1 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:09,520 Speaker 1: A young teen boy. Oh if you could see this boy, 2 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:17,720 Speaker 1: so charismatic, so smart, so handsome, just the apple of 3 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 1: his parents. I why did Claudio end up dead? Not 4 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:26,640 Speaker 1: just dead? And no, he's not hanging out on the 5 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 1: street selling karak or buying krak. He's not running into 6 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:33,120 Speaker 1: a wall green he's trying to steal and get away 7 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:37,280 Speaker 1: with it. He's not speeding while he's drunken. High. He's 8 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:42,400 Speaker 1: at school. Not only is he at school, he's at 9 00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:50,960 Speaker 1: a very fancy private school, and he was forced into 10 00:00:51,600 --> 00:01:01,080 Speaker 1: solitary confinement. Now, wait a minute, what solitary confinement at school? 11 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 1: Not just school where I went, public school, I mean 12 00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:10,320 Speaker 1: a fancy school where they pay fifty grand a year. Yeah, 13 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:13,679 Speaker 1: solitary confinement. Let me just go back for a moment. 14 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:17,039 Speaker 1: When I was prosecuting violent felonies in inner city Atlanta 15 00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:19,880 Speaker 1: for over a decade, I would often have to go 16 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:25,920 Speaker 1: to a place called Alto, and it was a youth facility, 17 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:29,240 Speaker 1: as it was euphemistically called, it was GeV jail. And 18 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:30,959 Speaker 1: I don't mean the jail where you sit around and 19 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 1: talk to psychologists and you do word puzzles and you 20 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:38,760 Speaker 1: cut things out with a construction paper, not that GeV jail. 21 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:44,840 Speaker 1: This was GeV jail for sixteen, seventeen, eighteen, nineteen year olds. 22 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:48,400 Speaker 1: That a committed offense is like rape, armed robbery, arson, 23 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 1: trafficking and drugs. Those juvenals even they didn't have solitary confinement. 24 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 1: What are we back in the middle little ages where 25 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 1: people are tortured in the dungeon. Claudio is dead at 26 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 1: a fancy private school and solitary confinement. I mean, see Grace, 27 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:17,520 Speaker 1: this is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us 28 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:20,600 Speaker 1: at Fox Nation. In series eleven. All I can say 29 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:25,400 Speaker 1: is heads are gonna roll. Listen to this. Elisabetta and 30 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:29,880 Speaker 1: Morrowmandia run a successful frozen Italian pizza export firm called 31 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:33,040 Speaker 1: FIOD that generates about fifteen million a year in sales 32 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:35,840 Speaker 1: in Italy. When their son Claudio told his parents that 33 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:38,720 Speaker 1: he planned to follow in his father's footsteps in the business, 34 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 1: they elected to send their son to the elite boarding 35 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 1: school ef Academy in New York. The tuition runs around 36 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:47,360 Speaker 1: sixty six thousand dollars a year for full time boarders 37 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:51,239 Speaker 1: and promises a rigorous academic program that would allow Claudio 38 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:54,960 Speaker 1: to fulfill his dream of attending a top university in Italy. 39 00:02:55,280 --> 00:03:01,920 Speaker 1: Sorry correction, it wasn't fifty grand. It's sixty six thousand 40 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:06,359 Speaker 1: dollars a year. Now people often ask me what's your 41 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 1: favorite case you've ever prosecuted? A covered like, what's your 42 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 1: favorite child? I don't have a favorite. And Plus, how 43 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 1: can you talk about murders as if they're a favorite. 44 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:19,519 Speaker 1: One's more favorite murder than the other. I'm not saying 45 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 1: that I expect more or less out of a school, 46 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 1: but I do know when you're paying sixty six thousand 47 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:31,560 Speaker 1: dollars a year, the last thing you expect is for 48 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 1: your child to die in solitary confinement. Take a listen 49 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 1: now to our friends at crime online dot com. Claudio 50 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:45,800 Speaker 1: enrolled in EF Academy's two year International Baccalaureate program in 51 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:50,120 Speaker 1: New York, which provides a globally recognized elite diploma. In 52 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 1: his first year, Claudio excelled. His teacher said he was 53 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 1: a very good math student, a great joy to having class, 54 00:03:56,320 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 1: and respectful and honest. Claudio liked IF Academy so much 55 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 1: his sister joined him at the school for his senior year. 56 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:06,240 Speaker 1: COVID delayed the return of Claudio and one of his 57 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 1: sisters to EF academy, causing him to fall behind in class. 58 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:12,480 Speaker 1: When Claudio and his sister finally returned to the campus 59 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 1: on January twenty fifth, he was inundated with assignments that 60 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:20,200 Speaker 1: had accumulated while he was quarantined, and all had impending deadlines. 61 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:23,159 Speaker 1: Shortly after, a Claudio suffered the unexpected loss of a 62 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:25,919 Speaker 1: close family member who died of a heart condition. The 63 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 1: loss of set him terribly and led him to seek 64 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:32,240 Speaker 1: counseling from the school's director of mental health services, Chelsea Levis. 65 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 1: Claudio had begun seeing Levis for mental health counseling more 66 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:38,919 Speaker 1: than a year earlier after witnessing the suicide attempt of 67 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:43,120 Speaker 1: another student who was expelled and placed in solitary confinement. Okay, wait, 68 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:47,839 Speaker 1: we've already had another student who was expelled and placed 69 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 1: in solitary confinement and had a suicide attempt. And you know, 70 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:57,279 Speaker 1: when I first heard about the story, and this was 71 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:01,920 Speaker 1: an Italian family, I thought this happened in somewhere where. 