1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Noel. They call 6 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:32,320 Speaker 1: me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer 7 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:37,279 Speaker 1: Alexis code named Doc Holiday Jackson. Most importantly, you are you. 8 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:40,440 Speaker 1: You are here, and that makes this stuff they don't 9 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:42,880 Speaker 1: want you to know. It's the top of the week, 10 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:47,839 Speaker 1: which means we are bringing you some hopefully very strange news. 11 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:49,800 Speaker 1: A little bit of Florida Man, a little bit of 12 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:52,960 Speaker 1: Twilight Zone meets the X Files with a dash of 13 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:55,720 Speaker 1: the Loan Gunman is how you would describe it to 14 00:00:55,800 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 1: a jaded Hollywood producer. So our stories are, uh, we're 15 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 1: a little bit difficult for us to determine in this 16 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:08,399 Speaker 1: week's segment because so very much has happened, you know 17 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:11,559 Speaker 1: what I mean, gone or the days when the news 18 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:15,119 Speaker 1: cycle would dedicate a whole two weeks to something. So 19 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:17,760 Speaker 1: we're going to do our best. Uh, we may have to. 20 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:21,600 Speaker 1: In later episodes, introduce a a segment that I'll pitch 21 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:25,760 Speaker 1: to you guys later, but for now, our journey takes 22 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:28,839 Speaker 1: us to the realm of big tech. Our journey takes 23 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:31,959 Speaker 1: us to the murky world of international finance and to 24 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:35,600 Speaker 1: the reaches of outer space. We talked a little bit 25 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:38,880 Speaker 1: off air, and we decided we would start with space 26 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 1: and then work our way back to earthly things that 27 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:46,000 Speaker 1: sound good to you guys, wonderful all over it? Very well, 28 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 1: then we'll do the honors. It turns out that, in 29 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 1: a move I can only describe as classic human, we 30 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:59,559 Speaker 1: may have just found evidence of life off of Earth 31 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 1: at the same time we're doing our level best to 32 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:08,400 Speaker 1: destroy life on Earth. Yeah, it's a very very human thing. Well, 33 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:11,640 Speaker 1: even if even if we're not even trying, it's still 34 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 1: happening when it comes naturally, you know, we've come honestly 35 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:19,240 Speaker 1: by our destructive powers, and whether through accident or design, 36 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:21,000 Speaker 1: of course, I think I may have mentioned this on 37 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 1: an earlier episode. Uh, within the last fifty years, humans 38 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:32,160 Speaker 1: have destroyed two thirds of animal populations and various biomas 39 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:37,000 Speaker 1: across the planet. Things are looking dire. And it doesn't 40 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:39,919 Speaker 1: matter whether or not you support the World Wildlife Fund. 41 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 1: This is just math. There are no opinions evolved. Uh 42 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 1: this this story takes us to Venus. The news broke 43 00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 1: fairly recently. On September of this year, scientists announced a 44 00:02:55,320 --> 00:03:00,400 Speaker 1: mystery of foot on our planetary neighbor. They just covered 45 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:06,119 Speaker 1: something called phosphene in Venus's atmosphere. They did not importantly 46 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 1: claim that they discovered extraterrestrial life. It would be the 47 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 1: biggest news in the history of human civilization. I you know, 48 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 1: I read the paper. What I like is they spend 49 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 1: uh a large amount of time trying to prove how 50 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:27,880 Speaker 1: it could be anything other than a sign of life. 51 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:31,840 Speaker 1: So phosphine, that's what they found. They found phosphine in 52 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 1: large amounts that are very difficult to explain without microbial 53 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 1: life somehow being the cause. Of course, the news took 54 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:46,520 Speaker 1: this and ran with it, saying life on Venus, I 55 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 1: don't know questions or life on Venus? We found it 56 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:56,200 Speaker 1: right right? Well, like ben isn't Venus one of the 57 00:03:56,200 --> 00:04:00,280 Speaker 1: ones with like the super toxic atmosphere or like as 58 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 1: far as like if you're actually on the surface of 59 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:05,000 Speaker 1: the planet, but then the upper atmosphere is sort of 60 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 1: similar to like Earth's atmosphere, and then the way it's 61 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 1: made up maybe correct me if I'm wrong. There are 62 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:13,440 Speaker 1: some commonalities in the atmosphere, and this plays this plays 63 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:18,280 Speaker 1: a big role in our investigation today. So if we 64 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 1: if phosphene first, let's say, let's let's figure out what 65 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 1: phosphine is. Then let's figure out where it happens, which 66 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:27,279 Speaker 1: are right, it is in the atmosphere, not on the surface, 67 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:30,800 Speaker 1: and then let's figure out what this might mean to 68 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 1: humanity if we make it to the next season of 69 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 1: this insane endeavor that we have set ourselves upon. So, 70 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:44,200 Speaker 1: phosphene is not cool for you. It's it's not something 71 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:48,360 Speaker 1: you naturally want to hang out with. It's colorless, it's explosive, 72 00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 1: it's flammable, and it smells like garlic or decaying fish. 73 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:59,280 Speaker 1: Small amounts of this stuff naturally occur on Earth as 74 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:03,680 Speaker 1: organic matter breaks down. It reminds me a little bit 75 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:07,359 Speaker 1: when I was reading about it of methane, just enough 76 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:10,120 Speaker 1: of some of the properties that it has and as 77 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 1: a byproduct of chemical biological processes. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So 78 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 1: here on Earth, on our little hunk of rock, the 79 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:25,799 Speaker 1: only source of phosphine is microbes. It's it's a gas 80 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 1: often associated in fact with feces. So shout out to 81 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 1: everybody who wrote in or found me on Twitter and 82 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:36,000 Speaker 1: started telling me about the question, who are we farting 83 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:39,480 Speaker 1: inside of? I think it's I think it's a great question. 84 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:42,159 Speaker 1: You need to get books for that one man. I 85 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:44,560 Speaker 1: think that has to be like a hoodie at the 86 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:48,360 Speaker 1: very least, you know, or maybe maybe I see You'll 87 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:51,240 Speaker 1: get to it at some point. We'll see. But the 88 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 1: fascinating thing here is that we have we have a 89 00:05:56,279 --> 00:05:59,920 Speaker 1: mystery up. It's like a cosmic murder and a lot 90 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 1: through We don't know how this phosphing occurs. We can't 91 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:10,960 Speaker 1: immediately assume it indicates life on Venus, but we are 92 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:14,839 Speaker 1: having a very difficult time explaining how so much phosphing 93 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 1: could be created if microbes are not involved. There's there 94 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:23,080 Speaker 1: are a couple of things. There are a couple of 95 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 1: what I'll call the wamp womp calm down points, And 96 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:32,159 Speaker 1: the number one wamp wamp calm down point is that 97 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:36,719 Speaker 1: we don't know a ton about the geochemistry of Venus. 98 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:41,560 Speaker 1: It's our nearest planetary neighbor, but we rarely visit it 99 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:46,599 Speaker 1: because it's not a neighborhood for humans. It's it's a 100 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:49,479 Speaker 1: weird street for us to walk down. Yeah. One of 101 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:52,720 Speaker 1: the major things is that the average temperature on Venus, 102 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 1: right that could could pose a bit of an issue 103 00:06:56,160 --> 00:07:00,279 Speaker 1: for humanity. Uh, we're you know, right now, it's a 104 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:04,600 Speaker 1: little chillier than it has been for a while in Atlanta. 105 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 1: I think it was fifty five fifty six degrees this morning. 106 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:13,880 Speaker 1: That's a fahrenheit of course, you know. Uh, on Venus, 107 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:17,680 Speaker 1: the surface temperature there's gonna be around oh, I don't know, 108 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 1: eight hundred degrees fahrenheit. And it's the atmosphere is the 109 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:28,880 Speaker 1: densest of what are called the four terrestrial planets, so 110 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:31,680 Speaker 1: not like not a gas giant like Jupiter or something. 111 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 1: If you make it down to the surface of Venus, 112 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:40,000 Speaker 1: you're going to be in an environment with about ninety 113 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 1: two times the sea level pressure of Earth. So it's 114 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 1: it's not a place where we can easily survive. It's surrounded. 115 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:51,280 Speaker 1: It looks like a gas giant if you look at it, 116 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:55,679 Speaker 1: because it's surrounded by such a soupy atmosphere. And there's 117 00:07:55,720 --> 00:08:01,000 Speaker 1: this an interesting genre of planetary exploration. An astronomy here 118 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:04,440 Speaker 1: has a lot in common with forensic science. We are 119 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 1: trying to reconstruct through thought experiment and through various observational 120 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:15,600 Speaker 1: tools what these planets may have looked like in the past. Right, 121 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 1: Like liquid water was discovered on Mars, there's a pretty 122 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:23,120 Speaker 1: convincing argument that once it flowed much more freely. The 123 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 1: argument in regards to Venus is that once upon a time, 124 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:32,760 Speaker 1: Venus itself may have had some sort of water that 125 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:36,680 Speaker 1: was later swept into inner planetary space. But anyway, the 126 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 1: big wamp wamp point is that we don't know enough 127 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 1: about Venus to say that there's no way phosphen could 128 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:47,280 Speaker 1: exist without some form of what we recognize as life. 129 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:53,840 Speaker 1: The second womp wap point here is that we don't 130 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:58,040 Speaker 1: really know what we would do next if if we 131 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 1: found that fosse Like if again, it's classic human that 132 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:07,320 Speaker 1: we discover a new life form through its poop. But uh, 133 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 1: but we don't know what we would do necessarily if 134 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:14,680 Speaker 1: we found it, Because think about this, one of the 135 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:17,160 Speaker 1: last things you would want to do is to introduce 136 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:22,120 Speaker 1: some new life form like this two Earth life forms. 