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Speaker 1: Hey everybody, Hey, hey, hey, welcome back to those show.

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Speaker 1: I hope you're doing great out there. Sing songy day.

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Speaker 1: I like to sing things. Are you singing all the time?

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Speaker 1: We both are, it feels I don't know. I am

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Speaker 1: definitely not a musical theater person, as I believe we've

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Speaker 1: talked about before you and it does seem unrealistic to

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Speaker 1: have people break out into a perfectly choreographed dance number

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Speaker 1: with perfectly rhyming lyrics about exactly how they're feeling. However,

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Speaker 1: many times in my own life you do exactly. I

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Speaker 1: do wish very much for a perfect number. Yeah, make

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Speaker 1: up feeling good to have your own stretch and jump

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Speaker 1: out of bed and another beautiful morning and a beautiful day.

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Speaker 1: First of all, the first thing in the morning, you

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Speaker 1: have never felt that way. It's the worst time of

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Speaker 1: day for you. The least likely time for you to

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Speaker 1: jump up and start singing is first thing in the

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Speaker 1: Morning's true, I guess something in more like nine pm.

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Speaker 1: Then you're just dancing, and I'm like, ah, the night

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Speaker 1: time is the right time to do the things you

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Speaker 1: want to do. The night time is the right time. Two. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: let's see, I almost thought you guys were going to

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Speaker 1: get a taste for when I got around here, but

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Speaker 1: she choked, choked with the mic on well, all right,

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Speaker 1: I would love to sing all day here, but we've

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Speaker 1: got a big, fat episode today, so we should probably

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Speaker 1: get straight into it. This one was suggested by a

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Speaker 1: woman named Barbara Banks, who's my own wonderful mother awesome

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Speaker 1: friend of the show as well, and she's the best,

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Speaker 1: And she sent a link for this story which names

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Speaker 1: we definitely heard, and it was also sent to us

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Speaker 1: by Allison Oyster. Yeah, Allison um had also reached out

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Speaker 1: after suggesting this episode because Allison speaks Italian and after

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Speaker 1: listening to the Carlo Ponti Sophia Loren episode, wanted to

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Speaker 1: let us know about the name del Bagno, because you

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Speaker 1: had said, of course, being of Italian heritage yourself, that

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Speaker 1: you could have had a cool name like del Bagno.

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Speaker 1: It's my grandmother's maiden name, that's right, but instead she

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Speaker 1: married a Banks. It's kind of like a boring name.

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Speaker 1: But Allison writes, I just wanted to let you guys

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Speaker 1: know that I speak Italian and del Bagno literally translates

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Speaker 1: to from the bathroom, sorry to pop your balloon. Elie

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Speaker 1: also the letters G n o I pronounced neo, so

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Speaker 1: it would be del bonno. Okay, fair, yes, And I

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Speaker 1: brought this up to my dad and he said, well,

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Speaker 1: not New Jersey. It's not just where my family was from.

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Speaker 1: So in Jersey it was del bagno, the Jersey pronunciation.

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Speaker 1: You say the G. He also says it's it also

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Speaker 1: translates to of the bath, not necessarily bathroom. And there's

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Speaker 1: there's even towns in Italy named like Banjo Vignoni, which

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Speaker 1: is like a bath town, you know, where they had

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Speaker 1: these public bath houses and things like that. So so

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Speaker 1: it's not strictly toilet related. Do you think it's like um,

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Speaker 1: when you were named Smith or Candler or something, or

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Speaker 1: it's like you run the bath house, so you're del

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Speaker 1: Bano maybe so or something. Maybe we were in the

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Speaker 1: bath house or maybe we just were always taking a poop.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. They're like, man, those family down the street,

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Speaker 1: just constantly at the toilet, more like Gioseppe delbom. Al Right, well,

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Speaker 1: thank you Alison though for reaching out that was that

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Speaker 1: was a fun point to make, and also thank you

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Speaker 1: for adding to the suggestion for Abilard and Heloise to

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Speaker 1: talk about today. Now, this is one of those classic

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Speaker 1: historical love stories full of passion and danger. These are

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Speaker 1: two lovers who fell madly in love and suffered terrible

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Speaker 1: consequences as a result. And like we said, this is

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Speaker 1: a big, fat story from medieval France that just has

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Speaker 1: a lot to it. So I say we just get

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Speaker 1: going and jump right in. Yeah, let's go for it. Hey,

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Speaker 1: let French come listen. Well, Elia and Diana got some

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Speaker 1: stories to tell. There's no match making, all romantic tips.

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Speaker 1: It's just about ridiculous relationships. A lever, it might be

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Speaker 1: any type of person at all. And abstract concept are

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Speaker 1: a concrete wall. But if there's a story where the

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Speaker 1: second clans ridiculous roles a production of iHeart Radio, all right.

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Speaker 1: Peter or Pierre of course at the time, but in

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Speaker 1: all literature he's just referred to as Peter. Peter la

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Speaker 1: Palais was born in ten seventy nine in western France

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Speaker 1: to a French family of minor nobility. He was a

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Speaker 1: fast learner, and his father encouraged him to become an

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Speaker 1: academic rather than joining the military as he had done.

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Speaker 1: Peter was a master of dialectic philosophy, which is this

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Speaker 1: method of philosophical discourse where people with different points of

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Speaker 1: view give reasoned arguments to establish some sort of objective truth. Uh.

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Speaker 1: This is kind of like debate, which is obviously the

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Speaker 1: more common form of this sort of discussion. But in

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Speaker 1: dialectic discussion, there's not supposed to be any emotional appeals

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Speaker 1: or any rhetoric that might skew the conversation into subjective territory.

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Speaker 1: So just very objective, emotionless probably pretty pedantic conversations, real

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Speaker 1: fun stuff. Sounds kind of like peer reviewed science articles

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Speaker 1: or something where you can't just be like, well, I've

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Speaker 1: just I've been working on this for a long time. Guys,

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Speaker 1: come on, support my hypothesis. You can't really do that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: just real hard, cold, objective truths trying to reach a point.

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Speaker 1: So Peter spent his early academic years wandering around France,

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Speaker 1: splitting his time between learning and debating. So it's super

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Speaker 1: fun time. I'm sure no one could wait for him

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Speaker 1: to show up in town. Oh yeah, Like he goes

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Speaker 1: to a tavern, right, and he like kicks open these

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Speaker 1: saloon doors, and like old philosophers are like scrambling, they

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Speaker 1: die over tables to hide it's Peter la Palais, And

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Speaker 1: he says, who here is man enough to tell me

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Speaker 1: how God's divine oniscians is compatible with the belief that

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Speaker 1: we each have the free will to make our own decisions. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And some cowboy gets up spurs a jangling, Who's like, well,

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Speaker 1: I reckon human beings possess rational capacities which other animals

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Speaker 1: do not, and as those capacities are immaterial, they are

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Speaker 1: not governed by physical laws, and therefore do not directly

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Speaker 1: interfere with God's plans for the material university. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: the bartenders like, ah, you too, better take this outside.

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Speaker 1: I ain't having no debates in my tavern. And Peter says, well,

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Speaker 1: this is no debate, this is a dialect. And everybody groans.

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Speaker 1: They throw shot glasses, very pedantic conversations, Peter the pedant

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Speaker 1: until they get around eleven hundred. When he's in his

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Speaker 1: early twenties. Peter ended up in Paris and changed his

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Speaker 1: name to Abillard for debatable reasons. One story says that

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Speaker 1: a mathematics professor who thought Peter was overloading himself with

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Speaker 1: different subjects called him by Allard, meaning lick lard, as

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Speaker 1: in he wants to keep licking the fat even though

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Speaker 1: he's full. And after he mastered geometry and arithmetic, he

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Speaker 1: was like, I'm not a lick lard, I'm a have lard.

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Speaker 1: And he changed the nickname to Abelard. Oh, those clever

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Speaker 1: medieval philosophers, hilarious, what a nickname? What a story of

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Speaker 1: your nickname? Because Peter was full of knowledge, but he

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Speaker 1: was definitely also full of himself. He once called himself

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Speaker 1: the greatest philosopher of his age, and even today scholars

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Speaker 1: are like, wow, what a dick. But I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: he's kind of right. So what are we going to do?

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Speaker 1: What's sort of one of the things you don't say

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Speaker 1: about yourself, like somebody else's say that about if you

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Speaker 1: know a barrel Street was wrockgrounding, like I'm the greatest

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Speaker 1: American actress. I mean, people would be like, sure, Meryl Bio,

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Speaker 1: she is pretty rude to point it out, Well, are

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Speaker 1: you gonna go tell her she's not exactly? Um, So

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Speaker 1: we're not going to get too bogged down in Peter's

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Speaker 1: actual philosophy here, because this will turn into a long,

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Speaker 1: surely fascinating but tediously intellectual episode. Um. But needless to say,

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Speaker 1: this was a guy who knew he was smart, he

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Speaker 1: thought he was right, and he was probably very frustrating

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Speaker 1: to argue with. He attended the great Cathedral school of

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Speaker 1: Notre Dame de Perry, but this was a few decades

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Speaker 1: before the construction began of the Notre Dame that we

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Speaker 1: know and love today. But it wasn't the same spot

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Speaker 1: on that little island in the sin in the middle

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Speaker 1: of Paris. Abelard was always out performing his teachers, and

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Speaker 1: he would even up end some of their teachings, like

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Speaker 1: if they were they had a particular philosophy that was

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Speaker 1: kind of the rule of the time that everyone was

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Speaker 1: using to go by. He threw it out. He came in,

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Speaker 1: debated them, totally humiliated them, and his new philosophies ended

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Speaker 1: up becoming kind of the talk of the town. So, uh,

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Speaker 1: everybody kind of thought he was hot ship. They all

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Speaker 1: really liked him, except, of course, his predecessors who were

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Speaker 1: teaching him. I was about to say, accept as teachers

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Speaker 1: who are like um. Actually he went full Anakin Skywalker

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Speaker 1: on these guys and just like I am the master. Now.

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Speaker 1: Once he dominated dialectic philosophy, he decided to switch to

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Speaker 1: theology so he moved out to Leon and started learning

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Speaker 1: under Anselm of Leon, who's a famous biblical philosopher at

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Speaker 1: the time. But Abillard was bored by his lectures, so

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Speaker 1: he started his own, once again against his teacher's wishes.

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Speaker 1: It's like the opposite of a teacher's pet teacher's monster

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Speaker 1: Onselm forbade him from teaching in Leon, so Abillard moved

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Speaker 1: back to Paris. By eleven fifteen, he became master of

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Speaker 1: the Cathedral school of Notre Dame, and air he crossed

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Speaker 1: paths with the most well educated and intelligent woman in

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Speaker 1: the city of Paris, Helloise. Now Hallowe's exact birthdate and

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Speaker 1: family background are lost to history, but um we do

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Speaker 1: know that she was born around making her about fifteen

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Speaker 1: to twenty years younger than Abelard, and she was about

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Speaker 1: seventeen years old when the two of them first met.

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Speaker 1: I always think this is interesting because we've been seeing

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Speaker 1: more and more in our research for this show that,

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Speaker 1: of course, you get men's history much more easily than

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Speaker 1: you get women's history. You know what I mean, definitely,

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Speaker 1: And I think part of that is due to record

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Speaker 1: keeping of the day, and part of that is due

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Speaker 1: to like, who have historians been digging up to look

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Speaker 1: at this whole time? I read that of this story.

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Speaker 1: One of the reasons that Helloise has been getting a

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Speaker 1: lot of tension in the last couple of decades is

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Speaker 1: because historians were specifically trying to balance out women to

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Speaker 1: men in terms of what we have history of who

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Speaker 1: we study that kind of thing. Well, yeah, it would

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Speaker 1: certainly be nice to know a little bit more about

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Speaker 1: the ladies of history. So we do know that Heloise

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Speaker 1: was raised by nuns at the convent of St. Marie

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Speaker 1: in Argentoy, not far from Paris, but we're not sure

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Speaker 1: exactly why or how she got there, but she was

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Speaker 1: a star student. She kind of reminds me of sort

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Speaker 1: Juana de la Cruz in that episode we did about her.

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Speaker 1: She was a nun who studied and learned and just

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Speaker 1: mastered every language and literature and hello, he is very similar.

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Speaker 1: She was fluent in Latin, Greek, and Hebrew, and before

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Speaker 1: she ever even moved to Paris, she was known as

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Speaker 1: a prodigy in grammar and rhetoric, and she was this

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Speaker 1: incredible writer with a reputation for her intelligence and her insight.

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Speaker 1: In eleven fifteen ish, she left the abbey in Argentoy

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Speaker 1: to move in with her uncle Fulbert, who was the

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Speaker 1: canon of Notre Dame Cathedral. A canon is someone who

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Speaker 1: holds an administrative position within a cathedral, so it's a

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Speaker 1: pretty powerful position to have, and he continued to teach her.

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Speaker 1: She continued to crush it, and all kinds of abbots

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Speaker 1: and bishops and priests and nuns and any sort of intellectuals,

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Speaker 1: anybody who cared about education heard about this girl, and

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Speaker 1: much like sor Juana de la Cruz, wanted to come

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Speaker 1: meet her, and like, I just got to spend time

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Speaker 1: with this an intelligent woman. I don't know, what a

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Speaker 1: fascinating thing. It's like going to the zoo. They're like, oh, yes,

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Speaker 1: I have this road trip planned out of we got

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Speaker 1: the three headed calf, We've got an intelligent woman. I

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Speaker 1: think there's a giant thimble, world's biggest ball of twine exactly.