72 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:05,560 Speaker 1: In my mind, this just couldn't happen here in the US, 73 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:09,320 Speaker 1: And I just airbrushed it away, thinking, well, they don't 74 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:15,240 Speaker 1: have regulations and rules concerning schools. I had it all 75 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 1: wrong joining me in all star panel to make sense 76 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:19,200 Speaker 1: of what we know right now. But I want you 77 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 1: to have one thing in your head. Remember this, the 78 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 1: teacher said, very good Mass student, a great joy to 79 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:32,640 Speaker 1: have in class, respectful and honest. He loved the school 80 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:35,960 Speaker 1: at the beginning so much. His sister joined him there 81 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:41,599 Speaker 1: respectful on his great Mass student joy. That's what he 82 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:44,480 Speaker 1: was called. Okay, this is what I don't understand, Alexis 83 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:47,160 Speaker 1: terres Chuck joining me from crime Online. You know, I 84 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:51,239 Speaker 1: know you have an apple of your eye. As I say, baby, 85 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:54,600 Speaker 1: it's not a baby anymore, your little boy. And of 86 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:57,039 Speaker 1: course you and I both, like so many parents, would 87 00:05:57,040 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 1: do anything within the law to advance them one step further, 88 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 1: make their life one bit easier, so they can have 89 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:10,760 Speaker 1: happiness and success as they grow up. And here are 90 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:15,800 Speaker 1: these parents working to send their child what they think 91 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:19,839 Speaker 1: is the ticket to a great life sixty six thousand 92 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:23,720 Speaker 1: dollars a year. Where is this place, Alexis. It is 93 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:26,719 Speaker 1: in Thornwood in New York. It is the EF Academy. 94 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:30,680 Speaker 1: It is an internationally recognized school. Wait wait, wait, where's Thornwood. 95 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:34,119 Speaker 1: I've lived in New York for years and years. Where 96 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 1: is Thornwood Believe it is in Westchester County. Oh okay, hey, 97 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 1: I know about Westchester. That's where all the rich people live. Yes, 98 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 1: I'm very familiar with the ilk that live in Westchester. Okay, 99 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:57,240 Speaker 1: so Alexus Terreschuk Thornwood E f Academy in Westchester, internationally 100 00:06:57,240 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 1: recognized school. Is that what you're saying? Yes, Elizabeth F 101 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:05,359 Speaker 1: is in frank Academy. Yeah. Let's take a listen to 102 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 1: more of what we know about what happened to Claudio. 103 00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 1: Take a listen to our forensic crime online. Soon after 104 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:16,840 Speaker 1: learning of his relatives death, Claudio admitted to hiring a 105 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:19,920 Speaker 1: classmate to draft a math paper for him. As punishment, 106 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 1: school officials expelled him and forced him into solitary confinement 107 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:27,960 Speaker 1: on February fourteenth until his parents could pick him up 108 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:31,920 Speaker 1: from Italy. Officials told Claudio not to leave the isolation room, 109 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 1: and they decided that all of his meals would be 110 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:38,160 Speaker 1: delivered to him. Okay, let me just analyze what I'm 111 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 1: just hearing right now. Karen start joining me. Renowned New 112 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 1: York psychologist joining us from Manhattan. You can find her 113 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 1: at Karen Stark dot com. That's Karen with a see 114 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:52,600 Speaker 1: you know Karen the other night, and I hate this 115 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 1: because I feel like it was my fault, but I 116 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:58,840 Speaker 1: know it wasn't, but I can't help but feel that way. Lucy, 117 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 1: my little girl. The Twins just turned fifteen this past week. 118 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:06,920 Speaker 1: Him was up at ten fifteen, still trying to finish 119 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 1: an ap World history d b Q. What is that? 120 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 1: Data based questions? And they're very involved. She was tired, 121 00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:23,679 Speaker 1: she had been sick, and she just burst into tears. 122 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:25,880 Speaker 1: And she's not one that cries. None of us really 123 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:29,560 Speaker 1: cry a lot. And I felt so bad for her 124 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 1: and tried to help her. Of course, I couldn't answer 125 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 1: the questions or help her find the answers and the stress. 126 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:41,080 Speaker 1: And I'm thinking about Claudio. He was out for a 127 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:44,320 Speaker 1: while because of COVID. He his mother, his sister. I've 128 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:46,720 Speaker 1: forgotten who they all had COVID. He gets back and 129 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:51,280 Speaker 1: he's behind and he's trying to catch up. And Karen 130 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:53,959 Speaker 1: Stark I have told the Twins five hundred times, Listen, 131 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:56,920 Speaker 1: I don't want you to make an F. I don't 132 00:08:56,920 --> 00:08:59,120 Speaker 1: even want you to make a C. But if you do, 133 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:04,400 Speaker 1: it's not the end of the world. Whatever you do, 134 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:09,200 Speaker 1: don't cheat, Hey, you'll get caught. B If you don't 135 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:11,920 Speaker 1: get caught, you'll get a horrible reputation. You don't want 136 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:14,120 Speaker 1: to be at work one day and somebody go, oh, 137 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:16,640 Speaker 1: there's Lucy Lynch and John David. They cheated their whole 138 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 1: way through school. No, take the f and then do 139 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:23,240 Speaker 1: better next time. It's not the end of the world, 140 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:26,800 Speaker 1: but the stress here. And this is a great student. 141 00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:31,560 Speaker 1: Claudio was behind and he got another student to write 142 00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:35,600 Speaker 1: a paper and he got busted. Karen Starr, It's not 143 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:40,959 Speaker 1: just that Nancy. He had recently lost a family member, 144 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:44,840 Speaker 1: so there was a really stressful life event that occurred. 145 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:47,440 Speaker 1: Not that it was okay for him to have somebody 146 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:50,400 Speaker 1: to do the paper, but it was such an extremely 147 00:09:50,559 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 1: harsh and isolating punishment that he suffered. And if you 148 00:09:56,480 --> 00:10:02,000 Speaker 1: look at the oneing side of suicide children, for teenagers, 149 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:04,080 Speaker 1: that's one of the things you have to watch for 150 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:09,080 Speaker 1: is a recent loss and a situation where you have 151 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:14,040 Speaker 1: no contact with your friends or your family being excluded 152 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:16,760 Speaker 1: that way. I mean, Karen start they don't even treat 153 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:19,200 Speaker 1: you like this on death row. And if you're in 154 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:24,040 Speaker 1: Max security, you still get to get out of your 155 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:28,520 Speaker 1: cell and exercise for an hour. A day or however long. 156 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:32,760 Speaker 1: It is just they don't even treat hardened criminals in 157 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 1: the US like this. I've worked with a lot of teenagers, 158 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:41,800 Speaker 1: there have been incidents like this before where kids are 159 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:46,240 Speaker 1: it's the first time of sense, so I'm really surprised 160 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:49,360 Speaker 1: that he's expelled from the school to begin with, and 161 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:55,720 Speaker 1: then such a terribly harsh, isolating punishment. It really is 162 00:11:09,679 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece Guys with Me an incredible panel. 