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Speaker 1: Welcome too, had a money I'm Joel and I am Matt.

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Speaker 1: Today we're talking about teaching and retiring rich with Dan Otter.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So teaching is not typically synonymous with accumulating vast quantities

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Speaker 3: of wealth, but our guest today, Dan Otter, he is

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Speaker 3: here to say otherwise. And actually it turns out that

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Speaker 3: teachers might have a way to totally supercharge their retirement

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Speaker 3: by investing even more money than they otherwise thought it

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Speaker 3: was possible or excited to get to that. But Dan Otter,

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Speaker 3: he is an elementary school teacher turned for a three

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Speaker 3: B hero in the world of teachers. He is the

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Speaker 3: founder of the much referenced site for threebys dot org.

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Speaker 3: And we are pumped to discuss the different ways that

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Speaker 3: teachers can financially prepare for their futures. Teaching, by the way,

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Speaker 3: an incredibly underrated profession. I'm sure you would agree, Dan.

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Speaker 3: But we're excited to talk about four three bes, four

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Speaker 3: fifty sevens, pensions, all of that and more today. Thank

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Speaker 3: you for joining us today on the podcast.

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Speaker 4: Oh it's my pleasure. I'm very happy to join you guys.

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Speaker 1: We're excited to have you Dan. And the first question

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Speaker 1: we got to ask you, We ask everybody who comes

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Speaker 1: on is what's your craft beer equivalent? Which means what

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Speaker 1: is it that maybe you spend more on than some

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Speaker 1: people would think of sane, But hey, it's okay because

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Speaker 1: you're still doing the smart things with your money. You're

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Speaker 1: still saving and investing for the future.

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Speaker 4: Well, if you'd asked me this question three years ago,

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Speaker 4: I probably would have said craft beer. I have been

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Speaker 4: a long time craft beer fan. I mentioned before we

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Speaker 4: started recording how I came to our town. It was

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Speaker 4: to work at a university here, at the University of

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Speaker 4: Redlands in Redlands, California, southern California, and I ran something

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Speaker 4: called the School of Continuing Studies. I was an associate

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Speaker 4: dean and I had to come up with classes that

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Speaker 4: would be interesting to the public. And I started a

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Speaker 4: class called From Beer to Eternity. It was the history

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Speaker 4: of beer and we would hold it at the local

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Speaker 4: breweries and it was super, super popular. It was like

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Speaker 4: one day, like I think, three hours, a lot of tasting,

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Speaker 4: but there's the custory. Yeah, people loved it, and there's

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Speaker 4: some interesting history around the development of civilization in beer,

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Speaker 4: you know.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah.

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Speaker 4: One of the readings was a New York Times article

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Speaker 4: that made the case that beer helped advance society, creativity,

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Speaker 4: socialization kind of sounds like college right.

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Speaker 2: Not to mention safe drinking water safe.

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Speaker 1: We're also firm believers that it accelerates your finances.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, the right. But you're absolutely right about the health.

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Speaker 4: You know, the safety. You know you could you could die,

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Speaker 4: you know, drinking the wrong thing, whereas beer had been

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Speaker 4: fermented and you know, pretty healthy. But that was what

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Speaker 4: I would answer three years ago. I have to tell you, guys,

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Speaker 4: I'm not drinking as much as I used to. But

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Speaker 4: I will tell you what I will gladly spend money on,

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Speaker 4: and that is experiences I will upgrade for better concert seats. Now,

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Speaker 4: we just went, my wife and I just went to

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Speaker 4: Vegas to the Sphere to see Las, to see Las Vegas,

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Speaker 4: to see you too. And I'm like, this is not

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Speaker 4: a brag, but tickets were five hundred dollars apiece and

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Speaker 4: they were worth every single penny. I cannot recommend the Sphere.

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Speaker 2: Specifically you too.

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Speaker 3: I'm not gonna lie. I've got a little bit of

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Speaker 3: regret not having missed out on that. And yeah, I

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Speaker 3: don't know if ph'll be another opportunity to go see

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Speaker 3: you t specifically, but I'm like, oh, dang it, I

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Speaker 3: kind of feel like I.

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Speaker 1: Should have I should spend that's wait for Hanson to

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Speaker 1: come to the Sphere someday.

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Speaker 2: Remember it haught my way over there. Maybe you can

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Speaker 2: join me.

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Speaker 4: Dan Well, I think you guys should go easier on

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Speaker 4: yourselves because you're in your early forties, late thirties. I

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Speaker 4: think I heard and I was there, not that well now,

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Speaker 4: it's like eighteen years ago, but I was there and

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Speaker 4: I said no to a bunch of things. I went

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Speaker 4: to San Diego State and I think it was maybe

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Speaker 4: twelve thirteen years ago. They were in the I think

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Speaker 4: it was the final eight or sixteen or something. You know.

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Speaker 4: I know they got to the final, you know, year ago,

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Speaker 4: which was a massive deal, but they finally got passed.

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Speaker 4: I think it was the thirty two got to the sixteen,

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Speaker 4: and I was living in New Mexico at the time,

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Speaker 4: and they were playing in California, and my buddy's like,

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Speaker 4: let's go, and I said no. It's a little bit

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Speaker 4: like your Sphere story. I don't regret saying no, because

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Speaker 4: it would have been too much financially at that time.

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Speaker 4: But now that I'm fifty nine, you know, we still

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Speaker 4: have a kid in college, a pretty pricey college, and

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Speaker 4: then a daughter who's living on her own. She's young professional.

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Speaker 4: I am willing to spend money on that kind of stuff,

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Speaker 4: and I am willing to spend money on travel. My

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Speaker 4: wife and I went to Paris and Katar. Not many

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Speaker 4: people make that combination unless they're going to watch soccer.

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Speaker 4: But we did that in December. And I would say

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Speaker 4: one of my sneaky travel tips, which might not be

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Speaker 4: you know that much of a sneaky tip, is to

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Speaker 4: travel into December to Europe. It is less crowded. People

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Speaker 4: are happier to see you. They are frankly overseeing Americans

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Speaker 4: in the summer. At least five different people told me that.

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Speaker 1: Plus you're not running into a million Americans who July

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Speaker 1: just overrun travel when everybody else isn't.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks for sharing, dan Zag. Yeah yeah, okay, can

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Speaker 3: you kick it off? Tell us the personal store like

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Speaker 3: your own experience. Essentially that kicked off the obsession for

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Speaker 3: you with the which I have a lot of obsessions.

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Speaker 3: The four three journey specifically is what we want to

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Speaker 3: talk about now.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely, so, you had mentioned I was an elementary school teacher.

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Speaker 4: So we're going back to the early nineties, first year

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Speaker 4: on the job, maybe my third month on the job.

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Speaker 4: I know very little about saving for retirement, but I'm

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Speaker 4: thrilled because I know I have a pension. I don't

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Speaker 4: even know how it works, but I've been told, look,

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Speaker 4: you work X number of years, when you retire, you'll

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Speaker 4: get a percentage of your final paycheck until you pass away. Boy,

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Speaker 4: that sounded really great after working in journalism for three

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Speaker 4: years and having no retirement benefits or health benefits. But

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Speaker 4: one day, the kids had left for the day. It

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Speaker 4: was about four o'clock. I'm at my desk desperately trying

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Speaker 4: to get ready for the next day's instruction. Any teacher

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Speaker 4: listening to this understand the terror of being a first

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Speaker 4: year teacher, where every day is a massive challenge, and

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Speaker 4: that first year is a challenge. And so I've got

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Speaker 4: my head down and there's a knock at my classroom door.

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Speaker 4: Woman opens the door, pokes her head in and says

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Speaker 4: a rather jarring comment, do you care about your financial future?

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Speaker 2: Wow?

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Speaker 4: Okay, you're so busy with your work and you hear

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Speaker 4: this question. I think there's only one answer, right, I think,

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Speaker 4: especially the kind of podcast you guys have. Well, yes,

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Speaker 4: So she takes as an invitation to come in my

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Speaker 4: room and she starts talking about these investments. And again

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Speaker 4: I have some vague idea of my life pension, but

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Speaker 4: I have no idea what she's talking about. And she

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Speaker 4: said she helps the teacher next door, the teacher down

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Speaker 4: the hall, and she had the paperwork. Guys, paperwork filled out.

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Speaker 4: All I had to do was sign it, and I

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Speaker 4: think one hundred dollars a month would have gone to

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Speaker 4: this investment. I'm a very skeptical person. I don't like

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Speaker 4: the hard sell, and so I just said, look, if

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Speaker 4: I'm interested, i'll get back in touch, thank you for

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Speaker 4: your time. Lucky for me, I did not get back

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Speaker 4: in touch with her, because I started asking questions of

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Speaker 4: my colleagues. I started self educating myself about saving for retirement,

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Speaker 4: and guys, this is pre podcast era, pre internet, just

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Speaker 4: you couldn't get that information. I mean, I started subscribing

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Speaker 4: to magazines like Money magazine, and what I started to

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Speaker 4: learn was, yes, teachers had a pension, but they also

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Speaker 4: had not one, but two supplemental retirement plans. And at

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Speaker 4: the time I learned about the four H three B,

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Speaker 4: the oldest retirement plan available to teachers. It actually surprisingly

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Speaker 4: to people when they hear this. It predates the four

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Speaker 4: one K by twenty years. So the four H three

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Speaker 4: B was created nineteen fifty eight. So and teachers can

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Speaker 4: also contribute to a four to fifty seven B, but

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Speaker 4: it wasn't as common at that time, the early nineties.

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Speaker 4: And we'll get into the fourty seven because I actually

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Speaker 4: think it's a better plan than the four H three B.

