1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,400 Speaker 1: The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely 2 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:07,440 Speaker 1: those of the podcast author or individuals participating in the podcast, 3 00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:11,520 Speaker 1: and do not necessarily represent those of iHeartMedia, How Stuff Works, 4 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:12,560 Speaker 1: or its employees. 5 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:19,800 Speaker 2: This guy is a pathological psycho killer. There's no doubt 6 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:20,279 Speaker 2: about it. 7 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:22,520 Speaker 3: Is there any doubt in your mind that there is 8 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 3: there is not any connection between Valleo and and. 9 00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 2: This we're shifting out now. I wouldn't say that there 10 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:32,800 Speaker 2: is any connection yet. I wouldn't want to tell you 11 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 2: that there isn't at this time. We have some pretty 12 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:39,879 Speaker 2: good physical evidence that we're working on now, and of 13 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:42,520 Speaker 2: course we're going to get together with the Valeo authorities. 14 00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:45,960 Speaker 2: We've been in contact with them since the incident, and 15 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 2: we definitely will pool our resources. 16 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:58,560 Speaker 4: The shores of Lake Berriessa always felt like a safe place, 17 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 4: and prior to September of nineteen sixty nine, there was 18 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:05,959 Speaker 4: no reason to think otherwise. Located about eighty miles north 19 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:08,920 Speaker 4: of the hard of San Francisco, it was quiet, it 20 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:11,440 Speaker 4: was remote. It was the perfect place to spend a 21 00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:15,679 Speaker 4: lazy afternoon swimming, playing in the tall grass, or just 22 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:19,880 Speaker 4: relaxing on a blanket on the water's edge. Unfortunately, all 23 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:22,959 Speaker 4: the qualities that made it an ideal getaway also made 24 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:33,480 Speaker 4: it the perfect place for other darker pursuits. 25 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:38,200 Speaker 1: We're standing on a peninsula at Lake Bury Essa, in 26 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:41,440 Speaker 1: this exact spot Brian Hartnell and the Cecilia Shepherd were 27 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 1: attacked in nineteen sixty nine. 28 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:47,560 Speaker 5: There's no boats, there's no planes. All you hear is 29 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 5: birds in the background. So I can't believe it, But 30 00:01:56,320 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 5: there's actually a couple shore on the actual island and 31 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 5: they're the only people we see here. I mean, you 32 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:07,080 Speaker 5: can't even make this stuff up. I think we should 33 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 5: go down and talk to him. You came here knowing 34 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:18,079 Speaker 5: what was here? 35 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:18,639 Speaker 6: What's here? 36 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:20,400 Speaker 7: Oh it's the same. 37 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:25,200 Speaker 8: Yeah, it's where the Zodiac killer killed that guy in 38 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:27,200 Speaker 8: that one girl right yeah. 39 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:29,480 Speaker 6: Yeah, didn't one of them get away? 40 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:32,679 Speaker 8: One of them lived, and then one of them died. 41 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:36,000 Speaker 8: The girl died in the hospital. I think, right, well, 42 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:38,920 Speaker 8: that's kind of crazy. Like whenever we drive here, I'm like, wow, 43 00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:41,880 Speaker 8: he drove the same exact way just to get here 44 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 8: and do that. It's crazy to think about. 45 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 5: It's very peaceful out here, it is. 46 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:50,040 Speaker 7: It doesn't seem like the place you get killed in. 47 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:54,200 Speaker 8: Probably ruined the whole lak thing for you. 48 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 3: In a mask, robbed, tied, and stabbed them, leaving them 49 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:03,839 Speaker 3: for dad. 50 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 2: Subjects stated, I want to report a murder, no a 51 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:09,720 Speaker 2: double murder. 52 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:13,600 Speaker 3: I did it a man who wore a medieval style 53 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:17,680 Speaker 3: executioners hood, carried a knife and gun and intended to 54 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:18,120 Speaker 3: use them. 55 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:22,360 Speaker 9: They haven't arrested me because they can't prove a thing. 56 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 10: I'm not the damn Zodiac. 57 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 3: Who is the Zodiac and where is he from? 58 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:33,240 Speaker 4: iHeartRadio, how Stuff works and Tenderfoot TV. This is Monster, 59 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:34,840 Speaker 4: the Zodiac killer. 