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Speaker 1: Welcome to Strictly Business, Variety's weekly podcast featuring conversations with

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Speaker 1: industry leaders about the business of media and entertainment. I'm

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Speaker 1: Cynthia Lyttleton, co editor in chief of Variety. Today's episode

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Speaker 1: is a warm up for the can Lion Festival, which

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Speaker 1: is all about brands, brands, brands, and of course schmoos, schmooz, schmootz.

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Speaker 1: It unfolds from June sixteenth to June twentieth by the

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Speaker 1: Seaside in can France. Variety will be there in force.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to try to squeeze out some bonus Strictly

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Speaker 1: Business episodes from all of the gab fests that Variety

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Speaker 1: is facilitating. To set the table. Here, we have a

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Speaker 1: discussion about the state of brand deal making for influencers

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Speaker 1: and social media creators. These are the hottest properties in

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Speaker 1: marketing and advertising right now, ask any CMO. The first

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Speaker 1: conversation is with Angelie Hernandez and Jirell Thompson of advertising

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Speaker 1: giant Havas. The two discuss their innovative Havas Play venture

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Speaker 1: that connects brands with online gaming communities and social media

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Speaker 1: creators its next level audience targeting. Hernandez is VP and

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Speaker 1: Portfolio lead for Havas Play. Thompson is VP of Gaming

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Speaker 1: for Havas Play. This interview was recorded on stage at

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Speaker 1: Variety's Entertainment Marketing Summit in Hollywood in April. The havas

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Speaker 1: Play pair are followed by a conversation with talent manager

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Speaker 1: shab Ozma. Ozma is CEO and founder of Art Collective,

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Speaker 1: a talent management firm that specializes in experts who build

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Speaker 1: social media businesses rooted in their skills. She gives us

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Speaker 1: the talents I view of where the heat is in

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Speaker 1: the marketplace for creators. So stick around. That's all coming

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Speaker 1: up after this break, and we're back with a conversation

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Speaker 1: with havas Play executives Angelie Hernandez and Jirell Thompson.

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Speaker 2: Let's start with sort of the thirty thousand foot view

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Speaker 2: and talk about what Hobbs Play is and what specifically

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Speaker 2: in the area of marketing and branding and fan connections

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Speaker 2: really where you plug in uniquely, because an, it's a

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Speaker 2: very interesting story and you're really starting to come out

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Speaker 2: and talk about it now.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, for sure. So we are a specialized vision

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Speaker 3: of Havas Media Network, and we really live and breathe

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Speaker 3: and focus on building brand consumer experiences at the intersection

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Speaker 3: of entertainment culture and connecting the brand to that audio

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Speaker 3: or whoever we're trying to speak to in a way

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Speaker 3: that's incredibly authentic h and also in a way that

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Speaker 3: the brand has the equity to even play in that space.

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Speaker 4: Pun intended.

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Speaker 2: So, and we really.

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Speaker 3: Really truly embody authenticity and really drive home to all

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Speaker 3: our brands and our clients that that is that is key,

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Speaker 3: and you really have to you have to have the

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Speaker 3: equity to play in that space, in that intersection of

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Speaker 3: culture and have something to say and contribute to that

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Speaker 3: to that space.

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Speaker 2: And obviously, I know a big part of how of

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Speaker 2: us play is really understanding and having you know, a

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Speaker 2: mainstream the world's marketer understand that if you want to

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Speaker 2: reach gen Z, you better know gaming. Like it's just

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Speaker 2: those two things are are those those lines are absolutely

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Speaker 2: you know crossing now and you just and it. And

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Speaker 2: it's a hard thing for pet people that are in

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Speaker 2: traditional Hollywood, traditional TV and film. It's a hard thing

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Speaker 2: to kind of really wrap your head around. But Jarelle,

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Speaker 2: I know you've spent a lot of time in this

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Speaker 2: community and especially especially that gen Z and what's coming

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Speaker 2: after Just how can you talk about just what you

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Speaker 2: found that is so important to reach people through that

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Speaker 2: combination of gaming and social media creators that you are

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Speaker 2: really focused on.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and when we think of again like showing up

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Speaker 5: meaningful and making sure that brands are connected to audiences

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Speaker 5: in ways that make sense to the community. When we

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Speaker 5: think of gen Z one gen Z, when we think

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Speaker 5: of like their behaviors and gaming, it's a major part

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Speaker 5: of their day. When we think of like their entire

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Speaker 5: like media consumption, gaming is a big part of them,

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Speaker 5: but aside from just playing video games, it's all about

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Speaker 5: the media, Like when we look at the last of us,

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Speaker 5: like gaming is taking over different aspects of pop culture.

