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Speaker 1: Family Secrets is a production of I Heart Radio. The

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Speaker 1: landscape of my childhood really began with my parents childhood.

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Speaker 1: My parents met when they were my mom was fifteen

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Speaker 1: or sixteen. They married when she was seventeen, and my

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Speaker 1: dad was I think, maybe a sophomore in college or

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Speaker 1: maybe a junior in college. And my parents came from

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Speaker 1: a predominant African American family in Nashville, Tennessee. My grandfather

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Speaker 1: was a biomedical professor at Fisk University, and my parents

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Speaker 1: grew up in the Civil rights movement time, of course,

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Speaker 1: and this this idea of who you're supposed to be,

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Speaker 1: especially as an African American, and this predominant society, I

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Speaker 1: guess is the best way that I can kind of

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Speaker 1: explain it. Your reputation mattered, what you looked like mattered,

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Speaker 1: Everything on the outside mattered so much for being able

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Speaker 1: to get along in society. That's Zoe Shaw, psychotherapist, life coach,

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Speaker 1: motivational speaker, podcast host, and writer whose work is focused

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Speaker 1: on empowering women. I'm Danny Shapiro, and this is Family Secrets.

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Speaker 1: The secrets that are kept from us, the secrets we

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Speaker 1: keep from others, and the secrets we keep from ourselves.

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Speaker 1: My mother, she was one of the first, I believe,

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Speaker 1: the first African American to go through this predominantly white

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Speaker 1: Catholic school after Brown versus Board of Education in and

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Speaker 1: so she was taught very much that who you are,

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Speaker 1: what you do, what is scene is still very important.

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Speaker 1: So I was born in Nashville, Tennessee. My dad was

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Speaker 1: in medical school at the time that I was. I

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Speaker 1: was born, and I'm a second child. My mom was

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Speaker 1: in college. My father utilized the Air Force to pay

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Speaker 1: for his medical school, so after he graduated from medical school,

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Speaker 1: they were stationed in Washington, d c. At Andrew's Air

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Speaker 1: Force Base, and so that is where I went when

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Speaker 1: I was one year old and lived there until I

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Speaker 1: was about eight or nine. And I had a very sheltered, um,

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Speaker 1: really just wonderful early childhood. And when my father got

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Speaker 1: out of the Air Force, my parents decided to move

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Speaker 1: to rural Maryland, a place called Smithsburg, Maryland, which is

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Speaker 1: a really really tiny spot next to a slightly bigger

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Speaker 1: the town Hagerstown. My father got a job at the

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Speaker 1: hospital there, so he was an ear physician. What I

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Speaker 1: didn't notice when I was young was that my parents

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Speaker 1: had this idea. I think after the Civil Rights movement

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Speaker 1: and things had quote changed so much in our society

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Speaker 1: that they wanted to raise us without this concept of race.

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Speaker 1: And they never spoke about color of skin or race.

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Speaker 1: And even more important, my mother went out of her

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Speaker 1: way to not speak about it. What do you think

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Speaker 1: that was about for your mother? Was it the whole

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Speaker 1: idea of it? Just it shouldn't matter, it doesn't matter.

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Speaker 1: I think it was more of were past, that we

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Speaker 1: have gotten behind that, and I want my children to

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Speaker 1: not have race be a part of their idea about

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Speaker 1: how the way the world works, which sounds good on

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Speaker 1: the level, right. It sounds good that they had this

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Speaker 1: idea that that we are past that and that doesn't

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Speaker 1: matter and shouldn't be a factor in our lives anymore.

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Speaker 1: And like I said, had we continued to grow up

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Speaker 1: in Washington, d C. I think that it might have

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Speaker 1: been fine because it never occurred to me. I was

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Speaker 1: around other people with different colors and diversity, and I

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Speaker 1: didn't feel different. I think that a lot of our

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Speaker 1: previous generation was steeped in is also that white is better,

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Speaker 1: and so we want better opportunities for our kids. So

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Speaker 1: we want to send our children to the better schools,

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Speaker 1: to the white school I don't think it's still much now,

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Speaker 1: especially in cities anymore, because just because our you know,

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Speaker 1: we are a melting pot now, but things are different

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Speaker 1: back then, and my parents brought that with them. It

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Speaker 1: was really about, I think, wanting the best for us,

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Speaker 1: which would have been good had they not been decided

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Speaker 1: to move to this place, a very rural, farming community.

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Speaker 1: It was all white. There were also a number of Mennonite.

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Speaker 1: My parents sent me to a Christian school, and all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden, I'm this little black girl showing up

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Speaker 1: from Washington, d c. And the school of all white people,

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Speaker 1: many of whom have never really interacted with with a

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Speaker 1: black person. And so that was a really big you know,

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Speaker 1: it was life changing and I learned a lot of

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Speaker 1: things about how other people perceived me, and I learned

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Speaker 1: a lot of things about blackness, and I learned a

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Speaker 1: lot um that affected my self esteem, you know, as

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Speaker 1: a child. That dawning realization, or maybe it wasn't dawning,

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Speaker 1: maybe it was sudden, Like what did that feel like? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think it was dawning because I didn't go and

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Speaker 1: expecting that, and you know, me going into a sea

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Speaker 1: of white people wasn't really an issue necessarily until the

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Speaker 1: things started being said and the questions started being asked.

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Speaker 1: The best way I can describe it as shame, I realized,

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Speaker 1: or I began to feel a sense of Oh, these

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Speaker 1: people think that I am not as good as they are.

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Speaker 1: These people think that I am less than Oh, this

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Speaker 1: is how they see me. So I think I think

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Speaker 1: the best way to say it is shame, which in

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Speaker 1: a healthy family of color or family of difference, parents

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Speaker 1: are there and able to kind of reinforce some sense

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Speaker 1: of good and pride and who you are. And that

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Speaker 1: is something that my parents did not do because they

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Speaker 1: did not want to talk about color or race. And

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Speaker 1: so we, meaning my brother and my sister, knew very

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Speaker 1: clearly that these were things we couldn't talk about with

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Speaker 1: our parents, and there was nothing in our environment that

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Speaker 1: allowed us to kind of work it out. We had

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Speaker 1: to work it out within ourselves, and it wasn't even

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Speaker 1: anything we talked about with each other either. Kids who

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Speaker 1: grow up in families in which certain subjects are simply

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Speaker 1: off limits quickly learn that they have to send for

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Speaker 1: themselves to make matters more complicated. After a fairly garden

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Speaker 1: variety church going Episcopalian upbringing. When the family moves to Maryland,

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Speaker 1: Zoe's mom converts to an evangelical church, adding fuel to

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Speaker 1: the fire. We started going to church where a pastor,

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Speaker 1: you know, with a red face would shake his head

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Speaker 1: and speak in tongues and people would uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: raise their hands. And so I'm learning about who I am,

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Speaker 1: you know, and what this means about the color of

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Speaker 1: my skin. And then I'm in this environment where I'm

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Speaker 1: learning about God in a very different way than I

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Speaker 1: learned about him back when we were in Washington, d C.

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Speaker 1: And I later also learned that the pastor didn't believe

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Speaker 1: in the mixing of races. And so then the message

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Speaker 1: I got was God loves you, but not as much

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Speaker 1: as he loves the white people. And so all of that,

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Speaker 1: you know, that's a landscape that I grew up in,

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Speaker 1: and it explains a lot about just my self esteem

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Speaker 1: and you know, my family history going into my adolescence

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Speaker 1: as things begin to unfold because you internalize that shame.

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Speaker 1: The shape of the shame is not just they think

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Speaker 1: I'm not as good as they are, but if they

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Speaker 1: all think I'm not as good as they are. Maybe

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Speaker 1: I'm not as good as they are, then maybe I'm not. Yes,

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Speaker 1: I think that was always a question. There was always

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Speaker 1: this seed of this little fire, the seed of indignation

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Speaker 1: that knew better, but it was overshadowed for the most

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Speaker 1: part and most of my you know, growing up years

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Speaker 1: from nine until you know, twenty and so, yes, that

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Speaker 1: question is always there. Am I not? Am I not

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Speaker 1: as good? Well? Yeah, I mean I think when you're

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Speaker 1: a child, you don't have any defenses against that. And

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Speaker 1: as you said, if your parents are into place that

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Speaker 1: you can go to unpack some of this stuff, then

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Speaker 1: you're left, you know, we are left to contend with

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Speaker 1: it on our own, and we don't have the tools

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Speaker 1: for it. We don't. And you know, my parents, because

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Speaker 1: I know, you know, like most parents do, is they

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Speaker 1: do what they think is right, They do what they

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Speaker 1: think is the best they felt. I think that they

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Speaker 1: were going into this kind of environment and society to

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Speaker 1: prove them wrong, that they were going to somehow teach

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Speaker 1: our pastor that black people are just as good. But

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Speaker 1: my parents had tools that we didn't have, and they

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Speaker 1: didn't even give us any. And so I think what

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Speaker 1: they did in some ways it could be respected. It's

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Speaker 1: just the way they went about it that wasn't productive.

