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Speaker 1: Media, enter the mind gym and pick up some brain weights.

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Speaker 1: It's time for Better Offlines coverage of the Consumer Electronics Show, and.

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Speaker 2: I am your host ed Zitron.

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Speaker 1: We're back here in the plaza and beautiful Las Vegs

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Speaker 1: Nevarda bringing you another episode. It is Thursday and we're

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Speaker 1: still covering cees. We are still here with an amazing

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Speaker 1: assortment of guests from the tech industry. We've got an

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Speaker 1: open bar, we've got tacos, a place to sit down

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Speaker 1: for members of the media, whether or not they join

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Speaker 1: us on the microphone. And of course we've got some

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Speaker 1: new contestants and some old contestants revisiting guests. My first is,

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Speaker 1: of course, Chloe Radcliffe, standup comedian and actress from He

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Speaker 1: is this thing on.

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Speaker 3: You're never going to get rid of me. I'm like

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Speaker 3: bed buds.

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Speaker 1: I love it with Cradley Booper and of course Matt

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Speaker 1: Bender Mashball joins.

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Speaker 3: Us say hey three times in a row.

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Speaker 2: What's up?

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Speaker 1: And then the wonderful to Vendra Hadowar, Evan Gadget HEO,

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Speaker 1: let's go. And you said you wanted to talk shit

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Speaker 1: on Dell, so let's.

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Speaker 3: Give the man.

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Speaker 2: Give us the history.

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Speaker 4: So last year, Dell did this the dumbest thing I've

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Speaker 4: seen a tech company do in a very long time.

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Speaker 4: They were like, Hey, we all these brands. Yeah, you

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Speaker 4: know and love XPS, that thing that's been selling for decades.

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Speaker 4: People love it. Let's kill all that. Let's call all

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Speaker 4: computers Dell, Dell, pro, Dell, Promax. Those names may sound familiar,

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Speaker 4: they're a little apply. Yeah, And when that was announced

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Speaker 4: last year, I was at a press conference and Michael

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Speaker 4: Dell was there announcing all of this, and my first

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Speaker 4: question to him is like, what do you have to

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Speaker 4: gain by copying Apple? Like, what are you doing here?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: He did not have a good response to that. Fast

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Speaker 4: forward a year, every other PC manufacturer shipment's growing, Dell

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Speaker 4: down because nobody knew what the hell Dell was producing

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Speaker 4: this year, especially the people who wanted an XPS. So

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Speaker 4: they turned they turned around, they brought back the XPS brand.

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Speaker 4: They're actually doubling down on it and all so fixing

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Speaker 4: all the stupid issues we've brought up in our reviews

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Speaker 4: over the last few years too.

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Speaker 2: So it's double vindication. What I guess back, what are

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Speaker 2: the things that they've messed up? What if they fix

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Speaker 2: have you seen the XPS lately? I have not.

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Speaker 4: So they did this thing. Sometimes designers go a little crazy.

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Speaker 4: They're like, what if what if you couldn't see a

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Speaker 4: track pad? What if it was just all wrisk pad?

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Speaker 4: So they did that. They made an invisible track pad

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Speaker 4: that works and it looks cool, but it's hard to

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Speaker 4: use because you can't tell where it begins.

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Speaker 3: It's hard to use because a huge part of using

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Speaker 3: a track pad is being able to see.

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Speaker 2: I feel it, at least feel I have a problem

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Speaker 2: with my MacBook Probe.

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Speaker 1: The track put pad is slightly bigger than usual. It

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Speaker 1: is nasty, clammy wrists get on it. But an invisible

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Speaker 1: one I would snap that thing.

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Speaker 4: But also, at least with a MacBook right, you have

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Speaker 4: an edge.

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Speaker 3: You can see what it is. You can see that.

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Speaker 4: You don't even need to see it. You need to

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Speaker 4: feel it, right because you're not looking at the track.

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Speaker 5: I could see I could see an invisible track pad

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Speaker 5: working if they made like the technology to just extend

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Speaker 5: it so that area is a track pad.

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Speaker 3: I mean you're saying, is that's not the case.

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Speaker 4: A lot of it is a track pad, but the

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Speaker 4: very edges aren't. Anyway, what they did with the new redesign.

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Speaker 4: They put just little little notches so you feel it.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 4: And these are just like basic usability things.

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Speaker 2: To think about. They could have.

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Speaker 4: They could have done that first, but anyway, And also

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Speaker 4: the function row on the Dell xps is for the

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Speaker 4: last couple of years was this like capacitive touch thing.

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Speaker 4: They weren't real keys. There were buttons that kind of

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Speaker 4: changed when you hit a button and they disappeared in

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Speaker 4: bright sunlight. You couldn't see them. So like your function keys,

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Speaker 4: the volume button, all that stuff just disappeared. And I

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Speaker 4: talked to that. I was like, did you guys not

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Speaker 4: go outside? Did you not bring this computer outside?

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Speaker 3: Don't see you're talking to computer eduering didn't go outside?

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Speaker 2: But like wait, but did they say whether they did?

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Speaker 4: They were like it was COVID and we were designing,

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Speaker 4: you know. It was like the excuses were it was

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Speaker 4: kind of a rough time to design. I think sometimes

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Speaker 4: some companies let their designers go crazy. Yeah, we're gonna

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Speaker 4: out Apple. Apple. The thing about Apple is that they

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Speaker 4: they at least tend to think about usability and practical functional.

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Speaker 1: The company best known for its usability. Yeah, like very

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Speaker 1: consumer facing. They don't like changing things up other than

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Speaker 1: liquid gloss, which fucking sucks.

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Speaker 4: You could argue about liquid glass. Yeah, but they're charging

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Speaker 4: the mouse on the bottom. Oh that's like Johnny I bullshit,

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Speaker 4: but Apple itself doesn't tend to do Yeah, so anyway,

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Speaker 4: that's they're just keys. Now, they're just keys. And they

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Speaker 4: these new the XPS fourteen and sixteen or a lighter

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Speaker 4: than ever. This XPS fourteen is like about three pounds,

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Speaker 4: which is pretty great. Yeah for a fourteens laptop. So yeah,

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Speaker 4: total vindication. They fixed a lot of the issues. The

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Speaker 4: branding is back. It is funny talking to people at

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Speaker 4: Dell because all the executives and the marketing people like, hey, yeah,

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Speaker 4: this rebranding's gonna go great, and all the underlings, like

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Speaker 4: all the people who've been working on these computers and

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Speaker 4: have dedicated decades of their lives with their like what

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Speaker 4: what is happening here? Like I built XPS machines, you know,

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Speaker 4: And they felt really bad about it. So on every level,

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Speaker 4: the branding, the rebranding was a failure. XPS is back,

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Speaker 4: and I'm happy about that. And we just got to

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Speaker 4: tell Dell for like that whole when I saw them again. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: we were right, We told you, we told you this.

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Speaker 1: Well, there's a misinformation going on around Dallas well because

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Speaker 1: everyone's saying, oh, Dell claim that they're backing off AI

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Speaker 1: branding and people don't like AI. Apparently, David Girard, you

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Speaker 1: chased this down, Journalius, Javid Girard, Jesus Christ. He apparently

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Speaker 1: that was never said. And Dell is full scale AI

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Speaker 1: like anyone who thinks that they're not. They have forecasted

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Speaker 1: twenty five billion dollars of AI server sales this year.

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Speaker 1: Do not believe Dell's lies. Do not let them lie

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Speaker 1: to you and claim this isn't the case. They are

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Speaker 1: fully AI piled and will be punished by the dark

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Speaker 1: gods when the AI bubble bursts.

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Speaker 4: I've had some interesting conversations with people at Dell who

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Speaker 4: were pissed off at Microsoft and pissed off about the

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Speaker 4: AIPC push because it's literally all marketing bullshit, as you've

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Speaker 4: covered extensively, that has not led to actually useful futures

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Speaker 4: for people. So, yeah, Dell is invest in AI. What

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Speaker 4: I have noticed is that they're not saying AIPC. They're

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Speaker 4: not out there shipping saying like hey, we got the

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Speaker 4: latest co pilot plus systems because nobody cared. Nobody cared

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Speaker 4: about copilotplus.

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Speaker 3: They try, saying they try.

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Speaker 4: Just here they did, and now it's just like, hey,

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Speaker 4: you know what's great a computer? A computer that works?

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Speaker 3: What if a computer? Yeah?

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Speaker 4: What if?

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Speaker 3: What if a computer was a thing that you could

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Speaker 3: see the things at the keys?

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Speaker 4: You could see it, you could feel the track pas.

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Speaker 3: Basically, I will say that from my now you know,

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Speaker 3: this is my first year at CESU, from my relative

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Speaker 3: limited exposure to the kind of products that get shown at.

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Speaker 2: The ce S.

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Speaker 3: Somebody being like, hey, do you want a laptop that

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Speaker 3: you have no idea where you're touching on it? Do

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Speaker 3: you want a laptop that has a bunch of buttons

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Speaker 3: but you're going to have to use it in pretty

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Speaker 3: limited facilities to make sure that you know exactly what

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Speaker 3: you are clicking. That's the new product is.

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Speaker 4: The whole world can be described by like, I think

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Speaker 4: you should leave sketches, right, yea car sketches. I want

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Speaker 4: a car where the steering wheel doesn't fly off. And

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Speaker 4: that's basically what we're saying.

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Speaker 1: No, no, it's it's literally there's two cys is two

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Speaker 1: I think you should leave sketches.

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Speaker 3: It's that.

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Speaker 2: And it's also a guy who just walks around going

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Speaker 2: what the hell is that?

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Speaker 3: What the hell is that? Her niece smart.

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Speaker 2: Glasses that goes that's a flower paw.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, who walks into his pantry and goes, oh,

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Speaker 1: what the fuck do I cook?

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Speaker 4: The I've got too much shit on me sketch. Yeah, yep,

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Speaker 4: I just can't serve. That's Victoria song.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: The just too many wearables, too many wearables. Although we

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Speaker 4: had a good chat with the guy from a Pebble

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Speaker 4: who's back. Everyone likes Pebble good wearables. Actually, I said,

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Speaker 4: I said smart rings were bullshit last year and I

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Speaker 4: still believe that. Sorry, Victoria, but the Pebble smart ring

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Speaker 4: kind of cool.

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Speaker 3: What do you think is bullshit about smart rings?

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Speaker 4: The form factor means they can never really do much.

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Speaker 4: The battery life is always gonna be.

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Speaker 3: Sorry form factor you mean being ring.

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Speaker 4: It's a ring where it can never have like a

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Speaker 4: big battery. It can never be that. So it's very

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Speaker 4: limited in terms of what you can do. And all

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Speaker 4: the rings we've seen, I know you've worn a couple

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Speaker 4: of like they're just they're fine, but you know what's better.

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Speaker 4: It's just a smart watch, is this not? As it

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Speaker 4: doesn't feel a.

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Speaker 2: Push on you on that. I find smart watches very annoying,

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Speaker 2: and I agree, like my weird, fucking like oddly dainty wrists.

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Speaker 2: I mean that, like the see muscle there, thank you clothing,

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Speaker 2: thank you Chloe, just destroying me.

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Speaker 1: Like my Apple watch for some reason, just doesn't get

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Speaker 1: a full connection no matter how tight it's interesting and

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Speaker 1: like this ring for the most part works, but even then,

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Speaker 1: like it's I still don't get a full connection sometimes

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Speaker 1: sometimes it doesn't really yeah, even then it doesn't recognize

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Speaker 1: a full workout.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes it's it kind.

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Speaker 4: Of wearables are personal, Like that's the thing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we're all weird, Like what what we like to

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Speaker 2: touch with textures we like?

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Speaker 4: I think I've learned. I just don't like ring stuff,

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Speaker 4: you know, so like that's just.

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Speaker 2: It's hard to make a generous product in that way.

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Speaker 5: The thing is, too, you have to be the type

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Speaker 5: of person who wears whatever that wearable is, like the

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Speaker 5: non tech version of it too, Like I don't wear watches.

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Speaker 5: I want to wear smart watch. I don't wear rings.

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Speaker 5: I want to wear a smart ring. I don't wear glasses,

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Speaker 5: So I want to wear smart glasses.

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Speaker 4: That's a big one too. Smart glasses also kind of bullshit.

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Speaker 4: But the Pebble thing is kind of cool because the

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Speaker 4: Pebble guy was always like, first off, their thing was

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Speaker 4: eat ink smart watches, like back in twenty fourteen. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: those are coming back. He's bringing back that's been so

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Speaker 4: Pebble used to have these smart watches that lasted for

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Speaker 4: weeks and just they were very basic. They could like

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Speaker 4: upload notifications.

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Speaker 2: He used to kindle. Yes, so it's like that. It's

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Speaker 2: like that, but watch.

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Speaker 4: Not really an LCD screen but more like papery.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's the Piper screen.

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Speaker 3: And I can read my book on my watch.

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean I don't think you.

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Speaker 4: Could read your notifications on your watch for sure. But

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Speaker 4: he's bringing back that because what happened was fitbit butt

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Speaker 4: Pebble Google butt fitbit, and he went to Google and

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Speaker 4: just like, hey, you're my software, my Pebble software. Nothing's happening.

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Speaker 4: Can you open source at and Google for once did

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Speaker 4: a good thing. I was like, yes, the open sources

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Speaker 4: so nice. Now now the pebblic guy can go back

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Speaker 4: and make hardware using that software. So the pebble watches

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Speaker 4: are back. But he has a ring that looks really cool.

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Speaker 1: But the thing is with the ring from what I pod,

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Speaker 1: you have to physically hold it down.

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Speaker 4: Well, so the ring all it does, it does one

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Speaker 4: thing you're supposed to do it really well, you hit

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Speaker 4: a button on the ring. It takes notes.

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Speaker 2: Yes, do you have to physically hold it down?

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Speaker 3: Then? I don't know if we also we looked this

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Speaker 3: up and I was saying that I because I as

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Speaker 3: a comedian, usually my phone background says document everything. I

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Speaker 3: record every single set that I do and stand up

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Speaker 3: in my voice memos like I use the notes and

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Speaker 3: the voice memos in my phone are the two things

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Speaker 3: that like.

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Speaker 4: Yes, unlock my perfect for you, Perfect for Me supposedly

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Speaker 4: will last two years.

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Speaker 3: Except also I love to like sometimes I'll just record

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Speaker 3: a meeting and not tell the other person. Now that's

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Speaker 3: legal in the state that I live, but it's a

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Speaker 3: way for me to be like, Okay, I remember, like

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Speaker 3: if I'm practicing pitch for a show that I'm trying

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Speaker 3: to sell or whatever, I'm like, I just want to

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Speaker 3: be able to be in the moment, but also remember

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Speaker 3: how I did this and how they react to and

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Speaker 3: what questionures they asked? Whatever, Anyway, this ring sounds like

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Speaker 3: a thing that I would use. Yeah, then I looked

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Speaker 3: up what it looks like and it really does look

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Speaker 3: like ye my ring that definitely does not have a

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Speaker 3: microphone in it.

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Speaker 2: So I did just look this up.

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Speaker 1: You just have to click it once to record it,

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Speaker 1: and it's seventy five bucks. I hate to say it,

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Speaker 1: I actually kind of want this because I'm not trying

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Speaker 1: to surreptitiously record people. But I absolutely like, usually got

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Speaker 1: an idea thirty seconds before I meant to fall asleep,

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Speaker 1: I remember thirteen things I would like a reminder for. Yes, now,

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Speaker 1: perhaps I wonn't be wearing a ring at that time,

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Speaker 1: but for seeably I'll walk around be like, shit, I

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Speaker 1: need to remember this, shit, I need to remember this.

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Speaker 1: Or even just if I could say an idea and

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Speaker 1: it says here it's an on device LM yep, and

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Speaker 1: that I find quite interesting because.

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Speaker 4: Not going to the cloud, not going to the cloud, not.

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Speaker 1: Melting giraffes as a means of powering GPUs.

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Speaker 3: On which device on a ring on your phone?

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Speaker 2: That's kind of what I'm trying to work out, and

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Speaker 2: we don't.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't. We just got a whole LLM in

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Speaker 4: a ring.

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Speaker 2: No, that's kind of what I can get there.

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Speaker 3: It's I'm asking such like podun kill bill, can you've

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Speaker 3: plait a whole robot on that ring?

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Speaker 2: I actually will push back. That's not a podunk question.

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Speaker 1: That's a perfectly fucking reasonable one, because especially when we're

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Speaker 1: being told we need eighty nine data centers, we must,

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Speaker 1: we must knock down entire neighborhoods and put up a

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Speaker 1: data center the size of I don't know New York

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Speaker 1: City for meta. I understand the question. I'm going to

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Speaker 1: assume that this thing needs you need to connect it

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Speaker 1: to your phone, and your phone it has I.

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Speaker 3: Don't fit a whole AI on your phone.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, but I'm guessing it's a very simplified, transcription

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Speaker 1: specific one.

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Speaker 2: But I do not know.

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Speaker 3: It might it might.

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Speaker 5: It might store the recordings on the ring in case

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Speaker 5: you don't have the connectivity of your phone in the moment.

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Speaker 1: Now it says completely on device, you don't require an

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Speaker 1: Internet connection.

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Speaker 5: Okay, perfectly, I'm about this ring right here, right now.

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Speaker 4: The show seventy five bucks March twenty twenty six, last

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Speaker 4: two years now that's the thing. It's not rechargeable. So

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Speaker 4: what once you once, once it's done, you send it

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Speaker 4: back to them?

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00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:15,280
Speaker 2: Why?

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00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:19,320
Speaker 4: Because he is very much like I think this is true.

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Speaker 4: We have too much shit to charge, Like I'm just

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Speaker 4: tired of it. So he's like, Okay, what if a

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Speaker 4: ring lasts two years and if you actually are still

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Speaker 4: using it by then send it back and maybe get

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Speaker 4: a replacement. Actually that is probably better than holding onto

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Speaker 4: a charger that you will know.

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Speaker 5: I actually what happens a year and a half in though,

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Speaker 5: if it's got less of a charge in that last thing.

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Speaker 1: It can record roughly twelve to fifteen hours of recording

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Speaker 1: and it lasts for two years.

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Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I don't know if you're a journalist.

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Speaker 3: Wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait it.

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Speaker 1: Runs out fifteen hours recording total. No, no, no, you

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Speaker 1: can that's what it says here on the website. I

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Speaker 1: mean I'm not to be able to offload.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, we have not gone to the specific leve it,

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Speaker 4: but it definitely he wants to.

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Speaker 3: Hold twelve to fifteen hours total and then you can

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Speaker 3: dump that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but you just we have the technology. Clear.

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Speaker 5: This is now I'm an article on not my outlet,

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00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:19,160
Speaker 5: but Android authority uh with. It's expected to last for

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Speaker 5: up to two years with normal usage, and normal usage

331
00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:26,360
Speaker 5: is described as ten to twenty times per day, recording

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Speaker 5: three to six second voice notes.

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Speaker 2: I wanted to love this. I wanted to so bad.

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Speaker 2: But if you're thinking a journalist and you do what what,

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00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:44,600
Speaker 2: so fifteen is equal like thirty thirty minute interviews, that's

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Speaker 2: you're never going to record.

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00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:46,760
Speaker 4: It's not for interviews.

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00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:48,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're not going to record a full interview.

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00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:50,480
Speaker 4: That was for you on the toilet. This is for

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00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:51,240
Speaker 4: you in the shower.

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Speaker 2: Do you have a lot of thoughts there?

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00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:56,320
Speaker 4: It's toilet thoughts, it's shower thoughts. The storage thing we

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00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:59,640
Speaker 4: have the ability to date like that that could be solved.

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Speaker 1: But I'm just kind of like, if this is if

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Speaker 1: this is meant to be for quick thoughts, fine, but

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Speaker 1: I'm just like, as someone, especially because it does the transcription,

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00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:08,920
Speaker 1: I'm just like, that would be really useful.

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Speaker 2: But I guess you can do that with the Apple

349
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Speaker 2: Watch down.

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00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:13,720
Speaker 5: But also three to six second voice notes. I mean,

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00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:16,080
Speaker 5: is that really saving you the time that you couldn't

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Speaker 5: just whip out your phone and type it yourself.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm kind of like, actually does that up?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I do actually think that being able to say

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Speaker 3: like a very quick thing captain's log. Yeah, yeah, I

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00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:30,480
Speaker 3: do think that that is cool. The use case that

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00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:34,800
Speaker 3: I would be using it for is if I I

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00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:38,400
Speaker 3: am always like writing down in a conversation, if somebody

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00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:40,760
Speaker 3: says a very smart thing or like analyzing something in

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00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:42,680
Speaker 3: a really cool way, I'm always like, hold on, I

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00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:44,800
Speaker 3: want to write that down. And so if I could

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00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:49,760
Speaker 3: just be like, hey, can you explain, like explain to

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00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:53,080
Speaker 3: me why this movie didn't wasn't wasn't effective in the

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00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:54,920
Speaker 3: way that we both felt that it wasn't effective. But

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00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:57,800
Speaker 3: I am not articulate enough to be able to put

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Speaker 3: this into words. But you, my boyfriend, who is a

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00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:04,600
Speaker 3: smart director, can say it into my ring. And but

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00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:07,320
Speaker 3: that explanation is going to take sixty seconds. Like I,

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Speaker 3: I do think that there's a use case and that

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00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:12,520
Speaker 3: it's well sixty seconds though, is your sixty second note?

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00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:16,600
Speaker 3: Is your entire use the last years?

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00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:16,960
Speaker 2: Exactly?

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00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:19,040
Speaker 3: That's what I'm saying. I would be doing that in

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Speaker 3: my mind too.

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00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:21,920
Speaker 5: If you give me a time frame like this, if

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00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:23,600
Speaker 5: you want this the last two years, you need to

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00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:25,640
Speaker 5: use it no more than sixty ten times you're going

378
00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:28,760
Speaker 5: to have your phone, But every time I use it,

379
00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:30,440
Speaker 5: I'd be like, oh, this was just number six, Do

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00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:31,960
Speaker 5: I really want to go and push it for the

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00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:32,440
Speaker 5: next note?

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00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:34,240
Speaker 3: And that is how you know that you did not

383
00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:36,160
Speaker 3: grow up with money.

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00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:37,080
Speaker 2: I still.

385
00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:40,440
Speaker 3: That's a very clear class.

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00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:44,600
Speaker 1: I will give them credit and that they specifically say

387
00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:47,920
Speaker 1: this is not designed to record your whole life or meetings.

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00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:50,160
Speaker 1: It is very much a reminder thing. I can kind

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00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:53,280
Speaker 1: of see it. And they're all numerous times where I

390
00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:55,600
Speaker 1: will just be sitting there and be like, oh, I

391
00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:59,080
Speaker 1: have an idea, like what if Ben wois Blanc interrogated

392
00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:02,200
Speaker 1: Cuba for example? But like the use ones too, but

393
00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:06,199
Speaker 1: it's I also like typing, but again different if I

394
00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:08,959
Speaker 1: can see different strokes of different folks, that's fine. And

395
00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:11,240
Speaker 1: also Chloe does literally do this. She's like, can you

396
00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:11,800
Speaker 1: say that again?

397
00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:14,320
Speaker 2: So I can run this might be a Chloe Radcliffe

398
00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:15,639
Speaker 2: approved device potentially.

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00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:17,840
Speaker 4: How the way I do reviews is often I'm like

400
00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:20,960
Speaker 4: out just like dictating thoughts into my phone. So that's

401
00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:23,880
Speaker 4: like often the thing. The other thing I'll point out

402
00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:26,720
Speaker 4: is that you know we the lifespan is the thing,

403
00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:30,240
Speaker 4: like will people want basically a disposable device. But what

404
00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:32,639
Speaker 4: if I think you send it back to them, it

405
00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:36,080
Speaker 4: gets recycled, the battery gets recycled, good for them. Electronics

406
00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:39,320
Speaker 4: recycling not that great, but matter than just need.

407
00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:40,200
Speaker 3: To put it in the mail.

408
00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:43,080
Speaker 1: Like it's just see the moment I'm told I have

409
00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:45,359
Speaker 1: to mail or something, I just want to I want

410
00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:47,440
Speaker 1: to jump off a fucking bridge.

411
00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:48,760
Speaker 2: Like I was just like, oh, you want me to

412
00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:51,720
Speaker 2: go to the post office. Let me just let me,

413
00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:53,600
Speaker 2: let me Dwyer mode.

414
00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:57,400
Speaker 4: You get a self self you know, label or whatever,

415
00:17:57,400 --> 00:17:57,960
Speaker 4: you drop it.

416
00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:03,600
Speaker 3: No, no, no, no, you gotta print. You gotta print.

417
00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:07,119
Speaker 4: You know they have there's that startup that does the

418
00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:09,000
Speaker 4: thing for returns right now where you get a barcode

419
00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:09,880
Speaker 4: and you just bring it to like.

420
00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:14,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that ship. That's cool. Wait with like Amazon

421
00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:16,679
Speaker 2: returns and as.

422
00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:19,280
Speaker 5: Long as you go to the ups store with coals

423
00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:21,639
Speaker 5: as well, I think, okay, yeah that's Amazon.

424
00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:23,960
Speaker 4: There's also another company that just doesn't.

425
00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:26,080
Speaker 3: Amberjack.

426
00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:28,280
Speaker 1: Amberjack is a shoe company I used, and they have

427
00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:29,520
Speaker 1: it where it's just you scan. It was like you

428
00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:31,600
Speaker 1: can take it to coals or something, which is cool.

429
00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:33,560
Speaker 1: Like it's weird, Like there are little things like that

430
00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:34,760
Speaker 1: which are really useful.

431
00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:39,240
Speaker 2: Like I said, this is a dyspractic physical coordinational disability.

432
00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:42,560
Speaker 1: Putting together, like opening a package isn't fun. Packing a

433
00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:45,200
Speaker 1: package sucks. Is like the pain box.

434
00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:45,439
Speaker 2: For me.

435
00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:47,879
Speaker 1: It's like if you're like, return this with a label,

436
00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:51,639
Speaker 1: I'm like, you want me to touch the thing with

437
00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:52,920
Speaker 1: the knife on it and the type.

438
00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:56,640
Speaker 4: It's also like that's where millennial breakdown happens. It's like, oh,

439
00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:59,800
Speaker 4: this is a task, not so much that takes time.

440
00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:02,480
Speaker 2: Let me explain thispraxia though. Yeah, it's not like it's

441
00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:03,040
Speaker 2: like a task.

442
00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:05,760
Speaker 1: It's picking up a box and putting tape in a

443
00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:08,120
Speaker 1: straight line is genuinely difficult.

444
00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:08,720
Speaker 2: Like my brain.

445
00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:11,480
Speaker 1: It's in like the more complex it is, like it

446
00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:13,880
Speaker 1: actually like is upsetting. Like it's meant like I'm sure

447
00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:16,560
Speaker 1: the few dispractics who listen like yeah, fuck you dude,

448
00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:20,040
Speaker 1: boxes suck, but it is really like that, and it's

449
00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:22,280
Speaker 1: hard to describe because it sounds like I'm just being

450
00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:24,840
Speaker 1: a baby. I wish I was. I wish this was

451
00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:27,320
Speaker 1: just me being like ooh, coot put a book together. No,

452
00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:30,879
Speaker 1: it's really fucking difficult. It's really it's so difficult for me.

453
00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:32,560
Speaker 1: So it's like, oh, I gave you a label.

454
00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:34,159
Speaker 2: You gave me a death sentence.

455
00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:37,719
Speaker 4: To the point of what you're saying there, we have

456
00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:38,320
Speaker 4: the technology.

457
00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:39,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, two weeks is cool.

458
00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:40,720
Speaker 4: You have a Cura code. You bring it to the story.

459
00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:42,840
Speaker 4: They're like, I'll deal with this problem for you, which

460
00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:44,280
Speaker 4: is can you walk away happy? Millennial?

461
00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:44,640
Speaker 2: Yes?

462
00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:47,160
Speaker 3: Yes, I was okay, I want to In defensive millennials,

463
00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:47,840
Speaker 3: are you a millennial?

464
00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:48,320
Speaker 5: Yeah?

465
00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:52,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, in defensive millennials. I think the reason I

466
00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:54,359
Speaker 3: don't want to do a task, for sure, you're not wrong,

467
00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:55,280
Speaker 3: I'm not Yeah.

468
00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:57,959
Speaker 4: The things that the simple things that pile up that

469
00:19:58,000 --> 00:19:59,000
Speaker 4: take five minutes to do.

470
00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:02,080
Speaker 3: Right, Yes, totally. But I think the reason that we

471
00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:04,359
Speaker 3: this is sort of off topic and I'm finding it

472
00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:06,440
Speaker 3: in the moment, so come with me on this, right.

473
00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:09,840
Speaker 3: But I think the reason that we are so uh,

474
00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:14,200
Speaker 3: that tasks are feel like so alienating and so off

475
00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:20,240
Speaker 3: putting is because we we are Oh boy, she's taken

476
00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:22,240
Speaker 3: a swing here, let's go to I think we are

477
00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:27,399
Speaker 3: because of our generation's interaction with the Internet's like rapid

478
00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:30,440
Speaker 3: expansion and social media's rapid expansion. We're sort of the

479
00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:36,120
Speaker 3: first generation that was expected to do suddenly like twice

480
00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:41,320
Speaker 3: as much in a career, in raising a family, in whatever.

481
00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:44,080
Speaker 3: That like, we are the generation, the first generation where

482
00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:47,280
Speaker 3: it's like you're expected to be your own whole small business.

483
00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:51,440
Speaker 3: And I think the prior generations excuse me, had more

484
00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:55,280
Speaker 3: she's taken us swing had more free time, yes, and

485
00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:58,439
Speaker 3: like that life was slower and so that like you

486
00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:01,879
Speaker 3: could say and forty five minutes once a week, I

487
00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:04,879
Speaker 3: do my little pasts, and like even if you can

488
00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:06,520
Speaker 3: be like I don't like doing them, but it's like

489
00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:09,000
Speaker 3: you have that forty five minutes and there's not this

490
00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:13,239
Speaker 3: like constant hammering in the back of your head. That is,

491
00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:19,320
Speaker 3: you could be doing these higher scale things for your

492
00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:21,879
Speaker 3: job or for your life that are made possible because

493
00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:23,359
Speaker 3: of the constant access to the internet.

