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Speaker 1: Media.

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Speaker 2: All right, y'all, welcome to Hood Politics with prop.

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Speaker 3: This is a part two episode of an episode that

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Speaker 3: happened a while back. This is the continuation of our

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Speaker 3: discussion with our brother James Stout. I had to take

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Speaker 3: a detour because of Epstein, and you know, I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I was starting to feel a way about how many

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Speaker 3: interviews I was having. I don't want y'all get mad

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Speaker 3: at me, so I was like, let's break it up

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Speaker 3: a little bit. But I do got a bunch of

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Speaker 3: more interviews coming because I don't know, man, it's a

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Speaker 3: lot of interesting people doing a lot of interesting stuff. Anyway,

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Speaker 3: So here go part two where I try to figure

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Speaker 3: out what actually radicalized somebody who is a colear I

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Speaker 3: mean translucent white boy into what he is now, My dog,

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Speaker 3: James Stout check us out.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, this leads me to my next question. You are,

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Speaker 2: I mean, like.

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Speaker 3: You bangers and mash white, like you mayn ain't sandwich white.

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Speaker 3: You understand what I'm saying, And so I'm I'm glad.

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Speaker 3: I'm glad we're here because this is like someone I'm

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Speaker 3: really interested around. I feel like our listeners too, like

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Speaker 3: especially just for the people of color that joined cool zone.

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Speaker 3: There are there are things about y'all that we're like,

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Speaker 3: huh where they.

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Speaker 2: Make square this circle for me?

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Speaker 3: Because so justice, you know, anti state, uh, resistance, the

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Speaker 3: reality of that, the reality of like having a chant

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Speaker 3: down Babylon. It's like these these realities aren't optional for

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Speaker 3: like a for us, you know what I mean, Like

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Speaker 3: my existence is illegal, my skin you know what I'm saying,

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Speaker 3: My DNA is illegal. So because of that, I'm you're

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Speaker 3: already drafted in.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 2: There's a you know as Zmlkday.

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Speaker 3: And one of the quotes that don't ever travel around

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Speaker 3: the country is when he was like, I'm tired of marching.

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Speaker 3: I'm tired of marching for stuff I should have got

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Speaker 3: at birth. I'm tired of this, you know what I'm saying. Like,

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Speaker 3: and he's like, I don't have this like martyrdom complex.

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Speaker 3: I want to live as long as y'all do, Joe

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Speaker 3: saying like basically he's like, I want to go to

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Speaker 3: fucking brunch.

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Speaker 2: I just want to go to brunch. You know what

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Speaker 2: I'm saying is basically what he's saying.

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Speaker 3: So, you know, and with people color, you know what

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Speaker 3: I'm saying, you could choose to like just start cooning

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Speaker 3: around here, you know, you could go to coon route,

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Speaker 3: which but the coon route itself still acknowledges the reality

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Speaker 3: of racism. You're still acknowledging that you the system ay

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Speaker 3: made for you. You just willing to dance for them, you

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Speaker 3: know what I'm saying. Uh, but for us that are

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Speaker 3: like no, I'm not gonna stand for this, Like it's

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Speaker 3: generally and quite literally it's so that I can just

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Speaker 3: be alive where I'm at, you know what I'm saying,

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Speaker 3: Like this isn't an option. I didn't get interested in this,

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Speaker 3: you know I'm saying, Yeah, so so yeah, you don't

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Speaker 3: choose it. So I'm like, how does how do you

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Speaker 3: go from? You know what I'm saying? Watching the footy match?

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Speaker 3: You feel me too on the border of like.

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Speaker 2: What was it? Like what cause you didn't have to

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Speaker 2: do this? Like this was a choice for you? You

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Speaker 2: know what I'm saying. I mean, I don't I guess

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Speaker 2: who radicalized you. I don't know what the thing is,

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Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 3: But I'm like, what, like walk me through, like just

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Speaker 3: like a one, two three, Like how do you how

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Speaker 3: do you go from that?

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Speaker 1: To Rojava, you know, yeah, being a baby leftist too,

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Speaker 1: I don't like I guess if I stop my story,

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Speaker 1: like it's uh. Two things that I think made me

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Speaker 1: the way that I am one is punk music like it.

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Speaker 1: So I like, like I did undergraduate Oxford, I have

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Speaker 1: a PhD. I think I learned more from punk music

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Speaker 1: they have learned in school, Like it taught me to

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Speaker 1: care about other people, right, Like there were always songs

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Speaker 1: about like, oh, look what the fuck the Americans did

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Speaker 1: in the US, did in South America, right Central America,

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Speaker 1: Like look what's going on in Africa? Where we behave

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Speaker 1: in this way? Like like solidarity was baked into punk

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Speaker 1: from its beginning, right and like Scar music, Like Scar

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Speaker 1: music they used to call it two tone music, right, yeah,

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Speaker 1: like it was wasn't it wasn't They weren't talking about

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Speaker 1: musical tones when they were on that ship.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And like that scene, at least at the time that

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Speaker 1: I was coming up in the UK or at the

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Speaker 1: early two thousands, was like consciously anti racist and anti

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Speaker 1: fascist and all those things. Before I guess people thought

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Speaker 1: that was bad. And then like I had, I had

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Speaker 1: a teacher in high school, I remember who he had

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Speaker 1: been part of the anti apartheid movement in South Africa. Wow, yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's a white dude, like like a I guess of Dutchens,

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Speaker 1: Africans and Afrikani. Yeah, but like very clearly this dude

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Speaker 1: had had it. Like that's the ultimate, like like the

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Speaker 1: choice choice.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that was a choice. Yeah yeah, Like you.