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Speaker 1: Zoe attends a private school that's all white. Then she

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Speaker 1: goes to a public junior high school where some black

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Speaker 1: kids are busted in from other neighborhoods and come from

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Speaker 1: backgrounds and environments that are very different from Zoe's. She

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Speaker 1: doesn't quite know what to make of them, and they

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Speaker 1: definitely don't know what to make of her, so they're

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Speaker 1: mean to her and call her names. They called me Oreo,

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Speaker 1: black on the outside, white on the inside. And I

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Speaker 1: was in this place of desperately wanting them to um

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Speaker 1: accept me and then also not understanding anything about who

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Speaker 1: they were at the same time, and so I just

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Speaker 1: kind of pushed myself away from them, and I felt

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Speaker 1: like they were the mama bird who sniffs the bay,

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Speaker 1: you know, the babies, and figures out there's something wrong

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Speaker 1: with them and pushes them out of the nest. So

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Speaker 1: it's kind of both of them pushing me away and

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Speaker 1: me pushing them away, and then me grappling again with

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Speaker 1: who am I right? I don't belong either place because

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Speaker 1: I don't really understand them, and they don't really understand me,

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Speaker 1: but then I'm not white and just really trying to

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Speaker 1: struggle and find my place. And how do you metabolize

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Speaker 1: that during that time? Does it make you retreat? Does

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Speaker 1: it make you work harder and want to excel? It

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Speaker 1: made me push myself away from them and attempt themhow

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Speaker 1: to not identify with them? And I think the way

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Speaker 1: that I dealt with it was to push them away

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Speaker 1: and to attempt to assimilate and be accepted as much

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Speaker 1: as I can. I think one of the benefits was

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Speaker 1: that I was also a very excellent athlete. I fell

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Speaker 1: tremendously and I poured a lot of myself into my athletics,

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Speaker 1: and I put a lot of myself into my academics

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Speaker 1: and found acceptance that way. I think that that helped,

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Speaker 1: because you know, obviously I have succeeded um and got

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Speaker 1: a lot of accolades from that, and that attention may

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Speaker 1: be helped. But I think it also the way that

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Speaker 1: it didn't help is that it didn't allow me to

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Speaker 1: value and honor myself as a person who I was.

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Speaker 1: It was for what I could do and what I

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Speaker 1: could provide. When Zoe's fourteen, she meets a boy, an

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Speaker 1: older boy named Finny at her brother's wrestling match. Z

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Speaker 1: We had been interested in boys before, but many were white,

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Speaker 1: and they said things like, if you weren't black, I'd

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Speaker 1: date you. For Zoe, this creates uncertainty and secretiveness around

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Speaker 1: who she's attracted to and who's attracted to her. Things

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Speaker 1: were changing a little bit when I was in high school,

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Speaker 1: such that a white girl would date a black guy,

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Speaker 1: and that was a little more accepted, but white guys

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Speaker 1: were not interested in dating black girls. I didn't ever

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Speaker 1: see that happen, and so I understood that my skin

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Speaker 1: color made me off limits, unattractive, and maybe not unattractive,

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Speaker 1: but it had to be secret. If I was going

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Speaker 1: to be in relationship with someone, it had to be secret.

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Speaker 1: So fast forward to meeting Vinny. And this is a

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Speaker 1: black guy. He's in college, he's attractive, and he took

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Speaker 1: an interest in me. We just started talking and he

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Speaker 1: asked me my phone number, and I tried to be

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Speaker 1: coy and I told him my last name and that

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Speaker 1: he could find me in the phone book, never thinking

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Speaker 1: that he actually would. Um and we set our good guys,

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Speaker 1: and a few days later he called me. We began

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Speaker 1: a m We begin a relationship. It's interesting because I

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Speaker 1: pause because I remember, you know, when he called me,

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Speaker 1: one of the first things he asked me was how

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Speaker 1: was your day? And that, in a very odd way,

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Speaker 1: threw me for a loop because no man had asked me, ever,

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Speaker 1: how my day was. Just think about that for a

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Speaker 1: sec such a simple question, right, how was your day?

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Speaker 1: And Yet for Zoe, this is something new, something she's

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Speaker 1: not used to being asked, not even when she was

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Speaker 1: growing up by her own father. My father was a brilliant,

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Speaker 1: brilliant man, but he had a lot of pain, and

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Speaker 1: he came from a very difficult um family situation, a

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Speaker 1: narcissistic mother, and my father adored my mother, and he

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Speaker 1: really didn't have any space in his life to love

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Speaker 1: anyone else. And I say love in terms of an

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Speaker 1: action bird. My father loved me, and I know he

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Speaker 1: loved me, but we didn't really have a relationship, and

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Speaker 1: he didn't really have much of a relationship with any

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Speaker 1: of us, my brother and my sister. He was a workaholic,

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Speaker 1: and so I also grew up with what I called

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Speaker 1: baddie lust, which I didn't really discover until I was

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Speaker 1: twelve and I visited a friend and we spent the

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Speaker 1: night and got up in the morning, and her dad

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Speaker 1: was like making us pancakes, and he knew my name,

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Speaker 1: and he was asking us questions like he was interested

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Speaker 1: in us, And I was fascinated. I had never seen

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Speaker 1: that where a father was that interested in their child.

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Speaker 1: You know. My father would often ask me how old

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Speaker 1: I was, and he didn't know the names of my friends,

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Speaker 1: you know, and he definitely didn't ask you how your

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Speaker 1: day had been. No, no, he didn't. So you know,

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Speaker 1: I had this combo of self esteem issues, identity issues,

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Speaker 1: daddy lust and it was just the perfect storm for

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Speaker 1: meeting Vinny. And then he was black, but he didn't

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Speaker 1: know that I wasn't, you know, like the other people.

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Speaker 1: And eventually, as he got to know me, he just

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Speaker 1: accepted me, and he would joke about the things. He

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Speaker 1: would say, you know, you grew up in a bubble,

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Speaker 1: or he somehow accepted the fact that I us been

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Speaker 1: I didn't know my culture like I should, and I didn't.

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Speaker 1: I wasn't like everybody else. We'll be right back. Zoe

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Speaker 1: and Vinnie have both grown up in religious homes. Where

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Speaker 1: shall we say, sex before marriage is frowned upon a

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Speaker 1: great deal of emphasis is placed on purity, especially purity

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Speaker 1: for women. I knew very clearly that my mother was

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Speaker 1: a virgin when she married my mother. My parents were

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Speaker 1: sure to let me know. It's funny because I don't

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00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:51,240
Speaker 1: know if my dad was. Nobody ever talked about that is,

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00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:53,440
Speaker 1: the fact didn't seem to matter as much. But my

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00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:56,000
Speaker 1: mother was a virgin when she married my father, and

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Speaker 1: of course I was expected to do the same. But

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Speaker 1: that didn't happen. Me and I, you know, developed a

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Speaker 1: sexual relationship, and within a year of dating, I became pregnant.

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Speaker 1: And you were how old I was fifteen when I

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Speaker 1: became pregnant. You know. When I met Benny, I actually

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00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:20,480
Speaker 1: lied to him about my age then he was must

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Speaker 1: have been eighteen. I told him I was fifteen, even

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Speaker 1: though I wasn't really yet. I was probably, I don't

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Speaker 1: know a few months from that. And we started dating

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Speaker 1: when I was fourteen. So you can't fathom telling your parents.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's just that's just not something that you're

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Speaker 1: going to do initially, right. I was actually very much

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Speaker 1: praised for being the easy, good girl, and I always was.

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Speaker 1: I got good grades, I didn't give my parents any trouble.

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Speaker 1: I obeyed them, and so this for me too, now

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Speaker 1: become pregnant, you have disobeyed them, and probably the worst way,

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Speaker 1: in my opinion at that time, UM was really devastating

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Speaker 1: for me. On top of just the shame of what

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Speaker 1: I had done. So I could not figure out how

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Speaker 1: to form those words to tell my parents. Back then,

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Speaker 1: there were not you know, pregnancy test you could just

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Speaker 1: pick up at the drug store. And so I I

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Speaker 1: skipped school and I went to a pregnancy clinic, Crisis

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Speaker 1: pregnancy clinic, where they confirmed that I was pregnant. I

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Speaker 1: told Benny and we planned to get an abortion. Now

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Speaker 1: I was also the child who had walked in anti

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Speaker 1: abortion marches, and um, remember we're an evangelical Christian, we

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Speaker 1: don't believe in abortion. My mom and dad donated to

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Speaker 1: Jerry Fallwell. They were like a premier, silver gold whatever,

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Speaker 1: donators to Jerry Fallwell's pregnancy home and his mission to

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Speaker 1: save babies. So I also came out of that that

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Speaker 1: culture her. And so here I was at fifteen now

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Speaker 1: deciding I'm willing to get an abortion because I can't

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Speaker 1: do this. I can't tell my parents, I can't ruin

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Speaker 1: my my life. You know, I've done the simple thing,

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Speaker 1: and I have to hide it. And so we planned

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Speaker 1: to do that, and then he saved up his money

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Speaker 1: and um I he picked me up from the school

300
00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:22,880
Speaker 1: on the day that we had scheduled the appointment and

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00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:26,040
Speaker 1: he drove me to the clinic. Then he stayed in

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Speaker 1: the in the waiting room and I went inside. And

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00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:32,560
Speaker 1: when you go in, there was you know, a group

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Speaker 1: of other girls, and we had to do this little

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00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:39,560
Speaker 1: group where they quote counsel you before you get the abortion.