163 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:19,199 Speaker 1: I want to go now to two of our panel members. 164 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:22,560 Speaker 1: Let me just tell you who all is here. Jeremy Whiteley, 165 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:28,960 Speaker 1: who survived and allegedly extremely abuse of school Provo Canyon. 166 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:34,800 Speaker 1: You can find him now at Unsilenced dot org or 167 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:41,320 Speaker 1: on Twitter at Jeremy Whiteley. Jen Robinson, also the survivor 168 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:46,439 Speaker 1: of Provo, advocate focusing on institutional child abuse. You can 169 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:51,440 Speaker 1: find her at Youth Indisorder dot com, also on Insta 170 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 1: at Jen Robinson Underscore. Guy Stevens with Me advocate founder 171 00:11:56,040 --> 00:12:02,440 Speaker 1: Alliance Against Seclusion and Restraint. And Kelly Hyman, trial lawyer 172 00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:06,920 Speaker 1: joining us out of My AMMI, author of Build Back Better. 173 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:09,600 Speaker 1: First to you, Jen Robinson, what do you make of 174 00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:14,440 Speaker 1: what you're hearing happened to this young teen boy, Claudio. Well, 175 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:18,719 Speaker 1: it was the heartbreaking story and I sadly resonated with this. 176 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:21,760 Speaker 1: Does it remind you of Provo? Oh for sure. I 177 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:25,080 Speaker 1: was in Provo for about two years, starting at the 178 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:28,200 Speaker 1: age of fourteen, and a really big part of my 179 00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:32,160 Speaker 1: experience that I've had to unravel as an adult. Why 180 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:37,000 Speaker 1: were you at Provo at fourteen for depression? I similar 181 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:39,959 Speaker 1: to Claudio. I witnessed the death of a loved one 182 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:43,440 Speaker 1: when I was about nine years old, and that, along 183 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 1: with some various other traumas in my early life, just 184 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:49,800 Speaker 1: kind of turned into this very young depression. Jen. You 185 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 1: know what, Jen, Jen, I am not a shrink. I've 186 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:54,600 Speaker 1: never been that. One's ever accused me of knowing that 187 00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 1: entire area. But it seems to me, if you're depressed, 188 00:12:57,760 --> 00:12:59,439 Speaker 1: the last thing you need is to be away from 189 00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:03,600 Speaker 1: your family and a loving home. But that's sad. I 190 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:06,480 Speaker 1: would tend to agree with you. Tell me what happened. 191 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:10,440 Speaker 1: So while I was at Provo, I was actually there twice. 192 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:13,400 Speaker 1: I went for about fifteen months when I was fourteen, 193 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:17,679 Speaker 1: and it was very difficult, but I wouldn't stay very eventful. 194 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:22,679 Speaker 1: They did shave my head, which was, you know, difficult, 195 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:25,880 Speaker 1: and it kind of told me what the tone of 196 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:28,400 Speaker 1: the stay was going to be right away. I hope 197 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:32,440 Speaker 1: you can hear yourself, because everybody in this studio just 198 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:35,160 Speaker 1: went what you said. It wasn't too bad they shaved 199 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:37,839 Speaker 1: my head. I mean, right there, I think that's bad. Yeah. 200 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:39,920 Speaker 1: You know, I've had to put all this in perspective 201 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:42,120 Speaker 1: more and more as I've gotten older, and especially when 202 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:45,079 Speaker 1: I became a mother myself and really understood the gravity 203 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 1: of the harm, you know, not just to me, but 204 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:49,320 Speaker 1: to all the children around me. And you know, that's 205 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:52,160 Speaker 1: something that we all carry is is knowing what happened 206 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:54,600 Speaker 1: to us in layers. You know, you don't get it 207 00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:57,040 Speaker 1: when you're a kid. Children don't understand abuse as abuse 208 00:13:57,080 --> 00:14:01,000 Speaker 1: when it's happening. They're just trying to adapt. And so 209 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:03,360 Speaker 1: you know, I went home after my first day. It 210 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:07,440 Speaker 1: was very um, you know, rigorous, militaristic. They run it 211 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:10,240 Speaker 1: with a kind of behavioral modification focus. So this is 212 00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:13,600 Speaker 1: not an elite academy. This is not an academic focus. 213 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:17,000 Speaker 1: This is behavior modification focus that they promised the parents, 214 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:19,480 Speaker 1: We're going to fix your kid in a matter of 215 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:23,120 Speaker 1: months if you send them here or they're taking kids 216 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:27,200 Speaker 1: from foster care and juvenile justice. So after fifteen months 217 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:30,440 Speaker 1: they went home, did not do well because the treatment 218 00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:34,480 Speaker 1: doesn't work, and then they sent me back and that's 219 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:38,800 Speaker 1: when I was placed in isolation. A lot. They had 220 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 1: a cement cell that they called observation. They actually had 221 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:44,480 Speaker 1: four of these in the building and at any given 222 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:47,640 Speaker 1: time there is usually at least one child being left 223 00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:52,120 Speaker 1: in that cell. And I spent I mean countless hours 224 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:54,160 Speaker 1: well you know, left in there. You know, I'm just 225 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:58,520 Speaker 1: thinking about my children right now, Jen, thinking of putting 226 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:02,280 Speaker 1: my son or my daughter and a cement cell at 227 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:07,000 Speaker 1: that age. Jeremy Whitely with me also a survivor. What 228 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:10,160 Speaker 1: do you make of what happened? And it's a tragic 229 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:15,440 Speaker 1: demonstration on how misunderstood mental healthcare condia, especially in schools. 230 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:17,960 Speaker 1: And it seems like he didn't meet anyone qualified enough 231 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:23,120 Speaker 1: for help, and the school provided discipline instead of the 232 00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 1: appropriate necessary and mental healthcare. Jeremy, I know we're talking 233 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 1: about Claudio right now, but what happened to you at 234 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:34,440 Speaker 1: Provo Um? Well, I went there because you know, I 235 00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:37,600 Speaker 1: was dealing with depression and I told my parents I'd 236 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:40,760 Speaker 1: rather die than live with them. And that's what I 237 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:44,120 Speaker 1: got me sent to PROVO. And it wasn't anything like 238 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:50,200 Speaker 1: the brochures and stuff that I watched I saw when 239 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:52,760 Speaker 1: I was there. Probo as marketed as a therapy people 240 00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:56,120 Speaker 1: in school, so you know, an emphasized academics. But it 241 00:15:56,240 --> 00:16:03,200 Speaker 1: also heavily, heavily incorporated behavior on psychological therapies UM into 242 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:07,520 Speaker 1: the school program. UM. It was a little bit different 243 