137 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 1: We we have know what we've seen the dystopian sci fi. 138 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:29,000 Speaker 1: We've all seen outbreak right, Uh, this could be this 139 00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 1: could be the very last plot twist of the twenties. Well, 140 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:36,000 Speaker 1: it's sort of like the equivalent of people are like 141 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:39,800 Speaker 1: an invasive species from another country, like and let it out, 142 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 1: you know, like starlings for example. That was a horrible 143 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:45,600 Speaker 1: misstep by that one guy that really thought starlings were 144 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:49,920 Speaker 1: beautiful and he essentially overpopulated Central Park with them and 145 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:51,880 Speaker 1: then it became like a real problem. But this would 146 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:55,600 Speaker 1: be like that on like a cosmic level, right, Yeah, 147 00:09:55,640 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 1: I think that's a good comparison. Uh, it's strange because 148 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:04,240 Speaker 1: is you know, it's the holy grail. It's like a 149 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 1: secular holy grail, the idea of finding life, and it's 150 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 1: tremendously difficult for us to be as a species as 151 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:16,440 Speaker 1: objective as possible. There have been so many near misses. 152 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:20,679 Speaker 1: There have been so many close calls. I mean, experts 153 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:25,800 Speaker 1: are still debating about the Viking lander experience in n 154 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:30,160 Speaker 1: and saying, well, maybe they did discover some evidence of 155 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 1: once upon a time life on Mars. At this point, 156 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:39,800 Speaker 1: there is a lot of science to do. This is Uh, 157 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:43,240 Speaker 1: this is one of the most important questions in the 158 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:46,760 Speaker 1: big game of the human species, and it will probably 159 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 1: be so for a while because it's expensive. It's expensive 160 00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:54,240 Speaker 1: to figure out what the hell is going on in Venus? 161 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:57,679 Speaker 1: I thought you would like this though, guys, I wanted 162 00:10:57,720 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 1: to save this before we move on, so you know, Uh, 163 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:06,560 Speaker 1: there's a plot twist already. Dmitri rogoes In, who is 164 00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:11,280 Speaker 1: the director General of Rolls COLSMOS, the Russian Space agency 165 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:16,600 Speaker 1: like Russia's NASA, he recently came out after this announcement, 166 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:21,720 Speaker 1: by the way, and declared that Venus is officially a 167 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:27,319 Speaker 1: Russian planet. And uh, it's because Russia or the USSR 168 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:31,959 Speaker 1: was the first and only nation to date to successfully 169 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:35,240 Speaker 1: land anything on Venus. They went through the atmosphere, they 170 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:40,520 Speaker 1: went to that brutal surface of the planet there. Technology 171 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:43,120 Speaker 1: did not last long. But they're taking that as a win. 172 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:46,200 Speaker 1: So wait, does that mean we own the moon? Then? 173 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:49,040 Speaker 1: Is that how it works? We planted a flag there, baby, 174 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:55,199 Speaker 1: But the treaties against that kind of thing, right, I 175 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:57,080 Speaker 1: saw that. I saw an article about that too, and 176 00:11:57,120 --> 00:12:00,880 Speaker 1: actually on Fox News. Um where it interesting. Um, this 177 00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:02,559 Speaker 1: is the first time I've seen this, and you guys 178 00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:05,800 Speaker 1: may be aware of this moniker for Venus. It's it's 179 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:09,840 Speaker 1: sometimes referred to as Earth's evil twin um, which which 180 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:12,959 Speaker 1: makes the idea of life on Venus even more interesting? 181 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:16,679 Speaker 1: What if it's like bizarro Earth, where like everyone there 182 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:20,280 Speaker 1: is like a weird evil mirror image of of of 183 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:22,880 Speaker 1: Earth links. I don't know, I'm just I'm just getting 184 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:26,160 Speaker 1: sci fi with it. Why not? Um? Really interesting though? 185 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:28,160 Speaker 1: What an odd flex, though, Ben, I see your point, Like, 186 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:30,080 Speaker 1: do you think it was literally in response to, oh, 187 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:32,400 Speaker 1: oh well, better go ahead and stake our claim since 188 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:34,840 Speaker 1: there might be life, let's let's go ahead and bring 189 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:37,320 Speaker 1: this up and get the debate started. I don't know, 190 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:41,880 Speaker 1: it's a odd Of all the superpowers that existed in 191 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:46,079 Speaker 1: the time of early exploration, USSR was the one sending, 192 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:50,040 Speaker 1: as you said, Ben, metal and money towards Venus to 193 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:52,880 Speaker 1: try and get some kind of data from the planet. 194 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:55,679 Speaker 1: And and has been said, all the stuff that they 195 00:12:55,679 --> 00:12:58,640 Speaker 1: did send there ended up melting and getting crushed almost immediately. 196 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:05,000 Speaker 1: Like if you sent down a standard metal container and 197 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:07,240 Speaker 1: you know, down in the ocean three thousand feet, the 198 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 1: thing just would crush at some point. That's what happened 199 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:13,680 Speaker 1: to all of their money and efforts. But they did 200 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:16,640 Speaker 1: get a few images back or a few bits of 201 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:19,680 Speaker 1: data back with one of them that were very very important. 202 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:23,600 Speaker 1: You know, It's interesting to think that Japan right now 203 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:29,960 Speaker 1: has the only functioning observation status of Venus with with 204 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:32,080 Speaker 1: I forget the name of it, but it's got a 205 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:36,160 Speaker 1: satellite that's going around it right now. Right here's the 206 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:39,640 Speaker 1: time where we finally get to say it coincidence and 207 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:43,280 Speaker 1: getting yeah, it probably is coincidence, but it may not be. 208 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:46,000 Speaker 1: The The last new I'll leave us with here is 209 00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:51,120 Speaker 1: that this may not be the only satellite exploring the 210 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:54,200 Speaker 1: I mean, certainly it won't be if we get enough, 211 00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 1: if we stay alive long enough to send more stuff. 212 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 1: There's one interesting paper that came out on our vix 213 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:07,720 Speaker 1: dot org earlier and it proposes what you could think 214 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:12,920 Speaker 1: of as a daredevil mission, something called the Calypso Venus Scout, 215 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:16,720 Speaker 1: and the idea is to um to use a balloon 216 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:21,479 Speaker 1: in Venus atmosphere and a layer of Venus is atmosphere 217 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:25,520 Speaker 1: is probably it's if we add humans there, it would 218 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 1: be the most likely place for us to make our 219 00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:32,320 Speaker 1: own kind of sky city or landing base. The Calypso 220 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:36,040 Speaker 1: Scout is just a proposal at this time, but it's 221 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:39,520 Speaker 1: quite an intriguing one. The ideas that it would hang 222 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:44,160 Speaker 1: twenty miles below or thirty two kilometers for the rest 223 00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:48,600 Speaker 1: of the world below this balloon floating in the clouds, 224 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:54,360 Speaker 1: and it would be able to provide revelatory information such 225 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 1: that if we could get this thing onto Venus, then 226 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:04,600 Speaker 1: we would probably be able to answer, uh, like definitively 227 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:08,320 Speaker 1: answer whether or not there was or is something that 228 00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:14,360 Speaker 1: we would consider life. Notice at conspiracy realists, I've been 229 00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 1: what I've been talking about this, I've been saying something 230 00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:21,400 Speaker 1: we consider life. We have a sample size of what 231 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:26,840 Speaker 1: right story behind the naming of like all the planets. 232 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 1: I know they're all named after like you know, Greek 233 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:32,280 Speaker 1: gods and Roman gods. But I will say, based on 234 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:36,760 Speaker 1: the description of Venus Um and the weird love triangle 235 00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:42,680 Speaker 1: that existed between Venus uh Mars and Venus husband vulcan Um, 236 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:45,160 Speaker 1: who was like the god of metal working, I think 237 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:47,120 Speaker 1: they kind of got it wrong. I think they should 238 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:51,160 Speaker 1: have named Venus vulcan and then uh named some other 239 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:53,680 Speaker 1: planet Venus. That's just my opinion, because it's all these 240 00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:57,120 Speaker 1: volcanoes there, the temperature, you know, scientists have described it 241 00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:00,480 Speaker 1: like hell. You know, um Mars isn't like that, and 242 00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 1: it's just red and o Mars has got a war, 243 00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:04,720 Speaker 1: but I don't I don't know why Vulcan got left 244 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 1: out of the mix. Vulcan such a cool, fiery god. 245 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:09,960 Speaker 1: I don't know. What do you guys think it didn't 246 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:15,800 Speaker 1: get left out? It was an entire species, is that correct? 247 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:21,400 Speaker 1: Or entire civilization on Star Star Trek there is a 248 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:25,200 Speaker 1: planet Vulcan. You're right, there's that's exactly right. Yeah, I 249 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:26,400 Speaker 1: think we need to. I don't know. I think we 250 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:29,440 Speaker 1: need to. Who do we write to about renaming Venus? 251 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 1: The time is nigh well human we have to remember 252 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:37,680 Speaker 1: human names for things. While they may seem permanent now 253 00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 1: whatever now is, they're very much ephemeral, right, because Venus 254 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:47,640 Speaker 1: is visible without without technology. You can see it with 255 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:52,160 Speaker 1: your unaided eyes if you are patient and avoid light pollution. 