Speaker 1: Hi listeners, welcome back. I'm nedrig lover to WIB and
Speaker 1: you need to hear this. Today we're talking to a
Speaker 1: caller who is having challenges in their friendship. Friendship is
Speaker 1: a relationship that we choose with people and hopefully all
Speaker 1: goes well, but when it does not, it is heartbreaking.
Speaker 1: There are not enough songs, not enough information for us
Speaker 1: to figure out how to deal with a friendship loss,
Speaker 1: friendship breakup, friendship communication. And so today we will be
Speaker 1: digging into having tough conversations in friendships, placing boundaries in
Speaker 1: friendships and when to decide if this is a friendship
Speaker 1: that you need to hang on to or release. There's
Speaker 1: something I once read that said, if a friendship gets
Speaker 1: to seven years, then you've done an amazing job and
Speaker 1: it's probably a long term friendship. But most of our
Speaker 1: friendships don't make it that long. Friends come in cycles,
Speaker 1: you know. We meet people in a certain stage of
Speaker 1: parenting that we may be in, or we may meet
Speaker 1: friends at a particular job and when we leave that job,
Speaker 1: we lose them. We meet friends where we're in a
Speaker 1: particular activity. We meet friends who are our neighbors. We
Speaker 1: meet people in seasons and sometimes those relationships don't transfer
Speaker 1: to that next season. It can be really challenging, particularly
Speaker 1: when you like a person right like just because our
Speaker 1: friendship and it doesn't mean there's anything wrong with you,
Speaker 1: it's nothing wrong with me. But we're in a different
Speaker 1: place now. You know, the person you used to know
Speaker 1: is no longer. They are the things we used to
Speaker 1: be able to do. They're not fun to me anymore,
Speaker 1: maybe not fun to you. It doesn't mean that there's
Speaker 1: anything in particular wrong with either of us. Also, a
Speaker 1: thing we need to remember about friendships is sometimes we
Speaker 1: can pall and go back to it and it's even richer,
Speaker 1: it's better. But we have to allow that space to
Speaker 1: exist for us to figure out what the friendship is
Speaker 1: or what it isn't. So let's start today's call.
Speaker 2: Hi, I've been going through a difficult time with a
Speaker 2: friend and was hoping to gain perspective. Currently there's some
Speaker 2: estrangement and I'm wondering if this is anything worth repairing
Speaker 2: or leaving where it is. I met my friend back
Speaker 2: in twenty nineteen, and during this time of us meeting,
Speaker 2: I was in an unhealthy situationship. Who also is someone
Speaker 2: my friend knows from what I've observed and from what
Speaker 2: has been shared with me, it doesn't seem that this
Speaker 2: is someone she's close with. It all compared to our relationship,
Speaker 2: as she refers to me as her sister. The only
Speaker 2: time that they spent time with one another was if
Speaker 2: I was around. At the top of twenty twenty two,
Speaker 2: I ended the situationship that turned into a romantic relationship. Fortunately,
Speaker 2: my dealings with this person did not end because of
Speaker 2: our unhealthy cycle we continued throughout the years. This relationship
Speaker 2: was a codependent one and he was emotionally unavailable, but
Speaker 2: would continue to string me along and I would follow,
Speaker 2: hoping for change. By December of twenty twenty two, I
Speaker 2: made the decision to end things with my ex. At
Speaker 2: the time, I told them that I thought it was
Speaker 2: best that we went our separate ways and that in
Speaker 2: the future maybe we could be friends, but needed time.
Speaker 2: What prompted me to separate myself from my ex was
Speaker 2: me learning about my own unhealthy contributions to the relationship,
Speaker 2: and while I actually allowed myself to process all that
Speaker 2: happened throughout the years between us, I decided that being
Speaker 2: friends with this person wasn't something that was possible I
Speaker 2: chose not to communicate this to my ex because there's
Speaker 2: been multiple times throughout a relationship that they and I
Speaker 2: have violated boundaries, and I just felt that if I
Speaker 2: attempted to communicate with this person, they would find a
Speaker 2: way to manipulate me emotionally and I would concede to
Speaker 2: being in contact with them, even though I knew it
Speaker 2: wasn't in my best interest. Shortly after that, I reconnec
Speaker 2: did with an old friend and someone who I dated
Speaker 2: in my twenties, and long story short, we are now together.
