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Speaker 1: Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we're adding

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Speaker 1: an apostropheed to every word to celebrate Asia Wilson.

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Speaker 2: On today's show, we'll be.

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Speaker 1: Talking to Chicago Sky reporter Annie Costable at the Chicago

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Speaker 1: Sun Times about Angel Reese's rookie season, the backlash to

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Speaker 1: WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert's comments, and adjusting to a new

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Speaker 1: normal in WNBA coverage. Plus we'll celebrate some sly social posts,

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Speaker 1: bronze clocks, and ridiculous rivalries. It's all coming up right

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Speaker 1: after this Happy Friday the thirteenth slices.

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Speaker 2: Here's what you need to know today.

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Speaker 1: The scariest person in sports continues to be an absolute killer,

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Speaker 1: and that's Asia Wilson. Wilson had twenty seven points and

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Speaker 1: twelve rebounds to lead the Las Vegas Aces to an

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Speaker 1: eighty six to seventy five win over the Indiana Fever

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Speaker 1: on Wednesday night, shortly after we finished recording our episode.

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Speaker 2: Wilson's pull up.

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Speaker 1: Jumper with twenty six seconds left in the first half

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Speaker 1: brought it to nine hundred and forty one points this year,

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Speaker 1: breaking the WNB record for most points in a season.

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Speaker 1: Jewell Lloyd held the previous record thanks to her nine

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Speaker 1: hundred and thirty nine points last season. Wilson finished the

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Speaker 1: night with the season total of nine hundred and fifty six,

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Speaker 1: and the Aces still have four more games remaining in

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Speaker 1: the regular season. This is just the second WNBA season

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Speaker 1: to feature forty regular season games. The w's first season

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Speaker 1: was just twenty eight games long, and for the majority

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Speaker 1: of the league's history, the season totaled thirty four games,

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Speaker 1: so Asia will get a couple extra games.

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Speaker 2: All that said, though she still.

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Speaker 1: Currently tops the charts when it comes to most points

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Speaker 1: per game in w history. She's averaging twenty seven point

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Speaker 1: three so far this season, two more than the current

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Speaker 1: record holder, Diana Tarassi, who averaged twenty five point.

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Speaker 2: Two per game back in two thousand and six.

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Speaker 1: Also, we have to shout out the Aces social team

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Speaker 1: for the best possible response to Wilson's record breaking moment.

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Speaker 2: They tweeted out, Bam, there it is.

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Speaker 1: Asia Wilson has the single greatest scoring season in WNBA history.

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Speaker 2: You guys, hear that, hear that, Bam.

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Speaker 1: And bam Outebaio him self even chimed in writing unanimous,

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Speaker 1: as in you apostrophe nanimous cute apostre bam at it again.

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Speaker 2: We love those two.

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Speaker 1: More WNBA some scary hours for WNBA fans, as there's

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Speaker 1: just one week left in the regular season and the

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Speaker 1: battle for playoff spots and home court advantage will come

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Speaker 1: down to the wire. Looking ahead to tonight, the good

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Speaker 1: news is there are five WNBA games on the schedule.

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Speaker 1: The bad news is four of the five have the

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Speaker 1: same exact start time, seven thirty pm Eastern, So get

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Speaker 1: out your laptop and your phone and that old phone

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Speaker 1: you still have line around because it's a multi screen

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Speaker 1: kind of night. As a reminder, we got three teams,

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Speaker 1: the Chicago Sky, Atlanta Dream, and the Washington Mystics, all

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Speaker 1: fighting for the eighth and final playoff spot, and each

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Speaker 1: of those teams has four games left, and two of

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Speaker 1: the final four for the Mystics and Dream are against

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Speaker 1: each other.

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Speaker 2: This is going to get spicy' all.

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Speaker 1: The Mystics had a big win over the Sky on Wednesday,

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Speaker 1: they travel to Atlanta tonight. Meanwhile, the Minnesota Links play

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Speaker 1: host to the Chicago Sky. Will link to the full

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Speaker 1: schedule in our show notes. Final WNBA note before we

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Speaker 1: move on. On Wednesday, both the WNBA and the Las

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Speaker 1: Vegas Aces filed motions to dismiss the Sparks Deerica Hamby's

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Speaker 1: federal lawsuit. According to reporter Calli Lawson Freeman of the

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Speaker 1: Las Vegas Review Journal, the WNBA's lawyers argue that Hamby's

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Speaker 1: case should be dismissed because Hamby's claim under the Civil

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Speaker 1: Rights Act quote fail in their entirety because Hamby does

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Speaker 1: not plausibly allege that the WNBA quote unquote employed her.

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Speaker 1: We'll link to Kelly's story in the show notes. To

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Speaker 1: soccer in the NWSL, there are seven match days left

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Speaker 1: in the NWSL regular season. If the postseason started today,

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Speaker 1: the Orlando Pride would be the top seeded team in

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Speaker 1: the league, while the Chicago Red Stars would be the

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Speaker 1: eighth and final team to make the postseason. But there's

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Speaker 1: plenty of time for those standings to get shaken up.

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Speaker 2: Tonight, We're especially excited.

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Speaker 1: For the matchup between the aforementioned top of the table

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Speaker 1: Pride and the third place Casey Current. That's an eight

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Speaker 1: pm Eastern kickoff in Orlando, and we'll link to the

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Speaker 1: full NWSL schedule in our show notes. Also, can we

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Speaker 1: spend just a sec here talking about what it must

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Speaker 1: be like to be a Washer Spirit fan.

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Speaker 2: This team has reached such high.

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Speaker 1: Highs and also low lows over the last couple of seasons,

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Speaker 1: winning the twenty twenty one NWSL title, amit a tumultuous

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Speaker 1: season and calls for ownership change, and then they didn't

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Speaker 1: qualify for.

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Speaker 2: The playoffs the last two seasons.

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Speaker 1: Now they got Magic Johnson on the sideline and they've

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Speaker 1: got it, and by it, I mean mostly the incredible

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Speaker 1: Trinity Rodman. Last weekend, she notched her twentieth career assist,

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Speaker 1: making her the youngest player in NWSL history to accomplish

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Speaker 1: that feat.

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Speaker 2: By nearly three years.

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Speaker 1: And she had Chicago skyrookie Camilla Cardoso rocking her jersey

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Speaker 1: before the game the other night.

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Speaker 2: In fact, that Rodman jersey has been.

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Speaker 1: Spotted all sorts of places lately, US Open everywhere.

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Speaker 2: It's like I said, she's it.

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Speaker 1: The Spirit is currently second in the standings, just six

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Speaker 1: points behind Orlando to golf, the twenty twenty four Solheim

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Speaker 1: Cup tease off today in Gainesville, Virginia.

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Speaker 2: Quick refresher for you.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So, the Solheim Cup is a biennial women's golf

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Speaker 1: tournament contested between the US and Europe.

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Speaker 2: The events started in nineteen ninety. This year's the nineteenth

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Speaker 2: edition of the tournament.

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Speaker 1: Europe enters this Year'storney as the three time defending champions,

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Speaker 1: but the US leads the overall series all time ten

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Speaker 1: seven in one.

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Speaker 2: Now that one.