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Speaker 4: But I started researching the four oh three B, and

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Speaker 4: I was horrified when I found out because I had

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Speaker 4: learned you wanted to save in low cost funds. Vanguard

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Speaker 4: is the company I kept hearing about when I would read,

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Speaker 4: you know, money magazine Kiplinger Personal Finance. But that wasn't

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Speaker 4: the case for teachers. Listen to this, guys. I taught

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Speaker 4: in a school district called Corona, Norco Unified School District

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Speaker 4: in nineteen ninety two. They had, I'm not kidding you,

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Speaker 4: one hundred different financial companies available.

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Speaker 2: Could you talk about choice overload?

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Speaker 4: Oh my god? And then imagine each company might have

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Speaker 4: let's just say modestly six different investment choices which we

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Speaker 4: know is on the very, very very low end. So

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Speaker 4: you're talking it's almost like the number of combinations of

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Speaker 4: Starbuck drinks, right, what is that ten thousand? I don't know,

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Speaker 4: So it is overwhelming. And then the thing you find

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Speaker 4: out is it's mostly a sales army that is selling

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Speaker 4: these products. They're going into classrooms, they're going into staff lounges,

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Speaker 4: they're providing so called free lunch. And so now we're

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Speaker 4: like three four years from this encounter, and I'm getting

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Speaker 4: angry and angrier because I'm sitting in my staff lounge

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Speaker 4: and I'm hearing my colleagues say, oh, my guy or

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Speaker 4: my woman, Oh yeah, I'm all set up. And now

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Speaker 4: I was a little bit savvy. I could ask questions,

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Speaker 4: what do you know what you're paying in fees? Oh,

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Speaker 4: there's no fees, right, That's like the funny thing. As

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Speaker 4: soon as you hear that, you know, the BS detector

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Speaker 4: goes off. And so with one colleague, I said, well,

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Speaker 4: I can almost bet my life that you're paying some

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Speaker 4: type of fee. Why don't you your statement and I'll

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Speaker 4: take a look, And she did, and I was able

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Speaker 4: to show her where she was paying. I think it

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Speaker 4: was over two percent. Not only that, there was a

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Speaker 4: fifteen year surrender penalty. Oh my gosh, so she wanted

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Speaker 4: to move hers too. And actually, here's what's crazy. Vanguard

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Speaker 4: was actually available. So of those one hundred vendors, you

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Speaker 4: go down the list, oh my god, there's Vanguard. So

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Speaker 4: I signed up with Vanguard, and I admit I felt

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Speaker 4: kind of smug. I had yet to meet anyone at

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Speaker 4: this point in my district who had contributed to Vanguard,

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Speaker 4: because I had to open it myself. They had all

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Speaker 4: gone with the sales agent who had come to the room,

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Speaker 4: to their staff lounge. But this colleague I helped. She said,

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Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, you should put on workshops. So now

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Speaker 4: we're getting to like nineteen eighty ninety eight, ninety nine,

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Speaker 4: and the internet's becoming a thing. People are starting websites.

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Speaker 4: I mean, it was very very raw back then. And

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Speaker 4: I started four or three BIS with a fellow teacher

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Speaker 4: who's no longer in. And I have to tell you, guys,

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Speaker 4: I kind of think part of our secret sauce is

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Speaker 4: our name. We initially had an absurdly long name like

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Speaker 4: teacher financial Information dot com, and we just knew that

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Speaker 4: was a loser of a name, and my buddy and

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Speaker 4: I was really a perfect collaboration because he said, I've

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Speaker 4: heard that you want to have the name of what

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Speaker 4: you're doing in the title, So you want four to

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Speaker 4: oh three B. At the time was I had a

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Speaker 4: young child and we were reading a book called baby Wise.

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Speaker 4: I don't even know if that's a thing anymore. It's

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Speaker 4: this whole philosophy around raising kids, and so I think

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Speaker 4: that's what was in my mind, and it just seemed

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Speaker 4: to make sense. Four to oh three be wise, and

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Speaker 4: we think that's kind of a little bit of it. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: it works, It's so simple, and so we launched it

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Speaker 4: in two thousand and all of a sudden, a teacher

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Speaker 4: from LA who had been advocating for four oh three

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Speaker 4: b's before me, gentleman named Steve Shuloh, who I call

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Speaker 4: the godfather of four oh three B reform, he heard

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Speaker 4: about our website and he started promoting it, and then

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Speaker 4: he contacted me and said, hey, listen, there's a reporter

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Speaker 4: from US News and World Report coming out to LA

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Speaker 4: to interview me about the K twelve four oh three B.

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Speaker 4: I'll see if he wants to talk to you, and

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Speaker 4: he did. So we were living. I was living in

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Speaker 4: Orange County at the time. So he came and we

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Speaker 4: met at a restaurant, and you know, I think it

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Speaker 4: was just a little blurb in a story, but he

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Speaker 4: put our website four oh threebwis dot org, and all

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Speaker 4: of a sudden, you know, you could track your visitorship.

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Speaker 4: It started spiking. And I used to listen to this

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Speaker 4: NPR show called Sound Money. It was out of Minneapolis,

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Speaker 4: and again no podcast back then, so if you want

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Speaker 4: to listen to this radio program, you are at the

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Speaker 4: radio at the designated time, and I think it was

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Speaker 4: like eleven am on Saturdays. I would usually be in

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Speaker 4: my yard working on my vegetable garden, and it was

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Speaker 4: something I look forward to all week. So I emailed

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Speaker 4: them and I said, oh, I love what you guys do.

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Speaker 4: I would love if you covered the four oh three

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Speaker 4: b oh By the way, I have this website four

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Speaker 4: oh three be wise, and we were just mentioned in

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Speaker 4: US News and World Report almost immediately, probably like within

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Speaker 4: two hours. This is on a Saturday. They emailed me

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Speaker 4: back and they said, oh, that sounds like a great topic.

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Speaker 4: Would you like to be on our show in like

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Speaker 4: two weeks And immediately Guys, my fingers got moist, and

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Speaker 4: because of life nerves, I'm like, oh my god, I'm

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Speaker 4: going to be on this radio show. And so I

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Speaker 4: somehow survived, and boy did our visitorship spike so much

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Speaker 4: so that someone from TIA Kraf reached out to me

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Speaker 4: and said, hey, we love what you're doing. We've been

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Speaker 4: wanting to help reform the four h three BE market

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Speaker 4: in California. Guys, in California, we have this insane insurance

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Speaker 4: code from when Nixon was the president that says if

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Speaker 4: a school district offers one four to oh three B vendor,

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Speaker 4: they have to open it up to all vendors. That's

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Speaker 4: why we had one hundred vendors. That's why LA had

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Speaker 4: two one hundred and fifty vendors. Can you imagine aggregating

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Speaker 4: that money?

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Speaker 1: Bad laws essentially create a terrible system.

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Speaker 4: It's incentives, right, people respond to incentives. You're going to

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Speaker 4: allow two hundred and fifty vendors? Think of all the

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Speaker 4: sales agents. It was insane. It's a little bit better now.

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Speaker 4: So we got involved with TIA Craft to push this

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Speaker 4: legislative effort and I'm so naive. I'm like, who could

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Speaker 4: be against this? Well, I'll tell you what a one

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Speaker 4: hundred million billion dollar industry. These set of guns bought

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Speaker 4: the domain name four oh threebis dot net, which I

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Speaker 4: now own, But they bought that and they had the

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Speaker 4: opposite message.

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Speaker 1: So dirty, it was so dirty, especially with so hard.

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Speaker 1: It's a labor of love. It's passionate, it's it's it's

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Speaker 1: looking over individual teachers, your friends who you work with

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Speaker 1: their statements, and then it turns into this mission that's

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Speaker 1: not profit oriented to educate people. I'm curious. I want

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Speaker 1: to talk. We want to talk a lot about four

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Speaker 1: or three bees and get into kind of some of

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Speaker 1: the nitty gritty, but I want to zoom out real quick.

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Speaker 1: I want to hear you wrote a book called Teach

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Speaker 1: and Retire Rich, which sounds like an oxymoron. Most teachers

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Speaker 1: aren't like, oh, what's the greatest path to wealth. Let

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Speaker 1: me go into K through twelve education. But like you know,

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Speaker 1: and you mentioned the pension. A lot of teachers across

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Speaker 1: the country they get summers off. They might get a

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Speaker 1: good pension, but yeah, talk to me about the smaller paycheck.

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Speaker 1: Can teachers retire comfortably with the right know how and

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Speaker 1: the right follow through? Why do you believe that teachers

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Speaker 1: can retire wealthy.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, we need to start with the definition of rich.

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Speaker 4: Now if you're talking about having like an island house

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Speaker 4: and fifteen cars. No, When I think about teaching, I

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Speaker 4: think of the intrinsic rewards. While it is an unbelievably exhausting,

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Speaker 4: difficult job that has only got harder, I believe the

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Speaker 4: job today is almost twice as hard as it is

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Speaker 4: that when I was teaching. There is you are the

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Speaker 4: target on so many fronts. You've got email. It is

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Speaker 4: a very difficult job. I could only do it for

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Speaker 4: twelve years. But I've already talked about it. We've touched

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Speaker 4: on it. You have a pension. Not many professions provide

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Speaker 4: a pension anymore, and you have not one but two

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Speaker 4: to find contribution plans similar to the four to oh

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Speaker 4: one K two four to one K like retirement plans

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Speaker 4: the four oh three B and the four to fifty

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Speaker 4: seven B. And again, I think teacher salaries should be

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Speaker 4: much higher, there is no doubt about that. But if

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Speaker 4: you can be diligent with starting a four oh three

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Speaker 4: B early in your career, assuming you've got good choices,

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Speaker 4: and that's not always the case, and that's what our

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Speaker 4: mission is with you four oh three B. Wise, we're

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Speaker 4: now a nonprofit dot org and we'll probably get into that.

