WEBVTT - Short Stuff: Botox Brain

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, and welcome to the Short Stuff. I'm Josh, and

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<v Speaker 1>there's Chuck and jar Jar Binks is here too, and

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<v Speaker 1>that makes this short stuff. She's sitting in for dave C.

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<v Speaker 1>Everybody say hi to dave C. He'll be glad to

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<v Speaker 1>hear that later on.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, and this is not about Pinky in the brain.

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<v Speaker 2>It's about Botox in the brain.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, it is.

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<v Speaker 2>Because when I saw Botox in the brain, I was like,

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<v Speaker 2>that sounds like a TV show, but I was like, no,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm just thinking Pinky in the brain.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, Botox in the Brain is a cop show, not

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<v Speaker 1>a cartoon.

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<v Speaker 2>Big thanks to Helio and Live Science very well, health

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<v Speaker 2>study findes, Neuroscience News and other sources. Take it away, Josh.

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<v Speaker 1>So we're talking about botox, right. Botox, I believe is

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<v Speaker 1>a brand name, but it's like Kleenex. It's become a

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<v Speaker 1>proprietary eponym, is it really, Yes for sure. Yeah. There's

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<v Speaker 1>all sorts of different brands of botox, like Disport and

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<v Speaker 1>there's plenty of others, but what they all are is

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<v Speaker 1>theinum toxin or BTX, and that is produced by Clostridium

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<v Speaker 1>boculinum and botulism. Anybody who's ever seen dead calm knows

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<v Speaker 1>what botulism is and how horrible it's supposed to be.

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<v Speaker 1>But it's a bacteria that grows in the absence of air,

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<v Speaker 1>typically on food. I think beef is like a real

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<v Speaker 1>big grower of botulism, which is why if you ever

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<v Speaker 1>have like a dented can of beef stew, just throw

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<v Speaker 1>it away because it could kill you. Because bochulin or yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>boculinum toxin is the most potent neurotoxin known to humans.

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<v Speaker 1>And the reason it's so potent, chuck is it goes

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<v Speaker 1>in there into your nerve cells and it binds to them,

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<v Speaker 1>and in particular, it binds to nerve cells where your

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<v Speaker 1>blood and your muscles meat, which is usually fairly close

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<v Speaker 1>to the skin, and it blocks the setylcholine from coming

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<v Speaker 1>and getting into those the ends of those nerve cells,

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<v Speaker 1>which means that those nerve cells just don't function, which

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<v Speaker 1>means that your muscle are paralyzed, which is bad enough

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<v Speaker 1>when it starts in your mouth, but then it goes

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<v Speaker 1>to your throat and eventually your lungs, and then you

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<v Speaker 1>die a really terrible death from botulism. So it's of

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<v Speaker 1>course totally unsurprising that somebody figured out that you could

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<v Speaker 1>use this incredibly potent neurotoxin to get rid of wrinkles.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, using botulism met I'm sorry, Well, I guess it

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<v Speaker 2>is bochlism. Using botox medically came around the seventies with

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<v Speaker 2>doctor Alan B. Scott, who went to the FDA and said, Hey,

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<v Speaker 2>I think I can treat strabismus, which is I guess wandering.

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<v Speaker 2>I could be a lazy way of saying that or

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<v Speaker 2>lazy eye. Sure, and said I think I can treat

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<v Speaker 2>strabismus with this. FDA said, have at it. He would

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<v Speaker 2>inject it locally in the face. One thing that did

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<v Speaker 2>was prove that it was safe to do relatively speaking,

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<v Speaker 2>and it could treat muscle disorders. And then starting in

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<v Speaker 2>the two thousands is when it really came on the

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<v Speaker 2>scene with setians doing what we all think of as

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<v Speaker 2>you know Botox's main function now, which is you get

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<v Speaker 2>these injections locally and very specific places in your face usually,

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<v Speaker 2>and it takes three or four days, and then all

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<v Speaker 2>of a sudden, for about three months, you will be

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<v Speaker 2>walking around with a forehead smooth as a shiny apple

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<v Speaker 2>and an expression that says nothing.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, you can really get a good poker face from

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<v Speaker 1>around a bowtox. Yeah, so, yeah, it just relaxes those

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<v Speaker 1>muscles that cause the wrinkles, say around your eyes, around

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<v Speaker 1>your mouth, and your forehead in between your brow in particular,

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<v Speaker 1>those are called your elevens, and by paralyzing those muscles,

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<v Speaker 1>it relaxes them and hence the wrinkles aren't there anymore.