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Speaker 1: Literally have a piece of paper that you carry around

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Speaker 1: that says I am of a higher class of citizen

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Speaker 1: anybody who is not white, and you have to choose

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Speaker 1: to be Like, now, fuck this. I don't want that.

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Speaker 1: I don't want that for myself. I don't want that

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Speaker 1: for them. I don't want my children to grow up

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Speaker 1: in a world where this exists. And so like seeing

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Speaker 1: someone from me being like it is possible and like

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Speaker 1: not just possible, but it's a correct thing to do,

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Speaker 1: to be in solidarity and to oppose systems of oppression

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Speaker 1: even want to elevate you. And I know, like I

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Speaker 1: always I never felt like I had a particularly radical politics.

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Speaker 1: I still don't. Like I just think people should be

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Speaker 1: treated with dignity and respect. Yeah, Like it's not like

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Speaker 1: when I'm going down to the border, I'm not out there,

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Speaker 1: Like I don't like read crop popkin and get all

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Speaker 1: excited there. I just and I still don't think we

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Speaker 1: I hate I don't hate theory. That's wrong. We spend

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Speaker 1: far too much time thinking about theory and far too

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Speaker 1: little time helping people. And like, I just like helping people,

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Speaker 1: Like I like it when I get a chance to

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Speaker 1: help someone out, like that makes my day. Like I

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Speaker 1: enjoy that shit, I enjoy making friends. And yeah, like

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Speaker 1: I think I having the dedication in my book my

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Speaker 1: grandmother was arrested in Syria in the late nineteen forties.

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Speaker 1: My mother's mother, Right, she was in Lebanon and then

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Speaker 1: she crossed to Syria, and she'd been learning the language, right,

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Speaker 1: and then she rolls into Syria and the like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we straight up don't believe that a twenty one year

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Speaker 1: old woman from Liverpool. It's gally vibing out here.

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Speaker 2: That dedication.

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Speaker 3: It slowed me down from reading the book because I

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Speaker 3: was like, wait, like the just that one paragraph on

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Speaker 3: the top.

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Speaker 2: I was like this niggas grandma.

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Speaker 3: It was like almost a little bit like like kind

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Speaker 3: of little it tears. I was like, dang, man, you

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Speaker 3: just eat like onion, you got peel back onion.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, man, But my grandma and she thought every and

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Speaker 1: then both grandparents on both sides like they just like

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Speaker 1: Northern English people who come from like solid working class

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Speaker 1: and lower middle class communities where you can rely on people,

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Speaker 1: and they just took that around the world, just been

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Speaker 1: like yeah, like this is my neighbor. If I need something,

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Speaker 1: I last in, but they need something, they should ask me.

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Speaker 1: And like trying to carry that through my life.

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Speaker 2: You know, man, I think, yeah, that's a lesson to add.

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Speaker 3: So like all the little like young homies like look,

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Speaker 3: write your songs, you know, write you write your punk songs.

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Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying, Like, like write your songs, man,

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Speaker 3: Like that's crazy. And then also like have you considered

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Speaker 3: becoming a teacher? You know, like you know, because I

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Speaker 3: think for me too, Like I can name two teachers

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Speaker 3: mister Jeffrey and miss mister Jeffery three mister Jeffrey, Miss

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Speaker 3: Pilicky or mister Pilicky and Miss Cronin.

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Speaker 2: Like very much.

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Speaker 3: We're like, nah, bro, you not, don't just go get

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Speaker 3: it eight to five, Like nah, it's this world is

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Speaker 3: too big.

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Speaker 2: You got too much in you, you know what I mean?

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Speaker 3: And like that was very much, you know, and for me, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: hip hop, you know what I mean, Like hip hop

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Speaker 3: radicalized me, you know what I'm saying. So, uh man,

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Speaker 3: that's super super inspiring. So I'm gonna stay on. I'm

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Speaker 3: gonna stay on the whiteness for a little bit. It's

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Speaker 3: just so interesting to One of which is something that

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Speaker 3: mac Margaret said to me, like mag Pie goes.

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Speaker 2: About like anarchists.