60 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:47,840 Speaker 11: Dear editor, this is the Zodiac speaking in answer to 61 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:50,120 Speaker 11: your asking for more details about the good times I've 62 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 11: had in Vallejo. I shall be very happy to supply 63 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:57,240 Speaker 11: even more material. The boy was originally sitting in the 64 00:03:57,240 --> 00:04:01,120 Speaker 11: front seat when I began firing. When I fired the 65 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 11: first shot at his head, he leaped backwards at the 66 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:08,800 Speaker 11: same time, thus spoiling my aim. He ended up on 67 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 11: the back seat, then the floor and back, thrashing out 68 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:17,600 Speaker 11: very violently with his legs. That's how I shot him 69 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:19,760 Speaker 11: in the knee. I did not leave the scene of 70 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:22,800 Speaker 11: the killing with squealing tires and racing engine as described 71 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 11: in the Vallejo paper. I drove away quite slowly. 72 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:30,479 Speaker 1: So it was late September nineteen sixty nine, and most, 73 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:32,800 Speaker 1: if not all, of the residents of the nearby bay 74 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 1: area were well aware of a killer operating on the outskirts, 75 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:40,880 Speaker 1: and now the killer had a name. In September of 76 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:44,200 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty nine, Napa County was still a place for 77 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:45,840 Speaker 1: relaxation and enjoyment. 78 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:52,920 Speaker 7: On September twenty seventh, nineteen sixty nine, a college student, 79 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:56,240 Speaker 7: Cecilia Shepherd and Brian Hartnell decided to go to Lake 80 00:04:56,279 --> 00:04:59,320 Speaker 7: barry Essa to spend some time together. They had dated 81 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:02,159 Speaker 7: in the years and they were still friends. They wanted 82 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 7: to go out to Lake barry Essa, which is an 83 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:10,760 Speaker 7: absolutely beautiful location north of Napa, California. It's a massive 84 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:15,039 Speaker 7: body of water. It's a man made lake, green hills, 85 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:21,080 Speaker 7: green trees everywhere, lots of foliage, beautiful sunsets there reflected 86 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:24,280 Speaker 7: on the water. It's an amazing place to be. If 87 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:26,680 Speaker 7: you drive around the lake and you look around, you 88 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:29,960 Speaker 7: be amazed by how beautiful that area is, and then 89 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 7: instantly you will think, what kind of person looks at 90 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:35,600 Speaker 7: this as a setting for a brutal crime. 91 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 1: The events in Napa County would be different. The zodiac 92 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:45,440 Speaker 1: was becoming more bold, emerging from the shadows. 93 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:50,360 Speaker 3: Early last Saturday evening, Celia Shepherd and Brian Hartnell, both 94 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 3: in their early twenties, were sitting on this knoll of 95 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:57,160 Speaker 3: land overlooking part of Lake barry Esa. They thought they 96 00:05:57,160 --> 00:05:59,839 Speaker 3: were alone, but there was a third man on this 97 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:04,680 Speaker 3: a man who wore a medieval style executioner's hood, carried 98 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 3: a knife and gun and intended to use them. 99 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:15,920 Speaker 7: Brian and Cecilia decided to sit out on the banks 100 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 7: and talk and whatever. And at a certain point Cecilia 101 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:27,560 Speaker 7: noticed a man up in the trees, and she commented 102 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:29,479 Speaker 7: to Brian that there was a man up there, and 103 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:31,359 Speaker 7: Brian thought, oh, it's no big deal. He might just 104 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:36,360 Speaker 7: be doing whatever. But then the man got closer, and 105 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:40,560 Speaker 7: at a certain point he donned a costume, and then 106 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:45,839 Speaker 7: he stepped out and approached the victims. This costume was 107 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 7: dark with four corners on the top made it look 108 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:53,680 Speaker 7: a little bit like a paper bag covered with fabric 109 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 7: over his head, and there was a chest piece that 110 00:06:57,160 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 7: came down over his chest with a white crossed circle 111 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:02,880 Speaker 7: on it, which is the same symbol that he had 112 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:10,920 Speaker 7: used in his previous letters. He approached the victims at 113 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 7: gunpoint and he said that he was an escaped convict 114 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:19,160 Speaker 7: from a prison, either in Montana or Colorado. We're not 115 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:22,600 Speaker 7: sure what he actually said, but that he needed their 116 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 7: car keys and money to escape to Mexico. Brian and 117 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 7: Cecilia thought they were just being robbed, and although Brian 118 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:33,080 Speaker 7: at one point said that he thought he could have 119 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:35,960 Speaker 7: gotten the gun away from the man, he was worried 120 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 7: that something might happen, that the man might shoot them 121 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 7: or something, so he thought, we'll just cooperate and get 122 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 7: through this and. 123 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:43,120 Speaker 12: It'll be over. 124 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:46,040 Speaker 7: The zodiac said he needed to tie them up, and 125 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:50,040 Speaker 7: he provided some pre cut links of plastic clothesline courtingly, 126 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 7: and he had Cecilia type Brian and then he tied 127 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 7: her up and once they were laying on the ground, 128 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 7: I guess Brian Hartnell said to the man, is that 129 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:02,120 Speaker 7: gun really loaded? 