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Speaker 1: What's up, y'all, It's on pay bill here to give

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Speaker 1: you the latest quest. Love Supreme Classic episode Back in October,

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Speaker 1: Allen leads with a fifth guest on Quels. That conversation

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Speaker 1: which I heard you all to check out has been

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Speaker 1: re released, but even three hours down was not. He

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Speaker 1: came back for a two part interview. Here's Allen Leads

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Speaker 1: a second ql S appearance from right this one. He

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Speaker 1: talks a lot about it. Here's James crowd some really

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Speaker 1: great stuff about playing the Chiland circuit and put it together.

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Speaker 1: Those epic James Brown review shows. You can hear why

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Speaker 1: Allan Leads deserves three episodes. Episode one oh one. Enjoined

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Speaker 1: to volume dolls and hipp yats across the nation. This

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Speaker 1: is a special distide of course, Love I always wanted

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Speaker 1: to talk like uh like a fifties sixties radio jock

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Speaker 1: Uhlas and gentlemen, this is the quiet edition. Of course,

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Speaker 1: Love Supreme saw many crabs outside, so should be backing

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Speaker 1: about a mom. I'm the only smoker here and everybody

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Speaker 1: else right exactly, Ladies and gentlemen, Our guest today needs

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Speaker 1: absolutely no introduction. If you're a longtime fan of the show,

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Speaker 1: this is one of our rare repeat guests. In my opinion,

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Speaker 1: our guest today is probably one of the most organized

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Speaker 1: humans in show business. At least I'm like to believe

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Speaker 1: that you are. He's shaking his head right now, Denial.

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Speaker 1: I would say that he is the glue that really

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Speaker 1: ensures that you would have gotten your money's worth if

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Speaker 1: you are seeing your favorite act perform in concert. Speaking

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Speaker 1: of which which acts would they be? You can name

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Speaker 1: them all from Colony Gang, the Bootsies, Robert Van to Kiss,

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Speaker 1: to Print, whoever that is Uh, to Chris Rock, to

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Speaker 1: D'Angelo to Rathfiel Sadiq to Maxwell Uh and of course

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Speaker 1: the main reason that we're all gathered here today me

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Speaker 1: My name is Sugar. No, of course, I'm speaking of

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Speaker 1: his time with James Brown, which probably a domino effect

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Speaker 1: his long standing power um and offered him the credibility

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Speaker 1: to pretty much stand next to a kazillion geniuses and

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Speaker 1: in music, his book, Thank God, there's this book entitled

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Speaker 1: There Was a Time on post O Press, recently released

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Speaker 1: this late winter. It was it was late February. Okay, yes, yeah,

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Speaker 1: still we don't know that yet anyway, Um, yeah, There

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Speaker 1: Was the Time offers a rare glimpse into the world

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Speaker 1: of the Chipland circuit, or outside the Chipland circuit as

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Speaker 1: it morphed into regular show business for most R and

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Speaker 1: b X one of my favorite human beings on Earth.

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Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome, Alan leads back to screen. Were good.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, Alan. I'm Alan hates. That's where I get

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Speaker 1: it from. When you guys say that I assue compliments,

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Speaker 1: compliments and praise. Alan often cringes when I have to

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Speaker 1: say that as well. Not on the inside. Gwen tells

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Speaker 1: me it's because you don't know how to take compliments,

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Speaker 1: so you pretend you don't care. Trying to be cool.

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Speaker 1: Compliments are very hard. Um, I get it. Well, Steve,

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Speaker 1: you're a great guy than you everybody. So do you

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Speaker 1: how weird is it for you to be at this

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Speaker 1: phase in your career? Like, are you the type of

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Speaker 1: person that it was like when you write the book

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Speaker 1: this is sort of end of a life chapter or

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Speaker 1: I mean not to sound super morbid, but I just

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Speaker 1: mean usually like the people came to me writing books

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Speaker 1: like I was like, no, I have more life to

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Speaker 1: live and I'll save it for later. Yes and no,

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Speaker 1: okay no, because I started this book thirty years ago. Really, okay.

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Speaker 1: I actually thought it when my first marriage broke up

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Speaker 1: and I was sitting around nothing to do, and I said, okay,

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Speaker 1: at least diaries in papers and while it's frushing my mind,

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Speaker 1: let me start putting stuff down. Now. I couldn't write

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Speaker 1: a lick at that point. It was terrible because I've

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Speaker 1: got there. That was after. It was after. Even the

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Speaker 1: early line notes are pretty poorly written. But um, talking

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Speaker 1: about the payback, he thanks very much. I was asking

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Speaker 1: because that's the first one. He did write the line

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Speaker 1: of notes for the payback on the inside, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's gonna be a mother Damn. I forgot that. That worked. Ye,

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Speaker 1: that work. There was There was a James Brown called Hammer,

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, despite the title was Christmas record, and I

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Speaker 1: wrote the line notes for that, and a jew writtening

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Speaker 1: liner notes for a Christmas album. It's kind of an

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Speaker 1: anomally to start with. What did he ask you to write? Yeah? Really? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because back then, you know, you had to put information

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Speaker 1: on the back of the album. Well, he thought it

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Speaker 1: was a genius just because I could write publicity releases.

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Speaker 1: James Brown is coming to town and I could do that.

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Speaker 1: One page in newspapers would take it and fill their

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Speaker 1: pages up, and so he thought it was Shakespeare. Um

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Speaker 1: so he said, let so you started thirty years ago

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Speaker 1: writing in this book. Yeah, and it was. It was

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Speaker 1: the kind of thing where you know that original draft

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Speaker 1: besides of fact, they just poorly written. I'm looking to

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Speaker 1: the finished book. It's just um, that was a bunch

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Speaker 1: of drivel. It was really a tour diary. It was.

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Speaker 1: It was like personal tour diary in fifty percent James

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Speaker 1: Brown Body he was born and made that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 1: And as time went on, realized that the diary was

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Speaker 1: self indulgent and had a lot of stupid stuff that

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Speaker 1: was no interest to anybody, not even me. And um,

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Speaker 1: you know it was like what I had for breakfast

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Speaker 1: before the show was dumb stuff. This guy actually act.

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Speaker 1: But I was smoking a lot of weed that and

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Speaker 1: it's like so you kept note, see that's the thing

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Speaker 1: like I that was the horder So am I Yeah, Well, OK,

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Speaker 1: half my houses I think we knew that. Um No.

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Speaker 1: And when he left King Records for Paula Door Invent one,

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Speaker 1: we're cleaning out the office and there's tons of foul

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Speaker 1: cabinets full of old tiner hereies to routings, publicity pictures, UM,

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Speaker 1: all kinds of stuff, the kind of stuff you would

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Speaker 1: think would be in our office like that. And also

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Speaker 1: we're recording session reports UM music Union session reports with

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Speaker 1: dates and who plays what and that tracking sheets in

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Speaker 1: sessions like saying loud and Funky drummer. The original tracking

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Speaker 1: sheets were in the office. Yeah, not inside the real

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Speaker 1: box where they were probably copies in the real boxes.

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Speaker 1: But you know, it just meticulous with filing back, Like

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Speaker 1: how did you know to save all that stuff? Like

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Speaker 1: how did you know? Because I was a fanatic. It

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Speaker 1: was just I was already you're one of us. He

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Speaker 1: never did you already knew that of his history by then. No,

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Speaker 1: I knew. I wanted it. It was purely selfish, I

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Speaker 1: think it really, it really was. This comes from the

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Speaker 1: fact that he never had credits on his records right right,

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Speaker 1: So to a real fanatic, it was like, Okay, who's

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Speaker 1: the drummer around this session? Who's the guitar point this session?

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Speaker 1: Wouldn't did this guy leave the bands and replaced by

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Speaker 1: the next guy. I was that guy who wanted to

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Speaker 1: know who did everything on his records and here's the

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Speaker 1: Holy Grail, and it's a copy of the King Master Book,

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Speaker 1: which tells you the recording sessions and locations and dates

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Speaker 1: and what time of day and all that kind of crap.

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Speaker 1: So this is to somebody who was compiling the discography

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Speaker 1: that that never really dreamt anybody who gives a shit

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Speaker 1: about except me. But I wanted to know, so I

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Speaker 1: asked him. They're gonna trash all this stuff literally dump

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Speaker 1: put it in the dumpster because we're moving to New York,

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Speaker 1: well some of us to Augusta. That's all another story

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Speaker 1: that the book tells you about. But but and I

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Speaker 1: just said Mr Brown, can I And He's like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: something to somebody want to keep it? It's history. He

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Speaker 1: knew it was history. I knew it was a collection.

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Speaker 1: I wanted. It was like baseball cards to me, I

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Speaker 1: want the collection that was it? Okay? And of course

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Speaker 1: time went by and you begin to realize that this

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Speaker 1: is gonna be worth something. One as as his his

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Speaker 1: stardom becomes a kind of classtic and so on. Time

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Speaker 1: goes on. You really be getting to get this incident like, okay,

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Speaker 1: I really need to preserve this and documented properly and

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Speaker 1: so on. I mean, I've got a four hundred page

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Speaker 1: discography that has every session's produced and even has the

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Speaker 1: bootlegs of the concert recordings that I mean, it's it's

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Speaker 1: stupid little publishers that stuff. I mean, it's read it.

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Speaker 1: I'll read it an obsess over it. No, I'm serious,

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Speaker 1: it's very important that but it comes out exactly it's important.

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Speaker 1: So I can assume that if they can do for

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Speaker 1: the Beatles, they can do it for times as in

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Speaker 1: a side. Everybody I've talked to says, well, making a

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Speaker 1: coffee table book, you don't need all the details, And

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Speaker 1: I'm like, no, no, no, it's all about the details.

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Speaker 1: They just don't get it because they're just looking. It's

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Speaker 1: a research book. Yeah, it's not a coffee table book.

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Speaker 1: It's not for the casual casual fan. It's it's it's

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Speaker 1: for us. Right, So can I assume that the So

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Speaker 1: you really were the source of most of the information

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Speaker 1: in the startime box set. So you're so anytime I

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Speaker 1: read who was on what and blah blah blah. So

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Speaker 1: without that we would have just been guessing. Literally now,

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Speaker 1: mind you, as time would go on, every time they'd

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Speaker 1: have a session and This discontinued for years after I

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Speaker 1: stopped working for him. Um, I would call Fred Wesley

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Speaker 1: or David Matthews the arranger, and you know any sessions

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Speaker 1: lately where when, what did your record? Who was on

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Speaker 1: the session? I'm used to drive them crazy. Matthews talks

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Speaker 1: about it his wax poetic story. He's like only that

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Speaker 1: never really knew what he did, but he used to

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Speaker 1: drive me crazy about details of the sessions, and he

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Speaker 1: would write everything down. Um so yeah, do you have

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Speaker 1: any of the original charts or the charts also in

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Speaker 1: the office as well, like the horn arrangements and stuff.

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Speaker 1: So they just write them down and then leave him

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Speaker 1: at the studio. I think most of them were head

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Speaker 1: charts really, just you know, he would do recordings like

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Speaker 1: It's a Man the World with an arranger like Sammy Low,

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Speaker 1: and it wouldn't be his band. They were charts for that.

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Speaker 1: I never saw him the charts for that. I'm sure

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Speaker 1: David Matthews did charts for his arrangements. Um, but as

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Speaker 1: far as the the bulk of the hit records that

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Speaker 1: James would his own band, those were all head charts alright.

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Speaker 1: So then for James Brown himself, uh, would he could

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Speaker 1: I could. I say that, I'm assuming that he freestyle

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Speaker 1: a majority of this stuff, where like he just would

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Speaker 1: have an idea and right down four lines. And it

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Speaker 1: really varied. Um ofttimes there'd be an idea and many

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Speaker 1: times I shouldn't say, Matty, but quite a few times

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Speaker 1: ideas would come from having changed the arrangements of pruvious hits. Okay,

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Speaker 1: you know, like the vamp becomes the new song exactly, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I get it. I mean sex Machine came out of

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Speaker 1: a guitar lick that they were doing and give it up,

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Speaker 1: return it loose. At some point they changed the guitar

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Speaker 1: part and give it up, return it loose on the

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Speaker 1: road the road arrangement, and he liked that part and

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Speaker 1: ended up building a song around it was sex Machine.