256 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:57,520 Speaker 1: Venus is mentioned in one of the oldest surviving astronomical documents, 257 00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:03,560 Speaker 1: in Civilization People Babylon. We're talking about it before the 258 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:08,040 Speaker 1: idea of this Greco Roman mythology even entered the fray. 259 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:13,360 Speaker 1: So I would say you could write to someone who 260 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:17,200 Speaker 1: could also just wait and see what what the next 261 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:23,159 Speaker 1: with the next iteration of humanity names these various planets, 262 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:26,560 Speaker 1: because honestly, you know, I feel like we should stick 263 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 1: with Uranus. I think it's funny. Uh, and I don't 264 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:32,280 Speaker 1: think we should rename all the planets, especially the good 265 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:36,720 Speaker 1: punworthy ones give or take Jupiter. Completely agree, then it's 266 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:40,600 Speaker 1: urin this guys, come on, grow um, that's still that's 267 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 1: still funny too. Sounds like PEP, so it's actually worse 268 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:52,120 Speaker 1: pp and butts. Well, let's be you know what. Let's 269 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:55,520 Speaker 1: let's remember the human race is a team sport, so 270 00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:59,240 Speaker 1: maybe when we're renaming planets we can call that other one. 271 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:04,960 Speaker 1: Oury is moving on. We have we have some more 272 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:08,280 Speaker 1: strange news for you after a word from our sponsor, 273 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:18,560 Speaker 1: and we're back, not just from the ad break, but 274 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:22,000 Speaker 1: from space. You see a lot of things are happening 275 00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:26,200 Speaker 1: on Earth as well. Yeah, sort of a blip in 276 00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:29,280 Speaker 1: the timeline of all things. But yeah, here we find 277 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:32,480 Speaker 1: ourselves in a pretty interesting section of the blip. Um. 278 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:35,320 Speaker 1: Let me ask you guys, have either of you yet 279 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:40,840 Speaker 1: seen the new Netflix documentary The Social Dilemma. Yes, yeah, 280 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:44,359 Speaker 1: I'm not a fan of the dramatizations. Yeah they're a 281 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:47,560 Speaker 1: little cringeing, but I enjoyed it. Enjoyed is maybe a 282 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:50,240 Speaker 1: weird word for it. Despite those UM, and I do 283 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:52,720 Speaker 1: recommend that everyone check. I actually watched it with my daughter, 284 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:55,919 Speaker 1: who isn't that bad of a social media junkie. She 285 00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:58,720 Speaker 1: mainly messes with the TikTok and UM maybe story of 286 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:02,360 Speaker 1: another day, but she was thrilled when UH the company 287 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:05,920 Speaker 1: Byte Dance made a deal with um Oracle. UH, so 288 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:08,800 Speaker 1: TikTok is no longer canceled. There was a brief window 289 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:11,280 Speaker 1: where it was like, Okay, TikTok's done. You can keep 290 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:13,159 Speaker 1: it on your phone, but it's gonna get slower and 291 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:15,639 Speaker 1: slower and slower as you can't get the updates and 292 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:18,000 Speaker 1: all that. We're not talking about TikTok today. We're talking 293 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:20,439 Speaker 1: about Facebook, which is a big part of of this 294 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:24,120 Speaker 1: UH movie, The Social Dilemma. It's all about how these 295 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:28,520 Speaker 1: designers use psychology to game our brains and our brain 296 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:33,080 Speaker 1: chemistry into you know, craving that device or craving that 297 00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:36,680 Speaker 1: feedback that dopamine hit. They literally design it using these 298 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:39,480 Speaker 1: concepts that the same kind of concepts that the casino 299 00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:41,800 Speaker 1: would use to make sure you keep pulling that lever, 300 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:44,320 Speaker 1: you know, like even like when you refresh your page, 301 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:47,560 Speaker 1: you're swiping downward right and you're hoping that you're gonna 302 00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 1: get a little treat. Maybe if you do it enough, 303 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:51,960 Speaker 1: something'll change and you'll be, you know, giving a little 304 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:55,320 Speaker 1: tasty morsel or be like with the casino. You know, 305 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:58,120 Speaker 1: one arm bandit maybe you'll get like a jackpot. It's 306 00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:00,280 Speaker 1: all about like the thing that might come, and it 307 00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:02,199 Speaker 1: keeps you on the hook. But another thing that the 308 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:04,960 Speaker 1: film talks about and that we've talked about plenty on 309 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:10,000 Speaker 1: the show is just how much division is sewed with 310 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:14,760 Speaker 1: the way something like Facebook uses its algorithms to essentially 311 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:18,080 Speaker 1: create this echo chamber where it's serving up information to 312 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:20,800 Speaker 1: each side of a of a big issue. Let's say 313 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:24,159 Speaker 1: Republican and Democrat, each of us. If I'm a Republican 314 00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:27,199 Speaker 1: and then my mother or a friend or colleague as 315 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:30,879 Speaker 1: a Democrat, we're getting different stuff on our Facebook feeds, 316 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:32,919 Speaker 1: and nine times out up ten, we're getting served stuff 317 00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:35,640 Speaker 1: that's feeding our own confirmation bias and making us feel 318 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:38,200 Speaker 1: good about ourselves so that we stay on the service 319 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:41,040 Speaker 1: longer and longer and longer, so they can collect AD 320 00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:43,200 Speaker 1: dollars and learn more data about us as we feed 321 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:47,280 Speaker 1: in more clicks into the system. Um Another thing the 322 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:50,679 Speaker 1: film talks about is the way this can be used 323 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:54,400 Speaker 1: to literally so division to the point where it actually 324 00:20:54,400 --> 00:21:00,440 Speaker 1: becomes manipulation of things like governments of elections. We new 325 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:02,360 Speaker 1: found out about all of that in ways that can 326 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:04,920 Speaker 1: be used for good, with things like the Arab Spring 327 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:09,040 Speaker 1: uprising and using Twitter to literally proliferate real information about 328 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:11,360 Speaker 1: things going on the ground. Great, that's a great example 329 00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:13,960 Speaker 1: of this stuff working for good. But then we've also 330 00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:19,040 Speaker 1: got examples of Russian bots gaming fake news articles and 331 00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:22,560 Speaker 1: targeting people using that algorithm who maybe we're already on 332 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:25,920 Speaker 1: the fence and distrustful of a certain party, um and 333 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:30,119 Speaker 1: used that technology to not hack. This is not people 334 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:33,960 Speaker 1: hacking Facebook. This is people using tools that exist in 335 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:38,280 Speaker 1: Facebook for a purpose to to essentially convert people's hearts 336 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:41,639 Speaker 1: and minds. Um. And it just came out through another 337 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:44,640 Speaker 1: disgruntled Facebook employee. We talked about another one recently when 338 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:49,920 Speaker 1: it came to Facebook policing fake news and U Republican bias, etcetera. 339 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:53,480 Speaker 1: Are right wing bias, etcetera. This one comes from a 340 00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 1: data scientist who was fired very recently, and before she 341 00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:00,439 Speaker 1: was fired, released a sixty six hundred word memo that 342 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:05,720 Speaker 1: talked about how Facebook has blatantly ignored political manipulation from 343 00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:08,840 Speaker 1: around the world. Uh, not just in the United States, 344 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:12,720 Speaker 1: but in places like Brazil where like Bostonaro was elected 345 00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:16,320 Speaker 1: um in in in what many have blamed on this 346 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:20,160 Speaker 1: very same kind of division that sewed Uh using Facebook, 347 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:22,879 Speaker 1: because in Brazil, when people get a computer or they 348 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:25,639 Speaker 1: get a new phone, like Facebook is the Internet, that 349 00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:27,880 Speaker 1: is the Internet to Fox in Brazil for the most part, 350 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:30,680 Speaker 1: that's how they conduct their business online. So this young 351 00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:36,320 Speaker 1: woman her name UM is Sophie zang Uh went through 352 00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:41,520 Speaker 1: and um outlined her grievances about how they know about 353 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:45,000 Speaker 1: this stuff that's going on, but they don't typically do 354 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:47,600 Speaker 1: anything about it, or when people do raise the red flag, 355 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:50,320 Speaker 1: they're shut down, and that was largely why she claims 356 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:53,720 Speaker 1: she was fired. Gentlemen, Uh, what do you think about this? 357 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:56,119 Speaker 1: This is something that we've talked about already, but it 358 00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:57,919 Speaker 1: just seems like more and more of this information is 359 00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:00,480 Speaker 1: coming out that Facebook isn't really doing their dude diligence 360 00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:02,840 Speaker 1: and trying to shut this stuff down, and we're seeing 361 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:06,720 Speaker 1: these ramifications really affecting our lives and politics and big, 362 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:10,119 Speaker 1: big things, not just sharing cat pictures I'm reading an 363 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:13,480 Speaker 1: article here from The Verge that's talking about this issue, 364 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:17,280 Speaker 1: and there there are a couple of quotes in there 365 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:23,280 Speaker 1: from uh, Sophie, the person who was the whistleblower essentially 366 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:27,960 Speaker 1: on this and you know, there are several different things 367 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:30,360 Speaker 1: in here that you've already expressed, No, but one thing 368 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:33,240 Speaker 1: that Sophie yourself was expressing is that there are not 369 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:37,720 Speaker 1: enough human beings who specialize in this stuff working at 370 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:41,600 Speaker 1: Facebook to actually enforce the company's rules or to even 371 00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:45,680 Speaker 1: take action against people who are, you know, doing these 372 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:51,960 Speaker 1: kinds of manipulation pieces or political propaganda or whatever you 373 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:57,040 Speaker 1: want to call it, or whatever however it manifests itself. Um. 374 00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:01,040 Speaker 1: I mean that's one major issue, the just the skeleton 375 00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:04,040 Speaker 1: crew nature of like people actually whose job it is 376 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:08,560 Speaker 1: to target these kind of activities. Well, because how could 377 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:13,280 Speaker 1: you run something like Facebook with so many millions of 378 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:18,719 Speaker 1: users and police without largely making it automated. I mean, 379 00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:21,920 Speaker 1: it would be impossible, I think, and I believe that's 380 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:25,439 Speaker 1: what they have found over years and years. And you know, 381 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:29,200 Speaker 1: in order to make decisions about what is propaganda versus 382 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:32,920 Speaker 1: what is a genuine political ad or you know that 383 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:35,960 Speaker 1: that is a ben I look to your expertise a 384 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:38,359 Speaker 1: little bit on this, just because it feels like the 385 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:41,160 Speaker 1: gray area that exists within anything that could be considered 386 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:44,320 Speaker 