130 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 12: And the man opened the. 131 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:05,960 Speaker 7: Gun and showed him yes, there were bullets in there, 132 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:12,239 Speaker 7: and then out of nowhere, the man started stabbing Brian 133 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:17,760 Speaker 7: Hartnell on the back with a foot long knife, and 134 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:21,720 Speaker 7: apparently he stabbed Brian Hartnell at least six times, and 135 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:24,560 Speaker 7: Brian Hartnell decided that it was best to pretend to 136 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:28,480 Speaker 7: be dead, so he just stopped moving, and that apparently 137 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 7: satisfied the killer, which is another indication of what his 138 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 7: motives were. Soon as Brian stopped moving, he moved on 139 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 7: as Cecilia. Now, unfortunately, as Brian described me, Cecilia had 140 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:45,720 Speaker 7: to watch Brian be stabbed, and because of that she 141 00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:48,199 Speaker 7: was even more frightened when the man turned on her, 142 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 7: and unlike Brian, she fought back, and because of that 143 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:54,920 Speaker 7: she was stabbed many more times. She was stabbed at 144 00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 7: ten times in the front and in the back. Then 145 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:03,559 Speaker 7: the killer appeared to be satiated. He stood up walked away. 146 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:06,880 Speaker 7: He walked up the hill to where Brian Hartnell's white 147 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 7: Carmen Gia was parked. He took out a marker and 148 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:15,360 Speaker 7: he left a message on the car door. It was 149 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:19,959 Speaker 7: a crossed circle symbol. Below that were the dates twelve, 150 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 7: twenty sixty eight and seven four sixty nine, which were 151 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:26,160 Speaker 7: the dates of the murders on Lake Kerman Road in 152 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:29,440 Speaker 7: the shooting at Blue Rock Springs Park, and then it 153 00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:33,760 Speaker 7: said sept for the month of September twenty seventh, sixty 154 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:44,439 Speaker 7: nine six point thirty by knife. Brian and Cecilia were 155 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 7: struggling with their wounds. They were bleeding profusely, but they 156 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:51,400 Speaker 7: managed to free themselves and Brian tried to crawl off 157 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 7: to get help. Fishermen came by with his son in 158 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:57,079 Speaker 7: a boat and saw the. 159 00:09:57,080 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 12: Victims and went off to get help. 160 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:03,400 Speaker 7: Park ranger and others returned later and waited with the 161 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 7: victims until the ambulance. 162 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:05,160 Speaker 6: Right. 163 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:07,760 Speaker 9: Yeah, when I arrived on the scene that Saturday night 164 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 9: around seven thirteen, when found this young girl in on 165 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 9: the shoreline here, all stabbed in several places, and her 166 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:21,319 Speaker 9: boyfriend male companion had came too from He had been 167 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:25,199 Speaker 9: stabbed and he had taken off for help. And the 168 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 9: other patrolman came in, which is Dennish Land. He found 169 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:32,320 Speaker 9: him some hundred yards from here, passed out, so he 170 00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:35,400 Speaker 9: brough him back the scene of the where the girl was. 171 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 9: I've had eleven years patrol on this lake and I've 172 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 9: seen a lot of people cut up by boat accidents 173 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:43,280 Speaker 9: in this but this is one of the worst things 174 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:46,240 Speaker 9: I ever witnessed. For no reason at all, just a 175 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:48,280 Speaker 9: hooded man came up with a pistol drawn on him, 176 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 9: tied him up and then told him, he. 177 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:51,079 Speaker 6: Had to kill him. 178 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:55,640 Speaker 1: Cecilia Shepherd initially survived the attack, but slipped into a 179 00:10:55,679 --> 00:10:58,120 Speaker 1: coma on her way to the hospital and died two 180 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:02,760 Speaker 1: days later on Monday, September two, nineteen sixty nine. Brian 181 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:07,280 Speaker 1: Hartnell survived. Brian, in an interview from his hospital bed, 182 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:10,080 Speaker 1: describes how he found the strength to live that night. 