1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:04,040 Speaker 1: Hello, I'm Senator Lindsay Graham. Welcome to Verdict with Ted Cruise, 2 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:07,560 Speaker 1: the number one podcast in the entire country. What is 3 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 1: a podcast? Welcome back to Verdict with Ted Cruise. I'm 4 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:22,360 Speaker 1: Michael Knowles. I'm joined by not one, but two US 5 00:00:22,440 --> 00:00:25,959 Speaker 1: Senators to help us break down the most shocking day 6 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 1: of the entire impeachment trial. Senator Graham, thank you so 7 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:32,400 Speaker 1: much for being here. Gentlemen. The last time that we 8 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:35,400 Speaker 1: sat down, I was told this impeachment was going to 9 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:37,559 Speaker 1: drag on for weeks. We were going to get witnesses. 10 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:39,600 Speaker 1: We were gonna get Bolton, we were gonna get Hunter Biden. 11 00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:42,200 Speaker 1: This was gonna get long and ugly. I go to sleep. 12 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:46,559 Speaker 1: I wake up today and the senators are voting no 13 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:49,280 Speaker 1: more witnesses. This thing could be over next week, Senator Cruise, 14 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:51,879 Speaker 1: what happened? Well, today was a big day. And let 15 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:55,560 Speaker 1: me say, lindsay, thank you. Well. You appreciate your coming. 16 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:57,440 Speaker 1: This is late at night. We spent all day, all 17 00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:02,640 Speaker 1: day in the setting, a lot of money on production. Sorry, well, 18 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:06,360 Speaker 1: this was you're right yesterday. If the vote had gone 19 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:09,319 Speaker 1: differently today, this trial could have gone on for months. 20 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:12,119 Speaker 1: We could have seen a drag on and on and on, 21 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:13,920 Speaker 1: and it was a big deal. It was up in 22 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 1: the air, and today was the most important vote we've 23 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:21,240 Speaker 1: had in the entire trial. It really came down to 24 00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:25,400 Speaker 1: we knew we had forty seven Democrats that wanted more witnesses. 25 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 1: Why because they hadn't proved in the case. They're losing 26 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:31,240 Speaker 1: and so the only hope they have is extended, going 27 00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:33,839 Speaker 1: a fishing expedition and see if they can find something. 28 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:37,200 Speaker 1: The big open question was were four Republicans going to 29 00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 1: join them? We knew that two Republicans were, they'd announced 30 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 1: it already, Mitt Romney and Susan Collins were voting with them. 31 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:45,760 Speaker 1: There were two other senators who were in play, Lamar 32 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 1: Alexander Lisa Murkowski, and it was close. Last night. Lamar 33 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:52,800 Speaker 1: announced that he was going to come out and say 34 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 1: enough is enough. And we just found got a final 35 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 1: decision from Lisa today just a few minutes before she voted. 36 00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 1: Absolutely So I saw the update on my phone when 37 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:04,720 Speaker 1: Senator Murkowski finally decided she was going to vote no 38 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:08,680 Speaker 1: more witnesses. How does that work? Well, that's what I 39 00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:11,359 Speaker 1: was going to ask you, because it's Michael. Have you 40 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:14,360 Speaker 1: ever seen his phone. You hang in there. That's worth 41 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 1: worth the way. Oh you know it is. The Russians 42 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 1: can't get in this. You'll all have one in a 43 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:26,359 Speaker 1: five years. Senator Grant, you're clearly a fiscal conservative if 44 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 1: you were using that kind of cell phone. What happened 45 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:33,399 Speaker 1: with Senator Murkowski? I know that you two gentlemen were 46 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 1: kneeling and dealing a little bit on the Senate floor. 47 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:39,400 Speaker 1: So unless number one Ted was awesome, we had a 48 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:42,519 Speaker 1: little team trying to convince people. Can you say shit 49 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:45,359 Speaker 1: show on podcasts? I think you just did that all right? 50 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:47,640 Speaker 1: So what would happened if you call witnesses being a 51 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:50,560 Speaker 1: shit show? Yeah, you're just not gonna call John Bolton. 52 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:52,680 Speaker 1: If you're gonna call a witness, we're gonna call all 53 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:55,359 Speaker 1: the witnesses. What do you want to know a little 54 00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 1: bit about the Bidens? You know, I like Joe Biden, 55 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 1: but give me a break. If Mike pen this son 56 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:03,240 Speaker 1: was making three million dollars a year from the most 57 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:05,520 Speaker 1: corrupt gas company in the U Train, don't you think 58 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:08,160 Speaker 1: you might hear about it. You're only gonna hear about 59 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:11,240 Speaker 1: the Bidens on this podcast. So the bottom line here 60 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:15,360 Speaker 1: is Ted made a very eloquent argument that it throwes 61 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:18,640 Speaker 1: the courts in the chaos to be the first impeachment 62 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:23,640 Speaker 1: in history. If you have executive privilege, we'll be decided 63 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 1: by the United States Senate that if you call one witness, 64 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:30,080 Speaker 1: you're gonna call a bunch of witnesses. The president didn't 65 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:32,960 Speaker 1: get to call one witness in the House, so you 66 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:37,520 Speaker 1: open up Pandora's bogs and number two, the whole idea 67 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:41,760 Speaker 1: of legitimizing an impeachment in the House that took seventy 68 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:44,760 Speaker 1: eight days. You can't get a parking ticket in seventy 69 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 1: eight days if you can test it. Not one witness 70 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 1: allowed to be called by the president, no cross examination. 71 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:54,080 Speaker 1: The bottom line is the whole thing was at sham, 72 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:56,440 Speaker 1: and we were trying to convince Lisa and everybody else 73 00:03:56,560 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 1: don't legitimize this, don't do their work for them. They're 74 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 1: accusing you of being unfair because you did not call 75 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 1: a witness. They chose doctor call. Why didn't they call 76 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 1: John Bolton because it would be inconvenient. They couldn't impeach 77 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 1: the president by Christmas. That's not a good reason to 78 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:14,040 Speaker 1: ignore the courts. Do you think that it was the 79 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:16,840 Speaker 1: public arguments well, we all saw on TV that moved 80 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:20,159 Speaker 1: Senator Murkowski or was it more private conversations? So I 81 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:24,680 Speaker 1: think the pivotal moment happened day before yesterday. Day before yesterday, 82 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:27,679 Speaker 1: Adam Schiff made a mistake. He was standing up arguing 83 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 1: and he said, he said, listen, the White House defense 84 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 1: team had made John Bolton relevant because they have contradicted 85 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:38,159 Speaker 1: what he said. And then he threw a little aside. 