494
00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:25,560
Speaker 1: Ye, and your job is also not in your pocket

495
00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:29,600
Speaker 1: all the time, That's exactly. And it's like also boomers

496
00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:32,880
Speaker 1: and well Gen x is of course hearing this will say, well.

497
00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:35,560
Speaker 2: When I grew up, my parents just left me at

498
00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:36,680
Speaker 2: home and we.

499
00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:40,280
Speaker 1: Have just entertained ourselves and we just also cynical, and

500
00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:42,920
Speaker 1: of course we could buy houses and college actually guaranteed

501
00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:45,840
Speaker 1: you a job, and college was cheaper and housing was cheaper.

502
00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:48,040
Speaker 1: I guess not in the nineties, but even then it

503
00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:49,280
Speaker 1: was easier to get a house.

504
00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:51,840
Speaker 4: And I mean, you're starting a millennia, you're starting a generational.

505
00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:52,639
Speaker 3: I don't fuck it.

506
00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:53,600
Speaker 2: Y boomers.

507
00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:55,640
Speaker 4: Booms got us here, by the way.

508
00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:57,679
Speaker 3: Yeah, GenX, we need you, we need you, we need

509
00:21:57,920 --> 00:21:58,840
Speaker 3: but they.

510
00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:00,720
Speaker 4: Got us here because they're in action.

511
00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:04,200
Speaker 2: Yes, gen x Is are the problem. There, we are.

512
00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:09,440
Speaker 1: I think both of them had that hand. I think

513
00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:11,600
Speaker 1: boomers in the sheety decisions, but gen x Is are

514
00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:13,679
Speaker 1: the ones with their inaction when they chose, and they

515
00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:14,600
Speaker 1: were gen X's who did.

516
00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:18,439
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, if even if you look at like the

517
00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:22,080
Speaker 5: like how like the generations fall politically now, Like you know,

518
00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:24,480
Speaker 5: the cliche is like all you boomers were the worst

519
00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:26,240
Speaker 5: or whatever, But if you look, there's a lot of

520
00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:28,960
Speaker 5: boomers who are very like anti Trump, and I don't

521
00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:31,520
Speaker 5: see the same with gen X. In fact, gen X

522
00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:33,720
Speaker 5: is the one that went the other way during the pandemic,

523
00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:36,119
Speaker 5: like well everyone else was like, oh, I can't believe

524
00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:39,320
Speaker 5: how Trump is doing what Trump is doing during the pandemic,

525
00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:42,879
Speaker 5: gen X was going like I can't believe I have

526
00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:43,399
Speaker 5: to steal it.

527
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:45,640
Speaker 3: My shitty kid who I can't send off the school.

528
00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:48,400
Speaker 3: I'm right wing now, I mean that's literally.

529
00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:50,960
Speaker 1: And also boomers will do the whole thing. We're just

530
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:53,600
Speaker 1: gonna get people. I'm gonna get some emails.

531
00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:55,720
Speaker 2: There are a lot of boomers who are like, back

532
00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:57,800
Speaker 2: in my day, I could just walk into a star

533
00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:00,680
Speaker 2: and say, good sir, I'd like a job nights like

534
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:01,880
Speaker 2: Kardia Jeb why.

535
00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:05,040
Speaker 1: But the same time, and there was a lots of

536
00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:06,520
Speaker 1: like old people who were like, just go and get

537
00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:06,800
Speaker 1: a job.

538
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:07,399
Speaker 2: It's that easy.

539
00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:09,760
Speaker 1: The gen x is if you make a post of

540
00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:11,520
Speaker 1: Blue sky En I've done this several times, just be

541
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:13,560
Speaker 1: like make fun of gen x as being like, yeah,

542
00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:15,719
Speaker 1: I get home, my parents weren't there, so I'd make

543
00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:19,200
Speaker 1: myself dinner and I'd entertain myself all day every day,

544
00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:22,000
Speaker 1: and I was so independent. There will be gen x's

545
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,480
Speaker 1: who respond and be like, yeah, that's actually true, and

546
00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:27,200
Speaker 1: you should like they get very personal about em I

547
00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:28,960
Speaker 1: don't know, you lived through some of the best music

548
00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:29,960
Speaker 1: as well, like fucking stop.

549
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:33,320
Speaker 5: I mean we're right, yes, I mean all the super rich,

550
00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:36,640
Speaker 5: fucking tech assholes are gen xers, Like.

551
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:39,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, to your idea, what you what you were saying

552
00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:43,399
Speaker 4: about back to me, back to the millennial. Correct. I

553
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:46,359
Speaker 4: think you're absolutely right, But also there's other aspects of it,

554
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:48,639
Speaker 4: and people talk about it. It's the way millennials went

555
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,320
Speaker 4: to school, because we went to school in this like

556
00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:56,360
Speaker 4: real in America in this really optimized, like the sort

557
00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:59,200
Speaker 4: of goals that you had to chase were very specific,

558
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:03,080
Speaker 4: whole gifted and talented crowd like we were seeing basically.

559
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:05,680
Speaker 3: Which I was one, yes, the same, but that was not.

560
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:07,960
Speaker 2: It really was not.

561
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:13,480
Speaker 3: No, it was not you see.

562
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:16,880
Speaker 4: Online like the the gift in tal adults. We're like, oh,

563
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:19,600
Speaker 4: that was kind of wrong. That maybe kind of broke

564
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:20,880
Speaker 4: us in terms of how we.

565
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:25,040
Speaker 3: Do you mean through the world the high expectations based

566
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:27,840
Speaker 3: on us and the expectation of perfectionism or like how

567
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:29,840
Speaker 3: that metastasizes exactly.

568
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:31,520
Speaker 4: All that, Like we were built for school and for

569
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:33,840
Speaker 4: taking tests and then sent to the real world.

570
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:37,400
Speaker 3: It's like, oh, and do you think other generations? Oh?

571
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:40,360
Speaker 5: Absolutely if you think about it, like why why did

572
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:44,800
Speaker 5: all the first internet culture come from millennials? And that's

573
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:52,560
Speaker 5: because like gen X was at the age.

574
00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:50,880
Speaker 4: That's there's.

575
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:55,280
Speaker 5: I don't know because we're no, but I'm talking about

576
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:57,399
Speaker 5: like meme culture, and all lives.

577
00:24:57,640 --> 00:24:59,920
Speaker 1: Sorry, that's I think I know what you're saying, which

578
00:24:59,920 --> 00:25:03,080
Speaker 1: is our lives were digital in a way.

579
00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:03,679
Speaker 2: There's not.

580
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:07,440
Speaker 4: Yes here. Here's what's interesting is that we're getting too

581
00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:10,359
Speaker 4: millennial focus because we're all millennials, I guess. But also,

582
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:14,159
Speaker 4: we knew what the world was very young. Okay, thank you,

583
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:15,120
Speaker 4: good to know.

584
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:16,680
Speaker 3: Hollywood Castrian.

585
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:21,000
Speaker 4: We knew what the world was before the Internet. We

586
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:24,080
Speaker 4: saw what the world became with the Internet, and we're

587
00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:27,639
Speaker 4: expected to be as experts at it post internet, so

588
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:31,440
Speaker 4: we saw the full breadth of it. Yeah, so that's

589
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:35,040
Speaker 4: why like gen zers and young kids do not know

590
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:37,440
Speaker 4: the world before and it's kind of tough to describe

591
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:37,919
Speaker 4: what that was.

592
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:40,639
Speaker 2: We also were children during nine to eleven and were

593
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:42,720
Speaker 2: in like children.

594
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:44,119
Speaker 4: Teenagers, but yes, the world fell apart.

595
00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:46,880
Speaker 2: Ages are still children two thousand and eight as well.

596
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:49,520
Speaker 1: Like I think that it's understated, like because two thousand

597
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:51,119
Speaker 1: and eight, I moved to America that year and it

598
00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:55,080
Speaker 1: was very much like Welcome to America. No, it happened

599
00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:59,120
Speaker 1: as I moved, not because I don't know. I moved

600
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:00,879
Speaker 1: and it was just like, oh, hey, you know the

601
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:02,520
Speaker 1: whole thing you were told about, you got to college.

602
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:05,639
Speaker 1: Everything will be fine, fuck you, just exactly. And I

603
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:10,199
Speaker 1: don't think other older generations realize how stark that was,

604
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:14,480
Speaker 1: how hot, Like there Jen x UMA's probably remember before

605
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:18,159
Speaker 1: the Department of Homeland Security existed, like and I just

606
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 1: think the expectations of hyper digitization and the constant expectation

607
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:27,119
Speaker 1: and notifications stuff like that. I think it's really easy

608
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,440
Speaker 1: to color Millennia's like, oh, you're so oh you want

609
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:32,160
Speaker 1: your little treats and all this. No, we're being harassed

610
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,120
Speaker 1: by everyone is now harassed by everything all the time.

611
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:37,520
Speaker 2: We're aware of it every yes, and we know and

612
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:38,560
Speaker 2: we remember.

613
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 3: It could have been different. Yeah, I don't remember when.

614
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 1: It's frustrating as well, because by the way, Michael Dell

615
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:46,800
Speaker 1: gen X Yeah, just and we're and just.

616
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:48,880
Speaker 3: To be clear, this is mister Dell of.

617
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:51,200
Speaker 4: The company, one of the richest men in the world,

618
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:52,520
Speaker 4: by the way, like he's up there. He's also the

619
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:53,520
Speaker 4: guy behind trump Bucks.

620
00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:56,840
Speaker 3: How have I never heard of Michael Dell? Oh? Is

621
00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:58,520
Speaker 3: he the guy who founded del Yes.

622
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:01,199
Speaker 1: And yeah, he's It's weird because they went through this thing.

623
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:04,280
Speaker 1: Is will rotate shortly, but it's this weird thing where

624
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:07,239
Speaker 1: Dell went through this real shit house era when they

625
00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:09,679
Speaker 1: were just complete dogshit their computers sucked, and then they

626
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,800
Speaker 1: went took themselves off of the public markets private again,

627
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:15,760
Speaker 1: fixed things, everyone loved them again, and then they went

628
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:18,480
Speaker 1: public again and then they appeared to be like thinking

629
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:21,159
Speaker 1: about being ship, but they're back to being okay, and

630
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:22,639
Speaker 1: they bet their whole future on AI.

631
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 5: It's just one of my earliest computers were Dell, and

632
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:27,800
Speaker 5: I remember they were really big and then they sort

633
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 5: of everyone else beat them in everything, and then no

634
00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:33,679
Speaker 5: one wanted it and they had that really to me,

635
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:37,320
Speaker 5: they had that time period where they were the computer

636
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 5: that at least I did, I automatically associated with, like

637
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:43,679
Speaker 5: the older crowd, older people because especially as like the

638
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 5: gaming PC became big and then building your own PC

639
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 5: became big, Dell was still out there, I feel like,

640
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:53,120
Speaker 5: doing like old school type marketing too specific audiences during

641
00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:55,480
Speaker 5: a time period where like everyone was moving beyond that.

642
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:58,560
Speaker 1: And then they bought Alienware, which was this insane company

643
00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:01,359
Speaker 1: where they'd be these had a day my dad.

644
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:03,719
Speaker 2: My dad bought me an alien where once, and I

645
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 2: fucking loved it.

646
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:07,399
Speaker 1: It was this insane like I don't know how like

647
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:10,400
Speaker 1: three foot tall giant thing with like a swinging door

648
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:12,000
Speaker 1: and a big alien head in there for like a

649
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 1: teenage boy with no friends.

650
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:17,200
Speaker 3: It was it was this was mostly what does the alien.

651
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:20,280
Speaker 2: It's literally just a gaming PC, but it looked like

652
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:21,879
Speaker 2: a tube. It was more tubes.

653
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:27,119
Speaker 3: His wrists are so muscular, God damn it.

654
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 2: They just get body shaving.

655
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:33,480
Speaker 1: No, it's it's interesting though because hearing them, it just

656
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:37,919
Speaker 1: and as we'll transition into the next episode obviously, but

657
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:40,600
Speaker 1: it's like it feels like all these companies are having

658
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 1: a midlife crisis, and I think you know what.

659
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:46,520
Speaker 3: I mean, like maybe they are.

660
00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 4: They are, well, that was the time the millennial midl

661
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 4: like crisis.

662
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:53,640
Speaker 6: It's like, give us room, very young, okay, but yes,

663
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 6: and coming up now and add just for gen X's

664
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:00,960
Speaker 6: it's going to be for something called dot beers.

665
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 1: It's going to allow you to have a social network

666
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:07,000
Speaker 1: where you crow about how you were such an independent

667
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 1: child and how you remember when MTV was good.

668
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 3: That is actively losing subscriber.

669
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:15,240
Speaker 1: No, Genexas will email me now and be like, actually,

670
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 1: you know what, I watched Liquid Television and I was cool.

671
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 2: We're back in the room.

672
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:35,320
Speaker 1: We're back with a wonderful cast of course at Tristan

673
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 1: stand up comedian Chloe Radcliffe, Matt Binder of Mashable, and

674
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:42,360
Speaker 1: Devendra Harda even Gadget and you know what I do

675
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:44,720
Speaker 1: Actually kind of like this gen X and midlife crisis

676
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:47,200
Speaker 1: happening with AI. It kind of makes sense because it's like,

677
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,520
Speaker 1: you look at all these companies and they're all like, fuck,

678
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 1: how do we keep growing? The rock economy I've written

679
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:54,960
Speaker 1: and said about. But it's also a degree of like, wait,

680
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 1: what do people want anymore? Because we got so rich

681
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:00,360
Speaker 1: because gen X is able to keep a late wealth

682
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:01,720
Speaker 1: in the way that millennials couldn't.

683
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 2: Boomus.

684
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 4: It's it's all fomo. It's all fomo about what's next.

685
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 1: Fomo with disconnection from anyone like that. Yeah, I'm sorry.

686
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:12,360
Speaker 1: Oh it was a rough time during COVID. We didn't

687
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:14,120
Speaker 1: go outside. Fuck off.

688
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:17,600
Speaker 2: You could still step outside, just once, just be like

689
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 2: a scar.

690
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:20,440
Speaker 3: You know, it's so funny. I spent all of COVID

691
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:23,800
Speaker 3: outside because that's where you didn't get the germ.

692
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:24,160
Speaker 4: For a while.

693
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 3: It was better to be talking about it.

694
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:28,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's where you're just taking a laptop outside or

695
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:30,360
Speaker 2: do you not have an overhead lamp.

696
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 3: It was that was very stupid.

697
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 4: But to what is happening to all these companies because

698
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:37,960
Speaker 4: I've I've been covering them since twenty ten, I've been

699
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:43,160
Speaker 4: following the tech industry forever. They're all desperate. They're all

700
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:45,480
Speaker 4: desperate of missing out on the next big thing. Because

701
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 4: Microsoft missed out on mobile, they tried desperately to kind

702
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:51,200
Speaker 4: of get that back, like Windows Mobile, all these things

703
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 4: making Windows eight, But no, that was Apple, that was smartphone, arraw,

704
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 4: that was tablets. They never quite got into that. But

705
00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 4: they also didn't realize people like people like computers. Maybe

706
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 4: you should double down on that, which is what when

707
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 4: Theo's eleven was Whendows twelfth kind of became the thing.

708
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 4: But that was the mobile eerror. Then there was like

709
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:11,600
Speaker 4: tablets and stuff, it's wearables. For a while people were

710
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:13,120
Speaker 4: hot like, oh, this is gonna be the next big thing.

711
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 4: It's a niche. It's a very small niche.

712
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 2: You wear them. Then that not everyone wears the same thing.

713
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:19,480
Speaker 4: To map and this point, what's happened is that the

714
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:22,240
Speaker 4: world revolves around our phones because these are the most

715
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:24,720
Speaker 4: personal computers we have. It's my best friends, it's your

716
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 4: best friend. It holds all your deepest secrets and inner thoughts.

717
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:29,959
Speaker 4: It connects you to the world. So how do you

718
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 4: go past phone? The next stage of computing? To them

719
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:36,160
Speaker 4: is okay, a thing that processes data at obscene levels

720
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:38,720
Speaker 4: that we don't fully understand. But it seems like black magic,

721
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 4: and that's what AI.

722
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 1: But it's so funny though, because they're like, well, what

723
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:45,720
Speaker 1: do we replace a device that's all about personal stuff

724
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:48,680
Speaker 1: and our communication with others and our ability to condense

725
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 1: our thoughts and access media. We like, well, what if

726
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:55,040
Speaker 1: we took away all personal choice and data entry of

727
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:55,800
Speaker 1: any kind?

728
00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:56,920
Speaker 2: Would they like that?

729
00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:58,560
Speaker 1: But I actually what you were saying that, I just

730
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:02,040
Speaker 1: had a thought. These companies missed out on MOI mobile.

731
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 1: Microsoft didn't miss out a mobile, They made a ship

732
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:09,000
Speaker 1: mobile phone by acquiring Nokia. And Windows Phone sucked. And

733
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 1: it's like, why do people like the max so much?

734
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 1: Because it because it was good, because the UI was good?

735
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 1: Why a people like the iPhone because the UI was good?

736
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 2: It took so long for Android to even be half fast.

737
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 2: It was the T mobile. G one was the first,

738
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:24,640
Speaker 2: and it was so far behind, and they were so

739
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:28,000
Speaker 2: far behind for long, and Windows Phone was an insane

740
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:30,920
Speaker 2: create it was just this like tiles. It was Windows

741
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:32,240
Speaker 2: eight but in a phone, and.

742
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:35,200
Speaker 4: I will say it was cool. It was cool because

743
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:37,600
Speaker 4: it was different, but they again missed out on some

744
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:39,600
Speaker 4: practical functionality like Windows phone.

745
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:44,160
Speaker 2: The bjorc is cool and different. But I would not blame,

746
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:46,000
Speaker 2: but I would not.

747
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 1: I would not be like playing be York at an

748
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 1: NFL game like would in a commercial. I'm saying that,

749
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 1: like there are journalists and specifics and it's like something.

750
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 3: But if if we're connecting with broad like middle, yeah,

751
00:32:59,040 --> 00:32:59,520
Speaker 3: I don't think so.

752
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:02,200
Speaker 4: Here sing surface now, which is at the NFL games.

753
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:03,640
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, no, the surface.

754
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:06,360
Speaker 1: It's so funny having surface things that, especially with Aaron

755
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:07,480
Speaker 1: Rodgers just smashing them.

756
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:10,880
Speaker 2: But it's like they don't they like, well, what do

757
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:13,360
Speaker 2: we do? We'll do off spin. It's like make it good,

758
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:13,880
Speaker 2: make it good.

759
00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:17,000
Speaker 4: I can understand. We're gonna go into history here for

760
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 4: the kids. But Microsoft was making mobile shit for a

761
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:23,760
Speaker 4: very long time, right, the the ipack as well, right,

762
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 4: the ipack all that stuff. But it was BlackBerry era, right, Okay,

763
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 4: rewind to like late nineties. It was like Personal Assistance,

764
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:34,600
Speaker 4: right PDAs. Yeah, the palm pilots all those things. Evolution

765
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:37,960
Speaker 4: of that was BlackBerry. Microsoft was doing stuff within pocket PC

766
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:39,840
Speaker 4: and like they made a couple of ones, but they

767
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:40,440
Speaker 4: never really talk.

768
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 2: And they were like little laptops, so they were they

769
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 2: were like.

770
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:44,360
Speaker 4: Little keys or like little BlackBerry.

771
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:46,280
Speaker 2: Clones could but used like a little pen you could use.

772
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:47,960
Speaker 4: Some of them had like a stylist two. But the

773
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:51,640
Speaker 4: thing is BlackBerry was hot because data was bad, and

774
00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:54,960
Speaker 4: BlackBerry created the technology to have quick digital messaging to

775
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 4: all your friends. Go watch the movie BlackBerry, which is

776
00:33:57,360 --> 00:33:59,120
Speaker 4: not fully historically accurate, but gets the.

777
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:00,880
Speaker 2: Tech I founded the show.

778
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:06,240
Speaker 4: But the movie BlackBerry Wonderful Amazing has one of the

779
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 4: guys from him. It's always sunny in there too, and

780
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:10,640
Speaker 4: he's just like wonderfully offensive and like really gives his

781
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:15,720
Speaker 4: nice check out that movie. But BlackBerry innovative innovators delaydelemma

782
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:18,120
Speaker 4: came for them because they didn't believe you could have

783
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:20,440
Speaker 4: a phone that was all screen and that was iPhone.

784
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:22,760
Speaker 2: That's difficult, genuinely.

785
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 3: Do you mean like they had considered they were like

786
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:25,560
Speaker 3: should we make phone all screen?

787
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:27,800
Speaker 4: Yeah? Because BlackBerry, and they were like, no.

788
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:30,759
Speaker 3: No, we not make keyboard.

789
00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:35,879
Speaker 2: Who was Dennis for me in Philadelphia? Plays my friend

790
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:36,640
Speaker 2: Jim Person.

791
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:39,600
Speaker 4: Want to blow up.

792
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 5: I remember when I was in high school, the big

793
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:44,759
Speaker 5: phone at the time where those like the screen that

794
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 5: flips sidekick I think it was.

795
00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 4: Called phones were so cool. Before the iPhone, phones had

796
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:51,759
Speaker 4: all this like cool stuff I had. I had a

797
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:56,600
Speaker 4: Helio Ocean which which flipped up vertically and also flipped

798
00:34:56,719 --> 00:35:00,480
Speaker 4: sideways like sidekick. Amazing stuff. And then the iPhone came

799
00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 4: out and it was like, okay, all screen but also apps.

800
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 4: Your phone is now a computer. It's not just like

801
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:09,719
Speaker 4: a limited thing with garbage version of the Internet. It's

802
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:13,480
Speaker 4: the full Internet. And then cellular speed's got better, so

803
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:16,000
Speaker 4: like Internet in your pocket, full computer in your pocket.

804
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:18,880
Speaker 4: You cannot deny that that's the best thing. So Microsoft

805
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:20,640
Speaker 4: just was never able. They didn't catch up to that

806
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:23,319
Speaker 4: quick enough. We talked about Android being shitited early on.

807
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:25,960
Speaker 4: It was, but within a couple of years they kind

808
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:28,000
Speaker 4: of did the Windows thing where Google just like had

809
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:29,960
Speaker 4: the software and had other people come and make the hardware,

810
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:32,960
Speaker 4: and Android took over the world, like Android had dominated

811
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:37,960
Speaker 4: cell phone smartphones pretty quickly, pitty quickly on. But it's

812
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:40,680
Speaker 4: hard to deny. Everyone is chasing, like what is the

813
00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:43,160
Speaker 4: next thing. They think AI is the next thing, And

814
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 4: I'm glad that there are people out there like we're

815
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:48,040
Speaker 4: looking at this and like this is bullshit, this is

816
00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:48,720
Speaker 4: not good.

817
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:50,399
Speaker 3: But yeah, are they sure?

818
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 5: Like are they really convinced that what's amazing is that's

819
00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:58,480
Speaker 5: not right? Because so Mashable published. I didn't do the interview,

820
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:02,359
Speaker 5: but we spoke to the Novo CEO and we asked

821
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 5: him about people who are anti AI and AI skeptics,

822
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:08,319
Speaker 5: and his answer to that was basically, you can't avoid it.

823
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:10,880
Speaker 5: Just you won't be able to avoid it. And it's like,

824
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:13,839
Speaker 5: that's not the that's that. But it's also not like

825
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:15,920
Speaker 5: a ring door won't be able to avoid.

826
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:18,080
Speaker 3: Yes, that's the ring.

827
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:20,239
Speaker 2: It's the whole thing of people inevitable.

828
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:23,440
Speaker 3: Right do you believe in this product? Well, you can't

829
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:26,840
Speaker 3: avoid what's coming. I mean, you know, we sell it, Yeah,

830
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:31,160
Speaker 3: likedn't sell it, But it's I think I I, having

831
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:34,879
Speaker 3: not read the interview, I could imagine being like sort

832
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:37,359
Speaker 3: of having the attitude of like, I don't who gives

833
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:39,879
Speaker 3: a ship if you if you don't believe in this,

834
00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:46,000
Speaker 3: it's happened. We've invested billity and deal with it, and

835
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 3: who why is it on me to convince you you

836
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:52,120
Speaker 3: you can sit there and bang your drum as long

837
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:54,200
Speaker 3: as and I don't mean this to I don't mean

838
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:57,320
Speaker 3: to be on AI side, but like I can't imagine

839
00:36:57,360 --> 00:37:01,280
Speaker 3: sort of it, who gives it. I appreciate the honesty

840
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:02,200
Speaker 3: the answer, But if.

841
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:04,440
Speaker 2: Your job is literally to market it to it channel.

842
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:06,440
Speaker 5: Like Apple, if when the iPhone first came out and

843
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:08,520
Speaker 5: people asked about the iPhone, like are people really good?

844
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:11,160
Speaker 5: Apple didn't go like it's inevitable. They were like, well

845
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:13,399
Speaker 5: try try it and you'll you'll see.

846
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:16,800
Speaker 4: I will say, Steve Jobs famously an asshole.

847
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 3: You're holding it to back them up.

848
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:23,600
Speaker 2: The messaging was you'll get used to it, like the

849
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 2: Apple way was, you'll get you this we know better.

850
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:29,160
Speaker 2: But that's not what AI is saying. That it's happening.

851
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:31,919
Speaker 2: And the funny thing is about AIS was if AI

852
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:36,359
Speaker 2: was I can say to my computer load this, do this,

853
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:39,520
Speaker 2: and it actually did it every time, that'd be fucking sick.

854
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 3: Well that's what That's.

855
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:43,400
Speaker 2: What Microsoft's pitching you. But the they are lying it

856
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:47,680
Speaker 2: just like I swear to fucking God, I thought public

857
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:50,080
Speaker 2: companies couldn't just fucking lie. But I can only do

858
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:50,440
Speaker 2: it about it.

859
00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:52,799
Speaker 4: If you're all in the same grift, it doesn't matter, right.

860
00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:54,919
Speaker 4: And also what what we're learning is that rules don't matter,

861
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:56,920
Speaker 4: just don't apply to the rich and the powerful.

862
00:37:56,920 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 1: But here's the thing gravity does, and I think they

863
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:04,520
Speaker 1: will be punished all uh like when when the stocks

864
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:06,440
Speaker 1: in videos kind of down, today's kind of fun watch.

865
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:09,160
Speaker 1: It's also funny as well because none of it really

866
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:12,480
Speaker 1: clicks with what uses desire. Because what uses theizarre right

867
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:14,719
Speaker 1: now is I wish my phone just fucking worked. I

868
00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:18,240
Speaker 1: wish every app didn't need to ping me fourteen times

869
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:20,520
Speaker 1: a day to say have you thought about using me?

870
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:23,759
Speaker 4: I think just work? It is just just just do

871
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:24,799
Speaker 4: what I ask you to do.

872
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:28,240
Speaker 3: What when you're saying that the companies themselves don't even

873
00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:30,960
Speaker 3: fully believe what? What's what more is.

874
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:33,759
Speaker 4: I've talked to a whole bunch of excators. I bring

875
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:35,600
Speaker 4: this question to every big company I talked to, and

876
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:37,440
Speaker 4: early on the Microsoft was doing copil, I was like,

877
00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:40,840
Speaker 4: this thing doesn't work right, Like you're you're making me.

878
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:43,880
Speaker 4: You make me want to use copilot as like a

879
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:46,600
Speaker 4: search engine, but I cannot trust it. It's not always

880
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:49,480
Speaker 4: delivering correct information. If I bought a calculator that said

881
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:51,720
Speaker 4: two plus two equals five. I would throw it away

882
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:55,560
Speaker 4: because it's garbage. And the Microsoft people were like, it's

883
00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:59,120
Speaker 4: a work in progress, we're gonna get better, and that

884
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:01,760
Speaker 4: that they're making you accept a certain level of bullshit

885
00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:04,920
Speaker 4: because they can't stop. They've invested too much in it.

886
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:08,359
Speaker 4: They practically are invested in half of open AI, so

887
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:11,520
Speaker 4: like they can't stop. It's too big and their stock

888
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:13,600
Speaker 4: is being rewarded for it, so they can't say.

889
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:15,840
Speaker 3: Anything but okay, and again just to play devil's advocate

890
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:19,720
Speaker 3: and that this is not this doesn't the views reflected

891
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:24,080
Speaker 3: here are not my own. I can you know, I

892
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:28,520
Speaker 3: look at what AI take, images take image production for example,

893
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:32,520
Speaker 3: what the images that AI could create four years ago

894
00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:35,320
Speaker 3: versus the images that a I can still still images

895
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 3: that AI can create today are unrecognizable. But Trinity, they're

896
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 3: so much better when they were producing the dog shit

897
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:48,240
Speaker 3: images four years ago. If somebody was like if I

898
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:50,359
Speaker 3: you know, like if you do the same calculator thing,

899
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:52,520
Speaker 3: and then they're like, well, yeah, it's a work in progress,

900
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:54,200
Speaker 3: and in four years the calculator is going to say

901
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:56,960
Speaker 3: two plus to equals for every single time. Again, I

902
00:39:56,960 --> 00:39:58,920
Speaker 3: think that that is a fair response.

903
00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:02,200
Speaker 2: That's the thing though, this is one I've answered a lot.

904
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:04,839
Speaker 1: This is one where I'm like, oh so that made

905
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:07,719
Speaker 1: sense maybe two years ago, so it made sense, like

906
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:11,359
Speaker 1: I would say, it stopped being rational to do that,

907
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:16,920
Speaker 1: like maybe I mean at latest March last year, so

908
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:20,040
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five, I would say, right up until I

909
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:23,080
Speaker 1: mis generation with GPT. That was when you sprank bonk.

910
00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:25,799
Speaker 1: I know people are gonna say nano, but nano banana.

911
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:29,080
Speaker 1: I went in an entire day without saying nana banana,

912
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:30,600
Speaker 1: which is now on televisions.

913
00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:37,440
Speaker 2: It's just like bana is Google's image genera.

914
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:39,440
Speaker 3: Like the best, the best one on the mods and.

915
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:41,440
Speaker 1: People like, look, it can generate a picture of a

916
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:45,320
Speaker 1: woman for some reason that I'm using.

917
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:48,920
Speaker 3: Like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like it's like tube generation.

918
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:50,399
Speaker 2: Y oh god.

919
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:53,080
Speaker 4: And they can't answer the basic question about the entire

920
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:57,160
Speaker 4: idea of imagery generation, which is what I But the.