183 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:13,400 Speaker 13: At the beginning, I did think I was going to die, 184 00:11:13,559 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 13: and so from that moment on one has to. 185 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:18,880 Speaker 14: Have certain goals that you have to set. The first goal, 186 00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:23,120 Speaker 14: of course, was to live. I suppose the second goal 187 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:27,480 Speaker 14: was to get untied. The next one was to get help, 188 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 14: and getting help getting to the hospital. You know, you 189 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:34,439 Speaker 14: have to have a successful set of goals. 190 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:36,600 Speaker 13: And if you can keep this going and you can 191 00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:40,800 Speaker 13: keep your mind active, I don't whether you die or not, 192 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:41,160 Speaker 13: you're at. 193 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:43,160 Speaker 14: Least psychologically. 194 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:47,560 Speaker 13: Attune, whether you're in shock or not, if you can 195 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 13: keep arguing with yourself, praying, doing anything to keep your 196 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:56,720 Speaker 13: mind off of yourself, or at least just not lapsing 197 00:11:56,760 --> 00:11:58,520 Speaker 13: back and just saying well, it's no use. 198 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:03,520 Speaker 3: Brian will probably be able to leave Queen of the 199 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:07,480 Speaker 3: Valley Hospital fairly soon. But where he's going from here 200 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:10,160 Speaker 3: is being kept secret. In the event that the man 201 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 3: who attacked him and killed Cecilia Shepherd on Lake Barry esa, 202 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:17,840 Speaker 3: we could go Saturday tries again. Brian made it for 203 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:21,600 Speaker 3: two reasons some people might regard as intangibles, but reasons 204 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:25,400 Speaker 3: that for him were enough. A strong faith and an 205 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:30,560 Speaker 3: equally strong will to live. Dave Moncey's eyewitness news at 206 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:32,520 Speaker 3: Queen of the Valley Hospital. 207 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:02,920 Speaker 1: Because he survived, Brian Hartnell was able to help the 208 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:07,120 Speaker 1: investigators by providing detailed descriptions of the zodiac's elaborate costume 209 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:09,520 Speaker 1: in the way he spoke to the couple before the attack. 210 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:13,440 Speaker 7: In the hospital, Brian was interviewed and described the killer, 211 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:17,199 Speaker 7: described the exchange they had, the conversation they had had, 212 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:22,319 Speaker 7: and he also described the killer's costume in great detail. Unfortunately, 213 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:25,280 Speaker 7: Brian could not see the killer's face, but he could 214 00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 7: describe the killer's voice, and he thought that the killer 215 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:32,440 Speaker 7: seemed like a younger person, maybe a student, and that 216 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 7: he appeared to have some kind of a drawl, not 217 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:41,199 Speaker 7: a Southern drawl, but some form of an accent. Cecilia, 218 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:43,320 Speaker 7: when she had seen the man before he put on 219 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:46,080 Speaker 7: the mask, thought that he had dark hair, and then 220 00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:49,000 Speaker 7: when he was wearing the costume, there's some evidence that 221 00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:51,439 Speaker 7: Brian could see some of the hair through the eye 222 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:54,319 Speaker 7: holes in the costume and thought that the man had 223 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 7: greasy brown hair, which was in some ways compatible with 224 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:02,280 Speaker 7: the previous description given by Michael Michau. But of course 225 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 7: without seeing his face, you couldn't say for sure. 226 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:09,080 Speaker 1: Brian was fortunate to survive. But there's another side to 227 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:13,680 Speaker 1: the story that most people don't consider survivor's guilt. 228 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:18,160 Speaker 7: In nineteen ninety nine, I spoke with Brian Hartnell and 229 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:20,920 Speaker 7: he told me some things about that day which put 230 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 7: a lot. 231 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:22,520 Speaker 12: Of things in context. 232 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 7: He did talk about his desire to take the gun 233 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:28,520 Speaker 7: away from the man, and then wrestling with the fear 234 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:30,840 Speaker 7: that doing so might make matters worse and that he 235 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 7: might endanger Cecilia. And that was a tremendous responsibility, a 236 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:38,040 Speaker 7: burden to be carrying, because as the man, especially in 237 00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:42,560 Speaker 7: nineteen sixty nine, you're expected to protect the woman. Put 238 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:46,040 Speaker 7: yourself in Brian's position. You're there with a woman that 239 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:48,560 Speaker 7: you care about and a man walks up with a 240 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:51,840 Speaker 7: gun and says he's just going to rob you, and 241 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:53,960 Speaker 7: part of you wants to fight back. But part of 242 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:55,920 Speaker 7: you is worried that you're going to make things worse 243 00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:58,520 Speaker 7: and get somebody hurt. I do know that he did 244 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:03,480 Speaker 7: feel some responsible for what happened to her. He also 245 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 7: talked about the fact that their faith helped them get 246 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:11,440 Speaker 7: through this. After the killer left and they were sitting there, 247 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 7: bleeding and trying to get out of their bindings, they 248 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:18,080 Speaker 7: prayed together and they said that that helped them get 249 00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:18,920 Speaker 7: through the ordeal. 