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Speaker 5: So we think of how do you talk to gen Z?

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Speaker 5: Part of that is really understanding how are you talking

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Speaker 5: to them through gaming as a medium, and how are

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Speaker 5: you talking to them in not only a meaningful way,

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Speaker 5: but in a way that provides tangible value and in

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Speaker 5: a way that's authentic.

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Speaker 2: Are you focused on like in game placements activity, so

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Speaker 2: when people are actually actively playing or esports where people

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Speaker 2: are watching other that kind of gaming, where's the real

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Speaker 2: focus for you? In terms of that brand connection that

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Speaker 2: you're talking about.

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Speaker 5: No, that's actually a great question, and I think a

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Speaker 5: misconception today is that like gaming, the whole gaming ecosystem

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Speaker 5: is just the gameplay. There's people watching Twitch creators. When

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Speaker 5: you look at the likes of like a Kai Sinot,

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Speaker 5: like he's transcended the likes of just playing video games

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Speaker 5: on Twitch, but he's a celebrity you see is show

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Speaker 5: speed is showing up in China.

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Speaker 4: He's like an ambassador for them.

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Speaker 5: There's ways that you can align with content, like you

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Speaker 5: can partner with the likes of like an ign or

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Speaker 5: like different sites. There's also in game and game is

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Speaker 5: also really big. You see, there's a major partnership between

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Speaker 5: Disney and Epic Games. They're going to see Disney IP

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Speaker 5: and Disney characters in Fortnite for the foreseeable future as

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Speaker 5: they try and turn that into the Disney Digital Parks

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Speaker 5: of the future.

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Speaker 2: So in terms by Disney is a very big push.

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Speaker 2: Can I ask you, is there a premium over watching

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Speaker 2: any sports or watching something on Twitch if you can

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Speaker 2: reach somebody while they're engaged in gameplay.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, in game is actually a very compelling space to

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Speaker 5: reach gamers, and I think that's why you see a

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Speaker 5: lot of brands really tapping into and really leaning into

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Speaker 5: the space and creating these custom environments and with the

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Speaker 5: likes of like a Fortnite, a Roadblocks or a Minecraft.

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Speaker 4: To reach them.

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Speaker 3: And on that note too, I had mentioned about how

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Speaker 3: we are also really focused on ensuring that our brands

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Speaker 3: have the equity to play in that space.

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Speaker 2: And so for from an indus game stick out like

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Speaker 2: a sore thumb r.

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Speaker 3: So from an in game perspective, as a brand, you

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Speaker 3: have to be incredibly cautious that you're not interrupting their experience,

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Speaker 3: interrupting their game or even I mean, you can show

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Speaker 3: up as a brand, you have no equity to be there,

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Speaker 3: and the gamers like why why are they here? And

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Speaker 3: then that in and itself interrupts they're gaming like their

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Speaker 3: their play. Uh, and so the gamers already turned off

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Speaker 3: by it.

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Speaker 2: Right, not the kind of brand association exactly. How do

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Speaker 2: social media creators kind of plug into this, because as

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Speaker 2: I understand, they can almost become ambassadors for games that

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Speaker 2: and communities that then create their own little mini ecosystems.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll take from a from a really macro perspective,

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Speaker 3: I think Drel mentioned this before. You have gaming creators

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Speaker 3: now that you know they don't do They don't just play, right,

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Speaker 3: It's not that people are going to them to watch

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Speaker 3: their twitch streams.

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Speaker 1: Now.

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Speaker 3: Their twitch streams are inclusive of so many other interests.

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Speaker 3: Again a game. We've been saying this for years. Gamers

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Speaker 3: aren't a monolith, right. They just don't play games like

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Speaker 3: they love music. They're at that center of fashion and

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Speaker 3: music and other trends. And so you have these followers,

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Speaker 3: and they've created this fandom that their followers look to

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Speaker 3: them for all of their content. You have celebrities coming

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Speaker 3: into their streams like Kevin Hart that just you know,

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Speaker 3: sit in the house all day and it's hours and

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Speaker 3: hours of content that are compelling because they have galvanized

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Speaker 3: this community around them that want to follow them and

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Speaker 3: want to pay attention.