86 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:41,320 Speaker 1: He said, if they'd a stipulated to it, then they'd 87 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 1: have an argument. And it was interesting. I heard that 88 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:47,000 Speaker 1: Jay Sekulo's eyes got real wide when he said that, 89 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 1: and I got up and went back to the cloak room. 90 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:51,400 Speaker 1: Lindsay went back to the close. Well, I opened my 91 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:53,600 Speaker 1: eyes at that point. So for those of us who 92 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:55,920 Speaker 1: were not us senators, why is that the big light 93 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:58,719 Speaker 1: bulb moment? So well, I'll tell you. So, I immediately 94 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:02,320 Speaker 1: in the cloak room, got my phone, texted my team 95 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 1: and said, give me the transcript of exactly what Shift 96 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:08,440 Speaker 1: just said. And I went to Lindsay and we began talking, saying, look, 97 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 1: we need to get Lamar, we need to get Lisa. 98 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:16,160 Speaker 1: This idea of if you stipulate to a quid pro quo. 99 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 1: If you agree, even if there is a quid pro quo, 100 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:21,599 Speaker 1: we win. That might get their vote, that might give them, 101 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:24,159 Speaker 1: give them a ground to become comfortable. So we got 102 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 1: the script, Lindsay and I together in the cloak room. 103 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:29,560 Speaker 1: We talked with Lamar. We showed him exactly what he said. 104 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 1: We said, what do you think about this? We talked 105 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 1: with Lisa, He said, hey, what do you think about this? 106 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:35,680 Speaker 1: They were open to the idea. They weren't convinced, but 107 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:38,960 Speaker 1: they were thinking about it. They were listening. We kept 108 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 1: talking the next day in the question period, I think 109 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 1: the most important question is a question Lindsay wrote that 110 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:47,240 Speaker 1: I helped him write, and it was a question that 111 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:50,240 Speaker 1: was to the White House team that essentially said, if 112 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:54,120 Speaker 1: you assume, for sake of argument, then John Bolton testifies 113 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:56,560 Speaker 1: and everything he says is right, that we just assume 114 00:05:56,640 --> 00:05:59,760 Speaker 1: everything's right, that there's a quid pro quo, is that 115 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:04,560 Speaker 1: impeachable offense or not? And the White House lawyers that 116 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 1: they didn't want to go down this road. They had 117 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 1: to be dragged, kicking and screaming to this point. And 118 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 1: I'll tell you there was some kicking and screaming that 119 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:14,360 Speaker 1: Lindsay and I were both engaged with but they got 120 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:16,839 Speaker 1: up and they gave the answer, the most important answer, 121 00:06:16,839 --> 00:06:19,840 Speaker 1: where they said, look, even if he testified, even if 122 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:22,479 Speaker 1: he says it's a quid pro quo, it doesn't change 123 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:26,480 Speaker 1: that it's an impeachable offense, which means his testimony isn't necessary. 124 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:28,479 Speaker 1: And they walked through, as we've been talking about on 125 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 1: this podcast, that a president can always investigate corruption, and 126 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:35,520 Speaker 1: if that's right, that a president can always investigate corruption, 127 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:38,200 Speaker 1: there was more than enough evidence of corruption. And I 128 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:41,480 Speaker 1: think that played. That exchange where the White House lawyers 129 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:44,840 Speaker 1: made that argument in response to the question we teed up, 130 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:48,799 Speaker 1: I think was pivotal to getting both Lisa and Lamar, 131 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:51,240 Speaker 1: especially Lisa, to yes, which we need. So what you're 132 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 1: saying the White House team was pushing back, They didn't 133 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:57,120 Speaker 1: necessarily want to go down this road of if there 134 00:06:57,240 --> 00:07:01,680 Speaker 1: was a quid pro quo, then X, Y and Z right. However, 135 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:05,159 Speaker 1: if you address that that argument and it still doesn't 136 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 1: matter if there was a quid pro que, then there 137 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 1: is no basis whatsoever for the impeachment. Well, there's no 138 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:14,560 Speaker 1: basis to call John Bolton. So what brought all this up? 139 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:17,400 Speaker 1: You know, Ted was very proud. I'm a practical guy. 140 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:22,600 Speaker 1: Lisa mccowski is independent from Alaska. We're Republicans from Texas 141 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 1: and South Carolina. A little different politics. And here's the problem. 142 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 1: They could have called John Bolton and others, but they 143 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 1: chose not to because they wanted to impeach the president 144 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 1: before Christmas. The president would declared executive privilege. It had 145 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:39,040 Speaker 1: gone to court like Nixon and Clinton did, but that 146 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:42,200 Speaker 1: got in the way of this railroad right job. But 147 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 1: the problem is, there's a blurb in the New York Times, 148 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:48,360 Speaker 1: as they always do, saying John Bolton has direct evidence 149 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:51,960 Speaker 1: that the President asked him to condition the AID on 150 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 1: investigating the bidens looking at interference by the Ukraine. That 151 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:59,560 Speaker 1: was different. The defense team of the President said there 152 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:01,680 Speaker 1: is no evidence and there right, there was no direct 153 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 1: evidence in the record that the House chose to establish. 