Speaker 1: He's the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show, your war
Speaker 1: room for incenter news and draft analysis from deep within
Speaker 1: the confines of Cowboys headquarters at the Star in Frescope,
Speaker 1: Dallas Cowboys like CD Lambs and now your hosts. Brian
Speaker 1: brought us, David Hellman, Bucky Brooks, and Kyle Yeomans. I
Speaker 1: don't think it ever really gets old hearing Brian brought
Speaker 1: us exclaim in the open that they took him, they
Speaker 1: took him Cede Lamb at seventeen and twenty twenty. But hey,
Speaker 1: we're ninety nine days away from the NFL Draft. It's
Speaker 1: officially double digits, and we've got a ton of draft
Speaker 1: news to break down, as really the combine nixt yesterday.
Speaker 1: We're gonna talk it and break it all down here
Speaker 1: for you on the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show.
Speaker 1: So glad you're along with us here on this Tuesday.
Speaker 1: Hope you enjoyed a very fruitful and long weekend as well.
Speaker 1: Bucky Brooks joining us, David Hellman, and then of course
Speaker 1: the great Brian brought us who was in the open
Speaker 1: there and Brian, you're you're wearing the LSU. I got
Speaker 1: to watch a little trip. Brill Cox this week did
Speaker 1: a little film study on him. I know, even Dave,
Speaker 1: you're you're wearing some captain trade down gear. I can't
Speaker 1: really see what Bucky's wearing, but I know it's probably
Speaker 1: something that is along the lines of North Carolina. But no, no,
Speaker 1: he's got to be a real TV guy today, So
Speaker 1: he's got it right. He leaves this low paying job
Speaker 1: to go to a better paying job, is what it is.
Speaker 1: That makes a lot of sense. I would wear the
Speaker 1: NFL shield if that were the case. To Bucky, I'm
Speaker 1: right there with you. But I like the captain trade
Speaker 1: down shirt. Dave. I mean, you're rocking it at the moment.
Speaker 1: Does that mean you're officially on captain trade Doown's right hand?
Speaker 1: I mean, are you on the horse next to him?
Speaker 1: I mean, honestly, if you want me to be honest,
Speaker 1: I just was in a rush to get dressed, and
Speaker 1: my hair was a mess too, so I was like,
Speaker 1: what can I put on that will be company acceptable?
Speaker 1: So the draft T shirt and the Cowboys hat felt
Speaker 1: like a good way to go. It's funny, Dave, you
Speaker 1: know who you remind me of the way you dress
Speaker 1: John Snyder, same thing John Snyder would always come into
Speaker 1: meetings like he was just like you just got him
Speaker 1: out of a bar. You know, I was not in
Speaker 1: the bar aside, where's Michigan Baseball? Hat? A T shirt
Speaker 1: and flip flops and jeans, And he'd come into meeting
Speaker 1: and he'd knock you dead by setting the board up.
Speaker 1: Then we're just we're just four bros talking drafts. Adequate. Hey,
Speaker 1: at least he compared you to a GM and a
Speaker 1: good one at that, instead of maybe a hobo. So
Speaker 1: I guess that's a that's a huge upgrade for David
Speaker 1: Helmet already. But well, guys, we do have to break
Speaker 1: down some NFL combine news. And I mean, depending on
Speaker 1: who you ask, it's sad or it's good, or it's
Speaker 1: really it's really expected. It is probably the best way
Speaker 1: to say it is expected overall, because yesterday the NFL
Speaker 1: informed teams via a membo obtained by NFL Networks Tom
Speaker 1: Pella Sero that the NFL counting combine is officially changing formats.
Speaker 1: No in person workouts the combline will instead take place
Speaker 1: in the workouts at the combine will take place. I
Speaker 1: had different colleges pro days the interviews and psychological testing
Speaker 1: will be virtual, and there will be limited in personal
Speaker 1: medical exams, which we all know by this point and
Speaker 1: we've talked about it previously in other years that the
Speaker 1: medical examinations are the most important part about the combine
Speaker 1: for these front offices. But Bucky, this is the first
Speaker 1: time that you haven't been out of combine since what
Speaker 1: two thousand you were saying in the pre share twenty years.
Speaker 1: How is this going to change the way that this
Speaker 1: draft is ultimately done just based off of the fact
Speaker 1: that you don't have that evaluation week. Yeah, No, it'd
Speaker 1: be vastly different. I know they're gonna do some virtual
Speaker 1: interviews and dare take care of the metal stuff, but
Speaker 1: it'd be first time the guys will really go without
Speaker 1: the in person workhouse, and I know a lot of
Speaker 1: times we don't place a lot of stock in that,
Speaker 1: but it's the first time that coaches and some of
Speaker 1: the scouts will have an opportunity to see some of
Speaker 1: these top prospects. Because when you're in your area, you
Speaker 1: know about your area, but you may not know what's
Speaker 1: in other parts of the country, and so the exposure
Speaker 1: will be a little different. It will put a lot
Speaker 1: on these personnel departments to go out and to make
Speaker 1: these pro day visits. There was a time where we
Speaker 1: were seeing more people kind of scale back on some
Speaker 1: of the pro DA attendants. Well, now you'll see general
Speaker 1: managers and top personnel people criss crossing across the country
Speaker 1: to get this done. So it will change the evaluation
Speaker 1: process a lot, but the teams that really do their
Speaker 1: due diligence on the tapework won't be adversely effective by
Speaker 1: not being able to see these guys in person. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this is going to be a tough one for the guys.
Speaker 1: You know, we always look at the combine is a
Speaker 1: great way of gathering information and more importantly the medical information.
Speaker 1: You know, these scouts can do a good job of
Speaker 1: helping each other out when they go to these pro days,
Speaker 1: you know, and the colleges over the years have done
Speaker 1: a better job of scheduling them where they're in the
Speaker 1: area where you don't have multiple pro days overlapping each other.
Speaker 1: So the logistics and coordination of that is going to
Speaker 1: be huge going forward. Though, I do worry about the
Speaker 1: medical aspect of what's going to be about to happen Indianapolis.
Speaker 1: With the hospitals they have the MRI tubes, all those
Speaker 1: things that were available to these teams to be able
Speaker 1: to get their medical information, you know, is now going
Speaker 1: to have to go some other way. So maybe these
Speaker 1: teams will the medical departments will set up and as
Speaker 1: Bucky and Dave would know and Kyle is that, you know,
Speaker 1: the the teams do share medical information. These doctors do
Speaker 1: talk to each other and stuff like that. They're in
Speaker 1: groups as they work. So if you know, you get
Speaker 1: an organization where it says, okay, let's have the Texans,
Speaker 1: the Cowboys, the Saints, the chief maybe have a centrally
Speaker 1: located medical deal for them. Then they could share their
Speaker 1: information with all the other teams and then they could
Speaker 1: do it likewise around the country. So logistically it's it's
Speaker 1: gonna be difficult. But the one thing that these NFL,
Speaker 1: the Scouts personal departments have been able to do over
Speaker 1: the years is adapt to whatever change they have to make.
Speaker 1: I just this feels like this. I mean, I know,
Speaker 1: you know, the big news, it's big news that the
Speaker 1: format's changing, but it just honestly, it feels like another
Speaker 1: challenge to what they were already facing. Like it just
Speaker 1: it keeps happening to these scouts, like, this is going
Speaker 1: to be such an unprecedented draft process because, like you know,
Speaker 1: typically by the time you get here, you know, the
Speaker 1: area scouts have watched these guys for a couple of years,
Speaker 1: they've been on these school calls, they've talked to their sources,
Speaker 1: they've been to games. None of that has necessarily happened
Speaker 1: this year, Like you know, it's been harder to go
Speaker 1: to the games, it's been harder to have access to
Speaker 1: the college's facilities, it's been harder to get you know,
Speaker 1: get a good grasp on these guys other than just
Speaker 1: watching tape, which is nice, but none of that other
Speaker 1: stuff is as easy to get, like like finding out
Speaker 1: what type of guy a prospect is, knowing his background,
Speaker 1: having some familiarity with him. And every year, every year now,
Speaker 1: I mean to Brian's point, there are always guys that
Speaker 1: have medical issues crop up at the combine, that is
Speaker 1: a given, and then every year you can always tie
Speaker 1: a team. You know, the combine is like maybe where
Speaker 1: you make your first contact, where a team really decides
Speaker 1: that they're interested in They're like, all right, we're gonna
Speaker 1: do some private workouts with this guy. We're gonna have
Speaker 1: them to the facility. You know, Dak Prescott is a
Speaker 1: really famous one that was really where he first popped
Speaker 1: up on the Cowboys radar, and and it's just it's
Speaker 1: it's scary to think that they don't have access to
Speaker 1: any of that stuff this year and you're basically going
Speaker 1: to be going off of game tape and you know,
Speaker 1: whatever zoom meetings you can schedule, and that's just that's
Speaker 1: not a lot of information to go on. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think to me, also, the thing that is going
Speaker 1: to be interesting is there a lot of these players
Speaker 1: are going to facilities to work out to get ready
Speaker 1: that we're going to get ready for the combine. And
Speaker 1: you know, will the NFL allow scouts like Bucky Brooks
Speaker 1: to go on the road and go to these facilities,
Speaker 1: whether it's in Los Angeles, down in Florida, Tampa area wherever, Orlando.