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Speaker 4: But you have your pension, you have your four oh

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Speaker 4: three B. You can also do a four to fifty

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Speaker 4: seven B. But my message to any educator listening is,

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Speaker 4: especially young ones, start with the wroth Ira. The reason

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Speaker 4: is you get to have a low cost company like

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Speaker 4: a Vanguard, a Fidelity. These are the companies we want

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Speaker 4: teachers to have in their four oh three B and

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Speaker 4: four fifty seven B, and often they don't and they

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Speaker 4: have to fight to get those at it. And again

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Speaker 4: that's what our website's about. But I would say anyone

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Speaker 4: listening at a minimum have a roth Ira to start then.

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Speaker 1: So even even just a roth Ira at a low

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Speaker 1: cost provider that you have maxed out over a working

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Speaker 1: lifetime in combo with the pensions, that in and of

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Speaker 1: itself can be set you up for a significantly NXE retirement.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Well, not to mention too, just the ability to contribute

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Speaker 3: both to a four to three B and a four

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Speaker 3: to fifty seven maxing both of those out having separate,

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Speaker 3: separate contribution limits. But it's interesting too. I guess Dan,

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Speaker 3: like you're you're talking. I feel like we can have

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Speaker 3: a whole conversation about how teaching has become harder. I

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Speaker 3: feel like we could have a whole discussion about like

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Speaker 3: social media and parents maybe seeming like that they're on

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Speaker 3: your side, but advocating for their students, for the kids,

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Speaker 3: it's yeah, incredibly difficult. And because of that, it seems

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Speaker 3: like most teachers, they don't stick with a profession, yes, right,

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Speaker 3: like like much less.

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Speaker 2: With a specific school district.

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Speaker 3: How should the different stats out there about teachers leaving

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Speaker 3: the profession impact, you know, how it is that they

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Speaker 3: approach their investments. Should it be more of a let's

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Speaker 3: focus on an individual, my individual contributions and being able

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Speaker 3: to have my retirement essentially migrate with me, no matter

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Speaker 3: what industry I'm in, no matter what job I should have.

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Speaker 4: Well, you've just touched on an issue that's gotten even

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Speaker 4: more challenging in the wake of COVID, and that is

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Speaker 4: teacher attrition. And when I was a teacher, you know,

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Speaker 4: five the five year mark was the big one many

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Speaker 4: I think it was forty percent. I think was the

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Speaker 4: statistic I recall from my time teaching that people left

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Speaker 4: the profession, and I would guess it's even a little

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Speaker 4: bit higher now. So again I'm not trying to get

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Speaker 4: people out of the classroom. I always say that when

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Speaker 4: we talk on this topic. But if you're a first

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Speaker 4: year teacher, you know have that roth IRA for sure.

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Speaker 4: Because it's so flexible. It's not tied to your employer,

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Speaker 4: so if you leave your employer, you don't have to

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Speaker 4: do anything with it. You can keep doing that. But

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Speaker 4: let's say you start teaching, you think you're going to

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Speaker 4: do it for a while or not even sure. I

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Speaker 4: would say do a four to fifty seven B first.

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Speaker 4: And the reason is it has this huge advantage over

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Speaker 4: to the four oh three B. One. There's a little

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Speaker 4: bit more fiduciary protection than afforded in a four to

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Speaker 4: oh three B see the four oh three B. The

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Speaker 4: reason it's so awful is it's not subject to ARISSA,

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Speaker 4: the Federal Employee Retirement Income Security Act. That the four

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Speaker 4: to oh win K is. The four to win K

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Speaker 4: employer who offered the terrible products that a K twelve

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Speaker 4: employer does would be sued. But because the K twelve

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Speaker 4: four to oh three B governmental four oh three b's

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Speaker 4: fall outside of Arisa, they are awful. Forty seven b's

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Speaker 4: have two advantages. There's a little bit more fiduciar requirement.

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Speaker 4: It's usually at the state level. But the big one

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Speaker 4: is when you separate service, when you leave your employer,

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Speaker 4: if you have a four fifty seven B, you will

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Speaker 4: and you leave so you're no longer employed. You can

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Speaker 4: take that four fifty seven B money and you can

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Speaker 4: access it penalty free. You'll still owe taxes on it,

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Speaker 4: but you will not be penalized. With the four h

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Speaker 4: three B. You have to wait until your age fifty

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Speaker 4: five to do that. So if you're one of these

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Speaker 4: fire people and you think you might want to retire

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Speaker 4: at fifty forty five, and you're an educator, maximize the

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Speaker 4: four fifty seven B. If you're one of these people,

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Speaker 4: aren't sure you're going to stay in the profession, and

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Speaker 4: you already maximize your wrath, do the four fifty seven

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Speaker 4: B again, assuming you've got a decent vendor.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that too many teachers avoid investing in

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Speaker 1: these accounts because they're assuming they're going to work for

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Speaker 1: thirty years and get that sweet pension, and they're like,

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Speaker 1: I don't need to and plus I mean, let me

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Speaker 1: be honest, we touched on the fact that pays not incredible,

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Speaker 1: So our teachers just less likely to invest because they're

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Speaker 1: like resting on their laurels of that pension. And then

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Speaker 1: the teachers who don't invest for ten twelve years and

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Speaker 1: then leave that profession and their pension is not nearly

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Speaker 1: as good as they thought it was going to be

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Speaker 1: or potentially non existent, then they're like, at the biggest disadvantage.

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Speaker 1: It's like going to college for four years but not

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Speaker 1: getting the degree, getting a degree to pay for it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. No, it's such a good question, and it's a

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Speaker 4: good comparison. And what makes it even worse in a

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Speaker 4: state like California is you don't contribute to Social Security

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Speaker 4: And many teachers don't even know this. You know. We

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Speaker 4: do these free zoom events once once a month where

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Speaker 4: we call it office hours, where we take questions for

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Speaker 4: an hour, and my partner is a fiduciary advisor, and

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Speaker 4: so I always joke it's actually not us taking questions,

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Speaker 4: it's him, because he's so good. But we find a

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Speaker 4: lot of people who attend these say, oh, I left

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Speaker 4: teaching and I found out I hadn't been contributing to

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Speaker 4: social Security for all those years teaching. So I think

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Speaker 4: there's about a dozen a dozen states where that's not

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Speaker 4: the case. So I don't know, you know, teacher by teacher,

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Speaker 4: it's only anecdotal. What I will say is school districts

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Speaker 4: are not teaching teachers about their retirement plans. Our dream

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Speaker 4: is that every school district would put on an unbiased

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Speaker 4: retirement plan workshop that says, here's your pension, here's how

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Speaker 4: it works, here's the four oh three B, here's the

432
00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:29,200
Speaker 4: four fifty seven. But what's happening is sometimes the vendors,

433
00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:32,280
Speaker 4: the high cost vendors like Equitable, one of the worst

434
00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:35,440
Speaker 4: of the worst, they have somehow made inroads with school

435
00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:40,080
Speaker 4: districts and they're putting on so called financial workshops, often

436
00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:43,160
Speaker 4: at new teacher orientations. They were doing this at San

437
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:47,120
Speaker 4: Francisco Unified. I had a friend of a friend who

438
00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:49,639
Speaker 4: worked there and she told me this is what was happening.

439
00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:51,280
Speaker 2: A school of fish. Man.

440
00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:51,760
Speaker 1: It is.

441
00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:54,840
Speaker 4: It's almost it's frankly, it's worse than doing nothing at all,

442
00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:58,000
Speaker 4: or they'll have a benefits fair and who has who

443
00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:00,600
Speaker 4: has booths? So something we do and I'll make this

444
00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:03,879
Speaker 4: offer to your audience. We put on three one hour

445
00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:07,320
Speaker 4: zoom sessions. We will do it for any school district

446
00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:09,679
Speaker 4: in the country. I think we've already done about twenty

447
00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:13,640
Speaker 4: five to thirty so far this year. Yes, they're super popular.

448
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:15,879
Speaker 4: And what we hear again and again it ties back

449
00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:19,440
Speaker 4: to your question, is people saying I've been teaching twenty years,

450
00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:21,520
Speaker 4: no one told me about this. So I think a

451
00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:24,360
Speaker 4: lot of it is just they don't know what they

452
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:24,840
Speaker 4: don't know.

453
00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:26,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so yeah.

454
00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:28,440
Speaker 3: In a lot of cases though, it sounds like, yeah,

455
00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:31,080
Speaker 3: avoiding the four to three B altogether, maybe focusing on

456
00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:34,159
Speaker 3: the four fifty seven because of those fiduciary protections. Do

457
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:39,240
Speaker 3: you also have four fifty seven B wise, Well, we do, yeah.

458
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:42,159
Speaker 4: Because of our experience being you know, with those that

459
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:47,560
Speaker 4: nefarious approach all those years ago. And yeah, and the

460
00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:49,320
Speaker 4: big thing is, you know something I think one of

461
00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:52,280
Speaker 4: our best resources we have on four oh threebwis dot

462
00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:57,639
Speaker 4: org is we are attempting to upload every school district

463
00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:00,760
Speaker 4: four oh three B and four fifty seven B. Wow.

464
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:03,800
Speaker 4: What an undertaker? Yeah, undertaking. I feel like I'm gonna

465
00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:06,520
Speaker 4: need an undertaker if I actually.

466
00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:08,199
Speaker 1: By the end of it, actually you'll get an undertaker

467
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:10,320
Speaker 1: by Dan at Costco Casket just in case you know.

468
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:13,240
Speaker 4: Well by now right, that's a smart financial move.

