WEBVTT - The Gen Z News Star Taking On Trump 

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<v Speaker 1>The first time around, and actually during his campaign, this

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<v Speaker 1>moniker of fake news was so corrosive.

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<v Speaker 2>I really think that was one of the biggest catalysts

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<v Speaker 2>to kind of where we are today, because when you

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<v Speaker 2>can't trust the news, when you can't trust what you're

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<v Speaker 2>reading or what you're watching anymore, or even if you

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<v Speaker 2>do trust it, but there is just a little birdy

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<v Speaker 2>in the back of your head that says, maybe this

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<v Speaker 2>isn't fully right or fully accurate, because Donald Trump says

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<v Speaker 2>it's not.

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<v Speaker 1>Hi everyone, I'm Kitty Kuric, and this is next question.

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<v Speaker 1>Hi everyone. Well, if you're not already, you may soon

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<v Speaker 1>become one of the nearly six million followers of Aaron Parness,

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<v Speaker 1>a viral news aggregator his words in the substack slash

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<v Speaker 1>TikTok universe. And by the way, I've recently joined the

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<v Speaker 1>substack universe myself, so you might want to check that out.

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<v Speaker 1>Aaron's school is to take on legacy media. But the

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<v Speaker 1>question is how and why? So here to tell me

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<v Speaker 1>all about that is Aaron Parnis himself.

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<v Speaker 3>Hi erin, Hi, how are you good? How are you

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<v Speaker 3>so nice to meet you?

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<v Speaker 2>Like Wise, likewise super excited for this.

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<v Speaker 1>I feel like I know you already, Erin, just because

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<v Speaker 1>I watch you all the time, and I'm like, oh, hi, Eron,

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<v Speaker 1>do you feel like that with people online too?

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<v Speaker 2>I do. It's very weird. It's like you wrote these

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<v Speaker 2>parasocial relationships and then you meet them in person or

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<v Speaker 2>over zoom, and it's like it's like you've known them

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<v Speaker 2>for years.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's really fun. Well, I'm excited to talk to you.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you so much for doing this, Thanks so much

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<v Speaker 1>for having me absolutely well. I wanted to start by

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<v Speaker 1>asking you a little bit about yourself. Erin for tim like,

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<v Speaker 1>we're having coffee, we've never met before. Tell me your

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<v Speaker 1>story because you're a brainiac, and you have been since

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<v Speaker 1>you were very young, right.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, I've had a very unique kind of upbringing.

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<v Speaker 2>My story really starts actually back when I was twelve

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<v Speaker 2>years old. At the time, I wanted to be a lawyer,

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<v Speaker 2>and I didn't know what being a lawyer really meant.

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<v Speaker 2>So my dad actually sat me down in front of

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<v Speaker 2>the TV and told me to watch at the time,

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<v Speaker 2>the case Cy Anthony Trial, which was blowing up all

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<v Speaker 2>over Florida and.

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<v Speaker 3>Really lovely content for a twelve year old.

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<v Speaker 2>By the way, you would think, right. I mean, I

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<v Speaker 2>grew up in a Ukrainian household, so parenting, that's parenting.

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<v Speaker 2>But so anyway, so she sat me down and he

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<v Speaker 2>was like, just watch opening statements and you may like this.

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<v Speaker 2>I ended up sitting myself for thirty one days watching

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<v Speaker 2>start to finish the entire trial and kind of fell

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<v Speaker 2>in love with the way the attorneys moved around the

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<v Speaker 2>courtroom and advocated for either her side. And that moment

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<v Speaker 2>there made me want to go to law school and

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<v Speaker 2>made me want to go in an expedited fashion.

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<v Speaker 1>So yes, I'll say expedited. You went to college at fourteen? Right,

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<v Speaker 1>This is, by the way, growing up in Boca Raton, Florida.

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<v Speaker 3>Did you have siblings?

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<v Speaker 2>By the way, I have six siblings. Oh my god,

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<v Speaker 2>I know it. Yes, I am the oldest. I have

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<v Speaker 2>younger siblings who I love very close to. But yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I grew up in Bokertone. Started college when I was

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<v Speaker 2>fourteen in this like dual enrollment hybrid program.

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<v Speaker 3>Where was that? By the way, it's.

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<v Speaker 2>Called Florida Atlantic University.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, I've heard of that because I used to

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<v Speaker 3>live in Miami.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh amazing. Yeah, So it's about one hundred kids do

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<v Speaker 2>it a year. We instead of taking high school classes,

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<v Speaker 2>you take college classes with college students, and it kind

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<v Speaker 2>of counts for both high school and college credit. And

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<v Speaker 2>so I kind of overloaded. Graduated with my BA when

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<v Speaker 2>I was eighteen, actually a week before technically graduating high school.

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<v Speaker 2>And I always knew I wanted to be a lawyer

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<v Speaker 2>and wanted to go to law school, and so I

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<v Speaker 2>went straight to George Washington University in Washington, DC, graduated

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<v Speaker 2>three years later, and then quit practicing law a few

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<v Speaker 2>years after that.

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<v Speaker 1>So let's talk about that pivot for you professionally. Why

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<v Speaker 1>did you decide after watching the Casey Anthony Trail for

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<v Speaker 1>thirty one days and graduating from GW Law School at

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<v Speaker 1>the tender age of twenty one, what changed your mind?

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<v Speaker 1>Why did you decide suddenly I don't really want to

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<v Speaker 1>be a lawyer.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, so I realized that being a lawyer wasn't necessarily

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<v Speaker 2>being in a court room every day. I think everyone

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<v Speaker 2>on TV really makes it like this glamorous lifestyle where

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<v Speaker 2>you're fighting for these big issues and you're in front

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<v Speaker 2>of the Supreme Court or you're in front of a

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<v Speaker 2>jury every day. And yeah, I had my fair share

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<v Speaker 2>of time in court, but it wasn't an everyday kind

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<v Speaker 2>of experience. I mean, my dream, truly was to be

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<v Speaker 2>a public defender for the rest of my life and

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<v Speaker 2>just do that. But public defenders, unfortunately in our country,

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<v Speaker 2>just don't make a livable wage in many areas, and

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<v Speaker 2>I believe at the time in Miami, public defenders were

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<v Speaker 2>making about thirty six thousand dollars a year to start,

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<v Speaker 2>and in Miami you can't live off of that. You

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<v Speaker 2>just truly can't. So I had to go and I

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<v Speaker 2>had massive student debt, so I had to go into

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<v Speaker 2>private practice, and it just wasn't the lifestyle that I

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<v Speaker 2>wanted to live. And so it wasn't necessarily that I

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<v Speaker 2>didn't want to be a lawyer. It's just that I

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<v Speaker 2>found a different avenue to advocate for the issues and

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<v Speaker 2>the people that I believe in.

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<v Speaker 1>You really had this, I guess, dramatic or significant life change.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's go back to twenty sixteen. You're volunteering for the

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<v Speaker 1>Trump campaign. Back then, how old were you then? My

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<v Speaker 1>maths is not good, Aaron.

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<v Speaker 2>So at sixteen seventeen years old?

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<v Speaker 3>So what appealed to you about Donald Trump at the time?

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<v Speaker 2>So I think it was just different. And I tell

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<v Speaker 2>everyone my first experience, my first foray into politics was

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<v Speaker 2>Donald Trump. Just like many people my age, I don't

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<v Speaker 2>remember the Obama years, I don't remember the Bush years.

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<v Speaker 2>I remember the twenty fifteen twenty sixteen election cycle. And

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<v Speaker 2>during that election cycle, I really knew nothing different other

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<v Speaker 2>than Donald Trump. My dad had known him in the past,

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<v Speaker 2>being in the same circles in Miami, and I think

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<v Speaker 2>I believe he actually worked for Donald Trump's dad in

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<v Speaker 2>New York as one of his first jobs. And so

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<v Speaker 2>I just what appealed to me was that he was

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<v Speaker 2>just a different kind of beast in this political realm,

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<v Speaker 2>and he just kind of told it like it was

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<v Speaker 2>and he was just interesting. And so I personally, I

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<v Speaker 2>volunteered very kind of haphazardly, like I was still in

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<v Speaker 2>school and like really wasn't doing much for the campaign,

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<v Speaker 2>if anything at all, maybe knocked a door to but

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<v Speaker 2>ultimately didn't really realize what it was like or what

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<v Speaker 2>it meant to be a quote unquote Trump supporter or

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<v Speaker 2>even a Republican until love. Yeah, so I always identified

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<v Speaker 2>at the time. I was like, yeah, I'm a Republican,

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<v Speaker 2>but I didn't know what Republicans stood for.

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<v Speaker 1>And as such a smart kid, I'm surprised that you

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<v Speaker 1>sort of blindly followed him because he was different or

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<v Speaker 1>charismatic or unfiltered. That just doesn't sound like the Aaron

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<v Speaker 1>Parness I've come to know in the last five minutes.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, you're right. But when you grow up

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<v Speaker 2>in a house and all that's hon is Fox News,

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<v Speaker 2>and that's all you're watching, and that's all you're kind

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<v Speaker 2>of absorbing, And then when you're talking in family discussions,

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<v Speaker 2>all you're absorbing is Donald Trump, and when you're with

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<v Speaker 2>family friends, all you're absorbing is Donald Trump, you don't

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<v Speaker 2>know any better. And I never really had something about

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<v Speaker 2>me that people have come to realize that I'm a

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<v Speaker 2>very stubborn person. So when people kind of pushed back

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<v Speaker 2>on me in college, when my friends were like, hey,

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<v Speaker 2>what are you doing? What are you thinking? Every time

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<v Speaker 2>they did that, I kind of dugged my heels in

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<v Speaker 2>further as just being stubborn myself. So it really was

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<v Speaker 2>a fault of mine for not really kind of doing

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<v Speaker 2>my own research and understanding really what was happening. And

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<v Speaker 2>at the time, I mean, when you think about it,

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<v Speaker 2>when you look back at the twenty sixteen campaign and

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<v Speaker 2>you look from start to finish Donald Trump's campaign, I

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<v Speaker 2>don't know that you can really tell me a policy

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<v Speaker 2>proposal or two that he really had. He just kind

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<v Speaker 2>of throughout these big ideas that he's going to make

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<v Speaker 2>America great again and he's going to do all these

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<v Speaker 2>great things for the country, and that resonated, I guess

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<v Speaker 2>with my sixteen year old self. But when I really

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<v Speaker 2>learned about his policy agenda when he became president kind

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<v Speaker 2>of shifted dramatically.

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<v Speaker 1>And well before we talk about that shift, I'm curious

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<v Speaker 1>what was it like being involved in the Trump campaign. Adriana,

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<v Speaker 1>who produced this interview, had an interesting question about sort

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<v Speaker 1>of the bro culture, I guess, the nascent manosphere, if

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<v Speaker 1>you will, that was starting to bubble up I think

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<v Speaker 1>in twenty sixteen. Can you talk about that and what

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<v Speaker 1>some of your fellow volunteers were like and why they

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<v Speaker 1>were attracted to Donald Trump.

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<v Speaker 2>That was a long time ago. I mean, like I said,

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<v Speaker 2>truth be told, I don't really remember much from that time,

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<v Speaker 2>but b I didn't really I wasn't really ingrained in

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<v Speaker 2>the campaign that much. I think there was one article

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<v Speaker 2>that was written that I was a volunteer on the campaign,

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<v Speaker 2>but that just meant like I knocked a few doors.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so you weren't really that invested, but you liked him,

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<v Speaker 1>and you liked you preferred him to Hillary Clinton. And

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<v Speaker 1>you say it's really because Fox News was playing twenty

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<v Speaker 1>four to seven in your house and your dad, who

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<v Speaker 1>I'll talk about with you in a moment. But what

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<v Speaker 1>did you have against Hillary Clinton?

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<v Speaker 2>I had nothing against Hillary Clinton. It wasn't an anti Hillary.

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<v Speaker 2>It was more of a pro Trump, right. I had

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<v Speaker 2>nothing against her, And looking back on it, if my

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<v Speaker 2>political personal views definitely aligned with her is a lot

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<v Speaker 2>more so, it was nothing against her at all.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's talk about your dad. So your dad had a

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<v Speaker 1>huge influence on you, and God, talk about a fascinating backstory.

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<v Speaker 1>Tell me about him and what happened to him and

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<v Speaker 1>how it contributed to your political ideological transformation. That sounded

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<v Speaker 1>very aeradite, didn't it?

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<v Speaker 2>I little, but it makes sense. I mean, so, my

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<v Speaker 2>dad wasn't really ever involved in politics growing up. I

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<v Speaker 2>remember the first time we ever went to a political

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<v Speaker 2>event was the twenty twelve election night party, and my

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<v Speaker 2>dad and my family were red for a Republican for

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<v Speaker 2>Mitt Romney, and you had to wear the wear the

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<v Speaker 2>colors of either red or blue. I ended up choosing

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<v Speaker 2>to wear orange because I didn't want to identify with

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<v Speaker 2>either side. But other than that, we didn't really do

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<v Speaker 2>politics at all, and it wasn't until Trump announced in

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<v Speaker 2>twenty fifteen. About a month or so later, he had

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<v Speaker 2>a rally in Durell, Florida, and my dad took me

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<v Speaker 2>there and was able to I don't know how, but

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<v Speaker 2>we got some kind of pass and we met Donald

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<v Speaker 2>Trump and kind of one of those step and repeat

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<v Speaker 2>photo lines, and about one hundred of us met him,

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<v Speaker 2>and then we went to the rally, and then I

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<v Speaker 2>thought that was the end of it, But then Fox

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<v Speaker 2>News continued to play in the house. Then my dad

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<v Speaker 2>continued to kind of get closer and closer to the

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<v Speaker 2>Trump orbit. He became buddy buddy with Rudy Giuliani. He

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<v Speaker 2>ended up, I believe, co hosting or helping host some

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<v Speaker 2>type of fundraiser for Donald Trump after the Access Hollywood

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<v Speaker 2>tape came out in South Florida, and just became very

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<v Speaker 2>very close to the craziness within MAGA. But I don't

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<v Speaker 2>even to this day know the true extent of it all.

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<v Speaker 1>And wasn't he involved in trying to dig up dirt

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<v Speaker 1>about Hunter Biden and Ukraine.

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<v Speaker 2>He was, but that was post Trump's victory, that really

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<v Speaker 2>whole effort from what I understand, Like I said, I

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<v Speaker 2>don't know everything, but from what I understand, that didn't

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<v Speaker 2>really start happening until twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen, when he

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<v Speaker 2>and Rudy became closer. But during the twenty sixteen campaign,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't think they were discussing that up.