Speaker 1: Dallas has a big workout facility where a lot of
Speaker 1: players go. You know, maybe that's the way that some
Speaker 1: of these scouts, the area scouts get around having to
Speaker 1: go to workouts and stuff, because you get these guys
Speaker 1: that'll hold these pro days potentially at these workout facilities.
Speaker 1: And if that's the case, maybe that'll maybe that'll alleviate
Speaker 1: some of the problems that they might have getting to
Speaker 1: the school as we get through the spring, you know, Runt, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I want to bring this up real quick because like,
Speaker 1: the combine kind of gets laughed at for a lot
Speaker 1: of things, right, they talk about the unnecessary work. But
Speaker 1: one thing that will come up is we won't have
Speaker 1: official measurements on anybody like that will be a huge change,
Speaker 1: and for teams that are really standardized in terms of
Speaker 1: you have to hit certain benchmarks to be considered on
Speaker 1: our team, like it changes. For so long we've heard
Speaker 1: voices talking about, well, I don't understand why don't they
Speaker 1: don't have laser times everywhere and scouts, old school scouts
Speaker 1: have always said because lasers aren't portable. My stopwatch is portable.
Speaker 1: That's why I go about my time because I can
Speaker 1: take that anywhere and I know what that is where. Now,
Speaker 1: without official times at the combine, without being able to
Speaker 1: see it, you are really beholding to what your area
Speaker 1: scout does in terms of time measurements and also the
Speaker 1: background information. If they're not experiencing they don't have contacts
Speaker 1: in the building, you will have some voids in your
Speaker 1: value wishing process because you really won't know this kid
Speaker 1: that you'd probably bring it in. And that's one of
Speaker 1: the biggest worries I think about this virtual process, Bucky
Speaker 1: and Brian you alluded to it as well. But I mean,
Speaker 1: there are one hundred and fifty schools that are hoping
Speaker 1: that players are going to get drafted from them. Right,
Speaker 1: there's not one hundred and fifty days until the draft,
Speaker 1: So all of these pro days that are going to
Speaker 1: be held virtually at these different departments, in different schools
Speaker 1: or across the country, and then there's gonna be extra
Speaker 1: pro days, like Bucky just mentioned about at these these
Speaker 1: workout facilities, and Brian talked about it in Dallas and
Speaker 1: in Tampa, in all these different spots. So how do
Speaker 1: you have that uniformity when you're gonna have probably a
Speaker 1: school pro day and then you're gonna probably have an
Speaker 1: annex pro day where you're gonna put these these scouts
Speaker 1: in these players on display again. But you've got to
Speaker 1: have those times and those measurements to be uniform because
Speaker 1: at the same time, like you said, Bucky, it's not
Speaker 1: going to be the same moving forward, No, it won't
Speaker 1: be the same, And you know, like it's already difficult
Speaker 1: enough to try and make some of these determinations, and
Speaker 1: a lot of times we want to put the h
Speaker 1: down by the time we get to the combine, like, hey,
Speaker 1: let your grade, but your grade and don't be impacted
Speaker 1: by the combine in terms of seeing a fast time.
Speaker 1: And maybe it makes you kind of see like an
Speaker 1: illusion when you're watching the tape. I think this will
Speaker 1: be challenging not only for the guys that played this year,
Speaker 1: but what in the world do you do with the
Speaker 1: opt outs? Yeah, so the guys who have opted out
Speaker 1: and you haven't seen in a year and a half,
Speaker 1: you have no idea what they look like. You don't
Speaker 1: have official times on them. I think it becomes an
Speaker 1: even scarier proposition at the top of the board to
Speaker 1: take some of these guys who haven't played, because you
Speaker 1: really won't know anything about them when it comes to
Speaker 1: standard protocols for evaluation that we've used in the past. Yeah,
Speaker 1: last night, guys, I was watching the Sanders kid, the
Speaker 1: defensive end from Cincinnati, and on tape, he doesn't look
Speaker 1: two hundred and fifty eight pounds, you know, but if
Speaker 1: you look at the measurables from the school and some
Speaker 1: of the things that you were able to gather. It
Speaker 1: says he's a two hundred at the eight pound player.
Speaker 1: And I just wonder how many other scouts are going
Speaker 1: through this right now where they're looking at this speed,
Speaker 1: they're looking at a height, they're looking at a way,
Speaker 1: and they're thinking, does that guy really look like he's
Speaker 1: two hundred and fifty eight pounds? And you know, you
Speaker 1: have to really you got a hope right now and
Speaker 1: a lot of these evaluations. Bucky brought it up. There's
Speaker 1: some teams that are measurable teams, you know, and their
Speaker 1: whole scouting process is based on measurables, and so you know,
Speaker 1: hopefully you know, number one, they can get the medical
Speaker 1: and number two, like Buck he said, you could get
Speaker 1: the height, way and speed. As long as the scouts
Speaker 1: have those things, I think their eyes will tell them
Speaker 1: what the type the player is, just as long as
Speaker 1: they have the measurables to put with the player. I'm
Speaker 1: telling you right now, don't don't put any stock in
Speaker 1: measurables that you're getting from a college. That that is
Speaker 1: a dangerous proposition, which absolutely, yeah, it's it's a small thing.
Speaker 1: But I was actually writing a story yesterday about some
Speaker 1: of the Cowboys dbs, and you know some free agent
Speaker 1: dbs around in the league, and I go, like, you
Speaker 1: know all the combine measurements. They're archived on the internet.
Speaker 1: Obviously you can go back and look at them, and
Speaker 1: that's what I use, Like, anytime I need to write
Speaker 1: about a player, I'm like, let me go find the
Speaker 1: combine numbers, because I promise you any team, roster, college,
Speaker 1: or pro is going to try to lie to you.
Speaker 1: And so it sounds like a little thing, but you
Speaker 1: think about the fact Dan Quinn loves taller cornerbacks with
Speaker 1: long arms. That should sound familiar from Christopher Shard's tenure
Speaker 1: in Dallas as well. Well, have fun getting the accurate
Speaker 1: measurements of heighten arms without without a combine. I mean,
Speaker 1: hopefully they can find a way to pull it off.
Speaker 1: But it's just another another thing that you have to
Speaker 1: worry about in a year that's full of them. Obviously. Well,
Speaker 1: and you've been open about the fact that the opt
Speaker 1: out scare you a little bit, and I'm right there
Speaker 1: with you. I think whenever it comes to a player
Speaker 1: who has not played in twenty twenty, this makes things
Speaker 1: ultimately tougher, like Bucky was mentioning a little bit ago,
Speaker 1: but what does this do for your comp a level, Dave,
Speaker 1: and trying to get these measurements and trying to figure
Speaker 1: out how these players are going to test whenever they
Speaker 1: haven't actually put film on the field in over twelve months.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't I don't have I don't know
Speaker 1: what's going to happen. But I have a solution. If
Speaker 1: I wasn't opt out, If I was an opt out
Speaker 1: and I was confident in myself, I would I would
Speaker 1: put together a real and send it around to these guys,
Speaker 1: Like you know, I'm thinking of my guy Jumar Chase
Speaker 1: at the top of my mind. Obviously, if I were him,
Speaker 1: I would put myself on film running the whole route
Speaker 1: tree at my training center. I would do a filmed
Speaker 1: way in, a filmed measurement, all that stuff. Like any
Speaker 1: information that I can get to a team, I would
Speaker 1: just send it around to every team in the league
Speaker 1: and be like, here's what I've been working on, Here's
Speaker 1: what I can do, Here's how tall I am, here's
Speaker 1: my arm measurements, blah blah blah. Especially you know, in
Speaker 1: the case of a guy like him. You shouldn't have
Speaker 1: anything in to hide anyway, So you know, maybe that's
Speaker 1: a way around it where you know, some of these
Speaker 1: guys can be you know, proactive and get some of
Speaker 1: that information out there to help teams out. I think
Speaker 1: they're going to be a lot of scouts that are
Speaker 1: very crafty on the way they do things I do.
Speaker 1: I scouts will not be denied. You know, you think
Speaker 1: that you're roadblocked here, you will figure out a way
Speaker 1: to go around that roadblock to get what you need.