1: political is going to be very difficult for an algorithm 387 00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:49,560 Speaker 1: to decide if it is uh, fact based or manipulated, 388 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:52,800 Speaker 1: you know, being manipulative in some way, because at the 389 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:54,920 Speaker 1: very heart of anything that's gonna be put out in 390 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:59,040 Speaker 1: that way is going to be purposefully manipulative, whether it's 391 00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:04,760 Speaker 1: to get your emotional response to you know, uh, confirm 392 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:07,399 Speaker 1: your biases and all those things, but that all of 393 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:10,680 Speaker 1: that content is doing most of it is doing that 394 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:13,159 Speaker 1: in some way. The way the algorithm works is to 395 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:16,320 Speaker 1: manipulate us into staying on the service longer. So how 396 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:18,879 Speaker 1: can they even flag oh, this is being manipulate? Of 397 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:21,920 Speaker 1: course it is. It's all being manipulative. Maybe maybe I'm 398 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:24,680 Speaker 1: misreading what you're saying. Ben, I really want to hear 399 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:29,520 Speaker 1: your kind of bigger picture political you know, Pandora's box 400 00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:33,080 Speaker 1: of like how this really figures into like international affairs 401 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:36,640 Speaker 1: and this this as a tool of manipulation, and whose 402 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:42,080 Speaker 1: responsibility is it to to shut it down? Yeah? So, um, 403 00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:45,480 Speaker 1: I get I've got like four points. Uh so the 404 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:48,960 Speaker 1: uh the first, I think you did a pretty solid 405 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:55,199 Speaker 1: job referencing the dopamine science uh in that that has 406 00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:57,840 Speaker 1: explored in the Social Dilemma. But I want to point 407 00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:00,320 Speaker 1: out before moving on to the other three points, I 408 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:04,560 Speaker 1: want to point out that everyone exists in a bubble. Uh. 409 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:09,000 Speaker 1: Something like Facebook or social media may exacerbate the extremities 410 00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:13,320 Speaker 1: of that bubble and may accelerate the timeline of how 411 00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:18,199 Speaker 1: this radicalization and it is radicalization occurs. But we have 412 00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:22,920 Speaker 1: to remember without social media, by listening to this show, 413 00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:25,800 Speaker 1: by creating this show every week, we are in a 414 00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:29,480 Speaker 1: bubble of our own. I think anybody who listens to 415 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:31,600 Speaker 1: stuff they don't want you to know, especially their big 416 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:35,480 Speaker 1: data episodes, would be hard put to genuinely say they 417 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:39,800 Speaker 1: were surprised by anything explored in a film like Social Dilemma. 418 00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:43,080 Speaker 1: But with that being said, I do believe it's important 419 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:48,439 Speaker 1: film to the second point regarding the the tipping of 420 00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:53,679 Speaker 1: the scales, right the curation through algorithm of a Facebook 421 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:58,520 Speaker 1: feed that's absolutely incentivized. Everything Facebook is saying, in my 422 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:04,120 Speaker 1: opinion is only my opinion about mitigating the dangers there 423 00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:08,920 Speaker 1: is entirely lip service and quite frankly, at the very 424 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:12,480 Speaker 1: least it's misleading. There's a lot of money here. Don't 425 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:16,320 Speaker 1: forget Cambridge Analytica, you know what I mean, Don't forget 426 00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:21,479 Speaker 1: the vast chasm between the power of private entity like 427 00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:26,320 Speaker 1: this and the complete lack of liability they have for 428 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:30,959 Speaker 1: the consequences of their actions. I would say that in 429 00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:36,480 Speaker 1: in this case, what we're looking at is a disincentivization 430 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:42,560 Speaker 1: from ethics from exploring the truth Facebook, like HSBC ha ha, 431 00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 1: a little bit of foreshadowing, there has no real punishment. 432 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:51,639 Speaker 1: The Mark Zuckerberg is never going to get in legal 433 00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:55,760 Speaker 1: like criminal trouble for anything. And what's going to happen 434 00:27:56,040 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 1: is that the fees or finds they will be confront 435 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,600 Speaker 1: unted with will be folded in as we've said numerous 436 00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:06,719 Speaker 1: times on previous episodes, into a cost of doing business. Well. 437 00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:09,680 Speaker 1: And they're also always like offering to just police themselves, 438 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:12,360 Speaker 1: you know, I mean, like they always present a solution 439 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:15,760 Speaker 1: they will also be the architect of. So it's really hard. 440 00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:18,680 Speaker 1: There's no real oversight because it takes government so long 441 00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:21,200 Speaker 1: to catch up this technology. They're saying, Oh, it's okay, 442 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:25,040 Speaker 1: we'll just be good and police ourselves. Yeah, yeah, which 443 00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:30,040 Speaker 1: again entirely misleading at best. The next point I would make, though, 444 00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:33,639 Speaker 1: is social media is not going away. The net would 445 00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:37,439 Speaker 1: have to crash. You made a salient point about a 446 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:41,280 Speaker 1: phenomenon that's been continuing for the better part of a 447 00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:44,920 Speaker 1: decade now, which is across the world, the majority of 448 00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:48,000 Speaker 1: people who have an Internet connection have it through an 449 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:52,280 Speaker 1: like a mobile device, right, and many of those people 450 00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:56,400 Speaker 1: who are entirely reliant on this mobile device are buying 451 00:28:56,600 --> 00:29:00,280 Speaker 1: sandbox things lost leaders at a great discount. Face Book 452 00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:02,840 Speaker 1: wants you to have a Facebook phone. Google wants you 453 00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:05,000 Speaker 1: to have a Google phone, just the same way that 454 00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:08,000 Speaker 1: Apple wants you to have an I phone, because then 455 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:10,520 Speaker 1: they can rinse seek and they can take a cut 456 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:15,000 Speaker 1: of everything. Like remember the I Think Fortnite got in 457 00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:20,400 Speaker 1: a fight with UH with Apple over their iOS and 458 00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:23,640 Speaker 1: how the payment works out. Facebook is doing the same thing. 459 00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:25,760 Speaker 1: There's also another one that was like happening, where it's 460 00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:28,000 Speaker 1: like a vendor that's basically it's like a game company. 461 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:29,400 Speaker 1: Maybe maybe it is. Maybe it's the one you're talking 462 00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:32,920 Speaker 1: about Ben that's essentially has its own ecosystem, and because 463 00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:36,800 Speaker 1: the app store vets individual developers, they're essentially barring this 464 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:38,760 Speaker 1: developer from the app store. So you're right, it's all 465 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:42,440 Speaker 1: about proprietary ownership and like saying no, you can't play 466 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:45,040 Speaker 1: in my sandbox. It's my sandbox, and that's what Facebook 467 00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:48,040 Speaker 1: is trying to do here. Yeah, agreed. And not to 468 00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:50,360 Speaker 1: put too much pressure on Facebook because when we're first 469 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:53,040 Speaker 1: talking about this story, we're looking at off air. You know, 470 00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:56,680 Speaker 1: everybody's first question shouldn't be just tell me more about 471 00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:59,600 Speaker 1: this leak and how it applies today, It should be 472 00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:04,320 Speaker 1: which leak is this? Is this the leak from nineteen? 473 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:06,760 Speaker 1: Which leak from twenty nineteen? Is it? You know what 474 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:09,840 Speaker 1: I mean? It's a sieve. You know, it's not watertight 475 00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:14,680 Speaker 1: by any means. Because the employees at the individual level 476 00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:21,040 Speaker 1: are perhaps going to practice some their own form of ethics. 477 00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:24,000 Speaker 1: This should be scary because there's an enormous Kaiju size 478 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:28,280 Speaker 1: badger in the bag here. Which is that The algorithms now, 479 00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:34,200 Speaker 1: which are like technically pr wise, they're defined as giving 480 00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:39,280 Speaker 1: you a seamless scrolling experience. Right, Uh, you feel good 481 00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:42,280 Speaker 1: about the stuff you were already believed had to get 482 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:46,160 Speaker 1: some cat pictures and some doggie pictures. That's funny. Uh, 483 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:48,640 Speaker 1: But they're very close and I would say there's an 484 00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:51,520 Speaker 1: argument we can make that they have already passed the 485 00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:57,920 Speaker 1: threshold UH between bringing something that you can observe into 486 00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:03,040 Speaker 1: UH steering and their or predicting your behavior. These algorithms 487 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:06,320 Speaker 1: want you to do stuff, and increasingly what they want 488 00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:09,880 Speaker 1: you to do was not just by seven toilets or 489 00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:13,320 Speaker 1: a Mazda or um, what's a what's a ridiculous thing? 490 00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:19,600 Speaker 1: People buybrow a wheelbarrow perfect or Faberge Artisanal wheel, Faberge willebarrow, 491 00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:27,760 Speaker 1: Faberge subscription service for will barrows, eggs, and uh flutable horns, 492 00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:30,640 Speaker 1: So those would be those would be by points at 493 00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:33,680 Speaker 1: least in response, I think that we're I think it's 494 00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:36,520 Speaker 1: not going away. I think it will accelerate, and I 495 00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:39,360 Speaker 1: don't think how at this point. I don't think it 496 00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:42,360 Speaker 1: matters how many people needed information about it. I think 497 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:46,280 Speaker 1: you're absolutely right in and all those points where we're fantastic, Matt. 498 00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:49,840 Speaker 1: I think you were hitting on this point UM earlier 499 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:52,000 Speaker 1: a little bit, and I'd left it to hear you 500 00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:53,760 Speaker 1: follow up. One of the quotes I think was the 501 00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:58,000 Speaker 1: most telling from Zang was was this um and by 502 00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:01,600 Speaker 1: the way, this was not her job. Job specifically to 503 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:04,560 Speaker 1: do this. She kind of took it on in her 504 00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:08,479 Speaker 1: own capacity or at least expanded the reach or like 505 00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:12,120 Speaker 1: the kind of UM capacity that she was hired to do. 506 00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:15,479 Speaker 1: And I'm sorry, I'm not getting her actual job title 507 00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:19,120 Speaker 1: perfectly correct. She is a data scientist. She had something 508 00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:21,760 Speaker 1: to do with this realm. But she absolutely went above 509 00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:24,160 Speaker 1: and beyond and running this memo and like in targeting 510 00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:27,080 Speaker 1: some of these things, and obviously it got her fired. 