154 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 1: And from just a common sense point of view, it 155 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:11,960 Speaker 1: raises a question. Lamar is an institutionalist. He wanted to 156 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:14,720 Speaker 1: make sure that the Senate was a body that was 157 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 1: open minded, fair and Lisa had to go back home 158 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:21,840 Speaker 1: and explained, well, why didn't you call any witnesses? And 159 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 1: here's the point. If we call John Bolton. Now want 160 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 1: the president raise executive privilege? Because if he doesn't, he 161 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 1: forfeits that for future presidence. Do we as senators destroy 162 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:37,960 Speaker 1: the privilege? To be the first impeachment in history where 163 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:40,880 Speaker 1: there was no court access, we would have to decide 164 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:43,720 Speaker 1: executive privilege. And I think that made Lamar feel uncomfortable. 165 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:45,439 Speaker 1: So walk me through that just a little bit more, 166 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:47,679 Speaker 1: because this is now not an argument. So this is 167 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:51,559 Speaker 1: really important right here. So this is about what happens 168 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:55,960 Speaker 1: if we try to capture this testimony. The president was 169 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 1: denied the chance to go to court in the House, 170 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 1: they shut him out. What if we say now we 171 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 1: want to call him for a new reason, and if 172 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 1: he asked to go to court, the logic is the 173 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 1: court of impeachment de sized not Article three courts. It 174 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 1: may be the first time in history a president was 175 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:16,320 Speaker 1: impeached without ever being able to avail the courts. Right, 176 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 1: So what's the answer this assuming for a moment arguendo podcast, 177 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:26,120 Speaker 1: people look up, Okay, you showed off your Latin and 178 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:29,319 Speaker 1: the episode so arguing, I am like it is a 179 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:31,640 Speaker 1: lawyer word. You put it in race all the time 180 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:35,199 Speaker 1: where you say assume arguendo, which is I'm not admitting it. Yeah, 181 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:37,679 Speaker 1: but assume for case of argument this is true. We 182 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:39,480 Speaker 1: still win. And so you do that in briefs all 183 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:41,839 Speaker 1: the time. Yeah, that's right in South Carolina. What if 184 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:46,600 Speaker 1: he said it is assuming arguendo, would it matter? So 185 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:49,720 Speaker 1: why I assume for a moment for arguendo, for the 186 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:54,160 Speaker 1: sake of argument, that if John Bolton did, if he 187 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:57,040 Speaker 1: was told by the President, I want to suspend AID 188 00:09:57,520 --> 00:09:59,800 Speaker 1: until I find more about what the Bidens did. He 189 00:09:59,840 --> 00:10:03,480 Speaker 1: had every reason in the world because if you're in charge, Ted, 190 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:07,280 Speaker 1: if I put you in charge of fixing corruption in 191 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:11,520 Speaker 1: the Ukraine and I find out that your son, who's 192 00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 1: you know, until I'm told that job pays a million 193 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:16,720 Speaker 1: bucks here, Okay, so it's better than podcasting, don't you 194 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:19,400 Speaker 1: think When Joe Biden gets in front of the Ukrainian 195 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:23,280 Speaker 1: parliament says we got in corruption in the Ukraine, particularly 196 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:26,439 Speaker 1: the energy sector, and everybody said, well, why is your 197 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:28,720 Speaker 1: son on the border breeze by making a million dollars, 198 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:32,240 Speaker 1: it kind of undercuts your argument. It destroyed our ability 199 00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 1: quite frankly, to be credible agents of change. And that's 200 00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:38,080 Speaker 1: a public policy. And you know, all Lamar said, that's right. 201 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:40,319 Speaker 1: There's a reason to look at that. And there was 202 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:43,200 Speaker 1: all kind of evidence that the Ukraine UH didn't like 203 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:45,720 Speaker 1: Trump and like Clinton at least parts of it. So 204 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:48,560 Speaker 1: the president had a legitimate public purpose. And that gets 205 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 1: back to Dershowitz. He says, if there's a mixed motive, 206 00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:54,120 Speaker 1: the reason it's impeachment sucks so much. We got to 207 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 1: get into Trump's brain and find out how much of 208 00:10:56,920 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 1: it was personal and how much it was public and what. 209 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:02,280 Speaker 1: And I said, you know, they said, there's not a 210 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:05,599 Speaker 1: sentilla of evidence that the Biden said anything wrong. I said, no, 211 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:08,920 Speaker 1: there's not. There's a herd of zendillas. You know, if 212 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 1: you find one of these little suckers rumming around, you win. 213 00:11:13,559 --> 00:11:16,760 Speaker 1: So like even I could prove this doesn't pass the 214 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 1: smell test. And they started thinking, and I said, assume 215 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 1: for a moment that the conversation was most beneficial to 216 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:27,480 Speaker 1: the house managers. You wind up right where you are today. 217 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:31,000 Speaker 1: There was a legitimate public purpose to suspend the AID 218 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:33,560 Speaker 1: and this is not an impeachable fence. Do you think 219 00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:37,760 Speaker 1: the founders really meant to throw the president out of 220 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:40,720 Speaker 1: office who could never run again because for forty days, 221 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:43,640 Speaker 1: he's suspended age of the Ukraine. They wind up getting 222 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:46,160 Speaker 1: the money and they didn't investigate anybody. But this is 223 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 1: this is a real trick, a real political trick here, 224 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:52,560 Speaker 1: because you've got Senator Alexander, who you say cares about 225 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:56,040 Speaker 1: the institutions. He's a wonderful man of credibility. Absolutely, and 226 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:59,840 Speaker 1: you've got Senator Murkowski, who's independent, she's gonna go back home. 227 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:04,600 Speaker 1: Had real problems. So they have separate problems. And I 228 00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:07,280 Speaker 1: understood maybe differently than others. And now I let ted 229 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:10,240 Speaker 1: talk here. You've got to address the problem in front 230 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:13,320 Speaker 1: of you. From Lisa Murkowski's point of view. If we 231 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:16,679 Speaker 1: could show Lisa that if you had the New York 232 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:18,880 Speaker 1: Times article in front of you and I tried to 233 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:22,199 Speaker 1: get a stipulation the day before, would it really matter. 