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Speaker 2: I got to believe though, in all of this, there

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Speaker 2: are brand safety issues. How do you knew that you

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Speaker 2: knew that question was coming. How do you weigh who

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Speaker 2: to partner with? Do you do you sometimes have to

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Speaker 2: take flyers and then just monitor how things are going.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I think a lot of that has to do

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Speaker 5: with wet have os play. We have a really in

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Speaker 5: depth process where we vet through creators. We have a

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Speaker 5: lot of systems in place where you like, do a

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Speaker 5: lot of digging. We make sure that we're connecting the

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Speaker 5: right brand to the right creators. How we're doing our

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Speaker 5: due diligence, sit ensure that like brand safe or if

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Speaker 5: they're they're relevant for the brand, because honestly, there are

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Speaker 5: some you know, some brands might make sense for certain

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Speaker 5: creators who maybe a little bit edgy, might be a

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Speaker 5: little bit rescuae, but for some they're like for financial

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Speaker 5: brands that we work with, we need to make sure

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Speaker 5: that like we honestly match with everyone who is the

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Speaker 5: most brand safe and you know, makes sense and it's

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Speaker 5: for the right audience.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and obviously anything can happen. Creators are their own

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Speaker 3: sort of boss, right.

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Speaker 2: You have to warn your clients. Okay, sometimes you might

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Speaker 2: have to take a deeper.

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Speaker 3: Yes, Oh, the education always has to happen at the beginning,

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Speaker 3: at the middle, at the end. It's constant education. But

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Speaker 3: you know it's we hold hands and we get through

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Speaker 3: it together. But a lot of that process that we

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Speaker 3: sort of employ upfront minimizes that. But again, you always

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Speaker 3: have to be prepared anything can happen from a macro

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Speaker 3: perspective in culture and anything that incentivized as a creator

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Speaker 3: just to say something, say they're POV that may not

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Speaker 3: align with brand, and so you know, you take care

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Speaker 3: of it.

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Speaker 5: In that regard to and to Angie's point, I think

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Speaker 5: we're at a more mature phase in the creator economy.

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Speaker 5: I think again in this in twenty twenty five, a

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Speaker 5: lot of creators understand the importance of them being brand

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Speaker 5: safe entities to help represent these brands. And not only

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Speaker 5: are they just creators, They're not just me the streamer.

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Speaker 5: They're representing the brands like on behalf of them as

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Speaker 5: a business partner, and there's a certain level of decorum

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Speaker 5: and a certain way that they need to carry themselves

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Speaker 5: that is important for not only them, but also for

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Speaker 5: the clients that they represent.

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Speaker 2: Do you have a, for instance, for me, of a

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Speaker 2: brand that really had an effective, an effective placement or

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Speaker 2: an effective partnership that moved the needle for them all

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Speaker 2: the way down to selling whatever goods or services they

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Speaker 2: were trying to market.

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Speaker 4: We had a very interesting one.

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Speaker 5: This is for major tire company in partnership with a

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Speaker 5: major film studio, bloom Drive right, Yeah, So we were

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Speaker 5: promoting a film so think Fast and the Furious, but

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Speaker 5: less emphasis on family and more connected to a really

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Speaker 5: popular video game. Yeah, and they were up against head

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Speaker 5: winds from Barbenheimer basically, and they were very nervous about

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Speaker 5: galvanizing the gamer community to come and check out the

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Speaker 5: movie again considering all of the different, you know, challenges

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Speaker 5: they were up against. So they what they tasked us

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Speaker 5: with was coming up with a really immersive plan tapping

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Speaker 5: into basically the star of the film to do content

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Speaker 5: to really reach out to gamers and really talk to

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Speaker 5: them and get them excited, and to type them up

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Speaker 5: about the film.

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Speaker 4: And honestly, like it.

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Speaker 5: Was such a huge success in getting the gaming the

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Speaker 5: gamers excited. We had people on streams Twitch saying I

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Speaker 5: saw the movie two and three times and it resulted

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Speaker 5: in twelve years time spent with all of the video

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Speaker 5: content that we did. And you think like a decade

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Speaker 5: worth of time spent watching the videos and we only

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Speaker 5: did about six videos.