469
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:15,760
Speaker 3: Well least, like you said, these big names are probably

470
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:18,639
Speaker 3: coming after you because you are keeping their.

471
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:21,159
Speaker 2: I don't want to call them.

472
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:22,960
Speaker 3: Their customers, but you know how it is that they've

473
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:26,399
Speaker 3: view they see them as no exactly, it's it's a

474
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:28,960
Speaker 3: way for them to to line their pockets. But we

475
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:31,040
Speaker 3: actually do we do have a lot more to get

476
00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:33,200
Speaker 3: to with you, Dan. We do have some specific questions

477
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:34,600
Speaker 3: about the four to three B. We'll get to all

478
00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:44,640
Speaker 3: that right after this. All right, we're back to the break.

479
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:46,480
Speaker 3: We're still talking about how you can teach.

480
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:48,159
Speaker 1: You can be a teacher, you can work in K

481
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:51,080
Speaker 1: through twelve education, and you can still retire rich, which

482
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:53,040
Speaker 1: is I think a great message and not one that

483
00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:56,280
Speaker 1: most people think lines up with reality. But our guest,

484
00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:58,119
Speaker 1: Dan Honor has done a good job of filling us

485
00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:00,560
Speaker 1: in on why that is the case. But you have

486
00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:03,480
Speaker 1: to know the pitfalls to avoid, and we were talking

487
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:05,640
Speaker 1: about how kind of the foxes in the henhouse here

488
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:09,399
Speaker 1: when it comes to the retirement. The companies out there

489
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:14,240
Speaker 1: trying to lure teachers into investing with them. Dan you

490
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:17,160
Speaker 1: mentioned how I guess you had like one hundred plus

491
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:20,159
Speaker 1: options too, of places you can invest with your four

492
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 1: or three B. And it makes you think of why

493
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:24,280
Speaker 1: Matt and I like the store Aldi to shop back

494
00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:26,920
Speaker 1: because it's like there's two catchups or one like there's

495
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:29,919
Speaker 1: not much choice in Supermans. It's fine, right, yeah, And

496
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:33,280
Speaker 1: we know that it's star cheap because that's just what

497
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:37,000
Speaker 1: ALDI prioritizes. They don't prioritize lots of choice. So how

498
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:39,800
Speaker 1: do teachers How can they know if their four H

499
00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:42,240
Speaker 1: three B is a good one, if they have good choices,

500
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:45,160
Speaker 1: if they have solid options or not when it comes

501
00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:46,920
Speaker 1: to the investments that are being offered to them.

502
00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:49,600
Speaker 4: Well, that is the question we have gotten the most

503
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:52,320
Speaker 4: over the years. So we finally decided to do something

504
00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:54,240
Speaker 4: about it. And I would say two or three years

505
00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:58,359
Speaker 4: ago we started a database of K twelve four H

506
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:01,960
Speaker 4: three B vendorless. Now, guys, they are close to fourteen

507
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:06,160
Speaker 4: thousand school districts in the country. So what we've done

508
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:11,520
Speaker 4: is we've created something called the Rating Project, the Planned

509
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:14,640
Speaker 4: Rating Project. In what we do, it's two steps. We

510
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:19,000
Speaker 4: rate the vendors. First using a simple traffic light system

511
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:23,639
Speaker 4: red bad, yellow, caution green good. So we take about

512
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:27,639
Speaker 4: the fifty most popular four or three B vendors. And

513
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:29,960
Speaker 4: when I say popular, I don't mean good because most

514
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:32,880
Speaker 4: of them are bad, and we give them a color

515
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:37,199
Speaker 4: rating and the overwhelming majority of them are red. So

516
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:40,879
Speaker 4: then when we get a school district vendor list, so

517
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:43,840
Speaker 4: we will take a look at it. We will list

518
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:46,639
Speaker 4: all of the vendors and if they have a green

519
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:50,680
Speaker 4: vendor available, we will give a check. And to date,

520
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:55,360
Speaker 4: we have got over forty six hundred districts in our

521
00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:59,960
Speaker 4: vendor database. And because we've focused on big school districts,

522
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 4: we think that we have the data covering close to

523
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:06,320
Speaker 4: two million educators and we believe we have about fifty

524
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:10,080
Speaker 4: five percent of all participants. Now, there's a lot of

525
00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:12,840
Speaker 4: districts that are very small. So if you want to

526
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:16,360
Speaker 4: see if we have your information your school district's information,

527
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:20,600
Speaker 4: from the top of our homepage, there's a state you'll

528
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:24,680
Speaker 4: see the tool. You select your state and then it'll

529
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:28,919
Speaker 4: populate with the school district and you click that and

530
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:32,159
Speaker 4: if we have your information, you'll see the vendors, you

531
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:35,240
Speaker 4: will see an overall grade, you'll see a link to

532
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:38,679
Speaker 4: an explanation of the grade. And if you have a

533
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:41,840
Speaker 4: green vendor, a good vendor like a Fidelity, a Vanguard,

534
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:44,639
Speaker 4: that will be a green check. Now, if you search

535
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:47,800
Speaker 4: and we don't have your information, there'll be a prompt

536
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:51,159
Speaker 4: for you to submit the information. And all you need

537
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:53,439
Speaker 4: to do is just go on maybe a website at

538
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:57,040
Speaker 4: your school district or contact your benefits officials and say, hey,

539
00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:00,560
Speaker 4: who are our four or three B vendors? Guyschool districts

540
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:04,639
Speaker 4: make it so difficult. I spent too much time in

541
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:08,760
Speaker 4: my life looking at school district websites trying to find

542
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:11,399
Speaker 4: the four H three B information. It is maddening. And

543
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:13,680
Speaker 4: this sort of goes back to the question teachers don't

544
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 4: know because we make it so hard for them.

545
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:19,240
Speaker 1: What was it? Some of it seems like purposely hidden almost, Yeah,

546
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:23,480
Speaker 1: it's it's it's like hospitals who are supposed to federally

547
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:25,359
Speaker 1: I believe new law means they have to declare certain

548
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 1: prices on their website, and they just they put it

549
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 1: in like an unindexible spot. There's like they get paid

550
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 1: for that. We're compliant, but we don't want anybody to

551
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:34,199
Speaker 1: see this information.

552
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:35,879
Speaker 3: Well, I'm curious, like you're talking about some of the

553
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 3: different benefits fairs and how some like a player like Equitable,

554
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:41,400
Speaker 3: they might have the premier spot, like right when you

555
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:44,160
Speaker 3: enter in, they got the big table, the cool slanners. Yeah,

556
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:48,880
Speaker 3: the awesome swag because they can afford it. Because but

557
00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:52,160
Speaker 3: I guess I'm curious, are there other incentives? Like are

558
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:54,640
Speaker 3: there other ways that some of the different school districts

559
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:59,080
Speaker 3: are How are these bigger players, I guess swaying some

560
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 3: of these different school distric to go with them as

561
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:04,000
Speaker 3: opposed to something like a fidelity or a Vanguard, some

562
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:05,400
Speaker 3: of our favorite low cost options.

563
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 4: Yeah. Well, there's something called the Association of School Business

564
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 4: Officials asbo okay, which you know, again you work as

565
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 4: a benefits official. It's really nice to be connected to

566
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 4: a professional organization that could help you with the latest rules,

567
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 4: because the rules and regulations. I went to one of

568
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:28,720
Speaker 4: these events and it was held at Disney World, and yeah,

569
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:30,960
Speaker 4: I was a guest of TIA craft because I spoke

570
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 4: to some superintendents and a sort of small meeting about

571
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:36,959
Speaker 4: the importance of the four H three B and guys.

572
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 4: I was grossed out by the opulence in the just

573
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 4: gross amount of money there was, like ice sculptures, but

574
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:53,120
Speaker 4: even worse. Who were the main advertisers equitable? I think

575
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 4: American Fidelity. I think Security Benefit the worst of the worst.

576
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:02,440
Speaker 3: American Fidelity, by the way, no investments American Fidelity. They're

577
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:05,240
Speaker 3: the ones putting on the ice luge, and we.

578
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:10,200
Speaker 4: Call them American infidelity. So they are terrible. Yeah, so

579
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:12,400
Speaker 4: this is these are the things. That's how they're mined.

580
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:16,960
Speaker 4: And the NEA, the National Education Association, we are pro union,

581
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:19,000
Speaker 4: but when it comes to the four oh three B

582
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 4: most unions are awful. The NEA has what we call

583
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 4: an unholy alliance with Security Benefit. Security Benefit has a

584
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 4: product that has a five percent load. Shameful, shameful gentlemen

585
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:36,000
Speaker 4: that they're doing this. But some unions are good, so

586
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:38,000
Speaker 4: I don't want to say all, but that's a big

587
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:41,080
Speaker 4: national union. The ATC much better on this.

588
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 1: We talked and Dan, you know this quite well. And

589
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 1: this is something we talk about baking on the show.

590
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:50,240
Speaker 1: The fee that you pay dramatically is impacts what your

591
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:52,200
Speaker 1: nest egg is going to like in retirement. So if

592
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:55,400
Speaker 1: you're paying a five percent load, and that's on top

593
00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 1: of an annual fee, a fun fee, you might have

594
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 1: less than half as much in retirement with the fee

595
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:03,520
Speaker 1: that large, is my guest. I mean, I'm sure you

596
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:04,240
Speaker 1: know the numbers on that.

597
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:04,520
Speaker 2: Yeah.

598
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:07,360
Speaker 4: Absolutely, you're already like negative seven in the hole, right,

599
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 4: five five percent to the load and then two percent

600
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:13,960
Speaker 4: in fees. Man, that makes a difference over time.

601
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 2: Yeah.