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<v Speaker 1>But after they became close. During Trump's first term, there

0:11:02.080 --> 0:11:04.960
<v Speaker 1>were a lot of illegal shenanigans going on right.

0:11:04.920 --> 0:11:07.800
<v Speaker 2>Erin from what I can see, there were a lot

0:11:07.840 --> 0:11:09.320
<v Speaker 2>of shenanigans.

0:11:08.679 --> 0:11:11.880
<v Speaker 3>Going on that I mean, he eventually went to prison

0:11:11.960 --> 0:11:13.079
<v Speaker 3>your father, right.

0:11:13.360 --> 0:11:16.160
<v Speaker 2>He did, But he went to prison. It was unrelated

0:11:16.200 --> 0:11:19.120
<v Speaker 2>to anything related to the Rudy Hunter Biden stuff.

0:11:19.679 --> 0:11:20.960
<v Speaker 3>What did he go to prison for?

0:11:21.360 --> 0:11:24.440
<v Speaker 2>So he went to prison for defrauding a number of

0:11:24.440 --> 0:11:26.840
<v Speaker 2>investors in a personal company that he was running, and

0:11:26.880 --> 0:11:30.199
<v Speaker 2>then also for he was convicted of funneling about a

0:11:30.280 --> 0:11:35.600
<v Speaker 2>half a million dollars from this Russian man into a

0:11:36.160 --> 0:11:39.480
<v Speaker 2>US superPAC But that was during the twenty sixteen campaign.

0:11:39.520 --> 0:11:41.640
<v Speaker 2>I believe I don't really know that the true detail

0:11:41.679 --> 0:11:42.000
<v Speaker 2>clip them.

0:11:42.240 --> 0:11:46.800
<v Speaker 1>Okay, so this is fascinating to me, Aaron, You're so smart,

0:11:46.880 --> 0:11:49.760
<v Speaker 1>You've got a law degree. Your dad gets in trouble,

0:11:50.200 --> 0:11:53.240
<v Speaker 1>he goes to prison, and yet you're kind of fuzzy

0:11:53.320 --> 0:11:54.119
<v Speaker 1>on the details.

0:11:55.480 --> 0:11:58.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because I between you and me, I mean, I

0:11:58.240 --> 0:12:01.719
<v Speaker 2>think anyone who goes through something like that, I mean,

0:12:01.960 --> 0:12:04.480
<v Speaker 2>I say, October ten, twenty nineteen, the day he was arrested,

0:12:04.520 --> 0:12:06.040
<v Speaker 2>was one of the worst days in my life because

0:12:06.040 --> 0:12:08.840
<v Speaker 2>it truly was. It's a time period where I have

0:12:08.960 --> 0:12:11.480
<v Speaker 2>worked my hardest to kind of black out in a

0:12:11.480 --> 0:12:14.400
<v Speaker 2>way as a coping mechanism. It fractured my family, It

0:12:14.520 --> 0:12:17.920
<v Speaker 2>changed my life completely, and really we felt the weight

0:12:17.920 --> 0:12:21.280
<v Speaker 2>of the federal government on our shoulders for several months

0:12:21.360 --> 0:12:23.640
<v Speaker 2>over a year, and it was a very difficult time. So, yeah,

0:12:23.679 --> 0:12:27.320
<v Speaker 2>it is very clumsy, and it's intentionally fuzzy because I

0:12:27.400 --> 0:12:29.600
<v Speaker 2>don't want to take myself back there if I don't

0:12:29.600 --> 0:12:29.880
<v Speaker 2>have to.

0:12:30.360 --> 0:12:33.400
<v Speaker 1>That's interesting, and I think, on a lot of levels,

0:12:33.520 --> 0:12:37.839
<v Speaker 1>very understandable. So what is your relationship like with your

0:12:37.920 --> 0:12:38.640
<v Speaker 1>dad today?

0:12:39.520 --> 0:12:41.720
<v Speaker 2>We have a good relationship, I mean, like a father

0:12:41.800 --> 0:12:44.720
<v Speaker 2>and a son. I mean, it's definitely not as close

0:12:44.800 --> 0:12:47.960
<v Speaker 2>as it used to be. I think we have went

0:12:48.000 --> 0:12:53.800
<v Speaker 2>through our own trials and tribulations and it's been tough.

0:12:53.920 --> 0:12:56.160
<v Speaker 2>But at the end of the day, he's my dad

0:12:56.200 --> 0:12:59.120
<v Speaker 2>and I love him for being my dad, and that's

0:12:59.120 --> 0:13:03.720
<v Speaker 2>what I want him to be, just a regular playing dad.

0:13:04.320 --> 0:13:07.240
<v Speaker 1>And I'm putting a button on this because it sounds

0:13:07.240 --> 0:13:10.120
<v Speaker 1>like this is not easy to talk about and dredges

0:13:10.200 --> 0:13:14.000
<v Speaker 1>up a lot of painful memories for you. But how

0:13:14.040 --> 0:13:19.360
<v Speaker 1>does he feel about Rudy Giuliani and Donald Trump and

0:13:19.520 --> 0:13:24.480
<v Speaker 1>the whole MAGA movement given what he's been through? Obviously,

0:13:24.559 --> 0:13:28.240
<v Speaker 1>you said his prison time was not related to that,

0:13:29.000 --> 0:13:32.559
<v Speaker 1>but I'm sure there was a lot of negative fallout

0:13:32.920 --> 0:13:37.800
<v Speaker 1>from his political dealings. So where is he right now

0:13:37.840 --> 0:13:39.880
<v Speaker 1>in his head about all of this?

0:13:40.800 --> 0:13:42.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, I think he really felt like they

0:13:42.720 --> 0:13:45.800
<v Speaker 2>turned their backs on him, right that he did all

0:13:45.840 --> 0:13:47.800
<v Speaker 2>this stuff for them, He helped them with the Hunter

0:13:47.920 --> 0:13:50.720
<v Speaker 2>Biden stuff. He went out of his way and put

0:13:50.720 --> 0:13:52.440
<v Speaker 2>his neck out on the line for them, and then

0:13:52.480 --> 0:13:55.320
<v Speaker 2>the moment that he got in trouble, they kind of

0:13:55.360 --> 0:13:57.960
<v Speaker 2>turned their back on him, and I think he really

0:13:57.960 --> 0:14:02.920
<v Speaker 2>took it personally He's someone who's very kind of emotionally emotional,

0:14:03.440 --> 0:14:05.679
<v Speaker 2>and so the moment they kind of turned against him

0:14:05.840 --> 0:14:08.520
<v Speaker 2>was I remember about twelve days after he was arrested,

0:14:08.840 --> 0:14:11.280
<v Speaker 2>he kind of called and he was like, I'm done,

0:14:11.520 --> 0:14:14.440
<v Speaker 2>Like I'm not going back, Like I'm not letting them

0:14:14.559 --> 0:14:22.880
<v Speaker 2>drag me back into that world.

0:14:24.080 --> 0:14:24.240
<v Speaker 3>Hi.

0:14:24.320 --> 0:14:27.120
<v Speaker 1>Everyone, it's Katie Couric. You know I'm always on the

0:14:27.160 --> 0:14:31.480
<v Speaker 1>go between running my media company, hosting my podcast, and

0:14:31.560 --> 0:14:34.360
<v Speaker 1>of course covering the news, and I know that to

0:14:34.440 --> 0:14:37.160
<v Speaker 1>keep doing what I love, I need to start caring

0:14:37.200 --> 0:14:38.160
<v Speaker 1>for what gets.

0:14:37.920 --> 0:14:39.560
<v Speaker 3>Me there, my feet.

0:14:40.200 --> 0:14:42.920
<v Speaker 1>That's why I decided to try the Good Feet stores

0:14:43.080 --> 0:14:46.800
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0:14:46.960 --> 0:14:51.040
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0:14:51.080 --> 0:14:54.600
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0:14:54.920 --> 0:14:59.200
<v Speaker 1>balance and support. My feet, knees, and back are thanking

0:14:59.240 --> 0:15:02.480
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0:15:02.840 --> 0:15:11.520
<v Speaker 1>find the nearest store, or book your own free personalized fitting.

0:15:16.320 --> 0:15:19.360
<v Speaker 1>So you witnessed all this, how did it feed into

0:15:19.520 --> 0:15:24.440
<v Speaker 1>your change of heart about Donald Trump being kind of

0:15:24.560 --> 0:15:28.560
<v Speaker 1>cool and different and speaking his mind to Donald Trump

0:15:28.680 --> 0:15:31.440
<v Speaker 1>might not be so good for the country. And how

0:15:31.560 --> 0:15:35.760
<v Speaker 1>much was it influenced by what your dad experienced, or

0:15:36.400 --> 0:15:39.800
<v Speaker 1>simply by you becoming a more informed citizen.

0:15:40.600 --> 0:15:42.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so it's interesting. A lot of people think that

0:15:42.720 --> 0:15:45.280
<v Speaker 2>my dad got arrested and I switched parties a day after.

0:15:45.360 --> 0:15:47.840
<v Speaker 2>That's not how it happened. I actually was in law

0:15:47.840 --> 0:15:49.960
<v Speaker 2>school at the time, in my third year, but over

0:15:50.000 --> 0:15:54.080
<v Speaker 2>the first two years prior, I really started to shift personally.

0:15:54.440 --> 0:15:58.040
<v Speaker 2>I saw thing I really kind of experienced a political

0:15:58.040 --> 0:16:01.080
<v Speaker 2>awakening by going through day to day life, Like for example,

0:16:01.400 --> 0:16:03.040
<v Speaker 2>I had a friend who was doing a Mericorp in

0:16:03.040 --> 0:16:05.520
<v Speaker 2>Miami when I was a summer associate there, and I

0:16:05.560 --> 0:16:08.760
<v Speaker 2>went to her school and just saw the disparities between

0:16:08.760 --> 0:16:11.480
<v Speaker 2>what the children in her school had and what I

0:16:11.600 --> 0:16:13.920
<v Speaker 2>had growing up. And in that moment, I was like, well,

0:16:14.280 --> 0:16:16.640
<v Speaker 2>one party wants to make sure these kids have equal

0:16:16.680 --> 0:16:20.040
<v Speaker 2>access to education. The other party doesn't. Right. So I

0:16:20.040 --> 0:16:23.520
<v Speaker 2>had lived experiences like those, completely unrelated to my dad

0:16:23.520 --> 0:16:27.440
<v Speaker 2>that really began to move me away from Donald Trump,

0:16:27.440 --> 0:16:31.920
<v Speaker 2>and truth be told, being in those circles made me uncomfortable.

0:16:32.080 --> 0:16:34.760
<v Speaker 2>I just never really fit in to the quote unquote

0:16:34.800 --> 0:16:37.480
<v Speaker 2>maga circles. I never talked like them, I never acted

0:16:37.520 --> 0:16:40.960
<v Speaker 2>like them. I just I didn't enjoy being in those rooms.

0:16:41.680 --> 0:16:44.440
<v Speaker 2>And so while I stood by my dad while he

0:16:44.520 --> 0:16:46.400
<v Speaker 2>was in those circles and just kind of kept quiet

0:16:46.440 --> 0:16:48.680
<v Speaker 2>because I wanted to be a lawyer, right and I

0:16:48.760 --> 0:16:51.440
<v Speaker 2>didn't really want to be in this political circle. I'd

0:16:51.520 --> 0:16:53.960
<v Speaker 2>be in that shift a long time before he was arrested.

0:16:54.440 --> 0:16:56.840
<v Speaker 1>Tell me a little bit about being in those circles.

0:16:56.880 --> 0:16:58.760
<v Speaker 1>What was it that made you uncomfortable?

0:16:58.800 --> 0:17:03.040
<v Speaker 2>Aeron seem like a lot of people in those circles.

0:17:03.120 --> 0:17:05.600
<v Speaker 2>Number One, what really got me uncomfortable was the language

0:17:05.640 --> 0:17:08.200
<v Speaker 2>they used. I just I don't want to say I'm

0:17:08.240 --> 0:17:10.280
<v Speaker 2>like more proper, but like I don't curse in my

0:17:10.440 --> 0:17:14.159
<v Speaker 2>day to day life, like I don't demonize women, and

0:17:14.200 --> 0:17:16.600
<v Speaker 2>a lot of like the older men would do that,

0:17:17.080 --> 0:17:19.680
<v Speaker 2>and it was very uncomfortable, just very like I didn't

0:17:20.040 --> 0:17:22.560
<v Speaker 2>like it felt like kind of gross. Sometimes walking out

0:17:22.560 --> 0:17:26.680
<v Speaker 2>of those rooms, everything was very heavy on, like drinking

0:17:26.800 --> 0:17:29.360
<v Speaker 2>or smoking cigars. It was very like bro I felt

0:17:29.400 --> 0:17:32.040
<v Speaker 2>like I was in a frat house with people over

0:17:32.080 --> 0:17:34.159
<v Speaker 2>the age of fifty, and that to me, just like

0:17:34.640 --> 0:17:37.400
<v Speaker 2>never vibed. I just I didn't like it at all.

0:17:38.000 --> 0:17:41.000
<v Speaker 1>So you witnessed sexism, did you hear much racism in

0:17:41.040 --> 0:17:42.639
<v Speaker 1>those circles. I'm just curious.

0:17:43.040 --> 0:17:47.159
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I never heard like blatant racism, but there

0:17:47.160 --> 0:17:49.560
<v Speaker 2>are plenty of microaggressions. I mean, you can tell the

0:17:49.680 --> 0:17:53.600
<v Speaker 2>underlying thoughts and beliefs of a number of these people

0:17:53.680 --> 0:17:54.119
<v Speaker 2>for sure.

0:17:54.800 --> 0:17:59.000
<v Speaker 1>Well, you have a fascinating backstory. Thank you for spending

0:17:59.040 --> 0:18:02.639
<v Speaker 1>some time sharing it with me. So you decided to

0:18:03.720 --> 0:18:07.680
<v Speaker 1>not be a lawyer, and that you couldn't really earn

0:18:07.720 --> 0:18:12.000
<v Speaker 1>a living in some of these jobs. So what flipped

0:18:12.040 --> 0:18:15.720
<v Speaker 1>the switch for you to say, I want to help

0:18:15.760 --> 0:18:19.480
<v Speaker 1>people understand the world. I want to be a communicator.

0:18:20.119 --> 0:18:22.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So it was actually February of twenty twenty two.