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:12,880 Speaker 1: from you know Gen's experience UM for me, UM, but 244 00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 1: there is a lot of isolation. You know, if we got, 245 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:18,880 Speaker 1: if we got, if we cheated on a test, you know, 246 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:21,080 Speaker 1: we would be put in a place called investment and 247 00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:23,960 Speaker 1: we have to stand up against the wall for hours 248 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 1: the days at a time UM as punishment. UM. A 249 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:32,440 Speaker 1: lot of kids that came they went to Provo also 250 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:35,520 Speaker 1: went to one of some of these elite schools. You know, 251 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:37,360 Speaker 1: they were get in trouble there and then they came 252 00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 1: to Provo. UM. Some of my friends that happened to UM, 253 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:44,720 Speaker 1: you know, some of them to get handcuffed in the 254 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:49,800 Speaker 1: middle of the night and they regard to Provo UM, 255 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:52,880 Speaker 1: this is a horrible I just can't imagine a young 256 00:16:52,960 --> 00:17:01,920 Speaker 1: team like my children or Alexis yours soon being handcuffed 257 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:03,800 Speaker 1: in the middle of the night. Guys, I want you 258 00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:07,280 Speaker 1: to hear more about Claudio. Take a listen to our 259 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:11,000 Speaker 1: friends at crime Online. According to a lawsuit, Claudio screamed 260 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:14,000 Speaker 1: and cried for help while being held in solitary confinement, 261 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:18,520 Speaker 1: while school officials allegedly ignored his pleas and refused his parents' 262 00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:20,960 Speaker 1: request that they allow him to leave the room they 263 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:23,600 Speaker 1: were keeping him in. The day before he was expected 264 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:26,840 Speaker 1: to depart, Claudio interacted with at least three school staff 265 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:29,600 Speaker 1: members while displaying signs of attempted suicide on his neck, 266 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 1: according to the complaint, which notes that up to fifteen 267 00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:35,240 Speaker 1: of his classmates may have also seen the marks when 268 00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:38,160 Speaker 1: they visited him to say goodbye, and many asked him 269 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:41,520 Speaker 1: questions about it. The complaint states that Claudio said he 270 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:45,400 Speaker 1: fell in the shower, so he covered up a suicide attempt. 271 00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:50,359 Speaker 1: There are now up to fifteen witnesses. If the other 272 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:52,440 Speaker 1: students saw it to the point where they were saying, 273 00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:58,080 Speaker 1: what happened to your neck? The teachers and the administration 274 00:17:58,119 --> 00:18:01,240 Speaker 1: didn't see it. Joining me. Guy Stevens, advocate found or 275 00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:06,119 Speaker 1: Alliance Against Seclusion and restraint at and seclusion dot Org. 276 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:10,679 Speaker 1: Yeah you gotta jump in man, Yeah, absolutely, you know 277 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:14,119 Speaker 1: this is heartbreaking to start with, to hear a story 278 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:18,480 Speaker 1: like this and understand what happened and what the result is. Unfortunately, 279 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:22,239 Speaker 1: I'm not surprised. I'm not shoctics, as some of your 280 00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:26,040 Speaker 1: other guests have expressed as well. You know, Unfortunately I 281 00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:30,320 Speaker 1: learned the hard way that kids are sometimes physically restraint secluded. 282 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:35,440 Speaker 1: You know, have a lot of other really adversive discipline 283 00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:39,480 Speaker 1: practices that are that are subjected to them in the 284 00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:41,680 Speaker 1: name often of behavior, in the name of discipline, and 285 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:43,200 Speaker 1: the name of rules, in the name of a lot 286 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:45,639 Speaker 1: of things. I have a son who's Nord of Virgin 287 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 1: who was being restrained and secluded in the public school. 288 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:51,160 Speaker 1: I would have never even imagined that was something could 289 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:54,360 Speaker 1: have happened. Hearing the words solitary confinement in the context 290 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:58,120 Speaker 1: of a school, it's mind blowing. Again, who would imagine 291 00:18:58,119 --> 00:19:01,840 Speaker 1: the kids might be put into solitary confine? Absolutely mind 292 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:04,920 Speaker 1: blowing to hear something like that happening. Unfortunately, these kinds 293 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:08,360 Speaker 1: of things happen more frequently than a lot of people realize, 294 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:11,280 Speaker 1: and they happen in public schools. They happen in private schools. 295 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:15,119 Speaker 1: They happen in behaviorally focused schools. They happen in elite 296 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:19,800 Speaker 1: schools like this, where kids are restrained, secluded, suspended, expelled, 297 00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:23,399 Speaker 1: subjective corporal punishment. We solve nineteen states that allow you 298 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 1: to hit a kid in public school, and again, unfortunately, 299 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:29,120 Speaker 1: these things are often happening in the name of behavior. 300 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:31,320 Speaker 1: I totally got hit in the school. I got hit 301 00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:34,000 Speaker 1: in the first grade for getting it. Yeah, you're supposed 302 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:37,200 Speaker 1: to circle the right answer, and I circled it and finished, 303 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:41,200 Speaker 1: and then I started drawing flowers on the circles. My 304 00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:44,080 Speaker 1: first grade teacher, Miss Willis, hit me so hard I 305 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:46,359 Speaker 1: fell over on a stack of books. I can tell 306 00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:48,840 Speaker 1: you this. I never drew another flower in that glass again. 307 00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:52,560 Speaker 1: So you're right, that was public school. Kelly Hyman, high 308 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:55,480 Speaker 1: profile lawyer joining us out of Miami, author of Bill 309 00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:59,040 Speaker 1: Back Better. Kelly, but I am hearing with the backdrop 310 00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:03,159 Speaker 1: of what guy Jeremy and Jim are saying. The school 311 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:08,240 Speaker 1: had noticed, They knew that he was trying to commit suicide. 312 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:10,880 Speaker 1: He had these bruises all around his neck. You don't 313 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:13,680 Speaker 1: get that from fall. For Pete's sake, Nanthy, you bring 314 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:15,639 Speaker 1: up a really good point. Thank you so much for 315 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:18,080 Speaker 1: having me on your show. Absolutely, and I think that's 316 00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:21,040 Speaker 1: something that's going to come out if this case actually 317 00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:24,560 Speaker 1: goes to trial. I think that they will reach some 318 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:27,520 Speaker 1: kind of resolution and try and resolve this matter. But 319 00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:30,360 Speaker 1: we also have to think about the consequences for other 320 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:34,240 Speaker 1: children going forward. As you noted that he had a 321 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:37,520 Speaker 1: friend who tried to commit suicide and that the school 322 00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:40,280 Speaker 1: knew that, and also that he was dealing with COVID 323 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:42,880 Speaker 1: and a lot of kids are suffering from mental health 324 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:46,280 Speaker 1: issues because of COVID, being isolated not around their friends. 