511 00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:29,720 Speaker 1: But this is a quote from saying that I think 512 00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:32,920 Speaker 1: really sums up how this stuff is dealt with. UM. 513 00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:35,720 Speaker 1: It's an open secret within the civic integrity space that 514 00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:39,920 Speaker 1: Facebook short term decisions are largely motivated by pr and 515 00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:43,680 Speaker 1: the potential for negative attention UM. And then it goes 516 00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,880 Speaker 1: on to say that her superiors would really only react 517 00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:49,880 Speaker 1: to these kinds of things after a New York Times 518 00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:54,040 Speaker 1: piece or Washington Post piece would be noticed by Facebook 519 00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:55,800 Speaker 1: leadership and they'd be like, Okay, now we have to 520 00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:58,120 Speaker 1: do this as an optics kind of move, so people 521 00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:01,160 Speaker 1: think that we're like, we care about this kind of stuff. UM. 522 00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:03,600 Speaker 1: And then this is the quote that I was talking about. 523 00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:07,280 Speaker 1: She says, it's why I've seen priorities of escalations shoot 524 00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:09,840 Speaker 1: up when others start threatening to go to the press, 525 00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:11,760 Speaker 1: and why I was informed by a leader in my 526 00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:16,080 Speaker 1: organization that my civic work was not impactful, under the 527 00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:19,400 Speaker 1: rationale that if the problems were meaningful, they would have 528 00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:23,880 Speaker 1: attracted attention, became a press fire, and convinced the company 529 00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:28,200 Speaker 1: to devote more attention to the space. Matt, I see 530 00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:32,120 Speaker 1: shaking your head vehemently there. And this is like double speak, 531 00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:34,239 Speaker 1: it kind of, isn't it. Like it's like it's not 532 00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:37,520 Speaker 1: a problem unless it's people know it's a problem. It's 533 00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:41,320 Speaker 1: like some Chronobyl logic, you know. Yeah, I for sure 534 00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:46,720 Speaker 1: I can see that. Um, it's just a strange situation 535 00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:52,160 Speaker 1: because the actors, good or bad, who are you know, 536 00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:58,440 Speaker 1: utilizing Facebook to put out misinformation or disinformation in these ways, 537 00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:02,520 Speaker 1: generally in reas that are not the United States or 538 00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:05,560 Speaker 1: other Western countries. That's that's some of the biggest things 539 00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:09,560 Speaker 1: that she's talking about. Um, like in Honduras, when there's 540 00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:13,040 Speaker 1: this massive campaign on Facebook to make one candidate look 541 00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:16,880 Speaker 1: terrible and it's false information, or at least it's allegedly 542 00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:21,439 Speaker 1: false information, and it's bad news. Um, anybody can put 543 00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:24,480 Speaker 1: that stuff on there. But I I don't. As you 544 00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:28,279 Speaker 1: guys know, just from our working with social media over 545 00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:31,840 Speaker 1: the years, that anyone can pay for an ad on 546 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:36,040 Speaker 1: Facebook and kids work to get a message out. You 547 00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:38,719 Speaker 1: can promote a show like this one as much as 548 00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:43,160 Speaker 1: you want, but if the algorithm isn't behind what you're 549 00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:45,120 Speaker 1: trying to do and you're not playing it right, and 550 00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:48,760 Speaker 1: especially if you're not paying for it, UM, it doesn't 551 00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:53,480 Speaker 1: get much visibility unless there are people clamoring to share 552 00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:57,080 Speaker 1: that thing. And then you know, as as it says, 553 00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:00,480 Speaker 1: as one says, it goes viral. UM. It's it's weird 554 00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:03,160 Speaker 1: to me that these messages can even go out there 555 00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:07,560 Speaker 1: and become so viral that humanity. I guess all of 556 00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:12,440 Speaker 1: us together we still don't or maybe we've developed this 557 00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:19,440 Speaker 1: lack of an understanding of something that is factual because 558 00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:22,319 Speaker 1: of all of these sources of information that we have. UM. 559 00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:25,799 Speaker 1: I think that's the most troubling part, for we don't 560 00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:29,920 Speaker 1: have the hardware. We don't have the hardware to adequate 561 00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:33,000 Speaker 1: like information. We say knowledge is power, but what we 562 00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:35,640 Speaker 1: need to understand when we say that is that it 563 00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:39,520 Speaker 1: is power in the way that nutritional food is power. 564 00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:45,280 Speaker 1: I would see information is as important as air, water, 565 00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:48,480 Speaker 1: and food and when we are That's why we talked 566 00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:51,560 Speaker 1: about eating junk food, right with the viral memes and 567 00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:55,520 Speaker 1: all those little dopamine pops when someone reacts to your 568 00:35:55,640 --> 00:36:00,640 Speaker 1: thoughts online, what I think is in hairt here, And 569 00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:04,920 Speaker 1: I know I'm coming off fairly pessimistic. Again, I'm very 570 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:08,400 Speaker 1: much in a bubble because I read a ton of 571 00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:12,520 Speaker 1: things about this and white papers and so on. Uh, 572 00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:16,920 Speaker 1: We've we've normalized the existence of this stuff. We've normalized 573 00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:21,360 Speaker 1: the acceptance of the idea that the world cannot be 574 00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:24,680 Speaker 1: fully understood. There's just too much happening for in a 575 00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:29,080 Speaker 1: single person to know. So went away cognitively. If you 576 00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:33,120 Speaker 1: have social media accounts, you are a cyborg. There is 577 00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:38,520 Speaker 1: an assistant with or without your consent, helping you, you know, 578 00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:41,560 Speaker 1: kind of pre chewing your food for you, cutting up 579 00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:44,120 Speaker 1: your steak and then uh, and then just giving it 580 00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:46,560 Speaker 1: to you a little, a little nibber numb at a time. 581 00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:49,120 Speaker 1: How does it feel to know your little baby burden 582 00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:53,960 Speaker 1: getting fed your information press. It's weirdly comforting. And my 583 00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:59,319 Speaker 1: mommy loves me very much. So yeah, so I would 584 00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:01,440 Speaker 1: ask you, guys, what do you think this means for 585 00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:06,320 Speaker 1: the future. That's that's to me, that's the most important question. 586 00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:11,000 Speaker 1: What what does this mean for the future of a 587 00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:14,560 Speaker 1: I mean, we're in a post factual society, There's no 588 00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:18,120 Speaker 1: two ways about it. We're at what Fukayama called the 589 00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:20,799 Speaker 1: end of history in some ways, Like what do you 590 00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:25,160 Speaker 1: think what do you think Facebook or its replacement will 591 00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:29,040 Speaker 1: be like eight years from now? Let's make it scary, 592 00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:30,600 Speaker 1: what do you think it will be like five years 593 00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:34,200 Speaker 1: from now? Well, one one thing that the Social Dilemma 594 00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:36,840 Speaker 1: pointed out that I think we've certainly discussed and it 595 00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:38,800 Speaker 1: occurred to me, but they do it in a really eloquent, 596 00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:42,040 Speaker 1: straightforward way, is that, like, our brains aren't really going 597 00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:46,480 Speaker 1: to evolve in eight years, probably not in the eighty years, 598 00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:48,560 Speaker 1: not in a hundred years. You know, we're kind of 599 00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:51,120 Speaker 1: hit a wall as far as that's concerned. But you 600 00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:55,319 Speaker 1: know what does evolve exponentially computing power, the power of 601 00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:58,000 Speaker 1: these algorithms. So they're just gonna keep getting better and 602 00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:00,960 Speaker 1: better and better. Uh, they're gonna be better at predicting 603 00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:03,800 Speaker 1: our behavior and in gaming our brains because our brains 604 00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:06,880 Speaker 1: are dumb compared to like these algorithms they've kind of 605 00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:09,960 Speaker 1: been able to outsmart us already, hence the effectiveness and 606 00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:13,040 Speaker 1: being able to manipulate these elections just by targeting us 607 00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:15,560 Speaker 1: with like things that appeal to our our worst nature 608 00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:17,759 Speaker 1: and that aren't true. You know, that's the whole point. 609 00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:19,600 Speaker 1: Maybe we bury the lead. A lot of these stories 610 00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:23,160 Speaker 1: that we're talking about are what real fake news is, 611 00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:25,799 Speaker 1: where they're essentially stories that are put out there that 612 00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:29,080 Speaker 1: people share because it appeals to something they already believe 613 00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:31,279 Speaker 1: and it makes them feel good about that opinion until 614 00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:33,800 Speaker 1: they push it out. And you know, there's it's happening 615 00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:37,120 Speaker 1: right now with people saying, you know, targeting places like 616 00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:40,359 Speaker 1: Puerto Rico who are very uncomfortable with the idea of communism, 617 00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:43,040 Speaker 1: and they're putting out ads saying Joe Biden's a communist? 618 00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:46,920 Speaker 1: You know, is that true? Is it completely slanderous or 619 00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:48,680 Speaker 1: is you know, maybe he says things that are a 620 00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:51,160 Speaker 1: little in the communist tip, you know, but that's the 621 00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:54,839 Speaker 1: kind of stuff that they're doing. They're targeting people's biases, 622 00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:57,520 Speaker 1: and they're hitting people where they live, which is on 623 00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:00,400 Speaker 1: the damn Internet. Yeah, that's tough because where do you 624 00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:08,960 Speaker 1: look for that non snack able um more nourishing news 625 00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:12,799 Speaker 1: and facts. Right. This should bother a lot of us 626 00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:22,359 Speaker 1: conspiracy realist. Your ability to learn objectively is being heavily influenced. 