Speaker 2: I explain all this because my friend that I am
Speaker 2: estranged with has been witnessed to everything that I endured
Speaker 2: with this person throughout the years. This friend also knows
Speaker 2: my current partner. After making the decision to have no
Speaker 2: contact with my ex, I found out that they had
Speaker 2: been attempting to communicate with mutuals in an effort to
Speaker 2: try and find out information regarding me or talk to
Speaker 2: me to them. When I got wind of it, I
Speaker 2: asked all of them, if this person brings me up
Speaker 2: in conversation, please do not divulge any of my business
Speaker 2: to them, nor engage in conversation. This one friend was
Speaker 2: the only person that gave me a long winded response
Speaker 2: as to why they wouldn't do anything like that instead
Speaker 2: of simply saying that they understood. Fast forward and my
Speaker 2: ex indeed reached out to her and brought me up
Speaker 2: which she told me about. From that conversation, I revealed
Speaker 2: other reasons why I chose no contact with my ex
Speaker 2: and why I didn't want to be friends with them.
Speaker 2: I also was clear in stating that I was okay
Speaker 2: that they continued their relationship with each other, but that
Speaker 2: I I did not want to be included or hear
Speaker 2: anything about this person unless it was something being said
Speaker 2: about me. I now realized that I needed to know
Speaker 2: nothing of what was being said about me by my ex,
Speaker 2: But at the time I knew that he is a notion.
Speaker 2: It sometimes turned stories to make him appear to be
Speaker 2: a victim in scenarios, and I didn't want him lying
Speaker 2: on me to my friends.
Speaker 1: Woo. I hear so many things here. The first thing
Speaker 1: that sticks out to me is this idea of ghosting.
Speaker 1: This is a tough topic because for people who have
Speaker 1: been ghosted, which I'm a person who's been ghosted, you
Speaker 1: know many of us have been ghosted. It is tough
Speaker 1: to be on the receiving end for the person who
Speaker 1: is doing the ghosting. I've been the person who's done
Speaker 1: the ghosting, which is a tough position to be in
Speaker 1: as well. One thing I want us to remember as
Speaker 1: we are wandering why won't they just talk to me?
Speaker 1: We have to think about how they've already tried to
Speaker 1: talk to us, how we might not be the easiest
Speaker 1: person to talk to. And that's what I'm hearing in
Speaker 1: this letter. That you're choosing to communicate with your ex
Speaker 1: in a certain way because you don't want them to
Speaker 1: emotionally manipulate you, because you don't feel strong enough yet
Speaker 1: to resist it. That's really big, and I want us
Speaker 1: to have some grace with ourselves and grace with others
Speaker 1: around the fear of going back to bad situations and
Speaker 1: the need to stay away from them by cutting off communication.
Speaker 1: That if I talk to you, you're gonna do what
Speaker 1: you do, You're going to use your magic, You're gonna
Speaker 1: pull me right back in, and then I'm gonna be
Speaker 1: in this cycle of relationship drama. I don't want that,
Speaker 1: so I am choosing not to communicate that ghosting when
Speaker 1: you're aware, is it ghosting when someone knows what the
Speaker 1: reason is, I don't think so, you know, for people
Speaker 1: who like to live in the victimhood of I don't
Speaker 1: know why they're not talking to me, they typically have
Speaker 1: some reason why that they don't want to address, or
Speaker 1: they may be thinking that reason is really not big
Speaker 1: enough to not talk to me. So I know your reason,
Speaker 1: but I do not accept it. And so your ex
Speaker 1: continuously trying to talk to your friend and figure out,
Speaker 1: you know, what's going on with you, what's going on
Speaker 1: with the situation. It is a way to exert some
Speaker 1: control even when you're no longer in that relationship with them.