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Speaker 1: I see. So then with but I'm saying, like what

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Speaker 1: I mean, a song that has actual lyrics like black

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Speaker 1: and proud. I'm certain it was notated on paper whatnot,

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Speaker 1: but then maybe maybe not, because the story goes I

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Speaker 1: wasn't at that session, but Charles Bobb it was, and

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Speaker 1: Bob a Dolt was claimed that it was a very

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Speaker 1: impulsive thing, like they were talking in a hotel late

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Speaker 1: at night, and Brown was staying, there needs to be

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Speaker 1: a song like this, and I've got a lyric, and

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Speaker 1: I suppose he went to pee and said, let's cook

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Speaker 1: something up around this lyric. And you know whether whether

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Speaker 1: they did it in the studio or the night before

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Speaker 1: in the hotel, on the bus or whatever. But but

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Speaker 1: I'm saying it has actual lyric structure. It's a poem, right,

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Speaker 1: but for something like escapism, doing it? Escape it? All right?

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Speaker 1: So alright, so Key's playing a song like escapism? Is

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Speaker 1: it Escapeism? A long version, I think it's it's like

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Speaker 1: a twenty minute it's ridiculous rap session where they just talk,

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Speaker 1: actually talk about that session in the book and tell

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Speaker 1: the whole story. But the short version is he was

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Speaker 1: out of the club in Cincinnati where the de Police

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Speaker 1: trio What's the House? But and this was a cocktail

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Speaker 1: trio ja as you know, soft jazz trio that mostly

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Speaker 1: played standards, and he used them for a couple of

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Speaker 1: records where he dreamt the bean Sinatra for a minute.

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Speaker 1: There was a time accident exactly exact example exactly. He

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Speaker 1: was hanging out at this club and somebody used the

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Speaker 1: word escape pism in the context of a casual conversation,

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Speaker 1: like they had a drink and said, you know what's

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Speaker 1: wrong to its kids. It's all escapism. They're not paying

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Speaker 1: attention to what's going on in the New world. So

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Speaker 1: and I just heard the horn squeal in my exactly.

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Speaker 1: He came into the studio the next day and I

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Speaker 1: was there. This wasn't an anti during one time. And

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Speaker 1: as a matter of fact, my brother Eric should be

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Speaker 1: here to tell his story because he actually said it

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Speaker 1: on the session. He didn't play, but but he was

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Speaker 1: in the booths the whole day. The session was for

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Speaker 1: and I know you got sold, Bobby Burn. Okay, we're

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Speaker 1: about to record very real quick exactly, that's what the

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Speaker 1: session was for. But James had this obsession with the

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Speaker 1: word escapeism. So he comes in the running over the trap,

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Speaker 1: which was ostensibly gonna be for a you Got Sold

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Speaker 1: and at some point Jesus bird, I'm gonna do this one,

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Speaker 1: and he had libbed to escape by sometimes I don't

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Speaker 1: down the night, abody looking for it, everybody looking for

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Speaker 1: the day. And according to Eric, who was actually in

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Speaker 1: the boots, I was in the office. I couldn't hang out.

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Speaker 1: It was during the afternoon so I had to be busy.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't just hang in the studio or you know,

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Speaker 1: how far is the studio from proximity for where the

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Speaker 1: home offices were the same building. It's just you know,

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Speaker 1: go down the hallway, go through a door, up a

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Speaker 1: ramp in your in the studio because you hear them

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Speaker 1: or was it like it was the studio there was

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Speaker 1: a warehouse between that you had to kind of walk around,

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Speaker 1: but it's in the same it's a huge factory like building.

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Speaker 1: So no, you couldn't hear a thing. But so Eric

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Speaker 1: was saying, yeah, so he was hearing, and he said

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Speaker 1: that that you know, James just loved the track and

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Speaker 1: he was dying to do something with this thing escapism,

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Speaker 1: and listened to the record, you realized there's, as you say,

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Speaker 1: there's a lyrical structure. It's just him, just him fucking

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Speaker 1: with the band and at the limping ship. And it

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Speaker 1: gets to the port where he's out of ideas. So

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Speaker 1: he starts walking around the studio asking who's where are

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Speaker 1: you from? You know? Okay, So when he does that, okay,

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Speaker 1: So during this period he does that a lot, a

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Speaker 1: lot on the JVS records, where he'll talk to jabbo

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Speaker 1: and talk to various members of the band. Where is

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Speaker 1: he holding a free mic in his hand as he's

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Speaker 1: doing it? Or is it like a traditional studio set

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Speaker 1: up that like, you know, are they like he set

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Speaker 1: up like his stage show? No? No, actually, a few

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Speaker 1: times I saw him record with the band. Um, probably

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Speaker 1: have dozen, It's not a dozen times. First he'd be

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Speaker 1: recording live, okay, and much to the engineer's chagrin, he'd

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Speaker 1: sacrificed separation in favor of chemistry, vibe chemistry. So ofttimes

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Speaker 1: the band was in like a semicircle and he would

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Speaker 1: just be in the middle so he didn't have to

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Speaker 1: walk with the mic. He could just you know, like

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Speaker 1: I'm talking to a mic now. And he was just

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Speaker 1: looking to hey, Jimmy from North Carolina, tell me about

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Speaker 1: old Carolina. What do you have for breakfast? Fred? Where

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Speaker 1: are you from? L A, Yeah, Lower Alabama? And to

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Speaker 1: you know, this is just what he did. Okay. The

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Speaker 1: track goes on and on and on, and of course

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Speaker 1: the group was ferocious, and um, he walks in the

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Speaker 1: I guess table was running out Ron Lenn HAPs the

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Speaker 1: engineer probably signaled to him like, yo, dude, you know

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Speaker 1: and he walks in and he says, whoa. And Eric

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Speaker 1: just wrote this down. He had to remember it, and

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Speaker 1: he says he could quote it perfectly. Um, he said.

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Speaker 1: He walks into Run looking up and he said, well, Run,

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Speaker 1: that's a long one. That's gotta be ten minutes. Ron said,

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Speaker 1: Mr Brown, it's twenty one minutes. And Brown looks at

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Speaker 1: him and said, well that's enough for part one, two, three,

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Speaker 1: four and five, all right. And so of course after

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Speaker 1: that they recorded I know you got so Old with

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Speaker 1: its own left because of right Eric, yeah, whatever else.

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Speaker 1: But the thing is is that they also do this live,

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Speaker 1: and at least on the live of the Apollo did

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Speaker 1: they often do Escapism live and recreate um because it's

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Speaker 1: almost like, yeah, it's sorry to recreate, but they kind

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Speaker 1: of matched on the Apollo record. Or he just knew,

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Speaker 1: here's something interesting. When we were going through tapes back

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Speaker 1: when the tape Vault was in Edison, New Jersey, and

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Speaker 1: we had access, We're doing Start Time and a few

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Speaker 1: of the other early CDs Harry and nine, Harry Executive

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Speaker 1: Universe A Universal, we would go to the tape Fault

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Speaker 1: and just spend days in there going through tapes and

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Speaker 1: my whole mission. Again, it's my discography, what's in the tapes,

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Speaker 1: what's on the tape boxes. So I'm just running around

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Speaker 1: and making copies because they had a studio there where

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Speaker 1: I could put the tapes up and burnt cededs or

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Speaker 1: not sorry, make exactly and um, you know. And this

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Speaker 1: all help because I'm listening to unishoot stuff that I

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Speaker 1: can then document in the discography as well as the

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Speaker 1: complete versions and stuff and get data. Anyway, long story short,

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Speaker 1: So we're going through the tapes for Revolution of the Mind,

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Speaker 1: which was the third live at the Apollo album, recorded

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Speaker 1: in seventy one, shortly after he joined poland Or Records.

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Speaker 1: They recorded eight shows and pulled from the eight shows

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Speaker 1: to sequency album. And yes, yeah, I mean I don't

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Speaker 1: think they used portions of all. Maybe they used portions

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Speaker 1: at two or three, but they had eight shows to

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Speaker 1: draw from, and no, I haven't listened to all eight shows.

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Speaker 1: But here's the point. Someday we'll do with deluxe version.

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Speaker 1: And you know then I've been on Harida. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's it's university there you go, so it'll come me

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Speaker 1: for you and bringing this up. But that's why I

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Speaker 1: bring it up. But here's here's the interesting thing. The

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Speaker 1: only show he did Escapeism, all the other shows are identical,

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Speaker 1: meeting the sequence is identical for all for the seven

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Speaker 1: of the eight shows. He only did Escapism on the

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Speaker 1: first show. Now, was that intentional because he wanted the

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Speaker 1: title on the album but it wasn't really part of

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Speaker 1: the show yet, or didn't he like cow it came off?

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Speaker 1: I can't tell you why. I can just tell you

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Speaker 1: that there's only one live version of that. Whereas we

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Speaker 1: had eight shows, there's one escape him Now after the

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Speaker 1: record came out and hit, it was in the show,

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Speaker 1: but very briefly, and I honestly can't remember what it

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Speaker 1: was like. I just I can hear the audience actually channing,

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Speaker 1: you know, the lyrics, which I was like, wow, like

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Speaker 1: they I'm just baffled that a spontaneous conversation is now

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Speaker 1: a hit single, or at least where people are repeating

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Speaker 1: a lyric back. That was actually my first thought when

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Speaker 1: I first heard. I was like, wow, this this this

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Speaker 1: was a hit record. Like it's strange people of course,

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Speaker 1: who did that? I mean, can you see this reading

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Speaker 1: I'm talking to Steve Cropper breakfast? Like that wasn't good

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Speaker 1: appen So for that particular album, do you remember, all right?

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Speaker 1: So if all the shows were recorded, um, were they

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Speaker 1: all done night after night? Or were these like, okay,

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Speaker 1: we'll record the twelve o'clock show, the three o'clock show,

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Speaker 1: now he was doing. But then instead of doing the

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Speaker 1: old four or five shows a day, he'd cut. He

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Speaker 1: convinced the Apollos that for his appearance as he would

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Speaker 1: just do to at night and maybe three on weekends,

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Speaker 1: so he would do at seven o'clock, in ten o'clock

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Speaker 1: something like that. And ye, when did that same thing

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Speaker 1: stop in the seventies or early seventies? So was it

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Speaker 1: that system for the live of the Apollo two albums?

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Speaker 1: So in nine was seven the apollowed. There was a

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Speaker 1: jun Juno sixties seven and they recorded two and a

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Speaker 1: half shows that we found. We have two complete shows

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Speaker 1: and about half of the third show. But what I'm

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Speaker 1: asking is for that particular run at the Apollo, was

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Speaker 1: that the one o'clock in the afternoon, the two o'clock,

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Speaker 1: the three o'clock. Yes, okay, So, and I don't think

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Speaker 1: we went through this the last time because I'm still

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Speaker 1: trying to imagine how you squeezing five shows with I'm

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Speaker 1: assuming that he at least had sort of a cavalcade

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Speaker 1: of at least four acts. I mean it's Bird doing

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Speaker 1: some solos. Yeah. In fact, on the deluxe edition, they

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Speaker 1: didn't record Bird sets, but they did get two songs

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Speaker 1: on tape and we used to we used to he

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Speaker 1: did Sweets Sold Music, Arthurchly Sweet sould Music. And did

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Speaker 1: we use a second track? Is? I don't think so? Um,

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Speaker 1: you got to change your mind or ye that later.

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Speaker 1: I think the only thing that we found with Sweets

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Speaker 1: Sold Music. But what I'm asking is he's not not

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Speaker 1: The show ran, yes, okay, the band would come out

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Speaker 1: and and this was the shorter Obviously, you're doing four

383
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Speaker 1: or five shows a day. They're shorter than you would

384
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Speaker 1: get in a arena or a concert hall where you're

385
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Speaker 1: just doing one show at eight o'clock, and the shows

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Speaker 1: would maybe run three hours. In the Apollos had run

387
00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:05,960
Speaker 1: maybe an hour forty five. Okay, okay, the band would

388
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Speaker 1: come out and just do one or two instrumentals, whereas

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Speaker 1: on tour they might do a half hour of instrumentals.