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Speaker 3: Because I'm child of a black panther, I spent zero time,

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Speaker 3: no interest beyond what I had to do for my degree,

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Speaker 3: learning anything about Europe, like because I was like, I mean,

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Speaker 3: we're gonna have to do this, you know what I'm saying,

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Speaker 3: I'm not going to do it in my own time,

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Speaker 3: you know what I'm saying. I was like, y'all not

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Speaker 3: talking about Africa Yanstin, so I you know, I was

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Speaker 3: much more interested in, you know, movements having to do

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Speaker 3: with with us, you know what I'm saying. So I

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Speaker 3: didn't find out about like the anarchist movement, the leftist

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Speaker 3: movements in Europe until way later in my education, you

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Speaker 3: know what I'm saying, Like some of which were even

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Speaker 3: after I finished school, you know, where I was like,

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Speaker 3: wait what you know?

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Speaker 2: But one thing Margaret pointed out.

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Speaker 3: She was like, you have to remember everything that these

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Speaker 3: empires did to the rest of the world, what they

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Speaker 3: first practiced did on us.

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Speaker 2: You know, they just they did it today neighbors first.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 3: So when you look at like you know, some of

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Speaker 3: the French Revolution, when you look at like, you know,

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Speaker 3: any of the lot of the Eastern Slavic blocks, like

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Speaker 3: these people standing up or resisting, it was like, well,

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Speaker 3: that's because they tried it on us first, you know.

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Speaker 2: And man, I just that was.

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Speaker 3: Just like, man if I could if I could find

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Speaker 3: the you know, the multiverse world, you know, the parallel

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Speaker 3: universe where we didn't buy the like construction of whiteness

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Speaker 3: and really started communicating with each other, you know what

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Speaker 3: I mean to be like, yeah, hey, homie, hey look

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Speaker 3: they tried that last year.

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Speaker 2: You don't look this, this is what we did, you.

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Speaker 4: Know, like oh word, okay, you know, man, you.

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Speaker 1: See that a little bit in the Spanish Civil War,

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Speaker 1: right like so you see at the time when the

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Speaker 1: anarchists fighting with the republic, the anarchists being like, why

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Speaker 1: are we not fomenting revolution in North Africa? Why are

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Speaker 1: we not arming the people against the state and the

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Speaker 1: Republicans being like, yo, we're not going that far man,

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Speaker 1: Like this is a bit, this is a strictly like

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Speaker 1: we're gonna keep this beefle impitted, like we can't fuck

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Speaker 1: with empire.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

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Speaker 3: Had we just fucked with the empire, Like what a

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Speaker 3: different world we'd be in, speaking of which, Okay, so

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Speaker 3: the next thing and then I'm gonna move off and

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Speaker 3: get more into the to the to the meat of

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Speaker 3: what we're doing here is I think you may have

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Speaker 3: answered it already by having like the example of your

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Speaker 3: grandmother and they're also of this teacher of like, Okay,

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Speaker 3: so I obviously don't come from I come from a

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Speaker 3: metaphorically speaking war zone, not like an actual war zone,

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Speaker 3: you know what I'm saying. But like that was enough

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Speaker 3: for me to know I ain't going over there, like

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Speaker 3: you know, like that's not that's day, Like I am

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Speaker 3: not going over there. You know. I just wonder what

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Speaker 3: is it in you or a Robert like we have

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Speaker 3: jokes about like like white like just white men just

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Speaker 3: don't be fearing the unknown, like y'all just not scared

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Speaker 3: you just like I'll figure it out, Like and I'm

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Speaker 3: just like what why y'all just be going over there,

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Speaker 3: you know what I'm saying, Like why, Like what made

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Speaker 3: you feel like you was just gonna be all right?

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Speaker 3: Like it was just gonna work out, like.

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Speaker 1: I always think. I do feel like I'm going to

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Speaker 1: be a right leg I get it. It's not that

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Speaker 1: we don't get scared any I can't speak myself. I

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Speaker 1: don't get I get to get there are some things

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Speaker 1: that we have to be brave for, right there are

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Speaker 1: things that it's worth being scared for. And like the

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Speaker 1: things that I expose myself to are the things that

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Speaker 1: two year old children are exposed to every day in

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Speaker 1: those countries. Right, Like if I'm sitting under a sky

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Speaker 1: filled with drones, so are they like the little kids?

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Speaker 1: Like I go out and like, I guess some shit

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Speaker 1: I am. I no. I remember, I did a safety

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Speaker 1: briefing before I went to a sharp and I don't

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Speaker 1: go out the hotel before your fixer gets there. And

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Speaker 1: my fixer was sleeping in late and I'm a morning person.

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Speaker 1: So I'm out there. I'm at the hotel, I'm in

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Speaker 1: the market, I'm having coffee with people. I love that shit.