234 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:24,720 Speaker 1: Wouldn't it still fall short of the impeachment? Is this 235 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:27,439 Speaker 1: really what they meant to throw a president out? That 236 00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:30,440 Speaker 1: you suspend AID when they got the money, never did 237 00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:33,880 Speaker 1: investigation the big picture stuff. Then I think that turned 238 00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:37,160 Speaker 1: the thinking that you really didn't need Bolton because it 239 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:39,920 Speaker 1: wouldn't change the outcome. So one of the things that 240 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 1: I think was really potent is Lindsay is a trial lawyer. 241 00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 1: I'm an a pellet lawyer. Those are different worlds, those 242 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:49,520 Speaker 1: are different arenas. I say shit show and he says stuff. 243 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:52,640 Speaker 1: So that's the difference between a trial lawyer and at lawyer. Look, look, 244 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:55,920 Speaker 1: trial lawyers talk to jury's a pellet lawyers talk to judges. 245 00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:58,960 Speaker 1: Those are different ways of framing, framing things. But he 246 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:01,040 Speaker 1: and I teamed up very close. We probably wrote a 247 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:04,320 Speaker 1: dozen questions together, some of which we asked, some of 248 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:06,560 Speaker 1: which we gave to our colleagues and they asked. But 249 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:09,440 Speaker 1: a lot of it we were aiming over and over 250 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:13,239 Speaker 1: and over again. We had a purpose at Lamar and Lisa, 251 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:16,000 Speaker 1: trying to move them, but trying to also give them. 252 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:18,080 Speaker 1: You know, we talked on this podcast a lot of 253 00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:21,840 Speaker 1: times about framing the narrative and choosing, choosing the terrain 254 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:24,960 Speaker 1: on which you fight, if the whole fight. Early on 255 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:27,000 Speaker 1: the White House spent hours an hour saying there's no 256 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:28,960 Speaker 1: quid pro quo, there's no quid pro quote. Well, you 257 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 1: know what if that's their argument, The fact that the 258 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 1: New York Time says John Bolton says there is a 259 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:39,760 Speaker 1: quid pro quo that suddenly makes if someone they even handed. 260 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:43,640 Speaker 1: If that's the central dispute, it's really hard to say, well, God, 261 00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:46,840 Speaker 1: shouldn't we bring him in to testify? What was important? 262 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:48,480 Speaker 1: And it took a couple of days to get us 263 00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:51,600 Speaker 1: there is to make clear it doesn't matter if there 264 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:54,400 Speaker 1: was a quid pro quo or not. That's not the issue. 265 00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:57,959 Speaker 1: So I'm start to interrupt. There were these competing strategies. 266 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:00,760 Speaker 1: Were these two? Okay? So here's the point. You got 267 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:04,880 Speaker 1: to know who you're talking to. Lisa Murkowski is very independent. 268 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:08,000 Speaker 1: She's not going to do something because somebody tells her to. 269 00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:12,040 Speaker 1: It's inconvenient. If you want a witness, that's not gonna matter. 270 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:15,000 Speaker 1: It may hurt the team if you call a witness. 271 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 1: And Lamar loves the institution, he's about to retire. He's 272 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:20,960 Speaker 1: going to do what he thinks best. And what we 273 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:24,080 Speaker 1: try to do is explain play it out. They're playing 274 00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:26,520 Speaker 1: a game here. They set us up. They could have 275 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 1: called the witness. They chose not to because it's inconvenient. 276 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:33,800 Speaker 1: Now they're asking you to deal out Article three courts bad. 277 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:36,640 Speaker 1: So assume for a moment you had Bolton in front 278 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:39,520 Speaker 1: of you, would it really change the outcome? Here? Does 279 00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:42,440 Speaker 1: it make it an ippeachable offense for Bolton to say 280 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:45,360 Speaker 1: what he's going to say, and the answer is clearly Now. 281 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:47,760 Speaker 1: There was another argument that I think moved them quite 282 00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:51,360 Speaker 1: a bit, yes, and it was that what the Democrats 283 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:53,000 Speaker 1: were trying to do if we'd have been a fifty 284 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:55,640 Speaker 1: fifty this is a big one here. The Democrats were 285 00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:58,680 Speaker 1: trying to go after the US Supreme Court because if 286 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:01,120 Speaker 1: it had been fifty fifty, and we talked about this 287 00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:05,000 Speaker 1: on the show last time, it's completely unclear if they 288 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:09,800 Speaker 1: would have tried to make John Roberts decide, and whatever 289 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 1: he did, it would have been viewed through a political lens. 290 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:15,800 Speaker 1: And so look, one case that a number of us 291 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:18,840 Speaker 1: made is we're in a world where people have lost 292 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:22,760 Speaker 1: faith in Congress, they've lost faith in the presidency. And 293 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:25,960 Speaker 1: if we come through this and let the Democrats tarnish 294 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:29,080 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court two, where they lose faith in every 295 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 1: institution of government, that that's a real problem. And Michael, 296 00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:34,920 Speaker 1: I think we've got a clip here that will give 297 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:39,160 Speaker 1: an example of the Democrat's strategy. Question from Senator Warren 298 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:43,440 Speaker 1: is for the House managers at a time when large 299 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:47,320 Speaker 1: majorities of Americans have lost faith in government. Does the 300 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:50,520 Speaker 1: fact that the Chief Justice is presiding over an impeachment 301 00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 1: trial in which Republican Senators have thus far refused to 302 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:59,239 Speaker 1: allow witnesses or evidence contribute to the loss of legitimacy 303 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:02,960 Speaker 1: of the Chief Justice, the Supreme Court, and the Constitution. 