250 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:23,000 Speaker 12: Brian crawled out onto the road. 251 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 7: He was bleeding so profusely that if the ambulance probably 252 00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 7: had not come when it did, there's a good chance 253 00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:33,520 Speaker 7: that he might not have survived. And he told me 254 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:39,280 Speaker 7: that the knife came very close to his heart, just 255 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:42,440 Speaker 7: an inch in another direction, and Brian probably would have 256 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:44,920 Speaker 7: died that day and we would have never heard anything 257 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 7: about this story. But he also struggled with the fact 258 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:52,520 Speaker 7: that later on he had to think about the conversation 259 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 7: he had with the Zodiac, where the Zodiac was basically 260 00:15:56,920 --> 00:15:59,400 Speaker 7: telling him I'm just going to rob you, and Brian thought, well, 261 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 7: maybe with my legal experience he was a law student, 262 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:07,000 Speaker 7: maybe I could help this man. Maybe I could talk 263 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:07,360 Speaker 7: to him. 264 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:08,720 Speaker 12: He offered to help him. 265 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:12,320 Speaker 7: Get some help, and of course the Zodiac wasn't interested 266 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:14,280 Speaker 7: in any of that because it was all a ruse. 267 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:16,720 Speaker 7: He was just trying to get them to cooperate so 268 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:19,400 Speaker 7: he can get them tied up. So he had apparently 269 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:22,600 Speaker 7: created this scenario where he was going to use this 270 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:26,200 Speaker 7: ruse to convince them everything's okay. Cooperate with me and 271 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:28,360 Speaker 7: everything will be fine. And that's one of the most 272 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:31,680 Speaker 7: terrifying aspects of that is that he actually got them 273 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:37,160 Speaker 7: to participate in their own attack by convincing them this 274 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:38,680 Speaker 7: is the best thing for you to do. 275 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:40,960 Speaker 12: When he knew all along what he was going to. 276 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:41,440 Speaker 6: Do to them. 277 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:43,600 Speaker 7: This was not something that he just did on a 278 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 7: spur of the moment. Once they were tied up, he 279 00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:49,320 Speaker 7: tied them up for that specific purpose so they could 280 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:55,000 Speaker 7: not fight back. You believe somebody when they tell you 281 00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:58,280 Speaker 7: I just want to take your money, So you say, okay, 282 00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 7: all right, you can tie me up, and once that's done, 283 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:06,680 Speaker 7: you have no choice any it's over. Brian was very 284 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:09,400 Speaker 7: lucky that he survived, but I think, like a lot 285 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:12,399 Speaker 7: of other people, he also still struggles with some guilt 286 00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:15,760 Speaker 7: because he was the person who survived. He decided to 287 00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:18,480 Speaker 7: play dead and that appears to have made the big 288 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:22,359 Speaker 7: difference in why he's still here today. Cecilia did what 289 00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:24,600 Speaker 7: many of us would have done, which is fight for 290 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:28,280 Speaker 7: her life, and apparently she paid the price for that. 291 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:42,280 Speaker 1: And as it turns out, Zodiac was selective when choosing 292 00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:43,880 Speaker 1: his victims on that day at the lake. 293 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:47,399 Speaker 7: It was probably easier to escape that area during the 294 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:50,160 Speaker 7: day than it would have been at night. There's if 295 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 7: you've ever been to Lake Barrier, so there's lots of 296 00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:54,919 Speaker 7: winding roads, and it was even more so back in 297 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:57,479 Speaker 7: nineteen sixty nine when those roads weren't paved and they 298 00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:00,879 Speaker 7: were little dirt trails and things like that. He may 299 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:05,000 Speaker 7: have been familiar with that area and selected that spot specifically, 300 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:08,359 Speaker 7: but there's no guarantee there would be somebody there. So 301 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:11,680 