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Speaker 1: We're going to see them all because of their individual reputations.

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Speaker 1: It's likely that Heloise had heard of abial Art, but

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Speaker 1: it's definite that Abelard had heard of Helloise, and he

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Speaker 1: really wanted to meet her, just like everybody else. So

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Speaker 1: it's kind of hard to say who made the first

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Speaker 1: move between the two of them. Around thirty two, Abelard

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Speaker 1: wrote one of the first autobiographical works in medieval Western Europe,

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Speaker 1: called Historia Calamatatum or the History of My Calamities, which

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Speaker 1: is autobiographical titles go pretty good, let me take this

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Speaker 1: off the shelf. It's written in letter format. It's all

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Speaker 1: about his life up to around his mid fifties, and

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Speaker 1: he talks about his views on women and learning, and

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Speaker 1: church and state, and how persecuted he always felt by

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Speaker 1: his peers. At one point he likened his struggles to Jesus,

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Speaker 1: so as we said, a little full of himself. Now

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Speaker 1: he says that he had this whole plan for premeditated

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Speaker 1: seduction of Heloise, that he had set up the whole

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Speaker 1: thing because he wanted to get with her. But in

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Speaker 1: her letters from the time, Helloise refers to herself as

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Speaker 1: the instigator, choosing him out of the thousands of men

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Speaker 1: who came through Notre Dame to meet her. But either way,

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Speaker 1: he meets her and he's like, this girl is brilliant.

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Speaker 1: In all of his writings, he focuses more on her

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Speaker 1: intelligence and talents than he ever gets into about her looks.

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Speaker 1: He's like, Oh, Helloise, she's just she's got this this

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Speaker 1: brain that's just oh and these and these big, bouncing,

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Speaker 1: beautiful words. You know, I hate to see her go,

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Speaker 1: but I love to read a brilliantly written leather from

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Speaker 1: her after she leaves. He wrote in his autobiography quote

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Speaker 1: of no mean beauty. She stood out above all by

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Speaker 1: reason of her abundant knowledge of letters. But Abalard was

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Speaker 1: one guy in a long line of people trying to

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Speaker 1: spend time with Helloise. So he needed to figure out

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Speaker 1: how to cut to the front. So he puts his

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Speaker 1: big brain to work, and he goes to uncle Fulbear

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Speaker 1: and he's just like, oh man, you know, it's so

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Speaker 1: hard to study in my place these days, a building

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Speaker 1: so loud, clanking pipes. You know, I got these chatty

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Speaker 1: calving neighbors won't shut up. There's this cat just me

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Speaker 1: owls right outside my window every day. Ah. You know, honestly,

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Speaker 1: it's not really the war. It's not really worth a rent,

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Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. I mean so pensive. I

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Speaker 1: wish there was just some other simple flution that I

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Speaker 1: you know what, what's if I came to live with

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Speaker 1: you Fullbear? And like, instead of paying rent, I could

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Speaker 1: do something useful for you, like I don't know, tutor

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Speaker 1: Helloise privately in a private room. And Faullbear is like,

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Speaker 1: what a brilliant idea young man. You truly are one

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Speaker 1: of the most brilliant minds of our time. And so yeah,

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Speaker 1: he let him come to live with them. And Helloise

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Speaker 1: would not have been allowed at university at the time,

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Speaker 1: because you know, she's a woman. You can't let women

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Speaker 1: into the university building. Um. She had also aged out

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Speaker 1: of the convent education without actually becoming a nun, so

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Speaker 1: kind of the only option was private tutorship for her

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Speaker 1: at this point. So it's likely full Bear was probably

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Speaker 1: already thinking about that, and it's kind of like a

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Speaker 1: perfect situation for Abelard to sweep in and be like,

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Speaker 1: I could do it. Abelard wrote, quote her uncle love

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Speaker 1: for her was equalled only by his desire that she

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Speaker 1: should have the best education which he could possibly procure

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Speaker 1: for her. So sneaky Abillard exploited that to spend more

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Speaker 1: time with Heloise alone. So they start studying like high schoolers, right, like, hey,

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Speaker 1: uncle Fulbert, We're going to go study in my room

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Speaker 1: some more. And he's like, again, that's the third time

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Speaker 1: you've studied today. I'm so glad you're learning so much

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Speaker 1: from such a generous and intelligent tutor. But of course

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Speaker 1: they only ever got like a page or two in

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Speaker 1: before they start getting flirty. Avalard wrote, quote, her studies

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Speaker 1: allowed us to withdraw in private as love desired, and then,

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Speaker 1: with our books open before us, more words of love

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Speaker 1: than of reading passed between us, and more kissing than teaching.

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Speaker 1: And then it went from flirty to handsey, as he

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Speaker 1: wrote quote, my hands strayed oftener to her bosom than

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Speaker 1: to the pages. Love drew our eyes to look on

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Speaker 1: each other more than reading kept them on our texts. Wow,

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Speaker 1: he's right up groping her, Okay, she was probably like, yeah, right,

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Speaker 1: So yeah, he saw her every single day, hours at

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Speaker 1: a time. They were clearly making out, getting busy a lot.

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Speaker 1: But they were also slets for knowledge, okay. So they

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Speaker 1: did continue to take lessons, They continued to be wowed

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Speaker 1: by each other's intelligence, probably also a little bit of

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Speaker 1: a turn on for the other. In the letters of

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Speaker 1: Abillard and Heloise, author Pierre Baale writes, quote, it is

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Speaker 1: no difficult matter to make a girl of eighteen fall

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Speaker 1: in love, and Abillard, having such wit and agreeable humor,

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Speaker 1: must needs make a greater progress in her affections than

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Speaker 1: she did in the lessons which he taught her, so

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Speaker 1: that in a short time she fell so much in

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Speaker 1: love with him that she could deny him nothing. Her

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00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:58,080
Speaker 1: uncle even had a house in the country that they

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Speaker 1: would sometimes go to under the pre hints that they

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Speaker 1: needed somewhere more focused for them to study, and of

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Speaker 1: course that just turned into them breaking in every room

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Speaker 1: in the house sexy style. I'm picturing their dirty talk

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Speaker 1: is like real philosophical discourse. Oh yeah, like, oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: fuck me, Like the objective nature of reality is questionable.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, I wanna. I want to do bad

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Speaker 1: things to you, but but it's questionable whether bad things

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Speaker 1: can exist at all if there's an all powerful and

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Speaker 1: just God in control of our actions and decisions. But

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Speaker 1: if God is in control of our actions, then I

314
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Speaker 1: guess it's God's will that I'm going to tie it

315
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Speaker 1: at the bed posts and make you forget your own name.

316
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Speaker 1: Although we will just say there is no historical evidence

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Speaker 1: that either Heloise or Avalard liked to be tied up,

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Speaker 1: So this is all you know speculation station. Abalard wrote

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Speaker 1: that he compared them to starving people who were suddenly

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Speaker 1: given a feast because they were just doing it so much,

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Speaker 1: and his other pursuits started to suffer. His public performances

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Speaker 1: were terrible, His lessons at school got distracted and repetitive,

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Speaker 1: and he showed up less and less for his own classes,

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Speaker 1: and people started to guess why they were having such

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Speaker 1: a hot time on their own. They let their guard down,

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Speaker 1: and soon everybody's whispering about it. Bail rights that quote.

327
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Speaker 1: Only honest full Bear, under whose nose all this was done,

328
00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:29,879
Speaker 1: was the last man that heard anything of it. People

329
00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:32,760
Speaker 1: were out here telling Full Bear every day, Hey, you

330
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Speaker 1: know your niece is hooking up with that teacher roommate

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Speaker 1: you've got. And he was just like no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: no no. They go into their room and they locked

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Speaker 1: the doors for hours on end to study. I'm telling you,

334
00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:47,800
Speaker 1: they are enthralled with their lessons so much that they're

335
00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:52,240
Speaker 1: always just screaming passionately about how much they love learning.

336
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Speaker 1: I can hear through the walls day in and day out.

337
00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:59,639
Speaker 1: I'm telling you, tell the class pretty it's almost orgasmic, really.

338
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Speaker 1: But eventually he starts to kind of catch on. He

339
00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:08,320
Speaker 1: starts to think, Okay, maybe there's something to all these rumors,

340
00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:11,800
Speaker 1: but I'm going to prove them all wrong. So he

341
00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:14,919
Speaker 1: watches Eblard and Hello. He's like a hawk day in

342
00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:17,919
Speaker 1: and day out. And one day he decides to do

343
00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:22,800
Speaker 1: the old parent trick of accidentally walking in on one

344
00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:26,320
Speaker 1: of their study sessions, like hey, I made you guys

345
00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:30,760
Speaker 1: some sandwich. Oh my goodness, you know, and they were

346
00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:33,080
Speaker 1: caught in the act and they jump up, they start

347
00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:37,160
Speaker 1: pulling their pants on, or their chemise or whatever undergarments

348
00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:41,159
Speaker 1: she had to wear, probably like oh mom, oh my gosh,

349
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Speaker 1: great anatomy lesson today. Well done, such a brilliant student.

350
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Speaker 1: We really focused on the busloms today. But next time

351
00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:57,800
Speaker 1: it's downstairs. All of the different ways to examine the

352
00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:03,960
Speaker 1: anatomy come, sack comes. You know. A scientist first tools

353
00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:09,360
Speaker 1: are his hands, the second is his mouth. His other

354
00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:11,720
Speaker 1: tools as well. We'll get to that next week. To

355
00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:17,000
Speaker 1: that and full Bear was like so mad that he

356
00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:20,359
Speaker 1: barely spoke to either of them. I'm sure he's feeling

357
00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:23,399
Speaker 1: a tad bit embarrassed. He's remembering all the times he

358
00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:26,680
Speaker 1: was like, you're crazy. Those friends you're crazy. They would

359
00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:29,280
Speaker 1: never if that. If they're if they're screwing in there,

360
00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:32,960
Speaker 1: I will eat my hat. He starts like putting salt

361
00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:37,560
Speaker 1: on his back. He basically just said, I'm not happy.

362
00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:41,080
Speaker 1: It's just like the understatement of the year. And Avalard

363
00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:45,359
Speaker 1: and Heloise both knew, Oh, it's gonna get a lot

364
00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:49,879
Speaker 1: worse than that. How much worse we'll find out right

365
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Speaker 1: after this welcome back to the show, Everybody so full.

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00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:02,280
Speaker 1: Bear had barged in on Helloise and Abialard and he

367
00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:05,560
Speaker 1: was just furious and devastated, and the next day he

368
00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:08,280
Speaker 1: kicked Abillard out of the house. I'm done with this.

369
00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:10,639
Speaker 1: You're screwing my knee. So I'm supposed to take care

370
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Speaker 1: of her. I let you. I let you into my home.

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Speaker 1: You know, I give you, I feed you every night. Rent,

372
00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:20,359
Speaker 1: I trust you. You're my friend, sleeping with this girl

373
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Speaker 1: out there telling everybody you would never do something like that,

374
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Speaker 1: making me looks like an idiot. But Abialard had a plan.

375
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Speaker 1: He was not going to take this lying down. He

376
00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:31,280
Speaker 1: still needed to see Halloise, and this brings us to

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Speaker 1: this episode side piece, Can I help you? So, Abialard

378
00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:43,040
Speaker 1: got in touch with Heloise's maid, a woman named Agaton,

379
00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:46,440
Speaker 1: and she was described as a pretty hot little thing,

380
00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:49,720
Speaker 1: you know, she was. She was a looker. I think

381
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Speaker 1: Bail said that she she would have made any man's

382
00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:57,320
Speaker 1: head turn. Wow, hot maid. Right, So Abillard offered her

383
00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:04,720
Speaker 1: money to sneak correspondence between him and Halloise, and Agaton said, yeah, yeah, sure,

384
00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:09,200
Speaker 1: I'll do it, but you gotta take me as your mistress.

385
00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:11,840
Speaker 1: What she told him she had been in love with

386
00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:15,280
Speaker 1: him this whole time, and now she was blackmailing him

387
00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:21,000
Speaker 1: into sleeping with her. Basically, damn. Abalard apparently didn't say anything.

388
00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:24,919
Speaker 1: He just turned around and walked away, like I'm not

389
00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:28,320
Speaker 1: even dignifying that with a response. Damn. Agaton was like

390
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:31,879
Speaker 1: that hurts that, that that hurt my feelings. Wellard was

391
00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:34,520
Speaker 1: just totally devoted to Halloise. And I mean like things

392
00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:36,840
Speaker 1: weren't dramatic enough, you know, like he didn't need this

393
00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:39,520
Speaker 1: extra level of crazy on top of everything else. Yeah,

394
00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:42,040
Speaker 1: I see that He's a smart guy. He's not trying

395
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:44,800
Speaker 1: to okay, and can you imagine fullbear? You like, what

396
00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:48,080
Speaker 1: do you sleep with my niece? And come on, man,

397
00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:52,080
Speaker 1: and I trust no one. So yeah, Agaton is pissed

398
00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:54,760
Speaker 1: that she got rejected by this guy after her perfectly

399
00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:59,679
Speaker 1: reasonable proposal. It's just a little blackmail, come on. So

400
00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:02,760
Speaker 1: she immediately went to full Bear and sang like a canary.