304 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:06,160 Speaker 1: Now that is an insulting question. Now, Michael, I'm going 305 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:11,280 Speaker 1: to tell you something surprising. Yeah, Elizabeth Warren helped defeat 306 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:14,880 Speaker 1: the impeachment of the President of the United States. That 307 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:18,320 Speaker 1: little stunt she pulled was a campaign stunt. That was 308 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:22,280 Speaker 1: a fundraising stunt that was designed to thrill the left 309 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:25,840 Speaker 1: wing activist in the Iowa caucus. There ain't nothing else 310 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:28,160 Speaker 1: going on than that. But I'll tell you what. That 311 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 1: stunt helped deliver the votes of Lisa and Lamar. It 312 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 1: did because it made clear this is a political game 313 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:42,400 Speaker 1: and if John Roberts doesn't vote the way Elizabeth Warren wants, 314 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:44,680 Speaker 1: she's going to call him a political hack and throw 315 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:49,560 Speaker 1: him into politics. And it suddenly raised the price of 316 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:52,040 Speaker 1: their voting and making it fifty fifty. Because you don't 317 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:54,760 Speaker 1: want to see the court thrown into that political swamp? 318 00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:57,360 Speaker 1: Do you agree with that? All you gotta do is 319 00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 1: look at her statement, she said, a fair trial and 320 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:04,080 Speaker 1: the sentence impossible because of them. This is Lisa, So 321 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:07,200 Speaker 1: her statement was that they're going to set up the 322 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:10,879 Speaker 1: Chief Justice because they hate Trump so much. So the 323 00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:14,280 Speaker 1: difference between fifty one and fifties enormous. If it's fifty 324 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:16,439 Speaker 1: to fifty, then you put the Chief Justice in the 325 00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:20,280 Speaker 1: crosshairs of history, you begin to corrupt the court. As 326 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:23,399 Speaker 1: Ted said, they could give a damn on the other side. 327 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:25,919 Speaker 1: They just want an outcome here. And I think it 328 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:31,320 Speaker 1: really mattered to Lamar and Lisa that Ted explained the 329 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:34,640 Speaker 1: historic nature of what the Chief Justice would be required 330 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:38,240 Speaker 1: to decide. And I think I explained, honest to God, 331 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:41,480 Speaker 1: if you believed every word of John Bolt wouldn't matter, 332 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:44,240 Speaker 1: and the truth is, it wouldn't be. A left wing 333 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:47,760 Speaker 1: attack group today put out an attack ad with John 334 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:51,680 Speaker 1: Robert Farr and a Maga Hath Yeah, and that ticked 335 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:55,359 Speaker 1: off Republican senators that helped produce the vote we had today. 336 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:57,600 Speaker 1: So you think it was just an overreach by people 337 00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:00,159 Speaker 1: like Senator Warren, by these left wing groups. So what 338 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:02,880 Speaker 1: I want to know, I mean, this was a truly 339 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:06,960 Speaker 1: shocking day. What happens now, Well, I just want to 340 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:09,080 Speaker 1: fill out with what you said. It wasn't just an 341 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:13,119 Speaker 1: overreach by them. They helped. It was two senators or 342 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:16,679 Speaker 1: good people thinking it through, and Ted bringing to the 343 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:19,760 Speaker 1: table and expertise that very few people have, quite frankly, 344 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:22,800 Speaker 1: and I just try to say, listen, I try to 345 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:26,480 Speaker 1: be fair. I supported the Mueller investigation. I actually co 346 00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:30,439 Speaker 1: sponsored legislation that would prevent Mueller from being fired without 347 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:33,960 Speaker 1: causing Yeah, what the thin, Well, just to tell Trump, 348 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:37,040 Speaker 1: what the hell are you thinking? If you fire this guy, 349 00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:40,720 Speaker 1: you're dead. And I thought Mueller would be fair, but 350 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:44,800 Speaker 1: this whole process has not been fair. So I could say, listen, guys, 351 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:48,320 Speaker 1: it's not like I think the presence beyond being looked at. 352 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:51,240 Speaker 1: What they did in the House is dangerous to the country. 353 00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:54,359 Speaker 1: It's a partisan impeach, but no due process, and we 354 00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:56,840 Speaker 1: need to end it the right way. Do not make 355 00:18:56,880 --> 00:18:59,399 Speaker 1: it worse. And what would make it worse is to 356 00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:02,160 Speaker 1: do what d said, put the court in the crossairs 357 00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:04,359 Speaker 1: of history in the wrong way. And what would make 358 00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:07,080 Speaker 1: it worse is to let them go to us into 359 00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:11,240 Speaker 1: calling a witness. That wouldn't matter because they think we're unfair. 360 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:14,159 Speaker 1: You've done nothing wrong here it was the other side 361 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:17,640 Speaker 1: who did something wrong well, And as a consequence, John 362 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:19,800 Speaker 1: Roberts is not in a position where he has to 363 00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:23,520 Speaker 1: make any controversial rulings where they get where he's being 364 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:26,840 Speaker 1: set up to be attacked as being political. He simply 365 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:29,760 Speaker 1: he presided over a fair trial and it was the 366 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:33,000 Speaker 1: Senators who are voted. And look, we're elected to make 367 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:37,080 Speaker 1: policy decisions and political decisions and also to apply the 368 00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:39,880 Speaker 1: constitutional standards, and that's what we did. In some way, 369 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:41,719 Speaker 1: it feels like we dodged a bullet if it were 370 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:46,960 Speaker 1: you have no idea. No, you dodged a candid truck. Yeah, 371 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:51,160 Speaker 1: but because really just play it out. We call witnesses. 372 00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:54,040 Speaker 1: Then you're not just going to call John Bolton, You're 373 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:56,720 Speaker 1: going to have the whistleblower. Is going to be a 374 00:19:56,840 --> 00:19:59,240 Speaker 1: nightmare for the country. You have all kind of issues 375 00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:01,600 Speaker 1: decided by the Senate should be decided by the courts, 376 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:04,200 Speaker 1: and you would set a president that I think would 377 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:07,560 Speaker 1: make impeachment of every president in future almost a certainty. 378 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:10,359 Speaker 1: And it seemed actually in some of the arguments we 379 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:13,520 Speaker 1: heard during the trial that there was a threat there 380 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:15,800 Speaker 1: or an acknowledgement that if we continue down this path. 381 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 1: We're going to impeach every president from now on. Well, 382 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:22,200 Speaker 1: and that remains a real risk that we've opened the 383 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:24,479 Speaker 1: door to. So how do you stop that if the 384 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:27,040 Speaker 1: House loses? And one of the reasons they lost just 385 00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:30,200 Speaker 1: because they've gone crazy. Donald Trump's changed the Republican Party, 386 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:34,359 Speaker 1: but he's driven the Democratic Party completely nuts. So what 387 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:38,160 Speaker 1: would happen if President Trump gets reelected? That's exoneration. Well, 388 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:40,680 Speaker 1: and let me underscore that, because that's a very good point. 