390
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Speaker 1: For example, the the the nine eight Boston show that's

391
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Speaker 1: on video, they recently discovered a reel with the instrumental

392
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:25,399
Speaker 1: set and they're doing five or six instrumentals before anything

393
00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:29,359
Speaker 1: happens the band is but in the Apollo they do

394
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Speaker 1: one or two just as a warm up. Okay, then

395
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Speaker 1: Brown would come out and all right, let me think back. Um,

396
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,159
Speaker 1: he would come out and he would would go right

397
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Speaker 1: into his his nightclub set where he does. That's life

398
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Speaker 1: for if I ruled the world in Kansas City. All right,

399
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:55,280
Speaker 1: now I'm trying fifteen minutes. I'm treating you as a

400
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Speaker 1: DVR right now, I'm pausing the show. So with someone

401
00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:05,439
Speaker 1: of his stature ego at least, why would he deflate

402
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:10,040
Speaker 1: the balloons early and not come out with a bang? Like?

403
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:15,000
Speaker 1: Why was startime so late? Where? Like was it even

404
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:18,920
Speaker 1: fan fair? He was just building out? Yes, absolutely so

405
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:21,359
Speaker 1: he would play. See what the m C would say, Now,

406
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:24,480
Speaker 1: surprised the star of the show, James Brown. He's blown

407
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:26,320
Speaker 1: out because who expects him to come on the show

408
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:28,720
Speaker 1: just started ten minutes ago? What was his logic? Like,

409
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 1: people know that I'm gonna show up earlier. It logic

410
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:35,840
Speaker 1: by then, and this was understanding everything. Apollo Too album

411
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 1: is just as he's beginning to change his format. But

412
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:43,199
Speaker 1: even in the old days before that, he would come

413
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:45,480
Speaker 1: out earlier and play Oregon with the band for a

414
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Speaker 1: half hour, and that wouldn't ruin the surprise. Really, No,

415
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:54,480
Speaker 1: it was all about building. It was all about building,

416
00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:59,000
Speaker 1: and and his idea was that we're gonna save the

417
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:03,480
Speaker 1: explosions for the end, of course, for the climax. And

418
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:06,560
Speaker 1: he would come out and he would do back to

419
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Speaker 1: Let's stick with the Apollo to seven. He would come out,

420
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 1: Let's see he did. That's life. I want to be

421
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:17,760
Speaker 1: around both of them. He's sitting in a stool and

422
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 1: just playing nightclub crooner, which was new for him. That

423
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:25,400
Speaker 1: was new, He'd never done that before. And he would

424
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:27,679
Speaker 1: do this at the Apolo. Yes, it's on the record.

425
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:30,639
Speaker 1: What was and what was the purpose though for to

426
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 1: do that Frank Sinatra stuff at the Apollo. The purpose

427
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:37,159
Speaker 1: was to show another side of him that he was

428
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:42,159
Speaker 1: expanding beyond just a predictable soul singer with a predictable review.

429
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:45,080
Speaker 1: He was like, I'm an all around entertainer. He was

430
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:48,399
Speaker 1: hoping to get gigs in Vegas and Miami Beach in

431
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 1: the lucrative showrooms and and expand his his horizons and

432
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 1: his audience. All right, so let me pause here. Okay,

433
00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:01,360
Speaker 1: so let's go to the copa more my i Ami. Now,

434
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,720
Speaker 1: if he's at a place that's the opposite of the Apollo,

435
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:14,560
Speaker 1: wouldn't right, So wouldn't the highlight them be the crooning

436
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:16,960
Speaker 1: stuff and then sort of be like this might be

437
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:20,479
Speaker 1: this might be too little rally for them, giving them

438
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:24,359
Speaker 1: a kind Yeah, it's a good point. You kind of

439
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:29,359
Speaker 1: know what you're getting, um and we would they be disappointed?

440
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:32,760
Speaker 1: Is a bathroom time or popcorn? His whole thing was

441
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:36,920
Speaker 1: it's about making a new audience meet him in his world.

442
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:39,240
Speaker 1: It was like, I'm not I'm gonna you know, I'm

443
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 1: gonna make changes and I'm gonna grow. It isn't hard.

444
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:44,640
Speaker 1: It's gonna show a different side to me, but I'm

445
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:46,879
Speaker 1: still gonna be true to who I am. I'm not

446
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:49,919
Speaker 1: gonna do anything that's going to disappoint my die hard fans.

447
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:54,960
Speaker 1: He's like, you know, if I can attract that vagance audience, great,

448
00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:56,879
Speaker 1: but I'm never going to turn my back on the

449
00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:00,480
Speaker 1: hood because that's my base. Okay. So it was like

450
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:05,800
Speaker 1: it was like, you got to come to me on

451
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:08,240
Speaker 1: my terms. This is who I am. And I'm not

452
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:11,280
Speaker 1: going to deny that. So if you don't like hard funk,

453
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 1: then you can leave. But I'm gonna get you because

454
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 1: I'm an entertainer. Even if you don't like my songs

455
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:22,640
Speaker 1: by records, I'm gonna do something that stage that's gonna

456
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:26,440
Speaker 1: make you stop and pay attention. Even in the seventies,

457
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 1: so even by seventy two when he's just like afrowed

458
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:34,280
Speaker 1: out and well he had stopped doing the ballads and

459
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:38,840
Speaker 1: and that stuff like that. Um, And since I'm really

460
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 1: dissecting every now, I wasn't. I wasn't joking about the

461
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:46,200
Speaker 1: food stuff and whatnot. Because the main reason why I

462
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 1: probe and probe and ask you these questions for the

463
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 1: last twenty years i've known you it is simply because

464
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:57,840
Speaker 1: I mean, had I been born thirty forty years earlier,

465
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:00,560
Speaker 1: I would have been the musician on that stage. So

466
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:05,480
Speaker 1: I'm just curious to see, as a working musician, how

467
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 1: are our lives compare like the quest level of the

468
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 1: late sixties. So what I want to know is, Uh,

469
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:15,720
Speaker 1: it's gonna be like a stupid question, but I always

470
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:21,960
Speaker 1: wanted to know, right, Okay, So with with with a

471
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:27,440
Speaker 1: show that high energy I know that bottle water wasn't

472
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 1: quite invented yet in the late sixties early seventies. How

473
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:38,080
Speaker 1: are they replenishing themselves on the state like is there

474
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 1: boy on the side or intermission? Oh so you weren't

475
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:46,720
Speaker 1: allowed to bring a drink on stage or that's not professional.

476
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:50,440
Speaker 1: That's why I asked you. Would he allow that towels

477
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 1: even up for police? Please please with the capes so

478
00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:57,800
Speaker 1: only for him, So the band would have to meet

479
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:00,960
Speaker 1: jehold by the head of towel on the floor next

480
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:04,200
Speaker 1: to the kid. But don't let nobody see it. And

481
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 1: I've never seen in any of the photos. I've never

482
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:12,280
Speaker 1: seen set lists, no tape to the oh, so you

483
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 1: would have to know. But I mean, basically, remember this

484
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:17,880
Speaker 1: is this is a show that was on the road

485
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:21,160
Speaker 1: fifty one week. Saw the worked sometimes four nights a week,

486
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:24,160
Speaker 1: five sometimes six or seven, depending on the venues and

487
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 1: the routing of the They could probably play it in

488
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 1: the sleep exactly exactly, and the show gradually changed. It

489
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 1: didn't change overnight. The set list, Um, I mean, like

490
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:38,000
Speaker 1: I said, the Apollo three and Apollo two for them,

491
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 1: and the set lists were the same for each show

492
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:44,600
Speaker 1: because they were there were segues in different dynamics that

493
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 1: set up each song, and it was carefully structured. I

494
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 1: mean it was you know, there was there was a

495
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:55,120
Speaker 1: method to the madness in terms of the pacing so

496
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 1: that he could catch a breath. Um, you know as

497
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:00,360
Speaker 1: still where the ballots go and so on. Mean it's

498
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:03,760
Speaker 1: it's the chop one on one. Um, so all right,

499
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:07,320
Speaker 1: he's croony, yeah, continue, Okay, So he does that center

500
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:10,400
Speaker 1: fifteen minutes, whatever it takes to do that. The last

501
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:13,200
Speaker 1: song that that said is Kansas City, which is uppeat,

502
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 1: which means that he kicks the stool back, and halfway

503
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 1: through Kansas City he jumps up and starts dancing a

504
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:24,920
Speaker 1: little bit. It's a tease. The band is smoking and

505
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:28,720
Speaker 1: he's giving it a tease of James Brown. That that

506
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:31,480
Speaker 1: James Brown, who slides across the state jump want foot,

507
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:36,160
Speaker 1: just the tease. Then he disappears, and here comes Bobby

508
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:39,800
Speaker 1: Bird to do two or three songs on two or

509
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 1: maybe four songs and the Apollo maybe two. Then here

510
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:49,760
Speaker 1: comes Marvel Whitney. Then here comes James Brown again. No introduction,

511
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:52,760
Speaker 1: lights go dark, he walks on stage, lights come up,

512
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:57,200
Speaker 1: and he sings into Man's World. For fifteen minutes. Okay, right,

513
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:01,800
Speaker 1: there was a really long version that's that's on the

514
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:05,480
Speaker 1: Apollo To album. It's longer on the Deluxey d and

515
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:08,320
Speaker 1: it was on the album for out of us reasons, um.

516
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:12,080
Speaker 1: And that's another show stopper because it was a huge

517
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 1: hit and it's a very dynamic, and he incorporates a

518
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:19,240
Speaker 1: medley of some of his older tunes within it, Bewildered,

519
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,240
Speaker 1: Lost Someone, some of that stuff to satisfy his older fans,

520
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:27,560
Speaker 1: and then he goes off stage again. Then either there's

521
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:30,120
Speaker 1: a comic. Clay Tyson was our own house comic who

522
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 1: traveled as part of the show, and he'd come out

523
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:34,400
Speaker 1: and do ten minutes of old jokes and then would

524
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 1: be an intermission, questions pause. I forgot that there's the

525
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:41,560
Speaker 1: JB Dancers who come out and do five minutes of

526
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:46,239
Speaker 1: dancing while the band plays Caravan or something. So when

527
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:49,640
Speaker 1: that stuff is playing, so when I'm listening to the

528
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 1: stuff on YouTube, they're dancing the JB Dancers are playing

529
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 1: or dance into those instrumentals. No, No, they get a

530
00:32:57,600 --> 00:32:59,840
Speaker 1: feature in the first part of the show before and

531
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:03,400
Speaker 1: mission where they're introduced as the JB Dancers and their

532
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:07,600
Speaker 1: downstage center and they do a routine too. Oh they

533
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:12,400
Speaker 1: use different itsr metals. On the sixty seven Apollo it

534
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:16,600
Speaker 1: was caravan Um. Later on in the sixties it was

535
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:19,200
Speaker 1: the Massa Killers grazing in the grass and it just

536
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:23,960
Speaker 1: picked an instrumental and work out that that's there in

537
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:27,560
Speaker 1: the spotlight. So there's always been a Vegas element to issue.

538
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 1: But but you know what it when you say Vegas,

539
00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:38,560
Speaker 1: it wasn't cheesy, right, I mean sometimes maybe it was,

540
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:40,520
Speaker 1: but but let me put it this way. If it

541
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:44,040
Speaker 1: was cheesy, it was black cheesy, okay, But was it

542
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 1: cheesy to you watching it in sight? No? The girls

543
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:53,200
Speaker 1: were hot, ask Okay, So right now I'm at my

544
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:58,160
Speaker 1: board phase, like I go through three. They weren't out

545
00:33:58,200 --> 00:33:59,960
Speaker 1: there long enough for you to get put so bored.

546
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:02,200
Speaker 1: Well no, no, no, I'm just saying that when I

547
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 1: when I go through my board phase, then this is

548
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:11,799
Speaker 1: when I start embracing uh nineties James Brown, like I'll

549
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:18,080
Speaker 1: look at can't get any harder for sake. No, no, no,

550
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 1: I'm just saying that out Like last week I watched

551
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:30,239
Speaker 1: uh his would Stop three performance, which was exactly I

552
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:33,440
Speaker 1: don't know when when the rumors of the when the

553
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:37,279
Speaker 1: when the was James Brown murdered rumors started seeping out.