401
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:06,520
Speaker 1: She said, bet dubs. Avalard totally tried to bribe me

402
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:09,399
Speaker 1: to get him and Heloise together. So what you're gonna do?

403
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:11,800
Speaker 1: And Full Bear is like, oh my god, thank you

404
00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:13,399
Speaker 1: so much for telling me. I'm gonna give you some

405
00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:17,360
Speaker 1: extra money to keep them apart. So basically the opposite

406
00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:20,119
Speaker 1: of what Aard do. And she still got her money,

407
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:21,960
Speaker 1: and she still got her money. She didn't get her

408
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:26,760
Speaker 1: man though, Sorry girl. So Abalard goes to Helloise is

409
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:31,400
Speaker 1: singing instructor and offers him the same bribe, and this

410
00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:34,679
Speaker 1: guy was totally into it. He sent letters between them

411
00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:37,800
Speaker 1: where they arranged to meet after Abalard climbed over the

412
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:41,440
Speaker 1: garden wall at night very Romeo and Juliet, and when

413
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:44,520
Speaker 1: he came to see her, she gave him news neither

414
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:49,640
Speaker 1: of them were expecting she was pregnant. What who could

415
00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:53,359
Speaker 1: this have happened? Should be the constant sex were constantly

416
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:58,560
Speaker 1: having consummated pants, so unexpected. I know She's like, I know,

417
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:00,320
Speaker 1: we haven't gotten to this part of the book, get

418
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:05,960
Speaker 1: but how are babies mats? So he came up with

419
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:09,320
Speaker 1: a plan. Abillard had a sister or possibly a brother

420
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:12,399
Speaker 1: by some accounts, but a sibling anyway, in Brittany in

421
00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:16,040
Speaker 1: western France, and he's like, let's sneak you out when

422
00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:18,879
Speaker 1: your uncle's not around, and you can go live with

423
00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:21,520
Speaker 1: my sibling until the baby is born. And she's a

424
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:24,960
Speaker 1: little apprehensive about this, so Abelard promised her that he

425
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:28,399
Speaker 1: would marry her. He's he's into it, he wanted it,

426
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:29,960
Speaker 1: he knew was the right thing to do. He's like,

427
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:31,680
Speaker 1: I love you, You're about to have my baby. Let's

428
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:35,480
Speaker 1: do this thing. And so he was absolutely stunned when

429
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:38,920
Speaker 1: she said, uh no, I'm not going to do that.

430
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:42,080
Speaker 1: Bail writes that this was really shocking and shows something

431
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:45,160
Speaker 1: really special about Heloise. Women at the time who were

432
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:49,960
Speaker 1: quote engaged in love intrigues, as he calls it, intrigues

433
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:55,000
Speaker 1: pretty much relied on three potential outcomes of these affairs.

434
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:58,560
Speaker 1: They either thought that they wouldn't get pregnant fingers crossed,

435
00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:01,679
Speaker 1: or that if they did, they would just hide the

436
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 1: pregnancy from the world, or best case scenario, they would

437
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:07,560
Speaker 1: just end up marrying this guy, you know, whether they

438
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:10,560
Speaker 1: got pregnant or not get married, and all would be.

439
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:12,479
Speaker 1: She wouldn't have to worry about it anymore now if

440
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:15,840
Speaker 1: I got pregnant at school, you know. But Helloise had

441
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:18,480
Speaker 1: a passion so strong for Avalard that she didn't care

442
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:22,120
Speaker 1: about her honor a reputation. She felt that him marrying

443
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 1: her would destroy his reputation and keep him from being

444
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:28,119
Speaker 1: able to advance in the church, especially because the church

445
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:31,359
Speaker 1: was really beginning to forbid marriage for anybody working in

446
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:33,800
Speaker 1: the higher orders of the clergy, which was definitely a

447
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:36,960
Speaker 1: potential direction for Abelard to be going. So she didn't

448
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 1: want his career to story, but she also didn't want

449
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:42,399
Speaker 1: to be the girl who destroyed his career. Abalard wrote,

450
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:46,200
Speaker 1: quote what penalties, she said, with the world right demand

451
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:48,600
Speaker 1: of her if she should rob it of so shining

452
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:51,680
Speaker 1: a light, you know, like me, so shine a light,

453
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:56,119
Speaker 1: he said. Those were her words. So Abelard does agree

454
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 1: to like drop the marriage thing. And one day, when

455
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:01,200
Speaker 1: Philbear was gone, she just guys herself as a nun

456
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:04,280
Speaker 1: and snuck off for Brittany to stay with Abalard's sister.

457
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:07,680
Speaker 1: And I will say not to contradict Peter Baale, who

458
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 1: is surely a more learned man than I. But there

459
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:15,640
Speaker 1: have been herbs used to terminate a pregnancy. Dawn of time.

460
00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:19,639
Speaker 1: Abortion is nothing new. Was a fourth option, Yeah, there's

461
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:23,080
Speaker 1: definitely a fourth option, and not many women, you know,

462
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:26,920
Speaker 1: weren't into it. It's certainly painful. It was not guaranteed

463
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:29,560
Speaker 1: that work, but there were plenty of women who took

464
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:31,800
Speaker 1: part in it. It's one of the reasons midwives were

465
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:36,359
Speaker 1: often you know, uh, demonized, I guess by by people

466
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:39,119
Speaker 1: because they were women who understood that and knew how

467
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 1: to make that herbal treatment and would actually give you

468
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 1: that option, but not not an option for Hello, he's

469
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:48,320
Speaker 1: at any rate not something she considered that we know of.

470
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 1: But I just wanted to say it is historical precedent

471
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:55,600
Speaker 1: for abortion goes back many, many, many, many, many many generations. Right. Honestly,

472
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 1: it's funny thinking of you know, they didn't have phones

473
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:00,280
Speaker 1: back then. It's not like Abalard could have called up

474
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:02,159
Speaker 1: his sister and been like, hey, my girlfriends come and

475
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:05,440
Speaker 1: she's like she just gonna show up one day. She's

476
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:09,359
Speaker 1: like some pregnant lady says she's friends with your brother.

477
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:14,000
Speaker 1: She's like, oh, another one of Abelard's students showed up.

478
00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:18,400
Speaker 1: She's got like a room full of young girls. No, no, no, no,

479
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:23,800
Speaker 1: that would be funny though, oh another student day. Abelard

480
00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:27,359
Speaker 1: straight up thought that after Helloise gave birth she would

481
00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:29,760
Speaker 1: be more into the idea of getting married. I mean,

482
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 1: a baby is a huge reality check. And he also

483
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:35,440
Speaker 1: really thought that he had to make this all right

484
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:38,040
Speaker 1: in some way. So as soon as she was settled

485
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:40,880
Speaker 1: in Brittany, he went back to talk to uncle Fulbar.

486
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 1: Now uncle Fulbart had been totally grief stricken that Helloise

487
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 1: was gone. He really cared about her, and he felt

488
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 1: very betrayed by Abelard taking advantage of his generosity of

489
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:54,920
Speaker 1: letting him live there, rent free and everything to sneak

490
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,000
Speaker 1: around with her behind his back and knock her up.

491
00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:02,520
Speaker 1: And so when Abelarde showed up and was like, hey, listen,

492
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 1: I'm sorry for sneaking your niece away, but funny story,

493
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 1: it's because she's pregnant and it's mine, Nancy, and faull

494
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:17,479
Speaker 1: Bear went off. He lost his mind. He's shouting and

495
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 1: screaming at him. Bail rights quote. All the affronts, reproaches

496
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:26,840
Speaker 1: and menaces that could be thought of were heaped upon Abillard.

497
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 1: So he's taken a lot of verbal abuse there for

498
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:32,440
Speaker 1: a minute, and he just sat there. He took it quietly.

499
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 1: He's nodding along like, uh huh, yep, I did do that.

500
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:40,480
Speaker 1: I am a terrible master. Say yes, yep, that's me. Yep.

501
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:43,120
Speaker 1: Oh god, I'd be mad too. I'll be mad too,

502
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 1: trust me. So after Fullbear is like out of breath,

503
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 1: he's like tired. He plopped down on a chair and

504
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:53,440
Speaker 1: mopped his forehead and he finally says, okay, well you

505
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 1: got to marry her now, And Abillard thinks about how

506
00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 1: hell Louise is going to react to that, and he says, ok,

507
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:04,200
Speaker 1: a cool, no problem, but how about we get married

508
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:09,880
Speaker 1: in secret? And full Bear begrudgingly agrees after Abalard points out,

509
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 1: you know, I'm a disgrace for all this sneaking around

510
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:18,760
Speaker 1: I've been doing. Everybody knows about me and Helloise. Um,

511
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 1: if I marry Helloise in public, that means you're going

512
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:24,080
Speaker 1: to be related to me, the disgrace, which means you're

513
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:26,480
Speaker 1: a disgrace, So that would be bad for you. Actually,

514
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 1: this is all about you. I'm thinking about you. My shame,

515
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:33,520
Speaker 1: your shame. We don't want that. Yeah, so full Bear

516
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:36,360
Speaker 1: was like, Okay, there's a lot in that, I guess,

517
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 1: so I'll fine, we can do it in secret. Ever,

518
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:42,560
Speaker 1: the master of debate that he really was. That's that's

519
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 1: one of the things of them is every time he

520
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:46,120
Speaker 1: gets in a room with somebody, things go the way

521
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:49,400
Speaker 1: he wants. Now here's my question about that. Was he

522
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:52,000
Speaker 1: very good at it? Or would he just never stop

523
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:55,600
Speaker 1: talking until you're agreed with him? Finally you're like, okay, fine,

524
00:30:55,760 --> 00:31:00,080
Speaker 1: you're right, get out of my house. I think you

525
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 1: could definitely propose that to historians and see if they

526
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 1: will accept it as a new I just know that

527
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 1: where you're like, I don't think you're right, but I

528
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:10,440
Speaker 1: am not ready to sit here for the amount of

529
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:12,200
Speaker 1: time it's going to take me to talk you down

530
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 1: from this mountain. I think we're related to some of them. Yeah,

531
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 1: So of course Helloise isn't happy about this. She had

532
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:22,000
Speaker 1: said I don't want to get married. That's not my thing.

533
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:25,400
Speaker 1: It doesn't sound cool, and that her dad and boyfriend

534
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 1: made an arrangement, and you can see where Abalard was like,

535
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:30,800
Speaker 1: but it'll be secret, so it's a kid, no one

536
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 1: will know. It won't hurt my reputation, everything will be fine.

537
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:36,880
Speaker 1: But in addition to her concern for Ablard's career, she

538
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 1: was also just kind of against the idea of marriage

539
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:42,520
Speaker 1: in general. She saw it as very transactional and she

540
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:45,160
Speaker 1: didn't want this sort of tedious, typical life of a

541
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 1: married couple that she had in her mind. She wrote, quote,

542
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:51,440
Speaker 1: the name of wife may seem more sacred or binding,

543
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 1: but sweeter for me will always be the word mistress,

544
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 1: or if you'll permit me, that of concubine or whore.

545
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:06,240
Speaker 1: I said of it, I'd rather be. I think that's amazing, Yes,

546
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 1: especially for like educated noble person of this time, for

547
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:12,400
Speaker 1: a woman to say that, Well, and you have to

548
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 1: I mean again, you know you're talking about having a

549
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:18,120
Speaker 1: stereotypical idea of marriage in your head, especially at that time,

550
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:22,080
Speaker 1: which meant, Okay, now you're married, so all your stuff

551
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:24,480
Speaker 1: belongs to your husband, your body belongs to your husband,

552
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 1: your kids belong to your husband. If he decides to

553
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:30,000
Speaker 1: leave you, sucks to be you. You can't get another

554
00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:32,240
Speaker 1: man because you're still married, and then you'll look like

555
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:36,720
Speaker 1: a horror anyway, And like, at least I'm not saying

556
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:40,120
Speaker 1: that the life of a medieval prostitute was great, but

557
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 1: it was a job. You had your own money, you

558
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:46,080
Speaker 1: got paid up front. I mean, you know, there's something

559
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:49,760
Speaker 1: to be said for the freedom, the relative freedom that

560
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:53,960
Speaker 1: must look like. You know somebody who's unattached, who's like,

561
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 1: as long as she's feeling, not like she's gonna get

562
00:32:57,320 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 1: thrown into the street or something like that. I mean, like,

563
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:02,280
Speaker 1: rather you just come visit me, we have our good times,

564
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 1: and then you head on back to work, and I

565
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 1: get my work done, right, I can kind of see it.

566
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 1: She also pointed out that nothing was ever going to

567
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:11,520
Speaker 1: make her uncle happy. No matter what agreements they made,

568
00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:13,600
Speaker 1: he was still he was. It's never gonna be enough

569
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 1: for him. And she also said, quote, how can the

570
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:20,840
Speaker 1: study of divinity and philosophy comport with the cries of children,

571
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:24,000
Speaker 1: the songs of nurses, and the hurry of a family.