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Speaker 1: Tie it actually happened in the most recent edition of

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Speaker 1: the tournament. The twenty twenty three Solheim Cup ended in

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Speaker 1: a fourteen to fourteen tie, but since Europe was the

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Speaker 1: most recent champion, they got to keep possession of the trophy. Now,

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Speaker 1: if you're confused about marking it a tie but counting

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Speaker 1: it as a win, join the club. We're gonna have

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Speaker 1: a golf guest on next week to explain that and

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Speaker 1: a whole lot more. Meantime, you can watch the Solheim

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Speaker 1: Cup live on NBC Peacock and the Golf Channel.

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Speaker 2: To gymnastics.

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Speaker 1: After Jordan Chiles was stripped of her Olympic floor bronze

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Speaker 1: medal in August, you might recall that Flavor Flave promised

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Speaker 1: to make her a custom bronze clock, writing on Twitter

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Speaker 1: quote that's something no one else has. While on Wednesday

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Speaker 1: night at the VMAs, he made good on that promise,

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Speaker 1: presenting Jordan with her own custom bronze clock medal. And

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Speaker 1: we also have to shout out Flay for making the

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Speaker 1: presentation while wearing a water polo cap on stage and

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Speaker 1: shouting out his role as official hype man of the

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Speaker 1: US women's national water polo team.

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Speaker 2: That man is always on the clock. We're going to

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Speaker 2: take a break.

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Speaker 1: When we come back, we'll talk Angel Reese, unhinged fans,

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Speaker 1: and the commissions stumble with Annie Constable.

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Speaker 2: Joining us now.

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Speaker 1: She writes about the WNBA, predominantly the Chicago sky for

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Speaker 1: the Chicago Sun Times. She thinks there should be tunnel

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Speaker 1: fit picks for journals. She's taller than I remember every

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Speaker 1: single time I see her, and for the last time, people,

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Speaker 1: she doesn't write the headlines.

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Speaker 2: For her stories. Okay, it's Annie Constable.

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Speaker 3: Annie, what's up, Sarah? Thank you for having me.

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Speaker 4: Thank you for that introduction too, because I still firmly

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Speaker 4: believe journalists should have tunnel fit pick only somebody I'm

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Speaker 4: waiting for my opportunity, Like I want to be on

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Speaker 4: league fits so bad.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because you're like a thrift queen love super unique style.

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Speaker 1: There are people who shall not be named who should

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Speaker 1: not have tunnel fits and they appreciate the job because

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Speaker 1: they don't and aren't required to have to worry about

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Speaker 1: that stuff.

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Speaker 2: So my choice, my choice.

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Speaker 3: Yes, it's okay.

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Speaker 1: You've been covering the Sky for a few years now,

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Speaker 1: and this year you've really got a front row seat

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Speaker 1: to rookie sensation Angel Reese's debut season. I'd love to

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Speaker 1: start just like big picture there because obviously the Sky

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Speaker 1: won the whole thing a couple of years ago, Candice

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Speaker 1: Parker was in town. It became a thing in a

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Speaker 1: way it hadn't been before. But I still think there's

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Speaker 1: a difference pre Angel to post Angel.

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Speaker 2: Can you kind of describe how this year has compared

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Speaker 2: to previously.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I love this question because there is a very

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Speaker 4: distinct difference and one of my favorite ways to describe

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Speaker 4: that difference, and I'm actually working on a story that

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Speaker 4: that'll be an off season story that kind of gets

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Speaker 4: into this, but is the difference can best be described

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Speaker 4: by this interview that I actually did with Dwayne Wade

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Speaker 4: and Gabrielle Union and we were it was before I

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Speaker 4: think maybe their first home game that I caught up

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Speaker 4: with them and I, you know, ran over a court

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Speaker 4: side where they were sitting and I wanted their perspective

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Speaker 4: on this exact thing. I was like, what, you know, like,

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Speaker 4: can you put into words what's going on with this team?

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Speaker 4: And in my mind, having covered the NBA as well,

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Speaker 4: my my comparison was the Golden State Warriors. And when

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Speaker 4: whenever the Golden State Warriors traveled to an away game

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Speaker 4: anywhere they go, it's like it's like the Beatles are

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Speaker 4: in town, Fans flock to to see them. They crowd

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Speaker 4: the tunnel, you know, when when the players take the

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Speaker 4: core at pregame, it's it's this reaction that is so

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Speaker 4: much bigger than just a game. And so that was

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Speaker 4: was what I was seeing, you know, through the first

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Speaker 4: few games of the season, and I'm like, how do

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Speaker 4: how do other players? How do other professionals in this business?

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Speaker 4: How do how does someone like like Duwayne Wade perceive this?

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Speaker 4: And the funniest thing that Gabrielle said to me was,

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Speaker 4: you know, you mentioned the Warriors, but I'm gonna mention

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Speaker 4: the Heatles. And you know, obviously I was talking about

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Speaker 4: Dayne Wade and Lebron James and Chris Bosh and I

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Speaker 4: think that's the best way to describe, you know, that

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Speaker 4: aspect of Angel's impact and that the sky are bigger

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Speaker 4: than just a basketball team.

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Speaker 3: And when you have a team that's not doing.

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Speaker 4: Well, you know, in terms of wins and losses, this

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Speaker 4: this stuff matters. And so I think that's the impact

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Speaker 4: is that this team. People care about this team not

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Speaker 4: just because of what's what's happening on the court. They

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Speaker 4: they want to know about Angel's life off the court.

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Speaker 4: They want to know, you know, where these players are shopping,

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Speaker 4: what they're doing in their free time. They want to

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Speaker 4: know about them as humans. And I think that's the

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Speaker 4: way that sports as we know it like grow, is

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Speaker 4: what people care about the teams beyond just the game

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Speaker 4: as we wins.

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Speaker 1: How is Angel's first year compared to your expectations coming in?

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Speaker 1: There were a lot of questions about how she would

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Speaker 1: transition to the pro style game.

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Speaker 4: I think everyone I spoke to before the draft was

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Speaker 4: very confident in how her rebus bounding was going to

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Speaker 4: translate to the game, like how she was going to

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Speaker 4: have this instant impact. I know, you know, I don't

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Speaker 4: even like to call them fans, but we'll call them

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Speaker 4: like observers or opinionated. I don't know, people you know

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Speaker 4: questioned her efficiency and all these other aspects of her game.

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Speaker 4: But the professionals I talked to, the GMS, I talked to,

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Speaker 4: the coaches I talked to, they all were talking about

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Speaker 4: how she undoubtedly would translate to the W because of

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Speaker 4: her rebounding and because of her impact that comes from

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Speaker 4: these hustle plays she makes and the way she approaches

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Speaker 4: the game and her mental approach to the game. So

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Speaker 4: to be honest, I think the biggest surprise to me

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Speaker 4: was not that she's having an impact, but just how

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Speaker 4: significant her impact actually is. Like for a number seven

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Speaker 4: pick to be in the conversation for Rookie of the Year,

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Speaker 4: not even to be in the conversation, but for the

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Speaker 4: entire first half the half of the season, really be

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Speaker 4: like leading that conversation in many people's minds. That's what

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Speaker 4: not even surprised me, but just stood out to me

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Speaker 4: about how impactful she's actually been.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and you have to wonder if there are other

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Speaker 1: teams who are thinking, now, we should have grabbed her

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Speaker 1: before that number seven pick, or we should have worked

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Speaker 1: or traded up to try to get her because.

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Speaker 2: She's had that impact.

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Speaker 1: I do want to get back to something you said though,

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Speaker 1: because I am as a basketball watcher, as a sky fan,

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Speaker 1: and as someone who played basketball, I am sort of

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Speaker 1: intrigued by that conversation around efficiency versus efficacy. She is

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Speaker 1: undeniable in her efficacy. You look at the number she

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Speaker 1: puts up, the effect she has on the game, the

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Speaker 1: impact she's had on this team.