Speaker 1: You know, that's your job, you know, and you know
Speaker 1: you don't want to you don't want to do anything
Speaker 1: illegal or anything like that or try and get in trouble,
Speaker 1: but you will do whatever you have to do. I mean,
Speaker 1: the story of Gil Brandt running a kid in a
Speaker 1: forty yard dash in an airport terminal is anything you
Speaker 1: need to know right there. That that is meet me
Speaker 1: at the terminal. I know you don't have an indoor facility.
Speaker 1: It's cold outside. I'll run. I'll mark forty yards off
Speaker 1: in this terminal and you can take off running and
Speaker 1: we'll get a time. So you know, you know, pull
Speaker 1: chalk on the end of a finger, doing a vertical
Speaker 1: measuring that off. You will do whatever you have to
Speaker 1: do to get those numbers for your organization. And that's
Speaker 1: the great beauty about being a scout is when you
Speaker 1: hear the word no, you say yes and you keep going.
Speaker 1: You know, Brian and thinking about that, and I'm sure
Speaker 1: at some point we will talk about the Senior Bowl,
Speaker 1: but you talk about the advantages that the kids will
Speaker 1: have next week, those that participate in the Senior Bowl,
Speaker 1: and they're able to kind of create that lasting impression
Speaker 1: on the eyes in the minds of scouts and evaluators
Speaker 1: that is going to carry significant favor. And I just
Speaker 1: believe that this year is unlike any other year where
Speaker 1: you don't get a chance to see guys play ball,
Speaker 1: and so private workouts will be important. But their limitations
Speaker 1: on private workouts and what you're able to do when
Speaker 1: some agents in recent years have kind of held back
Speaker 1: on exposing their guys to too many private workouts because
Speaker 1: if you get into doing a private workout, you're at jeopardy,
Speaker 1: and so it just makes it very, very challenging in
Speaker 1: the midst of a pandemic where you have COVID optouts
Speaker 1: or whatever, like the creamer rise to the crop when
Speaker 1: it to the top, when it comes to evaluators. But man,
Speaker 1: you're talking about so many obstacles and things that will
Speaker 1: prevent you from doing your job and doing it the
Speaker 1: way that we've always done it. I'm saying I'm saying
Speaker 1: this with tongue in cheek, though, I'll draft all the
Speaker 1: opt out players. If you guys want to take all
Speaker 1: the guys that played this year, I'll take all those
Speaker 1: opt out guys by the way that let them dropt
Speaker 1: to you, let them ball the best players. So yeah,
Speaker 1: you get you can take all these guys have played
Speaker 1: this year, all those opt out guys, gonna string them
Speaker 1: to me. I'll be just fine drafting those guys well,
Speaker 1: and you're bound to hit one or two of those.
Speaker 1: I mean, the draft is a crap shoot. Anyways, we've
Speaker 1: talked about that before. You it's it's you're trying to
Speaker 1: gather this information to make your guests a little bit
Speaker 1: more educated than it normally would in any certain circumstance.
Speaker 1: And Brian, you were talking about how these scouts are
Speaker 1: gonna have to get creative. I think there's gonna be
Speaker 1: to have to be creativity from the school's perspectives on
Speaker 1: how they're gonna live stream because Bucky's talking about crossing
Speaker 1: country and all these scouts going different spots and different
Speaker 1: schools all over the place. But at the same time,
Speaker 1: you want to limit your travel for the safety of
Speaker 1: your coaching staff and the safety of your scouting department. Well,
Speaker 1: the way you do that is live stream. So I'm
Speaker 1: asking you, Brian, do you expect to see live streamed
Speaker 1: events where scouts can set up with a monitor and
Speaker 1: watch these pro days virtually, maybe even multiple pro days
Speaker 1: at one time. Yeah. I think one of the great things,
Speaker 1: and this is credit to Bucky and what those guys
Speaker 1: do at the NFL Network, is when they go live
Speaker 1: to show workouts. I mean you could actually sit out
Speaker 1: and watch the workout and feel like you're getting something
Speaker 1: out of that. You know. That's that's the great thing
Speaker 1: about now watching the combine on TV. You could actually
Speaker 1: watch guys move, you could run back to what you saw,
Speaker 1: you know, all these things. There's ways of getting around this, uh,
Speaker 1: you know clearly, And I do believe that the schools
Speaker 1: are going to have to now depending on their rules.
Speaker 1: I mean, usually schools are very welcoming, They're like, hey,
Speaker 1: come on, we love to have you. They make the
Speaker 1: pro day a big thing. They have barbecues, they have
Speaker 1: you know, dinners, whatever. They you know, they try to
Speaker 1: do the best they can for their players and for
Speaker 1: the scouts, and you know, but now it's gonna be about, Okay,
Speaker 1: how can we take our TV production department? How can
Speaker 1: we take our video department and film these things. The
Speaker 1: thing we have to make sure of though, that there
Speaker 1: may be there one or two scouts. They're conducting the workouts,
Speaker 1: making sure the forty yard dash has completely measured the
Speaker 1: right way, making sure the three cones set up the
Speaker 1: right way, making sure the vertical jump is conducted the
Speaker 1: right way. You know, if I was, if I was
Speaker 1: running a department, I think this is what I would
Speaker 1: do once I knew the schedule. And I know, Dave,
Speaker 1: you're gonna hate my idea. I'm getting a mobile home.
Speaker 1: I'm getting a bus, and I'm just driving from a
Speaker 1: location to location to location, is what I'm doing. I'm
Speaker 1: putting three scouts in every bus. And you know we're
Speaker 1: gonna we're gonna make this trip around our area. You know,
Speaker 1: going to these schools is what we're gonna do. Well,
Speaker 1: Market in the parking lot at the stadium. You know,
Speaker 1: we'll stay there, we'll set up, we'll do the protest,
Speaker 1: we'll go to the next thing. But maybe it's just
Speaker 1: an easy way just to travel my guys going from
Speaker 1: school to school, but having multiple guys there to make
Speaker 1: sure that you cover the workout, like you completely need to.
Speaker 1: Why don't you just admit that you're an unrepentant junkie
Speaker 1: for a road trip. It's like, I love the road trip,
Speaker 1: you know, I love the road trip. But I love
Speaker 1: the fact that if they told me, if they told
Speaker 1: me I could do a workout at Miami, then I
Speaker 1: could go do a workout at Central Florida. Then I
Speaker 1: could go do a workout at South Florida. Then I
Speaker 1: could go to Florida State Florida. You know, I mean that,
Speaker 1: that's me. That's what I would love to do. And
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to think without my scouts having to
Speaker 1: travel through airports, you know, just drive them through that
Speaker 1: area though. But I'm yeah, I'm not driving an RV,
Speaker 1: Like who's d I'm driving the RV. I see yourself.
Speaker 1: You talk itself, like what we're going to do? Hey,
Speaker 1: let me tell you what this. You could. You could
Speaker 1: set this thing up. You could you could do film
Speaker 1: work in the back. You could get your notes together.
Speaker 1: One guy could drive, the others could work. You could
Speaker 1: set things up. There's a productive way of doing this
Speaker 1: that sounds miserable to me. That is that is Brian's
Speaker 1: Brian's dream in life is to just be the permanent
Speaker 1: driver on like an eighty hour road trip. And I
Speaker 1: do not understand it at all. Hey, I'm gonna get
Speaker 1: my area completely done well. Everybody else is not yet.
Speaker 1: Everyone else is scrambling around trying to travel restrictions. I'm
Speaker 1: driving my area and I'm just gonna stay in my
Speaker 1: little area and I'm gonna I'm gonna do a great
Speaker 1: job there. Guys, when these teams through this idea though
Speaker 1: you watch you heard it first year on the Draft Show,
Speaker 1: We're gonna see a bunch of bunch of RV film
Speaker 1: and media availability and things of a stable drive, and
Speaker 1: you can study these players, you never know. If Bucky
Speaker 1: wasn't so against it, I would just we would just
Speaker 1: expense it to Derek and get the Draft Show on
Speaker 1: the road and get all seven great idea. I just
Speaker 1: I just don't want to drive and so if you're
Speaker 1: gonna tell me we're gonna have a rock star bus
Speaker 1: and we're gonna do it like that, and I'm gonna
Speaker 1: have amenities and and all of those things, like right,
Speaker 1: but I have this this vision of a Winnebago where
Speaker 1: we're just all crampy and yeah, we're like, oh no,
Speaker 1: three weeks, that's what Brian wants. I've done it. I've
Speaker 1: done that. I could actually I could cook. I could cook.
Speaker 1: We could have Cajun meals all the whole time. This
Speaker 1: would be the best. Let's go. Sure, I'm right there.