921
00:40:57,120 --> 00:40:59,480
Speaker 1: Thing is it's not like it's but the thing is,

922
00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:03,000
Speaker 1: it's not having these meteoric jumps yet four years ago

923
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:04,280
Speaker 1: sort of twenty yeah.

924
00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:06,600
Speaker 3: You're saying, you're saying, like the curve is leveling, Yes.

925
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:08,799
Speaker 1: So we've reached the point of diminishing returns. Because the

926
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:11,000
Speaker 1: way these models get better is two ways. One you

927
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:13,520
Speaker 1: feed data enter them. Two you tweak the models. By

928
00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:16,600
Speaker 1: they you basically tweak their outputs. You say, don't do this,

929
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:19,520
Speaker 1: do this. Yeah, things with images, you're right up against

930
00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:21,800
Speaker 1: the wall. Now they've got about where they can get.

931
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:23,879
Speaker 1: And their thing they'll say, is like, look, we've made

932
00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:28,200
Speaker 1: some realistic looking images. The problem isn't making one realistic image.

933
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:33,120
Speaker 1: It's doing the same thing more than once reliably, maybe twice, thrice,

934
00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:35,640
Speaker 1: a hundred times. It's being able to have a consistent

935
00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:38,520
Speaker 1: visual image. And you can kind of do that, but

936
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:42,040
Speaker 1: it takes a shit ton of computational power. And as

937
00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:45,320
Speaker 1: we run up against the realm of running out of money,

938
00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:47,880
Speaker 1: that's become the problem. But also most of them have

939
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:50,400
Speaker 1: hit diminishing returns because we've run out of data.

940
00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:53,440
Speaker 2: We are out of data. You mean, feed of things

941
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:56,359
Speaker 2: to feed into the thing, slap for slop slot, well,

942
00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:58,440
Speaker 2: pig food for the slot.

943
00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 3: For the pigs too, food they can make to poop.

944
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:03,319
Speaker 4: But here's the basic question about image generation, Like, I

945
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:05,759
Speaker 4: don't care how much better it's getting. Yeah, I don't care.

946
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:09,360
Speaker 4: Who gives a shit about? Why does this exist?

947
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:11,600
Speaker 5: That's the thing like with so much of this, like

948
00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:14,520
Speaker 5: the like when we talk about like the calculator that

949
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:16,360
Speaker 5: you know has to get the math problem correct.

950
00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:18,640
Speaker 3: Well, there's the use case for that is it gets you.

951
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:23,720
Speaker 5: Yeah, with AI generation and an AI video image generation

952
00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:26,480
Speaker 5: and video generation, it's sort of just like Okay, you

953
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:28,040
Speaker 5: can do it, but what is the purpose?

954
00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:30,279
Speaker 4: Like like the guys are like, oh, you can make

955
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:31,720
Speaker 4: a wallpaper for your TV.

956
00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:32,399
Speaker 3: I don't.

957
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:34,200
Speaker 4: I don't turn my keb on for a wallpaper. I

958
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:34,560
Speaker 4: don't care.

959
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:37,719
Speaker 3: It's like who gives a who gives like the point

960
00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:38,040
Speaker 3: for me?

961
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:39,760
Speaker 5: Like like people like, oh, you can take a picture

962
00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:42,520
Speaker 5: of selfie yourself and insert yourself and different. Well, for me,

963
00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:44,440
Speaker 5: like when I want to look at a picture of myself,

964
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:48,719
Speaker 5: it's because I want to remember that experience that I experienced.

965
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:51,920
Speaker 5: But what if I put myself in an AI image

966
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:54,160
Speaker 5: generator and it puts me in front of the pyramids

967
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:54,680
Speaker 5: in Egypt?

968
00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:56,640
Speaker 3: Why the fuck do I care? I don't know no

969
00:42:56,719 --> 00:42:58,040
Speaker 3: memory there of me doing that.

970
00:42:58,120 --> 00:42:59,680
Speaker 1: I saw a really evil one where it's like a

971
00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:02,360
Speaker 1: guy showing his grandmother with de men. She like a

972
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:06,320
Speaker 1: picture of her with Jimi hendrakes parody. The following is parody.

973
00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:08,319
Speaker 1: I think that person should be fucking told I.

974
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:10,480
Speaker 3: Know, I'm so glad you brought that up, because I have.

975
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:14,560
Speaker 2: You should be in fucking pret you disgusting, fucking months stuff.

976
00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:19,960
Speaker 5: Facebook consistently hammers me with recommendations of groups for people

977
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:23,080
Speaker 5: who are asking people to like clean up their family

978
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:26,360
Speaker 5: photos and stuff. And those groups are now full of

979
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:30,799
Speaker 5: people who come in and go, oh, my daughter or

980
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:34,120
Speaker 5: grandma or whoever in my family died and this is

981
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:36,560
Speaker 5: the only photo I have of them, can you make

982
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:39,880
Speaker 5: a color or fix it? And now all the responses

983
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:43,040
Speaker 5: are people putting it through the AI image generators, and

984
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:45,680
Speaker 5: they spit out things that don't really look like the

985
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:49,000
Speaker 5: deceased family member. And some of these people love it,

986
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:51,560
Speaker 5: and some people can put them in like the deceased

987
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:54,080
Speaker 5: family member picture in a video generator that.

988
00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:56,120
Speaker 3: Generates yesifying that grandfather.

989
00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:59,480
Speaker 5: But it's like, you know, at some point, these image

990
00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:03,320
Speaker 5: generators are going to distort your memory of the actual person,

991
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:05,960
Speaker 5: because because if you only have one photo of someone

992
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:09,360
Speaker 5: and that photo was cleaned up quote unquote, but it

993
00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:12,040
Speaker 5: changed how your family member looks, and you're constantly looking

994
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:15,160
Speaker 5: at that photo. It's gonna eventually actually fuck with your

995
00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:18,480
Speaker 5: real memory of what that person looked like or sounded like,

996
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:20,960
Speaker 5: for like the voice cloning stuff. And it's like, I

997
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:23,560
Speaker 5: think that's so fucking unhealthy. And they're gonna have a

998
00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:28,120
Speaker 5: world of people who remember their own ancestors as people

999
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:30,759
Speaker 5: who did not even exist because they.

1000
00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:31,800
Speaker 3: Don't have an actual.

1001
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:35,000
Speaker 5: Photo in their brain of how they actually look they

1002
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:37,040
Speaker 5: had the AI generated photo of them.

1003
00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:40,800
Speaker 3: I completely agree, and I'm sure that this is already happening.

1004
00:44:41,239 --> 00:44:43,360
Speaker 3: And then I and this is where I get a

1005
00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:45,680
Speaker 3: little nihilistic. This ise where I get a little depressed.

1006
00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:51,839
Speaker 3: I wind up going my impulse as a millennial who

1007
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:56,719
Speaker 3: experienced the world's pre in you know, or pre ubiquitous internet.

1008
00:44:57,320 --> 00:45:00,400
Speaker 3: My instinct is that like, their brains going to be

1009
00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:03,480
Speaker 3: fucked up by shit like that because and it feels

1010
00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:04,960
Speaker 3: good in the moment, And so they keep doing the

1011
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:07,160
Speaker 3: drug And why wouldn't you if the drug dealer keeps

1012
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:08,880
Speaker 3: coming to your house. Of course, it is going to

1013
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:10,719
Speaker 3: be very difficult to say no. It's much easier to

1014
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:13,000
Speaker 3: say no when the drug is not inside your house

1015
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:15,600
Speaker 3: all the time. And so they're gonna keep doing the drug.

1016
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:18,000
Speaker 3: They're going to fuck up the brain. They're gonna have

1017
00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:22,360
Speaker 3: these this insane relationship with memory and with emotion and

1018
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:26,400
Speaker 3: with human connectivity. And then I want to say, and

1019
00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:30,280
Speaker 3: at some point they will, in their heart of hearts,

1020
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:33,960
Speaker 3: understand that this is bad. In years, decades. I'm not saying,

1021
00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:36,000
Speaker 3: you know, they'll wake up one week, yeah, but like

1022
00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:37,920
Speaker 3: at some point in their old age or in their

1023
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:41,560
Speaker 3: middle age, they will go, Wow, this is bad. I

1024
00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:43,920
Speaker 3: don't know how to describe this. I don't know how

1025
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:45,839
Speaker 3: to articulate this, but I can feel in my heart

1026
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:49,560
Speaker 3: that something is disconnected from what the human experience should be.

1027
00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:51,799
Speaker 4: I think that's partially what we're doing right now, because

1028
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:54,640
Speaker 4: people are using these tools and not fully thinking about it,

1029
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:58,439
Speaker 4: and there are just so many philosophical questions about us,

1030
00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:01,359
Speaker 4: like how do we process information, we process memory, how

1031
00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:04,440
Speaker 4: does this work within our society? What's the anthropological impact

1032
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:09,040
Speaker 4: of all this falsified information? Like there's immediate harms of nothing.

1033
00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:11,600
Speaker 4: We can't trust reality anymore, we can't trust anything because

1034
00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:14,640
Speaker 4: they can just make up fact. But also the eventual

1035
00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:18,279
Speaker 4: harms is that the idea of memory is just gonna disappear.

1036
00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:19,560
Speaker 3: I mean, I mean, but.

1037
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:21,799
Speaker 5: Another thing I've seen, And then this is the really

1038
00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:25,440
Speaker 5: really depressing one, Like someone will ask for something like

1039
00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:27,680
Speaker 5: they'll post the photo of their you know, child who

1040
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:30,720
Speaker 5: died it like you know, nine months, three years whatever,

1041
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:32,480
Speaker 5: and they'm like, oh, I'd love to see how they

1042
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:34,680
Speaker 5: would look if they made it to like forty.

1043
00:46:34,719 --> 00:46:36,520
Speaker 3: And it's like, no, don't do that, No, no, no,

1044
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:37,839
Speaker 3: right exactly, don't do that.

1045
00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:41,560
Speaker 5: You have the actual image or videos of them when

1046
00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:44,040
Speaker 5: they existed and who they were and what they were,

1047
00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:47,000
Speaker 5: and just keep that in your memory. Don't look at

1048
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:50,400
Speaker 5: this person who never will or did exist right that

1049
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:51,280
Speaker 5: they're generating.

1050
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:53,880
Speaker 3: It's just odd and the same, all.

1051
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:56,719
Speaker 1: Of that photo editing stuff, and in particularly the new

1052
00:46:56,719 --> 00:46:59,080
Speaker 1: things where you can be like, okay, add saw to

1053
00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:02,560
Speaker 1: the photo, make look like in America, give my grandmother

1054
00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:04,759
Speaker 1: giant abs, like all of the things that you can

1055
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:05,239
Speaker 1: do with AI.

1056
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:07,319
Speaker 3: Now all right now, now, now you've got my.

1057
00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:12,759
Speaker 2: Make my yoke my grandma a phrase to remember all

1058
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:12,920
Speaker 2: of you.

1059
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:15,120
Speaker 3: Yes, yoke my grandma.

1060
00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:17,480
Speaker 2: But here's the thing. I genuinely believe all of this

1061
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:19,920
Speaker 2: is going away. No one, no one other than the.

1062
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:22,040
Speaker 1: Is really willing to fully go. I think all of

1063
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:25,040
Speaker 1: this goes away. I think everything dies within two years.

1064
00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:27,200
Speaker 1: I think all I think that there is going to

1065
00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:29,920
Speaker 1: be the big egg face moment, and no one is

1066
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:32,399
Speaker 1: really no one wants to take the logical point, which

1067
00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:34,880
Speaker 1: is the people who are dependent on these things are

1068
00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:37,319
Speaker 1: not going to have a thingy anymore unless they're going

1069
00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:40,040
Speaker 1: to put deep seek R one on their laptop of

1070
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:44,239
Speaker 1: like thirty seconds between responses, because I think all of

1071
00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:46,680
Speaker 1: this is just I think every image is like a

1072
00:47:46,719 --> 00:47:49,040
Speaker 1: few but my theory, I'm just this is gutt instincts.

1073
00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:51,000
Speaker 1: I think it's like a few bucks per image, and

1074
00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:53,800
Speaker 1: I think and I hear MT Technology revied a article

1075
00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:59,520
Speaker 1: middle of last year. Images are more cheaper than text,

1076
00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:04,160
Speaker 1: but there's still very expensive but nothing I was surprised too,

1077
00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:07,200
Speaker 1: but I forget the actual thing. But all of this,

1078
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:09,920
Speaker 1: like the video generation stuff that's gone away.

1079
00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:12,920
Speaker 3: First, So and and sorry that a couple dollars per

1080
00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:14,560
Speaker 3: imagery whatever is.

1081
00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:16,279
Speaker 2: For them to produce.

1082
00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:19,600
Speaker 3: Being paid by open AI, or it is.

1083
00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:21,839
Speaker 2: For those paying for the GPS to run.

1084
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:23,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, okay, And that's another thing though.

1085
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:27,160
Speaker 5: Most of the AI generated stuff you see out there

1086
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:30,200
Speaker 5: not professional work obviously, but like things people post on

1087
00:48:30,239 --> 00:48:33,040
Speaker 5: social media or whatever. They're just using like the free

1088
00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:35,840
Speaker 5: version of a lot of exactly because no one. No

1089
00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:38,400
Speaker 5: one wants to actually, unless you're using it again for

1090
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:39,360
Speaker 5: professional purposes.

1091
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:43,080
Speaker 3: No one is paying its fo my grandma for free.

1092
00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:45,040
Speaker 3: No one wants to pay for the subscriptions.

1093
00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:47,400
Speaker 1: And that's the thing. Open ai asked this big thing.

1094
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:49,440
Speaker 1: People love to eam and be like what if they

1095
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:51,759
Speaker 1: did adds? If you are someone who's emailed me about

1096
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:55,799
Speaker 1: it that you're like, seventy five thousands, Wow, what if

1097
00:48:55,840 --> 00:48:58,040
Speaker 1: they did adds? Here's the problem the information and a

1098
00:48:58,120 --> 00:49:00,719
Speaker 1: great story this week was nine hundred million week connective users,

1099
00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:04,120
Speaker 1: though they bullshit those numbers. Eight hundred million of those

1100
00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:07,280
Speaker 1: are outside of the US, thus their lower value advertising clients.

1101
00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:09,920
Speaker 2: So yeah, most of them are free. They're just and

1102
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:12,000
Speaker 2: the most exciting. And the funny thing is is even

1103
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:15,319
Speaker 2: the ones that hey are the most enthusiastic who cost

1104
00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:17,600
Speaker 2: you the most money. Open ai loses money even on

1105
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:19,040
Speaker 2: their two hundred bucks a month one.

1106
00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:22,279
Speaker 1: So the more the more you like something, the worse

1107
00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:24,640
Speaker 1: you are as a customer. It's usually the opposite.

1108
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:28,040
Speaker 2: It's usually like your power user of Facebook doesn't cost

1109
00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:30,920
Speaker 2: them that much because it's basic. It's just so the

1110
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:33,200
Speaker 2: way a website works is like Facebook is.

1111
00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:36,360
Speaker 3: No, all right, ed, I know I'm a lady, and

1112
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:38,120
Speaker 3: I know I'm not in tech. No, I'm kidding.

1113
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:40,799
Speaker 5: So when you when you should be in a buck,

1114
00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:42,280
Speaker 5: so picture a computer.

1115
00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:45,799
Speaker 2: No no, no no, don't maybe be sarcasting and be

1116
00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:48,000
Speaker 2: like do you do you know what CAMI is?

1117
00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:51,279
Speaker 1: So it's when you run a website like Facebook, where

1118
00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:54,040
Speaker 1: you access a page with some videos. The streaming doesn't

1119
00:49:54,080 --> 00:49:56,840
Speaker 1: require it's like a CPU and like require storage and

1120
00:49:56,920 --> 00:50:00,879
Speaker 1: RAM like in a big server. That is intensive because

1121
00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:03,839
Speaker 1: they have shit tons of users. But because like shit

1122
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:05,759
Speaker 1: tons of users, it's just because you have a lot

1123
00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:08,080
Speaker 1: of them. It's not because the process of serving you

1124
00:50:08,239 --> 00:50:12,720
Speaker 1: Facebook or Instagram is super expensive to do. It's expensive

1125
00:50:12,719 --> 00:50:14,880
Speaker 1: because they have so many people. The problem is with

1126
00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:18,920
Speaker 1: AI is that having one user who's particularly demanding is.

1127
00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:22,280
Speaker 3: Extremely expenctually an every bearing costs on the company.

1128
00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:25,759
Speaker 1: Exactly because GPUs are extremely they are cost intensive. They

1129
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:27,839
Speaker 1: require a lot of energy, but they also put out

1130
00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:30,800
Speaker 1: a shit ton of heat, which requires a bunch of cooling.

1131
00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:33,960
Speaker 1: And the bigger the data center, the more intensive the cooling.

1132
00:50:34,080 --> 00:50:35,719
Speaker 1: And I had someone email me the other day saying,

1133
00:50:36,040 --> 00:50:38,360
Speaker 1: really big data centers can cause like the giga what

1134
00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:40,360
Speaker 1: once can cause like weather effects with the amount of

1135
00:50:40,360 --> 00:50:40,680
Speaker 1: heats that.

1136
00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:43,400
Speaker 4: This, and they're affecting the local communities.

1137
00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:46,839
Speaker 3: And just to clarify what you were saying earlier about

1138
00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:49,560
Speaker 3: when you when you're saying the logical endpoint of your

1139
00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:53,360
Speaker 3: pessimism about AI or whatever hell you want to frame it,

1140
00:50:54,239 --> 00:50:56,319
Speaker 3: the logical endpoint is that all of this goes away.

1141
00:50:57,200 --> 00:51:01,920
Speaker 3: You're saying it collapses is from a financial standpoint, yes,

1142
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:03,880
Speaker 3: but what that? But then the logical endpoint of that

1143
00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:07,719
Speaker 3: is that the company's anthropic open AI what I'm chat

1144
00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:11,640
Speaker 3: GPT go, Well, we don't have the money anymore to

1145
00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:14,680
Speaker 3: run these data centers correct. And the data centers are

1146
00:51:14,719 --> 00:51:17,880
Speaker 3: what are required to when somebody types in your my

1147
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:20,920
Speaker 3: grammar yea, yeah, we need the data center to be

1148
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:23,920
Speaker 3: having to have the electricity on and have the air

1149
00:51:23,960 --> 00:51:27,520
Speaker 3: conditioning running. Yes, and that when somebody's not paying those bills,

1150
00:51:27,880 --> 00:51:29,880
Speaker 3: then I can't get my grammar yoke correct.

1151
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:32,400
Speaker 1: And there's no economic reason to do it because the

1152
00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:35,080
Speaker 1: the vedrous point, the only reason they're doing this right

1153
00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:36,319
Speaker 1: now is because their.

1154
00:51:36,239 --> 00:51:37,160
Speaker 2: Stock value is growing.

1155
00:51:37,239 --> 00:51:40,960
Speaker 1: Microsoft, Google, Amazon, Meta they've seen their stock grow, not

1156
00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:43,640
Speaker 1: because of AI revenues, they don't talk about those, but

1157
00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:46,120
Speaker 1: because AI is so big, so huge and so yoke. Yeah,

1158
00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:49,160
Speaker 1: everyone's talking AI. But the moment and the thing is

1159
00:51:49,719 --> 00:51:52,440
Speaker 1: I've heard people say, oh, well, it's a chat GPT bubble,

1160
00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:54,000
Speaker 1: it's not an AI bubble.

1161
00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:56,160
Speaker 2: Here's the thing. Oh yeah, it's a really.

1162
00:51:56,040 --> 00:51:57,600
Speaker 3: Right how does somebody thread that needle?

1163
00:51:57,640 --> 00:52:01,520
Speaker 1: Because they're fucking stupid. The argument is that, well, open

1164
00:52:01,560 --> 00:52:04,200
Speaker 1: ay is the worst business of all time. It burns

1165
00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:07,200
Speaker 1: money forever. They have no profitability, but all the other

1166
00:52:07,239 --> 00:52:08,960
Speaker 1: ones will be okay, there will be other winners. The

1167
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:11,520
Speaker 1: problem is is that this is a vibees based thing,

1168
00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:15,399
Speaker 1: and now what happens to the vibe when the main

1169
00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:18,480
Speaker 1: business that everyone knows like eight hundred and nine hundred

1170
00:52:18,480 --> 00:52:21,279
Speaker 1: million weekly active users compared to everyone else where they

1171
00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:24,400
Speaker 1: have like twenty Now you may think you've heard Microsoft

1172
00:52:24,440 --> 00:52:26,680
Speaker 1: say they've got hundreds of millions of Copilt. You've heard

1173
00:52:26,840 --> 00:52:29,560
Speaker 1: Google say hundreds of millions of Google Gemini. That's because

1174
00:52:29,560 --> 00:52:32,200
Speaker 1: they put them in their main products. But even then

1175
00:52:33,160 --> 00:52:35,279
Speaker 1: their shareholders are just going to go, right, why are

1176
00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:37,080
Speaker 1: you spending on this fucking money on this why are

1177
00:52:37,080 --> 00:52:41,400
Speaker 1: you propping up these insanely expensive things? And if you

1178
00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:43,600
Speaker 1: wonder why I'm so confident about this, none of them

1179
00:52:43,680 --> 00:52:46,839
Speaker 1: talk about the revenues or the costs, right sure.

1180
00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:50,360
Speaker 5: The thing also though, is if AI was did disappear,

1181
00:52:50,560 --> 00:52:53,000
Speaker 5: what do customers? What do consumers lose out?

1182
00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:53,160
Speaker 2: Like?

1183
00:52:53,239 --> 00:52:54,880
Speaker 4: What what is the care?

1184
00:52:55,080 --> 00:52:58,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, and the things that people may use in their

1185
00:52:58,160 --> 00:53:02,280
Speaker 5: everyday life, like like AI transcription or voice to text.

1186
00:53:02,680 --> 00:53:05,040
Speaker 5: We're at the point now where those models actually can

1187
00:53:05,080 --> 00:53:06,719
Speaker 5: just live on your personal computer. You don't need an

1188
00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:10,160
Speaker 5: outside server at all, You don't need a company to

1189
00:53:10,200 --> 00:53:11,080
Speaker 5: pay a monthly fee to.

1190
00:53:11,440 --> 00:53:12,760
Speaker 3: You can just download a model.

1191
00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:15,040
Speaker 5: It's a few gigs and you have your own voice

1192
00:53:15,080 --> 00:53:17,600
Speaker 5: to text and your own transcription. It's that other more

1193
00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:20,080
Speaker 5: intensive stuff that are just like little toys that no

1194
00:53:20,120 --> 00:53:22,040
Speaker 5: one really needs that will just go away.

1195
00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:24,600
Speaker 4: To me, that that that is the logical outcome by ways,

1196
00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:26,919
Speaker 4: like the big AI will die off to a certain

1197
00:53:26,960 --> 00:53:30,239
Speaker 4: degree that will lead to widespread economic devastation. But yes,

1198
00:53:30,360 --> 00:53:31,879
Speaker 4: like that will be hard.

1199
00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:34,480
Speaker 2: It's going to be great financial crisis in mind.

1200
00:53:34,320 --> 00:53:36,680
Speaker 4: Could be worse than financial crisis, could be a depression

1201
00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:40,759
Speaker 4: level hit on the world economy. So that worries me,

1202
00:53:41,160 --> 00:53:44,280
Speaker 4: but in for when it comes, because all these companies

1203
00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:50,080
Speaker 4: but the idea of local, the idea of like local

1204
00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:52,480
Speaker 4: AI and stuff that's just like, Okay, my watch is

1205
00:53:52,520 --> 00:53:55,680
Speaker 4: a little better, I can transcribe to my computer that

1206
00:53:55,840 --> 00:53:57,960
Speaker 4: lives locally. That does happen.

1207
00:53:58,040 --> 00:53:59,600
Speaker 2: That's already one piece of bad news.

1208
00:53:59,680 --> 00:54:02,080
Speaker 1: Though, the only reason those models are being worked on

1209
00:54:02,200 --> 00:54:03,920
Speaker 1: right now is because the big ones, And once those

1210
00:54:03,960 --> 00:54:05,640
Speaker 1: big ones go away, they're not going to have any

1211
00:54:05,680 --> 00:54:08,320
Speaker 1: fucking reason to do them. They don't care about transcription,

1212
00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:10,399
Speaker 1: they don't care about the easeful stuff they care about.

1213
00:54:10,760 --> 00:54:12,520
Speaker 4: They still need a reason to sell you a new

1214
00:54:12,600 --> 00:54:13,759
Speaker 4: laptop every y and I.

1215
00:54:13,960 --> 00:54:16,120
Speaker 2: Someone think this is going to be enough of one,

1216
00:54:16,160 --> 00:54:19,680
Speaker 2: and I my thing is like, I'm not sure how

1217
00:54:19,719 --> 00:54:24,239
Speaker 2: we're going to intellectually reconcile with this, because this is

1218
00:54:24,280 --> 00:54:25,680
Speaker 2: the world panshitting competition.

1219
00:54:25,760 --> 00:54:28,080
Speaker 4: It's also everything is so fucking stupid right now, like

1220
00:54:28,200 --> 00:54:31,120
Speaker 4: every every level. If you we've been in the CS

1221
00:54:31,160 --> 00:54:32,960
Speaker 4: bubble but looking at the wider world right now, yeah,

1222
00:54:33,400 --> 00:54:38,239
Speaker 4: so yes, it's so dumb, Like we Trump invading Venezuela

1223
00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:40,600
Speaker 4: was how we started this year. I was born in Guyana,

1224
00:54:40,680 --> 00:54:42,960
Speaker 4: South America. The country right next to Venezuela and it's

1225
00:54:43,000 --> 00:54:46,000
Speaker 4: probably right next on like because they just found oil.

1226
00:54:46,160 --> 00:54:48,920
Speaker 4: So xill I was like just out there taking all

1227
00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:49,799
Speaker 4: that stuff right now.

1228
00:54:49,800 --> 00:54:51,040
Speaker 3: Put it back. We didn't find anything.

1229
00:54:51,160 --> 00:54:54,440
Speaker 4: Things links are so stupid right now. So that's why

1230
00:54:54,640 --> 00:54:57,000
Speaker 4: I do kind of feel like, yes, we're going to see.

1231
00:54:56,800 --> 00:54:58,719
Speaker 1: It, but this is and I know this sounds hard

1232
00:54:58,800 --> 00:55:02,480
Speaker 1: to reconcile. I think this is going to be stupid. Oh,

1233
00:55:02,640 --> 00:55:06,520
Speaker 1: just because hear me out. Every major CEO.

1234
00:55:06,360 --> 00:55:08,440
Speaker 2: Has added AI has talked about a It's all they

1235
00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:11,759
Speaker 2: talk about is AI. Every major tech company AIAIAI and

1236
00:55:11,880 --> 00:55:14,560
Speaker 2: a bunch of people we work for, not me personally,

1237
00:55:14,600 --> 00:55:16,799
Speaker 2: but tons of people we work for. People have said

1238
00:55:16,840 --> 00:55:19,800
Speaker 2: that AI is the future. World leaders, AI is the future.

1239
00:55:19,880 --> 00:55:22,400
Speaker 2: Everyone said AI the future, and I think all of

1240
00:55:22,480 --> 00:55:24,560
Speaker 2: them are wrong. What are we meant to do with

1241
00:55:24,680 --> 00:55:29,040
Speaker 2: that information? Because this is Trump politics. Okay, there's voting,

1242
00:55:29,080 --> 00:55:29,960
Speaker 2: there's like a process.

1243
00:55:30,440 --> 00:55:33,960
Speaker 1: This is like for now the sure But the foundations

1244
00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:38,840
Speaker 1: of economic movement, but also knowledge in the world and

1245
00:55:39,320 --> 00:55:43,040
Speaker 1: like consensus, reality and paradigms themselves have been based on

1246
00:55:43,080 --> 00:55:45,480
Speaker 1: the idea that the people running the money, people running

1247
00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:49,759
Speaker 1: businesses are somewhat intelligent that would not be fucking wrong.

1248
00:55:50,040 --> 00:55:54,080
Speaker 1: And what's become obvious is almost nobody knows anything ever.

1249
00:55:54,160 --> 00:55:56,359
Speaker 1: And I don't mean this in the cutesy like oh,

1250
00:55:56,440 --> 00:55:59,400
Speaker 1: bosses don't know stuff. I mean these people have just

1251
00:55:59,520 --> 00:56:02,680
Speaker 1: been fucking wrong, like wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, just

1252
00:56:02,760 --> 00:56:03,759
Speaker 1: like AI will do this.

1253
00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:05,719
Speaker 4: But it's not. It's not just say I I will

1254
00:56:05,760 --> 00:56:09,080
Speaker 4: tell you that. Like when I started covering technology and

1255
00:56:09,280 --> 00:56:11,160
Speaker 4: doing drenals, and I was mainly like writing about startups

1256
00:56:11,200 --> 00:56:13,120
Speaker 4: at the time, like, oh cool, these kind these guys,

1257
00:56:13,360 --> 00:56:16,680
Speaker 4: their ideas are so interesting. They've gotten billions of usually

1258
00:56:16,760 --> 00:56:19,080
Speaker 4: millions of dollars of investment. I was talking to you know,

1259
00:56:19,160 --> 00:56:20,840
Speaker 4: Kevin sisterm and the Instagram guys when it was just

1260
00:56:20,880 --> 00:56:22,600
Speaker 4: four dudes. I was like, oh man, they must be

1261
00:56:22,680 --> 00:56:27,000
Speaker 4: so smart and so interesting. No, usually rasually, not usually,

1262
00:56:27,320 --> 00:56:29,840
Speaker 4: just like you have You're a nerd who knows how

1263
00:56:29,880 --> 00:56:32,800
Speaker 4: to code, who came up with like one interesting idea,

1264
00:56:33,160 --> 00:56:35,880
Speaker 4: and the vcs were just throwing money at you. And

1265
00:56:36,480 --> 00:56:38,640
Speaker 4: and even when it comes to like business, big business

1266
00:56:38,680 --> 00:56:42,359
Speaker 4: in general, people rise to the top not often through

1267
00:56:42,400 --> 00:56:44,719
Speaker 4: their skill. It's through they've been there long enough, or

1268
00:56:45,000 --> 00:56:47,800
Speaker 4: they're a good enough company shell logical.