325 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:49,040 Speaker 1: And then he also had a family member that had 326 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:51,600 Speaker 1: some health conditions as well, and he's dealing with all 327 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:54,160 Speaker 1: that now. We also have to remember that the school 328 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:57,359 Speaker 1: has said that allegations made him the complaints that they 329 00:20:57,359 --> 00:21:01,080 Speaker 1: are not actually accurate, and that he wasn't locked during 330 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:03,160 Speaker 1: the time that he was there. But I think noticed 331 00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:06,240 Speaker 1: this key. If they noticed that something he has marks 332 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:09,440 Speaker 1: on his neck, it didn't do anything, it didn't act anything, 333 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:13,159 Speaker 1: then there's a really strong argument that there was negligence 334 00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:17,040 Speaker 1: on their behalf. Absolutely, of course they're saying that's not true, 335 00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:19,240 Speaker 1: but of course they are And I guarantee the last 336 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:24,040 Speaker 1: thing they want the school academy sixty six grand a 337 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:28,119 Speaker 1: year as a trial, because you know we're going to 338 00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:32,359 Speaker 1: be on row one, front and center, hearing everything and 339 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:36,320 Speaker 1: talking about them. It didn't end there. Take a listen 340 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:40,520 Speaker 1: to investigative reporter Dave Mack. According to the complaint filed 341 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:44,800 Speaker 1: by Claudio's family, ef Academy kept Claudio in solitary confinement 342 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:49,760 Speaker 1: without the necessary intervention, counseling, guidance, medical care, mental health care, 343 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:53,679 Speaker 1: and supervision. The next morning, Claudio's sister asked Levise to 344 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:56,240 Speaker 1: check on her brother after she hadn't heard from him 345 00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:58,679 Speaker 1: that day. Levis told the girl that she knocked on 346 00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:00,960 Speaker 1: the door but nobody answered, leading her to be leave. 347 00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:04,119 Speaker 1: That he was asleep. When she stopped by the room again. 348 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:08,359 Speaker 1: Later she found him dead by apparent suicide. Karen Stark, 349 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:12,040 Speaker 1: The sister was asking and asking and asking about him, 350 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:15,040 Speaker 1: and then he's found dead. Why did the little sister 351 00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:18,160 Speaker 1: have to be asking about her brother? If she's concerned 352 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:21,280 Speaker 1: about him, shouldn't the authorities at the school be concerned 353 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:24,439 Speaker 1: about him? Are there no regulations? I mean, the sister 354 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:27,520 Speaker 1: has to find her brother dead. It's unacceptable. That this 355 00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:30,840 Speaker 1: is happening in the school where they should be much 356 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:36,920 Speaker 1: more aware of what happens to their children, the children 357 00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:39,600 Speaker 1: that they're entrusted to take care of. Did you get 358 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:42,960 Speaker 1: the just to this he was quote it was either 359 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:48,560 Speaker 1: the sister or love us who was the person in charge? Stay? 360 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:53,480 Speaker 1: She quote found him dead? I heard Guy Stevens jumping in. 361 00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:56,800 Speaker 1: How do you find somebody dead? Didn't we learn even 362 00:22:56,840 --> 00:23:01,480 Speaker 1: in jail, remember in the case of Jeffrey Epstein, how 363 00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:05,240 Speaker 1: they have monitors and you do safety checks. How do 364 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:07,920 Speaker 1: you just find somebody dad? How long had he been 365 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:10,879 Speaker 1: in there without being checked on? Yeah? Well, you know, 366 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:13,480 Speaker 1: let's let's be real clear about this. The use of 367 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:17,800 Speaker 1: solitary confinement should never have been considered, never should have 368 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:21,000 Speaker 1: been an option, never should have been a legal option. 369 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:23,479 Speaker 1: You know. The fact that we have kids that are 370 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:25,600 Speaker 1: kids in youth, it are we strained, secluded, put in 371 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:29,199 Speaker 1: isolation in public and private schools across the country is 372 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:33,679 Speaker 1: just absolutely mind blowing. Not only an isolation, yeah, not 373 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 1: only isolation, but not checking on them. Even hardened criminals 374 00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:43,639 Speaker 1: like Jeffrey Epstein, like killers, are checked on routinely and 375 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:47,480 Speaker 1: have monitors to make sure they're okay, take a listen 376 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:50,560 Speaker 1: to our friends at News twelve Westchester. Claudio was in 377 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,880 Speaker 1: his senior year at EF Academy when he hung himself 378 00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:57,520 Speaker 1: on February seventeenth, after he was put in solitary confinement 379 00:23:57,560 --> 00:24:00,440 Speaker 1: for nearly four days for cheating on a mat assignment. 380 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:06,840 Speaker 1: Had Cloudio been treated under the same standards that apply 381 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:11,200 Speaker 1: under New York stayed law in the Department of Education, 382 00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:15,000 Speaker 1: Claudio would be here with us today. The lawsuit points 383 00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:18,240 Speaker 1: the finger at school officials for isolating Claudio knowing his 384 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:21,520 Speaker 1: mental health was suffering, saying he was enduring serious personal 385 00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:28,399 Speaker 1: and academic hardships. Completely irresponsible and frankly reckless in the 386 00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:31,959 Speaker 1: disregard for the safety, the well being and the mental 387 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:36,719 Speaker 1: health of Claudio Mania. Have you ever wondered why inmates 388 00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:41,600 Speaker 1: are walking around in those athletic slip on shoes because 389 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:44,720 Speaker 1: they can't have shoestrings. Why can't they not have shoestrings 390 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:48,320 Speaker 1: so they can't kill themselves or somebody else? My question, 391 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:53,879 Speaker 1: as you put this very depressed boy, very upset, he's 392 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:58,160 Speaker 1: leaving the next day. He's had a death in the family, 393 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:01,920 Speaker 1: he's behind because the COVID he had somebody else work 394 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:05,680 Speaker 1: on a math paper. He got busted for cheating. He's 395 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:08,600 Speaker 1: at the end of his rope. And I don't mean 396 00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:12,520 Speaker 1: that as a pun. My question now is not only 397 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 1: was he improperly placed in isolation, he also had the 398 00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:27,080 Speaker 1: materials with him to hang himself. How air responsible is this? 399 00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:30,320 Speaker 1: I mean the school might as well just hung him themselves. 