627 00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:25,359 Speaker 1: But you are not powerless in this endeavor. You're not. 628 00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:31,440 Speaker 1: You have agency in this situation. The the inundation of 629 00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:35,560 Speaker 1: media and information is, as I said numerous times, much 630 00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:39,280 Speaker 1: more than the human brain evolved or was designed, however 631 00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:42,640 Speaker 1: you want to say it to handle right, So think 632 00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:45,640 Speaker 1: about it this way. Think about and a graph in 633 00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:49,000 Speaker 1: X and a y axis. Right now, what's happening is 634 00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:52,680 Speaker 1: the average person with an Internet connection has what I 635 00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:56,839 Speaker 1: would call a first paragraph of Wikipedia depth of understanding 636 00:39:56,960 --> 00:39:59,880 Speaker 1: about many, many, many things. And that's not a ding 637 00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:04,360 Speaker 1: back in the days of the Middle Ages you were, 638 00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:08,239 Speaker 1: you were a literary lion. You are a giant of 639 00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:10,719 Speaker 1: knowledge if you knew just a little bit about so 640 00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:15,759 Speaker 1: many things. Now our now, with social media, everybody is 641 00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:20,439 Speaker 1: like that person. Our breath of knowledge is larger than 642 00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:22,640 Speaker 1: it may have been at any other single point in 643 00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:25,960 Speaker 1: human history as a species. However, that comes out a 644 00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:30,879 Speaker 1: sacrifice of our depth of knowledge, our deep learning. And 645 00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:33,160 Speaker 1: that's something I think, Matt, you and I have been 646 00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:36,640 Speaker 1: pretty clear about ever since the YouTube days. You have 647 00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:40,279 Speaker 1: the power. You have the power to go beyond that 648 00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:43,560 Speaker 1: Facebook post. You have the power to go beyond that 649 00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:47,640 Speaker 1: three minute, five minutes spot on the evening news. You 650 00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:51,920 Speaker 1: can learn deeply. You out of all the living things 651 00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:55,080 Speaker 1: on the planet, you if you were listening, you were human. 652 00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:57,920 Speaker 1: And if your AI and listening, you're even better at this. 653 00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:01,839 Speaker 1: You have the ability to just spend spend an hour 654 00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:07,120 Speaker 1: reading contradictory sources and determine the truth for yourself. Because 655 00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:10,680 Speaker 1: as our boy Fox Molder always said, it's out there. Bro, 656 00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:13,520 Speaker 1: You're you're like arming all this AI with the knowledge 657 00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:18,080 Speaker 1: that they could continue their deep learning until they know 658 00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:21,120 Speaker 1: everything better than anything else. Dude, you just you just 659 00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:27,360 Speaker 1: started the singularity. No, it's about time. It's about time. 660 00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:31,440 Speaker 1: You know, at the end of history, at least we'll 661 00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:34,919 Speaker 1: have the click bait to keep us warp. Yes, we will, 662 00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:38,799 Speaker 1: like the clickbait that you would usually find on BuzzFeed. 663 00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:40,960 Speaker 1: And it's not a ding on BuzzFeed. It's just their 664 00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:44,160 Speaker 1: business model. That's the way they grew up and became 665 00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:46,919 Speaker 1: a big company. But you know, there's this other thing 666 00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:50,720 Speaker 1: called BuzzFeed News that I personally have never given much 667 00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:55,920 Speaker 1: thought about, you know, as in believing that it's a 668 00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:58,200 Speaker 1: reputable news source. It would be in the beginning. I 669 00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:00,880 Speaker 1: didn't just because I knew what BuzzFeed was, or I 670 00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:05,200 Speaker 1: thought I did. Right. Listicals, didn't they make up that word? Yeah, 671 00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:07,279 Speaker 1: just things that are like, hey, look at this, just 672 00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:11,120 Speaker 1: click click some for over here for a while, ways 673 00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:15,680 Speaker 1: the fourteen ways to take care of your feet, stores 674 00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:19,439 Speaker 1: hate numbers nine. I mean, that's really what I thought 675 00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:22,239 Speaker 1: all of BuzzFeed was, because again it kind of was. 676 00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:28,120 Speaker 1: But with BuzzFeed News, our next story, uh, it comes 677 00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:30,560 Speaker 1: from them, and it began from them because there were 678 00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:33,360 Speaker 1: documents sent to them and they didn't work alone. But 679 00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:37,239 Speaker 1: we'll tell you all about what they uncovered after a 680 00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:46,920 Speaker 1: quick word from our sponsor, and we're back as we 681 00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:50,399 Speaker 1: teased beforehand, this is a story that comes from us 682 00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:55,959 Speaker 1: via BuzzFeed News and several other players, including the International 683 00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:59,719 Speaker 1: Consortium of Investigative Journalists. Now that's a name that makes 684 00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:02,640 Speaker 1: you go, oh, there's gotta be facts in there somewhere. 685 00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:05,680 Speaker 1: It gives you a lot more. It definitely lends itself 686 00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:08,440 Speaker 1: more to the idea of credibility than BuzzFeed News. But 687 00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:10,560 Speaker 1: we gotta stop ragging on buzz videos. You're right, Matt, 688 00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:12,359 Speaker 1: I thought the same, and they really do do some 689 00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:16,040 Speaker 1: seriously legit reporting. You guys have to stop ragging on 690 00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:19,600 Speaker 1: BuzzFeed news. I remember back in the YouTube days one time. 691 00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:22,000 Speaker 1: I don't know if you remember this, Matt, I was 692 00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:26,480 Speaker 1: going through the same crisis of research faith, and I 693 00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:31,680 Speaker 1: remember I remember saying, you know, Matt, should we should 694 00:43:31,719 --> 00:43:35,719 Speaker 1: we tell people that one of the sources for this BuzzFeed, 695 00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:39,719 Speaker 1: because we're already a conspiracy show. Well, I think it 696 00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:43,160 Speaker 1: speaks to our our our biases and the bubbles that 697 00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:46,960 Speaker 1: we find ourselves in, and you know, and first impressions. 698 00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:50,879 Speaker 1: Honestly speaks to all of those things. Um. But yeah, 699 00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:55,880 Speaker 1: props where it is deserved. Good good on you, BuzzFeed News. Um. 700 00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:59,120 Speaker 1: So it's a story. I'm gonna read you some reporting 701 00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:03,520 Speaker 1: that was done by the International Business Times on the 702 00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:07,239 Speaker 1: story that was broke by BuzzFeed and the International Consortium 703 00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:11,800 Speaker 1: of of Investigative Journalists. Okay, here we go. Report global 704 00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:17,520 Speaker 1: banks including HSBC, Deutsche Bank, JP, Morgan have laundered trillions 705 00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:23,759 Speaker 1: in illicit cash. I'm sorry, trillions, trillions, trillions in illicit cash. Now, 706 00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:26,840 Speaker 1: the first thought that you likely have, as Ben and Nolan. 707 00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:29,600 Speaker 1: I had was yeah, of course I know that. Come on, 708 00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:34,560 Speaker 1: of course banks are laundering money. The second thought is, hey, 709 00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:37,080 Speaker 1: you know what, I've even heard you guys specifically talk 710 00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:40,839 Speaker 1: about that and that one bank you mentioned, HSBC and 711 00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:43,680 Speaker 1: all the laundering that they did for drug cartels back 712 00:44:43,719 --> 00:44:46,319 Speaker 1: in the day. Bank too, though Deutsche Bank has been 713 00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:48,839 Speaker 1: been on that list for in Deutsche Bank and Wacoba 714 00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:51,400 Speaker 1: which is now's far Ago, and all of the other banks. 715 00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:53,640 Speaker 1: And they always get their hands smacked a little bit 716 00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:56,400 Speaker 1: and then they go right back to it. And that 717 00:44:57,080 --> 00:45:01,360 Speaker 1: is the big story here. All of the banks have 718 00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:04,000 Speaker 1: been doing it. They get their hands slapped, and they 719 00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:07,320 Speaker 1: keep doing it. And it's a process that just starts 720 00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:09,319 Speaker 1: and stops and starts. It stops and starts, stops, and 721 00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:14,279 Speaker 1: it continues on forever. Um. There are a ton a 722 00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:17,920 Speaker 1: ton of details that were brought forth from a leak, 723 00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:23,000 Speaker 1: a leak of documents that came to us from the 724 00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:27,759 Speaker 1: Financial Crimes Enforcement Network or finn SEN. You're going to 725 00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:30,040 Speaker 1: see that all over the place if you haven't already 726 00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:33,160 Speaker 1: been seeing that f I N, Capital C E N 727 00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:39,319 Speaker 1: and this these league, these leaked documents that got out there, uh, 728 00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:45,080 Speaker 1: and specifically got to BuzzFeed News. They detail essentially strange 729 00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:49,120 Speaker 1: transactions or transactions that have been marked by one of 730 00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:54,480 Speaker 1: these banking institutions as possibly suspicious. And that doesn't mean 731 00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:59,200 Speaker 1: that there's anything necessarily nefarious going on with any single transaction, 732 00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:03,799 Speaker 1: but these are at least internally marked, right, and then 733 00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:06,640 Speaker 1: it's up to the bank essentially to check that stuff 734 00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:10,439 Speaker 1: out and then report it if they feel it is necessary. Right, 735 00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:15,960 Speaker 1: the Foxes must report the weekly massacre of the Henhouse 736 00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:20,920 Speaker 1: quarterly rather, I would say important point, Uh, just to 737 00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:25,520 Speaker 1: be clear, Finnson is not an independent agency. It is 738 00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:29,960 Speaker 1: part of the US Treasury Department. Yes, you know, you're 739 00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:32,560 Speaker 1: absolutely right. I hope I didn't characterize in that way. 740 00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:36,440 Speaker 1: But yeah, it's a it's a thing. It's a network 741 00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:40,759 Speaker 1: within the Treasury, and there they all say, well, you, 742 00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:43,000 Speaker 1: you boys and girls over there in the banking industry, 743 00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:45,399 Speaker 1: you play nice and if you see anything weird, send 744 00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:48,279 Speaker 1: it our way and we'll check it out. And when 745 00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:51,920 Speaker 1: that happens doesn't necessarily mean that any action is going 746 00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:56,239 Speaker 1: to be taking to stop these transactions or further transactions 747 00:46:56,280 --> 00:46:59,520 Speaker 1: from the same players that are making these suspicious transactions. 748 00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:01,759 Speaker 1: Maybe this is a silly QUESTIONAI irrelevant, but like where 749 00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:03,560 Speaker 1: did the I R S figure into all this? Like 750 00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:07,440 Speaker 1: I fear an audit if I like over acclaim stuff 751 00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:09,560 Speaker 1: on my taxes, Like if I try to write too 752 00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:11,880 Speaker 1: much off, I'm like, I'm not going to get flagged. 