0:18:22.720 --> 0:18:24.359
<v Speaker 2>I was about a year and a half out of

0:18:24.440 --> 0:18:27.200
<v Speaker 2>law school at the time, and when in Russia and

0:18:27.240 --> 0:18:29.439
<v Speaker 2>nade the Ukraine, and at the time I had family

0:18:29.520 --> 0:18:31.960
<v Speaker 2>in Ukraine and Kiev on the ground. I had an uncle,

0:18:32.040 --> 0:18:34.640
<v Speaker 2>a cousin, and an aunt, and I would hear from

0:18:34.680 --> 0:18:37.200
<v Speaker 2>them what they would be seeing outside of their front window.

0:18:37.320 --> 0:18:40.160
<v Speaker 2>Right they'd see tanks rolling down the streets, planes overhead.

0:18:40.520 --> 0:18:43.320
<v Speaker 2>And then I'd watch mainstream media or cable news here

0:18:43.320 --> 0:18:46.040
<v Speaker 2>in the United States, and I really saw a disparity

0:18:46.119 --> 0:18:49.960
<v Speaker 2>in the coverage and mainly in just how fast cable

0:18:50.000 --> 0:18:52.080
<v Speaker 2>news got the news to us here in the United States.

0:18:52.119 --> 0:18:54.120
<v Speaker 2>I would hear things from my uncle and then an

0:18:54.119 --> 0:18:56.520
<v Speaker 2>hour and a half later, I'd hear it on CNN,

0:18:56.960 --> 0:18:58.719
<v Speaker 2>and I was like, well, I think there's a vacuum

0:18:58.720 --> 0:19:01.080
<v Speaker 2>here that could be filled. I think that what cable

0:19:01.119 --> 0:19:03.440
<v Speaker 2>news is doing isn't necessarily as good of a job

0:19:03.480 --> 0:19:05.720
<v Speaker 2>as it should be. And so I just pulled out

0:19:05.840 --> 0:19:08.840
<v Speaker 2>my phone and just started sharing on TikTok what my

0:19:08.960 --> 0:19:11.440
<v Speaker 2>uncle and my family was sharing with me on the ground.

0:19:11.920 --> 0:19:14.040
<v Speaker 2>And within about a week I had a million followers

0:19:14.080 --> 0:19:16.720
<v Speaker 2>who were now interested in what was happening in Ukraine

0:19:17.080 --> 0:19:19.520
<v Speaker 2>and didn't many of them didn't even know where Ukraine

0:19:19.560 --> 0:19:21.240
<v Speaker 2>was on a map, but they were interested in what

0:19:21.280 --> 0:19:23.359
<v Speaker 2>was happening on the ground. And I think in that

0:19:23.480 --> 0:19:26.480
<v Speaker 2>moment I realized, Hey, there's something here. I can do

0:19:26.560 --> 0:19:30.480
<v Speaker 2>this not just about Ukraine, but I can really start

0:19:30.520 --> 0:19:32.879
<v Speaker 2>kind of educating folks about other topics as well. And

0:19:32.920 --> 0:19:35.520
<v Speaker 2>that didn't really happen until later on, but I spent

0:19:35.560 --> 0:19:38.639
<v Speaker 2>about six months every day posting ten to fifteen times

0:19:38.680 --> 0:19:42.120
<v Speaker 2>about Ukraine and what was happening when Russia was invading.

0:19:42.720 --> 0:19:48.280
<v Speaker 1>Did you ever feel any trepidation earon that as much

0:19:48.280 --> 0:19:52.760
<v Speaker 1>as your uncle was experiencing something firsthand. You know, as

0:19:52.800 --> 0:19:56.119
<v Speaker 1>an old school journalist, of course, there are things like

0:19:56.600 --> 0:20:00.680
<v Speaker 1>you know, vetting, double sourcing, making sh sure what you're

0:20:00.720 --> 0:20:05.879
<v Speaker 1>sharing with consumers is accurate. Did you ever feel like, Gosh,

0:20:06.160 --> 0:20:10.440
<v Speaker 1>I may need to understand the situation more than simply

0:20:10.760 --> 0:20:13.400
<v Speaker 1>my uncle's eyewitness account.

0:20:13.720 --> 0:20:16.400
<v Speaker 2>For sure. And I think, especially at the beginning, there

0:20:16.400 --> 0:20:18.959
<v Speaker 2>were times where I would actually hear something from on

0:20:19.000 --> 0:20:21.439
<v Speaker 2>the ground, like, for example, I remember hearing that President

0:20:21.520 --> 0:20:24.720
<v Speaker 2>Zelenski there was a story where President Zelensky was either

0:20:25.280 --> 0:20:28.520
<v Speaker 2>asked to leave Kiev out of fears for his safety

0:20:28.640 --> 0:20:30.240
<v Speaker 2>or something like that. It was like a bombshell story,

0:20:30.240 --> 0:20:33.040
<v Speaker 2>and I heard it because Ukrainian media were kind of

0:20:33.080 --> 0:20:36.320
<v Speaker 2>talking about it from family. And then I was like, well,

0:20:36.359 --> 0:20:39.440
<v Speaker 2>I can't necessarily report this. This kind of seems like

0:20:39.480 --> 0:20:43.119
<v Speaker 2>a crazy story to talk about without any corroboration. An

0:20:43.160 --> 0:20:45.840
<v Speaker 2>hour later, CNN reported and then I reported it. But

0:20:46.119 --> 0:20:49.040
<v Speaker 2>I think over time I grew more comfortable in kind

0:20:49.040 --> 0:20:51.200
<v Speaker 2>of doing my own kind of due diligence and doing

0:20:51.200 --> 0:20:53.199
<v Speaker 2>my own research and doing my own bedding, and it

0:20:53.240 --> 0:20:55.720
<v Speaker 2>got to the point where I've kind of established my

0:20:55.800 --> 0:20:58.399
<v Speaker 2>own kind of set of ethics that I have for

0:20:58.440 --> 0:21:01.760
<v Speaker 2>anything that I put out was or that. As a lawyer,

0:21:01.880 --> 0:21:03.879
<v Speaker 2>I would never rely in a brief to a federal

0:21:04.040 --> 0:21:06.640
<v Speaker 2>to a judge, I would get disbarred. I would never

0:21:06.680 --> 0:21:09.080
<v Speaker 2>put something out on my social media that could get

0:21:09.080 --> 0:21:11.679
<v Speaker 2>me disbarred in a court room. So it's not necessarily

0:21:11.680 --> 0:21:15.280
<v Speaker 2>the traditional journalistic ethics, but kind of take those legal

0:21:15.280 --> 0:21:17.679
<v Speaker 2>ethics and really apply them to what I do.

0:21:17.960 --> 0:21:21.360
<v Speaker 1>And there's transparency in terms of telling your audience if

0:21:21.400 --> 0:21:25.400
<v Speaker 1>something hasn't been corroborated yet. I mean, you're very honest

0:21:25.480 --> 0:21:29.440
<v Speaker 1>about that, and so they understand that something may need

0:21:29.480 --> 0:21:36.119
<v Speaker 1>to be re reported or adjusted to events that may occur.

0:21:36.320 --> 0:21:39.639
<v Speaker 2>Right, Yeah, for sure. And there are definitely times where

0:21:40.480 --> 0:21:43.239
<v Speaker 2>I get things wrong, and there have been, and there

0:21:43.240 --> 0:21:45.760
<v Speaker 2>are times where stories have had to be kind of

0:21:46.359 --> 0:21:50.000
<v Speaker 2>not necessarily edited but recanted and I repost and I say, listen,

0:21:50.040 --> 0:21:51.840
<v Speaker 2>this was wrong and here's why it was wrong. And

0:21:51.880 --> 0:21:54.400
<v Speaker 2>I think that all builds to kind of the authenticity

0:21:54.440 --> 0:21:56.720
<v Speaker 2>of the platform that I built. I'm not afraid to

0:21:56.760 --> 0:22:00.560
<v Speaker 2>say when I'm wrong or when a news report that

0:22:00.600 --> 0:22:03.560
<v Speaker 2>I kind of share ends up being recantid for example,

0:22:03.560 --> 0:22:05.159
<v Speaker 2>which has happened a number of times.

0:22:05.440 --> 0:22:09.120
<v Speaker 1>Right, Well, let's talk about this transition a little bit

0:22:09.200 --> 0:22:12.479
<v Speaker 1>more and about legacy media, because I know you go

0:22:12.560 --> 0:22:15.639
<v Speaker 1>on a tear about legacy media and it sometimes hurts

0:22:15.680 --> 0:22:19.119
<v Speaker 1>my feelings. I'm totally getting, but I think there's a

0:22:19.160 --> 0:22:22.320
<v Speaker 1>lot of things wrong with legacy media myself. But I

0:22:22.359 --> 0:22:24.719
<v Speaker 1>want to ask you about something you wrote on your substack.

0:22:24.920 --> 0:22:28.720
<v Speaker 1>You said, for years, legacy media outlets have painted Donald

0:22:28.760 --> 0:22:30.600
<v Speaker 1>Trump as a threat to our way of life. But

0:22:30.680 --> 0:22:33.480
<v Speaker 1>once he won, they changed their tunes. Suddenly he wasn't

0:22:33.480 --> 0:22:36.639
<v Speaker 1>a danger to democracy anymore. It was as if a

0:22:36.760 --> 0:22:41.120
<v Speaker 1>switch flipped and legacy media became concerned about Trump's potential

0:22:41.200 --> 0:22:45.280
<v Speaker 1>to impact their financial interests. And that's exactly why my

0:22:45.440 --> 0:22:49.520
<v Speaker 1>platform has seen such rapid growth since the election. All Right,

0:22:49.880 --> 0:22:52.159
<v Speaker 1>So let's take a look at what you said that

0:22:52.480 --> 0:22:54.520
<v Speaker 1>and investigated.

0:22:53.840 --> 0:22:54.760
<v Speaker 3>A little bit further.

0:22:55.480 --> 0:22:57.800
<v Speaker 1>Tell me a little more about what you mean and

0:22:57.880 --> 0:23:01.440
<v Speaker 1>why you think legacy media has really lost the room,

0:23:01.560 --> 0:23:02.320
<v Speaker 1>so to speak.

0:23:02.880 --> 0:23:05.600
<v Speaker 2>Well, I think legacy media or media generally, has lost

0:23:05.920 --> 0:23:10.199
<v Speaker 2>started losing the room the moment they started putting money first.

0:23:10.560 --> 0:23:13.160
<v Speaker 2>And I think it goes back to a long time ago.

0:23:13.240 --> 0:23:16.360
<v Speaker 2>It's not recent. It's when the Washington Post first went

0:23:16.440 --> 0:23:18.600
<v Speaker 2>from a free paper to one that you have to

0:23:18.640 --> 0:23:21.440
<v Speaker 2>pay ten cents for and then thirty cents for. Now

0:23:21.440 --> 0:23:23.200
<v Speaker 2>you have to pay several dollars a month for. When

0:23:23.240 --> 0:23:25.719
<v Speaker 2>you put money above the stories and you put stories

0:23:25.720 --> 0:23:29.120
<v Speaker 2>behind a paywall, and you look to your bottom kind

0:23:29.160 --> 0:23:31.480
<v Speaker 2>of line more than you do to what you're reporting,

0:23:31.840 --> 0:23:34.159
<v Speaker 2>I think you lose trust in the viewers and the

0:23:34.240 --> 0:23:36.080
<v Speaker 2>viewers that you're kind of trying to reach.

0:23:36.400 --> 0:23:39.639
<v Speaker 1>But newspapers have charged for a very long time, errand

0:23:39.840 --> 0:23:45.479
<v Speaker 1>and they did maintain the trust of their readers, and

0:23:45.840 --> 0:23:50.560
<v Speaker 1>broadcast news really maintained the trust of their viewers. I mean,

0:23:50.640 --> 0:23:55.320
<v Speaker 1>they do have to pay their employees, and journalists have

0:23:55.359 --> 0:23:57.719
<v Speaker 1>to make a living, and they can't necessarily do it

0:23:57.800 --> 0:24:03.320
<v Speaker 1>through advertising alone. I feel like something more significant and

0:24:03.400 --> 0:24:07.840
<v Speaker 1>nefarious has happened actually in recent weeks in terms of

0:24:07.880 --> 0:24:11.440
<v Speaker 1>the trust factor. So you're saying news should be free,

0:24:11.840 --> 0:24:14.320
<v Speaker 1>which is a very difficult model. I have to be

0:24:14.400 --> 0:24:17.120
<v Speaker 1>honest and not really tenable.

0:24:17.760 --> 0:24:19.760
<v Speaker 2>I tend to agree with you, and I think there

0:24:19.800 --> 0:24:21.399
<v Speaker 2>needs to be a solution. I mean, my dream is

0:24:21.440 --> 0:24:23.480
<v Speaker 2>for all news to be free. I realize that that's

0:24:23.480 --> 0:24:26.040
<v Speaker 2>not necessarily always realistic, but I do take your point

0:24:26.080 --> 0:24:28.960
<v Speaker 2>in that, especially recently, especially over the past I guess

0:24:28.960 --> 0:24:32.160
<v Speaker 2>since November, but really since twenty sixteen, since Trump first ran,

0:24:32.240 --> 0:24:34.960
<v Speaker 2>I mean, the moment he started attacking the press as

0:24:34.960 --> 0:24:36.760
<v Speaker 2>the enemy of the people. I really think we have

0:24:36.840 --> 0:24:39.280
<v Speaker 2>seen kind of a change in the tune of the press.

0:24:39.320 --> 0:24:42.160
<v Speaker 2>But it really wasn't until I guess the past six

0:24:42.200 --> 0:24:45.040
<v Speaker 2>months where he actually went after the press legally that

0:24:45.080 --> 0:24:46.879
<v Speaker 2>we've really seen a dramatic shift.

0:24:47.160 --> 0:24:49.640
<v Speaker 1>I think talk about those two phases erin because I'm

0:24:49.680 --> 0:24:53.280
<v Speaker 1>so fascinated by this as well. I think that earworm

0:24:53.600 --> 0:24:57.960
<v Speaker 1>that he incorporated early in his administration, the first time around,

0:24:57.960 --> 0:25:03.200
<v Speaker 1>and actually during his campaign, this moniker of fake news, yeah,

0:25:03.680 --> 0:25:10.120
<v Speaker 1>was so corrosive to media because it instilled this lack

0:25:10.160 --> 0:25:16.240
<v Speaker 1>of trustworthiness and this dismissiveness of anything that was reported

0:25:16.280 --> 0:25:20.840
<v Speaker 1>about Donald Trump that was negative. But it was incredibly effective,

0:25:21.040 --> 0:25:22.000
<v Speaker 1>wasn't it.