602
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:17,120
Speaker 3: So let's say some of the logs on and they're

603
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:19,760
Speaker 3: you know, they're looking up their district. They don't see

604
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:22,240
Speaker 3: it up there. You solicit them for the name of

605
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 3: their providers, so that maybe y'all can do some more digging.

606
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:28,200
Speaker 3: But for the other individuals, individuals out there, is that

607
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 3: what they should be looking at? Are they looking at

608
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 3: their annual fees? You mentioned earlier some of the surrender fees,

609
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:37,840
Speaker 3: some of the surrender charges that accompany these different planes.

610
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:39,280
Speaker 2: As well, right, and oh they're terrible.

611
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:41,760
Speaker 3: I guess what are some of those factors that folks

612
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:43,920
Speaker 3: should be looking out for as they're trying to evaluate

613
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:45,520
Speaker 3: on their own whether or not they've got a good

614
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:46,360
Speaker 3: four or three B or not.

615
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:50,320
Speaker 4: Well, you mentioned the f word, right, fees And it

616
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:53,840
Speaker 4: is very difficult to find the fees because these these

617
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:56,960
Speaker 4: documents are just insanely.

618
00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:57,959
Speaker 2: Long and they're legallyes.

619
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 4: Basically, what I would say is, go to our homepage,

620
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:05,480
Speaker 4: and at the top you will see our district rating tool.

621
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 4: How good or bad are your district's four h three

622
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 4: B four fifty seven B vendors. Click that and what

623
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:17,160
Speaker 4: you're gonna see are a list in boxes green, yellow,

624
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:21,320
Speaker 4: and red. Ignore all the red. See if you've got

625
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:24,080
Speaker 4: the green or yellow. You're gonna want to look at that.

626
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:27,600
Speaker 4: And there's a little info button and if you hit that,

627
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 4: it'll show why these are considered good vendors. You know,

628
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:35,200
Speaker 4: you don't have to use a salesperson, there's no surrendered charges,

629
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 4: there's no revenue share. You can get index funds for

630
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 4: under zero point two percent. Those are the metrics you

631
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:46,600
Speaker 4: want to pay attention to when selecting nice who to

632
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:47,160
Speaker 4: invest with.

633
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:49,760
Speaker 1: Okay, let's say there's a teacher listening out there, or

634
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:52,000
Speaker 1: a friend who knows somebody who's teached been a teacher

635
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 1: for a decade or longer, and they've been investing in

636
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 1: their four or three B and they're starting to scratch

637
00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:58,880
Speaker 1: their head. Oh my gosh, what have I been investing in?

638
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 1: I don't think I have being fidelity. Maybe I'm investing

639
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:05,959
Speaker 1: in a way that's really bad. Maybe I am investing

640
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:09,640
Speaker 1: in one of these red companies. You mentioned surrender charges

641
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:12,280
Speaker 1: being a reality. What do teachers need to know if

642
00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 1: they have been investing in their four or three v

643
00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 1: regularly before they try to pull their money out of

644
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:19,040
Speaker 1: that red investment, if they look it up on your

645
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:21,560
Speaker 1: website before they make any changes, Like, how do they

646
00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:22,240
Speaker 1: know how to proceed.

647
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 4: It's such a good question, and it's heartbreaking because we'll

648
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:28,920
Speaker 4: hear from teachers that say something in along lines of

649
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 4: I thought I was doing the right thing. I thought

650
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:35,840
Speaker 4: I was ensuring my financial future. I thought this person

651
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:38,600
Speaker 4: was endorsed by the school district. Why would the school

652
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:42,840
Speaker 4: district let someone from Equitable come onto my campus if

653
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 4: this was not a quality vendor, Folks, I don't know

654
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:46,680
Speaker 4: if you know this or not. A couple of years ago,

655
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 4: Equable got fined fifty million dollars by the SEC for

656
00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:55,480
Speaker 4: hiding certain fees. Why any school district in the country

657
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:59,320
Speaker 4: would continue to allow that company to sell to their

658
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:04,479
Speaker 4: most valuable resource employees is beyond me. I think it's malpractice.

659
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:08,319
Speaker 4: So that what we always say to these teachers. First

660
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 4: of all, it's not your fault. You didn't know what

661
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 4: you didn't know, but now you do. You've got a

662
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:18,080
Speaker 4: couple options. Here's the best option. Stop contributing. You have

663
00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:21,360
Speaker 4: to go fill out a new salary reduction agreement. So

664
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 4: you go to your benefits office, fill out it out

665
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 4: a new salary reduction agreement. This just directs how much

666
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:32,960
Speaker 4: money per paycheck into what company? Zero that out? Hopefully

667
00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:36,080
Speaker 4: you have one of the green vendors available. So let's

668
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 4: take the good scenario.

669
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:37,600
Speaker 2: First.

670
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:42,279
Speaker 4: Look, you have Fidelity available, and increasingly they are being

671
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:48,080
Speaker 4: added to vendorless. Go ahead, contact Fidelity. Your district should

672
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:50,680
Speaker 4: have that information. You have to do it yourself. You

673
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:53,879
Speaker 4: know you're not going to use a financial salesperson for this.

674
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 4: You do it yourself. Very simple process. You open an account,

675
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:01,839
Speaker 4: you go back to your school district, you sign a

676
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:05,359
Speaker 4: new sire reduction agreement. You choose Fidelity. Let's say it's

677
00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:09,720
Speaker 4: two hundred dollars per paycheck. Okay, you've solved half your problem.

678
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:13,359
Speaker 4: What do you do with the existing four h three

679
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:17,040
Speaker 4: B If it's one of these red vendors, guys, chances

680
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:20,320
Speaker 4: are there's going to be a surrender penalty, and even worse,

681
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:24,640
Speaker 4: companies like an Equitable have something called rolling surrender charges.

682
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:26,560
Speaker 4: So because a.

683
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:28,880
Speaker 1: Lot so not just one penalty. It's like a penalty,

684
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:30,040
Speaker 1: like a recurring penalty.

685
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:31,920
Speaker 4: Well, so what it is is typically if you've been

686
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:34,719
Speaker 4: contributing for five to seven years, you can move that

687
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:37,440
Speaker 4: money penalty free. And a lot of people will say, Oh,

688
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 4: I've been contributing for ten years, so this is great,

689
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:42,640
Speaker 4: all my money is not subject to a penalty. Well

690
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:46,800
Speaker 4: that's not the case. Every new contribution to Equitable starts

691
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:51,080
Speaker 4: like a seven year window, so that contribution June first

692
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:53,640
Speaker 4: or whatever, at the beginning of the month, it's locked in.

693
00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 4: So what you want to do is you want to

694
00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:59,319
Speaker 4: contact Equitable and say, if I take my money out,

695
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 4: how much of it is subject to penalty. So let's

696
00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:04,480
Speaker 4: say they say, you know, let's let's say you have

697
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:07,200
Speaker 4: twenty five thousand dollars and they say ten thousand is

698
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:12,319
Speaker 4: move the fifteen thousand dollars to Fidelity. And this is

699
00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:15,319
Speaker 4: not an easy process. This is where probably our most

700
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:18,600
Speaker 4: valuable resource comes in. I'm not a big Facebook fan,

701
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:20,840
Speaker 4: but I will tell you the four oh three buis

702
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:25,600
Speaker 4: Facebook group is amazing. Guys, we just hit sixteen thousand members.

703
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:29,719
Speaker 4: The number one question how do I get out of Equitable?

704
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:33,520
Speaker 4: That is the number one reason people join this. So

705
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:36,319
Speaker 4: what that also means, though, is there are thousands of

706
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:39,759
Speaker 4: people in our group who successfully got out of Equitable

707
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:42,719
Speaker 4: or in the process of trying to. We have this

708
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:46,759
Speaker 4: amazing guy on our board, Dan Dues, who puts in

709
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:50,640
Speaker 4: three to four hours a day or more helping people

710
00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 4: get out of Equitable or American Fidelity. So I would say,

711
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:57,000
Speaker 4: as much as I love four oh threebwis dot Org,

712
00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:01,439
Speaker 4: go to our Facebook group three b wise Facebook group

713
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:03,560
Speaker 4: and you have to answer three questions. Do you sell

714
00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:06,480
Speaker 4: financial products? And it better be no. Are you an

715
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 4: education if not, why are you interested in this? And

716
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 4: how did you hear about us? So once you do that,

717
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 4: we'll approve you because it is very overwhelming to try

718
00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:19,960
Speaker 4: to do this stuff yourself. Also, under our education section

719
00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:23,520
Speaker 4: on four oh three B WISE, we have three main sections.

720
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:27,840
Speaker 4: We have education, advocacy, and community. Go to the education

721
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:31,600
Speaker 4: tab and you'll see stories on how to get out

722
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:33,840
Speaker 4: of a four h three B. If you go to

723
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:38,400
Speaker 4: our homepage, it's the top story under education. Stuck in

724
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:41,080
Speaker 4: a bad four oh three B Click that. So we've

725
00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:44,920
Speaker 4: got web resources and we've got the Facebook group to

726
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:45,680
Speaker 4: help you get out.

727
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:48,719
Speaker 1: Now, let's does it ever make financial sense by the way,

728
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:50,879
Speaker 1: to pay a surrender feed so you can get out

729
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:51,920
Speaker 1: of high cost investments.

730
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:54,960
Speaker 4: So my partner Scott has done some sort of data

731
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:59,480
Speaker 4: digging on this, and there's sort of like a break

732
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:03,359
Speaker 4: even amount that you want to just rip that band

733
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:07,600
Speaker 4: aid off, And I forget exactly what that is. I

734
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:09,680
Speaker 4: don't know if you maybe like five or six thousand,

735
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:12,480
Speaker 4: just do it. But I also hear from people that

736
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 4: say the following, I am so pissed off. I don't

737
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:19,000
Speaker 4: want that company to have my money because I'm twenty

738
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:21,120
Speaker 4: five years old or thirty years old. I'm going to

739
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:23,759
Speaker 4: teach twenty more years. I'm going to make it up.