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Speaker 2: But she does at times have poor efficiency.

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Speaker 1: Now it is exaggerated by those who have a bone

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Speaker 1: to pick in the Caitlin versus Angel thing. They'll say

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Speaker 1: she wouldn't have any rebounds if she weren't rebounding her

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Speaker 1: own offensive missus, which, by the way, multiple people have

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Speaker 1: actually done the work to watch and been able to

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Speaker 1: say she would still be leading the league in offensive

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Speaker 1: rebounds even if she didn't get a single one of

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Speaker 1: her own misses.

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Speaker 2: So let's put that out there that that is a lie.

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Speaker 1: And still she obviously has a lot of work to

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Speaker 1: do on other parts of her game. Where do you

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Speaker 1: see her being able to improve so that she is

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Speaker 1: a more multifaceted a threat as opposed to just doing

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Speaker 1: that work kind of in the pain.

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Speaker 4: So this is another question I love and just a

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Speaker 4: conversation I love because again, you know this like you

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Speaker 4: have covered professional sports. Professional athletes are not afraid to

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Speaker 4: talk about ways in which they need to improve. And

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Speaker 4: Angel is a professional, like she shows up every day

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Speaker 4: to work ready to improve at her job, which is

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Speaker 4: playing basketball. And so one of those aspects that needs improvement,

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Speaker 4: like you mentioned, is her efficiency, and she doesn't shy

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Speaker 4: away from that, like she talks actively about that. And

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Speaker 4: so I think when specifically talking about her efficiency, another

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Speaker 4: ass aspect of improving that that she's talked about is

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Speaker 4: is just.

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Speaker 3: Slowing down the game.

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Speaker 4: Like something advice she's gotten from veterans is is you

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Speaker 4: need to slow down when you're when you're rushing through

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Speaker 4: these shots, when you're rushing your your footwork, all of

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Speaker 4: these aspects of what it is to be a four

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Speaker 4: or five in the w n B A, you end

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Speaker 4: up kind of like we've seen her, uh, failing to execute.

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Speaker 3: These very very easy shots.

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Speaker 4: That that again, with with practice and with you know,

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Speaker 4: dedicated practice, that's going to be an aspect of her

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Speaker 4: game that she's going to be able to improve. And

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Speaker 4: and then the other thing that I just love to

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Speaker 4: talk about when it comes to her efficiency and the

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Speaker 4: whole like, oh, her getting her own rebounds is like, wait,

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Speaker 4: do people want her not to try and get offensive?

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Speaker 4: Like would that make everybody feel better if she wasn't

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Speaker 4: trying to get the pookback?

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Speaker 3: Like I'm sorry.

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Speaker 4: It speaks to those gms and coaches were talking about

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Speaker 4: before she was drafted, and that her hustle and the

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Speaker 4: way she plays the game, that's not something that can

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Speaker 4: be taught. That's an intangible And when you hear players

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Speaker 4: talk about these intangible qualities or coaches talk about these

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Speaker 4: intangible qualities, those matter just as much as the aspects

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Speaker 4: of your game like efficiency. And so for Angel, I

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Speaker 4: think watching what she does this offseason, watching how she improves,

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Speaker 4: is going to be really exciting because she's focused on that.

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Speaker 4: And then just to add like a quick note too,

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Speaker 4: it's like she wants to expand her shot range.

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Speaker 3: She said in her.

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Speaker 4: Post, you know when she broke the news about her

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Speaker 4: season ending injury, is like, oh, it's hysterical.

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Speaker 3: My last shot of my rookie season was a three.

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Speaker 4: It's like that speaks to again ways in what she

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Speaker 4: wants to improve her game. She wants to be a

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Speaker 4: traditional stretch for and you know all the skeptics, let

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Speaker 4: them say what they want to say, we'll see what

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Speaker 4: she does next year.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and if you're ever at the games, I do

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Speaker 1: think it's wild how she has already achieved that Rodman

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Speaker 1: effect of the fans knowing the work she's putting into

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Speaker 1: the rebounds and going crazy when she gets a good one.

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Speaker 1: That's not normal like maybe a crazy physical place someone

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Speaker 1: will notice, but for the most part, people pull down

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Speaker 1: rebounds and keep it moving. When Angel gets a rebound

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Speaker 1: at a sky game at home, the crowd goes wild.

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Speaker 2: It's really cool to see. I mentioned the headlines off

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Speaker 2: the top, and I want to talk about that.

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Speaker 1: Can you start by explaining to folks how newspapers work

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Speaker 1: and why it's been an issue for you this year

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Speaker 1: that you don't write your own headlines?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, So, first off, I think when it comes to

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Speaker 4: media literacy, conversations like this are so important because it's

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Speaker 4: not going to be clearly communicated on social media.

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Speaker 3: And I think.

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Speaker 4: Also like respect needs to be given to the people

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Speaker 4: who pioneered coverage of this league and other women's sports leagues,

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Speaker 4: and those were blogs, those were fans, like those were

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Speaker 4: the people that were showing up historic to cover these leagues.

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Speaker 4: So now that traditional media is coming in. It's it's like,

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Speaker 4: I will never push back on people's response to our coverage,

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Speaker 4: whether it's good or bad, because it's just part of

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Speaker 4: it's part of the industry.

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Speaker 3: So when it comes to my.

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Speaker 4: Job specifically, obviously, being a beat writer means you're there

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Speaker 4: every day. You're there at practice, you're there at shoot arounds,

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Speaker 4: you're there on the road, You're there every single day.

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Speaker 4: And when it comes to game day coverage, for me specifically,

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Speaker 4: I'm writing two stories on deadline, and so the way

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Speaker 4: that works is like I'm filing a notebook story, which

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Speaker 4: is sometimes you know, sometimes like a big picture story,

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Speaker 4: maybe a league wide story, something that you don't have

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Speaker 4: the time to expand upon right in that moment, but

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Speaker 4: you're you're going to get to it later, and little

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Speaker 4: notes that you want people to know about.

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Speaker 3: I have to file that by halftime.

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Speaker 4: You know, our editors are editing that getting it into

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Speaker 4: the print copy. That's happening at halftime. My final game

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Speaker 4: deadline is nine forty five for anybody that wants to

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Speaker 4: know specific like, I have to get that story in

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Speaker 4: by nine forty five in order for it to make

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Speaker 4: the print copy. And so what comes with that is

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Speaker 4: obviously like I'm doing my job and there's someone else

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Speaker 4: that's doing an entirely different job, which is editing my copy.

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Speaker 4: There's someone else who again is is laying out the paper,

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Speaker 4: pulling a picture to use on the back page, coming

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Speaker 4: up with the copy that's going on the back page.

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Speaker 4: Everything from again the headline to that sub headline you're seeing,

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Speaker 4: and that's something that's that's that's not in my job title,

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Speaker 4: that's not in my list of duties. And so often

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Speaker 4: I'm honestly ninety percent of the time, i would say

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Speaker 4: ninety nine percent of the time I'm seeing the back

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Speaker 4: page if it is my story at the same time

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Speaker 4: as everybody else. And so there's that's that's the reality

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Speaker 4: of our business. Because again, you couldn't get a print

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Speaker 4: coffee out if if one person was tasked with doing

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Speaker 4: all of that. So for starters, you know, that's how

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Speaker 4: it goes. That's how that's how my job goes.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and then there was a time this season in particular,

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Speaker 1: that you sent out a story that was, you know,

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Speaker 1: full of a bunch of different facts and commentary and

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Speaker 1: thoughts on the game at an included commentary on Diamond

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Speaker 1: Deshields and her foul on Caitlin Clark, and the headline

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Speaker 1: and the photo were maybe not what you would have chosen.