0:25:22.000 --> 0:25:25.080
<v Speaker 2>It was? It was I mean, it turned a large

0:25:25.119 --> 0:25:28.320
<v Speaker 2>swath of people away from cable news, away from even

0:25:28.359 --> 0:25:33.240
<v Speaker 2>reading anymore, and it really hurt our democracy tremendously. I

0:25:33.320 --> 0:25:35.879
<v Speaker 2>really think that was one of the biggest catalysts to

0:25:36.359 --> 0:25:38.760
<v Speaker 2>kind of where we are today, because when you can't

0:25:38.760 --> 0:25:40.720
<v Speaker 2>trust the news, when you can't trust what you're reading

0:25:40.800 --> 0:25:43.440
<v Speaker 2>or what you're watching anymore, or even if you do

0:25:43.480 --> 0:25:45.159
<v Speaker 2>trust it, but there is just a little bird in

0:25:45.160 --> 0:25:47.320
<v Speaker 2>the back of your head that says, maybe this isn't

0:25:47.400 --> 0:25:50.600
<v Speaker 2>fully right or fully accurate, because Donald Trump says it's not.

0:25:51.160 --> 0:25:53.679
<v Speaker 1>And I think that's also contributed to the rise of

0:25:53.760 --> 0:25:58.600
<v Speaker 1>right wing media, because he only says the journalists he

0:25:58.600 --> 0:26:01.199
<v Speaker 1>claims are enemies of the people, or the news that

0:26:01.280 --> 0:26:06.600
<v Speaker 1>he claims is fake is only content that is critical

0:26:06.640 --> 0:26:10.560
<v Speaker 1>of him, So people get an extremely warped perspective. And

0:26:10.600 --> 0:26:13.040
<v Speaker 1>the way he's taken on journalists and these sort of

0:26:13.359 --> 0:26:17.640
<v Speaker 1>oval office gaggles, whether you're talking about Caitlin Collins and

0:26:17.680 --> 0:26:22.200
<v Speaker 1>insulting her Peter Alexander, I couldn't believe how he unleashed

0:26:22.240 --> 0:26:25.679
<v Speaker 1>on Peter Alexander, who's not only an incredibly nice person

0:26:25.760 --> 0:26:32.119
<v Speaker 1>but a really experienced, intelligent reporter, was just honestly appalling

0:26:32.240 --> 0:26:36.840
<v Speaker 1>to me. And so I think he has really instilled

0:26:37.400 --> 0:26:42.880
<v Speaker 1>this disdain, honestly for media that is not lauding him

0:26:43.080 --> 0:26:47.000
<v Speaker 1>or celebrating him. And then, as you mentioned, Phase two

0:26:47.280 --> 0:26:50.640
<v Speaker 1>was a whole new level where he was actually suing

0:26:51.080 --> 0:26:57.560
<v Speaker 1>these media outlets for quote unquote offenses that most experts

0:26:57.640 --> 0:27:01.800
<v Speaker 1>say could have been defended in a court of law,

0:27:02.040 --> 0:27:06.399
<v Speaker 1>starting with ABC News and George Stephanopolis and then moving

0:27:06.440 --> 0:27:11.520
<v Speaker 1>on to other news organizations and most recently CBS Paramount

0:27:11.560 --> 0:27:16.199
<v Speaker 1>in sixty minutes. So, talk about that and how you

0:27:16.320 --> 0:27:19.000
<v Speaker 1>felt as a lawyer. I'm not a lawyer. My late

0:27:19.080 --> 0:27:20.800
<v Speaker 1>husband was a lawyer, so I used to talk to

0:27:20.840 --> 0:27:24.800
<v Speaker 1>him about all this stuff. But how you have felt

0:27:24.840 --> 0:27:30.520
<v Speaker 1>about this new level that we're seeing Donald Trump unleash

0:27:31.320 --> 0:27:33.920
<v Speaker 1>on traditional journalism.

0:27:34.320 --> 0:27:36.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean listen as a lawyer, and it's not

0:27:36.040 --> 0:27:38.919
<v Speaker 2>just traditional journalism, it's on law firms as well well.

0:27:39.040 --> 0:27:40.560
<v Speaker 3>Yes, of course, right.

0:27:40.840 --> 0:27:43.320
<v Speaker 2>And as a lawyer in law school and just in practice,

0:27:43.359 --> 0:27:46.639
<v Speaker 2>you're taught to kind of be a zealous advocate for

0:27:46.680 --> 0:27:50.440
<v Speaker 2>your client, for the issues that you're fighting for. If

0:27:50.880 --> 0:27:54.399
<v Speaker 2>these cable news shows, these legacy media companies don't fight

0:27:54.520 --> 0:27:57.760
<v Speaker 2>back and don't have lawyers who are willing to fight back,

0:27:58.160 --> 0:28:01.160
<v Speaker 2>what does that say for when you're going to need

0:28:01.240 --> 0:28:04.480
<v Speaker 2>someone to fight for you. It's slowly kind of eroding

0:28:04.520 --> 0:28:06.520
<v Speaker 2>at the trust of the legal profession. In my opinion,

0:28:06.560 --> 0:28:09.480
<v Speaker 2>it's slowly eroding at the trust of the media apparatus

0:28:09.480 --> 0:28:11.960
<v Speaker 2>in our country. And I will say it's a very

0:28:12.320 --> 0:28:15.119
<v Speaker 2>dangerous path that we're on. I tell everyone that Donald

0:28:15.160 --> 0:28:17.760
<v Speaker 2>Trump two point zero is so much more dangerous than

0:28:17.800 --> 0:28:20.679
<v Speaker 2>Donald Trump one point oh for the simple reason that

0:28:20.680 --> 0:28:24.240
<v Speaker 2>he's not facing reelection. He has complete immunity for any

0:28:24.240 --> 0:28:27.000
<v Speaker 2>official acts by the Supreme Court. He doesn't need to

0:28:27.080 --> 0:28:30.320
<v Speaker 2>win another race in four years. He doesn't really care

0:28:30.359 --> 0:28:32.280
<v Speaker 2>what happens on a day to day, and he's willing

0:28:32.320 --> 0:28:35.359
<v Speaker 2>to push kind of the bounds of the United States Constitution,

0:28:35.480 --> 0:28:37.919
<v Speaker 2>the bounds of the law, to see what he can do,

0:28:37.960 --> 0:28:40.480
<v Speaker 2>how far he really can go. And when you capitulate

0:28:40.520 --> 0:28:43.080
<v Speaker 2>to that, when you will allow him to win in

0:28:43.080 --> 0:28:45.719
<v Speaker 2>a case that probably is winnable for yourself. I mean,

0:28:45.760 --> 0:28:48.520
<v Speaker 2>ABC News could have won that case, CBS News can

0:28:48.560 --> 0:28:52.080
<v Speaker 2>win this case. If they capitulate to him, it just

0:28:52.200 --> 0:28:55.440
<v Speaker 2>gives him permission to do it again and even worse.

0:28:55.840 --> 0:28:58.000
<v Speaker 2>And I think that is a dangerous part. Every time

0:28:58.040 --> 0:29:01.360
<v Speaker 2>someone folds and doesn't fight back, he's emboldened to do more.

0:29:01.720 --> 0:29:03.480
<v Speaker 2>And we're seeing it time and time again.

0:29:03.520 --> 0:29:07.240
<v Speaker 1>And clearly with the CBS situation. It is a quid

0:29:07.360 --> 0:29:12.920
<v Speaker 1>pro quo for the Paramount Skydance merger, and it's really

0:29:13.080 --> 0:29:18.560
<v Speaker 1>all about money and people not wanting to stop this merger,

0:29:19.160 --> 0:29:24.200
<v Speaker 1>specifically Sherry Redstone. And there used to be such a

0:29:24.480 --> 0:29:29.880
<v Speaker 1>strong division between these corporations who own these media companies.

0:29:29.920 --> 0:29:33.400
<v Speaker 1>When I was at NBC, I would never listen to

0:29:33.840 --> 0:29:38.240
<v Speaker 1>someone at GE who owned us at the time, telling

0:29:38.280 --> 0:29:40.400
<v Speaker 1>me what to do or how to do an interview

0:29:40.480 --> 0:29:44.240
<v Speaker 1>or criticizing something I did. I mean, I was in

0:29:44.280 --> 0:29:47.160
<v Speaker 1>a position of power because I was on a very

0:29:47.200 --> 0:29:50.360
<v Speaker 1>successful show, and I basically told them to pound sand

0:29:50.440 --> 0:29:53.320
<v Speaker 1>and stay in their lane, I mean, which is not

0:29:53.520 --> 0:29:57.680
<v Speaker 1>necessarily a position a lot of journalists might find themselves in.

0:29:58.120 --> 0:30:02.920
<v Speaker 1>So now you have a lot of anticipatory obedience on

0:30:03.000 --> 0:30:06.680
<v Speaker 1>the part of these journalists who are afraid to come

0:30:06.720 --> 0:30:11.400
<v Speaker 1>down too hard. And indeed, we've seen ABC used executives

0:30:11.480 --> 0:30:14.160
<v Speaker 1>telling the people on the view to tone it down.

0:30:14.640 --> 0:30:20.440
<v Speaker 1>We've seen other examples of executives, corporate executives telling their

0:30:20.520 --> 0:30:24.360
<v Speaker 1>journalists to take it easy. W NET I read took

0:30:24.400 --> 0:30:27.240
<v Speaker 1>out a part of a documentary where somebody was very

0:30:27.240 --> 0:30:32.360
<v Speaker 1>critical of Donald Trump. Do you think people appreciate how

0:30:32.440 --> 0:30:34.280
<v Speaker 1>fed up and dangerous this is.

0:30:35.480 --> 0:30:39.680
<v Speaker 2>No, I don't. I don't think people, especially people my age,

0:30:40.160 --> 0:30:42.640
<v Speaker 2>don't realize it because we've never lived through something like this.

0:30:43.240 --> 0:30:46.040
<v Speaker 2>A lot of I guess my parents' generation may appreciate

0:30:46.080 --> 0:30:48.959
<v Speaker 2>it a little more because they're coming from My parents

0:30:49.240 --> 0:30:52.760
<v Speaker 2>immigrated over from the Soviet Union, right, This was more

0:30:52.800 --> 0:30:55.840
<v Speaker 2>common in Russia. This isn't common in the United States

0:30:55.880 --> 0:30:58.400
<v Speaker 2>of America. People my age don't appreciate it, and they

0:30:58.440 --> 0:31:01.640
<v Speaker 2>won't appreciate it until it packs them directly. And I

0:31:01.680 --> 0:31:03.720
<v Speaker 2>think that's a very dangerous part in all of this.

0:31:04.120 --> 0:31:07.480
<v Speaker 1>Do you think a lot of Americans don't understand basic civics?

0:31:08.520 --> 0:31:11.160
<v Speaker 2>I do, and it's not their fault. I think it's

0:31:11.160 --> 0:31:13.800
<v Speaker 2>the fault of our education system. I think the fact

0:31:13.800 --> 0:31:16.960
<v Speaker 2>that we don't have mandatory Civics education in every school

0:31:17.000 --> 0:31:19.959
<v Speaker 2>across the country is a problem. I think that we

0:31:20.040 --> 0:31:23.280
<v Speaker 2>need a baseline Civics curriculum. But the fact is, the

0:31:23.320 --> 0:31:25.239
<v Speaker 2>fact of the matter is we're in a situation now

0:31:25.280 --> 0:31:29.400
<v Speaker 2>where Oklahoma is teaching is forcing its students to learn

0:31:29.480 --> 0:31:33.120
<v Speaker 2>about election denihalism in the twenty twenty election, and that's

0:31:33.160 --> 0:31:35.520
<v Speaker 2>to them, that's civics to them, and that is dangerous.

0:31:36.000 --> 0:31:39.400
<v Speaker 2>So if we don't have that baseline curriculum, it's it's

0:31:39.440 --> 0:31:40.000
<v Speaker 2>going to be bad.

0:31:47.920 --> 0:31:50.320
<v Speaker 1>Hi everyone, it's me Kittie Couric. You know, if you've

0:31:50.360 --> 0:31:53.120
<v Speaker 1>been following me on social media, you know I love

0:31:53.160 --> 0:31:56.320
<v Speaker 1>to cook, or at least try, especially alongside some of

0:31:56.360 --> 0:32:00.000
<v Speaker 1>my favorite chefs and foodies like Bennie Blanco, Jake Cohen

0:32:00.040 --> 0:32:04.520
<v Speaker 1>and Lighty Hoyke, Alison Roman and Ininagarten. So I started

0:32:04.520 --> 0:32:08.080
<v Speaker 1>a free newsletter called good Taste to share recipes, tips

0:32:08.120 --> 0:32:11.480
<v Speaker 1>and kitchen mustaves. Just sign up at Katie Couric dot

0:32:11.480 --> 0:32:15.000
<v Speaker 1>com slash good Taste. That's k A t I E

0:32:15.240 --> 0:32:19.080
<v Speaker 1>C O U r I c dot com slash good Taste.

0:32:19.320 --> 0:32:25.080
<v Speaker 1>I promised your taste buds will be happy you did.

0:32:31.480 --> 0:32:34.000
<v Speaker 1>I wanted to ask you about a recent tear you

0:32:34.080 --> 0:32:37.520
<v Speaker 1>went on Aaron about Jake Tapper and Alex Thompson's book,

0:32:37.840 --> 0:32:41.000
<v Speaker 1>accusing them of being part of a coordinated effort to

0:32:41.080 --> 0:32:45.960
<v Speaker 1>smear Joe Biden. Why don't you think that's a legitimate

0:32:46.040 --> 0:32:49.720
<v Speaker 1>news story? And you know I interviewed Jake and Alex.

0:32:49.760 --> 0:32:51.960
<v Speaker 1>I've known Jake Tapper for a long time. You know,

0:32:52.000 --> 0:32:56.400
<v Speaker 1>we're kind of contemporaries, and I'm curious why you didn't

0:32:56.440 --> 0:32:59.160
<v Speaker 1>think that was a subject worth exploring.

0:33:00.320 --> 0:33:02.920
<v Speaker 2>I never said that it wasn't a subject worth exploring.

