting
Speaker 6: their name basically on it by integrating it within the content.
Speaker 6: And so brands more than ever are looking for really
Speaker 6: organic integrations. You can't do that on TV.
Speaker 2: Multi year deals. That sounds like recurring revenue. That's the
Speaker 2: holy grail when you are doing a brand deal with
Speaker 2: a big brand, a fortune five hundred brand, in terms
Speaker 2: of owning that content. Is that shifting it all the
Speaker 2: paradigm for social media creators or is it? Or do
Speaker 2: you find that for your creators, it's just that's a
Speaker 2: line in the sand, like they have to own it,
Speaker 2: even if it has an integration with company X. No,
Speaker 2: we get very creative with the deals. I mean, there
Speaker 2: are definitely deals with it it's co owned or the
Speaker 2: brand owns it because they've paid for it and they
Speaker 2: have it within it for a certain term. We rarely
Speaker 2: do in perpetuity, but we just we've had many brands
Speaker 2: come extend terms because the content is just so rich
Speaker 2: and the talent's still free in that category, and so
Speaker 2: they're going to go ahead and agree to do another
Speaker 2: year and a lot of times are getting paid just
Speaker 2: to repurpose that content. That talent's not even having to
Speaker 2: do any more work for it. The value is so
Speaker 2: there for the brand to keep that content fresh and
Speaker 2: out there in the public. So we've had many brands
Speaker 2: negotiate to have that right to extend the option, but
Speaker 2: it's rarely ever that that they've been paid for that,
Speaker 2: you know, they have to pay for it in order
Speaker 2: to have that attention we've been talking about brands. Are
Speaker 2: there other options for generating revenue for creators? Are you
Speaker 2: seeing any kind of meaningful subscription business or any any
Speaker 2: other ways to bring you know, to bring revenue in
Speaker 2: through the door.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean right now, what we're really seeing is
Speaker 6: the courses business big business. Probably see it everywhere on
Speaker 6: social media now everyone says, comment this word and we
Speaker 6: will send you something directly to you, and then it's
Speaker 6: a thing to go and sort of download and get into.
Speaker 6: Courses a big area of opportunity that we right now
Speaker 6: are doubling down on at our company because our clients
Speaker 6: are experts and they really have their own version of
Speaker 6: their masterclass that they can teach that may not that
Speaker 6: may not be reflected right now on a platform like that,
Speaker 6: and so we're really seeing that that's an area of opportunity.
Speaker 6: The other big thing right now is that we are
Speaker 6: having our clients who've never been on TV producing their
Speaker 6: own content getting brands to fund it, and so they
Speaker 6: get to really control the narrative. They get to control
Speaker 6: the creative and we are self distributing through various platforms
Speaker 6: like YouTube and licensing. Also these streaming channels doing licensing deals.
Speaker 6: So you own the content, brand funded and then you
Speaker 6: distribute it to all the various streaming channels because they're
Speaker 6: looking for content and if it's premium and it fits
Speaker 6: the narrative of what the platform is looking for.
Speaker 1: We've had a lot of success.
Speaker 6: We did it most recently with a talk show that
Speaker 6: we just produced with one of our former HTV clients
Speaker 6: and so meaning she was formerly from HTV and we
Speaker 6: have which.
Speaker 2: Can I ask when you say streaming channels do you
Speaker 2: mean fast channels? Do you mean like healthy others?
Speaker 6: It's Hulu, Roku, Disney Plus, Amazon, Samsung TV plus to
Speaker 6: be free v.
Speaker 2: So they give you like a modest license fee, but
Speaker 2: you own the content. You own the content. Wow, that's
Speaker 2: got to be Do you see that as growing?
Speaker 6: Yes? And it's interesting even the networks now we're looking
Speaker 6: for the kind of they're open to funded content in
Speaker 6: the time that they never were before. It's partially funded.
Speaker 6: Then there's like different deals. So we had a co ownership,
Speaker 6: but we are getting things fully funded and getting it
Speaker 6: distributed through various platforms without getting a details.
Speaker 2: There is a big YouTube.
Speaker 6: Channel created around a character that has done incredibly well,
Speaker 6: was acquired by a big company, and then now that company,
Speaker 6: who still contains continues to produce that content on YouTube,
Speaker 6: has done a deal with another big streaming platform, and
Speaker 6: that streaming platform paid a lot of money to produce
Speaker 6: this content on that platform.
Speaker 2: Meanwhile, what they.
Speaker 6: Continue to produce on YouTube is done at a fraction
Speaker 6: of the price. And what will be very telling is
Speaker 6: the audience, which is younger children. Are they really going
Speaker 6: to watch more of the premium version of it that's
Speaker 6: living on the streaming platform versus the stuff that's on
Speaker 6: for a fraction of the cost on YouTube, And is
Speaker 6: the premium is am We're going to continue to want
Speaker 6: to spend that kind of money. But it's interesting that
Speaker 6: they even got involved with you too, because they all
Speaker 6: want a piece of that business.
Speaker 2: We could talk another hour about all of the changes,
Speaker 2: but shab I thank you so much for giving me
Speaker 2: your view from somebody in the trenches doing this deal making.
Speaker 2: This is arming me with a lot of good talking
Speaker 2: points for can Lyon and I deeply appreciate your time.
Speaker 6: Thank you so much for having me appreciate it.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.
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