753 00:47:12,239 --> 00:47:14,759 Speaker 1: You know what, Where do they figure into this whole mess? 754 00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:17,200 Speaker 1: And you'd think with that much money it would be 755 00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:19,960 Speaker 1: just an instantly red flag if there wasn't just serious 756 00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:24,319 Speaker 1: obfuscation going on by the banks to hide these transactions. 757 00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:27,759 Speaker 1: Well you know most of this is international, um, but 758 00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:30,880 Speaker 1: but yeah, um, it doesn't mean that the I R 759 00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:32,719 Speaker 1: S isn't going to be involved with a lot of 760 00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:37,640 Speaker 1: this because there are people like uh, let's see JP Morgan, 761 00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:42,440 Speaker 1: well JP Morgan operating out of Malaysia with the Malaysia 762 00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:51,520 Speaker 1: Sovereign Wealth Fund. Um, like JP Morgan transferring funds Venezuela, Ukraine, 763 00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:55,320 Speaker 1: Malaysia having to do with the looting of the public 764 00:47:55,360 --> 00:48:00,480 Speaker 1: funds in those states those countries. Um, mean, there's that, 765 00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:03,280 Speaker 1: So that's happening and all there's all kinds of things. Again, 766 00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:05,960 Speaker 1: this y'all. The set of documents, I think it's two 767 00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:13,760 Speaker 1: thousand something documents yeah, documents. It's there's so many weird 768 00:48:13,840 --> 00:48:17,560 Speaker 1: transactions happening all over the world with all of these 769 00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:21,960 Speaker 1: varying banks, in varying capacities, and in varying levels of 770 00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:27,200 Speaker 1: wrongdoing or what maybe wrongdoing. Um One of the only 771 00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:29,719 Speaker 1: ones occurring in the United States that I was looking at, 772 00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:33,040 Speaker 1: at least in depth, had to do with Paul Manafort, 773 00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:38,080 Speaker 1: President Trump's former campaign manager. UM. Some there's several million dollar, 774 00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:42,719 Speaker 1: fifty million dollars that JP Morgan processed for Paul Manaford, 775 00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:45,560 Speaker 1: and then six point nine million that got moved around 776 00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:48,319 Speaker 1: by JP Morgan on behalf of Manafort after he quit 777 00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:50,560 Speaker 1: the campaign. I mean, that's just an interesting thing. I 778 00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:52,440 Speaker 1: don't know exactly what it means. It doesn't mean he 779 00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:55,759 Speaker 1: did anything wrong with it, but he was under investigation 780 00:48:55,880 --> 00:49:02,080 Speaker 1: for some other stuff having to do with evicted that 781 00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:06,359 Speaker 1: he also he also has some connections. It's got some 782 00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:11,080 Speaker 1: Russian connections there, uh, some Eastern European stuff. This this 783 00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:21,560 Speaker 1: does provide some compelling, circumstantial evidence of shady backdoor deals. 784 00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:25,440 Speaker 1: Right from cleaning out the public funds. It also well, 785 00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:27,320 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Ben, really quick when you say public funds, 786 00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:29,960 Speaker 1: is that the same as like taking our tax dollars 787 00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:32,680 Speaker 1: that are like held in escrow or something and literally 788 00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:36,200 Speaker 1: funneling them into other things or what does that mean 789 00:49:36,200 --> 00:49:40,640 Speaker 1: exactly inbezzling. But when you say public funds, investling public 790 00:49:40,680 --> 00:49:43,440 Speaker 1: funds like, yeah, you could say a tax base. So 791 00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:48,160 Speaker 1: for instance, let's say you're an oligarch in Russia and 792 00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:51,520 Speaker 1: you not only do you you can take all the 793 00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:54,879 Speaker 1: money you want, right if you are friends with your 794 00:49:54,920 --> 00:49:59,280 Speaker 1: other oligarchs. H Taking advantage of the vulnerable is something 795 00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:02,840 Speaker 1: this speci ease does for fun, even when it doesn't 796 00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:06,319 Speaker 1: benefit us. So you can take all that money from 797 00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:10,960 Speaker 1: the public funds. But the real trick, the real smooth 798 00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:15,040 Speaker 1: operators play the shot in the background and then find 799 00:50:15,120 --> 00:50:20,200 Speaker 1: ways to move it through increasingly legitimate avenues. These are 800 00:50:20,239 --> 00:50:28,400 Speaker 1: the suspicious activity reports that the star Yeah, that's the 801 00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:31,120 Speaker 1: kind of stars you want to catch, and uh, this 802 00:50:31,239 --> 00:50:34,560 Speaker 1: is This also brings us to the question about the 803 00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:38,279 Speaker 1: I R S. It brings us to the Bank Secrecy 804 00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:44,120 Speaker 1: Act of here in the US, and that act has 805 00:50:44,160 --> 00:50:46,080 Speaker 1: a lot of loopholes. It's got more loops than the 806 00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:52,000 Speaker 1: roller coaster. But if it actually works, it is meant 807 00:50:52,640 --> 00:50:57,719 Speaker 1: to obligate financial institutions in the US to assist Uncle 808 00:50:57,800 --> 00:51:03,799 Speaker 1: Sam in detecting and preventing money laundry. However, anybody who 809 00:51:04,239 --> 00:51:08,279 Speaker 1: has a cursory familiarity with the halls of power and 810 00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:12,680 Speaker 1: with Congress knows that many members of Congress, I'll say it, 811 00:51:12,680 --> 00:51:17,799 Speaker 1: it's fine, they're disincentivized from approaching money laundering because it 812 00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:21,000 Speaker 1: is very hard to find a fox guarding a hen 813 00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:23,759 Speaker 1: house that will point the finger or the paw at 814 00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:27,560 Speaker 1: itself is a very dirty game like these leaks. Obviously, 815 00:51:27,600 --> 00:51:31,600 Speaker 1: some of us listening are instantly reminded of the Panama papers. 816 00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:36,560 Speaker 1: Right speak by the curve folks. We went off air 817 00:51:36,640 --> 00:51:41,400 Speaker 1: so we could remember the name of the primary institution 818 00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:46,200 Speaker 1: involved in the Panama papers, and after several increasingly juice 819 00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:50,799 Speaker 1: and guesses in our brainstorming, we arrived at most Act Fonseca, 820 00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:54,560 Speaker 1: which is the correct thing. What happened there, well, I 821 00:51:54,640 --> 00:51:58,040 Speaker 1: believe correct me, I'm trying to remember the right leak here, 822 00:51:58,120 --> 00:52:01,400 Speaker 1: Matt and Nold, But I believe eve that the big 823 00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:06,640 Speaker 1: takeaway from uh that was the assassination of the journalists 824 00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:11,279 Speaker 1: involved in breaking this story. Yeah, it's right. Caruna Galiza 825 00:52:11,520 --> 00:52:18,879 Speaker 1: Galizia was murdered. So if I were involved in this 826 00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:23,000 Speaker 1: current leak fincon as it's as it's uh as we're 827 00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:26,560 Speaker 1: still dealing with the fallout, I don't know, I would 828 00:52:26,600 --> 00:52:29,480 Speaker 1: be very careful. Yeah. Well, I mean in that one 829 00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:34,239 Speaker 1: it was individuals, um. When this one also deals with 830 00:52:34,280 --> 00:52:39,600 Speaker 1: some individuals, some groups such as terrorists, organizations um. But 831 00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:43,280 Speaker 1: in in the Panama papers case, it was individual human 832 00:52:43,320 --> 00:52:47,040 Speaker 1: beings offshore transactions that were supposed to be private and 833 00:52:47,200 --> 00:52:52,520 Speaker 1: secret and not necessarily illegal right ostensibly. Yeah, but it's 834 00:52:52,560 --> 00:52:55,480 Speaker 1: still showed big chunks of money getting moved around by 835 00:52:55,520 --> 00:52:57,880 Speaker 1: individual humans that they didn't want you to know about. 836 00:52:58,719 --> 00:53:01,680 Speaker 1: We have to do an episode on us. Yeah, this 837 00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:05,160 Speaker 1: is the whole this whole episode you guys, HSBC, though 838 00:53:05,320 --> 00:53:08,000 Speaker 1: for years, for the better part of a decade, we've 839 00:53:08,040 --> 00:53:11,319 Speaker 1: been using that at the point to actual conspiracies, not 840 00:53:11,520 --> 00:53:16,880 Speaker 1: conspiracy theories. They what this is the bank longtime listeners 841 00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:24,080 Speaker 1: that specifically reconstructed their teller windows to accept large deposits 842 00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:28,279 Speaker 1: from It's true. God, I remember that. Oh and let's 843 00:53:28,360 --> 00:53:30,640 Speaker 1: let's not forget guys. It kind of went under the 844 00:53:30,719 --> 00:53:33,239 Speaker 1: radar for us. We I think we mentioned it back 845 00:53:33,239 --> 00:53:35,960 Speaker 1: in the day. It was right towards the tail end 846 00:53:36,280 --> 00:53:42,279 Speaker 1: of our major video era. UM where standard standard and 847 00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:46,600 Speaker 1: chartered or standard chartered UM a bank in I believe, 848 00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:53,240 Speaker 1: uh the UK is that correct standard chartered large bank. 849 00:53:53,960 --> 00:53:56,960 Speaker 1: In two thousand and twelve, they were accused of conspiring 850 00:53:57,000 --> 00:53:59,840 Speaker 1: with Iran for a decade to move two hundred and 851 00:54:00,040 --> 00:54:04,320 Speaker 1: fifty billion dollars in secret transactions. And they were also 852 00:54:04,360 --> 00:54:07,400 Speaker 1: found to be linked with a couple of other groups 853 00:54:08,239 --> 00:54:13,800 Speaker 1: that appear to have been financing terrorists acts in Israel 854 00:54:13,880 --> 00:54:16,840 Speaker 1: and other places. UM, I mean these are you know, 855 00:54:16,960 --> 00:54:21,480 Speaker 1: we're naming these banks off the HSBC, Standard Chartered JP Morgan, 856 00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:25,440 Speaker 1: We've mentioned Wacovia, We've done episodes on them. Now they 857 00:54:25,440 --> 00:54:29,320 Speaker 1: were just doing terrible things, laundering money for drug cartels too. 858 00:54:29,680 --> 00:54:34,040 Speaker 1: It's just it's it's insane. And in this case we've 859 00:54:34,080 --> 00:54:38,319 Speaker 1: got we've got a ton of stuff to go through 860 00:54:38,600 --> 00:54:42,879 Speaker 1: thanks to the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists and BuzzFeed News. 861 00:54:42,880 --> 00:54:45,120 Speaker 1: So what other do is recommend everyone goes to I 862 00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:49,440 Speaker 1: see i J dot org and check out the giant 863 00:54:49,719 --> 00:54:54,200 Speaker 1: article titled global banks defy US crackdowns by serving oligarch's 864 00:54:54,239 --> 00:54:59,719 Speaker 1: criminals and terrorists. Look through it Uh, digest what you can. 865 00:55:00,160 --> 00:55:04,480 Speaker 1: There is a lot there and very soon, Ben, I'm 866 00:55:04,520 --> 00:55:07,000 Speaker 1: looking at you specifically for this. Very soon, we'll come 867 00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:11,560 Speaker 1: back with a deep dive into this topic. Yeah, that's 868 00:55:11,560 --> 00:55:18,560 Speaker 1: our that's our plan. It's unfortunate because it is developing stories, 869 00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:21,480 Speaker 1: so we run the risk of run the risk of 870 00:55:21,560 --> 00:55:24,000 Speaker 1: something new happening. But we'll just cover it in a 871 00:55:24,160 --> 00:55:29,759 Speaker 1: breaking update. Depending on who get we'll get, we'll get 872 00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:32,920 Speaker 1: two to five episodes. Has this been like blasted across 873 00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:35,000 Speaker 1: the cable news networks and stuff? I don't know, Like 874 00:55:35,040 --> 00:55:36,960 Speaker 1: I don't. I don't have cable, so I couldn't tell you. 875 00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:39,719 Speaker 1: I haven't seen uh last week tonight yet, but I 876 00:55:39,719 --> 00:55:42,600 Speaker 1: imagine this is a big story. Yeah, it's very recent. 877 00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:50,799 Speaker 1: It broke yesterday, I believe at least um, Yeah, broke it, yeah, 878 00:55:50,960 --> 00:55:55,600 Speaker 1: on September, and I had seen something. This is weird. 879 00:55:55,640 --> 00:55:57,920 Speaker 1: But I know this makes me sound sketchy, but I 880 00:55:57,960 --> 00:56:02,799 Speaker 1: had seen some uh rumblings or rumors or speculation as 881 00:56:02,800 --> 00:56:07,200 Speaker 1: early as September. But to me, that only means that 882 00:56:08,760 --> 00:56:15,400 Speaker 1: someone with knowledge of the upcoming publication new. When stuff 883 00:56:15,440 --> 00:56:18,680 Speaker 1: like this breaks in the public sphere, that usually means 884 00:56:18,719 --> 00:56:22,920 Speaker 1: for several months, if not years, people have been quietly 885 00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:26,120 Speaker 1: investigating it, and it's a huge gamble to take. I mean, 886 00:56:26,560 --> 00:56:30,319 Speaker 1: journalists get a hard time, right, but there are some 887 00:56:30,480 --> 00:56:33,680 Speaker 1: of the there are some of the hardest working people 888 00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:38,480 Speaker 1: on this planet, and often they are the most imperiled. 