0:33:03.000 --> 0:33:05.240
<v Speaker 2>I think it was a subject worth exploring. I think

0:33:05.320 --> 0:33:08.560
<v Speaker 2>how it's gone about in terms of presenting to the

0:33:08.600 --> 0:33:12.040
<v Speaker 2>public is the problem a couple things. Number One, I

0:33:12.040 --> 0:33:13.760
<v Speaker 2>think if you have all this evidence and you're learning

0:33:13.760 --> 0:33:17.560
<v Speaker 2>all this information about President Biden's allegedimental decline during the

0:33:17.640 --> 0:33:21.040
<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty four election, as a journalist, to responsibility to

0:33:21.080 --> 0:33:22.680
<v Speaker 2>release it when you have it and when you vet it,

0:33:22.720 --> 0:33:24.920
<v Speaker 2>and that's during the election, so that the public is aware.

0:33:24.960 --> 0:33:27.800
<v Speaker 2>That's number one. And a number of facts came out afterwards,

0:33:27.840 --> 0:33:29.000
<v Speaker 2>I know, but there were a number of facts that

0:33:29.040 --> 0:33:31.520
<v Speaker 2>they learned of on the campaign trip. So that's number one.

0:33:31.720 --> 0:33:34.920
<v Speaker 2>I think Number two is the way it's being presented now.

0:33:35.120 --> 0:33:38.120
<v Speaker 2>President Biden is no longer president. He is not the

0:33:38.120 --> 0:33:40.960
<v Speaker 2>commander in chief. He is not making decisions. You can

0:33:41.000 --> 0:33:43.480
<v Speaker 2>go and sell your book all you want. I have

0:33:43.560 --> 0:33:45.960
<v Speaker 2>no issues of Tapper and Thompson doing that, But when

0:33:45.960 --> 0:33:50.200
<v Speaker 2>you turn CNN into Tapper's book agent every night, and

0:33:50.280 --> 0:33:54.040
<v Speaker 2>every single interview asks about Tapper's book. That to me

0:33:54.160 --> 0:33:56.800
<v Speaker 2>is a problem because that seems like CNN is just

0:33:56.880 --> 0:34:00.200
<v Speaker 2>trying to sell the book of one of their biggest hosts,

0:34:00.520 --> 0:34:04.959
<v Speaker 2>not necessarily kind of doing honest and honest journalism. And

0:34:05.000 --> 0:34:07.600
<v Speaker 2>so that's my biggest critique, and I think that the

0:34:07.640 --> 0:34:10.600
<v Speaker 2>way it's kind of been presented publicly is this kind

0:34:10.640 --> 0:34:15.279
<v Speaker 2>of US versus them mentality of like, we want to

0:34:15.440 --> 0:34:18.959
<v Speaker 2>push this narrative that every Democrat running in twenty twenty

0:34:19.000 --> 0:34:21.360
<v Speaker 2>eight needs to answer what they thought about President Biden

0:34:21.400 --> 0:34:24.200
<v Speaker 2>in twenty twenty four, when that's not where we are

0:34:24.239 --> 0:34:27.719
<v Speaker 2>as a country. That's not what everyday Americans care about.

0:34:27.760 --> 0:34:29.759
<v Speaker 2>They care about who's in office right now and what

0:34:29.800 --> 0:34:32.480
<v Speaker 2>the person in office is doing, and if your coverage

0:34:32.560 --> 0:34:35.480
<v Speaker 2>isn't focused on that, then that's a problem in my opinion.

0:34:35.719 --> 0:34:38.160
<v Speaker 1>Well, I agree with you on a number of points,

0:34:38.200 --> 0:34:41.520
<v Speaker 1>but just as my personal rebuttal, I think you're right.

0:34:41.560 --> 0:34:45.080
<v Speaker 1>I think they were obligated to divulge any information they've

0:34:45.200 --> 0:34:50.440
<v Speaker 1>discovered during the campaign. They would say, ninety percent of

0:34:50.640 --> 0:34:53.440
<v Speaker 1>what we learned that was going on behind the scenes

0:34:53.480 --> 0:34:57.040
<v Speaker 1>we learned after he dropped out and after the election.

0:34:57.920 --> 0:35:01.480
<v Speaker 1>I also think that the should have divulged it at

0:35:01.480 --> 0:35:05.160
<v Speaker 1>the time. I agree with you wholeheartedly. There was something

0:35:05.239 --> 0:35:09.000
<v Speaker 1>gross and unseemly about the way Jake was hawking his

0:35:09.080 --> 0:35:11.680
<v Speaker 1>book every day on his show and holding it up

0:35:11.719 --> 0:35:14.319
<v Speaker 1>and telling people to buy it and using it as

0:35:14.320 --> 0:35:17.560
<v Speaker 1>a platform to sell books. I thought was really yucky.

0:35:18.120 --> 0:35:21.800
<v Speaker 1>I do think that he has aggressively covered Donald Trump,

0:35:21.880 --> 0:35:24.840
<v Speaker 1>so I don't think it's an either or situation. And

0:35:24.920 --> 0:35:29.239
<v Speaker 1>I guess finally, many people would argue Joe Biden and

0:35:29.280 --> 0:35:32.480
<v Speaker 1>his inner circle of enablers, and by the way, I

0:35:32.520 --> 0:35:35.280
<v Speaker 1>know Joe Biden. I like Joe Biden, but they actually

0:35:35.320 --> 0:35:38.319
<v Speaker 1>are the reason we have Donald Trump, because had he

0:35:38.440 --> 0:35:42.400
<v Speaker 1>dropped out earlier and allowed a primary process to go forward,

0:35:42.880 --> 0:35:47.080
<v Speaker 1>the best candidate would have emerged to beat Donald Trump.

0:35:47.160 --> 0:35:50.439
<v Speaker 1>And leaving Kamala Harris as the heir apparent with only

0:35:50.480 --> 0:35:53.480
<v Speaker 1>one hundred and seven days to campaign was just not

0:35:53.680 --> 0:35:57.239
<v Speaker 1>an adequate amount of time to introduce her to the

0:35:57.280 --> 0:36:01.640
<v Speaker 1>American people. And that the judgment he and his inner

0:36:01.640 --> 0:36:06.600
<v Speaker 1>circle showed got us in this situation where democracy is

0:36:06.880 --> 0:36:08.080
<v Speaker 1>so much in peril.

0:36:08.600 --> 0:36:11.200
<v Speaker 3>So that's what I would say to you about that.

0:36:11.880 --> 0:36:14.920
<v Speaker 2>I mean, you might be right. Hindsight is obviously twenty twenty.

0:36:14.960 --> 0:36:17.000
<v Speaker 2>But at the same time, I have my own kind

0:36:17.040 --> 0:36:19.080
<v Speaker 2>of small rebuttal to that and.

0:36:20.920 --> 0:36:23.240
<v Speaker 3>Your move, sir, Yeah.

0:36:23.080 --> 0:36:25.640
<v Speaker 2>I mean listen, My rebuttal to that is, Kamala Harris

0:36:25.680 --> 0:36:29.160
<v Speaker 2>didn't lose this election. Donald Trump won the election. And

0:36:29.560 --> 0:36:33.359
<v Speaker 2>I truly, personally, I don't know a Democrat that would

0:36:33.400 --> 0:36:35.680
<v Speaker 2>have beaten Donald Trump in twenty twenty four. Whether Biden

0:36:35.719 --> 0:36:39.120
<v Speaker 2>dropped out six months earlier, a year earlier, the political

0:36:39.200 --> 0:36:43.440
<v Speaker 2>headwinds were so strong against any Democratic nominee, whether it

0:36:43.440 --> 0:36:47.000
<v Speaker 2>was Vice President Harris or Governor Newsom or Governor Whitmer,

0:36:47.520 --> 0:36:50.960
<v Speaker 2>and arguably more so strongly against someone who is not

0:36:51.280 --> 0:36:53.960
<v Speaker 2>Biden or Harris, because they're just not as well known

0:36:54.000 --> 0:36:54.600
<v Speaker 2>to the country.

0:36:54.920 --> 0:36:57.719
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but they would have had time to introduce themselves,

0:36:57.719 --> 0:36:59.880
<v Speaker 1>and I mean you're right, could have, would have, should have.

0:37:00.080 --> 0:37:04.440
<v Speaker 1>Hindsight is twenty twenty, but there is I think a

0:37:04.520 --> 0:37:08.960
<v Speaker 1>pretty powerful argument to be made that things might have

0:37:09.120 --> 0:37:12.560
<v Speaker 1>and will never know, turned out differently if Joe Biden

0:37:12.600 --> 0:37:16.560
<v Speaker 1>had stepped down earlier, as he said during his campaign

0:37:16.600 --> 0:37:18.200
<v Speaker 1>that he was going to be a bridge to the

0:37:18.239 --> 0:37:22.640
<v Speaker 1>next generation. Flanked by Corey Booker, Gretchen Whitmer, and Kamala

0:37:22.680 --> 0:37:24.919
<v Speaker 1>Harris and then he reneged on that.

0:37:25.560 --> 0:37:28.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and listen, I'm not defending President Biden. I'm not

0:37:28.280 --> 0:37:30.120
<v Speaker 2>saying that he should have stayed in the race as

0:37:30.120 --> 0:37:33.439
<v Speaker 2>long as he did. I don't know, and truth be told,

0:37:33.440 --> 0:37:34.960
<v Speaker 2>maybe it would have been better. But at the end

0:37:35.000 --> 0:37:38.320
<v Speaker 2>of the day, hindsight is twenty twenty, what happened happened.

0:37:38.360 --> 0:37:40.960
<v Speaker 2>And now I think it's important to look forward because

0:37:41.320 --> 0:37:44.160
<v Speaker 2>Democratic Party isn't unning against Donald Trump anymore. It's not

0:37:44.239 --> 0:37:47.279
<v Speaker 2>running against necessarily the MAGA movement. It's going to be

0:37:47.320 --> 0:37:51.520
<v Speaker 2>running against a completely different form of Republicanism come twenty

0:37:51.560 --> 0:37:53.400
<v Speaker 2>twenty eight, and I think that the party needs to

0:37:53.400 --> 0:37:54.640
<v Speaker 2>look forward, not backwards.

0:37:54.920 --> 0:37:58.479
<v Speaker 1>Okay, let me ask you about legacy media a little

0:37:58.520 --> 0:38:01.560
<v Speaker 1>bit more, because I know you say Earn News aggregator

0:38:01.760 --> 0:38:04.880
<v Speaker 1>that you're not an investigated journalist, and a lot of

0:38:04.920 --> 0:38:09.759
<v Speaker 1>your videos are regurgitating breaking news headlines, giving them context

0:38:09.840 --> 0:38:13.879
<v Speaker 1>and perspective, granted, and your take on them. But isn't

0:38:13.880 --> 0:38:16.799
<v Speaker 1>the work you do made possible by legacy media and

0:38:16.840 --> 0:38:18.960
<v Speaker 1>all the reporters out in the field, And don't you

0:38:19.000 --> 0:38:22.239
<v Speaker 1>have to be careful about disparaging their work too much?

0:38:22.320 --> 0:38:24.759
<v Speaker 1>Because without them, you wouldn't have a job.

0:38:25.680 --> 0:38:29.040
<v Speaker 2>Well, so I'll push back a little bit. About fifty

0:38:29.120 --> 0:38:31.759
<v Speaker 2>to sixty percent of the stories that I cover are

0:38:31.800 --> 0:38:36.120
<v Speaker 2>actually stories that I source myself. It's not necessarily aggregating

0:38:36.160 --> 0:38:40.080
<v Speaker 2>other breaking news headlines. I have notifications on for every

0:38:40.080 --> 0:38:42.600
<v Speaker 2>single member of Congress, every single world leader. When Donald

0:38:42.640 --> 0:38:45.279
<v Speaker 2>Trump posts something on truth social I read it and

0:38:45.320 --> 0:38:46.839
<v Speaker 2>I report on it. I don't wait for the New

0:38:46.920 --> 0:38:48.880
<v Speaker 2>York Times to read it, report on it, and report

0:38:48.920 --> 0:38:52.120
<v Speaker 2>on what the time said. Right. I watch c Span religiously.

0:38:52.160 --> 0:38:54.000
<v Speaker 2>When I see something on c Span, I kind of

0:38:54.000 --> 0:38:56.840
<v Speaker 2>throw it out there. I get tips to my email

0:38:56.880 --> 0:39:00.480
<v Speaker 2>inbox daily from federal employees for sending me memos and

0:39:00.560 --> 0:39:03.400
<v Speaker 2>any information that I cover as well. So that's about

0:39:03.400 --> 0:39:05.719
<v Speaker 2>half the work. The other half the work is made

0:39:05.800 --> 0:39:08.360
<v Speaker 2>possible by legacy media, for sure, and.

0:39:08.239 --> 0:39:12.760
<v Speaker 1>By investigating and you know, investigative reporters who spend weeks,

0:39:12.800 --> 0:39:17.400
<v Speaker 1>if not months, digging in, you know, filing Foyer requests,

0:39:17.440 --> 0:39:18.480
<v Speaker 1>et cetera, et cetera.

0:39:19.239 --> 0:39:22.200
<v Speaker 2>One hundred percent, and I will I would never degrade

0:39:22.320 --> 0:39:24.600
<v Speaker 2>the work that they're doing, especially the work that local

0:39:24.680 --> 0:39:27.520
<v Speaker 2>journalists are doing. The ABC affiliates, the NBC affiliates on

0:39:27.560 --> 0:39:29.799
<v Speaker 2>the ground, and I have top time and time again

0:39:29.840 --> 0:39:31.840
<v Speaker 2>about the amazing work that they do and how they

0:39:31.920 --> 0:39:34.360
<v Speaker 2>need to be uplifted. I think where my gripe with

0:39:34.440 --> 0:39:37.480
<v Speaker 2>legacy media is I guess maybe framed wrong in the

0:39:37.520 --> 0:39:41.200
<v Speaker 2>sense of my gripe is with cable news media and

0:39:41.239 --> 0:39:43.520
<v Speaker 2>the hosts that are on it and the way news

0:39:43.520 --> 0:39:47.680
<v Speaker 2>is portrayed on television rather than an individual reporter. I

0:39:47.680 --> 0:39:50.960
<v Speaker 2>think the Washington Post has some brilliant reporters, but I

0:39:51.000 --> 0:39:53.360
<v Speaker 2>have a problem with the Posts as a brand because

0:39:53.360 --> 0:39:56.040
<v Speaker 2>of the influence that its owner has. Right, So I

0:39:56.120 --> 0:39:58.360
<v Speaker 2>have I have a problem with kind of the overall

0:39:58.880 --> 0:40:01.720
<v Speaker 2>media apparatus rather than any individual reporter.

0:40:02.000 --> 0:40:02.200
<v Speaker 3>Right.