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<v Speaker 1>And like you said, it lasts for about three to

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<v Speaker 1>four months. And because you can't, you have just like

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<v Speaker 1>a blank face in a lot of ways, depending on

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<v Speaker 1>where you get the botox injection. You can't really smile,

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<v Speaker 1>like you physically are incapable of smiling because the muscles

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<v Speaker 1>involved are paralyzed. More often, you can't really frown or

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<v Speaker 1>furrow your brow because those muscles are paralyzed. And so right,

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<v Speaker 1>like right off the bat, people started reporting that if

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<v Speaker 1>you saw somebody with boatox, they couldn't express emotion using

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<v Speaker 1>their faces anymore for that three to four month period.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And to be clear, like you know, you can

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<v Speaker 2>make the shape of a smile with your mouth and

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<v Speaker 2>the shape of a smile or a frown with your mouth,

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<v Speaker 2>but what people you know, I think people realize this

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<v Speaker 2>is about say what people don't realize, but when you

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<v Speaker 2>think about it, is what I meant to say. You

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<v Speaker 2>express emotion with your faces. You smile and frown with

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<v Speaker 2>your face, not just your mouth. Sure, your mouth may

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<v Speaker 2>go up, your mouth may I guess, go down or

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<v Speaker 2>express upsettedness, But it's really you know, people smile with

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<v Speaker 2>their eyes and their faces and you know, like you said,

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<v Speaker 2>your brow gets furrowed. It's a whole face experience, which

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<v Speaker 2>is a great album title. Yeah, and botox. That's what

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<v Speaker 2>it cuts off. And that's what can be kind of

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<v Speaker 2>creepy looking, is when someone is smiling with their mouth

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<v Speaker 2>but the rest of their face is dead and it's

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<v Speaker 2>a little strange.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, played a great effect in Insidious, Right, I love

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<v Speaker 1>that stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>Should we take a break because this is where things

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<v Speaker 2>get super interesting?

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<v Speaker 1>Yes? I agree, Yes, all right, we'll be right back, so, Chuck.

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<v Speaker 1>It makes sense that you can't really read someone's emotions

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<v Speaker 1>through their face after they've gotten a pretty good round

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<v Speaker 1>of botox. But there was something stranger that stood to

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<v Speaker 1>come in as reports from people who got botox injections

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<v Speaker 1>or other kinds of bachulin injections that they weren't experiencing

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<v Speaker 1>emotions like they used to, and in particular, this showed

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<v Speaker 1>up most pronouncedly in people who suffered from depression. They

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<v Speaker 1>started to notice that after they got botox injections in

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<v Speaker 1>certain parts of their face, especially around their forehead and

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<v Speaker 1>their brows, called the glabular region, their depression symptoms, if

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<v Speaker 1>they didn't, if they weren't alleviated totally, they were certainly

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<v Speaker 1>less pronounced than they have been before. And this was

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<v Speaker 1>a little odd.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, definitely a little bit odd. But so again, we're

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<v Speaker 2>not talking about showing emotion, we're talking about actually feeling

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<v Speaker 2>the emotion. Right, But there's this thing and it all

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<v Speaker 2>kind of makes sense when you look at the big

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<v Speaker 2>picture called the facial feedback hypothesis. Yes, and a very

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<v Speaker 2>sh dumb down way of saying it is that the

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<v Speaker 2>idea of like, hey, if you're feeling depressed, maybe just

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<v Speaker 2>try smiling more because that can actually work, and they've

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<v Speaker 2>done research on stuff like this. One way it can,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, manifests itself is we have this tendency to

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<v Speaker 2>mimic expressions of other people near us. And it's and

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<v Speaker 2>it probably comes from just evolution of like wanting to

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<v Speaker 2>fit in in a group and like, maybe so you

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<v Speaker 2>won't be killed like everyone else here is smiling it

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<v Speaker 2>that guy's and laughing at his joke, so I'm gonna

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<v Speaker 2>do the same thing, so I just fit in better.

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<v Speaker 2>And it's that facial feedback hypothesis at work, where it's

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<v Speaker 2>sort of this feedback loop of smiling from someone else

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<v Speaker 2>will usually lend to a smile even if you're not

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<v Speaker 2>feeling it especially happy. I'm not saying like everyone's in

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<v Speaker 2>a good mood so they're smiling, but literally just smiling

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<v Speaker 2>because someone else in is smiling, and then that will

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<v Speaker 2>in turn and generally make your emotions pick up as well.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and the opposite can be true too. If you're

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<v Speaker 1>scowling or you see someone else scowling, you mimic their

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<v Speaker 1>scowl unconsciously, it will have a depressed state on your mood, right.