Speaker 1: So in some way they're still manipulating. And the good
Speaker 1: thing here is you recognize it. One thing about communication.
Speaker 1: When we say something, let's not police ourselves or others
Speaker 1: about the medium in which it's spoken. Sometimes people are, oh,
Speaker 1: you should say it verbally. You can't text that. You know,
Speaker 1: we live in a society where people are getting hired
Speaker 1: by email, fired by email, video chatted for this. Whatever
Speaker 1: way you feel comfortable speaking to someone or not speaking
Speaker 1: to them, I think it's communication. If it's available for
Speaker 1: you to communicate, you can communicate that way. So that
Speaker 1: manipulation piece that really stuck out to me in the
Speaker 1: acknowledgment that I do not have the mental strength to
Speaker 1: speak to this person and that's why I'm not doing it.
Speaker 1: Please respect that I'm hearing you be very clear with
Speaker 1: your friend around your boundaries of hearing certain communication about
Speaker 1: your ex. You're not saying, hey, you can't even have
Speaker 1: relationship with my ex. You're saying, hey, if you have
Speaker 1: this relationship, I prefer not to hear about it. Please
Speaker 1: don't say anything to me. I'm wondering here. We know
Speaker 1: that the ex is manipulating, but could it be that
Speaker 1: the ex is manipulating your friend into thinking that these
Speaker 1: conversations are needed. Could it be that your friend is
Speaker 1: actually manipulating you to get back into this relationship with
Speaker 1: your ex for their own benefit. I don't know, but
Speaker 1: manipulation can be really strong, and so if we've been
Speaker 1: manipulated by a person, chances are they're manipulating other people
Speaker 1: in this relationship system. So when a person is able
Speaker 1: to go to these other people and say, oh, my gosh,
Speaker 1: can you believe so and so did this to me,
Speaker 1: and the other people are like, oh, I can't believe
Speaker 1: they did that to you. But they know you, they
Speaker 1: know your kind, and they're shocked. They are all so
Speaker 1: in this cycle of manipulation. So yes, you place the boundary,
Speaker 1: but it doesn't mean that this person understands the situation
Speaker 1: as deeply as you do. The relationship is different. You
Speaker 1: have romantic interactions with this person, they do not. They're
Speaker 1: stepping in in the friendship space, so that might be
Speaker 1: different for them. After our break, we will get back
Speaker 1: to the caller's letter and let's listen.
Speaker 2: This was a long backstory, but I felt it was
Speaker 2: necessary because after I expressed plainly that I didn't want
Speaker 2: to hear about my ex from my friend, she continued
Speaker 2: to bring them up to me in conversation more than
Speaker 2: once to when arbe did I didn't want to know
Speaker 2: about anything going on with him. Recently, I've been experiencing
Speaker 2: an unknown illness which I hadn't shared with anyone because
Speaker 2: I wasn't ready to talk about it, and that led
Speaker 2: me to the er. A week before I was to
Speaker 2: see my friend and her now husband, I was asked
Speaker 2: to be a part of their union and also document
Speaker 2: it for them. However, my health did not allow me
Speaker 2: to be present. After my visit to the emergency room.
Speaker 2: I informed her that I wouldn't be able to make
Speaker 2: it due to my doctor only being available at the
Speaker 2: same time I was supposed to be present for the festivities.
Speaker 2: After being sent the information for the events to take
Speaker 2: place that weekend, I responded with my regrets of not
Speaker 2: being there, to which I was told that she was
Speaker 2: thinking of inviting my ex in my absence. At first,
Speaker 2: I was in shock because again my ex has been
Speaker 2: known to have tried to pinch information about me, and
Speaker 2: now that I'm not present to something I would naturally
Speaker 2: be there for, they would invite him into information that
Speaker 2: isn't any of his business, whether stated or not. I
Speaker 2: expressed to my friend that I was not sure what
Speaker 2: to do with this information, as before I had mentioned
Speaker 2: that I didn't want my ex brought up to me.