0:40:02.280 --> 0:40:05.160
<v Speaker 1>And what is your beef, particularly with cable news. Is

0:40:05.200 --> 0:40:11.280
<v Speaker 1>it that it's the way information is framed or putting context?

0:40:11.320 --> 0:40:13.800
<v Speaker 1>And do you have a beef with all cable news

0:40:14.040 --> 0:40:16.680
<v Speaker 1>or do you have a beef primarily with Fox News?

0:40:17.320 --> 0:40:21.680
<v Speaker 2>So my primary beef comes from CNNMSNBC and Fox those

0:40:21.760 --> 0:40:25.080
<v Speaker 2>kind of the big three in a way not necessarily

0:40:25.120 --> 0:40:27.120
<v Speaker 2>like there's some great like David Muher does great work,

0:40:27.160 --> 0:40:30.360
<v Speaker 2>Like there's some really good kind of cable news hosts.

0:40:30.400 --> 0:40:33.560
<v Speaker 2>But I think when I'm watching CNN at the ten

0:40:33.600 --> 0:40:37.040
<v Speaker 2>pm hour and it's Abby Phillips Show. And Abby is great.

0:40:37.040 --> 0:40:39.960
<v Speaker 2>I think she's amazing. But when it's a roundtable discussion

0:40:40.440 --> 0:40:44.120
<v Speaker 2>of politics rather than just giving me what I need

0:40:44.160 --> 0:40:47.120
<v Speaker 2>to know from the day, that to me upsets me

0:40:47.239 --> 0:40:50.400
<v Speaker 2>because it's no longer fact based journalism. It's an opinion

0:40:50.480 --> 0:40:53.760
<v Speaker 2>talk show hosts. It's the view, but just at ten pm.

0:40:54.200 --> 0:40:57.640
<v Speaker 2>And I'm not watching CNN at ten pm personally to

0:40:57.680 --> 0:41:01.560
<v Speaker 2>get opinions from Scott Jennings or on the left. I'm

0:41:01.760 --> 0:41:04.840
<v Speaker 2>watching CNNA ten pm to get information about what I

0:41:04.880 --> 0:41:07.440
<v Speaker 2>missed during the day, and I just don't get that anymore.

0:41:07.719 --> 0:41:10.720
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and what about Fox the way they frame everything?

0:41:10.760 --> 0:41:15.040
<v Speaker 1>I mean, to me, it's fascinating to watch MSNBC. And

0:41:15.080 --> 0:41:17.640
<v Speaker 1>by the way, a very small audience is watching all

0:41:17.680 --> 0:41:21.560
<v Speaker 1>of these cable news networks at this point. But I'd

0:41:21.640 --> 0:41:25.680
<v Speaker 1>like to see how a story's framed by MSNBC versus Fox.

0:41:25.760 --> 0:41:28.800
<v Speaker 1>Now I'm more aligned with the way MSNBC is framing

0:41:28.840 --> 0:41:32.200
<v Speaker 1>the story. But Fox, I remember when the stock market

0:41:32.239 --> 0:41:35.080
<v Speaker 1>was crashing, they took down the ticker. You don't hear

0:41:35.239 --> 0:41:38.040
<v Speaker 1>about a lot of things that Donald Trump is doing

0:41:38.560 --> 0:41:41.480
<v Speaker 1>on Fox News, and if you do, it's framed in

0:41:41.840 --> 0:41:45.560
<v Speaker 1>a very positive way and not sort of a holistic

0:41:45.680 --> 0:41:48.120
<v Speaker 1>look at whatever action has been taken.

0:41:48.760 --> 0:41:50.440
<v Speaker 2>Oh for sure. I mean I think I remember when

0:41:50.640 --> 0:41:54.000
<v Speaker 2>the birthright Citizenship Executive Order was struck down the first time.

0:41:54.320 --> 0:41:56.880
<v Speaker 2>Instead of talking about that, they were talking about plastic

0:41:56.920 --> 0:42:00.120
<v Speaker 2>straws for fifteen minutes. And I was watching that and

0:42:00.160 --> 0:42:03.000
<v Speaker 2>I was like, this is just you're doing a disservice

0:42:03.160 --> 0:42:05.360
<v Speaker 2>to the people that are watching your channel. Just be

0:42:05.480 --> 0:42:08.000
<v Speaker 2>honest with what's happening in our country and what the

0:42:08.040 --> 0:42:09.960
<v Speaker 2>courts are saying and what the president is doing, and

0:42:10.040 --> 0:42:12.480
<v Speaker 2>let them decide for themselves whether or not they agree

0:42:12.520 --> 0:42:13.040
<v Speaker 2>with it or not.

0:42:13.360 --> 0:42:16.360
<v Speaker 1>Well, their motto used to be, we report, you decide,

0:42:17.040 --> 0:42:20.600
<v Speaker 1>but I don't think I always say it's like we retort,

0:42:21.360 --> 0:42:23.040
<v Speaker 1>we deride.

0:42:23.239 --> 0:42:26.399
<v Speaker 2>No, you're you're right. I mean, it's bad how they've

0:42:26.440 --> 0:42:28.040
<v Speaker 2>kind of framed it. And I mean, I don't think

0:42:28.120 --> 0:42:30.279
<v Speaker 2>at least anymore they pretend to be, at least at

0:42:30.400 --> 0:42:32.560
<v Speaker 2>night with like the Hannities of the World and Laura

0:42:32.719 --> 0:42:34.600
<v Speaker 2>Ingram I don't think they pretend to be a new

0:42:34.680 --> 0:42:36.440
<v Speaker 2>show as much as they pretend to be kind.

0:42:36.280 --> 0:42:38.120
<v Speaker 3>Of they're a talk radio on TV.

0:42:38.280 --> 0:42:40.280
<v Speaker 2>Really, that's really what it is at this point.

0:42:40.440 --> 0:42:42.560
<v Speaker 3>Does your family still watch Fox News?

0:42:42.840 --> 0:42:45.360
<v Speaker 2>No, they do not, not from what I'm aware of.

0:42:45.600 --> 0:42:47.200
<v Speaker 2>I haven't been down there in a little while, but

0:42:47.360 --> 0:42:47.759
<v Speaker 2>probably not.

0:42:48.040 --> 0:42:50.000
<v Speaker 1>Let me ask you a little bit about your process.

0:42:50.040 --> 0:42:53.080
<v Speaker 1>You post twelve to fifteen tiktoks a day, Aaron, you

0:42:53.160 --> 0:42:55.960
<v Speaker 1>post five to six times a day on substack. How

0:42:56.040 --> 0:42:58.920
<v Speaker 1>much time are you spending on social media and following

0:42:58.920 --> 0:43:01.319
<v Speaker 1>the news every day? And how do you unplug? If ever?

0:43:02.040 --> 0:43:05.239
<v Speaker 2>I don't unplug work life balance doesn't exist for me.

0:43:05.920 --> 0:43:08.120
<v Speaker 2>I'm twenty six years old. I feel like I can

0:43:08.160 --> 0:43:10.400
<v Speaker 2>work as much as I can until I start having kids,

0:43:10.400 --> 0:43:12.200
<v Speaker 2>and then I'll have to slow down a little bit.

0:43:12.719 --> 0:43:17.080
<v Speaker 2>I am online, truthfully all the time, unless it's Friday

0:43:17.160 --> 0:43:19.600
<v Speaker 2>nights for Shabbat, I try to unplug and kind of

0:43:19.600 --> 0:43:22.239
<v Speaker 2>be off my phone for several hours if possible, But

0:43:22.360 --> 0:43:25.359
<v Speaker 2>otherwise I'm monitoring at twenty four to seven. Like I said,

0:43:25.360 --> 0:43:27.719
<v Speaker 2>I have notifications on for every time a member of

0:43:27.760 --> 0:43:30.680
<v Speaker 2>Congress tweets, so have I wake up to two thousand

0:43:30.680 --> 0:43:33.400
<v Speaker 2>notifications every morning that I score grew to see what

0:43:33.440 --> 0:43:35.920
<v Speaker 2>I'm like missing, So I'm always online.

0:43:36.480 --> 0:43:39.120
<v Speaker 1>I want to ask you about Ukraine because of your

0:43:39.120 --> 0:43:42.280
<v Speaker 1>family connections there. I mean, there's so many news events

0:43:42.360 --> 0:43:44.120
<v Speaker 1>I'd like to talk to you about, but let me

0:43:44.200 --> 0:43:47.120
<v Speaker 1>just do run down a few right now. Do you

0:43:47.160 --> 0:43:52.360
<v Speaker 1>think people understand how strange it is that Donald Trump

0:43:52.719 --> 0:43:57.160
<v Speaker 1>did a complete about face on behalf of the United

0:43:57.200 --> 0:44:01.360
<v Speaker 1>States of America when it comes to support swarding Ukraine

0:44:01.880 --> 0:44:06.440
<v Speaker 1>versus Vladimir Putin? And how do you, as someone with

0:44:06.560 --> 0:44:09.160
<v Speaker 1>such close ties, how do you make sense of it?

0:44:10.480 --> 0:44:12.960
<v Speaker 2>I don't. I mean, I don't want to speculate, right like,

0:44:13.000 --> 0:44:15.200
<v Speaker 2>there are so many people out there speculating that Trump

0:44:15.239 --> 0:44:17.960
<v Speaker 2>is in Putin's pocket. There was even like a TikTok

0:44:18.000 --> 0:44:22.800
<v Speaker 2>trend people talking about how Trump was being a Kremlin agent,

0:44:22.840 --> 0:44:25.759
<v Speaker 2>and I think all that's BS. Like, I don't buy

0:44:25.760 --> 0:44:28.800
<v Speaker 2>into the conspiracy theories or the speculation. I think truth

0:44:28.880 --> 0:44:31.480
<v Speaker 2>be told. I don't know that this is as much

0:44:31.520 --> 0:44:34.279
<v Speaker 2>Trump as it is about Vance and those around him,

0:44:34.280 --> 0:44:37.600
<v Speaker 2>and this kind of America first mentality of trying to

0:44:37.640 --> 0:44:42.359
<v Speaker 2>abandon anyone overseas. It's not just Ukraine, right, We're seeing

0:44:42.400 --> 0:44:45.440
<v Speaker 2>them pull foreign aid from countries across the world, and

0:44:45.640 --> 0:44:49.160
<v Speaker 2>America's soft power has been weakened tremendously.

0:44:48.480 --> 0:44:51.320
<v Speaker 3>Since the jsaid right exactly.

0:44:51.400 --> 0:44:53.839
<v Speaker 2>So I don't know that it's just Ukraine. I think

0:44:53.920 --> 0:44:56.359
<v Speaker 2>Ukraine is just a hot button issue because it's the

0:44:56.440 --> 0:45:01.000
<v Speaker 2>war where American dollars have been spent on. But I

0:45:01.000 --> 0:45:04.080
<v Speaker 2>don't know. I don't know how to reconcile it. It's

0:45:04.200 --> 0:45:08.719
<v Speaker 2>very scary. And maybe, I mean, listen, maybe Trump is

0:45:08.719 --> 0:45:11.240
<v Speaker 2>coming around to the idea that Putin doesn't want peace.

0:45:11.280 --> 0:45:13.160
<v Speaker 2>He's been Putin crazy lately and.

0:45:13.120 --> 0:45:18.480
<v Speaker 1>Saying now he's actually acting like a petulant, jilted teenager

0:45:18.600 --> 0:45:23.440
<v Speaker 1>on truth social talking about Putin now and how disappointed

0:45:23.520 --> 0:45:27.120
<v Speaker 1>he is and how he's crazy. But it strikes me

0:45:27.160 --> 0:45:29.960
<v Speaker 1>as like just reeking of naivete.

0:45:30.600 --> 0:45:32.600
<v Speaker 2>It is, I mean it is. I think really Trump

0:45:32.640 --> 0:45:36.000
<v Speaker 2>tried to portray himself as someone who could come in

0:45:36.040 --> 0:45:38.680
<v Speaker 2>as a deal maker and really end this war, and

0:45:38.800 --> 0:45:40.640
<v Speaker 2>Joe Biden couldn't do it. So Trump is going to

0:45:40.719 --> 0:45:43.160
<v Speaker 2>do it. And I think with each passing day he

0:45:43.200 --> 0:45:46.680
<v Speaker 2>gets more and more frustrated that he's realizing, hey, one

0:45:46.719 --> 0:45:48.759
<v Speaker 2>side to this doesn't actually want to end the.

0:45:48.719 --> 0:45:52.120
<v Speaker 1>War, and maybe foreign policy is a little more complicated

0:45:52.120 --> 0:45:56.960
<v Speaker 1>than he thought. Maybe maybe let me ask you about

0:45:57.000 --> 0:46:00.799
<v Speaker 1>the big beautiful bill. I know that I believe you

0:46:01.040 --> 0:46:03.319
<v Speaker 1>or somebody I read so much to Aaron, I kind

0:46:03.360 --> 0:46:06.520
<v Speaker 1>of get mixed up at some point. But someone said,

0:46:06.640 --> 0:46:08.560
<v Speaker 1>I think maybe you did how it was going to

0:46:08.600 --> 0:46:13.680
<v Speaker 1>basically turbo charge income inequality in this country, exacerbate it

0:46:13.760 --> 0:46:16.200
<v Speaker 1>as never before. Maybe that was someone else, was that

0:46:16.320 --> 0:46:19.880
<v Speaker 1>you erin I may have said something. Anyway, do you

0:46:19.880 --> 0:46:23.920
<v Speaker 1>think people understand truly what is in this bill and

0:46:24.560 --> 0:46:27.799
<v Speaker 1>how will impact the least fortunate Americans?