554
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:40,279
Speaker 1: Then I just, I don't know, I felt the need

555
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:43,600
Speaker 1: to just look at the last ten years of his

556
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:46,839
Speaker 1: life to see what his show would become of, which

557
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:50,839
Speaker 1: he never straight away from the formula. Like in my mind,

558
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:55,320
Speaker 1: I never thought that there were dancing girls and this

559
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:59,239
Speaker 1: cover song and that sort of thing, because on the

560
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:02,400
Speaker 1: live album, you're just getting the James Brown show as

561
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 1: you know it. And then once I discovered the tapes,

562
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:07,560
Speaker 1: then I realized, like, oh, there are dancing girls and

563
00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:10,399
Speaker 1: there are that sort of thing. Well that That's why

564
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:13,840
Speaker 1: I was so happy with the expanded to c D

565
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:17,200
Speaker 1: version of Apollo too, because we were able to take

566
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:21,279
Speaker 1: the tapes from the two and a half shows and

567
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:24,799
Speaker 1: to the best of our ability, recreate what the show

568
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:28,240
Speaker 1: really flowed like. Because the album the original album, because

569
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:30,720
Speaker 1: of the length of songs, they weren't able to sequence

570
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:34,680
Speaker 1: it with any logic really, and the whole mission with

571
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:37,840
Speaker 1: the c D was, let's create the show with the

572
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:41,480
Speaker 1: flow and then you know, the ebbs and the peaks

573
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:45,320
Speaker 1: was actually was. I was really appreciative that the Frankie

574
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:48,160
Speaker 1: Crocker intros were included in that too, So yeah, yeah,

575
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:53,520
Speaker 1: d O J. Yeah, Um, can I see that? Letting

576
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:55,799
Speaker 1: Crocker or O J or a person of the day

577
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:58,320
Speaker 1: introduced the show was sort of like a greasy palm.

578
00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:02,520
Speaker 1: Let me well, they Frankie and Audio J. And it

579
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:06,239
Speaker 1: was also Rocky g who was the program director in

580
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 1: the mid in late sixties. Um, they would sponsor shows

581
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:13,800
Speaker 1: at the Apollo, not just James's where they weren't really

582
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:16,840
Speaker 1: promoting the shows because it was in house the Apollo,

583
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:20,000
Speaker 1: but the Apollo would spiff them to put their names

584
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:23,080
Speaker 1: on there, so it would be Frankie Crocker, Video J

585
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:26,279
Speaker 1: Present James Brown and and that's something the Apollo had

586
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:31,520
Speaker 1: been doing for years and years. Wait slight slight jump

587
00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:39,080
Speaker 1: into the future because I always wanted to know fast

588
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 1: forward on your own leads remote control. Okay, so at

589
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:54,479
Speaker 1: the that you were uh tour managing. Uh. Crocker also

590
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:59,640
Speaker 1: introduces Vanity six. What was the lot? Like? Whose idea

591
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:02,480
Speaker 1: was that? Was it just hey, if you want me to?

592
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:06,719
Speaker 1: Was that you? Or was that I wasn't at the

593
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:10,399
Speaker 1: New York show? Was that I came in right after that? Oh?

594
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:13,040
Speaker 1: So I can't but but I'll tell you what I

595
00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:17,520
Speaker 1: do remember. I remember before I went to work for Prince,

596
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 1: when Vanity six record came out and Nasty Girls took off.

597
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:25,879
Speaker 1: I happened to be home in Brooklyn at the time

598
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:29,400
Speaker 1: with what was What was it? Then? Kiss? What's? The

599
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:34,040
Speaker 1: station was w L. Frankie was less at the time,

600
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:39,600
Speaker 1: and um, they did a promo studio visit with Frankie

601
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:43,880
Speaker 1: did I happen to hear? And U just happened to

602
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:47,440
Speaker 1: have the radio and the part in Brooklyn, And because

603
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:51,280
Speaker 1: I was a fan and Prince and Nasty Girls paid attention,

604
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:55,800
Speaker 1: and um, they seemed to bond. I mean, it was

605
00:37:55,880 --> 00:38:02,040
Speaker 1: a really playful interview that was memorable, exactly exactly exactly

606
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:04,680
Speaker 1: all the remembers they kept saying every time, I mean

607
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:09,239
Speaker 1: he'd asked them a question, Um, Susan and and V

608
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:12,640
Speaker 1: would go like Frankie, Frankie Panky, Frankie pranky, and and

609
00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 1: it just stuck with me. It was like, okay, okay,

610
00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:18,880
Speaker 1: I want to meet them, you know, and with no

611
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:22,880
Speaker 1: idea that I would you be connected them forever. But

612
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:27,040
Speaker 1: you know, look, everybody knew Frankie had juice. I mean,

613
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:30,640
Speaker 1: he was in New York radio and um, you'd be

614
00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:32,480
Speaker 1: crazy to come to town and not let him get

615
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:35,000
Speaker 1: on stage and say hello if he wanted to. Just

616
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:39,200
Speaker 1: as good to you as it is for you. You

617
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 1: get so much with the Frankie crocod touch, after all,

618
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:45,839
Speaker 1: how can you lose with the stuff I use? Turn

619
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:48,759
Speaker 1: up the lightinghole, MITSI. Frankie says, it's just got to

620
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:52,640
Speaker 1: be all right. Closer than white song, right, is closer

621
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:55,800
Speaker 1: than coals on eyes, closer than a collas on a dog,

622
00:38:56,600 --> 00:39:02,600
Speaker 1: closer than a hay Amazon, our country home, really young,

623
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:07,080
Speaker 1: and do ain't never had enough of nothing? Definitely ready

624
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 1: if you need it, be steady. Everything's gonna be everything.

625
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:15,360
Speaker 1: But remember if you can't stand it, please don't demand it.

626
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:20,000
Speaker 1: I don't let your eyes get your mind messed up

627
00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:22,560
Speaker 1: with your heart and soul desires something you know you

628
00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:27,239
Speaker 1: just can't stand. Really, all I have to do is

629
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:30,040
Speaker 1: set the needle to the tracks, separate the soul from

630
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:33,000
Speaker 1: the wax lay and the groove, and hope to make

631
00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:48,520
Speaker 1: you move. Okay, So he comes out and does the

632
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 1: this gargantea in It's a Man's World. This whole episode

633
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:57,960
Speaker 1: is going to be about. And then you said that, Uh,

634
00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:02,160
Speaker 1: Comedians So does this formula I assume that we're going

635
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:04,759
Speaker 1: to get the star time after intermission? Right, of course,

636
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:09,960
Speaker 1: does this formula work all over the United States? It's

637
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:14,920
Speaker 1: full proof, not one person trying to boo klay Tyson

638
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:18,799
Speaker 1: or Oh, they were people who didn't want to hear him. Sure,

639
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:20,640
Speaker 1: they were kids who didn't want to hear him, and

640
00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:24,000
Speaker 1: that there were people who did. Because let's let's have

641
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:28,280
Speaker 1: to And this is really difficult to explain to anyone

642
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:34,480
Speaker 1: under the age of fifty. I suppose, um, this all

643
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:39,239
Speaker 1: came out of vaudeville, right, and that was that was

644
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:45,839
Speaker 1: Brown's template for creating a review of self contained show.

645
00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:51,480
Speaker 1: Remember that most solo artists traveled solo or with their

646
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:54,600
Speaker 1: own accompaniment and so on, but they didn't have reviews

647
00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:59,600
Speaker 1: because they either couldn't afford them or just weren't interested. Um,

648
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:02,880
Speaker 1: James Brown's idea was like, let's do all this in

649
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:05,359
Speaker 1: the house. I'm tired, you know when he was when

650
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:08,279
Speaker 1: he was younger, before he was had to influence in

651
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:12,839
Speaker 1: the success to to take over things. Um, he would

652
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:15,479
Speaker 1: be like everybody else and they'd be on shows where

653
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:19,160
Speaker 1: they'd be different acts every night, depend on you know,

654
00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:22,440
Speaker 1: if you were in Chicago, you might have Martha Van

655
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:26,160
Speaker 1: Della's or Gene Channel or the Impressions or the Drifters

656
00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:27,800
Speaker 1: on the show with you. And then you go to

657
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:30,480
Speaker 1: Cincinnati the next day in and so this writing and

658
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:35,560
Speaker 1: Carla Thomas, and you never know because the promoters would.

659
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:39,600
Speaker 1: First of all, they never felt that there was one

660
00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:43,480
Speaker 1: entertainer who could sell out the theater or an arena

661
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:47,759
Speaker 1: on their own, so they felt obligated to take two

662
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:50,720
Speaker 1: or three semi stars and a bunch of one record

663
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:53,040
Speaker 1: acts and put a package together. And the idea was

664
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:56,120
Speaker 1: to have nine or ten acts, most of whom just

665
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:59,000
Speaker 1: did two or three songs. The star would do half

666
00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:02,520
Speaker 1: an hour, and you had those tours and you've probably

667
00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:05,399
Speaker 1: seen the vintage posters of that stuff, and they would

668
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:07,640
Speaker 1: go all over the country. So that's what people were

669
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:11,360
Speaker 1: used to. James Brown said, why do I have to

670
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:15,759
Speaker 1: share the revenue with all these other acts? Let me

671
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:19,880
Speaker 1: get my own acts. Let's stop Bobby Bird do three songs,

672
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:22,120
Speaker 1: so let's let Baby Lloyd, one of the other Flames,

673
00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:24,760
Speaker 1: do a couple of songs. Let's get a girl singer

674
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:28,000
Speaker 1: who's cute and can hold a note, and let's she

675
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:31,960
Speaker 1: do three songs, and they were on salary, so I'm

676
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:35,520
Speaker 1: not paying uh, the promoters and paying Eddie James or

677
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:37,920
Speaker 1: the drifters and so on. I got my own review.

678
00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:43,239
Speaker 1: And the template, of course was vaudeville, because that's where

679
00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:46,520
Speaker 1: theater shows came from. And and if you go back

680
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:50,600
Speaker 1: and look at the bills, the weekly bills of the

681
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:54,080
Speaker 1: Apollo Theater throughout the sixties and going all the way

682
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:56,960
Speaker 1: back to the thirties, but even in the sixties, at

683
00:42:57,000 --> 00:42:59,680
Speaker 1: the height of the soul music area, there would always

684
00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:02,520
Speaker 1: be a median, there would always be a vocal group,

685
00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:05,200
Speaker 1: there would always be a male singer, it would always

686
00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:07,239
Speaker 1: be a female singer, and then god knows what else

687
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:10,400
Speaker 1: they needed to fill up the show. It was always

688
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:15,759
Speaker 1: a package unless you were Duke Kellington, you know, who

689
00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:18,680
Speaker 1: would also play the Apollo. But even he would have

690
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:22,360
Speaker 1: his own, his own singers that would get a you know,

691
00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:25,080
Speaker 1: promp Basi had Joe Williams for years and years, and

692
00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:32,000
Speaker 1: and Ellington had singers. So people expected variety, a variety show,

693
00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:35,680
Speaker 1: and the idea was that you have sex, yeah, something

694
00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:38,880
Speaker 1: for the guys, something for the girls, and you have

695
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:41,960
Speaker 1: some laughs and you have some good instrumental music, and

696
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:43,840
Speaker 1: you had to have all those things to be a

697
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:48,840
Speaker 1: complete show, and that's what audiences expected. The Roots have failed.

698
00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:02,279
Speaker 1: A question back to the Roots comedy because first, since

699
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:05,040
Speaker 1: since we're at the intermission of the show, UM, so

700
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:08,239
Speaker 1: far besides the comedy, it sounds like the band is

701
00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:11,800
Speaker 1: out there the entire time, the same band. All. I

702
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:15,400
Speaker 1: just want to make that, make that clear to the listeners. Absolutely,

703
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:17,799
Speaker 1: but it should be noted that James Brown often at

704
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:22,839
Speaker 1: two or three drummers. Yeah, yes, in the basis they

705
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:25,279
Speaker 1: all went to the to the same gigs. But I

706
00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:27,279
Speaker 1: mean so they would switch out. No, no, no, there

707
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:29,680
Speaker 1: was one band that traveled on the same bus and

708
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:32,600
Speaker 1: went to the same gigs. Absolutely, but different drummers would

709
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:35,720
Speaker 1: switch out for different acts, for different songs, different songs.