572
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:27,040
Speaker 1: Those who were rich are never disturbed with the care

573
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 1: and charges of housekeeping, But with you scholars, it is

574
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:33,920
Speaker 1: far otherwise. So she straight up was like, look, if

575
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:35,840
Speaker 1: you could afford to pay somebody to do all this

576
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 1: going to be one thing. But you're a teacher and

577
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 1: I ain't doing it, and I ain't doing it just like,

578
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:44,160
Speaker 1: I'm not about to have our only arguments from now

579
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:49,960
Speaker 1: on be about household ship, right, So Abalar dropped it again,

580
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 1: and he stayed in Brittany with her, and it was

581
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:55,680
Speaker 1: there some months later that she gave birth to a son,

582
00:33:56,120 --> 00:34:04,960
Speaker 1: and they named the child Soul. Look, they were creative thinkers, okay.

583
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:08,760
Speaker 1: They loved science and nerdy ship, and they certainly loved

584
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 1: being unconventional. So they named their son after the scientific

585
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:16,480
Speaker 1: instrument used to determine the position of the stars and planets. Duh, Hey,

586
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:20,040
Speaker 1: it's better than whatever Elon Musk and Grimes named that kid.

587
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:26,360
Speaker 1: But but same energy, same energy, yes, Grimes and a

588
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:28,680
Speaker 1: law Musk energy going on. Although I have to say,

589
00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:31,279
Speaker 1: Astrolabes kind of a cool name. Oh no, Astrolabe is

590
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:35,319
Speaker 1: super cool. I might name a kid astro Astro. Yeah,

591
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:38,520
Speaker 1: I guess the astro over short. Yeah, you'd call him Astro.

592
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 1: Labe is a weird sound for a name, A good sound.

593
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:44,040
Speaker 1: I don't feel like Labe should be. I don't know

594
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:47,440
Speaker 1: anybody who's got the word labe in their name. If

595
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:51,400
Speaker 1: they did, they probably changed it by now. After a

596
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:55,359
Speaker 1: few months, they left Astrolabe with Adalard's family, who were

597
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:57,799
Speaker 1: wealthy landowners with several kids of their own. So they

598
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:00,839
Speaker 1: were like, sure, more the merrier, and they went back

599
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:04,400
Speaker 1: to Paris to face old man Fullbear, and on the

600
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:09,040
Speaker 1: way back, Abalard was like, listen, Heloise, your uncle is

601
00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:12,000
Speaker 1: going to be really, really really mad if we don't

602
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:17,960
Speaker 1: get married, like bad news bad. So finally Heloise is like, fine,

603
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:22,920
Speaker 1: secret marriage, but super super super secret. I'm not thrilled

604
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:25,600
Speaker 1: about it. I don't want anybody there, don't write ship down,

605
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 1: I don't want a card from no one. And when

606
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:31,760
Speaker 1: they get back to Paris, they get together with uncle Fulbear.

607
00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 1: Just a couple of friends were there and they have

608
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:37,680
Speaker 1: this tiny, little quiet wedding, and of course it's not

609
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 1: long before the rumors start spreading. People all over town

610
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:44,840
Speaker 1: there whispering like, oh I heard. I heard that Heloise

611
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:47,440
Speaker 1: and Abelard had a kid and got married. Oh I

612
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:49,200
Speaker 1: heard they've been doing it this whole time he was

613
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:52,239
Speaker 1: teaching her. Oh I heard they named their kid Gyrosphere.

614
00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:56,200
Speaker 1: You know how telephone games. Going's a little different. But

615
00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:59,960
Speaker 1: when Fulbear heard this, when her uncle heard these rumors,

616
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:03,239
Speaker 1: he totally dropped his promise to keep it secret and

617
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:05,840
Speaker 1: was just like, oh, Yeah, they're married. Absolutely, they're married.

618
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:08,880
Speaker 1: Of course they're married. They have a kid together and everything,

619
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:11,239
Speaker 1: and just spilled the beans. Why is the cannon at

620
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 1: a cathedral? Yeah. One of the murky things about this

621
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:18,280
Speaker 1: story is the differences in what they saw for this marriage,

622
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:19,640
Speaker 1: whether it was a good thing or a bad thing.

623
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 1: Of course, Halloise saw it as a really bad thing

624
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:27,240
Speaker 1: because Abillard was in line to join this religious study

625
00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:30,719
Speaker 1: and he shouldn't be having a wife and kids. It

626
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:34,200
Speaker 1: would ruin his career and his reputation. So if they

627
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:36,399
Speaker 1: had been doing it this whole time and we're now

628
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:40,200
Speaker 1: married with a kid, he looks terrible. She doesn't like that,

629
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:42,359
Speaker 1: and of course it could mean any number of things

630
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:45,799
Speaker 1: for her, you know, whereas filberis thinking, well, you guys

631
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:47,360
Speaker 1: had a kid together, you should be married. That's the

632
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:49,399
Speaker 1: right thing to do. Form a family, do the thing.

633
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 1: So it's really just an issue of perspective here, a

634
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:56,320
Speaker 1: lot of it. So when those rumors got to Heloise,

635
00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:00,239
Speaker 1: she did everything she could to shoot them down out

636
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:03,960
Speaker 1: as she was like, no, Abillard never asked me to

637
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:06,040
Speaker 1: marry him, and if he did, I would have said no.

638
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:08,680
Speaker 1: And he's a good guy, and he's like gonna be

639
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:10,279
Speaker 1: a great man one day. He's got nothing to do

640
00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:12,799
Speaker 1: with me. He's a great teacher, he's a good friend.

641
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:18,120
Speaker 1: That's it. And she denied it so persistently that people

642
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:21,320
Speaker 1: believed her. The rumors started to kind of fizzle. Now

643
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:24,720
Speaker 1: it's getting back to Fullbear that nobody believes it anymore,

644
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:27,879
Speaker 1: and they're saying, oh, she's not she's not married, she's

645
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:30,880
Speaker 1: there's no baby, blah blah blah, and Fulbet is furious

646
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:35,640
Speaker 1: about this. He's totally piste off because now not only

647
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:38,680
Speaker 1: are there like two sides floating around, so now there's

648
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:43,080
Speaker 1: probably people thinking that she's she's out here getting laid

649
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:46,239
Speaker 1: and having kids out of wedlock, and that this guy

650
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 1: took advantage of his niece. And now that makes him

651
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:52,480
Speaker 1: look foolish, and he is really mad that she's denying

652
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:55,560
Speaker 1: these rumors. He goes off on her, just like he

653
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:59,080
Speaker 1: did with Avalard, and he's screaming and yelling about how

654
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:01,160
Speaker 1: she needs to let people oh they were married, and

655
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:05,960
Speaker 1: then he beat her. Now Abalard got word of this

656
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:11,120
Speaker 1: and once again he arranged for Heloise to escape Fullbear's

657
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:14,640
Speaker 1: house dressed as a nun, and he scurried her off

658
00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:18,040
Speaker 1: to her old monastery in argent Toy where she had

659
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:20,080
Speaker 1: grown up, so she was going to live there as

660
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:23,480
Speaker 1: a guest with the nuns, and the sisters there loved her.

661
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:27,000
Speaker 1: They heard all the rumors to write, I mean, Abalard's

662
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:31,480
Speaker 1: famous Heloise is famous. Everybody's heard these rumors. But Kim

663
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:34,839
Speaker 1: and Kim Kardashian and Pete Davidson's hands a few days

664
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:39,359
Speaker 1: and then everyone and everyone in France what knows what's

665
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:43,280
Speaker 1: going on. But they were like, you know, your business

666
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:47,960
Speaker 1: is your business, girl, between you and God. If I

667
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:51,160
Speaker 1: don't want answers, I'm not going to ask questions. You know.

668
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:55,440
Speaker 1: Some of them, the sisters that really liked her even

669
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:59,760
Speaker 1: helped her arranged private meetings with Abillard in the convent

670
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:04,520
Speaker 1: like alone. So speculation station. I'm just thinking these nuns

671
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:07,319
Speaker 1: were so sex starved that they were just like, as

672
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:10,120
Speaker 1: long as somebody's getting laid around here, I'm happy. They

673
00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:12,680
Speaker 1: were like, please go into this room where I definitely

674
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 1: don't have an eyehole gouge. Oh, the nuns are perverts.

675
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:21,479
Speaker 1: I couldn't expect that. Move out of the way, Sister Mary.

676
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:24,279
Speaker 1: You've looked long enough. It's my turn. We've got to

677
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:27,000
Speaker 1: put some more holes in this wall. There's so many

678
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:30,759
Speaker 1: of us here. One day Heloise walks in and she's like,

679
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:33,960
Speaker 1: there are so many holes in my wall. Is seems

680
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:38,480
Speaker 1: every day. But full Bear, meanwhile, it was just getting

681
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:43,080
Speaker 1: angrier and angrier every day. He was convinced that Abelard

682
00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:45,680
Speaker 1: had actually grown tired of Heloise and didn't want to

683
00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 1: deal with her, and that's why I sent her off

684
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:50,880
Speaker 1: to the convent. So that really pissed him off. And

685
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 1: full Bear's reaction to this was unbalanced. Will say, what

686
00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:00,440
Speaker 1: horrific act did he decide to take out on a

687
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:04,880
Speaker 1: bollard and retribution? Brace yourselves and we'll find out right

688
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:16,200
Speaker 1: after this. Oh, welcome back to act three. Everybody where

689
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:22,440
Speaker 1: it gets a little crazy, little dicey. So Uncle Fulbert

690
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:25,399
Speaker 1: had this made up idea that Abillard sent Helloi's away

691
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:28,040
Speaker 1: because he was bored with her, and not, you know,

692
00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:32,960
Speaker 1: because of full Bear beating her. So in his madness

693
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:36,560
Speaker 1: he went out and hired a group of assassins. And

694
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:40,720
Speaker 1: we'll let Abelard's own words describe what happened next. Quote

695
00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:44,400
Speaker 1: violently and sensed they laid a plot against me, and

696
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:46,959
Speaker 1: as I lay sleeping, they broke in with the help

697
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:50,320
Speaker 1: of one of my servants, whom they had bribed. There

698
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:53,560
Speaker 1: they had vengeance on me with a most cruel and

699
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:58,880
Speaker 1: most shameful punishment, such as astounded the whole world. For

700
00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:01,760
Speaker 1: they cut off those parts of my body with which

701
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:06,560
Speaker 1: I had done that which was the cause of their sorrow. God,

702
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:11,440
Speaker 1: in Layman's terms, they snipped his balls off. Okay, I

703
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:15,680
Speaker 1: don't know which is worse, the the like snipping of

704
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:19,719
Speaker 1: his balls or the like seven dangling participles at the

705
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:23,480
Speaker 1: end of that sentence, they cut off those parts of

706
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:25,640
Speaker 1: my body with which I had done that, which was

707
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:28,279
Speaker 1: the cause of their sorrow. Like all right, but I

708
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:32,239
Speaker 1: thought you're supposed to be an orator. The crammer back

709
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:34,880
Speaker 1: in the day was very like when you got this

710
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:38,680
Speaker 1: is probably three translations deep, you know, very cruious, so true,

711
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:41,680
Speaker 1: it's like old French to regular French to English by

712
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:47,640
Speaker 1: being by way of being so yeah, pretty horrific punishment,

713
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:52,120
Speaker 1: all things considered. And obviously this was not a painless

714
00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:56,400
Speaker 1: process or anything. So he was screaming so loudly that

715
00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:59,760
Speaker 1: the neighbors came running and they found him and rushed

716
00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:03,560
Speaker 1: him to a doctor who saved him from bleeding out. Yeah,

717
00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:06,680
Speaker 1: and the next day, of course, everybody had learned what

718
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:11,799
Speaker 1: would what had happened. Look if they heard about these

719
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:14,279
Speaker 1: two maybe having sex in a room by themselves, then

720
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:18,720
Speaker 1: they definitely heard about, you know, public castration that several

721
00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:23,160
Speaker 1: people saw the results of. So the thing is he's

722
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:26,600
Speaker 1: getting all the sympathy, Like everybody in Paris is like,

723
00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:33,520
Speaker 1: this is horrific because it is yeah, you those for love.

724
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:37,880
Speaker 1: There's someone snipped the love from you. This is Parris.

725
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:42,560
Speaker 1: The scholars at his school quote loudly bewailed his misfortune,

726
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:45,640
Speaker 1: and friends and strangers alike came by to comfort him.

727
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:50,440
Speaker 1: I mean, these assassins must have sucked at disguising themselves

728
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:53,640
Speaker 1: because they were immediately all rounded up and they were

729
00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:58,759
Speaker 1: condemned to not only be castrated themselves, but also to

730
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:04,040
Speaker 1: lose their eyeball. So you know, just like hammer Robbie's code,

731
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:06,760
Speaker 1: an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth,

732
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:13,480
Speaker 1: two balls and two eyes for two balls. That they

733
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:15,520
Speaker 1: were like, listen, you want to funk around with balls,

734
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:19,640
Speaker 1: so you're going to get in so fulbet himself, I think,

735
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:23,480
Speaker 1: through his political connections, managed to dodge any legal responsibility.