Speaker 7: that might also explain why some witnesses saw a. 302 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:14,879 Speaker 12: Man walking around the area and just randomly looking at 303 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:17,680 Speaker 12: people and staring at them, because he may have been 304 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:21,400 Speaker 12: considering killing those people as well. There were three young 305 00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:24,560 Speaker 12: girls who I believe were sunbathing in an area of 306 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:27,919 Speaker 12: the lake who said a man was staring at them. 307 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:30,159 Speaker 12: If that was the Zodiac, you have to stop to 308 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:32,879 Speaker 12: think about what was going on. Was he looking at 309 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:34,800 Speaker 12: those people because he was trying to make sure they 310 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:38,320 Speaker 12: wouldn't pay any attention if he attacked someone else, or 311 00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:42,080 Speaker 12: was he considering attacking those three girls? And what's even 312 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:44,280 Speaker 12: more terrifying is that there was a man and his 313 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:47,960 Speaker 12: young son who said that they saw a similar individual. 314 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:52,840 Speaker 12: Was that guy stalking them and considering attacking a father 315 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:57,320 Speaker 12: and son? And why didn't he Did he become concerned 316 00:18:57,320 --> 00:19:01,040 Speaker 12: that someone might see him? Or did he notice that 317 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:04,680 Speaker 12: they had guns because they were apparently there's some people 318 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:07,600 Speaker 12: in the area who were hunting and target shooting and stuff. 319 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 12: So me he may have said, I don't want to 320 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:12,359 Speaker 12: risk somebody who's armed. 321 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:15,440 Speaker 7: Maybe he decided not to he didn't want to kill 322 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:18,120 Speaker 7: a little boy. I don't know, but it does indicate 323 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:21,000 Speaker 7: that he was entertaining a lot of different. 324 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:24,320 Speaker 12: Possibilities that day. And that's a drastic departure from what 325 00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:25,159 Speaker 12: he had done before. 326 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:32,920 Speaker 1: Was the Zodiac killing strictly for attention. He did seem 327 00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:35,360 Speaker 1: proud of his kills, bragging about them in a very 328 00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:38,760 Speaker 1: public way, But why such a dramatic turn of events 329 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:41,720 Speaker 1: at Lake Barriessa. The killer had changed his method of 330 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:46,119 Speaker 1: operation from shooting to knife attack. Doctor Eric Hickey, criminal 331 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:49,800 Speaker 1: psychologist at Walden University and consultant for the US Department 332 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:53,720 Speaker 1: of Defense, thinks it was all about progression, going from 333 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:56,879 Speaker 1: the somewhat detached method of killing with a gun to 334 00:19:56,960 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 1: the more up close and personal method of ending a 335 00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:01,200 Speaker 1: lit life with a blade. 336 00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 15: I don't think that he's already had really cared whether 337 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:05,959 Speaker 15: he was caught or not. But I think he liked 338 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:08,400 Speaker 15: the game, and I think when he went from shooting 339 00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:12,320 Speaker 15: to stabbing, shooting was just too easy, it was too quick, 340 00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:16,920 Speaker 15: but stabbing much more statistic, and I think he took 341 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:20,080 Speaker 15: probably some delight in doing that. And you see some 342 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:23,040 Speaker 15: of these guys and we don't know about some of them. 343 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:25,920 Speaker 15: We don't know exactly what Ted Bundy did to his victims. 344 00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:28,919 Speaker 15: We only heard some things because he did it in 345 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:31,520 Speaker 15: the woods. I'm sure he made them suffer a great deal, 346 00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:34,840 Speaker 15: but we don't know if it was progression with him 347 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:35,160 Speaker 15: or not. 348 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:40,200 Speaker 7: It's one thing to just walk up and stab people, 349 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:44,760 Speaker 7: but if you think about somebody like Ted Bundy, he 350 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:47,199 Speaker 7: could have just as easily walked up and hit a 351 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:49,199 Speaker 7: woman over the head with a crowbar and threw her 352 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:51,640 Speaker 7: in the trunk and driven off but there was some 353 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:54,960 Speaker 7: part of him that needed to lure them and fool 354 00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:58,000 Speaker 7: them into a false sense of security so that then 355 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:01,280 Speaker 7: he could turn around and spring it on them as 356 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:05,480 Speaker 7: a surprise. He needed to surprise women, and he needed 357 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:09,800 Speaker 7: this fooling them aspect for him to feel powerful. Well, 358 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:12,760 Speaker 7: there may have been with the Zodiac some element where 359 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:15,639 Speaker 7: he wasn't satisfied anymore just shooting people. 