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Speaker 2: So you must have loved that report sending in that

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Speaker 2: report here we gave you with plage. But given that

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Speaker 2: so much of this activity, if not almost every bit

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Speaker 2: of it, is digital, you can really track right down.

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Speaker 2: You can probably track the activity right down to did

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Speaker 2: they go into the showroom and buy the truck or

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Speaker 2: by the tires or it's got to be really enlightening

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Speaker 2: and really fascinating.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, there was a lot of back end measurement that

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Speaker 5: we had that allowed us to see like where like

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Speaker 5: some of the regions that you know, we're viewing the

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Speaker 5: content the most. And I think as we went on

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Speaker 5: throughout the campaign, we started to learn and we started

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Speaker 5: to iterate, and it allowed us to tailor the content

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Speaker 5: more so that we were garnering more engagement and becoming

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Speaker 5: smarter towards the end of it.

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Speaker 2: What was the time I'm framed for this was this?

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Speaker 2: Was this play out over weeks? Over months?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it was eight weeks. That's a lot.

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Speaker 2: One thing I know as we're wrapping up here, I

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Speaker 2: know very important to use women, both women gaming women

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Speaker 2: creators and and just in the last couple of months,

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Speaker 2: I've been to conferences and events and seeing that like

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Speaker 2: social media has become a entrepreneurial engine for women and

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Speaker 2: women that would not you wouldn't think might not be

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Speaker 2: in a position to launch a company, but so many

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Speaker 2: things are coming out of kitchens and living rooms and garages,

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Speaker 2: and it's just it's just fascinating. What are you finding

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Speaker 2: is about brands that want to reach young women And

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Speaker 2: how is this Like how is this boon that social

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Speaker 2: media has created for people to do direct to consumer marketing?

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Speaker 2: Like how how has that changed the game for big

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Speaker 2: brands that want to reach those people.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, actually we were talking about this the other day. Now,

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Speaker 3: creators more than ever, have a lot of power. They

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Speaker 3: have a lot of buying power within their followers, right,

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Speaker 3: you can gavanize their followers to purchase.

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Speaker 2: But they also have a lot.

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Speaker 3: More control over their careers. They have a lot more

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Speaker 3: control over where they even make money. Right, and they

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Speaker 3: don't necessarily have to have a brand partnership, right, they

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Speaker 3: can make money on their own. There are all these

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Speaker 3: platforms now that allow them to do that. You also

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Speaker 3: have companies, whether they're brands or even social platforms that

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Speaker 3: turn to them because now not only are they experts

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Speaker 3: in their what their audience likes to see and hear

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Speaker 3: and talk about, they're also experts on the platform themselves.

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Speaker 3: Like the creators know how to use TikTok and Instagram,

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Speaker 3: they know the algorithm, they know they're tapped into their

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Speaker 3: content so so much that they understand what's going to

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Speaker 3: move the needle. And so now it's almost like their

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Speaker 3: resume is gigantic, right, And so that gives them the

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Speaker 3: power to say, you know what, your brand doesn't align

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Speaker 3: with my values. Your brand doesn't probably speak to my audience,

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Speaker 3: and so they have a lot more power to sort.

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Speaker 2: Of say no, not sort of say no.

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Speaker 3: And so it's something to contend with, but nothing that

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Speaker 3: that is a detriment. I think it actually it benefits us,

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Speaker 3: It benefits brands because then you really know that once

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Speaker 3: you pick a creator and that creator picks you back,

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Speaker 3: that's probably going to be the start of a beautiful

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Speaker 3: relationship that we would want to continue, right, It's not

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Speaker 3: a flash in the pan.

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Speaker 2: We always want brands.

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Speaker 3: To continue that relationship with the creators that they choose.

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Speaker 2: All little mini marketers on their own by definition of

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Speaker 2: what they do. Here in our waning seconds, what are

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Speaker 2: you excited about, whether something in gaming or a functionality

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Speaker 2: or a capability coming to havos play, what's exciting?

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Speaker 4: We're super excited about our gaming capabilities.