710
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:38,840
Speaker 1: I mean they were listen when he recorded. Um. I

711
00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:41,640
Speaker 1: mean that's a whole lot of tangent. For a second, um,

712
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:44,040
Speaker 1: I want to get back to the Roots comedy just

713
00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:47,520
Speaker 1: for a split because I had an inspiration. I had

714
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:50,400
Speaker 1: an idea that it's it's it's so obvious. You probably

715
00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:53,200
Speaker 1: don't want to do it because it's too it's too obvious,

716
00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:59,000
Speaker 1: but you can do Thank you. Notes translate that something

717
00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:01,440
Speaker 1: to the stage. You know what, because either you or

718
00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:03,839
Speaker 1: Arka somebody has to do is do they. I hate

719
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:08,280
Speaker 1: to say this, but when James is on these shows

720
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:12,239
Speaker 1: with us, it's like they get mad if it does

721
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:15,799
Speaker 1: not do thank you notes. They yell thank you notes now.

722
00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:28,080
Speaker 1: And it's not just one more note. That's good, Okay,

723
00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:32,640
Speaker 1: my other question, sorry, and we'll talk this. The show

724
00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:36,480
Speaker 1: also sounds like it's, like you said, it's supposed to build,

725
00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:40,200
Speaker 1: but it also sounds somewhat chronological. Is that is that

726
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:43,600
Speaker 1: correct as far as like his earliest and then his

727
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:46,800
Speaker 1: and then leading me into the big single or my latest.

728
00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:52,920
Speaker 1: Not necessarily, but but you save the hits for the

729
00:45:53,080 --> 00:45:59,160
Speaker 1: start time segment. Obviously, even his oldest hits Yeah Try

730
00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:01,600
Speaker 1: Me and Police Please Please were the oldest songs that

731
00:46:01,719 --> 00:46:05,600
Speaker 1: he would continue to do until he stopped working. Um,

732
00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:11,560
Speaker 1: we're always in the startime set, so after intermission in startime, Yeah,

733
00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:15,280
Speaker 1: ladies and gentlemen, it's start time at the Apollo Theater.

734
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:22,520
Speaker 1: Million dollars seller, chry Me Please Please Please. Papa's got

735
00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:25,640
Speaker 1: a brand new bag. This is a man's World. Puss

736
00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:28,880
Speaker 1: constructive tune of nineteen sixty six don't be a dropout

737
00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:39,359
Speaker 1: recently recall it. Let yourself go, baby, don't you week?

738
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:42,320
Speaker 1: Let's pick him on right now, everybody, the heartest working

739
00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:44,960
Speaker 1: man in show business. I'm gonna let you say his name,

740
00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:55,680
Speaker 1: James Brown, Lady and gentleman. And that's a half hour,

741
00:46:55,880 --> 00:47:01,439
Speaker 1: thirty five minutes start. It's usually ran about an hour.

742
00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:04,000
Speaker 1: I mean in the old days. In the old days,

743
00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:06,440
Speaker 1: in the Apollo when they still had more support acts.

744
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:11,040
Speaker 1: For example, Apollo one was recorded in nineteen sixty two

745
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:14,880
Speaker 1: and on the show was Bobby Womack and the Valentineo

746
00:47:15,160 --> 00:47:20,240
Speaker 1: Solomon Burke. There were other real recording artists on record,

747
00:47:21,560 --> 00:47:27,080
Speaker 1: not exactly like Pigmy Markham. What was on the show? Um?

748
00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:30,360
Speaker 1: You know, so Brown would do? I mean the Apollo

749
00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:33,719
Speaker 1: one album is about thirty five minutes and there's only

750
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:36,280
Speaker 1: one song cut out, so so he was doing forty minutes.

751
00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:40,239
Speaker 1: But by sixty seven Star time, I mean, he had

752
00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:42,920
Speaker 1: so many hits it pretty much was an hour and

753
00:47:43,080 --> 00:47:46,719
Speaker 1: that that pretty much stayed that way until he changed

754
00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:52,880
Speaker 1: the format late seventies. So you're saying from the instrumentals

755
00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:58,400
Speaker 1: all the way to Clay Tyson, it's man's world before intermission.

756
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:02,680
Speaker 1: That's kind of like forty five minutes. I mean the

757
00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:06,840
Speaker 1: bathroom breaks ten minutes obviously, and then he does fifty

758
00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:09,560
Speaker 1: minutes to an hour and into the show. Okay, and

759
00:48:09,640 --> 00:48:15,319
Speaker 1: your observation. They're doing this four to five times a day.

760
00:48:16,239 --> 00:48:21,040
Speaker 1: They were up until sixty nine not kissed this when

761
00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:27,080
Speaker 1: he started. Where do you feel the best show normally?

762
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:31,480
Speaker 1: Is like? Or was there? No? There is no Ah,

763
00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:34,239
Speaker 1: he didn't do that much energy tonight as opposed to

764
00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:40,120
Speaker 1: like can he keep it up all five shows? No?

765
00:48:41,960 --> 00:48:46,680
Speaker 1: So for you. But but what James Brown, the difference,

766
00:48:48,680 --> 00:48:53,480
Speaker 1: the difference between the slow show and the hot show,

767
00:48:55,440 --> 00:48:59,000
Speaker 1: it's not that vast. So who's in the audience that

768
00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:02,880
Speaker 1: the one one clock on a weekday? Some old ladies,

769
00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:09,040
Speaker 1: some drunks. School really so it's a weekday one pm.

770
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:12,280
Speaker 1: Police aren't in the audience, like shouldn't you be in school?

771
00:49:13,080 --> 00:49:15,799
Speaker 1: They may have occasionally, I don't know. These says were

772
00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:20,040
Speaker 1: sold out, No, they weren't sold out. Was he disappointed?

773
00:49:20,480 --> 00:49:24,840
Speaker 1: Were like the late sixties? They were? But but it

774
00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:27,840
Speaker 1: wasn't typical to sell out every show. You couldn't do

775
00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:33,399
Speaker 1: me m hmm. Okay, I mean there were times where

776
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:35,680
Speaker 1: you would played a half a house at one o'clock

777
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:40,120
Speaker 1: in the afternoon, and that was not deflating to his

778
00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:42,359
Speaker 1: ego or nothing. He was understanding that, oh it's one

779
00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:45,960
Speaker 1: o'clock in the why would that? I mean, you got

780
00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:49,040
Speaker 1: to see, this tradition goes back to the nineteen thirties,

781
00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:52,320
Speaker 1: and I mean, I guess we've surmised that people in

782
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:54,239
Speaker 1: the nineteen thirties didn't have that much to do, and

783
00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:58,120
Speaker 1: I don't know why, but but it's it's always been that.

784
00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:03,160
Speaker 1: I mean it it's you know, the white vaudeville theaters

785
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:07,520
Speaker 1: in mid Tawm, Manhattan. We're doing the same thing, but

786
00:50:07,719 --> 00:50:10,719
Speaker 1: they were doing it with Sinatra Woody Herman instead of

787
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:14,879
Speaker 1: James Brown, Duke Ellington. Um, it was just the world

788
00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:18,800
Speaker 1: we lived in, and people would go to, you know,

789
00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:21,080
Speaker 1: people who didn't want to fight the crowds at night

790
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:23,960
Speaker 1: because obviously the seven and ten o'clock shows were the

791
00:50:24,239 --> 00:50:30,800
Speaker 1: busiest shows. And so depending on the demographic that in

792
00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:36,040
Speaker 1: artists appealed to, Um, you know, it might be kids,

793
00:50:36,080 --> 00:50:39,480
Speaker 1: it might be older people, it might be people who

794
00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:43,040
Speaker 1: were bored and have nothing to do. I'd like to

795
00:50:43,160 --> 00:50:45,719
Speaker 1: think that maybe the seven o'clock was the better show

796
00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:57,080
Speaker 1: because that's where, yeah, you're off work and it's date

797
00:50:57,200 --> 00:50:59,920
Speaker 1: night or something like that. Yeah, I mean, I'm just

798
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:04,480
Speaker 1: sleep weekends. But to answer your question directly, the hottest

799
00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:08,319
Speaker 1: show was the midnight show on Saturday. See, I figure

800
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:10,360
Speaker 1: he'd be worn out by then. He might be, but

801
00:51:10,640 --> 00:51:17,600
Speaker 1: but all the players is there. The audience is hot. Okay,

802
00:51:18,239 --> 00:51:23,520
Speaker 1: you could you couldn't. You couldn't. You couldn't skate okay.

803
00:51:23,719 --> 00:51:26,719
Speaker 1: And the other one was the Wednesday night Late Show

804
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:29,960
Speaker 1: because that's the amateur night that brought out the serious

805
00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:33,880
Speaker 1: audience that was dedicated to amateur night. So we're amateur

806
00:51:33,960 --> 00:51:38,040
Speaker 1: night fitting late on a Wednesday show on the Late Show?

807
00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:42,960
Speaker 1: What time like after James is over? You know, I

808
00:51:43,120 --> 00:51:45,680
Speaker 1: can't honestly tell you. And it was a separate audience,

809
00:51:45,719 --> 00:51:47,759
Speaker 1: separate letout let it no, no, no, no no. It

810
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:49,600
Speaker 1: was like a movie theater. If you bought a ticket

811
00:51:49,680 --> 00:51:51,239
Speaker 1: at one o'clock, you could stay there all day and

812
00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:54,360
Speaker 1: all night. You could watch kids could come in on

813
00:51:54,520 --> 00:51:58,160
Speaker 1: Saturday morning and watched four shows. Oh they didn't clear

814
00:51:58,239 --> 00:52:03,160
Speaker 1: the no theater. Is it standing room or seats? There were?

815
00:52:03,400 --> 00:52:05,520
Speaker 1: I mean, there's there's a little stupid in the Apology,

816
00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:08,040
Speaker 1: they're standing room in the back, but it's of course

817
00:52:08,080 --> 00:52:11,680
Speaker 1: it's seats. So but the people where they're pre brought

818
00:52:11,719 --> 00:52:14,879
Speaker 1: tickets back in the day, like James Brown is coming

819
00:52:15,640 --> 00:52:18,080
Speaker 1: May nineteen. No let me go and get tickets. You

820
00:52:18,239 --> 00:52:22,200
Speaker 1: just lined up outside and as people left, they let

821
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:26,720
Speaker 1: people in. So it's like a nightclub in the theater exactly,

822
00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:30,160
Speaker 1: you know, if if if, I mean there were times

823
00:52:30,239 --> 00:52:32,759
Speaker 1: where they'd be lined up and actually be standing in

824
00:52:32,920 --> 00:52:37,000
Speaker 1: line through a whole show that's going on inside because

825
00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:38,919
Speaker 1: they're hoping they can get in for the next show.

826
00:52:39,560 --> 00:52:42,160
Speaker 1: Now that's if you're hot. I mean, it wasn't typical

827
00:52:42,239 --> 00:52:45,600
Speaker 1: of every week in every show, but by the time

828
00:52:45,719 --> 00:52:49,480
Speaker 1: Brown really really got hot in the mid sixties, it

829
00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:52,200
Speaker 1: was frequently like that, and there'd be a line around

830
00:52:52,239 --> 00:52:55,319
Speaker 1: the block all the way up. But I would think

831
00:52:55,520 --> 00:52:59,520
Speaker 1: that they would do a show, clear the place and

832
00:52:59,640 --> 00:53:03,000
Speaker 1: let people buy tickets, like he could make more money,

833
00:53:03,239 --> 00:53:05,920
Speaker 1: of course, and that's where he never once started that.