Speaker 2: Her response was to do nothing but receive the information,
Speaker 2: to which I expressed that while I appreciate her communicating
Speaker 2: with me about her choices, I just was not interested
Speaker 2: in hearing anything whatsoever about this person. I informed her
Speaker 2: that I wanted to be left out of the friendship
Speaker 2: and that if she wanted to be friends with this person,
Speaker 2: it was her business and none of mine. I did
Speaker 2: not respond emotionally or reactive. However, I was direct because
Speaker 2: I wanted to be clear. Looking back, though, I was
Speaker 2: hurt and realized that I actually did have issues with
Speaker 2: their friendship, but did not communicate this as this was
Speaker 2: something I fully realized after sitting with what she said
Speaker 2: to me through this time. Because I wasn't there physically,
Speaker 2: I sent flowers to them. I didn't write my name
Speaker 2: on them. I blame my medicated brain, but I also
Speaker 2: felt that like the message on the card made it
Speaker 2: clear that they were for me, and also their ceremony
Speaker 2: was not something known to many people. I was met
Speaker 2: with the silent treatment. Weeks went by and I heard
Speaker 2: nothing from my friends, not even to check on me
Speaker 2: to see how my health was. This is unusual behavior,
Speaker 2: because even with the many things that we have going
Speaker 2: on in our individual lives, she and I still keep
Speaker 2: in contact with each other, if only it is us
Speaker 2: sending pictures to one another.
Speaker 1: Listening to this reminds me of a situation that I
Speaker 1: had years ago where I ended a relationship with a
Speaker 1: friend and I had a family member who would try
Speaker 1: to update me on this person. Now, I wasn't on Facebook,
Speaker 1: but they would say, did you see this on Facebook
Speaker 1: about them? Did you see Well, you know I'm not
Speaker 1: on Facebook, so you know I didn't see those things,
Speaker 1: and so I clearly said please stop bringing them up
Speaker 1: to me. And then the accusation was, you're really mad
Speaker 1: at them, you don't want to hear about them. Well,
Speaker 1: this person is no longer a part of my life,
Speaker 1: and there is no other space where I would be
Speaker 1: constantly reminded of this person. I'm not on Facebook, I'm
Speaker 1: not following them or seeing them out, so to have
Speaker 1: these reminders it can almost be bringing the situation that
Speaker 1: happened in the relationship back up constantly. Right, are you
Speaker 1: in disagreement with me wanting something healthier for myself? I
Speaker 1: wonder if people have a different perception of what the
Speaker 1: situation is or how it should have ended, and that's
Speaker 1: why they're bringing this stuff up, because they're like, wait,
Speaker 1: did you make the right choice? Well, here's the thing.
Speaker 1: It may not have been the right choice for them,
Speaker 1: but it is the right choice for you. So you
Speaker 1: have the autonomy to say, I no longer want to
Speaker 1: be in this relationship with this person, please stop bringing
Speaker 1: them up. And you restated what you wanted please stop
Speaker 1: bringing this person up. And it's true. You know, maybe
Speaker 1: you say, hey, I don't care if you all have
Speaker 1: a friendship, it's really not a big deal, and then
Speaker 1: maybe you think about it and you're like, actually, I
Speaker 1: do care. Here's the thing. You could care and still
Speaker 1: do nothing about it. Right, They can still have their friendship,
Speaker 1: but you should not be a part of their friendship.
Speaker 1: Your name should not be brought up. There are so
Speaker 1: many things that people can talk about outside of the
Speaker 1: relationship they have with you, or you at all, their
Speaker 1: only connection is you. Do they really have a connection
Speaker 1: if they have to constantly bring you up as a thing.