736
00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:27,520
Speaker 1: He totally denied having having any involvement, but everybody in

737
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:30,640
Speaker 1: town knew that he was behind it, and he ended

738
00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:33,200
Speaker 1: up basically resigning from his position in shame and he

739
00:43:33,239 --> 00:43:36,200
Speaker 1: mostly disappears from history at this point. Man full Bear

740
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:40,120
Speaker 1: really was made to look like a fool bear many

741
00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:42,799
Speaker 1: times in this because he was like, Oh, they ain't

742
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:47,480
Speaker 1: fucking what. They're fucking what. No, I'll beat her up. No,

743
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:51,359
Speaker 1: that didn't work. Now they've spirited her away. I'm gonna

744
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:53,600
Speaker 1: get some guys together cut his balls, and now everybody

745
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:56,120
Speaker 1: knows that Jesus I gotta get out of here. Yeah,

746
00:43:56,239 --> 00:43:58,359
Speaker 1: he was a reactionary guy and it didn't go well

747
00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:00,840
Speaker 1: for him. Not long headed. You know, you gotta stop

748
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:03,560
Speaker 1: and think for a second. Take a breath before you

749
00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:06,480
Speaker 1: cut somebody's balls off, you know, to take a breath.

750
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:10,720
Speaker 1: So a friend of Abelard wrote to him basically saying, hey, buddy,

751
00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:13,440
Speaker 1: you know this ain't so bad. I mean, you know

752
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:16,680
Speaker 1: you're gonna get so much sympathy. Now. Everybody's going to

753
00:44:16,719 --> 00:44:18,640
Speaker 1: be on your side, and people are going to give

754
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:20,760
Speaker 1: money to like your school or your church or wherever

755
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:24,239
Speaker 1: you end up. Plus, you know those balls were really

756
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:26,760
Speaker 1: distracting you, so now you can focus more on your work.

757
00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:31,239
Speaker 1: It's just like it reminds me of in our Governor

758
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:34,640
Speaker 1: Morris episode when he got his legs screwed up by

759
00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:36,600
Speaker 1: a carriage and his friend wrote to him and said,

760
00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:38,839
Speaker 1: it's too bad they didn't take your dick off, because

761
00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:41,080
Speaker 1: then it would have been a little more level headed,

762
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:45,120
Speaker 1: a little more focused. I mean, right, it's just surprising

763
00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:47,879
Speaker 1: that apple Ard to not immediately burn this letter from

764
00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:52,400
Speaker 1: this job comforter guys just trying to find the silver lining,

765
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:56,440
Speaker 1: you know. I guess it's like here here, Well, it's

766
00:44:56,440 --> 00:44:58,360
Speaker 1: not so bad. I'll cut your balls off and you

767
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:01,520
Speaker 1: can tell me how happy you are about it. You're

768
00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:06,640
Speaker 1: not so distracted. It's likely that Heloise's friends at the

769
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:10,440
Speaker 1: convent heard about this castration and all this stuff and

770
00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:13,520
Speaker 1: just didn't tell her about it for a while. But

771
00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:17,760
Speaker 1: she did find out eventually, and she was heartbroken, although

772
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:21,000
Speaker 1: she loved him no less, and she never imagined full

773
00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:23,920
Speaker 1: Bear would go to this kind of extreme for punishment.

774
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:26,040
Speaker 1: I mean, who would I wouldn't. That would never cross

775
00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:32,080
Speaker 1: my mind that somebody would get ball chopped off. That's crazy. Abelard, meanwhile,

776
00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:36,080
Speaker 1: mostly felt shame, and as soon as he was on

777
00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:38,799
Speaker 1: the mend, he completely retreated from the public eye and

778
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:41,160
Speaker 1: decided to become a monk at the abbey of Saint

779
00:45:41,239 --> 00:45:44,719
Speaker 1: Denis in Paris, and he cut off all communication with

780
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:47,880
Speaker 1: anyone except he Loise, and he tried to just settle

781
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:51,400
Speaker 1: into monk life and be quiet and reflective and spiritual,

782
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:56,320
Speaker 1: which lasted no time at all before he got super

783
00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:59,640
Speaker 1: bored and started studying and writing again. You can't take

784
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:02,520
Speaker 1: a book lover away from their books. You know they're

785
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:05,000
Speaker 1: not going to be like, you know what I'm done

786
00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:07,080
Speaker 1: with what I devoted my life too. I'm just going

787
00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:10,640
Speaker 1: to sit here quietly right well, and more more than that,

788
00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:14,360
Speaker 1: you can't take an argumentative, opinionated guy and be like

789
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:18,200
Speaker 1: to sit and reflect like, no thanks, I'm going to

790
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:20,520
Speaker 1: reflect on lots of stuff, but I like to share

791
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:23,560
Speaker 1: my reflections with others and tell other people why their

792
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:28,879
Speaker 1: reflections are wrong. Exactly. He seemed to only find joy

793
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:32,520
Speaker 1: and prodding and irritating the other monks, probably by telling

794
00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:36,040
Speaker 1: them their reflections were wrong, and he got himself kicked

795
00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:41,200
Speaker 1: out for historical heresy, of course, and so he built

796
00:46:41,239 --> 00:46:44,359
Speaker 1: a little hut basically out of sticks and mud and

797
00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:47,879
Speaker 1: became a hermit. But when rumors got out about where

798
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:52,360
Speaker 1: he was, students started flocking to him. So the hut

799
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:54,799
Speaker 1: was rebuilt out of wood and stone into a full

800
00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:57,400
Speaker 1: on place of study, and that's where he opened the

801
00:46:57,480 --> 00:47:01,200
Speaker 1: oratory of the Paraclet. It just came run into his

802
00:47:01,239 --> 00:47:04,160
Speaker 1: little mud hut and they were probably like, listen, you

803
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:07,960
Speaker 1: don't know about this guy. He lives off the beaten track. Um,

804
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:10,480
Speaker 1: he has gone completely back to nature. It is the

805
00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:14,200
Speaker 1: most cool cleansing thing that you can do. So I

806
00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:16,520
Speaker 1: say we all go to his yurt and learned together.

807
00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:18,879
Speaker 1: It's that thing where you're like, you you're trying so

808
00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:21,560
Speaker 1: hard to to get away from people and have people

809
00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:24,000
Speaker 1: stopped loving you, and that just makes them more obsessed

810
00:47:24,040 --> 00:47:26,880
Speaker 1: with you. It kind of reminds me of the motto

811
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:31,359
Speaker 1: law Hussein, because he was like his whole thing was like,

812
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:33,560
Speaker 1: don't follow me because that makes me look like I'm

813
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:35,799
Speaker 1: self centered. And then people are like, oh, we should

814
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:38,040
Speaker 1: follow that guy because he's not self centered, and he

815
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:43,400
Speaker 1: was like no. So Heloise is still living at Argenti

816
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:46,480
Speaker 1: and she had decided to go ahead and become a

817
00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:49,759
Speaker 1: full on nun as well. Now there's some sources that

818
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:53,560
Speaker 1: say Abalard coerced her to do this out of jealousy

819
00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:56,320
Speaker 1: so that she wouldn't go off and marry anyone else.

820
00:47:56,680 --> 00:47:58,920
Speaker 1: He spoke to her after he decided to become a

821
00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:02,160
Speaker 1: monk and was like, hey, you should become a nun

822
00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:05,120
Speaker 1: to Some sources say that she was resistant to this

823
00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:07,799
Speaker 1: and then he talked her into it, but others say

824
00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:10,880
Speaker 1: that she really wouldn't have had much choice otherwise, and

825
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:12,839
Speaker 1: it's likely that she would have wanted to do this

826
00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:17,879
Speaker 1: because she pretty much had again limited options. She could

827
00:48:17,920 --> 00:48:21,160
Speaker 1: either go back to uncle Fulbear, which she obviously didn't

828
00:48:21,160 --> 00:48:23,239
Speaker 1: want to do. Or she could have gone to live

829
00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:26,319
Speaker 1: with Abelard's family in Brittany, which I mean, sure, but

830
00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:28,360
Speaker 1: sounds like it might be dull and she would just

831
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:31,680
Speaker 1: be out in the countryside, not really engaging much. Or

832
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:36,200
Speaker 1: she could have divorced Abillard and remarried someone else, but

833
00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:40,040
Speaker 1: that would have been very boring to her because at

834
00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:43,600
Speaker 1: this time it was getting really trendy and expected for

835
00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:47,319
Speaker 1: scholars to also remain celibate. You know, if you're like

836
00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:49,720
Speaker 1: she wanted for him, like you devote your life to study,

837
00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:51,280
Speaker 1: you don't have a wife, you don't have a family.

838
00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:56,520
Speaker 1: You're just supposed to study. So it's great news how

839
00:48:56,560 --> 00:49:00,319
Speaker 1: you can work more. Yeah, so her potential husband would

840
00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:02,960
Speaker 1: have all been non academic dumb dumps, which would have

841
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:05,400
Speaker 1: made her very miserable. And they probably wouldn't have wanted

842
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:07,960
Speaker 1: a woman to be smart anyway. Definitely, So really not

843
00:49:08,080 --> 00:49:10,680
Speaker 1: a lot of great options for her here. But being

844
00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:13,600
Speaker 1: a nun meant she could continue being an academic. It

845
00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:16,640
Speaker 1: meant she could stay culturally relevant and be involved in

846
00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:19,759
Speaker 1: all these conversations about where the country was headed. And

847
00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:21,640
Speaker 1: it was the only way she'd be able to keep

848
00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:24,719
Speaker 1: a relationship with Abalard. You know, he's a monk, she's

849
00:49:24,719 --> 00:49:26,560
Speaker 1: a nun. It makes sense that they're writing to each

850
00:49:26,600 --> 00:49:30,279
Speaker 1: other and corresponding. Yeah. Well, plus it's weird to say that,

851
00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:33,279
Speaker 1: like he was like, hey, I'm jealous that you might

852
00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:35,279
Speaker 1: marry someone else, when she was like, I'm in love

853
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:38,239
Speaker 1: with you and I won't marry you. Why would she

854
00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:43,279
Speaker 1: be like interested in some other rando? Absolutely so. At Argentoy,

855
00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:47,200
Speaker 1: she rose the ranks from none to prioris, which is

856
00:49:47,239 --> 00:49:50,960
Speaker 1: like second in command to the abbess. Uh, second in

857
00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:56,000
Speaker 1: command report for duty. Just like someone didn't do their prayers,

858
00:49:56,040 --> 00:49:57,759
Speaker 1: so you have to tell them to do a few

859
00:49:57,760 --> 00:50:01,000
Speaker 1: hail Mary's right right, and she was there. She and

860
00:50:01,040 --> 00:50:05,040
Speaker 1: Abalard exchanged letters regularly. Abillard was elected to be the

861
00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:08,040
Speaker 1: abbot of the abbey and St. Gildas in Brittany, back

862
00:50:08,080 --> 00:50:11,600
Speaker 1: near his hometown, so he left the Oratory of Paraclet

863
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:14,520
Speaker 1: and went there to be the abbot, And after the

864
00:50:14,560 --> 00:50:18,680
Speaker 1: convent at Argentoy was shut down, he arranged for Hallow

865
00:50:18,719 --> 00:50:21,880
Speaker 1: He's to be transferred to his old spot, the oratory

866
00:50:21,880 --> 00:50:25,600
Speaker 1: of the Paracleet, where she eventually became the abbess. So

867
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:28,760
Speaker 1: now she's in the place he opened, she's running the show,

868
00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:32,080
Speaker 1: and he's back in another monastery on the other side

869
00:50:32,120 --> 00:50:34,719
Speaker 1: of France. So they had no contact with each other

870
00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:38,960
Speaker 1: for almost twelve years. But when Hell He's heard about

871
00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:44,359
Speaker 1: Abillard's little autobiography, The History of My Calamities, she immediately

872
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:47,719
Speaker 1: sent word Like we said, the text was written as

873
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:51,359
Speaker 1: a letter and originally was sent to his friend Philantis,

874
00:50:51,960 --> 00:50:55,200
Speaker 1: so she wrote and was like, um, hey, maybe you

875
00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:57,879
Speaker 1: should have written this to me sort of a big

876
00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:00,399
Speaker 1: part of the story of the calamities. I'm I'm kind

877
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:08,480
Speaker 1: of your main calamity buddy, So hello Calamity Calling. And

878
00:51:08,520 --> 00:51:12,040
Speaker 1: what followed were a series of letters. Honestly, we would

879
00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:14,280
Speaker 1: totally read you these, but many of them are longer

880
00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:16,959
Speaker 1: than the script for this entire episode, because we're talking

881
00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:18,839
Speaker 1: about a monk and a nun who had nothing better

882
00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:21,799
Speaker 1: to do but sit and read twenty page letters and

883
00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:27,200
Speaker 1: then respond with their own letter, insanely long with every

884
00:51:27,239 --> 00:51:31,400
Speaker 1: guy thoughts, and I'm sure that he was like, actually,

885
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:33,560
Speaker 1: your point in the last letter was not that great

886
00:51:33,640 --> 00:51:37,600
Speaker 1: because of these reasons. Okay, they were thick with debate

887
00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:40,840
Speaker 1: and dialectic conversation. That's what they liked about each other

888
00:51:40,920 --> 00:51:43,480
Speaker 1: so much. I'm sure, Oh, yes, you would want to

889
00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:47,160
Speaker 1: keep that. I probably couldn't keep yourself from writing kind

890
00:51:47,160 --> 00:51:50,080
Speaker 1: of stuff to each other. They are available on Project Gutenberg,

891
00:51:50,200 --> 00:51:51,960
Speaker 1: so you want to go find him, you can. Yeah,

892
00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:54,640
Speaker 1: if you got time to read, they had time to write,

893
00:51:54,680 --> 00:51:58,200
Speaker 1: so feel free to check that out. They definitely go

894
00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:00,640
Speaker 1: back and forth a lot about the struggle between their

895
00:52:00,640 --> 00:52:04,600
Speaker 1: passion for each other and then their new extreme religious devotion,

896
00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:08,040
Speaker 1: which would be very interesting because, of course, if you're

897
00:52:08,040 --> 00:52:09,920
Speaker 1: in the church and they're like, you're not supposed to

898
00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:14,279
Speaker 1: be feeling horny feelings and you were already questioning free

899
00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:17,239
Speaker 1: will and God's destiny, and all the stuff like, well,

900
00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:18,719
Speaker 1: why would you put it in me if I'm not

901
00:52:18,719 --> 00:52:20,680
Speaker 1: supposed to feel it. I mean, it would definitely be

902
00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:24,160
Speaker 1: fascinating conversation to have with the person that you actually

903
00:52:24,160 --> 00:52:28,680
Speaker 1: feel those feelings with, he writes to her quote, I

904
00:52:28,760 --> 00:52:31,440
Speaker 1: promise that I will forget you, and yet I cannot

905
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:35,279
Speaker 1: think of it without loving you. She writes back, even

906
00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:39,880
Speaker 1: during the celebration of Mass, when our prayers should be pure, lewed,

907
00:52:40,080 --> 00:52:43,000
Speaker 1: visions of those pleasures take such a hold upon my

908
00:52:43,120 --> 00:52:47,000
Speaker 1: unhappy soul that my thoughts are on their wantonness instead

909
00:52:47,040 --> 00:52:51,120
Speaker 1: of on prayers. I mean, yeah, because you've got people

910
00:52:51,120 --> 00:52:53,479
Speaker 1: telling you, no more sex, You've gotta stop thinking about sex.