389 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:46,520 Speaker 1: I actually think Bill Clinton helped keep Barack Obama from 390 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:51,600 Speaker 1: getting impeached. So now why is that Republicans impeach? And 391 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:56,280 Speaker 1: actually Lindsay was manager, you don't reve this at home, okay, 392 00:20:56,600 --> 00:20:59,840 Speaker 1: And it backfired. It it hurt Republicans, it got Bill 393 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:02,679 Speaker 1: hunt and reelected. It didn't work, and a lot of 394 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:06,280 Speaker 1: Republicans took that message. Hey, wait a second, being seen 395 00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:10,360 Speaker 1: being two partisan, too aggressive of using impeachment. That's a problem. 396 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:13,359 Speaker 1: And so when it came to Obama, look, Obama on 397 00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:15,560 Speaker 1: the abuse of power theory that we've heard from the 398 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:19,760 Speaker 1: House managers. Obama abused his power in many respects, and 399 00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:23,119 Speaker 1: yet all of us agreed we shouldn't be impeaching Obama 400 00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:24,720 Speaker 1: we should beat him at the ballot box, which we 401 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:28,040 Speaker 1: tried to do, but impeachment wasn't the right tool. If 402 00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:32,520 Speaker 1: Republicans hadn't gotten burned so bad on the Clinton impeachment, 403 00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:35,800 Speaker 1: there would have been some loud voices to impeach Obama. 404 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:37,880 Speaker 1: But as it was, people said, let's not go down 405 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:41,520 Speaker 1: that road. So if you want to stop partisan impeachments 406 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:43,760 Speaker 1: going forward, the best way in lindsay, you're right, I 407 00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:46,000 Speaker 1: hadn't thought about it and connected it like this. The 408 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 1: best way to stop it is for Democrats to get 409 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:54,080 Speaker 1: walloped in November, because then the next Democrats will say, okay, wow, 410 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:57,080 Speaker 1: this this impeaching business. And by the way, the Republicans 411 00:21:57,119 --> 00:22:01,280 Speaker 1: will too. Well. You know, we still remember. Lamar asked 412 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:06,400 Speaker 1: a question, what's the partisan difference between Nixon, Clinton and Trump? 413 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:12,920 Speaker 1: A lot, a little nun a lot of bipartisanship for Nixon. Yeah, 414 00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:15,440 Speaker 1: that's the kind of thing the founders had in mind. 415 00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:19,360 Speaker 1: You know, this is a constitutional death penalty for a politician. 416 00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:23,440 Speaker 1: You should use exparingly. Clinton had thirty three Democrats say 417 00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:28,640 Speaker 1: let's look at it, bipartisan impeachment, and Clinton basically cheated 418 00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:32,440 Speaker 1: Paula Jones out of her day in court, hid evidence, perjury, 419 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:35,120 Speaker 1: you name it. You can't have the most spowerful person 420 00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:37,840 Speaker 1: in the country to story a private citizen's right to 421 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:40,399 Speaker 1: have their day in court. Now Here we are with 422 00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:45,399 Speaker 1: Trump bipartisan rejection of the articles of impeachment, and I 423 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:47,879 Speaker 1: think that bothered Lamar, that it was the way it 424 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:50,880 Speaker 1: was done and the outcome in the House. We don't 425 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 1: want to be joined with Lamar on a question exactly. 426 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:57,320 Speaker 1: Lamar really rose to the occasion because what you're saying 427 00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:00,119 Speaker 1: is there was a bipartisan rejection of rejection. But in 428 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:02,119 Speaker 1: terms of the people who actually voted for impeachment, it 429 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:04,280 Speaker 1: was the first time in US history you had a 430 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:08,119 Speaker 1: purely partisan impeachment. Yeah, and I hope it's the last 431 00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:12,880 Speaker 1: c Clinton was in his second term Nixon resigned. If 432 00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:16,320 Speaker 1: Trump wins, he'll be the first person impeached in his 433 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:20,080 Speaker 1: first term to get reelected. That will exonerate him. Now, 434 00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:22,960 Speaker 1: I want to know, obviously, the impeachment hearings have been 435 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:25,760 Speaker 1: so dreary and tedious, and it's gonna be kidding me. 436 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:30,720 Speaker 1: It's you. I know, you'll admit if you're watching this podcast, 437 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:33,440 Speaker 1: you're loving this. Well, the podcast maybe c SPAN. I 438 00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:36,160 Speaker 1: don't know. Well, actually people listen to this because they 439 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:38,480 Speaker 1: can't watch c SPAN for thirteen hours and it makes 440 00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:41,040 Speaker 1: their eyes and ears bleed. But this way, this is 441 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:46,639 Speaker 1: somewhere between c SPAN and the trial. Was there any 442 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:50,240 Speaker 1: moment that was that had some levity to it? The 443 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:54,680 Speaker 1: some voibles? I think the funniest moment was last night, 444 00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:57,720 Speaker 1: the very last of the question, sixteen hours of questions, 445 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:00,920 Speaker 1: Amy Klobuchar submits the last question ends the card down number. 446 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:02,960 Speaker 1: Once she sends the wrong card down, so the chief 447 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:04,760 Speaker 1: doesn't read it. She realizes that she screwed up. She 448 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:06,920 Speaker 1: has to run down and write her name on the car. 449 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:11,520 Speaker 1: So that starts off cracking up at that. And it's 450 00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:15,320 Speaker 1: not that hard. You literally write your name on it, 451 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:20,879 Speaker 1: you know, kindergart okay, and I didn't screw up, you know, 452 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:23,560 Speaker 1: put your name on the top block letters. I think 453 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:26,040 Speaker 1: she was thinking about Iowa. Maybe she wasn't saying attention, 454 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:28,440 Speaker 1: So Phil, this is a good one. Keep going. So 455 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:32,400 Speaker 1: her question was with the house managers give a closing argument. 