Speaker 1: I'll be a co pilot, Brian. I'll be right there
Speaker 1: in the passenger seat. How about that? Oh man, Well,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna continue driving the bus here rather on the show,
Speaker 1: we're gonna take a break, and after we come back,
Speaker 1: we're gonna go into Twitter on the twenty a ton
Speaker 1: of good questions to get to, lots of prospects and
Speaker 1: of course some fallout from the NFL combine news and
Speaker 1: of course the Senior Bowl coming up now. Seek like Buck,
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Speaker 1: Is the Dennis Cowboys dot com Draft Show. Back here
Speaker 1: with the Dallas Cowboys dot com Draft show. The plans
Speaker 1: of a road trip continue to blossom here in the
Speaker 1: break and continue on here on a Tuesday morning, Glad
Speaker 1: you're with us, Kyle Yeoman's Brian brought us, Bucky Brooks,
Speaker 1: David Hellman with you here from our virtual SWBC Mortgage studios.
Speaker 1: It's time now for some Twitter on the twenty Twitter
Speaker 1: on the twenty, and of course the Cowboys having to
Speaker 1: keep a close eye on what's happening around the league.
Speaker 1: And that's what our first question has to do with.
Speaker 1: From Matt Thomas, he said, with the Deshaun Watson situation
Speaker 1: and the type of return he may bring in regards
Speaker 1: to what they should do with Dak in a possible trade,
Speaker 1: This is I just wanted to kind of put this
Speaker 1: out there, Bucky or actually looks, let David Hellman take
Speaker 1: this is talking about keeping it on on Deshaun Watson.
Speaker 1: We had to do that with the contract previously. But
Speaker 1: is there any way that picks and things like that
Speaker 1: could potentially come into play for the Cowboys and what
Speaker 1: they could do with Deck. We're talking about, like trading
Speaker 1: Dak to Houston for Deshaun Watson. Is that I don't
Speaker 1: know if it's directly talking about that. I think it's
Speaker 1: mostly just what the options are for Deck Prescott Well,
Speaker 1: I mean, I just those those things can't be related.
Speaker 1: I don't think unless you're like getting Deshaun Watson and that.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's my whole thing is, if you're gonna
Speaker 1: take on that kind of contract in Houston, why not
Speaker 1: just pay the guy that you already have. And I mean,
Speaker 1: and I've seen I've seen people suggest, you know, a
Speaker 1: straight up player for players swap. I doubt that's happening
Speaker 1: because Houston needs draft picks. Like the whole reason Houston
Speaker 1: would try something like this is because they have no
Speaker 1: draft capital. So trading straight up Dak for DeShawn just
Speaker 1: it doesn't make any sense to me because I think
Speaker 1: they're basically the same player. So you're getting rid of
Speaker 1: one guy for Dak, you still don't have any draft picks,
Speaker 1: and then the Cowboys are just in the same spot
Speaker 1: they were, which is paying a lot of money for
Speaker 1: a quarterback that not everybody's sold on. So I don't
Speaker 1: think it makes a ton of sense. I think it's
Speaker 1: far more logical to just pay the guy that's already here,
Speaker 1: that you have a history with. I think I think
Speaker 1: mostly as I'm reading this question again, I think he's
Speaker 1: talking about the value of Dak Prescott and the fact
Speaker 1: that he hasn't had the long term deal yet, and
Speaker 1: of course that's still going to continue throughout the offseason.
Speaker 1: Oh mostly mostly the value you could get from Watson
Speaker 1: and how that compares the Dak Prescott in terms of
Speaker 1: draft options and draft capital that you could attain if
Speaker 1: you're the Dallas Cowboys. I got you. That's my bad. Well,
Speaker 1: I think the conversation for a franchise quarterback, for me,
Speaker 1: the conversation starts for multiple ones, especially like you talk about,
Speaker 1: you know, that's that's what the franchise tag dictates. Anyway,
Speaker 1: if a players on the tag the um, then you're
Speaker 1: you know, you got to trade two first round picks
Speaker 1: to get him, So that's where it starts. I would
Speaker 1: probably try to get a little bit more, but it's
Speaker 1: hard to say for sure because these types of trades
Speaker 1: almost never happened. Like, when was the last time a
Speaker 1: franchise quarterback was traded in his prime? Bucky, Brian, You guys,
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's ever been done, Like I
Speaker 1: don't know if I don't know if you've ever seen
Speaker 1: it done at all. I think the Deshaun Wasson thing
Speaker 1: is fascinating me because I think it's great for us.
Speaker 1: I think his great sports talk radio fodder. But he
Speaker 1: has a no trade class is he hasn't even got
Speaker 1: into the big money of the deal yet. And if
Speaker 1: I'm the Houston Texans, why would I even entertain trading
Speaker 1: a franchise quarterback. They're so hard to find, and so
Speaker 1: I know they don't have picks and all that, and
Speaker 1: we all love what's behind door number one and two,
Speaker 1: But I have a quarterback. It is easy to start
Speaker 1: when I have a quarterback. Then when I don't have one, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think I think the conversation about Dak needs to
Speaker 1: happen the league year starts, I believe March twelfth or
Speaker 1: some day around that, and you know, the Cowboys have
Speaker 1: had the opportunity to visit with Dak Prescott and at
Speaker 1: least exchange ideas since the season's been over, and maybe
Speaker 1: when the new league year starts, then that's the momentum.
Speaker 1: Then it's like, Okay, this deal's done, let's go forward,
Speaker 1: let's get it signed, and now we can start the
Speaker 1: offseason like it needs to be had. But I do
Speaker 1: feel like, though, that if you get to the first
Speaker 1: of April and you don't have an extension done with
Speaker 1: Dak Prescott, then some of our draft shows need to
Speaker 1: be about talking about what quarterbacks are available. That that's
Speaker 1: that's what that is reality there, because if you can't
Speaker 1: get this done by the time you draft, then you
Speaker 1: have to be thinking, like, I don't know if this
Speaker 1: is going to get done long term. I've got to
Speaker 1: maybe move on and try and make something else happen here.
Speaker 1: That would be the only time. It's either sign Dack
Speaker 1: or trade Dac. That's that's that's there's no in between
Speaker 1: for me. But really, my drop dead date is really
Speaker 1: the first of April, and if I don't have it
Speaker 1: done by then, I'm starting to I'm starting to talk
Speaker 1: to teams about our situation here with the Cowboys. I'll
Speaker 1: throw this in. This is just off the top of
Speaker 1: my head. If you want Dak Prescott, if you're another
Speaker 1: team and you want Dak, I need two firsts at least,
Speaker 1: so I need this year's first, next year's first, then
Speaker 1: probably also your second round pick in this year's draft,
Speaker 1: and a starter caliber player that's on your roster right now,
Speaker 1: preferably a Pro Bowl caliber player. That's like, that's my
Speaker 1: starting point. Yeah, well, yeah, I think yeah, there's yeah,
Speaker 1: you definitely you're definitely gonna need the first this year
Speaker 1: because you're gonna need to take that one potentially and
Speaker 1: go back up in the draft if you want to
Speaker 1: get to say Cincinnati at five, you're gonna have to
Speaker 1: give them pick forty four. But to really sweeten this thing,
Speaker 1: if you had an extra one, you can take your
Speaker 1: ten that one and then elevation that thing and go
Speaker 1: and get you a quarterback to make sure that you
Speaker 1: protected yourself going forward because you've made the trade, Bucky,
Speaker 1: did you think my price was too much or not enough?
Speaker 1: I mean that's very very pricing, Like oh yeah, I know,
Speaker 1: I know, Like, well you gotta look at we know, no, no,
Speaker 1: we know you can't quarterback to number four, like I
Speaker 1: get that, but two first, a second and a Pro
Speaker 1: Bowl player like that is that is a lot. So
Speaker 1: you know what I'm doing, I'm hanging up and say,
Speaker 1: you know what, we could try and find it. That's fine,
Speaker 1: that's fine because I don't I don't want to trade
Speaker 1: him anyway. That's fine, No, but but but you know,
Speaker 1: you gotta protect yourself. I mean, we were the price is,
Speaker 1: you know, the price is whatever they make it but
Speaker 1: you know, you gotta look at what it got. Like
Speaker 1: Laramie Tunsil went for, you got to look for what
Speaker 1: the guy and I know it's a different position. You
Speaker 1: got to look at see what you know the guy
Speaker 1: at the Bears, what what he went for? Yeah. See,
Speaker 1: so that's where you're starting to That's where you have
Speaker 1: to sit there and Okay, I need to get this
Speaker 1: thing done. I'm not trying to hold people up. I'm
Speaker 1: trying to trade him, but I'm also trying to get
Speaker 1: that I'm trying to get two ones out of the
Speaker 1: deal as my bottom line, because I need the one
Speaker 1: to get back to where I need to go to
Speaker 1: get a new quarterback. And so yeah, I mean we could,
Speaker 1: we could. We could all kind of say, oh, well,
Speaker 1: that's too much of this. It's someone always is willing
Speaker 1: to pay. But you have to make sure that if
Speaker 1: you're moving on from the quarterback, you have to make
Speaker 1: it inviting for the other team to be willing to
Speaker 1: make the deal. You don't want to just hammer it
Speaker 1: so hard that all of a sudden that nobody wants
Speaker 1: to do the deal. You know, then you have to
Speaker 1: come back with hat in hand and try and do
Speaker 1: this all over again. You want to make sure that's
Speaker 1: the deal that works for you, works with a player,
Speaker 1: and then you can you can go from there. So
Speaker 1: I think the answer it's a Matt's question. Whenever it
Speaker 1: came to should the Cowboys keep an eye on Watson situation,
Speaker 1: the answer is yes, and see what that kind of
Speaker 1: ransom would be in order to get him out of Houston,
Speaker 1: And the same thing for dak out of Dallas should
Speaker 1: things go wrong situationally for the Cowboys in these negotiations
Speaker 1: as we continue on into the draft process. Okay, this
Speaker 1: is a good question from Cowboys coffee talk I really
Speaker 1: like And he said he's a big, big fan of
Speaker 1: the show you guys, so he loves you guys. One
Speaker 1: it is to throw that out there. He said, I'm
Speaker 1: a big believer in upgrading defensive tackle. However, I am
Speaker 1: told there's a few difference makers out of a few
Speaker 1: difference makers outside of maybe a Christian Barmore from Alabama.