911
00:52:53,520 --> 00:52:55,879
Speaker 1: And she's like, god, boy, I had quite a few

912
00:52:55,960 --> 00:52:59,040
Speaker 1: years there where I was having the craziest, most insane

913
00:52:59,480 --> 00:53:02,560
Speaker 1: on top of every piece of furniture, private house in

914
00:53:02,600 --> 00:53:08,000
Speaker 1: the country, NonStop sex, hot teacher sex all the time. Right,

915
00:53:08,640 --> 00:53:11,200
Speaker 1: there was some marketing thing where it's you say, don't

916
00:53:11,239 --> 00:53:13,440
Speaker 1: think of pink elephants, and the first thing you think

917
00:53:13,480 --> 00:53:16,200
Speaker 1: of, of of course, pink elephants. Because if you tell someone

918
00:53:16,239 --> 00:53:18,520
Speaker 1: not to think about something, they're immediately going to only

919
00:53:18,520 --> 00:53:22,319
Speaker 1: think about. So Heloise asks Abillard to move back to

920
00:53:22,360 --> 00:53:25,239
Speaker 1: the paracleet and live with her, But he writes back

921
00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:28,040
Speaker 1: that this is too scandalous and they need to set

922
00:53:28,080 --> 00:53:31,880
Speaker 1: all their horny nous aside and focus on their spirituality.

923
00:53:32,040 --> 00:53:35,080
Speaker 1: And she counters that with some scripture and philosophy and says, basically,

924
00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:36,360
Speaker 1: what's the point in any of this if we can

925
00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:39,439
Speaker 1: enjoy each other's company. But he writes back and really

926
00:53:39,440 --> 00:53:42,319
Speaker 1: shuts it down with quote, if you are anxious to

927
00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:45,200
Speaker 1: please me in everything as you claim, you must rid

928
00:53:45,239 --> 00:53:48,600
Speaker 1: yourself of these feelings. If it persists, you can neither

929
00:53:48,680 --> 00:53:51,920
Speaker 1: please me nor attain bliss with me. And from then

930
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:55,320
Speaker 1: on their correspondence gets to be more about religious study

931
00:53:55,400 --> 00:53:59,000
Speaker 1: and piety and philosophy and things like that. Historians look

932
00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:02,080
Speaker 1: at their letters as this incredible firsthand account of their

933
00:54:02,160 --> 00:54:05,759
Speaker 1: complicated love and how dangerous this kind of passion was

934
00:54:06,080 --> 00:54:09,400
Speaker 1: for powerful people in the church because there's such a

935
00:54:09,480 --> 00:54:13,680
Speaker 1: threat to themselves and yet they want each other so badly. Um,

936
00:54:13,719 --> 00:54:16,800
Speaker 1: and I think that's where Abalard really was. Maybe because

937
00:54:16,800 --> 00:54:19,840
Speaker 1: he was castrated, I don't know, but he was, you know,

938
00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:22,520
Speaker 1: at some point just like I gotta I gotta be

939
00:54:22,560 --> 00:54:25,719
Speaker 1: real about this, and it's one or the other, and

940
00:54:25,760 --> 00:54:28,080
Speaker 1: we can either keep running around in this fantasy land

941
00:54:28,840 --> 00:54:30,920
Speaker 1: and try and sneak around as a monk and a

942
00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:33,040
Speaker 1: nun a very high up. I mean, not even a

943
00:54:33,040 --> 00:54:36,160
Speaker 1: monk and a nun and abbot and an abbess. That's

944
00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:38,680
Speaker 1: that's that's not really good. And I think he was

945
00:54:38,719 --> 00:54:41,400
Speaker 1: really scared. He had suffered quite a bit of punishment

946
00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:43,760
Speaker 1: at this point, and as much as he loved getting

947
00:54:43,840 --> 00:54:45,960
Speaker 1: kicked out of school and then coming back and showing

948
00:54:45,960 --> 00:54:49,960
Speaker 1: everybody what's up, I think he was probably a little

949
00:54:50,000 --> 00:54:52,719
Speaker 1: more like he'd suffered some abuse at this point, and

950
00:54:52,760 --> 00:54:55,120
Speaker 1: he was a little more timid, and he's like, look,

951
00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:58,280
Speaker 1: I just I don't want to keep this going, because

952
00:54:58,560 --> 00:55:01,640
Speaker 1: what happens when somebody else it gets mad? What's what's next?

953
00:55:01,680 --> 00:55:04,680
Speaker 1: Where they going to cut off next? Or even if

954
00:55:04,680 --> 00:55:07,359
Speaker 1: we're just excommunicating, we have to live in the woods. Like,

955
00:55:07,840 --> 00:55:11,960
Speaker 1: that's not something I'm willing to to do. Um. And

956
00:55:12,200 --> 00:55:15,120
Speaker 1: also I think he also felt to some degree pretty

957
00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:18,920
Speaker 1: legit about his piety and was like, I swore not

958
00:55:19,040 --> 00:55:22,000
Speaker 1: to do that. Yeah, and I don't have the equipment

959
00:55:22,440 --> 00:55:25,319
Speaker 1: so much anymore, either, So look, this is just off

960
00:55:25,320 --> 00:55:27,960
Speaker 1: the table, and I wonder too if it's like, if

961
00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:30,360
Speaker 1: we keep talking about it only makes it harder. So

962
00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:33,480
Speaker 1: I'd rather not talk about it. I mean, it's it's

963
00:55:33,560 --> 00:55:35,360
Speaker 1: nice to know that we both love each other and

964
00:55:35,400 --> 00:55:37,799
Speaker 1: then we still have the feelings, but since we can't

965
00:55:37,840 --> 00:55:40,440
Speaker 1: act on them without totally blowing up our whole lives

966
00:55:40,920 --> 00:55:46,319
Speaker 1: lives and also maybe my oath to God that I

967
00:55:46,360 --> 00:55:50,600
Speaker 1: take very seriously or whatever else. You know, I just

968
00:55:50,719 --> 00:55:53,400
Speaker 1: rather not talk about it at all and just limit

969
00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:56,480
Speaker 1: ourselves to the things we can both actually really be

970
00:55:56,520 --> 00:56:02,400
Speaker 1: passionate about, which is words, theology and philosophy and stuff

971
00:56:02,440 --> 00:56:05,600
Speaker 1: like that. It reminds me of The Amazing Spider Man too,

972
00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:11,080
Speaker 1: where uh, Andrew Garfield, Peter Parker and Emma Stone Gwen Stacy,

973
00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:13,520
Speaker 1: you know, have agreed, like we can't do this, we

974
00:56:13,640 --> 00:56:15,440
Speaker 1: just have to be friends. So let's just hang out

975
00:56:15,480 --> 00:56:18,080
Speaker 1: and be friends. And it didn't last because I mean,

976
00:56:18,080 --> 00:56:20,520
Speaker 1: look at the two of them. Come on, he kisses

977
00:56:20,520 --> 00:56:24,799
Speaker 1: in the supply closet, eyes crossed, eyes crossed, they really

978
00:56:24,840 --> 00:56:27,920
Speaker 1: did cross like we were like, oh, Emma Stone had

979
00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:30,239
Speaker 1: a reaction to that kiss. That movie is so good,

980
00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:33,080
Speaker 1: so good. Now you know, we just said that maybe

981
00:56:33,120 --> 00:56:35,319
Speaker 1: Abeillard was a little more timid than he used to be,

982
00:56:35,360 --> 00:56:38,040
Speaker 1: but don't get it twisted. He continued to get in

983
00:56:38,080 --> 00:56:41,840
Speaker 1: trouble all the time with religious higher ups for teaching

984
00:56:42,040 --> 00:56:47,120
Speaker 1: secular philosophy alongside his religious teaching. So people kept accusing

985
00:56:47,200 --> 00:56:51,520
Speaker 1: him of heresy, particularly for using logic in religious study

986
00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:57,200
Speaker 1: where logic serves no place, well in specific studies where

987
00:56:57,239 --> 00:56:59,560
Speaker 1: it was like, you're trying to use logic to explain

988
00:56:59,600 --> 00:57:01,760
Speaker 1: the act of God or something, but he doesn't apply,

989
00:57:01,880 --> 00:57:04,719
Speaker 1: but he doesn't abide by these logical rules, So it's

990
00:57:04,719 --> 00:57:07,000
Speaker 1: that's heretical to try and explain, to even try to

991
00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:10,839
Speaker 1: explain these things is heretical. And it's just there's so

992
00:57:11,000 --> 00:57:14,799
Speaker 1: much detail about Abalard fighting with various religious institutions at

993
00:57:14,840 --> 00:57:17,760
Speaker 1: this time, and it is it's one of these things

994
00:57:17,760 --> 00:57:22,000
Speaker 1: where I think, unless you're a theologian, uh, it's such

995
00:57:22,080 --> 00:57:25,760
Speaker 1: minutia and little details about like, well, your interpretation of

996
00:57:25,760 --> 00:57:29,480
Speaker 1: this sentence is outrageous, and we will kick you out

997
00:57:29,480 --> 00:57:32,960
Speaker 1: of the Catholic Church for thinking. So you know. So

998
00:57:33,000 --> 00:57:37,120
Speaker 1: it was very very particular group of people, very sensitive

999
00:57:37,120 --> 00:57:40,560
Speaker 1: about their interpretations. Yes, well, and it still happens today

1000
00:57:40,640 --> 00:57:42,360
Speaker 1: right where people are like, well, listen like God, I

1001
00:57:42,440 --> 00:57:44,200
Speaker 1: don't know. I read this thing in the Bible makes

1002
00:57:44,240 --> 00:57:46,280
Speaker 1: no sense to me, and I don't know why you

1003
00:57:46,280 --> 00:57:48,560
Speaker 1: would want to worship a guy who does something like

1004
00:57:48,600 --> 00:57:51,600
Speaker 1: this story that's laid out here. And then you have

1005
00:57:51,680 --> 00:57:54,200
Speaker 1: the church that goes, well, why are you asking questions?

1006
00:57:54,280 --> 00:57:57,160
Speaker 1: Just accept it, you have faith, And then you have

1007
00:57:57,200 --> 00:57:58,919
Speaker 1: the other churches that are sort of going, well, let's

1008
00:57:58,920 --> 00:58:01,040
Speaker 1: sit down and talk about what does that mean? Like,

1009
00:58:01,080 --> 00:58:02,800
Speaker 1: what could that mean? What did it mean? Then? What

1010
00:58:02,840 --> 00:58:04,760
Speaker 1: does it mean now? You know? And kind of it

1011
00:58:04,880 --> 00:58:07,840
Speaker 1: works for different people like this um, depending on your

1012
00:58:07,840 --> 00:58:12,080
Speaker 1: own sense of logic or whatever. UM. But yeah, it's

1013
00:58:12,280 --> 00:58:14,720
Speaker 1: common he I think he'd still be getting in trouble

1014
00:58:14,760 --> 00:58:22,440
Speaker 1: today for the same reason. He was even briefly excommunicated

1015
00:58:22,480 --> 00:58:25,240
Speaker 1: by Pope Pope Innocent the second, and his books were

1016
00:58:25,360 --> 00:58:27,800
Speaker 1: ordered to be burned, but a friend of his got

1017
00:58:27,880 --> 00:58:31,360
Speaker 1: his excommunication lifted as long as Abillard lived at his

1018
00:58:31,400 --> 00:58:35,280
Speaker 1: monastery and kept his damn mouth shut. And in eleven

1019
00:58:35,400 --> 00:58:38,440
Speaker 1: forty two, at sixty three years old, Abillard fell ill,

1020
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:42,720
Speaker 1: possibly with mange or scurvy, and he died from fever.