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Speaker 5: I think, as Ang alluded to earlier, again, what we

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Speaker 5: pride ourselves on and haas is about being meaningful. And

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Speaker 5: I made a comment earlier this month about like, there's

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Speaker 5: so many entryways for brands and clients to enter into gaming,

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Speaker 5: and you need a spirit guide to help you find

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Speaker 5: you know where those appropriate entry points are and to

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Speaker 5: match you with some of the appropriate tactics so that

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Speaker 5: you're showing up authentically, you're providing tangible value because gamers

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Speaker 5: are a very discerning audience and they smell bullshit from

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Speaker 5: a mile away, So you need someone who is an expert,

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Speaker 5: who is also very immersed and well versed in the

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Speaker 5: community to help guide these clients and to help match

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Speaker 5: them with you know, what are the right opportunities and

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Speaker 5: where the right points where we can like match you

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Speaker 5: with your business goals and also show up cool and

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Speaker 5: relevant brand.

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Speaker 2: Thank you both for being here and sharing all this.

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Speaker 3: Thank you so much, guys.

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Speaker 5: Thank you.

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Speaker 1: Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back with shab Ozma

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Speaker 1: of Art Collective after this break. And we're back now

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Speaker 1: we'll hear from our second guest. Shab Ozma is founder

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Speaker 1: and CEO of Art Collective. She has a diverse background

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Speaker 1: in talent management, unscripted TV production and brand management. All

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Speaker 1: of those skills come together in her role leading the

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Speaker 1: company that is part talent agency and part content development hub.

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Speaker 1: For the long list of social media creators and expert

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Speaker 1: influencers on her roster. Here she talks about how deals

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Speaker 1: get done, how creators weigh brand opportunities, and why some

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Speaker 1: social media superstars are turning down offers for traditional TV.

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Speaker 1: Shab Ozma, CEO and founder of ARC Collective, a talent

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Speaker 1: management and entertainment company, Thanks so much for joining me.

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Speaker 6: Thank you so much for having me.

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Speaker 2: The entertainment industry becomes even more and more interested and

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Speaker 2: intertwined with the incredible metastasizing world of influencers and social

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Speaker 2: media creators, people who are really making a living on

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Speaker 2: non traditional media channels. It's one of the biggest things

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Speaker 2: that is growing and in influencing the entertainment space, and

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Speaker 2: it is certainly capturing attention in Hollywood at a time

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Speaker 2: when everybody is looking at alternative ways to reach audience,

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Speaker 2: you know, less costly ways to produce content. There's just

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Speaker 2: a lot of trends that are converging. Where are you

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Speaker 2: seeing the opportunities for not only revenue generating opportunities, but

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Speaker 2: image burnishing and career burnishing opportunities.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, so we really are focused a lot right now

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Speaker 6: on ownership. You know, there's a time and a place

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Speaker 6: for traditional television, but that is breaking, it's gridlocked, and

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Speaker 6: digital natives are creating content that is just as well

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Speaker 6: produced as we know, as we've seen on television, and

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Speaker 6: they can take bigger swings podcasts for example, and other

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Speaker 6: longer form content or blurring the lines between what is

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Speaker 6: digital media and what is fit for TV. And we

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Speaker 6: have been really supporting our clients in owning what they're

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Speaker 6: creating because in traditional media that just isn't possible. When

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Speaker 6: you're on unscripted talent like moletum my clients, they're on

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Speaker 6: networks that own the shows that they're creating and all

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Speaker 6: the merchandising that goes along with that. When you're creating

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Speaker 6: content on a digital platform, you get to own that

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Speaker 6: content and monetize it in many different ways. And that's

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Speaker 6: why not every influencer is really looking to be in

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Speaker 6: traditional entertainment traditional TV that going that route because they

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Speaker 6: understand the power that they hold within their creator community.

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Speaker 6: And so for us, we're really nurturing that in many ways,

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Speaker 6: we really have found there's a flywheel that our talent

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Speaker 6: and sort of isn't the nucleus. The nucleus of this flywheel,

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Speaker 6: which is podcasts and streaming, end courses and live events, publishing,

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Speaker 6: consumer products, all the things that they get to retain

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Speaker 6: ownership in because it's their content and they own the content.

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Speaker 2: Let me ask you of a hypothetical. You have a

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Speaker 2: client that is really making waves in a particular space,

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Speaker 2: a sector, genre, and you know that call comes in

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Speaker 2: for a television deal with a you know, with a

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Speaker 2: for an amount, an upfront amount that you that your

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Speaker 2: client may have never seen that much money before. How

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Speaker 2: does that conversation go when you're trying to decide what's

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Speaker 2: best for the long term and the ownership and all

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Speaker 2: the things you just mentioned.