400 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:34,880 Speaker 1: What do the parents say? They aren't devastated. I don't 401 00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:41,480 Speaker 1: want to be presented to us saying that Claudia was karisma. 402 00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:49,840 Speaker 1: He was very handsome guy that always help, and he 403 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:56,320 Speaker 1: was a very open guy. Okay, antitude, these very positive characters, 404 00:25:56,400 --> 00:26:01,840 Speaker 1: and he was a fighter, way mellions of miles from 405 00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:07,000 Speaker 1: a concept like a suicide, not because he was our son. 406 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:12,600 Speaker 1: The parents devastated, saying he was handsome, he was charismatic, 407 00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:15,119 Speaker 1: who was very open to the world. He was a 408 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:20,600 Speaker 1: million miles away from a thought of suicide. Yet a 409 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:24,600 Speaker 1: couple of months back at e F Academy and he's dead, 410 00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:31,280 Speaker 1: placed in solitary confinement at a nearly seventy thousand dollars 411 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:37,320 Speaker 1: boarding school solitary confinement. He's had a suicide attempt before 412 00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:41,640 Speaker 1: fifteen students knew about it. Nobody's checking on him, and 413 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:46,960 Speaker 1: he has the materials to hang himself. It's not the 414 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:51,080 Speaker 1: first time that similar treatment has occurred at a so 415 00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:59,000 Speaker 1: called elite private school. Paris Hilton, that's right, Paris Hilton. 416 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:04,400 Speaker 1: The Star made headlines which she described what happened to her. 417 00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:08,600 Speaker 1: Listen to Paris speaking to our friends at CBS. Harris Hilton, 418 00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:12,560 Speaker 1: heiress to the storied Hilton Hotel Legacy, was born to 419 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:17,400 Speaker 1: wealthy but working parents, Richard and Cathy. She says they 420 00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 1: were strict, no makeup or dates allowed, but as a teen, 421 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:24,840 Speaker 1: Paris had a wild streak, so wild that mom and 422 00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:29,160 Speaker 1: dad sent her to a series of behavior modification schools. 423 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:32,760 Speaker 1: How did your parents get to the point where they 424 00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:34,960 Speaker 1: thought that that was the answer. What were you doing? 425 00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:38,640 Speaker 1: I wasn't really doing anything. I just moved from LA 426 00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:42,280 Speaker 1: to New York and that's why my life completely changed. 427 00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:46,200 Speaker 1: And basically I was just sneaking out, going to clubs 428 00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:49,880 Speaker 1: and not going to school and ditching class. And that's 429 00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:52,080 Speaker 1: when my parents thought it was time to be a 430 00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:56,280 Speaker 1: go away. Then seventeen year old Paris wound up at 431 00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:59,760 Speaker 1: the Provo Canyon School in Utah, a place for treatment 432 00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:04,399 Speaker 1: of young people with mental and behavioral challenges. There's no 433 00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:08,200 Speaker 1: getting out of there. But in her film This Is Paris, 434 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:10,720 Speaker 1: she describes the place as more of a prison camp 435 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:15,959 Speaker 1: with solitary confinement and physical abuse. So they made an 436 00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:21,280 Speaker 1: example of you, and they would choke you, yeah, and 437 00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:26,920 Speaker 1: hit you. Yes. It's so weird to think now because 438 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:30,080 Speaker 1: I buried this for so long with my emotions, so 439 00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:35,000 Speaker 1: now to think about it, what happened, It's so weird 440 00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:37,960 Speaker 1: for me to even be like, how is this really real? 441 00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:45,080 Speaker 1: To Jin Robinson and Jeremy quietly survivors of a Provo 442 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:52,240 Speaker 1: King school. Jin Robinson, I keep thinking about Claudio, this 443 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:59,360 Speaker 1: young team boy just lost a family member dead, busted 444 00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,360 Speaker 1: for cheating on a math paper. It was behind because 445 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:05,800 Speaker 1: the COVID trying desperately to catch up, and placed in 446 00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:11,720 Speaker 1: solitary confinement. I'd like to hear what you and Jeremy 447 00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:15,320 Speaker 1: have to say. Well, it definitely it rings a strong 448 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:19,280 Speaker 1: belt because I know what that feels like to be 449 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:23,800 Speaker 1: in a place of crisis as a kid and instead 450 00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:28,920 Speaker 1: of help you are completely left alone. Did your parents 451 00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:32,960 Speaker 1: know what was happening to you at Provo? They knew 452 00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:37,040 Speaker 1: that there was an isolation room, and they certainly knew 453 00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:40,960 Speaker 1: that it was used, but they were not told every 454 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:43,240 Speaker 1: time that I was placed in that room at all, 455 00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:45,479 Speaker 1: And they were not told why I was placed in 456 00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:48,320 Speaker 1: that room because it was There's so many ways that 457 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:53,280 Speaker 1: these schools skirt laws and try to avoid accountability for 458 00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:58,440 Speaker 1: the use of seclusion isolation. They find so many different 459 00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:01,440 Speaker 1: ways of just not reporting. You're supposed to only use 460 00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:04,640 Speaker 1: seclusion in Utah if the child is a clear and 461 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:07,200 Speaker 1: present danger to themselves and others. I would be put 462 00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:10,160 Speaker 1: in isolation for curling up under my desk, which leads 463 00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:12,520 Speaker 1: me too, Why would you have to be curled up 464 00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:15,440 Speaker 1: under your desk? It's just and the parents are far 465 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:19,160 Speaker 1: away and they have no idea what's happening. They think 466 00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:23,600 Speaker 1: they're helping their child. Jeremy jump in, Yeah, my parents 467 00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:25,800 Speaker 1: didn't know it at all. I mean I wrote them 468 00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:28,800 Speaker 1: letters and holding them about the abuse that they saw 469 00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:31,760 Speaker 1: that happened to their kids, you know, three hundred pounds. 