834
00:53:06,280 --> 00:53:08,600
Speaker 1: Of course they did, and he insisted they do that

835
00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:11,880
Speaker 1: at a certain point, and I want to say that

836
00:53:12,040 --> 00:53:15,839
Speaker 1: point was either in or early sixty nine is when

837
00:53:15,880 --> 00:53:17,920
Speaker 1: he went to the Apollo and said, look, what I'm

838
00:53:17,960 --> 00:53:21,160
Speaker 1: doing this is do two shows. I'll do three on Saturday,

839
00:53:21,640 --> 00:53:24,400
Speaker 1: and you got to clear the house. And was that

840
00:53:24,520 --> 00:53:29,000
Speaker 1: foreign to them back in the day, Yes, absolutely, because

841
00:53:29,040 --> 00:53:31,360
Speaker 1: it was the same. It was that's just how the

842
00:53:31,480 --> 00:53:34,279
Speaker 1: theater was running. And it was typical of all these

843
00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:37,640
Speaker 1: vaudeville theaters. So I could have bought a James Brown

844
00:53:37,680 --> 00:53:39,880
Speaker 1: ticket for five dollars, walked and walked to the apollog

845
00:53:42,200 --> 00:53:52,520
Speaker 1: two bucks three and seemed like calendar in sixties, one

846
00:53:52,600 --> 00:53:57,960
Speaker 1: for me, one for you moms, two dollars in the

847
00:53:58,040 --> 00:54:02,040
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty seven, that's me spending two bucks today. Maybe

848
00:54:02,200 --> 00:54:07,239
Speaker 1: I don't know, but I mean I bet the earliest

849
00:54:07,320 --> 00:54:09,360
Speaker 1: show and we were saying one o'clock, but maybe he

850
00:54:09,600 --> 00:54:12,000
Speaker 1: was two o'clock, three o'clock, but I don't know. But

851
00:54:12,400 --> 00:54:17,160
Speaker 1: never any later than that, and the first show was

852
00:54:17,200 --> 00:54:21,800
Speaker 1: probably for a buck except on weekends. I mean envisioned

853
00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:24,719
Speaker 1: an old movie theater. What a time to be alive. Yeah,

854
00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:29,560
Speaker 1: I mean it was crazy. Now, obviously shows had to

855
00:54:29,600 --> 00:54:32,640
Speaker 1: be an automatic pilot at some point, because it's it's

856
00:54:32,719 --> 00:54:36,239
Speaker 1: just how can even if you're not physically tired, how

857
00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:41,880
Speaker 1: do you get mentally amped? Particularly somebody like Brown or

858
00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:45,879
Speaker 1: his band who worked so hard and then you come

859
00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:51,520
Speaker 1: off stage and they basically show a film. Yeah, but

860
00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:58,000
Speaker 1: but like yeah, short in the joke all was was

861
00:54:58,120 --> 00:55:00,040
Speaker 1: they'd find the worst movies because they were trying and

862
00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:07,640
Speaker 1: encourage people to get up and leave. Really yeah, okay, um,

863
00:55:09,080 --> 00:55:12,080
Speaker 1: I'm cheating right now on my calculator. By the way,

864
00:55:12,200 --> 00:55:15,080
Speaker 1: So if I were to play two dollars to see

865
00:55:15,160 --> 00:55:22,400
Speaker 1: James Brown in, yes, fifteen bucks and okay, so that's

866
00:55:22,440 --> 00:55:25,480
Speaker 1: still cheap. Yeah, and you could have seen like four

867
00:55:25,520 --> 00:55:34,080
Speaker 1: shows that day for absolutely and so the standards of

868
00:55:34,200 --> 00:55:37,520
Speaker 1: the day and back then, because then I would think, Wow,

869
00:55:37,640 --> 00:55:40,920
Speaker 1: you see this joke before or you've seen this song before,

870
00:55:41,880 --> 00:55:46,480
Speaker 1: like the same people. But no, I mean obviously everybody

871
00:55:46,560 --> 00:55:49,399
Speaker 1: didn't do that, right, There's there's a handful of nuts

872
00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:52,600
Speaker 1: who just either really love the artist. I'm raising my hands.

873
00:55:54,080 --> 00:55:58,320
Speaker 1: They got they got absolutely nothing else to do, you know,

874
00:55:58,880 --> 00:56:00,680
Speaker 1: they found some good weed. They don't want to build

875
00:56:00,719 --> 00:56:05,680
Speaker 1: their group, so they just okay, um, wow, for two bucks,

876
00:56:05,719 --> 00:56:08,239
Speaker 1: you could just have the best entertainment of your life

877
00:56:08,480 --> 00:56:11,799
Speaker 1: right all day? What's this? What's this merch teme? Look

878
00:56:11,880 --> 00:56:14,800
Speaker 1: like we're there t shirts back then or like programs

879
00:56:14,920 --> 00:56:19,279
Speaker 1: program There were programming books starting in I guess the

880
00:56:19,360 --> 00:56:21,879
Speaker 1: earliest when I was, but that was from a tour.

881
00:56:22,160 --> 00:56:25,120
Speaker 1: Wasn't in the theater. But they saw programmed books. And

882
00:56:25,239 --> 00:56:28,239
Speaker 1: they used to have hats that would have a little

883
00:56:28,280 --> 00:56:31,680
Speaker 1: picture of him in the band and um, you know,

884
00:56:31,800 --> 00:56:34,200
Speaker 1: different jokes. But they never had T shirts. T shirts

885
00:56:34,239 --> 00:56:38,040
Speaker 1: were the thing then. It wasn't some programmed books and photos.

886
00:56:38,920 --> 00:56:43,040
Speaker 1: You get a glossy or button. You know, they had

887
00:56:43,040 --> 00:57:05,600
Speaker 1: saying loud buttons they sold. Well, okay, okay, So the

888
00:57:05,680 --> 00:57:09,640
Speaker 1: show is over, and how long does it break? Before

889
00:57:10,480 --> 00:57:13,960
Speaker 1: forty five minutes? Maybe an hour? I mean I have

890
00:57:14,040 --> 00:57:15,800
Speaker 1: to sit and do the math. I can't, you know,

891
00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:17,960
Speaker 1: it's been a long time. But all right, so let's

892
00:57:17,960 --> 00:57:22,439
Speaker 1: say forty five minutes. I'm his drummer. What am I doing?

893
00:57:24,120 --> 00:57:26,920
Speaker 1: All right? There's there's in all these theaters. And this

894
00:57:27,080 --> 00:57:32,080
Speaker 1: goes for the Howard Washington uptown in Philly, in regally

895
00:57:33,120 --> 00:57:37,240
Speaker 1: exactly from that circuit again old Vaudeville thing. There's a

896
00:57:37,920 --> 00:57:43,360
Speaker 1: chalkboard backstage mhmm, and the stage manager of the theater

897
00:57:43,560 --> 00:57:50,880
Speaker 1: puts up what's called the half hour, and in Vaudeville parlance,

898
00:57:51,000 --> 00:57:54,200
Speaker 1: what that means is this is a half hour before

899
00:57:54,240 --> 00:57:56,120
Speaker 1: the next show starts. If the next show is going

900
00:57:56,200 --> 00:57:59,479
Speaker 1: to start at eight o'clock, then the half hour seven

901
00:57:59,600 --> 00:58:02,760
Speaker 1: thirty post that in advance to let everybody in the

902
00:58:02,880 --> 00:58:06,040
Speaker 1: cast know, you gotta be back here at That was

903
00:58:06,080 --> 00:58:07,560
Speaker 1: the rule. You gotta be back in the house a

904
00:58:07,600 --> 00:58:11,760
Speaker 1: half hour before the show starts. Okay, Now what you

905
00:58:11,880 --> 00:58:16,440
Speaker 1: do up until that time is your business. So you

906
00:58:16,480 --> 00:58:19,320
Speaker 1: can go up to the dressing room and go to sleep.

907
00:58:19,760 --> 00:58:21,720
Speaker 1: You can go down in the basement and shoot craps,

908
00:58:22,320 --> 00:58:25,200
Speaker 1: you can go down the street. Those dressing rooms are

909
00:58:25,240 --> 00:58:28,240
Speaker 1: small as hell though, and I'm certain that James and

910
00:58:28,280 --> 00:58:31,560
Speaker 1: his enter I Stuart taking up most rooms. So where

911
00:58:31,840 --> 00:58:34,960
Speaker 1: does the band go in the basement? Don't now the

912
00:58:35,000 --> 00:58:41,520
Speaker 1: Apollo is nice now, ye, No, the basement looked like rats. Yeah,

913
00:58:41,640 --> 00:58:44,440
Speaker 1: it was rough. I mean, it wasn't anything like it

914
00:58:44,480 --> 00:58:47,920
Speaker 1: it's now. It wasn't. It wasn't puddles of water in

915
00:58:48,000 --> 00:58:50,360
Speaker 1: the corner. It was like the basement of some factory

916
00:58:50,440 --> 00:58:54,360
Speaker 1: or something. That's so weird because in the basement I

917
00:58:54,440 --> 00:58:57,920
Speaker 1: think would hurts there. Actually, the shows would open Friday.

918
00:58:57,960 --> 00:59:01,960
Speaker 1: They would play Friday through Thursday, and on Thursdays. The

919
00:59:02,080 --> 00:59:05,360
Speaker 1: next days the new show would rehearse in the basement.

920
00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:09,520
Speaker 1: So when you're upstairs the James Brownson was playing up there,

921
00:59:09,600 --> 00:59:11,880
Speaker 1: then there might be Sam and Dave in the basement

922
00:59:12,080 --> 00:59:14,680
Speaker 1: working with the house band to get ready for tomorrow's opening.

923
00:59:15,960 --> 00:59:20,880
Speaker 1: While that shows the that's crazy. So wait a minute, um,

924
00:59:21,200 --> 00:59:23,880
Speaker 1: So in the laundry room in the basement of the Apollo,

925
00:59:24,480 --> 00:59:27,200
Speaker 1: there's now a sign that hangs. It says like this

926
00:59:27,360 --> 00:59:29,919
Speaker 1: is now the Flip Wilson room, because Flip Wilson would

927
00:59:29,960 --> 00:59:32,960
Speaker 1: play here five nights a week and he would just

928
00:59:33,080 --> 00:59:35,880
Speaker 1: set up Uh. He would put a couch in the

929
00:59:36,000 --> 00:59:41,160
Speaker 1: laundry room and sometimes sleep here overnight. I would assume

930
00:59:41,200 --> 00:59:44,560
Speaker 1: the saved cash whatever. But you're saying that the basement

931
00:59:44,760 --> 00:59:48,640
Speaker 1: was less than desirable. It's not want to spend the night,

932
00:59:49,040 --> 00:59:55,720
Speaker 1: but do what you gotta do. Wow, okay, okay. Food wise,

933
00:59:56,040 --> 00:59:59,400
Speaker 1: is there catering back then or do you you just

934
01:00:00,440 --> 01:00:03,480
Speaker 1: if if you could afford it, you sent some gophers

935
01:00:03,560 --> 01:00:08,800
Speaker 1: out to go down the street with James was like,

936
01:00:09,760 --> 01:00:14,800
Speaker 1: are you kidding? Really, dude, we would get on his

937
01:00:15,000 --> 01:00:19,000
Speaker 1: lerid jet. Now I'm fast forwarding to like seventies seventy one,

938
01:00:19,440 --> 01:00:23,560
Speaker 1: we get on the ridge. He got it in sixty six.