Speaker 1: And do you have any day two defensive tackles that
Speaker 1: the Cowboys could potentially target Bucky Brooks. You know, like
Speaker 1: this defensive tackle class is really really weak. Like that's rough.
Speaker 1: I mean, it is really it's really rough to say
Speaker 1: that you can find someone that would upgrade what is
Speaker 1: currently there in Neville, Gallimore and Antoine was in those guys.
Speaker 1: If you're going to go, I think, if I'm going
Speaker 1: to try and upgrade the position, then I'm gonna try
Speaker 1: and spend the capital to give the guy at the top,
Speaker 1: and that would be Barrymore. But I'm not gonna take
Speaker 1: him at ten. I think he's a guy that should
Speaker 1: fall in the twenties, um if that, because they have
Speaker 1: him some concerns because he flashed at the end of
Speaker 1: the year, but his year was inconsistent in terms of
Speaker 1: his level of dominance. I'm just a little leary on
Speaker 1: him and taking him there, and so I think the
Speaker 1: Cowboys might be better serve to look for the upgrades
Speaker 1: at d tackle, potentially in free agency as opposed to
Speaker 1: the draft. Bucky, what did you think about the Washington
Speaker 1: kid O two E E K. I think, yeah, eak,
Speaker 1: I always say these names wrong. Yeah, it was like
Speaker 1: that le by Osaique from Washington. Did you did you
Speaker 1: see him at all? Sixty three? Yeah, two hundred ninety palace.
Speaker 1: He's active, He's able to make and control the line
Speaker 1: of scrimmage or whatever. The thing about it is like
Speaker 1: watching guys against PAC twelve lineman is really really hard
Speaker 1: because how many pros are he playing? Is he really
Speaker 1: playing against? And so his level of dominance is solid,
Speaker 1: But I would feel better about him if I saw
Speaker 1: him dominant against SEC competition. He's another oddo, a guy
Speaker 1: who was sipped out. Buddy's a Senior Bowl invite, so
Speaker 1: he's going to be at the Senior Bowl, so you
Speaker 1: get to see him there. But he did opt out
Speaker 1: of the twenty twenty. Yeah. But to Bucky's point, I think,
Speaker 1: and then there's a kid to a failure. I think
Speaker 1: you say, you say the kid from USC Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean we're okay, we're talking about potential second round type guys.
Speaker 1: Those would be, you know, a guy I really liked
Speaker 1: to like the Nixon kid from Iowa. I think took
Speaker 1: your point, Bucky, Yeah, it's weak. I think Barmore has
Speaker 1: helped himself though the last couple of games out. You know,
Speaker 1: it's like people of like, oh, well, he's gone from
Speaker 1: a guy that you would take at at twenty five
Speaker 1: to maybe a guy you would take at fifteen. You know,
Speaker 1: you know it, maybe he's he's made that kind of jump.
Speaker 1: But those two Pac ten kids and again the Iowa
Speaker 1: kid Nixon, you know, I think those are kind of
Speaker 1: second round guys that that maybe that you know, that
Speaker 1: that could go in and play well for somebody. I
Speaker 1: know watching those Pac twelve kids play that they were
Speaker 1: they were really active. You know, they were active. They
Speaker 1: were playing outside the tackle box, they were getting up
Speaker 1: the field, they were being disruptive tackles for loss, you know,
Speaker 1: pressure on the quarterback in the pocket. You know. I
Speaker 1: both think that those undertackles, those three techniques that you know,
Speaker 1: cowboy fans and if your team's a four three team,
Speaker 1: you know, that's that three technique that we're talking about,
Speaker 1: that undertackle. But those are a couple of names of guys.
Speaker 1: I mean, again, I butcher names, but if I watch
Speaker 1: him play, yeah, I kind of saw like second third
Speaker 1: round kind of talent there myself. Okay, this is actually
Speaker 1: this is really timely because he declared last night. But
Speaker 1: what do y'all think about Tommy and togy I the
Speaker 1: Ohio State defensive tackle Because I haven't done a deep
Speaker 1: dive by any means yet, but he kicked Clemson's ass
Speaker 1: and I have a feeling they missed him dearly against
Speaker 1: Alabama six two three hundred pounds, played fantastic for Ohio State,
Speaker 1: which you know, again that's that's a program. You know,
Speaker 1: there's three or five programs where if you did it
Speaker 1: at that program, I trust that you can do it
Speaker 1: in the NFL, and Ohio States one of them. So
Speaker 1: he's gonna come into the league fully equipped because Larry
Speaker 1: Johnson one of the best delone coaches that you've seen.
Speaker 1: When you look at the work that they've done at
Speaker 1: Ohio State and the guys that have come out of there,
Speaker 1: they all play and so from Devon Hamilton to the Stars,
Speaker 1: Nick bos and all those guys they played, and so yeah,
Speaker 1: they great hand skills. He's gonna come off. He has
Speaker 1: a motor, he can control it at the line of scrimmage.
Speaker 1: Those are the things that you like. And in a
Speaker 1: class where it's really hard to distinguish who are the
Speaker 1: top ones from the others, sometimes you have to lean
Speaker 1: towards are they scaled, because that's the evaluation. Evaluation comes
Speaker 1: to talent versus skilled, and the skilled player may give
Speaker 1: you more pop initially than the more talented player, because
Speaker 1: when you think about COVID and the lack of reps
Speaker 1: and practice time and all those other things. You kind
Speaker 1: of need a right now player and those who have
Speaker 1: the skills already are gonna have a chance to play
Speaker 1: and make an impact right away. Yeah. I think that's
Speaker 1: a great way to look at this defensive tackle class, because,
Speaker 1: like we already talked about with the draft, I mean,
Speaker 1: ultimately you're gonna have trouble trying to figure out the measurables,
Speaker 1: and defensive tackle is one of the spots where you
Speaker 1: kind of need those measurables to make at least a pick,
Speaker 1: and you need some tape to go with. I think
Speaker 1: lucky enough for Antique a week way. I can't say
Speaker 1: his name either, Brian, I'm right there with your buddy
Speaker 1: in terms of butchering names. I'll get there at some point.
Speaker 1: But the Washington defensive tackle at least he's going to
Speaker 1: the Senior Bowl. At least he's somebody that you'll get
Speaker 1: to see on the field with other competition at some
Speaker 1: point and puts some film out there as a twenty
Speaker 1: twenty opt out. There's not a ton of those guys,
Speaker 1: but he is one of those guys that will be
Speaker 1: out there Okay, moving on another question here, Well, we
Speaker 1: could get maybe one or two more here. Let's go
Speaker 1: to these Senior Bowl wide receivers and Bucky, you wanted
Speaker 1: to talk about the Senior Bowl wide receivers. I mean,
Speaker 1: we saw another one yesterday commit and of course Heisman
Speaker 1: Trophy winner Davante Smith, but some of these other guys
Speaker 1: like a Dez Fitzpatrick or an Amari Rodgers, Dwayne Eskridge,
Speaker 1: and Thayland Wallace out of Oklahoma State. Michael Davenport ask
Speaker 1: this question, but in terms of the group of wide receivers, Bucky,
Speaker 1: that you've seen commit to the Senior Bowl, what do
Speaker 1: you think about this group overall? And is there anybody
Speaker 1: late round the Cowboys could potentially look at. Look, I
Speaker 1: think this is a really good group. I think it's
Speaker 1: a really good class. I think it's solid. I think
Speaker 1: you have a bunch of technicians that would do their work.