470 00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:35,440 Speaker 1: Staff members with you know, tap called kids you a 471 00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:39,840 Speaker 1: punch on, you know, throw them an usually, and isolation 472 00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:43,320 Speaker 1: rooms for you know hours to twenty four hours to 473 00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:46,760 Speaker 1: forty eight hours. I told them my parents that in letters, 474 00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:50,160 Speaker 1: and the school just destroyed them and never boarded them 475 00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:53,280 Speaker 1: to my parents. So they were not getting your letters. No, 476 00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:56,800 Speaker 1: there's no way to have honest communication with your parents. Yeah, 477 00:30:56,840 --> 00:31:00,520 Speaker 1: because they were taking your letters and monitoring your phone call. Yeah, 478 00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:02,840 Speaker 1: we're with you on the phone. They're with you on 479 00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:05,800 Speaker 1: the phone. I mean it kills me when my twins 480 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:07,880 Speaker 1: go to scout camp and their phones don't work in 481 00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:11,280 Speaker 1: the mountains. I can't imagine them being at a place 482 00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:14,280 Speaker 1: where they cannot communicate with me. I want you to 483 00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:19,320 Speaker 1: hear what another victim has to say. Jin Robinson, this 484 00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:23,680 Speaker 1: is you, and you're talking about what happened not only 485 00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:27,560 Speaker 1: to you, but other victims as well. Listen. For many 486 00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:30,040 Speaker 1: this is the first time hearing about Provo Canyon School. 487 00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:32,200 Speaker 1: I'm realizing more and more that I'm confronted with it 488 00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:35,640 Speaker 1: every day. For people like Paris and Jim Robinson, it's haunting. 489 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:40,080 Speaker 1: The issues that occurred women Paris and I were there 490 00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:43,880 Speaker 1: are still occurring today. Jim was admitted to PCs in 491 00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:47,000 Speaker 1: two thousand and three for childhood trauma. Basically, they brought 492 00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:49,360 Speaker 1: me in, they strip searched me in the utility closet, 493 00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:52,240 Speaker 1: and soon after they shaved my head. They gave me 494 00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:55,120 Speaker 1: a number. Little did she know the facility would create 495 00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:58,280 Speaker 1: trauma of its own. It's so abrupt and it's so 496 00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:00,920 Speaker 1: frightening and it's so confusing that you're just like, well, 497 00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:03,560 Speaker 1: this is my life now. Jin says she still has 498 00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:06,800 Speaker 1: vivid memories of having to earn off campus visits, alleged 499 00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:12,880 Speaker 1: verbal and physical abuse, and isolation. Paris Hilton agrees here 500 00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:16,520 Speaker 1: she is with at In an interview with People magazine, 501 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:19,000 Speaker 1: Harris claims that the eleven months she spent at a 502 00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:22,360 Speaker 1: boarding school for troubled teens at the age of seventeen 503 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:26,200 Speaker 1: was quote torture. It was supposed to be a school, 504 00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:29,320 Speaker 1: but classes were not the focus at all. From the 505 00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:31,720 Speaker 1: moment I woke up until I went to bed, it 506 00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:34,880 Speaker 1: was all days screaming in my face, yelling at me, 507 00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:38,760 Speaker 1: continuous torture. The DJ goes on to detail the alleged 508 00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:42,680 Speaker 1: verbal abuse she endured, explaining, quote, the staff would say 509 00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:45,920 Speaker 1: terrible things. They were constantly making me feel bad about 510 00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:48,760 Speaker 1: myself and bullying me. I think it was their goal 511 00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:52,280 Speaker 1: to break us down, and they were physically abusive, hitting 512 00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:55,640 Speaker 1: and strangling us. They wanted to instill fear in the kids, 513 00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:59,320 Speaker 1: so we'd be too scared to disobey them. Harris recalled 514 00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:02,560 Speaker 1: another didn't telling the staff that she planned to run away. 515 00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:05,240 Speaker 1: As a result, the EIRA says they placed her in 516 00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:09,080 Speaker 1: solitary confinement. Ferris also claimed she was only allowed to 517 00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:12,200 Speaker 1: speak with her family once every two or three months, 518 00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:14,600 Speaker 1: and that when she tried to tell them about what 519 00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:17,880 Speaker 1: was going on, she was punished. Quote. I was having 520 00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:21,240 Speaker 1: panic attacks and crying every single day. I was just 521 00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:25,000 Speaker 1: so miserable. I felt like a prisoner and I hated life. 522 00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:27,280 Speaker 1: I think it is important to correct one piece of 523 00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:29,920 Speaker 1: the record with Provolkanian School that, however they may have 524 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:33,240 Speaker 1: builed themselves to Paris's parents, they were never an elite 525 00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:37,880 Speaker 1: boarding school. They take kids for any reason, from all 526 00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:42,120 Speaker 1: walks of life, and it's I think it's just interesting 527 00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:45,720 Speaker 1: too to see the difference between a place like Provolkanian 528 00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:47,880 Speaker 1: School that's kind of this catch all, we're going to 529 00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:51,320 Speaker 1: fix your kid behavioral modification program, but you have the 530 00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:55,080 Speaker 1: same types of problems happening in an elite academic school 531 00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:58,840 Speaker 1: like EFF Academy. And I think a huge part that's 532 00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:02,080 Speaker 1: important for parents to understand about the safety issue here 533 00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:04,600 Speaker 1: is that when you send your child far from you 534 00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:07,520 Speaker 1: and far from the eyes of the people that love them. 535 00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:11,360 Speaker 1: They no longer have an advocate. They're this counselor that 536 00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:14,880 Speaker 1: was supposed to be taking care of Claudio and watching 537 00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:17,239 Speaker 1: after his well being in mental health. That should have 538 00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:20,080 Speaker 1: been his advocate. But she's not his parents, she's not 539 00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:23,200 Speaker 1: somebody in his community who truly loved him, and so 540 00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:26,160 Speaker 1: he didn't get somebody standing for him the way that 541 00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:28,640 Speaker 1: they should have and saying that this treatment should not 542 00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:31,600 Speaker 1: be happening to any child, especially a child who's going 543 00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:50,680 Speaker 1: through what Claudia's going through. Time stories with Nancy Grace 544 00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:56,320 Speaker 1: to Guy Stevens joining us from the Alliance Against Seclusion 545 00:34:56,320 --> 00:35:00,799 Speaker 1: and Restraint. Guy Stevens, they you just don't have a 546 00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:06,600 Speaker 1: chance to tell the parents what's happening. Their letters are 547 00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:10,520 Speaker 1: destroyed or monitored. That has been proven in other cases, 548 00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:14,360 Speaker 1: and someone is there from the school when they speak 549 00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:16,360 Speaker 1: to the parents. If they try to tell the parents, 550 00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:20,240 Speaker 1: they're then punished after. These systems are based on compliance 551 00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:24,439 Speaker 1: and control and what children need, any children, any youth, 552 00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:27,040 Speaker 1: is they need connection and they need compassions. You know, 553 00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:29,319 Speaker 1: often we're talking about kids that are having a hard time, 554 00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:31,480 Speaker 1: kids that have been through trauma. You know, you think 555 00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:34,320 Speaker 1: about the loss of a relative and that the trauma 556 00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:37,360 Speaker 1: that that might be leading. But we have many institutions, 557 00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:41,320 Speaker 1: many schools, many elite facilities, you know, across the country 558 00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:45,080 Speaker 1: that are focused on compliance and control. I think both. 559 00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:47,439 Speaker 1: I think Jennet mentioned kind of in Jeremy as well, 560 00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:51,839 Speaker 1: this idea of these behavioral approaches that are honestly, you know, 561 00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:53,920 Speaker 1: over one hundred years old. I mean, there's a lot 562 00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:57,080 Speaker 1: of emphasis on this idea behaviorism. It's all about kind 563 00:35:57,080 --> 00:36:01,480 Speaker 1: of rewarding consequence, and it's leading kids into more trauma. 