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Speaker 4: No exactly, And I think I work for an outlet,

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Speaker 4: and I'm so thankful that I want. I work for

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Speaker 4: an outlet that has supported me and this coverage that

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Speaker 4: sends me on the road, that pays me a full

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Speaker 4: time salary to show up every day to cover the WNBA.

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Speaker 3: I know how few jobs there are that allow a.

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Speaker 4: Person to do that, and so I am so thankful

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Speaker 4: for this position. I'm in. Also to that note, I'm

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Speaker 4: thankful that I work for editors who encourage me to

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Speaker 4: cover women the same way that I cover men, and

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Speaker 4: that's with a critical lens when necessary. That's writing columns

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Speaker 4: when necessary. That's also writing, you know, features that maybe

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Speaker 4: aren't just critical when necessary. It's everything right combined into one.

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Speaker 4: They're allowing me to do that, and they're encouraging me

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Speaker 4: to do that. They're encouraging me to be skeptical, they're

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Speaker 4: encouraging me again to go hard when necessary. And so

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Speaker 4: for this game specifically, there were two aspects that to

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Speaker 4: me were front and center, and that was the fever

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Speaker 4: in the Sky at the beginning of the year were

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Speaker 4: very much described as being in similar positions by myself.

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Speaker 4: Included like, these are two franchises that are rebuilding, and

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Speaker 4: while the Fever have openly admitted to their rebuild, the

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Speaker 4: Sky even though they don't want to say it, are

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Speaker 4: still rebuilding, and so these are two franchises that are

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Speaker 4: on similar trajectories. Well, we know, coming back from the

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Speaker 4: Olympic break, the Fever went left and the Sky went right,

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Speaker 4: and so that was an aspect of the story that

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Speaker 4: needed to be talked about, is how the Fever are

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Speaker 4: taking off in the Sky are falling right now. The

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Speaker 4: other aspect of it, part of the Sky falling is

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Speaker 4: the fact that in these late game scenarios which we

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Speaker 4: saw during this losing streak, they've lacked composure. They've openly

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Speaker 4: talked about players, Spoon, everybody within this organization has openly

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Speaker 4: in interviews, whether it's pregame, whether it's postgame, whether it's

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Speaker 4: me on the road talking to them, have not shied

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Speaker 4: away from the fact that in these moments they've lacked composure.

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Speaker 4: So me knowing that and having that context, when Diamond

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Speaker 4: committed that flagrant fall, it wasn't about it being a

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Speaker 4: personal attack on Caitlin. I love basketball, Okay, I'm not

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Speaker 4: going to look at it in that way.

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Speaker 3: It was not a personal attack on Caitlin. It never

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Speaker 3: has been.

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Speaker 4: But this fall while the Sky are down almost thirty,

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Speaker 4: they were down twenty seven points at that point in

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Speaker 4: the game. To commit that flagrant foul in garbage minutes

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Speaker 4: was a reflection of the context I was trying to

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Speaker 4: bring to the game.

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Speaker 2: And absolutely the.

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Speaker 4: Sky have lacked composure here. You have a veteran player

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Speaker 4: committing a flagrant fall, whoever it was on. That's important

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Speaker 4: context to describe where this team is at, absolutely in.

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Speaker 3: The bigger picture.

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Speaker 4: And so that was the story, and that was part

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Speaker 4: of the story, and as a journalist, that's my job

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Speaker 4: to again describe the story and bring the context to it.

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Speaker 1: But the headline and the photo ended up making it

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Speaker 1: feel like the story was about the Sky having it

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Speaker 1: out for Caitlin, this being Kennedy Carter flagrant number two remix,

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Speaker 1: and fans were coming after you for that being the

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Speaker 1: focus instead of the rest of the game. There's been

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Speaker 1: this push and pull in Chicago's newspapers and the world

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Speaker 1: of this WNBA season between experts and others, And there

439
00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:15,480
Speaker 1: was a particularly unpalatable op ed from the Chicago Tribune

440
00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:18,000
Speaker 1: editorial board early in the season talking about that Kennedy

441
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:21,160
Speaker 1: Carter and News making flagrant foul against Clark. They wrote, quote,

442
00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:23,160
Speaker 1: outside of a sporting contest, it would have been seen

443
00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:25,680
Speaker 1: as assault, which, by the way, is something that could

444
00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:27,200
Speaker 1: be said of like half of the things that happened

445
00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:28,840
Speaker 1: on a field to record, Like most of the things

446
00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:31,439
Speaker 1: we need each other in sports are agreed upon that

447
00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:33,320
Speaker 1: we can do and would be assault if we did

448
00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:34,080
Speaker 1: them to a stranger.

449
00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:35,520
Speaker 2: That's beside the point.

450
00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:37,920
Speaker 1: The point is more that this divide between the game

451
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:41,920
Speaker 1: knowers and others has felt especially wide this season. How

452
00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:43,760
Speaker 1: has it felt to you as a journalist and have

453
00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:47,520
Speaker 1: you had to change your job at all to appease

454
00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:49,680
Speaker 1: or understanding that there are a lot more people reading

455
00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:51,120
Speaker 1: and listing that don't know shit about shit?

456
00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:53,119
Speaker 2: You know.

457
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:56,760
Speaker 4: I think my approach not even to my job in

458
00:22:56,800 --> 00:22:59,400
Speaker 4: this respect, but like life in general, is when you're

459
00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:06,239
Speaker 4: getting that much feedback, like something is that loud, you

460
00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:09,439
Speaker 4: have to look inward and you have to take a

461
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:11,840
Speaker 4: step back and be like, Okay, if this is the reaction,

462
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:13,399
Speaker 4: if the reaction is this strong.

463
00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:16,800
Speaker 3: My reaction can't be oh, you all don't know.

464
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:19,720
Speaker 4: The journalism business, Like I'm gonna ignore you, you know

465
00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:22,680
Speaker 4: what I'm saying. Like it's important, like as humans, in

466
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:26,639
Speaker 4: any relationship, whether it's work, whether it's like friendship, whether

467
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:31,000
Speaker 4: it's like with a loved one, your partner, it's important

468
00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:34,480
Speaker 4: that when you're getting feedback, your reaction is not oh,

469
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:37,240
Speaker 4: I did nothing wrong, like we did nothing wrong, you

470
00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:40,000
Speaker 4: know what I'm saying. So when it comes to the

471
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:46,119
Speaker 4: feedback as hard like as much as it because girl,

472
00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:50,560
Speaker 4: it hurts, it hurts so much.

473
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:53,879
Speaker 3: And so for me, it's more so.

474
00:23:55,320 --> 00:24:00,959
Speaker 4: Staying focused and locked in on executing your job in

475
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:04,840
Speaker 4: a in a healthy, like successful manner. And I've always

476
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:09,480
Speaker 4: been very very intentional with like my word choice, and

477
00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:15,600
Speaker 4: very very you know, just strategic, you know, and thoughtful

478
00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:18,480
Speaker 4: to more so just kind of show up harder, like

479
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:22,560
Speaker 4: show up more consistent, show up and really continue to

480
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:25,680
Speaker 4: do your job and and and stand behind the job

481
00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:26,240
Speaker 4: that you do.