Speaker 1: Tylan Wallace is certainly someone that is intriguing. He popped
Speaker 1: his ACL a year ago, but came back and was
Speaker 1: very very productive. Normally it takes two years before you
Speaker 1: fully activated and write coming off of that, he is
Speaker 1: one that you definitely need to keep an eye on.
Speaker 1: I think the guys to really watch because I think
Speaker 1: when I look at the evolution of what the Cowboys
Speaker 1: could do at wide receiver, I believe Marie Cooper is
Speaker 1: going to be number one. Ceede Lamb is going to
Speaker 1: be number two. I think maybe eventually they move on
Speaker 1: from Michael got because I just don't know if they
Speaker 1: can pay all three Rogers is interesting. It is Teve
Speaker 1: Martin's son who is now Tennessee to Tennsee legend or whatever,
Speaker 1: but he's a fantastic slot player. I do wonder if
Speaker 1: at some point you're going to move Ceedee Lamb to
Speaker 1: X have a Marie Cooper at Z and didn't maybe
Speaker 1: need a slot receiver, or do you find that X receiver?
Speaker 1: So Amari Rodgers is someone that I would keep an
Speaker 1: eye on. Esk Ridge is also someone who has speed
Speaker 1: and has some get down that fascinates me a little bit.
Speaker 1: A couple other guys they're like a Cadarius Tony. I
Speaker 1: don't know if you would have a chance of getting
Speaker 1: him later in the draft, Brian, but I mean, at
Speaker 1: least out of a guy that's exciting to watch with
Speaker 1: the Senior Bowl, he's up there. Anybody that sticks out
Speaker 1: to you, though. No, I think that Bucky did a
Speaker 1: really good job, you know, I think did Jim Naggie.
Speaker 1: You know, he took over for Phil Savage, and Phil
Speaker 1: for a long time did a really great job of of,
Speaker 1: you know, evaluating bringing players in. I think Jim Naggie
Speaker 1: has taken it to a whole nother level. I never believed.
Speaker 1: And even though that, you know, he got Smith from
Speaker 1: Alabama to show up. He's got the busted finger, but
Speaker 1: he's being a part of this and the good for
Speaker 1: the kid. But Naggie's done a great job with that.
Speaker 1: And I think that Bucky's dead on about these receivers.
Speaker 1: I will say this about Tony and I'm kind of here,
Speaker 1: in the tradition of Florida receivers, there's some off the
Speaker 1: field things that you need to worry about there. So
Speaker 1: so he'll he'll get he'll get drafted, everybody will complain
Speaker 1: about him. He'll probably make plays, but when you watch
Speaker 1: him on tape, man, he is a nightmare. He reminds
Speaker 1: me very much when we talked about like Rondel Moore
Speaker 1: from Purdue, that same kind of like get the ball
Speaker 1: to him and now it's hold your breath, you know,
Speaker 1: situations on defense. So I do like what Naggie's done
Speaker 1: with that group. I'm looking forward to seeing those guys
Speaker 1: and how the kind of week that they have at practice.
Speaker 1: I will give you one that may not be a
Speaker 1: Cowboys target, but one that we always see these guys
Speaker 1: in the second and third round. That pop Treyvon Grimes
Speaker 1: from Florida. He could be a guy that you need
Speaker 1: to keep an eye on, and that what I would
Speaker 1: call that. Mike Thomas Mike Evans mold when he was
Speaker 1: coming out of high school. He's a five star recruit.
Speaker 1: He goes to Ohio State, has a family issue, comes
Speaker 1: back to Florida. But size, athleticism take it off the rim,
Speaker 1: big body, physical We're seeing that these big body playmakers
Speaker 1: can dominate just with their physicality on the perimeter. He
Speaker 1: is one that I would keep an eye on that
Speaker 1: he may not go like early like high second round,
Speaker 1: but second, third round. He is one that I'll keep
Speaker 1: an eye on that we go look back at like,
Speaker 1: oh how do we miss him? Yeah, well a day
Speaker 1: we saw last year guys like maybe like a Denzel Mims,
Speaker 1: who didn't of course have a great rookie season. But
Speaker 1: I mean it was a great wide receiver class overall
Speaker 1: last year, and the Seamor Bowl kind of reflected that that's.
Speaker 1: I mean, this, this class is good. And I was
Speaker 1: I was gonna bring up the two Florida kids for sure.
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's just because he wears number one,
Speaker 1: but Kadarius Tony just feels like Percy Harvin all over
Speaker 1: again to me. Um, same personality. Yeah, yeah, that boy.
Speaker 1: I was just gonna left that. I was gonna leave
Speaker 1: that part. I'm gonna leave that part. I was gonna leave. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I didn't watch to be alone in this strap show.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. You guys didn't. I didn't
Speaker 1: want you to be alone. Oh goodness, I think I dude,
Speaker 1: I think last year's class was probably a little bit
Speaker 1: more star studded. You brought up Mims. You know, Van
Speaker 1: Jefferson was down there last year as well. He obviously Laypool,
Speaker 1: Chase Claypool. Yeah, I forgot Chase Claypool was there. You're right, Um,
Speaker 1: so I think probably a little more star studded. But
Speaker 1: I think the world of Tyland Wallace and yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean to Brian's point, I think twenty thirteen was my
Speaker 1: first year really covering the draft, and you know, like
Speaker 1: the Senior Bowl used to get some good players, but
Speaker 1: like people, people kind of used to roll their eyes,
Speaker 1: and now, I mean you can't argue obviously, like the
Speaker 1: best of the best draft prospects are always going to
Speaker 1: be underclassmen, because if you're that good, you're gonna go
Speaker 1: pro before you're a senior. But they consistently get the
Speaker 1: best possible seniors. I mean, they got freaking they got
Speaker 1: Baker Mayfield, the number one pick in the draft, to
Speaker 1: go to Mobile. You know, the fact that last year
Speaker 1: they got I mean, they got Davante Smith, who he
Speaker 1: doesn't need to do anything to be a top ten pick,
Speaker 1: and they still got him to go. You know, he's
Speaker 1: gonna go down there and compete. I think it's awesome.
Speaker 1: You know, props to Jim for doing that, because it's
Speaker 1: on a whole another level from where it was even
Speaker 1: four or five years ago. It really is fun to
Speaker 1: watch and it makes at a spectacle and unfortunately, of
Speaker 1: course it's gonna be a lot virtual this year, but
Speaker 1: ultimately it's something that I know we'll grow amongst these
Speaker 1: players and amongst the league. Really as Naggie's really done
Speaker 1: a great job with it. But let's go ahead and
Speaker 1: take our second break. When we come back, I want
Speaker 1: to kind of attack a couple more questions. We had
Speaker 1: a lot of twitter on the twenty questions that centered
Speaker 1: around the linebackers and should the Cowboys have a linebacker
Speaker 1: up at the top of the board, and if it's
Speaker 1: a linebacker, who should it be. We'll talk about that
Speaker 1: when we come back. On the other side of the break.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Draft show. We're back in a
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Speaker 1: Com Draft Show. Final couple of minutes here of the
Speaker 1: Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show. As always, Bucky Brooks,
Speaker 1: Bryan brought us David Helman. I'm Kyle Yeomans and we
Speaker 1: just got done with some great twitter on the twenty
Speaker 1: and appreciate all you guys sending in your questions every week.
Speaker 1: Of course, these guys every Tuesday, ten o'clock Central Time,
Speaker 1: join them every week. It's it's fantastic the four that
Speaker 1: we have this year, that we get so many different
Speaker 1: personalities and thought processes with the draft, and we see
Speaker 1: that again here today. We'll be back on Thursday to
Speaker 1: in am Central Time with Dame Brugler, Jeff Cavanaugh and
Speaker 1: Kevin Turner as a part of the show. But guys,
Speaker 1: we've just went through a little bit of some twitter
Speaker 1: on the twenty and we asked a lot of questions
Speaker 1: about the quarterbacks and the offense and even a little
Speaker 1: bit of defensive tackle. But there were a couple questions
Speaker 1: about linebacker and this including this one from Travis Ferguson
Speaker 1: who said, who would you rather have on this Cowboys team?