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Speaker 1: I'm playing soccer with the kids, you know, of course

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Speaker 1: that's what I'm going to do. If you put me

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Speaker 1: in a place, I'm going to find children and they're

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Speaker 1: going to humiliate me at a bull sport. But like

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Speaker 1: I guess they go through that every day, right, So

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Speaker 1: like I have to be brave because like I can't

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Speaker 1: understand it if I can't see it. So like it's

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Speaker 1: it's not that I don't think something bad could happen

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Speaker 1: to me. I understand that that's possible, right, Like I

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Speaker 1: know journalists who have been hurt, who have been killed,

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Speaker 1: but I also know that like if we don't go,

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Speaker 1: something bad will happen to those people, right, Like if

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Speaker 1: every journalist leaves when the drones strikes start, then who

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Speaker 1: documents what drone strikes do to little children? And what

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Speaker 1: does it mean if no one does that keep happening, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And like safety is a privilege that I can choose

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Speaker 1: to return to, whereas war is a reality that those

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Speaker 1: people can't escape. A Burmese friend I was talking to,

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Speaker 1: he was like, I hadn't realized that shit until you

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Speaker 1: wrote it in and the preface to your book. It's

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Speaker 1: just like I hadn't realized that, Like it's such a

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Speaker 1: strange realization for them to have that, like for us,

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Speaker 1: it's something we can visit and go back to, whereas

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Speaker 1: for them, it's like this is it, it's right, and

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Speaker 1: they either keep and until there's peace or look at

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Speaker 1: an example of meamba right, if you're not of the

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Speaker 1: majority ethnic group, or if you believe in human liberation

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Speaker 1: to any extent, yeah, you either keep fighting until you

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Speaker 1: destroy oppression or you accept that violence will be there

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Speaker 1: for the rest of your life until it ended.

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Speaker 2: I love that, man.

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Speaker 3: That that's the reality when I think of like when

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Speaker 3: I always say, like even when we did the live

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Speaker 3: taping of Bastards in Portland, when they were asking us like, yo,

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Speaker 3: like this news is terrible, how do you continue on?

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Speaker 2: For me?

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Speaker 3: I'm like, well, the fact that I'm I'm not a slave,

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Speaker 3: I'm saying that, like okay, so I know that it

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Speaker 3: It just takes a long time, but it can work,

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Speaker 3: you know, you just and yeah, my ancestors had that question,

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Speaker 3: was like, all right, look, are we just going to

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Speaker 3: stay like this or we keep fighting until we not?

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Speaker 2: You know? And yeah, bro, Like that's that's beautiful to know.

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Speaker 3: That's sort of like understan standing of empathy of just

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Speaker 3: like bro, what are you gonna do? Like, which is

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Speaker 3: probably gonna leave me to my last question, but I

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Speaker 3: got to hold off on that and kind of dig

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Speaker 3: in a little more here.

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Speaker 2: This is the last white question.

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Speaker 3: All right, Okay, In what ways do you think that

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Speaker 3: like that that cisgendered white male helped or hurt and

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Speaker 3: even in just being able to because I feel like

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Speaker 3: there's times where like, Okay, I'm like, you, I speak

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Speaker 3: fluent Spanish. You know what I'm saying. I live, I

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Speaker 3: live in live in East LA. You know what I'm saying, Like,

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Speaker 3: no matter how many co signs I get from the

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Speaker 3: Vetadinalds in my neighborhood, at some point, it's gonna get

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Speaker 3: to a door and they're gonna be like, hold up, nah,

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Speaker 3: you can't come. You know what I'm saying. And it's

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Speaker 3: just like it and I have to respect it. I'm like,

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Speaker 3: all right, you know, I mean, I get it, you

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Speaker 3: know what I'm saying. So I just wonder in what

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Speaker 3: ways have like were their experiences like that? And then

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Speaker 3: also were there ways where you may have gotten the past?

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Speaker 2: You know what I mean?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely, Like I think it is easier for me

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Speaker 1: to move around the world right, both in terms of

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Speaker 1: like I can get visas from most most spot's pretty easy, right,

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Speaker 1: I can be you know, like generally positive assumptions are

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Speaker 1: made about me because of the way that I enter

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Speaker 1: a space as cis gender white man, right, Like in

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Speaker 1: some spaces you stand out like that was not to

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Speaker 1: my knowledge, Like you know, when I'm walking around that market, right,

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Speaker 1: there's another white dude in the market, like everyone's but

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Speaker 1: like I think, then you have to how are you

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Speaker 1: going to meet that that moment? Right, Like yeah, everyone's

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Speaker 1: going to be like, holy shit, what's this doing in

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Speaker 1: the market. I'm six foot three, right, so I'm also

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Speaker 1: like a good amount taller. Yes, yeah, yeah, So like

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Speaker 1: I can just be like hey, hey, hey go way,

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Speaker 1: go away, go away, or like I can be like, yo,

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Speaker 1: what's up? What you got there? I was like watermelon,

330
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Speaker 1: like to explain that what's the best watermelon? Show me? How?

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Speaker 1: How how do I find the best water mel? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Like you like, yeah, I'll drink some tea with you. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'll sit in this chair which is designed for a

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Speaker 1: fucking toddler, Like you'll laugh because I'm going to eat ship. Yeah,

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00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:05,400
Speaker 1: like for other backwards right, because my knees don't bend

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Speaker 1: that far, like, and then we'll have a good time.