1269
00:56:47,920 --> 00:56:51,239
Speaker 1: My point is, imagine if the Great Financial Crisis. Yeah,

1270
00:56:51,280 --> 00:56:53,520
Speaker 1: Microsoft was in housing, Google was in housing. I was

1271
00:56:53,520 --> 00:56:56,279
Speaker 1: always in housing, Disney entered housing, everyone bought houses, and

1272
00:56:56,320 --> 00:56:58,480
Speaker 1: everyone was selling houses, and everyone was offering mortgages. I

1273
00:56:58,520 --> 00:57:01,120
Speaker 1: wanted mortgages, mortgages with the future of every single business

1274
00:57:01,160 --> 00:57:02,080
Speaker 1: in the entire world.

1275
00:57:02,840 --> 00:57:05,600
Speaker 2: Everyone on LinkedIn was saying I'm a housing expert. Now

1276
00:57:06,160 --> 00:57:07,080
Speaker 2: that is it.

1277
00:57:07,320 --> 00:57:09,880
Speaker 1: Except when they said housing, they meant cat litter boxes

1278
00:57:10,520 --> 00:57:11,840
Speaker 1: because I'm joking.

1279
00:57:11,920 --> 00:57:15,879
Speaker 3: But it's like, yeah, what if everyone went was wrong?

1280
00:57:16,040 --> 00:57:16,240
Speaker 2: Wrong?

1281
00:57:16,360 --> 00:57:21,040
Speaker 1: Wrong in a way that's not political. It's just obvious

1282
00:57:21,200 --> 00:57:24,800
Speaker 1: that so many people we thought were smart were just

1283
00:57:24,960 --> 00:57:26,960
Speaker 1: like able to do mad libs.

1284
00:57:27,040 --> 00:57:31,600
Speaker 3: I have a question about the leaders who have backed AI. Right, Okay,

1285
00:57:31,760 --> 00:57:33,760
Speaker 3: as I see it, there's two categories that I understand,

1286
00:57:33,800 --> 00:57:35,680
Speaker 3: and I'm going to ask about what is the middle category.

1287
00:57:35,920 --> 00:57:39,680
Speaker 3: The middle category category that I understand is tech ceo

1288
00:57:40,400 --> 00:57:44,520
Speaker 3: who has whose company has some vested financial interest in

1289
00:57:45,240 --> 00:57:49,120
Speaker 3: AI being successful? Right, totally get it? Absolutely, Like why

1290
00:57:49,160 --> 00:57:53,360
Speaker 3: would Google add Gemini shove their products great? Because they

1291
00:57:53,440 --> 00:57:57,160
Speaker 3: are like they are. They see a potential financial benefit

1292
00:57:57,320 --> 00:57:57,960
Speaker 3: we'll find.

1293
00:57:57,960 --> 00:58:00,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, they were also Google's holding off. Google is trying

1294
00:58:00,960 --> 00:58:02,560
Speaker 4: to be cool and chill about it, and then opening

1295
00:58:02,600 --> 00:58:04,360
Speaker 4: eye kind of blew the doors open, and then they

1296
00:58:04,400 --> 00:58:05,320
Speaker 4: had to brush everything out.

1297
00:58:05,480 --> 00:58:09,960
Speaker 3: Sure, yeahah, okay, that category. I understand. Then CEOs of

1298
00:58:10,120 --> 00:58:14,520
Speaker 3: companies who have been sold the lie of AI can

1299
00:58:14,600 --> 00:58:19,160
Speaker 3: make your whole company work better. That I also completely understand, Like,

1300
00:58:19,640 --> 00:58:25,640
Speaker 3: you know, Salesforce saying, I guess this is sort of

1301
00:58:25,640 --> 00:58:28,120
Speaker 3: an example of the middle cuttery. Somebody at Salesforce being like,

1302
00:58:28,160 --> 00:58:30,560
Speaker 3: we're gonna add AI and AI is flashy and sexy

1303
00:58:30,640 --> 00:58:32,440
Speaker 3: and that's a new and it's it's the best thing,

1304
00:58:32,720 --> 00:58:35,080
Speaker 3: and then turning to home Depot and being like, now

1305
00:58:35,200 --> 00:58:38,400
Speaker 3: you should pay us extra because our new Salesforce category

1306
00:58:38,600 --> 00:58:41,520
Speaker 3: or our new Salesforce product has AI and that's going

1307
00:58:41,560 --> 00:58:43,840
Speaker 3: to make your life better. And home Depot goes great, awesome,

1308
00:58:43,880 --> 00:58:46,360
Speaker 3: will pay more for them. But that I understand. I like,

1309
00:58:46,440 --> 00:58:47,600
Speaker 3: I understand the the.

1310
00:58:48,040 --> 00:58:49,840
Speaker 2: But even those don't truly make sense.

1311
00:58:49,840 --> 00:58:51,760
Speaker 3: But keep going right, right, right right, And I like

1312
00:58:51,840 --> 00:58:56,040
Speaker 3: disagree with the efficacy, but I understand the messaging. They're

1313
00:58:56,480 --> 00:59:02,600
Speaker 3: what CEOs or what company have added AI trumpeted AI,

1314
00:59:03,520 --> 00:59:08,520
Speaker 3: you know, championed AI that are not in the category

1315
00:59:08,600 --> 00:59:12,920
Speaker 3: of their company is a direct financial benefit benefactor to

1316
00:59:13,120 --> 00:59:16,000
Speaker 3: the technology or or like a direct owner of the

1317
00:59:16,080 --> 00:59:17,440
Speaker 3: technology versus technology.

1318
00:59:17,480 --> 00:59:20,800
Speaker 1: Disney Disney right right, right, being one of the most

1319
00:59:20,920 --> 00:59:23,880
Speaker 1: journalist outlets, and they will claim, oh AI will generate stories.

1320
00:59:23,920 --> 00:59:24,360
Speaker 2: They don't.

1321
00:59:24,640 --> 00:59:26,760
Speaker 1: And I actually pushed back on the things with Salesforce

1322
00:59:26,800 --> 00:59:28,720
Speaker 1: because there's a really cool thing, well, sales was it.

1323
00:59:29,160 --> 00:59:31,080
Speaker 1: I will choose another company. In my head, Salesforce is

1324
00:59:31,160 --> 00:59:33,320
Speaker 1: so special, but like a software company in this case.

1325
00:59:33,920 --> 00:59:36,120
Speaker 1: The really simple thing I'll say to that is even

1326
00:59:36,160 --> 00:59:38,280
Speaker 1: they don't make sense because it don't work. It don't

1327
00:59:38,360 --> 00:59:40,360
Speaker 1: do that like it don't it, don't do it. It

1328
00:59:40,440 --> 00:59:42,960
Speaker 1: don't do fingy like you say the whole thing copil

1329
00:59:43,120 --> 00:59:45,400
Speaker 1: Solon doesn't work. It doesn't work. It's never worked.

1330
00:59:46,960 --> 00:59:48,800
Speaker 3: It works enough. No, it doesn't.

1331
00:59:48,880 --> 00:59:51,560
Speaker 4: It is good enough for people to be using it.

1332
00:59:52,040 --> 00:59:55,919
Speaker 4: My issues are you're a computer should be you should

1333
00:59:55,960 --> 00:59:58,520
Speaker 4: be like I gotta push back. It doesn't.

1334
00:59:58,680 --> 01:00:00,760
Speaker 1: There have been like eight different always in the last

1335
01:00:00,840 --> 01:00:04,000
Speaker 1: year where Microsoft's three sixty five co pilot can't do

1336
01:00:04,120 --> 01:00:05,520
Speaker 1: things like prepare PowerPoint.

1337
01:00:05,600 --> 01:00:08,320
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, it's like specific failures, yes, but on the

1338
01:00:08,520 --> 01:00:09,440
Speaker 4: general failures.

1339
01:00:09,560 --> 01:00:12,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, on the general what's like the general general.

1340
01:00:12,960 --> 01:00:15,080
Speaker 4: What I'm saying is like, you ask Copilot or you

1341
01:00:15,160 --> 01:00:17,840
Speaker 4: asked Gemini, like a question, and it will get to

1342
01:00:17,840 --> 01:00:19,360
Speaker 4: your response. It is good enough.

1343
01:00:19,640 --> 01:00:19,880
Speaker 2: It will.

1344
01:00:20,040 --> 01:00:22,040
Speaker 4: He was like, hey, make me a chart of this data. Hey,

1345
01:00:22,200 --> 01:00:25,680
Speaker 4: that actually works. A lot of that stuff does. Maybe

1346
01:00:25,880 --> 01:00:28,440
Speaker 4: I'm not trustworthy, Like that's the thing that means it

1347
01:00:28,480 --> 01:00:31,120
Speaker 4: doesn't well, no, no, no, But there are variations of

1348
01:00:31,200 --> 01:00:31,800
Speaker 4: how badly.

1349
01:00:32,040 --> 01:00:33,800
Speaker 1: But the thing is, if there's a variation of how

1350
01:00:33,960 --> 01:00:36,400
Speaker 1: well something works, that just means it doesn't work most

1351
01:00:36,440 --> 01:00:36,760
Speaker 1: of the time.

1352
01:00:36,960 --> 01:00:40,200
Speaker 4: Sure, but hundreds of millions of people are still like

1353
01:00:40,600 --> 01:00:41,000
Speaker 4: using them.

1354
01:00:41,080 --> 01:00:44,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, because they're being they're being pushed into by everybody.

1355
01:00:44,400 --> 01:00:47,840
Speaker 4: But people like using the like for them, the degree

1356
01:00:47,880 --> 01:00:49,960
Speaker 4: of like as good enough as it can be for them.

1357
01:00:50,000 --> 01:00:52,440
Speaker 4: It's good enough. That's why we're pushing back though, and

1358
01:00:52,440 --> 01:00:54,480
Speaker 4: we're saying, like, you can't trust this data, you can't

1359
01:00:54,480 --> 01:00:57,160
Speaker 4: trust this stuff. They're not thinking about that, but they're

1360
01:00:57,320 --> 01:01:00,400
Speaker 4: just using it. So we'll continue this debate. It's not

1361
01:01:00,480 --> 01:01:04,200
Speaker 4: really a debate. We're shortly after this break. This next

1362
01:01:04,320 --> 01:01:08,720
Speaker 4: ad is for specifically boomers. It's called Where's My Pills.

1363
01:01:09,120 --> 01:01:11,400
Speaker 2: There's someone called to be really angry at this one.

1364
01:01:11,880 --> 01:01:26,240
Speaker 2: They're in the draw mate, and we return to our scene.

1365
01:01:26,280 --> 01:01:28,560
Speaker 2: I'm now joined by Edward and Graso Junior of the

1366
01:01:28,640 --> 01:01:32,240
Speaker 2: Tech Bubble newsletter. Hello, my friends, Chloe Radcliffe, of.

1367
01:01:32,240 --> 01:01:35,440
Speaker 1: Course the actress and stand up comedian who it's you,

1368
01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:37,680
Speaker 1: And of course Devinger Harder of Anger Jam.

1369
01:01:37,840 --> 01:01:38,080
Speaker 3: Hello.

1370
01:01:38,360 --> 01:01:40,600
Speaker 2: And I think we're in an interesting point in the

1371
01:01:40,840 --> 01:01:41,040
Speaker 2: in the.

1372
01:01:41,080 --> 01:01:42,760
Speaker 1: Show where we're all like getting to the end and

1373
01:01:42,800 --> 01:01:44,680
Speaker 1: we're realizing we have to go back to the real

1374
01:01:44,760 --> 01:01:49,000
Speaker 1: world and there's this thing of this AI thing and

1375
01:01:49,160 --> 01:01:51,720
Speaker 1: this whole, this whole situation where and to get back

1376
01:01:51,720 --> 01:01:53,480
Speaker 1: to the debate we're just having. It's like, yeah, it

1377
01:01:53,600 --> 01:01:56,880
Speaker 1: kind of works, but I don't think that people realize

1378
01:01:56,960 --> 01:01:59,720
Speaker 1: that because it only kind of works when they start

1379
01:02:00,280 --> 01:02:04,200
Speaker 1: what it actually costs, which is like probably two to

1380
01:02:04,440 --> 01:02:07,960
Speaker 1: five to fifteen times what they're charging. No one's going

1381
01:02:08,040 --> 01:02:10,120
Speaker 1: to want to pay for the half fast thing anymore,

1382
01:02:10,400 --> 01:02:12,480
Speaker 1: and many will not be able to pay for it

1383
01:02:12,520 --> 01:02:14,360
Speaker 1: at all. Like I was saying yesterday, a lot of

1384
01:02:14,440 --> 01:02:18,040
Speaker 1: these companies that are just thing bolted onto LLM die

1385
01:02:18,360 --> 01:02:20,120
Speaker 1: just immediately, like just they will.

1386
01:02:21,120 --> 01:02:21,920
Speaker 2: Turn to dust.

1387
01:02:22,080 --> 01:02:26,000
Speaker 1: Because imagine if the core fuel of a car of course,

1388
01:02:26,200 --> 01:02:29,600
Speaker 1: like double tripled cadrupled in battle in cost of course.

1389
01:02:30,080 --> 01:02:37,240
Speaker 3: I okay, interesting proposition here. Do you think two questions?

1390
01:02:37,920 --> 01:02:42,600
Speaker 3: Do you think that AI companies will start charging subscription rates?

1391
01:02:43,600 --> 01:02:48,440
Speaker 3: Uh before the financial implosion that you predict?

1392
01:02:49,000 --> 01:02:51,960
Speaker 2: Yeah? I think that. Well, you've already kind of seen signs,

1393
01:02:52,000 --> 01:02:53,840
Speaker 2: and they're very unfair with this.

1394
01:02:53,960 --> 01:02:56,480
Speaker 1: No one likes this one. Both open AI and Anthropic

1395
01:02:56,520 --> 01:02:59,920
Speaker 1: of added priority processing to their API customers. API just

1396
01:03:00,080 --> 01:03:02,400
Speaker 1: refers to instead of you or me using like chat,

1397
01:03:02,480 --> 01:03:04,920
Speaker 1: GPT or claude, you as a company would connect your

1398
01:03:05,000 --> 01:03:08,360
Speaker 1: software with an API to their service and then run

1399
01:03:08,400 --> 01:03:09,960
Speaker 1: on top of it. Now, when you run something on

1400
01:03:10,000 --> 01:03:11,960
Speaker 1: top of these models, you're effectively just prompting them.

1401
01:03:12,160 --> 01:03:16,080
Speaker 3: A API stands for a application big interface.

1402
01:03:17,800 --> 01:03:22,040
Speaker 2: I there you go, Yeah, that's yeah. My brain couldn't

1403
01:03:22,040 --> 01:03:23,320
Speaker 2: think of the real one, so I can't.

1404
01:03:24,920 --> 01:03:29,480
Speaker 1: But it's like those companies cannot survive with a product

1405
01:03:29,600 --> 01:03:32,520
Speaker 1: with a cost race. I had a reader listener and

1406
01:03:32,600 --> 01:03:35,080
Speaker 1: reader reach out and actually tell me that you need

1407
01:03:35,200 --> 01:03:37,800
Speaker 1: priority processing if you're above a certain things, just your

1408
01:03:37,840 --> 01:03:41,120
Speaker 1: cost double there automatically. And I think the the other

1409
01:03:41,200 --> 01:03:43,200
Speaker 1: thing that people will say is, oh, the cost of

1410
01:03:43,320 --> 01:03:46,240
Speaker 1: models is coming down. Classic talking point Jensen Huang and

1411
01:03:46,320 --> 01:03:48,919
Speaker 1: is Nvidio thing his press conference said, or the cost

1412
01:03:48,960 --> 01:03:52,240
Speaker 1: of models is coming down. Yeah, but it's kind of

1413
01:03:52,360 --> 01:03:54,400
Speaker 1: like if the cost of fuel came down a bit,

1414
01:03:54,680 --> 01:03:58,080
Speaker 1: but your journey to work took fifteen times longer, because

1415
01:03:58,160 --> 01:04:00,600
Speaker 1: now when you use a new model, it isn't just

1416
01:04:00,640 --> 01:04:03,520
Speaker 1: spitting out on output. It's using models that use more

1417
01:04:03,560 --> 01:04:07,600
Speaker 1: computational power to give you slightly better results. So it

1418
01:04:07,680 --> 01:04:10,720
Speaker 1: may be cheaper it well, it's not. It takes longer.

1419
01:04:10,840 --> 01:04:14,120
Speaker 1: It uses more tokens just for simplifications sake. Sure the

1420
01:04:14,240 --> 01:04:16,840
Speaker 1: thing that happened that they generate to give you an answer,

1421
01:04:17,520 --> 01:04:19,920
Speaker 1: It uses a reasoning model, which uses more tokens to

1422
01:04:19,960 --> 01:04:22,880
Speaker 1: do the output. So while it might be cheaper on

1423
01:04:23,040 --> 01:04:25,920
Speaker 1: a token basis, you're using more of the fuckers, so

1424
01:04:26,000 --> 01:04:27,120
Speaker 1: it's not cheaper at all.

1425
01:04:27,320 --> 01:04:28,640
Speaker 2: It's actually more expensive.

1426
01:04:28,960 --> 01:04:31,520
Speaker 4: Yeah. We can argue a lot about the air industry

1427
01:04:31,600 --> 01:04:32,080
Speaker 4: like that's yeah.

1428
01:04:32,120 --> 01:04:33,040
Speaker 2: Sorry, some Indian thing.

1429
01:04:33,320 --> 01:04:33,840
Speaker 4: I will say.

1430
01:04:34,000 --> 01:04:36,640
Speaker 2: We are seeing the direct impacts of the rise of

1431
01:04:36,680 --> 01:04:39,680
Speaker 2: THEI right, go on, talk about memory and see the

1432
01:04:39,760 --> 01:04:42,400
Speaker 2: fucking HBI the memory. I'd love to talk about this.

1433
01:04:42,920 --> 01:04:46,000
Speaker 4: RAM prices have increased by three to four times across

1434
01:04:46,040 --> 01:04:48,600
Speaker 4: the board, which is insane, and that'll affect everything that

1435
01:04:48,640 --> 01:04:51,400
Speaker 4: affects phones, computers, whatever, cause.

1436
01:04:51,640 --> 01:04:55,120
Speaker 3: Like this every like everything because car is computer car.

1437
01:04:55,920 --> 01:04:59,280
Speaker 4: So any device needs some sort of memory. What is

1438
01:04:59,360 --> 01:05:01,560
Speaker 4: interesting is like we are seeing the direct impact of

1439
01:05:01,640 --> 01:05:04,960
Speaker 4: that already Dell's XPS fourteen, which should be a computer

1440
01:05:05,080 --> 01:05:07,640
Speaker 4: that costs under fifteen hundred dollars because of what it is,

1441
01:05:07,720 --> 01:05:10,160
Speaker 4: and that's what the competition is. And that was about

1442
01:05:10,240 --> 01:05:12,280
Speaker 4: the pricing Dell gave me when I first wrote my post,

1443
01:05:12,360 --> 01:05:15,800
Speaker 4: they set sixteen hundred. Next day an update, that thing

1444
01:05:15,920 --> 01:05:17,800
Speaker 4: is going to start at twenty fifty dollars.

1445
01:05:17,960 --> 01:05:21,360
Speaker 2: Jesus Christ, because because they're.

1446
01:05:21,200 --> 01:05:23,800
Speaker 4: Not going to say why, but I would logically think

1447
01:05:23,960 --> 01:05:25,720
Speaker 4: like that is going to be the highest cost for

1448
01:05:25,720 --> 01:05:28,400
Speaker 4: a lot of new systems. That is insane. That is

1449
01:05:28,480 --> 01:05:31,400
Speaker 4: a it's a premium ultraportable. Sure that thing should cost

1450
01:05:31,480 --> 01:05:33,800
Speaker 4: under fifteen hundred bucks or about fifteen hundred dollars. So

1451
01:05:33,960 --> 01:05:35,680
Speaker 4: we are going to see similar premiums like that.

1452
01:05:35,880 --> 01:05:37,600
Speaker 3: Are you sayings you need to get a new computer,

1453
01:05:37,720 --> 01:05:38,840
Speaker 3: do it now, because it's going.

1454
01:05:39,040 --> 01:05:42,280
Speaker 4: Worse, Do it immediately, and maybe buy used or refurbished

1455
01:05:42,280 --> 01:05:45,880
Speaker 4: which is my recommendation for everything. But yeah, buying a

1456
01:05:45,960 --> 01:05:47,680
Speaker 4: new system this year is going to suck.

1457
01:05:47,920 --> 01:05:49,600
Speaker 1: So we're going to do an episode on this next

1458
01:05:49,600 --> 01:05:51,200
Speaker 1: week with Steve Bug from Games and Nexus.

1459
01:05:51,480 --> 01:05:51,680
Speaker 3: Nice.

1460
01:05:51,920 --> 01:05:56,360
Speaker 2: So RAM in random axis memory a website is yeah, no, no, no,

1461
01:05:57,080 --> 01:05:57,600
Speaker 2: this is the thing.

1462
01:05:58,280 --> 01:05:59,880
Speaker 3: No I want, I want this, don't.

1463
01:06:00,000 --> 01:06:02,720
Speaker 1: The best lesson Sophie and Robert gave me is explain everything,

1464
01:06:02,760 --> 01:06:04,680
Speaker 1: because even if you think you know something, you don't.

1465
01:06:04,800 --> 01:06:07,960
Speaker 1: So RAM is when you quickly need information to do

1466
01:06:08,040 --> 01:06:10,680
Speaker 1: a task on a computer, so you couldn't access the

1467
01:06:10,720 --> 01:06:12,760
Speaker 1: hard drive. No matter how fast the hard drive is,

1468
01:06:12,840 --> 01:06:14,560
Speaker 1: it's not fast enough to get something immediately.

1469
01:06:14,920 --> 01:06:17,760
Speaker 2: AI services are extremely.

1470
01:06:17,200 --> 01:06:20,120
Speaker 1: Demanding on something called high bandwidth RAM, which is just

1471
01:06:20,360 --> 01:06:22,920
Speaker 1: allows you to keep a bunch of memory stuff in

1472
01:06:23,040 --> 01:06:24,800
Speaker 1: the RAM so you can constantly access it.

1473
01:06:24,800 --> 01:06:26,760
Speaker 2: Because that's how LMS works. Someone's gonna email me and

1474
01:06:26,760 --> 01:06:30,280
Speaker 2: say a truncated that shut the fuck up. But it's Nevertheless,

1475
01:06:30,520 --> 01:06:32,080
Speaker 2: because of the demands.

1476
01:06:31,720 --> 01:06:37,000
Speaker 1: Of Nvidia building GPUs, of Broadcom building their own bullshit GPUs,

1477
01:06:37,200 --> 01:06:39,480
Speaker 1: AMD building their own bullshit GPUs, the.

1478
01:06:39,560 --> 01:06:44,040
Speaker 2: Price of RAM across the world has increased. Now eagle

1479
01:06:44,080 --> 01:06:47,680
Speaker 2: eared listeners may think I heard a story Edward about

1480
01:06:47,720 --> 01:06:50,520
Speaker 2: open Ai taking forty percent of the world's RAM. This

1481
01:06:50,720 --> 01:06:54,400
Speaker 2: story is bullshit, and everyone pushing it is a fucking liar.

1482
01:06:54,880 --> 01:06:57,600
Speaker 1: If you look on sk heinez and so open Ai

1483
01:06:57,680 --> 01:07:01,000
Speaker 1: did a deal quote unquote with sk Heinex and Samsung,

1484
01:07:01,160 --> 01:07:03,760
Speaker 1: two companies out in Asia where they were going to

1485
01:07:03,800 --> 01:07:06,320
Speaker 1: get hundreds of thousands of wafers of RAM, just the

1486
01:07:06,400 --> 01:07:08,240
Speaker 1: things that you can't into RAM, which is insane on

1487
01:07:08,280 --> 01:07:10,720
Speaker 1: its own, But it was a letter of intent, which

1488
01:07:10,840 --> 01:07:13,160
Speaker 1: is a concept of idea. It's like, if you and

1489
01:07:13,240 --> 01:07:15,520
Speaker 1: I are email, why do we do this? It means

1490
01:07:15,600 --> 01:07:18,600
Speaker 1: fucking nothing, And everyone's trying to blame that. No, what

1491
01:07:18,640 --> 01:07:22,000
Speaker 1: it is is just every GPU, anyone doing anything with

1492
01:07:22,080 --> 01:07:22,600
Speaker 1: GPS is.

1493
01:07:22,640 --> 01:07:26,200
Speaker 4: Just did you see the buying RAM, the new Nvidia supercomputer,

1494
01:07:26,400 --> 01:07:29,080
Speaker 4: the Vera Rubin thing. I hate that they're using these

1495
01:07:29,960 --> 01:07:34,040
Speaker 4: actual scientists to apply to these things. It seems so disrespectful.

1496
01:07:34,320 --> 01:07:37,880
Speaker 4: But one point five terabytes of RAM in this Vera

1497
01:07:37,960 --> 01:07:41,400
Speaker 4: Rubin supercomputer, and that's that's this. So it's like a

1498
01:07:43,080 --> 01:07:44,720
Speaker 4: one point five terabytes.

1499
01:07:44,880 --> 01:07:47,640
Speaker 2: How many of that? How one point five terabytes per

1500
01:07:47,760 --> 01:07:48,600
Speaker 2: how many GPUs?

1501
01:07:48,920 --> 01:07:51,080
Speaker 4: I'm gonna have to look into the specific HEREI there's

1502
01:07:51,080 --> 01:07:53,040
Speaker 4: a lot of chusing, and I believe it's in the

1503
01:07:53,120 --> 01:07:54,240
Speaker 4: fall that's in the full thing.

1504
01:07:54,360 --> 01:07:57,600
Speaker 3: I'm sorry not to be a woman who doesn't work

1505
01:07:57,640 --> 01:08:01,840
Speaker 3: in tech about this. This very an so supercomputer named

1506
01:08:01,880 --> 01:08:04,320
Speaker 3: after a lady, and we think it's disrespectful. Yes, tell

1507
01:08:04,320 --> 01:08:06,720
Speaker 3: me the name again, Vera Rubin Viera Ruben. Okay, the

1508
01:08:06,800 --> 01:08:09,560
Speaker 3: Vera Ruben computer is a big box and it's really powerful.

1509
01:08:09,840 --> 01:08:12,240
Speaker 3: And inside there's a smaller there's a little shoe box

1510
01:08:12,280 --> 01:08:13,000
Speaker 3: that you can keep all.

1511
01:08:12,880 --> 01:08:16,519
Speaker 4: The little yeah, and like little smaller computers are all

1512
01:08:16,600 --> 01:08:17,440
Speaker 4: tied together.

1513
01:08:17,320 --> 01:08:21,880
Speaker 3: Yes, tie together. Okay. RAM is like one box where

1514
01:08:21,920 --> 01:08:24,280
Speaker 3: you have all sorts of random things that you might need.

1515
01:08:24,439 --> 01:08:26,439
Speaker 3: It's like a chick I know, I know, but I'm

1516
01:08:26,880 --> 01:08:28,400
Speaker 3: just I'm picturing it in my head.

1517
01:08:28,800 --> 01:08:32,000
Speaker 4: If you if you imagine like city block, right, different

1518
01:08:32,120 --> 01:08:34,920
Speaker 4: blocks are different components. The RAM is the streets in

1519
01:08:35,000 --> 01:08:39,000
Speaker 4: between them to deliver information. Okay, So more RAM, bigger streets,

1520
01:08:39,160 --> 01:08:41,439
Speaker 4: high band with RAM, faster streets, faster traffic.

1521
01:08:41,520 --> 01:08:41,600
Speaker 3: Right.

1522
01:08:41,640 --> 01:08:45,200
Speaker 4: Okay, So that's the basic thing. It's just a shit

1523
01:08:45,280 --> 01:08:46,639
Speaker 4: ton of data. That's what I need.

1524
01:08:47,080 --> 01:08:50,040
Speaker 2: Why, oh my god, it's one point five terribies but

1525
01:08:50,200 --> 01:08:51,080
Speaker 2: fucking rack.

1526
01:08:51,200 --> 01:08:52,880
Speaker 4: O peract and there's a lot of racks in there.

1527
01:08:53,360 --> 01:08:54,439
Speaker 3: There's a lot of racks in there.

1528
01:08:54,520 --> 01:08:58,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I fucking dicent will be full of like hundreds.

1529
01:08:58,800 --> 01:09:01,960
Speaker 3: Racks on racks on rag literally. Okay, but hold on,

1530
01:09:02,200 --> 01:09:04,120
Speaker 3: why is RAM a limited?

1531
01:09:05,000 --> 01:09:07,040
Speaker 4: There are only three companies in the world to make it,

1532
01:09:07,240 --> 01:09:10,360
Speaker 4: and you can have you go, But that's basically they're

1533
01:09:10,400 --> 01:09:13,519
Speaker 4: only three companies and nobody expected they were fine. We

1534
01:09:13,640 --> 01:09:16,439
Speaker 4: were fine, and nobody expected that. Why do you need

1535
01:09:16,560 --> 01:09:19,200
Speaker 4: so much? God damn ram? Nobody was prepared to do this.

1536
01:09:19,479 --> 01:09:22,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, And is RAM a physical thing that somebody makes?

1537
01:09:22,640 --> 01:09:25,840
Speaker 1: Yes, it's so the preparation, it's I'm going to fuck

1538
01:09:25,880 --> 01:09:27,960
Speaker 1: this up slightly, so deventure, please correct me if I get.

1539
01:09:27,880 --> 01:09:30,160
Speaker 4: Say, I am not an architecture. So there's a company.

1540
01:09:29,880 --> 01:09:33,080
Speaker 1: Called TSMC Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing.

1541
01:09:33,960 --> 01:09:34,640
Speaker 2: I think I get that.

1542
01:09:35,200 --> 01:09:37,320
Speaker 1: Also, I respect companies that are just like what's your

1543
01:09:37,400 --> 01:09:39,800
Speaker 1: name business companies like fuck, yeah, just tell me what

1544
01:09:39,880 --> 01:09:42,080
Speaker 1: you do. They have these things with fabs and they

1545
01:09:42,160 --> 01:09:44,880
Speaker 1: basically build chips and there's a whole fucking supply chain

1546
01:09:44,920 --> 01:09:45,720
Speaker 1: of how chips are made.