1021
00:58:43,520 --> 00:58:47,520
Speaker 1: And after he died, Heloise hiked up her habit marched

1022
00:58:47,600 --> 00:58:50,000
Speaker 1: right up to the pope and got him to clear

1023
00:58:50,040 --> 00:58:55,360
Speaker 1: Abelard's heresy charges nice like, don't put some respect on

1024
00:58:55,480 --> 00:59:00,920
Speaker 1: his name, and she commanded a lot of respect. Helouise

1025
00:59:00,960 --> 00:59:03,480
Speaker 1: continued to run the paracleet, and she took it upon

1026
00:59:03,560 --> 00:59:06,720
Speaker 1: herself to reform monastic life for the growing number of

1027
00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:09,240
Speaker 1: women who were taking the cloth, probably because it's the

1028
00:59:09,280 --> 00:59:13,280
Speaker 1: only place they could get educated, you know. She wrote

1029
00:59:13,680 --> 00:59:18,240
Speaker 1: Problemata or Hellise's Problems, which was this letter, and it

1030
00:59:18,360 --> 00:59:22,680
Speaker 1: was forty two questions about difficult passages in scripture that

1031
00:59:22,840 --> 00:59:26,400
Speaker 1: she had asked abial Art, and when she got his responses,

1032
00:59:27,120 --> 00:59:29,880
Speaker 1: she published it with his answers, and she used the

1033
00:59:29,920 --> 00:59:32,840
Speaker 1: text and the dialectic arguments that she had learned from

1034
00:59:32,920 --> 00:59:36,920
Speaker 1: him to establish new standards for not only her own abbey,

1035
00:59:36,920 --> 00:59:40,560
Speaker 1: but for abbey's everywhere. And it was not this like

1036
00:59:40,880 --> 00:59:44,480
Speaker 1: new liberal set of rules for abbeys that were just

1037
00:59:44,560 --> 00:59:47,040
Speaker 1: loud now that now that there's more women, we can

1038
00:59:47,120 --> 00:59:49,360
Speaker 1: just live however we want. It was very strict. You

1039
00:59:49,400 --> 00:59:52,680
Speaker 1: should definitely arrange private meetings between your favorite nun and

1040
00:59:52,680 --> 00:59:56,480
Speaker 1: her boyfriend. No, no, no, she wouldn't allow anything like that.

1041
00:59:56,520 --> 01:00:00,240
Speaker 1: They kept a very strict dress code. Um, you know,

1042
01:00:00,280 --> 01:00:02,680
Speaker 1: it is very strict what nuns had to wear, although

1043
01:00:03,040 --> 01:00:07,600
Speaker 1: at Heloise's insistence, they were allowed two sets of clothing. Um,

1044
01:00:07,680 --> 01:00:11,200
Speaker 1: she said, quote to keep the vermin out. She was like,

1045
01:00:11,280 --> 01:00:14,200
Speaker 1: let us wash our clothes, give us a second set

1046
01:00:14,200 --> 01:00:15,880
Speaker 1: of clothes so we can wash one and wear the other.

1047
01:00:16,320 --> 01:00:19,080
Speaker 1: That seems smart to me. She's like, we all got

1048
01:00:19,160 --> 01:00:23,600
Speaker 1: fleas up in here trying to pray. So she didn't

1049
01:00:23,600 --> 01:00:26,360
Speaker 1: get that happen to happen they but they she set

1050
01:00:26,360 --> 01:00:29,360
Speaker 1: a rule for very strict vegetarian diets, and like, if

1051
01:00:29,400 --> 01:00:32,880
Speaker 1: you ever left the monastery without permission, you'd be punished

1052
01:00:32,880 --> 01:00:36,200
Speaker 1: by only being given bread and water for twenty four hours.

1053
01:00:36,320 --> 01:00:41,439
Speaker 1: And if you broke your vow of celibacy, you would

1054
01:00:41,440 --> 01:00:45,240
Speaker 1: be severely beaten and kicked out of the church and

1055
01:00:45,280 --> 01:00:49,400
Speaker 1: never to rejoin. So, you know, again, it was pretty

1056
01:00:49,440 --> 01:00:53,160
Speaker 1: strict rules and kind of uncomfortable. But what matters for

1057
01:00:53,280 --> 01:00:57,560
Speaker 1: scholars is that this was an important moment because she

1058
01:00:57,640 --> 01:01:00,760
Speaker 1: was a woman who stepped into the role of a rulemaker,

1059
01:01:01,560 --> 01:01:04,000
Speaker 1: and she was someone who used her education and her

1060
01:01:04,040 --> 01:01:07,720
Speaker 1: intelligence to change these systems, you know, sort of buy

1061
01:01:07,800 --> 01:01:12,800
Speaker 1: women for women. She was through Abalard's advice creating rules

1062
01:01:12,840 --> 01:01:15,080
Speaker 1: for women, and that was something that women hadn't really

1063
01:01:15,080 --> 01:01:18,600
Speaker 1: had the opportunity to do up until this point. So

1064
01:01:18,680 --> 01:01:22,640
Speaker 1: between this and her unconventional views on marriage and the

1065
01:01:22,720 --> 01:01:26,280
Speaker 1: dynamic between men and women, she is considered a foundational

1066
01:01:26,320 --> 01:01:31,080
Speaker 1: figure in modern feminism. In recent decades, as her stories explored,

1067
01:01:31,120 --> 01:01:33,760
Speaker 1: more historians are seeing her as a woman of power

1068
01:01:34,080 --> 01:01:38,400
Speaker 1: and insight, especially in those years after Abalard's death when

1069
01:01:38,440 --> 01:01:42,360
Speaker 1: she was an abbess, just a very very significant figure.

1070
01:01:42,400 --> 01:01:44,920
Speaker 1: Like we start at the beginning of the episode, in

1071
01:01:45,040 --> 01:01:47,600
Speaker 1: recent years, historians have been looking for more women in

1072
01:01:47,640 --> 01:01:50,520
Speaker 1: history to talk about because they're there, and they're there,

1073
01:01:50,520 --> 01:01:53,360
Speaker 1: they either didn't get their records kept or people just

1074
01:01:53,360 --> 01:01:55,880
Speaker 1: didn't dig them up or didn't care when they found them.

1075
01:01:55,920 --> 01:01:57,680
Speaker 1: So now we're getting a lot more about hallowe'en and

1076
01:01:57,680 --> 01:02:01,680
Speaker 1: how cool she was or tried to downplay life or

1077
01:02:01,840 --> 01:02:05,960
Speaker 1: or fully lie about their life, like I know Elizabeth

1078
01:02:05,960 --> 01:02:08,440
Speaker 1: of Bath three. Now people are really questioning all that

1079
01:02:08,880 --> 01:02:11,840
Speaker 1: Bath stuff with her because she was unpopular. People wanted

1080
01:02:11,880 --> 01:02:14,320
Speaker 1: to make her look bad. So it's not it's possible

1081
01:02:14,400 --> 01:02:16,560
Speaker 1: none of that's true. It's possible some of it's true,

1082
01:02:17,120 --> 01:02:20,040
Speaker 1: but not all of it. It's just interesting, as we've

1083
01:02:20,040 --> 01:02:22,680
Speaker 1: talked about before, where you're going through history and you

1084
01:02:22,720 --> 01:02:26,600
Speaker 1: realize a lot of it is just basically shade medium

1085
01:02:26,640 --> 01:02:30,040
Speaker 1: posts some idiot wrote and it just happens to have lasted,

1086
01:02:30,560 --> 01:02:32,000
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, And so we're like, well,

1087
01:02:32,040 --> 01:02:34,320
Speaker 1: I guess that guy was a dick. No, actually, that

1088
01:02:34,400 --> 01:02:36,520
Speaker 1: was just this worst enemy that wrote his life. Right.

1089
01:02:38,040 --> 01:02:40,960
Speaker 1: It's funny. I think of also, not really on that note,

1090
01:02:41,000 --> 01:02:45,440
Speaker 1: but Clementine Churchill, who just didn't go to the effort

1091
01:02:45,480 --> 01:02:48,840
Speaker 1: to make herself historically known, and now we're looking back

1092
01:02:48,880 --> 01:02:51,520
Speaker 1: and seeing what she did and we're like, oh my god,

1093
01:02:51,680 --> 01:02:56,040
Speaker 1: she was incredibly influential and like historically significant and you

1094
01:02:56,080 --> 01:02:58,600
Speaker 1: can see that in history too, right. Is that I'm

1095
01:02:58,640 --> 01:03:01,080
Speaker 1: sort of thinking that with hell Louise. You know, there's

1096
01:03:01,200 --> 01:03:04,080
Speaker 1: when you're a wife and mother, that's a role, a

1097
01:03:04,160 --> 01:03:06,840
Speaker 1: very specific role that you're supposed to play, and there's

1098
01:03:06,880 --> 01:03:09,960
Speaker 1: no room for you to also be a renowned scholar

1099
01:03:10,800 --> 01:03:14,680
Speaker 1: um at least in her mind. In that time. You know,

1100
01:03:15,000 --> 01:03:18,360
Speaker 1: it's it's the role and there's no way to expand

1101
01:03:18,440 --> 01:03:22,960
Speaker 1: that role necessarily very easily at least, And so someone

1102
01:03:22,960 --> 01:03:26,600
Speaker 1: like Clementine might also have in her time the idea

1103
01:03:26,640 --> 01:03:28,880
Speaker 1: of well, I'm a woman. I'm supposed to stand behind

1104
01:03:28,920 --> 01:03:31,480
Speaker 1: my man, do my best for him, make sure everything's good,

1105
01:03:31,520 --> 01:03:34,280
Speaker 1: and keep my fucking trap shut. Abat, women don't brag.

1106
01:03:34,680 --> 01:03:36,680
Speaker 1: That's not a thing. We're not supposed to be modest

1107
01:03:37,240 --> 01:03:40,880
Speaker 1: and um humble, you know what I mean. So why

1108
01:03:40,920 --> 01:03:43,320
Speaker 1: would she It would seem very weird of her to

1109
01:03:43,400 --> 01:03:45,960
Speaker 1: put herself forward like that and tooting her own horn

1110
01:03:46,080 --> 01:03:48,520
Speaker 1: like that would not be an attractive quality in a

1111
01:03:48,560 --> 01:03:50,920
Speaker 1: woman at that time. So you kind of have to

1112
01:03:51,000 --> 01:03:54,600
Speaker 1: fight not only the fact that men were keeping the

1113
01:03:54,640 --> 01:03:57,560
Speaker 1: records and that they weren't necessarily writing about the women,

1114
01:03:57,960 --> 01:04:01,720
Speaker 1: but also that women weren't necessarily considering themselves worth talking

1115
01:04:01,720 --> 01:04:04,480
Speaker 1: about in history, because that would be such an unbecoming

1116
01:04:04,520 --> 01:04:07,000
Speaker 1: thing for them to think about themselves. You know. Go

1117
01:04:07,040 --> 01:04:09,600
Speaker 1: back and check out that Clementine Churchill episode with Winston

1118
01:04:09,680 --> 01:04:12,920
Speaker 1: Churchill is really fascinating if you haven't heard it. So,

1119
01:04:13,040 --> 01:04:16,600
Speaker 1: Helloise died about twenty years later, very close to the

1120
01:04:16,640 --> 01:04:20,040
Speaker 1: same age as Abillard, though the details are murky as

1121
01:04:20,080 --> 01:04:23,640
Speaker 1: to exactly when or why, and her resting place is

1122
01:04:23,680 --> 01:04:27,600
Speaker 1: debated to what's known is that after Abillard's death, she

1123
01:04:27,720 --> 01:04:31,439
Speaker 1: had his bones moved to the Paraclet and entombed there,

1124
01:04:31,880 --> 01:04:35,480
Speaker 1: and she wished to be buried alongside him after her

1125
01:04:35,560 --> 01:04:39,400
Speaker 1: own death. Reportedly, they were kind of moved around several times,

1126
01:04:39,520 --> 01:04:42,920
Speaker 1: including an eighteen o four to the Elise Gardens in Paris,

1127
01:04:43,280 --> 01:04:47,040
Speaker 1: where Napoleon and Josephine paid tribute to them, and it's

1128
01:04:47,040 --> 01:04:51,240
Speaker 1: believed that they currently lie in Pair Laches Cemetery. Um

1129
01:04:51,240 --> 01:04:54,480
Speaker 1: a tomb stands there for them, complete with two full

1130
01:04:54,560 --> 01:04:58,520
Speaker 1: length stone sculptures of a monk and a nun. The

1131
01:04:58,600 --> 01:05:02,360
Speaker 1: Paraclete themselves claim that their bodies are still there and

1132
01:05:02,400 --> 01:05:04,880
Speaker 1: that Pair Laches is just like a monument. There's no

1133
01:05:04,960 --> 01:05:10,000
Speaker 1: bones underneath their statues or anything like that. Other scholars

1134
01:05:10,040 --> 01:05:14,160
Speaker 1: believe that Abillard is in Pear Laches and Heloise's resting

1135
01:05:14,200 --> 01:05:20,520
Speaker 1: place is unknown. UM. I hope they're together together somewhere myself.

1136
01:05:20,560 --> 01:05:23,080
Speaker 1: But if you have known for sure, if you have

1137
01:05:23,240 --> 01:05:28,160
Speaker 1: any information as to the whereabouts of Abelard and Heloise's bones,

1138
01:05:29,200 --> 01:05:31,520
Speaker 1: right to write to Romance and I Heart media dot com.