Speaker 1: I wonder if you're still really lingering in the relationship
Speaker 1: for them. And I know that's a part of it
Speaker 1: that you can't control, but perhaps there is some conversation
Speaker 1: that could be had around that, like what is your
Speaker 1: connection to this person? Because if you have to bring
Speaker 1: me up, if you have to pull me into the
Speaker 1: mix of this, the relationship that you have with them
Speaker 1: is not independent of me. And it sounds like we
Speaker 1: need to be a group in order for you to
Speaker 1: have a relationship, and I am out the group. So
Speaker 1: do you even have a relationship with this person or
Speaker 1: is it just you know, this three person party that
Speaker 1: we always have to have. I am no longer in
Speaker 1: that group. I hear you saying it, I hear you
Speaker 1: responding behaviorally to it. And you can't control if they
Speaker 1: have that relationship, but you can certainly be upset about it.
Speaker 1: I'm in it. It does hurt when you end a
Speaker 1: relationship with one person and people choose to stand the
Speaker 1: relationship with them. I think that happens sometimes when we
Speaker 1: terminate romantic relationships, when we get a divorce, when we
Speaker 1: end friendships, when we're in friend groups. That is also
Speaker 1: what makes it really hard to leave those things, because
Speaker 1: you know the other people have this relationship, but in
Speaker 1: a healthy way, they can continue those relationships without you
Speaker 1: being a part of it. There are many things that
Speaker 1: they may have in common and may enjoy that have
Speaker 1: nothing to do with you. We're going to keep listening.
Speaker 1: After our next break.
Speaker 2: After not hearing from her for three weeks, I sent
Speaker 2: a message asking if they had gotten the flowers I sent,
Speaker 2: to which I received a long response in short saying
Speaker 2: yes that they were received, that she was sorry for
Speaker 2: not responding to my message because she felt my energy
Speaker 2: in what I said, and that she didn't want to
Speaker 2: respond emotionally. I responded by stating that maybe we can
Speaker 2: hop on a call one of these days and talk.
Speaker 2: Based on how she responded with my last message via text,
Speaker 2: speaking verbally seemed best. We haven't spoken over the phone yet.
Speaker 2: I've had some changes in my health and also experienced
Speaker 2: some deaths. Additionally, I am hurt that I'm seemingly the
Speaker 2: only one in the dynamic willing to initiate dialogue, and
Speaker 2: all the while, she hasn't checked on me at all
Speaker 2: since I told her about my health. After mentioning talking
Speaker 2: on the phone, she sent me photos from their wedding
Speaker 2: that my ex took, which felt like even a further
Speaker 2: slap in the face. I'm not exactly sure how are
Speaker 2: im supposed to move forward As she's reached out to
Speaker 2: talk to me about her child. I'm the godmother and
Speaker 2: he was sick, and to me it felt emotionally manipulative
Speaker 2: because she knows how I feel about children. I'm not
Speaker 2: sure if what I explained makes sense, but I would
Speaker 2: like some insight. Thank you.
Speaker 1: I'm thinking of all the ways you can honor your
Speaker 1: own boundary without involving them or having them to do
Speaker 1: the hard work. So if someone is sending you pictures
Speaker 1: of things that they did with your ex, is it
Speaker 1: possible to not respond and maybe the more you don't respond,
Speaker 1: the less they send the pictures. That's a way. Also,
Speaker 1: whenever they bring up your ex, is it possible to
Speaker 1: maybe change the subject and say, Hey, I said I
Speaker 1: don't want to talk about this person and change the subject.
Speaker 1: That's a way. Is it possible to say, hey, is
Speaker 1: this person going to be at this thing? Okay, well
Speaker 1: I will choose not to come because I don't want
Speaker 1: to be in that space with this person. I think so.