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Speaker 6: And we get those all the time and at the

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Speaker 6: end of the day, but it's not taking away from

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Speaker 6: what they currently have own and have built. Then they're

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Speaker 6: happy to be I mean, we have clients who would

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Speaker 6: love to be on the on the major networks, cable networks, Netflix,

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Speaker 6: streaming platforms like that, and we are finding that it's

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Speaker 6: a hybrid. We feel like there's the opportunity for them

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Speaker 6: to be on those platforms because it is widening the

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Speaker 6: aperture and they're getting in front of an audience that

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Speaker 6: maybe isn't as familiar with them. And so as long

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Speaker 6: as we can carve out the things that are pre

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Speaker 6: existing that they currently have ownership in, and this is

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Speaker 6: from that, and we get that all the time, and

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Speaker 6: we're able to the networks. Now they understand the power

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Speaker 6: that these influencers have and they're willing to negotiate in

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Speaker 6: a greater terms that they may not have before because

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Speaker 6: typically in the past you're casting unknowns in the unscripted space.

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Speaker 6: These are now known entities that have a massive platform

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Speaker 6: that the streaming platforms and cable networks want to tap into.

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Speaker 6: And so it gives the talent on the influencers side

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Speaker 6: a lot more leverage than ever before. We don't really

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Speaker 6: represent influencers at my company. It's experts who have a

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Speaker 6: real focused area of expertise, and then they have influence,

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Speaker 6: whether that's through publishing, whether that's through television, whether that's

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Speaker 6: through social media. And then you know what's happening now

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Speaker 6: more and more is you're seeing brands because right now,

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Speaker 6: as you said, our industry is in a really interesting

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Speaker 6: place right now, brands more than ever, they're more interested

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Speaker 6: in the influence than they are the platform. And so

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Speaker 6: the day and age where you it's all about what

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Speaker 6: TV credits you had, and we would hype major network,

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Speaker 6: you know, ABC, NBC network. Right now it's like it's

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Speaker 6: more about what their present with their social with their

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Speaker 6: platform is where the greatest influence, where the influence is

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Speaker 6: coming from the most. So is this case, if it's

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Speaker 6: social media, it's more relevant than ever before than a

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Speaker 6: major network show. And that's where we have to kind

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Speaker 6: of toe the line and we really strategize with our

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Speaker 6: clients and go, Okay, what is your goal, what is

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Speaker 6: your north star?

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Speaker 1: And then we were back from there.

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Speaker 6: It doesn't make sense for you to go and do

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Speaker 6: something on major network if you're going to have to

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Speaker 6: give up your rights, or if you're going to have

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Speaker 6: to take away time from where you're really making your revenue,

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Speaker 6: unless you're trying to get to a certain audience that

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Speaker 6: you're not currently capturing.

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Speaker 2: We've heard a lot in the last year or so

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Speaker 2: about the incredible focus on engagement and that in social

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Speaker 2: media for celebrities or others. It does it's not about

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Speaker 2: now having fifty million followers. Although that's nice, but like

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Speaker 2: if you can prove that you have one million followers

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Speaker 2: but the most rabid, dedicated followers in a space. So

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Speaker 2: to measure that engagement, what are the things you look at?

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Speaker 6: Or you hit an oil head by the way, I mean,

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Speaker 6: it's it's wild people think the larger the following you have,

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Speaker 6: the more deals you're going to get, and that's actually

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Speaker 6: not true. It is about you know, there is a

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Speaker 6: real focus right now on what we would call micro

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Speaker 6: influencers and the range of what that falls under a

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Speaker 6: from an audience, you know, it could be near from

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Speaker 6: one hundred thousand. We've had brands who have wanted clients

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Speaker 6: that have less than one hundred thousand, and then we

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Speaker 6: you know, but I think the interesting thing there to

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Speaker 6: your point is it's the audience. Who is the audience?

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Speaker 6: And so if we have a client, as an example,

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Speaker 6: who has a big platform on YouTube and he's in

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Speaker 6: the trades, and the reason why we have big box

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Speaker 6: retailers and brands, it's because he has a very focused audience.