1547
01:09:46,080 --> 01:09:47,160
Speaker 2: You get wafers of RAM.

1548
01:09:47,280 --> 01:09:50,240
Speaker 1: You caught them up sounds delicious, isn't you get? No,

1549
01:09:50,320 --> 01:09:52,120
Speaker 1: you get like a big sheet of you get a

1550
01:09:52,160 --> 01:09:54,400
Speaker 1: big sheet of memories. Yeah, and then you caught them up.

1551
01:09:54,479 --> 01:09:55,639
Speaker 1: Making chips is fucking cool.

1552
01:09:56,120 --> 01:09:59,880
Speaker 3: But you're saying this wafer is a certain amount of chips.

1553
01:10:00,080 --> 01:10:02,360
Speaker 3: You print the sheet. You may make a sheet of

1554
01:10:02,439 --> 01:10:04,880
Speaker 3: a thousand chips, and then a wafer is one hundred chips.

1555
01:10:05,080 --> 01:10:06,880
Speaker 1: A wafer is just the thing that you carp into chips.

1556
01:10:06,960 --> 01:10:09,760
Speaker 1: But really simple, just just you don't need to know

1557
01:10:09,880 --> 01:10:13,439
Speaker 1: that pit, just really simple. There is a limited amount

1558
01:10:13,600 --> 01:10:18,200
Speaker 1: of machinery to build RAM. There are what there's Skehix,

1559
01:10:18,280 --> 01:10:20,080
Speaker 1: Samsung and who else who makes them?

1560
01:10:20,560 --> 01:10:23,840
Speaker 2: Marvel, Marvel's. There's like three companies who make RAM.

1561
01:10:23,920 --> 01:10:26,280
Speaker 3: And we can't make more machines to make m It's.

1562
01:10:26,200 --> 01:10:27,519
Speaker 2: Just limited space there spent.

1563
01:10:28,240 --> 01:10:29,920
Speaker 4: It's going to take a long time to spin that up.

1564
01:10:30,520 --> 01:10:34,000
Speaker 1: One important detail. So making chips in general requires something

1565
01:10:34,040 --> 01:10:37,040
Speaker 1: called a clean room. So think about any scientific process

1566
01:10:37,080 --> 01:10:39,800
Speaker 1: that cannot be interfered with by any contaminants.

1567
01:10:39,840 --> 01:10:44,320
Speaker 3: Growing mushrooms in your garage, right, take it three.

1568
01:10:44,280 --> 01:10:46,360
Speaker 1: Hundred steps higher where it's just like if a single

1569
01:10:46,400 --> 01:10:48,439
Speaker 1: speck of dust gets in there, you fuck up millions,

1570
01:10:48,560 --> 01:10:50,920
Speaker 1: hundreds of millions of dollars, Like, it's really you have

1571
01:10:51,040 --> 01:10:54,840
Speaker 1: massive things, and to run these machines requires very specific

1572
01:10:56,240 --> 01:10:58,800
Speaker 1: talent that we don't have enough of. But also there's

1573
01:10:59,360 --> 01:11:01,280
Speaker 1: only a so an amount of space in the world,

1574
01:11:01,560 --> 01:11:03,479
Speaker 1: so we're just we're at the limits. And while they're

1575
01:11:03,520 --> 01:11:06,800
Speaker 1: building more fabs where you build these things, there's only

1576
01:11:06,960 --> 01:11:10,840
Speaker 1: so much. Right now, we have these fucking assholes who

1577
01:11:10,880 --> 01:11:13,200
Speaker 1: are like, I need one point five terabytes to give

1578
01:11:13,200 --> 01:11:16,160
Speaker 1: you an idea, Like I think this iPhone air has

1579
01:11:16,200 --> 01:11:20,080
Speaker 1: eight gigabytes of RAM. Terror byte is one thousand gigabytes

1580
01:11:20,120 --> 01:11:24,160
Speaker 1: of incorrect Yeah, correct, great stuff. So it's just like

1581
01:11:24,439 --> 01:11:27,840
Speaker 1: you have one big asshole taking all the chips. Now

1582
01:11:28,000 --> 01:11:30,840
Speaker 1: back to my I worry about the collapse thing we're

1583
01:11:30,880 --> 01:11:33,080
Speaker 1: gonna have. We have all of this allocation being done

1584
01:11:33,120 --> 01:11:36,680
Speaker 1: for one company. What happens those aren't selling anymore. We're

1585
01:11:36,680 --> 01:11:39,679
Speaker 1: gonna just have fucking chaos. But until then, the price

1586
01:11:39,720 --> 01:11:42,120
Speaker 1: of RAM is going to keep going up and it's

1587
01:11:42,160 --> 01:11:43,720
Speaker 1: going to be harder to get, which will make it

1588
01:11:43,800 --> 01:11:46,760
Speaker 1: more expensive, which will make every single consumer device more

1589
01:11:46,800 --> 01:11:47,920
Speaker 1: expensive without exception.

1590
01:11:48,040 --> 01:11:50,320
Speaker 3: And again, just to ask the stupid question when we

1591
01:11:50,439 --> 01:11:52,880
Speaker 3: say the price of RAM is going up. I could

1592
01:11:53,000 --> 01:11:56,879
Speaker 3: equivalently say the price per RAM chip.

1593
01:11:56,800 --> 01:11:59,479
Speaker 2: Is yes, exactly, sure, great, And it's kind of it's

1594
01:11:59,560 --> 01:12:02,479
Speaker 2: like it's a very simple supply chain things like if

1595
01:12:02,520 --> 01:12:05,519
Speaker 2: the price of wheels went up, cause would become more expensive.

1596
01:12:05,520 --> 01:12:07,439
Speaker 2: I realized that it's a city, but like it's a

1597
01:12:07,600 --> 01:12:10,320
Speaker 2: very simple thing and it's affecting everything, and I'm that's

1598
01:12:10,400 --> 01:12:11,160
Speaker 2: what pisses me off.

1599
01:12:11,320 --> 01:12:13,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, because like we can debate about like how useful

1600
01:12:13,320 --> 01:12:15,880
Speaker 4: AI is, but the direct impact to consumers right now,

1601
01:12:15,960 --> 01:12:19,479
Speaker 4: people building PCs, anybody buying a new computer, You're gonna

1602
01:12:19,479 --> 01:12:21,760
Speaker 4: be screwed in twenty twenty six. And I'm working on

1603
01:12:21,800 --> 01:12:24,160
Speaker 4: a piece right now about that because tell me, tell

1604
01:12:24,240 --> 01:12:26,479
Speaker 4: us more. Yeah, it's the same thing. It's AMD also

1605
01:12:26,479 --> 01:12:29,720
Speaker 4: announced their new high end supercomputer, you know, full I

1606
01:12:29,880 --> 01:12:33,559
Speaker 4: servers also gobs of ramp. So yesterday I sat down

1607
01:12:33,600 --> 01:12:35,599
Speaker 4: and I talked with one of the AMD executives about

1608
01:12:35,800 --> 01:12:37,600
Speaker 4: like what is the state of the computing industry, Like

1609
01:12:37,640 --> 01:12:40,560
Speaker 4: how do things look? And they admit, like, you know,

1610
01:12:40,680 --> 01:12:42,680
Speaker 4: it's going to be rough. People are probably if you're

1611
01:12:42,800 --> 01:12:44,639
Speaker 4: a PC owner and you're going to do an upgrade,

1612
01:12:44,840 --> 01:12:46,519
Speaker 4: you're probably not going to build a whole new PC

1613
01:12:46,720 --> 01:12:49,360
Speaker 4: this year. Maybe you'll just do a processor upgrade or

1614
01:12:49,439 --> 01:12:51,519
Speaker 4: GP upgrade or something. Even those are going to get expensive.

1615
01:12:51,920 --> 01:12:55,200
Speaker 4: But I think they're expecting a slowdown in this industry too,

1616
01:12:55,360 --> 01:12:57,200
Speaker 4: So it's gonna be it's gonna be tough.

1617
01:12:57,280 --> 01:13:00,200
Speaker 3: And the solution can't even just buy be buy used

1618
01:13:00,240 --> 01:13:02,120
Speaker 3: and refurbished because those prices.

1619
01:13:01,880 --> 01:13:05,000
Speaker 1: Those prices around and we're seeing the after effects of that. Actually,

1620
01:13:05,040 --> 01:13:08,479
Speaker 1: outside of this so weird example, but we're running out.

1621
01:13:08,520 --> 01:13:11,200
Speaker 1: We also don't have enough power. So gas turbines which

1622
01:13:11,200 --> 01:13:13,040
Speaker 1: they're using to power in these days send this, which

1623
01:13:13,080 --> 01:13:15,320
Speaker 1: you should not do but a doing anyway, are actually

1624
01:13:15,400 --> 01:13:18,240
Speaker 1: sold out for seven years, so they're buying old used

1625
01:13:18,320 --> 01:13:21,200
Speaker 1: gas turbines. I wouldn't be surprised if the used RAM

1626
01:13:21,320 --> 01:13:22,479
Speaker 1: market gets fucked too.

1627
01:13:22,720 --> 01:13:23,639
Speaker 4: It's already getting bad.

1628
01:13:23,640 --> 01:13:26,479
Speaker 2: But hell yeah, I mean, who do no one worries

1629
01:13:26,600 --> 01:13:30,519
Speaker 2: someone stopped making consumer ram, right of course Micron, Micron

1630
01:13:30,560 --> 01:13:31,960
Speaker 2: my dad, sorry, so.

1631
01:13:32,360 --> 01:13:34,960
Speaker 4: And I feel bad and Micron owned Crucial, and I

1632
01:13:35,000 --> 01:13:37,920
Speaker 4: feel was like the first ramstick I bought when I

1633
01:13:38,000 --> 01:13:40,120
Speaker 4: was building a computer, and like I have memories attached

1634
01:13:40,120 --> 01:13:42,519
Speaker 4: to that. My bigger worry, though, is they're lighting up

1635
01:13:42,640 --> 01:13:45,720
Speaker 4: nuclear power plants for this bullshit. And that's where it's like.

1636
01:13:45,840 --> 01:13:47,960
Speaker 2: I'm not worried about that. I'm worried more about the

1637
01:13:48,000 --> 01:13:48,599
Speaker 2: gas turbine.

1638
01:13:48,640 --> 01:13:50,599
Speaker 4: The gas is bad. The gas is bad because nuclear

1639
01:13:50,680 --> 01:13:53,760
Speaker 4: power will get that's going to be a big fight.

1640
01:13:53,880 --> 01:13:56,280
Speaker 4: But I we should we should have invested more in

1641
01:13:56,320 --> 01:13:58,320
Speaker 4: nuclear power. It may be too late, but I don't know.

1642
01:13:58,479 --> 01:14:01,559
Speaker 3: Hold on, Yeah, you're saying bad to light up nuclear

1643
01:14:01,600 --> 01:14:03,760
Speaker 3: power plants because these are old things that might not

1644
01:14:03,880 --> 01:14:06,360
Speaker 3: be in good enough shape. Well, it's just more like

1645
01:14:07,040 --> 01:14:08,720
Speaker 3: you're not saying you're not anti nuclear.

1646
01:14:08,600 --> 01:14:10,479
Speaker 4: I'm not anti nuclear power. We need that power for

1647
01:14:10,560 --> 01:14:13,240
Speaker 4: other stuff and this power should be going to like

1648
01:14:13,360 --> 01:14:17,479
Speaker 4: residential uses. And it's literally gonna be sucked up by bullshit.

1649
01:14:17,520 --> 01:14:19,559
Speaker 3: But it's still and you're and why are the gas

1650
01:14:19,600 --> 01:14:20,479
Speaker 3: turbines back gasses?

1651
01:14:20,600 --> 01:14:24,120
Speaker 1: Because because gas turbines are basically calmode. No they're not

1652
01:14:24,280 --> 01:14:26,320
Speaker 1: the same, but like they have the same after effect

1653
01:14:26,360 --> 01:14:29,439
Speaker 1: of belching out gas. And Elon Musk's data centers are

1654
01:14:29,439 --> 01:14:32,639
Speaker 1: already ruining black communities because of this very specific thing.

1655
01:14:32,760 --> 01:14:33,760
Speaker 2: They're poisoning water.

1656
01:14:34,360 --> 01:14:38,040
Speaker 1: It's really fucking horrible. But also this ram thing I

1657
01:14:38,120 --> 01:14:41,360
Speaker 1: think is gonna be everywhere, and the PC industry was

1658
01:14:41,400 --> 01:14:42,320
Speaker 1: already in decline.

1659
01:14:42,360 --> 01:14:44,479
Speaker 2: I believe they were now it was last year it

1660
01:14:44,560 --> 01:14:46,479
Speaker 2: was they actually got I thought they were having my

1661
01:14:46,600 --> 01:14:48,479
Speaker 2: bad No, but only Dell was down.

1662
01:14:48,640 --> 01:14:50,560
Speaker 4: But here's the thing, for reasons we discussed.

1663
01:14:50,320 --> 01:14:53,719
Speaker 1: Surely won't everyone be down because more expensive and Apple

1664
01:14:54,240 --> 01:14:58,000
Speaker 1: smartphone sales, like every bit of this is gonna be bad,

1665
01:14:58,439 --> 01:15:01,240
Speaker 1: and they are already running out of ways to sell

1666
01:15:01,320 --> 01:15:04,720
Speaker 1: you a phone. My biggest example being like this, why

1667
01:15:04,760 --> 01:15:08,120
Speaker 1: else would they ship Apple Intelligence, which is the most

1668
01:15:08,600 --> 01:15:11,559
Speaker 1: mass radicalization event I've seen in tech. Just I've never

1669
01:15:11,640 --> 01:15:14,040
Speaker 1: met so many people like fuck ai them people who

1670
01:15:14,160 --> 01:15:15,800
Speaker 1: use Apple Intelligence.

1671
01:15:15,280 --> 01:15:17,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, who are just like fuck this shit, I fucking

1672
01:15:17,520 --> 01:15:20,680
Speaker 2: hate this. Why I don't know why my phone is

1673
01:15:20,760 --> 01:15:23,439
Speaker 2: like sparkly rainbows and just wrong all the time and

1674
01:15:23,560 --> 01:15:26,160
Speaker 2: giving me a summary saying like eight uber's are coming your.

1675
01:15:26,080 --> 01:15:28,760
Speaker 4: Way, the notifications are bad. Apple wouldn't be doing that

1676
01:15:28,960 --> 01:15:31,439
Speaker 4: if other people weren't chasing all this. But they're being

1677
01:15:31,479 --> 01:15:34,920
Speaker 4: forced into it, and you know are they being forced

1678
01:15:34,960 --> 01:15:37,160
Speaker 4: They're kind of being forced into it because like why

1679
01:15:37,200 --> 01:15:41,360
Speaker 4: could they not be like because everyone talks stock prices, yeah, shareholders,

1680
01:15:41,400 --> 01:15:43,760
Speaker 4: stock price. Everyone's like, oh man, Apple slow to AI.

1681
01:15:43,920 --> 01:15:46,320
Speaker 4: I guess Apple doesn't have the innovation.

1682
01:15:46,640 --> 01:15:49,000
Speaker 2: You know. It's like someone didn't shit that pans yet.

1683
01:15:49,120 --> 01:15:51,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, So Apple rushed out Apple Intelligence. They got out there,

1684
01:15:52,000 --> 01:15:54,519
Speaker 4: they announced this super smart sery thing which was not

1685
01:15:54,720 --> 01:15:56,560
Speaker 4: They couldn't ship it, so they took a hit for that.

1686
01:15:56,640 --> 01:15:59,280
Speaker 4: They took a hit for the intelligence issues. Again, they

1687
01:15:59,320 --> 01:16:01,640
Speaker 4: were forced into that in a way. And hey, I

1688
01:16:01,720 --> 01:16:04,679
Speaker 4: blame them for thre the issues. But if Apple left

1689
01:16:04,720 --> 01:16:06,920
Speaker 4: its own devices as a company that is really slow

1690
01:16:07,160 --> 01:16:09,880
Speaker 4: about pushing and trying to change new things, I think

1691
01:16:09,920 --> 01:16:12,280
Speaker 4: they would at least try to make it less error prone.

1692
01:16:12,280 --> 01:16:15,200
Speaker 1: But and the point I was making was that Apple

1693
01:16:15,680 --> 01:16:18,400
Speaker 1: shoving Apple Intelligence in there was a sign that Apple

1694
01:16:18,439 --> 01:16:19,559
Speaker 1: doesn't really have anything else.

1695
01:16:19,600 --> 01:16:21,639
Speaker 2: And I will say this, people get so map when

1696
01:16:21,640 --> 01:16:22,880
Speaker 2: I like my devices. People.

1697
01:16:23,080 --> 01:16:25,800
Speaker 1: I get little emails of people being like fucking hill

1698
01:16:25,960 --> 01:16:27,479
Speaker 1: when I'm just like, yeah, I like my phone, and

1699
01:16:27,520 --> 01:16:28,840
Speaker 1: they're like fucking piece of shit.

1700
01:16:29,200 --> 01:16:32,200
Speaker 2: But it's like Apple Phone, good use it. I don't know.

1701
01:16:32,360 --> 01:16:32,960
Speaker 2: I would love an.

1702
01:16:32,920 --> 01:16:35,360
Speaker 4: Apple phone with great aspects of Apple Intelligence.

1703
01:16:35,000 --> 01:16:38,360
Speaker 1: Other than the liquid ass the new operating system that

1704
01:16:38,479 --> 01:16:40,760
Speaker 1: is so bad it makes want to scream. But it's like,

1705
01:16:41,160 --> 01:16:43,479
Speaker 1: it's just because we're and it's not because of Apple

1706
01:16:43,520 --> 01:16:45,880
Speaker 1: being a bad company, sir. It's just there's only so

1707
01:16:46,000 --> 01:16:48,160
Speaker 1: much you can do with a certain form factor. Your

1708
01:16:48,200 --> 01:16:49,519
Speaker 1: phone can only do so much.

1709
01:16:49,840 --> 01:16:53,160
Speaker 4: But there are things like, hey, voice memos instantly transcribed now,

1710
01:16:53,439 --> 01:16:54,920
Speaker 4: that is sick sick.

1711
01:16:55,640 --> 01:16:57,559
Speaker 2: Voice notes getting TransCards, it's fucking great.

1712
01:16:57,640 --> 01:17:00,800
Speaker 4: Can hit under calls now and those get trans that's

1713
01:17:00,800 --> 01:17:02,599
Speaker 4: happening because of an ARM device AI.

1714
01:17:02,720 --> 01:17:04,600
Speaker 2: And it's so that's great and that shit's dope, but

1715
01:17:04,680 --> 01:17:07,080
Speaker 2: that shit don't make growth happen like you're not. But

1716
01:17:07,240 --> 01:17:10,120
Speaker 2: also everyone does that now and that's the problem. It's like,

1717
01:17:10,600 --> 01:17:11,840
Speaker 2: how do you sell a new phone?

1718
01:17:12,240 --> 01:17:14,479
Speaker 1: So they're in this situation where how do we sell

1719
01:17:14,520 --> 01:17:16,120
Speaker 1: a new phone at a time when they're going to

1720
01:17:16,160 --> 01:17:18,720
Speaker 1: have to increase the prices on everything because RAM is

1721
01:17:18,760 --> 01:17:21,960
Speaker 1: more expensive because to make a new phone faster you

1722
01:17:22,120 --> 01:17:22,720
Speaker 1: need RAM.

1723
01:17:22,880 --> 01:17:25,400
Speaker 4: But also to fit models onto your phone you need

1724
01:17:25,479 --> 01:17:27,759
Speaker 4: more to RAM. You need more RAM because those models

1725
01:17:27,840 --> 01:17:30,000
Speaker 4: sit in memory and have to sit there and work

1726
01:17:30,040 --> 01:17:32,200
Speaker 4: all the time. They can't just like come off the story, ste.

1727
01:17:32,240 --> 01:17:34,200
Speaker 1: Do you remember in like twenty twenty twenty twenty one,

1728
01:17:34,200 --> 01:17:37,719
Speaker 1: the supply chain crisis that was caused by like basic

1729
01:17:37,840 --> 01:17:40,680
Speaker 1: goods being delayed. Yeah, this is kind of like that

1730
01:17:40,920 --> 01:17:43,800
Speaker 1: for computer and we're going to see how many things

1731
01:17:43,880 --> 01:17:48,439
Speaker 1: have computer in it, televisions, phones, cars, I mean even

1732
01:17:48,560 --> 01:17:51,680
Speaker 1: the thing we're recording on right here, that that has

1733
01:17:51,800 --> 01:17:54,320
Speaker 1: RAM in it, That everything has RAM on it that

1734
01:17:54,439 --> 01:17:55,800
Speaker 1: has any electronics these days.

1735
01:17:55,880 --> 01:17:57,880
Speaker 4: That's my big worry of twenty twenty six is basically

1736
01:17:58,000 --> 01:18:00,840
Speaker 4: worse screwed when it comes to consumer But the thing

1737
01:18:01,000 --> 01:18:03,639
Speaker 4: is it will good for prices, screwed for prices, good

1738
01:18:03,680 --> 01:18:06,639
Speaker 4: for all sorts of things, but oh sorry, keep going well,

1739
01:18:06,880 --> 01:18:09,479
Speaker 4: companies may die out like think like things will just

1740
01:18:09,560 --> 01:18:12,080
Speaker 4: be bad, but yes, prices is gonna be where it starts.

1741
01:18:12,240 --> 01:18:14,120
Speaker 1: And the other thing is is that we're at a

1742
01:18:14,200 --> 01:18:16,640
Speaker 1: point when they're they're as you've seen you are at

1743
01:18:16,760 --> 01:18:21,080
Speaker 1: the Consumer Electronics Show, You've had a very egregious example

1744
01:18:21,280 --> 01:18:24,760
Speaker 1: of how these companies do not have a fucking clue

1745
01:18:24,800 --> 01:18:27,400
Speaker 1: what to sell you. They're still they're half heartedly coming

1746
01:18:27,479 --> 01:18:30,519
Speaker 1: up with ideas like the death of a relationship. It's like, yeah,

1747
01:18:30,560 --> 01:18:34,000
Speaker 1: we're gonna go per recar guess we fucking hate each other.

1748
01:18:34,080 --> 01:18:35,679
Speaker 1: We're gonna go on what was gonna be so happy.

1749
01:18:35,880 --> 01:18:37,560
Speaker 1: Everyone's trying to come up with a little idea to

1750
01:18:37,640 --> 01:18:40,240
Speaker 1: do something with and at a time when they're struggling

1751
01:18:40,280 --> 01:18:42,200
Speaker 1: for ideas to sell more things.

1752
01:18:42,080 --> 01:18:45,680
Speaker 2: To grow the core thing they used to build, the

1753
01:18:45,800 --> 01:18:48,680
Speaker 2: thing is becoming more expensive in a way that you

1754
01:18:48,800 --> 01:18:49,600
Speaker 2: can't circumvent.

1755
01:18:49,880 --> 01:18:52,479
Speaker 1: There is no way to fix this. Good example would

1756
01:18:52,479 --> 01:18:54,200
Speaker 1: be so in Video. I may have mentioned this is

1757
01:18:54,240 --> 01:18:57,559
Speaker 1: the previous episode I'm review here. So in Nvidia Crazy Thing,

1758
01:18:57,680 --> 01:19:00,200
Speaker 1: eighty eight percent of their revenue comes from selling these

1759
01:19:00,240 --> 01:19:03,400
Speaker 1: things for data centers. A much smaller percentage comes from

1760
01:19:03,439 --> 01:19:08,879
Speaker 1: selling GPUs for gaming devices, so an Xbox, for example.

1761
01:19:09,560 --> 01:19:11,400
Speaker 1: The problem is with that is they've already raised the

1762
01:19:11,439 --> 01:19:13,640
Speaker 1: price on the Xbox. They're probably going to have to

1763
01:19:13,720 --> 01:19:16,599
Speaker 1: do it again and those GPUs now in Video also

1764
01:19:16,680 --> 01:19:18,640
Speaker 1: has deals with other companies where they can take an

1765
01:19:18,640 --> 01:19:21,160
Speaker 1: in Vidia GPU for gamers and they can sell it.

1766
01:19:21,240 --> 01:19:22,880
Speaker 1: They can say it's an Video GPU, but it's got

1767
01:19:22,920 --> 01:19:24,640
Speaker 1: our label on it. We do special things with them.

1768
01:19:25,000 --> 01:19:28,240
Speaker 1: Problem in Video is no longer including RAM with them,

1769
01:19:28,439 --> 01:19:32,760
Speaker 1: so every single non Invidio GPU company has to now

1770
01:19:32,840 --> 01:19:36,559
Speaker 1: buy RAM separately. So their supply chain just got fucked up.

1771
01:19:36,600 --> 01:19:38,880
Speaker 1: Imagine if you're a car company and you.

1772
01:19:38,960 --> 01:19:41,200
Speaker 2: Buy a certain block of car and it has certain bits,

1773
01:19:41,240 --> 01:19:44,000
Speaker 2: but you customize it and they're like, yeah, man, sorry,

1774
01:19:44,080 --> 01:19:46,000
Speaker 2: we just don't do steering wheels here anymore.

1775
01:19:46,040 --> 01:19:47,720
Speaker 1: They got real expensive. You're gonna have to buy them

1776
01:19:47,720 --> 01:19:49,840
Speaker 1: from the steering wheel guy who is now charging more.

1777
01:19:49,960 --> 01:19:52,599
Speaker 4: That's already happened to some degree to stuff like light

1778
01:19:52,720 --> 01:19:55,479
Speaker 4: ar and things like. There was technology that was in

1779
01:19:55,600 --> 01:19:59,320
Speaker 4: Tesla's like this is Cordy pilot and self driving and

1780
01:19:59,400 --> 01:20:00,439
Speaker 4: then later expensive.

1781
01:20:00,640 --> 01:20:03,160
Speaker 1: But it's the thing, though, this is a really simple

1782
01:20:03,280 --> 01:20:07,160
Speaker 1: thing though. This is just the like part of the motor.

1783
01:20:07,479 --> 01:20:12,920
Speaker 1: This is the core component of the entire computing supply

1784
01:20:13,120 --> 01:20:15,519
Speaker 1: chain everywhere that is going to go up. We're going

1785
01:20:15,560 --> 01:20:18,120
Speaker 1: to see, to your point of Indra, shit just get

1786
01:20:18,200 --> 01:20:21,000
Speaker 1: more expensive and see who can withstand that pain?

1787
01:20:21,200 --> 01:20:23,240
Speaker 3: I mean, what do you what do you think the

1788
01:20:23,360 --> 01:20:31,200
Speaker 3: chances are that inflation actually causes some kind of spark

1789
01:20:31,520 --> 01:20:38,720
Speaker 3: conflagration before the financial collapse of the AIS.

1790
01:20:38,680 --> 01:20:41,919
Speaker 1: Will lead to the Yeah, this is a form of inflation,

1791
01:20:42,320 --> 01:20:43,759
Speaker 1: honestly on the compute industry.

1792
01:20:44,080 --> 01:20:46,080
Speaker 3: I'm saying, no, no, no, sorry, that's exactly what I'm saying.

1793
01:20:46,080 --> 01:20:49,800
Speaker 3: I'm saying, like you've talked about the financial collapse of

1794
01:20:50,160 --> 01:20:55,640
Speaker 3: the AI's system of borrowing money. Ye, yeah, yeah, that

1795
01:20:56,920 --> 01:21:03,160
Speaker 3: could go bad when if if keep going Yeah okay,

1796
01:21:06,600 --> 01:21:13,559
Speaker 3: this is like playing a clarinet solo in front of everybody. Okay, uh,

1797
01:21:13,960 --> 01:21:19,160
Speaker 3: that could that financial collapse could trigger if in video stops. Fuck,

1798
01:21:19,200 --> 01:21:20,559
Speaker 3: we were just talking about this last night.

1799
01:21:20,760 --> 01:21:21,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, if in video stops.

1800
01:21:22,040 --> 01:21:25,240
Speaker 1: Most of in Vidia's revenue comes from people borrowing money, yes,

1801
01:21:25,400 --> 01:21:26,479
Speaker 1: with borrowed money.

1802
01:21:26,360 --> 01:21:28,560
Speaker 3: Yes, and if people if I mean, if if the

1803
01:21:28,600 --> 01:21:32,240
Speaker 3: bank's ever come calling for that borrowed money, they're doo

1804
01:21:32,240 --> 01:21:36,120
Speaker 3: dooo lens yes, or if in video stop, if there

1805
01:21:36,439 --> 01:21:39,320
Speaker 3: what is it? If their numbers go down, but if

1806
01:21:39,360 --> 01:21:42,400
Speaker 3: their revenue stop growing, if their revenue stop growing, Okay,

1807
01:21:42,560 --> 01:21:46,960
Speaker 3: that's the like financial system collapse, poential collapse. What do

1808
01:21:47,040 --> 01:21:50,920
Speaker 3: you think the chances are that this inflation just hits

1809
01:21:51,400 --> 01:21:56,320
Speaker 3: like general populous so severely before the actual before the

1810
01:21:56,400 --> 01:22:00,640
Speaker 3: in video financial with this computer I understand, but like,

1811
01:22:00,760 --> 01:22:02,800
Speaker 3: but like so severe, you know, I mean, people are just,

1812
01:22:02,880 --> 01:22:03,400
Speaker 3: people are.

1813
01:22:03,360 --> 01:22:04,960
Speaker 2: Just I think I get through it.

1814
01:22:05,400 --> 01:22:07,160
Speaker 1: I think I get what you're saying. It will cause

1815
01:22:07,560 --> 01:22:11,360
Speaker 1: two gut punches. It will be likely before the AI

1816
01:22:11,479 --> 01:22:14,960
Speaker 1: bubble burst, we will have a thing where anyone selling

1817
01:22:15,000 --> 01:22:19,680
Speaker 1: consumer electronics or even enterprise hardware, so just consume electronics

1818
01:22:19,720 --> 01:22:23,040
Speaker 1: for the enterprise. Their cost go up, so they will

1819
01:22:23,080 --> 01:22:26,160
Speaker 1: probably sell less because their customers will be unable to

1820
01:22:26,240 --> 01:22:28,639
Speaker 1: afford as much, which will cause a bunch of tech

1821
01:22:28,720 --> 01:22:30,960
Speaker 1: companies to not make as much money, which will lower

1822
01:22:31,000 --> 01:22:33,680
Speaker 1: the values of their stocks. This will then lead them

1823
01:22:33,720 --> 01:22:37,479
Speaker 1: to go AI AI, and then their shareholders will go, great,

1824
01:22:37,520 --> 01:22:39,920
Speaker 1: you've been saying that AI bullshit for three years, you

1825
01:22:40,000 --> 01:22:40,559
Speaker 1: got any money?