0:46:28.719 --> 0:46:30.400
<v Speaker 2>No, not at all, I mean, and I think the

0:46:30.440 --> 0:46:34.200
<v Speaker 2>reason why is because the messaging just isn't there. I mean,

0:46:34.560 --> 0:46:36.799
<v Speaker 2>I could say the Congressional Budget Office, the non part

0:46:36.840 --> 0:46:39.200
<v Speaker 2>is in Congressional Budget Office says the bottom ten percent

0:46:39.200 --> 0:46:41.480
<v Speaker 2>will suffer the most, in the top ten percent will

0:46:41.520 --> 0:46:44.000
<v Speaker 2>suffer the least, or will benefit the most. But ultimately,

0:46:44.400 --> 0:46:47.640
<v Speaker 2>this bill is hundreds of pages in length. Your average

0:46:47.680 --> 0:46:50.440
<v Speaker 2>American is not reading it. Your average American doesn't know

0:46:50.440 --> 0:46:52.279
<v Speaker 2>that on page five hundred and sixty two there's a

0:46:52.320 --> 0:46:55.840
<v Speaker 2>paragraph that limits a federal court's ability to enforce contemp

0:46:55.840 --> 0:47:00.719
<v Speaker 2>proceedings against the administration. Right like the average doesn't really

0:47:00.800 --> 0:47:04.960
<v Speaker 2>understand what Medicaid cuts mean, what work requirements for Medicaid

0:47:05.120 --> 0:47:08.160
<v Speaker 2>are and how that can be implemented in states around

0:47:08.160 --> 0:47:11.080
<v Speaker 2>the country. So the impacts of it won't be felt,

0:47:11.239 --> 0:47:14.960
<v Speaker 2>truthfully for a while, for several years. Maybe that's what

0:47:15.040 --> 0:47:18.279
<v Speaker 2>they want because by that point, if you look at

0:47:18.280 --> 0:47:20.560
<v Speaker 2>the bill, many of the cuts and the work requirements

0:47:20.560 --> 0:47:24.040
<v Speaker 2>don't start until after the midterm election, So the impacts

0:47:24.080 --> 0:47:26.440
<v Speaker 2>really won't be felt for a lot of people until

0:47:26.480 --> 0:47:30.960
<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty seven, and by then Republicans could run on

0:47:31.000 --> 0:47:32.720
<v Speaker 2>the fact that they just cut a bunch of taxes

0:47:32.760 --> 0:47:35.560
<v Speaker 2>and look, Medicaid's still fine, everything's fine. And then January first,

0:47:35.600 --> 0:47:39.040
<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty seven comes around and thirteen point seven million

0:47:39.040 --> 0:47:40.200
<v Speaker 2>Americans are without healthcare.

0:47:40.280 --> 0:47:43.920
<v Speaker 1>So what do you think of the fact that RFK,

0:47:44.160 --> 0:47:49.200
<v Speaker 1>Junior and HHS and the CDC and basically are saying

0:47:49.400 --> 0:47:52.799
<v Speaker 1>that pregnant women and children no longer need to get

0:47:52.800 --> 0:47:57.240
<v Speaker 1>the COVID vaccine. I mean, that has been so politicized,

0:47:57.560 --> 0:48:01.200
<v Speaker 1>and medical news was never sized in this way.

0:48:01.680 --> 0:48:03.960
<v Speaker 2>It's unfortunate. I mean, here's the thing. If that is

0:48:04.000 --> 0:48:06.960
<v Speaker 2>what doctors believe, and if that's what the research suggests,

0:48:07.000 --> 0:48:09.920
<v Speaker 2>then great, go forward with it. Remove it off the

0:48:09.960 --> 0:48:13.359
<v Speaker 2>communization schedule for pregnant women and healthy children. But it's

0:48:13.360 --> 0:48:16.880
<v Speaker 2>gotten to the point where anything RFK Junior says is

0:48:17.160 --> 0:48:21.040
<v Speaker 2>distrusted by a majority of the American public because of

0:48:21.080 --> 0:48:23.800
<v Speaker 2>the things that he had said in the past about

0:48:23.800 --> 0:48:28.280
<v Speaker 2>this vaccine. So it's an unfortunate situation where medical decisions

0:48:28.280 --> 0:48:31.640
<v Speaker 2>are now politicized, where the Secretary of Health and Human Services.

0:48:32.719 --> 0:48:36.280
<v Speaker 2>If you ask the average American who was the HHS

0:48:36.320 --> 0:48:39.480
<v Speaker 2>secretary under Biden or under Obama or even under Trump won,

0:48:39.960 --> 0:48:42.400
<v Speaker 2>no one would know. Maybe one percent of one percent

0:48:42.400 --> 0:48:45.239
<v Speaker 2>would know. A lot of people know who RFK Junior is.

0:48:45.280 --> 0:48:54.000
<v Speaker 2>And that's a problem.

0:48:54.200 --> 0:48:56.279
<v Speaker 1>If you want to get smarter every morning with a

0:48:56.320 --> 0:48:59.560
<v Speaker 1>breakdown of the news and fascinating takes on health and

0:48:59.600 --> 0:49:03.000
<v Speaker 1>wellness and pop culture, sign up for our daily newsletter,

0:49:03.080 --> 0:49:15.040
<v Speaker 1>Wake Up Call by going to Katiecuric dot com.

0:49:15.080 --> 0:49:16.479
<v Speaker 3>Aaron, how do you book guests?

0:49:16.560 --> 0:49:19.560
<v Speaker 1>Because you recently napped an interview with Corey Booker after

0:49:19.600 --> 0:49:23.040
<v Speaker 1>his twenty five hour filibuster. Do you just reach out

0:49:23.040 --> 0:49:25.840
<v Speaker 1>to their teams? Do they know who you are? You know,

0:49:25.960 --> 0:49:28.759
<v Speaker 1>I'm lucky because I've been doing this for a long time,

0:49:28.800 --> 0:49:31.799
<v Speaker 1>a lot longer than you have, and so I was

0:49:31.880 --> 0:49:36.040
<v Speaker 1>able to establish a name for myself before the media

0:49:36.120 --> 0:49:39.960
<v Speaker 1>landscape was so fragmented. But for you, you're relatively new

0:49:40.000 --> 0:49:41.960
<v Speaker 1>to the game. How hard is it for you to

0:49:42.000 --> 0:49:44.640
<v Speaker 1>secure these interviews with people like Corey Booker.

0:49:45.440 --> 0:49:49.320
<v Speaker 2>It's hard, but I really hustle. I mean, I DM people,

0:49:49.440 --> 0:49:52.120
<v Speaker 2>I cold email them, I cold text them, I try

0:49:52.160 --> 0:49:55.360
<v Speaker 2>to get information wherever I can people's contact information, and

0:49:55.400 --> 0:49:59.239
<v Speaker 2>I just kind of I bug them indeceptively until they

0:49:59.280 --> 0:49:59.799
<v Speaker 2>say yes.

0:50:00.280 --> 0:50:02.560
<v Speaker 1>And I'm sure now that they know about your reach,

0:50:02.719 --> 0:50:05.120
<v Speaker 1>the fact that you are the number one news and

0:50:05.200 --> 0:50:08.600
<v Speaker 1>politics substack in the world, and I've just joined substack,

0:50:08.719 --> 0:50:11.359
<v Speaker 1>so we'll have to do some conversations like that on

0:50:11.400 --> 0:50:14.800
<v Speaker 1>that platform. But you know they must be like, oh, yeah,

0:50:14.880 --> 0:50:17.799
<v Speaker 1>I know Aaron Parness. I'd be happy to talk to him.

0:50:17.880 --> 0:50:21.680
<v Speaker 1>And you're reaching this audience of much younger voters who

0:50:21.680 --> 0:50:24.480
<v Speaker 1>are really turned off by a lot of other news sources.

0:50:24.960 --> 0:50:26.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, for sure. And I think it's gotten to the

0:50:26.640 --> 0:50:29.880
<v Speaker 2>point where, like I now have a personal relationship with

0:50:29.920 --> 0:50:32.040
<v Speaker 2>like senat or a book like you build relationships with

0:50:32.080 --> 0:50:34.919
<v Speaker 2>not just their staff, but they're the member themselves as well.

0:50:34.960 --> 0:50:37.560
<v Speaker 2>When you speak to them on numerous occasions and you

0:50:37.640 --> 0:50:40.319
<v Speaker 2>talk them off the record and on the record, and

0:50:40.360 --> 0:50:43.000
<v Speaker 2>you kind of just develop those relationships and it's it's

0:50:43.000 --> 0:50:45.359
<v Speaker 2>been great. I mean now I get messages every day

0:50:45.400 --> 0:50:46.600
<v Speaker 2>from members wanting to come on.

0:50:46.840 --> 0:50:50.320
<v Speaker 1>Oh that's well, they're calling you instead of you reaching

0:50:50.360 --> 0:50:53.480
<v Speaker 1>out to them. That's a very enviable place to be.

0:50:54.360 --> 0:50:56.759
<v Speaker 1>I wanted to know, how do you make money eron

0:50:57.160 --> 0:51:00.560
<v Speaker 1>because you don't charge for any of your content And

0:51:00.920 --> 0:51:04.840
<v Speaker 1>my parents always told me it was impolite to discuss

0:51:04.920 --> 0:51:07.360
<v Speaker 1>money with people, But how do you earn a living?

0:51:07.520 --> 0:51:10.520
<v Speaker 2>Erin? So I don't charge for any of the content,

0:51:10.560 --> 0:51:13.080
<v Speaker 2>but I earn a full time living from people who

0:51:13.200 --> 0:51:15.799
<v Speaker 2>just want to become paid subscribers and support the work

0:51:15.880 --> 0:51:18.640
<v Speaker 2>even though it's all free. So make a complete, full

0:51:18.640 --> 0:51:22.120
<v Speaker 2>time living on Substack and also the platform TikTok YouTube.

0:51:22.360 --> 0:51:26.080
<v Speaker 2>The platforms themselves pay out through creativity funds that they

0:51:26.200 --> 0:51:28.480
<v Speaker 2>build out for creators, so they pay out through that

0:51:28.520 --> 0:51:31.360
<v Speaker 2>as well, and that's kind of how I make a living.

0:51:31.400 --> 0:51:34.560
<v Speaker 2>But people are willing to pay for even free news

0:51:34.640 --> 0:51:36.959
<v Speaker 2>because they support me and the work that I'm doing.

0:51:37.120 --> 0:51:37.720
<v Speaker 3>That's great.

0:51:38.000 --> 0:51:38.160
<v Speaker 2>You know.

0:51:38.239 --> 0:51:40.120
<v Speaker 1>It seems to me that there's been a lot of

0:51:40.160 --> 0:51:43.319
<v Speaker 1>conversation about right wing media and how powerful it is.

0:51:43.920 --> 0:51:47.640
<v Speaker 1>I interviewed Michael Tomaski. He's the editor of The New Republic,

0:51:47.680 --> 0:51:50.560
<v Speaker 1>and he wrote in a piece quote, once upon a time,

0:51:50.640 --> 0:51:53.000
<v Speaker 1>the mainstream media was a beach ball and the right

0:51:53.040 --> 0:51:56.719
<v Speaker 1>wing media was a golf ball. Today, the mainstream media

0:51:56.880 --> 0:51:58.960
<v Speaker 1>is the size of a volleyball, and the right wing

0:51:59.040 --> 0:52:01.799
<v Speaker 1>media is the size of a basketball, which, in case

0:52:01.840 --> 0:52:05.040
<v Speaker 1>you're wondering, is bigger. Twenty twenty four was the year

0:52:05.040 --> 0:52:07.640
<v Speaker 1>in which it became obvious that the right wing media

0:52:07.680 --> 0:52:10.920
<v Speaker 1>has more power than the mainstream media. It's not just

0:52:11.000 --> 0:52:14.160
<v Speaker 1>that it's bigger, it's that it speaks with one voice,

0:52:14.520 --> 0:52:17.759
<v Speaker 1>and that voice says Democrats and liberals are treason as

0:52:17.760 --> 0:52:22.000
<v Speaker 1>elitists who hate you, and Republicans and conservatives love God

0:52:22.040 --> 0:52:24.920
<v Speaker 1>and country and are your last line of defense against

0:52:24.920 --> 0:52:28.560
<v Speaker 1>your son coming home from school as your daughter. Why

0:52:28.600 --> 0:52:32.279
<v Speaker 1>do you think the right wing media has been so effective?

0:52:32.719 --> 0:52:36.960
<v Speaker 1>And do you see this surge of media on the

0:52:37.040 --> 0:52:42.280
<v Speaker 1>other side that is starting slowly but surely to counter

0:52:42.800 --> 0:52:47.000
<v Speaker 1>some of the messaging right wing media is spewing on

0:52:47.080 --> 0:52:50.120
<v Speaker 1>a regular daily, if not minute by minute basis.

0:52:50.680 --> 0:52:52.759
<v Speaker 2>Well, I think to the first point is because they

0:52:52.800 --> 0:52:54.959
<v Speaker 2>got it right, like they know how to do. They

0:52:55.040 --> 0:52:56.719
<v Speaker 2>know how to play the game right. So you'll have

0:52:57.000 --> 0:52:59.640
<v Speaker 2>someone will put out a tweet saying that mister Potato

0:52:59.760 --> 0:53:03.400
<v Speaker 2>has is actually transgender. That'll be the tweet that comes out.

0:53:03.560 --> 0:53:05.799
<v Speaker 2>It'll get blown up on Twitter because Elon musk Quote

0:53:05.800 --> 0:53:09.080
<v Speaker 2>tweets it. Then we'll Chamberlain on Fox News. We'll feature

0:53:09.120 --> 0:53:12.160
<v Speaker 2>it during the day, then Laura Ingram and Sean Hannity

0:53:12.160 --> 0:53:13.840
<v Speaker 2>will talk about it at night. Then it'll be on

0:53:13.880 --> 0:53:16.759
<v Speaker 2>Ben Shapiro's podcast and Megan Kelly's podcast the next day.

0:53:16.960 --> 0:53:19.879
<v Speaker 2>They will talk about the same talking point across whether

0:53:19.920 --> 0:53:22.839
<v Speaker 2>you are one follower or ten million followers, and they'll

0:53:22.880 --> 0:53:24.759
<v Speaker 2>beat it as much as they can do.

0:53:24.800 --> 0:53:27.840
<v Speaker 1>They have this big editorial god who's sending them like

0:53:27.960 --> 0:53:31.680
<v Speaker 1>talking points every day because Roger Ales used to do

0:53:31.800 --> 0:53:34.399
<v Speaker 1>that at Fox News and they probably still do.

0:53:35.080 --> 0:53:37.520
<v Speaker 2>Probably, I mean, but they are so coordinated when it

0:53:37.520 --> 0:53:39.479
<v Speaker 2>comes to messaging. If they want to talk about Hunter

0:53:39.520 --> 0:53:42.840
<v Speaker 2>Biden's laptop, that's all you'll hear for days from everyone.