360 00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:20,440 Speaker 1: Was he moving from sudden, blind attacks to a much 361 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:25,200 Speaker 1: more controlled, ritualistic, or even sexual form of killing. The 362 00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:29,600 Speaker 1: killer's carefully crafted costume, complete with a handstitched Zodiac symbol, 363 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:33,320 Speaker 1: may hold a clue. The bizarre costume he designed and 364 00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:36,919 Speaker 1: then war for the Lake Barriesa attack still puzzles authorities 365 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:40,840 Speaker 1: and captivates the imagination of anyone who sees the police sketch. 366 00:21:41,600 --> 00:22:04,920 Speaker 1: Even now, fifty years later, the Zodiac's strange costume raises questions. 367 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:05,639 Speaker 7: At Lake barry Essa. He shows up with a bizarre 368 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:10,920 Speaker 7: costume with his chosen symbol on the chest, a bizarre 369 00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:13,920 Speaker 7: story about how he had escaped from a prison and 370 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,880 Speaker 7: he needed their money and car keys to escape to Mexico, 371 00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:20,080 Speaker 7: none of which appears to have been true. We know 372 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:22,919 Speaker 7: that this story wasn't concocted just to put them at ease, 373 00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:25,520 Speaker 7: because he could have said anything to put them at ease. 374 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:28,280 Speaker 7: And then you have to deal with the costume itself. 375 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:31,840 Speaker 7: Ken Narlow, who investigated the case for the Knappe County 376 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:35,479 Speaker 7: Sheriff's Office, said to me once, why is he wearing 377 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:38,560 Speaker 7: a mask? What's the point? If you're going to kill 378 00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:41,520 Speaker 7: these people, why are you covering your face? There's no 379 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:44,560 Speaker 7: evidence he did that in the previous crimes. And then 380 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:47,240 Speaker 7: at the same time, if he wants to cover his face, 381 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:49,479 Speaker 7: why isn't he just wearing a ski mask or something. 382 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:53,720 Speaker 7: Why this elaborate costume? And even more importantly, if he 383 00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:56,160 Speaker 7: was going to kill the victims, and as far as 384 00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:58,400 Speaker 7: we know, if help hadn't arrived when it did, it's 385 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:01,560 Speaker 7: very possible those victims could have died. And if they 386 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:04,240 Speaker 7: had died, none of us would ever know that the 387 00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:08,040 Speaker 7: Zodiac had worn that costume. So that costume was not 388 00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:11,720 Speaker 7: about getting attention. It was not about seeing it in 389 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:16,080 Speaker 7: the media or seeing those famous sketches of that costume. Now, 390 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:18,720 Speaker 7: he didn't appear to care whether we knew about that 391 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:22,600 Speaker 7: or not. That was for him, and it was for 392 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:25,199 Speaker 7: the victims, and the only reason we know about it 393 00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:28,640 Speaker 7: is because Brian Hartnell survived to tell us what happened. 394 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:31,000 Speaker 7: But if he had died, as far as we know, 395 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:33,600 Speaker 7: they had just been stabbed. So this whole thing about 396 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:37,400 Speaker 7: the costume and the story, that's all some private thing 397 00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:40,199 Speaker 7: that serves some inner need for the zodiac that we 398 00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:43,520 Speaker 7: don't really understand. But what I think it does tell 399 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:47,200 Speaker 7: you is that he had a very rich imagination of 400 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:51,119 Speaker 7: rich fantasy life, and he needed to feel a certain 401 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:53,800 Speaker 7: sense of power when he committed these crimes, more so 402 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:56,600 Speaker 7: than what would be provided if he just walked up 403 00:23:56,600 --> 00:24:03,879 Speaker 7: and shot you. It's obvious by that time, whether it 404 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:06,919 Speaker 7: was because of the media coverage or his own need 405 00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:10,639 Speaker 7: to be more than what he seemed to be, he 406 00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:15,280 Speaker 7: had created this image and then that image had to 407 00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:19,160 Speaker 7: be sustained with something. It couldn't just be writing letters. 408 00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:22,000 Speaker 7: And I think in some way, as much as he 409 00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:24,440 Speaker 7: didn't make any effort to make sure we knew about 410 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:27,000 Speaker 7: his costume, that wasn't the point. It was about him 411 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:32,680 Speaker 7: knowing about that costume, knowing that he has morphed transformed 412 00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:36,679 Speaker 7: into this new kind of thing, and then inflicting it 413 00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:40,160 Speaker 7: on someone because I think ultimately, as much as that 414 00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:44,040 Speaker 7: costume was meant to feed his ego or his fantasies, 415 00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:48,199 Speaker 7: it was also about the terror it would create in 416 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:51,280 Speaker 7: those who saw him coming Wearing that costume. 