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Speaker 1: And in the beginning, the nurse passed out these little

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Speaker 1: pills to everyone and said to take this medication. I

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00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:48,760
Speaker 1: guess it was going to relax you or something prior

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Speaker 1: to the procedure. And the first thing I did was

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Speaker 1: I looked at her and I said, well, this pill

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Speaker 1: hurt the baby. And I remember she looked at me

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00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:00,439
Speaker 1: with this expression of do you know you're just kid

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Speaker 1: what you're getting ready to do, and you're asking me

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Speaker 1: if this skill is going to hurt the baby. And

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00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:08,080
Speaker 1: it was also the first inkling for me that I

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00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:11,360
Speaker 1: was a mother who was already kind of thinking about

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00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:17,679
Speaker 1: this fetus as my child already concerned. So here I

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00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:21,439
Speaker 1: am carrying these two you know, the echonomy is walking

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Speaker 1: myself into the abortion room. And I got on the

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Speaker 1: table and the doctor came in, and um, they began

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00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:34,040
Speaker 1: to set up and need his ultrasound, and and he

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00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:37,560
Speaker 1: did make a mention that I was really far along,

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Speaker 1: but that he could still do it because the baby

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00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:44,920
Speaker 1: was small. And before I could, even before I could

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00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:48,359
Speaker 1: process my thoughts, my words just tumbled out and I

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00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:50,640
Speaker 1: sat up and I just said I can't do this.

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Speaker 1: I've changed my mind. And the doctor was very irritable,

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Speaker 1: and he looked at me and he, you know, just said,

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00:19:57,240 --> 00:19:59,960
Speaker 1: you know, you've wasted my time and you're too far along,

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Speaker 1: and if you come back here, I'm not treating you,

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00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:04,960
Speaker 1: and good luck, although I felt like he was wishing

332
00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:07,840
Speaker 1: me something other than luck. And I literally jumped off

333
00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:10,840
Speaker 1: the table, grabbed my socks and shoes and ran out

334
00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:13,399
Speaker 1: of there into the lobby. And then he's looking at me,

335
00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:17,679
Speaker 1: why do I like, is it over already? And I

336
00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:20,720
Speaker 1: told him I'm not doing it. I changed my mind,

337
00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:23,760
Speaker 1: and he, you know, he was really just wonderful and

338
00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:26,400
Speaker 1: he was like, okay, Um. He put his arm around

339
00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:28,760
Speaker 1: me and we walked out of the place, trying to

340
00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:31,000
Speaker 1: figure out what to do from there. And you know,

341
00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:36,600
Speaker 1: as I tell that story, I'm always cognizant of the

342
00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:41,240
Speaker 1: woman who has gotten the abortion, because in that moment,

343
00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:46,399
Speaker 1: I know because of the history of me and my parents,

344
00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:48,920
Speaker 1: and my family and and and my religion, and all

345
00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:51,800
Speaker 1: of those things led me to be in a place

346
00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:54,920
Speaker 1: where I couldn't do it. But I just want to say,

347
00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:57,560
Speaker 1: because so many of us have our own shame and

348
00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:02,439
Speaker 1: secrets around um things with sex and abortions and and

349
00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:05,000
Speaker 1: things like that, that there's just no judgment because we

350
00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:09,320
Speaker 1: all we all make our choices largely because of our

351
00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:12,239
Speaker 1: influences that were not even fully aware of, And so

352
00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:14,640
Speaker 1: I just have no judgment for any woman who who

353
00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:17,639
Speaker 1: would and has and will make a choice like that.

354
00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:24,959
Speaker 1: When Zoe and Vinnie leaves a clinic, his arm protectively

355
00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:28,520
Speaker 1: around her, z he has a fantasy she and Vinnie

356
00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:31,000
Speaker 1: will run away and find a castle with all live

357
00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:36,119
Speaker 1: happily ever after. But as with most fantasies, reality comes

358
00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:40,160
Speaker 1: crashing through, and the reality is that Zoe has volleyball

359
00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:43,760
Speaker 1: practice and school. The reality is that she has parents

360
00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:46,960
Speaker 1: at home who have no idea what's going on. The

361
00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:52,280
Speaker 1: reality is that Zoe is still pregnant. I don't think

362
00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:55,000
Speaker 1: that I had any idea what I was going to do.

363
00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:58,280
Speaker 1: I think I just went straight into a sense of denial,

364
00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:02,960
Speaker 1: and so I literally said nothing, and I continued on,

365
00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:06,399
Speaker 1: and I finished my volleyball season. I remember, you know,

366
00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:09,280
Speaker 1: reaching to get a ball and landing flat on my

367
00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:13,000
Speaker 1: stomach and feeling the baby pressed into me so strongly,

368
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:17,840
Speaker 1: and remembering, oh, okay, there's someone there. It was in

369
00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:21,560
Speaker 1: December when I started track practice, and by then I

370
00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:25,560
Speaker 1: was able to wear sweatshirts, was getting cold on in Maryland,

371
00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:28,879
Speaker 1: and I was almost discovered once at track practice because

372
00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:31,720
Speaker 1: my coach was gonna put this device around my stomach

373
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:35,840
Speaker 1: to do these lifting things, and I remember slowly taking

374
00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:38,880
Speaker 1: off my sweatshirt and looking at him to see if

375
00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:45,520
Speaker 1: he noticed. Over time, my mom figured it out. She

376
00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:50,439
Speaker 1: asked me one day, Zoe, are you pregnant? She literally

377
00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:53,240
Speaker 1: just said those words, and I'm sure there were plenty

378
00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:57,280
Speaker 1: of signs um and even still I couldn't tell her yes.

379
00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:00,760
Speaker 1: So I allowed my poor mom to me to another

380
00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:05,000
Speaker 1: pregnancy center, where another kind lady told us that I

381
00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:07,400
Speaker 1: was pregnant. How far along were you when your mother

382
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:10,960
Speaker 1: asked you that question? I must have been four or

383
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:15,040
Speaker 1: five months those around December, and I was doing may

384
00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:17,240
Speaker 1: so and there at the clinic. I had this idea

385
00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:19,360
Speaker 1: that somehow my mom being there would make this all

386
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:22,119
Speaker 1: go away, that maybe I wasn't really pregnant and she

387
00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:25,240
Speaker 1: would tell us that. But of course that didn't happen.

388
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:28,280
Speaker 1: I sat there and she told me what I already knew,

389
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:34,320
Speaker 1: and my mom was quiet. I thought about what happened

390
00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:37,320
Speaker 1: in the abortion clinic, because in the abortion clinic, because

391
00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:40,640
Speaker 1: I was under age, the woman asked. The woman said,

392
00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:45,160
Speaker 1: you can't get an abortion at fourteen without your parents consent.

393
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:48,000
Speaker 1: And I remember thinking, oh, okay, well great, well I'm

394
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:50,399
Speaker 1: going home. That's solved. And then she said, well, wait,

395
00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:53,040
Speaker 1: if you sign this paper and it says that you

396
00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:58,359
Speaker 1: know you fear that if you disclose your pregnancy to

397
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:00,440
Speaker 1: your parents that you will be hurt in some way

398
00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:03,480
Speaker 1: or abused or something, then you can sign that and

399
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:06,840
Speaker 1: it's fine that the law allows that. And I remember

400
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:10,399
Speaker 1: feeling so horrible and guilty for signing that paperwork, but

401
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:12,680
Speaker 1: I kind of rationalized it in my mind. I was like, well,

402
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:15,960
Speaker 1: if I tell my parents, you know, Bill drop dead

403
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,359
Speaker 1: and we won't have any parents to take care of us,

404
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:20,520
Speaker 1: and somehow that will be dangerous. So okay, I'm going

405
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:25,840
Speaker 1: to sign it. But the contrast of my mom's actual

406
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:35,000
Speaker 1: response and the pregnancy clinic was quiet, sad and disappointed, um,

407
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:39,119
Speaker 1: which is is typical for my mom. And so you know,

408
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:43,919
Speaker 1: I just sat there with shame and sadness, and I

409
00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:52,080
Speaker 1: felt very much a burden in that moment. On the

410
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:54,640
Speaker 1: way home from the clinic, Zoe and her mom make

411
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:58,080
Speaker 1: a stop. They go to Dairy Queen, which used to

412
00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:00,240
Speaker 1: be a wonderful treat when Zoe was a child old,

413
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:04,679
Speaker 1: but now all that childlike wonder is gone. Over ice cream.