939
01:00:23,640 --> 01:00:26,320
Speaker 1: You're right, Um, but I'm talking about when I was there,

940
01:00:26,360 --> 01:00:28,880
Speaker 1: and I don't speak when I was there and Danny

941
01:00:29,000 --> 01:00:31,440
Speaker 1: raised one of his many gigs was to make sure

942
01:00:31,480 --> 01:00:33,360
Speaker 1: there was food for Brown after the show went and

943
01:00:33,480 --> 01:00:36,320
Speaker 1: there it because frequently we'd fly out, depending on what

944
01:00:36,520 --> 01:00:39,120
Speaker 1: city we were in. He didn't like spending the night

945
01:00:39,280 --> 01:00:43,440
Speaker 1: in small towns. So if we were playing Making Georgia,

946
01:00:43,560 --> 01:00:45,760
Speaker 1: we would fly to Atlanta because he had a favorite

947
01:00:45,800 --> 01:00:51,760
Speaker 1: hotel there. If we were playing, well, the same same

948
01:00:51,800 --> 01:00:56,600
Speaker 1: thing wherever you were, if you were in you So

949
01:00:56,760 --> 01:00:58,800
Speaker 1: he had, you know, different places where he liked the

950
01:00:58,840 --> 01:01:01,200
Speaker 1: hotels and where they had late night food and things

951
01:01:01,280 --> 01:01:03,880
Speaker 1: to do and so on. So so we gotta look

952
01:01:04,360 --> 01:01:06,520
Speaker 1: if you happen to be flying with him on the

953
01:01:06,640 --> 01:01:10,400
Speaker 1: jet play the jet only seats five or six people

954
01:01:10,440 --> 01:01:14,520
Speaker 1: at Forget, but small. It's a small plane. And um,

955
01:01:15,280 --> 01:01:18,240
Speaker 1: it would be Danny Raid who was just fatily, and

956
01:01:18,880 --> 01:01:24,560
Speaker 1: Henry Stallings who was a bodyguards hair stylist, and maybe

957
01:01:24,720 --> 01:01:30,080
Speaker 1: his wife, maybe his girlfriend, right, and then there'd be

958
01:01:30,240 --> 01:01:32,560
Speaker 1: room if if he wanted to talk to one of

959
01:01:32,640 --> 01:01:34,920
Speaker 1: the musicians, maybe Will be pe we your Fred the

960
01:01:34,960 --> 01:01:37,000
Speaker 1: band leader, because he'd have an idea for a new

961
01:01:37,080 --> 01:01:39,680
Speaker 1: song or want to change something in the show and

962
01:01:40,720 --> 01:01:44,000
Speaker 1: make them fly with him. And on the weekends, because

963
01:01:44,040 --> 01:01:46,280
Speaker 1: I wasn't on the road constantly. Our job was in

964
01:01:46,400 --> 01:01:51,040
Speaker 1: the office Monday through Thursday, and then on Fridays, one

965
01:01:51,120 --> 01:01:52,760
Speaker 1: or both of us would fly out and meet the

966
01:01:52,800 --> 01:01:55,320
Speaker 1: show wherever it was and hang on the weekend and

967
01:01:55,360 --> 01:01:58,880
Speaker 1: then go back to the office. Um, unless we had

968
01:01:58,960 --> 01:02:01,600
Speaker 1: to go to another city to advance the promotion of

969
01:02:01,720 --> 01:02:05,200
Speaker 1: an upcoming show. Let's say tickets were slow selling in Nashville,

970
01:02:05,280 --> 01:02:08,000
Speaker 1: so maybe Brown, so you better go to Nashville and

971
01:02:08,240 --> 01:02:11,600
Speaker 1: go visit the radio stations and give the promotion to

972
01:02:11,680 --> 01:02:13,880
Speaker 1: boost you know that kind of thing. So we're not

973
01:02:14,040 --> 01:02:20,800
Speaker 1: on the same schedule as the show. Um, but he

974
01:02:22,440 --> 01:02:24,840
Speaker 1: you get the jet and there'd be food for him,

975
01:02:25,400 --> 01:02:30,000
Speaker 1: but nobody else, nobody else, and you just sit there

976
01:02:30,040 --> 01:02:35,520
Speaker 1: and watch the meat and it was you know, and

977
01:02:35,880 --> 01:02:38,200
Speaker 1: you just realize he's the boss and this this, this

978
01:02:38,360 --> 01:02:40,360
Speaker 1: is how he rolls, and and everybody else is on

979
01:02:40,440 --> 01:02:43,200
Speaker 1: their own, and you know it's like, Okay, I can

980
01:02:43,320 --> 01:02:46,720
Speaker 1: feed myself. I'm not gonna beg for food see my

981
01:02:46,920 --> 01:02:51,080
Speaker 1: rule is that it's a different time by I have

982
01:02:51,200 --> 01:02:54,000
Speaker 1: to buy five times as much because each member of

983
01:02:54,000 --> 01:02:56,200
Speaker 1: the Roots is going to ask me for a little bit.

984
01:02:58,800 --> 01:03:01,880
Speaker 1: Well listen, each one of the band could ask James

985
01:03:02,000 --> 01:03:03,640
Speaker 1: for food, Do you gonna have a fronch frying? And

986
01:03:03,680 --> 01:03:09,920
Speaker 1: he'd say no, that's all he got to learned his Nope.

987
01:03:11,160 --> 01:03:16,280
Speaker 1: I always wanted to know, Um, because of the way

988
01:03:16,320 --> 01:03:20,840
Speaker 1: that Otis riding passed away. Was he ever afraid of

989
01:03:21,000 --> 01:03:24,400
Speaker 1: flying on lear jets afterwards? Or you know, was he

990
01:03:24,520 --> 01:03:27,040
Speaker 1: like no more flying for me? He was a little

991
01:03:27,080 --> 01:03:31,120
Speaker 1: afraid all along, even before Otis's accident. I mean, he

992
01:03:31,280 --> 01:03:34,280
Speaker 1: was always a nervous flyer when it was bad weather.

993
01:03:34,880 --> 01:03:36,800
Speaker 1: And I was actually in the jet in a lightning

994
01:03:36,840 --> 01:03:39,920
Speaker 1: storm once and it wasn't fun. That thing bounced around

995
01:03:40,120 --> 01:03:44,560
Speaker 1: like like ping pong ball. Um, it's a small light

996
01:03:44,640 --> 01:03:47,840
Speaker 1: along to the next gig, Mr Brown, pretty much it

997
01:03:48,000 --> 01:03:50,560
Speaker 1: was a bit of an adventure and you could see

998
01:03:50,680 --> 01:03:52,520
Speaker 1: him tightening up. I mean he was you know, he

999
01:03:52,720 --> 01:03:56,560
Speaker 1: wasn't crazy, but he loved the convenience of it, the

1000
01:03:56,680 --> 01:03:59,800
Speaker 1: idea that he could play some stupid town and then

1001
01:04:00,280 --> 01:04:03,480
Speaker 1: and I mean, if I use the same example if

1002
01:04:03,520 --> 01:04:05,760
Speaker 1: we played Making Georgian, he didn't want to stay there.

1003
01:04:06,200 --> 01:04:09,000
Speaker 1: We'd be in Atlanta in the hotel by twelve thirty.

1004
01:04:09,400 --> 01:04:11,840
Speaker 1: You know, show comes down at ten thirty or eleven,

1005
01:04:12,600 --> 01:04:14,720
Speaker 1: and he drives off and you get out and you're

1006
01:04:14,760 --> 01:04:17,880
Speaker 1: in a plane by twelve, and you know, well, okay,

1007
01:04:17,920 --> 01:04:20,880
Speaker 1: maybe not twelve thirty, but wonder one thirty. You know,

1008
01:04:20,960 --> 01:04:24,080
Speaker 1: it's still doable hours in a major city, you can

1009
01:04:24,120 --> 01:04:27,400
Speaker 1: probably still find something decent to eat. I have a

1010
01:04:27,480 --> 01:04:32,000
Speaker 1: question about advances. Normally, at least a day, tour managers

1011
01:04:32,680 --> 01:04:36,080
Speaker 1: collect the money now, at least in our standard today,

1012
01:04:37,040 --> 01:04:40,040
Speaker 1: when you book an act, uh, you're supposed to have

1013
01:04:40,160 --> 01:04:43,760
Speaker 1: half the money up front in months in evance, three

1014
01:04:43,840 --> 01:04:48,080
Speaker 1: or four months in evance, and before said act goes

1015
01:04:48,240 --> 01:04:51,960
Speaker 1: on stage, maybe an hour before, you're supposed to settle

1016
01:04:53,080 --> 01:04:55,880
Speaker 1: advances and get the rest of the deposit before they

1017
01:04:55,920 --> 01:05:00,080
Speaker 1: go on stage. Was it always that protocol or did

1018
01:05:00,080 --> 01:05:02,360
Speaker 1: you guys have to wait until all box office for

1019
01:05:02,440 --> 01:05:06,120
Speaker 1: seats were counted Because we were promoting most of the

1020
01:05:06,200 --> 01:05:09,640
Speaker 1: shows ourselves. We were waiting for somebody to pay us.

1021
01:05:09,720 --> 01:05:12,840
Speaker 1: It was our money. So who's there to count like,

1022
01:05:12,880 --> 01:05:17,320
Speaker 1: who's there to make sure that you know manager personal

1023
01:05:17,400 --> 01:05:20,960
Speaker 1: manager when I'm on the road, me or Bob Patton,

1024
01:05:21,000 --> 01:05:24,960
Speaker 1: who was my colleague with booking New Tour, whichever one

1025
01:05:25,040 --> 01:05:27,120
Speaker 1: of us was there, we were all there. We would

1026
01:05:27,160 --> 01:05:29,960
Speaker 1: all go up and we would do the settlements. But

1027
01:05:30,200 --> 01:05:33,640
Speaker 1: the settlements wouldn't You had to wait for the box

1028
01:05:33,720 --> 01:05:36,200
Speaker 1: office to close. So if the show started at eight,

1029
01:05:36,720 --> 01:05:41,000
Speaker 1: chances are you can't start settling until there's no deposits

1030
01:05:41,080 --> 01:05:44,640
Speaker 1: because we're renting the buildings. Were the promoters? I see?

1031
01:05:45,360 --> 01:05:49,840
Speaker 1: So who's to stop? Said? Uh, let's all right in.

1032
01:05:49,880 --> 01:05:53,200
Speaker 1: We're in Chattanooga, Tennessee, right now at a at a theater.

1033
01:05:53,640 --> 01:05:57,200
Speaker 1: So who's to stop the I mean the guy that

1034
01:05:57,320 --> 01:06:01,920
Speaker 1: the house manager, somebody from letting is eight family members

1035
01:06:01,960 --> 01:06:04,680
Speaker 1: in for free? Like you know that there's six hundred

1036
01:06:04,760 --> 01:06:08,920
Speaker 1: seats in the theater and you know the show sold out? Sir?

1037
01:06:09,160 --> 01:06:17,600
Speaker 1: Are you saying that, okay? Well six tickets at you know? Whatever?

1038
01:06:18,280 --> 01:06:22,440
Speaker 1: Are you? Who's doing force? If someone comes short? All right,

1039
01:06:22,480 --> 01:06:25,840
Speaker 1: here's what happens the box office. And you know there

1040
01:06:25,880 --> 01:06:30,000
Speaker 1: were variations on this, but let's use the the standard rule.

1041
01:06:30,440 --> 01:06:32,680
Speaker 1: The box office of a venue would give you a

1042
01:06:32,840 --> 01:06:35,720
Speaker 1: report at some point on ten o'clock at night, and

1043
01:06:35,800 --> 01:06:38,360
Speaker 1: on that report would be how many tickets were sold

1044
01:06:38,440 --> 01:06:42,960
Speaker 1: at which price, because you have different prices, three tickets,

1045
01:06:43,280 --> 01:06:46,400
Speaker 1: all tickets or whatever, how many comps came to the door,

1046
01:06:48,640 --> 01:06:52,400
Speaker 1: And if the number of comps was reasonable, you wouldn't

1047
01:06:52,400 --> 01:06:54,960
Speaker 1: squawk about it, because if if, if, if you had

1048
01:06:55,000 --> 01:06:59,440
Speaker 1: a successful date and and the manager of the building

1049
01:06:59,640 --> 01:07:02,560
Speaker 1: one to let his kids in. To use your example,

1050
01:07:03,520 --> 01:07:05,160
Speaker 1: it's like, I'm not going to make an issue of

1051
01:07:05,240 --> 01:07:07,400
Speaker 1: that because we want to play that building again, and

1052
01:07:07,480 --> 01:07:10,200
Speaker 1: I want this building manager to give us first DIBs

1053
01:07:10,240 --> 01:07:15,120
Speaker 1: at good dates. We would even tip them literally literally

1054
01:07:15,200 --> 01:07:18,800
Speaker 1: tip them. Yeah, I mean, these weren't city employees. And

1055
01:07:18,840 --> 01:07:20,600
Speaker 1: I talk about this in the book too, and how

1056
01:07:20,680 --> 01:07:23,520
Speaker 1: different the business was about then basically what the book

1057
01:07:23,600 --> 01:07:28,960
Speaker 1: is about. And um, they were city employees that made,

1058
01:07:29,600 --> 01:07:36,400
Speaker 1: you know, very middle class if if that income they're

1059
01:07:36,440 --> 01:07:41,120
Speaker 1: on salary from the city that manage these these m arenas.