740
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:26,200
Speaker 4: So in many cases it's worth it. But I'm not

741
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:31,360
Speaker 4: a financial advisor. Every situation is personal. But everybody listening

742
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:34,040
Speaker 4: to this who decides to go down this road, be

743
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:38,399
Speaker 4: loud with your school district and say, why are you

744
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:41,799
Speaker 4: subjecting us to this? Because not only do I have

745
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:45,359
Speaker 4: to be an expert in history, math, what you know

746
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:47,239
Speaker 4: young working with younger children, Now I have to be

747
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:51,319
Speaker 4: an expert in you know, the financial services world, the

748
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:53,799
Speaker 4: byzantine world of the K twelve four or three B.

749
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:56,600
Speaker 3: No, it's true, I think one of the solutions might be,

750
00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:59,760
Speaker 3: like you mentioned y'all's office hours, do you mind sharing

751
00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:02,279
Speaker 3: like is that the same? Is that the same hour

752
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:05,400
Speaker 3: every single month? Where can folks learn about that so

753
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:07,919
Speaker 3: that they could potentially talk with y'all and actually ask

754
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:10,320
Speaker 3: some specific questions, maybe give y'all for specific numbers to

755
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:11,479
Speaker 3: figure out that break even point.

756
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 4: Absolutely, what we usually do is we take July off,

757
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:17,200
Speaker 4: So our next one is August twenty first. If you

758
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:19,480
Speaker 4: go to the Hope page four oh three b wis

759
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:23,720
Speaker 4: dot org right in the middle under advocacy, you'll see

760
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:29,160
Speaker 4: August twenty first, live event. Click that register there and

761
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:32,920
Speaker 4: it's awesome. We all we often get like repeat people

762
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:34,560
Speaker 4: who just want to come in and listen, and so

763
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:36,840
Speaker 4: he has become a little bit of a community. Some

764
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:38,320
Speaker 4: people have big a beer glass.

765
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:38,880
Speaker 2: That's awesome.

766
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:41,960
Speaker 4: It's a fun thing. If you are fired up by

767
00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:44,520
Speaker 4: what I'm telling you, you want to get more fired up.

768
00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:47,600
Speaker 4: On our home page you can access a special short

769
00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:51,319
Speaker 4: podcast that we've created called learn by Being Burned. It's

770
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:53,560
Speaker 4: not me, it's not my partner Scott talking. We are

771
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:56,080
Speaker 4: in it a little bit, but it's teachers from across

772
00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:59,120
Speaker 4: the country talking about how they got burned, how they

773
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:02,840
Speaker 4: were sold the terrible plans, but then how they learned

774
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:06,440
Speaker 4: and how they're advocating change. Because we meet guys a

775
00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:08,880
Speaker 4: lot of the lone wolf in the school district. I'm

776
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:11,120
Speaker 4: the only one talking about this when I go to

777
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:13,120
Speaker 4: the school benefits office. They don't want to hear me.

778
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:15,880
Speaker 4: We say, you want to. This is a war, folks.

779
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:18,320
Speaker 4: I hate to use a bad metaphor, but you need

780
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:22,080
Speaker 4: more soldiers. The way you get more foot soldiers is

781
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:25,160
Speaker 4: you get them tuned into the problem and they will

782
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:28,200
Speaker 4: by listening to learn by being burned. Now you're going

783
00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:30,680
Speaker 4: to the school board meeting and it's ten of you,

784
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:33,640
Speaker 4: twenty of you. You're going to the district, it's ten

785
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:36,640
Speaker 4: of you, twenty of you, thirty of you. Be the

786
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:39,680
Speaker 4: squeaky wheel because it could meet half a million more

787
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:40,880
Speaker 4: dollars in retirement.

788
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:43,400
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I mean, like, what's the Superhero crew with

789
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:47,120
Speaker 1: Superman and all those guys called the Justice League? Yeah, yeah,

790
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:50,200
Speaker 1: like Superman a team. Yeah, he's like awesome, but he

791
00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:52,440
Speaker 1: can't do it all by himself either. He's the help

792
00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:54,080
Speaker 1: of his palace. And so yeah, I think you're right, Dan,

793
00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:56,520
Speaker 1: Like you might be the superman leading the charge, the

794
00:40:56,520 --> 00:40:59,120
Speaker 1: first one to kind of sound the alarm and create

795
00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:00,640
Speaker 1: such a buzz around them. But we need a lot

796
00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:02,640
Speaker 1: of other people out there doing the same thing and

797
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:04,520
Speaker 1: helping in their communities. Speaking of which, we want to

798
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:06,680
Speaker 1: talk about advocacy. We'll get to just a few more

799
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:09,319
Speaker 1: questions with you on that topic when we come back

800
00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 1: from the break.

801
00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:19,279
Speaker 3: All right, we are back from the break speaking with

802
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:23,879
Speaker 3: Dan Otter, founder of four three bys dot org. And Dan,

803
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:27,600
Speaker 3: just before the break, you mentioned learned by being burned,

804
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:30,239
Speaker 3: and I think the ability for teachers out there to

805
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 3: get fired up because they might be thinking, yeah, like

806
00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:35,360
Speaker 3: I think that that's a problem in our district, but

807
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:37,640
Speaker 3: I'm not totally sure. I feel like when you hear

808
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:39,840
Speaker 3: some of these narratives like that, like that's the fire,

809
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:41,839
Speaker 3: that's the fuel that you need poured on the fire

810
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:44,040
Speaker 3: to really get you fired out righteous anger.

811
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 2: To make some changes.

812
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:47,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, and we've kind of been talking about four to

813
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:50,200
Speaker 3: three B stuff specifically, and let's just zoom out for

814
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:52,280
Speaker 3: maybe a second. I've heard you say that many teachers

815
00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:56,520
Speaker 3: choose their investments, like their funds, based on maybe some

816
00:41:56,560 --> 00:42:00,440
Speaker 3: of the different highlighted recent returns that those funds have experience,

817
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:02,799
Speaker 3: but you call that a fool's errand can you speak

818
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:03,560
Speaker 3: to that for a moment.

819
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:06,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, I did this myself when I first started investing.

820
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:09,120
Speaker 4: I would get Money magazine and what was the hot

821
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:11,719
Speaker 4: fund that was on the cover. I would invest in that.

822
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:15,160
Speaker 4: And then I started listening to someone named John Bogel,

823
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:18,960
Speaker 4: the late John Bogel, who I actually met. Guys, I

824
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:22,279
Speaker 4: got invited to the campus and I got to I'll

825
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:24,760
Speaker 4: just tell you about the experience real quick, because that's awesome.

826
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:26,480
Speaker 4: They wanted to talk to me about the four oh

827
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:29,200
Speaker 4: three B personal finance issues and when I got there,

828
00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:32,600
Speaker 4: and what's cool is the campus outside of Philadelphia in

829
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:36,480
Speaker 4: Valley Forge. The buildings, at least the original ones are built.

830
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:38,360
Speaker 4: They look like ships, so if you had like a

831
00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:42,239
Speaker 4: drone that's flying over it. Because he was enamored with ships, right,

832
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:45,680
Speaker 4: vanguard leading ship. And so anyway, I get this like

833
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:48,360
Speaker 4: agenda and it says, oh, meet with these people, these people,

834
00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:51,840
Speaker 4: meet with John Bogel, And I'm like, I'm going to

835
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:53,800
Speaker 4: meet with John Bogel because he still had an office

836
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:56,520
Speaker 4: there when he was retired. And guys, I gotta tell you,

837
00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:58,239
Speaker 4: it was so cool outside of his office. There was

838
00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:01,200
Speaker 4: a poster and it was a post or run by

839
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:04,960
Speaker 4: the financial service industry who were threatened by the introduction

840
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:08,760
Speaker 4: of index funds, right low cost way to invest. These

841
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:12,000
Speaker 4: guys tried to attack John Bogel, one of the greatest

842
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:17,960
Speaker 4: capitalists ever, by calling index funds an American. Think about that.

843
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:20,800
Speaker 4: So he's read about that poster. It was it was great.

844
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:25,160
Speaker 3: So yeah, it's it's anti American to think that somebody

845
00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:28,680
Speaker 3: should be investing just like everybody else. No, we're Americans.

846
00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:31,080
Speaker 3: We rise above everybody else. We're heading shoulders better.

847
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:34,040
Speaker 4: So bad, it's so bad. But you know, obviously he

848
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:37,640
Speaker 4: got the last laugh. So my philosophy is low cost

849
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:41,200
Speaker 4: index funds. Do that and forget about it. Go on

850
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:43,840
Speaker 4: about your life. Think about a teacher. You've got a

851
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:47,560
Speaker 4: pension that could be like, consider your fixed asset portion

852
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:50,719
Speaker 4: of your portfolio. And again I'm not giving financial advice

853
00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:52,840
Speaker 4: because I'm not a financial advisor, but here's how I

854
00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:55,759
Speaker 4: thought about it. When I was teaching. My pension is

855
00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:59,840
Speaker 4: my fixed assets. I'm going one hundred percent into the

856
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:02,880
Speaker 4: Vanguard SMP five hundred. I would probably do the total

857
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:08,000
Speaker 4: stock market index. Now, if I was teaching because you

858
00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:10,960
Speaker 4: know it's it's you know, it's more more stocks. But

859
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:14,680
Speaker 4: come on, folks, right now, there's three or four companies

860
00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:19,360
Speaker 4: that are driving the market right and I'm not smart

861
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:21,799
Speaker 4: enough to pick those four or five. I'd rather take

862
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:25,520
Speaker 4: the whole basket, as John Bogo always said. And eventually

863
00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:27,800
Speaker 4: every year there's going to be a few driving the market.