414
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:08,439
Speaker 1: Zoe apologizes to her mom and tells her she wishes

415
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:10,680
Speaker 1: she could go away just so her parents won't have

416
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:14,359
Speaker 1: to deal with her predicament. Zoey's mom tells her that

417
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 1: she and her father will talk about it. Her mom

418
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:23,199
Speaker 1: doesn't say much else, she remains quiet disappointed. In the

419
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:26,240
Speaker 1: coming weeks, her parents tell Zoe that they will in

420
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:29,840
Speaker 1: fact be sending her away, having had pre marital sex

421
00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:33,320
Speaker 1: and becoming pregnant. They see Zoe as a bad influence

422
00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:37,159
Speaker 1: on her younger sister, so plans are made off she

423
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:41,320
Speaker 1: will go to a pregnancy home, and so I had

424
00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:45,800
Speaker 1: to go. And you know, in my mind at that time,

425
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:49,679
Speaker 1: I understood, because I understood that I was tainted. I

426
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 1: understood that, you know, I had done this sinful thing,

427
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:56,880
Speaker 1: and that I deserved this. Was Bennie still in your

428
00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:59,880
Speaker 1: life at that point? He was, Yes, Benny was still

429
00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:04,359
Speaker 1: in my life. Um. And I remember feeling disappointed because

430
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:06,960
Speaker 1: remember my fantasy about us running away to a cast

431
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:11,920
Speaker 1: bowl together, and I wanted him to somehow swoop in

432
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:15,240
Speaker 1: and and say, you know, no, this is my child

433
00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 1: and I want to marry you. And I were not

434
00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:19,600
Speaker 1: I'm not going to let this happen. And none of

435
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:23,119
Speaker 1: that happened. He was very much an agreement. I later

436
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:28,040
Speaker 1: found out, maybe seven ten years later, that my father

437
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:32,400
Speaker 1: had gone to Vinnie in private and said, if you

438
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:37,159
Speaker 1: contest any of this, I will accuse you of statutory

439
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:40,959
Speaker 1: rate and you know, basically I will destroy you if

440
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:43,280
Speaker 1: you can test any of this. We are doing this

441
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:46,560
Speaker 1: because he was he was over He was nineteen at

442
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:49,399
Speaker 1: that time and I was fifteen. He said, we are

443
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:53,120
Speaker 1: doing this in Zoey's best interest, and so he agreed.

444
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:56,640
Speaker 1: And of course I didn't know that at that time,

445
00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 1: and I just felt like he didn't care. But yes,

446
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:03,720
Speaker 1: we were still together. And I started preparing to leave,

447
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:06,639
Speaker 1: and my parents told me that they were going to

448
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:09,439
Speaker 1: tell everyone that I was going to boarding school. I

449
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:12,440
Speaker 1: remember hearing stories from my mom about girls who got

450
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:15,560
Speaker 1: in trouble and what happened to them. And from my

451
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:19,119
Speaker 1: mom's experience, if a girl got pregnant as a teenager

452
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 1: and her society at least she disappeared. You didn't see

453
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 1: her anymore. And so I think that on some level,

454
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:29,720
Speaker 1: my mom was just continuing what she understood to be

455
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:32,879
Speaker 1: the way that you deal with these things. And so

456
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:37,159
Speaker 1: my parents um packed me up and they took me

457
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:43,400
Speaker 1: for five hours away to Lynchburg, Virginia to Jerry Fallwells

458
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:48,560
Speaker 1: Liberty god Parent Home for pregnant women, and um that's

459
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:54,919
Speaker 1: where I spent the duration of my pregnancy. So my coach, UM,

460
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:59,200
Speaker 1: my teachers, the school, our church, family, everyone was told

461
00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:03,199
Speaker 1: that I went to reading school. Now I was told

462
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:05,760
Speaker 1: that my siblings are also told that I went to

463
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 1: boarding school. I later found out maybe three years ago,

464
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:12,520
Speaker 1: I found out that my parents had actually told my

465
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:15,439
Speaker 1: siblings that I had a psychiatric breakdown and I had

466
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:18,639
Speaker 1: to go to a psychiatric hospital. In some ways, this

467
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 1: is understandable because number one, my parents probably wouldn't necessarily

468
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:26,720
Speaker 1: have sent me to a boarding school for no reason.

469
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:29,760
Speaker 1: But probably the most important is that they couldn't visit me,

470
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:32,240
Speaker 1: And so my parents had to come up with a

471
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:35,320
Speaker 1: reason why they couldn't visit me, and their reason was

472
00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:39,400
Speaker 1: because I was in a psychiatric hospital. So your siblings then,

473
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 1: for all of those years following, had their own secret

474
00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 1: that they kept. Correct. Yeah, I mean secrets, create secrets,

475
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 1: create secrets. It's really something they do. They do. We'll

476
00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 1: be back in a moment with more family secrets. Zoe

477
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 1: is terrified when she arrives at the pregnancy home, but

478
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 1: she also feels deserving of this as her punishment. She

479
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:28,080
Speaker 1: understands why she's been banished. Most of the other girls

480
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 1: there are from low socioeconomic backgrounds. It's very institutional, and

481
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 1: yet again Zoe feels out of place. Despite this, there's

482
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:42,920
Speaker 1: a camaraderie among the girls, though the air circumstances may vary.

483
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:46,720
Speaker 1: They're all kind to one another, but still, there's more

484
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 1: going on at the pregnancy home than meets the eye.

485
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:52,880
Speaker 1: I felt like we were all taking time bombs in

486
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:57,200
Speaker 1: a way, because there was this other layer of secrecy

487
00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 1: within the Liberty god Parent Home because it was also

488
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:05,000
Speaker 1: directly attached I mean all of it housed together with

489
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:07,840
Speaker 1: an adoption agency. So the goal, of course was for

490
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 1: you to come in, have your baby, place your baby

491
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 1: for adoption through their adoption agency, and leave. And we

492
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:17,440
Speaker 1: are we weren't allowed to communicate with the girls who

493
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:21,160
Speaker 1: had left um and so you know, you would make

494
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 1: friends with somebody, and when they got close to do date,

495
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:26,640
Speaker 1: you know, you'd wake up in the morning to check

496
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:30,440
Speaker 1: and see is your friend gone? Did they disappear? Are

497
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:34,400
Speaker 1: they still here? And there wasn't communication afterwards, and they

498
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:37,320
Speaker 1: didn't want us to because you know, to some extent,

499
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:39,160
Speaker 1: they didn't really want us to be able to hear

500
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 1: about what's it like on the other side once you've

501
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:45,640
Speaker 1: given your child away. Why was it called the Liberty

502
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 1: god Parent Home? What was the god parents part of it?

503
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 1: The god parent home? The idea was that they are

504
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:56,560
Speaker 1: saving babies and essentially kind of becoming their god parents

505
00:30:56,680 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 1: and taking care of babies. You know, I have a

506
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 1: number of mixed failings about all of that part, partly

507
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:06,600
Speaker 1: because I was a part of that Liberty Godparent Home

508
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 1: didn't save any babies. Although I understand the drive with

509
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 1: people who are anti abortion to want to save babies.

510
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:20,640
Speaker 1: I understand that. But Liberty Guard god parent Home didn't

511
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:23,480
Speaker 1: even accept you in the home until you were past

512
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 1: the period where you could even have an abortion. And

513
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:28,640
Speaker 1: then there's of course the other whole idea of that,

514
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 1: of the fact that you know, a baby raised by

515
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:34,480
Speaker 1: a single mom. Isn't you know, that's not okay that

516
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 1: we should take these babies and put them in home,

517
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:40,160
Speaker 1: you know, with two parents. But you know, it was

518
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 1: the nineteen well, early nineties at that point. It's so

519
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:47,960
Speaker 1: interesting because you just said it was the early nineties.

520
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 1: You could have said it was the early nineteen fifties.

521
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 1: You're right, because it was. Actually it wasn't you know,

522
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:58,520
Speaker 1: it wasn't the nineteen fifties. It was it was that

523
00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:02,120
Speaker 1: time period. But yeah, and I very much felt like

524
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 1: I was caught up in that now looking back, you know,

525
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:10,480
Speaker 1: kind of after we moved to to Higgerstown, so that

526
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:14,080
Speaker 1: was the culture, you know, and the understanding is that

527
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 1: I'm going to place my baby for adoption, and you

528
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:21,239
Speaker 1: had some agency, so to speak, in the choice of

529
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:25,520
Speaker 1: adoptive parents. So you know, when you say agency, it's

530
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:28,800
Speaker 1: an interesting word because never once did anybody say you

531
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:30,880
Speaker 1: have to do this and you have no no choice.

532
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:33,840
Speaker 1: It was always we're going to help you make your decision.