482
00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:29,479
Speaker 1: You know, I don't help, no, I mean, first of all,

483
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:33,240
Speaker 1: it's great advice. One of my favorite, like recent internet

484
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,320
Speaker 1: memes is normalize getting more information and changing your mind

485
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 1: like that is just an approach to life we shall have.

486
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:41,600
Speaker 1: But to what you said, it's really smart like to

487
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:44,280
Speaker 1: take the criticism and first ask, okay, let me sit

488
00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:46,840
Speaker 1: with myself and see where this supplies, where it's accurate,

489
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:49,760
Speaker 1: what I can do differently, how they're right, and then

490
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:53,239
Speaker 1: also let me put into context to saying it, what

491
00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:56,280
Speaker 1: their knowledge is of the situation, the game, et cetera.

492
00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:59,200
Speaker 1: And how do I make it so that my work

493
00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:02,439
Speaker 1: helps educate them as I help pull them along to

494
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:04,760
Speaker 1: catch up. Not let me tell you how stupid you are.

495
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 1: This is the emotion. Yes, you don't know what you're

496
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:10,240
Speaker 1: talking about, and welcome, let me help you learn.

497
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:10,679
Speaker 3: Right, right.

498
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:12,879
Speaker 1: So that's been a really tough job I think for

499
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:14,760
Speaker 1: people in the W this season when it comes to

500
00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 1: specifically Reese, Caitlin, Kennedy Carter, like those are especially for conversations.

501
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:23,240
Speaker 1: I have found myself sometimes not posting things on social

502
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:25,159
Speaker 1: media because I honestly don't want to deal with the

503
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:28,639
Speaker 1: unhinged responses. I am sometimes posting and I'm very strategic,

504
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:30,680
Speaker 1: and other times I'm like, I have stuff to say,

505
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:32,480
Speaker 1: and you know what, I don't have time today. I

506
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:34,960
Speaker 1: just don't have time for the mental load it's going

507
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:37,080
Speaker 1: to take for some of these people to be in

508
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:39,119
Speaker 1: the mentions. Maybe some of them will be right about

509
00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 1: some things. Oh that's an interesting thought, and so many

510
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:43,320
Speaker 1: of them it will feel.

511
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:46,760
Speaker 2: Uneducated and uninformed.

512
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:50,000
Speaker 1: How have you handled that and how is it, if

513
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:52,600
Speaker 1: at all, changed your coverage this year committed to previous

514
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:53,359
Speaker 1: years in the W.

515
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:59,359
Speaker 4: You know, I gotta be honest, I and maybe someone

516
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 4: from the house I would have to speak to, like, Oh,

517
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:07,560
Speaker 4: has Annie's coverage seemed to change? I feel like my

518
00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:16,040
Speaker 4: coverage has consistently gotten more critical in a healthy way.

519
00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:19,080
Speaker 4: Like I think about my first year covering the Sky

520
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 4: and I was like, I was so fresh, and you know,

521
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:26,360
Speaker 4: they're winning a title. And there were times that year

522
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,359
Speaker 4: when I would think, because again I go back to

523
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:32,240
Speaker 4: I want to cover women's sports the same way I

524
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 4: cover mens, Like, I don't want to be afraid of

525
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 4: asking hard questions. I don't want to coddle and write

526
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 4: these puff pieces.

527
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:41,200
Speaker 3: And so going back.

528
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:43,480
Speaker 4: To that twenty twenty one year, I remember thinking, oh,

529
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:45,159
Speaker 4: my god, am I being too soft? Like?

530
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 3: Is am I going too easy?

531
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 4: But again, it's easy to go easy when you're winning

532
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:54,879
Speaker 4: a title, But mentally it's entirely impacted the way I

533
00:26:54,960 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 4: approach social media, the way that I share stories. Like

534
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:04,359
Speaker 4: there's been times this year, Sarah where I have not

535
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:08,680
Speaker 4: even like shared stories because i've I've I just mentally

536
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:13,480
Speaker 4: was not like ready for to go then go on

537
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:17,679
Speaker 4: social media and get those responses.

538
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:19,879
Speaker 3: So that's what's changed.

539
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 4: And I think that just takes you know, having thicked

540
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:27,479
Speaker 4: skin and continuing to grow in the industry and knowing like, again,

541
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:30,040
Speaker 4: you know what you're doing, and it's okay to share

542
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:33,040
Speaker 4: your stories and it's okay for people to disagree, yeah,

543
00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:34,520
Speaker 4: with the way you cover teams.

544
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:36,520
Speaker 1: And also to your point, there was a plague of

545
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:39,320
Speaker 1: women's sports coverage that felt necessary at the time that

546
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:42,480
Speaker 1: was a bit cheerleadery because the well was so poisoned

547
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:45,199
Speaker 1: already that if the majority of people are shit talking,

548
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:48,000
Speaker 1: the reporters almost need to elevate in a way that

549
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:51,280
Speaker 1: feels too soft. We're not there anymore, and the necessary

550
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:53,960
Speaker 1: step to keep growing the game is now to offer

551
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:57,679
Speaker 1: the same critical eye so that there are things to debate.

552
00:27:57,800 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 1: There are players to criticize when they're not playing well,

553
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:01,879
Speaker 1: there coaches to say should be fired. All of that

554
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:05,160
Speaker 1: is fair game in sports. It felt wrong or difficult

555
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:07,439
Speaker 1: to do before. Now it should be the norm, and

556
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:10,240
Speaker 1: you're doing a great job of that. So it's easier

557
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:12,000
Speaker 1: said than done. But keep at it and don't don't

558
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 1: let the haters get you down. Speaking of haters, Commissioner

559
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:18,119
Speaker 1: Kathy Engelbert has a few right now. She missed the

560
00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:20,480
Speaker 1: mark on her CNBC interview the other night when asked

561
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:23,399
Speaker 1: about the uptick in racist and homophobic commentary from fans

562
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:26,040
Speaker 1: and the dark side to the growing rivalry and the

563
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:28,879
Speaker 1: attention on Clark and Reese. How big of a disconnect

564
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,240
Speaker 1: do you think there is between the league's leadership and

565
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 1: the league's players, Because it has felt like such a beautiful,

566
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:38,920
Speaker 1: collaborative and collective group. But now I'm starting to wonder

567
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 1: how much it's just been the players, almost in spite

568
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:44,160
Speaker 1: of some leadership that's maybe not as connected as we imagined.

569
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:50,840
Speaker 4: You know, I think this is a really unfortunate reality

570
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:55,640
Speaker 4: for women's sports in general and for women in general.

571
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 4: Like I might get too big picture here, but girl,

572
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:05,520
Speaker 4: I know you're gonna feel this. How often have we

573
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:10,120
Speaker 4: had to fight and bark and be like listen to me,

574
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:12,560
Speaker 4: I Like, this is what we need to be doing

575
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 4: blah blah blah, all to be told, to be ignored,

576
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:18,680
Speaker 4: to be talked over, to be dismissed.

577
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 3: But then the second it looks good. The second the

578
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 3: second what we were barking about picks up. It's like,

579
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 3: oh yeah, yeah, no, we stand on that, like yeah,

580
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 3: we're proud of that, Like we're proud of Yeah.