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Speaker 1: And like, I know, I'm always just trying to be

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Speaker 1: a friend, I guess, yeah, so like in that sense, yeah,

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00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:19,000
Speaker 1: you're always going to meet I don't know though, Like

340
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Speaker 1: I'm thinking about something that's not in the book that

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Speaker 1: like last year is in the Daddy and Gap right

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Speaker 1: with migrants coming, uh people attempting to talk to you.

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Speaker 3: By the way, and did you see it got a

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Speaker 3: shout out in in pluribis Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Man, I never knew what Pluribus was until everyone was

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Speaker 1: asking me about Pluribus.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you got it.

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Speaker 3: But the but the Darien Gap got a shout out. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: so there's this yeah, without without any spoilers. I even

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00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:42,960
Speaker 3: brought it up to my wife, who, like, I can't

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Speaker 3: believe she didn't know. I was like, he was supposed

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Speaker 3: to be driving the character is supposed to be driving

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Speaker 3: up from like from Peru, and I was like, he

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Speaker 3: can't do that. I was like, he can't drive up

355
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Speaker 3: from Peru. You have to go through the Dairyen Gap

356
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Speaker 3: and she was like the Darien Gap. I was like, bro,

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Speaker 3: like the homie James did a whole thing or you know, saying.

358
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Speaker 3: I was like, you can't. It's a jungle. You can't

359
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Speaker 3: drive through it. And she was like huh And sure enough,

360
00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:05,240
Speaker 3: like later on in that episode he gets to it,

361
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Speaker 3: and I.

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Speaker 2: Was like, I'll time say, oh my god, there it is.

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Speaker 2: And then she went down this rabbit hole.

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Speaker 3: She was like, you know, she found like all these

365
00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:15,360
Speaker 3: different Spanish podcasts about it anyway anyway, but yeah.

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Speaker 2: You were down there, continues the story, like you do.

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Speaker 1: I will get to it. I'm trying not to push

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Speaker 1: to a place where they're like, yeah, this isn't your space,

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Speaker 1: You're not welcome here. But when I'm with those people, right,

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Speaker 1: like I speak Spanish, I spent I spent a deal

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Speaker 1: of time in Venezuela when I was younger. Like, if

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Speaker 1: they're walking through the jungle, I'm gonna walk with them.

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Speaker 1: If someone needs to carry their child, I'm going to

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Speaker 1: carry their child. If their bag gets too heavy, I'm

375
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Speaker 1: going to put their bag on my back. Like I'm

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00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:45,199
Speaker 1: doing what I can. And still different, right because at

377
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Speaker 1: the end of that, I go on a plane and

378
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Speaker 1: I come back to America. Yeah, and I crack out

379
00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:52,879
Speaker 1: my passport and that's what it is. But like I

380
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Speaker 1: guess I just try and approach it as a friend.

381
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Speaker 1: And like in that moment, like I remember I had

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Speaker 1: taken this water of and like we got to this

383
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Speaker 1: point where basically a bunch of people are going to

384
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Speaker 1: be just like chilling in the first indigenous village that

385
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Speaker 1: we got to and then taking a boat, and basically

386
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Speaker 1: a bunch of the dudes were like, yeah, look here's

387
00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:16,760
Speaker 1: a deal. The boat cross eggs and we haven't got

388
00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:19,480
Speaker 1: that for my whole family. So I'm yeah, generally the

389
00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:21,800
Speaker 1: indigenous people will take the women and the children even

390
00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:24,040
Speaker 1: if they can't pay for it. But the guys are like,

391
00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:27,040
Speaker 1: you're going to have to hump it. And I remember

392
00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:28,840
Speaker 1: just being like, well, it makes more sense for them

393
00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:30,679
Speaker 1: to have this water filter than it does for me

394
00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:32,679
Speaker 1: to have it. Right, Yes, I'm going back to America.

395
00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:34,679
Speaker 1: So I'm just like opening up my bag and I'm like, Yo,

396
00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:36,240
Speaker 1: what do you guys need? You need this water filter?

397
00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:38,919
Speaker 1: Like you should take it? Do you need you know,

398
00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:44,560
Speaker 1: like a granola bar? I can get another word. But

399
00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:47,760
Speaker 1: just trying not to be like separate from and outside

400
00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:51,440
Speaker 1: of that community for that time that I'm with them,

401
00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:57,040
Speaker 1: I feel like that helps in just like establishing that

402
00:20:57,160 --> 00:20:59,919
Speaker 1: like I'm not and no, journalism could be an extractive process, right,

403
00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:02,960
Speaker 1: I guess I should have started there. It can be

404
00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:05,600
Speaker 1: a colonial experience, right. You go somewhere, you take the

405
00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:07,280
Speaker 1: ship that you want and you leave and you don't

406
00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:08,200
Speaker 1: care about the people.

407
00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:08,760
Speaker 2: Yeah.

408
00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:13,000
Speaker 1: Right, And I'm super conscious of that. I have been

409
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Speaker 1: for a long time.

410
00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:56,679
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you you you you nailed it in

411
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Speaker 3: the sense that like you we.

412
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Speaker 2: I mean the royal we.