Speaker 1: And that's either Michael Parsons or Zaban Collins the linebacker
Speaker 1: out of Penn date with Parsons and Collins being out
Speaker 1: of Tulsa, and there's a lot of form issue, or
Speaker 1: not really form, but at least play style. I think
Speaker 1: that was kind of differing between the two and who
Speaker 1: would you rather have, Brian whenever it comes to these
Speaker 1: two guys, and is linebacker a huge need for this
Speaker 1: team or at least a priority for this team heading
Speaker 1: into the draft process. Yeah, I don't know if Buckie,
Speaker 1: I know Bookie has probably seen the player. I don't
Speaker 1: know if Dave has. I watched Collins myself, and I
Speaker 1: kind of see a three four SAM linebacker there. I
Speaker 1: don't know what his fit really is for a four
Speaker 1: three scheme. So you know, maybe in the old regime,
Speaker 1: Collins would have been a guy that you would have
Speaker 1: jumped on board for, but I didn't. I didn't really
Speaker 1: see I didn't see stuff where I felt like, I mean,
Speaker 1: a good player. The size is incredible, how big he is,
Speaker 1: and you know, you watch him in these games. I
Speaker 1: think there was a couple of games where he was
Speaker 1: you know, he had key he got forced key turnovers
Speaker 1: in the game. But the more I watched the more,
Speaker 1: I thought, well, he this isn't just a big on
Speaker 1: the line, you know, Sam linebacker is what I saw,
Speaker 1: and you know, because you know, with his size and stuff.
Speaker 1: And I think with if you gave me a choice,
Speaker 1: I'm not a huge fan of Parsons. I really do
Speaker 1: like I do like Bolden a lot from Missouri is
Speaker 1: a guy that I'm kind of become a fan. I
Speaker 1: watched Dylan Moses last night, and there's some things about
Speaker 1: him that are that are good to go. But I
Speaker 1: think with Collins, if you gave me a choice between
Speaker 1: Collins and Parsons, I don't know if I would choose
Speaker 1: either one of those guys, you know, just for where,
Speaker 1: for where you have to choose Parsons, I don't think
Speaker 1: I would do it. And but Collins I kind of
Speaker 1: feel the same way. I think he's kind of a
Speaker 1: just a one position guy, you know, going forward here.
Speaker 1: So I wouldn't go either one of those guys is
Speaker 1: my linebacker, you know, Bryan. I think it's important now
Speaker 1: that we have to bring dan Quinn and his history
Speaker 1: into the fold in the Loup, and I don't think
Speaker 1: either one of those guys are his type of players.
Speaker 1: When it comes to the linebacker position. You look at
Speaker 1: the guys that they drafted at Atlanta, it was the
Speaker 1: I won't say the undersize, but it was the runner athlete,
Speaker 1: run fast. Yo. Now, I don't want to do the
Speaker 1: Alma mater homer, but chess or Rot would be more
Speaker 1: of a fit from North Carolina. He would be more
Speaker 1: of a fit in that style of defense to play
Speaker 1: that role. So whether you're talking about Sup planning, Jaylen
Speaker 1: Smith or whatever, but someone that can run and chase
Speaker 1: and be active and run down the scene and blitz
Speaker 1: into those things, he would be more of that style
Speaker 1: linebacker that you're talking about in the second round or
Speaker 1: something like that. Even the kid from Ohio State. You know,
Speaker 1: if you worry book about do you worry about the conversion?
Speaker 1: You know Tres was he was he was a quarterback
Speaker 1: and then you know, converted to linebacker. I mean, the
Speaker 1: kid does run well, he does make some plays. Is
Speaker 1: the learning curve too much for him or is it
Speaker 1: you're just basing on traits that maybe you'll get that
Speaker 1: that guy at the next level. Well, well, I think
Speaker 1: now like the way we have to look at linebackers,
Speaker 1: like our old school thought process, of like, hey, can
Speaker 1: he take on cann He shit had a smash a quarterback.
Speaker 1: Like now we're seeing. If you're linebackers can't run and chase,
Speaker 1: you have no chance. If they can't do anything in
Speaker 1: either coverage or blitz, you don't have to do it.
Speaker 1: And so look, man, we just saw Patrick Queen come
Speaker 1: out of nowhere to be like a top pick and
Speaker 1: he hadn't played much, but he flashed and he popped
Speaker 1: and he did those things. And so for Chazz, the
Speaker 1: conversion is unconventional going from quarterback to linebacker, but the
Speaker 1: athletic traits are ridiculous. When you dig in his background
Speaker 1: and you kind of see where he's at. Oh no, absolutely, yeah.
Speaker 1: The more you do dig in on him, it's impressive.
Speaker 1: When you could watch him throw the ball miss a
Speaker 1: quarterback and then you could watch him sack a quarterback,
Speaker 1: you know, it's kind of will. But yeah, along this
Speaker 1: same line of thinking, and I mean, yeah, it's hard
Speaker 1: not to think about Dion Jones when you think about
Speaker 1: Dan Quinn. Am I crazy for thinking of Jeremiah Wusu
Speaker 1: Corramoro When you say that I didn't know, I think, man,
Speaker 1: I why do I see a strong safety there Bucky
Speaker 1: and Dave. Why because he's because he's two hundred and
Speaker 1: fifteen pounds. I watch him cover in the slot. That
Speaker 1: kid makes a ton of plays. I mean, he's a
Speaker 1: lot of fun to watch. I mean, I go back
Speaker 1: to this South far back. I could go he's not
Speaker 1: as fast as Darren Woodson, But I remember Darren Woodson
Speaker 1: playing linebacker Arizona State in nineteen ninety two. You know,
Speaker 1: And I was sitting there thinking, man, is this guy
Speaker 1: strong safety? Because you do see him play in the slot.
Speaker 1: You do see him cover, you do see him carrying
Speaker 1: tight ends. You know, you see him rushing. He made
Speaker 1: a huge play in that Clemson game, the game that
Speaker 1: was played in South Ben. So I'm thinking, is this
Speaker 1: guy a linebacker? Is he a strong safety? Man? But
Speaker 1: I love the player? Don't get okay that play? Y'all.
Speaker 1: Y'all tell me this because if this was two years ago,
Speaker 1: I would have said, well, Rod Marinelli hates jack knife players.
Speaker 1: He wants everybody to have a clearly defined role just important.
Speaker 1: Should I expect Should I expect that from Dan Quinn?
Speaker 1: Or I mean, like Buddha Baker is a great example.
Speaker 1: The Cowboys didn't have any interest in Buddha Baker? Could
Speaker 1: I get my hopes up that maybe it would be
Speaker 1: different under Dan Quinn? Like, does a utility guy like
Speaker 1: that fit into this defense? Here's what I would tell
Speaker 1: you the challenge in that. Right, it's the same conversation
Speaker 1: debate that you would have with Isaiah Simmons last year. Right,
Speaker 1: it looks it looks great from ari end, Like as scouts,
Speaker 1: we're like, Oh, he can do this, he can do that,
Speaker 1: can do this, But then coaches tell me, Okay, well
Speaker 1: what room does he go to when it's time for
Speaker 1: position meetings? Yeah? How do we get him reps to
Speaker 1: do all of these things that you're banting about? How
Speaker 1: are we going to figure this out? And So when
Speaker 1: you think about that, it's easier when you have a
Speaker 1: guy that has a clearly defined role because at least,
Speaker 1: you know, worst case I can put him here and
Speaker 1: he can survive or whatever, and then if we can
Speaker 1: expand it, he can thrive. I think the kid that
Speaker 1: you're mentioning, I think we have to look at the
Speaker 1: game differently now. I think the days of a the
Speaker 1: strong safety lineback or whatever. I think teams are playing
Speaker 1: Nickel and Don anyway, yeah, and if you can get
Speaker 1: on the field, you can run and chase and make plays.
Speaker 1: We throw you out there and we call you whatever
Speaker 1: we call you when we rolled the lineups on the
Speaker 1: bottom third. But when you play the games, give me
Speaker 1: the eleven best guys, and I got to put eleven
Speaker 1: best athletes on the field and kind of figure it out.
Speaker 1: And so hopefully he dan Quinn has some of that
Speaker 1: in his repertoire, because you don't want to miss out
Speaker 1: on some of those players that you can get as
Speaker 1: impact players, because speed is everything in this game. Well,
Speaker 1: in talking about guys with these these physical attributes, and
Speaker 1: maybe this guy's a little bit bigger, but I know
Speaker 1: y'all's LSU Tiger. In Jabril Cox I mentioned that I
Speaker 1: watched him yesterday and got to kind of watch a
Speaker 1: little bit of the Tigers. I like his size, I
Speaker 1: mean six four, he's got long arms, and ultimately he
Speaker 1: was better on tape in twenty twenty than he was
Speaker 1: even playing against lesser competition, I think against back before
Speaker 1: his time at LSU, when he was at North Dakota State.
Speaker 1: But I would put him right in that conversation of
Speaker 1: a Chaz Sad and general Luca Cormora and maybe even
Speaker 1: a Baron Browning. I think there's a lump of linebackers
Speaker 1: that are in the second in the third round that
Speaker 1: the Cowboys could potentially be interested in and maybe even
Speaker 1: upgrade over what they have already. Guys. I don't like
Speaker 1: bringing up LSU players because I don't want people to
Speaker 1: think I'm a homer. But Jabril Cox can play. I
Speaker 1: think he's a ball in. He can no, he could like,
Speaker 1: he's physical, he can cover at least decently. I don't know,
Speaker 1: I don't know where you would have to draft him,
Speaker 1: but he's he's a good football player. I love that.