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<v Speaker 1>And that's really interesting because people always thought that facial

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<v Speaker 1>expressions reflected what you felt inside, not vice versa. But

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<v Speaker 1>there's it definitely goes both ways, and that's the facial

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<v Speaker 1>feedback hypothesis. So when people started saying, like, my depression

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<v Speaker 1>symptoms are kind of alleviated when I get botox, they

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<v Speaker 1>chalked it up to facial feedback, and in particular, what

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<v Speaker 1>they suspected is that with your brow area, the glabular region,

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<v Speaker 1>so it's like the area right above the bridge of

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<v Speaker 1>your nose up to you know, and kind of spreading

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<v Speaker 1>out like a Jonathan Adler fan above your eyebrows for

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, yeah, that's the you cut me off in traffic

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<v Speaker 2>zone of my face exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, put chuck, that's the new name of it. I

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<v Speaker 1>would say, if you get injections in that area, it

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<v Speaker 1>actually has an effect on your amygdala. A migdala is

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<v Speaker 1>the seed of your fight or flight just famous friend

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<v Speaker 1>of the podcast Fight or Flight, yeah response early days. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>it's the seed of negative emotions like anger, fear, anxiety,

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<v Speaker 1>and if you have depression, your amygdala is overactive and

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<v Speaker 1>it causes you to develop a bias toward interpreting the

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<v Speaker 1>world negatively and yourself negatively. And what they posited was

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<v Speaker 1>that botox short circuited that feedback loop by paralyzing the

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<v Speaker 1>muscles that trigger your amygdala to experience negative emotions or

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<v Speaker 1>produce negative emotions.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and not necessarily that it can completely take away

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<v Speaker 2>those emotions, but it tamps it down and makes things

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<v Speaker 2>less intense. And so they you know, they basically stumbled

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<v Speaker 2>upon this saying where they can actually treat depression through

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<v Speaker 2>botox and checktions.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, which is it's huge because it's not directly it's

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<v Speaker 1>not like they're injecting the needle into your amygdala and

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<v Speaker 1>inserting the botox. The botox is just acting on your muscles,

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<v Speaker 1>but it's indirectly acting on your amygdala, which makes it

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<v Speaker 1>a much safer treatment than save pharma that acts directly

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<v Speaker 1>on your amygdala chemically.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and they've co this isn't just from talking to

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<v Speaker 2>people and getting that kind of feedback. This has been

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<v Speaker 2>confirmed in the Wonder machine and the fMRI. They've confirmed

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<v Speaker 2>these findings. They basically the scan showed different kinds of

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<v Speaker 2>altered activity in the amygdala if you were a depressed

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<v Speaker 2>patient who got those injections. And you know, they basically

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<v Speaker 2>are saying this is like a real thing now.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, So yes, they've they've shown that it alters the

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<v Speaker 1>activity in the amygdala, and not just patients with depression,

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<v Speaker 1>but people who have borderline personality disorder as well.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's really interesting.

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<v Speaker 1>I think they're amygdala is on hyperdrive and The thing

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<v Speaker 1>that makes it different from Russian is that it's also

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<v Speaker 1>coupled with lower impulsivity threshold, so they're much more likely

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<v Speaker 1>to lash out at people around them with those negative emotions,

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<v Speaker 1>which is what we talked about in our Emotional pain episode.

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<v Speaker 1>Why it's just such a terrible disorder to have. But

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<v Speaker 1>it's their amygdala being hyperactive as well. And so they've

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<v Speaker 1>found that botox injections in the right place can actually

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<v Speaker 1>reduce or eliminate BPD as well, at least for the

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<v Speaker 1>three to four months until your muscles come back online

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<v Speaker 1>and are able to trigger those emotions again.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and if you're an adherent of acupuncture and you think, hey,

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<v Speaker 2>this sounds kind of familiar, it's sort of along the

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<v Speaker 2>same lines. They did comparison group treatments with acupuncture patients.

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<v Speaker 2>In acupuncture, it did show improve clinical symptoms, but it

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<v Speaker 2>did not hold up under the Wonder machine examination.

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<v Speaker 1>No, Like, it still had its effect, but it didn't

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<v Speaker 1>have a neurological EFFECTX has neurological effect. It's actually acting

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<v Speaker 1>on the amygdila. It's huge. It was a huge, huge

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<v Speaker 1>breakthrough when they figured this out, and then now that

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<v Speaker 1>they've proved it It can also be used to treat

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<v Speaker 1>anxiety if you injected in your head and neck muscles.

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<v Speaker 1>And you can use botox to treat migrains. Yeah, and

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<v Speaker 1>insurance has started to cover it for migrains, but they're

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<v Speaker 1>hoping that they'll start to cover it for things like

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<v Speaker 1>depression or borderline personality disorder or anxiety as well.

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<v Speaker 2>Cover it insurance if it helps people, cover it for sure.

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<v Speaker 1>And my hat is off to my dear sweet wife.

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<v Speaker 1>You me who tipped me off to this one.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh nice, thanks yummy.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, thanks Jumy, since we both thanked Youmy chuck. Wouldn't

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<v Speaker 1>you say that short stuff is out? I would.

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