413
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Speaker 3: You know what you know, you know, when the white

414
00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:10,320
Speaker 3: boy ain't comfortable, you know what I'm saying. You know,

415
00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:12,240
Speaker 3: when he's scared, you know what I'm saying, and then

416
00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:15,840
Speaker 3: there's a but there's such a respect for that person

417
00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:19,000
Speaker 3: that can just that can sit in the trap, you know,

418
00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:22,000
Speaker 3: and just like and just be here, you know, not

419
00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:24,320
Speaker 3: trying to be something you not. You're not pretending to be,

420
00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:27,439
Speaker 3: you know what I'm saying, Like, yeah, you're authentic. Like

421
00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:29,800
Speaker 3: you know when somebody pretending, you know, when they cosplaying,

422
00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:32,440
Speaker 3: when they trying to like they're trying to fit in,

423
00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:34,919
Speaker 3: rather than them just being themselves and being comfortable, you know,

424
00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:41,560
Speaker 3: like those are they they?

425
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Speaker 2: I mean, it was my experience for you.

426
00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:44,919
Speaker 3: It's like you just gained such a respect for somebody

427
00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:47,359
Speaker 3: to be like, oh, he's okay over here, like you

428
00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:50,359
Speaker 3: know what I'm saying, Like you're not spraying hand sanitizer

429
00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:52,719
Speaker 3: on your hand every every time you shit, like, bro,

430
00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:54,920
Speaker 3: I'm good. Like I probably I probably would have thought

431
00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:57,080
Speaker 3: so muchy like all right, I'm good, you know. But like,

432
00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:02,320
Speaker 3: but that metaphorically, you know, or as a symbolically is like, yeah, no,

433
00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:05,879
Speaker 3: he's he's entering this space as he's in, like you

434
00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:07,480
Speaker 3: said that you're coming in as a friend.

435
00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:08,320
Speaker 2: Okay.

436
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:11,679
Speaker 3: So so lastly, because we're almost we're almost in an

437
00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:14,920
Speaker 3: hour now, I know. Right, it's been a good talk.

438
00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:17,360
Speaker 3: Uh maybe I'll split it up. You know what I'm saying,

439
00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:17,920
Speaker 3: get two out of it.

440
00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:19,320
Speaker 1: I got a couple of dades.

441
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:20,000
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying.

442
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:27,640
Speaker 3: I it is very American of me, and just acknowledging

443
00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:32,280
Speaker 3: my americanness to look at this and say, oh cool,

444
00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:36,639
Speaker 3: this whole book was written to teach me about ourselves.

445
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:40,800
Speaker 3: Like rather than it being like satisfactory within itself, this

446
00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:44,320
Speaker 3: is their stories and you, and it's and there's value

447
00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:47,399
Speaker 3: in just knowing their stories, Like there's value in that

448
00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:49,640
Speaker 3: that their stories need to be told and they are

449
00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:50,920
Speaker 3: not one to one ratios.

450
00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:53,720
Speaker 2: You know, there's value in that.

451
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:57,480
Speaker 3: That said, I am also a homo sapien, and who

452
00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:03,800
Speaker 3: don't who is going to try to extract meaning for

453
00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:07,040
Speaker 3: my own life.

454
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:07,920
Speaker 2: From the stories around me? That's just human, you know

455
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:08,440
Speaker 2: what I'm saying.

456
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:14,560
Speaker 3: So I guess what I'm asking is like, what are

457
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:18,600
Speaker 3: if obviously don't ruin the book? Like I want people

458
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:20,600
Speaker 3: to like go on this journey, you know what I'm saying,

459
00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:23,239
Speaker 3: and like meet these people, love these people, fall in

460
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:25,480
Speaker 3: love with the people you're talking about who are real people,

461
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:30,560
Speaker 3: you know. And I guess what I'm asking is like

462
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:36,639
Speaker 3: what can what can America learn? You know, especially us

463
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:39,760
Speaker 3: who like care about justice and laws? I know, for me,

464
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:42,960
Speaker 3: it's like the thing that I've been continually trying to

465
00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:46,639
Speaker 3: hammer is like revolution is boring. It is slow, it

466
00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 3: is tedious, it is top down and bottom up.

467
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:50,200
Speaker 2: It's both.

468
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:54,040
Speaker 3: It's grassroots and it's you know, corporate office, it's god,

469
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:55,720
Speaker 3: it is all of it, you know what I'm saying.

470
00:24:56,160 --> 00:25:01,520
Speaker 3: But I wasn't in and me and mar you know,

471
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:04,040
Speaker 3: I'm saying like that wasn't there, you were there? So like,

472
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:08,280
Speaker 3: what what can America learn from from these people.

473
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:14,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, I am, I read. I translated this piece for

474
00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:17,520
Speaker 1: a for a Zene a few years ago. It's called

475
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:20,680
Speaker 1: Refuting the Legends, but it's a guy called Louis Mercier

476
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:25,520
Speaker 1: Vega actual name's actual name is Charles Riddle. I think

477
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:28,600
Speaker 1: he referred to himself as a constellation of acronyms, which

478
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:30,080
Speaker 1: I think is kind of a beautiful phrasing.