0:53:43.280 --> 0:53:45.239
<v Speaker 2>And I think that's where they get it right. As

0:53:45.239 --> 0:53:47.520
<v Speaker 2>far as whether it's kind of building on the left,

0:53:48.400 --> 0:53:50.920
<v Speaker 2>it isn't it isn't right. I think that there are

0:53:50.960 --> 0:53:55.399
<v Speaker 2>definitely media kind of companies and media personalities that might

0:53:55.440 --> 0:53:57.680
<v Speaker 2>as touched, for example, that are really doing great work

0:53:57.680 --> 0:54:00.880
<v Speaker 2>on the left and they are building something really big there,

0:54:01.200 --> 0:54:04.480
<v Speaker 2>But outside of them, I think where the left gets

0:54:04.520 --> 0:54:07.160
<v Speaker 2>it wrong is that they're just looking to replicate what

0:54:07.200 --> 0:54:11.040
<v Speaker 2>the right does. But you can't do that because the

0:54:11.040 --> 0:54:14.120
<v Speaker 2>messaging isn't the same. Because on the left, if you

0:54:14.160 --> 0:54:18.000
<v Speaker 2>say talk about reproductive rights, and everyone talks about reproductive rights,

0:54:18.080 --> 0:54:19.840
<v Speaker 2>you're not going to get everyone to talk about that.

0:54:19.960 --> 0:54:21.759
<v Speaker 2>Someone's going to talk about climates, someone's going to talk

0:54:21.760 --> 0:54:25.000
<v Speaker 2>about small businesses, someone's going to talk about like criminal justice.

0:54:25.040 --> 0:54:27.360
<v Speaker 2>You're going to be all over the place. And until

0:54:27.360 --> 0:54:30.400
<v Speaker 2>you fix messaging, it doesn't matter whether you have one

0:54:30.480 --> 0:54:33.960
<v Speaker 2>hundred million followers or a million followers or one follower,

0:54:34.200 --> 0:54:36.279
<v Speaker 2>you're just not going to get anything across. So they

0:54:36.280 --> 0:54:39.239
<v Speaker 2>are building I just think that they may be building it.

0:54:39.200 --> 0:54:43.239
<v Speaker 1>Wrong, building it wrong because they are not sticking to

0:54:43.320 --> 0:54:44.319
<v Speaker 1>one message.

0:54:45.440 --> 0:54:49.800
<v Speaker 2>It's about messaging because they don't have a good message.

0:54:49.840 --> 0:54:51.840
<v Speaker 2>Not necessarily sticking to one message, they don't have a

0:54:51.880 --> 0:54:54.399
<v Speaker 2>good message that resonates with voters right now, So.

0:54:54.360 --> 0:54:55.560
<v Speaker 3>What should their message be.

0:54:57.800 --> 0:55:01.480
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. I mean, I am not in the

0:55:01.760 --> 0:55:05.080
<v Speaker 2>position yeah make that decision.

0:55:04.800 --> 0:55:06.960
<v Speaker 1>That's above your pay grade. Well we don't know that,

0:55:07.160 --> 0:55:09.239
<v Speaker 1>but it is above.

0:55:08.920 --> 0:55:13.439
<v Speaker 2>My pay grade. And I think that where I tell everyone,

0:55:13.520 --> 0:55:16.799
<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty four was not a bloodbath. It was not

0:55:17.400 --> 0:55:19.759
<v Speaker 2>an election landslide the way some on the right had

0:55:19.760 --> 0:55:21.279
<v Speaker 2>painted it out to be. It was two hundred and

0:55:21.320 --> 0:55:23.880
<v Speaker 2>ten thousand votes in three swing states. That was the election,

0:55:24.600 --> 0:55:27.600
<v Speaker 2>And ultimately, if the election were held a month later,

0:55:28.560 --> 0:55:31.680
<v Speaker 2>it could have swum. If election were held two months earlier,

0:55:31.920 --> 0:55:34.120
<v Speaker 2>it could have swam. I don't know. And I think

0:55:34.200 --> 0:55:36.960
<v Speaker 2>to say that there is such a disparity between the

0:55:37.040 --> 0:55:39.839
<v Speaker 2>right and the left right now in America, it's not

0:55:40.080 --> 0:55:41.280
<v Speaker 2>fully accurate.

0:55:41.719 --> 0:55:44.600
<v Speaker 1>It just as there's sort of this massive swath of

0:55:44.640 --> 0:55:46.520
<v Speaker 1>people in the middle too.

0:55:46.680 --> 0:55:49.000
<v Speaker 2>And there are a lot of young people who we

0:55:49.040 --> 0:55:51.160
<v Speaker 2>need the left needs to get better at talking.

0:55:50.920 --> 0:55:54.800
<v Speaker 1>To, and also people need to help them understand the issues.

0:55:54.880 --> 0:55:57.239
<v Speaker 1>Someone wrote in I know the rage gets clicks, but

0:55:57.280 --> 0:55:59.959
<v Speaker 1>I'd like to see the Dems move forward with the plan.

0:56:00.920 --> 0:56:04.160
<v Speaker 1>You know, we're talking about sort of progressive media, but

0:56:04.200 --> 0:56:06.799
<v Speaker 1>what about the Democratic Party in general? I mean, I

0:56:06.840 --> 0:56:09.080
<v Speaker 1>know you're not a Democratic strategist, and I think it's

0:56:09.120 --> 0:56:13.160
<v Speaker 1>important to delineate what you do and what sort of

0:56:13.360 --> 0:56:17.040
<v Speaker 1>people who are coming up with, you know, talking points

0:56:17.120 --> 0:56:19.800
<v Speaker 1>and sort of the ethos and the future ethos of

0:56:19.840 --> 0:56:20.840
<v Speaker 1>the Democratic Party.

0:56:20.920 --> 0:56:22.640
<v Speaker 3>But what would you like.

0:56:22.719 --> 0:56:26.239
<v Speaker 1>To see more of come from Democrats and not just

0:56:26.280 --> 0:56:27.439
<v Speaker 1>the people covering them.

0:56:28.000 --> 0:56:29.880
<v Speaker 2>Well, I'd like there to be a leader, right Like

0:56:29.920 --> 0:56:33.360
<v Speaker 2>I'd like the Democrats to find a leader to unify around.

0:56:33.480 --> 0:56:36.200
<v Speaker 2>That's number one. And whether that's someone like Pete Budhjed

0:56:36.320 --> 0:56:38.719
<v Speaker 2>or Hakeem Jeffries, whoever it is, I'd like to them

0:56:38.800 --> 0:56:41.680
<v Speaker 2>to find someone who has that voice that speaks for

0:56:41.719 --> 0:56:44.640
<v Speaker 2>the party, because I don't think the DNC should ever

0:56:44.719 --> 0:56:46.839
<v Speaker 2>be speaking for the party. It's more of just kind

0:56:46.880 --> 0:56:50.960
<v Speaker 2>of inner party minutia that they decide. So I think

0:56:51.360 --> 0:56:54.200
<v Speaker 2>the Democratic Party needs a leader number one, and then

0:56:54.480 --> 0:56:56.960
<v Speaker 2>number two. I think once they have a leader, what

0:56:57.000 --> 0:56:59.920
<v Speaker 2>I would like to see is just like ordinated message

0:57:00.280 --> 0:57:04.560
<v Speaker 2>on a few main issues. We shouldn't be hitting Donald

0:57:04.600 --> 0:57:07.480
<v Speaker 2>Trump on everything he does, because he does so much

0:57:07.480 --> 0:57:10.320
<v Speaker 2>stuff that if you're just hitting him on everything, you're

0:57:10.320 --> 0:57:11.839
<v Speaker 2>never going to be able to put forth your own

0:57:12.080 --> 0:57:15.840
<v Speaker 2>message on things. And so I think we need to

0:57:15.840 --> 0:57:19.800
<v Speaker 2>find coordinated messaging on key issues, whether it be immigration

0:57:19.920 --> 0:57:22.680
<v Speaker 2>or form, reproductive justice, whatever it is. I mean, figure

0:57:22.720 --> 0:57:24.560
<v Speaker 2>it out, figure out what polls well, I don't care,

0:57:24.960 --> 0:57:27.439
<v Speaker 2>and just start hitting those and put forth your own

0:57:27.520 --> 0:57:30.600
<v Speaker 2>agenda rather than just this we don't like Trump agenda.

0:57:30.840 --> 0:57:33.320
<v Speaker 1>Well it's interesting because I do see a lot more

0:57:33.360 --> 0:57:36.640
<v Speaker 1>Democrats showing up on social media, talking straight to camera,

0:57:37.200 --> 0:57:39.680
<v Speaker 1>telling people what's going on. But it seems to me

0:57:39.840 --> 0:57:43.560
<v Speaker 1>there should be somebody who says, Okay, everybody today on

0:57:43.640 --> 0:57:48.320
<v Speaker 1>social media, let's focus on this so in aggregate they

0:57:48.360 --> 0:57:52.640
<v Speaker 1>could communicate their message and really get it across. Before

0:57:52.680 --> 0:57:54.760
<v Speaker 1>we go, I wanted to ask you about the MPR

0:57:54.880 --> 0:57:59.200
<v Speaker 1>lawsuit against Donald Trump and everything that good Lord is

0:57:59.200 --> 0:58:03.120
<v Speaker 1>happening at heart. You know, as a lawyer, how do

0:58:03.160 --> 0:58:06.240
<v Speaker 1>you see all of this kind of shaking out? And

0:58:06.320 --> 0:58:08.880
<v Speaker 1>do you think the judiciary is going to stand up

0:58:08.920 --> 0:58:11.880
<v Speaker 1>for NPR and Harvard And if they do, do you

0:58:11.880 --> 0:58:14.920
<v Speaker 1>think it will have any impact on what the administration does,

0:58:14.960 --> 0:58:17.880
<v Speaker 1>because so far they don't seem to be paying a

0:58:17.920 --> 0:58:19.480
<v Speaker 1>lot of attention to judges.

0:58:19.960 --> 0:58:22.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I do, I mean, I really do trust our judiciary.

0:58:22.160 --> 0:58:24.440
<v Speaker 2>I clerked for a federal judge who has confirmed one

0:58:24.520 --> 0:58:27.680
<v Speaker 2>hundred to zero. Back when federal judges were confirmed unanimously

0:58:28.200 --> 0:58:30.760
<v Speaker 2>and I saw the judiciary from the inside out, I

0:58:30.840 --> 0:58:33.160
<v Speaker 2>really do have a lot of faith in the judicial process.

0:58:33.280 --> 0:58:38.480
<v Speaker 2>It's slow, it's mainly focused on gridlock really and obstruction within,

0:58:38.560 --> 0:58:40.640
<v Speaker 2>but that's mainly what the system is meant to do

0:58:40.800 --> 0:58:43.120
<v Speaker 2>and meant to be, and it protects the American people.

0:58:43.120 --> 0:58:45.040
<v Speaker 2>And I think when it comes to NPR, when it

0:58:45.080 --> 0:58:46.880
<v Speaker 2>comes to Harvard, when it comes to these lawsuits, I

0:58:46.880 --> 0:58:50.280
<v Speaker 2>think the judiciary will rule in accordance with the law,

0:58:50.320 --> 0:58:53.240
<v Speaker 2>and yeah, well, Trump will win on some grounds in

0:58:53.280 --> 0:58:55.200
<v Speaker 2>some cases. I'm not saying he's going to lose every

0:58:55.240 --> 0:58:58.120
<v Speaker 2>single case, but they will uphold the law. And I

0:58:58.120 --> 0:59:00.760
<v Speaker 2>think that's ultimately what needs to happen. Trump is right

0:59:00.920 --> 0:59:04.000
<v Speaker 2>or whether he is wrong, the law needs to be upheld.

0:59:04.280 --> 0:59:08.280
<v Speaker 2>And if they uphold the law and Trump chooses not

0:59:08.400 --> 0:59:10.520
<v Speaker 2>to follow the law and play fast and loose with

0:59:10.600 --> 0:59:12.880
<v Speaker 2>the law, then I think where the new judiciary needs

0:59:12.880 --> 0:59:16.080
<v Speaker 2>to go is it needs to be more explicit. Donald Trump,

0:59:16.360 --> 0:59:19.840
<v Speaker 2>with this whole Abrago Garcia Supreme Court debacle, the Supreme

0:59:19.840 --> 0:59:22.439
<v Speaker 2>Court said you need to facilitate his return. They never

0:59:22.480 --> 0:59:25.720
<v Speaker 2>said you need to get Kilmore back. They were very

0:59:25.880 --> 0:59:30.040
<v Speaker 2>intentionally vague in the word choice of facilitate, because facilitate

0:59:30.080 --> 0:59:32.200
<v Speaker 2>could mean a number of things. And Trump is now saying,

0:59:32.240 --> 0:59:35.800
<v Speaker 2>you know what, I am facilitating it. I am maybe

0:59:36.160 --> 0:59:38.480
<v Speaker 2>we asked behind the scenes the government of l Salvador

0:59:38.600 --> 0:59:39.920
<v Speaker 2>to bring him back or whatever.

0:59:39.760 --> 0:59:42.280
<v Speaker 3>And they're refusing, you know, yeah.

0:59:42.240 --> 0:59:44.680
<v Speaker 2>Exactly that. But that is facilitating in his mind. And

0:59:45.080 --> 0:59:47.920
<v Speaker 2>by being intentionally vague, the last thing judges want to

0:59:47.960 --> 0:59:51.680
<v Speaker 2>do is make precedent. I've learned that, and so they

0:59:51.680 --> 0:59:54.960
<v Speaker 2>are intentionally vague to kind of allow for these legal maneuvers.

0:59:55.160 --> 0:59:57.240
<v Speaker 2>And I think the judiciary needs to become more explicit

0:59:57.320 --> 1:00:00.840
<v Speaker 2>in its rulings to prevent what happened with Killmore Brayogarcia

1:00:00.880 --> 1:00:03.720
<v Speaker 2>from happening to NPR or Harvard or any of these

1:00:03.720 --> 1:00:04.600
<v Speaker 2>other institutions.

1:00:05.120 --> 1:00:08.680
<v Speaker 1>Well, Aaron Parness, I have kept you over an hour

1:00:08.880 --> 1:00:10.720
<v Speaker 1>and you've got a lot of news to cover, so

1:00:10.720 --> 1:00:13.120
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to let you go. It's such a pleasure

1:00:13.200 --> 1:00:16.000
<v Speaker 1>to meet you, Erin. I really appreciate your time, and

1:00:16.080 --> 1:00:18.080
<v Speaker 1>keep up the good work, and thank you so so

1:00:18.240 --> 1:00:19.280
<v Speaker 1>much for talking with me.

1:00:19.840 --> 1:00:21.600
<v Speaker 2>Thank you so much for having me. This is amazing.

1:00:25.400 --> 1:00:28.640
<v Speaker 1>Thanks for listening everyone. If you have a question for me,

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<v Speaker 1>Katie Couric. You know I'm always on the go between

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