Speaker 1: I think there are many ways to address this because
Speaker 1: it sounds like you want to keep this relationship, and
Speaker 1: if you decide to do this with this person, that
Speaker 1: might be a part of it. They may always bring
Speaker 1: this thing up, so you know the story I told
Speaker 1: you earlier, that person continued to bring it up, and
Speaker 1: I just you know, I'd use some different tactics. I
Speaker 1: would change the subject. I would say, hey, I told
Speaker 1: you don't want to hear about it. I would get
Speaker 1: more assertive with my boundary because it was very clear
Speaker 1: it was restated. But I think when people are pushing back.
Speaker 1: They're saying, I don't respect what you're asking me. I
Speaker 1: don't respect what you say. You can decide, you know,
Speaker 1: if I want to be in this relationship, how do
Speaker 1: I show up with this person exhibiting this behavior of
Speaker 1: ignoring what I'm asking them? Or you could decide, you know,
Speaker 1: this is such a big thing. I don't know if
Speaker 1: I want to be in a relationship with a person
Speaker 1: who does this, that is your choice. I do wonder.
Speaker 1: You know, you met this friend in twenty nineteen, and
Speaker 1: it sounds like it was this pal group, and you
Speaker 1: know things were going well until they weren't. What are
Speaker 1: you trying to recover here with this friend? What sort
Speaker 1: of things are you trying to get from this situation
Speaker 1: with this person? Is this person even your friend type anymore?
Speaker 1: Because sometimes when we have friendships, we're in them for
Speaker 1: so long that we're changing, we're changing, we're changing, and
Speaker 1: next thing you know, this person isn't even your friend
Speaker 1: type anymore. At this stage, at this age, the things
Speaker 1: that you like to do, they are completely different than
Speaker 1: who you were five years ago, or you know, ten
Speaker 1: years ago when you met this person, even four years ago.
Speaker 1: So is this person the type of person if you
Speaker 1: met them today, you would be in a relationship with
Speaker 1: this person all of the things that they're exhibiting if
Speaker 1: you met them today, would this be your friend? Would
Speaker 1: this be a person that you want to be in
Speaker 1: community with, or is this someone that you would have
Speaker 1: some sort of associate level relationship. There are some friendships
Speaker 1: that are not as close as other friendships, and in
Speaker 1: those cases, maybe this is one of those situations where
Speaker 1: the closeness that you used to share it's not necessarily
Speaker 1: there anymore. And this is a relationship that you know,
Speaker 1: you speak on occasion, it may not be what it
Speaker 1: once was. Can it transform? Can it be something different?
Speaker 1: Perhaps you should allow it because right now what I
Speaker 1: see is this resistance and pushing for something that there
Speaker 1: is no room to have in this friendship. If you
Speaker 1: were to accept everything that's being offered, what would look
Speaker 1: different in this friendship? What would look different with how
Speaker 1: you engage with this person? You need to hear this.
Speaker 1: When we are thinking about going back to relationships that
Speaker 1: have had some challenges or repairing relationships, our biggest question
Speaker 1: should be what are we trying to recover? What's there,
Speaker 1: what's less? What can be sometimes we are more hopeful
Speaker 1: than we are realistic. There is nothing there that would
Speaker 1: keep us in this relationship. If we showed up to
Speaker 1: it today, maybe the past situations would draw us back in.
Speaker 1: But if I showed up today as this situation is,
Speaker 1: would I choose this? That's a really important question to
Speaker 1: ask yourself when you're thinking about recovering and repairing some
Speaker 1: of these connections that might need to be accepted as
Speaker 1: they are. You need to hear this is an iHeart
Speaker 1: production hosted by Mendra Glover to wob Our executive producer
Speaker 1: is Joe L. Baldique. Our senior producer and editor is
Speaker 1: Mia don Taylor. Send us a voice memo with your
Speaker 1: questions about boundaries and relationships at You need to hear
Speaker 1: this at iHeartMedia dot com. Please be sure to rate
Speaker 1: our show wherever you listen to it, and share this
Speaker 1: episode with someone who needs to hear this. Talk to
Speaker 1: you next time.