864
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:30,840
Speaker 4: And yes, the market goes down, folks, if you're young,

865
00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:33,839
Speaker 4: you should be celebrating the market going down. A couple

866
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:36,040
Speaker 4: of years ago it was down. I took my daughter's like,

867
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:39,440
Speaker 4: oh my my Vanguard fund is going down. I go, Lily,

868
00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:44,759
Speaker 4: you are buying shares on sale. Yes, as a guy

869
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:47,440
Speaker 4: that's fifty nine now who's lived through a bunch of

870
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:49,960
Speaker 4: ups and downs, I'm going to be able to retire

871
00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:52,879
Speaker 4: on the money I put into the market in the

872
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:55,520
Speaker 4: mid well, the late two thousands, right, two thousand and eight,

873
00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:58,719
Speaker 4: two thousand and nine, that's when I really made money

874
00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:00,319
Speaker 4: because I continued.

875
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:00,759
Speaker 2: To ap preach it.

876
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:05,000
Speaker 1: Dan Otter, I think the point too about teachers should

877
00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:09,359
Speaker 1: be investing again, not specific financial advice, but they have

878
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:12,720
Speaker 1: the ability to invest in a more aggressive manner because

879
00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:15,319
Speaker 1: they have that backstop of the pension that most people

880
00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:17,520
Speaker 1: don't have. So most people they have to be a

881
00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:20,360
Speaker 1: little more thoughtful potentially about their fun choices, especially the

882
00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:23,200
Speaker 1: closer they get to retirement. But teachers have the ability

883
00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:28,000
Speaker 1: to load up more on assets like stocks because over

884
00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:30,120
Speaker 1: the long haul those will perform better. So, especially if

885
00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:31,440
Speaker 1: you're a teacher in your thirties and four ers, you

886
00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:33,319
Speaker 1: might say, oh, I need to kind of mix this out.

887
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:35,920
Speaker 1: I need to balance. But you have that balance with

888
00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:37,680
Speaker 1: the pension. You might not need to do that inside

889
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:39,279
Speaker 1: of your actual investments in a four or three B

890
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:40,160
Speaker 1: or four to fifty seven.

891
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:43,440
Speaker 4: Absolutely, And the one thing we do here consistently, guys,

892
00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:45,000
Speaker 4: is that a lot of teachers say, I don't know

893
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:47,279
Speaker 4: how to do this myself. I can't do this as

894
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:50,880
Speaker 4: someone who taught. Teaching is complex. If you can teach,

895
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:53,719
Speaker 4: you can do this yourself. But let's say you are

896
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:56,000
Speaker 4: someone listening saying there's no way I can do this.

897
00:45:56,120 --> 00:45:58,680
Speaker 4: I feel like you have two options. Just get a

898
00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:02,719
Speaker 4: target date retired fund from a company like Vanguard, one

899
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:04,960
Speaker 4: of the green vendors. Pick a date in the future

900
00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:07,600
Speaker 4: you think you might retire. The farther you are from

901
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:11,040
Speaker 4: that date, the more it's allocated to stocks. It automatically

902
00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:13,640
Speaker 4: gets less risky the closer you get to retirement. I

903
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:16,440
Speaker 4: know you guys know all about that. If you're someone

904
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:19,719
Speaker 4: that wants to talk to someone, we are not against that.

905
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:22,560
Speaker 4: We're against you talking to the sales agents and the

906
00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:25,320
Speaker 4: staff lounge, the sales agent who comes into your classroom.

907
00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:28,920
Speaker 4: You want to use a fiduciary advisor, and we have

908
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:32,320
Speaker 4: a resource on that. You would click the education section

909
00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:35,719
Speaker 4: and then you under managing your four H three B.

910
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:39,040
Speaker 4: You would click a resource called working with a professional

911
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:42,640
Speaker 4: with a financial professional. It talks about you want to

912
00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:46,000
Speaker 4: use a CFP, You want your advisor to sign a

913
00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:49,960
Speaker 4: fiduciary pledge. We have a printable fiduciary pledge that you

914
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:53,959
Speaker 4: can use. We have twenty questions you should ask any

915
00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:58,600
Speaker 4: advisor you might use. And we also have organizations where

916
00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:02,160
Speaker 4: you can find a fiduciary advisor. X Y Planning Network,

917
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:07,000
Speaker 4: Garrett Planning Network, the National Association of Personal Financial Advisors.

918
00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:10,680
Speaker 4: There is nothing wrong with using a financial professional, but

919
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:14,279
Speaker 4: only use a fiduciary. Guys, you probably know this. Here's

920
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:17,799
Speaker 4: the big thing. They have to be a fiduciary. All

921
00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:23,040
Speaker 4: the time we're hearing about equitable salespeople with cfps who

922
00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:28,319
Speaker 4: are fiduciaries some of the time, big, big difference. You

923
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:30,399
Speaker 4: must be a fiduciary all the time.

924
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:33,839
Speaker 3: You got to make sure those incentives are aligned as well.

925
00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:36,759
Speaker 3: Stand on your site. I mean, y'all even say this,

926
00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:38,799
Speaker 3: you say that part of your goal for for three

927
00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:41,920
Speaker 3: of you wis is to not even exist anymore. Exactly,

928
00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:44,000
Speaker 3: like you are trying to help folks put me out

929
00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:45,839
Speaker 3: of business, which is eventually going to put you. It's

930
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:47,720
Speaker 3: going to like, yeah, it cause you to be fired

931
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:50,440
Speaker 3: and you can right off into the sunset, Dan, exactly.

932
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:52,400
Speaker 3: I mean that being said, We've covered a lot of

933
00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:54,560
Speaker 3: ground here, But do you have any final advice for

934
00:47:54,719 --> 00:47:57,080
Speaker 3: any teachers out there or folks who might who might

935
00:47:57,160 --> 00:47:58,839
Speaker 3: have teachers in their lives that they love.

936
00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:01,359
Speaker 4: Sure? Absolutely, and guys, thanks for the time to talk

937
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:04,280
Speaker 4: about this issue. You can probably see I'm super passionate about.

938
00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:07,359
Speaker 4: One thing I didn't mention is we're a nonprofit, so

939
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:10,960
Speaker 4: we sell nothing. Okay, we are blessed to be funded

940
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:14,560
Speaker 4: by Tim Ranzetta, who runs the amazing nonprofit. I don't

941
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:16,720
Speaker 4: know if you guys heard of next Gen Personal Finances.

942
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:19,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh, personal Finance classes across America are springing up

943
00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:20,120
Speaker 1: because of them.

944
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:23,359
Speaker 4: And right now, twenty five stays across the country are

945
00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:28,960
Speaker 4: going to guarantee personal finance to graduates of American high schools.

946
00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:33,160
Speaker 4: Tim's goal by twenty thirty is all fifty. He heard

947
00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:35,960
Speaker 4: about us from the series of articles in the New

948
00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:38,560
Speaker 4: York Times that we help the reporters with. He reached

949
00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:39,920
Speaker 4: out to me and said, what can I do to

950
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:43,560
Speaker 4: help you? This guy is amazing, So because of his generosity,

951
00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:47,640
Speaker 4: I do this full time. We sell nothing. If you're

952
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:52,040
Speaker 4: a teacher listening, this can seem overwhelming. It's like anything

953
00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:56,719
Speaker 4: else in life. Go slow, take your time, Spend a

954
00:48:56,719 --> 00:49:00,000
Speaker 4: little time looking at our website. Spend a little time.

955
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:04,400
Speaker 4: I'm going to the four H three B Wives Facebook group,

956
00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:07,520
Speaker 4: listen to some of our podcasts. Maybe come to our

957
00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:12,520
Speaker 4: next event on August twenty. First, begin to self educate.

958
00:49:12,719 --> 00:49:15,840
Speaker 4: Don't do anything until you're ready. If you're someone who's

959
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:18,200
Speaker 4: already in a four H three B and you find

960
00:49:18,200 --> 00:49:21,600
Speaker 4: out it's a red vendor, do not beat yourself up.

961
00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:24,799
Speaker 4: You did not know what you didn't know. Now, if

962
00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:27,279
Speaker 4: you listen to this podcast and then go open an

963
00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:29,640
Speaker 4: account with equitable I don't know what to tell you,

964
00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:34,719
Speaker 4: but be kind to yourself because no one taught you this,

965
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:39,360
Speaker 4: all right, listen to people like Matt and Joel. Okay,

966
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:43,279
Speaker 4: learn more about John Bogel. Okay. There are so many

967
00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:48,280
Speaker 4: resources out there and teachers, thank you for being teachers.

968
00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:50,440
Speaker 4: You are the real superheroes.

969
00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:53,440
Speaker 1: A lot more resources than when you started. Dan, you

970
00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:55,640
Speaker 1: had to fight, you know, they talk about you know,

971
00:49:55,680 --> 00:49:58,040
Speaker 1: our parents saying I had to walk to school, kill

972
00:49:58,120 --> 00:49:59,799
Speaker 1: both ways in the snow. That's what I felt like.

973
00:50:00,239 --> 00:50:02,000
Speaker 1: Podcasts in the Internet and stuff like that. And now

974
00:50:02,040 --> 00:50:04,360
Speaker 1: it's so much easier to arm yourself with the information,

975
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:07,920
Speaker 1: with the resources necessary, and in a much shorter timeframe.

976
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:10,840
Speaker 1: So at the end your your mission is laudable. Resources

977
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:14,440
Speaker 1: like yours are what are helping thousands and more than that,

978
00:50:14,560 --> 00:50:17,919
Speaker 1: really of teachers make smarter, wiser choices with their money,

979
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:20,880
Speaker 1: avoid fees so that they can build a healthy financial future.