581
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 4: I love this. It's like for the for these W players, go,

582
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 4: let's go back to the beginning. I mean, talk about

583
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 4: the beginning of the W, when it was pushed on

584
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 4: players to to show up a certain way in order

585
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:48,960
Speaker 4: to attract a certain fan base. And then it took

586
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 4: players like I think about Cappy Pondexter and her looks

587
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:56,080
Speaker 4: like Ty Young too. It's like, these are players who

588
00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:59,479
Speaker 4: started showing up in these authentic ways and making like

589
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 4: authentic ticity the norm. And so then that became the

590
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:07,400
Speaker 4: w's identity of like, oh, if you're an authentic person

591
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:09,720
Speaker 4: who no matter who you are or how, you show

592
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:11,480
Speaker 4: up like, we're the league for you.

593
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:13,600
Speaker 3: And it's like, well, there was a time when that

594
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:14,400
Speaker 3: wasn't the case.

595
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 4: And so now when I think about this specific instance,

596
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:25,320
Speaker 4: and I talked to Brianna Turner about this it wasn't this,

597
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:29,240
Speaker 4: although this is heightened and there's no doubt about that.

598
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 4: Although what Angel Race is experiencing is completely, you know,

599
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:40,000
Speaker 4: the one end of the stick, the absolute worst type

600
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:45,040
Speaker 4: of treatment that anybody should experience. Players have been talking

601
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:49,560
Speaker 4: about this hostility and this racism and this misogyny and

602
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 4: homophobia on social media for a long time, like Bree

603
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:57,320
Speaker 4: talked about, you know, it started the second I got drafted,

604
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 4: and so I think players have been vocalizing how uncomfortable

605
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 4: social media is and and it's now become this thing

606
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:15,160
Speaker 4: where it's getting conflated with rivalry, and that's not what

607
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:18,960
Speaker 4: should be happening here, you know, Like that's not where

608
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:22,200
Speaker 4: this conversation should be going. It's like, oh yeah, it's

609
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 4: okay for these comments. It's it comes with it comes

610
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:29,960
Speaker 4: with the industry. Just ignore it, you know, just ignore it.

611
00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 4: It's like, oh yeah, really solid advice. I never thought

612
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:36,160
Speaker 4: we never thought of that, No one ever thought of Like,

613
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 4: but what.

614
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:38,720
Speaker 2: I guess, like, what what is I mean?

615
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 1: As someone who did a viral PSA about the terrible

616
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:46,040
Speaker 1: treatment that women, particularly my case, women's sports reporters, was

617
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 1: the focus of ours get but it sort of spread

618
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:50,960
Speaker 1: because it was universal. There aren't a lot of easy

619
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:54,120
Speaker 1: answers right now, There aren't a lot of solutions. But

620
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 1: it feels like this league in the past has taken

621
00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:01,480
Speaker 1: on big problems and found collact aborative and collective ways

622
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:05,000
Speaker 1: to address them. It almost feels like they drop the

623
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:07,440
Speaker 1: ball on this one. Whether that's the league office or

624
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 1: the coaches or the players, they just didn't get out

625
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:12,240
Speaker 1: ahead of it in a way that felt like maybe

626
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:14,480
Speaker 1: they could have known that the ball was rolling down

627
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 1: the hills starting with March madness. Do you think that

628
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:19,840
Speaker 1: we will now see as a result of Engelbert's interview

629
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 1: some sort of action or effort from the league or

630
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:25,920
Speaker 1: players to figure out how to at the very least

631
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 1: be a unified front in opposition to some of what

632
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 1: we're seeing. So it doesn't feel like right now where

633
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:33,920
Speaker 1: it does feel like you can pit players or teams

634
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:36,480
Speaker 1: against each other instead of believing that they're all on

635
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 1: the same side of this.

636
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think absolutely, because I think anytime the players

637
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:46,800
Speaker 4: come together on or collectively are like, no, that's not

638
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 4: what we stand for, we don't.

639
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 3: We disagree hard, there's always.

640
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:54,320
Speaker 4: A response that's on the other side, and so I

641
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:56,760
Speaker 4: don't know what that response will be. I don't know

642
00:32:56,840 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 4: what the change will be, but I've from my history

643
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:05,160
Speaker 4: of covering this league, there's always been a moment of

644
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:09,520
Speaker 4: disagreement and then a response to it and response for it. Yeah,

645
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:13,040
Speaker 4: and so I think that these are maybe conversations that

646
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:15,600
Speaker 4: are going to happen in the off season. These are

647
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:18,160
Speaker 4: conversations between the WMVPA.

648
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 3: And the league.

649
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:22,760
Speaker 4: And I think, you know, for Kathy, it's like, this

650
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 4: was just a very simple moment for you to just

651
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 4: merely denounce the racism and bigotry and homophobia, and you

652
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 4: just you didn't do that, and so that was that

653
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 4: was your mistake, and now you have to carry it.

654
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:39,440
Speaker 4: And even though you might not have the answer for

655
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:41,960
Speaker 4: what should be going on on social media or how

656
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:45,920
Speaker 4: to prevent players from experiencing it, that's not what players.

657
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:48,480
Speaker 3: Needed from you. They just needed you to have their back.

658
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 1: Well, and she almost fostered it by trying to spin

659
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 1: it into a business opportunity. Rivalries are great for us,

660
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:55,080
Speaker 1: And it's like, wait, wait, wait, are you saying that

661
00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 1: what's happening to these players is great for the league,

662
00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:01,120
Speaker 1: because not only is it not yes attention to rivalries

663
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:04,760
Speaker 1: is great, but this kind of vibe around the league

664
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 1: I think can ultimately be damaging. You're going to create

665
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:09,960
Speaker 1: narratives for the league, which I think is one of

666
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:15,920
Speaker 1: the biggest problems this season has had is we're assigning political, social, racial,

667
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:20,520
Speaker 1: homophobic ideas to people before knowing anything about how they

668
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:23,720
Speaker 1: actually feel, and then we're using those to fuel culture wars.

669
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:26,839
Speaker 1: We're using them as avatars for our own battles. Can

670
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:29,720
Speaker 1: we nip that in the bud by at least saying

671
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:33,759
Speaker 1: whatever you're saying, Like, look at Caitlyn Clark liking a

672
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 1: Taylor Swift post about ash and Kamala and voting her

673
00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:38,840
Speaker 1: fan base now coming in and saying.

674
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:41,360
Speaker 2: I'm not watching you anymore. Okay, what were you watching

675
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:43,239
Speaker 2: her for? Were you watching it for basketball?

676
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:45,719
Speaker 1: Or was she an avatar of a white girl disrupted

677
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:48,840
Speaker 1: predominantly black space and you enjoyed that and now you

678
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:49,480
Speaker 1: don't anymore?

679
00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:49,759
Speaker 2: Right?

680
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:53,000
Speaker 4: I think what's interesting about it as we're seeing kind

681
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:57,360
Speaker 4: of what this Caitlyn Clark Taylor Swift moment is lunatic

682
00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:03,560
Speaker 4: people are going to still be lunatics even after you

683
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:07,520
Speaker 4: make your statement, after you try to bring some sense

684
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:09,920
Speaker 4: to them, and so it's like what can the w

685
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:14,960
Speaker 4: do where where they make things clear, but we also

686
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:20,600
Speaker 4: have to, I don't know, get comfortable with like I

687
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:24,880
Speaker 4: don't know, they're always going to be lunatics, but intact

688
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:27,359
Speaker 4: from what you can protect from.