564 00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:03,480 Speaker 1: I mean, I really feel for Jen and Jeremy, and 565 00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:06,680 Speaker 1: I appreciate your willingness to continue to speak on this 566 00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:09,480 Speaker 1: issue because I know, you know, I know from being 567 00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:12,479 Speaker 1: connected with you and others, this is traumatic, even even 568 00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:15,360 Speaker 1: decades later. Well when then you go in for a 569 00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:20,080 Speaker 1: behavioral issue and then you're treated this way, and in 570 00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:23,880 Speaker 1: this case, Claudio just went for a better future. Guys, 571 00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:27,080 Speaker 1: they're not the only ones. We're cutting forward to our 572 00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:29,400 Speaker 1: cut thirty three and thirty four. Take a listen to 573 00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:35,440 Speaker 1: another famous name, Kat Vandi and Jen listen. They did 574 00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:40,600 Speaker 1: a strip search which was completely degrading. I remember having 575 00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:43,480 Speaker 1: to get naked in front of this person who I 576 00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:46,080 Speaker 1: don't know the ad credentials. I had no idea who 577 00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:50,880 Speaker 1: they were. And basically they were just just degrading me 578 00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:54,320 Speaker 1: the whole entire time. And I you know, I was 579 00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:59,960 Speaker 1: fifteen years old, I was still a kid. And they 580 00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:05,920 Speaker 1: put me into a like some hot pink sweats and 581 00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:10,960 Speaker 1: gave me some sandals, and then they took me into 582 00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:15,000 Speaker 1: another room and then shaved my head. The mistreatment and 583 00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:18,880 Speaker 1: the shaving of the head seems to be a common 584 00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:23,200 Speaker 1: theme at schools like this. Right now, E f Academy 585 00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:30,520 Speaker 1: on the hot seat because this young boy, Claudio is 586 00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:36,200 Speaker 1: dead sixty six grand a year. In our cut thirty eight, 587 00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:39,799 Speaker 1: I want you to hear our friend that joined me, 588 00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:45,560 Speaker 1: Chris Hooker, when Trevor was there, he constantly reported that 589 00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:49,440 Speaker 1: he was left in the room for days with basically 590 00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:52,120 Speaker 1: they just would leave them, feed them, let him out, 591 00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:56,160 Speaker 1: made him pee in the jug, tackled by staff constantly, 592 00:37:56,200 --> 00:38:00,279 Speaker 1: which was always denied. It was always his fault. I 593 00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:03,000 Speaker 1: asked them to view cameras every time it happened. It 594 00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:05,759 Speaker 1: was somewhere where there wasn't cameras. You know, he used to. 595 00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:09,120 Speaker 1: When he got home, he told me, he told me 596 00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:13,440 Speaker 1: that he has lots of nightmares about that place, about 597 00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:15,879 Speaker 1: the way he was treated, how staff let kids pick 598 00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:21,759 Speaker 1: on him. Staff picked on him, and he got into 599 00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:24,000 Speaker 1: a little bit of trouble when he got home, nothing major. 600 00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:27,200 Speaker 1: But a week later he took his life. I think 601 00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:28,799 Speaker 1: he thought he was going to end up back there. 602 00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:35,160 Speaker 1: Another boy dead at a so called elite private school. 603 00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:41,719 Speaker 1: That boy Trevor Hooker. What is the answer? Why are 604 00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:48,520 Speaker 1: these so called elite academies and behavioral modification schools repeatedly 605 00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:58,680 Speaker 1: reportedly facilitating abuse, sex assault, mistreatment, and ultimately suicide. The 606 00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:02,360 Speaker 1: case is going forward, Kelly Hyman joining me, high profile 607 00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:05,520 Speaker 1: lawyer out of Miami. What do you expect to come 608 00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:08,200 Speaker 1: out of a trial? Right? Well, first, I wanted to 609 00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:10,600 Speaker 1: say my thoughts and prayers go out to the family 610 00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:14,080 Speaker 1: that lost a loved one, and thank you for our 611 00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:18,000 Speaker 1: other people speaking about what they went through. I think 612 00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:21,319 Speaker 1: it's really important to bring about change. I know that 613 00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:24,080 Speaker 1: the attorney advocating for the family says that he wants 614 00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:27,440 Speaker 1: to pass Claudia's Law in order to bring about change, 615 00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:29,759 Speaker 1: but I do believe that I don't think that there 616 00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:32,520 Speaker 1: is going to be a trial. I think that they're 617 00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:36,040 Speaker 1: going to try and reach some resolution before that because 618 00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:38,799 Speaker 1: the high profile thing and a lot of stuff will 619 00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:41,360 Speaker 1: come out. But I definitely think it's important for people 620 00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:44,920 Speaker 1: to speak out. Without speaking out, there cannot be any change. 621 00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:47,279 Speaker 1: Without people telling their stories and what they went through, 622 00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:51,239 Speaker 1: there can't bring about any any change at all from 623 00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:54,399 Speaker 1: that standpoint, and also legally about making changes and making 624 00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:57,560 Speaker 1: a difference to help people. Kelly him in your ride. 625 00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:01,200 Speaker 1: I don't think there's any way that f academy is 626 00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:03,680 Speaker 1: going to let this thing go to trial. They will 627 00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:08,000 Speaker 1: do anything to stop a trial. That's my legal analysis. 628 00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:13,560 Speaker 1: But bottom line, this teen boy Claudio is dead and 629 00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:19,080 Speaker 1: ef Academy has a lot of explaining to do. Nancy 630 00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:21,640 Speaker 1: Grace Crime Story signing off, Goodbye Frank