456 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:34,880 Speaker 1: So Adam Schiff stands up. You seem kind of puff 457 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:38,320 Speaker 1: at his chest. He starts walking forward and Jerry Nadler 458 00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:41,800 Speaker 1: was sitting like four seats behind him, runs behind him, 459 00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:44,199 Speaker 1: push a shift out of the leg and goes to 460 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:49,080 Speaker 1: the microphone, and and Schiff is literally going, Jerry, Jerry, Jerry. 461 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:55,080 Speaker 1: And he stands there behind Adler, I mean glaring. He 462 00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:58,600 Speaker 1: wanted to punch or strangle him. These are the two 463 00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:02,080 Speaker 1: how stamach right, impeachment manager that they're the leads. And 464 00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:04,840 Speaker 1: Nadler just went and gave his closing arguments, and Ship 465 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:07,240 Speaker 1: stood there for a good ten seconds, and then he 466 00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:11,560 Speaker 1: just sat down and glared at Nadler the whole time. 467 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,520 Speaker 1: And by the way, Roberts he had his reading glasses 468 00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:16,800 Speaker 1: on the tip of his nose. And I know I've 469 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:20,639 Speaker 1: known John Robert twenty five years. You saw a slight smile, 470 00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:24,320 Speaker 1: which for him is cracking up because they almost had 471 00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:26,360 Speaker 1: a fist. This band has never smiled in his luck. 472 00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:33,680 Speaker 1: So he's actually wickedly fun I know, John, You're right, 473 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:38,280 Speaker 1: he's a bring Mitch McConnell's funny in his own way. 474 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:43,160 Speaker 1: So so here's the deal. Jerry's wife is sick it. Yeah, 475 00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:46,280 Speaker 1: she's got she got pinkeran it cancer. Now I'm praying 476 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:48,200 Speaker 1: for driving known him for a long time, but Jerry 477 00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:50,199 Speaker 1: can throw a punch. He can take a punch. So 478 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:53,840 Speaker 1: number one shift. If Jerry Nadler's out running, you need 479 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:58,040 Speaker 1: to get in better shape. So but the deal is, 480 00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:01,359 Speaker 1: it was just shocking and we were all pulling for 481 00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:04,840 Speaker 1: Nadler to win the race. We'd heard enough of shifts, 482 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:08,119 Speaker 1: so Shift started good. But after about thirty hours or shift, 483 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:10,880 Speaker 1: you're ready to turn the channel. You know, it's bad 484 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:14,640 Speaker 1: when people want to hear Nadler, not not Shift. So 485 00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:18,919 Speaker 1: the bottom line, here's the classic story. And I know 486 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:21,400 Speaker 1: we gotta go because y'all gotta do whatever you do 487 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:28,400 Speaker 1: in a podcast, wolf drink and drive. So here's the deal. 488 00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:34,760 Speaker 1: Flipflowing shut Chumber trying to be clever. Sometimes he is. 489 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:39,760 Speaker 1: Sometimes we all fall short in this business. He invites uh, 490 00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:42,800 Speaker 1: he gives his ticket to be a spectator at the 491 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:47,960 Speaker 1: trial to part us. This is crooked at Snake Guy 492 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:52,240 Speaker 1: in the Ukraine has said that I'm in on it. 493 00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:54,840 Speaker 1: Lindsay Graham knew it all. And they said, have you 494 00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:56,680 Speaker 1: ever talked to Lindsay Graham? No, but I heard he 495 00:26:56,760 --> 00:27:00,520 Speaker 1: knew it all, so so I don't know at all. 496 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:03,639 Speaker 1: So they invite him to come. He shows up to 497 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,000 Speaker 1: get his ticket. He can't get in because he's got 498 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:11,480 Speaker 1: an anklet bracelet from the court. You can't mate this 499 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:14,280 Speaker 1: one up. That is you know, I almost wish the 500 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:17,160 Speaker 1: humors guess can't come into the drial couse he's got 501 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:18,960 Speaker 1: an ankle brace that's par for the course. Well, you 502 00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:21,520 Speaker 1: know State of the Union. I heard Schumer's bringing Charles Manson. 503 00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:26,880 Speaker 1: That'd be good. I'd be inter as anything guy's did so. Um, anyway, 504 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:29,199 Speaker 1: I've never done this before. If you're number two in 505 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:32,440 Speaker 1: the podcast world, you need to up your game because 506 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:38,480 Speaker 1: this is uber were number one. I know that. I'll 507 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:42,919 Speaker 1: take that as a compliment. Maybe, you know, speaking up, 508 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:44,240 Speaker 1: We've got to get you out of here because the 509 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:46,840 Speaker 1: senators are off. You get a couple of days off. Now, 510 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:53,040 Speaker 1: weird Union. I'm headed to Texas, Heading to Texas. Senator Graham, 511 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:55,360 Speaker 1: you're done this one in South Carolina? One last store. 512 00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:58,400 Speaker 1: You know the two guys that led the Alamo, both 513 00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:00,680 Speaker 1: of them are from South Carolina. What does that mean? 514 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:04,400 Speaker 1: We'll go a long way for a lost cause. And uh, 515 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:07,800 Speaker 1: I was an impeachment Maxas heroes. It would love Texas heroes. 516 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:10,119 Speaker 1: God blessed Texas. But Henry I was giving us the 517 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:13,479 Speaker 1: take the hill boys. We're gonna go over the Senate. 518 00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:17,240 Speaker 1: We're gonna stand for truth, justice in the American way. 519 00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:21,280 Speaker 1: You know the brave men and women at the Alamo, 520 00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:25,520 Speaker 1: you know they stood their ground, and you know that's 521 00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:28,280 Speaker 1: our charge, that's our charter. I said, hey, Henry, didn't 522 00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:31,480 Speaker 1: they all get killed? And he says, that's that's something 523 00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:34,240 Speaker 1: I ignored. But it's a good point. But he did 524 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:37,480 Speaker 1: say we're still talking about him did this day? It's true. 525 00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:40,240 Speaker 1: In a final point wrapping up, there will be another 526 00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:42,840 Speaker 1: bomb show. There will be an all Seen now and 527 00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:45,560 Speaker 1: Havin all times too. Do you think i'mis you? Something 528 00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:49,760 Speaker 1: else is coming between now and and and the verdict 529 00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:52,120 Speaker 1: on impeachment that will be voted on on Wednesday. There'll 530 00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:54,640 Speaker 1: be another bomb show in the New York Times probably, 531 00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:56,880 Speaker 1: but something else is going because I when I when 532 00:28:56,880 --> 00:28:59,560 Speaker 1: I saw it today, I just thought, Okay, it's over right. 