689
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:29,479
Speaker 1: And that's what i'm That's what I mean is like there,

690
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:31,600
Speaker 1: it's the same in men's sports, and the bigger and

691
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 1: more popular you get, the more you have of all

692
00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:35,360
Speaker 1: of it, the good and the bad, and so you

693
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:38,360
Speaker 1: have to just kind of sift away the fringe and

694
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 1: say this is unreachable. But within the WNBA family of reporters, fans, diehards,

695
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 1: there is still a conflict that didn't exist before that's

696
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:54,439
Speaker 1: a result of all of this added noise, and can

697
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:56,640
Speaker 1: you try to get more on the same page with

698
00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:00,719
Speaker 1: moving forward that they feel supported by their commissioner, supported

699
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:03,040
Speaker 1: by their league as they continue to have to deal

700
00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:04,440
Speaker 1: with some of the stuff that might not have an

701
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:07,360
Speaker 1: easy fix. And I think that's clearly where the commissioner

702
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:08,000
Speaker 1: dropped the ball.

703
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:10,239
Speaker 2: And I think also, you know, she to.

704
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:12,799
Speaker 1: Your point saying just ignore it feels like someone who

705
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:16,080
Speaker 1: maybe hasn't really seen what we're dealing with here. And

706
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:20,960
Speaker 1: Kennedy Carter Diamondshield's Angel in particular, some sky players are

707
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:24,280
Speaker 1: the ones sometimes this season who have faced the worst racist,

708
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:27,759
Speaker 1: missogest and homophobic comments. Do you have examples off the

709
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:29,400
Speaker 1: top of your head, or can you provide a sense

710
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:31,840
Speaker 1: of really what these players are receiving so that people

711
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:34,160
Speaker 1: don't think you're an athlete, like people are going to

712
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:35,399
Speaker 1: just tell you had a bad game.

713
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:36,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean.

714
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:39,680
Speaker 4: Angel talked about this on her podcast. She had ai

715
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:44,240
Speaker 4: pictures of her like created and sent out to her family,

716
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:45,360
Speaker 4: like sexually.

717
00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:47,880
Speaker 3: Explicit pictures of her. This is this is a young.

718
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:49,920
Speaker 4: Woman like and I don't care how old you are.

719
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 4: I don't care woman or man like that is insane.

720
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:57,800
Speaker 4: And then you have Diamond Dashields after this fall on Caitlin,

721
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 4: the messages she's got about everything from from her like

722
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:09,760
Speaker 4: her her, the way she dresses, to just extremely extremely

723
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:16,040
Speaker 4: wanting exactly wanting right, I'm thank you for bringing that up,

724
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 4: like saying about her illness that threatened her life, wishing

725
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:24,239
Speaker 4: that it did the job, like these are things that

726
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:31,279
Speaker 4: again happen to your point earlier, based on fans response

727
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:35,960
Speaker 4: to their their avatar, which they thought represented this thing

728
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:42,239
Speaker 4: being threatened, it's not because anybody that's that's watching basketball,

729
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:49,600
Speaker 4: that loves sports, that loves competition, is not looking at.

730
00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:52,960
Speaker 3: The foul diamond committed and thinking now I got to go.

731
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 4: Make a threat against her life or say something, say

732
00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:02,200
Speaker 4: something like that like that's that's not normal fan behavior.

733
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:06,000
Speaker 4: That's not normal behavior, period. And so this is not

734
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:10,080
Speaker 4: something any athlete should go through. It doesn't matter how

735
00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:13,520
Speaker 4: much money you make, it doesn't matter what your platform is, like,

736
00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:20,359
Speaker 4: these are not appropriate responses to anything anything like.

737
00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:21,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, it just is.

738
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:24,880
Speaker 1: It's a big it's a big problem to fix, and

739
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:28,000
Speaker 1: it's a big culture to try to continue to put,

740
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:30,160
Speaker 1: you know, move in the direction that's going to be

741
00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:34,200
Speaker 1: healthy for the players and fans. But I imagine that

742
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:38,839
Speaker 1: Terry Jackson and THEWNBPA and the players are going to

743
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:41,319
Speaker 1: have their sites set on some more intentional action as

744
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 1: a result of Kathy's interview and in the off season

745
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 1: ahead of next year, we are so past our time.

746
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 2: I have to do a very quick speed round.

747
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:55,680
Speaker 1: Okay, super quick, Okay. Camilla Cardoso was injured, but now

748
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:58,880
Speaker 1: she's had about thirty games, quieter year than expected.

749
00:38:58,880 --> 00:38:59,879
Speaker 2: What have you seen from her?

750
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 3: Not a quieter yere then expected.

751
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:05,560
Speaker 4: I think because of her second half of the season

752
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:07,800
Speaker 4: right now, this is the player she's going to be.

753
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:10,799
Speaker 4: If she improves her footwork and continues to lean on

754
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:14,120
Speaker 4: that speed of hers she's going to be. I would

755
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:16,600
Speaker 4: go as far as saying the most dominant big in

756
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:17,200
Speaker 4: this league.

757
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:19,000
Speaker 2: Awesome. Can't wait for that.

758
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:20,920
Speaker 1: Marina may Breath the latest in a long line of

759
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:24,560
Speaker 1: Chicago players who choose to leave multiple MVPs Sylvia fouls

760
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:27,440
Speaker 1: Elena Delada on Candice Park or Colia Kopper and finals

761
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:30,600
Speaker 1: MVP for that one. All different players, maybe different motivations,

762
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:32,359
Speaker 1: But is there a through line here? What is keeping

763
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:34,320
Speaker 1: people from not wanting to stick around in Chicago?

764
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:38,240
Speaker 4: The through line is the reputation that this franchise has,

765
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:41,840
Speaker 4: and that comes from ownership and lack of investment for years.

766
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:45,879
Speaker 4: And while they're not investing, other franchises were and so

767
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:49,440
Speaker 4: that created this division between the haves and the have nots,

768
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 4: and for a long time, the sky fell in the

769
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:55,840
Speaker 4: latter category. And so that's the through line. It's like

770
00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:59,960
Speaker 4: people players are no longer remaining quiet about what's on,

771
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:03,800
Speaker 4: comfortable with what franchisees. So if you are not a franchise,

772
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:06,960
Speaker 4: that's stepping up to meet the excellence of the players

773
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:11,759
Speaker 4: that you you how that exists under in your franchise,

774
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:13,360
Speaker 4: like you're going to lose them?

775
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:13,879
Speaker 2: Yeah.

776
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:15,760
Speaker 1: I mean you look at the facilities for the Aces

777
00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:17,719
Speaker 1: and the Mercury and stuff, and you're like, good thing,

778
00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:19,760
Speaker 1: the Sky at least announced one of them is coming.

779
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:20,920
Speaker 2: We'll see how long we.

780
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:27,440
Speaker 1: Wait a fort Okay, Sky are trying to hang on

781
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:28,800
Speaker 1: to the eighth and final spot.

782
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:30,200
Speaker 2: If they keep it.

783
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:33,320
Speaker 1: How ugly could it get against the top seed Liberty

784
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:34,160
Speaker 1: in the first round.

785
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:37,879
Speaker 4: All I'm going to say is, look at what happened

786
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:40,840
Speaker 4: last year against the Aces. They made the A seed

787
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:44,040
Speaker 4: and they got swept right like that.

788
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:47,719
Speaker 1: Finally, last and most important question, you've gotten to look

789
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:49,840
Speaker 1: at this new Sky mascot, Sky the Lioness.

790
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:51,200
Speaker 2: Do we have something to work with here?