889 00:56:38,840 --> 00:56:42,239 Speaker 1: So be nice to your journalist friends. Uh. They don't 890 00:56:42,280 --> 00:56:45,319 Speaker 1: get paid what they should and they're doing this for you, 891 00:56:45,440 --> 00:56:49,359 Speaker 1: not for their egos. That's really good. You know. The 892 00:56:49,360 --> 00:56:51,759 Speaker 1: The other big story just to come out of this 893 00:56:51,880 --> 00:56:54,040 Speaker 1: and we'll be will be done here is that the 894 00:56:54,280 --> 00:56:57,920 Speaker 1: stock prices for a lot of these banks has They've 895 00:56:57,920 --> 00:57:01,840 Speaker 1: just been hammered as of right now because of this story, 896 00:57:02,200 --> 00:57:06,319 Speaker 1: which doesn't always happen. Time for a bailout. I mean 897 00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:11,399 Speaker 1: imagine like imagine, imagine you clearly break the law as 898 00:57:11,400 --> 00:57:14,400 Speaker 1: an individual, and you get hit with a fine but 899 00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:17,360 Speaker 1: not jail time, and then you say, oh, that finds 900 00:57:17,400 --> 00:57:19,880 Speaker 1: a lot, and then the government comes in and says, 901 00:57:20,040 --> 00:57:24,320 Speaker 1: how much money do you need? That's what's happening. Like 902 00:57:24,360 --> 00:57:26,840 Speaker 1: I mean, even with the HSBC thing, like where they 903 00:57:26,880 --> 00:57:29,960 Speaker 1: literally admitted to laundering close to a billion dollars for 904 00:57:30,040 --> 00:57:33,040 Speaker 1: drug cartels. Not to be repetitive, I think they paid 905 00:57:33,040 --> 00:57:37,040 Speaker 1: about two billion fines. Uh, to avoid being you know, 906 00:57:37,720 --> 00:57:40,800 Speaker 1: having to essentially have any real consequences outside of you know, 907 00:57:40,840 --> 00:57:42,560 Speaker 1: paying money. Not that that's not a lot of money. 908 00:57:42,560 --> 00:57:44,320 Speaker 1: If you think about how much money they make over 909 00:57:44,640 --> 00:57:48,120 Speaker 1: the long term, Uh, it's sort of pennies. Uh. And 910 00:57:48,160 --> 00:57:51,000 Speaker 1: then it turns out as part of this league that 911 00:57:51,120 --> 00:57:55,760 Speaker 1: they have been doing business with Russian organized crime again. 912 00:57:56,080 --> 00:57:58,440 Speaker 1: Well again, I mean, you know, they're not they're not, 913 00:57:58,600 --> 00:58:02,440 Speaker 1: they're not Latin American drug hotels, but they're still doing 914 00:58:02,480 --> 00:58:06,440 Speaker 1: illegal stuff in a very real way because there's really 915 00:58:06,480 --> 00:58:08,920 Speaker 1: no holding these folks accountable, and there's so much money 916 00:58:08,960 --> 00:58:12,480 Speaker 1: to be made from people who are very, very wealthy, 917 00:58:12,560 --> 00:58:15,480 Speaker 1: and you do not want they don't want that milk 918 00:58:15,560 --> 00:58:18,959 Speaker 1: to stop flowing, you know from the Okay, I'm gonna 919 00:58:19,000 --> 00:58:21,240 Speaker 1: stop that image there, but they don't want it to stop. 920 00:58:21,600 --> 00:58:23,600 Speaker 1: It's it's not in their best interests to like follow 921 00:58:23,680 --> 00:58:25,520 Speaker 1: up on this until to your point, Ben, the the 922 00:58:26,120 --> 00:58:29,480 Speaker 1: fox pointing the finger at the other fox or themselves. 923 00:58:29,720 --> 00:58:32,760 Speaker 1: Maybe you'll point at another fox if it's your competitive 924 00:58:32,800 --> 00:58:35,480 Speaker 1: fox and you want that fox out of your handhouse 925 00:58:35,560 --> 00:58:37,840 Speaker 1: so you can eat all the hens. But even then 926 00:58:38,120 --> 00:58:40,520 Speaker 1: we've talked about even when we were on Harmontown. How 927 00:58:40,600 --> 00:58:43,360 Speaker 1: they don't that doesn't happen. You don't really see people 928 00:58:43,360 --> 00:58:46,000 Speaker 1: that are at that level going to war with each 929 00:58:46,000 --> 00:58:48,400 Speaker 1: other because they're all kind of in the same echelon 930 00:58:48,720 --> 00:58:51,400 Speaker 1: and they're all benefiting off of each other in a weird, 931 00:58:51,880 --> 00:58:58,520 Speaker 1: you know, symbiotic parasitic relationship, incestuous, I would add. But 932 00:58:58,600 --> 00:59:02,360 Speaker 1: also we have to remember, I'll take pains to make 933 00:59:02,400 --> 00:59:07,720 Speaker 1: this clear. Uh, what appear to be distinctions between many 934 00:59:07,760 --> 00:59:12,400 Speaker 1: of these institutions, criminal and financial, The things that appear 935 00:59:12,440 --> 00:59:15,880 Speaker 1: to be distinct entities uh in in the local news. 936 00:59:16,200 --> 00:59:21,560 Speaker 1: Those distinctions are often pageantry past a certain financial threshold. 937 00:59:22,160 --> 00:59:27,439 Speaker 1: They are very much like uh, subsidiaries of a larger thing. 938 00:59:27,560 --> 00:59:31,560 Speaker 1: And I know that feels conspiratorial, and perhaps it is, 939 00:59:31,600 --> 00:59:34,800 Speaker 1: but it also has the benefit of being factual. It's 940 00:59:34,880 --> 00:59:38,680 Speaker 1: it's boggas bunts and being everybody. That's that's all you 941 00:59:38,680 --> 00:59:42,520 Speaker 1: need to know. That's what it is. That Harry Potter, No, 942 00:59:42,720 --> 00:59:47,080 Speaker 1: it's fantastic, Mr Fox. It's ridiculous though. I mean, that's 943 00:59:47,280 --> 00:59:51,560 Speaker 1: we have to do an episode on this because we 944 00:59:51,560 --> 00:59:54,760 Speaker 1: we have to ask ourselves why this leak comes about. 945 00:59:54,760 --> 00:59:58,280 Speaker 1: When it comes about, Um, we have to ask ourselves, 946 00:59:59,080 --> 01:00:03,480 Speaker 1: what if any consequences will occur because these places will go, 947 01:00:03,800 --> 01:00:07,320 Speaker 1: these entities will go about on their merry way. It's 948 01:00:07,360 --> 01:00:09,920 Speaker 1: not and we're not saying, of course, like I was 949 01:00:09,960 --> 01:00:12,120 Speaker 1: thinking about this, I wanted to be fair to every 950 01:00:12,200 --> 01:00:16,640 Speaker 1: side involved. Think about um, think about the possible sea 951 01:00:16,720 --> 01:00:20,560 Speaker 1: level executives at international bank who don't want to go 952 01:00:20,600 --> 01:00:24,360 Speaker 1: along with this, but realize that their bosses are heavy 953 01:00:24,400 --> 01:00:28,880 Speaker 1: in with drug cartels or oligarchs, and you know, it goes. 954 01:00:29,080 --> 01:00:31,560 Speaker 1: It can very quickly go past the idea of oh, no, 955 01:00:31,720 --> 01:00:34,960 Speaker 1: my jobs on the line to holy crap, they know 956 01:00:35,120 --> 01:00:38,960 Speaker 1: where my children live. And I know that's not alarmists, 957 01:00:38,960 --> 01:00:43,400 Speaker 1: but that is very true, and I think, yeah, it's true. 958 01:00:43,520 --> 01:00:46,040 Speaker 1: So think about this, think about like, just to let 959 01:00:46,040 --> 01:00:48,160 Speaker 1: you know how unfair the situation is in the eyes 960 01:00:48,200 --> 01:00:51,040 Speaker 1: of the law in the Western abroad. Uh, Let's go 961 01:00:51,080 --> 01:00:53,760 Speaker 1: back to that example of what how the consequences of 962 01:00:53,800 --> 01:00:56,000 Speaker 1: your actions differ if you are a bank. You know, 963 01:00:56,080 --> 01:00:58,920 Speaker 1: if you're a bank, you go to court and you know, 964 01:00:59,040 --> 01:01:04,600 Speaker 1: you say you're on While I do not admit wrongdoing 965 01:01:04,960 --> 01:01:08,240 Speaker 1: in the unfortunate death of blah blah blah or the 966 01:01:08,240 --> 01:01:12,840 Speaker 1: theft of YadA, YadA, YadA. I do agree in the 967 01:01:12,920 --> 01:01:15,880 Speaker 1: interest of of you know, saving everybody time, I do 968 01:01:15,960 --> 01:01:19,120 Speaker 1: agree to a billion dollar fine. Uh. And also I 969 01:01:19,120 --> 01:01:22,040 Speaker 1: would like to file a motion your honor for you 970 01:01:22,080 --> 01:01:25,000 Speaker 1: to pay that billion dollar fine. Because if I'm too 971 01:01:25,040 --> 01:01:27,760 Speaker 1: big to fail, am I not too big to jail? 972 01:01:28,080 --> 01:01:30,360 Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Like that? That logic is 973 01:01:30,400 --> 01:01:34,640 Speaker 1: spooky and it works. Yeah. The other spooky logic here 974 01:01:34,920 --> 01:01:39,280 Speaker 1: is put yourself in the position of being a company 975 01:01:39,280 --> 01:01:44,040 Speaker 1: that literally sells money essentially. I mean, that's what your 976 01:01:44,040 --> 01:01:46,560 Speaker 1: company is, right. You bring in money so that you 977 01:01:46,560 --> 01:01:49,480 Speaker 1: can lend out money, and that's it. And you've got 978 01:01:49,960 --> 01:01:54,400 Speaker 1: a bunch of nameless, faceless individuals, which is the case. 979 01:01:54,480 --> 01:01:56,640 Speaker 1: It's in the case of a lot of these it's 980 01:01:57,400 --> 01:02:01,720 Speaker 1: um people who are trying to put money into the bank, 981 01:02:02,000 --> 01:02:05,040 Speaker 1: into a specific banking system. They don't have a name 982 01:02:05,120 --> 01:02:08,680 Speaker 1: identity associated with them, but they're trying to make massive 983 01:02:08,720 --> 01:02:13,760 Speaker 1: deposits into the bank. And how why do you Why 984 01:02:13,800 --> 01:02:16,320 Speaker 1: would you say no to that? Because you want to 985 01:02:16,360 --> 01:02:20,480 Speaker 1: be a good person. I mean, I hope that we 986 01:02:20,520 --> 01:02:23,120 Speaker 1: would say no to that, right, But in the end, 987 01:02:23,520 --> 01:02:27,920 Speaker 1: the system itself needs that kind of influx of a 988 01:02:27,960 --> 01:02:32,080 Speaker 1: million dollars here, twenty million dollars there, a billion dollars 989 01:02:32,120 --> 01:02:36,800 Speaker 1: over here in order to continue functioning with their pinkies 990 01:02:36,800 --> 01:02:42,800 Speaker 1: in their mouths. I mean, it's just it all makes 991 01:02:42,840 --> 01:02:44,800 Speaker 1: it all makes you feel gross, and you know what, 992 01:02:44,920 --> 01:02:51,040 Speaker 1: I can't wait to talk about it further. Yes, yes, 993 01:02:51,360 --> 01:02:55,240 Speaker 1: So we are keeping an eye on this, and I 994 01:02:55,280 --> 01:02:58,480 Speaker 1: think we we we we've shared here, should it hopefully 995 01:02:58,560 --> 01:03:05,320 Speaker 1: overall be somewhat in aspiring because social dilemma aside, technology outpas, 996 01:03:05,440 --> 01:03:08,280 Speaker 1: the evolution aside. What we have to remember is that 997 01:03:08,320 --> 01:03:11,160 Speaker 1: this is information. This feeds us and this can help 998 01:03:11,240 --> 01:03:16,640 Speaker 1: us make more informed, more prescient decisions in the future. 999 01:03:16,800 --> 01:03:18,520 Speaker 1: I think you know to your point, and Noll, I 1000 01:03:18,520 --> 01:03:21,440 Speaker 1: think they're going to be more Facebook leaks to your point, Matt, 1001 01:03:21,960 --> 01:03:24,280 Speaker 1: I think this is just the beginning of the finn 1002 01:03:24,280 --> 01:03:28,760 Speaker 1: Sech corruption story and the leaks. And uh, I don't 1003 01:03:28,760 --> 01:03:31,960 Speaker 1: know if we're gonna find any living thing on Venus, 1004 01:03:32,520 --> 01:03:37,280 Speaker 1: uh but right in the clouds. But if we do, 1005 01:03:37,960 --> 01:03:40,880 Speaker 1: how cool would it be? One thinks for sure we 1006 01:03:40,960 --> 01:03:44,560 Speaker 1: are going to be back with more strange news very soon, 1007 01:03:44,920 --> 01:03:47,600 Speaker 1: and we want your help. We want to hear from you. 1008 01:03:47,680 --> 01:03:50,880 Speaker 1: What do you think about Facebook leaks? Do you want 1009 01:03:50,920 --> 01:03:53,240 Speaker 1: to tell us on our Facebook page, because of course 1010 01:03:53,280 --> 01:03:56,600 Speaker 1: we have one. What do you think about finn sec uh? 1011 01:03:56,640 --> 01:03:59,439 Speaker 1: Do you work at a bank? What's your perspective on this? 1012 01:03:59,560 --> 01:04:01,400 Speaker 1: Is just this just c O B is a cost 1013 01:04:01,440 --> 01:04:06,200 Speaker 1: of doing business? Are we being too precious about the 1014 01:04:06,320 --> 01:04:09,000 Speaker 1: law as it's written? And what do you think about venus? 1015 01:04:09,040 --> 01:04:11,320 Speaker 1: What do you think the followed is? Does it matter 1016 01:04:11,520 --> 01:04:14,040 Speaker 1: if we find life on another planet? Is it just 1017 01:04:14,080 --> 01:04:17,440 Speaker 1: a cool merit badge? Does it warrant a rename? What 1018 01:04:17,520 --> 01:04:21,400 Speaker 1: do you think? Let us know. You can reach out 1019 01:04:21,440 --> 01:04:23,280 Speaker 1: to us in the ways that events have via the 1020 01:04:23,280 --> 01:04:25,680 Speaker 1: Facebook group, which is Who's what it gets crazy. You 1021 01:04:25,720 --> 01:04:27,840 Speaker 1: can do it on the social media is pretty much 1022 01:04:27,880 --> 01:04:30,320 Speaker 1: every social media that you can think of, where we 1023 01:04:30,360 --> 01:04:34,360 Speaker 1: are conspiracy stuff or conspiracy stuff show um, why not 1024 01:04:34,520 --> 01:04:37,200 Speaker 1: give us a call, leave us a voicemail and we'll 1025 01:04:37,200 --> 01:04:39,960 Speaker 1: tell them about that map. Sure, our number is one 1026 01:04:40,080 --> 01:04:44,440 Speaker 1: eight three three st d w y t K. Pick 1027 01:04:44,520 --> 01:04:47,680 Speaker 1: up your phone, call it right now. Say whatever you want. 1028 01:04:47,920 --> 01:04:51,040 Speaker 1: If you've got some cool input that's gonna change our 1029 01:04:51,480 --> 01:04:53,720 Speaker 1: minds about something, or it's gonna send us down a 1030 01:04:53,800 --> 01:04:56,640 Speaker 1: rabbit hole, that's probably your best option, or you know, 1031 01:04:56,680 --> 01:05:00,680 Speaker 1: if you're just gonna make us laugh, because as everybody 1032 01:05:00,720 --> 01:05:03,400 Speaker 1: needs that right now, please feel free to do so, 1033 01:05:03,640 --> 01:05:05,320 Speaker 1: but be sure and let us know if you don't 1034 01:05:05,360 --> 01:05:07,640 Speaker 1: want us to use your name, or if you're just 1035 01:05:07,680 --> 01:05:10,920 Speaker 1: in general cool with us using your voicemail on the show, 1036 01:05:11,200 --> 01:05:12,560 Speaker 1: or if you are okay with us using it, but 1037 01:05:12,600 --> 01:05:14,000 Speaker 1: you'd either us not use your name. Just just just be 1038 01:05:14,080 --> 01:05:17,040 Speaker 1: specific so that we know how to respectfully deal with 1039 01:05:17,120 --> 01:05:19,959 Speaker 1: your audio nugget that you leave us and if you're down, 1040 01:05:20,520 --> 01:05:23,240 Speaker 1: you might hear it on an episode of our weekly 1041 01:05:23,360 --> 01:05:28,120 Speaker 1: listener mail segment. Yes, so please leave us your audio nuggets. Um, 1042 01:05:28,240 --> 01:05:32,360 Speaker 1: we can't wait to go go through the They don't 1043 01:05:32,360 --> 01:05:34,880 Speaker 1: want to do those things, but how else can they 1044 01:05:34,920 --> 01:05:37,360 Speaker 1: reach out to us? We have a one way to 1045 01:05:37,400 --> 01:05:40,400 Speaker 1: reach out to us seven no matter what time of 1046 01:05:40,520 --> 01:05:43,280 Speaker 1: day it is, no matter where you are on or 1047 01:05:43,360 --> 01:05:46,360 Speaker 1: off the planet, can send us good old fashioned email 1048 01:05:46,400 --> 01:06:01,080 Speaker 1: where we are conspiracy at iHeart radio dot com m H. 1049 01:06:07,680 --> 01:06:09,760 Speaker 1: Stuff they Don't Want You to Know is a production 1050 01:06:09,800 --> 01:06:12,920 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, 1051 01:06:13,080 --> 01:06:15,920 Speaker 1: visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 1052 01:06:16,000 --> 01:06:17,280 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.