1060
01:07:41,960 --> 01:07:48,720
Speaker 1: Oh so they weren't privately owned, No, it's it's it varied.

1061
01:07:48,760 --> 01:07:51,000
Speaker 1: Do you take five venues, the structures of them might

1062
01:07:51,040 --> 01:07:53,640
Speaker 1: be completely different if you're playing a theater and might

1063
01:07:53,720 --> 01:07:58,280
Speaker 1: be privately owned. If you're playing a dance hall, it

1064
01:07:58,440 --> 01:08:02,240
Speaker 1: might be it might be a local promoter who rented

1065
01:08:02,320 --> 01:08:05,840
Speaker 1: the building and you're dealing with that promoter. Um, if

1066
01:08:05,880 --> 01:08:08,440
Speaker 1: you play the apollo, you're dealing with in the theater.

1067
01:08:08,920 --> 01:08:11,440
Speaker 1: But if you're playing an arena, which is mostly what

1068
01:08:11,640 --> 01:08:15,280
Speaker 1: we were doing when I was there, the guys who

1069
01:08:15,400 --> 01:08:20,880
Speaker 1: run those buildings are they're usually city owned buildings. Okay,

1070
01:08:21,240 --> 01:08:25,880
Speaker 1: you go to Roanoke, Virginia's Cincinnati. Um, there's there's no

1071
01:08:26,000 --> 01:08:29,680
Speaker 1: Donald Trump building arenas there was, you know, and this

1072
01:08:29,920 --> 01:08:32,519
Speaker 1: was before they were sponsorships in the arena's all had

1073
01:08:32,640 --> 01:08:35,200
Speaker 1: names of banks and stuff on him, because he didn't

1074
01:08:35,240 --> 01:08:37,960
Speaker 1: have that. And even then, if if, if, if the

1075
01:08:38,040 --> 01:08:40,479
Speaker 1: bank is sponsoring an arena, it doesn't mean they run.

1076
01:08:40,720 --> 01:08:43,439
Speaker 1: There's still a guy who's got the job to run

1077
01:08:43,479 --> 01:08:45,920
Speaker 1: the arena, run the box office and so on. And

1078
01:08:46,000 --> 01:08:48,080
Speaker 1: these are not guys get rich. They're just start a

1079
01:08:48,160 --> 01:08:51,719
Speaker 1: city salary. If it's assuming it's the city owned building.

1080
01:08:52,360 --> 01:08:55,120
Speaker 1: So um, you know, so you can look together. Way

1081
01:08:55,160 --> 01:08:59,160
Speaker 1: as long as the cops were koshers, you know, five

1082
01:08:59,560 --> 01:09:03,439
Speaker 1: comps gonna fight, but you know, if it's twenty, who cares?

1083
01:09:03,680 --> 01:09:05,720
Speaker 1: And mind you, we would also give out comps to

1084
01:09:05,840 --> 01:09:09,560
Speaker 1: radio people and newspaper people, and you know, anybody was

1085
01:09:09,600 --> 01:09:13,360
Speaker 1: going to help us build the promotion. So cops were like,

1086
01:09:13,920 --> 01:09:16,240
Speaker 1: it was you know, it was a commodity that we

1087
01:09:16,320 --> 01:09:21,160
Speaker 1: could use to influence the promotion. So there'd always be

1088
01:09:21,200 --> 01:09:23,360
Speaker 1: a certain amount of comps. But but here's the deal.

1089
01:09:24,360 --> 01:09:28,760
Speaker 1: If you didn't trust the promoter or the building for

1090
01:09:28,880 --> 01:09:32,559
Speaker 1: any reason at all, the only way you could deal

1091
01:09:32,640 --> 01:09:35,400
Speaker 1: with it then was count the ticket stubbs to see

1092
01:09:35,479 --> 01:09:37,920
Speaker 1: if the ticket stub counts. Because you get a stub,

1093
01:09:38,080 --> 01:09:39,880
Speaker 1: they tear the ticket when you come in and throw

1094
01:09:39,920 --> 01:09:44,200
Speaker 1: it in a bucket and keep the stubbs right. So

1095
01:09:44,400 --> 01:09:47,120
Speaker 1: there were nights where we literally had to sit down

1096
01:09:47,400 --> 01:09:51,720
Speaker 1: and count thousands of ticket stubs, and you'd be there

1097
01:09:51,840 --> 01:09:55,320
Speaker 1: till two in the morning because you felt something about

1098
01:09:55,360 --> 01:09:57,559
Speaker 1: the report was fishy. It's like, well, I mean, if

1099
01:09:57,600 --> 01:10:01,160
Speaker 1: there's ten thousand tickets ten I was in seats in here,

1100
01:10:02,000 --> 01:10:04,360
Speaker 1: the place is jam packed, and you're telling me you

1101
01:10:04,560 --> 01:10:11,840
Speaker 1: sold tickets. M hmm, it's bullshit. So now I'm going

1102
01:10:11,920 --> 01:10:15,559
Speaker 1: to count the ticket stubs. Now. What stopped them from

1103
01:10:15,600 --> 01:10:19,679
Speaker 1: pulling out a thousand stubs before I got up there? Nothing?

1104
01:10:21,360 --> 01:10:24,000
Speaker 1: So there were sometimes where we actually would put a

1105
01:10:24,120 --> 01:10:30,840
Speaker 1: guy on the door with a clicker really to count

1106
01:10:30,920 --> 01:10:33,519
Speaker 1: the people that came in so that you could then

1107
01:10:33,640 --> 01:10:38,200
Speaker 1: match that. In some venues, the tickets were just rolls

1108
01:10:38,280 --> 01:10:40,519
Speaker 1: of tickets and were numbered, and you get the number

1109
01:10:40,560 --> 01:10:42,920
Speaker 1: of the starting ticket so you could do the math

1110
01:10:43,040 --> 01:10:44,960
Speaker 1: at the end of the night. It was a moment

1111
01:10:45,080 --> 01:10:48,479
Speaker 1: pop business. So I have a question. I would assume

1112
01:10:48,520 --> 01:10:52,519
Speaker 1: that you guys were the standard or the best game

1113
01:10:52,600 --> 01:10:57,200
Speaker 1: in town for a black tour And during that period,

1114
01:10:59,120 --> 01:11:05,240
Speaker 1: what stopped MYB activity from wanting to I was getting

1115
01:11:05,280 --> 01:11:08,360
Speaker 1: ready to go there? Yea, what stops MYB activity from

1116
01:11:08,400 --> 01:11:12,360
Speaker 1: saying like, oh, like now, it's hard to do because corporations,

1117
01:11:12,520 --> 01:11:17,479
Speaker 1: like if you remember that Sopranos episode where where Tony's

1118
01:11:17,520 --> 01:11:20,000
Speaker 1: guys like going to the Starbucks for the first time

1119
01:11:20,320 --> 01:11:22,840
Speaker 1: and they're trying to shake down the Starbucks and then

1120
01:11:22,880 --> 01:11:25,240
Speaker 1: it's slowly realizing like, oh, this isn't like a mom

1121
01:11:25,320 --> 01:11:28,800
Speaker 1: and pop operation like art, and they realize like, oh, ship,

1122
01:11:28,880 --> 01:11:32,800
Speaker 1: we're dinosaurs because we can't shake down a corporation like

1123
01:11:32,960 --> 01:11:38,800
Speaker 1: we used to, so or not? What stops like have

1124
01:11:38,960 --> 01:11:42,360
Speaker 1: people try to I want a piece of the action.

1125
01:11:44,000 --> 01:11:46,280
Speaker 1: How do you wrangle out of that? Like how do

1126
01:11:46,400 --> 01:11:50,439
Speaker 1: you You don't have a manager who's mommed up, you

1127
01:11:50,520 --> 01:11:53,559
Speaker 1: don't have a booking agency that's mobbed up, and you're

1128
01:11:53,600 --> 01:11:56,200
Speaker 1: not on a record company that's mopped up. And there

1129
01:11:56,280 --> 01:11:59,800
Speaker 1: were mobbed influences in all three of those areas, but

1130
01:12:00,200 --> 01:12:03,360
Speaker 1: there were protects you. Who protects you from someone trying

1131
01:12:03,400 --> 01:12:09,919
Speaker 1: to edging? Who's to stop age Knight of the sixties.

1132
01:12:10,240 --> 01:12:11,920
Speaker 1: The only thing I can say is this. When I

1133
01:12:12,000 --> 01:12:13,880
Speaker 1: went to work with James, one of the things he

1134
01:12:14,000 --> 01:12:17,120
Speaker 1: told me is if anybody fishy ever tries to buddy

1135
01:12:17,280 --> 01:12:20,120
Speaker 1: up to you and acts like they want in or

1136
01:12:20,200 --> 01:12:23,559
Speaker 1: want to get next to me, or become your friend

1137
01:12:25,600 --> 01:12:28,360
Speaker 1: and make offers that sound too good to be true,

1138
01:12:28,920 --> 01:12:32,679
Speaker 1: let me know immediately. And that was his way of saying,

1139
01:12:34,160 --> 01:12:39,800
Speaker 1: don't let that happen. Mm hmmm. And I can only

1140
01:12:39,960 --> 01:12:43,479
Speaker 1: say that he was smart enough and discriminating enough about

1141
01:12:43,520 --> 01:12:46,240
Speaker 1: who he hired that there was never one of us

1142
01:12:46,320 --> 01:12:52,080
Speaker 1: in a position that could have encouraged that kind of development.

1143
01:12:54,280 --> 01:12:56,360
Speaker 1: And I'm sure it was trying meeting to listen to

1144
01:12:56,479 --> 01:13:00,559
Speaker 1: my I've had pieces of studios, recording studios in New York.

1145
01:13:00,720 --> 01:13:03,920
Speaker 1: The Mob had certain a lot of independent record labels,

1146
01:13:03,920 --> 01:13:07,360
Speaker 1: were bopped up. There were several booking agencies that booked

1147
01:13:07,360 --> 01:13:09,639
Speaker 1: Black Guardians that were mopped up, not all of them.

1148
01:13:12,720 --> 01:13:16,639
Speaker 1: They were everywhere time out, Time out, ladies and gentlemen.

1149
01:13:16,760 --> 01:13:18,720
Speaker 1: I knew you hate when this happens, but you know

1150
01:13:18,840 --> 01:13:21,720
Speaker 1: it had to happen. Yes, you're gonna have to wait

1151
01:13:21,760 --> 01:13:25,000
Speaker 1: for a part two of this story with Allen Leads.

1152
01:13:25,040 --> 01:13:27,280
Speaker 1: Of course, he has a gazillion stories. And yes, you

1153
01:13:27,439 --> 01:13:29,880
Speaker 1: Prince fans, I'm not gonna leave you out. You know

1154
01:13:30,040 --> 01:13:32,360
Speaker 1: good and well. He's gonna tell some print stories in

1155
01:13:32,439 --> 01:13:35,760
Speaker 1: addition to Moore James Brown stories. So tune in next

1156
01:13:35,800 --> 01:13:39,320
Speaker 1: week for another epic episode of the Allen Leads Quest

1157
01:13:39,400 --> 01:13:47,080
Speaker 1: Love Supreme return show. Thank You Court Love Supreme is

1158
01:13:47,080 --> 01:13:50,799
Speaker 1: a production I Heart Radio. This classic episode was produced

1159
01:13:50,840 --> 01:13:56,920
Speaker 1: by the team at Pandora. For more podcasts for my

1160
01:13:57,040 --> 01:14:00,000
Speaker 1: heart Radio, visit the i Heart Radio app Apple Podcast

1161
01:14:00,040 --> 01:14:02,360
Speaker 1: Asked or wherever you listen to your favorite shoes