791
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:53,120
Speaker 1: Is this a little l E two point oho situation

792
00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:55,640
Speaker 1: or the very least not a Sky Guy two point

793
00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:56,320
Speaker 1: oh situation.

794
00:40:56,840 --> 00:40:59,399
Speaker 3: I think good on them getting rid of Sky Guy.

795
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:01,960
Speaker 3: But Sky the Lioness.

796
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:06,839
Speaker 4: Is very clearly a replica of Ellie. And what I've

797
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:09,840
Speaker 4: learned in this industry is if you try to replicate anybody,

798
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:12,440
Speaker 4: you're already behind. Like you got to be yourself. You

799
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:14,960
Speaker 4: got to show up and do you. You cannot replicate

800
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:15,880
Speaker 4: and be successful.

801
00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:17,560
Speaker 2: We'll give Sky some time.

802
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:20,880
Speaker 1: I wanted to be more like Chicago footwork and Chicago

803
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:22,600
Speaker 1: style than just being.

804
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:25,400
Speaker 2: You know, the line who wishes she was an elephant?

805
00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:28,040
Speaker 2: That's a great title for the show. The line you

806
00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 2: wish That's a good children's book. Maybe I'll write it

807
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:32,400
Speaker 2: about absolutely.

808
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:35,799
Speaker 3: To write that.

809
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:37,600
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for coming on.

810
00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:39,960
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having a heated and honest

811
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 1: conversation about these tough topics. We love following your coverage

812
00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:44,960
Speaker 1: and keep it up.

813
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:46,760
Speaker 3: Thanks for having me, Sarah.

814
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 1: We got to take another break when we come back.

815
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:50,920
Speaker 1: Ridiculous rivalries and we're.

816
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:59,800
Speaker 2: Not superstitious, just a little stitious. Welcome back, my little slices.

817
00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:02,879
Speaker 1: It is indeed Friday the thirteenth, So let's shout out

818
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:05,160
Speaker 1: a couple of the greatest number thirteen jersey wearers of

819
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:07,840
Speaker 1: all time, shall we? We gotta start with Alex Morgan,

820
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:10,879
Speaker 1: our favorite baby horse. She just retired with two World Cups,

821
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:13,399
Speaker 1: an Olympic gold medal, a Champions League title, and an

822
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:16,880
Speaker 1: unforgettable legacy in the fight for rights inequality. That is

823
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:20,240
Speaker 1: one proud number thirteen, where meantime, fellow footy star Christine

824
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:23,200
Speaker 1: Lilly another epic number thirteen. She holds the all time

825
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:25,800
Speaker 1: US women's national team appearances record with three hundred and

826
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:28,719
Speaker 1: fifty four caps, and had an incredible twenty one year

827
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:31,920
Speaker 1: career playing in five World Cups, including wins in ninety

828
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:35,360
Speaker 1: one and ninety nine. Finally, Hooper and Minnesota native Lindsay

829
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:38,200
Speaker 1: Whalen led the Minnesota Gophers to their only Final Four

830
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:40,160
Speaker 1: in two thousand and four, and then went on to

831
00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:44,880
Speaker 1: win four WNBA titles with the Minnesota Links. Triska decaphobia,

832
00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:48,600
Speaker 1: no chance, nothing scary about those thirteens, unless, of course,

833
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:52,240
Speaker 1: you were on the other team. We love that you're listening,

834
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:53,520
Speaker 1: but we want to get you in the game every

835
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:56,920
Speaker 1: day too. So here's our good game play of the day. Okay,

836
00:42:57,000 --> 00:42:59,279
Speaker 1: So yesterday I was filling out a form for this

837
00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:02,040
Speaker 1: new Globals Sport's fellowship I'm joining, and one of the

838
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:05,440
Speaker 1: questions was biggest rivalry. Now, remember, I'm trying to think

839
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 1: beyond America centric stuff. This is a global thing. So

840
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:11,640
Speaker 1: I'm past the Celtics, Lakers, Bears, Packers, even USA Canada

841
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:12,280
Speaker 1: women's hockey.

842
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:15,799
Speaker 2: What is the true decades long beef that never disappoints.

843
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:19,920
Speaker 2: So I went with Russia versus the World Anti Doping Agency.

844
00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:24,120
Speaker 1: The whole always slaps, and it got me thinking, what

845
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:26,360
Speaker 1: are some other ridiculous rivalries in sport?

846
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:27,640
Speaker 2: Let me give you a couple examples.

847
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:32,200
Speaker 1: The Chicago Sky versus their own practice facility. Lynn Williams

848
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:34,760
Speaker 1: versus her Olympic gold medal which is now a coaster.

849
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:38,480
Speaker 1: Asia Wilson versus the Aces social team that's always bringing

850
00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:42,120
Speaker 1: up Bam and Diana Tarasi versus that door.

851
00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:46,239
Speaker 2: You remember that from a previous episode. You know, classic rivalries.

852
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:49,799
Speaker 2: We want some more. Send us some ridiculous rivalries.

853
00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:52,040
Speaker 1: Sarah Spain on Twitter Spain two three two three on

854
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:53,640
Speaker 1: instant or you can hit us up on email. Good

855
00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:56,400
Speaker 1: game at wondermedianetwork dot com or leave us a voicemail

856
00:43:56,400 --> 00:43:59,560
Speaker 1: at eight seven two two oh four fifty seventy and

857
00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:03,520
Speaker 1: don't forget to subscribe rate and review slices. Do it

858
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:07,040
Speaker 1: to start your weekend. It's real easy. Watch Taylor Swift

859
00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:11,680
Speaker 1: endorsing Kamala Harris and encouraging voters to register, rating thirteen

860
00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:15,160
Speaker 1: out of five stars. It's her lucky number after all, review.

861
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:18,920
Speaker 1: According to CNN reporter Betsy Klein, after Taylor endorsed Kamala

862
00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:21,000
Speaker 1: Harris and shared a link to vote dot gov following

863
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:23,840
Speaker 1: the debate, vote dot gov saw five hundred and eighty

864
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:26,759
Speaker 1: five percent spike between nine pm and midnight, and in

865
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:30,080
Speaker 1: the twenty four hours after Taylor's endorsement, the site saw

866
00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:33,520
Speaker 1: four hundred and five nine hundred and ninety nine people

867
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:37,360
Speaker 1: referred directly from her Instagram for context. The week prior,

868
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:39,480
Speaker 1: the site had about thirty thousand people per day.

869
00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:41,640
Speaker 2: Look what you made us do? Taylor.

870
00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:45,160
Speaker 1: Happy Friday the thirteenth to our favorite childless cat lady.

871
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:48,160
Speaker 1: Now it's your turn, rate and review. Have a great weekend.

872
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:52,000
Speaker 1: Orange Slices Talk to you Monday. Good Game, Asia, Good game, Annie,

873
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:56,040
Speaker 1: Thank you. The smallest man who ever lived. Good Game

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Speaker 1: with Sarah Spain is an iheartwomen's sports production in partnership

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Speaker 1: with Deep Blue sk Sports and Entertainment. You can find

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Speaker 1: us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

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Speaker 1: get your podcasts. Production by Wonder Media Network, our producers

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Speaker 1: are Alex Azzi and Misha Jones. Our executive producers are

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Speaker 1: Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder. Our

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Speaker 1: editors are Jenny Kaplan, Emily Rudder, Brittany Martinez and Grace Lynch.

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Speaker 1: Production assistants from Lucy Jones and I'm Your Host Sarah

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Speaker 1: Spain