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Speaker 6: It's the exact audience they want to get, they want

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Speaker 6: to get to, and it's only half a million subscribers

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Speaker 6: versus clients of mind have millions of impressions and aren't

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Speaker 6: getting the same interest in these big box with retos

440
00:23:56,160 --> 00:24:00,840
Speaker 6: because the audience is so broad and it's not specific

441
00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:03,080
Speaker 6: enough for them. And so the way that they can

442
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:05,280
Speaker 6: chell it with engagement is they're seeing the comments, they're

443
00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:07,440
Speaker 6: seeing how many times the content's being shared, the kinds

444
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:11,320
Speaker 6: of questions, they're seeing, what's resconating, what content is trending

445
00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:12,000
Speaker 6: more than others.

446
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:15,200
Speaker 2: Are we talking five figure, six figures seven.

447
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:19,080
Speaker 6: The mid six figure deals multi year though, Like so

448
00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:23,040
Speaker 6: you're talking about this coming in yearly multi years. And

449
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:26,760
Speaker 6: these are brands that are being integrated both sort of covertly,

450
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:29,440
Speaker 6: you know, sort of because especially when it's a retailer,

451
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:31,960
Speaker 6: they can there's so many products that can be integrated

452
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:36,000
Speaker 6: within the content. And my client's because they're experts, they're very,

453
00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:38,880
Speaker 6: very very discerning with what they'll agree to because they

454
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:42,560
Speaker 6: cannot risk their reputation as an expert. So you know

455
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:45,639
Speaker 6: that they've already vetted out the product because they're putting

456
00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:48,320
Speaker 6: their name basically on it by integrating it within the content.

457
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:51,040
Speaker 6: And so brands more than ever are looking for really

458
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:54,040
Speaker 6: organic integrations. You can't do that on TV.

459
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:57,879
Speaker 2: Multi year deals. That sounds like recurring revenue. That's the

460
00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:01,200
Speaker 2: holy grail when you are doing a brand deal with

461
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:04,800
Speaker 2: a big brand, a fortune five hundred brand, in terms

462
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:08,359
Speaker 2: of owning that content. Is that shifting it all the

463
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:11,199
Speaker 2: paradigm for social media creators or is it? Or do

464
00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:13,760
Speaker 2: you find that for your creators, it's just that's a

465
00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:16,160
Speaker 2: line in the sand, like they have to own it,

466
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:20,000
Speaker 2: even if it has an integration with company X. No,

467
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:22,360
Speaker 2: we get very creative with the deals. I mean, there

468
00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:25,239
Speaker 2: are definitely deals with it it's co owned or the

469
00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:28,040
Speaker 2: brand owns it because they've paid for it and they

470
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:30,359
Speaker 2: have it within it for a certain term. We rarely

471
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:33,760
Speaker 2: do in perpetuity, but we just we've had many brands

472
00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:37,560
Speaker 2: come extend terms because the content is just so rich

473
00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:39,720
Speaker 2: and the talent's still free in that category, and so

474
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:41,120
Speaker 2: they're going to go ahead and agree to do another

475
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:43,560
Speaker 2: year and a lot of times are getting paid just

476
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:45,840
Speaker 2: to repurpose that content. That talent's not even having to

477
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 2: do any more work for it. The value is so

478
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:50,800
Speaker 2: there for the brand to keep that content fresh and

479
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 2: out there in the public. So we've had many brands

480
00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:58,000
Speaker 2: negotiate to have that right to extend the option, but

481
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:01,879
Speaker 2: it's rarely ever that that they've been paid for that,

482
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:03,760
Speaker 2: you know, they have to pay for it in order

483
00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:06,800
Speaker 2: to have that attention we've been talking about brands. Are

484
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:10,720
Speaker 2: there other options for generating revenue for creators? Are you

485
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:15,400
Speaker 2: seeing any kind of meaningful subscription business or any any

486
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 2: other ways to bring you know, to bring revenue in

487
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:18,120
Speaker 2: through the door.

488
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:20,679
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean right now, what we're really seeing is

489
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:25,280
Speaker 6: the courses business big business. Probably see it everywhere on

490
00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:29,040
Speaker 6: social media now everyone says, comment this word and we

491
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:31,240
Speaker 6: will send you something directly to you, and then it's

492
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:33,160
Speaker 6: a thing to go and sort of download and get into.