1826
01:22:40,600 --> 01:22:43,160
Speaker 2: And they go, what if I told you I had

1827
01:22:43,280 --> 01:22:45,639
Speaker 2: less money? Because it lost me? And at that point

1828
01:22:46,920 --> 01:22:48,960
Speaker 2: the world panshitting competition will end like.

1829
01:22:49,080 --> 01:22:51,320
Speaker 3: It's I guess I listen to all of this and

1830
01:22:51,560 --> 01:22:57,240
Speaker 3: I actually get my gut, which means almost nothing because

1831
01:22:57,360 --> 01:23:01,040
Speaker 3: I understand almost nothing of it. But my gut says

1832
01:23:01,120 --> 01:23:06,120
Speaker 3: that the thank you, that the the inflationary effects are

1833
01:23:06,200 --> 01:23:10,120
Speaker 3: going to actually be more immediate than.

1834
01:23:10,080 --> 01:23:10,719
Speaker 2: The AI body.

1835
01:23:10,760 --> 01:23:14,960
Speaker 3: I agree fully, And I guess I don't mean like, duh, yeah,

1836
01:23:15,040 --> 01:23:18,560
Speaker 3: they're happening now, but I mean like some degree of

1837
01:23:18,680 --> 01:23:23,680
Speaker 3: severity that that people decide is not tolerable. Yeah, and

1838
01:23:23,680 --> 01:23:26,759
Speaker 3: it will happen before the AI Bob. Sorry, we bently

1839
01:23:26,800 --> 01:23:28,680
Speaker 3: brought you into the No, no, no, you're good.

1840
01:23:28,720 --> 01:23:32,200
Speaker 7: I mean I think, I mean this raises me. The's

1841
01:23:32,240 --> 01:23:33,920
Speaker 7: something I've just been wondering where it feels like we

1842
01:23:34,040 --> 01:23:37,000
Speaker 7: just keep coming up into this problem where we are

1843
01:23:37,200 --> 01:23:43,519
Speaker 7: having uh, structural limitations imposed or you know, rushed up

1844
01:23:43,560 --> 01:23:46,880
Speaker 7: against because you know, the sector in one way or

1845
01:23:46,880 --> 01:23:51,719
Speaker 7: another is forcing allocation of resources, allocation of capital, demands

1846
01:23:51,760 --> 01:23:56,040
Speaker 7: of growth, allocation of energy to satisfy it. So you know,

1847
01:23:56,160 --> 01:23:57,960
Speaker 7: at what point does it end where you know, we

1848
01:23:58,600 --> 01:24:00,720
Speaker 7: we have a shortage of power. Now we have a

1849
01:24:00,760 --> 01:24:04,920
Speaker 7: shortage of RAM that seems to be in the short

1850
01:24:05,000 --> 01:24:07,280
Speaker 7: and medium term fundamentally unfixable.

1851
01:24:07,560 --> 01:24:10,599
Speaker 2: It is, and it's the demands of eternal growth. It really,

1852
01:24:10,760 --> 01:24:13,400
Speaker 2: it's just because here's the thing we talk about a

1853
01:24:13,479 --> 01:24:15,439
Speaker 2: lot this week about we just want to compute that works.

1854
01:24:16,000 --> 01:24:18,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, that isn't going to grow the company guaranteed twenty

1855
01:24:18,439 --> 01:24:20,880
Speaker 1: percent year of a year, every single quarter. And it

1856
01:24:21,000 --> 01:24:23,439
Speaker 1: sucks because you should just be able to have a

1857
01:24:23,479 --> 01:24:26,040
Speaker 1: company that grows three percent every quarter. Yeah, the stock

1858
01:24:26,120 --> 01:24:28,719
Speaker 1: market should like that, but they don't. And as a result,

1859
01:24:28,960 --> 01:24:32,320
Speaker 1: when things consume, they must consume eternally to your point.

1860
01:24:32,520 --> 01:24:35,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean the best example of this recently is

1861
01:24:35,160 --> 01:24:39,880
Speaker 4: the instant pot, right, Oh yeah, everybody loves an instant pot.

1862
01:24:40,200 --> 01:24:42,120
Speaker 4: It's too good. It's so good.

1863
01:24:42,400 --> 01:24:44,880
Speaker 2: Nobody needed to buy a new instant pots instant part

1864
01:24:44,920 --> 01:24:46,479
Speaker 2: when I hat of business well books, they got balled

1865
01:24:46,479 --> 01:24:47,640
Speaker 2: by private equity.

1866
01:24:47,560 --> 01:24:50,679
Speaker 4: Too, but also they could they couldn't hit that mass

1867
01:24:50,720 --> 01:24:54,040
Speaker 4: growth because instant pot too good. It just works.

1868
01:24:54,200 --> 01:24:55,719
Speaker 2: A pressure cooker is a pressure cooker.

1869
01:24:55,960 --> 01:24:57,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, and they were one of the first digital ones.

1870
01:24:57,760 --> 01:24:59,479
Speaker 4: But it's still it works and it works.

1871
01:24:59,520 --> 01:24:59,720
Speaker 5: Well.

1872
01:25:00,000 --> 01:25:03,120
Speaker 4: Oh sorry, you couldn't grow fast enough, you're dead.

1873
01:25:03,720 --> 01:25:06,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it sucks because I don't know that I

1874
01:25:06,960 --> 01:25:08,920
Speaker 2: have this somewhat. I don't know. Maybe this is not

1875
01:25:09,040 --> 01:25:09,400
Speaker 2: Night List.

1876
01:25:09,439 --> 01:25:11,840
Speaker 3: Would they have died if private equity hadn't bought them?

1877
01:25:12,000 --> 01:25:13,120
Speaker 4: No, probably not.

1878
01:25:13,439 --> 01:25:15,800
Speaker 2: They were private, Yeah, they were. They were private.

1879
01:25:15,800 --> 01:25:16,880
Speaker 3: They can just keep chugging along it.

1880
01:25:16,960 --> 01:25:17,519
Speaker 2: They could keep it.

1881
01:25:18,000 --> 01:25:20,040
Speaker 1: If you're a private company, you don't have shareholp. I

1882
01:25:20,040 --> 01:25:22,120
Speaker 1: guess you have investors beyond a shareholders saying you have

1883
01:25:22,200 --> 01:25:24,400
Speaker 1: to grow. You don't have fucking Jim Kramer up your asshole.

1884
01:25:25,320 --> 01:25:28,400
Speaker 1: And it's it's unfortunate, But I think that there is

1885
01:25:28,439 --> 01:25:29,960
Speaker 1: a level of this. I hones, stay, I'm glad you

1886
01:25:30,000 --> 01:25:32,719
Speaker 1: brought this up. I think the thing that happens before

1887
01:25:32,760 --> 01:25:37,240
Speaker 1: the AI bubble is just the the ultimate slowdown, because

1888
01:25:37,920 --> 01:25:40,160
Speaker 1: what was it like the fact that like, it's kind

1889
01:25:40,200 --> 01:25:44,640
Speaker 1: of insane the Dell did such a big song and

1890
01:25:44,760 --> 01:25:48,639
Speaker 1: danced last year and then we're like, actually, JK, I'm kidding.

1891
01:25:49,760 --> 01:25:52,960
Speaker 4: That was a bit where it hurts. Yeah, they directly

1892
01:25:53,080 --> 01:25:55,719
Speaker 4: saw falling sales because and they could draw the line

1893
01:25:55,760 --> 01:25:58,120
Speaker 4: to the rebranding. Because of that, They're like, oh shit,

1894
01:25:58,360 --> 01:26:01,280
Speaker 4: what do we do? We got to refolk Is on consumers.

1895
01:26:00,920 --> 01:26:02,559
Speaker 2: Which is so bizarre.

1896
01:26:02,640 --> 01:26:05,560
Speaker 4: Though if only people loudly told them that this was

1897
01:26:05,560 --> 01:26:07,200
Speaker 4: a mistake from the beginning.

1898
01:26:06,880 --> 01:26:09,760
Speaker 2: If only there were articles at engadget dot com that

1899
01:26:09,880 --> 01:26:13,160
Speaker 2: they could have read in detail last year. But it's

1900
01:26:13,280 --> 01:26:17,560
Speaker 2: like that's that's really like, this is very bad, this

1901
01:26:17,800 --> 01:26:22,519
Speaker 2: ram crisis, this is bad. It's so I'm because it's

1902
01:26:22,560 --> 01:26:23,600
Speaker 2: so scary.

1903
01:26:24,040 --> 01:26:27,840
Speaker 7: What now then happens with because I think something that

1904
01:26:27,920 --> 01:26:29,920
Speaker 7: we've talked about also is I think, like you know,

1905
01:26:30,000 --> 01:26:31,760
Speaker 7: kind of like what you're saying off the top, the

1906
01:26:32,000 --> 01:26:36,880
Speaker 7: financial element of uh, the AI bubble is one that

1907
01:26:37,479 --> 01:26:39,880
Speaker 7: we can see it for what it is, but that

1908
01:26:39,960 --> 01:26:41,960
Speaker 7: there are multitude of ways in which they've been able

1909
01:26:42,040 --> 01:26:44,680
Speaker 7: to juggle, find some new frontier of.

1910
01:26:44,760 --> 01:26:46,840
Speaker 2: Growth, justify and more.

1911
01:26:47,360 --> 01:26:51,240
Speaker 7: These structural issues that we keep coming across feel non negotiable.

1912
01:26:51,280 --> 01:26:54,800
Speaker 7: So what effect do do you guys see them as

1913
01:26:55,760 --> 01:27:01,479
Speaker 7: being risk of some sort of breaking point? Yes, in

1914
01:27:01,600 --> 01:27:04,599
Speaker 7: terms of the AI infrastructure overbuild, in terms of adoption

1915
01:27:04,800 --> 01:27:09,160
Speaker 7: amongst consumers, I mean like like what like let's say,

1916
01:27:09,240 --> 01:27:15,480
Speaker 7: for let's say that nothing happens in terms of degradation

1917
01:27:15,600 --> 01:27:19,360
Speaker 7: of the financial conditions, Is the structural limitations that we're

1918
01:27:19,360 --> 01:27:22,719
Speaker 7: seeing there with the RAM sufficient to impose like a crisis.

1919
01:27:22,840 --> 01:27:24,960
Speaker 3: Yes, is basically what I'm you're saying. It's so much

1920
01:27:25,000 --> 01:27:27,000
Speaker 3: more eloquently than what I'm what I'm asking, But that's

1921
01:27:27,080 --> 01:27:27,800
Speaker 3: basically exactly what.

1922
01:27:27,840 --> 01:27:31,880
Speaker 2: I'm asking yourself. You were completely on the money.

1923
01:27:32,000 --> 01:27:34,599
Speaker 1: You were also at here's the thing, and I think

1924
01:27:34,680 --> 01:27:37,800
Speaker 1: Davindri you are thoughts in this as well. It's you

1925
01:27:38,200 --> 01:27:41,799
Speaker 1: you can get more of that money can be found elsewhere.

1926
01:27:41,960 --> 01:27:46,920
Speaker 1: Singaporean boys that the country's fund I remember the name

1927
01:27:47,000 --> 01:27:49,840
Speaker 1: for that they invested. They're going to invest in anthropic

1928
01:27:49,960 --> 01:27:52,240
Speaker 1: More money can be found. There's a limit but we're

1929
01:27:52,280 --> 01:27:55,439
Speaker 1: not at it. Yeah, they're on limits to power. And

1930
01:27:55,560 --> 01:27:59,040
Speaker 1: here's the thing, one point five fucking terrorbytes per. I'm

1931
01:27:59,080 --> 01:28:02,080
Speaker 1: going to guess V two hundred eight e eight GP

1932
01:28:02,320 --> 01:28:03,519
Speaker 1: whatever the tower, That's what.

1933
01:28:03,560 --> 01:28:04,240
Speaker 3: I was gonna guess.

1934
01:28:04,840 --> 01:28:08,160
Speaker 1: Of course, you're constantly like the GB three hundreds four

1935
01:28:08,200 --> 01:28:10,080
Speaker 1: point five million dollars at how the hell did the

1936
01:28:10,200 --> 01:28:11,040
Speaker 1: economics work?

1937
01:28:11,200 --> 01:28:13,880
Speaker 2: What do you mean data an ri t ed, I

1938
01:28:13,920 --> 01:28:16,479
Speaker 2: don't get this. People are saying that the cost of

1939
01:28:16,600 --> 01:28:21,120
Speaker 2: inference is going down, it's going up. Let's talk about

1940
01:28:21,200 --> 01:28:22,000
Speaker 2: high bam ri RAM.

1941
01:28:22,080 --> 01:28:25,760
Speaker 1: You're constantly in my text with yeah, you just won't

1942
01:28:25,800 --> 01:28:27,120
Speaker 1: stop talking about models.

1943
01:28:27,200 --> 01:28:29,880
Speaker 2: No, but it's just real simple.

1944
01:28:30,160 --> 01:28:30,920
Speaker 3: And videos are.

1945
01:28:30,920 --> 01:28:33,680
Speaker 2: Saying we're gonna build the biggest, fucking hugest tower ever

1946
01:28:34,160 --> 01:28:35,920
Speaker 2: and by the way, it's full of more RAM than ever.

1947
01:28:36,360 --> 01:28:40,439
Speaker 2: They haven't announced the price of then you big enterprise GPUs.

1948
01:28:41,240 --> 01:28:45,559
Speaker 2: I think they're going to be catastrophically more expensive because

1949
01:28:45,600 --> 01:28:49,280
Speaker 2: they have more RAM than ever. It's like everything, including

1950
01:28:49,360 --> 01:28:53,120
Speaker 2: the thing that needs debt, the borrowed money to keep going,

1951
01:28:53,600 --> 01:28:56,599
Speaker 2: is going to get more expensive. Consumer devices are getting

1952
01:28:56,840 --> 01:28:59,880
Speaker 2: get more expensive. To your point, ed, it's like, yeah,

1953
01:29:00,000 --> 01:29:01,400
Speaker 2: they've been able to get away with it because you

1954
01:29:01,439 --> 01:29:03,639
Speaker 2: can find more venture capital. Man, you can find more day,

1955
01:29:03,640 --> 01:29:06,120
Speaker 2: you can find more assholes to loan your money. You

1956
01:29:06,240 --> 01:29:09,880
Speaker 2: can't find more ram. You can't find more power is

1957
01:29:09,920 --> 01:29:12,439
Speaker 2: not something you don't just like plug into the fucking wall.

1958
01:29:12,880 --> 01:29:17,840
Speaker 2: There are literal limits. And it's like we're now, we're

1959
01:29:17,880 --> 01:29:20,240
Speaker 2: now seeing the after that. I can't get over the

1960
01:29:20,280 --> 01:29:23,160
Speaker 2: fact they raised the laptops place five hundred bucks. That's

1961
01:29:23,240 --> 01:29:29,400
Speaker 2: fucking that makes it unaffordable for most people. That's that

1962
01:29:29,600 --> 01:29:33,879
Speaker 2: is a huge and this is this stops people upgrading

1963
01:29:33,920 --> 01:29:37,080
Speaker 2: and upgrade cycles of what make these companies live and

1964
01:29:37,320 --> 01:29:40,680
Speaker 2: die at a time when there's less real you can

1965
01:29:40,720 --> 01:29:43,560
Speaker 2: get a laptop from you even I could get like

1966
01:29:43,640 --> 01:29:46,920
Speaker 2: an M three MacBook Air and be pretty fucking happy.

1967
01:29:47,120 --> 01:29:49,800
Speaker 2: I'm using a three year old MacBook Pro and it

1968
01:29:49,920 --> 01:29:52,799
Speaker 2: fucking bangs. Is that ship that shits? That shit's flying?

1969
01:29:53,120 --> 01:29:53,880
Speaker 4: Computer that work?

1970
01:29:54,320 --> 01:29:58,160
Speaker 2: But the thing is why would I upgrade? And that's

1971
01:29:58,200 --> 01:30:00,760
Speaker 2: actually like that sounds like a kids see things that

1972
01:30:01,000 --> 01:30:04,800
Speaker 2: that's actually a huge question because I'm like a tech pig,

1973
01:30:05,000 --> 01:30:07,280
Speaker 2: like I'm a hog. I love my laptops and my goot,

1974
01:30:07,479 --> 01:30:09,400
Speaker 2: my dud dad's and my gizmos and shit, and I'm like,

1975
01:30:09,920 --> 01:30:11,760
Speaker 2: I don't fucking need a new laptop. Why would any

1976
01:30:11,760 --> 01:30:12,320
Speaker 2: of that is going on?

1977
01:30:12,920 --> 01:30:15,439
Speaker 4: That is a good problem Like that is usually it's

1978
01:30:15,479 --> 01:30:17,960
Speaker 4: good for consumers. It's good for consumers, it's a good

1979
01:30:18,200 --> 01:30:21,560
Speaker 4: it's you made a good product that lasts. Unfortunately, that

1980
01:30:21,800 --> 01:30:24,240
Speaker 4: is bad for your overall revenues. But that's good that

1981
01:30:24,439 --> 01:30:27,000
Speaker 4: you you were capable of doing that. I wish more

1982
01:30:27,040 --> 01:30:29,639
Speaker 4: companies were capable of doing that, Honestly. I'm also thinking

1983
01:30:29,680 --> 01:30:33,080
Speaker 4: about like where we are the climate crisis isn't isn't

1984
01:30:33,160 --> 01:30:33,800
Speaker 4: slowing down?

1985
01:30:34,120 --> 01:30:34,240
Speaker 2: Right?

1986
01:30:34,320 --> 01:30:37,040
Speaker 4: Like, we're all these companies that for so long we're

1987
01:30:37,040 --> 01:30:39,040
Speaker 4: talking about, Oh, where we have all these climate gold

1988
01:30:39,080 --> 01:30:41,240
Speaker 4: we're going to reduce energy, we're going to be more conservative.

1989
01:30:41,840 --> 01:30:45,920
Speaker 4: Once AI shit started happening, they shut up because all

1990
01:30:46,040 --> 01:30:48,719
Speaker 4: their all their stuff blew away. That didn't matter anymore

1991
01:30:48,840 --> 01:30:51,599
Speaker 4: because it was all AI all the time. And yeah,

1992
01:30:51,680 --> 01:30:53,600
Speaker 4: what what? The world right now is going to be

1993
01:30:53,680 --> 01:30:56,040
Speaker 4: more expensive when it comes to gadgets. The world in

1994
01:30:56,120 --> 01:30:57,680
Speaker 4: the future is going to be hard to live in

1995
01:30:58,080 --> 01:31:00,280
Speaker 4: because of all the stupid decisions happening right now. And

1996
01:31:00,400 --> 01:31:02,080
Speaker 4: I'm so angry about all of it.

1997
01:31:02,479 --> 01:31:04,840
Speaker 1: And we are now going to transition to our final

1998
01:31:04,960 --> 01:31:07,960
Speaker 1: thirty minutes of this episode. This next one is brought

1999
01:31:08,280 --> 01:31:11,720
Speaker 1: to you by gen Z dot Bears. Now you it's

2000
01:31:11,840 --> 01:31:14,240
Speaker 1: just a store where you can just buy zin to

2001
01:31:14,400 --> 01:31:16,400
Speaker 1: your door. I don't actually know what zin is.

2002
01:31:16,520 --> 01:31:20,040
Speaker 2: Please, if you're if you're one of my three Zoomer listeners,

2003
01:31:20,240 --> 01:31:23,200
Speaker 2: please email me what zinc is and how you consume it,

2004
01:31:23,760 --> 01:31:25,720
Speaker 2: and can you tell me what's cool as well? I

2005
01:31:25,760 --> 01:31:41,040
Speaker 2: haven't known what that was for ten years. And we're

2006
01:31:41,080 --> 01:31:42,280
Speaker 2: back in the room. We're back in the room.

2007
01:31:42,280 --> 01:31:45,080
Speaker 1: We've got the Vendra Hardawa from En Gadgets. We've got

2008
01:31:45,280 --> 01:31:48,680
Speaker 1: Edwin and Guiso Junior of tech Bubble newsletter have. We've

2009
01:31:48,680 --> 01:31:53,040
Speaker 1: got Chloe Radcliffe, actress star of is this thing on?

2010
01:31:53,360 --> 01:31:55,760
Speaker 1: I got targeted on an Instagram star is.

2011
01:31:57,840 --> 01:31:59,719
Speaker 2: What's great? Was? The clip I got was like Cradley

2012
01:31:59,760 --> 01:32:03,160
Speaker 2: boot being talked to. H Sorry, I'm we'll learn it.

2013
01:32:03,280 --> 01:32:03,680
Speaker 2: We'll learn it.

2014
01:32:03,840 --> 01:32:06,400
Speaker 1: Thank you, christ and going look you I'm and stand

2015
01:32:06,479 --> 01:32:09,719
Speaker 1: up and Cradlely Booper going what anyway?

2016
01:32:09,840 --> 01:32:10,200
Speaker 3: Stand up?

2017
01:32:10,240 --> 01:32:15,040
Speaker 2: Comedian Chloe Radcliffe and yeah, we're back talking about ram

2018
01:32:15,600 --> 01:32:18,760
Speaker 2: and the slowdown. And I'm gonna be honest, I know

2019
01:32:18,840 --> 01:32:22,040
Speaker 2: it seems bad now and it will be bad. The

2020
01:32:22,160 --> 01:32:24,760
Speaker 2: take industry needs this. The take industry needs to be

2021
01:32:24,880 --> 01:32:28,320
Speaker 2: punished for the growth lust because there is no there's

2022
01:32:28,400 --> 01:32:31,880
Speaker 2: no sustainable future doing this and this was also inevitable

2023
01:32:32,960 --> 01:32:34,160
Speaker 2: and I think it's scary.

2024
01:32:34,439 --> 01:32:36,800
Speaker 7: So they're just I mean, so then is the you know,

2025
01:32:36,960 --> 01:32:41,040
Speaker 7: if we if ideally what it delays on the products

2026
01:32:41,080 --> 01:32:45,000
Speaker 7: that are the most RAM intensive to give infrastructure a

2027
01:32:45,120 --> 01:32:49,919
Speaker 7: chance to fill a backlog and to give the next generation.

2028
01:32:50,320 --> 01:32:53,120
Speaker 4: There are rumors that they may revive old hardware. There's

2029
01:32:53,120 --> 01:32:56,120
Speaker 4: a rumor that in videos, RTX thirty sixty, which is

2030
01:32:56,160 --> 01:32:58,800
Speaker 4: a two three year old GPU, maybe back in market

2031
01:32:58,880 --> 01:33:01,320
Speaker 4: soon because it's using all older slower RAM too, so

2032
01:33:01,400 --> 01:33:03,960
Speaker 4: it's not using the newest, fastest stuff but less powerful

2033
01:33:04,000 --> 01:33:06,479
Speaker 4: GP yeah, way less powerful. But it's also like like

2034
01:33:06,560 --> 01:33:08,840
Speaker 4: two generations back. It is a sign that you have

2035
01:33:08,920 --> 01:33:12,640
Speaker 4: to bring back the past because the present is unaffordable

2036
01:33:12,800 --> 01:33:15,840
Speaker 4: and you cannot make it. So, I don't know, that's

2037
01:33:15,960 --> 01:33:16,840
Speaker 4: never happened before.

2038
01:33:17,000 --> 01:33:18,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, I so we're never heard of that.

2039
01:33:19,000 --> 01:33:20,400
Speaker 4: We don't know if this is true, but this is

2040
01:33:20,439 --> 01:33:22,200
Speaker 4: the really I thought that was confirmed.

2041
01:33:24,960 --> 01:33:29,640
Speaker 3: So I okay, as my responsibility as my person I

2042
01:33:30,479 --> 01:33:35,320
Speaker 3: then think about how do normal people experience this, because

2043
01:33:35,439 --> 01:33:40,160
Speaker 3: normal people have heard AI a million times. We've heard

2044
01:33:40,280 --> 01:33:43,920
Speaker 3: ram is getting more expensive. But like I think I'm smart,

2045
01:33:44,280 --> 01:33:46,559
Speaker 3: and I didn't know any of this ship. I've heard

2046
01:33:46,600 --> 01:33:48,920
Speaker 3: these words, but I don't know the details. And so

2047
01:33:49,240 --> 01:33:53,839
Speaker 3: as a as a representative of normal people, as stuff

2048
01:33:53,920 --> 01:33:58,000
Speaker 3: gets more and more and more expensive, so far, the

2049
01:33:58,600 --> 01:34:04,679
Speaker 3: American population has just borne the load of more expensive life.

2050
01:34:05,960 --> 01:34:08,320
Speaker 3: People have. People complain about it. It's very frustrating. It

2051
01:34:08,479 --> 01:34:11,760
Speaker 3: negatively impacts people's physical health and they're to enjoy life.

2052
01:34:11,880 --> 01:34:16,160
Speaker 3: But like pretty much everybody has just sort of God.

2053
01:34:16,080 --> 01:34:18,320
Speaker 4: The people who can afford it eat the cost, but

2054
01:34:18,520 --> 01:34:20,160
Speaker 4: then we don't hear about the people who.

2055
01:34:20,120 --> 01:34:22,719
Speaker 2: But there's there's also a limit finish oppression.

2056
01:34:23,080 --> 01:34:25,920
Speaker 3: Yes, but I think the people who can't afford it

2057
01:34:26,080 --> 01:34:27,320
Speaker 3: eat the cost too, I mean.

2058
01:34:27,280 --> 01:34:29,000
Speaker 4: Like in other ways. But here's the thing.

2059
01:34:29,120 --> 01:34:30,040
Speaker 2: Really, here's the thing.

2060
01:34:31,560 --> 01:34:35,519
Speaker 1: You're saying that for now there is a limit, And

2061
01:34:35,680 --> 01:34:39,000
Speaker 1: what it is is people are eating the cost inasmuch

2062
01:34:39,040 --> 01:34:42,080
Speaker 1: as they can. At some point, there's a limit because

2063
01:34:43,160 --> 01:34:46,160
Speaker 1: there are people who weigh like Apple's apop Max. I

2064
01:34:46,200 --> 01:34:48,439
Speaker 1: don't really think that that's like a regular person thing

2065
01:34:48,560 --> 01:34:50,400
Speaker 1: is like five hundred bucks, but those half ram in them.

2066
01:34:50,520 --> 01:34:53,240
Speaker 1: Modern headphones half ram inem Like, there are headphones that

2067
01:34:53,280 --> 01:34:56,080
Speaker 1: have RAM in them. Even cheap laptops have ram in them.

2068
01:34:56,360 --> 01:35:00,320
Speaker 1: Everything has ram in it. So yes, the cost of

2069
01:35:00,360 --> 01:35:02,280
Speaker 1: everything already went up and never came down.

2070
01:35:02,600 --> 01:35:05,559
Speaker 2: There is a point when people would just stop buying

2071
01:35:05,640 --> 01:35:07,200
Speaker 2: new electronics at all.

2072
01:35:07,479 --> 01:35:10,280
Speaker 3: And I have a thesis. Okay, so there's a point

2073
01:35:10,280 --> 01:35:12,160
Speaker 3: where people will stop by new electronics at all, and

2074
01:35:12,240 --> 01:35:15,519
Speaker 3: then there is some further point at which people will

2075
01:35:16,280 --> 01:35:20,799
Speaker 3: draw a line at inflationary prices overall, whether it's an electronic,

2076
01:35:20,880 --> 01:35:24,520
Speaker 3: whether it's in whatever. Because I'm sure that RAM shortages

2077
01:35:24,560 --> 01:35:27,000
Speaker 3: are going to affect things that don't have RAM in it,

2078
01:35:27,120 --> 01:35:29,479
Speaker 3: because the things that are used to ship those things

2079
01:35:29,560 --> 01:35:30,120
Speaker 3: have RAM in it.

2080
01:35:30,200 --> 01:35:30,360
Speaker 5: You know.

2081
01:35:30,439 --> 01:35:33,479
Speaker 3: It's like I right, I can imagine that this impacts

2082
01:35:33,479 --> 01:35:37,240
Speaker 3: price overall. And what we have seen in trend lines

2083
01:35:37,360 --> 01:35:39,240
Speaker 3: is that once prices go up, they stay up, they

2084
01:35:39,240 --> 01:35:40,840
Speaker 3: don't come back down for the most part.

2085
01:35:41,600 --> 01:35:44,559
Speaker 1: So yeah, that might actually not happen with RAM, I think,

2086
01:35:44,600 --> 01:35:48,240
Speaker 1: because if they My real crazy scenario and no one

2087
01:35:48,280 --> 01:35:51,200
Speaker 1: wants to think about, is AMD and video buying all

2088
01:35:51,240 --> 01:35:53,040
Speaker 1: this RAM what funck. They deal with it when no

2089
01:35:53,080 --> 01:35:55,599
Speaker 1: one wants to buy their bullshit anymore, All of these

2090
01:35:55,640 --> 01:35:59,160
Speaker 1: companies that have built massive allocations RAM won't have any usage.

2091
01:35:59,200 --> 01:36:03,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, but other like consumer goods, I think once those

2092
01:36:03,080 --> 01:36:03,760
Speaker 3: prices go up.

2093
01:36:03,720 --> 01:36:05,320
Speaker 1: There this thing is if no one's buying them, they

2094
01:36:05,360 --> 01:36:07,679
Speaker 1: will have to because what we're talking about here isn't

2095
01:36:07,800 --> 01:36:10,360
Speaker 1: just like the top crust, it's everything.

2096
01:36:10,439 --> 01:36:12,880
Speaker 3: But so far people are still buying them. As we

2097
01:36:13,120 --> 01:36:15,880
Speaker 3: often people are tightening belts. But I think a lot

2098
01:36:15,960 --> 01:36:20,200
Speaker 3: of people are just spending way more money than they

2099
01:36:20,320 --> 01:36:25,320
Speaker 3: would have been and not saving and like because because.

2100
01:36:25,120 --> 01:36:28,599
Speaker 4: You're living paycheck to paycheck with no safety net, right,

2101
01:36:28,760 --> 01:36:29,880
Speaker 4: But I.