533
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 1: And there was no help with how could you bring

534
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 1: a baby home? How could you not place your baby

535
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 1: for adoption? But there was this idea that you were

536
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:48,960
Speaker 1: making this choice and they were going to help you

537
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:51,600
Speaker 1: make this choice. Now, my mom did send me a

538
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:54,440
Speaker 1: letter that was very clear when I was in the

539
00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:59,200
Speaker 1: home that if I were to try or want to

540
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:02,800
Speaker 1: bring this baby home, that our relationship as mother and

541
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 1: daughter would forever be changed. Um And ultimately, I think

542
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:08,720
Speaker 1: a lot of the guilt and shame that I took

543
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 1: with me after this whole process was a feeling like

544
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:17,400
Speaker 1: I had somehow chosen my mother over my child. And

545
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 1: for me, that didn't feel okay. But I felt that

546
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:25,960
Speaker 1: I had to choose her over my child because I

547
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:28,440
Speaker 1: didn't know how to do anything differently. I didn't know

548
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:30,719
Speaker 1: how I could leave and run off to the castle

549
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:34,720
Speaker 1: and take care of, you know, my baby. So you know,

550
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 1: we had therapy and we had a process of making

551
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:43,920
Speaker 1: your decision, and then you know, when I said what

552
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:46,360
Speaker 1: what I was supposed to say? Which is our place

553
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:48,720
Speaker 1: my baby? Then they presented me with a book with

554
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 1: pictures of really kind looking couples, and I remember thinking

555
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:56,240
Speaker 1: of that time. My parents would never pick a babysitter

556
00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:58,880
Speaker 1: for me by looking at a bunch of pictures of girls,

557
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 1: And yeah, I'm picking parents from my child by looking

558
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:07,480
Speaker 1: at a bunch of pictures. And maybe it's a paragraph

559
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:10,600
Speaker 1: about who they are. And so I picked the nice

560
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:15,279
Speaker 1: looking couple and waited for my baby to be born.

561
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:21,040
Speaker 1: When Zoe goes into labor, she's in a therapy session

562
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 1: at the home. Her therapist, Jamie, is the one who

563
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 1: takes her to the hospital. No one else is available. Jamie,

564
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:31,960
Speaker 1: a young social worker in her twenties, shuffles Zoe into

565
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:34,600
Speaker 1: her cool little sports car, but first she puts a

566
00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:37,520
Speaker 1: plastic bag on the car seat, just in case Zoe's

567
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:42,439
Speaker 1: water brakes. And so I'm getting in this you know car,

568
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:46,759
Speaker 1: sitting on this plastic bag. I'm, you know, sixteen, and

569
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:49,520
Speaker 1: I have no idea what I'm in store for. But Jamie,

570
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 1: bless her heart, sat with me through probably at least

571
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:56,680
Speaker 1: half of my labor, at least four hours, until my

572
00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:59,360
Speaker 1: mom could drive to get there. Now, prior to my

573
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:03,279
Speaker 1: mom getting there, a nurse had given me some um

574
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:07,400
Speaker 1: pain medication. It was just a pill. Nobody offered me

575
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:10,319
Speaker 1: an epidural. Nobody offered me anything else that They did

576
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:12,239
Speaker 1: offer me some pill, and I took the pill and

577
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:14,560
Speaker 1: it did seem to help a little bit. By the

578
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:16,000
Speaker 1: time my mom got there, I was really in the

579
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:20,000
Speaker 1: throes of labor and Jamie took off, and I had

580
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:25,160
Speaker 1: asked for something for the pain, and my mom just

581
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:28,600
Speaker 1: shook her head, just just shook her head. Now what

582
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:30,759
Speaker 1: did you make of that shake of your mother's head.

583
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 1: I just internalized it as I deserved this, I needed

584
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:37,400
Speaker 1: to feel it. I needed to experience all of the

585
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:39,600
Speaker 1: pain of what I had. You know, this was my

586
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:44,920
Speaker 1: punishment that I shouldn't be relieved of this experience. And

587
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:48,839
Speaker 1: I think, probably to some extent, that is true. My mother,

588
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:51,560
Speaker 1: though in her defense, she had all three of her

589
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:57,800
Speaker 1: children without pain medication, But in that moment, I perceived

590
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:00,360
Speaker 1: it as no, you don't get to have at And

591
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 1: I just remember the deep shame I felt in that

592
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:06,200
Speaker 1: moment when my mom shook her head no, And I

593
00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 1: went through the rest of my labor. You know, without

594
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:14,360
Speaker 1: any pain medication, and so my daughter was born, and

595
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:18,680
Speaker 1: you know, it was just such a sober, just a sober,

596
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:22,640
Speaker 1: such a sober experience. You know, there was no excitement,

597
00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:26,640
Speaker 1: there was no congratulations. You know, they weren't smiled. I think,

598
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:28,600
Speaker 1: no matter how old you are, when you have a child,

599
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:34,160
Speaker 1: you're not prepared for the aftermath, you know, the war

600
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:37,440
Speaker 1: zone that your body is. But I think there was

601
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 1: a level of trauma that was probably increased after that

602
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:45,160
Speaker 1: experience because I was so young, and um. I just

603
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:49,200
Speaker 1: remember seeing my body, you know, the day after and

604
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:54,399
Speaker 1: just thinking what what have I done? And the thing

605
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:56,440
Speaker 1: with the home is once you have the baby, they

606
00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:59,319
Speaker 1: want you to leave as soon as possible. They don't

607
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:01,839
Speaker 1: want you to stay for obvious reasons. They don't want

608
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:03,400
Speaker 1: you to connect with the baby, they don't want you

609
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:05,759
Speaker 1: to change your mind. And my mom was totally on

610
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:08,760
Speaker 1: board for all of that. The social worker from the

611
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:10,799
Speaker 1: agency came and said, it's better if you just leave

612
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:15,400
Speaker 1: as soon as possible. I remember there was this doctor,

613
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:19,879
Speaker 1: that's young doctor. Um. I was in the room and

614
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:22,799
Speaker 1: my daughter, I named her Kaya. Her name is different now,

615
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:25,040
Speaker 1: but I don't know if I was holding her, if

616
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:27,080
Speaker 1: she was in the bassinet that he just kind of

617
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:29,040
Speaker 1: flew into the room and he was like a breath

618
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:31,520
Speaker 1: of fresh air, and he was all smiled, and he

619
00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:34,880
Speaker 1: congratulated me, and he said, what a beautiful baby I have,

620
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:37,200
Speaker 1: what a wonderful mom I'm going to be. He did

621
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:39,960
Speaker 1: all of her vitals and just wished me the best

622
00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:43,400
Speaker 1: and left the room. And I remember thinking he didn't

623
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:46,839
Speaker 1: see in the file, he didn't see that I'm placing her.

624
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 1: And I remember just thinking, I hope that he never

625
00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:54,960
Speaker 1: reads that. I hope that that stays a reality somewhere

626
00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:58,680
Speaker 1: in his mind forever, because he was the only brightness.

627
00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:00,760
Speaker 1: You know, everybody else was just bar all the nurses

628
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:03,239
Speaker 1: and everybody that came in because they knew that I

629
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:08,280
Speaker 1: was placing her. So we packed up really quickly, and

630
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:11,160
Speaker 1: I did that walk. I don't know, I don't know

631
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:14,120
Speaker 1: how better to explain. It was just like a walk

632
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:18,560
Speaker 1: towards death, almost, you know, I was conscious of every

633
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:21,400
Speaker 1: single step as I was left the hospital that I

634
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:30,360
Speaker 1: was putting distance between myself and my baby. Zoe and

635
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:33,440
Speaker 1: her mother head downstairs to leave the hospital. So we

636
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:35,839
Speaker 1: waits by the exit while her mother goes to get

637
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:39,680
Speaker 1: the car. And then suddenly her mom zips around the

638
00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:43,760
Speaker 1: corner in a brand new vehicle, a shiny red Pontiac Fiero,

639
00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:49,800
Speaker 1: a push present for her daughter, and I remember thinking,

640
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 1: of course, it's a two seater. I couldn't bring a

641
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:57,719
Speaker 1: baby home if I wanted to. And she presented me

642
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:00,759
Speaker 1: with my present, which I suppose was supposed to be

643
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:04,360
Speaker 1: for my sixteenth birthday, and I remember thanking her and

644
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:07,200
Speaker 1: hugging her and crying. Although I wasn't crying because I

645
00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:09,560
Speaker 1: got a new sports car. I was crying, of course,

646
00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:13,640
Speaker 1: because of all of what was transpiring in that moment.

647
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:16,680
Speaker 1: And we got in my new sports car and we

648
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:20,759
Speaker 1: drove away. Before we got home, we stopped at a

649
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:23,320
Speaker 1: hotel and we had to stay there for a few days,

650
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:27,120
Speaker 1: and my mom bought girdles to put around me so that,

651
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:29,839
Speaker 1: you know, nobody could tell that I was pregnant when

652
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:33,359
Speaker 1: I got back home. And I went back home, and yes,

653
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:38,680
Speaker 1: I did my very best to try to pretend like

654
00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:42,200
Speaker 1: everything was normal. And a couple of months later, my

655
00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:46,120
Speaker 1: mom took me to a restaurant um and sat down

656
00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:49,880
Speaker 1: and told me that the home that I had picked

657
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:53,040
Speaker 1: for my daughter, that the parents had changed their minds,

658
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:56,319
Speaker 1: and all this time I thought she was with them.