533 00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:01,800 Speaker 1: I don't need to worry about it anymore. You're saying, oh, 534 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:05,240 Speaker 1: we both were on Kavanagh and you ask what's next 535 00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:07,160 Speaker 1: after this? Is that we're going to ask some hard 536 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:10,560 Speaker 1: questions State Department, Why didn't you understand this conflict? Of interest. 537 00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:13,160 Speaker 1: Why didn't you do something about it. We're going to 538 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:15,320 Speaker 1: get to the bottom of the FISA warrant abuse. We're 539 00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:17,280 Speaker 1: going to do all that stuff. But by the way, 540 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:20,200 Speaker 1: this is breaking news. Yeah, we cannot live in a country. 541 00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:22,200 Speaker 1: So you're because a lot of questions in the mailback 542 00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:26,840 Speaker 1: people are asking now, trust me, not because I actually 543 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:29,520 Speaker 1: like Joe Budden. I traveled the world with him. But 544 00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:32,360 Speaker 1: you know, if it had been Mike Pence or Vice 545 00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:34,680 Speaker 1: President Cheney, they'd be all over. We can't live in 546 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:37,040 Speaker 1: a world where just one side gets looked at. I 547 00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:40,520 Speaker 1: don't have any animosity in my heart toward toward anyone, 548 00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:42,760 Speaker 1: But the truth of the matter is you gotta have 549 00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:45,640 Speaker 1: a country where the rules matter for everybody, not just 550 00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:50,120 Speaker 1: President Trump. I mean not for Democrats. President Trump from 551 00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:52,760 Speaker 1: the day he took office and now has gone through hell. 552 00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:55,440 Speaker 1: His family's gone through hell. And I promise you to 553 00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:57,160 Speaker 1: those who care, we're going to get to the bottom 554 00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:00,920 Speaker 1: of barisma because it's important we find doubt about Bison. 555 00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:02,440 Speaker 1: But we're going to find out how could you an 556 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:05,840 Speaker 1: issue a warrant four times against an American citizen. Here's 557 00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:08,880 Speaker 1: the world if Trump goes to a Russian restaurant to 558 00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:12,200 Speaker 1: have dinner. He's a Russian. Yeah, you know, and you 559 00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:14,600 Speaker 1: know you can have three million dollars paid to your 560 00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:17,280 Speaker 1: son in the Ukraine and nobody cares. Now if President 561 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:20,680 Speaker 1: Trump gets acquitted, you're saying, the Senate Republicans are not 562 00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:22,680 Speaker 1: going to give up on this. What can be done 563 00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:25,720 Speaker 1: over to get to the bottom of Jim Rash's Chairman 564 00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:27,920 Speaker 1: of Foreign Relations community. The first witness I want to 565 00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:30,920 Speaker 1: call is John Carey's chiefest staff. When you were told 566 00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:33,960 Speaker 1: that there was a conflict of interest by John Carey 567 00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:36,040 Speaker 1: steps on, who is their business partner? Why don't you 568 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:39,160 Speaker 1: do something about it? And last I checked, both you 569 00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:41,320 Speaker 1: and I are on foreign relations. Last time I checked, 570 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:45,600 Speaker 1: we're on judiciary and we're on foreign relations. This is 571 00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:49,520 Speaker 1: the beginning of a day of reckoning. This is not 572 00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:51,400 Speaker 1: the beginning of the end. Maybe the end of the 573 00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:54,240 Speaker 1: beginning we're moving on. Is the end of the podcast. 574 00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:56,400 Speaker 1: And at the end of the one thing I want 575 00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:58,360 Speaker 1: to know before we let you get out of here 576 00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:01,719 Speaker 1: and hop onto a plane. One last is I noticed 577 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:04,360 Speaker 1: it's much earlier tonight. Usually we're here at two o'clock 578 00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:07,760 Speaker 1: in the morning. It's only eleven o'clock at night. Why 579 00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:10,840 Speaker 1: is it that Mitch McConnell that all these senators are 580 00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:12,920 Speaker 1: letting people get out of here so early? Was there 581 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:16,320 Speaker 1: some I think the Democrats wanted to go to Iowa? 582 00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:21,040 Speaker 1: The Democrats three democrat jumping to go to Iowa. Did 583 00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:24,960 Speaker 1: you talk to any of your colleagues? Were they well, 584 00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:28,200 Speaker 1: you know, let's look at it this way. I'm not married, 585 00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:31,480 Speaker 1: So why can't you get everything done the way you 586 00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:34,280 Speaker 1: want it? I'll let Ted answer that question. We've got 587 00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:37,360 Speaker 1: one hundred people in the Senate. Everybody has different agendas. 588 00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:41,960 Speaker 1: But Monday, so Sunday's super Bowl, right Monday is the 589 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:45,719 Speaker 1: Iowa Caucus. Tuesdays the State of the Union. Bottom line is, 590 00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:47,440 Speaker 1: this is the best Mitch could do. And I think 591 00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:50,080 Speaker 1: Mitch McConnell did a brilliant job handle of this. I 592 00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:52,920 Speaker 1: really do bets on the Super Bowl before we go. Look, 593 00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:55,320 Speaker 1: I'm rooting for the Chiefs just because they beat the 594 00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:57,800 Speaker 1: Texans and so on that principle. If they go on 595 00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:00,000 Speaker 1: to win it all, I get to say the Texans 596 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,280 Speaker 1: the second best in in my reckond puem for the Falcons. 597 00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:05,680 Speaker 1: There we are, that's our show, that's the that's the 598 00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,120 Speaker 1: final verdict on the Super Bowl. We've got a whole 599 00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:15,280 Speaker 1: lot more coming out. I'm Michael knowles on, behalf of 600 00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:17,920 Speaker 1: Senator Lindsey Graham, so gracious to spend the night in 601 00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:21,080 Speaker 1: our bunker over here. Yeah, this is Verdict with Ted Cruz. 602 00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:32,720 Speaker 1: This episode of Verdict with Ted Cruz is being brought 603 00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:35,920 Speaker 1: to you by Jobs, Freedom and Security Pack, a political 604 00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:40,920 Speaker 1: action committee dedicated to supporting conservative causes, organizations, and candidates 605 00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:44,200 Speaker 1: across the country. In twenty twenty two, Jobs, Freedom and 606 00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:47,760 Speaker 1: Security Pack plans to donate to conservative candidates running for 607 00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:51,120 Speaker 1: Congress and help the Republican Party across the nation.