2102
01:36:29,960 --> 01:36:33,879
Speaker 3: Think a lot of people are paying the higher prices

2103
01:36:34,240 --> 01:36:36,360
Speaker 3: rather than not buying the items there.

2104
01:36:36,280 --> 01:36:39,280
Speaker 4: Are, Yeah to a certain agree like sometimes you need it,

2105
01:36:39,360 --> 01:36:41,800
Speaker 4: sometimes you need it. I do think we get to

2106
01:36:41,960 --> 01:36:44,400
Speaker 4: look at this culturally too, because people don't just sit

2107
01:36:44,479 --> 01:36:47,160
Speaker 4: down and read business news and make logical business decisions

2108
01:36:47,200 --> 01:36:50,040
Speaker 4: as economists think. We do think we respond to culture.

2109
01:36:50,120 --> 01:36:52,680
Speaker 4: We respond to like that's how things are reacting. And

2110
01:36:52,760 --> 01:36:56,000
Speaker 4: I think it is interesting that the youngs, the gen

2111
01:36:56,120 --> 01:37:00,519
Speaker 4: zs and all are looking back to pre smart phone culture,

2112
01:37:00,560 --> 01:37:03,519
Speaker 4: pre social media and how prevalent is this. I mean,

2113
01:37:03,640 --> 01:37:07,160
Speaker 4: it's just like they grew up watching reruns of the Office, right,

2114
01:37:07,320 --> 01:37:09,040
Speaker 4: And then there's a lot of things about this they're

2115
01:37:09,120 --> 01:37:12,120
Speaker 4: theorizing is that this is a world they probably will

2116
01:37:12,200 --> 01:37:16,040
Speaker 4: never actually see, just like having a simple office job.

2117
01:37:16,120 --> 01:37:18,559
Speaker 4: That's like that. And there's a lot of like looking

2118
01:37:18,640 --> 01:37:21,640
Speaker 4: back towards retro stuff. I think culturally we will. We

2119
01:37:21,800 --> 01:37:23,880
Speaker 4: may regress a little. It's like going back to the

2120
01:37:23,960 --> 01:37:26,360
Speaker 4: old video cars, but like you regress back to Okay,

2121
01:37:27,560 --> 01:37:29,519
Speaker 4: we gave too much of our lives to social media.

2122
01:37:29,560 --> 01:37:30,680
Speaker 4: We will just take a step back back.

2123
01:37:30,800 --> 01:37:33,519
Speaker 3: Okay. So this is I was thinking about this on

2124
01:37:33,560 --> 01:37:35,479
Speaker 3: the plane to cees as I was like sort of

2125
01:37:35,560 --> 01:37:37,800
Speaker 3: collating some of my thoughts about tech and AI and stuff.

2126
01:37:38,160 --> 01:37:41,920
Speaker 3: And I actually think I lay much more of the

2127
01:37:42,040 --> 01:37:46,559
Speaker 3: sin at the feet of the constant entertainment feed, oh

2128
01:37:46,960 --> 01:37:50,760
Speaker 3: than I do at the feed of AI. I think

2129
01:37:50,920 --> 01:37:55,400
Speaker 3: that social media and the constant input of entertainment has

2130
01:37:55,640 --> 01:38:01,240
Speaker 3: numbed us and has has uh reduced us people's interest

2131
01:38:01,520 --> 01:38:08,639
Speaker 3: in making statements or engaging with societal ills. Yeah, by

2132
01:38:10,120 --> 01:38:13,439
Speaker 3: you know, orders of magnitude. And so I actually, to me,

2133
01:38:13,560 --> 01:38:16,640
Speaker 3: I'm sort of like, yeah, AI is whatever bullshit it is,

2134
01:38:17,000 --> 01:38:19,400
Speaker 3: But I actually think that the core of the social

2135
01:38:19,479 --> 01:38:22,840
Speaker 3: ills is the constant drip feed of entertainment that just

2136
01:38:22,960 --> 01:38:24,800
Speaker 3: turns your brain, that just dulls you to.

2137
01:38:24,880 --> 01:38:26,600
Speaker 4: And a lot of people are trying to take a

2138
01:38:26,680 --> 01:38:29,080
Speaker 4: step back from this information over load, and I think

2139
01:38:29,560 --> 01:38:30,840
Speaker 4: we will probably see more.

2140
01:38:31,280 --> 01:38:32,880
Speaker 3: I think we will see more of that. But so

2141
01:38:33,040 --> 01:38:35,240
Speaker 3: my thesis winds up being that I think the breaking

2142
01:38:35,400 --> 01:38:40,280
Speaker 3: point for people, for people living in this inflationary environment,

2143
01:38:40,920 --> 01:38:44,719
Speaker 3: I think that breaking point will be a lot higher

2144
01:38:45,360 --> 01:38:47,479
Speaker 3: than it would be without social media. I think the

2145
01:38:47,560 --> 01:38:50,479
Speaker 3: breaking point will take a lot longer than it would

2146
01:38:50,520 --> 01:38:54,080
Speaker 3: be without. It feels bad, but you can just pick

2147
01:38:54,160 --> 01:38:56,880
Speaker 3: something up and scroll through things that make your brain

2148
01:38:56,960 --> 01:38:57,639
Speaker 3: go big.

2149
01:38:57,840 --> 01:38:59,320
Speaker 2: So I agree.

2150
01:39:00,280 --> 01:39:03,960
Speaker 1: My thing is is they forced AI into every social

2151
01:39:04,080 --> 01:39:06,920
Speaker 1: networking app too. AI is everywhere, It's in your ear.

2152
01:39:07,080 --> 01:39:09,080
Speaker 1: I realize I'm doing my same bit I always do.

2153
01:39:09,280 --> 01:39:12,880
Speaker 1: But it's like when that disappears, gets weird, it kind

2154
01:39:12,920 --> 01:39:15,720
Speaker 1: of comes obvious it was bullshit that will filter into

2155
01:39:15,720 --> 01:39:17,960
Speaker 1: the feature kind of already seeing it, You're seeing you're

2156
01:39:17,960 --> 01:39:19,679
Speaker 1: seeing random people being anti AI.

2157
01:39:19,880 --> 01:39:21,559
Speaker 2: Now people I never.

2158
01:39:21,479 --> 01:39:24,559
Speaker 1: Talked about it, but two separate things, but it creates

2159
01:39:24,640 --> 01:39:26,960
Speaker 1: the kind of chaos that makes people be like, wait,

2160
01:39:27,080 --> 01:39:28,920
Speaker 1: why do I need new fucking up to want? Just

2161
01:39:28,960 --> 01:39:31,479
Speaker 1: go on e Bay and buy an hpoman from four

2162
01:39:31,560 --> 01:39:35,400
Speaker 1: years ago? I just buy an iPhone sixteen instead when

2163
01:39:35,439 --> 01:39:38,560
Speaker 1: I have or like what you have is fine, Like

2164
01:39:38,680 --> 01:39:41,880
Speaker 1: this iPad is over a year old and I will

2165
01:39:41,880 --> 01:39:43,800
Speaker 1: probably use it for another three years or more.

2166
01:39:44,200 --> 01:39:45,760
Speaker 2: I don't know what they could possibly do.

2167
01:39:45,920 --> 01:39:49,120
Speaker 4: iPad pro, by the way, a stunning example of a product.

2168
01:39:49,800 --> 01:39:52,720
Speaker 4: Apple spent years being like why does this exist? A

2169
01:39:52,960 --> 01:39:55,960
Speaker 4: super powerful iPad? Who will spend the money of a

2170
01:39:56,080 --> 01:39:59,640
Speaker 4: laptop to just get an iPad? And they spent so

2171
01:39:59,760 --> 01:40:01,720
Speaker 4: long figure out not what to do, like they had

2172
01:40:01,760 --> 01:40:04,160
Speaker 4: no idea what to do with anything. That's endemic of

2173
01:40:04,280 --> 01:40:06,639
Speaker 4: like another issue like them trying to push into bigger

2174
01:40:06,680 --> 01:40:09,800
Speaker 4: categories and more expensive products. But it's all kind of

2175
01:40:09,840 --> 01:40:11,800
Speaker 4: part of the same thing, like you got to push more,

2176
01:40:12,040 --> 01:40:16,120
Speaker 4: you need more the information overload. We were not We

2177
01:40:16,200 --> 01:40:18,840
Speaker 4: didn't evolve to processes must have much information. So I

2178
01:40:18,880 --> 01:40:21,599
Speaker 4: think that has had a cultural impact on our brains.

2179
01:40:21,920 --> 01:40:26,280
Speaker 4: COVID has like rewired people completely. You would think it

2180
01:40:26,320 --> 01:40:30,240
Speaker 4: would push us to be more, you know, more supportive.

2181
01:40:30,360 --> 01:40:32,840
Speaker 4: Most of their socialisport like try to come together, and

2182
01:40:32,920 --> 01:40:34,760
Speaker 4: it just broke our brains in other ways. So it's

2183
01:40:34,840 --> 01:40:35,880
Speaker 4: just like, I don't know.

2184
01:40:36,920 --> 01:40:39,280
Speaker 3: But I think that the reason it broke people's brains

2185
01:40:39,800 --> 01:40:44,400
Speaker 3: was facilitated by the entertainment feed. And I want to

2186
01:40:44,439 --> 01:40:47,479
Speaker 3: differentiate that from a social media platform where you can

2187
01:40:47,600 --> 01:40:49,559
Speaker 3: go and you know, talk to your friends and family.

2188
01:40:50,200 --> 01:40:52,519
Speaker 4: Truly, to me, it is they all kind of ended

2189
01:40:52,640 --> 01:40:53,599
Speaker 4: up becoming entertainment.

2190
01:40:53,720 --> 01:40:57,040
Speaker 3: This is but it's why I'm specifically different why I

2191
01:40:57,120 --> 01:41:01,559
Speaker 3: am using the words entertainment because I think that how

2192
01:41:01,600 --> 01:41:07,880
Speaker 3: would you define that a constant flow of entertainment that

2193
01:41:08,080 --> 01:41:11,679
Speaker 3: is instantly and always excessed.

2194
01:41:11,720 --> 01:41:14,320
Speaker 2: And this is this video or this text involved in this?

2195
01:41:14,479 --> 01:41:15,040
Speaker 2: Or is this only?

2196
01:41:15,280 --> 01:41:18,000
Speaker 3: I think video is so much more poisonous than I

2197
01:41:18,240 --> 01:41:21,639
Speaker 3: ate text. But I will say I think text is uh.

2198
01:41:22,520 --> 01:41:24,280
Speaker 3: I think text does a very similar thing.

2199
01:41:24,360 --> 01:41:26,800
Speaker 1: No, but video is much easier to cycle through and

2200
01:41:27,040 --> 01:41:28,759
Speaker 1: consume a bunch of information.

2201
01:41:28,880 --> 01:41:31,040
Speaker 3: Fust It's not even it's not even just the cycle through.

2202
01:41:31,520 --> 01:41:34,360
Speaker 3: It's that like I open Instagram. I opened Instagram this

2203
01:41:34,439 --> 01:41:36,680
Speaker 3: morning to do a work thing, to like find a

2204
01:41:36,720 --> 01:41:39,479
Speaker 3: specific producer and look at who she follows and be like,

2205
01:41:39,600 --> 01:41:41,439
Speaker 3: do I know anybody who? She like it's like a

2206
01:41:41,720 --> 01:41:45,200
Speaker 3: it's a networking, it's a useful tool. And I opened

2207
01:41:45,240 --> 01:41:49,080
Speaker 3: it and it's some two hours later, truly, truly true.

2208
01:41:49,360 --> 01:41:52,599
Speaker 3: And it's because like I see in the little carousel,

2209
01:41:52,760 --> 01:41:55,960
Speaker 3: I see this little fifteen second like a girl being like,

2210
01:41:56,320 --> 01:41:59,120
Speaker 3: here's what my boyfriend expected on New Year's and then

2211
01:41:59,160 --> 01:42:00,360
Speaker 3: here's what he actually we got.

2212
01:42:00,360 --> 01:42:03,120
Speaker 2: And it's like a very funny going around and like looking.

2213
01:42:03,200 --> 01:42:06,880
Speaker 3: But my brain, my brain is like I see, I

2214
01:42:07,000 --> 01:42:07,639
Speaker 3: see things.

2215
01:42:07,520 --> 01:42:10,360
Speaker 2: Move, and that makes me like, I like, I'm so

2216
01:42:10,520 --> 01:42:13,280
Speaker 2: fucking glad. I'm autistic. I'm so fucking glad.

2217
01:42:13,479 --> 01:42:13,920
Speaker 3: I see that.

2218
01:42:13,960 --> 01:42:15,519
Speaker 2: I'm like, I got something else to do. I'm doing,

2219
01:42:15,600 --> 01:42:17,719
Speaker 2: I'm doing what I just it's so cool.

2220
01:42:17,960 --> 01:42:18,760
Speaker 3: I don't I see that.

2221
01:42:18,840 --> 01:42:20,840
Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, trying to fuck this happened to me.

2222
01:42:21,000 --> 01:42:23,439
Speaker 2: I'm a like I'm a pig, but I'm not that

2223
01:42:23,600 --> 01:42:24,080
Speaker 2: kind of hog.

2224
01:42:24,200 --> 01:42:24,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, yea, yeah.

2225
01:42:24,920 --> 01:42:27,000
Speaker 4: Last night I was like I had hours free for

2226
01:42:27,120 --> 01:42:28,599
Speaker 4: for once, and see I was like I could watch

2227
01:42:28,600 --> 01:42:30,720
Speaker 4: a movie, I could do all this stuff. Sat down,

2228
01:42:30,800 --> 01:42:32,280
Speaker 4: started looking at TikTok and was like, you know what,

2229
01:42:32,479 --> 01:42:34,680
Speaker 4: this is comfy. This is nice. And also because my

2230
01:42:34,800 --> 01:42:37,080
Speaker 4: brain has been at like two hundred percent the entire

2231
01:42:37,400 --> 01:42:38,960
Speaker 4: so it just needs to like cool down.

2232
01:42:39,439 --> 01:42:42,120
Speaker 3: But it is such a crew with the like with

2233
01:42:42,280 --> 01:42:45,960
Speaker 3: like the brain. Then I'm gonna put on a movie

2234
01:42:46,080 --> 01:42:47,640
Speaker 3: and cool down in front of the movie, which is

2235
01:42:47,720 --> 01:42:48,720
Speaker 3: one bigger Yeah.

2236
01:42:49,520 --> 01:42:52,920
Speaker 2: And I think the the pressure is just increasing on

2237
01:42:53,120 --> 01:42:56,679
Speaker 2: people and will eventually pop. And I think the pressure

2238
01:42:56,760 --> 01:42:58,160
Speaker 2: is increasing from all sides.

2239
01:42:58,640 --> 01:43:00,719
Speaker 3: I just think it's going to take a lot longer

2240
01:43:01,560 --> 01:43:04,320
Speaker 3: now than it would have with the technology we have.

2241
01:43:04,840 --> 01:43:05,519
Speaker 2: I will say that.

2242
01:43:07,160 --> 01:43:10,200
Speaker 1: The problem is the first of all, the real world

2243
01:43:10,320 --> 01:43:12,760
Speaker 1: was never meant to connect with finance this much. Most

2244
01:43:12,840 --> 01:43:15,439
Speaker 1: people were never meant to know what hb RAM was.

2245
01:43:15,840 --> 01:43:17,680
Speaker 1: No one was meant to know what a GPU was.

2246
01:43:18,200 --> 01:43:20,519
Speaker 1: Seven years ago. If you told you are somewhat to

2247
01:43:20,600 --> 01:43:23,680
Speaker 1: GPU was, they would call the police, like they'd be like,

2248
01:43:23,720 --> 01:43:25,640
Speaker 1: why are you saying strange words to me? You're a

2249
01:43:25,760 --> 01:43:30,960
Speaker 1: witch and no offense to witches. But it's just now

2250
01:43:31,040 --> 01:43:33,200
Speaker 1: everyone's kind of aware of this and it's in their

2251
01:43:33,280 --> 01:43:35,720
Speaker 1: head and every Barston company is saying, AI, you must

2252
01:43:35,760 --> 01:43:37,960
Speaker 1: do a I know will. You are stupid, You are

2253
01:43:38,000 --> 01:43:40,640
Speaker 1: a pig and a moron. Banana no No, there's a

2254
01:43:40,640 --> 01:43:42,120
Speaker 1: great video of a comedian I don't remember.

2255
01:43:42,120 --> 01:43:44,920
Speaker 2: It's just try banana now now, and it's just like,

2256
01:43:45,040 --> 01:43:46,640
Speaker 2: that's all I think of what this stuff is just

2257
01:43:46,720 --> 01:43:51,880
Speaker 2: harassing people. I think you're right in the It's going

2258
01:43:51,960 --> 01:43:53,679
Speaker 2: to take a little longer because people are so addicted

2259
01:43:53,680 --> 01:43:55,280
Speaker 2: to feeds, and the feeds are so intense it just

2260
01:43:55,360 --> 01:43:57,639
Speaker 2: numbs them. But I think that there is a degree

2261
01:43:57,680 --> 01:44:00,680
Speaker 2: of harassment from the AI stuff. That means that when

2262
01:44:00,800 --> 01:44:03,479
Speaker 2: this starts, the burst, it's going to be like fucking

2263
01:44:03,560 --> 01:44:05,960
Speaker 2: Chorus Sun and Return of the Jedi. I think people

2264
01:44:06,040 --> 01:44:08,439
Speaker 2: are going to be fucking excited to see this burn.

2265
01:44:08,600 --> 01:44:11,479
Speaker 2: I think people are just so fucking angry, and the

2266
01:44:11,720 --> 01:44:14,240
Speaker 2: fucking price of all electronics going up at a time

2267
01:44:14,320 --> 01:44:17,080
Speaker 2: when we're most the angriest we've ever been at the computer.

2268
01:44:17,760 --> 01:44:20,719
Speaker 2: I'm not saying I don't know the order of events,

2269
01:44:21,360 --> 01:44:22,519
Speaker 2: but I think this is I know this.

2270
01:44:23,200 --> 01:44:24,920
Speaker 4: The thing is, there's so much happening in the world,

2271
01:44:25,000 --> 01:44:28,080
Speaker 4: right Yeah, there's also the literal destruction of democracy right

2272
01:44:28,120 --> 01:44:30,280
Speaker 4: in front of us. Right there is war, we're being

2273
01:44:30,360 --> 01:44:33,880
Speaker 4: led by warmongers, and also the economy is collapsing. All

2274
01:44:33,920 --> 01:44:37,040
Speaker 4: this stuff is happening h I tend to look at

2275
01:44:37,040 --> 01:44:39,280
Speaker 4: like what what will be the broad societal ways, like

2276
01:44:39,360 --> 01:44:41,240
Speaker 4: we move through this and the only way is like

2277
01:44:41,479 --> 01:44:43,360
Speaker 4: we do have to like step away from the tech

2278
01:44:43,360 --> 01:44:46,320
Speaker 4: a little bit. Yeah, it's also like I don't know

2279
01:44:46,520 --> 01:44:48,800
Speaker 4: doing those social things that we didn't used to do,

2280
01:44:49,600 --> 01:44:54,160
Speaker 4: like we kind of stepped away from So I love libraries. Yeah, yeah,

2281
01:44:54,600 --> 01:44:58,200
Speaker 4: libraries are great libraries. Fucking we let the we let

2282
01:44:59,120 --> 01:45:01,519
Speaker 4: a lot of people really shit on libraries and could

2283
01:45:01,560 --> 01:45:04,400
Speaker 4: also strip away their resources and stuff. It is things

2284
01:45:04,479 --> 01:45:07,040
Speaker 4: like that where you see the rest of your community,

2285
01:45:07,200 --> 01:45:09,880
Speaker 4: you can help each other, you learn together. That's the

2286
01:45:09,920 --> 01:45:11,920
Speaker 4: sort of thing I want to support moving forward, and

2287
01:45:12,400 --> 01:45:13,160
Speaker 4: we need that.

2288
01:45:13,400 --> 01:45:15,960
Speaker 2: I will also say, like I said this yesterday on

2289
01:45:15,960 --> 01:45:18,400
Speaker 2: the episode, it's like I am a rare thing of

2290
01:45:18,520 --> 01:45:21,160
Speaker 2: like the internet has allowed me to become a person

2291
01:45:21,320 --> 01:45:22,040
Speaker 2: rather than maybe.

2292
01:45:21,920 --> 01:45:25,280
Speaker 4: Less just one. That's like I was a socially anxious kid, yeah,

2293
01:45:25,320 --> 01:45:27,200
Speaker 4: and technology and the internet did help me.

2294
01:45:27,560 --> 01:45:30,320
Speaker 1: Like so yeah, and the thing is you just I

2295
01:45:30,400 --> 01:45:32,640
Speaker 1: think there's just a level of intentionality where it's like

2296
01:45:33,880 --> 01:45:36,120
Speaker 1: the feeds don't work on me. I get deep anxiety

2297
01:45:36,160 --> 01:45:37,920
Speaker 1: when I have an infinite scroll, Like I have the

2298
01:45:38,000 --> 01:45:40,080
Speaker 1: opposite it has the opposite effect on me. I'm like,

2299
01:45:40,240 --> 01:45:43,160
Speaker 1: why won't this end? I can't watch anything everything. I

2300
01:45:43,200 --> 01:45:45,519
Speaker 1: don't want to look at it because it's it's worrying me.

2301
01:45:45,720 --> 01:45:48,920
Speaker 1: This is bothering, which is literally everyone else is different.

2302
01:45:49,080 --> 01:45:52,479
Speaker 1: It's so strange. But it's like, these tools also let

2303
01:45:52,560 --> 01:45:54,919
Speaker 1: me talk to everyone in this room in an instant.

2304
01:45:55,240 --> 01:45:58,000
Speaker 1: They let me put on an insane podcast for twenty

2305
01:45:58,080 --> 01:46:01,080
Speaker 1: hours in a week and nobody stopped me. But there

2306
01:46:01,080 --> 01:46:03,800
Speaker 1: are actual beautiful things that technology can do. And what's

2307
01:46:03,840 --> 01:46:06,760
Speaker 1: great is you could use the same technology from five

2308
01:46:06,840 --> 01:46:08,960
Speaker 1: fucking years ago. I'm not even saying put your phone

2309
01:46:08,960 --> 01:46:11,120
Speaker 1: down and burn it. I'm saying use what you've got now,

2310
01:46:11,280 --> 01:46:14,120
Speaker 1: or use what just happened. Computers, putting aside all the

2311
01:46:14,120 --> 01:46:16,840
Speaker 1: growth capitalism stuff, computers are fucking great right now.

2312
01:46:17,000 --> 01:46:19,639
Speaker 4: There's are great. People are going back to personal music players,

2313
01:46:19,880 --> 01:46:21,680
Speaker 4: just like a thing that plays music, you know what?

2314
01:46:21,840 --> 01:46:24,559
Speaker 4: That is beautiful. And the younger the kids right now,

2315
01:46:24,680 --> 01:46:26,840
Speaker 4: the thing people are saying is like they don't know

2316
01:46:26,840 --> 01:46:29,519
Speaker 4: if they're trusting an image that's a I that's an

2317
01:46:29,560 --> 01:46:33,080
Speaker 4: inherent distrust in AI and calling it out as a

2318
01:46:33,120 --> 01:46:35,680
Speaker 4: cultural object. I think that's fascinating too. So we are

2319
01:46:35,720 --> 01:46:37,360
Speaker 4: seeing the signs that there is going to be some

2320
01:46:37,520 --> 01:46:40,400
Speaker 4: sort of like pushback. Don't I don't want there to

2321
01:46:40,479 --> 01:46:43,320
Speaker 4: be like the Battle Starcalactica thing, right, or the dude the.

2322
01:46:45,880 --> 01:46:47,240
Speaker 3: Edge you get.

2323
01:46:48,840 --> 01:46:51,040
Speaker 2: It's just we're gonna get just a guy who just like.

2324
01:46:53,479 --> 01:46:53,640
Speaker 5: You know.

2325
01:46:53,880 --> 01:46:55,240
Speaker 3: No, it's like, we don't have to go all the way.

2326
01:46:55,479 --> 01:46:58,000
Speaker 1: It's the tweet where the guy's like, what's the highest

2327
01:46:58,080 --> 01:47:03,720
Speaker 1: number one million? It's but at the same time, my pushback. Sorry,

2328
01:47:03,840 --> 01:47:05,600
Speaker 1: this is not a pushback. I'm agreeing with everything, but

2329
01:47:05,680 --> 01:47:07,080
Speaker 1: it's the way through this.

2330
01:47:07,360 --> 01:47:09,719
Speaker 2: Is to just be a little bit more fucking intentional

2331
01:47:09,800 --> 01:47:10,000
Speaker 2: with it.

2332
01:47:10,360 --> 01:47:12,960
Speaker 1: I know it's don't look at this. You're gonna look

2333
01:47:12,960 --> 01:47:15,360
Speaker 1: at it. Don't hate yourself, but be aware that something's

2334
01:47:15,400 --> 01:47:17,960
Speaker 1: being done to you with it. And also remember you

2335
01:47:18,080 --> 01:47:20,439
Speaker 1: can call any of your friends using these things. You

2336
01:47:20,479 --> 01:47:22,400
Speaker 1: can talk to any of your friends if you're feeling

2337
01:47:22,479 --> 01:47:24,519
Speaker 1: lonely and said you signal.

2338
01:47:25,400 --> 01:47:29,080
Speaker 4: They brought the landline back. One of the interesting products

2339
01:47:29,240 --> 01:47:32,240
Speaker 4: of like that was in the holiday season. I think

2340
01:47:32,280 --> 01:47:34,720
Speaker 4: it's more like uppity rich parents are doing this, but

2341
01:47:34,800 --> 01:47:37,600
Speaker 4: they're like, there's a startup that made handset and you

2342
01:47:37,680 --> 01:47:40,200
Speaker 4: can program like your friends to it. So your kids friends,

2343
01:47:40,560 --> 01:47:43,120
Speaker 4: it's a handset, they pick it up, they dial their friends.

2344
01:47:43,200 --> 01:47:43,400
Speaker 3: Court.

2345
01:47:43,880 --> 01:47:45,479
Speaker 4: I think there is a court. I think I think

2346
01:47:45,520 --> 01:47:47,839
Speaker 4: there may be a court. It's a handset.

2347
01:47:47,920 --> 01:47:49,519
Speaker 3: It's those phone numbers memorize.

2348
01:47:49,600 --> 01:47:52,439
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's more like these are your trusted contacts. That's

2349
01:47:52,439 --> 01:47:54,960
Speaker 4: all this thing can call. It's back to the days

2350
01:47:55,000 --> 01:47:55,640
Speaker 4: where we were just like.

2351
01:47:55,680 --> 01:47:56,800
Speaker 3: Get plugged into your wall.

2352
01:47:56,960 --> 01:48:01,759
Speaker 2: Or is it? Because you can quite cynical about cs

2353
01:48:01,880 --> 01:48:04,639
Speaker 2: and my god, have we got another two hours today

2354
01:48:04,680 --> 01:48:06,800
Speaker 2: and four hours tomorrow and one hour on Saturday, so

2355
01:48:06,920 --> 01:48:09,280
Speaker 2: we will be there's also a degree of like, as

2356
01:48:09,360 --> 01:48:11,439
Speaker 2: much as we complain, I've got to hang out with

2357
01:48:11,520 --> 01:48:16,519
Speaker 2: my friends all we and I got to do it,

2358
01:48:16,640 --> 01:48:18,840
Speaker 2: and I got to record using a weird road cast to.

2359
01:48:18,880 --> 01:48:21,200
Speaker 1: Pro too of the best thing. It's amazing and we

2360
01:48:21,240 --> 01:48:23,799
Speaker 1: can record the audio. I have one for Mattasowski producing

2361
01:48:23,920 --> 01:48:24,519
Speaker 1: a beat on that.

2362
01:48:24,640 --> 01:48:25,519
Speaker 3: It looks like a.

2363
01:48:27,120 --> 01:48:29,000
Speaker 1: Soundboard as well. You can do all sorts of noises.

2364
01:48:29,320 --> 01:48:31,320
Speaker 1: But it's like you can do really cool shit with

2365
01:48:31,360 --> 01:48:33,519
Speaker 1: the computer now and you can talk to your friends

2366
01:48:33,560 --> 01:48:36,160
Speaker 1: with it. It's but the reason that things are shit

2367
01:48:36,400 --> 01:48:39,360
Speaker 1: is the people that are making the interfaces, the social

2368
01:48:39,400 --> 01:48:43,879
Speaker 1: interfaces are getting in the way. Understanding that and starting

2369
01:48:44,000 --> 01:48:47,360
Speaker 1: from that position is what makes things better for you.

2370
01:48:47,760 --> 01:48:50,360
Speaker 1: They're not gonna make it better for you. They're fucking assholes.

2371
01:48:50,400 --> 01:48:54,080
Speaker 1: Mark Zuckerberg is overseeing a fraudulent operation. Ten percent of

2372
01:48:54,080 --> 01:48:56,160
Speaker 1: their revenue in twenty twenty four for Meta was from

2373
01:48:56,240 --> 01:48:58,560
Speaker 1: scams and fraud. That is a fucking reported thing. For

2374
01:48:58,760 --> 01:49:01,799
Speaker 1: Jeff Horwitz of Reuters, like that should tell you everything.

2375
01:49:02,240 --> 01:49:04,639
Speaker 1: It does not mean that the computer is inherently bad.

2376
01:49:04,720 --> 01:49:06,880
Speaker 1: What they've done to the computer is bad, and what

2377
01:49:06,960 --> 01:49:08,360
Speaker 1: we can do with the computer is the solution.

2378
01:49:08,560 --> 01:49:09,759
Speaker 2: In the you can pull.

2379
01:49:09,640 --> 01:49:12,679
Speaker 1: Together a bunch of people just using text an email.

2380
01:49:12,840 --> 01:49:15,120
Speaker 1: I fucking just did it this week. There are great

2381
01:49:15,160 --> 01:49:17,559
Speaker 1: things you can do it text text, text, go meet

2382
01:49:17,560 --> 01:49:20,080
Speaker 1: in real life. You can take fucking photos on your phone.

2383
01:49:20,320 --> 01:49:22,400
Speaker 2: Awesome. There are still good things to be done. I

2384
01:49:22,479 --> 01:49:25,040
Speaker 2: know this is so hokey, but I think it's hot.