1139
01:05:32,160 --> 01:05:34,959
Speaker 1: We get a guy who's like living in Wisconsin. It's like, yeah,

1140
01:05:34,960 --> 01:05:37,040
Speaker 1: you know what, I just renovated my basement, and there

1141
01:05:37,120 --> 01:05:42,320
Speaker 1: was a couple of skeletons down there. Turns out, in

1142
01:05:42,440 --> 01:05:46,680
Speaker 1: seventeen seventeen, the poet Alexander Pope wrote a very long

1143
01:05:46,800 --> 01:05:51,360
Speaker 1: verse titled Eloisa to Abelard, which is based on their story,

1144
01:05:51,480 --> 01:05:54,920
Speaker 1: and it talks about their inherent incompatibility in their religious

1145
01:05:54,920 --> 01:05:59,120
Speaker 1: circumstances and now challenging the memories of their passionate years

1146
01:05:59,160 --> 01:06:01,720
Speaker 1: together are while they're supposed to be all married to

1147
01:06:01,800 --> 01:06:06,080
Speaker 1: God now. And this theme of wanting to forget someone

1148
01:06:06,120 --> 01:06:09,280
Speaker 1: you love dearly because it's too painful now comes up

1149
01:06:09,440 --> 01:06:12,200
Speaker 1: in a modern movie that takes its title from a

1150
01:06:12,240 --> 01:06:16,240
Speaker 1: line in this poem. So let's go down to poetry

1151
01:06:16,320 --> 01:06:20,080
Speaker 1: Corner and hear just a brief piece from Pope's Eloisa

1152
01:06:20,160 --> 01:06:25,360
Speaker 1: to Abillard. How happy is the blameless vessels lot the

1153
01:06:25,440 --> 01:06:30,200
Speaker 1: world forgetting by the world forgot eternal sunshine of the

1154
01:06:30,320 --> 01:06:36,360
Speaker 1: spotless mind, each prayer accepted, and each wish resigned. Labor

1155
01:06:36,480 --> 01:06:40,880
Speaker 1: and rest that equal periods keep obedient slumbers that can

1156
01:06:40,920 --> 01:06:47,200
Speaker 1: wake and weep, desires, composed affections, ever, even tears that

1157
01:06:47,320 --> 01:06:52,240
Speaker 1: delight and sighs that waft to heaven. Grace shines around

1158
01:06:52,280 --> 01:06:57,320
Speaker 1: her with Serenus beams and whispering angels prompt her golden

1159
01:06:57,440 --> 01:07:02,480
Speaker 1: dreams for her, the house pairs, the bridal ring for her,

1160
01:07:02,640 --> 01:07:07,920
Speaker 1: white virgins, how manials sing for her, the unfading rows

1161
01:07:08,080 --> 01:07:13,160
Speaker 1: of Eden blooms and wings of Seraph's shed, divine perfumes,

1162
01:07:13,840 --> 01:07:18,160
Speaker 1: two sounds of heavenly harps. She dies away and melts

1163
01:07:18,240 --> 01:07:25,080
Speaker 1: in visions of eternal day. So there you go, if

1164
01:07:25,120 --> 01:07:28,280
Speaker 1: you've ever seen eternal sunshine of the spotless mind. Um,

1165
01:07:28,320 --> 01:07:31,800
Speaker 1: and if you haven't, you should. But very much about

1166
01:07:31,840 --> 01:07:34,680
Speaker 1: those challenging memories, and there's a lot of that in

1167
01:07:34,880 --> 01:07:38,960
Speaker 1: their letters to each other. Um. Hellois especially talks about

1168
01:07:38,960 --> 01:07:42,640
Speaker 1: how difficult it is to remember all these passionate, wonderful

1169
01:07:42,640 --> 01:07:45,560
Speaker 1: times they had together knowing that they're in a position

1170
01:07:45,600 --> 01:07:47,560
Speaker 1: now or that's not something they're going to be able

1171
01:07:47,600 --> 01:07:51,040
Speaker 1: to recreate. H And that's I think the sort of

1172
01:07:51,040 --> 01:07:54,360
Speaker 1: tragedy of their story. Um, you know, in addition to

1173
01:07:54,400 --> 01:07:59,280
Speaker 1: the mutilation, that they had such an incredible thing and

1174
01:07:59,320 --> 01:08:01,600
Speaker 1: then lived so long in a world where it was

1175
01:08:01,640 --> 01:08:07,080
Speaker 1: forbidden afterwards. And Astrolabe just briefly, there's not a ton

1176
01:08:07,120 --> 01:08:10,479
Speaker 1: about him, but he did go into the religious order.

1177
01:08:10,520 --> 01:08:15,760
Speaker 1: He became an abbot himself eventually, yea, yeah, yes, and

1178
01:08:15,800 --> 01:08:18,479
Speaker 1: he was. You know, everybody knew who his father was

1179
01:08:18,680 --> 01:08:21,000
Speaker 1: and parents were, and they you know, he was known

1180
01:08:21,040 --> 01:08:24,519
Speaker 1: to be the son of of Abillard and went on

1181
01:08:24,560 --> 01:08:26,479
Speaker 1: to be an abbot himself. You think there are other

1182
01:08:26,640 --> 01:08:30,439
Speaker 1: monks that were like they made Astrolabe the abbot. I

1183
01:08:30,479 --> 01:08:33,679
Speaker 1: wonder why I couldn't have anything to do with his dad.

1184
01:08:33,800 --> 01:08:38,240
Speaker 1: I guess only my dad was. Yeah, there's not a

1185
01:08:38,280 --> 01:08:40,920
Speaker 1: ton of nepotism in a in a place where you're

1186
01:08:40,920 --> 01:08:45,479
Speaker 1: not allowed to have children. It must have been very

1187
01:08:45,520 --> 01:08:49,000
Speaker 1: shocking to have one. This is not what happens. Wait

1188
01:08:49,040 --> 01:09:00,040
Speaker 1: a minute, he's got a dad. Oh wow, what a

1189
01:09:00,240 --> 01:09:04,120
Speaker 1: what a really fascinating story. And I mean, I hate

1190
01:09:04,160 --> 01:09:07,200
Speaker 1: to say it, but we're scraping the surface on this one.

1191
01:09:07,240 --> 01:09:10,600
Speaker 1: I mean, there's a lot more their letters. Y'all go

1192
01:09:11,360 --> 01:09:13,400
Speaker 1: maybe dig up some of their letters, because they are

1193
01:09:13,439 --> 01:09:16,680
Speaker 1: a long read and they're dns and there. It's not

1194
01:09:16,760 --> 01:09:21,559
Speaker 1: like they're beautiful words of passionate love. But I found

1195
01:09:21,640 --> 01:09:27,080
Speaker 1: Helloi's especially um to be very insightful. And how do

1196
01:09:27,160 --> 01:09:29,879
Speaker 1: we deal with this? It was kind of a common question.

1197
01:09:30,360 --> 01:09:32,919
Speaker 1: She got really mad at him, sometimes in these letters,

1198
01:09:32,960 --> 01:09:36,360
Speaker 1: and he was very dismissive sometimes in his because I

1199
01:09:36,400 --> 01:09:40,639
Speaker 1: think that she was looking for a fantasy in some way,

1200
01:09:40,800 --> 01:09:43,240
Speaker 1: like maybe there's a way where we can live a

1201
01:09:44,400 --> 01:09:47,280
Speaker 1: fraction of this, if you come live here at the abbey,

1202
01:09:47,320 --> 01:09:49,240
Speaker 1: then we can kind of pretend like we still have this.

1203
01:09:50,000 --> 01:09:53,640
Speaker 1: And he was very much again, just very dialectic about it,

1204
01:09:53,720 --> 01:09:56,320
Speaker 1: very objective, and like, no, I'm not going to add

1205
01:09:56,360 --> 01:09:59,879
Speaker 1: emotion into this argument or anything subjective about our feelings.

1206
01:10:00,200 --> 01:10:02,559
Speaker 1: It's just that doesn't logically make sense, so we shouldn't

1207
01:10:02,600 --> 01:10:05,760
Speaker 1: do it. So frustrating when you're talking about something emotional.

1208
01:10:06,680 --> 01:10:08,720
Speaker 1: Let's take all the emotion out of this, and it's like, well,

1209
01:10:08,760 --> 01:10:11,040
Speaker 1: if there was no emotion, there would be no problem, right.

1210
01:10:11,200 --> 01:10:14,160
Speaker 1: The problem is that we have feelings for each other.

1211
01:10:14,439 --> 01:10:18,080
Speaker 1: That is the problem. So you can't take the feelings out. Otherwise,

1212
01:10:18,400 --> 01:10:20,479
Speaker 1: what are we talking about. You can't tie somebody down

1213
01:10:20,479 --> 01:10:22,719
Speaker 1: to the bed and cut off their feelings. You can't

1214
01:10:22,760 --> 01:10:26,519
Speaker 1: do it. Do you think if given the choice between

1215
01:10:26,560 --> 01:10:32,439
Speaker 1: his feelings and his balls, that Avalonde had chosen feelings.

1216
01:10:33,479 --> 01:10:36,800
Speaker 1: I could speculate on that he really loved sex. I know,

1217
01:10:37,320 --> 01:10:39,679
Speaker 1: I feel like you might have taken the balls. Yeah,

1218
01:10:39,800 --> 01:10:41,679
Speaker 1: maybe you might have been like, leave me the balls.

1219
01:10:42,479 --> 01:10:48,120
Speaker 1: I can have emotionless sex, but I can't have sexless emotion. Wow.

1220
01:10:48,240 --> 01:10:52,559
Speaker 1: Hey he was a philosopher, let's say. Yeah. And in

1221
01:10:52,640 --> 01:10:56,439
Speaker 1: another weird Charlie Kaufman reference Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind,

1222
01:10:56,520 --> 01:11:00,679
Speaker 1: written by him. Also being John Malkovich is an amazing

1223
01:11:00,720 --> 01:11:05,639
Speaker 1: movie that features the scene where John Cusack is doing

1224
01:11:05,680 --> 01:11:08,960
Speaker 1: a puppet show for some kids, and he's doing the

1225
01:11:09,000 --> 01:11:14,000
Speaker 1: story of Abalard and Heloise in that does the castration,

1226
01:11:14,320 --> 01:11:16,960
Speaker 1: and the girl who's watching the puppet show, her dad

1227
01:11:17,000 --> 01:11:19,439
Speaker 1: walks up and sees it and then beats the ship

1228
01:11:19,520 --> 01:11:22,160
Speaker 1: out of Jock Cusack because he's like, why are you

1229
01:11:22,200 --> 01:11:26,800
Speaker 1: showing two kids? So Charlie Kaufin clearly a fan of

1230
01:11:26,840 --> 01:11:30,800
Speaker 1: the Hellois and habal Ard story. Clearly Yeah, And I

1231
01:11:30,840 --> 01:11:33,200
Speaker 1: hope you're a big fan of this story too. Yeah.

1232
01:11:33,280 --> 01:11:35,120
Speaker 1: I found it fascinating that there's so much more you

1233
01:11:35,120 --> 01:11:37,720
Speaker 1: can learn about these folks, a huge I mean, you

1234
01:11:37,720 --> 01:11:41,760
Speaker 1: could do just a whole mini series, a six hour podcast,

1235
01:11:41,880 --> 01:11:46,439
Speaker 1: an HBO TV show five seasons long about these two

1236
01:11:46,840 --> 01:11:49,519
Speaker 1: and their whole crazy story. Um, So, if you want

1237
01:11:49,560 --> 01:11:52,519
Speaker 1: to learn more, about them. I I definitely suggest uh

1238
01:11:52,680 --> 01:11:56,559
Speaker 1: doing some further research because it's it's a beautiful and

1239
01:11:56,600 --> 01:12:00,000
Speaker 1: difficult story for sure. Yeah. Yeah, And of course, please

1240
01:12:00,120 --> 01:12:03,160
Speaker 1: tell us what you think about this story, about any

1241
01:12:03,200 --> 01:12:06,760
Speaker 1: of our ramblings about Charlie Kaufman, whatever, Just reach out.

1242
01:12:06,880 --> 01:12:09,439
Speaker 1: We love hearing from you. Our email is Romance at

1243
01:12:09,439 --> 01:12:11,439
Speaker 1: I heart media dot com. You can find us on

1244
01:12:11,479 --> 01:12:14,200
Speaker 1: Twitter and Instagram. I'm at Oh great, it's Eli. I'm

1245
01:12:14,240 --> 01:12:18,520
Speaker 1: at Dynamite Boom and the show is at ridic Romance. Yeah,

1246
01:12:18,800 --> 01:12:22,960
Speaker 1: and hopefully Barbara and Allison, you enjoyed our retelling of this.

1247
01:12:23,640 --> 01:12:26,040
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for this suggestion. It was totally

1248
01:12:26,080 --> 01:12:29,320
Speaker 1: an awesome story to dive into, so thank you for that.

1249
01:12:29,800 --> 01:12:33,000
Speaker 1: We'll be back with a new episode post taste. Can't wait. Alright,

1250
01:12:33,200 --> 01:12:37,040
Speaker 1: so long friends, it's time to go. Thanks so listening

1251
01:12:37,120 --> 01:12:40,479
Speaker 1: to our show. Tell your friends names uncles in this

1252
01:12:40,960 --> 01:12:43,120
Speaker 1: to listen to our show ridiculous. Well n