479
00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:31,760
Speaker 2: Dope phrase, Yeah, I.

480
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:36,320
Speaker 1: Think it's really beautiful, as many anarchists were at that time, right, yeah,

481
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:38,399
Speaker 1: because that's how they moved, and that's how he went

482
00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 1: through spaces. He was part of a French anarchist group

483
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:46,000
Speaker 1: called the Waff Alliance and dope. Yeah, also a sick name, right,

484
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:46,800
Speaker 1: This guy's gifted.

485
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:47,800
Speaker 2: Yeah.

486
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:50,840
Speaker 1: So he as a very young person fought in the

487
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 1: Spanish Revolution with the International Group in the deg Calum

488
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:57,960
Speaker 1: and he survived. Later went on to do many other things, right,

489
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:02,359
Speaker 1: with many other names, And he's writing this piece later

490
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 1: in his life about like if we just look at

491
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:09,440
Speaker 1: what we did in Spain as heroics and legend, then

492
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:14,040
Speaker 1: we miss that we lost and that a lot of

493
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 1: people died, and if they died for something, it has

494
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 1: to be something that we can learn, right, we have

495
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:23,920
Speaker 1: to learn, like where did they screw up? What did

496
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:25,800
Speaker 1: they do wrong? Like if we want their desk to

497
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:29,159
Speaker 1: mean something that, we can't just make them saints, right,

498
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:33,760
Speaker 1: we have to make them examples. And like I thought

499
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:36,600
Speaker 1: that was a really beautiful way as someone who has

500
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:41,760
Speaker 1: friends who have died, right, as someone who has struggled

501
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:45,560
Speaker 1: with loss, Like I still there's a tendency in journalism

502
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:49,560
Speaker 1: to become like hardened and unfeeling. People have these groups

503
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:52,200
Speaker 1: where they talk laugh about stuff Like I don't laugh

504
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 1: about that shit that there's people friends and I care

505
00:26:54,520 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 1: about them. But like I think we have to learn

506
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 1: and from these And I don't mean like we're not

507
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:06,720
Speaker 1: learning that the nitty gritty of like military tactics. We're

508
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 1: learning how do people organize in a stressful situation where

509
00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 1: the stakes are high? How do they take care of

510
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:18,240
Speaker 1: each other in a situation which is inherently brutalizing, right,

511
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 1: how do they continue to build joy and beauty into

512
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,040
Speaker 1: everything they do? Like I had one thing that really

513
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:30,159
Speaker 1: struck with me. We're in place in Kurdistan ray and

514
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:32,800
Speaker 1: it's nighttime and they're doing drowned strikes in the region,

515
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:36,800
Speaker 1: so we're not going outside which is not a good idea. Right.

516
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:39,639
Speaker 1: So I'm hanging out with these A ZD people, the

517
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:43,040
Speaker 1: CD people who were they are their ethnic group that

518
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:45,280
Speaker 1: were subjected to genocide by one of the ethnic groups

519
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:49,040
Speaker 1: subjected genocide by the Islamic state, right, And we're hanging

520
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 1: out and like they don't know if they knew that

521
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:53,080
Speaker 1: it was just going to be a bad vibe to

522
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:56,719
Speaker 1: go outside, or if they just this is how they

523
00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,720
Speaker 1: moved through the world when they travel. But like they

524
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 1: had like a tamboo, right, It's like, yeah, I.

525
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:05,959
Speaker 2: Don't want to explain it, explain it for the listeners.

526
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:09,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, So it's it's like a guitar. It's well

527
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 1: like a banjo, I guess, because you've got strings coming

528
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:12,800
Speaker 1: in halfway down the neck and then you've got like

529
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:15,920
Speaker 1: a big bowl on the bottom, like a gord almost.

530
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:18,680
Speaker 1: I think the English word is like loodle something like that.

531
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:23,080
Speaker 1: Kurtish word is tambure. And a songbook. Right, And we'd

532
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:26,719
Speaker 1: sat there for like hours. They're teaching me their songs, right,

533
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 1: They've given it to me. I'm playing seven Nation Army

534
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 1: because I can only play on one string, right, because

535
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:35,000
Speaker 1: the strings a difference. Yeah, yeah, And They're like, oh,

536
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 1: it's this one of your traditional songs, and I'm like, yeah.

537
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:39,520
Speaker 2: We'll use that loosely.

538
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:42,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, so tradition to drink like seven pints and the

539
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 1: back of the bus ever yeah, on the London underground.

540
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:52,720
Speaker 1: But it was like I don't know why, but it

541
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:57,160
Speaker 1: just struck me how the things the Azidis have been through, right, yeah,

542
00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 1: indescribable suffering. Yeah, And like they were like, yeah, well

543
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:03,440
Speaker 1: we're going to be in a place where we're stuck

544
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:05,000
Speaker 1: around if it's going to be drawn strikes, and then

545
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:07,560
Speaker 1: we'll better bring the tamboura in the song books.

546
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the thought.