2385
01:49:25,280 --> 01:49:25,960
Speaker 2: It's a good point.

2386
01:49:26,439 --> 01:49:29,840
Speaker 4: It's not about being completely anti tech. It's about it's.

2387
01:49:29,720 --> 01:49:32,760
Speaker 1: About being anti tech industry at the moment because it's

2388
01:49:32,800 --> 01:49:35,560
Speaker 1: like we like Pebble because Pebble's like, what if a

2389
01:49:35,640 --> 01:49:39,160
Speaker 1: device had a use case, and anyone's like, fuck this shit,

2390
01:49:39,760 --> 01:49:41,479
Speaker 1: what do you mean you won't grow by twenty two

2391
01:49:41,520 --> 01:49:43,320
Speaker 1: percent year of a year, every quarter, you piece of

2392
01:49:43,560 --> 01:49:47,000
Speaker 1: except these private doesn't matter and it's just by years

2393
01:49:47,040 --> 01:49:47,439
Speaker 1: at the moment.

2394
01:49:47,479 --> 01:49:49,760
Speaker 2: That's my big that's actually my better off line twenty

2395
01:49:49,800 --> 01:49:53,639
Speaker 2: twenty by verb by reefer By.

2396
01:49:53,720 --> 01:49:57,559
Speaker 1: You don't give these fucking companies another fucking dollar until

2397
01:49:57,600 --> 01:49:59,680
Speaker 1: they can prove that they can earn it, because that

2398
01:49:59,880 --> 01:50:02,200
Speaker 1: is the real problem. They want to grow forever. You

2399
01:50:02,240 --> 01:50:04,120
Speaker 1: want to grow forever and make useful shit. But the

2400
01:50:04,200 --> 01:50:07,200
Speaker 1: actual internals of the computer. I also will address something

2401
01:50:07,240 --> 01:50:09,479
Speaker 1: that people ema my occasionally, which is, oh, the computer

2402
01:50:09,560 --> 01:50:11,880
Speaker 1: industry used to be good whatever. I don't know if

2403
01:50:11,880 --> 01:50:13,160
Speaker 1: it used to be good, but it used to be bow.

2404
01:50:13,920 --> 01:50:15,719
Speaker 1: But there were beautiful things in the computer.

2405
01:50:16,040 --> 01:50:16,240
Speaker 3: Yeah.

2406
01:50:16,320 --> 01:50:18,120
Speaker 4: Part of how we got here is that we didn't

2407
01:50:18,200 --> 01:50:22,040
Speaker 4: ask cultural questions right. We didn't push back against certain elements.

2408
01:50:22,120 --> 01:50:24,680
Speaker 4: Like I was there when social media was just starting out.

2409
01:50:24,800 --> 01:50:26,799
Speaker 4: It was like, oh, yeah, look at this feed of information.

2410
01:50:27,120 --> 01:50:28,200
Speaker 2: It was so cool.

2411
01:50:28,320 --> 01:50:30,760
Speaker 4: But it was also we knew Mark Zuckerberg was a

2412
01:50:30,800 --> 01:50:34,320
Speaker 4: piece of shit from the beginning, but most there did not.

2413
01:50:34,600 --> 01:50:36,720
Speaker 4: Most people did not, but there were enough stories about oh,

2414
01:50:36,760 --> 01:50:38,439
Speaker 4: look at this kid who dropped out of Harvard and

2415
01:50:38,560 --> 01:50:39,960
Speaker 4: like did this thing, but there were stories about what

2416
01:50:40,040 --> 01:50:42,800
Speaker 4: he did before, how like the shitty sexist, like proto

2417
01:50:42,880 --> 01:50:46,160
Speaker 4: social network he made who he was. Like, those stories

2418
01:50:46,200 --> 01:50:49,200
Speaker 4: were out there, and I watched this kid who didn't

2419
01:50:49,200 --> 01:50:52,160
Speaker 4: finish college but also had no real awareness of the

2420
01:50:52,200 --> 01:50:55,559
Speaker 4: world be propped up by vcs in the entire industry

2421
01:50:55,600 --> 01:50:57,960
Speaker 4: as some sort of like boy king. And what he

2422
01:50:58,080 --> 01:51:01,080
Speaker 4: did was create a thing that just generated money, right,

2423
01:51:01,160 --> 01:51:04,920
Speaker 4: And that the entire point of Facebook two thousand, you know,

2424
01:51:05,200 --> 01:51:07,720
Speaker 4: late two thousands to twenty tens, was just as much

2425
01:51:07,760 --> 01:51:08,839
Speaker 4: engagement as possible.

2426
01:51:09,080 --> 01:51:09,280
Speaker 6: It was.

2427
01:51:09,560 --> 01:51:12,000
Speaker 4: It was just that farming. And then everybody copied that,

2428
01:51:12,400 --> 01:51:15,040
Speaker 4: and that broke us because they didn't want to create

2429
01:51:15,080 --> 01:51:17,920
Speaker 4: something good. They just wanted to create something that addicted us.

2430
01:51:18,080 --> 01:51:18,920
Speaker 4: It's like cigarettes.

2431
01:51:19,400 --> 01:51:22,320
Speaker 1: It's that and the scourge of neoliberalism and the idea

2432
01:51:22,439 --> 01:51:26,040
Speaker 1: that everything everything, that the market is dominant. The market

2433
01:51:26,080 --> 01:51:30,400
Speaker 1: would never incentivize something bad. Again, Yeah, everyone took a lack.

2434
01:51:30,280 --> 01:51:32,559
Speaker 2: Of regulations in the twenty tens that that didn't help.

2435
01:51:32,640 --> 01:51:34,920
Speaker 2: You talk about killing baby Hitler, that's great. I think

2436
01:51:35,000 --> 01:51:37,120
Speaker 2: baby Milton Freeman and baby we're on a bag and

2437
01:51:37,439 --> 01:51:40,320
Speaker 2: put them on the top of the pile. We got

2438
01:51:40,360 --> 01:51:43,840
Speaker 2: all sorts of babies, a lot of baby. No.

2439
01:51:43,960 --> 01:51:46,760
Speaker 1: But it's But the thing is, it's like the incentives

2440
01:51:46,800 --> 01:51:48,400
Speaker 1: of the problem and the only thing we can do

2441
01:51:48,520 --> 01:51:51,479
Speaker 1: is consumers, is don't stop using tech. You I think

2442
01:51:51,520 --> 01:51:52,760
Speaker 1: that that's an unrealistic thing.

2443
01:51:52,800 --> 01:51:55,040
Speaker 2: Like, Chloe, it's your luck, like you have to use tech,

2444
01:51:55,120 --> 01:51:57,600
Speaker 2: especially as a stand up you kind of I have

2445
01:51:57,680 --> 01:51:58,439
Speaker 2: to use social media.

2446
01:51:58,720 --> 01:51:59,120
Speaker 5: You have to.

2447
01:51:59,240 --> 01:52:01,360
Speaker 1: There's just no other way around it. Don't buy a

2448
01:52:01,400 --> 01:52:03,840
Speaker 1: new phone. I'm done buying new fucking ship.

2449
01:52:04,280 --> 01:52:05,720
Speaker 2: I'm I'm going there.

2450
01:52:06,160 --> 01:52:07,479
Speaker 3: You haven't seen how broken my phone?

2451
01:52:07,920 --> 01:52:12,040
Speaker 2: No but going go and buy Chloe, Chloe, go on,

2452
01:52:12,120 --> 01:52:18,760
Speaker 2: buy a research. I actually think, I actually think I

2453
01:52:18,840 --> 01:52:21,360
Speaker 2: am done buying new phones. I'm going to buy the

2454
01:52:21,439 --> 01:52:23,280
Speaker 2: referb forever.

2455
01:52:23,560 --> 01:52:26,160
Speaker 4: I buy my my parents refer buy phones every couple

2456
01:52:26,160 --> 01:52:29,240
Speaker 4: of years from Amazon. Perfect. Yep, it works great. They

2457
01:52:29,600 --> 01:52:31,880
Speaker 4: the hardware lasts and then they're still like.

2458
01:52:32,520 --> 01:52:35,360
Speaker 2: Ship, No new ship unless it's cool, unless it's fucking

2459
01:52:35,439 --> 01:52:41,680
Speaker 2: new and cool and good Foxy. Yes, it's like really though,

2460
01:52:41,840 --> 01:52:44,240
Speaker 2: if you can buy new by used, go on eBay,

2461
01:52:44,360 --> 01:52:47,639
Speaker 2: go on whatever, Go on Craigslist, like go and buy

2462
01:52:47,760 --> 01:52:51,639
Speaker 2: from a regular person, circulate that money in the real world,

2463
01:52:52,000 --> 01:52:54,960
Speaker 2: take it out of the fucking stock market cash cat.

2464
01:52:55,320 --> 01:52:57,240
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm going a lil insane, but it's like I

2465
01:52:57,640 --> 01:52:59,599
Speaker 1: stand by it because it's like all of the new

2466
01:52:59,680 --> 01:53:00,680
Speaker 1: price is it going to go up?

2467
01:53:01,000 --> 01:53:02,880
Speaker 4: Yeah? And when it comes to social media, I think

2468
01:53:02,920 --> 01:53:05,280
Speaker 4: we can be more intentional. Right, It's like, for the

2469
01:53:05,360 --> 01:53:07,400
Speaker 4: longest time, people are making arguments like, Okay, I'm gonna

2470
01:53:07,400 --> 01:53:09,360
Speaker 4: stay on X even though Elon Musk bought it and

2471
01:53:09,400 --> 01:53:11,400
Speaker 4: destroy Twitter. I'm gonna stand on the stand. Now it's

2472
01:53:11,400 --> 01:53:13,599
Speaker 4: a freaking sea sam generating garbage.

2473
01:53:13,640 --> 01:53:13,920
Speaker 2: Mae.

2474
01:53:14,120 --> 01:53:16,040
Speaker 4: It's like, I think we can start to make those

2475
01:53:16,120 --> 01:53:18,680
Speaker 4: moral choices where it's like, career wise, I would be

2476
01:53:18,720 --> 01:53:21,680
Speaker 4: better off staying on X probably, but you have to

2477
01:53:21,760 --> 01:53:24,320
Speaker 4: have some sort of like moral center, and I think

2478
01:53:24,400 --> 01:53:26,559
Speaker 4: where we need to ask more of that as ourselves

2479
01:53:26,640 --> 01:53:28,479
Speaker 4: right now. So yeah, get off of X.

2480
01:53:28,600 --> 01:53:31,600
Speaker 2: I'm honestly like, I want to stay on there for

2481
01:53:31,680 --> 01:53:33,960
Speaker 2: my fucking publisher and I might talk to them about it. Yeah,

2482
01:53:33,960 --> 01:53:36,160
Speaker 2: It's just like it's a horrifying pedo generator.

2483
01:53:36,200 --> 01:53:37,960
Speaker 4: You don't want to be there, and they're literally nobody's

2484
01:53:38,000 --> 01:53:41,160
Speaker 4: doing anything about the pornography and the sea sam being

2485
01:53:41,200 --> 01:53:43,600
Speaker 4: generated on it and that just exists. And they just

2486
01:53:43,680 --> 01:53:46,600
Speaker 4: got a bunch of new funding. They got rewarded for this.

2487
01:53:46,680 --> 01:53:48,360
Speaker 2: Well they did that so they could buy GPUs.

2488
01:53:48,520 --> 01:53:48,640
Speaker 5: Yes.

2489
01:53:48,720 --> 01:53:51,040
Speaker 1: Now, actually I want to end with a fun idea.

2490
01:53:51,600 --> 01:53:53,479
Speaker 1: Here's a fun idea that I think everyone's gonna love.

2491
01:53:53,560 --> 01:53:56,679
Speaker 1: So here is how Elon Musk ruins his life using AI.

2492
01:53:57,080 --> 01:53:59,920
Speaker 1: So Elon Musk is doing. They just raised twenty billion dollars.

2493
01:54:00,120 --> 01:54:02,280
Speaker 1: Most of that is going to go to GPUs AI.

2494
01:54:02,240 --> 01:54:04,360
Speaker 3: For groc And where did they raise that from?

2495
01:54:04,439 --> 01:54:07,880
Speaker 2: Vcs vcsh fuck? I forget, like who exactly why the

2496
01:54:08,040 --> 01:54:11,400
Speaker 2: venture capitalist is it? It's mostly vcs in debt and Nvidia.

2497
01:54:11,960 --> 01:54:14,599
Speaker 2: So they're doing that to build more data centers. They're

2498
01:54:14,640 --> 01:54:16,840
Speaker 2: losing over a billion dollars a month just on the

2499
01:54:16,920 --> 01:54:19,120
Speaker 2: current thing. They're going to build more data centers, which

2500
01:54:19,120 --> 01:54:22,080
Speaker 2: will lose them even more money. Elon masks money mostly

2501
01:54:22,120 --> 01:54:24,559
Speaker 2: comes from leverage, which means just borrowing on his current

2502
01:54:24,640 --> 01:54:28,640
Speaker 2: holdings what He's not particularly liquid, and he's added the

2503
01:54:29,320 --> 01:54:33,600
Speaker 2: most money losing thing ever to a social network which

2504
01:54:33,640 --> 01:54:36,560
Speaker 2: already loses money and a slash groc on Reddit.

2505
01:54:36,720 --> 01:54:41,160
Speaker 1: Everyone there should be redacted. It's mostly just people generating

2506
01:54:41,360 --> 01:54:42,520
Speaker 1: horrifying things of women.

2507
01:54:43,120 --> 01:54:45,000
Speaker 2: Here's the thing. Every time he does that, it's probably

2508
01:54:45,000 --> 01:54:47,440
Speaker 2: five to ten bucks. It's happening millions of times a day.

2509
01:54:48,000 --> 01:54:50,839
Speaker 2: This could actually lead AI could lead to the destruction

2510
01:54:50,960 --> 01:54:52,920
Speaker 2: of someone like that. And people say, oh, Elon Musk

2511
01:54:52,920 --> 01:54:57,080
Speaker 2: always finds more money. There are actual limits to Ed's point.

2512
01:54:57,760 --> 01:54:59,000
Speaker 2: There are actual limits.

2513
01:54:59,040 --> 01:55:01,440
Speaker 4: The thing I would say for people, Yes, he is

2514
01:55:01,480 --> 01:55:02,760
Speaker 4: still he is the world's richest.

2515
01:55:02,840 --> 01:55:05,240
Speaker 2: He's finding ways to do it because he's the richest

2516
01:55:05,320 --> 01:55:07,920
Speaker 2: man on paper. Yeah, and he got so much, like

2517
01:55:07,960 --> 01:55:12,800
Speaker 2: the Twitter deals thirteen billion dollars, there's fucking nothing compared

2518
01:55:12,840 --> 01:55:15,240
Speaker 2: to the bullshit data centers. I want everyone to just

2519
01:55:15,640 --> 01:55:18,120
Speaker 2: think about and laugh about the idea that this man

2520
01:55:18,280 --> 01:55:21,560
Speaker 2: is building big ass data centers to just under money.

2521
01:55:21,600 --> 01:55:23,640
Speaker 4: He keeps talking about Mars. Let him go to my

2522
01:55:24,960 --> 01:55:28,160
Speaker 4: to Mars. Let him be hoisted by his own Yeah.

2523
01:55:28,160 --> 01:55:30,840
Speaker 4: If you've read the beginning of Red Mars, you know

2524
01:55:31,960 --> 01:55:34,080
Speaker 4: it's totally great. There's some ideas there.

2525
01:55:34,240 --> 01:55:34,440
Speaker 2: Yeah.

2526
01:55:35,400 --> 01:55:38,760
Speaker 7: Then that first prologue about what might happen to Elon Musk.

2527
01:55:39,800 --> 01:55:40,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's so good.

2528
01:55:41,400 --> 01:55:44,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's and I realized that it's tough, and I

2529
01:55:44,400 --> 01:55:45,680
Speaker 1: know it's we come to the end of this block.

2530
01:55:45,720 --> 01:55:48,440
Speaker 1: I know we've been quite cynical. This is so hokey,

2531
01:55:48,480 --> 01:55:50,720
Speaker 1: and I do this every CS. The best thing you

2532
01:55:50,800 --> 01:55:52,640
Speaker 1: can do when you hear this stuff, when you're like

2533
01:55:52,720 --> 01:55:55,720
Speaker 1: I'm upset with this is love your friends harder. Telling

2534
01:55:55,800 --> 01:55:57,680
Speaker 1: me I love everyone in this room, genuinely, so happy

2535
01:55:57,720 --> 01:56:00,400
Speaker 1: to have everyone here. But it's like that that little

2536
01:56:00,440 --> 01:56:03,800
Speaker 1: thing that you think is so immaterial. We'll save lives,

2537
01:56:03,840 --> 01:56:06,320
Speaker 1: will make people's lives happier. Tell people you love their shit.

2538
01:56:06,400 --> 01:56:08,880
Speaker 1: Go online, use social media to say I think clubic

2539
01:56:08,960 --> 01:56:11,480
Speaker 1: you're insanely funny, and I've watched you only get funnyeh, Devendra.

2540
01:56:11,520 --> 01:56:12,960
Speaker 2: I've followed you work for like a decade.

2541
01:56:13,240 --> 01:56:15,720
Speaker 1: Edward and Graso Junior an insanely talented man, and I

2542
01:56:15,800 --> 01:56:17,120
Speaker 1: love reading your work and I love having you on

2543
01:56:17,160 --> 01:56:19,200
Speaker 1: the mic. These things are actually very easy to do

2544
01:56:19,480 --> 01:56:23,120
Speaker 1: and easier because of digital There is never go you're

2545
01:56:23,120 --> 01:56:25,320
Speaker 1: listening to this, go and fucking do that too. Literally,

2546
01:56:25,440 --> 01:56:28,240
Speaker 1: anyone you know, family member, friend creator, Tell them you

2547
01:56:28,280 --> 01:56:31,280
Speaker 1: love them, love their shit, and why. That is actually

2548
01:56:31,400 --> 01:56:33,680
Speaker 1: something that digital communication allows you to do today that

2549
01:56:33,720 --> 01:56:36,880
Speaker 1: will make the world better by used by used. Now,

2550
01:56:37,160 --> 01:56:39,000
Speaker 1: if you want a new thing, buy a used one,

2551
01:56:39,360 --> 01:56:42,680
Speaker 1: it's probably fine. That is the only way we begin

2552
01:56:42,840 --> 01:56:45,880
Speaker 1: fixing things. And these moral choices like Devendra mentioned.

2553
01:56:45,840 --> 01:56:47,720
Speaker 7: Or if I want to chat you bt rapper to

2554
01:56:47,760 --> 01:56:49,640
Speaker 7: tell me what color my shit is and if that

2555
01:56:50,120 --> 01:56:52,960
Speaker 7: is gonna be indicative of a health problem.

2556
01:56:52,840 --> 01:56:54,920
Speaker 2: You could just use Microsoft Copilot, which will be in

2557
01:56:54,960 --> 01:56:55,920
Speaker 2: a Windows laptop from a.

2558
01:56:55,960 --> 01:57:01,000
Speaker 7: Year Microsoft three sixty five. Could hear the laptop around

2559
01:57:01,080 --> 01:57:04,520
Speaker 7: and take a photo and then also at the same time,

2560
01:57:04,560 --> 01:57:05,280
Speaker 7: look at the chap.

2561
01:57:07,800 --> 01:57:08,240
Speaker 3: You got this.

2562
01:57:08,920 --> 01:57:10,720
Speaker 4: We're going to see some cool stuff like these with

2563
01:57:10,800 --> 01:57:14,600
Speaker 4: these local lll ms. We're gonna go back to punk tech, right,

2564
01:57:14,640 --> 01:57:17,400
Speaker 4: people building their own cool little minds make little cool

2565
01:57:17,480 --> 01:57:20,160
Speaker 4: things like We're going to be back there, their own

2566
01:57:20,160 --> 01:57:22,880
Speaker 4: little gadgets powered by punk tech. I want to see

2567
01:57:22,920 --> 01:57:23,200
Speaker 4: that more.

2568
01:57:23,560 --> 01:57:26,160
Speaker 1: And the thing is, I know it's fucking grim out there,

2569
01:57:26,200 --> 01:57:29,280
Speaker 1: and it really is. We are still One of the

2570
01:57:29,360 --> 01:57:32,080
Speaker 1: problems in society is we're hyper connected and full of technology.

2571
01:57:32,720 --> 01:57:34,440
Speaker 1: One of the cool things is we are as well,

2572
01:57:35,080 --> 01:57:37,400
Speaker 1: and there is a ton of tech that exists today

2573
01:57:37,400 --> 01:57:39,040
Speaker 1: that you don't need to worry about the future.

2574
01:57:38,960 --> 01:57:41,120
Speaker 2: That will do what you want to do. By us,

2575
01:57:41,280 --> 01:57:43,000
Speaker 2: I just tell your friends and family you love them,

2576
01:57:43,040 --> 01:57:45,040
Speaker 2: to creators, you love their work, share their ship.

2577
01:57:45,040 --> 01:57:47,600
Speaker 3: Give me a little compliments gift No I mentioned.

2578
01:57:48,560 --> 01:57:51,120
Speaker 2: Give friends little compliments that you can do that in seconds,

2579
01:57:51,160 --> 01:57:52,480
Speaker 2: that it doesn't matter where they are in the world,

2580
01:57:52,520 --> 01:57:54,400
Speaker 2: as long as they've gotten into that connection. It's so

2581
01:57:54,680 --> 01:57:59,200
Speaker 2: fucking hokey, but I think it's easy to miss. And

2582
01:57:59,320 --> 01:58:01,520
Speaker 2: I think like we come to an end. As we

2583
01:58:01,640 --> 01:58:02,920
Speaker 2: come to the end here, it has come to the

2584
01:58:03,000 --> 01:58:05,280
Speaker 2: end of this blog. It's worth saying that. And you

2585
01:58:05,360 --> 01:58:07,480
Speaker 2: know what, I only have one plug something Devendra. What

2586
01:58:07,560 --> 01:58:08,800
Speaker 2: are you working on the moment? What do you want

2587
01:58:08,800 --> 01:58:09,360
Speaker 2: people to read?

2588
01:58:09,480 --> 01:58:11,520
Speaker 4: And gadgets? Where where I'm doing this stuff? Check out

2589
01:58:11,520 --> 01:58:13,880
Speaker 4: our CS coverage. I also do a movie podcast, the

2590
01:58:13,960 --> 01:58:16,480
Speaker 4: Filmcast at the filmcast dot com. Can't wait to see

2591
01:58:16,480 --> 01:58:18,640
Speaker 4: your movie, Chloe, But maybe don't listen to my review.

2592
01:58:18,680 --> 01:58:20,040
Speaker 4: I don't know. I don't know.

2593
01:58:20,480 --> 01:58:22,800
Speaker 2: Edwin Greiser Junior, what you're excited about writing? What are

2594
01:58:22,800 --> 01:58:23,560
Speaker 2: you writing at the moment?

2595
01:58:27,280 --> 01:58:31,160
Speaker 7: Working on this very weird essay for for prim magazine?

2596
01:58:31,400 --> 01:58:31,680
Speaker 2: Tell me.

2597
01:58:34,320 --> 01:58:38,000
Speaker 7: It's uh, I mean yeah, it's I've pitched the same idea.

2598
01:58:38,040 --> 01:58:39,200
Speaker 7: You know, I supposed to do this. I pitched the

2599
01:58:39,200 --> 01:58:41,320
Speaker 7: same idea two places, but I know one is gonna

2600
01:58:41,520 --> 01:58:43,400
Speaker 7: one is gonna actually say yes, and the other one

2601
01:58:44,080 --> 01:58:47,600
Speaker 7: and it's uh. One of my favorite speeches is MLK

2602
01:58:47,800 --> 01:58:51,680
Speaker 7: is a Letter to Christians. It's from the perspective of

2603
01:58:51,960 --> 01:58:55,200
Speaker 7: Paul writing to American Christians and warning and kind of

2604
01:58:55,280 --> 01:58:57,760
Speaker 7: like sussing out the society they have in warning about it.

2605
01:58:58,200 --> 01:59:00,160
Speaker 7: But I wanted to invert it, so I wrote a

2606
01:59:00,360 --> 01:59:04,000
Speaker 7: letter from a future where fascist won, and it's a

2607
01:59:04,400 --> 01:59:07,920
Speaker 7: letter from the fascist who won to the fascist now

2608
01:59:08,680 --> 01:59:11,640
Speaker 7: as a way to reverse talk about stuff that's.

2609
01:59:11,560 --> 01:59:12,080
Speaker 6: Going on now.

2610
01:59:12,760 --> 01:59:15,560
Speaker 3: That sounds yeah, I don't.

2611
01:59:15,600 --> 01:59:17,520
Speaker 7: I don't like researching it.

2612
01:59:17,600 --> 01:59:17,680
Speaker 1: But.

2613
01:59:19,240 --> 01:59:20,240
Speaker 4: It's been interesting.

2614
01:59:20,320 --> 01:59:22,960
Speaker 7: It's a fun experiment. Yeah, so stuff like that. I've

2615
01:59:22,960 --> 01:59:24,920
Speaker 7: been trying to do a lot more fiction experiments because

2616
01:59:24,920 --> 01:59:27,280
Speaker 7: I've been doing more readings lately. So good, it's excited

2617
01:59:27,320 --> 01:59:27,440
Speaker 7: for that.

2618
01:59:27,960 --> 01:59:29,960
Speaker 2: Fucking great, Chloe, Why are you playing? Wait?

2619
01:59:30,040 --> 01:59:30,200
Speaker 6: Then?

2620
01:59:30,520 --> 01:59:34,720
Speaker 3: I'm doing Cincinnati this weekend the ninth and tenth or

2621
01:59:34,760 --> 01:59:37,040
Speaker 3: tenth and eleventh, whatever. The Friday Saturday is Lincoln be

2622
01:59:37,120 --> 01:59:41,360
Speaker 3: in the then Washington, d C. The next weekend MLK

2623
01:59:41,520 --> 01:59:47,520
Speaker 3: weekend Thursday, Friday Saturday, and then that following week Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday.

2624
01:59:47,680 --> 01:59:51,280
Speaker 3: Not a weekend. I'm doing my solo show Cheat in Philadelphia.

2625
01:59:52,280 --> 01:59:56,960
Speaker 3: Come on out to that. After that Vermont for Collins. YadA, YadA, YadA,

2626
01:59:57,600 --> 01:59:59,600
Speaker 3: Road Fargo, and I.

2627
01:59:59,680 --> 02:00:02,960
Speaker 1: Have been putting a link to getting a permanent discount

2628
02:00:03,000 --> 02:00:04,920
Speaker 1: to my newsletter. And in these things I've not done

2629
02:00:04,960 --> 02:00:07,560
Speaker 1: my paid newsletter. It's a chunk of my income. Please

2630
02:00:07,640 --> 02:00:11,240
Speaker 1: fucking God, subscribe to my paid newsletter. I really if

2631
02:00:11,280 --> 02:00:13,040
Speaker 1: I can in the years time, if I can double

2632
02:00:13,080 --> 02:00:14,000
Speaker 1: from here, I can just do this.

2633
02:00:14,280 --> 02:00:15,680
Speaker 2: Yes, really happy?

2634
02:00:15,920 --> 02:00:17,720
Speaker 7: Also subscribe their mind. Yeah, well I figure out a

2635
02:00:17,760 --> 02:00:18,640
Speaker 7: special we can do an a.

2636
02:00:20,720 --> 02:00:23,760
Speaker 2: Better than one. Yeah, really though, if you're gonna put

2637
02:00:23,760 --> 02:00:24,600
Speaker 2: your money into anything.

2638
02:00:24,880 --> 02:00:26,880
Speaker 1: Sean Paul Adams, who was a friend of the show,

2639
02:00:27,000 --> 02:00:29,000
Speaker 1: friend of the suite, He passed sadly last year. His

2640
02:00:29,080 --> 02:00:31,840
Speaker 1: son is epileptic, so we are honoring him by getting

2641
02:00:31,840 --> 02:00:35,280
Speaker 1: you to donate to the Pediatric Epilepsy Research Consortium. His

2642
02:00:35,360 --> 02:00:37,600
Speaker 1: family and friends would deeply appreciate you doing so, and

2643
02:00:37,720 --> 02:00:40,000
Speaker 1: so would I. Thank you so much. We'll be back

2644
02:00:40,040 --> 02:00:43,120
Speaker 1: for two hours. In a few hours. This has been incredible.

2645
02:00:43,120 --> 02:00:43,920
Speaker 1: I love doing this show.

2646
02:00:44,040 --> 02:00:55,320
Speaker 2: I love you all. Thank you for listening to Better Offline.

2647
02:00:55,640 --> 02:00:58,040
Speaker 2: The editor and composer of the Better Offline theme song

2648
02:00:58,120 --> 02:01:00,760
Speaker 2: is Metosowski. You can check out more of his music

2649
02:01:00,800 --> 02:01:04,240
Speaker 2: and audio projects at Mattasowski dot com, M A T

2650
02:01:04,440 --> 02:01:08,840
Speaker 2: T O S O W s ki dot com. You

2651
02:01:08,920 --> 02:01:11,320
Speaker 2: can email me at easy at Better Offline dot com

2652
02:01:11,520 --> 02:01:13,800
Speaker 2: or visit Better Offline dot com to find more podcast

2653
02:01:13,880 --> 02:01:17,200
Speaker 2: links and of course, my newsletter. I also really recommend

2654
02:01:17,240 --> 02:01:19,040
Speaker 2: you go to chat dot Where's your Head dot at

2655
02:01:19,120 --> 02:01:21,520
Speaker 2: to visit the discord, and go to our slash Better

2656
02:01:21,560 --> 02:01:24,760
Speaker 2: Offline to check out our reddit. Thank you so much

2657
02:01:24,800 --> 02:01:25,280
Speaker 2: for listening.

2658
02:01:26,160 --> 02:01:28,600
Speaker 3: Better Offline is a production of cool Zone Media.

2659
02:01:28,800 --> 02:01:31,600
Speaker 2: For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool

2660
02:01:31,680 --> 02:01:34,760
Speaker 2: Zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio

2661
02:01:34,800 --> 02:01:35,000
Speaker 2: app

2662
02:01:35,080 --> 02:01:37,480
Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.