659
00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:59,279
Speaker 1: And I found out that she and fact left the

660
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:03,560
Speaker 1: hospital to go to foster home because that was the

661
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:06,319
Speaker 1: way they did it. Then that the baby doesn't go

662
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:08,440
Speaker 1: directly into the foster home. I don't know what it

663
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:11,160
Speaker 1: has to do with paperwork or whatever, so she left

664
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:15,680
Speaker 1: or I'm also not clear if maybe there wasn't actually

665
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 1: a family, you know, I don't know that information. But ultimately,

666
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:23,759
Speaker 1: my daughter was a few months old and had been

667
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:27,360
Speaker 1: raised by strangers who were never going to keep her. Meanwhile,

668
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:30,759
Speaker 1: I'm living in this three story, you know, home with

669
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:35,120
Speaker 1: this family, and my daughter's in foster care. So my

670
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 1: mom told me that the parents changed their mind and

671
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:43,239
Speaker 1: that they had another set of parents, and I had

672
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:48,600
Speaker 1: to sign some paperwork two agree that this next set

673
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:54,640
Speaker 1: of parents could have her instead. And I remember looking

674
00:40:54,680 --> 00:41:00,319
Speaker 1: at my mom and I remember saying, can we just

675
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:03,799
Speaker 1: go get her? Please? Can we just go get her?

676
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:08,520
Speaker 1: And my mom said nothing, She just shook her head

677
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:11,880
Speaker 1: and I didn't say anything else, and I you know,

678
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:14,120
Speaker 1: I kicked myself for a while after that because I thought,

679
00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:16,200
Speaker 1: you know, when I was little, I would beg my

680
00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:18,439
Speaker 1: mom if I wanted to go stay at a friend's house. Mom,

681
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:21,319
Speaker 1: Please please please. I learned how to say, you know, please, please, please,

682
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:25,239
Speaker 1: until sometimes she'd give it, and I kind of I

683
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:27,360
Speaker 1: kind of kicked myself because I feel like I didn't

684
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:30,920
Speaker 1: fight hard enough. I said it, but I know that

685
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:32,840
Speaker 1: that there was so much shame in that it was

686
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:37,680
Speaker 1: hard for me to even ask her please. And you know,

687
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:41,520
Speaker 1: when she denied me, I guess there just wasn't enough

688
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:44,880
Speaker 1: fight in me to try to push more. Do you

689
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:47,680
Speaker 1: think it would have made any difference. I don't know.

690
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:55,000
Speaker 1: I doubt it. Time marches inexorably forward. Zoe goes to

691
00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:58,440
Speaker 1: college and eventually marries a man twenty years for senior.

692
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:02,120
Speaker 1: Her daddy lust, the kind women so often feel when

693
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:06,319
Speaker 1: their own fathers have been withholding dictating her choices. She

694
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:09,480
Speaker 1: does tell her husband about her secret history, but his

695
00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:13,600
Speaker 1: response isn't exactly freeing. He basically just wants to pretend

696
00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:19,080
Speaker 1: that it never happened. Sound familiar. Now, As a therapist,

697
00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:22,040
Speaker 1: Zoe understands so much more about the choices we make.

698
00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:25,600
Speaker 1: They tend to underscore the feelings we already have about ourselves.

699
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:29,840
Speaker 1: In this case, his reaction just deepens the red in

700
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:33,480
Speaker 1: her scarlet letter. They move forward, leaving the past in

701
00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:37,320
Speaker 1: the past and start their family life, having two sons

702
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:41,240
Speaker 1: and then a daughter. And of course, you know, after

703
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:44,799
Speaker 1: giving up my daughter, there's always a part of me

704
00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:48,879
Speaker 1: that wanted to have a daughter um of my own

705
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:50,400
Speaker 1: that I could keep, and so we were all so

706
00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:53,440
Speaker 1: very excited. I feel like, both my mom and I

707
00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:55,279
Speaker 1: and everyone in the family this was going to be

708
00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:58,440
Speaker 1: the only daughter, because my brother had three sons and

709
00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:01,080
Speaker 1: I had had two sons, and I think there was

710
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:03,640
Speaker 1: a sense of exoneration when we found out I was

711
00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:06,880
Speaker 1: having a girl. But unfortunately, when my daughter was born,

712
00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:09,000
Speaker 1: we didn't know at the time, but she was born

713
00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:12,319
Speaker 1: with the severe genetic disorder called crowd Willy syndrome, and

714
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:15,440
Speaker 1: she was in the nicke and barely surviving for many weeks.

715
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:21,160
Speaker 1: And I felt this crushing sense of I am being punished,

716
00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:23,839
Speaker 1: and now my daughter is being punished. Of course, God

717
00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:26,000
Speaker 1: wouldn't give me a healthy baby girl. Of course, it's

718
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:27,680
Speaker 1: kind of a trick. And I sat with that for

719
00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:31,880
Speaker 1: many years, and so yes, then you know, I dove

720
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:35,920
Speaker 1: into being a mom of a special needs child and

721
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:38,040
Speaker 1: trying to grapple with that in all of my shame

722
00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:40,720
Speaker 1: and my guilt surrounding that for a number of years.

723
00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:46,600
Speaker 1: Here Zoe is again faced with intense shame and the

724
00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:51,360
Speaker 1: sense that she's being punished, as well as a profound loneliness,

725
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:54,480
Speaker 1: the isolation that comes from raising a child with special needs,

726
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:57,719
Speaker 1: and to this the heavy guilt she still carries from

727
00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:00,759
Speaker 1: her secret child, the healthy daughter she had given birth

728
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:05,040
Speaker 1: to years ago. All moms, you know, we have our

729
00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:07,400
Speaker 1: own built about all things with our parenting. If I

730
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:09,680
Speaker 1: had not eaten this, if I had done this differently,

731
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:12,520
Speaker 1: you know, if if if with any issues that our

732
00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:16,399
Speaker 1: kids might have, but and special needs moms, I think

733
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:20,000
Speaker 1: have another layer of that. And then I additionally had

734
00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:24,759
Speaker 1: another layer on top of that that wasn't healthy for me.

735
00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:27,200
Speaker 1: And it certainly wasn't healthy I think for for my

736
00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:31,640
Speaker 1: daughter for an number of years because I just parented

737
00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:35,600
Speaker 1: her with just so much guilt. But yeah, that those

738
00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:38,160
Speaker 1: layers were definitely there, and they were in silence because

739
00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:41,759
Speaker 1: none of my friends knew. My very best friends, she

740
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:44,240
Speaker 1: and I went through both of our early pregnancies together,

741
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:46,200
Speaker 1: and she thought that we both went through our very

742
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:49,880
Speaker 1: first pregnancy together. So yes, nobody knew, and so a

743
00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:54,120
Speaker 1: lot of that was very much kept in secret, but

744
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:58,840
Speaker 1: so we manages. She's strong, stronger than her secrets. She

745
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:02,120
Speaker 1: built her very busy family life and is thriving in

746
00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:06,800
Speaker 1: her career as a psychotherapist as well. And one day, well,

747
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:11,399
Speaker 1: one day, her birth daughter finds her and reaches out.

748
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:19,400
Speaker 1: Her name is Sarah. She found me through Facebook. Um,

749
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:23,000
Speaker 1: she actually found her father first because I was private

750
00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:26,440
Speaker 1: on Facebook. I don't remember how she found out his

751
00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:31,000
Speaker 1: name because it was a closed adoption. There were letters

752
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:34,560
Speaker 1: that went back and forth for the first year too,

753
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:40,040
Speaker 1: and identifying information was blacked out, but sometimes they went

754
00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:42,040
Speaker 1: felt great about blacking out some of the things. I mean,

755
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:44,160
Speaker 1: someone in the agency would just go through with the

756
00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:46,040
Speaker 1: marker and just black things out and then they'd spend

757
00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:50,480
Speaker 1: it off, you know. Um, so maybe that's how she

758
00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:55,040
Speaker 1: was doing some detective work. Clearly correct. Yes, And she

759
00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:58,880
Speaker 1: found him. And I was homeschooling my kids in the

760
00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:01,360
Speaker 1: middle of a normal homeschool day and I get a

761
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:05,680
Speaker 1: call from Denny, who I rarely ever heard from, um,

762
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:09,680
Speaker 1: and he said, I have our daughter on the line.

763
00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:12,920
Speaker 1: And I remember I just just my feet just left

764
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:14,600
Speaker 1: from under man. Before I knew it, I was just

765
00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:18,439
Speaker 1: plopped straight down on the ground, um, and I heard

766
00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:23,160
Speaker 1: her voice and she said Hi, as simple as that

767
00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:28,080
Speaker 1: eighteen years later, you know. And so we started a conversation.