547
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:10,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, so that we can have a nice time,

548
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:14,320
Speaker 1: like like in it it would be so easy to

549
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:16,840
Speaker 1: be miserable all the time, right, And they got God,

550
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 1: we could do with that now, right, or like yeah

551
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:21,960
Speaker 1: in the desert. I remember one night a group of

552
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:25,840
Speaker 1: Kurdish people had arrived at one of the migrant camps

553
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 1: we were at. They they like, you know, I have

554
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 1: I have a little tiny bit of courtdash, so I'd

555
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:34,240
Speaker 1: engage a little tiny bit of Curdish. We've been working

556
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 1: together to build shelters, and we get downe building shelters

557
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 1: and they're like, oh, well, now there's the town. We

558
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 1: should do some dancing, like it's going to be a long,

559
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 1: cold night like like all have. Yeah, and they like

560
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:49,920
Speaker 1: we had like I remember we had Curdish people. We

561
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 1: had this guy who was Wiga, right, generally muslim methnic

562
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 1: group in China, and it was just really beautiful, like

563
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:03,280
Speaker 1: and so that's something we can take from this, right,

564
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:06,000
Speaker 1: It's like, even in dark times, we can do beautiful things,

565
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:08,560
Speaker 1: and we shouldn't forget to do beautiful things.

566
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:11,480
Speaker 2: Even in dark times, we can do beautiful things. Yeah.

567
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:16,280
Speaker 3: Nah, that's the bar we're ending right there, man, James,

568
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:18,160
Speaker 3: thank you for doing this. Thank you for this book.

569
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:21,440
Speaker 3: I'm gonna go back in on my own time and

570
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:24,640
Speaker 3: not like rush through this book. I'm gonna sit with

571
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 3: your dog. So please tell them when is it dropping?

572
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:29,080
Speaker 3: Word of getting it all that good stuff?

573
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:32,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, so should be coming out of the twentieth of January.

574
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 1: You can find it a kpress dot org. It's a

575
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 1: slash against typhen the hyphen state, or if you go

576
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:42,719
Speaker 1: to ak press dot org and it'll probably be there

577
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 1: on the front page. Anywhere good books are sold, you

578
00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:47,960
Speaker 1: can get it. You could buy it from Jeff Bezos

579
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:51,200
Speaker 1: if you really had to. Yeah, and look, yeah, if

580
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:54,160
Speaker 1: you're if you're struggling, you know, and you're finding it

581
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:56,600
Speaker 1: hard financially, like, you can just go to your library

582
00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 1: and ask them to get it too. That's totally fine.

583
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:00,080
Speaker 1: I would love that. I would love for it to

584
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 1: be in the library for the next person. So yeah,

585
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:05,280
Speaker 1: I'd be happy if you did that. If you're rich

586
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:06,960
Speaker 1: by ten of them, man, put them in at the

587
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 1: libraries that people.

588
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 2: On the side of the road.

589
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, I might have to do that,

590
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:14,920
Speaker 3: you know, start radicalizing some of these farmers' markets.

591
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:15,480
Speaker 1: Yeah.

592
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:19,880
Speaker 3: Man, anyway, bro, thank you so much for doing this. Manna,

593
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 3: this is perfect. Yeah, thanks thanks to talk all right, peace, peace,

594
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:40,160
Speaker 3: all right, Now, don't you hit stop on this pod.

595
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:42,520
Speaker 3: You better listen to these credits. I need you to

596
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:44,560
Speaker 3: finish this thing so I can get.

597
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:49,640
Speaker 2: The download numbers. Okay, so don't stop it yet, but listen.

598
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:53,680
Speaker 3: This was recorded in East Lost Boyle Heights by your

599
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:57,040
Speaker 3: boy Propaganda. Tap in with me at prop hip hop

600
00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:00,200
Speaker 3: dot com. If you're in the cold Brew coffee we

601
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 3: got terraform Coldbrew. You can go there dot com and

602
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 3: use promo code hood get twenty percent off, get yourself

603
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 3: some coffee. This was mixed, edited, and mastered by your

604
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 3: boy Matt Alsowski Killing the Beat Softly. Check out his

605
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 3: website Matdowsowski dot com.

606
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:20,120
Speaker 2: I'm a speller for you because I know M A.

607
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:25,800
Speaker 3: T T O S O W s ki dot com

608
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:28,680
Speaker 3: Matthowsowski dot com. He got more music and stuff like

609
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 3: that on there, so gonna check out The Heat Politics

610
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:35,560
Speaker 3: is a member of cool Zone Media, executive produced by

611
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 3: Sophie Lichterman, part of the iHeartMedia podcast network. Your theme

612
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:44,120
Speaker 3: music and scoring is also by the one and overly Mattowsowski.

613
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:48,040
Speaker 3: Still killing the beat softly, So listen, don't let nobody

614
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 3: lie to you. If you understand urban living, you understand politics.

615
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:53,160
Speaker 3: These people is not smarter than you.

616
00:32:53,520 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 2: We'll see y'all next week.

617
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:06,360
Speaker 3: See the