980
00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:23,280
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for coming on the podcast today.

981
00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:25,880
Speaker 4: It is my absolute pleasure. Thank you for what you

982
00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:27,640
Speaker 4: guys are doing. You guys are killing.

983
00:50:27,400 --> 00:50:30,560
Speaker 3: It nice Joel Man, this has been such a great

984
00:50:30,560 --> 00:50:32,239
Speaker 3: conversation and I'm so glad we were able to have

985
00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:34,560
Speaker 3: Dan on to talk about. I mean to dedicate an

986
00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:38,319
Speaker 3: entire episode basically to teachers. Right, teachers aren't the only

987
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:40,360
Speaker 3: ones who have four to three bees, but they're the

988
00:50:40,440 --> 00:50:43,480
Speaker 3: I think the vast majority of folks who do have

989
00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:44,080
Speaker 3: four to three bees.

990
00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:46,360
Speaker 1: But plus, Dan's last name is one of the cutest

991
00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:49,040
Speaker 1: animals in the world. Right, otters, everybody loves honors.

992
00:50:49,719 --> 00:50:51,719
Speaker 2: But yeah, do you have a big takeaway from our

993
00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:52,399
Speaker 2: discussion today?

994
00:50:52,640 --> 00:50:55,440
Speaker 1: Okay, So I think my biggest takeaway there was so

995
00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:58,040
Speaker 1: much I learned a lot in this one, just kind

996
00:50:58,080 --> 00:51:00,839
Speaker 1: of not banking on your pension as a teacher, not

997
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:03,920
Speaker 1: resting on your laurels, and allowing that to be your

998
00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:07,399
Speaker 1: retirement plan in and of itself. Right, I think one

999
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:08,960
Speaker 1: because you don't know how long you're going to be

1000
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:11,279
Speaker 1: in the profession, like you might think you know you might,

1001
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:14,239
Speaker 1: but things always change. You never know where your life

1002
00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:16,279
Speaker 1: is going to take you. So don't bank on I'm

1003
00:51:16,280 --> 00:51:17,880
Speaker 1: gonna be here thirty years. I'm going to collect that

1004
00:51:17,880 --> 00:51:21,200
Speaker 1: pension if that works out, and you oversaved because you

1005
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:23,360
Speaker 1: also invested in a roth Ira in a four to

1006
00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:26,040
Speaker 1: fifty seven b Like, that's not the worst case outcome

1007
00:51:26,080 --> 00:51:29,400
Speaker 1: I've heard of worse problems. Yeah, but a worse outcome

1008
00:51:29,440 --> 00:51:31,600
Speaker 1: could be I banked on the pension, I didn't invest

1009
00:51:31,640 --> 00:51:34,240
Speaker 1: anything else. I left the teaching profession early, now starting

1010
00:51:34,280 --> 00:51:36,480
Speaker 1: from scratch again when it comes to retirement saving. So

1011
00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:40,040
Speaker 1: I just think that's like high value information. Do not

1012
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:44,240
Speaker 1: let the pension influence your lack of investing in other areas.

1013
00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:45,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, And so my big takeaway is going to be

1014
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:47,720
Speaker 3: for all the teachers out there, at the very least,

1015
00:51:47,719 --> 00:51:52,600
Speaker 3: make sure you don't have equitable or American infidelity as

1016
00:51:52,680 --> 00:51:54,560
Speaker 3: they like to call them. But because there are so

1017
00:51:54,600 --> 00:51:56,759
Speaker 3: many folks out there, but it sounds like that they

1018
00:51:56,800 --> 00:51:59,160
Speaker 3: have the vast majority of for three b's out there

1019
00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:00,120
Speaker 3: and some of the different.

1020
00:51:59,880 --> 00:52:02,280
Speaker 2: Days and so kind of a dirty corner on the market.

1021
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:05,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it makes it I mean, yeah, them beginning

1022
00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:07,800
Speaker 3: hit with like a fifteen million dollar fine for hidened fees,

1023
00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:09,680
Speaker 3: Like these are the kind of companies that we don't

1024
00:52:09,719 --> 00:52:11,160
Speaker 3: want to be doing business with.

1025
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:11,960
Speaker 2: It might be like a.

1026
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:14,200
Speaker 1: Lah Wells Fargo in the personal banking.

1027
00:52:13,880 --> 00:52:15,960
Speaker 3: Space, but but just with four to three bees and

1028
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:17,759
Speaker 3: so yeah, make sure to head over to four to

1029
00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:20,920
Speaker 3: threebwys dot org. If you're like, well, I'm pretty sure

1030
00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:22,640
Speaker 3: I don't have them, but I'm not sure if I've

1031
00:52:22,680 --> 00:52:26,360
Speaker 3: got a green or a yellow or God Forbid or

1032
00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:29,040
Speaker 3: red provider, But yeah, make sure to check that out.

1033
00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:31,319
Speaker 3: That way you can know whether or not you're paying

1034
00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:35,160
Speaker 3: something like two percent a year with fifteen year surrender

1035
00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:37,319
Speaker 3: rolling surrender fees.

1036
00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:39,480
Speaker 1: And considering the slough of companies you might have available

1037
00:52:39,480 --> 00:52:41,759
Speaker 1: to you. You might not recognize the name, you might

1038
00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:44,480
Speaker 1: not know what company you're investing in, and hopefully four

1039
00:52:44,520 --> 00:52:46,480
Speaker 1: or three b wis can help you kind of uncover

1040
00:52:46,560 --> 00:52:49,000
Speaker 1: and figure out whether the current plane you're in is

1041
00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:51,640
Speaker 1: good or bad, and then how to shift if it sucks.

1042
00:52:51,719 --> 00:52:53,719
Speaker 3: That's right, But uh, all right, buddy, you and I

1043
00:52:53,920 --> 00:52:56,680
Speaker 3: enjoyed a Blanche the Nashville.

1044
00:52:56,840 --> 00:53:00,200
Speaker 2: This is a beer by Yeah Zoo. This is a wit.

1045
00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:01,200
Speaker 2: What were your thoughts?

1046
00:53:01,480 --> 00:53:04,520
Speaker 1: Perfect summer beer? It was light, refreshing, it was had

1047
00:53:04,560 --> 00:53:07,359
Speaker 1: bright notes, had like like light peachy vibes.

1048
00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:09,120
Speaker 3: I thought I was gonna say lemony it was to

1049
00:53:09,160 --> 00:53:12,799
Speaker 3: me it was very acidic, kind of lemony, bright out. Yes,

1050
00:53:13,040 --> 00:53:16,600
Speaker 3: similar like some wits that you enjoy, and they're more

1051
00:53:16,640 --> 00:53:17,640
Speaker 3: like banana wit.

1052
00:53:18,160 --> 00:53:21,480
Speaker 2: This is more like light floral wits. But yeah, I

1053
00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:22,160
Speaker 2: certainly enjoyed it.

1054
00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:24,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, a little of that, like almost like new fruit,

1055
00:53:24,560 --> 00:53:26,200
Speaker 1: the light fuzz kind of vibe.

1056
00:53:26,360 --> 00:53:29,080
Speaker 2: Barely ripe. Yeah, yeah, that's what I was feeling. Looks

1057
00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:31,960
Speaker 2: like this is a collaboration with Brooklyn Brewery, so that's

1058
00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:33,520
Speaker 2: pretty cool. Nice. Have you ever had a beer by

1059
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:34,719
Speaker 2: Yazoo a half?

1060
00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:37,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're out of Nashville. Okay, I believe Yeah I

1061
00:53:37,239 --> 00:53:39,880
Speaker 3: said that, but you didn't hear me. But yeah, I

1062
00:53:40,239 --> 00:53:42,200
Speaker 3: might need to look into more of their beers. But

1063
00:53:42,200 --> 00:53:43,799
Speaker 3: I'm glad you were able to pick this one up

1064
00:53:43,800 --> 00:53:45,080
Speaker 3: that we're able to enjoy it today.

1065
00:53:44,880 --> 00:53:45,200
Speaker 2: No doubt.

1066
00:53:45,239 --> 00:53:46,920
Speaker 1: All right, but that's gonna be it for this episode.

1067
00:53:46,920 --> 00:53:49,719
Speaker 1: Will put links to some of this too, four or

1068
00:53:49,719 --> 00:53:51,480
Speaker 1: three buy some of the other things that Dan mentioned

1069
00:53:51,600 --> 00:53:53,400
Speaker 1: up on our website at how to money dot com.

1070
00:53:53,520 --> 00:53:55,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe where it is that you can register for

1071
00:53:55,520 --> 00:53:58,640
Speaker 3: their office hours come August twenty first, and we'll link

1072
00:53:58,680 --> 00:53:58,840
Speaker 3: to that.

1073
00:53:58,880 --> 00:54:00,719
Speaker 1: And if you've been listening and you're like, I'm not

1074
00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:03,880
Speaker 1: a teacher, but man, that sure sucks for teachers, We'll

1075
00:54:03,920 --> 00:54:05,920
Speaker 1: find a teacher you know, and maybe point them in

1076
00:54:05,920 --> 00:54:06,760
Speaker 1: the direction of this episode.

1077
00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:08,400
Speaker 3: I guarantee everybody out there and knows at least like

1078
00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:10,520
Speaker 3: a couple of school teachers. And I'm guessing you don't

1079
00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:15,040
Speaker 3: want them to be destitute and poor. They're old age,

1080
00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:17,640
Speaker 3: all right. That's gonna be for this one body until

1081
00:54:17,680 --> 00:54:20,479
Speaker 3: next time. Best friends are out, Best friends out,