Speaker 1: I love your idea, Kyle play. Yeah. I'll say this
Speaker 1: though about him though, when he was coming out, when
Speaker 1: he when the season started, the two national they have
Speaker 1: National scouting and Blessto scouting. Blesto had a second round
Speaker 1: grade on him. So scouts going in to LSU had
Speaker 1: a grade of a one two seven on him. That's
Speaker 1: like a late two going in and so yeah, that's
Speaker 1: that's that's that's pretty heavy stuff right there. For a
Speaker 1: transfer and the kid, the kid want they want a
Speaker 1: ton of games at North Dakota State. Guys, A champion.
Speaker 1: He on an LSU team that struggled so bad on defense.
Speaker 1: He was one of the bright spots that they had,
Speaker 1: a clear bright spot. Yeah, well, you're seeing more of
Speaker 1: those guys play, and so I wouldn't discount it. And
Speaker 1: so I think the sweet spot for those linebackers anywhere
Speaker 1: the second and third round. And so when we're looking
Speaker 1: at trace and we're looking at what can they do? Well,
Speaker 1: he can run and chase, he can cover in space,
Speaker 1: he can do some of the things that you have
Speaker 1: to do because you have to think about the teams
Speaker 1: that you're playing in the division. And when you think
Speaker 1: about who is going to deal with Antonio Gibson floating
Speaker 1: out the backfield and doing all the stuff that he
Speaker 1: could do for the Washington football team, or Miles Stands
Speaker 1: for Philadelphia, or when se Quon Barkley comes back, you
Speaker 1: better have someone on your second level who can handle
Speaker 1: those matchups and quickly close and defend those guys. And
Speaker 1: so I think speed has to be something that's addressed,
Speaker 1: because Jaalen Smith doesn't have the speed to be able
Speaker 1: to do it. And even though you may be hamstrung
Speaker 1: with this contract, I think at some point you have
Speaker 1: to find more speed to put at the second level
Speaker 1: to be able to deal with the teams in division.
Speaker 1: Change the directions huge. I mean, when you're watching this tape,
Speaker 1: if you watch the linebacker they can't change direction, you
Speaker 1: might as well turn off the tape because that is
Speaker 1: so huge. I mean, it's it's unbelievable. You know, how
Speaker 1: you watch these games and how they're affected by guys
Speaker 1: not being in position because they can't change direction. That's
Speaker 1: kind of why I like Nick Bolton a lot, because
Speaker 1: I think he can change direction. I think he's a
Speaker 1: guy who's athletic enough. Same thing with your Bill Cox.
Speaker 1: I mean, there was really no issue on tape, at
Speaker 1: least from what I was seeing in terms of changing direction. Now,
Speaker 1: does it kind of deter you the fact that there's
Speaker 1: no top end linebackers in this draft, or are you
Speaker 1: okay taking a second or a third round guy like this,
Speaker 1: because I mean you've invested a first round pick in
Speaker 1: Layton vander esh and a second round pick in Jalen
Speaker 1: Smith with your linebackers already? Are you okay investing a
Speaker 1: high enough pick but still kind of I guess in
Speaker 1: the later part, still kind of taking a risk and
Speaker 1: trying to replace one of those two guys. Linebackers are
Speaker 1: the running backs of defense. You should be able to
Speaker 1: find good ones all over the place. Like I said,
Speaker 1: what I said, what I said, Oh, Bucky's gonna kill me,
Speaker 1: so so here here, here's here's what I hear, what
Speaker 1: I get. And I understand this because like it's it's
Speaker 1: the thing like we like to theorize like these things,
Speaker 1: and it makes sense. It's almost like, hey, never take
Speaker 1: a guard. Never, never take a guard in the top ten,
Speaker 1: don't take running backs. Don't take this. I would say this,
Speaker 1: if the talent Mary's being able to take someone in
Speaker 1: the first round, take a good player. But yes, if not,
Speaker 1: if there's a surplus, yeah you can. You can find
Speaker 1: them everywhere. I would say, because I saw your thing
Speaker 1: about Devin White, kind of change your mind, like good
Speaker 1: players make good teams. If you if you promise me,
Speaker 1: if you promise me, I'm getting Devin White. That's a
Speaker 1: different conversation, right, It depends on what comes out. I
Speaker 1: think what you can do is, man, you're fa acture that.
Speaker 1: And I think what we do is sometimes particularly when
Speaker 1: we're with teams, we we manufactured the position of need
Speaker 1: to say, hey, you know we're at ten. This guy
Speaker 1: is that as opposed to no, he's not a we
Speaker 1: can't take him at ten because he's not dead, because
Speaker 1: we're only setting ourselves up to fail. I think take
Speaker 1: really good players, and it does a Patrick Willis take
Speaker 1: a Patrick Willis having said that, you know, having said that,
Speaker 1: and I mean, you're you're right. I mean, if a guy,
Speaker 1: if he's that good, you should take him. No, No,
Speaker 1: but Bryan Guyan to get up, Bryant up, Bryan hit
Speaker 1: there is half and you fold it. Is there a
Speaker 1: linebacker in this draft that's worth that pick a ten? Yeah? No, No,
Speaker 1: there's not. And that's like anybody I wouldn't a ways
Speaker 1: say they think the way you feel about linebackers the
Speaker 1: way I feel about wide receivers. I believe you don't
Speaker 1: need to take a wide receiver in the first round.
Speaker 1: There's a there's that Green Bay Packer coming out of here. Man,
Speaker 1: I'm looking I'm looking at Davante Adams, I'm looking at
Speaker 1: Stefan Diggs. I'm looking at Michael Thomas, round, I'm looking
Speaker 1: at I'm looking at all these dudes. I'm like, I mean,
Speaker 1: do I really need the fourth over first round pick.
Speaker 1: It also helps if your quarterback is good. But I mean,
Speaker 1: do I now have to invest in any of those
Speaker 1: things like quarterbacks, Yeah, but offensive tackles, pass rushers, and corners. Well,
Speaker 1: so that actually, that's that's kind of the point that
Speaker 1: I make it, And like, I get it. I get it.
Speaker 1: You once you cross a certain certain threshold, you're worth drafting.
Speaker 1: But like I'm over here thinking about Dion Jones picked
Speaker 1: in the middle of the second round. Our old friend
Speaker 1: Anthony Hitchins was a fourth round pick, still playing great
Speaker 1: for Kansas City. If I'm drafting in the top ten,
Speaker 1: I want one of those money positions. I want coverage,
Speaker 1: I want pass rush. Yeah, like a great offensive tackle
Speaker 1: or if you need one, a quarterback, Like, that's what
Speaker 1: I'm looking for more so than a linebacker. You're you're
Speaker 1: saying linebackers out of money position. I mean, do we
Speaker 1: need to get into this even though we're over it's
Speaker 1: not it's not not in today's NFL. I just want
Speaker 1: to unless unless they can get after the passer, Like
Speaker 1: whoever you take in the top ten, top fifteen, they
Speaker 1: have to be able to impact the quarterback in some way,
Speaker 1: either protect him, make the game easy for him, knock
Speaker 1: him down or eliminate his passes. It has to be
Speaker 1: something in that. If it's a linebacker, there's just an
Speaker 1: old two down linebacker. We can't get those guys anywhere
Speaker 1: and everywhere. Yeah, I think there's plenty of those guys
Speaker 1: sprinkled throughout the day. Two picks in a second, third round,
Speaker 1: and I think the Cowboys, I would honestly, if it's
Speaker 1: not a defensive tackle in the second round, I think
Speaker 1: it would probably be a linebacker at least that's from
Speaker 1: initial thoughts. Ensure. There's a lot of evaluation to still
Speaker 1: be had whenever it comes to that position. I was
Speaker 1: gonna say, you're just trying to put the draft class
Speaker 1: together in January exactly. There's a ton of time left,
Speaker 1: and I understand this, and there's not even a cowbine
Speaker 1: to go by. But if I had to do it today,
Speaker 1: that's probably what I think it would be. But that's
Speaker 1: gonna do it for us here on the Dallas Cowboys
Speaker 1: dot Com Draft Show. So fun to be with you
Speaker 1: guys here over the last hour and we'll be back
Speaker 1: on Tuesday, ten am Central Thursday with the other group.
Speaker 1: Just be sure to join us but for Bucky Brooks,
Speaker 1: for Brian brought us, and for David Helman. I'm Kyle
Speaker 1: Yeoman's special thanks to Chris being back in studio, We'll
Speaker 1: see you next time on the Draft Show. This has
Speaker 1: been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the
Speaker 1: Dallas Cowboys Football Club.