768
00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:30,440
Speaker 1: And I remember I went into my closet and I

769
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:32,280
Speaker 1: shut the door, and I thanked down on the closet

770
00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:34,839
Speaker 1: floor and I was talking to her and whispers because

771
00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:38,680
Speaker 1: remember nobody, my kids don't know, um, that they have

772
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:41,959
Speaker 1: a sibling out there. Um. But Sarah and I began

773
00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:45,040
Speaker 1: to get to know each other, and eventually we met

774
00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:49,560
Speaker 1: for the first time. I told my husband and he was,

775
00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:53,000
Speaker 1: you know, not very interested in any of it, and

776
00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:56,960
Speaker 1: certainly didn't want us to tell the kids. UM. So

777
00:46:57,239 --> 00:46:58,719
Speaker 1: we told the kids that I was going on a

778
00:46:58,719 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 1: business trip, and I went on my business trip and

779
00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 1: that my daughter for the first time. What was it

780
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:10,520
Speaker 1: like to meet her? Oh, you know, I was at

781
00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:14,120
Speaker 1: the airport and I was downstairs and she was coming

782
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:16,360
Speaker 1: from upstairs. I was waiting for her, and I was

783
00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:20,080
Speaker 1: looking at the escalator, kind of waiting, and it almost

784
00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:22,279
Speaker 1: it's kind of crazy, but I don't felt like she

785
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:25,360
Speaker 1: was descending from heaven. I could see her just coming

786
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:30,680
Speaker 1: slowly down on the escalator. It was just I can

787
00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:33,879
Speaker 1: only say, maybe it was like coming home. I saw

788
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:38,000
Speaker 1: parts of her in parts of a vinny. And the

789
00:47:38,120 --> 00:47:42,320
Speaker 1: interesting thing though, is that I was so shut down.

790
00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:48,280
Speaker 1: I think from so many years that I wasn't able

791
00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:52,080
Speaker 1: to emote. I wasn't able to cry. I saw her

792
00:47:52,239 --> 00:47:55,600
Speaker 1: and we hugged and I smiled, and she was crying,

793
00:47:56,280 --> 00:47:59,560
Speaker 1: and I just felt this damn like this wall. And

794
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:02,600
Speaker 1: I remember, are feeling Zoe, why can't you cry? Why

795
00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:05,600
Speaker 1: can't you feel anything? Um? And I mean I know

796
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:09,360
Speaker 1: now and I understand the process, but um, in that moment,

797
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:12,200
Speaker 1: I couldn't. Later, when we were talking in the restaurant,

798
00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:15,200
Speaker 1: I you know, as we begin to talk about things,

799
00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:17,680
Speaker 1: I was able to kind of attach to some emotion,

800
00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:20,279
Speaker 1: but in that moment I just felt so closed up.

801
00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:24,279
Speaker 1: Well it's it's understandable because you had been taught that

802
00:48:24,360 --> 00:48:27,040
Speaker 1: again and again and again. The only way to survive

803
00:48:27,239 --> 00:48:31,080
Speaker 1: is to close it off and shut it down exactly.

804
00:48:34,239 --> 00:48:37,200
Speaker 1: Zoe tells her mother that Sarah has found her. She

805
00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:39,520
Speaker 1: lets her know she plans to meet her birth daughter.

806
00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:44,080
Speaker 1: She isn't exactly asking for permission, but Zoe and her

807
00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:47,000
Speaker 1: mother seemed to reach a tacit agreement that the secret

808
00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:51,560
Speaker 1: needs to remain secret. That Zoe won't tell her kids. Later,

809
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:54,719
Speaker 1: Sarah also reaches out to Zoe's parents. They are her

810
00:48:54,719 --> 00:48:58,200
Speaker 1: grandparents after all, and they begin to develop a relationship

811
00:48:58,239 --> 00:49:02,920
Speaker 1: of sorts, not exactly like family, more like family adjacent.

812
00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:09,160
Speaker 1: How did they receive her? My parents are very polite.

813
00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:12,360
Speaker 1: I don't know that i'd say they were overly welcoming,

814
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:15,319
Speaker 1: But there wasn't any negativity. There wasn't I don't think

815
00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:17,680
Speaker 1: that there was any desire to push her away. My

816
00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:22,359
Speaker 1: parents are very well mannered, polite people, and so they

817
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:26,680
Speaker 1: met her, and they welcomed her. When I say welcome,

818
00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:29,160
Speaker 1: I don't really like that word, because they didn't welcome

819
00:49:29,239 --> 00:49:31,040
Speaker 1: it her into our family. They weren't going to tell

820
00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:33,839
Speaker 1: anybody about her, but they were willing to meet her.

821
00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:39,279
Speaker 1: So they still intended to absolutely keep this a secret. Yes,

822
00:49:41,080 --> 00:49:43,839
Speaker 1: For a few years, Zoe continues to get to know Sarah,

823
00:49:44,040 --> 00:49:47,759
Speaker 1: meeting her clandestinely, sneaking away telling her kids she's going

824
00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:52,239
Speaker 1: to visit a friend. But then Zoe's father dies suddenly

825
00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:55,760
Speaker 1: of a heart attack, and now, as happens with secrets,

826
00:49:56,239 --> 00:50:00,239
Speaker 1: another layer emerges. Because Sarah is going to go to

827
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:04,160
Speaker 1: her grandfather's funeral. Of course, she is she's now twenty

828
00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:07,120
Speaker 1: one years old, and there's a very good chance that's

829
00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:12,360
Speaker 1: always children will cross paths with her, you know, in

830
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:15,600
Speaker 1: the midst of my dad dying so suddenly and me,

831
00:50:16,040 --> 00:50:19,000
Speaker 1: you know, needing to fly to the East coast, and

832
00:50:19,640 --> 00:50:21,040
Speaker 1: you know, my husband didn't want me to bring the

833
00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:24,239
Speaker 1: kids because one of the first things he said was,

834
00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:27,520
Speaker 1: is Sarah going to be there? So, you know, I

835
00:50:27,560 --> 00:50:30,239
Speaker 1: called Sara and let her know that my father had passed,

836
00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:32,840
Speaker 1: and of course she expected to be at the funeral.

837
00:50:33,719 --> 00:50:36,759
Speaker 1: You know, my mother was in shock. Um she was

838
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:39,520
Speaker 1: not obviously in a good place at all. And I

839
00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:42,440
Speaker 1: get home to Maryland and it's the day before the funeral,

840
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:47,960
Speaker 1: and my mind is racing, and I remember saying to

841
00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:54,239
Speaker 1: my mom, I'm going to tell my children about Sarah

842
00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:58,080
Speaker 1: and my mother. She looked at me, but she didn't

843
00:50:58,120 --> 00:51:00,480
Speaker 1: look at me. She looked through me. And remember her

844
00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:03,480
Speaker 1: eyes were just dead, and she just turned around and

845
00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:07,920
Speaker 1: walked upstairs. And I remember that's the first time I

846
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:10,080
Speaker 1: felt I felt like a child, because I felt like

847
00:51:10,080 --> 00:51:12,239
Speaker 1: I was making this decision all by myself. And it

848
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:15,560
Speaker 1: was the first decision an opposition that I was making

849
00:51:15,880 --> 00:51:18,959
Speaker 1: all by myself, and I did. I gathered my kids

850
00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:22,480
Speaker 1: up and I brought them upstairs and I told them,

851
00:51:22,520 --> 00:51:25,360
Speaker 1: I have something to tell you. You have an older sister.

852
00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:29,920
Speaker 1: Remember those words, you know you have an older sister.

853
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:34,120
Speaker 1: There are five simple words, and they escaped my lips,

854
00:51:34,120 --> 00:51:35,759
Speaker 1: and I remember just feeling like I wanted to grab

855
00:51:35,800 --> 00:51:38,200
Speaker 1: them and pull them back. And I watched, you know,

856
00:51:38,239 --> 00:51:40,719
Speaker 1: the effect of them on my kids, and you know,

857
00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:43,120
Speaker 1: initially they were just like what and they were excited,

858
00:51:43,160 --> 00:51:45,760
Speaker 1: and I asked me tens and times of questions. Over time,

859
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:48,680
Speaker 1: I saw a donning in my thirteen year old eyes

860
00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:52,600
Speaker 1: that was like, oh, my mother's alied to me. But

861
00:51:52,680 --> 00:51:54,879
Speaker 1: that took some time, and that took some working through

862
00:51:54,920 --> 00:51:58,680
Speaker 1: with him. So I told them, and I remember feeling like,

863
00:51:59,160 --> 00:52:01,319
Speaker 1: on some level, like this way have been lifted off

864
00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:06,200
Speaker 1: and I am becoming a adult for the very first time.

865
00:52:06,239 --> 00:52:09,080
Speaker 1: I knew my husband would be horribly upset, and I

866
00:52:09,160 --> 00:52:12,319
Speaker 1: chose not to ask him before I told him afterwards,

867
00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:15,319
Speaker 1: and that started a whole another cascade of of of

868
00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:22,480
Speaker 1: problems in our marriage. Um but I felt so reborn,

869
00:52:23,520 --> 00:52:26,680
Speaker 1: and then the next day I had to tell my family.