417 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:54,919 Speaker 1: The Zodiac had taken on the image of what he 418 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:58,439 Speaker 1: felt would instill the most fear in his victims. But 419 00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:02,199 Speaker 1: the question remains, did he create and wear this elaborate, 420 00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:06,040 Speaker 1: ritualistic costume for the benefit of himself or for his 421 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:10,200 Speaker 1: unfortunate victims. If there was no one left living after 422 00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:13,200 Speaker 1: the Lake Buriessa attack, no one would have ever known 423 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:17,760 Speaker 1: of his bizarre ritual and he certainly didn't expect any survivors. 424 00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:21,119 Speaker 1: We know this because of a phone call made to 425 00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:24,399 Speaker 1: the Napa County Sheriff's Department from a payphone outside of 426 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,960 Speaker 1: a car wash twenty seven miles away from the crime scene. 427 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:29,520 Speaker 1: That proves just that. 428 00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:46,959 Speaker 11: I want to report a murder, no, a double murder. 429 00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:52,440 Speaker 11: They are two miles north of park headquarters. They were 430 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:54,200 Speaker 11: in a white Volkswagen Karmen Gia. 431 00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:57,399 Speaker 10: I'm the one that did it. 432 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:13,879 Speaker 1: Whatever his motive, the Zodiac was clearly done operating in 433 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:17,200 Speaker 1: the shadows. He was now ready to take his crimes 434 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:20,560 Speaker 1: to a larger venue, somewhere he could really grab the 435 00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:24,439 Speaker 1: attention of the police and the public. Just two weeks 436 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:27,840 Speaker 1: after the Lake Berriesa attack in early October of nineteen 437 00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:31,399 Speaker 1: sixty nine, The Zodiac would bring his own brand of 438 00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:37,040 Speaker 1: terror into the heart of San Francisco. 439 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,000 Speaker 4: Next time on Monster the Zodiac Killer. 440 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:49,520 Speaker 6: He is a kid. He used kid, and he was 441 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:52,720 Speaker 6: playing downstairs and he just you know, looked outside the 442 00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:56,560 Speaker 6: window and saw yo cab and saw someone slats over 443 00:26:56,680 --> 00:27:00,680 Speaker 6: in the car. Come the finals a culprit of the Zodiac. 444 00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:04,920 Speaker 7: San Francisco is directly linked to the Zodiac Killer. There's 445 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:07,480 Speaker 7: no escaping it now. What he wanted in July of 446 00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:10,480 Speaker 7: nineteen sixty nine was for as many people to see 447 00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:13,680 Speaker 7: this as possible, to get as much attention as possible, 448 00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:16,919 Speaker 7: and to cement his image as a real threat. 449 00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:20,080 Speaker 10: I've covered a lot of killers with a lot higher 450 00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:22,639 Speaker 10: body counts and a lot more sick, twisted ways of 451 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:23,359 Speaker 10: killing people. 452 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:26,720 Speaker 7: This guy was theatrical. 453 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:30,639 Speaker 10: The Chronicle received a letter and only the Chronicle from 454 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:35,119 Speaker 10: the Zodiac. As the woman opened it in the editorial department, 455 00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:39,399 Speaker 10: a piece of bloody shirt fell out with the letter. 456 00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:54,639 Speaker 4: Monster the Zodiac Killer is a fifteen episode podcast produced 457 00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:59,480 Speaker 4: by iHeartRadio How Stuff Works in Tenderfoot TV. Donald Alright 458 00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:02,480 Speaker 4: and I are executive producers on behalf of Tenderfoot TV, 459 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:07,760 Speaker 4: alongside producers Meredith Steedman, Mason Lindsay, and Christina Dana. Jason 460 00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:10,600 Speaker 4: Hope is executive producer on behalf of House Stuff Works, 461 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:14,760 Speaker 4: along with producers Trevor Young, Miranda Hawkins, ben Keebrick, and 462 00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:20,000 Speaker 4: Josh Thain. Scott Benjamin provides additional voice Talent. Matt Frederick 463 00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:23,960 Speaker 4: is our host. Original music is by Makeup and Vanity Set. 464 00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:26,919 Speaker 4: If you haven't already, make sure to check out the 465 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:30,080 Speaker 4: first season of Monster called Atlanta Monster, about the Atlanta 466 00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:32,960 Speaker 4: child murders from the late seventies to the early eighties. 467 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:37,160 Speaker 4: Download the ten episode season right now. Have questions or comments, 468 00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 4: email us at monster at houstuffworks dot com, or you 469 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:44,720 Speaker 4: can call us at one eight three, three, two eight 470 00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:46,520 Speaker 4: five six six sixty seven. 471 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:48,000 Speaker 10: Thanks for listening.