493
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,320
Speaker 6: Courses a big area of opportunity that we right now

494
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:38,639
Speaker 6: are doubling down on at our company because our clients

495
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:41,800
Speaker 6: are experts and they really have their own version of

496
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:44,399
Speaker 6: their masterclass that they can teach that may not that

497
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:46,919
Speaker 6: may not be reflected right now on a platform like that,

498
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:49,640
Speaker 6: and so we're really seeing that that's an area of opportunity.

499
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:52,680
Speaker 6: The other big thing right now is that we are

500
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:57,560
Speaker 6: having our clients who've never been on TV producing their

501
00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 6: own content getting brands to fund it, and so they

502
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:03,200
Speaker 6: get to really control the narrative. They get to control

503
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:07,120
Speaker 6: the creative and we are self distributing through various platforms

504
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:14,119
Speaker 6: like YouTube and licensing. Also these streaming channels doing licensing deals.

505
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:17,639
Speaker 6: So you own the content, brand funded and then you

506
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:21,120
Speaker 6: distribute it to all the various streaming channels because they're

507
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 6: looking for content and if it's premium and it fits

508
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:25,440
Speaker 6: the narrative of what the platform is looking for.

509
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 1: We've had a lot of success.

510
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:28,480
Speaker 6: We did it most recently with a talk show that

511
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:31,000
Speaker 6: we just produced with one of our former HTV clients

512
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:34,320
Speaker 6: and so meaning she was formerly from HTV and we

513
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:35,600
Speaker 6: have which.

514
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:37,520
Speaker 2: Can I ask when you say streaming channels do you

515
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 2: mean fast channels? Do you mean like healthy others?

516
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:45,639
Speaker 6: It's Hulu, Roku, Disney Plus, Amazon, Samsung TV plus to

517
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:46,480
Speaker 6: be free v.

518
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 2: So they give you like a modest license fee, but

519
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:53,400
Speaker 2: you own the content. You own the content. Wow, that's

520
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:55,639
Speaker 2: got to be Do you see that as growing?

521
00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:59,640
Speaker 6: Yes? And it's interesting even the networks now we're looking

522
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:03,240
Speaker 6: for the kind of they're open to funded content in

523
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:06,719
Speaker 6: the time that they never were before. It's partially funded.

524
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:08,960
Speaker 6: Then there's like different deals. So we had a co ownership,

525
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:12,679
Speaker 6: but we are getting things fully funded and getting it

526
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:16,240
Speaker 6: distributed through various platforms without getting a details.

527
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:18,639
Speaker 2: There is a big YouTube.

528
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:22,840
Speaker 6: Channel created around a character that has done incredibly well,

529
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:27,120
Speaker 6: was acquired by a big company, and then now that company,

530
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:30,600
Speaker 6: who still contains continues to produce that content on YouTube,

531
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 6: has done a deal with another big streaming platform, and

532
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 6: that streaming platform paid a lot of money to produce

533
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:39,400
Speaker 6: this content on that platform.

534
00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:42,160
Speaker 2: Meanwhile, what they.

535
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:44,840
Speaker 6: Continue to produce on YouTube is done at a fraction

536
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 6: of the price. And what will be very telling is

537
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:51,840
Speaker 6: the audience, which is younger children. Are they really going

538
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:54,320
Speaker 6: to watch more of the premium version of it that's

539
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:56,320
Speaker 6: living on the streaming platform versus the stuff that's on

540
00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 6: for a fraction of the cost on YouTube, And is

541
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 6: the premium is am We're going to continue to want

542
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 6: to spend that kind of money. But it's interesting that

543
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 6: they even got involved with you too, because they all

544
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:08,240
Speaker 6: want a piece of that business.

545
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 2: We could talk another hour about all of the changes,

546
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:14,560
Speaker 2: but shab I thank you so much for giving me

547
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:18,600
Speaker 2: your view from somebody in the trenches doing this deal making.

548
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 2: This is arming me with a lot of good talking

549
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 2: points for can Lyon and I deeply appreciate your time.

550
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:26,400
Speaker 6: Thank you so much for having me appreciate it.

551
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.

552
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:33,320
Speaker 2: Be sure to leave us a review at Apple Podcasts

553
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 2: or Amazon Music. We love to hear from listeners. Please

554
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 2: go to Variety dot com and sign up for the

555
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 2: free weekly Strictly Business newsletter, and don't forget to tune

556
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:47,520
Speaker 2: in next week for another episode of Strictly Business