870
00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:31,480
Speaker 1: So we had the actual funeral at the church so

871
00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:33,479
Speaker 1: we showed up at the church and Sarah was there,

872
00:52:33,880 --> 00:52:37,960
Speaker 1: and um, she sat in front of us with my kids,

873
00:52:37,960 --> 00:52:40,320
Speaker 1: and for the first time I had all of my children,

874
00:52:40,360 --> 00:52:44,680
Speaker 1: all five of them with me sitting there at my

875
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:48,400
Speaker 1: dad's funeral. Nobody knew who she was. I didn't introduce

876
00:52:48,440 --> 00:52:50,759
Speaker 1: her to anyone. There's just a lot of you know,

877
00:52:51,160 --> 00:52:54,279
Speaker 1: just a lot of sadness and and and all the

878
00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:56,600
Speaker 1: things that happened at a funeral. Well, after the funeral,

879
00:52:56,640 --> 00:52:59,520
Speaker 1: we went to my sister's home and that's where our

880
00:52:59,560 --> 00:53:04,359
Speaker 1: family was, so my extended family, my aunts and uncle

881
00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:09,719
Speaker 1: is my everybody. And Sarah came and I took a

882
00:53:09,760 --> 00:53:12,440
Speaker 1: deep breath, and in the middle of everybody standing there

883
00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:15,960
Speaker 1: in the living room, I said, I have somebody I

884
00:53:15,960 --> 00:53:18,560
Speaker 1: want to introduce you to. My mother just kind of

885
00:53:18,560 --> 00:53:22,640
Speaker 1: snuck away and I told them, you know, this is

886
00:53:22,680 --> 00:53:25,759
Speaker 1: my daughter, Sarah. I gave birth to her when I

887
00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:28,120
Speaker 1: was sixteen years old, and I placed her for adoption,

888
00:53:28,760 --> 00:53:32,960
Speaker 1: and I want you guys to meet her. Even as

889
00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:34,520
Speaker 1: I say it, it just makes me feel kind of

890
00:53:34,520 --> 00:53:39,120
Speaker 1: breathy because it was such a huge monumental thing for

891
00:53:39,160 --> 00:53:42,080
Speaker 1: me to do. And I know that my mother never

892
00:53:42,120 --> 00:53:43,719
Speaker 1: would have done it. She would have been fine to

893
00:53:43,800 --> 00:53:46,719
Speaker 1: just pretend like Sarah was a friend. And the very

894
00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:50,080
Speaker 1: last thing I could or would do would be allow

895
00:53:50,239 --> 00:53:53,759
Speaker 1: my daughter to participate in this secret. She knew she

896
00:53:53,840 --> 00:53:57,279
Speaker 1: was a secret, but I wasn't going to ask her

897
00:53:59,040 --> 00:54:03,480
Speaker 1: to participate. Hate and holding the secret. And somehow, for

898
00:54:03,560 --> 00:54:05,560
Speaker 1: some reason, I don't know if it's a combination of

899
00:54:05,600 --> 00:54:11,279
Speaker 1: my father dying or just the reality of what I

900
00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:14,000
Speaker 1: was going to be continuing in my life and perpetrating

901
00:54:14,040 --> 00:54:18,239
Speaker 1: with my children if I didn't tell the truth and

902
00:54:18,320 --> 00:54:23,560
Speaker 1: speak the truth. And so I did it so powerful

903
00:54:24,480 --> 00:54:28,200
Speaker 1: in the period ongoing, you know, from then, you know

904
00:54:28,280 --> 00:54:32,680
Speaker 1: that that sense of having put down a burden that

905
00:54:33,280 --> 00:54:38,800
Speaker 1: maybe assumed a kind of greater and greater and greater weight,

906
00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:44,120
Speaker 1: because I think somehow secrets just get heavier and denser,

907
00:54:45,200 --> 00:54:49,440
Speaker 1: they take more maintenance, and they extend and and create

908
00:54:49,560 --> 00:54:53,120
Speaker 1: more need for more kinds of secrets. It's like it's

909
00:54:53,120 --> 00:54:55,800
Speaker 1: like cracks in the ice just getting you know, going,

910
00:54:56,520 --> 00:55:00,439
Speaker 1: you know, sort of fanning outward. And I'm wonder how

911
00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:05,680
Speaker 1: it's felt once you were able to put down that burden,

912
00:55:06,160 --> 00:55:10,360
Speaker 1: both you know, with your family, with your extended family,

913
00:55:10,840 --> 00:55:14,960
Speaker 1: and most of all, with yourself. Two have lived so

914
00:55:15,080 --> 00:55:20,759
Speaker 1: long with something so profoundly secretive and and not be

915
00:55:20,840 --> 00:55:24,760
Speaker 1: doing that anymore. I know people have said this before,

916
00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:27,040
Speaker 1: and in some ways it's so cliche, but you don't

917
00:55:27,120 --> 00:55:30,680
Speaker 1: really understand the weight of the burden until the burden

918
00:55:30,760 --> 00:55:33,759
Speaker 1: is taken off. It's two things that happened. I think

919
00:55:33,800 --> 00:55:37,880
Speaker 1: it's like those five words. I felt, you know, my

920
00:55:37,960 --> 00:55:41,239
Speaker 1: whole license. I was fifteen years old. If I had

921
00:55:41,239 --> 00:55:43,880
Speaker 1: spoken those words, that somehow the world was going to

922
00:55:43,960 --> 00:55:47,799
Speaker 1: fall apart, but everything would you know, would be destroyed,

923
00:55:47,840 --> 00:55:50,080
Speaker 1: That I destroyed people, I destroyed my family, that all

924
00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:52,520
Speaker 1: these horrible things would happen, and that I said those

925
00:55:52,560 --> 00:55:56,640
Speaker 1: five things and nothing happened. And so part of it

926
00:55:56,680 --> 00:56:03,239
Speaker 1: was like a realization that I was holding the secret unnecessarily.

927
00:56:03,320 --> 00:56:05,920
Speaker 1: I was holding the secret and an attempt to honor

928
00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:09,799
Speaker 1: my parents, an attempt to honor my husband, and it

929
00:56:09,880 --> 00:56:13,799
Speaker 1: was all for nothing, and the secret of itself had

930
00:56:13,840 --> 00:56:18,160
Speaker 1: created damage. And so I think that in addition to

931
00:56:18,560 --> 00:56:24,160
Speaker 1: the beautiful weight being lifted, it was that realization that

932
00:56:24,320 --> 00:56:29,759
Speaker 1: ultimately nobody cares. You know, people, you know, we hold

933
00:56:29,760 --> 00:56:32,880
Speaker 1: these secrets for for years and years, and we we

934
00:56:33,000 --> 00:56:34,960
Speaker 1: build them up to be something so much more than

935
00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:37,879
Speaker 1: they are. And yeah, people hear them and they might

936
00:56:37,920 --> 00:56:40,160
Speaker 1: go wow, and maybe they'll murmur for a few minutes.

937
00:56:40,200 --> 00:56:43,160
Speaker 1: But I've been holding that secret for decades, and someone's

938
00:56:43,160 --> 00:56:45,840
Speaker 1: going to talk about me for a minute. And so

939
00:56:46,600 --> 00:56:50,640
Speaker 1: I think it was that realization of the futility of

940
00:56:50,640 --> 00:56:52,640
Speaker 1: of keeping it, and yet I had done it for

941
00:56:52,680 --> 00:56:55,880
Speaker 1: so many years, and that just became, I think, a

942
00:56:56,000 --> 00:57:01,120
Speaker 1: driving passion for me to just continue in my authenticity,

943
00:57:01,640 --> 00:57:05,640
Speaker 1: continue on this path and and help other women as well.

944
00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:25,400
Speaker 1: Family Secrets is a production of I Heart Radio. Molly

945
00:57:25,480 --> 00:57:28,200
Speaker 1: z Achor is the story editor and Dylan Fagan is

946
00:57:28,200 --> 00:57:31,960
Speaker 1: the executive producer. If you have a family secret you'd

947
00:57:31,960 --> 00:57:34,440
Speaker 1: like to share, please leave us a voicemail and your

948
00:57:34,480 --> 00:57:37,880
Speaker 1: story could appear on an upcoming episode. Our number is

949
00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:42,520
Speaker 1: one eight eight Secret zero. That's the number zero. You

950
00:57:42,520 --> 00:57:47,240
Speaker 1: can also find me on Instagram at Danny writer. And

951
00:57:47,560 --> 00:57:49,120
Speaker 1: if you'd like to know more about the story that

952
00:57:49,200 --> 00:58:13,520
Speaker 1: inspired this podcast, check out my memoir Inheritance. For more

953
00:58:13,560 --> 00:58:16,439
Speaker 1: podcasts for my Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app,

954
00:58:16,480 --> 00:58:19,520
Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.